August 11, 2023 • 55 mins
It's high time we pulled back the veil on the darkened narrative of racism and its impact on people of color. Today's episode is a deep-dive into how history has been manipulated, and the damaging half-truths that have resulted. We look at how these distortions have permeated our collective consciousness, and challenge you to explore deeply ingrained biases and insecurities.
As we expose the harsh realities of racism and the psychological effects it has, we also shine a light on the potential for change. This is not about being 'non-racist', but 'anti-racist', fully understanding and confronting white privilege and its implications. We examine the laws limiting the movements of people of color and the reaction of white nationalists in attempting to rewrite history - but we also invite you to be a part of the solution.
Finally, we encourage you to join us in the journey toward empathy and understanding. We discuss the power of confession, the importance of open dialogue, and the strength in recognizing our shared human experience. Together, we can challenge the narrative, expose lies, and shape a more nuanced understanding of our history. Tune in and let's move towards a brighter, more inclusive future.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Let's have it Well good afternoon, good evening,
good morning, whenever you'relistening to this podcast, right
Cause we just don't know, do weAntoine?
Do we know when they'relistening?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
No, we don't, and we just hope you all listening.
That's all that matters, justlisten.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, we hope you're listening from Germany or from,
you know, saskatchewan orwherever you're listening from,
cause you know, lord knows weare saying important things,
aren't we?
Are we?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh yeah, oh yes, yes, yes, life changing things,
things that could change thetrajectory of communities and
futures Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Wouldn't that be wonderful.
So we're just, we're puttingthat all out there because we're
not here to just kind of, youknow, stroke ourselves.
Here we're, antoine and I.
We have no egos that we need toboost, except to see the
kingdom of God and the kingdomof truth reign over a time where
(01:05):
there are a few people that arewilling to stand up, even
people that are supposedly, youknow, men and women of God, that
are willing to stand up and saythis this isn't right.
There's something this does notfit with the gospel.
I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Absolutely right.
The Bible says the world iswaiting for the manifestation of
the sons of God, those thatkept their Lord's commandments
and are applying them.
Love God with all your heart,mind, soul and strength, and
loving people as you loveyourself.
We have fulfilled everything,but we're not loving.
That's what.
That's what.
That's what the root thingwe're not loving.
We haven't been loving as acountry for ever.
(01:42):
So that's what?
All right.
Well, I mean right.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I mean you see that manifested in all kinds of ways.
You know if you're going toyou're going to love people.
One of the first things you youtry to do, I mean, I think, is
you, you know, like, think ofyour family members when they
get into, you know, badsituations.
You know loving them isn'tstarting out by saying you know,
I told you that was thestupidest thing you ever could
have done.
Loving on people in thosesituations is it looks more like
(02:09):
you know, gosh, that soundsawful.
You know what?
What?
Tell me more about whathappened.
You know what?
What were you doing?
And you may, you may, bethinking that's the stupidest
thing anyone could ever do, butyou don't understand the whole
situation.
And until you ask the questionsand until you, you show empathy
for the fact that, hey, theymade a dumb decision.
(02:29):
I don't remember me ever beingabsolved or you know, immune to
making dumb decisions myself.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Right, I made a few at old.
So absolutely yeah, still dosome time.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Just a few, right, oh jeez.
So, anyways, why?
What are we doing here, antoine?
What?
What is the purpose of thisbroadcast?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
This is a frame of reference coming together.
You know where you got an olderwhite guy, a semi-old black guy
.
Hey, come on.
Yeah, that's not there.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, Older white guy , a semi-older.
Why don't you just say a youngstud of a black guy in an old?
Yeah, we should, we should dosomething like that.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I, I, I, I, I, I.
Like I said I crossed 50, uh,my wife is like, okay, you're
hanging up the cake, you know.
It's like, you know, my body istelling me the same.
It's like, uh, hanging up thegame, the thing you did at 30.
Nope, and the thing you did at24.
Nope, what, what's that?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Have you ever seen the Incredibles?
We're, we're, uh, oh God, yougotta see that movie.
There's a point where, uh, MrFreeze is like woman, where's my
super cape?
Okay, so she's like you, don't,don't you dare take that toe
with me.
It's just a whole area, so, butuh, anywho, yeah, we do.
I have to hang up.
(03:44):
Hang up my cape a long time ago.
If I had, if I had kept my cape, maybe I would have flown all
the way to that garbage can.
That struck my head a couple ofweeks back, Don't know for sure
.
Anyways, yes, frame ofreference, You're coming
together today.
Uh, I asked if we could talkabout a subject which is gets a
(04:07):
lot of people's rankles up.
I think, um, and I'm all forgetting rankles up, because the
only way you deal with things isto get rankles up.
It's like, uh, alcoholics,anonymous, you don't.
You don't get better from beingan alcoholic until you can
recognize that you're analcoholic, and that's why they
say hey, hello, my name's Rauland I'm an alcoholic Cause you
(04:29):
have to recognize it, andeveryone that I've known that
went through a.
As said, it wasn't comfortable.
You know coming to grips withthat, agreeing, you know
recognizing it, One of thehardest things they did.
So the same as true.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
First thing is confessing it.
Right, you have to confess itand acknowledge it and confess
it and be like, yeah, that's howyou start to go through it.
Yeah, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And you end up being uh.
In this case, we're talkingabout another one of those
things that gets rankles up, andthat's the narrative of racism,
the narrative of, uh, you knowhow black history and how our,
our country's, racial historyhas played out, and how easy it
(05:13):
is to change that narrative tomake it, uh, sound better than
it was and to uh somehow justifywhat was, and that that's sort
of like saying, um, I was tryingto think of a good example
without being really awful, butit'd be sort of like, um, you
know yeah good.
(05:35):
I mean, I keep thinking ofthings like you know, rape and
how you know you try to turn arape into a good thing by you
know saying, well, I mean, hewas a really handsome man, oh,
great, fantastic, yeah, that'swonderful, he's a really
handsome man and that shouldmake me feel better about the
rape, right?
Um, or, you know, he taught meafter he raped me.
He taught me how to basketweaves and I didn't know how to
(05:57):
basket we've and that's moreappropriate for the, what we're
talking about today, I think.
Ultimately, or at least theevent that prompted me thinking
about the um and I am talkingabout and I called this up so I
could read it exactly but, um, afew weeks back, uh, governor
DeSantis out of Florida made, uh, a comment regarding, uh, a new
(06:17):
rule or a set of of curriculumrules that were put into place
in Florida and they have to dowith how the curriculum is, uh
is taught, the key points intheir uh.
You know talking about blackhistory and black the, the
things that have happened toAfrican-Americans over history,
and let me just take a secondhere and call this thing.
So here's the story.
(06:39):
Uh, this is taken from Reuters.
So hopefully, uh.
I guess I don't know enough toknow whether or not people think
Reuters is overly, uh, liberalor not, but Reuters has an
international irreputation of ofreporting the news.
Yeah, so in Reuters on July 20ththey reported that Florida's
(06:59):
board of education has approvednew guidelines for teachers on
how black American historyshould be taught, despite sharp
criticism from some educatorsand civil rights group.
Among the new guidelines are eduh are for educators, our
benchmark clarification,including one for the middle
school students that statesinstruction includes how skills
(07:21):
slaves developed, skills which,in some instances, could, could
be applied for their personalbenefit.
Let's think about that.
Instruction includes how slavesdevelop skills which, in some
instances, could be applied fortheir personal benefit.
(07:41):
I want to address somethingright away on that, and this is
the insidious way that a lot ofthis stuff works is that there
is and people may hate me forthis, but there is some grain of
truth in that, and from myperspective, that's how lies
really gain their power.
They encompass just enoughtruth.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
You broke up, so I didn't hear you, brother.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
There's a there's an issue with these kinds of
statements is that they theycontain just a little grain,
just a little smudging of truth,and that gives them their power
.
