June 30, 2023 • 50 mins
Can we truly revolutionize the water industry? Join us for a captivating discussion with Riggs Eckelberry, a nationally renowned entrepreneur with a mission to transform the way we manage, treat, and appreciate water. In this conversation, Riggs shares his journey from the high tech world to the water industry, revealing the challenges he faced and the importance of disrupting an industry unprepared for change.
Together, we explore the psychology and spirituality of water, its preciousness, and why we often take it for granted. We also dive into the topics of decentralized water systems, population growth, and deglobalization and how these factors impact water treatment infrastructure. Riggs shares his insights on how businesses and large water consumers are investing in their own water treatment solutions, as well as the potential of tokenizing payouts to create a water marketplace.
Finally, we debate the effectiveness of the Biden infrastructure bill in addressing water infrastructure issues and the reality of the allocated funding. We discuss alternative solutions, like unburdening infrastructure and taking the load off remotely, and how the Gates Foundation is helping to convert sewage and develop clean water supplies in third-world countries. Don't miss this fascinating conversation on the future of the water industry and the importance of investing in this indispensable resource.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, welcome to another episode of Frame of
Reference Profiles in Leadership.
And today I have anotheropportunity to interview someone
that I have never talked withbefore, and that is always
exciting because it means Ihonestly learn more that way
than I do with people that I'vetalked to multiple times,
because you get in kind of a rutof asking the same old, same
(00:20):
old, and today is a topic toothat I've never had.
Anyone with a specificbackground in this, if you've
looked at the show before, we'vetalked with Kurt Meini and you
know other currentconservationists Charlie Luthan,
over the years, and certainlyboth of those gentlemen have a
lot of interest in water and theconservation of the same.
(00:44):
But my guest today is RiggsEcclberry, and he is a
nationally renowned, so I can'tsay words today.
Let's start over with that one.
Riggs Ecclberry is a nationallyrenowned entrepreneur dedicated
to revolutionizing I just shouldgive up talking, and, riggs,
you can do it all, okayRevolutionizing the water
(01:06):
industry, which has reached acritical breaking point in
recent years, despite beingessential to the planet's
survival.
So I think we could say if youdon't know about Riggs Ecclberry
, you're not all wet because youshould know, isn't that?
huh, you like?
I've been thinking about thatone for a while, riggs.
So he is also qualified tobring change to an outdated and
(01:29):
overrun industry, which I wantto find out more about that.
But thank you, riggs, fortaking time out of your busy
schedule to talk with me today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's a great pleasure , thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So, riggs, as you know, we talked a little bit
beforehand about the way that Ilike to do my modus operandi, if
you will And we like to startout always with a thing called
my favorite things.
One of these days I'll get therights to that song and we can
overlay Julie Andrews doing awonderful rendition of it.
I don't have enough money forthat quite yet, but we'll get
(02:03):
there someday, i'm sure, anyway.
So I'm just going to throw outsome things there.
It's very Roshaktian You justsay whatever comes to your mind
first, and if you have tostruggle a little bit to think
that's even better.
So, because it means you'redigging deep.
I always like that.
So let's start with somethingeasy.
All right, how about a favoritecolor?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's blue.
Not only do I have I'm stuckwith wearing blue because of at
least my eyes used to be blue, Idon't know if they are anymore
But also I just love the oceanand spent many years as a both
an amateur and a professionalsailor, And to me, the water.
(02:46):
As a big skier sailor, I lovewater, So I would say blue.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, well, that's consistent, if nothing else,
right?
So how about a favorite bookBesides yours?
you can't, you can't use one ofyours.
That's just too self serving.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So well, i have to say, the one that I, that I try
to you know, live by is calledinside the tornado, and that is
a book that was a successor toan equally famous book called
Cross and the chasm.
Now, the whole idea of insidethe tornado, by Jeffrey Moore, a
(03:25):
just an amazing, amazing book,is that it characterizes the
high tech product lifecycle,which starts at the very
beginning with the crazies, thepeople who actually use the
Newton PDA, those people, andthen it moves to the strategic
(03:48):
buyer, the buyer that is tryingto get an edge on competition.
And then it does this, itcrosses this chasm, which is the
big challenge to enter, wascalled the tornado, which is
every adopts it right, and thenand then it moves to a, to a
sort of a conservative stage,and then the back end is the
(04:08):
skeptics, who are always, alwaystheir last.
Now it I came up through hightech, you know, starting in the
80s, and I love it.
I believe that everything isbehaving like a high tech
lifecycle these days.
So things are moving faster andfaster all the time, and I came
to the water industry as a hightech guy.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay, does that?
you know, that concerns mesometimes, that we are moving so
tornadically, if you that's aword, because with that that, if
you say the increasing violenceeven of that whirlwind we seem
to I don't know how to describeit except to say it seems like
(04:52):
we lose some critical things inthat maelstrom, you know not the
least of which is, perhaps, youknow, decency and civility.
You know, because it is soquick, you have to make a
decision now, now, now, now, now.
And with that mentality it'svery difficult to take a pause
(05:12):
and just enjoy the ocean, right,you know to, to let yourself be
steeped in the moment of isn'tthis a wonderful world, and
shouldn't we take care of someof these things?
Do you find that as a challenge?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I think you're 100% right And we are just in this
constant spin cycle that youknow.
Some would say it was it'sintentional to basically get us
just to work all the time.
But, regardless, you're right.
Now that doesn't mean you knowwhat I'm really getting at is
(05:49):
high tech techniques really arevery, very good for disruption,
right?
What I found when I ended thewater industry was an industry
that was not prepared for change.
They like everything's fine,we're going to.
You know, it's a similarattitude to the one you most
people have with the watercoming out of their faucet or
flushing out of the toilet,which is everything's fine.
But it wasn't.
(06:10):
And so there was an industrythat's very hard to change And
in many ways, in many ways,rightfully so, because they have
a public health mission and soforth.
But I had to go and find what.
Would you know, what was thepoint of leverage to make the
fulcrum, to make this changehappen?
And that's where my knowledgeof destructive marketing gained
(06:35):
through 10 years of going up.
At one point I went from beingan entrepreneur to being in the
corporate space And for 10 yearsI basically worked my way up to
being what I consider, you know, a good sea level executive,
and it was all about how can Ibreak the existing situation,
(06:56):
whether it's we're strugglingwith old, outdated, bad code, or
are we into a great product butnobody knows about it, or any
variety of things.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I think that effective disruption is a good
thing, and it strikes me to thatin Wisconsin, where I live,
we've had a number of tornadoes.
So, and even throughout therest of the United States, you
find that that tornado comesthrough, it's very disruptive,
and yet the towns that choose torebuild, they often come back
(07:27):
stronger.
They come back having learnedsome important lessons about not
only how to build things better, but find out which things
really really matter in life.
That's very true.
So perhaps there's an analogythere.
not that I want to live throughtornado, i'm not saying that
it's just.
but you're right, disruptionsare oftentimes the best way of
(07:49):
learning to what about how?
about a favorite quote?
And hopefully that's easy.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, i I think this is something that has stood the
test of time for me, and I hadthis as a young man in my wallet
for years which is the authorof The Little Prince wrote this
is Nick and looks very tired.
It's just really a relationshipof men.
There's one true wealth and itis human relations.
(08:16):
Right, and I'll tell yousomething.
He wrote that in a book calledtell the zone, land of Men And
what.
I think.
That's the point essentially,every everything that we're
doing is about that.
The very good quote by WarrenBuffett that I just love, and
(08:38):
that is I've never known anybodythat was basically kind, that
died without friends.
I've known plenty of peoplewith money who died without
friends, including their family.
So, you know, pursuit of moneyis great, pursuit of, you know,
paying attention to lifestyleand what I'm wearing in the
dollar, that's all great, butthe real magic, i believe, is
what we're doing right here.
(09:00):
Right, that's, that's it, andeverything else is kind of
besides the point.
Even if it is water and thesource of life, it does come
back to human relationships.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's interesting.
You picked that book toobecause my brother, years ago,
gave me a copy of The LittlePrince And I should find that,
because I remember he wrotesomething in the preface to it
of, you know, sharing it with mebecause he had found that it it
served him well during his lifeand hope that it would do the
same for me.
And you know, sonne X Parry isjust a, you know, wonderfully
(09:30):
charming author, and I forgetwho did the illustrations for
that, but, you know, managed tocapture the simplistic beauty
very, very well.
So reminds me we need the poo.
So kind of along that line,right, how about?
do you have a favorite food?
Everyone has a favorite food.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I hope So well, it depends A favorite food to eat
or to make.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Either you choose.
You're the guest.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's the difference .
I, over the years, evolved areal talent with Resort, and the
reason I like risotto is it's adish that you build over time
and you can often do it withfriends around and they're
watching you build this risottoand then they're going to see it
.
Unfortunately, you know, a fewmonths ago I went into a keto
(10:21):
diet, so no more rice, and soRight now I'm in.
last night, my wife and I had atrue grass fed ribeye that was
done on the barbecue and it wasamazing.
Oh, really good clean food likethat.
Now, another great dish that Ilove is ossobuco.
(10:45):
Okay, kill me now.
That is the best.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, the best.
I have to try that.
That's not something I have had, although the ribeye steak
thing I am right with you onthat one.
So there's nothing like a steakon a grill to make a day happy.
I usually require that for mybirthday and or father's day, or
both, so the family doesn'teven have to ask anymore Dad,
(11:10):
what do you want?
So what kind of steak do youwant, dad?
So how about last question?
