October 1, 2025 • 53 mins
What if trauma-informed parenting isn’t a departure from biblical wisdom but a practical expression of it? That question drives a heartfelt conversation with guest Kristin Orphan, cofounder of Finally Home, a national nonprofit equipping foster, adoptive, and kinship families with education, encouragement, and community. We dig into what trauma actually does in the brain, why “traditional” parenting often assumes preexisting trust, and how compassion and clear values can peacefully coexist. The destination—raising kids who thrive in character and faith—stays the same; the route changes because our children’s starting points are different.
We share concrete ways to build trust first—connection before correction—so guidance can land. You’ll hear how to set values-based rules, avoid provoking fight/flight responses, and use developmentally appropriate expectations without compromising standards like honesty and respect. Kristen offers lived-in wisdom on launching young adults, empowering kids to self-advocate, and embracing the long game where outcomes can’t be forced and free will is real. We also talk candidly about the mirror parenting holds up: the shame, the triggers, and the grace that meets us when we admit limits and repair quickly.
Self-care takes center stage as stewardship rather than indulgence. From sleep and movement to prayer and Scripture, we outline habits that regulate our nervous systems and model healthy adulthood. Tools like play therapy and parent coaching are framed as provision, not salvation, aligning evidence-based strategies with a faith that remains front and center. If you’ve felt torn between brain-wise approaches and your convictions, this conversation will help you see how they braid together—firm values, soft hearts, steady leadership.
If this resonated, share it with a friend, leave a review so other foster and adoptive parents can find it, and subscribe for more faith-filled, trauma-informed conversations that strengthen your home.
Links for Kristin:
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@teamfinallyhome
Instagram: https://instagram.com/teamfinallyhome
Facebook: https://facebook.com/finallyhome.net
Family Journey Show https://finallyhome.net/category/family-journey-show/
Connect with me on Instagram:
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well Podcast,
where we have real, candid,faith-filled conversations about
all things foster care,adoption, and trauma.
I'm your host, Nicole T.
Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach, and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
(00:29):
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance, and
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell.
So let's jump in.
(01:19):
I've been thinking a lot latelyabout the power of small habits,
the little daily disciplinesthat shape who we become.
The Lord has really beenpressing on that, on my heart.
Um, so whether it's opening ourBibles first thing in the
morning or committing to moveour bodies, even when it feels
hard.
Y'all, yesterday I did not wantto do my workout.
(01:41):
Um, but these simple practicesbuild strength and resilience
over time.
They're not flashy, but they'refaithful.
And faithfulness, day in and dayout, is what really transforms
us.
That's why I'm so excited abouttoday's conversation.
I'm joined by Kristen Orphan,who alongside her husband has
(02:01):
walked more than 30 years ofmarriage and parenting,
including welcoming two of theirfour children through foster
care.
Out of their personal journeyand the lessons God taught them
along the way, they foundedFinally Home in 2008.
Finally Home is now a nationalnonprofit organization that
(02:22):
provides education,encouragement, and support for
foster, adoptive, and kinshipfamilies.
Kristen brings such a uniqueperspective on how
trauma-informed parenting andour faith actually go hand in
hand, not in separate boxes, butreally woven together.
Today we're digging into how Godequips us through both his word
(02:45):
and practical wisdom so that wecan parent well in the midst of
hard things.
Let's jump in, you guys.
I know you're gonna love thisconversation.
Well, hi, Kristen.
Welcome to the show.
Why don't you tell listeners alittle bit about yourself and
what you do?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Well, thank you, Nicole.
I'm so excited to be here.
Um, well, I at the um heart ofthe matter, I am a mom and a
wife.
Um, I have been married to myhusband for going on 33 years,
and we have four adult children,um, two of whom joined our
family through um private fostercare and kinship care.
(03:25):
And um we also are the legalguardians to my husband's
younger brother who'sdevelopmentally disabled.
He is in his 40s now.
So that's a little bit about uspersonally.
Um, in terms of what I do, as aresult of our personal journey.
Um, I felt a distinct call on myheart way back in about 2007
(03:49):
that God was calling us toencourage other foster adoptive
and kinship families.
And that just set us on a courseof identifying what it is
honestly, first and foremost,what were we struggling in?
And that had a lot to do withfeeling discouraged,
ill-equipped.
Um, and so that's that's beenthe heart of all that we've
done, whether it was me pursuinghigher education, um,
(04:13):
establishing trainings andconnection points and for
families.
Um, that is what that's what wedo to this day is truly try to
encourage people and to remindthem that God did call them,
call us to this, and that heprovides what we need.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
That's amazing.
Um, I will congratulate you onlaunching adults into the world.
We are in a season where we havea couple that are entering
adulthood or starting thatstage.
They're our oldest is 22.
We have a 19-year-old and an18-year-old that are all
starting to get into the world.
(04:51):
And that is no easy feat.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Well, you know what?
It's funny.
I often say that is perhaps thetime of life that you feel the
most like, wait a minute, whatnobody talks about this.
You know, we were learning a lotabout how to raise up our kids
and and all of those things.
But that boy, that time ofadulthood, all of a sudden
(05:15):
you're like, wait a minute, weneed to talk more about this.
Because launching, you know,that actually Nicole comes in a
lot of different forms and andsome uh bounce backs and and all
of those good things.
But yeah, we do.
We have a 28-year-old, a27-year-old, uh, 26 and 22.
And as I said, mybrother-in-law, who's in his
(05:35):
40s, uh, so it does, it looks sodifferent.
And it is the thing that we go,oh, okay.
There aren't quite as many bookson this.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
I know.
Nobody tells us about, nobodytells us.
I think, you know, when we'repregnant, we're reading all the
books about pregnancy.
And in in the baby years and inthe toddler years, we're reading
all the things, and there's allthese motherhood books for the
early years, but it's likenobody really talks about the
later teenager and enteringadulthood, especially for kids
(06:04):
that have a trauma history.
Um, we have seen, especially inone of ours, that had no issues.
I mean, we've had no issues allalong the way, and we get to
this spot and we're like, oh,this isn't as seamless as we
thought, you know, as we thoughtit would be.
So, um, so yeah, I mean, it isit is a challenge for sure.
(06:29):
We we definitely have umstruggled a little bit in this
season.
So, I mean, I I congratulate youfor navigating all of those,
those things, whatever it lookslike, you know, because I do
think that part of learningabout that stage of life is kind
of changing our expectationsabout what all of that looks
(06:51):
like.
SPEAKER_02 (06:51):
That's right.
With the number one expectationthat, you know, when they turn
18, job done.
Um, that is not true.
The job is not done, and youcontinue.
And you're right.
I like your wording, navigatingit, because that's that's what
we do.
We navigate it, we payattention, we say, Oh, oh, okay,
well, this now is what theyneed.
And then we learn how how toprovide that and and walk the
(07:14):
balance of empowering themwithout enabling.
I mean, it is, it's it's adance, and it like every other
season in life and parenting, itis really being led and bringing
everything to the Lord becausewe don't know what we don't
know.
Um and it is always aboutidentifying what is the need,
(07:37):
how do I meet that need in themost healthy way, and how do I
access, uh, help them todiscover other resources and
places.
Because that's what we're doingwith our young adults, right?
Is we're trying to teach themhow to get help because we we
have oftentimes been theirprimary source and um maybe even
(08:02):
a funnel of accessing othersupports, whether that's suit
therapies or whatever.
But when they become these youngadults into adulthood, it isn't
that they no longer have some oftheir special needs.
It is that we have a job toteach them how to advocate for
themselves and to access.
(08:23):
And so to young parentslistening, I would say that
start that um start that processearly, teaching kids how to
speak up for themselves and gethelp because ultimately that is
one of the key um learnings isthat there are some of these
things that our kids who becomeadults will need for the rest of
(08:44):
their lives, extra supports,whatever it is.
And teaching them to do that forthemselves.
It's not a matter of shame.
It's not a finish line thatsays, oh, all my uh, you know,
unique needs or whatever it isare over.
That is not reality.
Rather, how do we empower themto discover and to access those
things for themselves?
(09:05):
I mean, that may be the biggestum learning that we, you know,
for families like ours.
Um certainly every human needsto learn how to advocate for
themselves.
But of course, as we know, ourkids possibly even more.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Yeah, that is a great tip for parents, um, all
the way up, right?
To start that early, as yousaid, just kind of helping our
kids understand their needs andto be able to speak up to
advocate for themselves.
Well, today we're talking abouttrauma-informed parenting and
more specifically how it alignswith our faith.
(09:41):
Because I thought I think it'sso important for parents to be
able to navigate trauma-informedparenting and faith-filled
parenting together and really umtalking about what that looks
like.
So tell us what what istrauma-informed parenting?
How is it different from moretraditional parenting methods?
SPEAKER_02 (10:03):
Sure.
I I think that I like I like touse simple terms because that's
what I can wrap my mind around.
And of course, I'll just saythat my response will be, you
know, contributing to all of theother great wisdom that's out
there.
For me, it really was and isabout taking into account um the
experiences, whether rememberedor not, acknowledging the fact
(10:27):
that traumatic experiences ofneglect, abuse, loss, bro, you
know, so expanding the conceptof trauma without, you know,
watering it down, butacknowledging that it's it's
something that has harmed us orharmed someone in a significant
way that requires specializedprocessing, acknowledgement,
(10:50):
honoring.
So again, that can be the griefof and the loss, the actual
substance impact, you know,whether it's in utero, uh drug
use, alcohol use, those sorts ofthings, uh physical abuse,
emotional abuse, those thingsthat we cannot without
intervention of some kind, ourbrains get stuck.
(11:13):
Okay, so the it's the stucknessfor us or those we love that
then has to be taken intoaccount.
And so parenting in atrauma-informed way is first
acknowledging what trauma is andalso then saying, my parenting
needs to come from a place ofcompassion and honoring that
(11:36):
there were experiences that needto be addressed, often come in
the form of then deficits thatneed to be filled up and that I
need to take into account as Iam honoring my, you know, my
values.
And so we're gonna talk aboutthat when we talk about
faith-informed trauma parenting.
It's I I'm gonna acknowledgesomething and say, uh align, you
(11:59):
know, in a way that aligns withmy faith and my values and my
the outcomes I believe are rightand good for this child.
I'm going to speak to them in away that um acknowledges where
they're starting from.
