April 23, 2025 • 43 mins
Stepping into foster care or adoption without understanding trauma is like trying to navigate unfamiliar terrain without a map. That's why this conversation with Melissa Pemberton, a trauma-aware licensed therapist and parent coach with over 20 years of experience in child welfare, is absolutely essential listening for anyone caring for children from hard places.
Melissa shares her personal journey from being a teen mom with her own childhood trauma to becoming a powerful advocate for trauma-informed parenting approaches. She explains why traditional parenting methods often fail with children who have experienced early adversity—even those adopted at birth—and offers practical insights that transform how we understand challenging behaviors.
Whether you're already fostering or adopting, considering this path, or simply want to better support families in your community, this episode provides essential insights that will forever change how you view children's behaviors and your role in their healing journey. Download Melissa's free resource on regulating your nervous system and connect with her at mendingfamilieswa.com to continue learning these transformative approaches.
Melissa's Info:
www.instagram.com/mendingfamilieswa
FREEBIE for listeners - 6 Tips to Calm your Nervous System - https://mending-families.myflodesk.com/calm
OTHER RESOURCES Mentioned:
Get Nicole's Newsletter: https://nicoletbarlow.myflodesk.com/fosterparentwellnewsletter
Mending Families Podcast: https://www.mendingfamilieswa.com/mending-families-podcast
Empowered to Connect Podcast: https://empowered-to-connect-podcast.castos.com/
The Connected Child: https://a.co/d/h6Ddu1v
The Connected Parent: https://a.co/d/bl2Gwy9
Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors: https://a.co/d/hDQXcDQ
I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text!
Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real, candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:32):
joy.
I want you to, Nicole T Barlow,mom of six five through
(01:01):
adoption I'm a certifiedwellness coach and a parent
trainer.
I'm here to help you care foryourself while you care for your
kids, especially when you'reparenting in the hard places.
I hope you all had a beautifulEaster last week, whether it was
peaceful or chaotic or a mix ofboth.
I pray that it pointed you backto hope and renewal.
(01:22):
Today I've got a special guest,melissa Pemberton, joining me
for a conversation I think everyfoster and adoptive parent
needs to hear, even if you'rejust considering foster care or
adoption.
We are diving into some stepsto becoming trauma-informed and
why it's not just a buzzword butit is a game changer on this
(01:45):
parenting journey.
My guest, melissa, istrauma-aware licensed therapist,
a parent coach, a podcaster andthe owner of Mending Families.
She has over 20 years ofexperience working with families
in child welfare, from casemanagement to writing home
studies, to running a fostercare nonprofit, and she is
(02:06):
trained in a variety oftrauma-aware curricula.
I'm so excited for you to hearfrom her.
She is a wealth of knowledge.
Welcome to the podcast, melissa.
I'm so excited to have you ontoday, so tell us a little about
you and how you got into thefoster care adoption world?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, for sure.
So gosh, so much about me.
No, I'm like, where should Istart?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Do you want to hear about my childhood?
No, Sure Listen if it pertainsto it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, I mean it kind of does Like I had.
I had a rough childhood growingup, um, and found myself a teen
mom, um, and I had startedcollege and then dropped out of
college and when I went back Iwas going to be an elementary
teacher and went to school forthat, and then I took um a
developmental psychology classand it was in that class that I
(03:02):
was like wait, wait, wait, wait.
I don't want to be a teacher, Iwant to help kids who, like I,
was seeing a lot of like a lotof myself that like I didn't
realize I had things that wereso hard in my childhood and I
also was seeing, like I waspotentially like repeating
patterns with my daughter, andso that class was kind of
(03:24):
transforming for me.
I ended up going down the roadof social work and got my
master's in social work as asingle mama.
So you know, good job Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
That's hard.
I mean, that's no joke,honestly Like I was a single mom
for seven years and that is, Iwould have never gone back to
school at that time.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, well, and thank goodness, like my mom, we joked
a lot that my mom was basicallymy daughter's dad.
Okay, yeah yeah, yeah, she wasso supportive, but so went down
the route of social work andended up working for Child
Protective Services for a fewyears and that was kind of like,
okay, this is good.
(04:05):
But also like I'm seeing a lotof foster parents who just
aren't trauma informed and don'tget this, and so I kind of
decided to go the route of howcan I be some more supportive of
foster parents?
Um, and found myself working fora foster agency nonprofit
foster care agency in town andum, and that was great and it
(04:26):
was actually cool, cause I wasable to bring TBRI to that
agency and we required all ofour foster parents to take TBRI
training and we're just reallytrying to like wrap around the
trauma informed piece there.
Um, and then ultimately I justdecided three years ago that I
wanted to do my own thing and Iwanted to start my own business,
(04:47):
and so I started MendingFamilies in June of 22 with the
intention of just continuing toreally bring trauma-informed
practices to families, toindividuals, whether it's
through therapy, family therapy,parent coaching, um, my podcast
, like whatever it is, there'sjust um, we just know so much
(05:09):
more now about how traumaaffects the entire person and I
don't think that the stateagencies do a good job of really
preparing foster and adoptivefamilies for that.
So, um, just trying to fillthat gap, one person at a time.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
That is huge.
I mean honestly, like that is areally, really, really big deal
and really, really crucial forthe people that are going to be
doing this work to be equippedto do the work right.
Where do you feel like?
You first learned abouttrauma-informed practices or
(05:47):
whatever?
Was it in school?
How did you get tossed intothat world?
I think so many professionalsaren't informed in that kind of
stuff, and so how did you becomeaware of trauma-informed
practices aware oftrauma-informed practices, you
know, sadly, it was.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'm not going to say sadly, but it is kind of sad
that it took me this long.
It was 2016 and I went to theEmpowered to Connect conference,
but I don't think it's calledthat anymore.
It's called something else.
It's called Hope for theJourney.
Yes, so I went to that and thatwas the first time I had heard
of TBRI, and by that point, Ihad been parenting for 16 years
(06:30):
already, which is why I saysadly, because I feel like my
oldest daughter kind of got youknow, she didn't get the best of
me, but that was the first timeI heard about TBRI in a way, or
trauma-informed parenting, in away that really made sense and
really put a lot of the piecestogether as far as, like, what I
(06:52):
knew about attachment and whatI knew about, you know,
attachment, wounds and what Iknew about how the brain works
different.
It was like I knew all thesethings from my time working for
in the child welfare system, butI hadn't seen it all put
together in that way.
Um and so that was the firsttime, but prior to that, you
(07:14):
know, when I worked for CPS, Idon't think I realized that what
I saw missing wastrauma-informed care.
What I saw was foster parentswho were faith-based homes, and
they were the hardest fosterparents for us social workers to
work with.
They demanded more money, theyfelt like they were owed
(07:37):
something, they had the mostcomplaints.
They asked to have kids movedmore often, and so it was that
piece that I was like wait, ifwe're believers, we're
Christians, shouldn't we lovelike Jesus, loves Like what is
happening here?
But what I think I saw afterthe fact, when I look back right
, I think what I saw was theydidn't have the information,
(07:59):
they didn't understand trauma,they didn't understand that it
affects the whole child, whichthen, in turn, affects the whole
family, and that was the piecethat was missing.
So, to answer your question,consciously, 2016, but I think
that I saw that prior to um,prior to that, and I just didn't
(08:21):
have a name for it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Like it was, it was probablyeasier for you to attach to
those ideals, those pieces ofthe puzzle, when they all came
together, because you had seenevidence of that all the way all
along.
What drew you to thatconference in the first place?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Because I'm not really sure.
Oh, it was just that, that wasthe world I was in, and a friend
of mine who is a foster parent,she was going and so she.
So I was like, yeah, I mean, Ihave time, I can go, I can have
it be like my work day,basically, and so it was more
(09:04):
just that idea of as a socialworker I was wanting to continue
to uh, increase my knowledgearound how can we help these
kids that we're working with?
Um, and was very much in theworld of well cause.
I was a foster parent for ashort time too, when I was a
single mom, and then also myhusband and I fostered a teen
(09:24):
mom and her son for a shortperiod of time.
