September 9, 2023 • 51 mins
Ever questioned how invisible double standards within our culture could be affecting you? Brace yourself for a riveting conversation that exposes those subtle, yet powerful norms that often go unnoticed, but when spotted, can trigger feelings of frustration and unfairness. From our homes to our workplaces, and more surprisingly, within our legal system, these norms are deeply etched, waiting to be challenged.
What if we told you that these very double standards could be the barriers preventing unity and mutual respect? We journey through the complexities of differing perspectives, unfolding how being more understanding and kind can erode these divisions. You will begin to see the impact of these standards, how they shape our relationships and create an environment of unconscious bias. We uncover how even a seemingly harmless comment can perpetuate double standards, leading to feelings of disrespect and exclusion.
Finally, in an era where technology is ever-present, we dare to ask: could artificial intelligence be perpetuating bias and unfairness? We touch the surface of this critical issue, contemplating our own biases and the role of pride in maintaining our convictions, even when proven wrong. At the end of this compelling episode, we hope to inspire reflective conversations about these norms and the effects they have on our relationships and our culture. Join us, as we challenge these standards, and together, let's ignite a change.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Let's have it.
Hey, hey, hey, everybody, it'sthat time again, frame of
reference coming together.
My name is Antoine Hall, missy,and I'm here with my friend, my
brother, raoul Lebrich.
Raoul, the Fresh Lebrich right.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's right.
I'm so fresh.
I'm like a can of freshlypicked up Del Monte beans.
Yes, I am.
You open me up.
You open up that can go.
Whoa, that is a fresh bean.
That is a fresh bean in so manyways Right.
So, oh my God, I just blew thesound stuff right off the
(00:49):
spectrum here, so we're going togo back and probably go.
What the heck was he doing?
Because he just clipped thatbaby out like nobody's business.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right, and yeah, in the course frame of reference
coming together, of course, yougot old white guy, old black guy
coming together, just reallysharing.
We both strive for unity andloving people, but also we bring
together different points ofview on some things and we hope
(01:19):
to be an example of what itwould look like when different
groups, people with differentideologies, backgrounds, racist
colors, creeds, whateverreligions even, can just come in
and not just to say, oh, weagree to disagree, but to
actually talk it out.
To talk it out to say, hey, Ihear your point, and then, and
(01:41):
even be able to admittedly say,hey, yeah, I used to think this
way about a thing, I did notknow that.
And even just to say, yeah, wow, I've been wrong.
No, of course, and it's just,this is we strive for this just
to be the beginning of somegreat conversation in our area,
in our country, about justcoming together.
And so, of course, no, raoul,my brother here, came up with a
(02:05):
great topic for today doublestandards, double standards.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
There's no double standard here.
We treat everyone fairly.
What are you talking?
Double standards?
No, no, no, no, no.
You know, and that's kind ofthe thing about double standards
, isn't it?
Right from the get go, we don'twant to admit that they exist,
you know.
It's just, it's a really weirddeal, like they can be going on,
(02:33):
they can be festering like somepussy wound for years and we
just we kind of say, oh, notpaying no attention to that
pussy wound, it doesn't reallyexist.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And it can in a double standards can become so
ingrained in the fabric of aculture or a situation or a
company or whatever it may be,that it's just overlooked.
I'll give you an example.
I worked for a food distributorfor a lot of years and of
course you know the super, duper, top performers.
They didn't have to come infrom wherever territory they
(03:08):
were in in their sales region tothe sales meetings.
And of course that thing islike hey, if you selling, don't
worry about it.
Or, like you know, like saysthat a good, super, that really
really good athlete.
You know, it's like a littlefootball training camp right now
.
So it's like a lot of theveterans or a lot of the great,
really really good players.
They tend to take practices offand so we'll let it slide, you
(03:34):
know.
And then it's like just so manydifferent forms of a double
standard in these groups.
Today, in that LaBresh fashion,I found a definition for a
double standard.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, there's a.
There's a.
A lot of ways to define, butyou know we think of if you've
got a standard that is, you know, agreed upon.
Let's say, the standard iswe're not going to talk dirty,
okay, we're not going to usenasty words, our, our, our rule
(04:08):
in this family.
You know, mom sets it out, dadsets it out, we will not use
language like that.
And then there's one relativethat just has a foul mouth, has
always had a foul mouth, and youknow, everyone just kind of
takes it in and says you know,well, that's uncle whatever or
aunt blah, blah, blah.
(04:28):
They just talk that way.
There's, there's in lies, adouble standard that all of a
sudden, as a kid, you may sitback and go wait a minute.
We can't talk like that.
Why can uncle so-and-so talkthat way?
Or why, why does aunt such andsuch get away with behaving like
that?
Well, because they're them Okay.
(04:49):
And the thing I was thinking,what you were talking before is
double standards are sointeresting because when it's us
that gets the advantage of thedouble standard, we're cool with
it.
When it's somebody else thatgets the advantage of it, it's
absolutely the worst thingthat's ever happened in the
history of humankind right.
So you sit back and think, allright.
(05:10):
So part of the reason we haveand allow, I think, double
standards is because we know wehave some that we take advantage
of.
I mean, I get to get in thefront of the line at certain
events because I know the guythat takes tickets so and that
drives everyone behind meabsolutely bananas, but it's a
problem.
They got to wait in line, toobad for them, so.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
But if we're in that line watching that, oh boy look
out right, yeah, so that doublestandard, like, of course we
basically judge in our ownbehavior compared to the
behavior of others, that's spent, like you say, when it benefits
us.
It's like if you were standingin that line you'd be like, hey,
but it's you going to the frontof the line.
It's like, oh, it's all right,don't worry about it.
(05:52):
Yeah Well, yeah, like, and.
But yeah, that's, that's a and,of course, basically is just
simply a hey, a rule orprinciple which is unfairly
applied in different ways todifferent people or groups.
You know is a general definitionof it and we see that play out
in the legal system.
We see it play out amongstcorporations and companies and
(06:13):
employers, in schools and justsociety, as in general.
You know we see it and butagain, it's, you know, with the
within the context of ourpodcast here you know we're
talking about.
You know, along the lines ofrace and equity and even like,
(06:34):
say, judicial.
That's a look at what'shappening in the news.
You know we got a very popularperson that's being indicted on
multiple charges in multipleplaces, and you know, of course
there's probably people sittingin prison or sitting in jail
waiting right now like, hey, whyam I out just moving around in
the same thing.
You know what I mean, right?
(06:54):
So it's like these things,these double step.
They're so blatant sometimesthat it's just again.
It's just where we are rightnow.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So let there be any fuzziness on this whole thing.
I took the cue and looked updouble standard on my handy
dandy internet device and itsays a double standard is the
application of different sets ofprinciples for situations that
are, in principle, the same.
It's often used to describetreatment whereby one group is
(07:25):
given more latitude and most tocertain ethnicities being judged
more harshly than others.
Well, well, well now isn'tthere about 16 weeks worth of
conversations right there?
And again I will point out thedouble standards.
What makes them so powerful iswe don't want to admit that they
(07:47):
exist.
We do not.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
We talked about this in our first couple of podcasts
and we were talking about, youknow, white privilege.
You know if that is not adouble standard in a sense, you
know, and where it's like wherewe had this or race versus the
other, same exact set of rules,same exact set of principles,
but this person is going to getthe automatic upper hand just
(08:10):
because of the color of the skin.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, yeah.
And if you don't, if you don'twant to admit that it exists?
Because I think where a lot offolks that I know get hung up is
when you talk about things likewhite privilege, they
immediately put it to theirlives and want to rationalize
that, well, I don't have whiteprivilege.
I had to work for everything Ihave.
(08:34):
I'm, you know, I'm hardworking.
I don't want people gettingsomething for doing nothing, you
know.
So tell me what privileges Ihave.
And the problem with thatarticle, that argument, honestly
, is that we cannot know.
We have to, as white people, Ithink we have to come to grips
with the fact that we cannotknow what white privilege looks
(08:56):
like because we're white, youknow.
It's just.
It's like saying you know, Iknow what stupid people are and
you know who they are, but I'mnot stupid.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I look at it from a treatment standpoint.
You know, you are like, say, aperson, just say you are the
white person in the line and theperson is taking care of you
with your items in the checkout,and then there's a person of
color behind you Turn around andsee if they get the same
treatment you do.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That'd be a great indicator.
Just turn around and see ifthey get the same treatment you
do.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Right?
Well, take a bow Walking alongthe streets.
Any ladies that are out theretell me if you are walking along
the street and you see a blackman coming along the opposite
direction, do you responddifferently than you would if it
was a white guy?
You know, statistically you'reprobably in more danger with the
(09:52):
white guy because there's ahigher percentage overall of you
know problems there if you takeit across the spectrum.
But it's also more dangerousbecause you're probably not
going to be looking for it interms of the trouble coming up.
It's a tough nut for people tocrack and realize.
You know, I have no way ofknowing what white privilege
(10:16):
looks like.
I just don't.
It's like me saying I knowexactly how a woman feels.
Oh, my God, sweetheart, I knowexactly how you feel.
You want to have a big problemwith a woman telling them that
once you know, telling them youknow exactly how they feel, you
will find yourself in a wholelot of trouble, and rightly so,
because I don't know.
As a man I can never knowcompletely and I got to fess up
(10:39):
to that and deal with it and becompassionate and say I can't
understand.
I wish I could.
I don't understand what you'regoing through.
But please, please, help me, tohelp you, please help me to
understand more of it so that Ican maybe see it a little bit
better, more clearly.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, you know, like I said a little bit ago, just
like you know, when we talkabout double standards they're
so deeply ingrained in thefabric of the country is that
when you call it out, you know,rather than again admitting that
there may be, a person can knowit's wrong but in today's world
will double down on the lie andget angry versus just saying
(11:23):
yeah, I was wrong on that or Ido acknowledge that.
And that's where we are as acountry, as a people, right now.
You know it's like that doublestandard, that privilege or
whatever people want, whateverupper hand they can get in this,
in this stage of the country, Iwould say, you know, of course
we just have to get back to theunity piece.
(11:44):
We got to get back to theloving people piece of things.
Because, you know, like, whenwe actually remove double
standards, these hypocriticalways, you know, if we remove all
those things, you know weactually come into loving people
, we come into unity, equity andinclusion and all these other
(12:04):
things will actually becomeautomatic.