And and uh, and so it doesn't,you know, trauma-informed
parenting doesn't change wherewe are heading and what our out
(12:24):
our desired outcomes are forthat child or for our family, it
does uh inform the tools we needalong the way.
You know, I often say it's amap.
And when we take into account,let's say we're going on a road
trip, we have to take intoaccount where we're starting and
where we want to end up.
And then along the way, whatwhat do we need?
(12:44):
If we have a child that's uh ina wheelchair, we're gonna need
special tools and we're gonnaneed special equipment.
So really that's what I meanwhen I say trauma informed.
I'm I'm acknowledging where do Istart and how and what extra
tools do I need to get to whereI want to go.
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
Yeah, that's that's so good.
Such a good perspective toreally think about our journey
is just going to look differentbecause the needs are are
different along the way basedoff of their past experiences
and really taking all of thatinto account, which sounds
amazingly aligned with ourfaith, right?
(13:24):
Having this compassion for kidsand their experiences and kind
of meeting them in that placesounds very Jesus-like.
And so, why would people saythat trauma-informed parenting?
Because I've heard it thattrauma-informed parenting
doesn't align with biblicalparenting.
(13:46):
So, how would you respond tothat?
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Yeah, that's great.
There are a couple things thatcome to mind as we're having
this conversation, and one isthat sometimes I think some of
us thought that everythingneeded to change.
Now all my sources aredifferent.
Like all of a sudden, oh, somaybe you know, some of us
start, and and I do think thishas changed over the last couple
(14:11):
of decades, but maybe at firstit was I'm welcoming children
into my home.
They're coming along and they'regonna join in how because the
gift that we're giving them iswho we are as people of faith.
We're gonna raise them as wewere raised or as we believe
that a biblical family lookslike.
(14:31):
So there, and then maybe there'ssome resistance at first to
that.
That no, they've they've got toline up with me in all the ways
of traditional parenting.
Like they're they're coming intothis, and this is what I'm
giving them.
And in our mindset, we'rethinking that that nope, they're
coming in and they're fittinginto us.
Then maybe after a lot ofbumping our heads and realizing
(14:52):
that is not working, we go tothe complete opposite extreme.
Yeah.
We think now we've got to changeall of our goals, all of our,
you know, our destination, as Ijust said, like everything now
has to change.
It's it's it's an either, oh,now I'm trauma-informed
parenting.
That's that's the opposite oftraditional parenting.
(15:13):
And and that may be true, butit's not the opposite of
biblical parenting.
Okay.
It is really making sure that weare um realizing what we're
really seeing.
And what you've said, Nicole, iswe're with the love of Christ,
meeting people where they are,which is what Jesus did.
So it is not the opposite.
(15:35):
Our habits may be different.
Just, you know, think of it interms of applying a different
culture, but our values do notchange.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:44):
The principles of what people need and where
they're heading, it's just thatthe tools and the skills we need
to take them on that road oflearning to follow Jesus, of
learning to honor authority andto respect authority comes with,
as you've said, compassion,meeting them where they're at
and not expecting thetraditional disciplines and
(16:06):
parenting to work at especiallyat first.
But those are not traditionalparenting is not necessarily
biblical parenting.
And that to she reshape whatwe're saying, yeah, and really
stop and think.
And so some people might thinkthat it's opposed because
they've misunderstood culturaltraditional parenting as
(16:30):
synonymous with biblicalparenting.
That may be the very first thingthat we say um it is is probably
the rub, and we've got toreshape that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
I I completely agree um with with all of that stuff.
And I love how you talk about,you know, when kids come in, a
lot of times we're expectingthem to kind of fit our norm and
just obey.
Well, in the same way thatunbelievers aren't going to
(17:04):
choose to obey the laws of God,they don't believe in God,
right?
They don't trust God, they don'tbelieve that God is good and for
them.
So they're not gonna follow hiscommands.
God says, if you love me, youwill follow my commands.
Um the same way, if our kidsdon't trust us, if they don't
come in, they're notautomatically just going to
(17:26):
respect that authority becausewe say we're the authority.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
That is so true.
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
As much as we want that to be the case.
SPEAKER_02 (17:36):
Yes, and and also we can feel like a failure because
we're looking at the Bible andwe're saying, you know, it says,
Children obey your parents.
Oh, our children are not obeyingus, so we must be failing.
And yet, what we see in JesusChrist goes to the earth and
meets us where we are at whilewe were still sinners.
Christ died for us.
(17:57):
Yeah, He comes to us, not theother way around.
And so then we have a choice, ofcourse.
And that we, you know, that'sabout once you know our kids
become older and we begin toempower them to find the help.
All of that is so aligned.
But, you know, back to thisgoing to where they are at, you
know, the thing, let you know,let's talk a little bit about
what the Bible does say.
(18:18):
Um, you know, we we do believein authoritative parenting,
which is that parents are incharge.
And, you know, at Finally Home,we teach that parents have two
jobs to be leaders and models.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
And leaders are in charge.
They and what we say always isthat that does not mean your
kids always do what you say.
That means that you set thecourse for what the rules are,
what the and those rules arebased in values, not arbitrary
do's or don'ts.
And so there are values that weset, like honesty.
(18:51):
Um, we, you know, and and theBible does, um, as believers,
the Bible does inform ourvalues.
Yeah.
So going, you know, so gatheringtogether as adults and saying
what is important to us andidentifying those values, and
then making rules that supportthose values, and then teaching
our kids how to follow thosevalues by giving them, you know,
(19:15):
consequences and and um rewards,but also realizing that that
value of honesty looks differentfor a four-year-old, uh, an
eight-year-old, a 10-year-old,et cetera.
And that we are taking intoaccount not just chronological
age with our kids who've beenthrough trauma, but we're
actually looking at theirdevelopment.
(19:36):
And so we're really we'rewalking along.
So our values aren't changing,like, oh, well, I guess lying is
okay.
No, we say truth is important,and then we just walk alongside.
So we're holding things up.
We're just having to be verycreative, very, you know,
walking alongside, getting lotsof advisors on how do we
(19:57):
continue to hold up standardswithin compassion and chance
after chance um to help, youknow, helping helping our kids
along the way heal.
I mean, ultimately that iswhat's happening too, right?
Yes, that they're healing andwe're pouring into deficits.
Um, so traditional parentingoften um, as we know, um is
(20:21):
asking kids, you know, to meet astandard, and then we're, you
know, providing discipline andpunishment when they don't.
And yet what we do realize withum when we say parents as
leaders and models is that wetraditional parents parenting
assumes a relationship of trust.
SPEAKER_03 (20:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
And so that's probably the biggest learning
for families like ours is thatyou know, we've got to make sure
that we build the relationship.
It doesn't happen just because achild enters our home.
And that that's the thing that'scatching up, that then
ultimately we hope gives us thattrust that allows the authority
(21:00):
to really become a healthything.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Yes, yes, to all of that.
There, there's something elsewhen you were talking about that
Ephesians 6, right, that sayschildren should obey their
parents and the Lord, for thisis right, right?
But it also says fathers shouldnot provoke your children to
anger.
And I think a lot of times weskip over that part because it's
easy to look at theresponsibilities of somebody
(21:25):
else, but not at ours.
And but knowing what we knowabout trauma, right?
We know that our kids withprevious trauma histories, with
a lack of trust, are more easilyprovoked into that fight,
flight, or freeze response,which does come out as anger a
lot of times, right?
And so our responsibility inthat biblical parenting is just
(21:50):
what you were saying.
We still uphold those values,but the way we do it has to be
different based on theirhistory.
And so taking that into account,as if we are gonna be uh
obedient to what the Lord hascalled us to, then we have to
change the way that we go aboutthings in order to not provoke
(22:10):
that child to anger.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
That is so true.
And and I think that is such agreat reminder, provoke, because
we've all been there where westart to um push and push and
put our foot down and realizethat it is having the opposite
effect, and yet we have a hardtime telling ourselves to stop.
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
Yes, yes, yes, and me every day.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
That is me every day.
In our heads, we're going, thisis not working, but I'm too far
in.
Um, that is wisdom, and that isself-control, and that's
leadership being and that's oneof the things we tell families
is part of being a leader isstaying in charge of yourself
and your own emotions because weget triggered and we get hooked,
and we are seeing that this isnot wise.
(22:58):
I am provoking, and and and it'snot helpful.
SPEAKER_03 (23:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Uh, that's the other thing is, you know, the Lord
shows us it's it's a matter ofsaying, oh Lord, help me stop
because I am so far in and I amlike saying, I want this child
to obey me now, and we're havingthe tantrum.
Um, so I love that you connectedthat in because provoking is the
perfect word when we realizethat um it is to stop.
(23:27):
So again, I just say, you know,our values are the same.
How we go on that journey, it isdifferent because we're going to
our child and we're saying, letme take you there.
Um, and it is a lot morecomplicated than any of us ever
imagined when we start thejourney.
SPEAKER_00 (23:46):
Yeah.
So what does that look like?
How do we walk our kids um in away that helps them trust us,
helps them be connected to us,but also ultimately helps them
know and trust Jesus.
SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
Yeah, that is so what a wonderful.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
I mean, that is a big question, right?
And and I don't know that Imean, I know all of us would
just love to like throw down ananswer and say, here's the
handbook, here's how your kidswill know and trust Jesus.
SPEAKER_02 (24:18):
Well, so the first thing I'm gonna say, because I
love that, is like, could wefind someone that would give us
that answer, Nicole?
Um well, first and foremost, thething I think about is John 15
about remaining in the vine.
So parents, there we don't havea handbook because we are made
to rely fully on the HolySpirit, yeah, Jesus Christ in us
(24:39):
every single day.
We have the wisdom of Christ inus, we have the power of Christ.
We are promised, you know, thepower of Christ on a daily
basis.
We are we are promised um hislife and his energy.
You know, Paul talks about in umColossians about the energy that
works so powerfully in him, youknow, as he's struggling, you
(24:59):
know, to serve the church and tospread the gospel.
So, first and foremost, therelease uh the lie that we will
have a formula or a map.
And and most of us listeningwould have more um maturity than
to think that.
But I I will say, so before I Imake some comments on that, is
that I know I personally beatmyself up a lot over the the
(25:21):
years that I wasn't better,smarter, wiser, had the answer,
or oops, I got really upset andnow I'm acting like a toddler.
Um, so there's there's a lot ofshame that can come.
And of course, our enemy wouldlove that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
You know, this thing we step into is God-sized.