These kinds of statements don'thave any power if they're just
flat out lies.
I mean, people use flat outlies all the time, but what
they'll do and this is even moreinsidious is by using things
(08:29):
like black people developedskills yes, they there were
skills and in some instancescould be applied to their
personal benefit.
Now, the in the example I sawlater on is that the people that
were slaves, that learned howto be blacksmiths, could then
translate those skills as ablacksmith into other things
(08:51):
once they were not Remember thattime, blacks couldn't trade on
the open and in the, in theBelemage, blacks couldn't even
trade on the open market, sothey had to barter for things.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yes, that skill did come about.
However, how did it come about?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, and when you think about it, as a skill was
taught to benefit the master inhis household.
Exactly, you know, and thenRight, so you see what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
There's that grain of truth there that, yeah, that
thing did happen, but you got tothink about the context in
which it happened.
You know they were slaves.
They didn't have a choice ifthey didn't want to be, a choice
to learn.
If I don't want to be ablacksmith, it's going to hurt
my hands, it's horrible, it'ssuper hot.
Anyone never do anyblacksmithing work.
It's just some of the worstkind of work you can do.
(09:32):
That's why machines do it.
Now, you know.
So it's just.
I really hate how that sort ofthing is done over and over and
over again, where they take justsome little thing that you know
.
Yeah, there's just but.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But and this is, this is a, this is a kind of a
tactic.
You're starting to see this allover the place.
It's like a playbook.
You know they got.
You know it's like, you knowyou're trying to spend the thing
, you know, of course, like,again, because the whole purpose
of everything is to minimizeblack history.
It's the net, the whole controlof the narrative and what he's
(10:08):
going to do.
Because, again, someone like us,being 50 plus, right, we have a
hit read certain history books.
We know history, we got bookson our shelves like, say, but
now, say, the younger generation, who doesn't read or even care
about history as much, untilthey actually woke up, so to
speak.
You know the narrative caneasily be implanted in them.
(10:31):
And you know, and of course,it's just one of those things
where you know it's a oh, it's aoh uh African proverb, right,
it says until the lions havetheir own historian, the history
of the hunt will always glorifythe hunter.
And, of course, and that'sbasically a narrative, or is, is
, is a metaphor for how groupswith power and privilege control
(10:54):
historical narratives, andthat's what they're trying to do
.
Now, right, and of course, butthere, and the thing is, the
attack on this thing is soblatant now.
It's not even we're trying tohide it.
I mean, you might they might aswell just say that we're, we
want to kill black history, wedon't like black, brown color,
(11:15):
we don't like people of colorperiod.
They just need to just say,because that's the action, says
that, right, right.
That it's also like when weended the course, again trying
to control the narrative uh,cause, again like this now it's
like white people older, older,but let's say, people that are
on white, people that are on theright, they're fighting with
(11:36):
younger kids, the wokegeneration, right.
And so it's like we gotconflict on every side now.
And of course, you get.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It just irks me to how, the minute they say in that
section about that, someinstruction includes how slaves
developed skills.
Just break that down a littlebit.
When you, the minute you, starttalking about that sort of
thing, what you're trying to dois, as you said, minimize
(12:06):
Slave-wise.
You're trying to minimalize.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Change the narrative of it Right.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Right, I mean for anyone anywhere to think that
anything about being a slave waslike.
You know the way they paintthis.
You would think there wereblack slaves out in the you know
, doing blacksmith work, andthey're going.
Oh, thank God, my master taughtme how to be a blacksmith
Because now, when I'm not aslave, if I'm ever not a slave,
(12:31):
I'll be able to be a blacksmith.
I mean, you know, it's just,it's so weird.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
This is a narrative.
Yes, because the narrative hasbeen.
It's flipped into like thefifties and sixties, like if you
go to YouTube and you look upsome of these older white guys,
even back in the fifties andsixties.
It's one particular video thatburnt my toes.
It was a guy from North SouthCarolina, light blue suit,
talking about all the slavesliked it, they want it to be
(13:01):
here.
They're like no, they did not,they had no choice in the course
.
You know, recently, like well,in the Ken, people don't really
know the history because, like,when you talk about why hit
slaves, some ran, they were likeyou know what I'm getting out
of here, but why some didn't run.
It was called buck breaking.
You know, you tie a slave up tofour horses and rip his body
(13:21):
apart in front of his family andthen you tell the black woman
to teach the black boy that ifyou do this, this is what's
going to happen to you.
And so that's why, people, youkind of beat and beat people
into submission and just slay,kill them, beat them into
submission.
And now the narrative wants tobe changed because, again, like
(13:41):
even with this narrative, like,oh, they gained some skill, we.
They gained skills.
Through racism, through slavery, they gained skills, but the
same skills did not allow themto get homes when the homestead
that came about.
All because they wereagricultural workers, they were
indentured servants and theywere domestic servants.
(14:01):
So they just they weredisqualified for no homestead,
like getting free land.
So, and again, it's like so forthem to say that they gave us a
skill or gave black people askill at that time.
I'm trying not to cuss.
I'm trying not to cuss.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, you're doing better than I would be doing,
that for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
And, and, and, and, and, but.
It's like again.
But we, you know again DaveChappelle said this a few years
ago when he came back on thescene we live in the age of spin
, deflection, projection.
What about isms?
You know it, just, it's a game,but the thing is it's, the
whole thing was perpetuated fromone side of the fence.
They created this thing, thisculture war.
(14:46):
It's, it's made, it's alwaysbeen here, it's just faced that.
But they 2016,.
It was made okay to say andshow how you really feel about
people.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And people continue to do it inthe most, you know, angry,
hateful ways possible, and I,you know, I'm faulting the
church as much as anything, ifnot more, because I agree the
church of Christ sits back andlets it happen, you know, and?
And instead of standing up andsaying this is wrong, not that.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Half of these militias are formed in these
Southern white churches.
They've actually gottenmilitias in their own little
military teams and that's thethat's the sad part about this
thing.
This thing is happening inchurches.
But you know, let's go back tothe church.
You know we talk about.
You know how Southern Baptistseparated from the Northern
Baptist because Southern Baptistown slaves and they want to
keep them and it's like no,that's, that doesn't go, that's
(15:42):
goes against the knowledge ofGod.
But anyway, right, I'm with youwhen you say that there's a
fault on every corner.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and you know, understanding how, taking taking
things and misconstruing in,you know, twisting them, that
that's an incredibly insidiousthing that you have to.
I mean, I seriously believethat that kind of statement,
that kind of of twisting oftruth around a well-crafted lie,
(16:13):
an incredibly well-crafted lie,is satanic.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean, there there's no, you have to thank you,
brother, for saying that.
You know the prince of thepower of the air, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, I mean we're.
And when, when you hear anyonesay things like well, some
slaves were treated so nicely bytheir, their masters, they
didn't mind at all.
They, they were, they were ingood position, I'm like wait a
minute, wait a minute, wait aminute, wait a minute, wait a
minute.
They were slaves.
What does that mean?
In in our country, it meantchattel slavery.
(16:46):
It meant that if you were aslave, you were a thing you
weren't.
You weren't a person, you werethree-fifths of a person.
You know so how do you, how?
What does three-fifths of aperson look like in real reality
?
That means that I don't have totreat you like a complete
person because you're onlythree-fifths of a person.
I mean, those fundamentalprinciples are are what we're
(17:09):
talking about when we try tominimize slavery.
And you know, am I.
I'm not banging people's heads.
I get so tired of this argumenttoo.
You know why do we have?
Everything is racist nowadays,you can't see anything without
being racist.
It's like okay, take a stepback.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Actually, that's that's.
I think that's a, that is a copout, and also I think it's kind
of false because you know,again this thing comes from one
side and it's just like whenpeople say they can't say
anything anymore.
Who, who they, who theyspeaking of.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, there's the one case of a guy I work with Right
now go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I'm sorry.
