September 16, 2023 • 49 mins
It's time to challenge the status quo and expose the realities that are eroding the core of our society. The horrifying sequel of events in Jacksonville, Florida, serves as a chilling reminder of how deeply white supremacy is entrenched in our nation. Three innocent lives were lost, a grim reflection of the persistent mindset that threatens to push our society to the brink. As we dissect this tragedy, we delve into the dangerous, growing culture of radicalization and stress the urgent need for unity if we are to survive.
Our discussion takes on the formidable power of censorship, scrutinizing Florida's recent decision to eliminate African American Studies as a college credit. This controversial move raises alarms about the risk of manipulating young minds and a potential shift in the perception of BIPOC communities. We also confront the prevalent culture of white supremacy, tracing its pervasive influence on aspects of our society from voter suppression to religion, and the critical need for education to counter it.
Our conversation touches upon Jesus' criticism of rule-makers, the necessity of understanding His teachings, and the relevance of Martin Luther King's dream in today's context. We navigate the murky waters of gerrymandering, oppression, and power dynamics, spotlighting the importance of adequate representation at all levels of influence. Finally, we flip the script to reflect on how we can foster a global dialogue and encourage a diversity of perspectives to effect positive, lasting change in our society. Tune in, join the conversation, and be part of the change.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Music let's have it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
How's it going, my man?
How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Doing great there, raul, hallelujah.
So just another great, blessedday that the Lord has made and
we'll rejoice and be glad in it.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, you know, and that's when you say that, my
friend, I think the topic thatwe have today, which was one you
came up with, and when you saidit I thought, oh boy.
And the topic, folks, isJacksonville.
And you know, not the touristsites in Jacksonville, of which
(00:50):
I guess there are some nice ones, but the most recent infamy
that it accomplished in thenewspapers I'm not sure how to
say that, but of three innocentfolks being gunned down in a
dollar general, and thatspecific instance, when you put
(01:12):
that topic forward and I startedreading about more of the
particulars, my heart sank, youknow.
And it's just, man, I want tohear your perspective on it
first, because I know the thingsthat have been mulling around
in my heart.
But you know, let's get to it,right.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, you know, of course, we, you know your heart
goes out to the families and tothose that actually were taken
away by this action.
But again, it goes back to thevery fabric fiber of this
country.
You know, and you know, andit's said, the act itself, but
(01:56):
it's really, really bad.
But it's the thought process,the heart, the everything that's
underneath is what is still.
How do we say?
It's a gangrene, it's afestering, it's a rottenness
that's just still existing andit's starting to show itself
even more.
(02:18):
You know, of course, we live ina great country.
Now don't get me wrong.
However, some of thecharacteristics of some I say
some in all caps some people'sthought process is just wrong
and whether, in some instances,you just can't justify, you know
(02:41):
course, is just nojustification of it.
And you know we're talkingabout the underlying thoughts.
You know country that know justmaybe this is 2023, we're
talking even the 1970s and 80sunder Reagan.
We will not be a propagandist,communist, lying country.
(03:03):
But here we are.
No, we're a country, we're thisand that, like all these kinds
of things, but now we'restarting to see some hypocrisy
with that, whereas law and orderabides is set when it pertains
to me and.
But when it comes to what'shappening in Jacksonville, you
know, of course these things aretargeted and people need to
(03:28):
understand they're targeted andthey're deliberate and they're
coming from a different heart.
And of course, no, we hate tohear that term, white supremacy
but it is alive and well andactive and it is getting even
more evil steam and what a lotof people don't really really
truly white and black, whitesupremacy affects us all.
(03:51):
It just affects us differently,you know, of course.
You know, with the actions ofwhite supremacy it is designed
to basically destroy the BIPOCcommunity black, indigenous
people, color communitiesdirectly.
But what it does to whitepeople is it's a continuous
pounding on the head to kind ofcollude, and of course it's
(04:15):
trying to get more and morepeople to collude and to
collaborate and to buy into thisthing that the country is being
stolen and taken to the pointwhere their very humanity is
being crushed.
And then, of course, somepeople even say, well, maybe it
is some truth to the countrybeing taken to us, no, being
taken away from us.
No, it is not.
You know, and of course that'sthe purpose of this podcast, of
(04:38):
course, by the way, antoineHallman, senior Ryle of Brecht,
frame of reference comingtogether.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that,jacksonville today.
And but these things, they arevery hurtful.
They hurt not just black people, but they hurt people of color,
but they hurt white people aswell.
And of course, and you see,these people that perpetrate
(04:59):
these actions, they are gettingyounger and younger.
You know meaning.
There's a radicalization of thewrong sort and again, it's just
a.
That's why we have this podcastjust to hopefully invoke or
provoke a thought of saying, hey, I just want to know the truth,
(05:21):
I just want to know what you'rethinking, how you think, why
you think that way, what can Ido to dispel or even correct or
give you some insight into thatthing that you think.
And that goes both ways.
Hey, I would love to hear youknow what I know, I hear what
you say and I'm veryappreciative because, again, you
(05:43):
and I have some dead honestdialogue and that is so
appreciative.
But it's we just need morepeople to understand that for
the growth of the country andjust for the survival of
humility and humanity that wejust need to come together.
And but overall, it's just Itry not to go into a finger
(06:07):
pointing look at this group,this particular group of people,
this party, this, etc.
But I'll do that.
This thing stems from one side.
This is a one sided thing,because we talk about Florida,
right, yeah, we talked about.
You know, governor, this thing,this, the very thing that he
(06:35):
has preached and perpetuatedover the course of his a
governorship, we see in itmanifest, he manifested this
stuff.
You know, of course, the, the,the, the minimizing of history,
or just a dilution of history,and the misinterpretation, what
the direct, deliberatemisinterpretation of history I
mean.
You can know when I saydeliberate misinterpretation,
(06:57):
meaning you can interpret athing and then you can
deliberately misinterpreted toget a rest, a desire, impact or
response, and of course, that iswhat is happening.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, it's like statistics right, you can make
statistics say just aboutanything you want, you know you.
Just you just have to controlthe dialogue, control the
narrative of the, the, the, thesample collection number one.
You know you can change yourquestions and, you know, frame
your questions in a way thatwill lead people in a certain
(07:28):
direction and that that becomes,you know just part of the
equation of then deciding whichpart of that data that you get
you decide to really capitalizeand focus on.
I mean, there's a, there's alot of, you know, relatively
insidious things going on inthat process that people don't
think about and they don't knowhow to answer.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Right, yeah, because when you take away like a okay
in college, in colleges inFlorida, african American, ap,
african American studies are nolonger go towards credit for
college, your desired degree,right?
What is that?
(08:10):
What, what, what, what, what,what, what.
What is that intent?
It will no longer be taught inhigh schools, but it's no longer
be taught as credit towards nocollegiate graduation.
What is that?
What is that trying to do?
It pursues you not to take itbecause you're a person that's
already on the fence right whyI'm not going to take a class
that I don't get credit for it.
(08:31):
Right, give me anything oraccount for anything, so I won't
take it.
And so when you again you startto take a look, you start to
strip the history clean and youstart to put in stuff in this
place and then like again, likeI said, in 30 years from now, if
we're not careful, people havea whole different thought
process towards a BIPOC people.
(08:52):
Right, oh they, you know they'dbe like.
Oh, they are like Ron Hubbardand they came on spaceships or
whatever the case may, whateverthey say, and that's where we
have to be very mindful anddeliberate.
You know, one of my hobbies Iwon't say hobby, but it's like
one of my things is when a goodbook comes out or I come across
(09:15):
an old book, I try to buy itbecause, again, you know, like
we're banned with the bookbannings and all the different
kind of things, even if I can't,it's just my.
I'm like we're talking how ourqueue of books to read is
continuously growing, but it'slike I buy the book because it,
because I I believe that at somepoint it may one day not be
available.
(09:35):
Yeah, and then, of course, Isay the generations to come
after me and my wife is like youwant them to be able to have
some account of what really wasgoing on right.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, things get shut down, right, it goes out of
print.
You know, and I mean what.
What I think about sometimes iswith website websites and you
know things like our podcast.
You know, if you start sayingthe wrong things too often and
the wrong people find out about,or the right people find out
about it, it's really easy toturn it off.
(10:09):
It's really easy to shut itdown in search engines.
It's really easy to just.
We had a thing with a placethat I work at where Bing
somehow I'm not sure exactly youknow how they did this, but
they changed one of the entriesthat a vendor of ours had a site
(10:30):
for us, that they shut downtheir site.
So on their search engine theysaid we're permanently closed.
So it's like we are notpermanently closed.
But you know, if somebody usedthat search engine and looked
for our company, they would seethat we were permanently closed.
Well, you know, if we were amail order company, that would
(10:51):
be much more devastating thanbeing a retail bricks and mortar
kind of store.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But what was the intent behind that?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, well, you know it's.
Oh, that was a mistake, oh, wemisinterpreted or there was a
problem in the programming.
You know I mean, and you goback to the whole.
You know, deal with thecolleges in Florida.
You know you take away theability for that to work towards
your degree credential, towardsyour credits in school.
You're basically telling peopleit's a waste of your time and
(11:19):
waste of your money to take thisand, guess what, that class
isn't going to be offered forvery long because the attendance
, the enrollment and it's goingto go down so far that when
they're looking for things tocut, they're going to cut those
courses because they're notbringing in the student numbers
that they need to not onlyjustify the class but justify
the department that's teachingthat class.
(11:40):
So it's more, it's just thesame sort of thing.
It's like saying this classthis, this building, this, we're
going, we're doing an out ofbusiness sale here for this
class because we can't surviveanymore.
You know you could be afurniture store and you know
people just aren't coming in thestore anymore because they're
buying their furniture fromAkiah or whatever.
