What does it take to command your personal brand and navigate the complex world of self-esteem, morality, and success? In today's episode, we're thrilled to have Jeremy Ryan Slate, founder and president of Command Your Brand, join us for an eye-opening discussion on his incredible journey and insights. From hosting the Create Your Own Life podcast with notable guests like four-star generals and CIA directors, to founding his company with his wife, Brielle, Jeremy has plenty to share about hard work, resilience, and the value of meaningful conversations.
We delve into the controversial topic of participation awards and the idea that self-esteem should be earned, not given. Jeremy reveals his thoughts on understanding why we fail in order to improve and the complexities of morality and spirituality in modern society. Together, we explore the state of education, the need for apprenticeship programs, and the challenges of politics and leadership today.
Don't miss this captivating conversation with Jeremy Ryan Slate, filled with valuable insights and thought-provoking discussions that will leave you questioning your own perspectives on success, self-esteem, and the power of dialogue. Tune in to learn how you too can command your brand and make your mark on the world.
Jeremy is the host of the Create Your Own Life Podcast, which studies the highest performers in the world. He studied literature at Oxford University, as well as holding a Master’s in Early Roman Empire Propaganda from Seton Hall University. His podcast was named the #1 Podcast to Listen To by INC Magazine in 2019, as well as Top 40 Under 40 by Podcast Magazine in 2022.
Jeremy and his wife, Brielle, co-founded Command Your Brand—a new media public relations agency designed to help entrepreneurs share their message by appearing as guests on podcasts. He resides in Stillwater, NJ where he raises chickens and is a former competitive powerlifter.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Well, welcome to another episode of Frame of
Reference, Salt County andBeyond.
And we are continuing ourBeyond Factor here, folks, And
I'm excited I've been excitedabout the last few guests that
we've had on the show,particularly, and it is due to
my guest today who is thefounder of the organization that
(00:34):
has been routing these peopleto me, an organization called
Command Your Brand, And my guestis none other than the
president, great, great exaltedone and grand pooba of Command
Your Brand.
Well, actually, probably yourwife is right, Brielle is
probably the grand exalted pooba.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You're just No, well, in all things home, yes, in all
things business.
No, she does operations whereI'm more of like the executive
function.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Okay, excellent.
Well, this is none other thanJeremy Ryan Slate.
Jeremy, thank you so much forbeing with me.
Thank you for taking the timefor that.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So Thank you, man.
You call me grand pooba.
I feel like I got to give you ayabba-dabba-doo or something.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, something like that.
Yeah, I mean, that would onlybe appropriate.
So A loyal water buffalo man.
Yeah, you know, i was watchingBeverly Hillbillies the other
day and I remembered they havethe billiards room.
if you've ever watched thatshow, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
they have that big animal on thewall.
I said we can't figure out whatthat is, but we think it's a
billiard.
So, yeah, okay.
So, jeremy, i read a bit aboutyour background.
(01:34):
You had your Well, you stillhave Create Your Own Life
podcast, which is reallydesigned towards making people
that think they're just ordinary, helping them to find what it
is that will make themextraordinary and go for it,
essentially.
But you're the guest thatyou've had on that show.
Are everybody from Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Now that Tom Brady wasn't on it, but you talked
about Tom, that'd be nice, right, he's coming, though I bet you
he's coming So.
Well, he's got a lot more timeon his hands now.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Exactly So now that he's not doing that football
thing anymore, gosh.
But you've interviewed everyonefrom four-star generals to CIA
directors, so Which I can onlyimagine how fun that must be.
But you and your wife foundedYeah, founded Command Your Brand
to help visionary founders usethe power of podcasts to change
(02:25):
the world.
I thought.
What was particularlyinteresting to me, too, is that
you now live in New Jersey andthat you raise chickens in our
former competitive powerlifter.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Right, we have two dozen chickens And we just got
our second rooster too.
Because when you have Like theone rooster we have, he's
certainly a little bitaggressive now because what
happens is like if they kind ofgot this big pack of ladies and
like they don't have anycompetition, they start to kind
of feel their oats a little bitand he's kind of started going
after humans.
So we got a second rooster.
(02:55):
So now, like because they'reusually good for about eight
chickens on their own, so nowthey'll kind of compete a little
bit, which would be good, andhe'll calm down and stop going
after us.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
One hopes at least, right.
So come on, chicken, get inline here.
It's working in the past.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
But everything's like that,right?
If it's not chickens, it'spoliticians.
I guess They're kind of allover the place.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But a good place to put them in is at the bottom of
the ocean, but we don't havethat.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
That works for me Concrete boots all around.
So, as we always do, jeremy,i'm going to start out with my
favorite things as part of ourpodcast, so I just like to.
This is completely gestaltian.
Don't think a whole lot aboutthis.
If you have to, you have to,but try to have it be what just
comes genuinely from Jeremy RyanSlate's heart and soul.
(03:46):
all right, these are reallyprobing too.
So first one is favorite food.
Can I do it more Rorschach thangestaltian No you have to do the
whole, because you have to takethe whole picture of things,
right.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can I give you the ink a lot in front of you.
Well, rorschach is final too.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So you have to be from New Jersey to understand
this.
But Taylor Ham, and you have tobe from Northern New Jersey, by
the way, in Southern New Jerseyyou'd call it something else.
In Northern New Jersey it'scalled the Taylor Ham Egg and
Cheese.
In Southern New Jersey it'scalled a pork roll, egg and
cheese.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Interesting, so you have to put this in a Taylor Ham
and Egg and Cheese.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
In other places they call it Canadian bacon, but it's
this round ham and you get astack of that with a nice
scrambled egg on it, toastedhard roll, with some nice
American or cheddar cheese on it.
And then they call it SPK,which is salt, pepper, ketchup.
It is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
That sounds like something we should have in
Wisconsin, because then it couldhave Wisconsin cheese on it too
.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, i get out to Wisconsin though soon.
though man, i do one share theGreen Bay Packers man, So I got
to get out to Lambeau.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, well, there's the deal too.
I'll tell you.
When they called the DallasCowboys America's team, i always
just want to stop them dead intheir tracks and say, hey, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Green Packers are the only onesstill owned by the people.
Okay, so if anybody is theAmerica's, that's a Green Bay
Packers.
So how about a favorite quote?
You have a favorite quote?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It's a quote by Vince Lombardi, and I think this was
This was actually during theperiod when he was with Green
Bay, it wasn't when he was withNew York.
And I'm going to paraphrasethis I hope I don't screw it up
that we are going to endlesslychase perfection, knowing that
perfection is not possible, andin that chase we will chase
(05:35):
perfection and in that we willcatch excellence, because you
can't be perfect.
So, yeah, really Excellent.
I apologize to the estate ofVince Lombardi.
I totally butchered that thing.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, and you know that there are some folks out
there right now going that's notquite right, yes, yeah, well,
that's okay.
They're the ones that are, iguess, perfection, or the rest
of us are just striving forexcellence.
That actually fits a lot ofyour mantra, doesn't it?
that saying that soundsfoundational to me, almost, for
who you've become.
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, i think so because I think, like you, i'm a
big believer I don't know aboutyou, but I'm a big believer in
hard work and life skills and Ithink, like you, have to work
and work and work and work atsomething, even though you kind
of stink sometimes and you knowyou only get better by doing
something right.
Like it's the old phrase of howto get to Carnegie Hall.
But practice, practice,practice right.
That's how life is right.
If you want to be the best atsomething, you got to keep doing
(06:29):
it, You got to keep working,You got to keep improving, And
so, like that's always how I'velooked at things.
I'm a big believer in doinglike.
Sure, I've studied a lot anddone whatever, but I actually
learned more by implementing andtrying to figure things out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Sure, While you even talk about that, right, Your dad
was one of the hardest workingpeople you ever have known,
right?
So that's the.
I think that's a quality thatwe do kind of grow up and around
or we don't learn it at all.
And I had to laugh.
One of the comments made aboutparticipation awards that life
is not about participationawards And I've always thought
(07:02):
those were like one of the worstideas anyone ever came up with,
because it's not enough toparticipate.
It's so weird, man, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's so weird Cause, like I like, so I grew up in the
mid 80s, right?
So, like, I think the world'sgotten to be like a lot
different than, and, like youknow, my dad played professional
baseball and he didn't quiteget up to the majors.
But you know, like you, eitherone or you lost, right?
That's how it is in the worldAnd I think that's how the how
the real life is.
But they started doing thisthing when I was younger where,
all right, the whole, the wholebaseball team gets a trophy,
(07:31):
It's like, but we didn't, wedidn't win anything Like what is
the point?
Because there's big value inlosing.
If you can take a look at that,figure out why you lost, you
can take that thing and improveon that thing and get better.
But if we're not doing that,there's no value in it, am I?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
right, right, i totally agree.
And not to mention, there ishuge value in losing, in that
just because you lose doesn'tmake you a loser, and that's
where we somehow thought that itwas something to do with our
self-esteem.
In reality, if there's anythingthat comes out of that process,
it's improving your self-esteemthrough improving yourself.
(08:06):
I mean, i don't quite get that.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, i'm not a big believer in the whole
self-esteem thing because itstarted being like.
I remember my parents talkingabout it when I was younger.
It wasn't really a thing untilI was like five or six and then
it kind of became like the hipthing to talk about.
And, if you look at it,production is the basis of
morale, right?
So if you're doing somethingand you're working at something,
you're going to feel good,right.
And I think too often we wantto feel good just because we are
(08:29):
And it's like well, you knowwhat I mean.
I think, a lot of timesself-esteem is earned man.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, i wonder if maybe we need a different term
for it too.
I've always thought of myselfas kind of a work in progress
And it's like I direct a lot ofplays, right, and when you
direct a play, i mean you startout sucking.
It does.
The first time the cast istogether and they're reading the
script and they have no ideawhat they're reading.
They have no idea what thecharacter's about and they're
learning.
(08:55):
And then you get to all thatproduction time and all that
investment and energy trying tobring it all together And then I
can't watch the show when it'sactually up and running.
It's really hard for me towatch the show at that point
because I know it's not going toget any better.
Really, it's now hit the endAnd I keep seeing the things
that man.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I can't listen to my voice recorded after the fact.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Oh, isn't that work.
So it's like one of thosethings where you just sit back
and go geez, i would have donethis.
I wish I would have done that,all that jazz.
So how about a favorite book?
You have a favorite book.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
There's been so many man.
The one that's coming to meright now is Atlas Shrugged by
Iron Rand.
Okay, i don't know if you'veever read Atlas Shrugged Yeah,
yeah, a long time ago, and youkind of need a long attention
span if you're going to readthat one.
I think it's like 1400 pages orsomething like that.
But I think it shows you whathappens when you start rewarding
(09:49):
nonproducers, like what we'vebeen talking about here, what
happens to society, and you kindof bastardize and kind of get
rid of the idea of achievement.
Well then the achievers justsay well, we're leaving.
So to me, i think there's a lotof value in that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, isn't it interesting?
I keep thinking about that, thenonproducers quality.
it strikes me that part of our,maybe part of our problem with
nonproducing as a concept isthat we don't realize that is
more than just producing.
you know, monetizing it Right,well, you can create value in so
(10:27):
many ways.
Right, right.
So having people figure out away to create that value and
realize that it's not just aboutme and what makes me happy that
there's a lot to doing what'sgood for all of us around, right
.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, because I think , when you look at it, like
there's value could be createdin so many ways.
but there's a couple ofviewpoints on this.