How about?
is there a favorite place thatyou like to go to when you just
need to kind of clear your head?
A favorite thing?
it may be a thing that you doto an activity, but that just is
a centering thing for you orplace.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Wow that's fascinating.
Yeah, I would say that the mostinteresting thing to do is to
sit down.
My wife and I both work veryhard She has a school But to eat
, to sit down and have dinnertogether and just just quietly
(11:53):
talk about whatever that to me,just recharges me tremendously.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Why I had a friend that just was talking about that
, that he is a psychiatrist andhe had said that we were kind of
both reflecting on our livesand we're both in our 60s and
thinking about you know all thethings that when we first knew
each other we wish we would havedone or that we saw ourselves
potentially doing.
And both of us came to the samerealization that, you know, all
of those dreams that you havewhen you're young don't really
(12:22):
match up to the little thingsthat happen over the course of
your life that really impact us,that really help to form who we
are, and that I thought thatwas really it was interesting
that he and I had come to thatsame realization.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I think you got to find value in the small
things, because that's most oflife, right.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, yeah, very much so.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So you know.
but if you want to know wherephysically I go to, unwind is,
I'm an avid skier And that wayfor years and years.
in fact, for my 40th birthday,when I ski bumped, I dropped my
entire career, which at the timewas I was working in film And
people who were coming up thegondola while I was in my chef's
(13:06):
uniform at Keystone and theyfind out that I had taken a
break from film They go no,don't do it.
You got to go back right away.
You lose it all.
But I it was a blowout winterfor me And these days, because
eventually you know, you ski,you ski, you ski, you ski.
Well, what else do you do whileyou start to teach kids?
(13:28):
And so my wife's school kids gowith us to the mountains twice,
usually once or twice a year,And I love being the guy who
take.
Come on, let me show you how todo a double black diamond, and
we survived it.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, you're leaving a legacy right Of people that
got turned on to skiing by yourpassion for it, That is.
that is no matter what thedomain is.
that's a wonderful thing.
So, Riggs, you know, I have tosay to Riggs Echelberry, it
sounds like we should be talkingin a British accent.
So today I have RiggsEchelberry with me.
Professor, Riggs Echelberry,Where did that name come from?
(14:09):
I have to know.
Is that a nickname or was it ashortened version of a longer
name, Riggs alone?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
My full name is Tenor T-E-N-E-R.
Riggs, echelberry Junior.
Okay, and so my dad was knownas Tenor and I was known as
Riggs.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Right.
So when I'm, usually when Ideal with officialdom and with
you know, the hospitals orwhatever they call it, hello,
tenor and I go.
Who's that?
My dad passed away a few yearsago, so I no longer bother with
the Junior, but what they are istheir family name.
(14:46):
So Tenor was a family name fromFrance and through via Ireland.
And then Riggs, you're right,was an English family name that
was in the family.
Echelberry is German, okay, itcomes from South Germany, okay.
So, and then there's a wholeother side, which is my mother's
(15:06):
side, which is, you know, fromCuba and Spain and Colombia,
which is the whole of the world,okay.
So, you know, i'm going to stirit up.
I'm a good mix.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Wow.
So you have Irish, german andFrench in your name.
That happens to be the threenationalities that I have in my
actual genetic background.
My dad.
Dad was full French.
Mom was half French, a quarterGerman and quarter Irish, so she
always used to think of herselfas pure Irish, though, and that
was always a point ofcontention.
(15:36):
You know the old saying.
You know there are only twotypes of people in the world
Those that are Irish and thosethat wish they were, and I'd say
, yeah, mom.
There's also those that areglad they ain't.
So she didn't like that toomuch.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
There's a joke about you know Vermonters.
This family moves to Vermontfrom New York And after a winter
of being there and livingthrough the snow and all the so
forth, the wife says to istalking to a localist.
She says, well, i guess we'rereal Vermonters.
And the guy says, well, my, mycat had her kittens in the oven.
(16:15):
that does not make them muffins.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well, as we always say too, that you know you can
put yourself in a garage andcall yourself a car, but that
doesn't make you a car, So butany who So Riggs.
I am fascinated about the, thework that you have ended up
doing, and we talked a littlebit before we even started the,
the actual recording about mycoming into this and realizing.
(16:43):
You know, to my own shame, thatone of the issues I think we
have and you know at least Ipersonally have with the topic
of water is that it is soneglected because we have so
much of it.
And yet you know, if you go outto Arizona or you know
California or places wherethey're struggling, and you know
(17:04):
ringing the last bits of theColorado River out, you know to
get by, and you know strugglingbecause they can't have their
lawns be as green as they wouldlove to them to be.
You know, whatever the crisisof the day is with water, you
know I I I'm kind of in a wholedifferent world because I grew
up three blocks from LakeMichigan in Milwaukee And you
(17:24):
know we we never thought toomuch about it because there was
plenty of it there.
That you know we just at thattime is, scooped it up from the
lake and did a little bit ofwater treatment and it was fine.
And yet it is so critical, youknow the so critical that you
cannot live.
You know you can go months, ormore, over a month, without food
(17:45):
, but you can't go more thanthree, four days without water.
So why do you think that is?
Why are we so reluctant to grabahold of the preciousness of
water and use it, as I want tosay, sacredly, as we ought,
because it is?
it's a, you know, a gift thatthe farmers that I know in our
(18:07):
community talk about.
You know, never curse the rainbecause they, they remember
times when they go throughsevere droughts and you know
what impact that has, not onlyunder livelihood but on
everything around them.
And yet we're like oh, rainyday.
I was that coming from.
Have you looked at thepsychology or the spirituality
(18:29):
of that?
Is that what drove you intothis Is?
somebody has to make adifference and make this better.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, how I got into it was completely asked
backwards, because I, you know,in brief, my my story was that,
as I said, i finally got intothe corporate world and 10 years
later I was, i was, i felt Iwas qualified to become a CEO,
having also been in, you know,prior to that, a ship captain
and business owner.
(18:56):
Blah, blah, blah.
And this fund agreed with me.
But they said we're not doinghigh tech anymore, we're doing
green, and we think algae is thenext big thing for biofuels.
And so we launched a companyoriginally called Origin Oil,
which should mean, you know,algae.
It's petroleum doesn't comefrom dinosaurs, it comes from
algae.
There are not enough dinosaursout there to make it all fossil
(19:20):
fuel.
So the the idea of algae forbiofuel was so powerful that I
found myself, you know, gettingtremendous media coverage And I
was on TV a lot and so forth.
The problem is that frackingcame along and depressed the
price of all so much that itjust wasn't viable to run a
company making biofuel at $120 abarrel when oil was at 40 or 50
(19:46):
.
So we pivoted into water asmore of a like well, what can we
do with our technology, whichis an extraction technology?
And we figured out okay, youknow sewage, you know that works
, and so we went with that.
More as you know, alternateapplication for the tech that we
had And and that's where welearned that water is is its own
(20:10):
thing.
Now why?
Well, the main thing, it's aproblem of I think it's a
problem of generations ofinfrastructure.
Let's take, for example, phonesright.
Africa never bothered to go tolandlines, it just went straight
to cell phones And, in a way,america our adoption of
(20:31):
broadband and so forth was heldup by having landlines right.
So you're held up by a legacyinfrastructure.
Similarly, we have an energygrid that only talks one way It
just pushes it out like a firehose.
It does not, it does notinterrogate the end user Would
you like it differently?
or whatever?
No, nothing like that.
So we're finding ourselveshaving to create all kinds of
(20:53):
alternative structures, like thering system and so forth, to
try and get smarter about things.
Similarly, in water, americabuilt this water system so long
ago much of it was built in the1800s the 1800s that we kind of
have it.
The problem is, of course, thatpopulations grow and
(21:16):
populations move.
For example, right now there'sa giant boom going on in North
Texas, of people having movedthere and between Dallas and the
Oklahoma border.
It's boomtown and we have abunch of clients that are
(21:37):
implementing our decentralizedwater system as a way to not
have to connect the sewagebecause the utilities have not
kept up with the boom.
Here's the problem.
Behind me is Pinellas County,florida, which is one of the
most populated counties inFlorida.
Where are you going to put thewater sewage system?
Not going to happen.
It used to be.
You could do a bunch oflandfill in the water and build
(21:58):
on that, but that's anenvironmental issue.
So there's all kinds of reasonswhy central utilities don't get
built, and aside from the factthat the existing utilities are
suffering from lack ofmaintenance and upgrades.
So long story short is it'smaking sense more and more for
industry to have its own watertreatment.
(22:21):
There's other important trends.
For example, deglobalization iscausing a lot of businesses to
relocate their manufacturing inplaces like South Texas,
northern Mexico et cetera, andthat is starting to happen so
fast that, again, there's notime to build a central utility.
(22:42):
So you have an integrated watertreatment system that comes
automatically with the brand newfactory, and that's the new
thing.
The new thing is for industryand agriculture to take care of
their own water, because 90% ofall water demand is by industry
and agriculture.
That means the 10%, which isyou and me, gets short shrift
(23:03):
And basically these industrialand agricultural uses are just
in a way, suffocating the system.
And if we can pull them off thecentral system under their own
which they're delighted to doonce they understand the
benefits, including recyclingand predictable water rate
increases and whatever that, wethen enable the infrastructure
(23:25):
to serve the people better.
And I get very hot into thecolor about this because of the
heavy load by the business users, the 10% really don't get the
water they need.
Also, they get harassed a lotabout shorter showers, but
frankly they're not the bigdifference, right.
(23:47):
The big difference is on the90% side.
In Ireland, water is free.