(12:00):
Well, that that's going tochange your whole.
You know we can't employ peopleanymore.
We can't have as many salesmenas we can anymore.
So even if they start coming inthe door, we're not going to be
able to service them.
So you got to think about Ithink about the mindset in that
you know that says, okay, well,we won't attack directly, we'll
just keep hitting on the flank.
(12:21):
And just, you know the war ofattrition where you just keep
hitting and you keep hitting andyou have the resources to keep
bringing more and more soldiersinto the equation and as you
bring those soldiers in, youjust start rotting, eroding,
eroding, eroding, until thereare very few left that can put
up a fight, because the you know, the true the, the tried and
(12:43):
true Christians, whatever youknow the tried and true
ecologists, the tried and trueclimatologists, will eventually
be minimized to the point wherethey can become a fringe.
And this situation and inJacksonville is even more
terrifying to me as a whiteperson because it brings up this
(13:04):
whole scenario.
He left, he left manifestos forhis dad.
He sent his dad a messagesaying watch, you know, look at
your computer.
So he put him, he told his dadwhere to go to find the
manifestos, you know, and thenhe does this whole thing of
going to a black university andwanting to, you know, shoot
people up there.
Thankfully a security guardsees him and, you know,
(13:26):
confronts him and gets him toleave the university.
But then there's video showinghim putting on his bullet proof
vest and, you know, gettinghimself gunned up.
And then he went to find alocation.
And let's think about thelocation.
It's a dollar general, forgoodness sakes, a dollar general
.
So the three people that gotkilled the 57 year old, you know
(13:47):
woman that was there, the 23year old man and a 19 year old
guy, you know, who's reallystill a kid at that level, at
that age so they're just in adollar general trying to get.
I mean, I've been in dollargenerals, dollar stores,
whatever, you know you go inthere.
This isn't high end merchandise, this is stuff that's priced at
(14:08):
levels that you know the mosteconomically challenged people
can go to and at least getsomething.
You know they can get laundrydetergent, they can get some
deals on clothing, you know, andit comes in spurts.
You know, it's not like you cannecessarily guarantee you're
going to get what you need, butyou just have to kind of keep
(14:29):
going there and shopping andsaying, oh yeah, I do need some
of this and it'll be, you know,a third of the price that you
would pay anywhere else and that.
So here they are just doingthat, just just shopping for
stuff for daily life, and someguy comes in and picks off
indiscriminately.
You know the, the, I think Imean the only thing that seemed
to be a criteria was it had tobe a black person.
(14:51):
So if you happen to be, youknow, in Latinx or you know you
happen to be a white person thatwas also looking for good deals
on things, you probably wereokay, you know, but just
shooting those people and whatis what does that take?
And you've said this before,you know where the cry of a
black man is.
You know we we as a country areare getting more and more, you
(15:13):
know, immune or in, I'm not sureyou know, kind of closing down
to hearing these messages andeven the news.
You know you can't hardly findanything on Jacksonville today.
But if that was Columbine, ifthat was a situation where you
know a black individual had comein and shot three white people,
oh my God, you can imagine thenews coverage.
(15:34):
So when people say to me well, Iwonder how many?
You know white people arekilled by black men every day.
You know well, excuse me, butyou're going to use that one as
a justification for this that weshould just allow this to
happen because you know ithappens.
Well, excuse me, but that'slike saying you know anything
absurd about?
(15:55):
Well, yeah, you know I, I wishthat wouldn't happen, but you
know this happens too to.
You know, my people, frenchpeople, French people, they get
discriminated against all thetime.
You know, come on, come on,people.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I don't get it.
We got to understand and and,yeah, we have to take away the
fact.
You know that's just a reallykill the cut the kill the
conversation, that this wasrandom.
It was not random, you know, itwas deliberate and it was
targeted.
Just as in our Paso Texas when,like you said, those those
places where you know minorityshop or where they congregate or
where they gather, you know, ofcourse, like the church in
(16:33):
South Carolina, you know, ofcourse, that gentleman, he knew
that that was a black church.
You know, in our Paso Texas,you know that was going to be in
a predominantly Latin X orLatin community, just like in
Buffalo.
You know that tops thatcommunity, you know.
And then, of course, here inJacksonville, you know and, and,
and it's like in apredominantly black community.
(16:53):
So it just I want to take awaythe fact that it it was not
random, and then, of course,with the evidence left behind in
the manifestos, but again it'slike the, the, the things that
are behind that way of thinking,you know.
Again, it's like we're talkingabout how people like, did you
(17:14):
use it?
Actually, just on the news lastnight, there was a state, a
state senator, a staterepresentative, senator,
whatever, from the state ofGeorgia talking about civil war.
Now, this is a, a stateofficial, a government employee
talking about well, you know, ifthey prosecute him in the state
(17:38):
of Georgia, when do I?
Why do I have to go get my gunsto get justice?
And it's like justice is beingserved, you know, and it's going
, and justice is a due process,you know.
So, basically, but thisgentleman is talking about going
to get guns because, let's justface it, a crime was caught and
(17:59):
called out and now it's beingprosecuted and it's going
through the process.
Yeah, you know, and and andthat's where, again, it's like
we're in a space, in a timewhere you know people very
people that say oh, we're allfor law and order, law and order
.
law and order is law and order,except when it pertains to them,
and this is the is it's.
It hurts because, again, thisis the marginalization of people
(18:23):
.
This is where right supremacykind of rains.
Now, of course, what happened?
You know all throughout historywhat we see.
You know you criticize a thing,right.
When you can't control it,you're going to criticize it,
yeah.
And when the criticism does notwork, what you're going to do,
you've got to threaten it, yeah.
That's it Don't work.
(18:44):
That's when you get physical.
That's a common human and we'reseeing that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I don't, and so I go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
No, it's just.
We see the steps, you know.
We see these things perpetuatein different parts of the
country.
Well, there are so many ofthese instances that we just
don't hear about.
We all heard of Tulsa and somepeople may have heard of
Rosewood, Florida, but a lot ofthese things happened all across
(19:17):
Florida, Georgia, Mississippi,Alabama.
It's still happening inLouisiana, and so it's just we
just don't hear about them.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, tulsa, tulsa, the Tulsa massacre.
You know that's a, you knowlet's talk about a blemish on
American society.
That's, you know, a situationwhere you know, look up I mean,
sometimes people call it theTulsa riot it was in fact a
massacre, and you know of suchthat there, the incident that
(19:49):
you know provoked it was a blackman supposedly whistling, or
was it whistling, or just, youknow, making a lewd comment to a
white woman, and then she, youknow, went forward and just
saying you know, this black mandid this.
But he was arrested, wasn't he?
And then put in jail.
He did.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
The two were in an elevator, yep, and she, he was
accused of something.
And then of course, a bunch ofhe was arrested.
And then of course a bunch ofwhite men say let's go and get
them and lynch them, and allthis and that, and the other
than the black men in thecommunity like no, we're not
going to let this happen.
Like this, Right, you know, andso in.
And then there was basically inthat heated stance, right,
(20:31):
let's just use the analogysomebody dropped a pen and,
regardless of what side droppedthe pen, boom, there it was.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
And then, of course, then they, then they wouldn't
get planes to bomb the place,and everything else Fire,
incendiary bombs, yeah, withbiplanes, you know this is how,
you know that was not veryadvanced.
They're hanging out the theside of a biplane and dropping,
you know, small, essentiallygrenades, you know, onto houses.
I mean, fires started.
You can go through, you know,tulsa today and see streets
(21:03):
where there's just steps up tohouses, concrete steps that led
up to the lawns, the front lawns, the front sidewalks of houses
that burned to the ground, youknow, and those have been left
there.
The land hasn't been sold butleft there as a testament to
this thing happened.
They, you know, can do grounds,sonar, where a freeway was built
(21:24):
, but you can still do groundsonar, and find that there are
bodies after bodies after bodiesthat are buried in a location
that I'm, you know people had toknow that that was a mass grave
and yet they built anexpressway over it.
You know, I mean you, just, Ican't even get my head around
the fact of how, you know awfulthese things are and yet we,
(21:48):
just, we don't want to teachthat.
You know, we don't want peopleto know about that.
And if you, you can't even takeAP Black history anymore
because we don't want, we don'twant white people feeling bad
about.
You know things like that thathappened so far ago in in our
history.
And let me tell you, folks, asa white guy, I do feel bad.
I do feel bad that that stuffhappens, but not because I'm a
(22:10):
white person, because ithappened to people.
It happened to people whetherit's Kosovo or Israel, or
Palestine, or Kansas orJacksonville, florida.
This is people doing horriblethings to people because they're
allowing themselves to believea lie that that other person is
(22:34):
other than me, is different thanme, because their skin is black
, the religion is different,they're.
You know the thing that theypractice on Sunday mornings.
I don't understand it's.
You know Muslim stuff and we'reChristian country and whatever
you got you got all kinds ofreasons there that are fed to us
like corn flakes to feel youknow that that that's somehow
(22:57):
justified to otherize a person,where you can walk in to a
dollar general and just startshooting people up because
you've been indoctrinated into aline of thought that says
that's okay.
In fact, that's not only okay,but that's your responsibility
to do that to save America.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And man, that's.
That was deep brother.
And one last thing about theTulsa situation, of course, like
you know the risk, the numberswere greatly misrepresented.
You know, of course, like thesurvivors and the descendants of
the survivors all say the samething, that there were trucks of
bodies taken out of there.
(23:41):
In the course, like when youtalk about how big Black Wall
Street was and how long it was,and then the surrounding
communities they say, oh, 300people were the survivors and
the descendants of the survivors.
Truckloads of people taken,dead bodies, dead Black bodies
(24:02):
taken out of there.
