Exploring the Stock Market with a Self-Made Trader

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What if you could master the stock market from the comfort of your dorm room? Get ready to acquire life-changing insights from Anmol Singh, a seasoned trading expert whose journey began precisely in that way. Starting as an ambitious young trader in Delhi, India, Anmol fearlessly navigated the ever-changing world of the stock market to build the successful business he runs today at Live Traders.

As we explore Anmol's trading adventure, we'll also delve into his favorite things, offering an eclectic mix of insights ranging from his favorite song and Indian cuisine to his favorite piece of furniture. An interesting highlight is Anmol's application of the lessons from the childhood fable of the Tortoise and the Hare to investing in the stock market. 

Finally, we'll discuss the role of statistics, personal trading strategies, and patterns in successful trading and investing. Anmol will share the importance of compiling data points from one's own trades to identify the most effective strategies for different market scenarios. We'll also talk about the different types of trading, the importance of integrity, and the crucial understanding of the market to make informed decisions. Whether you're a seasoned investor or a budding trader, this episode is packed with knowledge, insights, and intriguing stories that can guide you on your journey. Tune in now!

Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.

Episode Transcript

Rauel LaBreche (00:04):
Welcome to Frame of Reference.
Informed, intelligentconversations about the issues
and challenges facing everyonein today's world.
In-depth interviews to help youexpand and inform your Frame of
Reference.
Now here's your host, RauellLaBreche.

Anmol Singh (00:20):
Well, welcome everyone to another episode of
Frame of Reference.
I can't believe I just stumbledon Frame of Reference the name
of my own podcast Oh my Lord, soI guess it's just because I
nervous.
Frame of Reference profiles andleadership has taken on a new
persona.
Recently, I started workingwith a company called Commander

(00:40):
Brand and they have been able tobring me some really, really
wonderful guests, and you knowthat we can talk about topics
with you know a great amount ofproficiency on the part of the
guest.
So you listeners end up gettingthe advantage of not only
hearing me and my sparklingpersonality, but you also get to

(01:01):
hear from some people thatactually know what the heck
they're talking about.
And today's guest is someonethat I'm excited to talk about
because I'm getting up in myyears, I'm in my 60s and, of
course, one of the things I'mwatching is my 401k and trying
to make sure that the stockmarket, that I'm in the right
things at this time.
So, and my guest today is anexpert in such things in the

(01:22):
stock market and what he likesto call and I would completely
agree the emotional rollercoaster which is our stock
exchange, and I'm speaking ofnone other than Anmol Singh.
Am I pronouncing that right,Anmoll?
Yeah, you got it right.
Anmol.
I have to tell you right fromthe beginning my only awareness

(01:44):
of the last name, sing, isthrough Star Trek.
I'm a big Star Trek fan, andthere's Khan Noonian Singh and I
have to tell you I hope you'renothing like him, because he's
not a good guy, especially withBenedict Cumberbatch playing at
ease.
He really put that to a newlevel.
So, but welcome.

(02:04):
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I appreciate your time.
There's and I'm just going toread a little bit of Anmol's
background is biographicalinformation.
He has an excellentunderstanding of the difference
between profit and loss, but healso knows it comes down to your
understanding of how to makelogical and fast decisions based

(02:26):
on constantly changing data.
That's where he comes in.
He was born in Delhi, india,and grew up as a patient and
persistent individual.
I love that part.
You be right away.
I'm assuming, Anmol, that yourparents were patient and
persistent people and taught youthat, or did you just come up
on it?
Naturally, you had a talent forthat.
No, I think maybe the opposite,because I saw they weren't

(02:47):
patient and you know persistence.
That made me want to be patientand persistent.
So sometimes you know what yousee growing up.
You want to do the opposite ofthat.
Yeah, yeah, it's good that yourecognize that that was a good
thing, that those are goodqualities to it in view, because
I am amazed at the number ofpeople that do not learn how to
be patient nor persistent, andif I would put those up in the

(03:10):
top tier of a list, along withhonesty and integrity, so
because they are the things thatwould get you through life.
So you went to BrunelUniversity correct in London and
became aware of your strongdetermination to be being
something great, doing somethinggreat, and that really

(03:31):
resonated with me.
You're a fairly young man,right?
I'm going to guess later 20s,early 30s, is that?
Yeah, 31.
Okay, 31.
There you go.
So you have a lot more blackhair than I do right now.
So that's where I'm coming from.
Is I kind of?
I have looked at your degree ofdark hair when I was in my 30s
too, so, but you started tradingin your dorm and saved enough

(03:55):
money to establish your ownbusiness as a successful trader.
I thought that was.
That says something about whatwe used to call moxie in the old
days, that you have that kindof determination, persistence,
because it does take a lot ofthat to start in the stock
market when you're 22.
Is that correct?

(04:15):
I started when I was 18.
Oh yeah, so by 22, you hadenough money to be able to do
the rest of the things youwanted to do.
Okay, so well, that's a prettygood litmus test of whether or
not you're going to be able tobecome that person that can
accomplish great things.
But you know, today he has acompany, a team at Live Traders

(04:35):
and he shows people how toexecute trades, how to review
different scenarios and, mostimportantly, how to control your
emotions when high stakes areon the line.
So that, to me, is anincredible mission to have,
especially the controlling youremotions, because it seems like
to me at least, the stock market.
If there's one thing that a lotof traders and a lot of
individuals are not good at, iscontrolling their emotions,

(04:59):
because it is a friend andundergraduate school years ago
that was an economics major andhe was trying to teach me, even
at that point, a little bitabout the stock market, and it
was.
I remember he pointed out veryclearly the major things that
drive the stock market are fearand greed.
So, and once you can get thatin your head so that you watch,

(05:21):
well, is this a fear drivenscenario.
Is this a greed driven scenario?
And then Warren Buffett himself, who says you know, he likes to
buy when everyone else isterrified and likes to sell when
everyone is happy and beingvery, you know, re-infested with
their money.
So, and that has certainly donea good amount of good things
for Mr Buffett, has it not?

(05:43):
So, anyways, enough talkingabout me.
As I was making you aware beforewe started on low, I like to
start with this little thingcalled favorite things.
One of these days, maybe I'll,maybe you could tell me, honey,
do you have enough money so Icould afford to pay the
copyright rates for having JulieAndrews kind of pipe in right
now when we start this portionof the show, because I can't

(06:03):
believe those royalties arecheap.
So, but, and I everyone's wantto try to sing it myself, but I
try to spare people bad withmuch as possible.
So, but here we go, somefavorite things.
Just going to say stuff.
I'm going to usually try to kindof go off the top of my head
here and come out with whateverhits me.
But so feel free, just whatevercomes out.
On all, don't be afraid, showyour real self.

(06:24):
Okay, there we go.
Favorite color Blue Good, goodQuick, what about?
Do you have a favorite piece ofclothing that you like to wear
and some people think of it as alucky piece of clothing, or
just one that you think I lookparticularly great in this,
anything like that, yeah?
Probably not a clothe, but mywatch, like I like wearing my

(06:45):
watch Really.
Yeah, do you have a series ofwatches or just one in
particular that you wear?
I have a series, but there'sthis one particular one which I
really like.
It's a Frank Muller and thatwas kind of my favorite one.
I find myself wearing that alot Okay.
I forget.
There's a movie fairly recentlyit's a Iron man movie or

(07:06):
whatnot where Tony Stark pullsout a drawer and he's got all of
these very fine watches and hepicks one out of there to wear.
So are you that person?
Are you Tony Stark?
Not as close to that, but yeah,I do have a collection of
watches that I like to rotatebetween.
I have one.
It's a Fitbit.
That's how complicated I amwith watches.

(07:27):
So how about a favorite song?
Favorite song.
Great question there's anartist that I like, Oliver
Heldins.
Okay.
Yeah, so it's more so like.
It's more so just like housemusic instrumental.
No vocals in it, but I lovethat.

(07:48):
So how do you spell her lastname, oliver?
Heldins H-E-L-D-E-N-S.
Interesting.
I like concerned little musicalart too.
I tend to listen to a lot ofclassical for that reason, and
jazz.
So I'm always kind of tickedoff when I listen to an
instrumental jazz channel andall of a sudden they have, you
know, somebody coming in andsinging with it.
I'm like I wanted instrumentaljazz.