That was after I went to thatconference.
But so I was very much like myfriends were foster parents, I
had been a foster parent, I wasin social work, and so it was
like I need to know what this is.
So it was really that of justlike expanding my knowledge to
(09:44):
better understand the kids thatare in my life.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I love that.
I think that that, as any fosterparent, adoptive parent,
anybody in social work, I thinkwe constantly have to stay in
that space where we're open tolearning and and taking in new
knowledge, because things, Imean, they're learning so much
about the brain so rapidly youknow all of this evidence, stuff
(10:08):
is just coming down thepipeline very, very quickly, and
so I think it can just, I mean,we just get better with, you
know, with a lot of thatknowledge.
I do think it's very interestingthat you say that church people
were the hardest to work with,and in some cases I definitely
can see that, especially forpeople that are stepping in
(10:34):
ill-equipped, because I think alot of times, as Christians, we
have certain standards for ourlives.
We have standards for our homes, for our kids, for whatever,
and sometimes we can place sucha high value on those standards
you know that our lives shouldlook different, that we should
(10:56):
look holy, all the things thatin theory are good that we
actually miss the heart of allof it.
We miss the heart of all of it.
We become so focused on howthings look that we miss what
we're really supposed to be, theheart of what we're really
supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, and I think it's tricky because at least in
our area there's a push forchurches to have more people
become foster parents.
Right, yeah, and that's great.
Become foster parents right,yeah, and that's great.
But then what right?
The state doesn't do a good jobof preparing them for what
actually it means to care for achild who's experienced trauma?
Yeah, and so unless they, theindividuals themselves, have an
(11:40):
extensive background in childdevelopment or trauma-informed
care or therapy, or then theyjust don't know and we're
setting them up to fail.
And so that, to me, is the ifwe could bridge that gap and
somehow get churches tounderstand.
It's not as easy as justtelling people to sign up to
become a foster parent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we gotta knowmore before we step into that
(12:03):
role.
But, um, yeah, that'sdefinitely what I saw and it was
hard yeah, I I could.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I can see that very, very easily.
Our state has changed ourtraining, our our pre-service
training in our state and it isvery trauma-informed, um, and
pretty extensive.
At at this point I think it'slike 30 hours of training and I
don't think that parents canhandle much more than what we're
(12:31):
giving them through that time.
But it is very trauma informedand I know so.
I do pre-service training forfoster parents and our agency
works primarily with churchesand I do I lay it all out on the
table, because if you don't,then people don't really
understand what they're jumpinginto.
(12:52):
And I think a lot of times asprofessionals and parents that
are in it, that know the ins andouts and things, sometimes I
think we're afraid to tellpeople what it's really like
because then we're afraid peoplewon't sign up.
But it is very interesting to methat specifically our agency
(13:15):
specifically works with churchesand Christian foster parents.
So I don't know how this worksoutside of that realm, but
inside that circle what I see isactually just the opposite.
I mean I will tell parents likeI mean you need to be prepared
(13:35):
for anything.
Like I mean anything, like Idon't care if somebody burns
your house down you say, okay,I'm going to get a new one right
, like it's that kind of I tryto give them that level of
difficulty, not becauseeverybody's going to face that
level of difficulty, but so thatthey're aware that that level
(13:58):
of difficulty exists.
Correct, and what I actuallyfind is people are almost more
excited at the end of thattraining and it's because people
are not really afraid of hardas much as they're afraid of the
(14:20):
unknown, yeah, and they'reafraid of not having purpose,
yeah.
And I think when we say, hey,this is going to be hard, but
this is how we're going to equipyou to handle things.
These are the tools, these arethe resources, these are the
things that you can lean on,then I think it has it, doesn't?
People don't shy away from itin the same way that we fear
(14:45):
that they will.
And, honestly, if they do shyaway from it, they might need to
.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, okay, it's not for everyone they might need to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I mean, there probably are some people that
you know, like, bring a meal toa foster family to help out.
You know there are some otherways that you can give, but if
that's not how you feel likeGod's calling you to step in at
this time, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah Well, and I think that's important for
people to hear too is it takesjust as much of the village
around the foster home as itdoes?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Not just as much.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
The foster home is doing a lot, but they need to
have a village and they needpeople around them that get that
.
It's hard, and what they don'tneed to hear is well, why don't
you just put, you know, sendthem to bed timeout.
Why don't you just take awaythe TV?
Why don't you just spank themLike, why don't you just like
(15:43):
that's?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
what they don't need to hear is those judgment calls,
because unless you understandtrauma, that's not good advice.
So even if you, do understandtrauma.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You won't be giving that advice, that's right.
Yes, thank you.
And so that foster parents needto have people around them that
are either willing to get itand step into that with them or
just keep their mouth shut andbring them a meal and, you know,
clean their house for them and,you know, be willing to take
the dog for a walk and because,um, that is is super important
(16:12):
for families who are steppinginto this, who do get that it's
hard, who do understand thattrauma is bigger than just you
know, oh, I can love them andthey'll be fine.
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't, and I mean that's been
a blessing for us in this seasonwhere we're not fostering,
we're not active foster parents,but we have been able to pour
into other foster parents and bethat listening ear.
Sometimes, when they need, youknow somebody who gets it,
somebody who understands,somebody who's not going to give
(16:46):
them.
Hey, just take away TV for amonth you know, kind of advice
how do you start to work withfamilies to help them kind of
understand trauma-informedpractices?
Because I find that there's abig shift to get from point A to
point B and if you have peoplethat have jumped in, you know,
(17:07):
and they're in the trenchesalready, how do you get them
from point A to point B quickly?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, you know, what's interesting is, um, the
families that reach out to memany of them are adoptive
families, okay, um, and they'rerealizing, like this is harder
than we thought it would be, orwe've tried everything else, we
don't know what else to do.
We're willing to try this TBRIthing, right?
(17:34):
Yeah, I think that helpsbecause they are in that space
where they're already motivatedto try something new and make a
change.
Where it can be a little bitmore difficult when, when I'm
working with a family who isn'tthere and maybe it's like I've
worked with maybe five families,total of that are in this place
(17:57):
of somebody told them they hadto do this service and so
they're just jumping through thehoops, and that is a lot harder
because they don't think whatthey're doing is wrong, not
wrong.
They don't think that whatthey're doing is harmful to
their child or maybe not thebest way to parent a kid from
hard places.
They don't get that and sothat's harder.
(18:19):
So if we're talking about themajority of my clients, which
are they're motivated to change,they're motivated to try
something new, it's easier toget from point A to point Z.
But I always start with let'slook at your history as a
caregiver.
What childhood trauma did youhave?
(18:39):
Have you worked through it?
Are you in therapy?
What is your body responding to?
What support system do you have?
And then we look at what's thechild's history, understanding
the risk factors, understandinghow, even in utero, stress,
trauma, exposure could haveaffected how their brain and
(19:02):
body develop.
So that's like the that's thejumping off point that I start
with with every family is let'slook at the past.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, do you see a gap sometimes with parents that
adopt newborns or younger kids,in that they weren't expecting
the same kind of trauma forparents that adopt older?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
kids.
Here's what I would say aboutthat.
I think it for those familiesthat reach out to me, and they
did adopt from birth and maybeI'm the first service that
they've had in their home orworking with their family in an
extensive way.
It is interesting how often theydon't understand that that in
(19:48):
utero trauma, birth trauma andearly hospitalization or first
year of life attachment woundscan really play out into the
child's life.
And I think, again, that's apiece that I wish that was
taught more, whether for fostercare, training or before someone
(20:09):
becomes an adoptive parent thatyou can adopt from day one and
still have a kiddo who hasexperienced trauma that has
changed the wiring of theirbrain or how they feel in their
body, right, um and so I wouldsay that, as far as, like,
families who have adopted olderkids, it just seems like they
(20:32):
tend they may still be surprisedwhen I bring out that
information Like here's what weknow about kiddos who
experienced trauma in utero,here's how it can play out in
their life, right, there'sfamilies who are surprised by
that and it's like newinformation for them.