Yeah, but yes and just goingyeah, and so the numbers are
greatly misrepresented.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
So multiply by a factor of 10, basically, if you
want to know, you know somewhereclose to what the numbers were
and you can look at thepopulation that was there before
that happened and then what youwere just saying how, how we
were talking earlier, yeah, andhow we were saying just a second
ago, how, like you know, thethought process behind
Jacksonville is is just bad.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And, of course, if we think about that particular
culture, that white supremacistculture and you just touched on
it how, yes, that action was amanifestation of what is, but
what about the other things thatit so greatly affects?
You know, like this whitesupremacist type of culture, it
affects, you know, the variousoppressions far as voter
(24:55):
suppression and oppression,right, capitalism, sexism, class
, like you said, race, gender,religion, age, it, it, it, this,
this, that particular cultureaffects us in every single area
of life and we really have toget to the bottom of it.
And then it's going to be hardto do, because some people are
(25:18):
going to fight this thing tillthey die, and it's like they're
going to go to their graveshating and it's like, and then,
of course, these same people,with this hate in their hearts,
save their Christian.
And that's why it's so hard forpeople to understand
Christianity today, because ofthe actions that are being
exhibited.
You know Christ, you know he,you know we are to exhibit his
(25:39):
culture and manifest his nature,which Jesus.
He loved people, he forgavepeople and he gave.
You know we don't see a lot ofthat in the Christian culture
today.
You know, and that's where it'sgetting hard.
I won't, I hate saying this,but it's harder and harder to
(26:00):
disciple people, or it's likeyou have to go that much.
You have to, like, say to a newbeliever you really have to
hold their hand that much morefor them to get a full
understanding of the Bible, youknow, and before you let them go
off on their own to start totry and study, because you have
to walk them through that muchmore to explain a lot of the
(26:21):
things that are happening today.
Yeah, yeah, you think about howit lines up with the word.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, think about how .
You know, the people that Jesusgot angry with.
The people that he took issuewith were not the Mary
Magdalene's, you know, the taxcollectors, the you know the
folks that were just getting by,you know, were surviving.
He took issue with the peoplethat had it all figured out.
(26:48):
They were the rule book makers,they were the rule book
interpreters, they were the onesthat got to decide who was
accepted and who was banishedand who was, you know, it was
ostracized or corrected.
You know that that's the person, that's the mindset, that's the
level of humanity that so manyof us that call ourselves
(27:13):
Christians and I'd be one of thefirst ones to say that I can
call myself a car and go sit ina garage.
That does not make me a car.
So I can call myself aChristian and go to church
regularly, but that does notmake a person Christian.
So we have to, you know,separate that from a Christian
as a follower of Christ.
(27:35):
A Christian is someone thatreally has looked at who Jesus
was, what he did and says Ibelieve that this man is on to
something here.
And then, you know, you startto really analyze and say, okay,
well, he isn't just a greatteacher.
Because if this guy said whathe says, what they say he said
and we've got, you know, recordsof what he said that are within
(27:57):
decades of when he was alive,you know, like in some cases
less than 20 years the existingfragments, so we have a pretty
good handle on he said this, itwas recorded that he said this
and this is what he said.
And you have a phrase like I amthe way and the truth and the
life.
No man comes to the father, butthrough me, somebody that says
(28:18):
that.
Folks, you got to come to gripswith the fact that that's not
just a teacher.
That's either a liar, a lunaticor who he says he is.
So come to grips with that.
And if you want to believe he'sa liar, if you want to believe
he's a lunatic, okay, but callit that.
You know, just understand thatI don't think he's a great
teacher.
And when somebody says, oh yeah, he's just one of the prophets,
(28:39):
nope, I'm sorry, can't buy that.
The guy's a lunatic, that's youknow.
At least you're beingconsistent at that point, you
know.
Or the guy's a complete liar,because nobody could say that
stuff, or you say you know, Ican understand how you believe
that.
But I've looked at these versesand I can't reconcile them as
anything other than liar,lunatic or who he says he is.
(29:00):
And from my experience my life,my walk I have to say he is who
he says he is.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And you made a.
You just you made a great pointright when he, he said who did
Jesus' most scalding wordsagainst it?
What?
The people of the poor right,the people of the lower life in
that time?
But it was against thePharisees and Sanctuces and
those guys.
And then, and those are thevery guys that, like you said,
(29:31):
they called it like oh, he has a, he, he's dangerous, he has a
demon, it's like.
No, exactly.
But also think about this andeven the Bible even tells us
that a lot of the Sadducees andPharisees believed, but they
would not confess them openlybefore fear being kicked out of
the synagogue.
(29:51):
And so look at today, you know,of course there's a because, in
the grand scheme of things,there's a small group of people
that that hate, like that right,but there's an even larger
group that is against that thing, but they won't say anything
for fear of being alienatedthemselves.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I was thinking of that this morning, how Martin
Luther King towards the very end, I think the night before
Memphis happened you know wherehe was assassinated, that he
talked about that he, he notonly realized that there was a
lot further to go, you know,with the road that he talked
about, the things, the visionthat he had when he had his I
dream of, I dream speech.
(30:33):
You know and you know thethings that the, the the
platitudes, the vision, theaspirations that that are talked
about in that speech, which isstill today one of the most
inspiring speeches and is quotedby people on the right and the
left to say you know, yeah, Ialign with Martin Luther King.
I, I believe that you know,we're going to judge people by
(30:54):
the content of their character.
Okay, all right.
So then he gets to the end ofhis career, the end of his time
on the earth, and he says hebelieves that there there was a
lot more work to be done and thething that he feared the most
was that moderate America thepeople you're just alluding to,
moderate America was was notenergized enough to really
(31:19):
confront and do the work, theheavy lifting Cause.
You know when you're talkingabout, you know, folks, when
we're talking about white peoplefeeling bad about what's
happening to black people, justtry to think about in terms.
People are doing this to otherpeople and why.
Why do I constantly getredirected to feeling that
(31:40):
that's somehow justifiable?
And it's because moderateAmerica wants to stay moderate
America.
And when we're talking heavylifting, like dealing with these
kinds of topics, it's likeexercise.
You know people can say, oh man,I need to lose some weight, I
need to diet some more, I needto eat better.
(32:02):
You know, and you know you needto do that.
But you know what?
Oh, oh God, yeah, projectrunway is on Right after I get
done watching project runway, orright after I get done watching
.
You know desperate housewives,whatever your thing is, that
you're really into the show thatyou really like, or the thing
that you have, a game you wantto watch.
(32:22):
You know there are so manydistractions that keep us from
doing what we know we should do,and that's get on the bike.
Or you know get.
You know don't stop buyingDoritos at the store and start
buying, you know, some apples.
You know those things are notfun, but they are the only way.
You know we can't either.
(32:43):
Or there are people that try tosell pills and whatnot, that,
oh, this will turn 20 pounds offat in one week.
You know, come on, come on.
You know the only way to getinto a healthy shape is to do
the hard work that it takes toget there.
You got to.
You got to realize you're goingto be hungry.
You got to realize you're goingto hurt.
You got to realize that somedays you're not going to want to
(33:04):
do it and you got to pushthrough it anyways.
That's the only way.
And this is the same darn thing.
On a spiritual level, on anemotional level, this is America
confronting all of usconfronting that.
This is not okay.
This is not who we want to be.
We do believe that all men, allpeople, are created equal, all,
(33:27):
all of them.
So that being our you know,fundamental belief, as our
country, as Americans, aspatriots, we have to do
something that aligns with that,and one of them is to stand up
and say no, no more, no morekilling because you're black, no
(33:47):
more killing because you'reMuslim, no more killing because
you're Christian, no morekilling because you're an old
fart.
You don't know what you'retalking about, mister.
So you know, make room for theyoung people of the world.
No more, no more.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
And that's where the attacks are coming again, again
against the visa.
This created culture warbecause people are in a space
where because, like, let's justface it, you know a lot of
people in this country like, say, people of means, whether they
are white or black or whatever,they insulate themselves with
what they want and desire, theirlifestyle, their way of life.
(34:26):
They don't have to deal withanything outside of what they
don't want to deal with, and sothings happen.
Or when they are, when we talkabout social, racial, economic
injustices, the first thing thatwell, it doesn't affect me, or
it doesn't affect my children,it doesn't affect me because
they're so deeply insulated,like we're talking about that
moderate, middle of the road,american right.
(34:48):
And it's like, if you can, it'slike you can no longer just
stand and sit by and say, ohwell, it doesn't affect me,
because down the road it will.
If it ain't affecting you now,it's going to affect your
grandchildren, you know.
And of course.
And then, with the way thethings are going now, they're
going to be forced to pick aside, almost, instead of us
coming together in unity andjust really trying to come up
(35:12):
with solutions.
People are being because we'reseeing it right now, people are
being forced to pick sides and,of course, like, when we talk
about picking sides, right, it'slike either you are of, let's
just call it out, you know, ofcourse, white supremacy has
masked itself in different forms.
You know, of course, like youknow, when we start talking
(35:32):
about equity and inclusion,right, people saying, oh, my
kids are being made to feel bad.
No, and that's just the under,that's just a surface argument
to a deeper issue, because,again, white supremacy goes deep
.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
it goes deep, deep, deep you know, and it's like
when we're talking about thosethings like like that.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
It's like it's, it has masked itself.
You know, gerrymanderinggerrymandering as an example.
You know, of course, that goalbecause it's about oppressing.
It's about oppressing aspecific group of people, to
choke them out and take awaytheir voice.