You know, and I think if we canjust simply admit faults, admit
wrongs, and we'd be on theright track to things.
But you know, getting thesedouble standards, you know
they're to the benefit of someand not to others, you know, and
of course, like when you pointout, again, you point out that
double standard, you get a tonof what abouts.
(12:27):
Well, what about this, whatabout that, what about?
And it's like, yeah, what aboutit?
You know, but the thing is, I'mpointing out this one thing
that is actually wrong, and weboth know it's wrong, but yet
you want to have the audacity todefend the point and but then
again it's like, you know, thenyou can't really argue the point
because you know there's a oldsaying it's like don't argue
with a fool, because the peoplefrom afar won't know who the
(12:48):
fool is.
So you just, again, it's just,you get what we see in this.
People just get ground intosome form of submission in the
double standards stand or theyjust go like, oh well, you know,
you see me trying to deal withthat, you know, and that's where
we are.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I saw a meme a while back that said don't argue with
stupid people because they'llwear you down to their level and
then they'll beat you withexperience.
So that doesn't that answer alot of issues.
But no, and I don't know, youknow to, I don't know how to
(13:28):
argue anymore with people thatjust don't want to get it.
You know, it's just, I don'tknow that we we do ourselves any
service by arguing with someonethat is completely shut down to
looking at things in adifferent light, to understand
that.
You know, the world is not justas I see it.
(13:50):
The world is a place with manydifferent viewpoints.
The play the world is a placewith many different backgrounds
and you know, ethnicities,nations and all of those
rightfully so, have developedtheir own perspective, sometimes
on a national level, sometimeson an individual level,
(14:13):
sometimes on a group or aculture level, and those are all
valid.
So I don't understand and Idon't know how to get past the
fact that we can justacknowledge that this is how I
see it.
But that's just how I see it.
And where we really grow, wherewe learn and really start to
(14:34):
feel like life is bigger than meor you or whatnot, is when we
share that in a respectful wayand then learn the other
person's perspective in arespectful way and we find the
commonalities, we find thethings that are similar, we find
the things that are universallyaccepted as being important.
(14:57):
You know, it's I don't think.
I don't think there's a bigproblem with getting this.
So when we talk about thesewords like inclusion, and some
people are like, oh God,inclusion.
I'm so tired of hearing aboutinclusion.
It's like, well, yeah, maybeyou don't like the way it's been
presented, but the idea ofconclusion, inclusion is really
(15:20):
a wonderful thing If everyonefelt that they could be included
in whatever is going on, thatin.
And not talking aboutparticipation awards OK, not
talking about that.
Talking about being welcomedinto the group and being
respected for having somethingvalid to offer.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And the best part about that's a great point, that
we're talking about inclusion.
Just like you say, take adifferent mindset on it, like
what can I learn?
What can I learn, what can Iapply to my life to make it
better?
You know, in the course whenyou were just talking, you made
another great point.
You know it's like we, I guess,when we talk about how do you
argue with someone with adifferent viewpoint, and it is,
(15:58):
you're right, it's almost likeyou just want to give up, like
you know it ain't no use.
But it's like you know theBible tells us, you know it's in
Romans 12, us starting aroundverse 9 or 10.
It says like yield to oneanother and brotherly kindness
yield.
No one wants to yield, even ifit's just to say, okay, I'm
gonna hear you out.
(16:19):
No one wants to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And and that's where we have to at least get to that
stage where you'll hear theother person out, you know yeah,
yeah, you think about yieldingand and traffic detours, or you
know when lanes have to mergeand it's so interesting to me
because I, you know, you watchand the vast majority of people
are trying to play by the rulesand merge.
(16:43):
And you know a lot of them arereally foresightful and can see
it.
You know a mile or so down theway and they start merging right
away.
They get it.
They know this is the deal, youknow, and as you're getting
down there to the last, you know10 cars worth of length to
everybody getting into one lanesome yahoo or a series of
yahoo's will come streaming downthe road on the shoulder and
(17:06):
Push themselves right into thepoint where you can't you have
to let them in and I just, Iswear to God, I want so much to
have like a steel beam on thebottom of my car that I can
press a button and that thingwill flip out with like, like a
gate and just cause their wholecard.
It is like stop and have themflip out.
And I, you know, I just havethis vision of either that or a
(17:29):
laser blaster where I can justgo In.
Their whole car just goes boom,because it's just such a?
They don't yield, they don'tknow, they think there's a
double standard.
I don't have to wait, I'm muchtoo important, I have an
important appointment to get to.
Well, thanks, yahoo, I'm goingfaster than you do, right.
Right, I have a nicer car,can't you see, with my nice car,
(17:49):
I'm not the kind of person thatwaits, and and that doesn't I
mean you can be in a vote, beatup Volkswagen and have the same
mentality I, you know, don'tmean to make it anything other
than a mindset that says I don'thave to wait, I don't have to
participate, I don't.
These rules don't apply to mebecause there's a double
standard, right?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
and, and you know it's like when you were talking
about that last part, you gaveme a PTSD, because every time
I'm on my way to the office inAppleton on 41 South, you know,
at a certain point, just a fewmiles of the road, you start to
get these signs saying the leftlane is gonna end and but for
some reason, that is the okayI'm, I got a get in front of you
(18:31):
lane.
It's like it's like you'retrying to jump Six or seven cars
instead of just falling on inline.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, you know yeah, it's not amazing, like the on
ramps too, you know, there's thepeople that wait their turn and
come in behind the traffic.
And there's those people thatjust zip in there and they're
gonna get, even if there'sinches between you and them.
They just they're pulling rightin front of you and they're
gonna they're getting on thefreeway, get out of my way.
And you just you wonder what?
(18:57):
That's the?
That's the part of our brainsthat has to somehow be suspended
so that we can say you knowwhat?
Yeah, there's gonna be yahoo's,there's, there's goofballs that
break the rules.
It just is.
But I'm not gonna be that guy,I'm not gonna be that person.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Right, and you know where this is amazing?
You know, of course, like howyou know we talk about, like,
say, double standard, and youcould just quick flip talk about
entitlement, right?
Mm-hmm you know the, thebiggest behavior of biggest
behaviors of entitlement I getis from older people.
Typically you say oh, theyounger generation, they feel so
entitled.
No, I, I Get it from olderpeople.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Wait a minute.
I'm older.
Does that mean I'm entitled tostuff that I'm not been good?
Yeah, well, you know, thinkabout it all that I might 10%
off coffee at McDonald's, youknow, or whatever.
The dollar.
I forget that.
Keep seeing these articles.
I guess they know now that I'min my 60s, keep seeing these
things.
You know those, those seniorbenefits that you probably don't
know about?
And it's like, oh, okay, I meanI went to the grocery store not
(20:01):
too long ago and realized thatWednesday was seniors day, so I
could save 10% on all mygroceries.
And the girl that serves is areyou a senior?
And like, oh, bless you.
Yes, yes, I am.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But you know, is that that feel the need that they
don't have to wait, yeah, yeahwell, they deserve it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Right, they deserve it.
That's that whole entitlementidea is I deserve this, I worked
hard, whatever, and now I'mgonna make sure that I get every
single thing coming to me.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And I'm not talking about senior citizens, like you
know, like a 70 plus, but I'mtalking about that, that in our
age range, that 50 to 70 ish,late 60s, whatever yeah yeah,
we're just.
It's like I'm just gonna bogartmy way through this.
It's like I don't know how manytimes I'll be in woodmines.
(20:54):
I'm like, I'm, you know, like,and it's like you see me
standing in this line, right?
Yeah, you know.
Oh, I didn't like.
You thought I wasn't gonna sayanything.
Yeah and and it's like, but yeah, it's like these double
standards.
You know they're a part of,they're part of our lives, but
what's the double standard thatdrives you the most nuts,
antoine?
(21:14):
Well, again, it's a differenceof treatments.
You know like I use thispopular food Store as an example
.
You know, again, it's like ainline.
You know they're just adifferential treatment.
But one one instance inparticular and my wife and I
both experienced this on indifferent weeks, same thing,
(21:36):
different weeks where you payfor something with cash.
It's like you'll see the personin front of you, they'll pay,
money is put right, the money istaken from their hand, put back
in their hand, the money istaken.
I put the money in thecashier's hand and she sets it
on the counter or she sets it onthe floor and I'm like I put
the money in your hand, can youput it back in mine?
(21:58):
I got a no.
Now I got a fumble aroundtrying to grab coins off of this
surface when you could havejust put it in my hand, and it's
was just those forms ofdifferential treatment.
It's a is where it just kind ofburns my toast and then again
but you know it's like it issome of these things are so
deliberate and intentional thatthey are to get a reaction, and
(22:19):
then it's like they want thereaction to justify the
stereotype, and so that's whereit's.
Just, I have to be mindful of,and so it just it just one of
those things that we was likewow, the person intended to do
this to get a Desired impact isalmost like an antagonization.
Intagonizing type of behavioris so.
(22:41):
I know we get the most of thatin customer service.
You know, like I mentioned thisat an event in Salt County once
, how there's a couple of placesin a certain city that my wife
and I, we just would never goback to because of how we were
treated there.
You know, in the course, in thecourse I greatly want to put
(23:02):
those places on blast, but in aquarter law, to be my word
against theirs, our word againsttheirs, oh yeah, but it's like
yeah, and so it's like, and then, of course.
And then someone was like yeah,they can get you for Slander
too.
And it's like oh, I ain't,finna, try to go to a court
battle just to Point out.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Know how crappy this ownership and their staff is
yeah, well, and then that,because you are trying to be
respectful and protect yourself,then it becomes oh, I never
happened, then because you won'tsee where it happened, so it
didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's like well, there's more to it Right,
exactly, and of course, again,it's like nothing better in the
world and I would love to callout no, some nonsense like that
right and and just maybe a Oneday I just may.
Yeah, well, you know.
Again, it's like I say this isjust.
I know I jokingly say this, butit's like I think you know,
(23:59):
when a person, no kind of, I'mnot easily offended, you know, I
Don't care what you say or doto me, but just you, leave my
wife alone, don't disrespect mywife, don't hurt my wife.
You know what I mean.
Just Okay, what you say or doto me, but don't grieve my wife.
That's where the problems start.