Um, and yet it's not without,you know, hope that we do find
skills, many advisors, um,learning, you know, listening to
podcasts like this.
Um, so I mean, generallyspeaking, let me talk about some
of the things that have beenreally important to my husband
and I and our family along theway.
(25:59):
Um, is that I do believe that,you know, we do everything as
unto the Lord.
So we do pursue wisdom.
Um, we do pursue people who arefurther down the journey than us
who've learned, learned somethings.
We do learn that that thisbuilding of a relationship is
not counter to biblicalparenting.
(26:19):
It actually is, you know,loving.
Um, it is, you know, we we aremeant to love and to serve and
to lay our lives down.
And so, you know, don't for onemoment think that the time you
spend connecting and pouring in,even when your child has been
incredibly disobedient, um, thatis not counter to your job.
(26:40):
It is part of your job.
And what we find that feelscounterintuitive to us is the
more we connect and pour in andmeet our kids where they're at,
the more they begin to soften upand they do begin to cooperate
in little bites and pieces.
So we do flip that tradition umover, you know, we do flip it
(27:03):
over um opposite in the thepoor.
I remember those days where, andwe advise parents that where you
do feel like it is just aconstant correction, correction,
correction, correction that isimportant.
And stopping and pausing um andnot considering time together
playing as a reward, um, youknow, and not and not wanting to
(27:26):
reward, you know, bad behavior.
That that's hard.
I mean, the last thing you wantto do is connect with a child
who is just opposing, opposing,and yet it is what they need and
often what we need in ourhearts.
So that's one thing is to setyourself free that to think that
relationship, playing, ofcourse, you know, none of us
(27:47):
would say we want to withholdrelationship as a punishment,
but you know, we would say thatit's hard to sit and play with a
child who has been reallydifficult.
SPEAKER_03 (27:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
And yet it is like that connection and that love,
that unconditional pouring in,playing on their terms.
So that's one key, you know.
And I'm picturing in my head allthe times, all the different
years that I did just crazythings, you know, whether it was
playing, you know, with fingerpaints on all on our bodies or
you know, pudding or whatever,you're like things that I think,
(28:19):
oh my goodness, if people sawwhat we were doing, um, they
would think we were cray cray.
And and I was thinking we were,but it's like whatever it takes.
Okay.
So, so play, um, connection,loving, um, no matter what is
going on, um, reading the book,don't use those things as a
reward.
Um, unless it's extra time,that's okay.
(28:42):
You know, extra, extra timethat's really special, can be
used as the result um of uh, youknow, good choices that can be.
But the the baseline always,always connecting, yeah, um,
getting outside help, um,learning, you know, like just
soaking that in, finding trustedpeople.
(29:02):
So both peers in terms of peoplewho are doing this journey with
us, and of course, you know, Ilearned so much just sitting in
and observing play therapy.
Yeah.
I learned so much learning howto talk about certain things,
um, and mimicking the thatlanguage.
Um, and of course, always docontinuing to do the things that
(29:26):
are important to you.
You know, we say that parentshave to, you know, everybody in
the family has um is, you know,is somebody.
We say be somebody and belong.
So, you know, I know we talk alot about self-care.
Um, don't put it off.
Um, but that can start to getreally like, oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I'm supposed to put the oxygenon me first.
(29:48):
Well, let me just break it downa little bit simpler.
Don't forget who you are andwhat you enjoy doing, and that
you too are someone's child, youknow, that you belong to the
king.
And he loves.
Loves you and he gave youhobbies and desires.
And you know, you have tonurture those things and not
just for yourself, but to model,you know, like yes, we lay down
(30:10):
our lives, but again, you know,young adults need to realize
that they are not the center ofthe universe, and that, you
know, mom and dad have thingsthat they are going to continue
to grow and learn and nurturethemselves.
So, you know, just boil some ofthose things down.
Play and connect with your kidseven when they have been really
(30:32):
awful.
Um, get, you know, lots ofoutside help.
Um, and take care of yourself inways that recognize that I
matter.
Yeah.
You know, it's incrediblydestructive when we get
swallowed up um in our families.
And it really is destructive foreverybody.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Yeah, we talk a lot on this podcast uh about
self-care.
So I work as a health andwellness coach for foster and
adoptive parents.
And because I've just seen itwreck families, I've seen it
wreck lives when even my ownlife, when we do neglect
(31:14):
ourselves.
And I think part of the way thatwe need to look at self-care is
it's our equipping, ourequipping to do the things that
we are supposed to do.
It's not being selfish becausewe're not, I do think culture
has hijacked the word self-care.
And so a lot of times the waythe world speaks of self-care is
self-indulgence.
(31:34):
Um, but but if we're doing trueself-care, if we're eating
right, if we're exercising, ifwe're in the word, we're in
prayer, we're really um in ourspiritual disciplines and stuff
like that, really equippingourselves.
We're equipping ourselves to doour job well, to fulfill our
purpose well.
And without that, we can't.
SPEAKER_02 (31:56):
That's exactly right.
And I that what a greatdifferentiation between
self-indulgence and self-care.
It's part of the responsibilitywe have for stewarding
ourselves.
Yeah.
Um, it also, like I said, andsometimes this is what helps
people push push them over theedge because we're we get stuck
and it's all about our kids,it's all about our kids, is just
(32:17):
this idea we're also modelingthat.
That's a healthy life.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
And ultimately we we are raising up people to launch
into the world and live healthylives.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
Yes.
I've been doing a bunch of umstudies on spiritual
disciplines.
And one of the things that keepscoming up over and over again is
that we are body, soul, andspirit, or body, mind, and
spirit, and that they are allconnected.
They're not separate.
And so when you neglect onepart, you neglect the whole.
(32:50):
And so really looking at takingcare of our bodies, taking care
of our spiritual selves, takingcare of our minds, like as one
holistic thing that helps us dothe things that we're supposed
to do.
SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
And we have to feed our brain, you know, with the
good things like you weretalking about.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
If we are to tell ourselves no when we are
starting to provoke our kids.
I mean, yeah, I don't know aboutyou, but I mean, I I at
different times was so strungout on stress that, you know, I
I was just on the edge, youknow, all of the time.
And um, we have to, we havelimits and and we cannot just
(33:27):
run on uh empty.
And and part of I think thereason not only do we get just
swallowed up in, well, we gottafix our kids, save our kids,
whatever, which by the way,there's just no um expiration to
that.
There's no finish line to that.
Yes.
And that's that's one of thelies I think that young parents
think, well, you know what?
I can I can sacrifice all of,and believe me, they're
(33:51):
sacrificed, but I can sacrificemy own health in every domain
that you mentioned becausethere's going to be a point
where they're gonna be okay, andthen I'll go.
And that's not the way lifeworks.
Then I'll do myself, then I'llgo take a break, then I'll go be
with my husband.
Yeah.
Um, none of that is actuallytrue or reality.
(34:13):
So we have to be doing it allalong the way.
Um, and that's a oh wow, if wecan learn that sooner rather
than later.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Amen.
Amen.
So, what does success look likethen, right?
If there's not a finish line,how do we know we're doing what
we're supposed to do?
SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
Well, I think it does start with looking in the
mirror and saying, How am Idoing?
Am I loving?
Am I growing in Christ everyday?
Yeah.
I am um, I mean, that to me, amI am I able to regulate myself?
(34:56):
Am I am I living with the fruitsof the spirit because I'm
inviting the Holy Spirit?
I mean, because really all ofour kids ultimately have a
choice of how how they're gonnalive.
I mean, that's that's the otherthing too, Nicole, is that as
you get older, um, I'm older,um, you realize that I am uh my
(35:23):
children will I'm setting themup to make to know what it's
like to live a good life.
And that means to live life inChrist.
Okay.
Right.
But everybody has a choice tomake.
SPEAKER_00 (35:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (35:35):
And I can't make that choice for them.
So I'm setting the table throughmodeling, through the guidelines
and boundaries I set in my homethat, you know, and I've said it
a thousand times to my kids likehere, here's I'm setting forth
to you, like, this is the waythat's right and good.
And you get to decide whetheryou're gonna live in that.
Okay.
(35:55):
And of course, while you're inmy home, there'll be
consequences and and benefitsand all of the things that come
along with that.
But that's that's childish,okay?
Right.
Things that I'm doing for you.
And then over time, you'lldecide whether you internalize
those things or not, and realizethat the real benefit is the
life, you know, you're living anabundant life.
But you get to decide, and somewill have to learn the hard way,
(36:18):
etc.
So I honestly have to answerthat question by how is my life?
How are my relationships?
How's my marriage?
How am I thriving in the Lord?
Because if I look at theexternal, now, of course, when
our kids are in our home, it'swhat is family life looking
like?
Am I getting getting, you know,there's a lot of chaos, but are
(36:41):
we able to honor our values?
And, you know, I'm thinking alot, even in terms of all of the
outside help we need sometimes,you know, for my husband to get
out when things were just crazy,husband and I to get out on
dates and stuff, that usuallymeant every single kid went
somewhere different.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
I couldn't do the traditional have a babysitter
come here, you know.
So it's like, am I gonna, youknow, doing the work that I can
do to honor my values?
Is my marriage growing?
Is my relationship with the Lordgrowing?
I mean, honestly, I I thinkthat's the best way I can answer
it because I don't get to makeall of I don't get to choose
(37:23):
what my kids will ultimatelychoose.
Um I will say that we are seeingbeautiful fruit in um most of
our children's lives right now.
Yeah.
That we still have uh we stillhave one that is needing to
(37:44):
learn some things the hard way,but I just have to look and say,
I am really in love with myhusband.
I love the Lord.
Um, I am getting to see thebenefits of my children who I
have a child getting married in10 days.
Oh, that's amazing.
It is, and and I and so um, andmy eldest had um his first baby
(38:06):
four months ago.
I had my first grandchild.
Oh my gosh.
Make no mistake, we we havebeautiful gifts from the Lord,
and um I realized somewherealong the way that yeah, I mean,
there's fruit to the choices wemake in parenting and our kids
still have free will.
(38:28):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
Absolutely.
Well, I appreciate that answerin looking at ourselves.
I mean, I know even with myyounger kids and parenting them
now, my hardest nights.
So I have plenty of nights whereI don't sleep because thoughts
just race in my mind, but myhardest nights are when I mess
(38:49):
up, not when my kids mess up,right?
Because my responsibility is forme.