Right, like, when you look atit, there's the person that says
, okay, i'm going to help myselfand others survive better.
Right, and I think that's theright viewpoint to have.
There's the other viewpointthat says, please help me
survive, and I think, when youlook at it, that's a really
dangerous viewpoint because itdoesn't add to society and it
(11:01):
takes away from others that aretrying to help others.
you know.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah Yeah, i have quite a few people in my life
that are in that.
It's energy sucking, too, whichis problematic.
So how about a favorite bird?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Favorite bird?
Well, I'm going to have to gowith the Easter egg or chicken.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Easter egg or chicken , okay, which you probably have
one.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
They lay bright blue eggs.
I have three of them.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, Bright blue eggs, huh.
So right, it's easy.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
At Easter time, you don't have to worry about
coloring those, right It's funnythough, and I don't know why it
is, but like and I always havethis running joke with my
mother-in-law like Easter egg orchickens, for some times they
have a tendency to try to hidetheir own eggs.
So I was like, wow, they'reeggs that are already colored
and hide themselves.
You just got to hope you findthem so they don't go bad.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Well, they're probably going around going.
These are very special eggs.
I don't want just anyone to goturn them into some Jersey
omelet or something.
That would be awful.
So I get it.
How about?
do you have a favoritepersonality?
Is there, do you have an, Iguess, an idol?
You've talked about severalpeople that you admire a lot,
that you've met over time, butis there someone that really
(12:08):
epitomizes the qualities thatyou find are very admirable,
emulatable, if that's a word?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, if you want somebody that gets stuff done,
I'd say George S Patton, but Idon't know how much fun he was
able to hang out with withfamily time.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Especially if you were a soldier that had shells
or shock.
That's not a good idea.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, but like I guess if you had to look at it,
that's tough.
Because I think if you look atsomebody like Martin Luther King
, like I think the thing that'scool about him is you know they
put him in prison, they did allthese things to him And even you
know people in his own movementtried to take what he had and
twisted it.
He just wanted everybody to dobetter, do better, because they
(12:47):
were adding value to society.
I think that is extremelyadmirable.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, well, and you talk quite a bit about that
adversity being something weneed to embrace rather than
something we need to.
I'm not doing well.
My life is so hard.
Yeah, that's just a bad hole togo down, so how about it?
Do you have a favorite placethat you like to go to?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Favorite place, budapest.
Hungary was one of my favoritecities.
Actually, we stayed in a boathotel on the Danube, which was
incredible, and I love Budapest.
Hungary was great.
We've been a whole bunch ofplaces in Europe.
Budapest was my favorite though.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Okay, so there's a lot of excellent things about
Budapest.
There's something about thecity just has an incredible
amount of beauty to it.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's interesting too because, like so, the Danube
goes through the middle of thecity, the Danube River, and they
call it Budapest, but it'sactually two cities One side is
Buda and the other side is Pest,and together they're Budapest.
And there's also on the Budaside there is the largest
natural hot springs in the world, which is really cool, so it's
(13:56):
a very cool place.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Excellent.
Okay, last question.
I want to get to move on to themeat of the interview.
A favorite memory that you havefrom childhood, something that
maybe you think about, that justmakes you feel put you in a
better place, or something thatyou have a I don't know.
I think of things that you runacross and you go oh yeah, i
(14:19):
remember that now.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So it was this one particular time playing catch
with my dad in the backyard ofour house.
My dad was a pitcher And my dadused to throw like a high 90s
fastball.
And he used to throw thiscurveball.
That was.
He used to throw this curveballwith a, which they call a 12 to
six.
So it'd come out and you go andit would just drop.
So he's playing catch with a 10year old and throwing it as
(14:42):
hard as he possibly can And Ijust to me that was just
exhilarating trying to catch it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Well, yeah, i mean, talk about having to learn how
to, you know, succeed.
So well, that's like you know.
I forget who it's chess masterwas that?
remember him talking about.
He would play with children.
He would just demolish them Andyou know people would just sit
back and go my God you're doing.
Why are you doing that to thechildren?
This is like they have to learnto play better.
That you know I'm.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I'm making them a disservice by not making them
play better, right, right.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
My wife used to give me a hard time for beating our
son at chess and I'm not by nomeans a phenomenal chess player
but she's like, why don't youlet him win?
I'm like I'm not letting anyonewin, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm sorry.
I remember the first, the firsttime my dad always used to be
faster than me running And Iremember when he got into his
like mid, mid to late forties itwas the first time I finally
beat him running And I looked athim and goes, looks like he got
old dad.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah right, took you home, Whoop.
Yeah, that's.
That's the point where you knowI'm still your dad boy, so but
all right, now, jeremy, you havea phenomenal story, i think,
and it's a story that needs tobe heard, and I'm so glad that
you have the podcast that youhave with the followership you
(15:58):
have, and I have to say, anotherwhere a place where I've really
identified with you is in yourdesire to have meaningful
conversations with people.
Personally, what I found isthat that's difficult to find a
listenership for.
It's a difficult thing to findan audience for, because it
(16:18):
seems, to me at least, that wehave a have really cultivated,
largely put this on the media'sshoulders.
We have largely cultivated anaudience of people that want
other people to do the thinkingfor them.
They just want to be able tosign on for the ride, and that,
to me, is so dangerous and sodivisive, polarizing, stupid,
(16:42):
which makes sense.
But how do you find that you'returning that around or moving
the needle?
Is that?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
how do you deal with it?
I guess the part of it is likewe didn't start there, right, i
think.
I think often it can be hard tostart in places that really
matter, but you have to startsomewhere.
So we started with whatinterested us.
You know what interested inwhat helped people, which a lot
of it was where I started, youknow, trying to figure out a
business that worked, trying todo different things, that that
that worked.
And you know, as I've grown andmatured you know the show is
(17:13):
grown and matured Like I'm verydifferent at almost 40 than I
was at 20 when I started thisshow And which is four years
into before, which is kind ofwild to me, but you know I look
at it Wait till you get to 60.
That's where it really startedAnd you feel 24 inside My dad's
going to be 70 next year.
It's wild man, but like you,look at it, and the things that
(17:36):
matter to me in my late 30s areactually the things that matter
the most in life.
How is the family doing?
What are the things that matterpolitically?
You know, how do we get along?
How do we figure out thesedifferent things?
And I think the thing you findis when you have these
conversations from kind of lessof a polarizing vantage point
(17:59):
And because you know what I mean, you have to have people on the
far right and people on the farleft Thank you, they're the
loudest ones and they just wantto shout whatever it is You find
most of the people actuallysomewhere in the middle.
And I think when you can findout how to communicate to those
people and have conversationswhere you're not bad mouthing,
where you're not calling names,where you're trying to do things
that are thoughtful and you cansay well, you know I don't
agree with you, but I respectyou And I think when we can get
(18:19):
better at that, that's to me.
That's where I started to hitmy sweet spot and more people
started to be attracted to themessage that I wanted to have.
But I didn't start there.
I had to grow there.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Sure Yeah, and there's something I think it's a
.
I'm paraphrasing this, butthere's a phrase from Emerson
that my dad related to him, bythe way.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Really, how so My my on my mom's side?
my mom's maiden name wasEmerson, so my first child's
name is Emerson.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Well, the first time I've ever met somebody related
to Ralph Waldo Emerson This is abanner day for me, let me tell
you, jeremy.
So my dad used to carry thislittle thing that he had typed
up on a typewriter and just hadit folded up And kept there, and
I have not, for the life of me,been able to find this actually
in writing.
But as I remember it, thesaying was the the vehemence of
(19:07):
my opponent's argument convincesme that I am perhaps a little
bit wrong And he is perhaps alittle bit right.
So I've always said that's just.
That's the way I really havetried to approach a lot of
things in life is you don't getanywhere by yelling at someone.
You get somewhere byunderstanding someone that
doesn't agree with you.
And that's where I reallyreally hold our politicians and
(19:31):
our media responsible right nowis they are trying to find the
biggest conflict and monetize it, yeah, and it's just like.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I think to me that's why legacy media and traditional
media is dying, because peopledon't.
People don't want that anymore.
And then, like you know, it'slike it's, and not if you're for
against him, but whatever, justas an example, you look at
somebody, like you know, tuckerCarlson, moving off a TV and
he's on Twitter now And the guygot 70 million views yesterday,
right.
So it's like you look at it,like traditional media wants to
scare us, wants to make us angry, wants to make us hate each
(20:01):
other, wants to make us fight.
Where, if you look out intowhat's happening with what you
and I are doing in kind of thisnew media world, like people are
having real conversations andtaking a look at issues and
things that matter to our livesAnd we're not debasing each
other You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Right, right.
Well, we're not trying todemean each other.
As you've said, there areplenty of people you've
interviewed that you don'tnecessarily agree with, but
you'll fight to the death to beable to make sure they have
their right to disagree with you.
You know, and that that's adifficult thing.
Someone that's out therelistening hopefully someone out
there listening right now isgoing.
People are just stupid if theydon't agree with me.
(20:40):
I have really struggled withthat, you know.
Especially I am in my sixtiesAnd I think of a lot of people
that are my age are so stuck intheir ways and in their biases
And I see that as such a.
I mean, what is your phrasefrom Mark Twain?
Most people die at twenty seven.
(21:01):
It just takes till seventy twofor them to be buried.
That to me, is a death.
You know, if you've let yourbiases so consume you that you
can't consider there might beanother belief system or another
reason to believe in somethingelse, that, how do you counter
that?
How do you find yourselfpersonally and professionally
countering that?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Well, i think there's two parts to that.
First, and like I go back tothat Mark Twain quote, like he's
talking about people that havelost the ability to dream, right
, because, like life is beatingthe up or whatever it may be,
and I think, when you look at it, a man is is as alive as he can
dream.
And I think once you can't dothat anymore, you become more
bitter, you become more able tosee, you know the viewpoint of
(21:43):
others.
As an interviewer, the hardestthing to learn, but the thing
that has served me the most islearning to understand the
viewpoint of the person sittingin front of you, right, because
I think you're learning to askquestions from the viewpoint of
the person listening to you,because so often we can ask
questions because, well, thatthat's interesting to me, but
it's like, ok, there are peoplelistening to this, what are they
(22:03):
trying to get out of that?
And I think, when you can learnhow to realize that number one,
this is very hard people.
Number one others exist andhave viewpoints.
Number two how do thoseviewpoints have to do with what
you're doing, right?
I think so often we're juststuck on us and what we want,
and we have to understand thatthere's many different areas of
our lives that we're a part of.
(22:23):
Right, there's yourself andyour family.
There's the groups you're apart of.
There's mankind.
There's, you know, the animalworld that you're a part of.
There's the physical worldyou're a part of Like.
There's all these differentthings and you have to look at
what is an optimum solution,right, what is a solution that's
good for each one of the mostof these areas?
right, like.
Something's not always going tobe the best for all of them,
but what is the thing that's thebest for most of them?
I think people really strugglewith that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Right, yeah, that whole.
What is it Lincoln's quoteabout?
you can't, you can't please allthe people all the time, nor
can you please.
You can please some of thepeople some of the time and some
of the people all the time, butyou can't please all of the
people all the time, and thatthat's a.
I've struggled with that.
You know someone that is usedto getting in audiences applause
(23:07):
.
You know kind of thing You wanteverybody to like you.
You know so.
But you always see the one guythat's in the audience that's
not clapping, you know, or thathas fallen asleep.
That's the worst, you know,when you're on stage and some
guy that's taking a nap in themiddle of your trying to put
this out there.