(08:09):
What are you people doing?
Well, the voice is aninstrument too.
So how about?
Do you have a favorite story,your favorite author?
Favorite story, you know what,believe it or not the childhood
fable of the tortoise and thehare, because it's so applicable
in investing in the stockmarket.
You know everybody tries torush, try to get there faster,

(08:32):
but usually the ends up peoplein a winning are the slow and
consistent ones.
So that applies, you know, inall areas of your life as well.
So I love that.
I understand there's a reasonwhy those fables have stayed out
present, right?
You get that more and more thatthose kind of what we call
pinnacle moments or those justdefining seminal moments, are

(08:52):
really well defined in a lot ofthe children's fables in the
evening.
Yeah, that's the test of time,for sure.
Yeah, very much so how about?
do you have a favorite food thatyou like, or a comfort food
maybe?
Too much for my own comfort.
You know, like too many, thefood's one of the probably the
only guilty pleasures that Ihave right now.
But you know, believe, if I hadto pick one thing, I'd still

(09:14):
pick Indian food, maybe becauseI grew up having it, but because
it's got some variety, younever get bored.
So Indian food is still myfavorite cuisine.
Are there favorite?
Is there like a favorite dishin that palette of foods that
you really enjoy?
Or is there something that yourmom makes?
That's your dad, that'swonderful.
So the most popular one in Indiais the butter chicken.
Butter chicken, yeah, butterchicken.

(09:36):
Really good, it's like a curry.
If you have that with rice,it's perfect.
Now I'm making me hungry nowthat I talk about it.
And when you say butter, likethe butter, that you put into
this.
Yeah, butter chicken, yeah.
Okay, so I remember I had afriend years ago that was really
into curries and there was aparticular curry I think it was
Maharaja curry and if I'mremembering that correctly.

(09:58):
But there are.
I mean my understanding there'sa ton of different kinds of
curries to, are there not?
Yeah, there's the variety inIndian food, is it's, you know,
off the charts?
You never get bored so much totry out.
Are there particular ones thatgo better in butter chicken,
that bring out a flavor you wantto have come out in that?
or A lot of places have, likeyou know, very different types,

(10:19):
but it's usually it's not spicy,it's, you know, creamy, it's on
the sweeter side and you havethat were usually people have it
with, like rice mixed with riceand it's, yeah, it tastes
really good.
Might have dinner tonight, nowthat I think about it.
Got you salivating there.
Didn't feel a little bit of alittle bit of Scenarian operant

(10:39):
conditioning there.
So we say curry, and all of asudden he starts.
So I got it.
So how about do you have afavorite author at all?
Some of them that you.
You really enjoy their books ona regular basis.
Um, favorite author recentlysome of the good books that I
read are from Tim Groverrelentless and the other book he

(11:03):
came out with, call winning.
Those are really two good booksthat I like.
So, but he's only published, Ithink, two books and both of
them are really really good.
But, yeah, in terms of authors,there's all sorts of authors
you know, like in Carol Dweckmindsets really good.
Um, you know, three laws ofperformance by Steve Zaffron.
That's a really good book aswell.

(11:23):
But, yeah, favorite author,that's a hard one because
they're all really really goodin their own way.
Um, yeah, you read any fictionat all, do you?
Or is it really more designedto help bettering your skills
set?
Yeah, all of them for me, arenonfiction, either
autobiographies or personaldevelopment mindset.
Um, we are not a lot of fiction.

(11:44):
I don't think remember the lasttime I read a fiction book, to
be honest.
Yeah, I don't do a lot offiction either.
I find that you mentionedbiographies.
I really do enjoy biographies,especially the people that I've
admired.
It's always so refreshing tofind out more of the backstory
of who those people were.
Um so, and sometimes it's notthe authorized biographies where

(12:05):
you really get the goodinformation about things.
So there's people that knewthem and saw them as they were
in real life.
How about you have a favoritepiece of furniture in the house,
a place that you like there?
Um, actually my speaker.
It looks like a furniture.
Um, so the banging off somespeakers it looks like it's a
piece of art.

(12:25):
Um, but it's actually a speaker.
So you know, that's kind of thefavorite thing at any time
somebody comes in.
They're like is that really aspeaker?
It looks really cool, lookslike a piece of art.
They're always surprised tofind out when playing music on
it and it's, you know, I wouldthink high fidelity right,
Pretty high quality range of.
So is it a dual set of speakersor does it have the spirit, Not

(12:46):
just like one big round speakerwith like two wooden sticks on
it, uh, four floors.
Uh, I think the banging olivesand the one that they had a
while ago.
But yeah, it just looks.
It looks perfect.
What kind of volume are youpushing things out at?
Are you a 180 watt guy or areyou a more of a 32 watt with a

(13:07):
small, small soothing phone?
I keep it pretty mid range, Idon't.
I don't do it too loud becauseyou know you're in New York City
, you get all sorts of peopleyou might get complaining all
around.
Get up in your face.
Yeah, I try to get it as much asI can, but uh, yeah, probably
in the middle somewhere, okay,okay.
How about do you have a favoritehobby, A thing that you like to

(13:29):
do when you're not juststudying the stock market, which
I can imagine takes up a lot oftime.
So maybe hard to do a hobby.
Yeah, recently I've been intogolf a lot.
So I've been, you know,practicing, taking a lot of
lessons, and I really want toget good at it.
So I kind of got bit by thegolf bug recently.
So I've just been working at it, practicing, trying to get
better, and I play every day,every day now.

(13:51):
So right after I finish work, 5, 6pm, I'll go for play for like
an hour or so, Just practice myswings and, yeah, that's my
hobby for now.
So that's your.
That up with Indian food wouldbe your two like guilty
pleasures essentially yeah,probably not going to go well
together.
But yeah, you know.
Do you know the comedian GeorgeCarlin at all?

(14:12):
No, I don't.
George Carlin was a big comedianwhen I was growing up.
I he died, and I want to sayearly 2000s, but he was always
known for being kind of aradical.
You know you particularly likewords in the way that we use
words, and had wonderful lines,like you know, what do dogs do
when they're on vacation?
They can't lay around, that'stheir job, you know so.

(14:34):
But he used to say that hisdefinition of golf was a
perfectly good waste of a goodwalk.
So so you know, I thought whythat can't make many golfers
happy when you tell them thatjoke, george.
So, but if you look him upsometime, I think you probably
books that are enjoy language,usually enjoy George Carlin,

(14:54):
because he he's not one to pullany punches either.
I think he had the seven wordsyou can't say on television, so,
and he would go through themand just through all of them,
you know, and they were not nicewords, so you could understand
why they weren't used ontelevision.
So how about?
Last question, how about?
Is there a memory or a thingthat you can run into?

(15:16):
You know, just come across inyour life that when you come
across it, whether it's, youknow, remembering something or
seeing something that kind ofcan use that memory.
There's something that you thatwhen that happens, it brings
you back to a time or place oryou know an event that happened.
That just can kind of helpcenter you or just bring a smile

(15:36):
at your face.
You kind of make you feel likeyou know, yeah, I want to have
more times like that or I wantto be with that person, I want
to go to that place, anythinglike that.
I mean looking back, it's moreso when I used to be in India,
when I still live in Indiabecause I grew up there.
I was there till I was like 18years old.
So on my work desk, you know,like where my computer screen

(16:00):
was, I would have a vision board, you know, right up top of that
.
So my vision board back then Idon't know like, growing up as
kids you always love New York,you love the skyline, you just
love how it looks, and at thattime I'd never been, but I still
had like pictures of like NewYork City skyline, skyscrapers,
all of that right above my youknow computer desk, which wasn't
really a work desk, is more sofor gaming.