I'm gonna say until youDisrespect my wife, yeah.
(24:23):
Well, you know, and he's stillworking on me on that- and
there's a.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
It's interesting because that you know that I
mentioned the whole deal.
If we can't know what it is forwomen either.
I had my haircut actually, allof them I did have.
Well, I was gonna just have onecut and I thought, oh, I'm here
, I'll just have all of them cut.
And so the, the woman that doesmy haircuts is just, she's a
younger gal, I think about thesame age as my son, so maybe mid
(24:50):
late 20s, and she was tellingme how she was, had just taken a
trip to Mexico, and there wereall these guys that were telling
her you be careful.
Now in Mexico, you know apretty girl like you, be, be
careful.
And she said, you know,multiple guys said that to me
and it really bothered me andit's really why?
And she said, well, becausebeing in the United States is
(25:14):
scarier than going to Mexico.
I mean, I'm probably, I feelmore at risk, at danger, in the
United States than I do there.
And then, on top of that, whoare they to say I should be
careful?
You know what?
I'm not their property thatthey have to make sure I'm
taking care of, so that I comeback to them?
I thought, boy, that you know, Inever would have thought, ever
(25:36):
that, would have thought thatthat would be taken that way.
But again, hello Duh, I can'tknow what it's like, just like
my, my daughter taught me yearsago too.
I there was a some guys doingconstruction work at our
neighbors next door and she hadasked them to do something.
And they just, yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Well then, when I got home atlunchtime she told me about the
(25:58):
whole thing and I said, okay,let me go talk to them.
I went and talked to them and,sure enough, they did right away
what she had been asking themto do.
But because she, you know, hadtwo of those in one of them and
you're like what, what is thedeal?
So it's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
It's everywhere Just like the the same.
I guess the same men that weretelling uh, that young lady to
be careful in Mexico is probablytelling the young fellas go get
them.
Yeah.
Yeah don't hold back, go, havefun yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Uh yeah, and it it's just it speaks to Just how
ingrained that stuff is.
I don't I don't think anyonemeant anything by it.
I mean, I don't know, I guess Idon't think necessarily met
anything nasty, but we don'thave the perspective, you know
it.
We don't understand what it'slike to be in the position where
You're constantly dealt theseslights that in and of
(26:54):
themselves maybe aren't such abig deal, but you start
compounding the interest onthose slights and it becomes a
big deal.
And we have to respect that,because I, you know my, I think
one of my pet peeves is notfeeling respected, not feeling
like I'm included in Decisionsor whatnot.
(27:15):
Or you know that I'm some I getthis a lot where I'm kind of, uh
, kind of downrated because ofmy theater background.
You know.
So I'm, I'm so such anemotional guy, you know, and
like, yeah, I am, I mean, we'reall emotional, so what?
You're not emotional?
You know, you're one of thoseautomaton guys that keeps it all
(27:35):
inside because you're strong,and then it comes out in some
weird display of anger,frustration.
You know, you kick the dog orwhatever, I don't know, but it
just it always bugs me becauseit's when you use somebody's
personal traits as a reason toput them down.
It's, you know, and what isthis you know racism thing about
(28:00):
?
It's a personal trait that youknow your skin is black.
So I should put you downbecause of that?
I should, I should treat youdifferently because of that.
What really, seriously?
What is that?
I?
I don't get it.
I mean, what is what is wrongwith us that we can use
(28:22):
something as as Reallyinconsequential overall?
I mean, the color of a person'sskin Should be relatively like
do they have a beard or not?
I mean, really, at the end ofthe day, because it tells you
virtually nothing.
I mean, I think a beard tellsyou more about a person than
whether or not they're black orwhite.
Honestly, I mean, I could, youknow, say, well, he wants to
(28:43):
take care of that every day.
Okay, good, good deal, yeah,all right, or what's under that
beard, buddy?
So?
But when I so, I don't get it.
It's like why, why did we pickthat?
Why?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, you know, it's like when we were talking about
a second ago about how do wedeal with, uh, double standards,
you know, and that's just uh,again, it's uh, how do we deal
with it?
You know, and it's like callthem out, you know going, but
it's like you know we have tohave.
You know, it starts with ushaving some like say, regardless
of the situation, there has tobe some kind of clarity on the
(29:19):
purpose of why we're here or whywe're doing this thing.
You know, we'd know, um, I'vekind of Prayed about, like, our
theme for next year and uh, it'slike, uh, we're going to be
talking about doing lifetogether and uh, so that's uh,
one of the possibilities thatI'm thinking about.
But doing life, you know, we asWhite, black, green, yellow,
blue, purple, whatever, uh,doing life together, having
(29:43):
clarity of purpose, right,having a clear purpose on why
we're here.
And then it's like you know,what are we, our, what are we
supposed to do while we're here?
What are we doing for thecollective good of people?
And I just want to, if we cansimplify some things in this
life, I think we can kind of getrid of the double standards of
(30:04):
manipulation and and and justthese other kind of things.
You know, and it's just goingto start with, uh, people
willing to.
You know, we got two ears inone mouth, right.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Which one did god?
Intend you to use more Reasonso?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
because you know, like, we're in a space and time
where, like again, like uh, youcan point out some obvious
Double standards and people willtake offense that you pointed
it out.
You know, of course, we weretalking about this a couple
weeks ago as well.
It's like, you know, when youpoint out a problem, you become
the issue right, right, andthat's what we are.
(30:47):
You know, it's like how dareyou tell me I'm wrong when I
know I'm wrong, but I'm gonnakeep doing what I know is wrong
because it benefits me.
But you, yet you point out tome that I'm doing wrong to
benefit me.
And how dare you do that?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I just read a story about that.
There was some research done inthe 50s and it's where the idea
of cognitive dissonance came up.
So look that up sometime.
Cognitive dissonance.
And what happens is they foundthat people who had aligned
themselves and they used theexample of doomsday preachers,
(31:21):
that there have been recurrentissues where a doomsday preacher
will come out and will say theworld is going to end on July 15
, 1988.
And July 18 comes along, or15th comes along, and the world
doesn't end.
So most people, a lot of peopleat that point will say oh, it
was a crackpot.
But there are also people thathave invested a lot of time and
(31:42):
energy in that person, in thatministry, in that, you know,
preparing themselves.
They've gotten the doomsdaykits or whatever.
Or they prepared their families, shut themselves off from
friends that they don't want tohave attachments to because the
end is coming, and then itdoesn't happen.
So then you have this thingcalled cognitive dissonance,
(32:04):
where the thing that you builtall of this belief on doesn't
happen.
And if you're going to dealwith the fact that that didn't
happen, it takes a lot of workbecause you have to go to
yourself somehow Wow, why did Ibelieve that?
What was I thinking?
What?
What else has been wrong here?
(32:25):
How else have I made mistakeshere?
There's a lot of soul searchingthat goes in and instead of
doing that, we will a largepercentage of us will say well,
pastor, something must have gonewrong, they must have been Well
.
So the end of the world iscoming.
When do you think it's coming?
Did we get the date wrong?
Were we doing something wrongthat the Lord didn't bring?
(32:48):
The last day and this is yesthe Lord revealed to me that we
did have the wrong day.
The real date is February 18,2022.
And then we wait again for itto happen and then, when it
happens, it doesn't happen again.
Now you've got an even morehunkering down group of people
(33:08):
that are convinced that it's notbecause the person that's
spewing out this stuff is wrong.
It's because something else ishappening to make it not happen.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Wow, and that's a great point.
You know, of course, likepeople use those kind of double
standards and arguments tomanipulate others and get them
so defensive, and so I don'tknow how to say defensive and
committed.
Deluded, they lose.
I had to what the actualargument was about, what the
actual purpose of theconversation was about.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Right, right, I mean a little kid comes in and says
Dad, dad, dad, there's a rapidwolf outside.
You know, and you go outsideand there's no wolf to be found
anywhere.
And she says no, daddy was here, was here.
Well, he's not here now.
And you go back in the house ina couple days.
There, dad, dad, there's a madwolf outside.
You go out again, there's nomad wolf.
You know, like Billy, we needto have a talk about what a mad
(34:03):
wolf looks like and stop comingin and telling me unless there's
really a mad wolf.
Well then, you know, three dayslater, there is a mad wolf
comes running and saying Dad,dad, there's a mad wolf.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go away, go away.
The kid gets eaten.
Right, I mean it's.
You've heard this story in adifferent realm, but it is the
same deal that it's interestingthat we we don't have any
problem with those simple tales,but we get sucked up in things
(34:28):
all the time.
Amway, I probably shouldn't saythat, but you know they're
there.
It's used as a joke a lot oftimes, but there are product
lines that people becomecommitted to.
They invest a whole bunch ofmoney in it and then, when stump
comes up to say that's reallynot as good as they're saying it
is.
You know those, those studiesare just biased.
Those are that's done byresearchers that don't know what
(34:50):
they're talking about.
This stuff is excellent.
I've used it for years and it'swonderful.
Well, if we've got that kind ofcognitive dissonance over a
shampoo or whatever, imagine howmuch more cognitive dissonance
we're going to experience whenit's a person that we've
identified, that we feelidentifies with us and
(35:10):
understands our fears and ourconcerns, and you know what,
what's important to us.
How much harder is it to turnaway from that and say you're
wrong and I was wrong forfollowing you.
Time to move on.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Well, we're living that out right now, brother,
when we look at what's happeningin on the news and in this
current political environment,you know where a person won't
admit they're wrong and a personwon't admit they're wrong for
following, and Well, you'veeliminated all of the things
that would help right fake media.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
So well, now, how are we supposed to know what's
really going on?
Where is, where is the non fakemedia?
The non fake media is the stuffthat I agree with, that's non
fake.
Well, I mean, I've had thatargument with friends of mine.
In many instances were saidWell, that's one side that
you're getting.
What about the other side?
How do you know they're not?
(36:08):
There's some truth on that sidetoo.
How do you know they're justbunch of liars?
Well, that's convenient, isn'tit, to just wipe it all off that
way.
But the what's?
The old Emerson phrase, thevehemence of my opponent's
argument convinces me that I amperhaps just a little bit wrong
and he is perhaps a little bitright.
(36:29):
So I don't know how else totypify that.
But if you can't admit that Idon't know the whole thing, I
haven't.
I do not know what's in DonaldTrump's mind.