And so I need to be in controland have self-control and and
the fruit of the spirit and me,relying on that spirit to work
through me versus trying to um,you know, I love your analogy or
(39:11):
your your thought to step backwhen when we realize we're going
too far.
Because I think a lot of timesas parents, we don't give
ourselves permission to stepback once we set on a path,
right?
If we're going, if we're goingat it full force, then we feel
like we're committed and we haveto like see it through.
And I think giving ourselvespermission to step back so that
(39:35):
we are honoring the Lord and weare we are staying true to the
values and the things that wethink are really important, I
think is huge.
Um, and you know what?
I mean, I was a child in youngadulthood that went very far
astray.
And and I now am superpassionate about the Lord.
So we don't know how the Lord'sgonna use hard seasons in our
(39:59):
kids' lives.
I heard something one time thatsaid you can't um save your kids
from their testimony.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
And and just really kind of releasing, like our kids
may have to make some mistakesin adulthood.
Like how they're doing incollege life or young adulthood
is not necessarily always howthey've been parented.
It's not always whether they'rea good kid or a bad kid or, you
know, all of those traditionalthings.
I do think sometimes in thechurch, though, that there is a
(40:30):
lot of pressure for your kids tolive up to a certain standard as
a reflection of you.
And so I think we are a lot oftimes really likely to base our
parenting and what we feel likewe need to do in order to try to
control a certain outcome sothat we look like we're supposed
(40:53):
to look in the church.
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
It's true.
It's a lie.
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
Amen to that.
I am to that.
I mean, it just I think there'sso much freedom in releasing
that.
SPEAKER_02 (41:07):
Right.
There's, you know, what we, youknow, I've heard a lot, I'm sure
you have to, you know, Proverbstrain up a child in the way they
should go.
And when they're old, they willnot depart from it.
You know, what we have toremember about Proverbs is it's
not a promise, they'reprinciples of life.
Yeah, that most of the time thisis what happens.
And so I do agree that there,there are, you know, there,
(41:30):
there's fruit to good, kind,loving parenting, and there's
free will.
And it's a dangerous thing tobase your identity, your
success, um, on uh how your youknow, kids turn out, quote
unquote, because um it's thesame that, you know, when they
(41:54):
make good choices, you know,that also isn't like, oh, look
at me.
You know, that's some of theworst books are when people
raise like one or two kids andthey now they're telling you
exactly how to, you know, raiseyour kids because it works for
them.
And I mean, there's just so manycontributing factors.
So, yes, there's fruit to good,wise, biblical, loving.
And and when I say biblical,because I do want to be, you
(42:15):
know, clear that we wemisunderstood.
So just to repeat what you and Ihave already said, it's
compassionate, loving,value-based, guiding, teaching,
servant-like parenting.
Um, that's that's biblical umparenting, that we we're meeting
our kids where they're at, andwe're continuing to set a
(42:37):
standard.
And what that looks like in theformula really requires a lot of
advisors.
So that that first and foremost,but we just have to be very,
very cautious that we arelooking at our kids to prove,
you know, our worth or ourvalue.
And and I also I just want toacknowledge what you said about
the you know, your hardest onyourself.
(42:59):
We have to also the this journeygive ourselves a lot of grace
because that the Lord is pouringhis grace on us.
Yeah, um, this is like, youknow, this journey brought out
my worst qualities.
Okay.
Yes.
Which is so very, very confusingwhen you're like, I'm doing this
(43:20):
good thing.
Yes.
And then that good thing likebrings out, you know, it's like
all the garbage comes up fromthe bottom because things
boiled.
Um, that's when you go, oh Lord,that's my testimony.
My testimony is I said yes, hadno idea this would actually
shine a light on the things thatthe Lord needed to heal in me or
(43:44):
fine in me.
But when I realized, when Istopped the death grip hold on,
I'm doing this good thing, andand that partly contributed to
the I'm provoking them becauseI'm I will control, you know, I
will control this and fix thiskid.
Um, when I was set was was setfree from that, and I just went,
(44:06):
Lord, I I don't I opened myhands and and acknowledged, you
know, my limits, my pain, my umwhat I needed to learn and and
with humility and also said,Lord, um, this is only going to,
I can only literally survivethis in you.
I mean, that's when thebeautiful fruit began to happen
in my own life.
I mean, that's when I justrejoice in the Lord because I
(44:29):
think without that, I probablywould have gone a lot longer in
my life thinking I needed toperform, have a certain, have my
kids have a certain image,thinking I needed to control and
fix.
And that really I had if if Iwas truly, truly honest, it was
that God was over here tellingme, you go do these good things
and then come back and report tome.
(44:51):
And that's not it.
He's with us.
And when we say, Oh Lord, I, youknow, I lost it today, or I I
did this, or I don't even knowwhat to do about this.
I mean, and just a loud, like,who cares what other people
think?
I mean, what a freeing, yes,freeing place to be.
And that's when I felt like theLord was like, Yeah, you get it.
SPEAKER_00 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah, but you do see a lot of your darkness,
and so it makes you feel moreexposed.
And and that is not that is notfun.
In in Numbers 11, Moses iscrying out to God, right?
And he's leading theseIsraelites, and they're
complaining and they're hard,and he's struggling to lead
(45:35):
them, and he's under a whole lotof stress, and he looks at God
and says, you know, why did yougive me these people?
I can't do this.
But but towards the end, hesays, I it's this is too hard.
I am seeing my own wretchedness.
And and I was like, Oh, Lord,that's it.
I see my own dirty, and I don'tlike that.
(45:57):
I don't like that part.
I like going about my littlesuburban life, you know.
Before we got into this journey,I just went about life and
everything seemed fine.
Like everything just I fit thatchurch norm, you know, and our
family kind of fit that pictureand it just was.
(46:18):
Everything was good.
But when I started, when my ownstuff started to come out, but
the thing is is God was usingall of that, all of that to kind
of work work some of that out ofme, but also to work within it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:34):
Well, I like it because that stuff was already
there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We just didn't see it.
We just didn't have the pressurethat would require that, you
know, I acknowledge it.
And so I do consider that agift.
Yes.
Um, and that's something, yeah,just to for for people to you
you use the word exposed.
(46:55):
And for families like ours,we're exposed to a lot.
I mean, we're exposed to thesystem where our our homes
literally like we are exposed.
I don't like being exposedeither.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
And I'm also I'm gonna remember, like, you know,
what you just said.
Why did you give me thesepeople?
Uh, how many times have I saidin my heart, why did you give me
these children?
SPEAKER_00 (47:17):
Oh, listen, go back and read that chapter because he
literally says, Why did you giveme these people?
I did not birth them.
And um, and he talks throughjust how hard it is.
And the thing is, is he's notreally talking about them.
Like he's talking about hit hisability to lead them well and
(47:38):
how he's seeing his own dirt andhis own mess as he tries to lead
these people really, reallywell.
Um, but it it is a veryinteresting chapter.
I'm telling you, the Lord usedthat, that, those verses to
really shift my wholeperspective about what we were,
(47:58):
what we were doing.
Um, because I had gotten veryprideful, like and and had the
idea, like I got this.
This is and and okay, Lord,you've given me this assignment
and I'm gonna take it and run.
Versus like what you weretalking about and him being a
partner with us, him moving withus and in us and everything that
(48:20):
we do.
SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
I love it.
I love it.
And then that does set us freeto get the skills and the tools
that we need.
Yes.
We're just approaching itdifferently.
We're we're approaching it notas their salvation, but as tools
to help us to do the job we'vebeen called to do.
And that's the thing, too.
I I think would I would remindus all that you know there's
(48:45):
nothing magic in the toolfinding the right tool or skill.
It's what we do as unto theLord.
It's like we're walking alongand we're like, oh, we're
pursuing because that is inthat's how we do this as unto
the Lord.
And so we don't need to beafraid of it as people of faith
that to find the tool or the youknow, the therapy or whatever.
It's the it it's all of thosethings are what help us along
(49:09):
the journey.
You know, it's yeah, it's themanna in the desert.
It's the, you know, it's theprovision.
It's not our God, um, but it ishis provision.
And so we bathe everything inprayer and and that in that way,
kind of coming back full circleto this conversation, it's not
in opposition.
We have our values, they'rebiblically aligned.
(49:31):
We're doing this in Christ, notlike you said or I said, like,
okay, go do this assignment.
And and I chose you becauseyou're super strong and super
smart.
Um opposite, and that's wherethe shame comes.
Because when we realize that webelieved something like that,
yeah, then then we go, oh dear.
(49:52):
And now you, you know, why didyou choose me?
Because I thought you chose mebecause I was great and smart
and whatever, you know, we wouldnever admit that.
But that's where all the shameand the love.
Um, but we we align those thingsand then we're not afraid.
We're not afraid when we see,you know, research is aligning
that this is what kids need.
(50:12):
Oh, this is what Jesus taught.
So we're not now there arethings that go beyond and then
um, you know, that that we knowin our hearts or when we seek
advice, like that doesn't alignwith our faith.
That that's not true.
There are plenty of things outthere that aren't true.
But we when we are walking umwith wisdom and advisors and
(50:34):
people who, you know, faithaligned and we're paying
attention to the Bible, we wecan discern those things.
But at the core, um, what we'redoing is trying to love the way
that Jesus loves and to bringour kids to a place of living a
God-honoring life.
SPEAKER_00 (50:52):
That's amazing.
Well, Kristen, this conversationhas been amazing.
Um, where can people find you?
SPEAKER_02 (51:01):
Yes, well, I agree, and what a pleasure to connect
with you.
Um I uh you can find us atfinallyhome.net.
Um, we do exist to encourage andequip uh families like ours.
And so we have a lot ofresources available to you,
online courses, some free uhresources to download and at
(51:23):
the, you know, and at the core,just call us.
We we like we love to talk withfamilies from all over and just
to to show up and to be a partof your team.
Um, we have a whole group offolks who would be just it would
be their greatest privilege todo that.
So reach out and connect with usand let us know how we can serve
(51:46):
you.
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
That's awesome.
I will put all of those links inthe show notes as well so that
people can find you.
But I so appreciate this timewith you.
This conversation was soencouraging to me, and I know it
will be for our listeners aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (52:00):
Well, me as well.
Thank you, Nicole, for theinvitation to and just to get to
know you and to hear uh fromyour wisdom.
I appreciate it.
This has been fun.
SPEAKER_00 (52:09):
Wow, what a gift uh that conversation with Kristen
was.