(16:21):
Back then when I was, youngerbut yeah, and then I get when I
finally moved to New York Cityand you know I got very similar,
you know, condo, to where Ilive now and what I had on my
vision board, that's that kindof took me back when I moved
here and that's what I was like,just feeling of gratitude and
feeding off, you know, gratefulto be here for the opportunity

(16:43):
that this, obviously, countryhas provided me.
And, yeah, the American dreamis actually true.
You could.
You know, it still exists.
You can make it out there fromwhich, whatever country you're
in.
So anytime I look out my windowand I see, like the beautiful
New York view.
You know, that's what everysingle time, it brings me back
to that moment where I was justcutting out pieces of paper Of
New York City, putting it on mywall, and so, yeah, I still have

(17:06):
those memories.
Those kinds of things are reallygood anchor points too, aren't
they just kind of kind of centeryou back on the things that
have been important to you sinceyour earliest memories, kind of
thing?
100%, because when I moved toNew York, my first Apartment my
view was a gas station or, likethe second one, had a train
station.
So now I mean I see the Statueof Liberty, I see the Empire

(17:28):
State, I see all of that now.
So you had 100%.
It does center, you do, but youalso know where you started
from.
So you know, keeps you humble.
That strikes me as unusual too.
I mean, I'm sure you're not theonly person, but that you had a
vision board at 18.
I was that's.
How did that come about, havinga vision board?
So most kids are thinking aboutyou know girls and you know how

(17:51):
how they're gonna get throughhigh school.
You know I'm gonna consumedwith things that are pretty,
pretty menial and comparison orpretty pedantic, I guess, so
that that's admirable to me.
Was that something your parentsinstilled in you, or you just
were always that way?
No, I think I was always thatway.
I wasn't the most popular kidin school, you know.
I didn't really the girl part,what didn't really come

(18:13):
naturally to me, you know.
So I was always just like avery introverted online kind of
kid, either playing games onlineor, you know, researching
things online, studying online.
And that's probably where itcame to me, where somewhere
might have read something.
I said you know what I'm gonna.
I'm gonna do that.
I might not be the person I amnow, but I'll work at it and
eventually I'll get there.
So I always had that, you know,growing up always been into.

(18:35):
I was always a weird one, allodd one out at that time, for
sure.
Yeah, that's Okay.
Weird people are the ones thatusually change the world.
So as far, as I'm concerned.
How did?
I'm curious, though what kindof games do you play my son's in
a gaming I, when I was a kid,your age or earlier, the big
game was pong, for gosh sakes,you know.
So we, we were at thatgeneration where we just started

(18:58):
having games available.
What?
But my son is, you know, gamerextraordinaire.
And about your age, he's 28.
So what do you have?
A favorite game you like toplay, or a range of games?
Yeah, I don't play as muchanymore.
There's couple games that mightplay here and there, like Call
of Duty, just the standardshooters, just to you know.
Sometimes you're stressed outof your work.
You've been working all week.
You're like all right, let metake 30 minutes out, I'll just

(19:20):
take my mind off it.
So usually it's called duty ora boxing game or UFC, those type
of stuff, and have a couple offriends that are also really
high performers.
So sometimes on a Sunday we'relike all right, let's 30 minutes
, let's just forget the world,let's play it back at it again.
We might even bet on it.
So that's, that's kind of athing now.
For me it's like every Sundayas if you guys will just link up

(19:43):
for 30 minutes or so and we'lljust kind of take our mind off
work.
That's kind of my son's a world,although I think he spends more
time.
He works in the court system,so he finds a need for escape,
isn't that even more often?
But it gives the yeah, thatidea of being able to come home
and kick some butt, you know, ina virtual Just.

(20:03):
You know some people talk aboutthat being.
You know it's why we have somuch violence.
I'm like, no, actually I thinkwe have less violence because
people are able to, you know,channel that, you know, really
Aggressive energy into somethingthat's not hurting any other
people.
So are you the?
friends that you play with?
Are they folks from back home,or are they from all over the
world, or how's that?

(20:24):
Yeah, most of them are frompeople from my home, but they
also moved over here.
Some are living in California,some are living in Florida.
I'm in New York, so that's justkind of a way for us to just,
you know, connect once a week.
Yeah, you catch.
Yeah, that's such a cool thingabout the gaming community too,
because they my normal.
My son has people he plays withthat are, you know, in Japan

(20:45):
and you know some people inEurope that he's playing with
that.
Some that he knew is foreignexchange students in years ago,
and that, to me, is a wonderfulthing, that you can maintain
those kinds of connections andhave the talking and the
conversation going on your fake.
So you know, there's a lot moreof a understanding.
Of course, there's trolls outthere too, which he tells me

(21:06):
about some of these trolls thattry to get in and they just
jerks, so that.
But that's real life, right?
So, anywho, well, thank you,thanks for your transparency on
all that.
That's fantastic.
So so here we go.
You did a great job Puttingtogether some different talking
points and, as I alluded to inthe beginning of our interview

(21:28):
today, I'm all your.
Your background is in the stockmarket.
I mean, that's, that's whereyou make your.
Your money today Is not onlybeing an advisor in that, but a
trainer in that.
How did you get in to that?
How did you become a stocktrader?
Yeah.
So I was in my dorm room, youknow, when I was 18, in college,

(21:49):
and at that time, you know, incollege they ask you okay, which
society are you gonna join?
You know, which club are yougonna join?
And we had all sorts of clubs.
We had a for every single sport.
You could imagine that would bea club, a soccer club of you
know, a basketball club.
There was an entrepreneurshipsociety.
There was also just a differentinterest that had societies.

(22:09):
And then, you know, I wanted tolearn in trading or investing.
I was like, you know, every guyI think at some level is
fascinated with the stock market.
Right, you want to know how itworks.
You had no idea.
And I looked around and therewas no such thing as like an
investment or trading society.
So I was like, well, there'sdefinitely some room for
something here.
So I asked a few other friendsthat were also interested.
We just started reading bookson this topic, or, you know,

(22:32):
watching CNBC for the first timewhere Jim Cramer is talking
about mad money, and we werekind of interested.
We're like you know what, wewant to learn more.
So we all four of us gottogether said, hey, why don't we
start something like a tradingor investment society.
So we started that and then,you know, it grew from like five
members to 10 to 20, to 30 to40, and that still exists till
date, which is the great part inthe university still continuing

(22:54):
strong.
So we formed that so we wouldmeet up once a week and just
read a book on the subject ordiscuss something, or maybe
discuss what we learned bywatching CNBC.
So that's kind of where thewheel started moving.
And then in our college, in thethird year, there comes a time
where you have to apply forInternships or jobs or things of
that nature.

(23:14):
So a lot of my friends got tonsof great jobs, tons of great
internships.
I applied everywhere, from thebest companies to the worst ones
.
I just couldn't get in anywhereand didn't get a call back,
nothing.
So that's when I was like, okay, I need to figure something out
, and I was already researching,trading and investing, so said,
let me, let me try my hand atit.
And that's kind of what led meinto this journey that I'm still

(23:36):
on today.
So do you find that you're Isthat sounds a bit?
I mean, you had a obviously areal passion for it from the
beginning.
That carried you through thosethings.
But do you find that?
Is there a kind of a standardilk or a standard type of
personality that's attracted tothat, or would you say you're
kind of more on the outside,being a little different than

(23:59):
you know folks that you run intoin your business all the time?
Yeah, I think most peopleoriginally come in for the
desire of money, businesscapitalism that's usually where
people come in.
But the people who stick aroundor last are people who have a
statistical mindset.
So it's not about the nexttrade, it's not about hitting

(24:19):
home runs and it's not aboutfinding the next big stock.
That's all speculation, right.
Good trading is actually prettyboring Just following through
on a statistically tested modelover and over again and kind of
being emotionally detached whereyou know emotionally detachment
might not help you in yourrelationships, but it helps you
a lot when it comes to makinggood decisions with trading and
investing.