But because they've adopted anolder child, they just have been
(20:53):
through more.
Perhaps I actually don't I mean, this isn't scientific or
anything, it's just myperception, maybe, of what I see
and so it feels like they are alittle bit more on the side of
like, yeah, I get that thiskiddo has experienced a lot and
it's changed their wiring oftheir body and their brain where
(21:17):
somebody who adopted a newbornthat is a little bit harder to
get there.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, I see that too.
I mean I see that in people thatare entering the process and
just starting the process,whereas they may feel drawn to
newborns or toddlers becausethey feel like they're going to
skip over that trauma step talkto parents about all the time is
(21:47):
a lot of times it's actuallythe kids that are experiencing
that trauma in utero, in theinfant stage, in the toddler
stage, that sometimes have theworst impacts because of the
period of time where it'saffecting their brain, where
they're not getting the thingsthat they need, whereas an older
child maybe they had a coupleof years.
I mean I know with one of mykids.
(22:08):
She had a couple of years whereshe was in a very loving
nurturing environment for thosefirst three or four years of her
life and so the way that herbrain processed trauma and
worked through the trauma wasvery different than my kids that
didn't have that same nurturingexperience during that season,
(22:30):
because her brain is old enoughto process some of the things
that's happening, whereas youknow when, when you have infants
, I mean their brains can'tunderstand anything that's
happening to them.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, Well, and that's that's another piece that
I look at with my families isnot just the you know, risk
factors or the early, you know,childhood trauma zero to three,
essentially but also likeattachment stuff, like what did
that look like for them?
Did they get the attachmentcycle completed a hundred
(23:03):
thousand times like they reallyneeded?
And so we look at that a lot.
The attachment cycle completeda hundred thousand times like
they really needed, um, and sowe look at that a lot, um, and
we also look at just how thebrain develops in general and
how anything that comes in theway of that typical brain
development can affect how they,um, you know they can adapt
(23:27):
behaviors to survive, but thenthose behaviors can become
maladaptive in a healthyenvironment, right, but they're
just trying to survive.
So some of it is really justhelping families better
understand those pieces that canbe.
That can make a huge,significant change for them,
(23:49):
just because it changes theirmindset, it allows them to see
their kids through a differentlens.
The compassion grows, um, andthat's huge, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, I.
I would imagine, when parentscome to you, though, that
they're already like in direstraits, right Like there I know
.
So I coach foster and adoptiveparents, like in health stuff,
to work on their self-care andhealth strategies so that they
can parent better.
(24:20):
And one of the things that Isee is that parents don't
usually come to me until they'rehaving health problems, because
they think they don't need itbefore then.
Right, and so you had mentionedthe same thing on the parenting
aspect.
But so then how do you kind ofcome alongside of them and
support them and help thatparent feel supported, because
(24:43):
it takes time to get thatknowledge into them, and at the
same time, right like you don'tjust go I'm guessing you don't
just go straight to here's whatyou say to correct this behavior
, right, like it doesn't worklike that.
And so how do you help themfeel supported in that season
where they need hope, hope, but?
(25:06):
But the solution isn't a quickfix.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, I think that's why I always start with like
looking at them like what, whatwas your childhood like?
What traumas have you beenthrough, um, in your whole life,
you know?
Are you in therapy?
What are you doing for yourself?
How are you taking care ofyourself?
How are you taking care of yourmarriage?
Like that is one of the firstconversations that I have with
them to just kind of get themthinking through that, that um.
(25:31):
And and one thing that I justreally try to hit home with
every family I work with is itstarts with us Like when I work
with a family, I see thecaregivers by themselves,
without the kids, probably thefirst four or five times before
we even bring the kids inbecause it starts with us as the
caregivers, from recognizingour own triggers to identifying,
(25:53):
like, what are some things Ineed to work on?
Am I taking care of myself?
Am I doing the things I need todo to stay healthy?
Because if I'm not calm andregulated, I can't give that to
my kiddo Um, so that's kind ofwhere I start.
And then the other piece is allof the strategies I teach are
typically based in play, and soit just makes it a lot, um, more
(26:16):
manageable to say okay, for 10minutes.
I'm going to play this gamethat Melissa taught us with this
kit with my kiddo, and I don'tneed to have all the answers
today, but I'm going to justplay these games that are
teaching skills to both parentsand kids, and you know that
that's the hope.
Is that, um, that will thenhelp make new patterns, new
(26:38):
connections in the brain?
Um, but the other thing that Ialways tell families is when
we're done with our timetogether, you're not going to
look back and say, gosh, we're acompletely different family,
right, it's going to be a yearfrom now.
If you continue to put in theselittle tools that I've taught
you, or make these littlechanges, one step at a time, one
(27:01):
change at a time, a year fromnow you'll look back and say
we've come a long way and it'snot going to be perfect.
You're still going to have yourmoments.
You're still going to, you know, have times where you just
can't, you know like, but you'regoing to be able to see that
change.
So it's not the sprint, it'sthe marathon.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
I mean, that's true withanything.
I mean, you know, is that whenwe look for that quick fix,
often it doesn't give us the endresult that we're looking for.
If we want the long standingchange, we have to make the
little incremental changes thatit takes along the way.
Well, what do you think aresome of the biggest tools for
(27:45):
parents to have to know,resources for them to have, in
order to equip them better forparenting?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think that it kind of depends on how
they absorb information.
So I think that information so,um, I think that reading or
listening to podcasts are good,a really easy way to just start
thinking about thingsdifferently, cause that's how it
starts, right?
I had mentioned that beforethat like if somebody is telling
you to do it, it's you're goingto be resistant, but if you're
(28:19):
feeling like I think I wanted tolearn more about this, you know
there's some really good books.
The Connected Child is a greatone.
The Connected Parent ParentingKids with Big Baffling Behaviors
by Robin Goble is an amazingone.
So maybe even just startingthere if you're a reader or
listening to them on Audible.
Another would be podcasts.
So your podcast is great.
(28:40):
There's the Empowered toConnect podcast.
That is another great one.
That just gives like littlenuggets of TBRI, so it's not
like overwhelming.
You just can listen to it andabsorb what you want from it and
maybe try something new thisweek.
Um, my podcast.
I, you know, would love peopleto to see if they learn anything
new.
(29:01):
Um, from my podcast.
Um, but then also just the, thebiggest thing.
I think that and this is one ofthe first homework assignments
I give to my families is 10minutes of one-on-one time with
your kiddos at least once a week.
If you can do more, great, butsome of us with bigger families
that's hard, right, because wehave to like schedule it and
(29:24):
anyway.
But 10 minutes of one-on-onetime with your kids, it's the
play factor, it's allowing themto be see, to feel seen, heard
and valued.
For that 10 minutes longer ifyou can, right, but I'm just
saying 10 minutes.
It's a baby step.
We don't need to like do awhole big, drawn out, big
production.
And also it allows them to feeldelighted in.
(29:48):
And that's so key for our kidsto feel precious and delighted
in.
And that 10 minutes of time ofjust being able to like look in
their eyes and smile at them and, you know, say, gosh, you are
so creative.
I love how you are sharing yourLegos with me.
You are such a good friendright now.
You know, those things thatjust allow them to feel seen,
(30:10):
heard and valued is so important.
So that would be, you know, ifwe want to learn more books and
podcasts, if we're like I wantto actually do something, 10
minutes of one-on-one time withyour kiddo.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, yeah, that one-on-one time was huge in my
house for my, for my kids, and Imean we even started with five
minutes, but we did it.
We did it every single day.
Um, we just set aside 30minutes, y'all.
30 minutes it's not that long,30 minutes every single day.
I have six kids.
I literally went from room toroom and and and also I mean, on
top of like, helping them playand feel connected and feel seen
(30:49):
and all of that kind of stuff,we let our kids be the boss of
the play during that time and soit gave them a little bit of
control, which you know I thinkadds to their felt safety.
It again helps them feel likeyou were saying, seen and heard
and all the things.
But they got to decide how wewere going to play.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I'm glad that you brought that up, because I did
miss that part that it isimportant for our kids to lead
the play right.