I love how she reminded us thattrauma-informed parenting and
faith aren't separatecategories, but they're woven
together in how we live, love,and lead our families every
single day.
Before we close, I'd love to askyou a favor.
If this episode encouraged you,would you take just a minute to
(52:32):
leave a review for the FosterParent Well podcast?
Your reviews help other fosterand adoptive parents find this
community and be encouraged too.
Let's pray together as wefinish.
Lord, thank you for the reminderthat you are with us in the hard
and the holy.
Thank you for equipping us withwisdom and strength and
(52:54):
compassion as we parent childrenwho have walked through trauma.
Lord, and thank you for wisewomen like Kristen that have
gone before us that can helplead the way.
Help us to lean on you daily,practicing those small
disciplines that anchor ourhearts in your truth.
And may our homes be placeswhere healing and hope take
(53:17):
root.
Lord, we love you and we trustyou in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well Podcast,
where we have real, candid,faith-filled conversations about
all things foster care,adoption, and trauma.
I'm your host, Nicole T.
Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach, and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
(00:29):
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance, and
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell.
So let's jump in.
(01:19):
I've been thinking a lot latelyabout the power of small habits,
the little daily disciplinesthat shape who we become.
The Lord has really beenpressing on that, on my heart.
Um, so whether it's opening ourBibles first thing in the
morning or committing to moveour bodies, even when it feels
hard.
Y'all, yesterday I did not wantto do my workout.
(01:41):
Um, but these simple practicesbuild strength and resilience
over time.
They're not flashy, but they'refaithful.
And faithfulness, day in and dayout, is what really transforms
us.
That's why I'm so excited abouttoday's conversation.
I'm joined by Kristen Orphan,who alongside her husband has
(02:01):
walked more than 30 years ofmarriage and parenting,
including welcoming two of theirfour children through foster
care.
Out of their personal journeyand the lessons God taught them
along the way, they foundedFinally Home in 2008.
Finally Home is now a nationalnonprofit organization that
(02:22):
provides education,encouragement, and support for
foster, adoptive, and kinshipfamilies.
Kristen brings such a uniqueperspective on how
trauma-informed parenting andour faith actually go hand in
hand, not in separate boxes, butreally woven together.
Today we're digging into how Godequips us through both his word
(02:45):
and practical wisdom so that wecan parent well in the midst of
hard things.
Let's jump in, you guys.
I know you're gonna love thisconversation.
Well, hi, Kristen.
Welcome to the show.
Why don't you tell listeners alittle bit about yourself and
what you do?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Well, thank you, Nicole.
I'm so excited to be here.
Um, well, I at the um heart ofthe matter, I am a mom and a
wife.
Um, I have been married to myhusband for going on 33 years,
and we have four adult children,um, two of whom joined our
family through um private fostercare and kinship care.
(03:25):
And um we also are the legalguardians to my husband's
younger brother who'sdevelopmentally disabled.
He is in his 40s now.
So that's a little bit about uspersonally.
Um, in terms of what I do, as aresult of our personal journey.
Um, I felt a distinct call on myheart way back in about 2007
(03:49):
that God was calling us toencourage other foster adoptive
and kinship families.
And that just set us on a courseof identifying what it is
honestly, first and foremost,what were we struggling in?
And that had a lot to do withfeeling discouraged,
ill-equipped.
Um, and so that's that's beenthe heart of all that we've
done, whether it was me pursuinghigher education, um,
(04:13):
establishing trainings andconnection points and for
families.
Um, that is what that's what wedo to this day is truly try to
encourage people and to remindthem that God did call them,
call us to this, and that heprovides what we need.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
That's amazing.
Um, I will congratulate you onlaunching adults into the world.
We are in a season where we havea couple that are entering
adulthood or starting thatstage.
They're our oldest is 22.
We have a 19-year-old and an18-year-old that are all
starting to get into the world.
(04:51):
And that is no easy feat.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Well, you know what?
It's funny.
I often say that is perhaps thetime of life that you feel the
most like, wait a minute, whatnobody talks about this.
You know, we were learning a lotabout how to raise up our kids
and and all of those things.
But that boy, that time ofadulthood, all of a sudden
(05:15):
you're like, wait a minute, weneed to talk more about this.
Because launching, you know,that actually Nicole comes in a
lot of different forms and andsome uh bounce backs and and all
of those good things.
But yeah, we do.
We have a 28-year-old, a27-year-old, uh, 26 and 22.
And as I said, mybrother-in-law, who's in his
(05:35):
40s, uh, so it does, it looks sodifferent.
And it is the thing that we go,oh, okay.
There aren't quite as many bookson this.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
I know.
Nobody tells us about, nobodytells us.
I think, you know, when we'repregnant, we're reading all the
books about pregnancy.
And in in the baby years and inthe toddler years, we're reading
all the things, and there's allthese motherhood books for the
early years, but it's likenobody really talks about the
later teenager and enteringadulthood, especially for kids
(06:04):
that have a trauma history.
Um, we have seen, especially inone of ours, that had no issues.
I mean, we've had no issues allalong the way, and we get to
this spot and we're like, oh,this isn't as seamless as we
thought, you know, as we thoughtit would be.
So, um, so yeah, I mean, it isit is a challenge for sure.
(06:29):
We we definitely have umstruggled a little bit in this
season.
So, I mean, I I congratulate youfor navigating all of those,
those things, whatever it lookslike, you know, because I do
think that part of learningabout that stage of life is kind
of changing our expectationsabout what all of that looks
(06:51):
like.
SPEAKER_02 (06:51):
That's right.
With the number one expectationthat, you know, when they turn
18, job done.
Um, that is not true.
The job is not done, and youcontinue.
And you're right.
I like your wording, navigatingit, because that's that's what
we do.
We navigate it, we payattention, we say, Oh, oh, okay,
well, this now is what theyneed.
And then we learn how how toprovide that and and walk the
(07:14):
balance of empowering themwithout enabling.
I mean, it is, it's it's adance, and it like every other
season in life and parenting, itis really being led and bringing
everything to the Lord becausewe don't know what we don't
know.
Um and it is always aboutidentifying what is the need,
(07:37):
how do I meet that need in themost healthy way, and how do I
access, uh, help them todiscover other resources and
places.
Because that's what we're doingwith our young adults, right?
Is we're trying to teach themhow to get help because we we
have oftentimes been theirprimary source and um maybe even
(08:02):
a funnel of accessing othersupports, whether that's suit
therapies or whatever.
But when they become these youngadults into adulthood, it isn't
that they no longer have some oftheir special needs.
It is that we have a job toteach them how to advocate for
themselves and to access.
(08:23):
And so to young parentslistening, I would say that
start that um start that processearly, teaching kids how to
speak up for themselves and gethelp because ultimately that is
one of the key um learnings isthat there are some of these
things that our kids who becomeadults will need for the rest of
(08:44):
their lives, extra supports,whatever it is.
And teaching them to do that forthemselves.
It's not a matter of shame.
It's not a finish line thatsays, oh, all my uh, you know,
unique needs or whatever it isare over.
That is not reality.
Rather, how do we empower themto discover and to access those
things for themselves?
(09:05):
I mean, that may be the biggestum learning that we, you know,
for families like ours.
Um certainly every human needsto learn how to advocate for
themselves.
But of course, as we know, ourkids possibly even more.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Yeah, that is a great tip for parents, um, all
the way up, right?
To start that early, as yousaid, just kind of helping our
kids understand their needs andto be able to speak up to
advocate for themselves.
Well, today we're talking abouttrauma-informed parenting and
more specifically how it alignswith our faith.
(09:41):
Because I thought I think it'sso important for parents to be
able to navigate trauma-informedparenting and faith-filled
parenting together and really umtalking about what that looks
like.
So tell us what what istrauma-informed parenting?
How is it different from moretraditional parenting methods?
SPEAKER_02 (10:03):
Sure.
I I think that I like I like touse simple terms because that's
what I can wrap my mind around.
And of course, I'll just saythat my response will be, you
know, contributing to all of theother great wisdom that's out
there.
For me, it really was and isabout taking into account um the
experiences, whether rememberedor not, acknowledging the fact
(10:27):
that traumatic experiences ofneglect, abuse, loss, bro, you
know, so expanding the conceptof trauma without, you know,
watering it down, butacknowledging that it's it's
something that has harmed us orharmed someone in a significant
way that requires specializedprocessing, acknowledgement,
(10:50):
honoring.
So again, that can be the griefof and the loss, the actual
substance impact, you know,whether it's in utero, uh drug
use, alcohol use, those sorts ofthings, uh physical abuse,
emotional abuse, those thingsthat we cannot without
intervention of some kind, ourbrains get stuck.
(11:13):
Okay, so the it's the stucknessfor us or those we love that
then has to be taken intoaccount.
And so parenting in atrauma-informed way is first
acknowledging what trauma is andalso then saying, my parenting
needs to come from a place ofcompassion and honoring that
(11:36):
there were experiences that needto be addressed, often come in
the form of then deficits thatneed to be filled up and that I
need to take into account as Iam honoring my, you know, my
values.
And so we're gonna talk aboutthat when we talk about
faith-informed trauma parenting.
It's I I'm gonna acknowledgesomething and say, uh align, you
(11:59):
know, in a way that aligns withmy faith and my values and my
the outcomes I believe are rightand good for this child.
I'm going to speak to them in away that um acknowledges where
they're starting from.
And and uh, and so it doesn't,you know, trauma-informed
parenting doesn't change wherewe are heading and what our out
(12:24):
our desired outcomes are forthat child or for our family, it
does uh inform the tools we needalong the way.
You know, I often say it's amap.
And when we take into account,let's say we're going on a road
trip, we have to take intoaccount where we're starting and
where we want to end up.
And then along the way, whatwhat do we need?
(12:44):
If we have a child that's uh ina wheelchair, we're gonna need
special tools and we're gonnaneed special equipment.
So really that's what I meanwhen I say trauma informed.
I'm I'm acknowledging where do Istart and how and what extra
tools do I need to get to whereI want to go.
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
Yeah, that's that's so good.
Such a good perspective toreally think about our journey
is just going to look differentbecause the needs are are
different along the way basedoff of their past experiences
and really taking all of thatinto account, which sounds
amazingly aligned with ourfaith, right?
(13:24):
Having this compassion for kidsand their experiences and kind
of meeting them in that placesounds very Jesus-like.
And so, why would people saythat trauma-informed parenting?