And so, when we're talkingabout these things, it's
(36:13):
designed, it's deliberatelydesigned, to take away the voice
and even the lives of the quoteunquote minorities in this
country, because some peoplehave exalted themselves and feel
that they are superior or feellike this is theirs, when that's
(36:33):
not the case.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, it's really easy to think gerrymandering is
no big deal when you're lookingat a map with lines that are
driven, you know, drawn veryneatly.
But then when you go to thoseplaces and you look at the
streets that are beingdelineated as the places where
the line is drawn, just you know, google map it, because Google
map generally you can at leastsee, you know what, what streets
we're talking about, whathouses are on that street.
(36:56):
You'll you'll get a pretty goodidea pretty quickly of why that
street was chosen instead ofthe one three blocks over east
or west or north or south.
You know it's in and I'm notthe one to sit there and say you
know well, Republicans are badbecause they did that.
That's been being done for along time.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
It's all about power, you know like when they built
the, when they built theprojects, the history of Chicago
, when you really read up on it,in like with a Mayor Daley at
the time and him and a bunch ofother guys, they knew what was
going to happen.
Like you said, this thing hasbeen in play for a really long
time.
(37:35):
Even when they, before theybuilt the projects, they knew
what the intent was to do thisto devalue that land for to sell
it later.
So it'll go down and we seethat right now, 2023, everywhere
that I, almost everywhere thatI used to know no longer exists.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And another piece of wonderful news the last female
black woman female black, yeah,of course, a female woman I, the
last black woman that was theCEO of a S&P 500 corporation or
an S&P company that was listedon it, resigned yesterday or the
(38:18):
day before.
So you know, for there to justbe one African American woman,
you know, serving in that hugeconstruct, that ought to tell
you to something aboutfundamentally, what we've talked
about over and over again.
It's not black and white, it'snot, you know, brown skin and
yellow skin.
It's haves and have nots.
The haves have an agenda thatthey are, you know, seeking to
(38:43):
accomplish and further, and wehave to stop getting caught up
in this.
You know nonsense of, you knowattacking, you know the
peripheral argument or theperipheral, you know the thing
that's being set up as the issueand realize that that that is
(39:04):
the same as if we were fishingand you know we're trying to do
things to get the fish to gatherin a polluted place of the lake
.
You know you can say you knowall the.
This is a great fishing spot,it's always been a great fishing
spot, but if it's all thesudden next to a drainage, ditch
, for you know a company that'sspewing stuff in your great
(39:25):
fishing spot just got turnedinto, you know, a horrible place
to fish.
You know, in some ways, thatthat's kind of the way we do
things.
We keep on, you know, turningfertile ground like the civil
rights movement into a putridmess by coloring it in ways that
make people not want to touchit.
(39:47):
It's going to make me feel bad.
They're trying to make you know.
It seemed like I'm a racist.
I'm not a racist.
I have black friends, I, youknow whatever that.
That stuff, those narrativeswe've talked about that before
right, those narratives are verycarefully chosen, strategically
chosen to keep us from thinkingabout the real issues Thought
out yeah, Is it okay for peopleto do these things to people?
(40:11):
Dude, we're already at, like youknow, 50 minutes.
As always, you know we getgoing on something.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Closing thoughts.
Yeah, just when we were justtalking there, you mentioned
about the haves and have nots.
Right, and of course, the havesare using the have, one group
of have nots against anothergroup of have nots, saying that
these other group of have notsare trying to take away what you
have.
And of course, this is aplaybook.
You know, when Nixon started touse this playbook a member, he
(40:40):
was from California, but hestarted to really target the
people of the South, saying, hey, this, that and the other.
And we see that same playbookBecause, like you hear, like,
say, donald Trump he used theword we, he's like, he has no
place in the South, he would ifhe had a choice.
He, he lives in Mar-a-Lago, outof the way.
(41:03):
But again, it's like we talkedabout this before how, like, say
, the people that are inPositions of power are using
other people as pawns to executetheir strategy and their plan.
And again, it's like, when wecan really reach that other
group of people and say, hey,when you really get that, the
grand scheme of things, we arethe same exact, you know, and
(41:24):
like we say we talked about thisbefore how people are boating
against their own best interestsbecause of this thing, because,
again, this thing is maxed tolook like something different.
But that's why we're havingthese conversations.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
So let's think our hearts when you talk about the
that name that you justmentioned and we say that he
represents me.
He does great things for thecountry.
You know, I, I will, people canbelieve that.
You know, I look at it andthink, okay, I, you know, that's
from your perspective, youthink that's a really good thing
, but I want to challenge people, and you know those who are
(42:00):
listening that would never votethat way.
Just, you know, you know, keepestablishing, keep relating,
keep trying to have Interactionswith people that are, you know,
ardent Trump supporters or areon that middle of the line where
I, I can't vote for biden sol,have to vote for trump, whatever
.
Just think about one thing if,if he was, you know, wanting to
(42:21):
be the head of the, you know,cio or the cf, what is it?
The truckers union, afl, cio,right, if he, if he was trying
to do that, or if he was tryingto set himself up as a
preeminent mechanic and Hisbackground was as a furniture
salesman, you know, or hisbackground was, as you know, a
(42:43):
man who, you know, our carpetsalesman, you know, a carpet
beggar.
Look that one up.
Um, if that was his profession,would the those organizations,
the afl cio members, wouldpeople that were machinist
mechanics, would they let thatperson represent them?
And of course not, because thatperson doesn't have any
(43:04):
understanding of what issuesthey deal with on a day to day
basis.
They may say they do and theymay be able to speak, to speak,
but you're, you're just a commonsense would tell you.
That's not the guy that needsto represent us.
We need somebody that has beenwalking in our, our shoes, that
has lived the kind of life wehave to live to understand why
(43:25):
this pay raise, why whatever, isso important and necessary for
us.
So just look at both biden,look at both bitum and trump and
look at their lifestyles andplease, please, please, tell me
and tell yourself how, how doesthat person in that lifestyle
(43:46):
Understand the majority ofamericans and what we deal with
on a day in, day out basis, how?
And yet we are electing them,we are forced to elect one of
them to represent all of us andto make decisions for all of us.
You got to think about that.
You got to think about thatgoing beyond.
I've always voted democrat.
(44:06):
My mom and dad were democrats,you know.
I believe in the republicanagenda, that he does great
things for the country.
You got to think beyond thosenarratives and think about who
out there.
Is there anyone?
I don't even know if there is acandidate out there of 343
million people in this country,is there a candidate anywhere
(44:27):
that the vast majority of uscould get behind?
Because he's lincoln, he's theguy that you know grew up in a
lean to in kentucky and heunderstands what it is, you know
to to go without.
He's john bainer Bainer, whoyou know grew up in a house, a
small house, and you know kidsand his family slept in the
(44:48):
drawers of their you knowdressers because there wasn't
room and there for everybodyhave their own bed.
You know where.
Where are those people that wecould all get behind and say you
know this guy is a politician,but he still.
Or this woman is a politicianbut she still.
She understands the day in, dayout battles that you and I have
.
Let's find that person.
(45:10):
Let's stop playing the narrativethat these you know the multi
million dollar corporations thatfund what is necessary to get
you know on the ticket even Um,you know how do we change that
around that?
That should be the core thingwe talk about, because we don't
want to see people walking intodollar generals anymore and
(45:31):
shooting Folks just because theyhappen to be in the wrong place
at the wrong time and theyhappen to be the wrong color
skin from that person'sperspective.
And I'm not arguing gun controlor any of that.
You know that those aredifferent discussions.
Guns don't kill people.
People kill people.
So, and people kill peoplebecause they're in a mindset
that tells them it's okay tokill people and that's what
(45:54):
we're getting at.
That's what jacksonville shouldrepresent, has to represent to
all of us.
Is that?
Is it okay for A person to dothat to those people?
Because that 19 year old youngman is never coming home again,
that 57 year old mom and I don'tknow grandma she's never coming
(46:14):
home again.
Is that okay?
Is that okay for somebody to dothat?
And if it's not okay which Ibelieve the vast majority of us
would say no, of course that'snot okay.
And what are you and I To makesure that it at least decrease?
We're not going to wipe thatout, because the human heart is
just too wicked and deceitfuland you know We'll hang on to
(46:36):
the vestiges of it's.
You know what I want mentality.
But yeah, god, we ought tostart making progress to that.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yep, and just, uh, like, just to end, like what
you're just saying, let's justlike we said that that course
the action of itself is notRight at all, but the thought
process, the motive, the intentIs, you know, just think about
those things.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
So here we've been talking again frame of reference
coming together.
I'm rawl a brush.
You are young man, what is your?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
It's one home and see you that's right.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And I call him young man because he's about 10 years
younger than I am, so I get tosay I'm the old guy.
So, but in reality we're bothold guys, right?
That's just the way it is.
So my friend always, alwaysenergizes me.
Talking with you, I appreciate,um, I appreciate your candor, I
appreciate your perspective.
I, I, I, just I.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
The more we talk, the more I value our friendship and
absolutely, and uh, that is uhso mutual, uh rawl.
And again, uh, I, I just uhAttributed our relationship to
just uh me is just personalgrowth and you know just uh to,
to really be able to talk tosomeone.
That does not necessarily wedon't have to agree on
(47:55):
everything, right, but it's likebeing willing to, just being
willing To hear it out.
And then it's like, oh wow,yeah, I never thought of that, I
never saw it that way, and so I, I, just I thank god for the
relationship, brother.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, you know just and like we keep building
ourselves.
This is our brand is I'm just aold white guy and You're a less
old black guy?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
I can't that's it less old yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I don't live in a place with gold seats.
I live in, you know I grow.
You have a small house that I'mtrying to get painted.
You know, right now that's my.
My goal for the rest of thesummer is try to get one more
wall painted on it.
So I have no pretense otherthan I can tell you, from my
perspective, this man across thescreen from me, and twan
hallman, is the real deal.