(24:39):
So those are the goodpersonality types that I've
noticed that make for goodinvestors and traders.
Those who stick around arepeople who have the long term
mindset, like we were discussingearlier the tort noise and the
hair right, having that mindsetof, hey, slow, consistent gains
rather than looking for the nextbig stock because that's all
gambling.
So I'm actually, because of myage, largely been much more

(25:02):
attuned to things like that, butto that end, started
subscribing to MarketWatch andBarons and really trying to kind
of keep an eye on that, and I'malways intrigued by the experts
, you know, that come out andhave their you know bits of
what's going to happen, and Idon't believe this.
This is what, and I think youknow these experts are just so

(25:24):
full of themselves that I wonderhow they can really be an
expert in anything other thanego, which is, you know, kind of
disconcerting to me because itis, you know, money, money,
money, which I understand.
That is an end goal, but thethinking is lacking.
But one of the things that stoodout recently, norma Klyreud,
was the, the kind of a nace herewho's saying you know the end

(25:45):
is coming here, all of this bigburst, this bubble, it's going
to get popped here, and hetalked about the problem with
the algorithms, that so much ofwhat's happening in terms of his
perspective was the currentjump in things and the strong
market, in spite of what's beenbeing done by the Fed and the
like, that those algorithms are,at the end of the day, driving

(26:07):
a lot of that, and because ofthat there, you know, could just
as easily be a switch to thenegative, because the algorithms
are picking up on meetingfactors that just drive it down
without it sounds to me like awhole lot of human intervention
or, you know, being able to say,no, we got to hold on that.
Is that what you're finding?
Or are you trying to keep awayfrom using algorithmic kinds of

(26:31):
methodologies and instead tryingto keep the human element where
you?
Just you look at the statisticsand say, yeah, I'm going to go
this route.
Yeah, so we don't use like alike a software algorithm based
trading, but in a way we do haveour own algorithm, but it's
kind of in our mind, right.
So we've have a certainstrategies and certain patterns

(26:53):
and certain tactics that we knowhave a certain edge.
Just like a casino has a slightlittle edge on a blackjack or
roulette table, same way atrader would have a certain edge
, meaning I might lose half mytrades out of 10 that I take.
I might lose on half of them,but as long as the half that I'm
winning on, or winning at leasttwice as much as what I'm
losing on, then I need to beonly right 40% of the time.

(27:13):
I could lose six out of 10trades and still end up being
profitable if I just maintainthe ratio of the winners being
twice my losers.
So that's what trading really is.
It's not about winning everysingle time, it's not even about
winning half the time.
It's just about making sureyour winners are, you know, at
least twice as big as youraverage loss, and that'll ensure
you're always going to beprofitable.
So that's the model that wehave in our mind, based on

(27:35):
certain strategies, and allwe're really doing is just to do
it over and, over and overagain, and the laws of numbers
you know law of numbers willtake care of itself.
After a large enough samplesize, it'll end up being the
same thing I win half, I losehalf, but the winning half are
making twice as much as thelosing half, so there's
impossible for me not to makemoney.
Well, those statistics are socritical too.

(27:55):
I know one of the problems Ihave with, I think, our culture
in general is that we don'treally understand statistics, so
we have people throwing outstatistics that are really
meaningless because of the waythat they're deriving.
Those statistical numbers arefaulty from the get go.
You know they don't tell youthings like, well, how big was
your sampling size?

(28:16):
Or you know, how did youdetermine who got questions?
How did you determine even thatyou had the right questions,
Right, those kinds offundamental things that will
determine whether or not youhave statistics that are
something you can bank on, orare they just?
You know you might as well notbother, because all they did was
reinforce your biases.
How do you determine when astatistic is big enough, strong

(28:40):
enough, or they actually you canactionize it if you will.
Is there a process?
you both do.
Yeah, as they say, right, 79.5%of stats are made up, just like
this one.
So most of people are making upstatistics.
So what we do is we maintainspreadsheets of all of our
trades that we've taken for thelast you know, since I've been a

(29:02):
trader.
So we have a large, largeenough sample size.
So we've seen the up markets,we've seen the down markets,
we've seen how it performs whenthe markets are just going up.
We've seen how the marketsperform during a federal rate
hike.
So, because we've been doing itnow for I've been on my 13th
year then I have seen all sortsof markets.
I've seen crashes, the COVIDcrash, the comeback, so that

(29:23):
sample size is more reliable.
So that's kind of what we'relooking for.
Is the sample size needs to bea sample size.
That's been.
That's seen all differentenvironments.
It's seen the crashes, it'sseen the bull markets.
It's seen the federal ratehikes.
It's either lowered the rates.
So that's a statistic that Ican trust.
The larger the sample size andthe markets, the better it is
right.
The more data you have, thebetter it's going to be.

(29:43):
How many data points are youtrying to keep track of?
I mean, I think that's perhapsone of the daunting things for
me as I started to learn moreabout all of the things that
affect that number beyond justfed rate hikes.
Consumer price index, that youknow all the different numbers
that are out there, thevolatility index.
You know all of those thingsthat put it, get put into that

(30:04):
equation.
Are there ones that you've inthat data pool you've been able
to say you know what?
That one's not as consequentialas people really make it out to
be.
These are the whatever the fouror the 15, the 100 points that
we watched that should beincluded in that data table.
Yes, so our data point they'reall based upon our trades.
It's not based on the rate hikeor the Fed or the what the

(30:25):
company or the market's going todo.
It's all about, okay, the last500 trades that I took based on
this specific pattern.
Right, and yeah, there'sdifferent patterns and
strategies that we have.
So we only look at our owntrades, the entries, the exits,
the stop losses, where we gotout, why did we get out?
You know the time of the day wegot out, at the day of the week
we traded it.

(30:45):
So we're tracking all of thatand then that gives us all the
information we need to, you know, extrapolate from it what we
might expect going forward.
So we can see hey, thisstrategy for some reason works
the best between you know 930 amtill 1130 am and work as much
later in the day.
If it's a day trading strategy,then at that point I'm going to

(31:07):
try to focus on that first twohours where the strategies
proven to work.
So we're only looking atstatistics from our own trades.
So your trends are reallypersonalized to your personal
experience ultimately, right,right?
So that's fascinating, becauseyou're basically disregarding
the rest of the world andassuming that the rest of the
world is only relevant to yourworld, right?

(31:31):
Yeah, because the trades thatI'm taking, they're already in a
way factoring in all thoseother things.
So I need to only judge myselfbased on my trades, because
that's the only thing I actuallyhave control over.
I don't have control over whatthe Fed is going to do.
I don't have control over whatthe economy is going to do, but
what I do have control over isif I execute my trades correctly
, then can I maintain the ratiothat it's been proven to

(31:53):
generate over the last like 5,10 years, sure.
Yeah, right, I'm thinking backto my statistics.
Back now there was the PearsonCorrelational Coefficient and we
looked at that to be able tosay, well, can I say that this
event causes this and to whatdegree?
Can I say that was a causalrelationship and that you know,

(32:14):
obviously the higher that number, the more you could say, yeah,
that seems to be a direct cause.
So that correlation coefficientmust be a part of your
algorithm to be able to say,well, there is a strong
correlation here between thetime of the day and these
particular types of transactions.
Is that a fair assessment?

(32:34):
Yeah, totally, and we have.
When we maintain thespreadsheets that spreadsheets
in our report section itcalculates automatically okay,
which is the stock that you seemto be the best, on that you
have the most winning trades.
On which stock do you have themost losing trades?
On which time of the day areyou most profitable?
Which time of the day are youthe worst?
Maybe it turns out which is thecase for me, I don't know why

(32:55):
Tuesdays are not my best tradingdays, right, but Mondays and
Fridays and Thursdays, somehow Ialways seem to do well and it's
funny how it works.
But somehow the same thingholds true a week after week.
So those are the data.
Then we know okay, we got to.
You know, take a step back onthe Tuesday, be a bit more
selective going forward, andvice versa.
So we have our own personalstatistics based on just what

(33:18):
we're doing.
And it might also be you know,how much room did I give the
stock?
It might also turn out I doreally great when I trade stocks
between $100 and $200.
And I don't do that great whenI'm trading stocks that are $2
or $3.
So then we use all the data toeliminate what we're not good at
and double down on what we'regood at.
So I assume you're not doinglike index trading, you're

(33:40):
really doing specific stocksthat you're going after.
Yeah, I might trade indexes too,but they're basically, you know
, most of them are going to bestocks and it's all based on
which stock has the pattern.
So if I see the pattern on anindex like S&P 500 or NASDAQ,
I'll trade that.
If I see that pattern on anindividual stock like Tesla,
then I'll do that.
So we're looking for justspecific patterns and strategies

(34:02):
, no matter which stock it mightbe on.
You know, if stocks were people,you'd have an idea where you
could say, well, that guy is anA-hole.
I'm not trading in the A-holeright now because it's really
being an A-hole, but this guy,he's really onto something
because people like him a lot,so he's a nice guy, I'm going
for him.
So maybe we should do that.
Maybe we should give the stocksnames like Carl and Herman, or

(34:27):
Felipe or Anmol.
Of course, one of them wouldhave to be named Anmol, right?
So how do you decide?
I mean, if you're a person outthere listening to this podcast
and you're trying to figure outhow you should get into, if you
should get into the stock market, how do you decide what's right
for you, if you're long-term orshort-term?