It needs to be child led playUm, because we oftentimes will
get into this place of like well, you know, I'm going to make my
Lego house with a brown roof,cause that's what a roof usually
looks like and that can thenfeel like I'm trying to control
(31:30):
the play Right.
And we do want our kids to feellike we're sharing power with
them, because that's the reality.
Like I don't need to have allthe power, I don't need to be
the one that's like always incontrol of.
I would love that, but that'snot reality.
Right, right, right, right,right.
I think I even said that to oneof my kids this week.
They wouldn't put on it, shewouldn't put on a coat when we
were going for a walk.
(31:50):
It was like 50 degrees, but Iwas cold and I was like I just
want to control you right nowand have you put on a coat, but
you know she went without.
But that's the whole idea isallowing our kids to feel like
they have some control overwhatever it is, and that 10
(32:11):
minutes of play is the perfecttime to do that, because it's a
safe time, it's a playful time,and then our only job is to
basically do what they tell usto do and delight in them.
And that's easy.
We can do that for 10 minutes,right?
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
absolutely Well, and one of the things that we saw in
that time was that each of ourkids, their play styles, is so
different, right, and so I'm notasking them to adjust to my
play style, I am letting themlike.
I have one kid that's veryartistic and she just wants to
create during that time.
(32:44):
She wants us to draw, she wantsus to color, she wants us to
paint, she wants us crafts,right, like it's that kind of
stuff all the time.
I have another kid that wantsto play army Legos and that's
just what.
So, but it's allowing theirpersonality, like you get to
kind of see who they are inthose moments and what their
(33:06):
gifts are like, how the Lord hasgifted them, and I think it
gives us insight as to how togrow those gifts and talents in
them.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, well, and we're stepping into their world.
Right yeah, we're not makingthem come into our world where I
have all the control, becauseif I don't, I'm going to feel
anxious and I'm stepping intotheir world.
I'm curious about who they areas a person.
I'm delighting in who they areas a person.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yes, yeah, and it's totally relational.
It doesn't have anything to dowith efficiency or productivity.
I am a task-oriented person, orI am a task-oriented person and
so, but I just got in themindset that this 30 minutes,
this is what it's for, so Iactually probably need to get
(33:55):
back to that a little bit More.
I spend all day with my kids.
We homeschool, and so sometimesI take for granted that we
spend so much time together, alltogether, anyway.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
And my kids are a little bit older.
But yeah, I mean I reallyvalued, I mean that time was so,
so crucial, especially in thebeginning.
But it's never too late to do ityou know, yes, well, and
somebody I had somebody on thepodcast, I don't know, a while
back, a couple of months ago,that was talking about, you know
(34:30):
, cooking with your kids.
I mean, there's all of theselife skills now that my kids are
getting older that they need tolearn, that I really need to be
pouring into them in some ofthose ways.
You know, it's not just playanymore, but really preparing
them for what is to come, butbecause before too long they're
going to be adults out on theirown.
(34:53):
So really taking advantage ofthe time that we have together,
now.
Now, well, what differences doyou see, Melissa, in parents
when they first come to youright and when they finish their
services with you?
Like, how has their mindset,their hearts, like, how do
(35:14):
things shift along the?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
way.
Yeah, for the most part, I wouldsay that most families go from
a place of feeling like they arefailing as parents because,
especially in the church world,a lot of us were raised that way
.
Right that your kids are, that'sa direct result of how you are
(35:39):
as a parent, is how your kidsare respectful to others and
whether they listen and obey,and all of that Um, and they go
from this place of feeling likeI'm failing as a parent, I don't
know what to do, my kids don'tlisten to me, I, you know, and
feeling constantly frustratedwith I actually don't like my
kid, I hear that often um to aplace where, um, they still are
(36:01):
feeling big feelings, but theyfeel like it makes sense, like I
get where this is coming fromnow, and they get to a place
where they can actually holdspace for and slow down for the
big behaviors to then see theneed behind the behavior.
And you know, even though thatslowing down, seeing the need
(36:24):
behind behaviors, holding spacefor that can feel it takes more
time, so then it takes moreenergy, so it's exhausting it
actually, you see results and sothen you kind of look back and
say, gosh, me trying to controlthem by threatening them and
taking things away and trying tocontrol every way everything
(36:45):
that we do was even moreexhausting because I was putting
so much out there.
Where this is like you get tosee results.
You get to see that your kidsactually respond and melt into
your arms and want to be withyou and want to hold you and
aren't chucking things at yourhead.
(37:13):
That's nice, we always like thatthat's a good day.
Yeah, but it's like glimpses ofit.
So it's not like they're goingfrom, you know, point A to point
Z.
It's like they might be atpoint D and saying I'm seeing
glimpses of hope here, thatthat's where then they can
continue on that path.
And I have families who stillreach out to me and I've worked
with them two years ago and theywill text me still and be like
(37:35):
remind me again, what do I dowith this?
Yeah, yep, absolutely, I'llremind you, because that was a
lot and I love that you're stilltrying to do this two years
later.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
So, yeah, it's hard pick up a you know connected
child and flip through you knowdifferent things and different
(38:05):
strategies or watch differentvideos to remind myself like, oh
yeah, this is, this is how Ineed to either view this like
it's a mindset shift or I needto be actually physically doing
something different.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, and I do too, like Ireread the Robin Goebbels book
often and I'm always buying newbooks to be like, okay, I, I, I
struggle too, and so, and Ithink that's what you know, my
me just being really real andsaying to my family's like, yeah
, I yelled at my kid yesterdayand I had to repair, and I find
(38:40):
that that is actually betterthan if I just said, well, it
was his fault, he didn't do whatI said.
You know, then I'm, I just I'mreal with it, like this is hard
and so we're doing it together.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think it shows that that we
don't ever get to a place ofperfection, like the expectation
isn't that you're going to getto a place of perfection, right?
Because I think if that's whatwe feel like we're striving for,
then I feel like I'm alwaysconstantly failing, whereas if I
(39:11):
know that I'm not going to getto perfection, like I, I just do
the best that I can everysingle day, and and then
tomorrow I do the best that Ican.
That day.
Tomorrow's a new day, that'sright.
Well, Melissa, how can familiesfind you what you know?
(39:33):
Where can they look for you orwhatever, for resources that you
have, or you know things thatyou have to offer?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, so my website is probably the best way, cause
everything is on there.
I have a you know, a blog onthere where I post once a month.
I have my podcast, um, you canlisten to any of those episodes,
but I also have resources, um,as well as services that I offer
.
So that'swwwmendingfamilieswacom.
Um, and then I'm on Instagramand Tik TOK and Facebook, and
(40:03):
those are all, uh, mendingfamilies, wa.
So, um, you can find me on allthe social media too.
So, um, I also would love togive your listeners a freebie,
um, so I think I sent you thatlink, but if I didn't, let me
know.
Um, I just created a one pagerthat is six tips to calm your
(40:23):
nervous system because, likewe've said, it starts with us
and we have to make sure that weare regulated so that we can
then help our kids regulate.
So I have that for yourlisteners if they want to grab
that freebie.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Awesome, I love it.
I will put all of those thingsin the show notes.
Awesome, I love it.
I will put all of those thingsin the show notes.
And, melissa, I just thank youso much for all the value that
you've brought to everybodytoday and just giving parents, I
think, hope that this space maybe hard, but there are tools,
there are resources, there arepeople there to walk alongside
(41:02):
of them as they walk throughthis journey.
Yeah, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Of course, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Phew, wasn't that so good.
Melissa shared so many helpfulinsights and practical tools.
I know you're going to want todig into them even more.
Don't worry.
I've linked everything wetalked about in today's show
notes so you can go back andcheck them out after this
episode.
If this conversation encouragedyou, would you do me a quick
favor, take a second and rateand review the podcast?
(41:31):
It helps so much in gettingthis out to more foster and
adoptive parents who need thesupport.
And, if you haven't yet, besure to sign up for my
newsletter.
That link is also in the shownotes.