(48:43):
Um, I hope, I hope he continuesto see me that way and that I
continue to be that way.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
The you are and you will.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Folks, thanks for listening, thanks for being a
part of the discussion, you know.
Please go to www f oruk4sockcom.
Leave a comment, leave amessage, leave an argument,
leave a perspective, give yourframe of reference to the whole
thing so we can keep thedialogue going from more than
you know, more than a couple ofguys perspective.
(49:13):
This should be a world dialogue.
Um so, appreciate you listening, appreciate you being with me,
my friend.
Uh all right, until next time,all right.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, have a great one.
Music let's have it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
How's it going, my man?
How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Doing great there, raul, hallelujah.
So just another great, blessedday that the Lord has made and
we'll rejoice and be glad in it.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, you know, and that's when you say that, my
friend, I think the topic thatwe have today, which was one you
came up with, and when you saidit I thought, oh boy.
And the topic, folks, isJacksonville.
And you know, not the touristsites in Jacksonville, of which
(00:50):
I guess there are some nice ones, but the most recent infamy
that it accomplished in thenewspapers I'm not sure how to
say that, but of three innocentfolks being gunned down in a
dollar general, and thatspecific instance, when you put
(01:12):
that topic forward and I startedreading about more of the
particulars, my heart sank, youknow.
And it's just, man, I want tohear your perspective on it
first, because I know the thingsthat have been mulling around
in my heart.
But you know, let's get to it,right.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, you know, of course, we, you know your heart
goes out to the families and tothose that actually were taken
away by this action.
But again, it goes back to thevery fabric fiber of this
country.
You know, and you know, andit's said, the act itself, but
(01:56):
it's really, really bad.
But it's the thought process,the heart, the everything that's
underneath is what is still.
How do we say?
It's a gangrene, it's afestering, it's a rottenness
that's just still existing andit's starting to show itself
even more.
(02:18):
You know, of course, we live ina great country.
Now don't get me wrong.
However, some of thecharacteristics of some I say
some in all caps some people'sthought process is just wrong
and whether, in some instances,you just can't justify, you know
(02:41):
course, is just nojustification of it.
And you know we're talkingabout the underlying thoughts.
You know country that know justmaybe this is 2023, we're
talking even the 1970s and 80sunder Reagan.
We will not be a propagandist,communist, lying country.
(03:03):
But here we are.
No, we're a country, we're thisand that, like all these kinds
of things, but now we'restarting to see some hypocrisy
with that, whereas law and orderabides is set when it pertains
to me and.
But when it comes to what'shappening in Jacksonville, you
know, of course these things aretargeted and people need to
(03:28):
understand they're targeted andthey're deliberate and they're
coming from a different heart.
And of course, no, we hate tohear that term, white supremacy
but it is alive and well andactive and it is getting even
more evil steam and what a lotof people don't really really
truly white and black, whitesupremacy affects us all.
(03:51):
It just affects us differently,you know, of course.
You know, with the actions ofwhite supremacy it is designed
to basically destroy the BIPOCcommunity black, indigenous
people, color communitiesdirectly.
But what it does to whitepeople is it's a continuous
pounding on the head to kind ofcollude, and of course it's
(04:15):
trying to get more and morepeople to collude and to
collaborate and to buy into thisthing that the country is being
stolen and taken to the pointwhere their very humanity is
being crushed.
And then, of course, somepeople even say, well, maybe it
is some truth to the countrybeing taken to us, no, being
taken away from us.
No, it is not.
You know, and of course that'sthe purpose of this podcast, of
(04:38):
course, by the way, antoineHallman, senior Ryle of Brecht,
frame of reference comingtogether.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that,jacksonville today.
And but these things, they arevery hurtful.
They hurt not just black people, but they hurt people of color,
but they hurt white people aswell.
And of course, and you see,these people that perpetrate
(04:59):
these actions, they are gettingyounger and younger.
You know meaning.
There's a radicalization of thewrong sort and again, it's just
a.
That's why we have this podcastjust to hopefully invoke or
provoke a thought of saying, hey, I just want to know the truth,
(05:21):
I just want to know what you'rethinking, how you think, why
you think that way, what can Ido to dispel or even correct or
give you some insight into thatthing that you think.
And that goes both ways.
Hey, I would love to hear youknow what I know, I hear what
you say and I'm veryappreciative because, again, you
(05:43):
and I have some dead honestdialogue and that is so
appreciative.
But it's we just need morepeople to understand that for
the growth of the country andjust for the survival of
humility and humanity that wejust need to come together.
And but overall, it's just Itry not to go into a finger
(06:07):
pointing look at this group,this particular group of people,
this party, this, etc.
But I'll do that.
This thing stems from one side.
This is a one sided thing,because we talk about Florida,
right, yeah, we talked about.
You know, governor, this thing,this, the very thing that he
(06:35):
has preached and perpetuatedover the course of his a
governorship, we see in itmanifest, he manifested this
stuff.
You know, of course, the, the,the, the minimizing of history,
or just a dilution of history,and the misinterpretation, what
the direct, deliberatemisinterpretation of history I
mean.
You can know when I saydeliberate misinterpretation,
(06:57):
meaning you can interpret athing and then you can
deliberately misinterpreted toget a rest, a desire, impact or
response, and of course, that iswhat is happening.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, it's like statistics right, you can make
statistics say just aboutanything you want, you know you.
Just you just have to controlthe dialogue, control the
narrative of the, the, the, thesample collection number one.
You know you can change yourquestions and, you know, frame
your questions in a way thatwill lead people in a certain
(07:28):
direction and that that becomes,you know just part of the
equation of then deciding whichpart of that data that you get
you decide to really capitalizeand focus on.
I mean, there's a, there's alot of, you know, relatively
insidious things going on inthat process that people don't
think about and they don't knowhow to answer.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Right, yeah, because when you take away like a okay
in college, in colleges inFlorida, african American, ap,
african American studies are nolonger go towards credit for
college, your desired degree,right?
What is that?
(08:10):
What, what, what, what, what,what, what.
What is that intent?
It will no longer be taught inhigh schools, but it's no longer
be taught as credit towards nocollegiate graduation.
What is that?
What is that trying to do?
It pursues you not to take itbecause you're a person that's
already on the fence right whyI'm not going to take a class
that I don't get credit for it.
(08:31):
Right, give me anything oraccount for anything, so I won't
take it.
And so when you again you startto take a look, you start to
strip the history clean and youstart to put in stuff in this
place and then like again, likeI said, in 30 years from now, if
we're not careful, people havea whole different thought
process towards a BIPOC people.
(08:52):
Right, oh they, you know they'dbe like.
Oh, they are like Ron Hubbardand they came on spaceships or
whatever the case may, whateverthey say, and that's where we
have to be very mindful anddeliberate.
You know, one of my hobbies Iwon't say hobby, but it's like
one of my things is when a goodbook comes out or I come across
(09:15):
an old book, I try to buy itbecause, again, you know, like
we're banned with the bookbannings and all the different
kind of things, even if I can't,it's just my.
I'm like we're talking how ourqueue of books to read is
continuously growing, but it'slike I buy the book because it,
because I I believe that at somepoint it may one day not be
available.
(09:35):
Yeah, and then, of course, Isay the generations to come
after me and my wife is like youwant them to be able to have
some account of what really wasgoing on right.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, things get shut down, right, it goes out of
print.
You know, and I mean what.
What I think about sometimes iswith website websites and you
know things like our podcast.
You know, if you start sayingthe wrong things too often and
the wrong people find out about,or the right people find out
about it, it's really easy toturn it off.
(10:09):
It's really easy to shut itdown in search engines.
It's really easy to just.
We had a thing with a placethat I work at where Bing
somehow I'm not sure exactly youknow how they did this, but
they changed one of the entriesthat a vendor of ours had a site
(10:30):
for us, that they shut downtheir site.
So on their search engine theysaid we're permanently closed.
So it's like we are notpermanently closed.
But you know, if somebody usedthat search engine and looked
for our company, they would seethat we were permanently closed.
Well, you know, if we were amail order company, that would
(10:51):
be much more devastating thanbeing a retail bricks and mortar
kind of store.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But what was the intent behind that?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, well, you know it's.
Oh, that was a mistake, oh, wemisinterpreted or there was a
problem in the programming.
You know I mean, and you goback to the whole.
You know, deal with thecolleges in Florida.
You know you take away theability for that to work towards
your degree credential, towardsyour credits in school.
You're basically telling peopleit's a waste of your time and
(11:19):
waste of your money to take thisand, guess what, that class
isn't going to be offered forvery long because the attendance
, the enrollment and it's goingto go down so far that when
they're looking for things tocut, they're going to cut those
courses because they're notbringing in the student numbers
that they need to not onlyjustify the class but justify
the department that's teachingthat class.
(11:40):
So it's more, it's just thesame sort of thing.
It's like saying this classthis, this building, this, we're
going, we're doing an out ofbusiness sale here for this
class because we can't surviveanymore.
You know you could be afurniture store and you know
people just aren't coming in thestore anymore because they're
buying their furniture fromAkiah or whatever.
(12:00):
Well, that that's going tochange your whole.
You know we can't employ peopleanymore.
We can't have as many salesmenas we can anymore.
So even if they start coming inthe door, we're not going to be
able to service them.
So you got to think about Ithink about the mindset in that
you know that says, okay, well,we won't attack directly, we'll
just keep hitting on the flank.
(12:21):
And just, you know the war ofattrition where you just keep
hitting and you keep hitting andyou have the resources to keep
bringing more and more soldiersinto the equation and as you
bring those soldiers in, youjust start rotting, eroding,
eroding, eroding, until thereare very few left that can put
up a fight, because the you know, the true the, the tried and
(12:43):
true Christians, whatever youknow the tried and true
ecologists, the tried and trueclimatologists, will eventually
be minimized to the point wherethey can become a fringe.