(34:48):
Because this strikes me thatshort-term people probably
should be more aware of datapoints changing regularly
because they're in for the shortgains kind of thing, whereas a
long-term trader can be like inmy case.
I'm kind of a bit lazy on itall, because I look and do my
initial research and say, okay,well, over the long haul, how

(35:10):
have these done?
And okay, now I'm going to makethe choice, I'm going to watch
them daily just to kind of seehow things are going.
I don't want to be completelyout of tune, but I'm not going
to freak out every time theymake a 14.5 or whatever.
Is that just an emotional gutcheck you think people I need to
make, or is it?
more driven by circumstances.
Yeah, I think.
Firstly, every single personshould be involved in the stock

(35:32):
market.
Right, there are differencesSome are going to be long-term
investors, some are going to beshort-term traders, some are
going to be long-term traders.
But everybody should beinvolved in the stock market.
Because your money is not doingyou any good sitting in your
bank account, right, because oneof the other things is once
money is sitting in our bankaccount, it's not really just
sitting there, because there'salways something we'll come up
with.
Life will throw an emergency.

(35:53):
Money will find a way to leaveyour account.
You might some expense willcome up.
Money will find a way to leaveyour account, so you're never
really building wealth.
So everybody should always beinvesting, because the biggest
thing you need to know is thatthe stock market is higher than
any point in the history, right?
Sure, it was higher a fewmonths ago, but then now it's
come back up again.
So the stock market is alwayshigher than it was the last 10

(36:14):
years ago, always, every singletime.
So, despite all these punditspredicting a crash or the
economy I mean, over the yearsyou've seen so many people
predict it's the end of theworld, it's the end of the
economy and they've predictedcorrectly 53 out of the last two
crashes.
So the thing is, market'salways going to be higher than
where it is.
That's just how it works.
Every 10 years is going to behigher than what it was last 10

(36:36):
years ago.
So at an average, everybody canexpect 10 to 12% on an annual
basis by investing in the market.
So why would you not invest inthe market?
So everybody should be.
Now, majority of the people.
They should be long-terminvestors and not traders,
because trading, just likeanything else, it's a profession
, it's a business.
It requires a skill set, it's alearning curve there.

(36:58):
So not everybody's going to beable to be a trader, but
everybody can be and should bean investor.
Now, when you get into trading,there's a few different styles
of trading.
One of them is day trading,where we're getting in and out
every few minutes, every fewseconds in the same day, in and
out the same day.
And then there's swing trading,where you're holding a stock,
maybe for a few weeks, maybe fora few months, maybe for a few

(37:19):
days, but you're not getting inand out the same day.
That's called swing trading.
And then comes investing, whereyou're investing in the markets
.
You're investing in a stock.
You're not really selling,you're just continuously adding
and building your wealth.
So those are the three styles.
Now, as I said, day trading issomething that requires time.
You got to be in front of yourcomputer from 9.30 in the
morning till however long youwant to day trade, and at least

(37:41):
till 12.
So you have to have that time.
So if you have another job or abusiness that's going to take
up your time, you're not goingto be able to do that.
So that eliminates that.
That leaves you with theability to do swing trading and
investing.
Swing trading is something Ifeel everybody can do, despite
your job.
I have friends who are surgeons, they're doctors.
They still swing trade becauseit only takes a few minutes
every other week to just look atyour trades and see what

(38:04):
they're doing and monitor them,and I think swing trading is
something everybody should do.
But yeah, day trading istypically reserved for people
who really want to do this fulltime as a career.
So, on that swing training, areyou usually encouraging people
to do individual companies, orare you doing something like
Pernaces or Vanguard or thosekinds of folks where they're

(38:24):
already making the choice ofbeing in very heavy in certain
sectors technology or medical orwhatever which is better for a
swing trader?
I think both.
So swing trading is based ontechnical patterns that we're
looking at on the charts.
So as long as the chart patternis present, you trade it, no
matter if it's on a stock,doesn't matter if it's on an

(38:45):
index, doesn't matter if it's oncommodities like oil, gold or
silver.
We're looking for the specificchart patterns.
So, regardless of whether youset up, we can absolutely trade
them.
So do you find that?
I mean, there is more AI beingintroduced into the market, even
if it's just with the algorithmchecking the patterns that you

(39:05):
and I, if we had all the time inthe world on a daily basis,
couldn't check, the data pointsthat those algorithms check.
But do you see that?
Is there a point where, talkingabout chat, can you see now,
then, all of the things that aregoing out with that AI realm?
Will there come a point whereyour job will become even easier
because you can just pick a setof criteria that you would want

(39:27):
to maintain and then let thecomputer do its thing?
Is that going to happen, or isthere always going to be a need
for the new people like you?
I think there's always going tobe the human element, because
the AI, somebody has to codethat AI, right?
So the AI has to be coded by anactual human being.
Number one and number two isstock market is always dynamic.
It's changing.

(39:48):
There's always the element ofrisk management that the AI
might not be able to do.
If you have to get in or getout really fast on something or
some news hits right, all thevariables are now out of the
window because of the news.
So I think AI is never going tobe able to fully take over.
It could definitely make ourjob easier, which it has.
I have certain set of softwarethat I use that helps me manage
the trade.
So if I'm stepping away, I'mgoing to work out, I'm going to

(40:10):
play golf, I'm not on my screen,the software will manage that
trade for me and get me in andout, as I have specified it to
do.
So it could definitely makeyour job easier, but I think
it's never going to take awaythat human element because
there's so many variables in themarket, right, so many news
variables can hit a riskmanagement, money management,
account management, there's somany different things.
And plus, I think AI is nevergoing to take over the human

(40:34):
trader, because as AI gets moreand more popular, the cost of
developing AI is cheaper andcheaper.
So then everybody will developthat AI and those variables will
no longer work becauseeverybody's using it.
So I think, human element willalways exist in the stock market
.
Well, it strikes me too thathuman beings and what I know of
them through my theaterbackground, I know like is we're
just not going to let them, wejust have too much fun doing it.

(40:57):
It defines so much of who weare that at some point we're
going to say, ah yeah, I couldprobably do it, maybe even
better, but I want to do it andwe're going to maintain that
presence, maybe just because ofthat human hubris or something.
So what about?
How do you suggest to peoplethat they get off of that?

(41:19):
I love that you say it's theemotional roller coaster.
I mean I shared with you alittle bit before we started
recording how I look at thestock market sometimes and just
get so frustrated with howstupid the market is behaving
and how stupid some of the bigtraders are behaving because
they'll have a bad situation andeverything they can to make it

(41:39):
worse.
And to me it's like beingmarried to someone and you have
an argument and then in themiddle of the argument you
decide to say a bunch of jerkythings.
Well, guess what You're goingto make it worse and harder to
recover from.
So what is that?
And how do you get people tosay you know, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa.
Check your ego, check your fearat the door and let's just look

(42:01):
at the data and that's that'sin everything I mean.
I work in a retail environmentand we are constantly fighting
the deal of stop buying based onyou know, I think this will do
really well and look at the datathat indicates what really does
do well and what doesn't.
How do you advise people to getthat in check?

(42:21):
Yeah, I think the first thing isto always realize the market's
bigger than me and marketsbigger than you, markets bigger
than everybody else.
Right, market was here longbefore I was on the earth.
Market is going to be long here, long after I leave the year.
Right, market is the bigger one.
It's always going to be there.
It's always right, it is whatit is.
So markets never wrong, becauseif it was wrong, well, you can
bet against it.
Right, but you won't.

(42:42):
So the market is always right.
It's way bigger than everybodyelse and price is the only thing
that pays.
So there's people who think themarket is going to go lower,
people who think the market isgoing to go higher.
The current prices, thecombination of what everybody
else thinks, is the collectiveconsciousness.
So I think that's number onerealize that, hey, the market's
always right Now.
It might not be right in thefuture.