Because I've heard it thattrauma-informed parenting
doesn't align with biblicalparenting.
(13:46):
So, how would you respond tothat?
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Yeah, that's great.
There are a couple things thatcome to mind as we're having
this conversation, and one isthat sometimes I think some of
us thought that everythingneeded to change.
Now all my sources aredifferent.
Like all of a sudden, oh, somaybe you know, some of us
start, and and I do think thishas changed over the last couple
(14:11):
of decades, but maybe at firstit was I'm welcoming children
into my home.
They're coming along and they'regonna join in how because the
gift that we're giving them iswho we are as people of faith.
We're gonna raise them as wewere raised or as we believe
that a biblical family lookslike.
(14:31):
So there, and then maybe there'ssome resistance at first to
that.
That no, they've they've got toline up with me in all the ways
of traditional parenting.
Like they're they're coming intothis, and this is what I'm
giving them.
And in our mindset, we'rethinking that that nope, they're
coming in and they're fittinginto us.
Then maybe after a lot ofbumping our heads and realizing
(14:52):
that is not working, we go tothe complete opposite extreme.
Yeah.
We think now we've got to changeall of our goals, all of our,
you know, our destination, as Ijust said, like everything now
has to change.
It's it's it's an either, oh,now I'm trauma-informed
parenting.
That's that's the opposite oftraditional parenting.
(15:13):
And and that may be true, butit's not the opposite of
biblical parenting.
Okay.
It is really making sure that weare um realizing what we're
really seeing.
And what you've said, Nicole, iswe're with the love of Christ,
meeting people where they are,which is what Jesus did.
So it is not the opposite.
(15:35):
Our habits may be different.
Just, you know, think of it interms of applying a different
culture, but our values do notchange.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:44):
The principles of what people need and where
they're heading, it's just thatthe tools and the skills we need
to take them on that road oflearning to follow Jesus, of
learning to honor authority andto respect authority comes with,
as you've said, compassion,meeting them where they're at
and not expecting thetraditional disciplines and
(16:06):
parenting to work at especiallyat first.
But those are not traditionalparenting is not necessarily
biblical parenting.
And that to she reshape whatwe're saying, yeah, and really
stop and think.
And so some people might thinkthat it's opposed because
they've misunderstood culturaltraditional parenting as
(16:30):
synonymous with biblicalparenting.
That may be the very first thingthat we say um it is is probably
the rub, and we've got toreshape that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
I I completely agree um with with all of that stuff.
And I love how you talk about,you know, when kids come in, a
lot of times we're expectingthem to kind of fit our norm and
just obey.
Well, in the same way thatunbelievers aren't going to
(17:04):
choose to obey the laws of God,they don't believe in God,
right?
They don't trust God, they don'tbelieve that God is good and for
them.
So they're not gonna follow hiscommands.
God says, if you love me, youwill follow my commands.
Um the same way, if our kidsdon't trust us, if they don't
come in, they're notautomatically just going to
(17:26):
respect that authority becausewe say we're the authority.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
That is so true.
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
As much as we want that to be the case.
SPEAKER_02 (17:36):
Yes, and and also we can feel like a failure because
we're looking at the Bible andwe're saying, you know, it says,
Children obey your parents.
Oh, our children are not obeyingus, so we must be failing.
And yet, what we see in JesusChrist goes to the earth and
meets us where we are at whilewe were still sinners.
Christ died for us.
(17:57):
Yeah, He comes to us, not theother way around.
And so then we have a choice, ofcourse.
And that we, you know, that'sabout once you know our kids
become older and we begin toempower them to find the help.
All of that is so aligned.
But, you know, back to thisgoing to where they are at, you
know, the thing, let you know,let's talk a little bit about
what the Bible does say.
(18:18):
Um, you know, we we do believein authoritative parenting,
which is that parents are incharge.
And, you know, at Finally Home,we teach that parents have two
jobs to be leaders and models.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
And leaders are in charge.
They and what we say always isthat that does not mean your
kids always do what you say.
That means that you set thecourse for what the rules are,
what the and those rules arebased in values, not arbitrary
do's or don'ts.
And so there are values that weset, like honesty.
(18:51):
Um, we, you know, and and theBible does, um, as believers,
the Bible does inform ourvalues.
Yeah.
So going, you know, so gatheringtogether as adults and saying
what is important to us andidentifying those values, and
then making rules that supportthose values, and then teaching
our kids how to follow thosevalues by giving them, you know,
(19:15):
consequences and and um rewards,but also realizing that that
value of honesty looks differentfor a four-year-old, uh, an
eight-year-old, a 10-year-old,et cetera.
And that we are taking intoaccount not just chronological
age with our kids who've beenthrough trauma, but we're
actually looking at theirdevelopment.
(19:36):
And so we're really we'rewalking along.
So our values aren't changing,like, oh, well, I guess lying is
okay.
No, we say truth is important,and then we just walk alongside.
So we're holding things up.
We're just having to be verycreative, very, you know,
walking alongside, getting lotsof advisors on how do we
(19:57):
continue to hold up standardswithin compassion and chance
after chance um to help, youknow, helping helping our kids
along the way heal.
I mean, ultimately that iswhat's happening too, right?
Yes, that they're healing andwe're pouring into deficits.
Um, so traditional parentingoften um, as we know, um is
(20:21):
asking kids, you know, to meet astandard, and then we're, you
know, providing discipline andpunishment when they don't.
And yet what we do realize withum when we say parents as
leaders and models is that wetraditional parents parenting
assumes a relationship of trust.
SPEAKER_03 (20:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:39):
And so that's probably the biggest learning
for families like ours is thatyou know, we've got to make sure
that we build the relationship.
It doesn't happen just because achild enters our home.
And that that's the thing that'scatching up, that then
ultimately we hope gives us thattrust that allows the authority
(21:00):
to really become a healthything.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Yes, yes, to all of that.
There, there's something elsewhen you were talking about that
Ephesians 6, right, that sayschildren should obey their
parents and the Lord, for thisis right, right?
But it also says fathers shouldnot provoke your children to
anger.
And I think a lot of times weskip over that part because it's
easy to look at theresponsibilities of somebody
(21:25):
else, but not at ours.
And but knowing what we knowabout trauma, right?
We know that our kids withprevious trauma histories, with
a lack of trust, are more easilyprovoked into that fight,
flight, or freeze response,which does come out as anger a
lot of times, right?
And so our responsibility inthat biblical parenting is just
(21:50):
what you were saying.
We still uphold those values,but the way we do it has to be
different based on theirhistory.
And so taking that into account,as if we are gonna be uh
obedient to what the Lord hascalled us to, then we have to
change the way that we go aboutthings in order to not provoke
(22:10):
that child to anger.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
That is so true.
And and I think that is such agreat reminder, provoke, because
we've all been there where westart to um push and push and
put our foot down and realizethat it is having the opposite
effect, and yet we have a hardtime telling ourselves to stop.
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
Yes, yes, yes, and me every day.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
That is me every day.
In our heads, we're going, thisis not working, but I'm too far
in.
Um, that is wisdom, and that isself-control, and that's
leadership being and that's oneof the things we tell families
is part of being a leader isstaying in charge of yourself
and your own emotions because weget triggered and we get hooked,
and we are seeing that this isnot wise.
(22:58):
I am provoking, and and and it'snot helpful.
SPEAKER_03 (23:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
Uh, that's the other thing is, you know, the Lord
shows us it's it's a matter ofsaying, oh Lord, help me stop
because I am so far in and I amlike saying, I want this child
to obey me now, and we're havingthe tantrum.
Um, so I love that you connectedthat in because provoking is the
perfect word when we realizethat um it is to stop.
(23:27):
So again, I just say, you know,our values are the same.
How we go on that journey, it isdifferent because we're going to
our child and we're saying, letme take you there.
Um, and it is a lot morecomplicated than any of us ever
imagined when we start thejourney.
SPEAKER_00 (23:46):
Yeah.
So what does that look like?
How do we walk our kids um in away that helps them trust us,
helps them be connected to us,but also ultimately helps them
know and trust Jesus.
SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
Yeah, that is so what a wonderful.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
I mean, that is a big question, right?
And and I don't know that Imean, I know all of us would
just love to like throw down ananswer and say, here's the
handbook, here's how your kidswill know and trust Jesus.
SPEAKER_02 (24:18):
Well, so the first thing I'm gonna say, because I
love that, is like, could wefind someone that would give us
that answer, Nicole?
Um well, first and foremost, thething I think about is John 15
about remaining in the vine.
So parents, there we don't havea handbook because we are made
to rely fully on the HolySpirit, yeah, Jesus Christ in us
(24:39):
every single day.
We have the wisdom of Christ inus, we have the power of Christ.
We are promised, you know, thepower of Christ on a daily
basis.
We are we are promised um hislife and his energy.
You know, Paul talks about in umColossians about the energy that
works so powerfully in him, youknow, as he's struggling, you
(24:59):
know, to serve the church and tospread the gospel.
So, first and foremost, therelease uh the lie that we will
have a formula or a map.
And and most of us listeningwould have more um maturity than
to think that.
But I I will say, so before I Imake some comments on that, is
that I know I personally beatmyself up a lot over the the
(25:21):
years that I wasn't better,smarter, wiser, had the answer,
or oops, I got really upset andnow I'm acting like a toddler.
Um, so there's there's a lot ofshame that can come.
And of course, our enemy wouldlove that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
You know, this thing we step into is God-sized.
Um, and yet it's not without,you know, hope that we do find
skills, many advisors, um,learning, you know, listening to
podcasts like this.
Um, so I mean, generallyspeaking, let me talk about some
of the things that have beenreally important to my husband
and I and our family along theway.
(25:59):
Um, is that I do believe that,you know, we do everything as
unto the Lord.
So we do pursue wisdom.
Um, we do pursue people who arefurther down the journey than us
who've learned, learned somethings.
We do learn that that thisbuilding of a relationship is
not counter to biblicalparenting.
(26:19):
It actually is, you know,loving.
Um, it is, you know, we we aremeant to love and to serve and
to lay our lives down.
And so, you know, don't for onemoment think that the time you
spend connecting and pouring in,even when your child has been
incredibly disobedient, um, thatis not counter to your job.
(26:40):
It is part of your job.
And what we find that feelscounterintuitive to us is the
more we connect and pour in andmeet our kids where they're at,
the more they begin to soften upand they do begin to cooperate
in little bites and pieces.