And this situation and inJacksonville is even more
terrifying to me as a whiteperson because it brings up this
(13:04):
whole scenario.
He left, he left manifestos forhis dad.
He sent his dad a messagesaying watch, you know, look at
your computer.
So he put him, he told his dadwhere to go to find the
manifestos, you know, and thenhe does this whole thing of
going to a black university andwanting to, you know, shoot
people up there.
Thankfully a security guardsees him and, you know,
(13:26):
confronts him and gets him toleave the university.
But then there's video showinghim putting on his bullet proof
vest and, you know, gettinghimself gunned up.
And then he went to find alocation.
And let's think about thelocation.
It's a dollar general, forgoodness sakes, a dollar general
.
So the three people that gotkilled the 57 year old, you know
(13:47):
woman that was there, the 23year old man and a 19 year old
guy, you know, who's reallystill a kid at that level, at
that age so they're just in adollar general trying to get.
I mean, I've been in dollargenerals, dollar stores,
whatever, you know you go inthere.
This isn't high end merchandise, this is stuff that's priced at
(14:08):
levels that you know the mosteconomically challenged people
can go to and at least getsomething.
You know they can get laundrydetergent, they can get some
deals on clothing, you know, andit comes in spurts.
You know, it's not like you cannecessarily guarantee you're
going to get what you need, butyou just have to kind of keep
(14:29):
going there and shopping andsaying, oh yeah, I do need some
of this and it'll be, you know,a third of the price that you
would pay anywhere else and that.
So here they are just doingthat, just just shopping for
stuff for daily life, and someguy comes in and picks off
indiscriminately.
You know the, the, I think Imean the only thing that seemed
to be a criteria was it had tobe a black person.
(14:51):
So if you happen to be, youknow, in Latinx or you know you
happen to be a white person thatwas also looking for good deals
on things, you probably wereokay, you know, but just
shooting those people and whatis what does that take?
And you've said this before,you know where the cry of a
black man is.
You know we we as a country areare getting more and more, you
(15:13):
know, immune or in, I'm not sureyou know, kind of closing down
to hearing these messages andeven the news.
You know you can't hardly findanything on Jacksonville today.
But if that was Columbine, ifthat was a situation where you
know a black individual had comein and shot three white people,
oh my God, you can imagine thenews coverage.
(15:34):
So when people say to me well, Iwonder how many?
You know white people arekilled by black men every day.
You know well, excuse me, butyou're going to use that one as
a justification for this that weshould just allow this to
happen because you know ithappens.
Well, excuse me, but that'slike saying you know anything
absurd about?
(15:55):
Well, yeah, you know I, I wishthat wouldn't happen, but you
know this happens too to.
You know, my people, frenchpeople, French people, they get
discriminated against all thetime.
You know, come on, come on,people.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I don't get it.
We got to understand and and,yeah, we have to take away the
fact.
You know that's just a reallykill the cut the kill the
conversation, that this wasrandom.
It was not random, you know, itwas deliberate and it was
targeted.
Just as in our Paso Texas when,like you said, those those
places where you know minorityshop or where they congregate or
where they gather, you know, ofcourse, like the church in
(16:33):
South Carolina, you know, ofcourse, that gentleman, he knew
that that was a black church.
You know, in our Paso Texas,you know that was going to be in
a predominantly Latin X orLatin community, just like in
Buffalo.
You know that tops thatcommunity, you know.
And then, of course, here inJacksonville, you know and, and,
and it's like in apredominantly black community.
(16:53):
So it just I want to take awaythe fact that it it was not
random, and then, of course,with the evidence left behind in
the manifestos, but again it'slike the, the, the things that
are behind that way of thinking,you know.
Again, it's like we're talkingabout how people like, did you
(17:14):
use it?
Actually, just on the news lastnight, there was a state, a
state senator, a staterepresentative, senator,
whatever, from the state ofGeorgia talking about civil war.
Now, this is a, a stateofficial, a government employee
talking about well, you know, ifthey prosecute him in the state
(17:38):
of Georgia, when do I?
Why do I have to go get my gunsto get justice?
And it's like justice is beingserved, you know, and it's going
, and justice is a due process,you know.
So, basically, but thisgentleman is talking about going
to get guns because, let's justface it, a crime was caught and
(17:59):
called out and now it's beingprosecuted and it's going
through the process.
Yeah, you know, and and andthat's where, again, it's like
we're in a space, in a timewhere you know people very
people that say oh, we're allfor law and order, law and order
.
law and order is law and order,except when it pertains to them,
and this is the is it's.
It hurts because, again, thisis the marginalization of people
(18:23):
.
This is where right supremacykind of rains.
Now, of course, what happened?
You know all throughout historywhat we see.
You know you criticize a thing,right.
When you can't control it,you're going to criticize it,
yeah.
And when the criticism does notwork, what you're going to do,
you've got to threaten it, yeah.
That's it Don't work.
(18:44):
That's when you get physical.
That's a common human and we'reseeing that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Yeah, I don't, and so I go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
No, it's just.
We see the steps, you know.
We see these things perpetuatein different parts of the
country.
Well, there are so many ofthese instances that we just
don't hear about.
We all heard of Tulsa and somepeople may have heard of
Rosewood, Florida, but a lot ofthese things happened all across
(19:17):
Florida, Georgia, Mississippi,Alabama.
It's still happening inLouisiana, and so it's just we
just don't hear about them.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, tulsa, tulsa, the Tulsa massacre.
You know that's a, you knowlet's talk about a blemish on
American society.
That's, you know, a situationwhere you know, look up I mean,
sometimes people call it theTulsa riot it was in fact a
massacre, and you know of suchthat there, the incident that
(19:49):
you know provoked it was a blackman supposedly whistling, or
was it whistling, or just, youknow, making a lewd comment to a
white woman, and then she, youknow, went forward and just
saying you know, this black mandid this.
But he was arrested, wasn't he?
And then put in jail.
He did.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
The two were in an elevator, yep, and she, he was
accused of something.
And then of course, a bunch ofhe was arrested.
And then of course a bunch ofwhite men say let's go and get
them and lynch them, and allthis and that, and the other
than the black men in thecommunity like no, we're not
going to let this happen.
Like this, Right, you know, andso in.
And then there was basically inthat heated stance, right,
(20:31):
let's just use the analogysomebody dropped a pen and,
regardless of what side droppedthe pen, boom, there it was.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
And then, of course, then they, then they wouldn't
get planes to bomb the place,and everything else Fire,
incendiary bombs, yeah, withbiplanes, you know this is how,
you know that was not veryadvanced.
They're hanging out the theside of a biplane and dropping,
you know, small, essentiallygrenades, you know, onto houses.
I mean, fires started.
You can go through, you know,tulsa today and see streets
(21:03):
where there's just steps up tohouses, concrete steps that led
up to the lawns, the front lawns, the front sidewalks of houses
that burned to the ground, youknow, and those have been left
there.
The land hasn't been sold butleft there as a testament to
this thing happened.
They, you know, can do grounds,sonar, where a freeway was built
(21:24):
, but you can still do groundsonar, and find that there are
bodies after bodies after bodiesthat are buried in a location
that I'm, you know people had toknow that that was a mass grave
and yet they built anexpressway over it.
You know, I mean you, just, Ican't even get my head around
the fact of how, you know awfulthese things are and yet we,
(21:48):
just, we don't want to teachthat.
You know, we don't want peopleto know about that.
And if you, you can't even takeAP Black history anymore
because we don't want, we don'twant white people feeling bad
about.
You know things like that thathappened so far ago in in our
history.
And let me tell you, folks, asa white guy, I do feel bad.
I do feel bad that that stuffhappens, but not because I'm a
(22:10):
white person, because ithappened to people.
It happened to people whetherit's Kosovo or Israel, or
Palestine, or Kansas orJacksonville, florida.
This is people doing horriblethings to people because they're
allowing themselves to believea lie that that other person is
(22:34):
other than me, is different thanme, because their skin is black
, the religion is different,they're.
You know the thing that theypractice on Sunday mornings.
I don't understand it's.
You know Muslim stuff and we'reChristian country and whatever
you got you got all kinds ofreasons there that are fed to us
like corn flakes to feel youknow that that that's somehow
(22:57):
justified to otherize a person,where you can walk in to a
dollar general and just startshooting people up because
you've been indoctrinated into aline of thought that says
that's okay.
In fact, that's not only okay,but that's your responsibility
to do that to save America.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And man, that's.
That was deep brother.
And one last thing about theTulsa situation, of course, like
you know the risk, the numberswere greatly misrepresented.
You know, of course, like thesurvivors and the descendants of
the survivors all say the samething, that there were trucks of
bodies taken out of there.
(23:41):
In the course, like when youtalk about how big Black Wall
Street was and how long it was,and then the surrounding
communities they say, oh, 300people were the survivors and
the descendants of the survivors.
Truckloads of people taken,dead bodies, dead Black bodies
(24:02):
taken out of there.
Yeah, but yes and just goingyeah, and so the numbers are
greatly misrepresented.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
So multiply by a factor of 10, basically, if you
want to know, you know somewhereclose to what the numbers were
and you can look at thepopulation that was there before
that happened and then what youwere just saying how, how we
were talking earlier, yeah, andhow we were saying just a second
ago, how, like you know, thethought process behind
Jacksonville is is just bad.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And, of course, if we think about that particular
culture, that white supremacistculture and you just touched on
it how, yes, that action was amanifestation of what is, but
what about the other things thatit so greatly affects?