Well, water should be free Andit can be if industry takes care
of its own water treatment.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Isn't that interesting too.
It's like a lot of therenewable energy arguments that
we need to do more to conserve,conserve, conserve.
Even if everyone was conservingat 100% or close to 100%
capacity or capability, it stillmakes a relatively minor dent
in the whole scheme of thingsBecause, as you say, industries
(24:20):
oftentimes are such hugecontributors to the problem, and
it strikes me that the thingthat always gets in the way is
it has to make business sensefor a business to engage in
something like you're talkingabout taking care of their own
water needs.
Well, until they see a net gainfor that on the bottom line or
(24:43):
they see a regulation that'sgoing to be so punitive that
it's to their advantage to getin line and do the thing, that's
either being regulated or is agreat revenue stream.
It just doesn't happen.
Do you think there are ways toget around that?
I mean, is it just a matter ofeducating and waiting for CEOs
(25:04):
with a conscience, or is itsimpler than that?
I mean, i hate punitivesituations, but sometimes it
seems like that's the only thingthat makes people or businesses
wake up and smell the coffee orthe water, if it were So let's
go back to that tornadolifecycle, which again starts
with the super early adopters,moves into the strategic buyers,
(25:28):
people who are trying to.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
For example, those houses of development in North
Texas are using standalonesewage treatment as a
competitive advantage.
They are moving ahead of theircompetitors because they don't
have to put in a sewage line toa utility that won't even accept
it.
So that's the stage wherethings are at, And then, before
that tornado, there's somethingcalled the chasm.
Now that chasm how in that book, inside the tornado, what gets?
(25:57):
You have to figure outsomething that's going to cross
the chasm.
In our case, what we've learnedis that many, many of these
users they have a problem withpermitting penalties and fines
and so forth, but they're livingwith them because they're
looking at a major capitalexpense to solve the problem.
(26:18):
And so our invention istwo-part.
Number one is module watersystems, which is the company we
built since 2018 that downsizedthe utility scale to these
plug-and-play modules that cango right into businesses Number
one.
Number two is a concept calledwater on demand, which is a lot
(26:41):
like all-well partnerships, inthat you can bring regular
investors to invest in a bundleof properties, with their
royalties secured by seizurerights on the assets and
ultimately potentiallygenerating generational wealth,
just like the oil industry.
(27:02):
But it's water Now.
With that money, we then offerthe customer like, don't pay for
the machine, it'll remain ours,it'll be on your side, but
it'll be our machine and youjust pay on the meter, like
you're accustomed to, And wealso take care of the
maintenance.
In other words, it takes theproblem completely away, And
(27:24):
that right now.
The first part, the technologypart, has been booming.
So these are people, businesses, that have managed to deal with
the financial issue, but theyare buying into their housing
development, for example, reststops on the highway, all these
(27:47):
detached applications, RVcampgrounds and so forth, mobile
home parks there's a variety ofthese that are very, very
clearly need their own watertreatment.
And then there are the big, bigwater users, which are pharma,
chip manufacturing, energy,alternative and regular energy
(28:11):
and food and beverage.
Those are the big four And theyare now doing their own water
treatment increasingly becausefor example, a chip fab has to
stop.
If there's a single hair in thewater, That's over.
The whole thing stops.
So they increasingly are justdoing we'll just do our water.
And in fact, there's a recentunicorn that was created in our
(28:34):
water industry that came out ofMIT and funded by some very high
end VCs.
That targets those four majorusers as being the low-hanging
fruit, And they're not evenbothering to supply financial
help.
They're just saying here,you're a pharmaceutical company,
you don't need financial help.
So there's certain types ofusers that are naturals, that we
(28:59):
are already.
We tripled our business hereover a year, between 2021 and
2022.
So we're rocking with that.
But then we want to really takeoff with that.
Don't worry, it's just aservice contract type
arrangement and get away fromthe capital expense.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Now, is that related to you've also formed?
as I understand it's a type ofcryptocurrency that also kind of
supports the management, if youwill, if I'm understanding it
correctly of water assets in away that allows people to see
water in the big picture and beable to help.
(29:35):
You know folks in Wisconsin canhelp people in Alabama rectify
a water situation that you knowthey can't necessarily address
it completely on their ownbecause it just aren't the
resources available to do that.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Well, we envision and what we did is it's really in
the lab and because we just gotto do one thing at a time, but
the idea is, once we startpaying those dividends to those
investors, to then package themas a digital bond coupon.
And so now what's great aboutit is that you've got this
(30:12):
digital bond coupon, you caneasily transfer it.
It becomes a market andeventually creates a water
marketplace that doesn't existtoday Because this is something
I learned in 2018, when I firststarted experimenting with
crypto is that water does nothave a clear defined value.
The price for water varies fromall of the place, right,
(30:35):
depending on availability And so, but when we do water on demand
, people are paying by thegallon and it's pretty much
similar.
The payment is pretty much thesame amount across the boards,
And so now you have every gallonmonetized and then a dividend
being paid on that productionand that becomes something that
(30:56):
becomes a fungible token andeventually can be a digital bond
market.
We have put that on the roadmapout there, because what's going
on is we're building essentiallya three-part business here.
The first part is this fundingof this equipment using the
(31:21):
well-known master limitedpartnership model from the oil
industry.
The middle of the third, thethree is the technology, the
modular water technology, andthe third is this managing a
service network where paymentonly occurs upon performance.
And putting together thosethree is enough of a challenge
(31:45):
for now.
Now, once we have it mature,then we might look at tokenizing
the payouts, which is aninteresting idea.
But the other, even moreinteresting idea is how to
expand water on demand.
Once we've figured out how todo this for the North American
region and we've got somepenetration, i want to then take
(32:05):
it and replicate it in otherregions, such as the Middle East
.
So have a partner in Dubai orwherever in the Middle East who
then creates a water on demandnetwork there, a partner in
Singapore who does it for theMalaysian Peninsula, et cetera,
and so we can have a replicationmodel where partners take what
(32:27):
we do here and copy it and wenow get a network effect.
And that, i think, is how wechange water in the world,
because India, for example, hasno water infrastructure
whatsoever.
Now they're spending giganticamounts of money way, way up in
Nepal on the hydrology becausethey've got to do something
(32:49):
about all that water up way, wayup high, but meanwhile there's
people in sewage pipes that aredying in New Delhi because it's
just horrendously backward.
And what you're not going to dois build a bunch of
billion-dollar water utilities,which you'll do is do a lot of
(33:10):
self-treatment by the industry,agriculture and eventually by
people's homes, their apartmentbuildings, their homes, et
cetera, and so decentralizingthe problem distributing water
treatment is a great idea.
Now, i'm not talking aboutincoming water.
I believe that themunicipalities need to continue
to provide our incoming water.
(33:31):
I don't think that's somethingwe want to really disrupt.
I'm talking about that waterbeing made clean, again recycled
which we don't do at all andthen safely return to the city
or put in the ground to rechargethe aquifer.
That's the model, and it'shappening.
Israel recycles 90% of itswater.
(33:51):
Why don't we?
Well, there's a lot of goodreasons why, but we're not going
to do it by persuading in SanDiego that they've been trying
to do this thing.
That was dubbed toilet-to-tap,which is a terrible word, and
toilet-to-tap became somethingthat was a municipal it was a
(34:12):
county of San Diego went afterthis, wanted to do it to recycle
the water, and they were,frankly, just stopped in their
tracks because of populardislike for the concept.
So don't even try.
Essentially, let people do itwherever they are.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Right?
Well, it's interesting when youtalk about things like
toilet-to-tap too, because itthat that's what the astronauts
are doing every day up in theISS, and it seems to me it's
always been a conundrum as towell, if it's good enough for
the astronauts, why can't wemarket that in a way that gets
people to embrace it, like theydid Tang back in the 60s?
(34:52):
I guess we just can't get awayfrom the fact that, yeah, but
this was someone's urine, youknow well.
Yeah, but it's not anymore.
And so, and if it solves aproblem?
I mean, you're talking about thepeople that are moving into
northern Texas.
Here they come into an areathat has an obvious just look
(35:13):
around the train has an obviouswater deficiency, and yet the
financial incentives, whatever,are such that, well, that's
where the jobs are, and they'regood jobs and we can make good
money doing it, and yet there'sno gatekeeper there to say, well
, wait a minute, we need to havethe infrastructure to allow
those people in.
Otherwise, as you know, likeletting 60,000 people into a
(35:35):
25,000 person stadium, you justyou know it's not going to work
successfully, right?
So is there not sure where I'mgoing with this question?
but how is there an educationalprocess you think we need to
get through to.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
It's an infrastructure.
It's an infrastructure.
You just do the infrastructurejust like cell phones right,
just bypass the whole centralinfrastructure and make it.
All they needed was cell phonetowers and phones And that was
that and the story right.
So we can do that with water.
In other words, let people havetheir own water systems.
You know we do at a brewery.
It'll be tucked away in acorner of the brewery and it
(36:11):
takes care of all their watertreatment, you know, and they
can reuse the water for washdowns, don't have to make beer
with it, but even without makingbeer, they can still recycle
50% of the water And that's abig win.
So you know the definitely wehave adoption going on of, you
know, decentralized ordistributed water treatment.
(36:32):
That's happening.
You know that.
Again, you know there is atremendous trend because of the
globalization, of repatriation,of reshoring of American
industry back to North America,and Peter Zihan, who is a
(36:53):
wonderful thinker, has predictedthat there's going to be an
enormous manufacturing boom inAmerica.