No, I was just saying.
There's a guy that I work withwho was just telling me and I
forget I should look up theactual event but there was a
situation where a guy wasdelivering something I think
like a UPS driver or somethingdelivering something, and he
said something to the guydelivering it in.
The guy that I forget who itwas the guy that was being
(18:06):
delivered to, or deliveringhaving it delivered to, made a
comment that the other persondidn't hear because they
actually had headphones at thetime, but they construed it to
be a racist comment.
And if I, it must have been thedriver that made the comment,
because that guy then lost hisjob as a result of having made a
racial slur that he says hedidn't make.
(18:27):
And how would he know if hemade it or not?
Because the guy had headphoneson.
And so they'll use exampleslike that, which, again, I can't
attest to if that even reallyhappened, because a lot of that
stuff has become like urbanmyths that get put out there to
make people you know feel like,oh, this is unjust too.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Look at what happens to us.
It's racism.
Yeah, it's like you're usingthat analogy the other day, like
the assault victim is actuallybecome the assault victim
becomes the Problem, so to speak.
Right, well, you shouldn't havebeen wearing that provocative
clothing right, right and, butthe thing is no what this whole
thing is about.
When the With this, uh, thegentleman, uh this I'm trying to
(19:12):
be nice the Santas that comment, you know that is not a word.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well, maybe call it mister.
Okay, maybe we have mister.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Okay, we have to look people right.
Yeah, the Bible does say placetrue pray for the authorities
that are above you.
All authority comes from him.
I'm like all right, lord, evenhim, and it's like yep, even him
.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I don't like it, but I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
But what he's doing is like.
What they doing, though, islike that they, they right, they
want to control the narrative,because the narrative, whoever
controls the narrative, controlsthe outcome.
And, of course, like withputting this stuff, they say,
okay, like they taking it, likethey replacing the beatings and
whoopings and all thehard-working things in the
history books About slavery, andthen replacing it with all they
(20:02):
learned skills, they Well givenhow they do this and that and
the other, and basically, again,that minimizing history.
But also, this is what you'redoing.
You're putting it in textbooksto create a collective memory.
Right, you take away one thingand replace it with another,
then put it in a book, and thenthat's what we're teaching.
That is good, that is the newhistory, because, like you say,
(20:23):
if we us right now, you and I, Idon't know 40, 50 years Lord
willing, I was still here, but Ithink we might be gone and then
, of course, that's what they'llbe reading 30, 40, 50 years
from now is oh, slaves weretreated good, they were in this
space, and that's that narrative, that it has to be crushed
(20:43):
right now.
That's why, you know, we it had.
There has to be such a defenseright now, because, again,
that's what this is all about.
You know, it's a basicallytaking racism or taking race out
of the, basically taking theblack struggle, black history,
everything and making itirrelevant, because the argument
is always going to be forequity and equality and
(21:05):
Reparations, and so you want tominimize, as you take away,
history.
And because, I look at, thiswhole thing is running out the
clock, you know you're kicking acan down the field.
There's things that are old,that I believe, there's things
that should be, there should besome kind of reparation to
people, but they're gonna kickthat can down the field and, at
(21:25):
the same time, change thehistory behind it.
So when actually theconversation is had, it's like
oh that, that that's not needed,that's not necessary.
So I think the no, we have to.
Really, I'm glad that the here,that the teachers and the
professors and the educators arestanding against this, and I
just think more people, just noneducators, just us as people,
(21:48):
need to stand against this aswell, because again, it's not
just happening in Florida oneget educated.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You know, that's the that.
One of the things that worriesme about Florida is there's
unprecedented numbers ofprofessionals leaving the state.
Doctors educators, professors,are just bailing on the state
because they can't.
They can't tolerate what's goingon and I appreciate the
sentiment of that and, at thesame point, I would encourage
(22:14):
people to Bolster themselves upand stand and fight, because if
we run from the fight, the bullyis gonna keep getting stronger
and the the reality is that,yeah, some of these people
they're getting emboldened tothe point where I mean we're
seeing things like the, ameteorologist in, you know, iowa
(22:34):
, that you know, quit his jobbecause he was being threatened
His family was being threatenedwith bodily harm because he
would he started talking aboutclimate change.
So, if that can happen, aboutsomething like climate change,
which you know if, whether ifyou believe it or not just talk
about is it good to be doingwhat we're doing to our Earth?
That it's the only place we allhave to live?
(22:55):
Are there sensible things we'redoing and nonsensible things?
And you know whether or not youbelieve that, you know we're
making a difference in or not,it still makes sense to just
treat the planet and treat ourenvironment, treat our resources
with respect, just believe that, why not?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
why not Use what the earth gives us for energy?
The water that a currentunderneath gives us can give us
energy.
The sun, I can give us energywithout.
So do it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It's so silly so if they can do that, if they can
drive weathermen out of theiryou know houses and jobs in Iowa
, iowa, okay, not, you know, notsome.
You know we're not talkingAlabama or Mississippi, you know
we're talking Iowa.
So if they can do that for thatin Iowa, am I saying that
(23:44):
enough?
Am I saying that I, oh, wow, soI, oh wins.
Okay, how, how much more arethey gonna do something with
something that really has someteeth to it, like slavery, I
mean there and in a?
Do we believe, belabor this toomuch?
I don't think you can belaborsomething that is this big of a
(24:06):
stain on our history and I don'tthink it's gonna get me better,
unless we admit that.
You know there's a problem here.
Look at, you know, criticalrace theory.
People are, you know, gettingjust losing their Marbles at
school board meetings becauseyou know we can't teach this
critical race theory.
It's Marxist and it's gonnaruin our kids and it's just
(24:28):
demonic.
From if I, you know they're notteaching critical race theory
in schools.
They're not, no dude.
Critical race theory is barelyunderstood by PhD students at
university.
It's a discussion topic thatasks people to look at factors
in our society, in our systems,that may be encouraging or
(24:49):
allowing Racist ideologies tocontinue.
Now, if there's none there,great.
If we've done the research andwe can show great not there,
well, that would be one thing.
But if we investigate and wefind that there is stuff there,
again, let's just look at thesethings to what keeps getting us
in trouble as we go.
Oh, I don't feel good.
(25:10):
I didn't.
I'm I'm.
I'm a nice white person, I haveblack friends, I'm a, I'm a
good person.
Okay, all right.
Okay, let's your good person,are you?
It's not enough to be Notracist anymore, you have to be
anti racist.
You know, an anti racist meansyou come up against any shape
(25:30):
form of it and you say you knowwhat that's kind of a racist
comment.
You know what that's kind of aracist bug?
No, it's not.
Well, let's take it apart alittle bit and see, I know maybe
you didn't mean it as a racistthing and I'll give you that
benefit of the doubt.
But the fact that you'regetting all bent out of shape
because I'm pointing out thatit's racist is not a good sign.
(25:51):
That's kind of like thealcoholic that gets told you,
don't you think you had enoughenough?
You know Tequila right now?
Oh, no, I know tequila Me.
Oh, I know how I handle mytequila.
Well, you know.
Probably not a good time totalk to the tequila drinker when
(26:11):
they're like that.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But you know, and it's almost like when the
teaching of a DEI diversity,equity and inclusion really
start to take form and take noLike, companies started to do it
in the federal government,acknowledged that they needed
that training and all these kindof things.
And then, of course, both sidesthat said, hey, we need this,
we desire this.
Great.
(26:32):
Then the groups that said, youknow, this is not necessarily,
we don't need it, I don't likeit.
What they do.
They take the context of it.
It is almost like when you starttalking about white privilege,
you start talking aboutunconscious and conscious biases
and things like that.
It's almost like these thingsare done deliberately.
Yeah, so you can spark up the.
That was racist.
No, it's not.
(26:52):
And it's like.
You know they, it's like amocking.