Every week, I share quick,faith-filled tips on trauma and
wellness for us as parents.
Just last week, I sent out afew tools for regulating in
(41:51):
those moments of pure chaos,because we've all been there.
Right Before I go, I'd love topray over you and I hope you
have a great week.
Father, thank you for everyparent listening today.
You see the weight they carryand the love they give so freely
.
I ask that you strengthen themfor the road ahead and remind
(42:13):
them that they are never walkingit alone.
Give them wisdom as they carefor children from hard places
and help them receive your carefor their hearts too, lord.
Help them understand that theymatter when the days feel heavy.
Bring peace.
When the moments are messy,lord.
Bring clarity and in all things, may they know that you are
(42:36):
near and that they are deeply,deeply loved.
Jesus, we love you, we trustyou.
It's in your name we pray, amen.
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real, candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:32):
joy.
I want you to, Nicole T Barlow,mom of six five through
(01:01):
adoption I'm a certifiedwellness coach and a parent
trainer.
I'm here to help you care foryourself while you care for your
kids, especially when you'reparenting in the hard places.
I hope you all had a beautifulEaster last week, whether it was
peaceful or chaotic or a mix ofboth.
I pray that it pointed you backto hope and renewal.
(01:22):
Today I've got a special guest,melissa Pemberton, joining me
for a conversation I think everyfoster and adoptive parent
needs to hear, even if you'rejust considering foster care or
adoption.
We are diving into some stepsto becoming trauma-informed and
why it's not just a buzzword butit is a game changer on this
(01:45):
parenting journey.
My guest, melissa, istrauma-aware licensed therapist,
a parent coach, a podcaster andthe owner of Mending Families.
She has over 20 years ofexperience working with families
in child welfare, from casemanagement to writing home
studies, to running a fostercare nonprofit, and she is
(02:06):
trained in a variety oftrauma-aware curricula.
I'm so excited for you to hearfrom her.
She is a wealth of knowledge.
Welcome to the podcast, melissa.
I'm so excited to have you ontoday, so tell us a little about
you and how you got into thefoster care adoption world?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, for sure.
So gosh, so much about me.
No, I'm like, where should Istart?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Do you want to hear about my childhood?
No, Sure Listen if it pertainsto it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, I mean it kind of does Like I had.
I had a rough childhood growingup, um, and found myself a teen
mom, um, and I had startedcollege and then dropped out of
college and when I went back Iwas going to be an elementary
teacher and went to school forthat, and then I took um a
developmental psychology classand it was in that class that I
(03:02):
was like wait, wait, wait, wait.
I don't want to be a teacher, Iwant to help kids who, like I,
was seeing a lot of like a lotof myself that like I didn't
realize I had things that wereso hard in my childhood and I
also was seeing, like I waspotentially like repeating
patterns with my daughter, andso that class was kind of
(03:24):
transforming for me.
I ended up going down the roadof social work and got my
master's in social work as asingle mama.
So you know, good job Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
That's hard.
I mean, that's no joke,honestly Like I was a single mom
for seven years and that is, Iwould have never gone back to
school at that time.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, well, and thank goodness, like my mom, we joked
a lot that my mom was basicallymy daughter's dad.
Okay, yeah yeah, yeah, she wasso supportive, but so went down
the route of social work andended up working for Child
Protective Services for a fewyears and that was kind of like,
okay, this is good.
(04:05):
But also like I'm seeing a lotof foster parents who just
aren't trauma informed and don'tget this, and so I kind of
decided to go the route of howcan I be some more supportive of
foster parents?
Um, and found myself working fora foster agency nonprofit
foster care agency in town andum, and that was great and it
(04:26):
was actually cool, cause I wasable to bring TBRI to that
agency and we required all ofour foster parents to take TBRI
training and we're just reallytrying to like wrap around the
trauma informed piece there.
Um, and then ultimately I justdecided three years ago that I
wanted to do my own thing and Iwanted to start my own business,
(04:47):
and so I started MendingFamilies in June of 22 with the
intention of just continuing toreally bring trauma-informed
practices to families, toindividuals, whether it's
through therapy, family therapy,parent coaching, um, my podcast
, like whatever it is, there'sjust um, we just know so much
(05:09):
more now about how traumaaffects the entire person and I
don't think that the stateagencies do a good job of really
preparing foster and adoptivefamilies for that.
So, um, just trying to fillthat gap, one person at a time.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
That is huge.
I mean honestly, like that is areally, really, really big deal
and really, really crucial forthe people that are going to be
doing this work to be equippedto do the work right.
Where do you feel like?
You first learned abouttrauma-informed practices or
(05:47):
whatever?
Was it in school?
How did you get tossed intothat world?
I think so many professionalsaren't informed in that kind of
stuff, and so how did you becomeaware of trauma-informed
practices aware oftrauma-informed practices, you
know, sadly, it was.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I'm not going to say sadly, but it is kind of sad
that it took me this long.
It was 2016 and I went to theEmpowered to Connect conference,
but I don't think it's calledthat anymore.
It's called something else.
It's called Hope for theJourney.
Yes, so I went to that and thatwas the first time I had heard
of TBRI, and by that point, Ihad been parenting for 16 years
(06:30):
already, which is why I saysadly, because I feel like my
oldest daughter kind of got youknow, she didn't get the best of
me, but that was the first timeI heard about TBRI in a way, or
trauma-informed parenting, in away that really made sense and
really put a lot of the piecestogether as far as, like, what I
(06:52):
knew about attachment and whatI knew about, you know,
attachment, wounds and what Iknew about how the brain works
different.
It was like I knew all thesethings from my time working for
in the child welfare system, butI hadn't seen it all put
together in that way.
Um and so that was the firsttime, but prior to that, you
(07:14):
know, when I worked for CPS, Idon't think I realized that what
I saw missing wastrauma-informed care.
What I saw was foster parentswho were faith-based homes, and
they were the hardest fosterparents for us social workers to
work with.
They demanded more money, theyfelt like they were owed
(07:37):
something, they had the mostcomplaints.
They asked to have kids movedmore often, and so it was that
piece that I was like wait, ifwe're believers, we're
Christians, shouldn't we lovelike Jesus, loves Like what is
happening here?
But what I think I saw afterthe fact, when I look back right
, I think what I saw was theydidn't have the information,
(07:59):
they didn't understand trauma,they didn't understand that it
affects the whole child, whichthen, in turn, affects the whole
family, and that was the piecethat was missing.
So, to answer your question,consciously, 2016, but I think
that I saw that prior to um,prior to that, and I just didn't
(08:21):
have a name for it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Like it was, it was probablyeasier for you to attach to
those ideals, those pieces ofthe puzzle, when they all came
together, because you had seenevidence of that all the way all
along.
What drew you to thatconference in the first place?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Because I'm not really sure.
Oh, it was just that, that wasthe world I was in, and a friend
of mine who is a foster parent,she was going and so she.
So I was like, yeah, I mean, Ihave time, I can go, I can have
it be like my work day,basically, and so it was more
(09:04):
just that idea of as a socialworker I was wanting to continue
to uh, increase my knowledgearound how can we help these
kids that we're working with?
Um, and was very much in theworld of well cause.
I was a foster parent for ashort time too, when I was a
single mom, and then also myhusband and I fostered a teen
(09:24):
mom and her son for a shortperiod of time.
That was after I went to thatconference.
But so I was very much like myfriends were foster parents, I
had been a foster parent, I wasin social work, and so it was
like I need to know what this is.
So it was really that of justlike expanding my knowledge to
(09:44):
better understand the kids thatare in my life.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I love that.
I think that that, as any fosterparent, adoptive parent,
anybody in social work, I thinkwe constantly have to stay in
that space where we're open tolearning and and taking in new
knowledge, because things, Imean, they're learning so much
about the brain so rapidly youknow all of this evidence, stuff
(10:08):
is just coming down thepipeline very, very quickly, and
so I think it can just, I mean,we just get better with, you
know, with a lot of thatknowledge.