As it all comes back Now, whenthose, when these come back and
they've already begun to again,who takes care of the water?
And if you're, if you go toMexico, you'll find that nobody.
Nobody is treating that sewageWell.
(37:14):
That is not going to work forAmerican companies operating in
Mexico because they are stuckwith their own standards that
they have to meet for their ownyou know shareholders and so
forth.
So then we get an regulatoryrequirement.
So what is driving waterquality improvement in Mexico is
(37:35):
not the Mexicans, it is theAmerican companies that have to
meet their you know ESG typerequirements or you know eat
corporate standards that are setback home.
So we are going to see a lot ofthat happen And that is a vast
trend.
(37:55):
Now what we're saying is look,this trend is happening, you're
going to have self-containedwater treatment with these
factories and with the housingdevelopments that will spring up
as well, and all that.
And so use a compact technology, which we have, and use a
financing technology to make itpaper gallons, so people don't
even think about the capital,and that is why we are so
(38:20):
excited about what we've built.
And you know, this idea ofwater as a service is not a new
idea.
There's companies that do it,but you can't invest in them.
They are VC owned or they'reoperated, in the case of one
company, by Morgan StanleyInfrastructure Partners, so you
(38:43):
don't have access.
But OriginClear with our Wateron Demand offering.
We are welcoming regularinvestors.
Just go to OriginClearcom,press the invest now button and
they're up and running.
That is unique And we plan tokeep that sort of waters the
people's asset mentality Back in21,.
(39:08):
One of the water industry execswrote in Forbes Council as a
contributor.
He wrote the next trillionaireis going to be in water.
The first trillionaire is goingto be in water.
We say no, we don't want onetrillionaire, we want millions
of millionaires.
We'd rather democratize thisasset.
It's just now coming out fromgovernment monopoly and is now
(39:31):
starting to crank up what ittakes becoming hot.
Well, let's let regularinvestors have a crack at it,
and we love those investors.
They're super faithful And theyI believe it's like a political
campaign taking a bunch ofsmall contributions.
You're more powerful than acampaign driven by one guy's
(39:53):
wealth.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
For example, right.
Well, and it sounds like, too,there's this quality of
stewardship involved in that, inthat, if, if everyone is
involved in the process of use,utilizing and cultivating,
maintaining water in responsibleways, we all become much more
(40:16):
careful about how we utilize itand what we do to continue its
health.
If you will, that strikes me asa real.
I really applaud you for givinginto the forefront of helping
people to understand.
This is all going back to theoriginal question.
This isn't something we canjust whittle away or, you know,
(40:39):
treat flippantly.
It really is something that weall have a part in maintaining
it, so that you know, everyonehas the same access to life that
water provides for us, right?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Realistic though, businesses need to have ROI
right.
So, yes, they'll do beneficialthings, but if it doesn't work
financially, they'll be likeyeah, I don't know about that.
And so the fact that they canrecycle, which saves on water
rates, that they in thislong-term service contract, they
have predictable water rateindex, inflation index, as
(41:17):
opposed to the craziness that'sgoing on with water rates right
now, with this totallyuncontrolled these things and
also the ability to you knowit's very important that a
business knows that itsomebody's going to tell them.
Nobody can tell them.
No, we won't take your waterright, because that's going on
right now.
(41:37):
Municipalities are overloadedand they're saying we can't take
your dirty water And this isgoing well.
What am I doing with it now?
And they're tracking it to theother county.
This is happening all the time.
Well, once you get your ownsystem, no more dependency.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, doesn't worry, you can cut me off if you want
to, because I'm already cut offmyself.
I have a friend that you knowinstalled all renewable energy
sources at his house and hefinally talks about the day that
the utilities guy came over andwas looking all around the
house, you know, looking for ameter, and he couldn't find it
and he waited long enough forthe the guy to.
He would have figured it outeventually.
(42:13):
But he came out and said whatare you looking for?
And he said well, you're meter.
Yeah, where's your meter?
He said I don't have a meter,i'm all on my own, see, ya, so
it was a great day.
So how about you know the Bideninfrastructure bill?
as I understand it, had somereally key incentives built into
(42:35):
it for water infrastructure.
Do you think that is a?
you know?
is that something we should, asa Republican or Democrat, that
people should be getting behind,or is it not sufficient enough?
Is it just kind of a band-aidwhen there's really much more
serious surgery necessary?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
I'm sitting here on a calculator looking at there we
go There's 120, it's 1.2trillion dollars, right?
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I want to make sure I got another million, billion,
trillion, a few too many digits.
Okay, 1.2 trillion dollars wasthe administration divided by 55
billion, which is what,fortunately, was water right,
and it goes in 2000, over 2000times.
(43:27):
So what water got was what went2000,.
Literally, you can have 2000times water's share of that bill
to get to that bill.
People don't realize how much atrillion dollars is right.
So the point I'm making is that55 billion was meaningless in
the context of the waterindustry is falling behind by
(43:49):
$100 billion every year.
So the water now.
Was it helpful?
Yes, because there's a bigfocus on lead remediation, which
is vital, but it really didnothing for the infrastructure
itself.
And our theory is like look,don't try and rebuild the
infrastructure, it's going totake 30 years, it'll take
trillions of dollars.
(44:10):
Instead, unburden it, unburdenthe infrastructure, take the
load off by having that happenremotely.
And that seems to me that, forexample, in Miami-Dade County,
when they originally built thatcounty, they were sprawled in
the planet And so they have over100,000, what do you call it?
(44:35):
the subject tax And thosesubject tanks are leaking and
the water table is rising andit's all horrible.
And so the Miami-Dade wants tospend $8 billion is, they say,
six, but eight or more to sendsewage lines out to each of the
100,000 septic tanks.
(44:56):
Well, why not just give them arebate for just having a
standalone black water systemand then done right, instead of
tearing up the street andspending billions and 20 years?
But of course that's how theythink, the central guys think
central and they also love tohave the big, you know Contracts
that go along with it, so forth, sure, but you know at the end
(45:18):
of the day, it makes a lot ofsense for it to be um
decentralized, and thetechnology is there.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Well, it seems like um I think it's a Gates
foundation, didn't they?
they're doing similar umprojects in third world world
countries, trying to help them,uh, get a system that will allow
them to convert their sewagewhich oftentimes is just the
nearby brook or river, um, andbe able to not only take care of
that sewage and manage thatbetter, but also be able to
(45:48):
develop a clean water supply.
Um, so it strikes me thatthat's almost the Maybe that's.
The model we're working towardsis here in Prairie to Sack,
wisconsin, we would have our ownself sufficiency in water
supply and water treatment.
Is that seem like a Rationalapproach to this?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Well, i guess I don't mind communal water supply,
because that's, that's logical.
I don't want, i don't wantevery business to dig it so well
, necessarily, um, but we doneed to have um standalone water
treatment.
And you know, it's all verywell that foundations are paying
for things in Africa, but let'spay attention to what's going
on in north america, for god'ssake.
(46:28):
Yeah right, we have realproblems.
Flint is only the tip of theiceberg.
You know there's some terribleproblems throughout america that
are not really being discussedwith water quality.
Uh, south banda, which was abig manufacturing center, has
tremendous problems with thewater strata And we don't hear
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
If there's someone out there listening right now
that just is not getting it.
Um, you know, that's just likeah, it rains all the time, you
know?
or you know all this alarmiststuff about water.
Yeah, come on, is theresomething you would point to?
or is there A question youwould ask to get them to wake up
(47:09):
and realize that we're talkinglife and death Ultimately, i
mean, at the end of the day, wehave to figure this out, because
water Is not inexhaustible.
Um, you know, yeah, we candesalinize oceans, but you know
we're not going to solve theproblem, um, by not addressing
it head on.
What?
what is that problem?
(47:29):
or what it's the problem withpeople not embracing this?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Let's do the easy stuff first.
Desalination is expensive andit's an energy hog, right.
Look at, look at um san jacobcounty.
You know the Colorado riverwater Costs as little as 25
dollars an acre foot an acrefoot is just to give you an idea
is, um, roughly what a familyof four can live off needs in a
(47:53):
year.
Okay, so that's an acre foot.
So, um, but that um, san JuanCapistrano desal plant is $1350
per acre foot.
That's expensive stuff.
So now your water bill is kindof rocket.
Why not recycle?
It's so easy.
Do the recycling thing.
(48:14):
You know it's like you reallywant to make it expensive.
And, by the way, the Huntingtonbeach desal plant, after 10
years of development, gotcancelled Because of because of,
uh, neighborly pressure.
So that's not a solution.
So start doing the the thingsthat make sense.
And, furthermore, any percentof all water in the world, of
(48:34):
all sewage in the world, is nottreated at all.
It's dumped.
Do you really want to live insewage?
because that's what it's goingto be.
Image.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, all I need to do is watch a couple of
documentaries about that sort ofthing, and I think that that
woke me up.
I was already a wakenedsomewhat, but, um, riggs were
out of time.
I can't believe the the an hourgoes by as quickly as it does.
Maybe that's our great resourcethat we need to figure out a
way to recycle is time, so, sowe can spend more of it on the
(49:02):
things that really matter, likediscussions about stuff that
will Kill us if we don't attendto them, right?
So, uh, riggs echelberries butmy guess he's a nationally
renowned entrepreneur Dedicatedto revolutionizing the water
industry, and we've gotten justa tip of that iceberg, of what
that looks like in a waterrevolution.
But, riggs, i can't thank youenough for your time.
I know you're a busy man.
(49:22):
You've got lots of obviouslybig things going on.