You know what I mean Becauseit's it's like a mocking.
You know we, what we're talkingabout here is like it almost it
goes back to the Civil War.
Like we're talking aboutchanging the narrative, right,
because the history books, evenback then it was going to
reframe and reshape Americans'thought-owned slavery.
(27:16):
They try to make the horrors ofslavery into this positive
institution.
You know it's like, but that'snot the case.
And again, we're just seeing itbeing perpetuated.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Now I'm just looking up something here.
Yeah, yeah, laws prohibiting.
There's a law that I don'tthink people realize just how
far back this thing goes andit's seeing.
If that comes up here, Ibelieve it's back in laws in.
(27:49):
It was on the eastern coastlike Maryland or Connecticut and
the I've got to look that up.
It goes way back that there,where it started in laws is
several black people initiallycame to the country I don't know
how many hundreds it was, butthey came because it was a land
(28:09):
of new potential and they becamevery successful at things like
tobacco farming.
So there were some instances ofthat happening.
Well, there was so much alreadysystemic feelings of we don't
trust these people, they're darkskin, they're not like us that
they passed a law that said ifany black person was on the
streets after nine o'clock theycould be stopped and arrested by
(28:34):
pretty much any white person.
So there was already a systemput in place to say we don't
like having these black peopleon the streets at night.
We feel threatened by them, sowe want the ability to arrest
them and tell them you have tostay off the streets To have it
be that far back that this iswell before anything like
(28:56):
slavery, indentured servitudewas there, but I don't know if
we probably were alreadyimporting people to have them
work on plantations.
But you can see how deeply thatwhole thing goes and I don't
want to.
I won't try to self-flatulateeither.
I won't whip myself for being awhite person.
(29:18):
That's not the point, it's not.
Don't feel bad about being awhite person.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Feel bad about the fact that black people still are
not getting the same shot atthings and the thing is, all you
want, I guess, at the end ofthe day, is for someone to
acknowledge that, tell the truthabout it, Because you think
about even like you ever seenthe movie Rosewood.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
About the slaughter in Florida.
It's probably I can't rememberthe timeframe, but it's either I
almost want to say it's alittle bit before Greenwood in
Oklahoma.
But at the end of the movie, ofcourse, reparations were made
for that community, all thepeople that were that got killed
by the white mob.
But then the United Statesgovernment writes a letter in
(30:08):
2002 or 2012 or whatever it was,and they acknowledge it, but
they just apologize for it,basically.
But they wouldn't acknowledgeit because again in that letter,
if they acknowledge it, theyknow that reparations were due
to the rest of the country.
But if you go, I'm almost gotto go back and watch that movie
just to get that letter from thegovernment at the end.
(30:29):
But again, it's this narrativethat it goes way back even again
, goes so far back.
Have you heard of that lostcalls narrative?
They were trying to do way backwhen.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Not ringing a bell.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, just to pull this thing up and of course I
was reading before we came on itwas like talking about how
white supremacists usedtextbooks as a vessel for
neo-Confederate collectivememory.
During this period,neo-confederates and Reactionary
and Revisionary branch ofAmerican white nationalism
campaign for a narrative calledlost calls, a myth which was a
(31:08):
psychological response to thetrauma of defeat.
The lost calls attempted topreserve the honor of the South
by casting the Confederatedefeat in the best possible
light.
Two of the main components ofthe myth of the lost calls are
that the South's concession fromthe Union had little or nothing
to do with the institution ofslavery and, number two,
(31:31):
enslaved people benefited fromslavery due to benevolent slave
owners.
That was a narrative that theytried to create.
Even back in they campaigned it.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Read that second part again about benevolence.
I want to get that in my brainbetter.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
The two myths were the South's concession from the
Union had little or nothing todo with the institution of
slavery, and two enslaved peoplebenefited from slavery due to
benevolent slave owners.
Doesn't that ring a bell towhat that Joker is saying right
now?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, benefited yeah benefited from slavery.
Right, right, I benefited, Iboy.
You know, I'll give people thefact that when you think, when
you really stop to think aboutthose things, they're awful,
they're just awful.
There's no way to feel goodabout that.
And I part of the problem wehave white people have I know I
(32:36):
even have it still is thatbecause we think of racism as
being binary, we think of itbeing if you're a racist, you're
a bad person, and if you're, ifyou can say you're not racist,
then you're a good person, andmost good people don't want to
think about them being badpeople, themselves being bad
people.
Well, I don't know about youguys, but I'm 63 and I have,
(32:57):
well long ago, have accepted thefact that I try to be a good
person.
But there are times when I amnot a good person.
There are times when I lose mytemper, there are times when I'm
super selfish, there are timeswhen I, you know, do things that
I wish I hadn't done, and I,you know, some of them I do over
and over again.
So, and yet I still try to clingon to the fact that I'm a good
(33:19):
person for the most part, I hope.
But I also know that any goodthat's in me come doesn't come
from me.
So that acceptance of the factthat it maybe I am.
Maybe I am still racist, and Iknow that I am because I can
think of a couple of months, ayear or so ago.
I was walking down the streetwalking my dog and a young black
man was walking down the streetacross from me and he had a
(33:41):
hoodie on and I I had a reactionto that of being, oh, I hope
he's.
Oh my, there was like a fearthing that started, as we all
are seeing a young black manwith a hoodie on and like, okay,
what is wrong with me?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
What is wrong.
And again it's like these things, these behaviors, these images,
like you know, of course, likethis one thing, like I'm in the
northeast part in the course ofWisconsin now, but we travel
even to like places like Bloomer, wisconsin, and I'm talking to
people that have never met ablack person in their life, but
(34:21):
they have a preconceived notionor thought based on what they've
seen on TV or what they'veheard from another person.
And again, it's like this islike the human psyche, right,
where a person will believe abad thing they hear before they
believe a good thing they see.
And then it's like when wecause you know how, like they
(34:42):
say, oh, a bad word spreadfaster than the good word, right
?
So it's like we'll take thatbad thing that we hear and we
hold on to it and but yet, likesay you're show, you're being
shown a different behavior, adifferent attitude, a different
character, characteristic orwhatever, but yet you want to
hold on to that bad word.
So what you want to do is takethat bad word and you want to
(35:02):
try to reframe what you'reseeing and what happens to
people.
They become offended becausewhat they are here and what
they're seeing don't match andthey're trying to make what they
heard match what they see,versus trying to make what they
see.
Try to make what they see matchwhat they heard.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I'm saying it back but yeah, no, I mean, I think
it's like when you have anargument, when I have an
argument with my wife, and shepoints out something about my
behavior that's inconsistentwith what I'm saying, and then I
have to go oh yeah, why is thatinconsistent?
But I usually don't go that way.
What I do is try to prove thatthere is a reason why what I say
(35:40):
I want and the inconsistentbehavior are really the same
thing.
They really are, and I, youknow, the thing that I said is
really true, and that behaviorthing.
Well, I just had really thoughtabout, you know, and it's just,
it's so common that for us tonot want to admit that, well, I,
my words should match myactions.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
And but no, I guess, like, what I was trying to
explain to a brother is like andmaybe I did a poor job of doing
that but all I'm trying to sayis like people will believe a
bad thing, believe a bad wordabout something, before they see
the good in that same verything.
Like, say, we're talking like ablack guy, you know, in Bloomer
, wisconsin, you know I'mtalking to these white folks in.
(36:20):
It's like they're like lookingshocked because I can complete a
sentence.
No, I got my haircut, I'mshaved, you know.
It's like I got a belt on, youknow, and it's like my wife and
I were holding hands and it'slike it, what they saw, just
crushed their very Perception orimage of what they've seen and
(36:41):
heard.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah and that's wherepeople like again.
It's like some people becomeoffended and they can't deal
with that, so they'll just somepeople just tune out, they just
like I don't care either way.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, or they try to find a way to make it fit their
narrative.