But they, they're there and you, those are the ones you can
want to take after the show andsay why did you fall asleep?
(23:28):
What was going on?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I think, like something.
This is once again.
I'm giving all this advice, butit's damn hard Like to do these
things in action.
But, like you know, one of thebiggest things for me is when I
stopped worrying about beingliked or admired and just doing
what I thought was right.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That was a game changer.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right, because it's but when you do things to be
liked or admired, you're doingthings more from a place of ego
and like what makes you feelgood and what looks good, and
sometimes the thing that looksgood and feels good is the wrong
thing, and doing the rightthing can be hard, so it's as
hard as it may sound like, doingthings to not be liked or
admired is often the right thingto do.
What do?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
you think, gives people the right to determine
what's right.
You know, because that thatseems to be a floating point
equation, right Where we have asa culture, as a nation, as a,
you know, a species.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's been a floating point operation right
As time's gone by, that's tough,because the thing I guess the
thing you have to look at isnumber one.
You know what is the?
because, frankly, there aresome people that just don't even
have a moral code.
Right, like, like, like, whatis my moral code and what does
that allow for?
You know, and for some peopleit's coming from a G'day
Christian background, for othersthat are coming at it from a
(24:43):
different viewpoint.
But I think if you're notstarting there, it's very hard
for you to define what's rightor wrong.
Right, because then you'resaying, okay, what's right in
this situation, it has to besome sort of moral code or some
sort of code of honor attachedto it.
And if you don't have that,it's much harder to decide that.
And then you have to look atwell, does this help more people
than it hurts?
Well, if it helps more peoplethan it hurts, it's probably a
(25:05):
good thing.
But then you could also look atthat and say, in some
situations it's still a reallybad thing, right.
So to me, if you don't have amoral code underlying it, that
is, a moral code that's agreedon by other people, right, like
it's, it's, it's an agreed onmoral code of the society.
You know that.
Then you're in, you're in arough position, but then you
could also look at it And yougave the example of.
(25:26):
We were talking about Augustusearlier.
I don't remember if you wererecording or not.
Yet You said oh, you know,maybe maybe Joseph Goebbels was
looking at what Augustus wasdoing in terms of the how he's
using propaganda.
Well, the accepted moral codein Germany in the in the 30s and
40s was probably not a verygood thing to be a part of.
So it is.
It is a really difficult thing.
You have to look at.
You know, how does this?
(25:47):
it often comes from a religiousviewpoint, i feel like, because
you have to feel like that thisaffects more than just me and
there is a higher power than me.
It doesn't mean you have to,you know, be a Christian or be a
Jew or be whatever it is.
We have to think there's ahigher power and there's some
sort of morality involved inthis.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And that seems to be one of the core issues that you
run across in a lot of arenas isthe assertion by some that
there is no such thing as ahigher power, there is no such
thing as a true moral cord.
What is right for me may bewrong for you, and we both are
right in choosing those pointsof reference.
That, to me, is a struggle.
(26:23):
That, to me, is that's one ofthe most difficult conversations
for me to have with someonethat is of that viewpoint,
because my basis of it all is,you know, it takes as much faith
.
So let's talk about faith forjust a moment, because it takes
as much faith, if not more faith, for you to believe that then
really it does for me to havethe faith that I because I can
(26:43):
look around at the world and seeflowers and see all the
wonderful creationary thingsthat are here, and think to
myself it's ridiculous in mymind to think of that not being
an intelligent design in someway, and yet that's what Thomas
Aquinas talked about.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like, thomas Aquinas has what's called the 12 proofs
of the existence of God And ifyou look at the fact that
physical, the physical worldexists and there's order to it,
is a big.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
it doesn't just happen, man like it can't be an
accident Like there has to bemore to it.
Well, there has to be a certainamount of, i think, in that
frame of reference, to use atitle of a show that I think
someone does.
Anyways, the frame of reference, i think, has to be pretty
fractured to even get to a placewhere you just don't see any,
(27:31):
anything of order in the worldaround us.
Granted, there's a lot of chaosI wouldn't argue with anyone
that there isn't but to not beable to focus on some order,
some, as you say, moral codethat makes sense for the
greatest number of people,that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It's tough, though, because that could be such a
gray area though too, because italso like I think, frankly, up
to this point in America we'vedone a pretty darn good job in
comparing to past civilizationsand things like that.
But at the same time, you cango to different countries or
different eras in history andyou can look at the moral code
of that time and you're kind oflike yikes, That's very
different than what I have.
So I think having a moral codeas part of it, but also having
(28:14):
some sort of a higher power, isimportant.
But also, you have to look atwhat percentage of people is
this good for?
And if it's, you're still onlyon 50-50, i don't think that's
good enough, man.
It needs to be significantlybetter than that.
And that is the really, reallytough thing, because you look at
what happened in Rwanda, or theRwandan genocide You have the
(28:35):
Hutus and the Tutsis, and youhad one part of the society was
bigger than the other.
So does that make what theywere doing moral and right?
No, it doesn't.
And I think that's where it'sreally difficult to define.
Well, how do you handle thosegray areas?
Because you can't have it.
It's accepted by everybody orit's accepted by nobody, because
there's going to be times whereit's like well, that's a really
(28:56):
bad thing And it's for a smallgroup of people right Like it's
such a moral dilemma, i guess.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, no, and you think about it too.
we're not used to the minorityruling.
We're not used to the minorityhaving something that the
majority does need to listen to.
So authoritarian government'softentimes come into play on
that sort of thing becausethey're going to say, well, no,
you have to do this.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And then I just think it's hard to take spirituality
out of it, because I think whenyou look at that, I feel like
that's what at least makes itbetter.
Do you know what I mean?
I don't know if I'm 100% rightabout that, but I think having a
spiritual element is what makesit better.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Right?
Well, i don't think moral codesexist without personally.
I don't think they existwithout some understanding that
there is some higherunderstanding to this than I'm
capable of.
And when you get it, i find itwith art.
There are those things aboutart, about great music, about
great literature, that unify us.
(29:50):
They bring us together, and ifthere's another reason why
mainstream media is failing,it's because it's lost its
ability and its desire to unify.
they just want to get theminute by minutes and get those
as high as possible, and you'recatering.
I don't care which side you'reFox News or CNN, you're catering
(30:13):
to your sponsorship.
Yes, You kind of have to,because otherwise you're not
going to pay your newscasters'salaries and everything else.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Which, by the way, I know some of those guys make $30
million and $50 million just tosit and read a teleprompter.
Isn't that wild?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, When you think about it and then think of all
the people that get it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
They don't even write it, they have writers.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Exactly.
I mean, they just sit down andsay it because you're who you
are.
It's phenomenal to me.
So what about education?
How does education play intoall this?
I mean, are there, when youlook back at your schooling,
having gone to Oxford, havinggone to when you did your
graduate work, what was that at?
(30:56):
I forget what school you wereat for St.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Hall University, st Hall University.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, there you go.
Did you find in thoseenvironments that that prepared
you for the kind of thing thatyou're providing for people now?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, what's difficult is, I look at it and I
find that the mental work of itwas really good right, Because
you're learning kind of the artof thinking, if that makes sense
, and the art of study and theart of looking at things.
And this is coming from aviewpoint of I don't have the
same education a lot of otherpeople have.
I studied the classics andrhetoric and things like that
(31:29):
and logic.
Most people aren't studyingthose things.
For me there's value.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
There are some people that don't even know what they
are.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Right, but I'm saying there's so much value in a
classical education You get whatI'm saying Like in having that
information and having thoseviewpoints.
I use that each and every day,but that doesn't mean it was
going to help me to go get somesort of a job when I got out.
And I think one of the thingsthat's drastic and missing is
number one, just like how oureducation system is set up.
Our education system currentlyis run on the Austro-Hungarian
(32:00):
model And that model during theAustro-Hungarian Empire was
meant to turn out soldiers andtradesmen, most of which, unless
we have a standing military, wedon't really have any more.
So I think when you look at it,it doesn't serve a purpose to
somebody like starting abusiness or having an idea or
implementing it or building askill set.
(32:22):
I think that we should befocusing more on classical
education earlier, right, likethe grammar school, middle
school type area, and then weshould be looking at some sort
of like apprenticeship typeprogram.
You know, maybe you work in atrade for a bit or you work in a
tie area for a bit And then youfrom there would go to college
if you really need to, right,like if you're a doctor.
(32:43):
Do not cut me open unless yougot the right degrees, man,
because we're going to have someproblems.
But like or a lawyer orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
But I really feel deep inside.
I'm a doctor, I just I feel it.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
So you're a doctor doesn't mean you can cut me open
.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I have three participation awards for being
in surgical, you know, arenas.
That makes me right.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
But do you get what I'm saying?
Like I feel like we've, we've,we're not preparing our kids to
be able to do something Andwe're just telling them like, oh
, you have this degree, you know, go get a job in women's
studies or something, right, butwho's hiring for that?
Right?
Like I have a master's degreein history.
Like we was, i got to go workat a museum.
Like what was I going to dowith that?
Like I think what we really haveto take a look at is things
(33:25):
that prepare kids for life butalso give them the right type of
education and thought process.
And there is no bettereducation than the classics And
I'm talking about, you know,herodotus, the Roman and Greek
history and things like thatAmerican history.
Those things are really, reallyimportant.
Language skills, but I thinkyou only need so much of them,
(33:45):
right?
You don't need eight years andother four years and then
another four years, becausecollege to me is really just
become like a second part ofhigh school, right?
So like we're just kind ofrevisiting high school.
Now everybody's got a collegedegree.
So if you really want toseparate yourself, you need an
MA or a PhD, and it's like Ijust don't see the value in it
where I think if you had somesort of an apprenticeship, you
(34:07):
know you have an applicableskill, you know if you like
something or don't likesomething, and if you don't go
to college you can just go do atrade.
You know what I mean.
Like I think that it just needsto change drastically And I'm
just not super happy with thesystem we have.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I have a professor years ago that had said college
is where you go to learn whatyou want to know, and graduate
school is where you go torealize how much there is to
know.
So, that that's carried me along way in understanding how
the educational system works.
My daughter is studyingmulticultural studies and
(34:45):
interracial studies and gettingher master's degree and finds
too that you talk about theAustro-Hungarian model, that at
least in Wisconsin there's alsoan agrarian model, or, you know,
emphasis to it That is whitemale oriented And that part of
it is where she's really seeingthe systematic issues that need
(35:05):
to be confronted and reallydealt with in a way that you
know maybe makes white people inFlorida uncomfortable, you know
.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Well, i think part of it is too like we've tried to,
and I don't know how you do thisat scale, but like I think the
best education is individualized.
Do you know what I mean?
And I think, if we can figureout how to, like, i've been in
some great programs where theygive you a course book, somebody
walks around and helps eachperson with their course book
and answers their questions whenneeded, like, and I think
people can get a lot out ofhaving more individualized
(35:36):
education.
I just think, because here'swhat you have to look at, right,
like we I'm in New Jersey,right, the north part of New
Jersey is very agrarian.
The central part of New Jerseyis very, very city like, and you
know it's, you know they'redifferent, more racist than
there are in northern New Jersey.
And then you go to southern NewJersey and there's nobody there
, so, like, except except thebeach for the summer, okay, but
(35:58):
like, so like how people learnand what they learn and the
methods and what they learn andthings is so different.