Um, i can only wish you thebest of luck in those endeavors
and, uh, i hope this little timetogether will help to wake some
people up as well.
It maybe just make them think alittle bit.
That's always a good thing aswell, right?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
And if they want to invest in the new asset water,
just go to originclearcom Greenbutton at the top.
at the top invest now.
We'd welcome your investment.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah Well, get involved.
Right, it's a grassroots effort, if not a, uh, a drip drop
effort, i'm not sure what wewould call it so.
So thank you very much.
Thank you, take care, andthanks for listening and to us
on frame of reference.
Well, welcome to another episode of Frame of
Reference Profiles in Leadership.
And today I have anotheropportunity to interview someone
that I have never talked withbefore, and that is always
exciting because it means Ihonestly learn more that way
than I do with people that I'vetalked to multiple times,
because you get in kind of a rutof asking the same old, same
(00:20):
old, and today is a topic toothat I've never had.
Anyone with a specificbackground in this, if you've
looked at the show before, we'vetalked with Kurt Meini and you
know other currentconservationists Charlie Luthan,
over the years, and certainlyboth of those gentlemen have a
lot of interest in water and theconservation of the same.
(00:44):
But my guest today is RiggsEcclberry, and he is a
nationally renowned, so I can'tsay words today.
Let's start over with that one.
Riggs Ecclberry is a nationallyrenowned entrepreneur dedicated
to revolutionizing I just shouldgive up talking, and, riggs,
you can do it all, okayRevolutionizing the water
(01:06):
industry, which has reached acritical breaking point in
recent years, despite beingessential to the planet's
survival.
So I think we could say if youdon't know about Riggs Ecclberry
, you're not all wet because youshould know, isn't that?
huh, you like?
I've been thinking about thatone for a while, riggs.
So he is also qualified tobring change to an outdated and
(01:29):
overrun industry, which I wantto find out more about that.
But thank you, riggs, fortaking time out of your busy
schedule to talk with me today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
It's a great pleasure , thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So, riggs, as you know, we talked a little bit
beforehand about the way that Ilike to do my modus operandi, if
you will And we like to startout always with a thing called
my favorite things.
One of these days I'll get therights to that song and we can
overlay Julie Andrews doing awonderful rendition of it.
I don't have enough money forthat quite yet, but we'll get
(02:03):
there someday, i'm sure, anyway.
So I'm just going to throw outsome things there.
It's very Roshaktian You justsay whatever comes to your mind
first, and if you have tostruggle a little bit to think
that's even better.
So, because it means you'redigging deep.
I always like that.
So let's start with somethingeasy.
All right, how about a favoritecolor?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's blue.
Not only do I have I'm stuckwith wearing blue because of at
least my eyes used to be blue, Idon't know if they are anymore
But also I just love the oceanand spent many years as a both
an amateur and a professionalsailor, And to me, the water.
(02:46):
As a big skier sailor, I lovewater, So I would say blue.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, well, that's consistent, if nothing else,
right?
So how about a favorite bookBesides yours?
you can't, you can't use one ofyours.
That's just too self serving.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So well, i have to say, the one that I, that I try
to you know, live by is calledinside the tornado, and that is
a book that was a successor toan equally famous book called
Cross and the chasm.
Now, the whole idea of insidethe tornado, by Jeffrey Moore, a
(03:25):
just an amazing, amazing book,is that it characterizes the
high tech product lifecycle,which starts at the very
beginning with the crazies, thepeople who actually use the
Newton PDA, those people, andthen it moves to the strategic
(03:48):
buyer, the buyer that is tryingto get an edge on competition.
And then it does this, itcrosses this chasm, which is the
big challenge to enter, wascalled the tornado, which is
every adopts it right, and thenand then it moves to a, to a
sort of a conservative stage,and then the back end is the
(04:08):
skeptics, who are always, alwaystheir last.
Now it I came up through hightech, you know, starting in the
80s, and I love it.
I believe that everything isbehaving like a high tech
lifecycle these days.
So things are moving faster andfaster all the time, and I came
to the water industry as a hightech guy.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay, does that?
you know, that concerns mesometimes, that we are moving so
tornadically, if you that's aword, because with that that, if
you say the increasing violenceeven of that whirlwind we seem
to I don't know how to describeit except to say it seems like
(04:52):
we lose some critical things inthat maelstrom, you know not the
least of which is, perhaps, youknow, decency and civility.
You know, because it is soquick, you have to make a
decision now, now, now, now, now.
And with that mentality it'svery difficult to take a pause
(05:12):
and just enjoy the ocean, right,you know to, to let yourself be
steeped in the moment of isn'tthis a wonderful world, and
shouldn't we take care of someof these things?
Do you find that as a challenge?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I think you're 100% right And we are just in this
constant spin cycle that youknow.
Some would say it was it'sintentional to basically get us
just to work all the time.
But, regardless, you're right.
Now that doesn't mean you knowwhat I'm really getting at is
(05:49):
high tech techniques really arevery, very good for disruption,
right?
What I found when I ended thewater industry was an industry
that was not prepared for change.
They like everything's fine,we're going to.
You know, it's a similarattitude to the one you most
people have with the watercoming out of their faucet or
flushing out of the toilet,which is everything's fine.
But it wasn't.
(06:10):
And so there was an industrythat's very hard to change And
in many ways, in many ways,rightfully so, because they have
a public health mission and soforth.
But I had to go and find what.
Would you know, what was thepoint of leverage to make the
fulcrum, to make this changehappen?
And that's where my knowledgeof destructive marketing gained
(06:35):
through 10 years of going up.
At one point I went from beingan entrepreneur to being in the
corporate space And for 10 yearsI basically worked my way up to
being what I consider, you know, a good sea level executive,
and it was all about how can Ibreak the existing situation,
(06:56):
whether it's we're strugglingwith old, outdated, bad code, or
are we into a great product butnobody knows about it, or any
variety of things.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I think that effective disruption is a good
thing, and it strikes me to thatin Wisconsin, where I live,
we've had a number of tornadoes.
So, and even throughout therest of the United States, you
find that that tornado comesthrough, it's very disruptive,
and yet the towns that choose torebuild, they often come back
(07:27):
stronger.
They come back having learnedsome important lessons about not
only how to build things better, but find out which things
really really matter in life.
That's very true.
So perhaps there's an analogythere.
not that I want to live throughtornado, i'm not saying that
it's just.
but you're right, disruptionsare oftentimes the best way of
(07:49):
learning to what about how?
about a favorite quote?
And hopefully that's easy.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, i I think this is something that has stood the
test of time for me, and I hadthis as a young man in my wallet
for years which is the authorof The Little Prince wrote this
is Nick and looks very tired.
It's just really a relationshipof men.
There's one true wealth and itis human relations.
(08:16):
Right, and I'll tell yousomething.
He wrote that in a book calledtell the zone, land of Men And
what.
I think.
That's the point essentially,every everything that we're
doing is about that.
The very good quote by WarrenBuffett that I just love, and
(08:38):
that is I've never known anybodythat was basically kind, that
died without friends.
I've known plenty of peoplewith money who died without
friends, including their family.
So, you know, pursuit of moneyis great, pursuit of, you know,
paying attention to lifestyleand what I'm wearing in the
dollar, that's all great, butthe real magic, i believe, is
what we're doing right here.
(09:00):
Right, that's, that's it, andeverything else is kind of
besides the point.
Even if it is water and thesource of life, it does come
back to human relationships.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's interesting.
You picked that book toobecause my brother, years ago,
gave me a copy of The LittlePrince And I should find that,
because I remember he wrotesomething in the preface to it
of, you know, sharing it with mebecause he had found that it it
served him well during his lifeand hope that it would do the
same for me.
And you know, sonne X Parry isjust a, you know, wonderfully
(09:30):
charming author, and I forgetwho did the illustrations for
that, but, you know, managed tocapture the simplistic beauty
very, very well.
So reminds me we need the poo.
So kind of along that line,right, how about?
do you have a favorite food?
Everyone has a favorite food.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I hope So well, it depends A favorite food to eat
or to make.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Either you choose.
You're the guest.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's the difference .
I, over the years, evolved areal talent with Resort, and the
reason I like risotto is it's adish that you build over time
and you can often do it withfriends around and they're
watching you build this risottoand then they're going to see it
.
Unfortunately, you know, a fewmonths ago I went into a keto
(10:21):
diet, so no more rice, and soRight now I'm in.
last night, my wife and I had atrue grass fed ribeye that was
done on the barbecue and it wasamazing.
Oh, really good clean food likethat.
Now, another great dish that Ilove is ossobuco.
(10:45):
Okay, kill me now.
That is the best.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, the best.
I have to try that.
That's not something I have had, although the ribeye steak
thing I am right with you onthat one.
So there's nothing like a steakon a grill to make a day happy.
I usually require that for mybirthday and or father's day, or
both, so the family doesn'teven have to ask anymore Dad,
(11:10):
what do you want?
So what kind of steak do youwant, dad?
So how about last question?
How about?
is there a favorite place thatyou like to go to when you just
need to kind of clear your head?
A favorite thing?
it may be a thing that you doto an activity, but that just is
a centering thing for you orplace.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Wow that's fascinating.
Yeah, I would say that the mostinteresting thing to do is to
sit down.
My wife and I both work veryhard She has a school But to eat
, to sit down and have dinnertogether and just just quietly
(11:53):
talk about whatever that to me,just recharges me tremendously.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Why I had a friend that just was talking about that
, that he is a psychiatrist andhe had said that we were kind of
both reflecting on our livesand we're both in our 60s and
thinking about you know all thethings that when we first knew
each other we wish we would havedone or that we saw ourselves
potentially doing.