You know, there it is, sothey're just the biggest thing
right.
Well, you know they're just.
There's something wrong there.
They're just trying to looklike they're, you know, regular
folks.
They're not.
I mean, there's all kinds ofways that we can work our brains
around.
You know, something we'vealready decided is true
(37:16):
Absolutely.
The hardest thing to provewrong is a person that believes
they're right.
You know so.
It's just.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Started way back, you know with the dehumanization of
black folks, you know withslavery, and then, of course,
with that movie when it depicteda slaves raping white women and
just and that career.
Exactly.
And then, of course, because,again, at the end of the day,
you know, this White supremacyis what this is what we're
(37:44):
seeing at work right now whitesupremacy and it's it's got
grassroots into lower Casepeople or like, say, a different
class of people is rooted inthe church and then, of course,
you got these people ingovernment again.
And that's the sad part because, like, say, a minority business
(38:05):
owner going to a bank orwhatever for a loan, and then
you come across someone with thewrong mentality.
It just sets you back.
But white supremacy is alive,is real and as well, and it's
meant to distort the ideology,you know, of how people think,
and it's actually and it'sradicalizing some of these kids,
and I don't, it's just, it's asad, you know, because again,
(38:28):
it's like it just I just cannotgather or fathom how you can
look at another human being andand and treat them like dirt and
look that like them and look atthem like they're left a stand.
No, I think I told us.
No, I think I told this storybefore With you row, but there
was another.
It was just like treatingpeople.
(38:49):
It's like okay, treating like.
It's like the.
When I went a couple theymistreated the server so bad
that you know we would never goout with that couple again.
But also I had to go back inand I just had to talk to that
server and say that's not howthings really are.
You know what I mean.
So, but with this thing, whenI'm talking about right, you
know it's like you treating aperson Based on what they do for
(39:12):
a living, not who they are as aperson.
Yeah, because that's what thisthing is you looking at me based
on the color of my skin, notwho I am as an individual right.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Well, it takes time to get to know the individual.
It's really easy.
Yes, we, we, we tend to want totake the simplest path in most
things.
I get you mentioned the DWGriffith is the name of the
filmmaker that made birth of anation, and you know that.
Yeah, there's yet another pointwhere you can look at that and
there, you know, earlier 1900s,19, I had an O14, something like
(39:46):
that and that film, you know itdoes it as a.
It basically glorifies the KuKlux Klan.
They're they're seen, as youknow, the great warriors, the
great defenders of white societyand you know, civilization.
And Then there's a scene whereone of the things that they do
to Show how they're keeping oursociety safe, as there's a scene
(40:07):
of a black man Trying to rape awhite woman and, in order to
evade, avoid getting raped, shethrows herself off a cliff.
The guy that is supposed to bea black man is a white man in
blackface.
So, yes, you know they're.
They're taking a situationwhere, you know, back then,
blackface was considered anacceptable thing to do For
entertainment, because youcouldn't let black people
(40:28):
perform, but there were timeswhen you needed a black
Performance or you know, assomebody, that that would look
like black, and so they doblackface.
So here they are in a moviedoing the same thing.
The most reprehensible thing is,as if that wasn't bad enough,
president Woodrow Wilson at thattime saw the film and decided
that it should be shown at theWhite House, and it was given a
(40:51):
private White House screening.
And after seeing that and youshould look up the exact quote
but Wilson said that it was agreat American film and then it
should be seen throughout theland by everyone.
So here you have a president.
Woodrow Wilson is consideredone of the more intellectual
Presidents we ever had.
He's considered one a greatstatesperson in so many ways,
(41:14):
and yet somebody that was thateducated could be led to Make a
decision after seeing a movielike that that that's okay and
that that's actually a greatfilm.
And in fact, dw Griffith wasrenowned as one of the great
filmmakers of the early filmindustry.
He developed some techniquesand things that are still used
today and he was a pioneer.
(41:35):
All that good stuff, right, butit shows you again how how this
thing works.
Here's an educated man whobecomes president of the United
States and yet he can think andthat this is a great movie.
Well, okay, you can give himall kinds of you know, get out
of jail cards.
It wasn't that far after theCivil War, yada, yada, yada.
(41:56):
I mean there's you know allkinds of excuses for that, but
there really isn't any excuse.
It really isn't.
And we're still using the samedang excuses today to keep from
thinking about how bad racism is.
And if, if we were still doingthings in our society if we are
still doing things in oursociety Make alcoholism okay, if
(42:17):
we're still doing things tomake Perversion of children okay
, if we we want to do thosethings, we would stomp those out
.
We have enough collectiveconscience to realize that no,
you can't teach kids.
It's okay to become analcoholic, you cannot.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
So why can't you turn off some of these cartoons
today?
Oh yeah, they're not cartoons,no more.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
No, well, and why would you teach, allow something
like that to be taught?
And it's, how is it differentto allow Racism be taught as
something where you know theylearned?
They learned good skills whenthey were slaves and some of
them were treated really welland they would never run away
because they enjoyed it so much.
It's like who's gonna run awaywhen they hear about their you
(43:01):
know husbands being drawn andquartered?
Who's gonna run away?
You know I I'm not gonna.
You know the people yet stilldid.
I mean, area Dubman was aTestimony to how many people did
run away and she thankfully didsomething to try to help them
get safely away.
But even then I mean it's justoh yeah, I mean I feel like I'm,
(43:22):
I don't know, alone well in thewilderness or something,
because I'm sure there lots, ifthere are white people listening
right now they're thinkingyou're a traitor, you're not a
real white person, you're one ofthose you know feminates or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And the thing is it's like I look at you, brother,
and say that you a man at thegods on heart, man, you can
confess your faults and you canactually get it right and go and
not make the same mistake twice.
You know, look at King David.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Oh, my wife would say no, I make the same mistake
twice I.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Haven't seen your brother, I've seen nothing but
good in you, and.
But I want to read somethinghere else, man, I saw this thing
on racism.
It says racism is in fact, notjust a byproduct of white
supremacist ideology but asubsequent culmination of
(44:13):
ignorance and fear and a psychoemotional detachment from the
broader community of humanity.
And an holistic understandingof our tangible Commonalities in
life therefore coerce to adaptto a non-conscious bias and
false reality.
Does that sound familiar?
Because I mean, we've watched aalternate reality just pop up
(44:37):
right before our eyes, right,and then that's the second, the
second part of this.
It says this person who'swriting his name is a cuckoo I
can't pronounce the last name,but a cu?
Cu.
But the second part, that is, inmy opinion, races are scared
and filled with fear, loss andemptiness that are often
associated with the skewedUnderstanding and purpose of
(44:58):
human relationships.
I also believe races asindividuals with experiences of
potholes in life.
Who has had an experience ofrejection and or dejection, in
other words, a racist is anindividual who, in my opinion,
is most likely challenged byidentity crisis, low self-esteem
(45:18):
and mental weakness, a lack ofbelonging to a beloved community
, thus forced to live theillusion of a manufactured
consent based on false pretextsand notion.
Any thoughts?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Well, it seems to me there's a lot of things, a lot
of ills in our world, in ourcountry and everywhere that are
fueled by insecurities and Iagree, and I don't know of any
real lasting security that comesfrom anywhere.
But recognizing that we have aloving God and that's the thing.
(45:58):
You know, I remember my mom onher deathbed.
You know, like a day or twobefore she died, she asked me
she didn't understand one thingshe had never figured out
through her life and my mom hadbeen, you know, as good a
Catholic girl as a Catholic girlcan be and, you know, tried to.
You know she did the rosary,she did nobina.
I mean she was on top of makingher faith, putting some, you
(46:23):
know, feet to it, some legs toit.
But she said she'd neverunderstood all of her life how
God could let his son suffer theway that he did and to let him
die like he did.
And I said, mom, you're missingthe whole point.