I do not know what is in JohnJoe Biden's mind, I do not know,
I cannot know.
And if I'm going to say, builda whole spectrum of hates and
(36:53):
angers and vehemence and youknow, nastiness based on
something I can't know, I mean,how silly is that?
Think about it for a second.
How silly is that?
When I have you right in frontof me, I can't know.
I can't know what you'veexperienced with African
Americans experience on a dailybasis.
I cannot know that.
(37:15):
But I can know you, I can getto know you and I can share.
You can share your experienceswith me.
I can hopefully understand.
I can you know.
It's not like it's I have tosay, oh my God, on behalf of all
white people, I'm so sorry,antoine.
I can't do that either, but Ican say I will do what I can.
I want to do what I can becausewhat's happening to you and to
(37:38):
I in this country is not good,it's not right.
We're Americans, darn it.
We can do better than this.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
We can, and it's like it's almost like when it comes
to these double standards.
You know what is actuallybehind it.
You know what mental capacityis behind it, what agenda is
behind it, what strategy isbehind it.
It's just what is going on inthe background that you just
(38:08):
don't know about.
You know, selling more big.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Macs selling more big Macs.
That's what's behind it.
So we're going to no, sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
But you know what I mean.
It's like you know, there's allit's almost.
There is an intent behind thisthing Because, again, like if we
both can say hey, wow, that'swrong, but another person, like
say two people can say a thingis wrong, no, it's wrong, but
the other person will defendthat wrong versus the other
person and say why don't youjust call it out for what it is?
(38:38):
And that's where, kind of wherewe are, and rather than admit
that we're wrong, you know, ofcourse there's that pride of
life where we say no, what Iknow.
A person won't say I've been a,I've been an idiot for doing
this or that or the other forthe last 10, 20 years or
whatever.
No, they'll double down on thefact that they just just wish
(39:01):
who I am and what I do andversus just saying Wow, I was
wrong.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, pulling out all kinds of research articles that
support what you believe.
You know this is scary ofwhat's to come to.
I follow a little bit Probablyshould look at it more but the
whole idea of artificialintelligence.
And Google has a new productthat they're they have in beta
(39:26):
testing right now called Bard,and so Bard like Shakespeare,
the great Bard, right, bard isdesigned and is capable of
having read basically everythinganywhere.
I mean, I don't know if youremember a while back, google
did a thing with basicallyscanning any book that they
could get a hold of, scanning itin and becoming Google books,
(39:50):
and so that getting that wealth,that reservoir has now enabled
them.
They had a long term plan, I'msure, to develop this AI product
, and the AI product is sosophisticated already that the
interviewer was able to ask Ishould go back and look at this.
There was a series of eventswhere he just gave like three
(40:13):
words or five words and the AIwas able to tell the story of
what those five words were aboutand turned it into a poem.
They had just, you know,different ways of tell the pros
of it and the AI came up with anincredible, you know, story
that explained that sentence andthen came up with a poem that
(40:35):
explained that sentence.
But the scary one, scariest onewas that there was a research
paper that it presented thatquoted articles that did not
exist, quoted research that hadnever happened.
So it was so sophisticated thatit not only came up with a
bunch of lies but it came upwith sophisticated support for
(41:00):
those lies.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Did you hear about the lawyer that used AI to
create a deposition, orsomething like that?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, the AI based it on court cases that did not
exist, or something like that,yeah yeah, it's exactly the same
idea and they talk about thosethings as being things that they
have to sort out in theprogramming.
But I mean, at some point wehave to kind of take a look at
ourselves and say, ok, well,computers figured out that we do
(41:28):
this all the time, so they'vegot access to all of the media
and all of the subject matterout there.
So let's say, oh, it seems likeyou know, having factual basis
to your you know your referencesis really inconsequential.
We just come up with things andmake it sound intelligent
enough and people will buy that.
It's real research.
So, and we brought that outourselves.
(41:50):
So there are researchers thatare out there making up false
conclusions.
And you know statisticians thatare saying well, three out of
four people recommend that youuse blah, blah, blah.
And it's like well, which threeout of four people did you test
?
And you know, was it where?
Did you screen them ahead oftime and say do you like this?
Yeah, I do.
Ok, well, you can be in thetest then.
(42:11):
So it's just so easy tomanipulate the truth to fit what
you want it to fit.
And there again the doublestandard.
It's OK for me to modify thetruth because I have a good
purpose in doing that.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And then, of course, the state of Florida is a
perfect example of that.
They want to modify the truthof the history of slavery and
say that oh yeah, it was aprivilege for black people, it
was a skill building and allthese different kind of things.
And it's amazing how we can puta spin on a thing to make it
fit how we wanted to do, how wewanted to be.
But you know, again, it's likeyou know, when we're talking
(42:49):
about double standards, you knowit's just like.
I guess I don't want to say Iguess I know that these things
they have to be.
We have to start meeting themhead on.
We have to meet them in themost intelligent way, without
because again a person willargue 10 ways around Sunday to
get you off of the actual point.
And that's where we are.
(43:10):
Like you know, like doublestandards in schools, that this
just can't exist anymore.
You know double standards andvoting rights it just can't
exist anymore.
You know.
Even, look at how the now, likewith the colleges and
universities, they stopaffirmative action based
(43:33):
admissions, but yet they stillwant to keep legacy admissions.
You know what I mean.
It's these things.
They have to be met head on,and that's where I am, you know.
I just like I don't want to bethe angry black guy in the room
all the time, but it's like.
It's like you can't help butcall out the wrong, you know,
and yes, and am I going to bethat brunt of the, depending on
(43:57):
who I'm around?
I'm a catch it from some, but,but most you'd like to think
that a reasonable minds willprevail or just open minds will
just listen to reason.
I mean, and that's where I am,I know, of course, a lot of
these things.
They're just that doublestandard, that sense of
entitlement.
(44:17):
You know I'm wrong, You'rewrong, I'm right.
That narcissistic personalitydisorder that we see is like a
person argue you down, they'llground you into dust to prove
that point, and we just we haveto stop letting stuff slide, so
to speak.
I mean, but we have to figureout a way to do it the right way
(44:38):
, like you were saying earlier.
You know it's like how do wedeal with this?
You know, and so I guess that'sthat's my prayer going into,
you know, later this week.
Just Lord, how do we deal withdealing with double standards?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, call them out, right, Look for them.
You know, I don't I don'tpretend to see all the double
standards that are in front ofme, and I would like to be able
to see them.
Cs Lewis has a wonderful bookwhere he talks about it's
(45:16):
basically an analogy of thepeople on a ship to heaven.
And when they, when they're onthe trip, they, you know,
initially, you know the light isso bright and it's painful, and
they step out onto the grassand the grass leaves are so
(45:37):
sharp and just just souncomfortable walking on and
they're just, oh my God, thiscan't be heaven, this is
terrible, this is, oh my gosh,we're going to suffer forever
and ever.
But as time goes on, the grassbecomes the most pleasant, silky
, wonderful, comfortable, cool,fresh, wonderful grass ever, and
(46:00):
the sun becomes this incrediblybeautifully warming, perfect,
you know, beacon of light thatit makes everything rich in
color and saturates.
And you know just thiswonderful analogy about how we
would see heaven through ourearthly eyes and, as time goes
(46:20):
along, learn to see it withheavenly eyes, and I see that
with our, I think.
You know, I hope ourdiscussions are kind of a way to
kind of see things differently,to be able to understand that
what seems so uncomfortable isjust part of walking towards
what we can be.
(46:40):
It's part of embracing what hasbeen and realizing what has
been and turning to seesomething better, even though it
might not seem like it's betterat first, but it's the right
thing, so just move towards it.
I don't know, I'm doing a lousyjob.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
So no, no, no, healing.
Healing hurts, right, yeah, youknow, healing hurts you, you,
you.
I burn myself with some cookingoil just a little bit back, and
it just it hurt for a few daysand then it it's like crazy for
a few days and it's like I'm gotcampofonique and cocoa butter
(47:22):
and all these things slaveringit up and it was just a very
uncomfortable for a few days butit's getting better and you're
probably not going to not cookanymore just because you got
burned with some cooking oil,right?
Right, I wish I could never haveto cook again.
But you want to eat?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, I wouldn't mind having somebody cook for me.
I'm, I'm, I'm all over that, so, but cooking is fun we have
this thing in my wife and I.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
we have a thing.
It's pretty simple Whoever getshome first just start cooking.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
That's a good arrangement.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Whoever gets home first, just start.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
I would not do well at that arrangement.
I would be oh, I'll do ittomorrow.
I'm really tired tonight.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, youplayed the real tired tonight
for 314 days.
Buddy, Get in there and cooksomething.
So that would be me.
But hey, man, always, always,always.
Just I feel like we'vescratched the tip of the iceberg
(48:21):
, but yeah, and it's just like abut you.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
You pose a question how do we address and deal with
them in a way that'sconstructive and where you're
not bashing a person over thehead, you're not saying, look,
you're wrong, it's just pointingout the difference in the
behavior or the attitude or theproblem, just pointing that
difference out in a way where itcould be understood and seen
(48:46):
and just uh, that's where we areand, of course, that's a you
know part of the problem with asociety.
Now we don't know how to talk,right?
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Civilly, especially so we can, we can have
discussions without having themturned into arguments
immediately.
So, and being willing to acceptmaybe I am wrong, maybe I am.
Let me hear what you have tosay.
Hmm, okay, yes, I hadn'tthought of it.
(49:15):
If nothing else, if nothingelse, you come out thinking I
hadn't thought of it that way.
Those are beautiful words.
I like those words.
I like you know that's a,that's a sign of a healing
nation.
I never thought of it that way.
Hmm, hmm, hmm, you, you, youtake care of yourself there.
Okay, buddy, you take care ofyourself there.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
You too, you too, sir , and a happy again.
Happy anniversary last.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, thank you, I got that going for me too.
37 years of marriage.
This woman's been married to me.
What is she thinking?
37 years, yeah, she's probablyseeing herself it's 37 too many,
so but I'm gonna ask Ann thatyeah.
Yeah, she'll say you said whatso?
But no, she has been a blessingin so many ways.
(50:03):
I can tell you for certain Iwould not be a decent person in
any way, shape or form if itwasn't for her, she, she has
brought out all the best in me,sometimes with me fighting and
kicking and screaming all theway, but she has brought out the
very best in me.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
So it's a good thing.