And both of us came to the samerealization that, you know, all
of those dreams that you havewhen you're young don't really
(12:22):
match up to the little thingsthat happen over the course of
your life that really impact us,that really help to form who we
are, and that I thought thatwas really it was interesting
that he and I had come to thatsame realization.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And I think you got to find value in the small
things, because that's most oflife, right.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, yeah, very much so.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So you know.
but if you want to know wherephysically I go to, unwind is,
I'm an avid skier And that wayfor years and years.
in fact, for my 40th birthday,when I ski bumped, I dropped my
entire career, which at the timewas I was working in film And
people who were coming up thegondola while I was in my chef's
(13:06):
uniform at Keystone and theyfind out that I had taken a
break from film They go no,don't do it.
You got to go back right away.
You lose it all.
But I it was a blowout winterfor me And these days, because
eventually you know, you ski,you ski, you ski, you ski.
Well, what else do you do whileyou start to teach kids?
(13:28):
And so my wife's school kids gowith us to the mountains twice,
usually once or twice a year,And I love being the guy who
take.
Come on, let me show you how todo a double black diamond, and
we survived it.
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, you're leaving a legacy right Of people that
got turned on to skiing by yourpassion for it, That is.
that is no matter what thedomain is.
that's a wonderful thing.
So, Riggs, you know, I have tosay to Riggs Echelberry, it
sounds like we should be talkingin a British accent.
So today I have RiggsEchelberry with me.
Professor, Riggs Echelberry,Where did that name come from?
(14:09):
I have to know.
Is that a nickname or was it ashortened version of a longer
name, Riggs alone?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
My full name is Tenor T-E-N-E-R.
Riggs, echelberry Junior.
Okay, and so my dad was knownas Tenor and I was known as
Riggs.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Right.
So when I'm, usually when Ideal with officialdom and with
you know, the hospitals orwhatever they call it, hello,
tenor and I go.
Who's that?
My dad passed away a few yearsago, so I no longer bother with
the Junior, but what they are istheir family name.
(14:46):
So Tenor was a family name fromFrance and through via Ireland.
And then Riggs, you're right,was an English family name that
was in the family.
Echelberry is German, okay, itcomes from South Germany, okay.
So, and then there's a wholeother side, which is my mother's
(15:06):
side, which is, you know, fromCuba and Spain and Colombia,
which is the whole of the world,okay.
So, you know, i'm going to stirit up.
I'm a good mix.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Wow.
So you have Irish, german andFrench in your name.
That happens to be the threenationalities that I have in my
actual genetic background.
My dad.
Dad was full French.
Mom was half French, a quarterGerman and quarter Irish, so she
always used to think of herselfas pure Irish, though, and that
was always a point ofcontention.
(15:36):
You know the old saying.
You know there are only twotypes of people in the world
Those that are Irish and thosethat wish they were, and I'd say
, yeah, mom.
There's also those that areglad they ain't.
So she didn't like that toomuch.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
There's a joke about you know Vermonters.
This family moves to Vermontfrom New York And after a winter
of being there and livingthrough the snow and all the so
forth, the wife says to istalking to a localist.
She says, well, i guess we'rereal Vermonters.
And the guy says, well, my, mycat had her kittens in the oven.
(16:15):
that does not make them muffins.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well, as we always say too, that you know you can
put yourself in a garage andcall yourself a car, but that
doesn't make you a car, So butany who So Riggs.
I am fascinated about the, thework that you have ended up
doing, and we talked a littlebit before we even started the,
the actual recording about mycoming into this and realizing.
(16:43):
You know, to my own shame, thatone of the issues I think we
have and you know at least Ipersonally have with the topic
of water is that it is soneglected because we have so
much of it.
And yet you know, if you go outto Arizona or you know
California or places wherethey're struggling, and you know
(17:04):
ringing the last bits of theColorado River out, you know to
get by, and you know strugglingbecause they can't have their
lawns be as green as they wouldlove to them to be.
You know, whatever the crisisof the day is with water, you
know I I I'm kind of in a wholedifferent world because I grew
up three blocks from LakeMichigan in Milwaukee And you
(17:24):
know we we never thought toomuch about it because there was
plenty of it there.
That you know we just at thattime is, scooped it up from the
lake and did a little bit ofwater treatment and it was fine.
And yet it is so critical, youknow the so critical that you
cannot live.
You know you can go months, ormore, over a month, without food
(17:45):
, but you can't go more thanthree, four days without water.
So why do you think that is?
Why are we so reluctant to grabahold of the preciousness of
water and use it, as I want tosay, sacredly, as we ought,
because it is?
it's a, you know, a gift thatthe farmers that I know in our
(18:07):
community talk about.
You know, never curse the rainbecause they, they remember
times when they go throughsevere droughts and you know
what impact that has, not onlyunder livelihood but on
everything around them.
And yet we're like oh, rainyday.
I was that coming from.
Have you looked at thepsychology or the spirituality
(18:29):
of that?
Is that what drove you intothis Is?
somebody has to make adifference and make this better.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Well, how I got into it was completely asked
backwards, because I, you know,in brief, my my story was that,
as I said, i finally got intothe corporate world and 10 years
later I was, i was, i felt Iwas qualified to become a CEO,
having also been in, you know,prior to that, a ship captain
and business owner.
(18:56):
Blah, blah, blah.
And this fund agreed with me.
But they said we're not doinghigh tech anymore, we're doing
green, and we think algae is thenext big thing for biofuels.
And so we launched a companyoriginally called Origin Oil,
which should mean, you know,algae.
It's petroleum doesn't comefrom dinosaurs, it comes from
algae.
There are not enough dinosaursout there to make it all fossil
(19:20):
fuel.
So the the idea of algae forbiofuel was so powerful that I
found myself, you know, gettingtremendous media coverage And I
was on TV a lot and so forth.
The problem is that frackingcame along and depressed the
price of all so much that itjust wasn't viable to run a
company making biofuel at $120 abarrel when oil was at 40 or 50
(19:46):
.
So we pivoted into water asmore of a like well, what can we
do with our technology, whichis an extraction technology?
And we figured out okay, youknow sewage, you know that works
, and so we went with that.
More as you know, alternateapplication for the tech that we
had And and that's where welearned that water is is its own
(20:10):
thing.
Now why?
Well, the main thing, it's aproblem of I think it's a
problem of generations ofinfrastructure.
Let's take, for example, phonesright.
Africa never bothered to go tolandlines, it just went straight
to cell phones And, in a way,america our adoption of
(20:31):
broadband and so forth was heldup by having landlines right.
So you're held up by a legacyinfrastructure.
Similarly, we have an energygrid that only talks one way It
just pushes it out like a firehose.
It does not, it does notinterrogate the end user Would
you like it differently?
or whatever?
No, nothing like that.
So we're finding ourselveshaving to create all kinds of
(20:53):
alternative structures, like thering system and so forth, to
try and get smarter about things.
Similarly, in water, americabuilt this water system so long
ago much of it was built in the1800s the 1800s that we kind of
have it.
The problem is, of course, thatpopulations grow and
(21:16):
populations move.
For example, right now there'sa giant boom going on in North
Texas, of people having movedthere and between Dallas and the
Oklahoma border.
It's boomtown and we have abunch of clients that are
(21:37):
implementing our decentralizedwater system as a way to not
have to connect the sewagebecause the utilities have not
kept up with the boom.
Here's the problem.
Behind me is Pinellas County,florida, which is one of the
most populated counties inFlorida.
Where are you going to put thewater sewage system?
Not going to happen.
It used to be.
You could do a bunch oflandfill in the water and build
(21:58):
on that, but that's anenvironmental issue.
So there's all kinds of reasonswhy central utilities don't get
built, and aside from the factthat the existing utilities are
suffering from lack ofmaintenance and upgrades.
So long story short is it'smaking sense more and more for
industry to have its own watertreatment.
(22:21):
There's other important trends.
For example, deglobalization iscausing a lot of businesses to
relocate their manufacturing inplaces like South Texas,
northern Mexico et cetera, andthat is starting to happen so
fast that, again, there's notime to build a central utility.
(22:42):
So you have an integrated watertreatment system that comes
automatically with the brand newfactory, and that's the new
thing.
The new thing is for industryand agriculture to take care of
their own water, because 90% ofall water demand is by industry
and agriculture.
That means the 10%, which isyou and me, gets short shrift
(23:03):
And basically these industrialand agricultural uses are just
in a way, suffocating the system.
And if we can pull them off thecentral system under their own
which they're delighted to doonce they understand the
benefits, including recyclingand predictable water rate
increases and whatever that, wethen enable the infrastructure
(23:25):
to serve the people better.
And I get very hot into thecolor about this because of the
heavy load by the business users, the 10% really don't get the
water they need.
Also, they get harassed a lotabout shorter showers, but
frankly they're not the bigdifference, right.
(23:47):
The big difference is on the90% side.
In Ireland, water is free.
Well, water should be free Andit can be if industry takes care
of its own water treatment.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Isn't that interesting too.
It's like a lot of therenewable energy arguments that
we need to do more to conserve,conserve, conserve.
Even if everyone was conservingat 100% or close to 100%
capacity or capability, it stillmakes a relatively minor dent
in the whole scheme of thingsBecause, as you say, industries
(24:20):
oftentimes are such hugecontributors to the problem, and
it strikes me that the thingthat always gets in the way is
it has to make business sensefor a business to engage in
something like you're talkingabout taking care of their own
water needs.