(43:03):
You might predict, okay, thefuture might be like this, but
at this moment it is what it is.
So I think that's the firststep.
And then number two step, as yousaid, is like not trading based
on feel, because our feel isnot grounded in reality.
It's not grounded in anything.
There's no basis for that,there's no statistics to back
that up right Now.
Unless you're a professionaltrader you've been trading for

(43:23):
10 years then yeah, your feelmatters, right, because if your
feel is basically differentthings you've learned and you've
seen in your journey, and it'sthe combination of data that's
inside, maybe you're unconsciousoff, but as a newer trader,
investor, you don't have thatdata in your mind, so you're
just speculating right now.
So I think that's one of thethings is to realize that, okay,
let's take the emotion out, andwhat am I basing my decision on

(43:46):
?
And what happened when the last100 times the same thing
happened?
What was the result of that?
So then that's the data we'relooking for.
Hey, if this pattern, the lasttime, this pattern set up on
this stock, what happened thelast 100 times?
And then, based upon that, wemight make a more educated
decision that it might happenagain.
So those are the things that wewere going to look at is the
different types of data, andthere is a learning curve to all

(44:09):
of this, but it can be learned.
So you find yourself having tocheck your own ego.
I mean, it strikes me that someof the traders and the experts
that get consulted all the timethat what I I'm always looking
for is signs of a personalarrogance where they've started
to believe that they're soinfallible that you know you're

(44:32):
just setting yourself up for.
I don't want to follow thisguy's advice right now.
I want to do exactly theopposite of what he's doing,
because you know anyone that'sthat full of themselves even if
they have reason to, becausethey have a good amount of
experience that, to me, isalways a bad sign.
And anyone that's making thesekinds of decisions or giving
this kind of advice right, yougot like that.

(44:52):
You've got that brand that youhave to protect.
I'm he's like 93.6%.
Oh well, he's.
I bright.
Hey, that still means you'rewrong some of the time.
So right, sort of like JimKramer, right?
I mean, he's on the news allthe time by by, by, sell, sell,
sell, sell.
This company's horrible likefull confidence.

(45:13):
But there's actual websitesthat track every single call
he's made and what the stock'sdone overall.
And yeah, it's a he's losingproposition is wrong 90% of the
time on the things he talksabout on the TV.
Are you kidding me 90% of thetime.
There's websites out there.
It's called the inverse Kramer.
You know inverse Kramer ETF.

(45:33):
It tracks all of the calls thatis made and see how they've
done over time and he's wrong.
But it's based super confident.
So on TV and people think hemight be right because of the
confidence.
But that's the thing.
The people who think themarkets, they have the edge on
the market, they've got a one up, they're always gonna.
You know, market will humbleyou at some point or the other.
Right, it will always humbleyou at some point or the other.

(45:54):
So nobody's bigger than themarket.
Just realize that all we'retrying to do is take a little
bit of the edge here and therein the markets, but you, nobody
can dictate to the market whatthe market's going to do.
You know there's a saying incustomer service to.
It says the customer may notalways be right, but the
customer is always the customerso right.
And it really dictates in mymind.

(46:15):
You know I've taught that topeople when they're we're trying
to teach customer serviceskills, I'm like, you know, just
lose this.
Garbage your mind that says thecustomer is always right.
Because you're going to havethose instances where you're
going to look at and say you'renot right, sir, and you're going
to want to tell them you're aboob.
You know, you're just.
I'm sorry you don't know whatthat you're talking about, but
you can't do that because of thecustomer.
And it strikes me that the wayyou're talking about the stock

(46:37):
market, it is what it is, youknow, and if we think that you
know we have the, I'm not sureif it's to say, well, I'm going
to be smarter than the stockmarket is.
You know that.
That's why it is setting you upfor a great fall at that point.
Are there traits that you lookfor, like the people that work
with you?
Are there specific traits thatyou're looking for for staff
members of colleagues that youknow you think make the

(47:00):
difference between someone whoreally is adept and good at this
versus people who are not.
Yeah, for trading.
There's certain people, likepeople who've been ex pilots or
they've been ex poker players.
They make for really goodtraders.
And the reason for that is verysimple because you know pilots,
they're so used to following achecklist.
Doesn't matter if they've flownthe plane a thousand times,

(47:21):
they leave their ego out of thedoor.
They go through the checklist,no matter how many years they've
been flying the plane.
Right, they might be a veteranat it or they still go through
the checklist.
So that's a good habit to havein trading.
We have a trading checklist.
It's called a pre tradechecklist.
Hey, check, did you check themarket direction?
Did you check the trend?
Did you check the spread of thestock?
Did you check the liquidity?
Can you get in and out?
Check, check, check.

(47:42):
Follow the process recipe for agood trade.
So pilots make for good ones,whereas people who are, let's
say, ex CEOs of companies maybethey've come out to trading the
markets now they got this egobecause they've been really
successful in their businessbefore they think they got a one
up, you know, one leg up overall the other people.
And those are the people whoend up not getting it right
Because they have an ego,whereas pilots, they're just so

(48:03):
used to doing the checklist.
And same for poker players.
Right, they know when to holdit, they know when to fold it.
It's not a good trade.
Take a small loss, get out,don't let it turn into a huge
loss.
And that's a key, you know, keydifference maker on just
learning to take small lossesand being okay with it.
Part of the game, right, justget used to taking a bunch of
small losses and make sure yourwinners are bigger.

(48:23):
So those poker players expilots usually make for really,
really good traders.
Doesn't mean that other peoplewon't, it's just that they are
used to that, have a goodcharacteristic that others will
still have to develop and workat.
Sounds like gamblers in generalmight be a really, really
successful gamblers, and maybeastronauts.
Maybe you should explore thewhole field of retired

(48:45):
astronauts and see if those guyshave more check looks than
chickens have feathers, I swearto God.
So how about you know?
You had one talking point herethat really, really strikes me,
because I think it is somethingsadly lacking in a lot of our
society, not to mention ourpoliticians, which is another

(49:06):
whole topic altogether.
But you talk about becoming aperson of integrity and how to
holding yourself to your wordimpacts all those areas of your
life, including trading.
I'm going to take a guess herethat your dad is probably a
pretty good man of integrity,because it strikes me that

(49:26):
people don't learn that unlessthey learn it from an early age,
and I have yet to meet someonewho has a lot of integrity that
didn't need least have a mom ordad that were people of
integrity.
So did that?
Is that a correct assessment?
Am I, am I?
No, I think.
I think for me, integrity is,you know, like doing what you

(49:48):
said you're going to do and thendoing it.
When you said you're going todo it, and then also, when you
noticed that there was a, youknow, breaking integrity in your
life, where you said somethingand you didn't do it, then
taking corrective action toensure it doesn't happen again,
rather than what most people do,which is, oh, I'm sorry, I
apologize, and guess what.
They do it again, right, ratherthan putting things in place to

(50:08):
ensure it doesn't happen again.
And that's integrity is, youknow, sticking to your word and
really paying close attention toevery single thing that comes
out of our mouth, like we shouldreally believe it or don't say
it.
You know, and a lot of people Imeet to say you know what?
I'm?
A person of integrity.
I don't have a lack of integrity, really, like when's the last
time somebody called you and hesaid, hey, I'm in just the

(50:30):
middle of something, let me callyou back?
And he never did.
Or you ran into an old friend.
You're like, hey, good to seeyou, buddy, we should totally
catch up.
And they've never made anyeffort to follow up with them.
To catch up again Right, thoseare all little things that we
might not even notice, but thosethings create lack of integrity
in your life and then yourbrain starts saying, hey, if he
doesn't believe in his own word,why should I right?
So your brain goes against youand that builds low self-esteem

(50:52):
and that leads to a perpetualcycle of low self-confidence,
low self-esteem and, you know,vicious cycle of you not doing
things and then you're feelingbad about not doing it.
So I think, really, payingattention to the words that come
out of your mouth, you shouldreally mean it.
What strikes?
me too, that there's a level ofaccountability there that people
don't own up to things.
Because if you're havingabsolutely agree with you that

(51:14):
the idea of you know acceptingyour yes should be your yes, I
know it should be a no, you knowthat you you make an accurate
assessment and have a commitmentto yeah, I'm going to do this
thing, or have a commitment tosay I would like to be able to
tell you I can do that, but Ijust know my schedule or
whatever, or I don't have askill set to do it, being humble
enough to admit that.
But then the other part of itfor me is the person that has an