Right, and I think to say like,okay, so this model works in
northern New Jersey, it's goingto work in central and southern,
or this model works in NewJersey, let's stick it in
Wisconsin, right, and that's whyI think the thing that's tough
is like I think even having likea like a national strategy for
education can be tough, becauseeven states are different,
(36:21):
within states are different, ithink communities are different.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Communities are different.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Communities are different, i think I think we do
have to have some standards,right, because people should be
able to, like, all speak Englishtogether.
That's pretty important and,you know, use the same math.
But I think, at the same time,communities are so different.
Our problem is much bigger thanwe think.
You get what I'm saying.
Yeah, our problem is muchbigger than what we think it is.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, well, and when you can't even have a decent
conversation with someonewithout it turning into an
argument My son has noted to methat you know It's interesting
to him to have conversationswith people and they get to a
point where they have notthought it through well enough
to Say the things that they'rearguing and they don't.
They are really not even sure,i think, that they they believe
(37:05):
They've just identified withsomething and are so down that
rabbit hole that they can't comeout anymore.
But they'll just get to a pointwhere, like oh, f you man, f
you so is like that That's whenyou know you won the argument.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
By the way, when the other person yells, swear as you
cause you a name, you know youwon.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
It's like they can't do anything more except f you
and get out of it, right.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So my favorite, my favorite meme is I saw this,
this meme, and it was like oneof the guys in the TV show
Yellowstone and the meme was.
I Know I was lose.
I know I lost the argument tenminutes ago.
Now I'm just trying to piss youoff.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, that seems to be the main thing going on with
a lot of our politicians today.
Right, it's just.
I'm just gonna, you know we'llfind the thing, the trigger
thing that's gonna make you gonuts, and then I'll watch you
disintegrate.
You know it's like a businesstechnique or strategy, almost.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, i don't understand it, man, when it's
like there's, when you look atit like I don't care what side
of the fence you're on.
Iron should sharpen iron, right.
Like we should have good ideasthat make somebody else's ideas
have to be better, and the bestidea should win because it's
better.
And I think we've just gottento a point where it's like
you're a liberal or you're aRepublican, well, you're this,
(38:13):
so you're that, are you?
and it's like guys like come on, is this third grade?
like what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Right, right, i mean, you sit back and say that is
not what defines me.
You know, i think another thingI read in your materials too,
is that that idea of I don'tknow what I am really.
You know, i mean, i think youand I share that too, that on a
financial side, or the thefiscal side, i'm very
conservative, but on virtuallyevery other issue I'm very
(38:40):
socially, educationally,artistic.
You know, i think there are somany things in that realm that
will make us a better society.
And so then the big problem Ihave is okay, well, how do we
pay for it and who's paying forit, and how do we?
you know, how do we get there?
And it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I'm politically homeless man.
I'm politically.
Look at it, i'm.
I'm fiscally very conservative.
Yeah but I'm I'm extremelyliberal socially.
Like, yeah, like you know whatI mean.
Like, right, many of my friendsare our would consider
themselves pro-life, but I'mpro-choice within reason right,
i think it should be safe, safe,legal and rare, but like at the
same time other people likethat's crazy And I'm like
(39:17):
socially I'm I'm pretty, i'mpretty liberal right and you
know You get into any of thosearguments too and it's like,
well, what?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
what is the alternative?
when you say you can't, we knowthat that doesn't work, right,
it just it doesn't work.
So what do you do then?
You know, it's like you'reassuming that people are all
gonna believe what you believeand just get in line.
It's like, no, no, that doesn't.
On a human level, that doesn'twork.
Come on, what about?
I'm gonna run out of time.
(39:43):
Looking at this is already tenminutes before you.
Well, maybe we can find a timeto come back around to.
That would be great.
So I've already done that witha couple of the guests you sent
my way, so you would not be thefirst one to do that.
So, but let's talk a little bitabout leadership, because
you're leading people.
You're trying to lead people toa better place, right?
I mean, we're going into a formand, hey, i absolutely agree
(40:06):
with you.
The podcast format has alloweda a generational, you know, a
tectonic shift in how peoplehave conversations, because it's
demonstrating Goodconversations, i hope.
You know, in most cases unlessthey're, you know, pundits that
are just arguing a point of viewAnd that's all they're doing.
But when you've interviewedsome of the people, you have
(40:29):
some high-powered people arethere.
I think there are principles ofleadership that you've alluded
to that you found what.
What does that look like forsomeone?
I want to know what a goodleader is and stops following
the ones that are bad leadersbut just have big mouths well
there's.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
So I had an interview with David Petraeus, who was a
four-star general led centralcommand for a while.
Then he was the CIA directorfor for a bit, and One of the
things that he said he wastalking about gosh, when he was
just a just a new officer, his,his, his kind of higher higher
(41:05):
officer at that time.
I don't remember his rank, buthe was saying that the thing
that was really interestingabout him Is when you're in the
military, like typically, yourego is bigger than the number of
metals in your chest, whichmost of them don't have a chest
big enough to pin all the metalsthey have on.
Yeah, and he said the thingthat was really cool about this
guy His name was Jack and Idon't remember his last name, so
I apologize, general Petraeus,that I'm forgetting, but he said
(41:25):
the thing that was really coolabout him is He had no ego for
the entire chest of metals Heshould have had, even where most
of his metals at the time,because he thought it was kind
of like ridiculous to show off.
And he said that because heapproached these situations
where it wasn't like look at me,i'm the leader, look how
important I am, people were morewilling to follow him.
When he demanded something,like if he wanted a drink, he
(41:46):
wouldn't say, hey, officer, comeover here and get me a drink,
you get himself a drink.
Or you know He wanted acigarette, he'd get himself a
cigarette.
And I think, when you're lookingat leadership, people want to
follow somebody that'll workjust as hard as them and will.
You know It's it's from thebook art of war like people will
follow somebody That will, thatwill work just as hard as they
will, and not ask them to doanything They wouldn't be
(42:06):
willing to do themselves.
Sure, and I think to me that'swhat it really comes down to and
that's what good leadership is.
It's not like you know I'm theleader, follow me.
It's.
You know we're gonna do this,you know I will go through it
with you And you know I willtake as much responsibility as I
can because I am responsiblefor this group.
But to me that's what a reallygood leader is, and that was one
(42:26):
of the things I learned fromgeneral Petraeus.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So do you?
when you're being the head ofan organization like you are, do
you find yourself Wanting tosurround yourself with other
leaders or just better followers?
I mean, do you want people thatare going head-to-head with you
and budding you about betterideas, or would you rather have
people that like okay, chief,here I go, i'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
so Early on, i wanted followers and I found that
didn't.
It doesn't work and it doesn'tbuild an organization.
So what I ended up doing isfinding people that You know,
frankly, should be runninganother company.
You know what I mean like, andpeople having people like that
in your business Will help youbuild an amazing business.
Now the thing you have to do iscontinue to create
opportunities for them andcontinue give them opportunities
(43:08):
to grow and to do other things.
So they're gonna leave you,true, but like to me that you're
gonna build the bestorganization with people That
are gonna kind of make you belike man.
I'm glad they're on my team.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You know what I mean, like having people like that on
your team.
Yeah, well, i think of I thinkit's uh Lenshione.
Patrick Lenshione talks abouthaving people that you have that
sort of uh, you knowconversation.
You get all the good ideas, allthe best ideas out on the table
and then, at the point whereyou have to make a decision to
move forward, that there'ssomebody that says folks, i hear
(43:39):
everything that people aresaying there's such wonderful
ideas, such, you know, greatactivities.
Some of you are not going toagree with the decision that I'm
going to make, but somebody'sgot to make the decision, so I'm
, i'm going to have to do that.
I hope you'll trust me and comealong, you know, as we try this
as a potential solution to theissue.
Right, yeah, so do you findthat there are certain kinds of
(44:00):
people you can't work with, thatyou can't lead, and what does
that look like?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
To me.
I really struggle with peoplethat want other people to feel
sorry for them and it's apersonality type man like I've
you.
It's hard to inspire peoplelike that, it's hard to push
people like that because they'llcrack.
Um, like I, just I've foundthat I'm somebody that I'm
intense, i ask a lot, i demand alot, but I'm also going to give
a lot, and it's it's hard to tome to to lead people that are
(44:29):
kind of like a, a wet blanket,if that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, man, i think onlyonly Linus can lead those people
.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Well, again, mark Twain right.
He says the weakest of all weakthings is a virtue that's not
been tested by fire and thatthat always struck me as the
issue with.
You know, i come from aJudeo-Christian background as
well, and Christians andchurches that I had been a part
of that would face some horriblesituation.
You know a child died or or youknow a whole bunch of
(44:59):
calamities happen in their youknow just economic situation and
they the ones that had beenthrough adversity.
You know they.
They said, okay, well, this hashappened, i gotta figure out
how do we get by it.
We're gonna keep on working andget past it.
And the people that had neverfaced that were just stuck going
.
Why, why did this happen to me?
I don't understand.
(45:19):
A loving God would do this tome, and I think you know God's a
whole lot more interested inyour character than he is in
your circumstance.
So, yes, do you find there werecircumstances in your life that
I mean you?
you went through some hardship.
You had some times in your lifewhere tried things that failed
miserably and then tried anotherthing and it failed miserably.
What kept you?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
going well.
I think that the big thing isrealizing because you have to go
back thing.
A lot of people look at thisand it's like that, that scene
in Caddyshack where it's rainingand the the priest puts his up,
his golf club up and getsstruck by lightning after he
just curses God.
I think often we have to lookat it and say, yes, there, you
know, there is a higher powerand that higher power gives us
(46:00):
free will.
It's within, it's within ourmeans.
What do we do with that?
and I think often it's lookingat a situation saying, okay,
well, i, you know, i reallyscrewed the pooch there.
What can I do about it?
so I think that it's.
I've had some tough thingshappen, man, like I've almost
lost a parent, i got last rightsmyself.
I, you know, had some extremebusiness failures.
I've had times that I couldn'tmake payroll and I've had to
(46:22):
figure out how to pay that andthings like that.
So it's you, look at thatsituation.
You say, how can I learn fromit?
what policy can I put in place?
never do it again.
But I think often people wantto say, well, this happened to
me.
Or you know, like you know, god, let's have a mean like no man
he gives you free will.
It's your ability to make it goright, you know, or you're just
like that priest in Caddyshackget struck by lightning do you
find yourself now, given allthat, looking forward to
(46:44):
adversity, or is it just youaccept it when it happens?
um, i think when it happens youhave to look at it for the
opportunity in it, but I thinkat the same time you're a little
bit of a masochist if you wantit to happen all the time.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
You know what I mean yeah, well, you know it's weird
because when you, when youembrace adversity, you almost
feel like you should have thissense of okay, bring it.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
You know, you know, like you cannot wait till the
next nest of machine gunnershows up on my way to the
grocery store yeah, like no manlike I'm gonna embrace it when
it shows up and figure out howit can be better for me, i'm not
gonna go out there looking forit right?
Speaker 1 (47:15):
yeah, yeah, do not, you know, ask for a dude.
Yeah, i did it.
I did that early out of my life.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I thought you know okay bring it, i will take it
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
And then I'm like what was I thinking?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
so I was in my 20s and thought yeah, and then it's
like, yeah, no, you have no ideawhat you're asking for, so just
shut up, it's you, you look atit and you're like okay, so like
it's work smarter and work orwork harder, right, like you can
work smarter and work betterwithin the confines and realize
you know how can I learn fromthis?
but I don't think necessarilyalways just working hard is the
answer great folks.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
My guest today has been Jeremy Ryan Slate.
Uh, he is one of the peoplethat I love talking with.