Well, until they see a net gainfor that on the bottom line or
(24:43):
they see a regulation that'sgoing to be so punitive that
it's to their advantage to getin line and do the thing, that's
either being regulated or is agreat revenue stream.
It just doesn't happen.
Do you think there are ways toget around that?
I mean, is it just a matter ofeducating and waiting for CEOs
(25:04):
with a conscience, or is itsimpler than that?
I mean, i hate punitivesituations, but sometimes it
seems like that's the only thingthat makes people or businesses
wake up and smell the coffee orthe water, if it were So let's
go back to that tornadolifecycle, which again starts
with the super early adopters,moves into the strategic buyers,
(25:28):
people who are trying to.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
For example, those houses of development in North
Texas are using standalonesewage treatment as a
competitive advantage.
They are moving ahead of theircompetitors because they don't
have to put in a sewage line toa utility that won't even accept
it.
So that's the stage wherethings are at, And then, before
that tornado, there's somethingcalled the chasm.
Now that chasm how in that book, inside the tornado, what gets?
(25:57):
You have to figure outsomething that's going to cross
the chasm.
In our case, what we've learnedis that many, many of these
users they have a problem withpermitting penalties and fines
and so forth, but they're livingwith them because they're
looking at a major capitalexpense to solve the problem.
(26:18):
And so our invention istwo-part.
Number one is module watersystems, which is the company we
built since 2018 that downsizedthe utility scale to these
plug-and-play modules that cango right into businesses Number
one.
Number two is a concept calledwater on demand, which is a lot
(26:41):
like all-well partnerships, inthat you can bring regular
investors to invest in a bundleof properties, with their
royalties secured by seizurerights on the assets and
ultimately potentiallygenerating generational wealth,
just like the oil industry.
(27:02):
But it's water Now.
With that money, we then offerthe customer like, don't pay for
the machine, it'll remain ours,it'll be on your side, but
it'll be our machine and youjust pay on the meter, like
you're accustomed to, And wealso take care of the
maintenance.
In other words, it takes theproblem completely away, And
(27:24):
that right now.
The first part, the technologypart, has been booming.
So these are people, businesses, that have managed to deal with
the financial issue, but theyare buying into their housing
development, for example, reststops on the highway, all these
(27:47):
detached applications, RVcampgrounds and so forth, mobile
home parks there's a variety ofthese that are very, very
clearly need their own watertreatment.
And then there are the big, bigwater users, which are pharma,
chip manufacturing, energy,alternative and regular energy
(28:11):
and food and beverage.
Those are the big four And theyare now doing their own water
treatment increasingly becausefor example, a chip fab has to
stop.
If there's a single hair in thewater, That's over.
The whole thing stops.
So they increasingly are justdoing we'll just do our water.
And in fact, there's a recentunicorn that was created in our
(28:34):
water industry that came out ofMIT and funded by some very high
end VCs.
That targets those four majorusers as being the low-hanging
fruit, And they're not evenbothering to supply financial
help.
They're just saying here,you're a pharmaceutical company,
you don't need financial help.
So there's certain types ofusers that are naturals, that we
(28:59):
are already.
We tripled our business hereover a year, between 2021 and
2022.
So we're rocking with that.
But then we want to really takeoff with that.
Don't worry, it's just aservice contract type
arrangement and get away fromthe capital expense.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Now, is that related to you've also formed?
as I understand it's a type ofcryptocurrency that also kind of
supports the management, if youwill, if I'm understanding it
correctly of water assets in away that allows people to see
water in the big picture and beable to help.
(29:35):
You know folks in Wisconsin canhelp people in Alabama rectify
a water situation that you knowthey can't necessarily address
it completely on their ownbecause it just aren't the
resources available to do that.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Well, we envision and what we did is it's really in
the lab and because we just gotto do one thing at a time, but
the idea is, once we startpaying those dividends to those
investors, to then package themas a digital bond coupon.
And so now what's great aboutit is that you've got this
(30:12):
digital bond coupon, you caneasily transfer it.
It becomes a market andeventually creates a water
marketplace that doesn't existtoday Because this is something
I learned in 2018, when I firststarted experimenting with
crypto is that water does nothave a clear defined value.
The price for water varies fromall of the place, right,
(30:35):
depending on availability And so, but when we do water on demand
, people are paying by thegallon and it's pretty much
similar.
The payment is pretty much thesame amount across the boards,
And so now you have every gallonmonetized and then a dividend
being paid on that productionand that becomes something that
(30:56):
becomes a fungible token andeventually can be a digital bond
market.
We have put that on the roadmapout there, because what's going
on is we're building essentiallya three-part business here.
The first part is this fundingof this equipment using the
(31:21):
well-known master limitedpartnership model from the oil
industry.
The middle of the third, thethree is the technology, the
modular water technology, andthe third is this managing a
service network where paymentonly occurs upon performance.
And putting together thosethree is enough of a challenge
(31:45):
for now.
Now, once we have it mature,then we might look at tokenizing
the payouts, which is aninteresting idea.
But the other, even moreinteresting idea is how to
expand water on demand.
Once we've figured out how todo this for the North American
region and we've got somepenetration, i want to then take
(32:05):
it and replicate it in otherregions, such as the Middle East
.
So have a partner in Dubai orwherever in the Middle East who
then creates a water on demandnetwork there, a partner in
Singapore who does it for theMalaysian Peninsula, et cetera,
and so we can have a replicationmodel where partners take what
(32:27):
we do here and copy it and wenow get a network effect.
And that, i think, is how wechange water in the world,
because India, for example, hasno water infrastructure
whatsoever.
Now they're spending giganticamounts of money way, way up in
Nepal on the hydrology becausethey've got to do something
(32:49):
about all that water up way, wayup high, but meanwhile there's
people in sewage pipes that aredying in New Delhi because it's
just horrendously backward.
And what you're not going to dois build a bunch of
billion-dollar water utilities,which you'll do is do a lot of
(33:10):
self-treatment by the industry,agriculture and eventually by
people's homes, their apartmentbuildings, their homes, et
cetera, and so decentralizingthe problem distributing water
treatment is a great idea.
Now, i'm not talking aboutincoming water.
I believe that themunicipalities need to continue
to provide our incoming water.
(33:31):
I don't think that's somethingwe want to really disrupt.
I'm talking about that waterbeing made clean, again recycled
which we don't do at all andthen safely return to the city
or put in the ground to rechargethe aquifer.
That's the model, and it'shappening.
Israel recycles 90% of itswater.
(33:51):
Why don't we?
Well, there's a lot of goodreasons why, but we're not going
to do it by persuading in SanDiego that they've been trying
to do this thing.
That was dubbed toilet-to-tap,which is a terrible word, and
toilet-to-tap became somethingthat was a municipal it was a
(34:12):
county of San Diego went afterthis, wanted to do it to recycle
the water, and they were,frankly, just stopped in their
tracks because of populardislike for the concept.
So don't even try.
Essentially, let people do itwherever they are.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Right?
Well, it's interesting when youtalk about things like
toilet-to-tap too, because itthat that's what the astronauts
are doing every day up in theISS, and it seems to me it's
always been a conundrum as towell, if it's good enough for
the astronauts, why can't wemarket that in a way that gets
people to embrace it, like theydid Tang back in the 60s?
(34:52):
I guess we just can't get awayfrom the fact that, yeah, but
this was someone's urine, youknow well.
Yeah, but it's not anymore.
And so, and if it solves aproblem?
I mean, you're talking about thepeople that are moving into
northern Texas.
Here they come into an areathat has an obvious just look
(35:13):
around the train has an obviouswater deficiency, and yet the
financial incentives, whatever,are such that, well, that's
where the jobs are, and they'regood jobs and we can make good
money doing it, and yet there'sno gatekeeper there to say, well
, wait a minute, we need to havethe infrastructure to allow
those people in.
Otherwise, as you know, likeletting 60,000 people into a
(35:35):
25,000 person stadium, you justyou know it's not going to work
successfully, right?
So is there not sure where I'mgoing with this question?
but how is there an educationalprocess you think we need to
get through to.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
It's an infrastructure.
It's an infrastructure.
You just do the infrastructurejust like cell phones right,
just bypass the whole centralinfrastructure and make it.
All they needed was cell phonetowers and phones And that was
that and the story right.
So we can do that with water.
In other words, let people havetheir own water systems.
You know we do at a brewery.
It'll be tucked away in acorner of the brewery and it
(36:11):
takes care of all their watertreatment, you know, and they
can reuse the water for washdowns, don't have to make beer
with it, but even without makingbeer, they can still recycle
50% of the water And that's abig win.
So you know the definitely wehave adoption going on of, you
know, decentralized ordistributed water treatment.
(36:32):
That's happening.
You know that.
Again, you know there is atremendous trend because of the
globalization, of repatriation,of reshoring of American
industry back to North America,and Peter Zihan, who is a
(36:53):
wonderful thinker, has predictedthat there's going to be an
enormous manufacturing boom inAmerica.
As it all comes back Now, whenthose, when these come back and
they've already begun to again,who takes care of the water?
And if you're, if you go toMexico, you'll find that nobody.
Nobody is treating that sewageWell.
(37:14):
That is not going to work forAmerican companies operating in
Mexico because they are stuckwith their own standards that
they have to meet for their ownyou know shareholders and so
forth.
So then we get an regulatoryrequirement.
So what is driving waterquality improvement in Mexico is
(37:35):
not the Mexicans, it is theAmerican companies that have to
meet their you know ESG typerequirements or you know eat
corporate standards that are setback home.