Congratulations, man, 37 yearsman, congratulations.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
I'm heading strong.
Hopefully I got another 37 left.
But, boy, they better make meinto AI before that, because I
don't think I'm going to bemoving around much at that age.
All right, dude, see you nextweek.
See you, man.
Same bat time, same bat channelhere on.
What's our show called again,do you remember?
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Frame of reference coming together.
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Coming together.
You come together with us folksnext week, same time, same
place, whatever and look fordouble standards, see ya.
Let's have it.
Hey, hey, hey, everybody, it'sthat time again, frame of
reference coming together.
My name is Antoine Hall, missy,and I'm here with my friend, my
brother, raoul Lebrich.
Raoul, the Fresh Lebrich right.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's right.
I'm so fresh.
I'm like a can of freshlypicked up Del Monte beans.
Yes, I am.
You open me up.
You open up that can go.
Whoa, that is a fresh bean.
That is a fresh bean in so manyways Right.
So, oh my God, I just blew thesound stuff right off the
(00:49):
spectrum here, so we're going togo back and probably go.
What the heck was he doing?
Because he just clipped thatbaby out like nobody's business.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right, and yeah, in the course frame of reference
coming together, of course, yougot old white guy, old black guy
coming together, just reallysharing.
We both strive for unity andloving people, but also we bring
together different points ofview on some things and we hope
(01:19):
to be an example of what itwould look like when different
groups, people with differentideologies, backgrounds, racist
colors, creeds, whateverreligions even, can just come in
and not just to say, oh, weagree to disagree, but to
actually talk it out.
To talk it out to say, hey, Ihear your point, and then, and
(01:41):
even be able to admittedly say,hey, yeah, I used to think this
way about a thing, I did notknow that.
And even just to say, yeah, wow, I've been wrong.
No, of course, and it's just,this is we strive for this just
to be the beginning of somegreat conversation in our area,
in our country, about justcoming together.
And so, of course, no, raoul,my brother here, came up with a
(02:05):
great topic for today doublestandards, double standards.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
There's no double standard here.
We treat everyone fairly.
What are you talking?
Double standards?
No, no, no, no, no.
You know, and that's kind ofthe thing about double standards
, isn't it?
Right from the get go, we don'twant to admit that they exist,
you know.
It's just, it's a really weirddeal, like they can be going on,
(02:33):
they can be festering like somepussy wound for years and we
just we kind of say, oh, notpaying no attention to that
pussy wound, it doesn't reallyexist.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And it can in a double standards can become so
ingrained in the fabric of aculture or a situation or a
company or whatever it may be,that it's just overlooked.
I'll give you an example.
I worked for a food distributorfor a lot of years and of
course you know the super, duper, top performers.
They didn't have to come infrom wherever territory they
(03:08):
were in in their sales region tothe sales meetings.
And of course that thing islike hey, if you selling, don't
worry about it.
Or, like you know, like saysthat a good, super, that really
really good athlete.
You know, it's like a littlefootball training camp right now
.
So it's like a lot of theveterans or a lot of the great,
really really good players.
They tend to take practices offand so we'll let it slide, you
(03:34):
know.
And then it's like just so manydifferent forms of a double
standard in these groups.
Today, in that LaBresh fashion,I found a definition for a
double standard.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, there's a.
There's a.
A lot of ways to define, butyou know we think of if you've
got a standard that is, you know, agreed upon.
Let's say, the standard iswe're not going to talk dirty,
okay, we're not going to usenasty words, our, our, our rule
(04:08):
in this family.
You know, mom sets it out, dadsets it out, we will not use
language like that.
And then there's one relativethat just has a foul mouth, has
always had a foul mouth, and youknow, everyone just kind of
takes it in and says you know,well, that's uncle whatever or
aunt blah, blah, blah.
(04:28):
They just talk that way.
There's, there's in lies, adouble standard that all of a
sudden, as a kid, you may sitback and go wait a minute.
We can't talk like that.
Why can uncle so-and-so talkthat way?
Or why, why does aunt such andsuch get away with behaving like
that?
Well, because they're them Okay.
(04:49):
And the thing I was thinking,what you were talking before is
double standards are sointeresting because when it's us
that gets the advantage of thedouble standard, we're cool with
it.
When it's somebody else thatgets the advantage of it, it's
absolutely the worst thingthat's ever happened in the
history of humankind right.
So you sit back and think, allright.
(05:10):
So part of the reason we haveand allow, I think, double
standards is because we know wehave some that we take advantage
of.
I mean, I get to get in thefront of the line at certain
events because I know the guythat takes tickets so and that
drives everyone behind meabsolutely bananas, but it's a
problem.
They got to wait in line, toobad for them, so.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
But if we're in that line watching that, oh boy look
out right, yeah, so that doublestandard, like, of course we
basically judge in our ownbehavior compared to the
behavior of others, that's spent, like you say, when it benefits
us.
It's like if you were standingin that line you'd be like, hey,
but it's you going to the frontof the line.
It's like, oh, it's all right,don't worry about it.
(05:52):
Yeah Well, yeah, like, and.
But yeah, that's, that's a and,of course, basically is just
simply a hey, a rule orprinciple which is unfairly
applied in different ways todifferent people or groups.
You know is a general definitionof it and we see that play out
in the legal system.
We see it play out amongstcorporations and companies and
(06:13):
employers, in schools and justsociety, as in general.
You know we see it and butagain, it's, you know, with the
within the context of ourpodcast here you know we're
talking about.
You know, along the lines ofrace and equity and even like,
(06:34):
say, judicial.
That's a look at what'shappening in the news.
You know we got a very popularperson that's being indicted on
multiple charges in multipleplaces, and you know, of course
there's probably people sittingin prison or sitting in jail
waiting right now like, hey, whyam I out just moving around in
the same thing.
You know what I mean, right?
(06:54):
So it's like these things,these double step.
They're so blatant sometimesthat it's just again.
It's just where we are rightnow.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So let there be any fuzziness on this whole thing.
I took the cue and looked updouble standard on my handy
dandy internet device and itsays a double standard is the
application of different sets ofprinciples for situations that
are, in principle, the same.
It's often used to describetreatment whereby one group is
(07:25):
given more latitude and most tocertain ethnicities being judged
more harshly than others.
Well, well, well now isn'tthere about 16 weeks worth of
conversations right there?
And again I will point out thedouble standards.
What makes them so powerful iswe don't want to admit that they
(07:47):
exist.
We do not.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
We talked about this in our first couple of podcasts
and we were talking about, youknow, white privilege.
You know if that is not adouble standard in a sense, you
know, and where it's like wherewe had this or race versus the
other, same exact set of rules,same exact set of principles,
but this person is going to getthe automatic upper hand just
(08:10):
because of the color of the skin.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, yeah.
And if you don't, if you don'twant to admit that it exists?
Because I think where a lot offolks that I know get hung up is
when you talk about things likewhite privilege, they
immediately put it to theirlives and want to rationalize
that, well, I don't have whiteprivilege.
I had to work for everything Ihave.
(08:34):
I'm, you know, I'm hardworking.
I don't want people gettingsomething for doing nothing, you
know.
So tell me what privileges Ihave.
And the problem with thatarticle, that argument, honestly
, is that we cannot know.
We have to, as white people, Ithink we have to come to grips
with the fact that we cannotknow what white privilege looks
(08:56):
like because we're white, youknow.
It's just.
It's like saying you know, Iknow what stupid people are and
you know who they are, but I'mnot stupid.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I look at it from a treatment standpoint.
You know, you are like, say, aperson, just say you are the
white person in the line and theperson is taking care of you
with your items in the checkout,and then there's a person of
color behind you Turn around andsee if they get the same
treatment you do.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That'd be a great indicator.
Just turn around and see ifthey get the same treatment you
do.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Right?
Well, take a bow Walking alongthe streets.
Any ladies that are out theretell me if you are walking along
the street and you see a blackman coming along the opposite
direction, do you responddifferently than you would if it
was a white guy?
You know, statistically you'reprobably in more danger with the
(09:52):
white guy because there's ahigher percentage overall of you
know problems there if you takeit across the spectrum.
But it's also more dangerousbecause you're probably not
going to be looking for it interms of the trouble coming up.
It's a tough nut for people tocrack and realize.
You know, I have no way ofknowing what white privilege
(10:16):
looks like.
I just don't.
It's like me saying I knowexactly how a woman feels.
Oh, my God, sweetheart, I knowexactly how you feel.
You want to have a big problemwith a woman telling them that
once you know, telling them youknow exactly how they feel, you
will find yourself in a wholelot of trouble, and rightly so,
because I don't know.
As a man I can never knowcompletely and I got to fess up
(10:39):
to that and deal with it and becompassionate and say I can't
understand.
I wish I could.
I don't understand what you'regoing through.
But please, please, help me, tohelp you, please help me to
understand more of it so that Ican maybe see it a little bit
better, more clearly.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, you know, like I said a little bit ago, just
like you know, when we talkabout double standards they're
so deeply ingrained in thefabric of the country is that
when you call it out, you know,rather than again admitting that
there may be, a person can knowit's wrong but in today's world
will double down on the lie andget angry versus just saying
(11:23):
yeah, I was wrong on that or Ido acknowledge that.
And that's where we are as acountry, as a people, right now.
You know it's like that doublestandard, that privilege or
whatever people want, whateverupper hand they can get in this,
in this stage of the country, Iwould say, you know, of course
we just have to get back to theunity piece.
(11:44):
We got to get back to theloving people piece of things.
Because, you know, like, whenwe actually remove double
standards, these hypocriticalways, you know, if we remove all
those things, you know weactually come into loving people
, we come into unity, equity andinclusion and all these other
(12:04):
things will actually becomeautomatic.
You know, and I think if we canjust simply admit faults, admit
wrongs, and we'd be on theright track to things.
But you know, getting thesedouble standards, you know
they're to the benefit of someand not to others, you know, and
of course, like when you pointout, again, you point out that
double standard, you get a tonof what abouts.
(12:27):
Well, what about this, whatabout that, what about?
And it's like, yeah, what aboutit?