The command your brand, yourorganization, has sent my way
because the conversationshouldn't end.
You don't want it to end, sothank you so much for being a
part of that kind ofconversation with me today.
So, jeremy, here is a podcastfrom media experts.
So if you need to, if you'vegot a podcast and you're
(48:08):
listening to this, you need totalk with the folks that command
your brand, because they do anexcellent job of of curating
interesting guests that will fityour your slate.
Sorry, couldn't resist, sorry,but thank you, jeremy, you take
care of yourself, all right hey,thank you so much for having me
man hope to talk to you againsometime and we've been talking
(48:29):
here on frame of reference, saucCounty and beyond, tuna next
week, who knows who we'll have?
that's going to be my adventurein potentially adversity and
potentially wonderment, so takecare.
Well, welcome to another episode of Frame of
Reference, Salt County andBeyond.
And we are continuing ourBeyond Factor here, folks, And
I'm excited I've been excitedabout the last few guests that
we've had on the show,particularly, and it is due to
my guest today who is thefounder of the organization that
(00:34):
has been routing these peopleto me, an organization called
Command Your Brand, And my guestis none other than the
president, great, great exaltedone and grand pooba of Command
Your Brand.
Well, actually, probably yourwife is right, Brielle is
probably the grand exalted pooba.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You're just No, well, in all things home, yes, in all
things business.
No, she does operations whereI'm more of like the executive
function.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Okay, excellent.
Well, this is none other thanJeremy Ryan Slate.
Jeremy, thank you so much forbeing with me.
Thank you for taking the timefor that.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So Thank you, man.
You call me grand pooba.
I feel like I got to give you ayabba-dabba-doo or something.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, something like that.
Yeah, I mean, that would onlybe appropriate.
So A loyal water buffalo man.
Yeah, you know, i was watchingBeverly Hillbillies the other
day and I remembered they havethe billiards room.
if you've ever watched thatshow, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
they have that big animal on thewall.
I said we can't figure out whatthat is, but we think it's a
billiard.
So, yeah, okay.
So, jeremy, i read a bit aboutyour background.
(01:34):
You had your Well, you stillhave Create Your Own Life
podcast, which is reallydesigned towards making people
that think they're just ordinary, helping them to find what it
is that will make themextraordinary and go for it,
essentially.
But you're the guest thatyou've had on that show.
Are everybody from Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Now that Tom Brady wasn't on it, but you talked
about Tom, that'd be nice, right, he's coming, though I bet you
he's coming So.
Well, he's got a lot more timeon his hands now.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Exactly So now that he's not doing that football
thing anymore, gosh.
But you've interviewed everyonefrom four-star generals to CIA
directors, so Which I can onlyimagine how fun that must be.
But you and your wife foundedYeah, founded Command Your Brand
to help visionary founders usethe power of podcasts to change
(02:25):
the world.
I thought.
What was particularlyinteresting to me, too, is that
you now live in New Jersey andthat you raise chickens in our
former competitive powerlifter.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Right, we have two dozen chickens And we just got
our second rooster too.
Because when you have Like theone rooster we have, he's
certainly a little bitaggressive now because what
happens is like if they kind ofgot this big pack of ladies and
like they don't have anycompetition, they start to kind
of feel their oats a little bitand he's kind of started going
after humans.
So we got a second rooster.
(02:55):
So now, like because they'reusually good for about eight
chickens on their own, so nowthey'll kind of compete a little
bit, which would be good, andhe'll calm down and stop going
after us.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
One hopes at least, right.
So come on, chicken, get inline here.
It's working in the past.
Yeah, yeah, that's.
But everything's like that,right?
If it's not chickens, it'spoliticians.
I guess They're kind of allover the place.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But a good place to put them in is at the bottom of
the ocean, but we don't havethat.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
That works for me Concrete boots all around.
So, as we always do, jeremy,i'm going to start out with my
favorite things as part of ourpodcast, so I just like to.
This is completely gestaltian.
Don't think a whole lot aboutthis.
If you have to, you have to,but try to have it be what just
comes genuinely from Jeremy RyanSlate's heart and soul.
(03:46):
all right, these are reallyprobing too.
So first one is favorite food.
Can I do it more Rorschach thangestaltian No you have to do the
whole, because you have to takethe whole picture of things,
right.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can I give you the ink a lot in front of you.
Well, rorschach is final too.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So you have to be from New Jersey to understand
this.
But Taylor Ham, and you have tobe from Northern New Jersey, by
the way, in Southern New Jerseyyou'd call it something else.
In Northern New Jersey it'scalled the Taylor Ham Egg and
Cheese.
In Southern New Jersey it'scalled a pork roll, egg and
cheese.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Interesting, so you have to put this in a Taylor Ham
and Egg and Cheese.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
In other places they call it Canadian bacon, but it's
this round ham and you get astack of that with a nice
scrambled egg on it, toastedhard roll, with some nice
American or cheddar cheese on it.
And then they call it SPK,which is salt, pepper, ketchup.
It is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
That sounds like something we should have in
Wisconsin, because then it couldhave Wisconsin cheese on it too
.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, i get out to Wisconsin though soon.
though man, i do one share theGreen Bay Packers man, So I got
to get out to Lambeau.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, well, there's the deal too.
I'll tell you.
When they called the DallasCowboys America's team, i always
just want to stop them dead intheir tracks and say, hey, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Green Packers are the only onesstill owned by the people.
Okay, so if anybody is theAmerica's, that's a Green Bay
Packers.
So how about a favorite quote?
You have a favorite quote?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It's a quote by Vince Lombardi, and I think this was
This was actually during theperiod when he was with Green
Bay, it wasn't when he was withNew York.
And I'm going to paraphrasethis I hope I don't screw it up
that we are going to endlesslychase perfection, knowing that
perfection is not possible, andin that chase we will chase
(05:35):
perfection and in that we willcatch excellence, because you
can't be perfect.
So, yeah, really Excellent.
I apologize to the estate ofVince Lombardi.
I totally butchered that thing.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, and you know that there are some folks out
there right now going that's notquite right, yes, yeah, well,
that's okay.
They're the ones that are, iguess, perfection, or the rest
of us are just striving forexcellence.
That actually fits a lot ofyour mantra, doesn't it?
that saying that soundsfoundational to me, almost, for
who you've become.
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, i think so because I think, like you, i'm a
big believer I don't know aboutyou, but I'm a big believer in
hard work and life skills and Ithink, like you, have to work
and work and work and work atsomething, even though you kind
of stink sometimes and you knowyou only get better by doing
something right.
Like it's the old phrase of howto get to Carnegie Hall.
But practice, practice,practice right.
That's how life is right.
If you want to be the best atsomething, you got to keep doing
(06:29):
it, You got to keep working,You got to keep improving, And
so, like that's always how I'velooked at things.
I'm a big believer in doinglike.
Sure, I've studied a lot anddone whatever, but I actually
learned more by implementing andtrying to figure things out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Sure, While you even talk about that, right, Your dad
was one of the hardest workingpeople you ever have known,
right?
So that's the.
I think that's a quality thatwe do kind of grow up and around
or we don't learn it at all.
And I had to laugh.
One of the comments made aboutparticipation awards that life
is not about participationawards And I've always thought
(07:02):
those were like one of the worstideas anyone ever came up with,
because it's not enough toparticipate.
It's so weird, man, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
It's so weird Cause, like I like, so I grew up in the
mid 80s, right?
So, like, I think the world'sgotten to be like a lot
different than, and, like youknow, my dad played professional
baseball and he didn't quiteget up to the majors.
But you know, like you, eitherone or you lost, right?
That's how it is in the worldAnd I think that's how the how
the real life is.
But they started doing thisthing when I was younger where,
all right, the whole, the wholebaseball team gets a trophy,
(07:31):
It's like, but we didn't, wedidn't win anything Like what is
the point?
Because there's big value inlosing.
If you can take a look at that,figure out why you lost, you
can take that thing and improveon that thing and get better.
But if we're not doing that,there's no value in it, am I?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
right, right, i totally agree.
And not to mention, there ishuge value in losing, in that
just because you lose doesn'tmake you a loser, and that's
where we somehow thought that itwas something to do with our
self-esteem.
In reality, if there's anythingthat comes out of that process,
it's improving your self-esteemthrough improving yourself.
(08:06):
I mean, i don't quite get that.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, i'm not a big believer in the whole
self-esteem thing because itstarted being like.
I remember my parents talkingabout it when I was younger.
It wasn't really a thing untilI was like five or six and then
it kind of became like the hipthing to talk about.
And, if you look at it,production is the basis of
morale, right?
So if you're doing somethingand you're working at something,
you're going to feel good,right.
And I think too often we wantto feel good just because we are
(08:29):
And it's like well, you knowwhat I mean.
I think, a lot of timesself-esteem is earned man.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, i wonder if maybe we need a different term
for it too.
I've always thought of myselfas kind of a work in progress
And it's like I direct a lot ofplays, right, and when you
direct a play, i mean you startout sucking.
It does.
The first time the cast istogether and they're reading the
script and they have no ideawhat they're reading.
They have no idea what thecharacter's about and they're
learning.
(08:55):
And then you get to all thatproduction time and all that
investment and energy trying tobring it all together And then I
can't watch the show when it'sactually up and running.
It's really hard for me towatch the show at that point
because I know it's not going toget any better.
Really, it's now hit the endAnd I keep seeing the things
that man.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I can't listen to my voice recorded after the fact.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Oh, isn't that work.
So it's like one of thosethings where you just sit back
and go geez, i would have donethis.
I wish I would have done that,all that jazz.
So how about a favorite book?
You have a favorite book.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
There's been so many man.
The one that's coming to meright now is Atlas Shrugged by
Iron Rand.
Okay, i don't know if you'veever read Atlas Shrugged Yeah,
yeah, a long time ago, and youkind of need a long attention
span if you're going to readthat one.
I think it's like 1400 pages orsomething like that.
But I think it shows you whathappens when you start rewarding
(09:49):
nonproducers, like what we'vebeen talking about here, what
happens to society, and you kindof bastardize and kind of get
rid of the idea of achievement.
Well then the achievers justsay well, we're leaving.
So to me, i think there's a lotof value in that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, isn't it interesting?
I keep thinking about that, thenonproducers quality.
it strikes me that part of our,maybe part of our problem with
nonproducing as a concept isthat we don't realize that is
more than just producing.
you know, monetizing it Right,well, you can create value in so
(10:27):
many ways.
Right, right.
So having people figure out away to create that value and
realize that it's not just aboutme and what makes me happy that
there's a lot to doing what'sgood for all of us around, right
.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, because I think , when you look at it, like
there's value could be createdin so many ways.
but there's a couple ofviewpoints on this.
Right, like, when you look atit, there's the person that says
, okay, i'm going to help myselfand others survive better.
Right, and I think that's theright viewpoint to have.
There's the other viewpointthat says, please help me
survive, and I think, when youlook at it, that's a really
dangerous viewpoint because itdoesn't add to society and it
(11:01):
takes away from others that aretrying to help others.
you know.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah Yeah, i have quite a few people in my life
that are in that.
It's energy sucking, too, whichis problematic.
So how about a favorite bird?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Favorite bird?
Well, I'm going to have to gowith the Easter egg or chicken.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Easter egg or chicken , okay, which you probably have
one.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
They lay bright blue eggs.
I have three of them.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, Bright blue eggs, huh.