I do think it's very interestingthat you say that church people
were the hardest to work with,and in some cases I definitely
can see that, especially forpeople that are stepping in
(10:34):
ill-equipped, because I think alot of times, as Christians, we
have certain standards for ourlives.
We have standards for our homes, for our kids, for whatever,
and sometimes we can place sucha high value on those standards
you know that our lives shouldlook different, that we should
(10:56):
look holy, all the things thatin theory are good that we
actually miss the heart of allof it.
We miss the heart of all of it.
We become so focused on howthings look that we miss what
we're really supposed to be, theheart of what we're really
supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, and I think it's tricky because at least in
our area there's a push forchurches to have more people
become foster parents.
Right, yeah, and that's great.
Become foster parents right,yeah, and that's great.
But then what right?
The state doesn't do a good jobof preparing them for what
actually it means to care for achild who's experienced trauma?
Yeah, and so unless they, theindividuals themselves, have an
(11:40):
extensive background in childdevelopment or trauma-informed
care or therapy, or then theyjust don't know and we're
setting them up to fail.
And so that, to me, is the ifwe could bridge that gap and
somehow get churches tounderstand.
It's not as easy as justtelling people to sign up to
become a foster parent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we gotta knowmore before we step into that
(12:03):
role.
But, um, yeah, that'sdefinitely what I saw and it was
hard yeah, I I could.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I can see that very, very easily.
Our state has changed ourtraining, our our pre-service
training in our state and it isvery trauma-informed, um, and
pretty extensive.
At at this point I think it'slike 30 hours of training and I
don't think that parents canhandle much more than what we're
(12:31):
giving them through that time.
But it is very trauma informedand I know so.
I do pre-service training forfoster parents and our agency
works primarily with churchesand I do I lay it all out on the
table, because if you don't,then people don't really
understand what they're jumpinginto.
(12:52):
And I think a lot of times asprofessionals and parents that
are in it, that know the ins andouts and things, sometimes I
think we're afraid to tellpeople what it's really like
because then we're afraid peoplewon't sign up.
But it is very interesting to methat specifically our agency
(13:15):
specifically works with churchesand Christian foster parents.
So I don't know how this worksoutside of that realm, but
inside that circle what I see isactually just the opposite.
I mean I will tell parents likeI mean you need to be prepared
(13:35):
for anything.
Like I mean anything, like Idon't care if somebody burns
your house down you say, okay,I'm going to get a new one right
, like it's that kind of I tryto give them that level of
difficulty, not becauseeverybody's going to face that
level of difficulty, but so thatthey're aware that that level
(13:58):
of difficulty exists.
Correct, and what I actuallyfind is people are almost more
excited at the end of thattraining and it's because people
are not really afraid of hardas much as they're afraid of the
(14:20):
unknown, yeah, and they'reafraid of not having purpose,
yeah.
And I think when we say, hey,this is going to be hard, but
this is how we're going to equipyou to handle things.
These are the tools, these arethe resources, these are the
things that you can lean on,then I think it has it, doesn't?
People don't shy away from itin the same way that we fear
(14:45):
that they will.
And, honestly, if they do shyaway from it, they might need to
.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, okay, it's not for everyone they might need to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I mean, there probably are some people that
you know, like, bring a meal toa foster family to help out.
You know there are some otherways that you can give, but if
that's not how you feel likeGod's calling you to step in at
this time, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah Well, and I think that's important for
people to hear too is it takesjust as much of the village
around the foster home as itdoes?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Not just as much.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
The foster home is doing a lot, but they need to
have a village and they needpeople around them that get that
.
It's hard, and what they don'tneed to hear is well, why don't
you just put, you know, sendthem to bed timeout.
Why don't you just take awaythe TV?
Why don't you just spank themLike, why don't you just like
(15:43):
that's?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
what they don't need to hear is those judgment calls,
because unless you understandtrauma, that's not good advice.
So even if you, do understandtrauma.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You won't be giving that advice, that's right.
Yes, thank you.
And so that foster parents needto have people around them that
are either willing to get itand step into that with them or
just keep their mouth shut andbring them a meal and, you know,
clean their house for them and,you know, be willing to take
the dog for a walk and because,um, that is is super important
(16:12):
for families who are steppinginto this, who do get that it's
hard, who do understand thattrauma is bigger than just you
know, oh, I can love them andthey'll be fine.
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't, and I mean that's been
a blessing for us in this seasonwhere we're not fostering,
we're not active foster parents,but we have been able to pour
into other foster parents and bethat listening ear.
Sometimes, when they need, youknow somebody who gets it,
somebody who understands,somebody who's not going to give
(16:46):
them.
Hey, just take away TV for amonth you know, kind of advice
how do you start to work withfamilies to help them kind of
understand trauma-informedpractices?
Because I find that there's abig shift to get from point A to
point B and if you have peoplethat have jumped in, you know,
(17:07):
and they're in the trenchesalready, how do you get them
from point A to point B quickly?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, you know, what's interesting is, um, the
families that reach out to memany of them are adoptive
families, okay, um, and they'rerealizing, like this is harder
than we thought it would be, orwe've tried everything else, we
don't know what else to do.
We're willing to try this TBRIthing, right?
(17:34):
Yeah, I think that helpsbecause they are in that space
where they're already motivatedto try something new and make a
change.
Where it can be a little bitmore difficult when, when I'm
working with a family who isn'tthere and maybe it's like I've
worked with maybe five families,total of that are in this place
(17:57):
of somebody told them they hadto do this service and so
they're just jumping through thehoops, and that is a lot harder
because they don't think whatthey're doing is wrong, not
wrong.
They don't think that whatthey're doing is harmful to
their child or maybe not thebest way to parent a kid from
hard places.
They don't get that and sothat's harder.
(18:19):
So if we're talking about themajority of my clients, which
are they're motivated to change,they're motivated to try
something new, it's easier toget from point A to point Z.
But I always start with let'slook at your history as a
caregiver.
What childhood trauma did youhave?
(18:39):
Have you worked through it?
Are you in therapy?
What is your body responding to?
What support system do you have?
And then we look at what's thechild's history, understanding
the risk factors, understandinghow, even in utero, stress,
trauma, exposure could haveaffected how their brain and
(19:02):
body develop.
So that's like the that's thejumping off point that I start
with with every family is let'slook at the past.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, do you see a gap sometimes with parents that
adopt newborns or younger kids,in that they weren't expecting
the same kind of trauma forparents that adopt older?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
kids.
Here's what I would say aboutthat.
I think it for those familiesthat reach out to me, and they
did adopt from birth and maybeI'm the first service that
they've had in their home orworking with their family in an
extensive way.
It is interesting how often theydon't understand that that in
(19:48):
utero trauma, birth trauma andearly hospitalization or first
year of life attachment woundscan really play out into the
child's life.
And I think, again, that's apiece that I wish that was
taught more, whether for fostercare, training or before someone
(20:09):
becomes an adoptive parent thatyou can adopt from day one and
still have a kiddo who hasexperienced trauma that has
changed the wiring of theirbrain or how they feel in their
body, right, um and so I wouldsay that, as far as, like,
families who have adopted olderkids, it just seems like they
(20:32):
tend they may still be surprisedwhen I bring out that
information Like here's what weknow about kiddos who
experienced trauma in utero,here's how it can play out in
their life, right, there'sfamilies who are surprised by
that and it's like newinformation for them.
But because they've adopted anolder child, they just have been
(20:53):
through more.
Perhaps I actually don't I mean, this isn't scientific or
anything, it's just myperception, maybe, of what I see
and so it feels like they are alittle bit more on the side of
like, yeah, I get that thiskiddo has experienced a lot and
it's changed their wiring oftheir body and their brain where
(21:17):
somebody who adopted a newbornthat is a little bit harder to
get there.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, I see that too.
I mean I see that in people thatare entering the process and
just starting the process,whereas they may feel drawn to
newborns or toddlers becausethey feel like they're going to
skip over that trauma step talkto parents about all the time is
(21:47):
a lot of times it's actuallythe kids that are experiencing
that trauma in utero, in theinfant stage, in the toddler
stage, that sometimes have theworst impacts because of the
period of time where it'saffecting their brain, where
they're not getting the thingsthat they need, whereas an older
child maybe they had a coupleof years.