I said God loved us so muchthat he gave his only begotten
(46:43):
son so that we could be saved.
That's how much.
That it's not about.
He loved his son.
Of course he loved his son andit broke his heart in every
which way we can possiblyimagine, by letting his son be
sacrificed.
But he also knew his son wasgoing to a better place at the
end of the world.
But he loved him enough, heloved us enough to let that
happen.
So the same is true with, Ithink, any of these folks that
(47:07):
are so insecure about thingsthat they need to, you know,
lash out the way that they doand they need to justify their
biases.
So you know, vehemently and sodynamically, that it comes down
to just not loving yourselfenough, not allowing yourself to
be loved to be able to say,yeah, I want to do something
(47:29):
about that.
That does happen.
I do see that I try not toparticipate in it in myself.
I really do.
But I also know that I'mprobably missing 90% of what
happens around me and notstanding up and saying, hey, you
can't do that.
He's a person you don't get tonot put their change in their
(47:49):
hand.
When you're putting everybodyelse's change in their hand, is
that right?
Are you afraid of touching ablack person?
What's the deal?
I don't get it.
You don't have to be combativeto be, you know, illuminating
the situation.
Maybe they're not even aware, Idon't know, you know, maybe
they are aware.
But you know, call it out, justlike you'd call out bad
behavior.
If a you know young man wasleering at your daughter and you
(48:11):
know, you could see, becauseyou're a guy, you could see he's
mentally undressing her andimagine how you know fun it
would be to hit that?
Would you step out with any dadout there, not step up and say,
hey, hey, hey, you should lookat my daughter that way, don't
you dare?
Look at my daughter.
Well, I didn't do it Anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seenthat.
(48:31):
Look, I've had that.
Look, I know what that lookslike, buddy.
So you know, can we at least setup and say, okay, maybe I don't
believe that it's all over theplace, but maybe I need to start
looking for it too.
Maybe I need to startchallenging my bias that says it
doesn't exist, or that, my biasthat says, well, some black
(48:53):
people really liked what theywere.
Huh, okay, no, really, show mea black person, please introduce
me to the black person.
It says oh, yeah, yeah, mygreat, great, great, great
grandma was a slave.
She loved it.
She was really sad when slaveryended.
Show me that, okay, because Ican guarantee you you're not
(49:13):
going to find it.
It's not okay.
No one, no one, no one, nowhite person anywhere would want
to be a slave.
We would not choose it.
We would not, because it meansyour property and we.
No one wants to be someoneelse's property and be treated
like a chair.
I'm done with that chair.
(49:33):
That chair's worn out, it's gotsprings popping out of it.
Get rid of it.
Oh well, you know, if it's ablack person.
Yeah, I mean if they can't workanymore, if I've beaten them
into the point where they can'twork anymore.
I can get rid of them.
I can shoot them, I can dowhatever I want, because they're
my property.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
No, Well, yeah, man, that thing goes all the way back
to reconstruction, right, yeah,and before, you know when we're
talking about, and before,absolutely, you know, of course,
with the reconstruction, no,even like, again, just like the
white suddeners who refused toadopt to the vision of a more
racially just nation, right,they couldn't do that.
So what they did to oppose it,you know, of course, they used
(50:13):
physical violence, you know, Ilied, ku Klux Klan and whatever
other groups, just racialviolence.
And they also used theirpolitical power to play the lone
game to undo any kind of racialprogress being made.
And we see that today, again,they've been playing this game
forever.
And the thing is, it's justamazing how we have not passed a
(50:37):
voting law, even though theConstitution gives us a right to
vote.
Yet why isn't there not afederal protection that gives us
all the right to vote free andfairly?
You know, and that's againthese things are, some of these
things are so blatant becausethe things that are being fought
against tells you who they are.
They are Right, we're countingdown the number of people.
(50:59):
How can you lose?
I mean, what do you?
Of course they're going to losetheir power if more people of
color vote against what they'redoing because of the behaviors
they've exhibited, because againit goes back.
You know, they plan a political, political lone game to undo
any kind of racial progress.
And this is us.
We're praying, we're praying.
(51:21):
This is why we pray, man, amen,this is why we pray.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Things can't stay the way they are.
I mean you want to make anAmerica great again.
Let's make America great.
Let's just forget about theagain part of it, because that
implies that somewhere we werebetter than we are now, and now
is all we got.
So let's just make Americagreat.
We can't go back to the fifties.
People say, oh, like it was backin the fifties and the sixties.
(51:48):
Oh, you mean like when theywere still hanging black people,
when they were still making itreally hard for women to work
out of the home, when they weremaking sure that, you know,
everyone everywhere, you know,was just, you know, treated like
chattel.
I mean, I don't know.
(52:09):
I mean you can look at anyperiod of time and say what was
so great about that.
I mean you have fond memoriesof being a kid in the fifties
and you think it was sowonderful.
You know well, if you were anadult back in the fifties, you
probably have a much differentview of what things were like
back, you know, being a kid andhaving those rosewood glasses
that see, you know how things wewant to see.
(52:30):
I don't know.
I'm struggling here becausethis is just a tough topic.
It's another one we have tocome back to if we're going to
say, let's come back to it.
You know it's just a.
Just just think about for asecond how history is written by
the victors.
Any war that's ever taught tous, it's written by the victors.
(52:51):
They didn't go back, you know,to Napoleon's army after they
lost the war in the 1700s inWaterloo and ask them what they
thought about Waterloo.
They talked about Waterloo fromthe standpoint of the victor.
You know World War II, for allthe things that happened in that
.
Where do you find a story thatsays what the Nazis were really
(53:13):
fighting for?
Or you know the things thatthey endured People, you know
where is that?
So it's the same throughout.
Who's victorious in the historythat's being written?
Who wins in that?
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Exactly.
And again it's like we thinkyears from now the narrative and
what will be the story.
You know, if we don't fightright now to preserve history
and again, not for the sake ofbeating somebody over the head
with it it's just hey, let'sacknowledge the truth so we can
heal and move on.
Let's talk about the equitythat is needed to bring the make
(53:49):
the scales balance.
Let's talk about these things.
That's, those are the hardparts to.
Really a person can admit ohyeah, I've seen the room, but
it's like the other things thatcome with it.
That's where the hard partcomes in and that's where you
know we got to get to, but youknow we're gonna.
We're gonna get there next week.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Next week we'll get there right, all right, all
right.
Well, yeah, that'd be nice ifit did.
So.
Hey, bro, love talking, alwaysa good time.
Thanks to anyone listening toour, our rantings about the
world as it should be, could bewould be, yeah, but hope you
enjoyed the discussion.
(54:28):
If you didn't write, go writesome comments at www.4sockcom,
and you know, please make themquestions.
No, you know the attacking ofone another.
No one's out here to attack.
We're trying to understand,we're trying to to answer
questions that you might have,or if you think that there's
something that we're way offbased on, then present the
(54:49):
information.
You know I'm I'm willing toadmit I'm wrong.
I have to do it just aboutevery time I have an argument
with my wife.
So you know just, I'm used toit.
It's okay, it's not a bad thingto be wrong.
That's how you become right, soright.
And Antoine, you behaveyourself Okay.
Don't always don't be clutchingyourself with your hands so
(55:11):
your neck and shoulders begin,okay.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
I know right, yeah, Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
All right, thanks bro , see ya.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Bye.
Let's have it Well good afternoon, good evening,
good morning, whenever you'relistening to this podcast, right
Cause we just don't know, do weAntoine?
Do we know when they'relistening?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
No, we don't, and we just hope you all listening.
That's all that matters, justlisten.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, we hope you're listening from Germany or from,
you know, saskatchewan orwherever you're listening from,
cause you know, lord knows weare saying important things,
aren't we?
Are we?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh yeah, oh yes, yes, yes, life changing things,
things that could change thetrajectory of communities and
futures Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Wouldn't that be wonderful.