So right, it's easy.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
At Easter time, you don't have to worry about
coloring those, right It's funnythough, and I don't know why it
is, but like and I always havethis running joke with my
mother-in-law like Easter egg orchickens, for some times they
have a tendency to try to hidetheir own eggs.
So I was like, wow, they'reeggs that are already colored
and hide themselves.
You just got to hope you findthem so they don't go bad.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Well, they're probably going around going.
These are very special eggs.
I don't want just anyone to goturn them into some Jersey
omelet or something.
That would be awful.
So I get it.
How about?
do you have a favoritepersonality?
Is there, do you have an, Iguess, an idol?
You've talked about severalpeople that you admire a lot,
that you've met over time, butis there someone that really
(12:08):
epitomizes the qualities thatyou find are very admirable,
emulatable, if that's a word?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, if you want somebody that gets stuff done,
I'd say George S Patton, but Idon't know how much fun he was
able to hang out with withfamily time.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Especially if you were a soldier that had shells
or shock.
That's not a good idea.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, but like I guess if you had to look at it,
that's tough.
Because I think if you look atsomebody like Martin Luther King
, like I think the thing that'scool about him is you know they
put him in prison, they did allthese things to him And even you
know people in his own movementtried to take what he had and
twisted it.
He just wanted everybody to dobetter, do better, because they
(12:47):
were adding value to society.
I think that is extremelyadmirable.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, well, and you talk quite a bit about that
adversity being something weneed to embrace rather than
something we need to.
I'm not doing well.
My life is so hard.
Yeah, that's just a bad hole togo down, so how about it?
Do you have a favorite placethat you like to go to?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Favorite place, budapest.
Hungary was one of my favoritecities.
Actually, we stayed in a boathotel on the Danube, which was
incredible, and I love Budapest.
Hungary was great.
We've been a whole bunch ofplaces in Europe.
Budapest was my favorite though.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Okay, so there's a lot of excellent things about
Budapest.
There's something about thecity just has an incredible
amount of beauty to it.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's interesting too because, like so, the Danube
goes through the middle of thecity, the Danube River, and they
call it Budapest, but it'sactually two cities One side is
Buda and the other side is Pest,and together they're Budapest.
And there's also on the Budaside there is the largest
natural hot springs in the world, which is really cool, so it's
(13:56):
a very cool place.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Excellent.
Okay, last question.
I want to get to move on to themeat of the interview.
A favorite memory that you havefrom childhood, something that
maybe you think about, that justmakes you feel put you in a
better place, or something thatyou have a I don't know.
I think of things that you runacross and you go oh yeah, i
(14:19):
remember that now.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So it was this one particular time playing catch
with my dad in the backyard ofour house.
My dad was a pitcher And my dadused to throw like a high 90s
fastball.
And he used to throw thiscurveball.
That was.
He used to throw this curveballwith a, which they call a 12 to
six.
So it'd come out and you go andit would just drop.
So he's playing catch with a 10year old and throwing it as
(14:42):
hard as he possibly can And Ijust to me that was just
exhilarating trying to catch it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Well, yeah, i mean, talk about having to learn how
to, you know, succeed.
So well, that's like you know.
I forget who it's chess masterwas that?
remember him talking about.
He would play with children.
He would just demolish them Andyou know people would just sit
back and go my God you're doing.
Why are you doing that to thechildren?
This is like they have to learnto play better.
That you know I'm.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I'm making them a disservice by not making them
play better, right, right.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
My wife used to give me a hard time for beating our
son at chess and I'm not by nomeans a phenomenal chess player
but she's like, why don't youlet him win?
I'm like I'm not letting anyonewin, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm sorry.
I remember the first, the firsttime my dad always used to be
faster than me running And Iremember when he got into his
like mid, mid to late forties itwas the first time I finally
beat him running And I looked athim and goes, looks like he got
old dad.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah right, took you home, Whoop.
Yeah, that's.
That's the point where you knowI'm still your dad boy, so but
all right, now, jeremy, you havea phenomenal story, i think,
and it's a story that needs tobe heard, and I'm so glad that
you have the podcast that youhave with the followership you
(15:58):
have, and I have to say, anotherwhere a place where I've really
identified with you is in yourdesire to have meaningful
conversations with people.
Personally, what I found isthat that's difficult to find a
listenership for.
It's a difficult thing to findan audience for, because it
(16:18):
seems, to me at least, that wehave a have really cultivated,
largely put this on the media'sshoulders.
We have largely cultivated anaudience of people that want
other people to do the thinkingfor them.
They just want to be able tosign on for the ride, and that,
to me, is so dangerous and sodivisive, polarizing, stupid,
(16:42):
which makes sense.
But how do you find that you'returning that around or moving
the needle?
Is that?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
how do you deal with it?
I guess the part of it is likewe didn't start there, right, i
think.
I think often it can be hard tostart in places that really
matter, but you have to startsomewhere.
So we started with whatinterested us.
You know what interested inwhat helped people, which a lot
of it was where I started, youknow, trying to figure out a
business that worked, trying todo different things, that that
that worked.
And you know, as I've grown andmatured you know the show is
(17:13):
grown and matured Like I'm verydifferent at almost 40 than I
was at 20 when I started thisshow And which is four years
into before, which is kind ofwild to me, but you know I look
at it Wait till you get to 60.
That's where it really startedAnd you feel 24 inside My dad's
going to be 70 next year.
It's wild man, but like you,look at it, and the things that
(17:36):
matter to me in my late 30s areactually the things that matter
the most in life.
How is the family doing?
What are the things that matterpolitically?
You know, how do we get along?
How do we figure out thesedifferent things?
And I think the thing you findis when you have these
conversations from kind of lessof a polarizing vantage point
(17:59):
And because you know what I mean, you have to have people on the
far right and people on the farleft Thank you, they're the
loudest ones and they just wantto shout whatever it is You find
most of the people actuallysomewhere in the middle.
And I think when you can findout how to communicate to those
people and have conversationswhere you're not bad mouthing,
where you're not calling names,where you're trying to do things
that are thoughtful and you cansay well, you know I don't
agree with you, but I respectyou And I think when we can get
(18:19):
better at that, that's to me.
That's where I started to hitmy sweet spot and more people
started to be attracted to themessage that I wanted to have.
But I didn't start there.
I had to grow there.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Sure Yeah, and there's something I think it's a
.
I'm paraphrasing this, butthere's a phrase from Emerson
that my dad related to him, bythe way.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Really, how so My my on my mom's side?
my mom's maiden name wasEmerson, so my first child's
name is Emerson.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Well, the first time I've ever met somebody related
to Ralph Waldo Emerson This is abanner day for me, let me tell
you, jeremy.
So my dad used to carry thislittle thing that he had typed
up on a typewriter and just hadit folded up And kept there, and
I have not, for the life of me,been able to find this actually
in writing.
But as I remember it, thesaying was the the vehemence of
(19:07):
my opponent's argument convincesme that I am perhaps a little
bit wrong And he is perhaps alittle bit right.
So I've always said that's just.
That's the way I really havetried to approach a lot of
things in life is you don't getanywhere by yelling at someone.
You get somewhere byunderstanding someone that
doesn't agree with you.
And that's where I reallyreally hold our politicians and
(19:31):
our media responsible right nowis they are trying to find the
biggest conflict and monetize it, yeah, and it's just like.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I think to me that's why legacy media and traditional
media is dying, because peopledon't.
People don't want that anymore.
And then, like you know, it'slike it's, and not if you're for
against him, but whatever, justas an example, you look at
somebody, like you know, tuckerCarlson, moving off a TV and
he's on Twitter now And the guygot 70 million views yesterday,
right.
So it's like you look at it,like traditional media wants to
scare us, wants to make us angry, wants to make us hate each
(20:01):
other, wants to make us fight.
Where, if you look out intowhat's happening with what you
and I are doing in kind of thisnew media world, like people are
having real conversations andtaking a look at issues and
things that matter to our livesAnd we're not debasing each
other You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Right, right.
Well, we're not trying todemean each other.
As you've said, there areplenty of people you've
interviewed that you don'tnecessarily agree with, but
you'll fight to the death to beable to make sure they have
their right to disagree with you.
You know, and that that's adifficult thing.
Someone that's out therelistening hopefully someone out
there listening right now isgoing.
People are just stupid if theydon't agree with me.
(20:40):
I have really struggled withthat, you know.
Especially I am in my sixtiesAnd I think of a lot of people
that are my age are so stuck intheir ways and in their biases
And I see that as such a.
I mean, what is your phrasefrom Mark Twain?
Most people die at twenty seven.
(21:01):
It just takes till seventy twofor them to be buried.
That to me, is a death.
You know, if you've let yourbiases so consume you that you
can't consider there might beanother belief system or another
reason to believe in somethingelse, that, how do you counter
that?
How do you find yourselfpersonally and professionally
countering that?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Well, i think there's two parts to that.
First, and like I go back tothat Mark Twain quote, like he's
talking about people that havelost the ability to dream, right
, because, like life is beatingthe up or whatever it may be,
and I think, when you look at it, a man is is as alive as he can
dream.
And I think once you can't dothat anymore, you become more
bitter, you become more able tosee, you know the viewpoint of
(21:43):
others.
As an interviewer, the hardestthing to learn, but the thing
that has served me the most islearning to understand the
viewpoint of the person sittingin front of you, right, because
I think you're learning to askquestions from the viewpoint of
the person listening to you,because so often we can ask
questions because, well, thatthat's interesting to me, but
it's like, ok, there are peoplelistening to this, what are they
(22:03):
trying to get out of that?
And I think, when you can learnhow to realize that number one,
this is very hard people.
Number one others exist andhave viewpoints.
Number two how do thoseviewpoints have to do with what
you're doing, right?
I think so often we're juststuck on us and what we want,
and we have to understand thatthere's many different areas of
our lives that we're a part of.
(22:23):
Right, there's yourself andyour family.
There's the groups you're apart of.
There's mankind.
There's, you know, the animalworld that you're a part of.
There's the physical worldyou're a part of Like.
There's all these differentthings and you have to look at
what is an optimum solution,right, what is a solution that's
good for each one of the mostof these areas?
right, like.
Something's not always going tobe the best for all of them,
but what is the thing that's thebest for most of them?
I think people really strugglewith that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Right, yeah, that whole.
What is it Lincoln's quoteabout?
you can't, you can't please allthe people all the time, nor
can you please.
You can please some of thepeople some of the time and some
of the people all the time, butyou can't please all of the
people all the time, and thatthat's a.
I've struggled with that.
You know someone that is usedto getting in audiences applause
(23:07):
.
You know kind of thing You wanteverybody to like you.
You know so.
But you always see the one guythat's in the audience that's
not clapping, you know, or thathas fallen asleep.
That's the worst, you know,when you're on stage and some
guy that's taking a nap in themiddle of your trying to put
this out there.
But they, they're there and you, those are the ones you can
want to take after the show andsay why did you fall asleep?
(23:28):
What was going on?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I think, like something.
This is once again.
I'm giving all this advice, butit's damn hard Like to do these
things in action.
But, like you know, one of thebiggest things for me is when I
stopped worrying about beingliked or admired and just doing
what I thought was right.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That was a game changer.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right, because it's but when you do things to be
liked or admired, you're doingthings more from a place of ego
and like what makes you feelgood and what looks good, and
sometimes the thing that looksgood and feels good is the wrong
thing, and doing the rightthing can be hard, so it's as
hard as it may sound like, doingthings to not be liked or
admired is often the right thingto do.
What do?
Speaker 1 (24:06):
you think, gives people the right to determine
what's right.