You know, but the thing is, I'mpointing out this one thing
that is actually wrong, and weboth know it's wrong, but yet
you want to have the audacity todefend the point and but then
again it's like, you know, thenyou can't really argue the point
because you know there's a oldsaying it's like don't argue
with a fool, because the peoplefrom afar won't know who the
(12:48):
fool is.
So you just, again, it's just,you get what we see in this.
People just get ground intosome form of submission in the
double standards stand or theyjust go like, oh well, you know,
you see me trying to deal withthat, you know, and that's where
we are.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I saw a meme a while back that said don't argue with
stupid people because they'llwear you down to their level and
then they'll beat you withexperience.
So that doesn't that answer alot of issues.
But no, and I don't know, youknow to, I don't know how to
(13:28):
argue anymore with people thatjust don't want to get it.
You know, it's just, I don'tknow that we we do ourselves any
service by arguing with someonethat is completely shut down to
looking at things in adifferent light, to understand
that.
You know, the world is not justas I see it.
(13:50):
The world is a place with manydifferent viewpoints.
The play the world is a placewith many different backgrounds
and you know, ethnicities,nations and all of those
rightfully so, have developedtheir own perspective, sometimes
on a national level, sometimeson an individual level,
(14:13):
sometimes on a group or aculture level, and those are all
valid.
So I don't understand and Idon't know how to get past the
fact that we can justacknowledge that this is how I
see it.
But that's just how I see it.
And where we really grow, wherewe learn and really start to
(14:34):
feel like life is bigger than meor you or whatnot, is when we
share that in a respectful wayand then learn the other
person's perspective in arespectful way and we find the
commonalities, we find thethings that are similar, we find
the things that are universallyaccepted as being important.
(14:57):
You know, it's I don't think.
I don't think there's a bigproblem with getting this.
So when we talk about thesewords like inclusion, and some
people are like, oh God,inclusion.
I'm so tired of hearing aboutinclusion.
It's like, well, yeah, maybeyou don't like the way it's been
presented, but the idea ofconclusion, inclusion is really
(15:20):
a wonderful thing If everyonefelt that they could be included
in whatever is going on, thatin.
And not talking aboutparticipation awards OK, not
talking about that.
Talking about being welcomedinto the group and being
respected for having somethingvalid to offer.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And the best part about that's a great point, that
we're talking about inclusion.
Just like you say, take adifferent mindset on it, like
what can I learn?
What can I learn, what can Iapply to my life to make it
better?
You know, in the course whenyou were just talking, you made
another great point.
You know it's like we, I guess,when we talk about how do you
argue with someone with adifferent viewpoint, and it is,
(15:58):
you're right, it's almost likeyou just want to give up, like
you know it ain't no use.
But it's like you know theBible tells us, you know it's in
Romans 12, us starting aroundverse 9 or 10.
It says like yield to oneanother and brotherly kindness
yield.
No one wants to yield, even ifit's just to say, okay, I'm
gonna hear you out.
(16:19):
No one wants to do that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And and that's where we have to at least get to that
stage where you'll hear theother person out, you know yeah,
yeah, you think about yieldingand and traffic detours, or you
know when lanes have to mergeand it's so interesting to me
because I, you know, you watchand the vast majority of people
are trying to play by the rulesand merge.
(16:43):
And you know a lot of them arereally foresightful and can see
it.
You know a mile or so down theway and they start merging right
away.
They get it.
They know this is the deal, youknow, and as you're getting
down there to the last, you know10 cars worth of length to
everybody getting into one lanesome yahoo or a series of
yahoo's will come streaming downthe road on the shoulder and
(17:06):
Push themselves right into thepoint where you can't you have
to let them in and I just, Iswear to God, I want so much to
have like a steel beam on thebottom of my car that I can
press a button and that thingwill flip out with like, like a
gate and just cause their wholecard.
It is like stop and have themflip out.
And I, you know, I just havethis vision of either that or a
(17:29):
laser blaster where I can justgo In.
Their whole car just goes boom,because it's just such a?
They don't yield, they don'tknow, they think there's a
double standard.
I don't have to wait, I'm muchtoo important, I have an
important appointment to get to.
Well, thanks, yahoo, I'm goingfaster than you do, right.
Right, I have a nicer car,can't you see, with my nice car,
(17:49):
I'm not the kind of person thatwaits, and and that doesn't I
mean you can be in a vote, beatup Volkswagen and have the same
mentality I, you know, don'tmean to make it anything other
than a mindset that says I don'thave to wait, I don't have to
participate, I don't.
These rules don't apply to mebecause there's a double
standard, right?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
and, and you know it's like when you were talking
about that last part, you gaveme a PTSD, because every time
I'm on my way to the office inAppleton on 41 South, you know,
at a certain point, just a fewmiles of the road, you start to
get these signs saying the leftlane is gonna end and but for
some reason, that is the okayI'm, I got a get in front of you
(18:31):
lane.
It's like it's like you'retrying to jump Six or seven cars
instead of just falling on inline.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, you know yeah, it's not amazing, like the on
ramps too, you know, there's thepeople that wait their turn and
come in behind the traffic.
And there's those people thatjust zip in there and they're
gonna get, even if there'sinches between you and them.
They just they're pulling rightin front of you and they're
gonna they're getting on thefreeway, get out of my way.
And you just you wonder what?
(18:57):
That's the?
That's the part of our brainsthat has to somehow be suspended
so that we can say you knowwhat?
Yeah, there's gonna be yahoo's,there's, there's goofballs that
break the rules.
It just is.
But I'm not gonna be that guy,I'm not gonna be that person.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Right, and you know where this is amazing?
You know, of course, like howyou know we talk about, like,
say, double standard, and youcould just quick flip talk about
entitlement, right?
Mm-hmm you know the, thebiggest behavior of biggest
behaviors of entitlement I getis from older people.
Typically you say oh, theyounger generation, they feel so
entitled.
No, I, I Get it from olderpeople.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Wait a minute.
I'm older.
Does that mean I'm entitled tostuff that I'm not been good?
Yeah, well, you know, thinkabout it all that I might 10%
off coffee at McDonald's, youknow, or whatever.
The dollar.
I forget that.
Keep seeing these articles.
I guess they know now that I'min my 60s, keep seeing these
things.
You know those, those seniorbenefits that you probably don't
know about?
And it's like, oh, okay, I meanI went to the grocery store not
(20:01):
too long ago and realized thatWednesday was seniors day, so I
could save 10% on all mygroceries.
And the girl that serves is areyou a senior?
And like, oh, bless you.
Yes, yes, I am.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But you know, is that that feel the need that they
don't have to wait, yeah, yeahwell, they deserve it.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Right, they deserve it.
That's that whole entitlementidea is I deserve this, I worked
hard, whatever, and now I'mgonna make sure that I get every
single thing coming to me.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
And I'm not talking about senior citizens, like you
know, like a 70 plus, but I'mtalking about that, that in our
age range, that 50 to 70 ish,late 60s, whatever yeah yeah,
we're just.
It's like I'm just gonna bogartmy way through this.
It's like I don't know how manytimes I'll be in woodmines.
(20:54):
I'm like, I'm, you know, like,and it's like you see me
standing in this line, right?
Yeah, you know.
Oh, I didn't like.
You thought I wasn't gonna sayanything.
Yeah and and it's like, but yeah, it's like these double
standards.
You know they're a part of,they're part of our lives, but
what's the double standard thatdrives you the most nuts,
antoine?
(21:14):
Well, again, it's a differenceof treatments.
You know like I use thispopular food Store as an example
.
You know, again, it's like ainline.
You know they're just adifferential treatment.
But one one instance inparticular and my wife and I
both experienced this on indifferent weeks, same thing,
(21:36):
different weeks where you payfor something with cash.
It's like you'll see the personin front of you, they'll pay,
money is put right, the money istaken from their hand, put back
in their hand, the money istaken.
I put the money in thecashier's hand and she sets it
on the counter or she sets it onthe floor and I'm like I put
the money in your hand, can youput it back in mine?
(21:58):
I got a no.
Now I got a fumble aroundtrying to grab coins off of this
surface when you could havejust put it in my hand, and it's
was just those forms ofdifferential treatment.
It's a is where it just kind ofburns my toast and then again
but you know it's like it issome of these things are so
deliberate and intentional thatthey are to get a reaction, and
(22:19):
then it's like they want thereaction to justify the
stereotype, and so that's whereit's.
Just, I have to be mindful of,and so it just it just one of
those things that we was likewow, the person intended to do
this to get a Desired impact isalmost like an antagonization.
Intagonizing type of behavioris so.
(22:41):
I know we get the most of thatin customer service.
You know, like I mentioned thisat an event in Salt County once
, how there's a couple of placesin a certain city that my wife
and I, we just would never goback to because of how we were
treated there.
You know, in the course, in thecourse I greatly want to put
(23:02):
those places on blast, but in aquarter law, to be my word
against theirs, our word againsttheirs, oh yeah, but it's like
yeah, and so it's like, and then, of course.
And then someone was like yeah,they can get you for Slander
too.
And it's like oh, I ain't,finna, try to go to a court
battle just to Point out.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Know how crappy this ownership and their staff is
yeah, well, and then that,because you are trying to be
respectful and protect yourself,then it becomes oh, I never
happened, then because you won'tsee where it happened, so it
didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's like well, there's more to it Right,
exactly, and of course, again,it's like nothing better in the
world and I would love to callout no, some nonsense like that
right and and just maybe a Oneday I just may.
Yeah, well, you know.
Again, it's like I say this isjust.
I know I jokingly say this, butit's like I think you know,
(23:59):
when a person, no kind of, I'mnot easily offended, you know, I
Don't care what you say or doto me, but just you, leave my
wife alone, don't disrespect mywife, don't hurt my wife.
You know what I mean.
Just Okay, what you say or doto me, but don't grieve my wife.
That's where the problems start.
I'm gonna say until youDisrespect my wife, yeah.
(24:23):
Well, you know, and he's stillworking on me on that- and
there's a.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
It's interesting because that you know that I
mentioned the whole deal.
If we can't know what it is forwomen either.
I had my haircut actually, allof them I did have.
Well, I was gonna just have onecut and I thought, oh, I'm here
, I'll just have all of them cut.
And so the, the woman that doesmy haircuts is just, she's a
younger gal, I think about thesame age as my son, so maybe mid
(24:50):
late 20s, and she was tellingme how she was, had just taken a
trip to Mexico, and there wereall these guys that were telling
her you be careful.