I mean I know with one of mykids.
(22:08):
She had a couple of years whereshe was in a very loving
nurturing environment for thosefirst three or four years of her
life and so the way that herbrain processed trauma and
worked through the trauma wasvery different than my kids that
didn't have that same nurturingexperience during that season,
(22:30):
because her brain is old enoughto process some of the things
that's happening, whereas youknow when, when you have infants
, I mean their brains can'tunderstand anything that's
happening to them.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, Well, and that's that's another piece that
I look at with my families isnot just the you know, risk
factors or the early, you know,childhood trauma zero to three,
essentially but also likeattachment stuff, like what did
that look like for them?
Did they get the attachmentcycle completed a hundred
(23:03):
thousand times like they reallyneeded?
And so we look at that a lot.
The attachment cycle completeda hundred thousand times like
they really needed, um, and sowe look at that a lot, um, and
we also look at just how thebrain develops in general and
how anything that comes in theway of that typical brain
development can affect how they,um, you know they can adapt
(23:27):
behaviors to survive, but thenthose behaviors can become
maladaptive in a healthyenvironment, right, but they're
just trying to survive.
So some of it is really justhelping families better
understand those pieces that canbe.
That can make a huge,significant change for them,
(23:49):
just because it changes theirmindset, it allows them to see
their kids through a differentlens.
The compassion grows, um, andthat's huge, yep.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, I.
I would imagine, when parentscome to you, though, that
they're already like in direstraits, right Like there I know
.
So I coach foster and adoptiveparents, like in health stuff,
to work on their self-care andhealth strategies so that they
can parent better.
(24:20):
And one of the things that Isee is that parents don't
usually come to me until they'rehaving health problems, because
they think they don't need itbefore then.
Right, and so you had mentionedthe same thing on the parenting
aspect.
But so then how do you kind ofcome alongside of them and
support them and help thatparent feel supported, because
(24:43):
it takes time to get thatknowledge into them, and at the
same time, right like you don'tjust go I'm guessing you don't
just go straight to here's whatyou say to correct this behavior
, right, like it doesn't worklike that.
And so how do you help themfeel supported in that season
where they need hope, hope, but?
(25:06):
But the solution isn't a quickfix.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, I think that's why I always start with like
looking at them like what, whatwas your childhood like?
What traumas have you beenthrough, um, in your whole life,
you know?
Are you in therapy?
What are you doing for yourself?
How are you taking care ofyourself?
How are you taking care of yourmarriage?
Like that is one of the firstconversations that I have with
them to just kind of get themthinking through that, that um.
(25:31):
And and one thing that I justreally try to hit home with
every family I work with is itstarts with us Like when I work
with a family, I see thecaregivers by themselves,
without the kids, probably thefirst four or five times before
we even bring the kids inbecause it starts with us as the
caregivers, from recognizingour own triggers to identifying,
(25:53):
like, what are some things Ineed to work on?
Am I taking care of myself?
Am I doing the things I need todo to stay healthy?
Because if I'm not calm andregulated, I can't give that to
my kiddo Um, so that's kind ofwhere I start.
And then the other piece is allof the strategies I teach are
typically based in play, and soit just makes it a lot, um, more
(26:16):
manageable to say okay, for 10minutes.
I'm going to play this gamethat Melissa taught us with this
kit with my kiddo, and I don'tneed to have all the answers
today, but I'm going to justplay these games that are
teaching skills to both parentsand kids, and you know that
that's the hope.
Is that, um, that will thenhelp make new patterns, new
(26:38):
connections in the brain?
Um, but the other thing that Ialways tell families is when
we're done with our timetogether, you're not going to
look back and say, gosh, we're acompletely different family,
right, it's going to be a yearfrom now.
If you continue to put in theselittle tools that I've taught
you, or make these littlechanges, one step at a time, one
(27:01):
change at a time, a year fromnow you'll look back and say
we've come a long way and it'snot going to be perfect.
You're still going to have yourmoments.
You're still going to, you know, have times where you just
can't, you know like, but you'regoing to be able to see that
change.
So it's not the sprint, it'sthe marathon.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
I mean, that's true withanything.
I mean, you know, is that whenwe look for that quick fix,
often it doesn't give us the endresult that we're looking for.
If we want the long standingchange, we have to make the
little incremental changes thatit takes along the way.
Well, what do you think aresome of the biggest tools for
(27:45):
parents to have to know,resources for them to have, in
order to equip them better forparenting?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think that it kind of depends on how
they absorb information.
So I think that information so,um, I think that reading or
listening to podcasts are good,a really easy way to just start
thinking about thingsdifferently, cause that's how it
starts, right?
I had mentioned that beforethat like if somebody is telling
you to do it, it's you're goingto be resistant, but if you're
(28:19):
feeling like I think I wanted tolearn more about this, you know
there's some really good books.
The Connected Child is a greatone.
The Connected Parent ParentingKids with Big Baffling Behaviors
by Robin Goble is an amazingone.
So maybe even just startingthere if you're a reader or
listening to them on Audible.
Another would be podcasts.
So your podcast is great.
(28:40):
There's the Empowered toConnect podcast.
That is another great one.
That just gives like littlenuggets of TBRI, so it's not
like overwhelming.
You just can listen to it andabsorb what you want from it and
maybe try something new thisweek.
Um, my podcast.
I, you know, would love peopleto to see if they learn anything
new.
(29:01):
Um, from my podcast.
Um, but then also just the, thebiggest thing.
I think that and this is one ofthe first homework assignments
I give to my families is 10minutes of one-on-one time with
your kiddos at least once a week.
If you can do more, great, butsome of us with bigger families
that's hard, right, because wehave to like schedule it and
(29:24):
anyway.
But 10 minutes of one-on-onetime with your kids, it's the
play factor, it's allowing themto be see, to feel seen, heard
and valued.
For that 10 minutes longer ifyou can, right, but I'm just
saying 10 minutes.
It's a baby step.
We don't need to like do awhole big, drawn out, big
production.
And also it allows them to feeldelighted in.
(29:48):
And that's so key for our kidsto feel precious and delighted
in.
And that 10 minutes of time ofjust being able to like look in
their eyes and smile at them and, you know, say, gosh, you are
so creative.
I love how you are sharing yourLegos with me.
You are such a good friendright now.
You know, those things thatjust allow them to feel seen,
(30:10):
heard and valued is so important.
So that would be, you know, ifwe want to learn more books and
podcasts, if we're like I wantto actually do something, 10
minutes of one-on-one time withyour kiddo.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, yeah, that one-on-one time was huge in my
house for my, for my kids, and Imean we even started with five
minutes, but we did it.
We did it every single day.
Um, we just set aside 30minutes, y'all.
30 minutes it's not that long,30 minutes every single day.
I have six kids.
I literally went from room toroom and and and also I mean, on
top of like, helping them playand feel connected and feel seen
(30:49):
and all of that kind of stuff,we let our kids be the boss of
the play during that time and soit gave them a little bit of
control, which you know I thinkadds to their felt safety.
It again helps them feel likeyou were saying, seen and heard
and all the things.
But they got to decide how wewere going to play.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I'm glad that you brought that up, because I did
miss that part that it isimportant for our kids to lead
the play right.
It needs to be child led playUm, because we oftentimes will
get into this place of like well, you know, I'm going to make my
Lego house with a brown roof,cause that's what a roof usually
looks like and that can thenfeel like I'm trying to control
(31:30):
the play Right.
And we do want our kids to feellike we're sharing power with
them, because that's the reality.
Like I don't need to have allthe power, I don't need to be
the one that's like always incontrol of.
I would love that, but that'snot reality.
Right, right, right, right,right.
I think I even said that to oneof my kids this week.
They wouldn't put on it, shewouldn't put on a coat when we
were going for a walk.
(31:50):
It was like 50 degrees, but Iwas cold and I was like I just
want to control you right nowand have you put on a coat, but
you know she went without.