So we are going to see a lot ofthat happen And that is a vast
trend.
(37:55):
Now what we're saying is look,this trend is happening, you're
going to have self-containedwater treatment with these
factories and with the housingdevelopments that will spring up
as well, and all that.
And so use a compact technology, which we have, and use a
financing technology to make itpaper gallons, so people don't
even think about the capital,and that is why we are so
(38:20):
excited about what we've built.
And you know, this idea ofwater as a service is not a new
idea.
There's companies that do it,but you can't invest in them.
They are VC owned or they'reoperated, in the case of one
company, by Morgan StanleyInfrastructure Partners, so you
(38:43):
don't have access.
But OriginClear with our Wateron Demand offering.
We are welcoming regularinvestors.
Just go to OriginClearcom,press the invest now button and
they're up and running.
That is unique And we plan tokeep that sort of waters the
people's asset mentality Back in21,.
(39:08):
One of the water industry execswrote in Forbes Council as a
contributor.
He wrote the next trillionaireis going to be in water.
The first trillionaire is goingto be in water.
We say no, we don't want onetrillionaire, we want millions
of millionaires.
We'd rather democratize thisasset.
It's just now coming out fromgovernment monopoly and is now
(39:31):
starting to crank up what ittakes becoming hot.
Well, let's let regularinvestors have a crack at it,
and we love those investors.
They're super faithful And theyI believe it's like a political
campaign taking a bunch ofsmall contributions.
You're more powerful than acampaign driven by one guy's
(39:53):
wealth.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
For example, right.
Well, and it sounds like, too,there's this quality of
stewardship involved in that, inthat, if, if everyone is
involved in the process of use,utilizing and cultivating,
maintaining water in responsibleways, we all become much more
(40:16):
careful about how we utilize itand what we do to continue its
health.
If you will, that strikes me asa real.
I really applaud you for givinginto the forefront of helping
people to understand.
This is all going back to theoriginal question.
This isn't something we canjust whittle away or, you know,
(40:39):
treat flippantly.
It really is something that weall have a part in maintaining
it, so that you know, everyonehas the same access to life that
water provides for us, right?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Realistic though, businesses need to have ROI
right.
So, yes, they'll do beneficialthings, but if it doesn't work
financially, they'll be likeyeah, I don't know about that.
And so the fact that they canrecycle, which saves on water
rates, that they in thislong-term service contract, they
have predictable water rateindex, inflation index, as
(41:17):
opposed to the craziness that'sgoing on with water rates right
now, with this totallyuncontrolled these things and
also the ability to you knowit's very important that a
business knows that itsomebody's going to tell them.
Nobody can tell them.
No, we won't take your waterright, because that's going on
right now.
(41:37):
Municipalities are overloadedand they're saying we can't take
your dirty water And this isgoing well.
What am I doing with it now?
And they're tracking it to theother county.
This is happening all the time.
Well, once you get your ownsystem, no more dependency.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, doesn't worry, you can cut me off if you want
to, because I'm already cut offmyself.
I have a friend that you knowinstalled all renewable energy
sources at his house and hefinally talks about the day that
the utilities guy came over andwas looking all around the
house, you know, looking for ameter, and he couldn't find it
and he waited long enough forthe the guy to.
He would have figured it outeventually.
(42:13):
But he came out and said whatare you looking for?
And he said well, you're meter.
Yeah, where's your meter?
He said I don't have a meter,i'm all on my own, see, ya, so
it was a great day.
So how about you know the Bideninfrastructure bill?
as I understand it, had somereally key incentives built into
(42:35):
it for water infrastructure.
Do you think that is a?
you know?
is that something we should, asa Republican or Democrat, that
people should be getting behind,or is it not sufficient enough?
Is it just kind of a band-aidwhen there's really much more
serious surgery necessary?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
I'm sitting here on a calculator looking at there we
go There's 120, it's 1.2trillion dollars, right?
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I want to make sure I got another million, billion,
trillion, a few too many digits.
Okay, 1.2 trillion dollars wasthe administration divided by 55
billion, which is what,fortunately, was water right,
and it goes in 2000, over 2000times.
(43:27):
So what water got was what went2000,.
Literally, you can have 2000times water's share of that bill
to get to that bill.
People don't realize how much atrillion dollars is right.
So the point I'm making is that55 billion was meaningless in
the context of the waterindustry is falling behind by
(43:49):
$100 billion every year.
So the water now.
Was it helpful?
Yes, because there's a bigfocus on lead remediation, which
is vital, but it really didnothing for the infrastructure
itself.
And our theory is like look,don't try and rebuild the
infrastructure, it's going totake 30 years, it'll take
trillions of dollars.
(44:10):
Instead, unburden it, unburdenthe infrastructure, take the
load off by having that happenremotely.
And that seems to me that, forexample, in Miami-Dade County,
when they originally built thatcounty, they were sprawled in
the planet And so they have over100,000, what do you call it?
(44:35):
the subject tax And thosesubject tanks are leaking and
the water table is rising andit's all horrible.
And so the Miami-Dade wants tospend $8 billion is, they say,
six, but eight or more to sendsewage lines out to each of the
100,000 septic tanks.
(44:56):
Well, why not just give them arebate for just having a
standalone black water systemand then done right, instead of
tearing up the street andspending billions and 20 years?
But of course that's how theythink, the central guys think
central and they also love tohave the big, you know Contracts
that go along with it, so forth, sure, but you know at the end
(45:18):
of the day, it makes a lot ofsense for it to be um
decentralized, and thetechnology is there.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Well, it seems like um I think it's a Gates
foundation, didn't they?
they're doing similar umprojects in third world world
countries, trying to help them,uh, get a system that will allow
them to convert their sewagewhich oftentimes is just the
nearby brook or river, um, andbe able to not only take care of
that sewage and manage thatbetter, but also be able to
(45:48):
develop a clean water supply.
Um, so it strikes me thatthat's almost the Maybe that's.
The model we're working towardsis here in Prairie to Sack,
wisconsin, we would have our ownself sufficiency in water
supply and water treatment.
Is that seem like a Rationalapproach to this?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Well, i guess I don't mind communal water supply,
because that's, that's logical.
I don't want, i don't wantevery business to dig it so well
, necessarily, um, but we doneed to have um standalone water
treatment.
And you know, it's all verywell that foundations are paying
for things in Africa, but let'spay attention to what's going
on in north america, for god'ssake.
(46:28):
Yeah right, we have realproblems.
Flint is only the tip of theiceberg.
You know there's some terribleproblems throughout america that
are not really being discussedwith water quality.
Uh, south banda, which was abig manufacturing center, has
tremendous problems with thewater strata And we don't hear
about it.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
If there's someone out there listening right now
that just is not getting it.
Um, you know, that's just likeah, it rains all the time, you
know?
or you know all this alarmiststuff about water.
Yeah, come on, is theresomething you would point to?
or is there A question youwould ask to get them to wake up
(47:09):
and realize that we're talkinglife and death Ultimately, i
mean, at the end of the day, wehave to figure this out, because
water Is not inexhaustible.
Um, you know, yeah, we candesalinize oceans, but you know
we're not going to solve theproblem, um, by not addressing
it head on.
What?
what is that problem?
(47:29):
or what it's the problem withpeople not embracing this?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Let's do the easy stuff first.
Desalination is expensive andit's an energy hog, right.
Look at, look at um san jacobcounty.
You know the Colorado riverwater Costs as little as 25
dollars an acre foot an acrefoot is just to give you an idea
is, um, roughly what a familyof four can live off needs in a
(47:53):
year.
Okay, so that's an acre foot.
So, um, but that um, san JuanCapistrano desal plant is $1350
per acre foot.
That's expensive stuff.
So now your water bill is kindof rocket.
Why not recycle?
It's so easy.
Do the recycling thing.
(48:14):
You know it's like you reallywant to make it expensive.
And, by the way, the Huntingtonbeach desal plant, after 10
years of development, gotcancelled Because of because of,
uh, neighborly pressure.
So that's not a solution.
So start doing the the thingsthat make sense.
And, furthermore, any percentof all water in the world, of
(48:34):
all sewage in the world, is nottreated at all.
It's dumped.
Do you really want to live insewage?
because that's what it's goingto be.
Image.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, all I need to do is watch a couple of
documentaries about that sort ofthing, and I think that that
woke me up.
I was already a wakenedsomewhat, but, um, riggs were
out of time.
I can't believe the the an hourgoes by as quickly as it does.
Maybe that's our great resourcethat we need to figure out a
way to recycle is time, so, sowe can spend more of it on the
(49:02):
things that really matter, likediscussions about stuff that
will Kill us if we don't attendto them, right?
So, uh, riggs echelberries butmy guess he's a nationally
renowned entrepreneur Dedicatedto revolutionizing the water
industry, and we've gotten justa tip of that iceberg, of what
that looks like in a waterrevolution.
But, riggs, i can't thank youenough for your time.
I know you're a busy man.
(49:22):
You've got lots of obviouslybig things going on.
Um, i can only wish you thebest of luck in those endeavors
and, uh, i hope this little timetogether will help to wake some
people up as well.
It maybe just make them think alittle bit.
That's always a good thing aswell, right?
Speaker 2 (49:38):
And if they want to invest in the new asset water,
just go to originclearcom Greenbutton at the top.
at the top invest now.
We'd welcome your investment.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah Well, get involved.
Right, it's a grassroots effort, if not a, uh, a drip drop
effort, i'm not sure what wewould call it so.
So thank you very much.
Thank you, take care, andthanks for listening and to us
on frame of reference.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.