Now in Mexico, you know apretty girl like you, be, be
careful.
And she said, you know,multiple guys said that to me
and it really bothered me andit's really why?
And she said, well, becausebeing in the United States is
(25:14):
scarier than going to Mexico.
I mean, I'm probably, I feelmore at risk, at danger, in the
United States than I do there.
And then, on top of that, whoare they to say I should be
careful?
You know what?
I'm not their property thatthey have to make sure I'm
taking care of, so that I comeback to them?
I thought, boy, that you know, Inever would have thought, ever
(25:36):
that, would have thought thatthat would be taken that way.
But again, hello Duh, I can'tknow what it's like, just like
my, my daughter taught me yearsago too.
I there was a some guys doingconstruction work at our
neighbors next door and she hadasked them to do something.
And they just, yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Well then, when I got home atlunchtime she told me about the
(25:58):
whole thing and I said, okay,let me go talk to them.
I went and talked to them and,sure enough, they did right away
what she had been asking themto do.
But because she, you know, hadtwo of those in one of them and
you're like what, what is thedeal?
So it's everywhere.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
It's everywhere Just like the the same.
I guess the same men that weretelling uh, that young lady to
be careful in Mexico is probablytelling the young fellas go get
them.
Yeah.
Yeah don't hold back, go, havefun yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Uh yeah, and it it's just it speaks to Just how
ingrained that stuff is.
I don't I don't think anyonemeant anything by it.
I mean, I don't know, I guess Idon't think necessarily met
anything nasty, but we don'thave the perspective, you know
it.
We don't understand what it'slike to be in the position where
You're constantly dealt theseslights that in and of
(26:54):
themselves maybe aren't such abig deal, but you start
compounding the interest onthose slights and it becomes a
big deal.
And we have to respect that,because I, you know my, I think
one of my pet peeves is notfeeling respected, not feeling
like I'm included in Decisionsor whatnot.
(27:15):
Or you know that I'm some I getthis a lot where I'm kind of, uh
, kind of downrated because ofmy theater background.
You know.
So I'm, I'm so such anemotional guy, you know, and
like, yeah, I am, I mean, we'reall emotional, so what?
You're not emotional?
You know, you're one of thoseautomaton guys that keeps it all
(27:35):
inside because you're strong,and then it comes out in some
weird display of anger,frustration.
You know, you kick the dog orwhatever, I don't know, but it
just it always bugs me becauseit's when you use somebody's
personal traits as a reason toput them down.
It's, you know, and what isthis you know racism thing about
(28:00):
?
It's a personal trait that youknow your skin is black.
So I should put you downbecause of that?
I should, I should treat youdifferently because of that.
What really, seriously?
What is that?
I?
I don't get it.
I mean, what is what is wrongwith us that we can use
(28:22):
something as as Reallyinconsequential overall?
I mean, the color of a person'sskin Should be relatively like
do they have a beard or not?
I mean, really, at the end ofthe day, because it tells you
virtually nothing.
I mean, I think a beard tellsyou more about a person than
whether or not they're black orwhite.
Honestly, I mean, I could, youknow, say, well, he wants to
(28:43):
take care of that every day.
Okay, good, good deal, yeah,all right, or what's under that
beard, buddy?
So?
But when I so, I don't get it.
It's like why, why did we pickthat?
Why?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, you know, it's like when we were talking about
a second ago about how do wedeal with, uh, double standards,
you know, and that's just uh,again, it's uh, how do we deal
with it?
You know, and it's like callthem out, you know going, but
it's like you know we have tohave.
You know, it starts with ushaving some like say, regardless
of the situation, there has tobe some kind of clarity on the
(29:19):
purpose of why we're here or whywe're doing this thing.
You know, we'd know, um, I'vekind of Prayed about, like, our
theme for next year and uh, it'slike, uh, we're going to be
talking about doing lifetogether and uh, so that's uh,
one of the possibilities thatI'm thinking about.
But doing life, you know, we asWhite, black, green, yellow,
blue, purple, whatever, uh,doing life together, having
(29:43):
clarity of purpose, right,having a clear purpose on why
we're here.
And then it's like you know,what are we, our, what are we
supposed to do while we're here?
What are we doing for thecollective good of people?
And I just want to, if we cansimplify some things in this
life, I think we can kind of getrid of the double standards of
(30:04):
manipulation and and and justthese other kind of things.
You know, and it's just goingto start with, uh, people
willing to.
You know, we got two ears inone mouth, right.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Which one did god?
Intend you to use more Reasonso?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
because you know, like, we're in a space and time
where, like again, like uh, youcan point out some obvious
Double standards and people willtake offense that you pointed
it out.
You know, of course, we weretalking about this a couple
weeks ago as well.
It's like, you know, when youpoint out a problem, you become
the issue right, right, andthat's what we are.
(30:47):
You know, it's like how dareyou tell me I'm wrong when I
know I'm wrong, but I'm gonnakeep doing what I know is wrong
because it benefits me.
But you, yet you point out tome that I'm doing wrong to
benefit me.
And how dare you do that?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I just read a story about that.
There was some research done inthe 50s and it's where the idea
of cognitive dissonance came up.
So look that up sometime.
Cognitive dissonance.
And what happens is they foundthat people who had aligned
themselves and they used theexample of doomsday preachers,
(31:21):
that there have been recurrentissues where a doomsday preacher
will come out and will say theworld is going to end on July 15
, 1988.
And July 18 comes along, or15th comes along, and the world
doesn't end.
So most people, a lot of peopleat that point will say oh, it
was a crackpot.
But there are also people thathave invested a lot of time and
(31:42):
energy in that person, in thatministry, in that, you know,
preparing themselves.
They've gotten the doomsdaykits or whatever.
Or they prepared their families, shut themselves off from
friends that they don't want tohave attachments to because the
end is coming, and then itdoesn't happen.
So then you have this thingcalled cognitive dissonance,
(32:04):
where the thing that you builtall of this belief on doesn't
happen.
And if you're going to dealwith the fact that that didn't
happen, it takes a lot of workbecause you have to go to
yourself somehow Wow, why did Ibelieve that?
What was I thinking?
What?
What else has been wrong here?
(32:25):
How else have I made mistakeshere?
There's a lot of soul searchingthat goes in and instead of
doing that, we will a largepercentage of us will say well,
pastor, something must have gonewrong, they must have been Well
.
So the end of the world iscoming.
When do you think it's coming?
Did we get the date wrong?
Were we doing something wrongthat the Lord didn't bring?
(32:48):
The last day and this is yesthe Lord revealed to me that we
did have the wrong day.
The real date is February 18,2022.
And then we wait again for itto happen and then, when it
happens, it doesn't happen again.
Now you've got an even morehunkering down group of people
(33:08):
that are convinced that it's notbecause the person that's
spewing out this stuff is wrong.
It's because something else ishappening to make it not happen.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Wow, and that's a great point.
You know, of course, likepeople use those kind of double
standards and arguments tomanipulate others and get them
so defensive, and so I don'tknow how to say defensive and
committed.
Deluded, they lose.
I had to what the actualargument was about, what the
actual purpose of theconversation was about.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Right, right, I mean a little kid comes in and says
Dad, dad, dad, there's a rapidwolf outside.
You know, and you go outsideand there's no wolf to be found
anywhere.
And she says no, daddy was here, was here.
Well, he's not here now.
And you go back in the house ina couple days.
There, dad, dad, there's a madwolf outside.
You go out again, there's nomad wolf.
You know, like Billy, we needto have a talk about what a mad
(34:03):
wolf looks like and stop comingin and telling me unless there's
really a mad wolf.
Well then, you know, three dayslater, there is a mad wolf
comes running and saying Dad,dad, there's a mad wolf.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go away, go away.
The kid gets eaten.
Right, I mean it's.
You've heard this story in adifferent realm, but it is the
same deal that it's interestingthat we we don't have any
problem with those simple tales,but we get sucked up in things
(34:28):
all the time.
Amway, I probably shouldn't saythat, but you know they're
there.
It's used as a joke a lot oftimes, but there are product
lines that people becomecommitted to.
They invest a whole bunch ofmoney in it and then, when stump
comes up to say that's reallynot as good as they're saying it
is.
You know those, those studiesare just biased.
Those are that's done byresearchers that don't know what
(34:50):
they're talking about.
This stuff is excellent.
I've used it for years and it'swonderful.
Well, if we've got that kind ofcognitive dissonance over a
shampoo or whatever, imagine howmuch more cognitive dissonance
we're going to experience whenit's a person that we've
identified, that we feelidentifies with us and
(35:10):
understands our fears and ourconcerns, and you know what,
what's important to us.
How much harder is it to turnaway from that and say you're
wrong and I was wrong forfollowing you.
Time to move on.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Well, we're living that out right now, brother,
when we look at what's happeningin on the news and in this
current political environment,you know where a person won't
admit they're wrong and a personwon't admit they're wrong for
following, and Well, you'veeliminated all of the things
that would help right fake media.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
So well, now, how are we supposed to know what's
really going on?
Where is, where is the non fakemedia?
The non fake media is the stuffthat I agree with, that's non
fake.
Well, I mean, I've had thatargument with friends of mine.
In many instances were saidWell, that's one side that
you're getting.
What about the other side?
How do you know they're not?
(36:08):
There's some truth on that sidetoo.
How do you know they're justbunch of liars?
Well, that's convenient, isn'tit, to just wipe it all off that
way.
But the what's?
The old Emerson phrase, thevehemence of my opponent's
argument convinces me that I amperhaps just a little bit wrong
and he is perhaps a little bitright.
(36:29):
So I don't know how else totypify that.
But if you can't admit that Idon't know the whole thing, I
haven't.
I do not know what's in DonaldTrump's mind.
I do not know what is in JohnJoe Biden's mind, I do not know,
I cannot know.
And if I'm going to say, builda whole spectrum of hates and
(36:53):
angers and vehemence and youknow, nastiness based on
something I can't know, I mean,how silly is that?
Think about it for a second.
How silly is that?
When I have you right in frontof me, I can't know.
I can't know what you'veexperienced with African
Americans experience on a dailybasis.
I cannot know that.
(37:15):
But I can know you, I can getto know you and I can share.
You can share your experienceswith me.
I can hopefully understand.
I can you know.