You know, because that thatseems to be a floating point
equation, right Where we have asa culture, as a nation, as a,
you know, a species.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
That's been a floating point operation right
As time's gone by, that's tough,because the thing I guess the
thing you have to look at isnumber one.
You know what is the?
because, frankly, there aresome people that just don't even
have a moral code.
Right, like, like, like, whatis my moral code and what does
that allow for?
You know, and for some peopleit's coming from a G'day
Christian background, for othersthat are coming at it from a
(24:43):
different viewpoint.
But I think if you're notstarting there, it's very hard
for you to define what's rightor wrong.
Right, because then you'resaying, okay, what's right in
this situation, it has to besome sort of moral code or some
sort of code of honor attachedto it.
And if you don't have that,it's much harder to decide that.
And then you have to look atwell, does this help more people
than it hurts?
Well, if it helps more peoplethan it hurts, it's probably a
(25:05):
good thing.
But then you could also look atthat and say, in some
situations it's still a reallybad thing, right.
So to me, if you don't have amoral code underlying it, that
is, a moral code that's agreedon by other people, right, like
it's, it's, it's an agreed onmoral code of the society.
You know that.
Then you're in, you're in arough position, but then you
could also look at it And yougave the example of.
(25:26):
We were talking about Augustusearlier.
I don't remember if you wererecording or not.
Yet You said oh, you know,maybe maybe Joseph Goebbels was
looking at what Augustus wasdoing in terms of the how he's
using propaganda.
Well, the accepted moral codein Germany in the in the 30s and
40s was probably not a verygood thing to be a part of.
So it is.
It is a really difficult thing.
You have to look at.
You know, how does this?
(25:47):
it often comes from a religiousviewpoint, i feel like, because
you have to feel like that thisaffects more than just me and
there is a higher power than me.
It doesn't mean you have to,you know, be a Christian or be a
Jew or be whatever it is.
We have to think there's ahigher power and there's some
sort of morality involved inthis.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And that seems to be one of the core issues that you
run across in a lot of arenas isthe assertion by some that
there is no such thing as ahigher power, there is no such
thing as a true moral cord.
What is right for me may bewrong for you, and we both are
right in choosing those pointsof reference.
That, to me, is a struggle.
(26:23):
That, to me, is that's one ofthe most difficult conversations
for me to have with someonethat is of that viewpoint,
because my basis of it all is,you know, it takes as much faith
.
So let's talk about faith forjust a moment, because it takes
as much faith, if not more faith, for you to believe that then
really it does for me to havethe faith that I because I can
(26:43):
look around at the world and seeflowers and see all the
wonderful creationary thingsthat are here, and think to
myself it's ridiculous in mymind to think of that not being
an intelligent design in someway, and yet that's what Thomas
Aquinas talked about.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like, thomas Aquinas has what's called the 12 proofs
of the existence of God And ifyou look at the fact that
physical, the physical worldexists and there's order to it,
is a big.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
it doesn't just happen, man like it can't be an
accident Like there has to bemore to it.
Well, there has to be a certainamount of, i think, in that
frame of reference, to use atitle of a show that I think
someone does.
Anyways, the frame of reference, i think, has to be pretty
fractured to even get to a placewhere you just don't see any,
(27:31):
anything of order in the worldaround us.
Granted, there's a lot of chaosI wouldn't argue with anyone
that there isn't but to not beable to focus on some order,
some, as you say, moral codethat makes sense for the
greatest number of people,that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It's tough, though, because that could be such a
gray area though too, because italso like I think, frankly, up
to this point in America we'vedone a pretty darn good job in
comparing to past civilizationsand things like that.
But at the same time, you cango to different countries or
different eras in history andyou can look at the moral code
of that time and you're kind oflike yikes, That's very
different than what I have.
So I think having a moral codeas part of it, but also having
(28:14):
some sort of a higher power, isimportant.
But also, you have to look atwhat percentage of people is
this good for?
And if it's, you're still onlyon 50-50, i don't think that's
good enough, man.
It needs to be significantlybetter than that.
And that is the really, reallytough thing, because you look at
what happened in Rwanda, or theRwandan genocide You have the
(28:35):
Hutus and the Tutsis, and youhad one part of the society was
bigger than the other.
So does that make what theywere doing moral and right?
No, it doesn't.
And I think that's where it'sreally difficult to define.
Well, how do you handle thosegray areas?
Because you can't have it.
It's accepted by everybody orit's accepted by nobody, because
there's going to be times whereit's like well, that's a really
(28:56):
bad thing And it's for a smallgroup of people right Like it's
such a moral dilemma, i guess.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, no, and you think about it too.
we're not used to the minorityruling.
We're not used to the minorityhaving something that the
majority does need to listen to.
So authoritarian government'softentimes come into play on
that sort of thing becausethey're going to say, well, no,
you have to do this.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
And then I just think it's hard to take spirituality
out of it, because I think whenyou look at that, I feel like
that's what at least makes itbetter.
Do you know what I mean?
I don't know if I'm 100% rightabout that, but I think having a
spiritual element is what makesit better.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Right?
Well, i don't think moral codesexist without personally.
I don't think they existwithout some understanding that
there is some higherunderstanding to this than I'm
capable of.
And when you get it, i find itwith art.
There are those things aboutart, about great music, about
great literature, that unify us.
(29:50):
They bring us together, and ifthere's another reason why
mainstream media is failing,it's because it's lost its
ability and its desire to unify.
they just want to get theminute by minutes and get those
as high as possible, and you'recatering.
I don't care which side you'reFox News or CNN, you're catering
(30:13):
to your sponsorship.
Yes, You kind of have to,because otherwise you're not
going to pay your newscasters'salaries and everything else.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Which, by the way, I know some of those guys make $30
million and $50 million just tosit and read a teleprompter.
Isn't that wild?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, When you think about it and then think of all
the people that get it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
They don't even write it, they have writers.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Exactly.
I mean, they just sit down andsay it because you're who you
are.
It's phenomenal to me.
So what about education?
How does education play intoall this?
I mean, are there, when youlook back at your schooling,
having gone to Oxford, havinggone to when you did your
graduate work, what was that at?
(30:56):
I forget what school you wereat for St.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Hall University, st Hall University.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, there you go.
Did you find in thoseenvironments that that prepared
you for the kind of thing thatyou're providing for people now?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, what's difficult is, I look at it and I
find that the mental work of itwas really good right, Because
you're learning kind of the artof thinking, if that makes sense
, and the art of study and theart of looking at things.
And this is coming from aviewpoint of I don't have the
same education a lot of otherpeople have.
I studied the classics andrhetoric and things like that
(31:29):
and logic.
Most people aren't studyingthose things.
For me there's value.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
There are some people that don't even know what they
are.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Right, but I'm saying there's so much value in a
classical education You get whatI'm saying Like in having that
information and having thoseviewpoints.
I use that each and every day,but that doesn't mean it was
going to help me to go get somesort of a job when I got out.
And I think one of the thingsthat's drastic and missing is
number one, just like how oureducation system is set up.
Our education system currentlyis run on the Austro-Hungarian
(32:00):
model And that model during theAustro-Hungarian Empire was
meant to turn out soldiers andtradesmen, most of which, unless
we have a standing military, wedon't really have any more.
So I think when you look at it,it doesn't serve a purpose to
somebody like starting abusiness or having an idea or
implementing it or building askill set.
(32:22):
I think that we should befocusing more on classical
education earlier, right, likethe grammar school, middle
school type area, and then weshould be looking at some sort
of like apprenticeship typeprogram.
You know, maybe you work in atrade for a bit or you work in a
tie area for a bit And then youfrom there would go to college
if you really need to, right,like if you're a doctor.
(32:43):
Do not cut me open unless yougot the right degrees, man,
because we're going to have someproblems.
But like or a lawyer orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
But I really feel deep inside.
I'm a doctor, I just I feel it.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
So you're a doctor doesn't mean you can cut me open
.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I have three participation awards for being
in surgical, you know, arenas.
That makes me right.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
But do you get what I'm saying?
Like I feel like we've, we've,we're not preparing our kids to
be able to do something Andwe're just telling them like, oh
, you have this degree, you know, go get a job in women's
studies or something, right, butwho's hiring for that?
Right?
Like I have a master's degreein history.
Like we was, i got to go workat a museum.
Like what was I going to dowith that?
Like I think what we really haveto take a look at is things
(33:25):
that prepare kids for life butalso give them the right type of
education and thought process.
And there is no bettereducation than the classics And
I'm talking about, you know,herodotus, the Roman and Greek
history and things like thatAmerican history.
Those things are really, reallyimportant.
Language skills, but I thinkyou only need so much of them,
(33:45):
right?
You don't need eight years andother four years and then
another four years, becausecollege to me is really just
become like a second part ofhigh school, right?
So like we're just kind ofrevisiting high school.
Now everybody's got a collegedegree.
So if you really want toseparate yourself, you need an
MA or a PhD, and it's like Ijust don't see the value in it
where I think if you had somesort of an apprenticeship, you
(34:07):
know you have an applicableskill, you know if you like
something or don't likesomething, and if you don't go
to college you can just go do atrade.
You know what I mean.
Like I think that it just needsto change drastically And I'm
just not super happy with thesystem we have.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I have a professor years ago that had said college
is where you go to learn whatyou want to know, and graduate
school is where you go torealize how much there is to
know.
So, that that's carried me along way in understanding how
the educational system works.
My daughter is studyingmulticultural studies and
(34:45):
interracial studies and gettingher master's degree and finds
too that you talk about theAustro-Hungarian model, that at
least in Wisconsin there's alsoan agrarian model, or, you know,
emphasis to it That is whitemale oriented And that part of
it is where she's really seeingthe systematic issues that need
(35:05):
to be confronted and reallydealt with in a way that you
know maybe makes white people inFlorida uncomfortable, you know
.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Well, i think part of it is too like we've tried to,
and I don't know how you do thisat scale, but like I think the
best education is individualized.
Do you know what I mean?
And I think, if we can figureout how to, like, i've been in
some great programs where theygive you a course book, somebody
walks around and helps eachperson with their course book
and answers their questions whenneeded, like, and I think
people can get a lot out ofhaving more individualized
(35:36):
education.
I just think, because here'swhat you have to look at, right,
like we I'm in New Jersey,right, the north part of New
Jersey is very agrarian.
The central part of New Jerseyis very, very city like, and you
know it's, you know they'redifferent, more racist than
there are in northern New Jersey.
And then you go to southern NewJersey and there's nobody there
, so, like, except except thebeach for the summer, okay, but
(35:58):
like, so like how people learnand what they learn and the
methods and what they learn andthings is so different.
Right, and I think to say like,okay, so this model works in
northern New Jersey, it's goingto work in central and southern,
or this model works in NewJersey, let's stick it in
Wisconsin, right, and that's whyI think the thing that's tough
is like I think even having likea like a national strategy for
education can be tough, becauseeven states are different,
(36:21):
within states are different, ithink communities are different.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Communities are different.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Communities are different, i think I think we do
have to have some standards,right, because people should be
able to, like, all speak Englishtogether.
That's pretty important and,you know, use the same math.
But I think, at the same time,communities are so different.
Our problem is much bigger thanwe think.
You get what I'm saying.
Yeah, our problem is muchbigger than what we think it is.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, well, and when you can't even have a decent
conversation with someonewithout it turning into an
argument My son has noted to methat you know It's interesting
to him to have conversationswith people and they get to a
point where they have notthought it through well enough
to Say the things that they'rearguing and they don't.