(51:36):
integrity to can own theirmistakes, can own their failures
.
So instead of saying oh, yeah,I didn't get that done, saying
no, I said I was going to dothat and I didn't do it.
I'm not only sorry, but I'mgoing to go get it done right
now.
Or, you know, I let other thingsget in the way of that I found
with my wife, you know, after 37years, and finally learning to

(51:57):
say you know what I'm going totake and put my big boy pants on
and take the, the, the troublethat comes with, or the, you
know the, the failure, and justyou know, grab it by the horns
instead of trying to make up anexcuse for why I didn't get it
done.
Just admit that I didn't get itdone and you know what am I
going to do to get it right.
Right, I mean, you find thatwhen you you interact with

(52:21):
people on that level and say,hey, I, you know, I understand,
but I need you to be accountablefor what kind of?
Is that a trait that's lacking,you think, in the stock market
and traders, or or not?
Yeah, because you know a lot ofpeople, as you were saying, they
try to justify why they didn'tdo something right.
That's, that's always the case.
They always try to justify whythey didn't do it rather than

(52:42):
saying, Okay, like I own up toit.
This is how I'm going to fix it.
Now I'm going to takecorrective action Because
results just are.
They don't have to be explained.
If you got the results, youdon't have to explain it.
They just are what they are.
The only time we have toexplain something is when we
didn't do it Right, and that'sthe only time we have to come up
with an excuses.
So you know, the results don'tequal no result plus a good

(53:03):
story.
Right, results just are.
So I think we're trading withyou that all the time, where the
traders will have a tradingplan which tells them Okay,
here's where I'm going to getout of the stock when I'm right,
here's what I'm going to getout.
If I'm wrong, I'm going to takemy loss and then the stocks
going down.
They should be getting out, butthey keep holding.
Maybe it'll come back up, youknow, maybe I'll buy more, maybe
it'll come back up, but that'snow we're entering the territory

(53:26):
of gambling.
Maybe, maybe it'll come back up, maybe it won't.
Like you want to live your lifeon Mabies.
That's not a predictable way ofmaking a living right On Mabies
.
So I think that's where traderscome in and they mess it up is
why listening to their you know,I guess emotions, and even if
the stock has done exactly whatthey thought they would, this is
where they should be gettingout and taking a profit.

(53:46):
And then greed takes over.
Maybe it'll go higher, I'lljust keep holding, and then it
comes right back down.
They missed that opportunity toget out.
So I think following through atrading plan and sticking to it
is, I think, the number onecharacteristic that good traders
need to have, and that's whereintegrity really comes in, is it
?
a I think you even look at thisthat you know, determining

(54:10):
whether or not you're a shortterm or a long term trader.
It's always I mean everyadvisor that I trust you know,
the Warren Buffets of the worldthat really just take a view of.
You have to be in it for thelong haul.
You have to be willing to justlet the market do its ups and
downs and not freak out everytime it does something wrong.
Is that a philosophy that onlypeople with, I guess, with

(54:36):
enough room to absorb thoselosses when they have to absorb
them and enough resources to beable to then tap into and buy
things when they are way down?
When I've done that I mean it'sdone been with indexes, you know
I looked at small cap companiesthat were out there and indexes
like Vanguard, small cap, youknow, value funds and said, okay

(54:59):
, well, these are things thattraditionally in the three to
five year plan, have done thislevel of profit.
They really suck.
Right now this is a great timeto buy, you know, good chunk of
that and, sure enough, now youknow small cap had been
neglected for a while and haspicked up.
Is that the kind of thing thatyou should be doing and not not
sitting there on it when itstarts to take a you know a dive

(55:19):
again, or is that the time toit starts to take a dive?
Okay, well, I'll buy more of it, because it does have that
three to five cycle that it'llultimately will end up in a
better place down the road,which is which do you think
makes more sense?
Is it an emotional call again?
Who are you?
Do you freak out or do?
you not?
No, I think most investorsshouldn't even like.

(55:41):
If you're an investor, ifyou're not a professional who
does this for a living, youshouldn't even try to time the
market or get out or get in ordo any of that stuff.
You should just write it,because the stock market only
can do three things it caneither go up, down or sideways.
Once you get into, you knowfull, come into terms with
that's the only thing that canhappen.
If they could go up or down orsideways, then you know okay, if
it's going down now, fine, nextone, it'll go right back up

(56:03):
again, right?
Because the only thing you needto know as an investor stock
market will always higher thanit was 10 years ago, always,
every single time.
So if you keep that in mind,all you got to get good at is
just writing those downturnsright and creating a strategy
where you're averaging or you'readding every single month.
So something that I do is Ilet's say I trade for an income.
That's what I used to pay mybills off and live off and do my

(56:25):
thing.
But then I take a percentage ofmy profits and I automatically
put it in the stock market.
Don't even look at it, don'ttry to get in or get out or any
of that.
Just 10% of my incomeautomatically goes in there gets
invested.
So one month the stock marketcould be down, right.
And guess what will happen?
If the stock market is downthat month May month I'm buying
a little bit more.
Next month's stock market mightbe going up.

(56:46):
I'm still buying a little bitmore, so I'll have an average
cost basis.
So I think that's kind of whatwe're looking at.
Most investors shouldn't evenbe looking at timing it.
You know period.
They should just keep writingit and averaging in or out.
Is there a?
number that you would say topeople if they're looking at
things that they should behitting for and accept as kind
of the way it is.
I've heard you know 6% to 9% iskind of a working rate that if

(57:09):
you look at something over alonger haul, that if you're
doing 6% to 9% you're doingpretty good, it's not bad.
And then there are people thatsay, oh, I do spend 20% on a
regular basis and that's why I'man expert, and that always
seems a little bit to me likeyeah, what years are you looking
?
At.
So I mean, certainly the stockmarket can do that, but to have

(57:29):
all of the right things at theright time, to be able to do
that regularly, seems like me Idon't know what's your
experience with that.
Is a 3 to 6 or a 6 to 9, isthat something that should be a
warning indicator if you'regetting below a certain number?
Get above a certain number.
Nothing Historically.
If you just stay invested in along enough time frame let's say

(57:50):
, if you have a five-10-yeartime horizon then you don't need
to worry about any of thosethings because you will get
again and again roughly 10%average over a 10-year period.
Right, and that's proven allthe way back since the 1700s,
1800s, whatever the stock marketis with an existence.
So I think you just have to getgood at holding on and having a
strategy where you can put inmore money every month or every

(58:12):
two months into the markets andnot be concerned about the
downsides.
So I think that will kind of bethe best way to do it.
And the other thing is, ifyou're a trader, then it's
different.
Traders can time in and out.
Sometimes I might decide, okay,I'm going to get out, and then
when the market goes down enoughtypically 30%, 35% it's always
historically been a good spot tobuy because the market always

(58:34):
ends up recovering and we sawthat just last year In October
the market stopped 35% and nowwe're already back to where we
came down from.
So 30% 35% is a good spot tosay okay, let's start buying.
Okay, are you?
So you're an investor.
I mean, it's your full-time job, you're consulting with other
people and you have a firm thatdoes that.
If you were, if you're a personlooking for a good investor,

(58:58):
what are the qualities you wouldlook for to help somebody that
has some, you know, wants to getinto it, but just doesn't have
the full time they would like tohave?
Somebody like yourself Arethere qualities you think people
should be looking at in aninterview process that would be
good warning indicators to you,or good hopeful indicators?
You mean looking for goodinvestors.

(59:20):
Yeah Well, looking for somebodyto advise you on that process.
You know somebody that's goingto actually hand you.
You're going to say I got$5,000.
Invest this for me, please anddo as good as you can with it.
Yeah, I will say don't trustanybody with your money, right?
Nobody at all, because nobodycares about your money more than
you do.
And even if they're making ahuge commission on it.

(59:41):
Yeah, 90% of the hedge fundsunderperform the market, meaning
if you just bought the stockmarket, you'd be better off than
90% of the hedge funds that arecharging fees and commissions.
So you don't need to trustanybody or you need to go to
anybody investor.
These days it's so easy Justopen up a brokerage account,
just buy the S&P 500, just buythe NASDAQ.
Don't even try to pickindividual stocks, right?