So we do flip that tradition umover, you know, we do flip it
(27:03):
over um opposite in the thepoor.
I remember those days where, andwe advise parents that where you
do feel like it is just aconstant correction, correction,
correction, correction that isimportant.
And stopping and pausing um andnot considering time together
playing as a reward, um, youknow, and not and not wanting to
(27:26):
reward, you know, bad behavior.
That that's hard.
I mean, the last thing you wantto do is connect with a child
who is just opposing, opposing,and yet it is what they need and
often what we need in ourhearts.
So that's one thing is to setyourself free that to think that
relationship, playing, ofcourse, you know, none of us
(27:47):
would say we want to withholdrelationship as a punishment,
but you know, we would say thatit's hard to sit and play with a
child who has been reallydifficult.
SPEAKER_03 (27:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
And yet it is like that connection and that love,
that unconditional pouring in,playing on their terms.
So that's one key, you know.
And I'm picturing in my head allthe times, all the different
years that I did just crazythings, you know, whether it was
playing, you know, with fingerpaints on all on our bodies or
you know, pudding or whatever,you're like things that I think,
(28:19):
oh my goodness, if people sawwhat we were doing, um, they
would think we were cray cray.
And and I was thinking we were,but it's like whatever it takes.
Okay.
So, so play, um, connection,loving, um, no matter what is
going on, um, reading the book,don't use those things as a
reward.
Um, unless it's extra time,that's okay.
(28:42):
You know, extra, extra timethat's really special, can be
used as the result um of uh, youknow, good choices that can be.
But the the baseline always,always connecting, yeah, um,
getting outside help, um,learning, you know, like just
soaking that in, finding trustedpeople.
(29:02):
So both peers in terms of peoplewho are doing this journey with
us, and of course, you know, Ilearned so much just sitting in
and observing play therapy.
Yeah.
I learned so much learning howto talk about certain things,
um, and mimicking the thatlanguage.
Um, and of course, always docontinuing to do the things that
(29:26):
are important to you.
You know, we say that parentshave to, you know, everybody in
the family has um is, you know,is somebody.
We say be somebody and belong.
So, you know, I know we talk alot about self-care.
Um, don't put it off.
Um, but that can start to getreally like, oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I'm supposed to put the oxygenon me first.
(29:48):
Well, let me just break it downa little bit simpler.
Don't forget who you are andwhat you enjoy doing, and that
you too are someone's child, youknow, that you belong to the
king.
And he loves.
Loves you and he gave youhobbies and desires.
And you know, you have tonurture those things and not
just for yourself, but to model,you know, like yes, we lay down
(30:10):
our lives, but again, you know,young adults need to realize
that they are not the center ofthe universe, and that, you
know, mom and dad have thingsthat they are going to continue
to grow and learn and nurturethemselves.
So, you know, just boil some ofthose things down.
Play and connect with your kidseven when they have been really
(30:32):
awful.
Um, get, you know, lots ofoutside help.
Um, and take care of yourself inways that recognize that I
matter.
Yeah.
You know, it's incrediblydestructive when we get
swallowed up um in our families.
And it really is destructive foreverybody.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Yeah, we talk a lot on this podcast uh about
self-care.
So I work as a health andwellness coach for foster and
adoptive parents.
And because I've just seen itwreck families, I've seen it
wreck lives when even my ownlife, when we do neglect
(31:14):
ourselves.
And I think part of the way thatwe need to look at self-care is
it's our equipping, ourequipping to do the things that
we are supposed to do.
It's not being selfish becausewe're not, I do think culture
has hijacked the word self-care.
And so a lot of times the waythe world speaks of self-care is
self-indulgence.
(31:34):
Um, but but if we're doing trueself-care, if we're eating
right, if we're exercising, ifwe're in the word, we're in
prayer, we're really um in ourspiritual disciplines and stuff
like that, really equippingourselves.
We're equipping ourselves to doour job well, to fulfill our
purpose well.
And without that, we can't.
SPEAKER_02 (31:56):
That's exactly right.
And I that what a greatdifferentiation between
self-indulgence and self-care.
It's part of the responsibilitywe have for stewarding
ourselves.
Yeah.
Um, it also, like I said, andsometimes this is what helps
people push push them over theedge because we're we get stuck
and it's all about our kids,it's all about our kids, is just
(32:17):
this idea we're also modelingthat.
That's a healthy life.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
And ultimately we we are raising up people to launch
into the world and live healthylives.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
Yes.
I've been doing a bunch of umstudies on spiritual
disciplines.
And one of the things that keepscoming up over and over again is
that we are body, soul, andspirit, or body, mind, and
spirit, and that they are allconnected.
They're not separate.
And so when you neglect onepart, you neglect the whole.
(32:50):
And so really looking at takingcare of our bodies, taking care
of our spiritual selves, takingcare of our minds, like as one
holistic thing that helps us dothe things that we're supposed
to do.
SPEAKER_02 (33:02):
And we have to feed our brain, you know, with the
good things like you weretalking about.
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
If we are to tell ourselves no when we are
starting to provoke our kids.
I mean, yeah, I don't know aboutyou, but I mean, I I at
different times was so strungout on stress that, you know, I
I was just on the edge, youknow, all of the time.
And um, we have to, we havelimits and and we cannot just
(33:27):
run on uh empty.
And and part of I think thereason not only do we get just
swallowed up in, well, we gottafix our kids, save our kids,
whatever, which by the way,there's just no um expiration to
that.
There's no finish line to that.
Yes.
And that's that's one of thelies I think that young parents
think, well, you know what?
I can I can sacrifice all of,and believe me, they're
(33:51):
sacrificed, but I can sacrificemy own health in every domain
that you mentioned becausethere's going to be a point
where they're gonna be okay, andthen I'll go.
And that's not the way lifeworks.
Then I'll do myself, then I'llgo take a break, then I'll go be
with my husband.
Yeah.
Um, none of that is actuallytrue or reality.
(34:13):
So we have to be doing it allalong the way.
Um, and that's a oh wow, if wecan learn that sooner rather
than later.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Amen.
Amen.
So, what does success look likethen, right?
If there's not a finish line,how do we know we're doing what
we're supposed to do?
SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
Well, I think it does start with looking in the
mirror and saying, How am Idoing?
Am I loving?
Am I growing in Christ everyday?
Yeah.
I am um, I mean, that to me, amI am I able to regulate myself?
(34:56):
Am I am I living with the fruitsof the spirit because I'm
inviting the Holy Spirit?
I mean, because really all ofour kids ultimately have a
choice of how how they're gonnalive.
I mean, that's that's the otherthing too, Nicole, is that as
you get older, um, I'm older,um, you realize that I am uh my
(35:23):
children will I'm setting themup to make to know what it's
like to live a good life.
And that means to live life inChrist.
Okay.
Right.
But everybody has a choice tomake.
SPEAKER_00 (35:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (35:35):
And I can't make that choice for them.
So I'm setting the table throughmodeling, through the guidelines
and boundaries I set in my homethat, you know, and I've said it
a thousand times to my kids likehere, here's I'm setting forth
to you, like, this is the waythat's right and good.
And you get to decide whetheryou're gonna live in that.
Okay.
(35:55):
And of course, while you're inmy home, there'll be
consequences and and benefitsand all of the things that come
along with that.
But that's that's childish,okay?
Right.
Things that I'm doing for you.
And then over time, you'lldecide whether you internalize
those things or not, and realizethat the real benefit is the
life, you know, you're living anabundant life.
But you get to decide, and somewill have to learn the hard way,
(36:18):
etc.
So I honestly have to answerthat question by how is my life?
How are my relationships?
How's my marriage?
How am I thriving in the Lord?
Because if I look at theexternal, now, of course, when
our kids are in our home, it'swhat is family life looking
like?
Am I getting getting, you know,there's a lot of chaos, but are
(36:41):
we able to honor our values?
And, you know, I'm thinking alot, even in terms of all of the
outside help we need sometimes,you know, for my husband to get
out when things were just crazy,husband and I to get out on
dates and stuff, that usuallymeant every single kid went
somewhere different.
SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
I couldn't do the traditional have a babysitter
come here, you know.
So it's like, am I gonna, youknow, doing the work that I can
do to honor my values?
Is my marriage growing?
Is my relationship with the Lordgrowing?
I mean, honestly, I I thinkthat's the best way I can answer
it because I don't get to makeall of I don't get to choose
(37:23):
what my kids will ultimatelychoose.
Um I will say that we are seeingbeautiful fruit in um most of
our children's lives right now.
Yeah.
That we still have uh we stillhave one that is needing to
(37:44):
learn some things the hard way,but I just have to look and say,
I am really in love with myhusband.
I love the Lord.
Um, I am getting to see thebenefits of my children who I
have a child getting married in10 days.
Oh, that's amazing.
It is, and and I and so um, andmy eldest had um his first baby
(38:06):
four months ago.
I had my first grandchild.
Oh my gosh.
Make no mistake, we we havebeautiful gifts from the Lord,
and um I realized somewherealong the way that yeah, I mean,
there's fruit to the choices wemake in parenting and our kids
still have free will.
(38:28):
Sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
Absolutely.
Well, I appreciate that answerin looking at ourselves.
I mean, I know even with myyounger kids and parenting them
now, my hardest nights.
So I have plenty of nights whereI don't sleep because thoughts
just race in my mind, but myhardest nights are when I mess
(38:49):
up, not when my kids mess up,right?
Because my responsibility is forme.
And so I need to be in controland have self-control and and
the fruit of the spirit and me,relying on that spirit to work
through me versus trying to um,you know, I love your analogy or
(39:11):
your your thought to step backwhen when we realize we're going
too far.
Because I think a lot of timesas parents, we don't give
ourselves permission to stepback once we set on a path,
right?
If we're going, if we're goingat it full force, then we feel
like we're committed and we haveto like see it through.
And I think giving ourselvespermission to step back so that
(39:35):
we are honoring the Lord and weare we are staying true to the
values and the things that wethink are really important, I
think is huge.
Um, and you know what?
I mean, I was a child in youngadulthood that went very far
astray.
And and I now am superpassionate about the Lord.
So we don't know how the Lord'sgonna use hard seasons in our
(39:59):
kids' lives.
I heard something one time thatsaid you can't um save your kids
from their testimony.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
And and just really kind of releasing, like our kids
may have to make some mistakesin adulthood.
Like how they're doing incollege life or young adulthood
is not necessarily always howthey've been parented.