They are really not even sure,i think, that they they believe
(37:05):
They've just identified withsomething and are so down that
rabbit hole that they can't comeout anymore.
But they'll just get to a pointwhere, like oh, f you man, f
you so is like that That's whenyou know you won the argument.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
By the way, when the other person yells, swear as you
cause you a name, you know youwon.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
It's like they can't do anything more except f you
and get out of it, right.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So my favorite, my favorite meme is I saw this,
this meme, and it was like oneof the guys in the TV show
Yellowstone and the meme was.
I Know I was lose.
I know I lost the argument tenminutes ago.
Now I'm just trying to piss youoff.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, that seems to be the main thing going on with
a lot of our politicians today.
Right, it's just.
I'm just gonna, you know we'llfind the thing, the trigger
thing that's gonna make you gonuts, and then I'll watch you
disintegrate.
You know it's like a businesstechnique or strategy, almost.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, i don't understand it, man, when it's
like there's, when you look atit like I don't care what side
of the fence you're on.
Iron should sharpen iron, right.
Like we should have good ideasthat make somebody else's ideas
have to be better, and the bestidea should win because it's
better.
And I think we've just gottento a point where it's like
you're a liberal or you're aRepublican, well, you're this,
(38:13):
so you're that, are you?
and it's like guys like come on, is this third grade?
like what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Right, right, i mean, you sit back and say that is
not what defines me.
You know, i think another thingI read in your materials too,
is that that idea of I don'tknow what I am really.
You know, i mean, i think youand I share that too, that on a
financial side, or the thefiscal side, i'm very
conservative, but on virtuallyevery other issue I'm very
(38:40):
socially, educationally,artistic.
You know, i think there are somany things in that realm that
will make us a better society.
And so then the big problem Ihave is okay, well, how do we
pay for it and who's paying forit, and how do we?
you know, how do we get there?
And it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I'm politically homeless man.
I'm politically.
Look at it, i'm.
I'm fiscally very conservative.
Yeah but I'm I'm extremelyliberal socially.
Like, yeah, like you know whatI mean.
Like, right, many of my friendsare our would consider
themselves pro-life, but I'mpro-choice within reason right,
i think it should be safe, safe,legal and rare, but like at the
same time other people likethat's crazy And I'm like
(39:17):
socially I'm I'm pretty, i'mpretty liberal right and you
know You get into any of thosearguments too and it's like,
well, what?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
what is the alternative?
when you say you can't, we knowthat that doesn't work, right,
it just it doesn't work.
So what do you do then?
You know, it's like you'reassuming that people are all
gonna believe what you believeand just get in line.
It's like, no, no, that doesn't.
On a human level, that doesn'twork.
Come on, what about?
I'm gonna run out of time.
(39:43):
Looking at this is already tenminutes before you.
Well, maybe we can find a timeto come back around to.
That would be great.
So I've already done that witha couple of the guests you sent
my way, so you would not be thefirst one to do that.
So, but let's talk a little bitabout leadership, because
you're leading people.
You're trying to lead people toa better place, right?
I mean, we're going into a formand, hey, i absolutely agree
(40:06):
with you.
The podcast format has alloweda a generational, you know, a
tectonic shift in how peoplehave conversations, because it's
demonstrating Goodconversations, i hope.
You know, in most cases unlessthey're, you know, pundits that
are just arguing a point of viewAnd that's all they're doing.
But when you've interviewedsome of the people, you have
(40:29):
some high-powered people arethere.
I think there are principles ofleadership that you've alluded
to that you found what.
What does that look like forsomeone?
I want to know what a goodleader is and stops following
the ones that are bad leadersbut just have big mouths well
there's.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
So I had an interview with David Petraeus, who was a
four-star general led centralcommand for a while.
Then he was the CIA directorfor for a bit, and One of the
things that he said he wastalking about gosh, when he was
just a just a new officer, his,his, his kind of higher higher
(41:05):
officer at that time.
I don't remember his rank, buthe was saying that the thing
that was really interestingabout him Is when you're in the
military, like typically, yourego is bigger than the number of
metals in your chest, whichmost of them don't have a chest
big enough to pin all the metalsthey have on.
Yeah, and he said the thingthat was really cool about this
guy His name was Jack and Idon't remember his last name, so
I apologize, general Petraeus,that I'm forgetting, but he said
(41:25):
the thing that was really coolabout him is He had no ego for
the entire chest of metals Heshould have had, even where most
of his metals at the time,because he thought it was kind
of like ridiculous to show off.
And he said that because heapproached these situations
where it wasn't like look at me,i'm the leader, look how
important I am, people were morewilling to follow him.
When he demanded something,like if he wanted a drink, he
(41:46):
wouldn't say, hey, officer, comeover here and get me a drink,
you get himself a drink.
Or you know He wanted acigarette, he'd get himself a
cigarette.
And I think, when you're lookingat leadership, people want to
follow somebody that'll workjust as hard as them and will.
You know It's it's from thebook art of war like people will
follow somebody That will, thatwill work just as hard as they
will, and not ask them to doanything They wouldn't be
(42:06):
willing to do themselves.
Sure, and I think to me that'swhat it really comes down to and
that's what good leadership is.
It's not like you know I'm theleader, follow me.
It's.
You know we're gonna do this,you know I will go through it
with you And you know I willtake as much responsibility as I
can because I am responsiblefor this group.
But to me that's what a reallygood leader is, and that was one
(42:26):
of the things I learned fromgeneral Petraeus.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So do you?
when you're being the head ofan organization like you are, do
you find yourself Wanting tosurround yourself with other
leaders or just better followers?
I mean, do you want people thatare going head-to-head with you
and budding you about betterideas, or would you rather have
people that like okay, chief,here I go, i'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
so Early on, i wanted followers and I found that
didn't.
It doesn't work and it doesn'tbuild an organization.
So what I ended up doing isfinding people that You know,
frankly, should be runninganother company.
You know what I mean like, andpeople having people like that
in your business Will help youbuild an amazing business.
Now the thing you have to do iscontinue to create
opportunities for them andcontinue give them opportunities
(43:08):
to grow and to do other things.
So they're gonna leave you,true, but like to me that you're
gonna build the bestorganization with people That
are gonna kind of make you belike man.
I'm glad they're on my team.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You know what I mean, like having people like that on
your team.
Yeah, well, i think of I thinkit's uh Lenshione.
Patrick Lenshione talks abouthaving people that you have that
sort of uh, you knowconversation.
You get all the good ideas, allthe best ideas out on the table
and then, at the point whereyou have to make a decision to
move forward, that there'ssomebody that says folks, i hear
(43:39):
everything that people aresaying there's such wonderful
ideas, such, you know, greatactivities.
Some of you are not going toagree with the decision that I'm
going to make, but somebody'sgot to make the decision, so I'm
, i'm going to have to do that.
I hope you'll trust me and comealong, you know, as we try this
as a potential solution to theissue.
Right, yeah, so do you findthat there are certain kinds of
(44:00):
people you can't work with, thatyou can't lead, and what does
that look like?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
To me.
I really struggle with peoplethat want other people to feel
sorry for them and it's apersonality type man like I've
you.
It's hard to inspire peoplelike that, it's hard to push
people like that because they'llcrack.
Um, like I, just I've foundthat I'm somebody that I'm
intense, i ask a lot, i demand alot, but I'm also going to give
a lot, and it's it's hard to tome to to lead people that are
(44:29):
kind of like a, a wet blanket,if that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, man, i think onlyonly Linus can lead those people
.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Well, again, mark Twain right.
He says the weakest of all weakthings is a virtue that's not
been tested by fire and thatthat always struck me as the
issue with.
You know, i come from aJudeo-Christian background as
well, and Christians andchurches that I had been a part
of that would face some horriblesituation.
You know a child died or or youknow a whole bunch of
(44:59):
calamities happen in their youknow just economic situation and
they the ones that had beenthrough adversity.
You know they.
They said, okay, well, this hashappened, i gotta figure out
how do we get by it.
We're gonna keep on working andget past it.
And the people that had neverfaced that were just stuck going
.
Why, why did this happen to me?
I don't understand.
(45:19):
A loving God would do this tome, and I think you know God's a
whole lot more interested inyour character than he is in
your circumstance.
So, yes, do you find there werecircumstances in your life that
I mean you?
you went through some hardship.
You had some times in your lifewhere tried things that failed
miserably and then tried anotherthing and it failed miserably.
What kept you?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
going well.
I think that the big thing isrealizing because you have to go
back thing.
A lot of people look at thisand it's like that, that scene
in Caddyshack where it's rainingand the the priest puts his up,
his golf club up and getsstruck by lightning after he
just curses God.
I think often we have to lookat it and say, yes, there, you
know, there is a higher powerand that higher power gives us
(46:00):
free will.
It's within, it's within ourmeans.
What do we do with that?
and I think often it's lookingat a situation saying, okay,
well, i, you know, i reallyscrewed the pooch there.
What can I do about it?
so I think that it's.
I've had some tough thingshappen, man, like I've almost
lost a parent, i got last rightsmyself.
I, you know, had some extremebusiness failures.
I've had times that I couldn'tmake payroll and I've had to
(46:22):
figure out how to pay that andthings like that.
So it's you, look at thatsituation.
You say, how can I learn fromit?
what policy can I put in place?
never do it again.
But I think often people wantto say, well, this happened to
me.
Or you know, like you know, god, let's have a mean like no man
he gives you free will.
It's your ability to make it goright, you know, or you're just
like that priest in Caddyshackget struck by lightning do you
find yourself now, given allthat, looking forward to
(46:44):
adversity, or is it just youaccept it when it happens?
um, i think when it happens youhave to look at it for the
opportunity in it, but I thinkat the same time you're a little
bit of a masochist if you wantit to happen all the time.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
You know what I mean yeah, well, you know it's weird
because when you, when youembrace adversity, you almost
feel like you should have thissense of okay, bring it.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
You know, you know, like you cannot wait till the
next nest of machine gunnershows up on my way to the
grocery store yeah, like no manlike I'm gonna embrace it when
it shows up and figure out howit can be better for me, i'm not
gonna go out there looking forit right?
Speaker 1 (47:15):
yeah, yeah, do not, you know, ask for a dude.
Yeah, i did it.
I did that early out of my life.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I thought you know okay bring it, i will take it
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
And then I'm like what was I thinking?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
so I was in my 20s and thought yeah, and then it's
like, yeah, no, you have no ideawhat you're asking for, so just
shut up, it's you, you look atit and you're like okay, so like
it's work smarter and work orwork harder, right, like you can
work smarter and work betterwithin the confines and realize
you know how can I learn fromthis?
but I don't think necessarilyalways just working hard is the
answer great folks.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
My guest today has been Jeremy Ryan Slate.
Uh, he is one of the peoplethat I love talking with.
The command your brand, yourorganization, has sent my way
because the conversationshouldn't end.
You don't want it to end, sothank you so much for being a
part of that kind ofconversation with me today.
So, jeremy, here is a podcastfrom media experts.
So if you need to, if you'vegot a podcast and you're
(48:08):
listening to this, you need totalk with the folks that command
your brand, because they do anexcellent job of of curating
interesting guests that will fityour your slate.
Sorry, couldn't resist, sorry,but thank you, jeremy, you take
care of yourself, all right hey,thank you so much for having me
man hope to talk to you againsometime and we've been talking
(48:29):
here on frame of reference, saucCounty and beyond, tuna next
week, who knows who we'll have?
that's going to be my adventurein potentially adversity and
potentially wonderment, so takecare.
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