(01:00:03):
Or if you're going to pickindividual stocks, then go with
the well-known names Apple,microsoft, google, amazon, right
the big companies and justautomatically every single month
.
Just keep putting money in andguess what you are going to do
better than 90% of the so-calledexperts out there just by doing
this.
So I think that's what 90% ofthe people should be doing and
the other 10% who want to learnand actually become good traders

(01:00:25):
.
Then you can learn a little bitstrategies to optimize your
returns.
But I don't believe in trustinghedge funds or any of those
people.
Well, I'll confess I did go outand buy.
Once I hit like 62, I went outand bought investing for dummies
and I can tell you thatinvesting for dummies has been
an invaluable resource for me.
If for nothing else, it taughtme some of the things to watch

(01:00:49):
and explain some of the concepts, so that I felt like I have a
reasonable layman'sunderstanding of stuff.
So I've got a passion for this.
I've identified myself as beinga person that really digs this
whole thing.
How do you build on skillsinstead of just that sense of?
Well, I'll just let it happen,if you realize, because I'm

(01:01:11):
getting that way.
I mean, I used to spend mymornings doing Bible study and
lately, for like the past sixmonths, I spend my mornings
reading Market Watch and readingall the current trends that are
going on and just finding theones that are like oh, this
sounds like an interestingperspective.
Is that a good way to buildskills, or are there other
things you would suggest forpeople to build that skill set?

(01:01:33):
Yeah, when it comes to investingand training skills, just get
good at observing what'shappening in the world which
industries are doing well, whichindustries are not doing well
and then just reading up on it.
I think, basically, skimmingthrough Wall Street Journal is a
good habit, just to get into ifyou're new, just to get into
the habit.
But once you got into the habit, once you've got your feet wet,

(01:01:54):
so to speak, in the markets,then the best thing you can do
is not listen to anybody or justuse your judgment, right, use
your own mind and see okay,where do I think it's going.
And for investing, a few simplequestions you can ask yourself
is the company that I'minvesting in right now, is it
going to be more relevant orless relevant in the next five
years, right?
Then the second question youask yourself are more people

(01:02:15):
potentially going to be usingthis company or less in the next
five years?
Just to, those two simplequestions can help you make good
investing decisions.
I mean, just let's use anexample.
Five years ago, let's say, if Iasked you the question, are more
people going to be using Amazonor less in the next five years?
Is Amazon going to be morerelevant of a company or less
relevant in the next five years?
The answer was yes.

(01:02:36):
You would have invested inAmazon.
Same thing with Tesla ourelectric vehicle is going to be
more users or less users in thenext five years?
Right?
Our more this company is goingto be more relevant or less
relevant?
Just by answering thosequestions, you could have
invested in Tesla or Apple orany of those stocks five, 10, 20
years ago, right?
So those are the simple twoquestions people need to get in
the habit of asking themselvesand then using your judgment,

(01:02:57):
just to invest in those greatcompanies, and that'll also keep
you out of speculativeinvestments, right?
Like, if you're something youknow biotech stocks somebody
gave you a tip off, but youdon't know if the drug is going
to work.
It's not going to work.
It's all gambling.
We cannot answer those twoquestions, right?
So, that'll give us anindication of not to invest in
that Okay.
That I've.
I remember two, findingdiversifications that they do

(01:03:20):
right.
And another thing that I readand stock market or investing
for dummies was teaching aboutsectors and the protection that
people have by investing invarious sectors, whether it's
consumer defensive or, you know,the technology sector.
Do you do that same sort ofthing?
Are you looking at sectors andsaying, well, you know, small

(01:03:43):
cap has been performing reallypoorly.
This is probably a good time toinvest in some small cap,
because it's going to come backand always does.
Yeah, like certain sectors,definitely like, for example,
right now I'm pretty much mostof my trades are in the
commodities sector, like oil,silver, because I think the
dollar is going to start to comedown and the dollar has an
inverse relationship with thingslike silver, gold and oil.

(01:04:04):
So we would use that to say,okay, majority of my positions
now are long oil, long silver,long gold, short the dollar as
opposed to stocks.
And then when I see, okay,they've already hit there,
they've got their moves, that Imight rotate back into different
stocks or sectors, but it'smore, I would say, advanced
analysis.
So, going back into a typicallistener who just getting into

(01:04:26):
the markets, you don't need toworry about any of this thing,
just keep putting your money inthe markets automatically.
Long term you're going to getthat 10, 12% Because, guess what
, if you put your money in themarket, you can never
underperform the market becauseyou're going to get the market
returns.
So by definition, you'realready doing better than 90% of
the people out there that mightdo all these fancy things and
still underperform the market.

(01:04:47):
So I think for most people itwouldn't matter.
But for you advanced traders,we can take a look at these
correlations of the dollar, thecommodities, and start making
our decisions in that way.
Yeah, I think one of the bestbits of advice I saw in one of
the articles was don't worryabout the specifics that are
going on.
I know it's the investor.
They would rather have someonethat invests $100 a month than

(01:05:08):
someone that involves, invests awhole big chunk of money and
then doesn't invest for a longtime.
That that little bit by littlebit.
Like you said.
The tortoise in the hair rightthe tortoise isn't worried about
the big streak to the end andthen take a rest.
The tortoise is worried aboutjust keep going, plug along plug
along, plug along, and thatultimately wins races all the
time.

(01:05:29):
So so you have a book thatyou've written to that I want to
make sure people are aware ofas well, because that that was
prepping for success isavailable on Amazon.
So people want to know moreabout this philosophy, I guess,
and your your techniques fordoing things.
I'm assuming that's a goodresource to look at.
Yeah, prepping for success greatbook.

(01:05:49):
Nothing to do with trading andinvesting, though, but it's all
about the right mindset that'llhelp you in any area of your
life.
And yeah, it's available onAmazon, barnes, noble, walmart,
anywhere.
When you also you.
There was something I saw onone of the things that you have
a special gift in that giveaway.
Title Ultimate Guide to Tradingin 2023.
How do people get that?

(01:06:10):
Yeah, so if anybody's interestedin learning more about the
markets or getting into thestock market, then they could go
to livetradersguidecom and thenthey'll be able to download a
trading guide that I created.
That'll help answer a lot ofyour questions, okay, so
livetradersguidecom?
So it's a live trader and that'sthe name of your company, isn't
it, livetraderscom?

(01:06:31):
Yeah, company website islivetraderscom and the guide you
can get for free atlivetradersguidecom.
Okay, excellent, which I'massuming is pretty packed with
information about how to getyourself under control.
I mean, I thought you even havea flow chart for kind of almost
a decision making tree, if youwill, right?
Yes, so I'm all any partingwords of advice.

(01:06:54):
I'd love to talk with you againsometime down the road, once
when the, when the market istanking.
I want to talk with you, see ifyou're actually doing what you
say you are, and keeping calm,you know, and being like, ah,
this is just part of the deal,or are you going?
You know that that would be areally telling sign.
Yes, no for sure, I try to keepthat on the inside.

(01:07:19):
Don't we all, don't we all.
Yeah, I teach is like, hey, it'sokay to have the emotion, just
don't act on it.
There you go.
There you go.
Good words of advice in allaspects of living here, isn't
that?
So I hope things are good outin New York and, like I said, I
hope we talk again.
I got to thank you so much foryour time and your suggestions.
Advice, it's a wonderful thing,I think.

(01:07:39):
I hope people that arelistening are going to take away
something and not aren't soterrified of the stock market.
I think that was my problem isI thought, ah, but absolutely
right, if you just take thatkind of calm, measured approach
to it, it's going to flow.
I would think you must have fun, right?
So, yeah, think about it.
It's like your money is likeyour soldiers.

(01:08:00):
Right, you have a certainamount of army not putting.
By investing in the stockmarket, you're sending your army
to go out to battle.
Capture more soldiers, bringhim back to your army and grow,
and that's what the stock marketreally is.
Isn't that fascinating.
There's a game called risk thatdoes exactly that.
There needs to be an electronicversion of that.
So thanks again, all my so much.

(01:08:22):
My guest this week has been on,while saying no relation to
connoonean saying, as far asyou've admitted, at least right.
So, but thank you so much,anmol, for being my guest here.
On Frame of Reference, fullfiles and leadership.
I really appreciate it Greatchatting with you as well.
Thanks for having me Take careBe well.