So we're just, we're puttingthat all out there because we're
not here to just kind of, youknow, stroke ourselves.
Here we're, antoine and I.
We have no egos that we need toboost, except to see the
kingdom of God and the kingdomof truth reign over a time where
(01:05):
there are a few people that arewilling to stand up, even
people that are supposedly, youknow, men and women of God, that
are willing to stand up and saythis this isn't right.
There's something this does notfit with the gospel.
I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Absolutely right.
The Bible says the world iswaiting for the manifestation of
the sons of God, those thatkept their Lord's commandments
and are applying them.
Love God with all your heart,mind, soul and strength, and
loving people as you loveyourself.
We have fulfilled everything,but we're not loving.
That's what.
That's what.
That's what the root thingwe're not loving.
We haven't been loving as acountry for ever.
(01:42):
So that's what?
All right.
Well, I mean right.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I mean you see that manifested in all kinds of ways.
You know if you're going toyou're going to love people.
One of the first things you youtry to do, I mean, I think, is
you, you know, like, think ofyour family members when they
get into, you know, badsituations.
You know loving them isn'tstarting out by saying you know,
I told you that was thestupidest thing you ever could
have done.
Loving on people in thosesituations is it looks more like
(02:09):
you know, gosh, that soundsawful.
You know what?
What?
Tell me more about whathappened.
You know what?
What were you doing?
And you may, you may, bethinking that's the stupidest
thing anyone could ever do, butyou don't understand the whole
situation.
And until you ask the questionsand until you, you show empathy
for the fact that, hey, theymade a dumb decision.
(02:29):
I don't remember me ever beingabsolved or you know, immune to
making dumb decisions myself.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Right, I made a few at old.
So absolutely yeah, still dosome time.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Just a few, right, oh jeez.
So, anyways, why?
What are we doing here, antoine?
What?
What is the purpose of thisbroadcast?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
This is a frame of reference coming together.
You know where you got an olderwhite guy, a semi-old black guy
.
Hey, come on.
Yeah, that's not there.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, Older white guy , a semi-older.
Why don't you just say a youngstud of a black guy in an old?
Yeah, we should, we should dosomething like that.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I, I, I, I, I, I.
Like I said I crossed 50, uh,my wife is like, okay, you're
hanging up the cake, you know.
It's like, you know, my body istelling me the same.
It's like, uh, hanging up thegame, the thing you did at 30.
Nope, and the thing you did at24.
Nope, what, what's that?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Have you ever seen the Incredibles?
We're, we're, uh, oh God, yougotta see that movie.
There's a point where, uh, MrFreeze is like woman, where's my
super cape?
Okay, so she's like you, don't,don't you dare take that toe
with me.
It's just a whole area, so, butuh, anywho, yeah, we do.
I have to hang up.
(03:44):
Hang up my cape a long time ago.
If I had, if I had kept my cape, maybe I would have flown all
the way to that garbage can.
That struck my head a couple ofweeks back, Don't know for sure
.
Anyways, yes, frame ofreference, You're coming
together today.
Uh, I asked if we could talkabout a subject which is gets a
(04:07):
lot of people's rankles up.
I think, um, and I'm all forgetting rankles up, because the
only way you deal with things isto get rankles up.
It's like, uh, alcoholics,anonymous, you don't.
You don't get better from beingan alcoholic until you can
recognize that you're analcoholic, and that's why they
say hey, hello, my name's Rauland I'm an alcoholic Cause you
(04:29):
have to recognize it, andeveryone that I've known that
went through a.
As said, it wasn't comfortable.
You know coming to grips withthat, agreeing, you know
recognizing it, One of thehardest things they did.
So the same as true.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
First thing is confessing it.
Right, you have to confess itand acknowledge it and confess
it and be like, yeah, that's howyou start to go through it.
Yeah, absolutely, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And you end up being uh.
In this case, we're talkingabout another one of those
things that gets rankles up, andthat's the narrative of racism,
the narrative of, uh, you knowhow black history and how our,
our country's, racial historyhas played out, and how easy it
(05:13):
is to change that narrative tomake it, uh, sound better than
it was and to uh somehow justifywhat was, and that that's sort
of like saying, um, I was tryingto think of a good example
without being really awful, butit'd be sort of like, um, you
know yeah good.
(05:35):
I mean, I keep thinking ofthings like you know, rape and
how you know you try to turn arape into a good thing by you
know saying, well, I mean, hewas a really handsome man, oh,
great, fantastic, yeah, that'swonderful, he's a really
handsome man and that shouldmake me feel better about the
rape, right?
Um, or, you know, he taught meafter he raped me.
He taught me how to basketweaves and I didn't know how to
(05:57):
basket we've and that's moreappropriate for the, what we're
talking about today, I think.
Ultimately, or at least theevent that prompted me thinking
about the um and I am talkingabout and I called this up so I
could read it exactly but, um, afew weeks back, uh, governor
DeSantis out of Florida made, uh, a comment regarding, uh, a new
(06:17):
rule or a set of of curriculumrules that were put into place
in Florida and they have to dowith how the curriculum is, uh
is taught, the key points intheir uh.
You know talking about blackhistory and black the, the
things that have happened toAfrican-Americans over history,
and let me just take a secondhere and call this thing.
So here's the story.
(06:39):
Uh, this is taken from Reuters.
So hopefully, uh.
I guess I don't know enough toknow whether or not people think
Reuters is overly, uh, liberalor not, but Reuters has an
international irreputation of ofreporting the news.
Yeah, so in Reuters on July 20ththey reported that Florida's
(06:59):
board of education has approvednew guidelines for teachers on
how black American historyshould be taught, despite sharp
criticism from some educatorsand civil rights group.
Among the new guidelines are eduh are for educators, our
benchmark clarification,including one for the middle
school students that statesinstruction includes how skills
(07:21):
slaves developed, skills which,in some instances, could, could
be applied for their personalbenefit.
Let's think about that.
Instruction includes how slavesdevelop skills which, in some
instances, could be applied fortheir personal benefit.
(07:41):
I want to address somethingright away on that, and this is
the insidious way that a lot ofthis stuff works is that there
is and people may hate me forthis, but there is some grain of
truth in that, and from myperspective, that's how lies
really gain their power.
They encompass just enoughtruth.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
You broke up, so I didn't hear you, brother.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
There's a there's an issue with these kinds of
statements is that they theycontain just a little grain,
just a little smudging of truth,and that gives them their power
.
These kinds of statements don'thave any power if they're just
flat out lies.
I mean, people use flat outlies all the time, but what
they'll do and this is even moreinsidious is by using things
(08:29):
like black people developedskills yes, they there were
skills and in some instancescould be applied to their
personal benefit.
Now, the in the example I sawlater on is that the people that
were slaves, that learned howto be blacksmiths, could then
translate those skills as ablacksmith into other things
(08:51):
once they were not Remember thattime, blacks couldn't trade on
the open and in the, in theBelemage, blacks couldn't even
trade on the open market, sothey had to barter for things.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yes, that skill did come about.
However, how did it come about?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, and when you think about it, as a skill was
taught to benefit the master inhis household.
Exactly, you know, and thenRight, so you see what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
There's that grain of truth there that, yeah, that
thing did happen, but you got tothink about the context in
which it happened.
You know they were slaves.
They didn't have a choice ifthey didn't want to be, a choice
to learn.
If I don't want to be ablacksmith, it's going to hurt
my hands, it's horrible, it'ssuper hot.
Anyone never do anyblacksmithing work.
It's just some of the worstkind of work you can do.
(09:32):
That's why machines do it.
Now, you know.
So it's just.
I really hate how that sort ofthing is done over and over and
over again, where they take justsome little thing that you know
.
Yeah, there's just but.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But and this is, this is a, this is a kind of a
tactic.
You're starting to see this allover the place.
It's like a playbook.
You know they got.