It's not always whether they'rea good kid or a bad kid or, you
know, all of those traditionalthings.
I do think sometimes in thechurch, though, that there is a
(40:30):
lot of pressure for your kids tolive up to a certain standard as
a reflection of you.
And so I think we are a lot oftimes really likely to base our
parenting and what we feel likewe need to do in order to try to
control a certain outcome sothat we look like we're supposed
(40:53):
to look in the church.
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
It's true.
It's a lie.
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
Amen to that.
I am to that.
I mean, it just I think there'sso much freedom in releasing
that.
SPEAKER_02 (41:07):
Right.
There's, you know, what we, youknow, I've heard a lot, I'm sure
you have to, you know, Proverbstrain up a child in the way they
should go.
And when they're old, they willnot depart from it.
You know, what we have toremember about Proverbs is it's
not a promise, they'reprinciples of life.
Yeah, that most of the time thisis what happens.
And so I do agree that there,there are, you know, there,
(41:30):
there's fruit to good, kind,loving parenting, and there's
free will.
And it's a dangerous thing tobase your identity, your
success, um, on uh how your youknow, kids turn out, quote
unquote, because um it's thesame that, you know, when they
(41:54):
make good choices, you know,that also isn't like, oh, look
at me.
You know, that's some of theworst books are when people
raise like one or two kids andthey now they're telling you
exactly how to, you know, raiseyour kids because it works for
them.
And I mean, there's just so manycontributing factors.
So, yes, there's fruit to good,wise, biblical, loving.
And and when I say biblical,because I do want to be, you
(42:15):
know, clear that we wemisunderstood.
So just to repeat what you and Ihave already said, it's
compassionate, loving,value-based, guiding, teaching,
servant-like parenting.
Um, that's that's biblical umparenting, that we we're meeting
our kids where they're at, andwe're continuing to set a
(42:37):
standard.
And what that looks like in theformula really requires a lot of
advisors.
So that that first and foremost,but we just have to be very,
very cautious that we arelooking at our kids to prove,
you know, our worth or ourvalue.
And and I also I just want toacknowledge what you said about
the you know, your hardest onyourself.
(42:59):
We have to also the this journeygive ourselves a lot of grace
because that the Lord is pouringhis grace on us.
Yeah, um, this is like, youknow, this journey brought out
my worst qualities.
Okay.
Yes.
Which is so very, very confusingwhen you're like, I'm doing this
(43:20):
good thing.
Yes.
And then that good thing likebrings out, you know, it's like
all the garbage comes up fromthe bottom because things
boiled.
Um, that's when you go, oh Lord,that's my testimony.
My testimony is I said yes, hadno idea this would actually
shine a light on the things thatthe Lord needed to heal in me or
(43:44):
fine in me.
But when I realized, when Istopped the death grip hold on,
I'm doing this good thing, andand that partly contributed to
the I'm provoking them becauseI'm I will control, you know, I
will control this and fix thiskid.
Um, when I was set was was setfree from that, and I just went,
(44:06):
Lord, I I don't I opened myhands and and acknowledged, you
know, my limits, my pain, my umwhat I needed to learn and and
with humility and also said,Lord, um, this is only going to,
I can only literally survivethis in you.
I mean, that's when thebeautiful fruit began to happen
in my own life.
I mean, that's when I justrejoice in the Lord because I
(44:29):
think without that, I probablywould have gone a lot longer in
my life thinking I needed toperform, have a certain, have my
kids have a certain image,thinking I needed to control and
fix.
And that really I had if if Iwas truly, truly honest, it was
that God was over here tellingme, you go do these good things
and then come back and report tome.
(44:51):
And that's not it.
He's with us.
And when we say, Oh Lord, I, youknow, I lost it today, or I I
did this, or I don't even knowwhat to do about this.
I mean, and just a loud, like,who cares what other people
think?
I mean, what a freeing, yes,freeing place to be.
And that's when I felt like theLord was like, Yeah, you get it.
SPEAKER_00 (45:14):
Yeah, yeah, but you do see a lot of your darkness,
and so it makes you feel moreexposed.
And and that is not that is notfun.
In in Numbers 11, Moses iscrying out to God, right?
And he's leading theseIsraelites, and they're
complaining and they're hard,and he's struggling to lead
(45:35):
them, and he's under a whole lotof stress, and he looks at God
and says, you know, why did yougive me these people?
I can't do this.
But but towards the end, hesays, I it's this is too hard.
I am seeing my own wretchedness.
And and I was like, Oh, Lord,that's it.
I see my own dirty, and I don'tlike that.
(45:57):
I don't like that part.
I like going about my littlesuburban life, you know.
Before we got into this journey,I just went about life and
everything seemed fine.
Like everything just I fit thatchurch norm, you know, and our
family kind of fit that pictureand it just was.
(46:18):
Everything was good.
But when I started, when my ownstuff started to come out, but
the thing is is God was usingall of that, all of that to kind
of work work some of that out ofme, but also to work within it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:34):
Well, I like it because that stuff was already
there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We just didn't see it.
We just didn't have the pressurethat would require that, you
know, I acknowledge it.
And so I do consider that agift.
Yes.
Um, and that's something, yeah,just to for for people to you
you use the word exposed.
(46:55):
And for families like ours,we're exposed to a lot.
I mean, we're exposed to thesystem where our our homes
literally like we are exposed.
I don't like being exposedeither.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
And I'm also I'm gonna remember, like, you know,
what you just said.
Why did you give me thesepeople?
Uh, how many times have I saidin my heart, why did you give me
these children?
SPEAKER_00 (47:17):
Oh, listen, go back and read that chapter because he
literally says, Why did you giveme these people?
I did not birth them.
And um, and he talks throughjust how hard it is.
And the thing is, is he's notreally talking about them.
Like he's talking about hit hisability to lead them well and
(47:38):
how he's seeing his own dirt andhis own mess as he tries to lead
these people really, reallywell.
Um, but it it is a veryinteresting chapter.
I'm telling you, the Lord usedthat, that, those verses to
really shift my wholeperspective about what we were,
(47:58):
what we were doing.
Um, because I had gotten veryprideful, like and and had the
idea, like I got this.
This is and and okay, Lord,you've given me this assignment
and I'm gonna take it and run.
Versus like what you weretalking about and him being a
partner with us, him moving withus and in us and everything that
(48:20):
we do.
SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
I love it.
I love it.
And then that does set us freeto get the skills and the tools
that we need.
Yes.
We're just approaching itdifferently.
We're we're approaching it notas their salvation, but as tools
to help us to do the job we'vebeen called to do.
And that's the thing, too.
I I think would I would remindus all that you know there's
(48:45):
nothing magic in the toolfinding the right tool or skill.
It's what we do as unto theLord.
It's like we're walking alongand we're like, oh, we're
pursuing because that is inthat's how we do this as unto
the Lord.
And so we don't need to beafraid of it as people of faith
that to find the tool or the youknow, the therapy or whatever.
It's the it it's all of thosethings are what help us along
(49:09):
the journey.
You know, it's yeah, it's themanna in the desert.
It's the, you know, it's theprovision.
It's not our God, um, but it ishis provision.
And so we bathe everything inprayer and and that in that way,
kind of coming back full circleto this conversation, it's not
in opposition.
We have our values, they'rebiblically aligned.
(49:31):
We're doing this in Christ, notlike you said or I said, like,
okay, go do this assignment.
And and I chose you becauseyou're super strong and super
smart.
Um opposite, and that's wherethe shame comes.
Because when we realize that webelieved something like that,
yeah, then then we go, oh dear.
(49:52):
And now you, you know, why didyou choose me?
Because I thought you chose mebecause I was great and smart
and whatever, you know, we wouldnever admit that.
But that's where all the shameand the love.
Um, but we we align those thingsand then we're not afraid.
We're not afraid when we see,you know, research is aligning
that this is what kids need.
(50:12):
Oh, this is what Jesus taught.
So we're not now there arethings that go beyond and then
um, you know, that that we knowin our hearts or when we seek
advice, like that doesn't alignwith our faith.
That that's not true.
There are plenty of things outthere that aren't true.
But we when we are walking umwith wisdom and advisors and
(50:34):
people who, you know, faithaligned and we're paying
attention to the Bible, we wecan discern those things.
But at the core, um, what we'redoing is trying to love the way
that Jesus loves and to bringour kids to a place of living a
God-honoring life.
SPEAKER_00 (50:52):
That's amazing.
Well, Kristen, this conversationhas been amazing.
Um, where can people find you?
SPEAKER_02 (51:01):
Yes, well, I agree, and what a pleasure to connect
with you.
Um I uh you can find us atfinallyhome.net.
Um, we do exist to encourage andequip uh families like ours.
And so we have a lot ofresources available to you,
online courses, some free uhresources to download and at
(51:23):
the, you know, and at the core,just call us.
We we like we love to talk withfamilies from all over and just
to to show up and to be a partof your team.
Um, we have a whole group offolks who would be just it would
be their greatest privilege todo that.
So reach out and connect with usand let us know how we can serve
(51:46):
you.
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
That's awesome.
I will put all of those links inthe show notes as well so that
people can find you.
But I so appreciate this timewith you.
This conversation was soencouraging to me, and I know it
will be for our listeners aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (52:00):
Well, me as well.
Thank you, Nicole, for theinvitation to and just to get to
know you and to hear uh fromyour wisdom.
I appreciate it.
This has been fun.
SPEAKER_00 (52:09):
Wow, what a gift uh that conversation with Kristen
was.
I love how she reminded us thattrauma-informed parenting and
faith aren't separatecategories, but they're woven
together in how we live, love,and lead our families every
single day.
Before we close, I'd love to askyou a favor.
If this episode encouraged you,would you take just a minute to
(52:32):
leave a review for the FosterParent Well podcast?
Your reviews help other fosterand adoptive parents find this
community and be encouraged too.
Let's pray together as wefinish.
Lord, thank you for the reminderthat you are with us in the hard
and the holy.
Thank you for equipping us withwisdom and strength and
(52:54):
compassion as we parent childrenwho have walked through trauma.
Lord, and thank you for wisewomen like Kristen that have
gone before us that can helplead the way.
Help us to lean on you daily,practicing those small
disciplines that anchor ourhearts in your truth.
And may our homes be placeswhere healing and hope take
(53:17):
root.
Lord, we love you and we trustyou in Jesus' name.
Amen.
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