But that's the whole idea isallowing our kids to feel like
they have some control overwhatever it is, and that 10
(32:11):
minutes of play is the perfecttime to do that, because it's a
safe time, it's a playful time,and then our only job is to
basically do what they tell usto do and delight in them.
And that's easy.
We can do that for 10 minutes,right?
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
absolutely Well, and one of the things that we saw in
that time was that each of ourkids, their play styles, is so
different, right, and so I'm notasking them to adjust to my
play style, I am letting themlike.
I have one kid that's veryartistic and she just wants to
create during that time.
(32:44):
She wants us to draw, she wantsus to color, she wants us to
paint, she wants us crafts,right, like it's that kind of
stuff all the time.
I have another kid that wantsto play army Legos and that's
just what.
So, but it's allowing theirpersonality, like you get to
kind of see who they are inthose moments and what their
(33:06):
gifts are like, how the Lord hasgifted them, and I think it
gives us insight as to how togrow those gifts and talents in
them.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, well, and we're stepping into their world.
Right yeah, we're not makingthem come into our world where I
have all the control, becauseif I don't, I'm going to feel
anxious and I'm stepping intotheir world.
I'm curious about who they areas a person.
I'm delighting in who they areas a person.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yes, yeah, and it's totally relational.
It doesn't have anything to dowith efficiency or productivity.
I am a task-oriented person, orI am a task-oriented person and
so, but I just got in themindset that this 30 minutes,
this is what it's for, so Iactually probably need to get
(33:55):
back to that a little bit More.
I spend all day with my kids.
We homeschool, and so sometimesI take for granted that we
spend so much time together, alltogether, anyway.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
And my kids are a little bit older.
But yeah, I mean I reallyvalued, I mean that time was so,
so crucial, especially in thebeginning.
But it's never too late to do ityou know, yes, well, and
somebody I had somebody on thepodcast, I don't know, a while
back, a couple of months ago,that was talking about, you know
(34:30):
, cooking with your kids.
I mean, there's all of theselife skills now that my kids are
getting older that they need tolearn, that I really need to be
pouring into them in some ofthose ways.
You know, it's not just playanymore, but really preparing
them for what is to come, butbecause before too long they're
going to be adults out on theirown.
(34:53):
So really taking advantage ofthe time that we have together,
now.
Now, well, what differences doyou see, Melissa, in parents
when they first come to youright and when they finish their
services with you?
Like, how has their mindset,their hearts, like, how do
(35:14):
things shift along the?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
way.
Yeah, for the most part, I wouldsay that most families go from
a place of feeling like they arefailing as parents because,
especially in the church world,a lot of us were raised that way
.
Right that your kids are, that'sa direct result of how you are
(35:39):
as a parent, is how your kidsare respectful to others and
whether they listen and obey,and all of that Um, and they go
from this place of feeling likeI'm failing as a parent, I don't
know what to do, my kids don'tlisten to me, I, you know, and
feeling constantly frustratedwith I actually don't like my
kid, I hear that often um to aplace where, um, they still are
(36:01):
feeling big feelings, but theyfeel like it makes sense, like I
get where this is coming fromnow, and they get to a place
where they can actually holdspace for and slow down for the
big behaviors to then see theneed behind the behavior.
And you know, even though thatslowing down, seeing the need
(36:24):
behind behaviors, holding spacefor that can feel it takes more
time, so then it takes moreenergy, so it's exhausting it
actually, you see results and sothen you kind of look back and
say, gosh, me trying to controlthem by threatening them and
taking things away and trying tocontrol every way everything
(36:45):
that we do was even moreexhausting because I was putting
so much out there.
Where this is like you get tosee results.
You get to see that your kidsactually respond and melt into
your arms and want to be withyou and want to hold you and
aren't chucking things at yourhead.
(37:13):
That's nice, we always like thatthat's a good day.
Yeah, but it's like glimpses ofit.
So it's not like they're goingfrom, you know, point A to point
Z.
It's like they might be atpoint D and saying I'm seeing
glimpses of hope here, thatthat's where then they can
continue on that path.
And I have families who stillreach out to me and I've worked
with them two years ago and theywill text me still and be like
(37:35):
remind me again, what do I dowith this?
Yeah, yep, absolutely, I'llremind you, because that was a
lot and I love that you're stilltrying to do this two years
later.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
So, yeah, it's hard pick up a you know connected
child and flip through you knowdifferent things and different
(38:05):
strategies or watch differentvideos to remind myself like, oh
yeah, this is, this is how Ineed to either view this like
it's a mindset shift or I needto be actually physically doing
something different.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, and I do too, like Ireread the Robin Goebbels book
often and I'm always buying newbooks to be like, okay, I, I, I
struggle too, and so, and Ithink that's what you know, my
me just being really real andsaying to my family's like, yeah
, I yelled at my kid yesterdayand I had to repair, and I find
(38:40):
that that is actually betterthan if I just said, well, it
was his fault, he didn't do whatI said.
You know, then I'm, I just I'mreal with it, like this is hard
and so we're doing it together.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think it shows that that we
don't ever get to a place ofperfection, like the expectation
isn't that you're going to getto a place of perfection, right?
Because I think if that's whatwe feel like we're striving for,
then I feel like I'm alwaysconstantly failing, whereas if I
(39:11):
know that I'm not going to getto perfection, like I, I just do
the best that I can everysingle day, and and then
tomorrow I do the best that Ican.
That day.
Tomorrow's a new day, that'sright.
Well, Melissa, how can familiesfind you what you know?
(39:33):
Where can they look for you orwhatever, for resources that you
have, or you know things thatyou have to offer?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, so my website is probably the best way, cause
everything is on there.
I have a you know, a blog onthere where I post once a month.
I have my podcast, um, you canlisten to any of those episodes,
but I also have resources, um,as well as services that I offer
.
So that'swwwmendingfamilieswacom.
Um, and then I'm on Instagramand Tik TOK and Facebook, and
(40:03):
those are all, uh, mendingfamilies, wa.
So, um, you can find me on allthe social media too.
So, um, I also would love togive your listeners a freebie,
um, so I think I sent you thatlink, but if I didn't, let me
know.
Um, I just created a one pagerthat is six tips to calm your
(40:23):
nervous system because, likewe've said, it starts with us
and we have to make sure that weare regulated so that we can
then help our kids regulate.
So I have that for yourlisteners if they want to grab
that freebie.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Awesome, I love it.
I will put all of those thingsin the show notes.
Awesome, I love it.
I will put all of those thingsin the show notes.
And, melissa, I just thank youso much for all the value that
you've brought to everybodytoday and just giving parents, I
think, hope that this space maybe hard, but there are tools,
there are resources, there arepeople there to walk alongside
(41:02):
of them as they walk throughthis journey.
Yeah, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Of course, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Phew, wasn't that so good.
Melissa shared so many helpfulinsights and practical tools.
I know you're going to want todig into them even more.
Don't worry.
I've linked everything wetalked about in today's show
notes so you can go back andcheck them out after this
episode.
If this conversation encouragedyou, would you do me a quick
favor, take a second and rateand review the podcast?
(41:31):
It helps so much in gettingthis out to more foster and
adoptive parents who need thesupport.
And, if you haven't yet, besure to sign up for my
newsletter.
That link is also in the shownotes.
Every week, I share quick,faith-filled tips on trauma and
wellness for us as parents.
Just last week, I sent out afew tools for regulating in
(41:51):
those moments of pure chaos,because we've all been there.
Right Before I go, I'd love topray over you and I hope you
have a great week.
Father, thank you for everyparent listening today.
You see the weight they carryand the love they give so freely
.
I ask that you strengthen themfor the road ahead and remind
(42:13):
them that they are never walkingit alone.
Give them wisdom as they carefor children from hard places
and help them receive your carefor their hearts too, lord.
Help them understand that theymatter when the days feel heavy.
Bring peace.
When the moments are messy,lord.
Bring clarity and in all things, may they know that you are
(42:36):
near and that they are deeply,deeply loved.
Jesus, we love you, we trustyou.
It's in your name we pray, amen.
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