You know, like this whitesupremacist type of culture, it
affects, you know, the variousoppressions far as voter
(24:55):
suppression and oppression,right, capitalism, sexism, class
, like you said, race, gender,religion, age, it, it, it, this,
this, that particular cultureaffects us in every single area
of life and we really have toget to the bottom of it.
And then it's going to be hardto do, because some people are
(25:18):
going to fight this thing tillthey die, and it's like they're
going to go to their graveshating and it's like, and then,
of course, these same people,with this hate in their hearts,
save their Christian.
And that's why it's so hard forpeople to understand
Christianity today, because ofthe actions that are being
exhibited.
You know Christ, you know he,you know we are to exhibit his
(25:39):
culture and manifest his nature,which Jesus.
He loved people, he forgavepeople and he gave.
You know we don't see a lot ofthat in the Christian culture
today.
You know, and that's where it'sgetting hard.
I won't, I hate saying this,but it's harder and harder to
(26:00):
disciple people, or it's likeyou have to go that much.
You have to, like, say to a newbeliever you really have to
hold their hand that much morefor them to get a full
understanding of the Bible, youknow, and before you let them go
off on their own to start totry and study, because you have
to walk them through that muchmore to explain a lot of the
(26:21):
things that are happening today.
Yeah, yeah, you think about howit lines up with the word.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, think about how .
You know, the people that Jesusgot angry with.
The people that he took issuewith were not the Mary
Magdalene's, you know, the taxcollectors, the you know the
folks that were just getting by,you know, were surviving.
He took issue with the peoplethat had it all figured out.
(26:48):
They were the rule book makers,they were the rule book
interpreters, they were the onesthat got to decide who was
accepted and who was banishedand who was, you know, it was
ostracized or corrected.
You know that that's the person, that's the mindset, that's the
level of humanity that so manyof us that call ourselves
(27:13):
Christians and I'd be one of thefirst ones to say that I can
call myself a car and go sit ina garage.
That does not make me a car.
So I can call myself aChristian and go to church
regularly, but that does notmake a person Christian.
So we have to, you know,separate that from a Christian
as a follower of Christ.
(27:35):
A Christian is someone thatreally has looked at who Jesus
was, what he did and says Ibelieve that this man is on to
something here.
And then, you know, you startto really analyze and say, okay,
well, he isn't just a greatteacher.
Because if this guy said whathe says, what they say he said
and we've got, you know, recordsof what he said that are within
(27:57):
decades of when he was alive,you know, like in some cases
less than 20 years the existingfragments, so we have a pretty
good handle on he said this, itwas recorded that he said this
and this is what he said.
And you have a phrase like I amthe way and the truth and the
life.
No man comes to the father, butthrough me, somebody that says
(28:18):
that.
Folks, you got to come to gripswith the fact that that's not
just a teacher.
That's either a liar, a lunaticor who he says he is.
So come to grips with that.
And if you want to believe he'sa liar, if you want to believe
he's a lunatic, okay, but callit that.
You know, just understand thatI don't think he's a great
teacher.
And when somebody says, oh yeah, he's just one of the prophets,
(28:39):
nope, I'm sorry, can't buy that.
The guy's a lunatic, that's youknow.
At least you're beingconsistent at that point, you
know.
Or the guy's a complete liar,because nobody could say that
stuff, or you say you know, Ican understand how you believe
that.
But I've looked at these versesand I can't reconcile them as
anything other than liar,lunatic or who he says he is.
(29:00):
And from my experience my life,my walk I have to say he is who
he says he is.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And you made a.
You just you made a great pointright when he, he said who did
Jesus' most scalding wordsagainst it?
What?
The people of the poor right,the people of the lower life in
that time?
But it was against thePharisees and Sanctuces and
those guys.
And then, and those are thevery guys that, like you said,
(29:31):
they called it like oh, he has a, he, he's dangerous, he has a
demon, it's like.
No, exactly.
But also think about this andeven the Bible even tells us
that a lot of the Sadducees andPharisees believed, but they
would not confess them openlybefore fear being kicked out of
the synagogue.
(29:51):
And so look at today, you know,of course there's a because, in
the grand scheme of things,there's a small group of people
that that hate, like that right,but there's an even larger
group that is against that thing, but they won't say anything
for fear of being alienatedthemselves.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I was thinking of that this morning, how Martin
Luther King towards the very end, I think the night before
Memphis happened you know wherehe was assassinated, that he
talked about that he, he notonly realized that there was a
lot further to go, you know,with the road that he talked
about, the things, the visionthat he had when he had his I
dream of, I dream speech.
(30:33):
You know and you know thethings that the, the the
platitudes, the vision, theaspirations that that are talked
about in that speech, which isstill today one of the most
inspiring speeches and is quotedby people on the right and the
left to say you know, yeah, Ialign with Martin Luther King.
I, I believe that you know,we're going to judge people by
(30:54):
the content of their character.
Okay, all right.
So then he gets to the end ofhis career, the end of his time
on the earth, and he says hebelieves that there there was a
lot more work to be done and thething that he feared the most
was that moderate America thepeople you're just alluding to,
moderate America was was notenergized enough to really
(31:19):
confront and do the work, theheavy lifting Cause.
You know when you're talkingabout, you know, folks, when
we're talking about white peoplefeeling bad about what's
happening to black people, justtry to think about in terms.
People are doing this to otherpeople and why.
Why do I constantly getredirected to feeling that
(31:40):
that's somehow justifiable?
And it's because moderateAmerica wants to stay moderate
America.
And when we're talking heavylifting, like dealing with these
kinds of topics, it's likeexercise.
You know people can say, oh man,I need to lose some weight, I
need to diet some more, I needto eat better.
(32:02):
You know, and you know you needto do that.
But you know what?
Oh, oh God, yeah, projectrunway is on Right after I get
done watching project runway, orright after I get done watching
.
You know desperate housewives,whatever your thing is, that
you're really into the show thatyou really like, or the thing
that you have, a game you wantto watch.
(32:22):
You know there are so manydistractions that keep us from
doing what we know we should do,and that's get on the bike.
Or you know get.
You know don't stop buyingDoritos at the store and start
buying, you know, some apples.
You know those things are notfun, but they are the only way.
You know we can't either.
(32:43):
Or there are people that try tosell pills and whatnot, that,
oh, this will turn 20 pounds offat in one week.
You know, come on, come on.
You know the only way to getinto a healthy shape is to do
the hard work that it takes toget there.
You got to.
You got to realize you're goingto be hungry.
You got to realize you're goingto hurt.
You got to realize that somedays you're not going to want to
(33:04):
do it and you got to pushthrough it anyways.
That's the only way.
And this is the same darn thing.
On a spiritual level, on anemotional level, this is America
confronting all of usconfronting that.
This is not okay.
This is not who we want to be.
We do believe that all men, allpeople, are created equal, all,
(33:27):
all of them.
So that being our you know,fundamental belief, as our
country, as Americans, aspatriots, we have to do
something that aligns with that,and one of them is to stand up
and say no, no more, no morekilling because you're black, no
(33:47):
more killing because you'reMuslim, no more killing because
you're Christian, no morekilling because you're an old
fart.
You don't know what you'retalking about, mister.
So you know, make room for theyoung people of the world.
No more, no more.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
And that's where the attacks are coming again, again
against the visa.
This created culture warbecause people are in a space
where because, like, let's justface it, you know a lot of
people in this country like, say, people of means, whether they
are white or black or whatever,they insulate themselves with
what they want and desire, theirlifestyle, their way of life.
(34:26):
They don't have to deal withanything outside of what they
don't want to deal with, and sothings happen.
Or when they are, when we talkabout social, racial, economic
injustices, the first thing thatwell, it doesn't affect me, or
it doesn't affect my children,it doesn't affect me because
they're so deeply insulated,like we're talking about that
moderate, middle of the road,american right.
(34:48):
And it's like, if you can, it'slike you can no longer just
stand and sit by and say, ohwell, it doesn't affect me,
because down the road it will.
If it ain't affecting you now,it's going to affect your
grandchildren, you know.
And of course.
And then, with the way thethings are going now, they're
going to be forced to pick aside, almost, instead of us
coming together in unity andjust really trying to come up
(35:12):
with solutions.
People are being because we'reseeing it right now, people are
being forced to pick sides and,of course, like, when we talk
about picking sides, right, it'slike either you are of, let's
just call it out, you know, ofcourse, white supremacy has
masked itself in different forms.
You know, of course, like youknow, when we start talking
(35:32):
about equity and inclusion,right, people saying, oh, my
kids are being made to feel bad.
No, and that's just the under,that's just a surface argument
to a deeper issue, because,again, white supremacy goes deep
.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
it goes deep, deep, deep you know, and it's like
when we're talking about thosethings like like that.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
It's like it's, it has masked itself.
You know, gerrymanderinggerrymandering as an example.
You know, of course, that goalbecause it's about oppressing.
It's about oppressing aspecific group of people, to
choke them out and take awaytheir voice.
And so, when we're talkingabout these things, it's
(36:13):
designed, it's deliberatelydesigned, to take away the voice
and even the lives of the quoteunquote minorities in this
country, because some peoplehave exalted themselves and feel
that they are superior or feellike this is theirs, when that's
(36:33):
not the case.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, it's really easy to think gerrymandering is
no big deal when you're lookingat a map with lines that are
driven, you know, drawn veryneatly.
But then when you go to thoseplaces and you look at the
streets that are beingdelineated as the places where
the line is drawn, just you know, google map it, because Google
map generally you can at leastsee, you know what, what streets
we're talking about, whathouses are on that street.
(36:56):
You'll you'll get a pretty goodidea pretty quickly of why that
street was chosen instead ofthe one three blocks over east
or west or north or south.