It's not like it's I have tosay, oh my God, on behalf of all
white people, I'm so sorry,antoine.
I can't do that either, but Ican say I will do what I can.
I want to do what I can becausewhat's happening to you and to
(37:38):
I in this country is not good,it's not right.
We're Americans, darn it.
We can do better than this.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
We can, and it's like it's almost like when it comes
to these double standards.
You know what is actuallybehind it.
You know what mental capacityis behind it, what agenda is
behind it, what strategy isbehind it.
It's just what is going on inthe background that you just
(38:08):
don't know about.
You know, selling more big.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Macs selling more big Macs.
That's what's behind it.
So we're going to no, sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
But you know what I mean.
It's like you know, there's allit's almost.
There is an intent behind thisthing Because, again, like if we
both can say hey, wow, that'swrong, but another person, like
say two people can say a thingis wrong, no, it's wrong, but
the other person will defendthat wrong versus the other
person and say why don't youjust call it out for what it is?
(38:38):
And that's where, kind of wherewe are, and rather than admit
that we're wrong, you know, ofcourse there's that pride of
life where we say no, what Iknow.
A person won't say I've been a,I've been an idiot for doing
this or that or the other forthe last 10, 20 years or
whatever.
No, they'll double down on thefact that they just just wish
(39:01):
who I am and what I do andversus just saying Wow, I was
wrong.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, pulling out all kinds of research articles that
support what you believe.
You know this is scary ofwhat's to come to.
I follow a little bit Probablyshould look at it more but the
whole idea of artificialintelligence.
And Google has a new productthat they're they have in beta
(39:26):
testing right now called Bard,and so Bard like Shakespeare,
the great Bard, right, bard isdesigned and is capable of
having read basically everythinganywhere.
I mean, I don't know if youremember a while back, google
did a thing with basicallyscanning any book that they
could get a hold of, scanning itin and becoming Google books,
(39:50):
and so that getting that wealth,that reservoir has now enabled
them.
They had a long term plan, I'msure, to develop this AI product
, and the AI product is sosophisticated already that the
interviewer was able to ask Ishould go back and look at this.
There was a series of eventswhere he just gave like three
(40:13):
words or five words and the AIwas able to tell the story of
what those five words were aboutand turned it into a poem.
They had just, you know,different ways of tell the pros
of it and the AI came up with anincredible, you know, story
that explained that sentence andthen came up with a poem that
(40:35):
explained that sentence.
But the scary one, scariest onewas that there was a research
paper that it presented thatquoted articles that did not
exist, quoted research that hadnever happened.
So it was so sophisticated thatit not only came up with a
bunch of lies but it came upwith sophisticated support for
(41:00):
those lies.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Did you hear about the lawyer that used AI to
create a deposition, orsomething like that?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, the AI based it on court cases that did not
exist, or something like that,yeah yeah, it's exactly the same
idea and they talk about thosethings as being things that they
have to sort out in theprogramming.
But I mean, at some point wehave to kind of take a look at
ourselves and say, ok, well,computers figured out that we do
(41:28):
this all the time, so they'vegot access to all of the media
and all of the subject matterout there.
So let's say, oh, it seems likeyou know, having factual basis
to your you know your referencesis really inconsequential.
We just come up with things andmake it sound intelligent
enough and people will buy that.
It's real research.
So, and we brought that outourselves.
(41:50):
So there are researchers thatare out there making up false
conclusions.
And you know statisticians thatare saying well, three out of
four people recommend that youuse blah, blah, blah.
And it's like well, which threeout of four people did you test
?
And you know, was it where?
Did you screen them ahead oftime and say do you like this?
Yeah, I do.
Ok, well, you can be in thetest then.
(42:11):
So it's just so easy tomanipulate the truth to fit what
you want it to fit.
And there again the doublestandard.
It's OK for me to modify thetruth because I have a good
purpose in doing that.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And then, of course, the state of Florida is a
perfect example of that.
They want to modify the truthof the history of slavery and
say that oh yeah, it was aprivilege for black people, it
was a skill building and allthese different kind of things.
And it's amazing how we can puta spin on a thing to make it
fit how we wanted to do, how wewanted to be.
But you know, again, it's likeyou know, when we're talking
(42:49):
about double standards, you knowit's just like.
I guess I don't want to say Iguess I know that these things
they have to be.
We have to start meeting themhead on.
We have to meet them in themost intelligent way, without
because again a person willargue 10 ways around Sunday to
get you off of the actual point.
And that's where we are.
(43:10):
Like you know, like doublestandards in schools, that this
just can't exist anymore.
You know double standards andvoting rights it just can't
exist anymore.
You know.
Even, look at how the now, likewith the colleges and
universities, they stopaffirmative action based
(43:33):
admissions, but yet they stillwant to keep legacy admissions.
You know what I mean.
It's these things.
They have to be met head on,and that's where I am, you know.
I just like I don't want to bethe angry black guy in the room
all the time, but it's like.
It's like you can't help butcall out the wrong, you know,
and yes, and am I going to bethat brunt of the, depending on
(43:57):
who I'm around?
I'm a catch it from some, but,but most you'd like to think
that a reasonable minds willprevail or just open minds will
just listen to reason.
I mean, and that's where I am,I know, of course, a lot of
these things.
They're just that doublestandard, that sense of
entitlement.
(44:17):
You know I'm wrong, You'rewrong, I'm right.
That narcissistic personalitydisorder that we see is like a
person argue you down, they'llground you into dust to prove
that point, and we just we haveto stop letting stuff slide, so
to speak.
I mean, but we have to figureout a way to do it the right way
(44:38):
, like you were saying earlier.
You know it's like how do wedeal with this?
You know, and so I guess that'sthat's my prayer going into,
you know, later this week.
Just Lord, how do we deal withdealing with double standards?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, call them out, right, Look for them.
You know, I don't I don'tpretend to see all the double
standards that are in front ofme, and I would like to be able
to see them.
Cs Lewis has a wonderful bookwhere he talks about it's
(45:16):
basically an analogy of thepeople on a ship to heaven.
And when they, when they're onthe trip, they, you know,
initially, you know the light isso bright and it's painful, and
they step out onto the grassand the grass leaves are so
(45:37):
sharp and just just souncomfortable walking on and
they're just, oh my God, thiscan't be heaven, this is
terrible, this is, oh my gosh,we're going to suffer forever
and ever.
But as time goes on, the grassbecomes the most pleasant, silky
, wonderful, comfortable, cool,fresh, wonderful grass ever, and
(46:00):
the sun becomes this incrediblybeautifully warming, perfect,
you know, beacon of light thatit makes everything rich in
color and saturates.
And you know just thiswonderful analogy about how we
would see heaven through ourearthly eyes and, as time goes
(46:20):
along, learn to see it withheavenly eyes, and I see that
with our, I think.
You know, I hope ourdiscussions are kind of a way to
kind of see things differently,to be able to understand that
what seems so uncomfortable isjust part of walking towards
what we can be.
(46:40):
It's part of embracing what hasbeen and realizing what has
been and turning to seesomething better, even though it
might not seem like it's betterat first, but it's the right
thing, so just move towards it.
I don't know, I'm doing a lousyjob.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
So no, no, no, healing.
Healing hurts, right, yeah, youknow, healing hurts you, you,
you.
I burn myself with some cookingoil just a little bit back, and
it just it hurt for a few daysand then it it's like crazy for
a few days and it's like I'm gotcampofonique and cocoa butter
(47:22):
and all these things slaveringit up and it was just a very
uncomfortable for a few days butit's getting better and you're
probably not going to not cookanymore just because you got
burned with some cooking oil,right?
Right, I wish I could never haveto cook again.
But you want to eat?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, I wouldn't mind having somebody cook for me.
I'm, I'm, I'm all over that, so, but cooking is fun we have
this thing in my wife and I.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
we have a thing.
It's pretty simple Whoever getshome first just start cooking.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
That's a good arrangement.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Whoever gets home first, just start.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
I would not do well at that arrangement.
I would be oh, I'll do ittomorrow.
I'm really tired tonight.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, youplayed the real tired tonight
for 314 days.
Buddy, Get in there and cooksomething.
So that would be me.
But hey, man, always, always,always.
Just I feel like we'vescratched the tip of the iceberg
(48:21):
, but yeah, and it's just like abut you.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
You pose a question how do we address and deal with
them in a way that'sconstructive and where you're
not bashing a person over thehead, you're not saying, look,
you're wrong, it's just pointingout the difference in the
behavior or the attitude or theproblem, just pointing that
difference out in a way where itcould be understood and seen
(48:46):
and just uh, that's where we areand, of course, that's a you
know part of the problem with asociety.
Now we don't know how to talk,right?
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Civilly, especially so we can, we can have
discussions without having themturned into arguments
immediately.
So, and being willing to acceptmaybe I am wrong, maybe I am.
Let me hear what you have tosay.
Hmm, okay, yes, I hadn'tthought of it.
(49:15):
If nothing else, if nothingelse, you come out thinking I
hadn't thought of it that way.
Those are beautiful words.
I like those words.
I like you know that's a,that's a sign of a healing
nation.
I never thought of it that way.
Hmm, hmm, hmm, you, you, youtake care of yourself there.
Okay, buddy, you take care ofyourself there.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
You too, you too, sir , and a happy again.
Happy anniversary last.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, thank you, I got that going for me too.
37 years of marriage.
This woman's been married to me.
What is she thinking?
37 years, yeah, she's probablyseeing herself it's 37 too many,
so but I'm gonna ask Ann thatyeah.
Yeah, she'll say you said whatso?
But no, she has been a blessingin so many ways.
(50:03):
I can tell you for certain Iwould not be a decent person in
any way, shape or form if itwasn't for her, she, she has
brought out all the best in me,sometimes with me fighting and
kicking and screaming all theway, but she has brought out the
very best in me.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
So it's a good thing.
Congratulations, man, 37 yearsman, congratulations.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
I'm heading strong.
Hopefully I got another 37 left.
But, boy, they better make meinto AI before that, because I
don't think I'm going to bemoving around much at that age.
All right, dude, see you nextweek.
See you, man.
Same bat time, same bat channelhere on.
What's our show called again,do you remember?
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Frame of reference coming together.
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Coming together.
You come together with us folksnext week, same time, same
place, whatever and look fordouble standards, see ya.
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