You know it's in and I'm notthe one to sit there and say you
know well, Republicans are badbecause they did that.
That's been being done for along time.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
It's all about power, you know like when they built
the, when they built theprojects, the history of Chicago
, when you really read up on it,in like with a Mayor Daley at
the time and him and a bunch ofother guys, they knew what was
going to happen.
Like you said, this thing hasbeen in play for a really long
time.
(37:35):
Even when they, before theybuilt the projects, they knew
what the intent was to do thisto devalue that land for to sell
it later.
So it'll go down and we seethat right now, 2023, everywhere
that I, almost everywhere thatI used to know no longer exists.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And another piece of wonderful news the last female
black woman female black, yeah,of course, a female woman I, the
last black woman that was theCEO of a S&P 500 corporation or
an S&P company that was listedon it, resigned yesterday or the
(38:18):
day before.
So you know, for there to justbe one African American woman,
you know, serving in that hugeconstruct, that ought to tell
you to something aboutfundamentally, what we've talked
about over and over again.
It's not black and white, it'snot, you know, brown skin and
yellow skin.
It's haves and have nots.
The haves have an agenda thatthey are, you know, seeking to
(38:43):
accomplish and further, and wehave to stop getting caught up
in this.
You know nonsense of, you knowattacking, you know the
peripheral argument or theperipheral, you know the thing
that's being set up as the issueand realize that that that is
(39:04):
the same as if we were fishingand you know we're trying to do
things to get the fish to gatherin a polluted place of the lake
.
You know you can say you knowall the.
This is a great fishing spot,it's always been a great fishing
spot, but if it's all thesudden next to a drainage, ditch
, for you know a company that'sspewing stuff in your great
(39:25):
fishing spot just got turnedinto, you know, a horrible place
to fish.
You know, in some ways, thatthat's kind of the way we do
things.
We keep on, you know, turningfertile ground like the civil
rights movement into a putridmess by coloring it in ways that
make people not want to touchit.
(39:47):
It's going to make me feel bad.
They're trying to make you know.
It seemed like I'm a racist.
I'm not a racist.
I have black friends, I, youknow whatever that.
That stuff, those narrativeswe've talked about that before
right, those narratives are verycarefully chosen, strategically
chosen to keep us from thinkingabout the real issues Thought
out yeah, Is it okay for peopleto do these things to people?
(40:11):
Dude, we're already at, like youknow, 50 minutes.
As always, you know we getgoing on something.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Closing thoughts.
Yeah, just when we were justtalking there, you mentioned
about the haves and have nots.
Right, and of course, the havesare using the have, one group
of have nots against anothergroup of have nots, saying that
these other group of have notsare trying to take away what you
have.
And of course, this is aplaybook.
You know, when Nixon started touse this playbook a member, he
(40:40):
was from California, but hestarted to really target the
people of the South, saying, hey, this, that and the other.
And we see that same playbookBecause, like you hear, like,
say, donald Trump he used theword we, he's like, he has no
place in the South, he would ifhe had a choice.
He, he lives in Mar-a-Lago, outof the way.
(41:03):
But again, it's like we talkedabout this before how, like, say
, the people that are inPositions of power are using
other people as pawns to executetheir strategy and their plan.
And again, it's like, when wecan really reach that other
group of people and say, hey,when you really get that, the
grand scheme of things, we arethe same exact, you know, and
(41:24):
like we say we talked about thisbefore how people are boating
against their own best interestsbecause of this thing, because,
again, this thing is maxed tolook like something different.
But that's why we're havingthese conversations.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
So let's think our hearts when you talk about the
that name that you justmentioned and we say that he
represents me.
He does great things for thecountry.
You know, I, I will, people canbelieve that.
You know, I look at it andthink, okay, I, you know, that's
from your perspective, youthink that's a really good thing
, but I want to challenge people, and you know those who are
(42:00):
listening that would never votethat way.
Just, you know, you know, keepestablishing, keep relating,
keep trying to have Interactionswith people that are, you know,
ardent Trump supporters or areon that middle of the line where
I, I can't vote for biden sol,have to vote for trump, whatever
.
Just think about one thing if,if he was, you know, wanting to
(42:21):
be the head of the, you know,cio or the cf, what is it?
The truckers union, afl, cio,right, if he, if he was trying
to do that, or if he was tryingto set himself up as a
preeminent mechanic and Hisbackground was as a furniture
salesman, you know, or hisbackground was, as you know, a
(42:43):
man who, you know, our carpetsalesman, you know, a carpet
beggar.
Look that one up.
Um, if that was his profession,would the those organizations,
the afl cio members, wouldpeople that were machinist
mechanics, would they let thatperson represent them?
And of course not, because thatperson doesn't have any
(43:04):
understanding of what issuesthey deal with on a day to day
basis.
They may say they do and theymay be able to speak, to speak,
but you're, you're just a commonsense would tell you.
That's not the guy that needsto represent us.
We need somebody that has beenwalking in our, our shoes, that
has lived the kind of life wehave to live to understand why
(43:25):
this pay raise, why whatever, isso important and necessary for
us.
So just look at both biden,look at both bitum and trump and
look at their lifestyles andplease, please, please, tell me
and tell yourself how, how doesthat person in that lifestyle
(43:46):
Understand the majority ofamericans and what we deal with
on a day in, day out basis, how?
And yet we are electing them,we are forced to elect one of
them to represent all of us andto make decisions for all of us.
You got to think about that.
You got to think about thatgoing beyond.
I've always voted democrat.
(44:06):
My mom and dad were democrats,you know.
I believe in the republicanagenda, that he does great
things for the country.
You got to think beyond thosenarratives and think about who
out there.
Is there anyone?
I don't even know if there is acandidate out there of 343
million people in this country,is there a candidate anywhere
(44:27):
that the vast majority of uscould get behind?
Because he's lincoln, he's theguy that you know grew up in a
lean to in kentucky and heunderstands what it is, you know
to to go without.
He's john bainer Bainer, whoyou know grew up in a house, a
small house, and you know kidsand his family slept in the
(44:48):
drawers of their you knowdressers because there wasn't
room and there for everybodyhave their own bed.
You know where.
Where are those people that wecould all get behind and say you
know this guy is a politician,but he still.
Or this woman is a politicianbut she still.
She understands the day in, dayout battles that you and I have
.
Let's find that person.
(45:10):
Let's stop playing the narrativethat these you know the multi
million dollar corporations thatfund what is necessary to get
you know on the ticket even Um,you know how do we change that
around that?
That should be the core thingwe talk about, because we don't
want to see people walking intodollar generals anymore and
(45:31):
shooting Folks just because theyhappen to be in the wrong place
at the wrong time and theyhappen to be the wrong color
skin from that person'sperspective.
And I'm not arguing gun controlor any of that.
You know that those aredifferent discussions.
Guns don't kill people.
People kill people.
So, and people kill peoplebecause they're in a mindset
that tells them it's okay tokill people and that's what
(45:54):
we're getting at.
That's what jacksonville shouldrepresent, has to represent to
all of us.
Is that?
Is it okay for A person to dothat to those people?
Because that 19 year old youngman is never coming home again,
that 57 year old mom and I don'tknow grandma she's never coming
(46:14):
home again.
Is that okay?
Is that okay for somebody to dothat?
And if it's not okay which Ibelieve the vast majority of us
would say no, of course that'snot okay.
And what are you and I To makesure that it at least decrease?
We're not going to wipe thatout, because the human heart is
just too wicked and deceitfuland you know We'll hang on to
(46:36):
the vestiges of it's.
You know what I want mentality.
But yeah, god, we ought tostart making progress to that.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yep, and just, uh, like, just to end, like what
you're just saying, let's justlike we said that that course
the action of itself is notRight at all, but the thought
process, the motive, the intentIs, you know, just think about
those things.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
So here we've been talking again frame of reference
coming together.
I'm rawl a brush.
You are young man, what is your?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
It's one home and see you that's right.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And I call him young man because he's about 10 years
younger than I am, so I get tosay I'm the old guy.
So, but in reality we're bothold guys, right?
That's just the way it is.
So my friend always, alwaysenergizes me.
Talking with you, I appreciate,um, I appreciate your candor, I
appreciate your perspective.
I, I, I, just I.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
The more we talk, the more I value our friendship and
absolutely, and uh, that is uhso mutual, uh rawl.
And again, uh, I, I just uhAttributed our relationship to
just uh me is just personalgrowth and you know just uh to,
to really be able to talk tosomeone.
That does not necessarily wedon't have to agree on
(47:55):
everything, right, but it's likebeing willing to, just being
willing To hear it out.
And then it's like, oh wow,yeah, I never thought of that, I
never saw it that way, and so I, I, just I thank god for the
relationship, brother.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, you know just and like we keep building
ourselves.
This is our brand is I'm just aold white guy and You're a less
old black guy?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
I can't that's it less old yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I don't live in a place with gold seats.
I live in, you know I grow.
You have a small house that I'mtrying to get painted.
You know, right now that's my.
My goal for the rest of thesummer is try to get one more
wall painted on it.
So I have no pretense otherthan I can tell you, from my
perspective, this man across thescreen from me, and twan
hallman, is the real deal.
(48:43):
Um, I hope, I hope he continuesto see me that way and that I
continue to be that way.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
The you are and you will.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Folks, thanks for listening, thanks for being a
part of the discussion, you know.
Please go to www f oruk4sockcom.
Leave a comment, leave amessage, leave an argument,
leave a perspective, give yourframe of reference to the whole
thing so we can keep thedialogue going from more than
you know, more than a couple ofguys perspective.
(49:13):
This should be a world dialogue.
Um so, appreciate you listening, appreciate you being with me,
my friend.
Uh all right, until next time,all right.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, have a great one.
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