You know it's like, you knowyou're trying to spend the thing
, you know, of course, like,again, because the whole purpose
of everything is to minimizeblack history.
It's the net, the whole controlof the narrative and what he's
(10:08):
going to do.
Because, again, someone like us,being 50 plus, right, we have a
hit read certain history books.
We know history, we got bookson our shelves like, say, but
now, say, the younger generation, who doesn't read or even care
about history as much, untilthey actually woke up, so to
speak.
You know the narrative caneasily be implanted in them.
(10:31):
And you know, and of course,it's just one of those things
where you know it's a oh, it's aoh uh African proverb, right,
it says until the lions havetheir own historian, the history
of the hunt will always glorifythe hunter.
And, of course, and that'sbasically a narrative, or is, is
, is a metaphor for how groupswith power and privilege control
(10:54):
historical narratives, andthat's what they're trying to do
.
Now, right, and of course, butthere, and the thing is, the
attack on this thing is soblatant now.
It's not even we're trying tohide it.
I mean, you might they might aswell just say that we're, we
want to kill black history, wedon't like black, brown color,
(11:15):
we don't like people of colorperiod.
They just need to just say,because that's the action, says
that, right, right.
That it's also like when weended the course, again trying
to control the narrative uh,cause, again like this now it's
like white people older, older,but let's say, people that are
on white, people that are on theright, they're fighting with
(11:36):
younger kids, the wokegeneration, right.
And so it's like we gotconflict on every side now.
And of course, you get.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
It just irks me to how, the minute they say in that
section about that, someinstruction includes how slaves
developed skills.
Just break that down a littlebit.
When you, the minute you, starttalking about that sort of
thing, what you're trying to dois, as you said, minimize
(12:06):
Slave-wise.
You're trying to minimalize.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Change the narrative of it Right.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Right, I mean for anyone anywhere to think that
anything about being a slave waslike.
You know the way they paintthis.
You would think there wereblack slaves out in the you know
, doing blacksmith work, andthey're going.
Oh, thank God, my master taughtme how to be a blacksmith
Because now, when I'm not aslave, if I'm ever not a slave,
(12:31):
I'll be able to be a blacksmith.
I mean, you know, it's just,it's so weird.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
This is a narrative.
Yes, because the narrative hasbeen.
It's flipped into like thefifties and sixties, like if you
go to YouTube and you look upsome of these older white guys,
even back in the fifties andsixties.
It's one particular video thatburnt my toes.
It was a guy from North SouthCarolina, light blue suit,
talking about all the slavesliked it, they want it to be
(13:01):
here.
They're like no, they did not,they had no choice in the course
.
You know, recently, like well,in the Ken, people don't really
know the history because, like,when you talk about why hit
slaves, some ran, they were likeyou know what I'm getting out
of here, but why some didn't run.
It was called buck breaking.
You know, you tie a slave up tofour horses and rip his body
(13:21):
apart in front of his family andthen you tell the black woman
to teach the black boy that ifyou do this, this is what's
going to happen to you.
And so that's why, people, youkind of beat and beat people
into submission and just slay,kill them, beat them into
submission.
And now the narrative wants tobe changed because, again, like
(13:41):
even with this narrative, like,oh, they gained some skill, we.
They gained skills.
Through racism, through slavery, they gained skills, but the
same skills did not allow themto get homes when the homestead
that came about.
All because they wereagricultural workers, they were
indentured servants and theywere domestic servants.
(14:01):
So they just they weredisqualified for no homestead,
like getting free land.
So, and again, it's like so forthem to say that they gave us a
skill or gave black people askill at that time.
I'm trying not to cuss.
I'm trying not to cuss.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, you're doing better than I would be doing,
that for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
And, and, and, and, and, but.
It's like again.
But we, you know again DaveChappelle said this a few years
ago when he came back on thescene we live in the age of spin
, deflection, projection.
What about isms?
You know it, just, it's a game,but the thing is it's, the
whole thing was perpetuated fromone side of the fence.
They created this thing, thisculture war.
(14:46):
It's, it's made, it's alwaysbeen here, it's just faced that.
But they 2016,.
It was made okay to say andshow how you really feel about
people.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And people continue to do it inthe most, you know, angry,
hateful ways possible, and I,you know, I'm faulting the
church as much as anything, ifnot more, because I agree the
church of Christ sits back andlets it happen, you know, and?
And instead of standing up andsaying this is wrong, not that.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Half of these militias are formed in these
Southern white churches.
They've actually gottenmilitias in their own little
military teams and that's thethat's the sad part about this
thing.
This thing is happening inchurches.
But you know, let's go back tothe church.
You know we talk about.
You know how Southern Baptistseparated from the Northern
Baptist because Southern Baptistown slaves and they want to
keep them and it's like no,that's, that doesn't go, that's
(15:42):
goes against the knowledge ofGod.
But anyway, right, I'm with youwhen you say that there's a
fault on every corner.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and you know, understanding how, taking taking
things and misconstruing in,you know, twisting them, that
that's an incredibly insidiousthing that you have to.
I mean, I seriously believethat that kind of statement,
that kind of of twisting oftruth around a well-crafted lie,
(16:13):
an incredibly well-crafted lie,is satanic.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean, there there's no, you have to thank you,
brother, for saying that.
You know the prince of thepower of the air, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, I mean we're.
And when, when you hear anyonesay things like well, some
slaves were treated so nicely bytheir, their masters, they
didn't mind at all.
They, they were, they were ingood position, I'm like wait a
minute, wait a minute, wait aminute, wait a minute, wait a
minute.
They were slaves.
What does that mean?
In in our country, it meantchattel slavery.
(16:46):
It meant that if you were aslave, you were a thing you
weren't.
You weren't a person, you werethree-fifths of a person.
You know so how do you, how?
What does three-fifths of aperson look like in real reality
?
That means that I don't have totreat you like a complete
person because you're onlythree-fifths of a person.
I mean, those fundamentalprinciples are are what we're
(17:09):
talking about when we try tominimize slavery.
And you know, am I.
I'm not banging people's heads.
I get so tired of this argumenttoo.
You know why do we have?
Everything is racist nowadays,you can't see anything without
being racist.
It's like okay, take a stepback.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Actually, that's that's.
I think that's a, that is a copout, and also I think it's kind
of false because you know,again this thing comes from one
side and it's just like whenpeople say they can't say
anything anymore.
Who, who they, who theyspeaking of.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Well, there's the one case of a guy I work with Right
now go ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I'm sorry.
No, I was just saying.
There's a guy that I work withwho was just telling me and I
forget I should look up theactual event but there was a
situation where a guy wasdelivering something I think
like a UPS driver or somethingdelivering something, and he
said something to the guydelivering it in.
The guy that I forget who itwas the guy that was being
(18:06):
delivered to, or deliveringhaving it delivered to, made a
comment that the other persondidn't hear because they
actually had headphones at thetime, but they construed it to
be a racist comment.
And if I, it must have been thedriver that made the comment,
because that guy then lost hisjob as a result of having made a
racial slur that he says hedidn't make.
(18:27):
And how would he know if hemade it or not?
Because the guy had headphoneson.
And so they'll use exampleslike that, which, again, I can't
attest to if that even reallyhappened, because a lot of that
stuff has become like urbanmyths that get put out there to
make people you know feel like,oh, this is unjust too.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Look at what happens to us.
It's racism.
Yeah, it's like you're usingthat analogy the other day, like
the assault victim is actuallybecome the assault victim
becomes the Problem, so to speak.
Right, well, you shouldn't havebeen wearing that provocative
clothing right, right and, butthe thing is no what this whole
thing is about.
When the With this, uh, thegentleman, uh this I'm trying to
(19:12):
be nice the Santas that comment, you know that is not a word.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Well, maybe call it mister.
Okay, maybe we have mister.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Okay, we have to look people right.
Yeah, the Bible does say placetrue pray for the authorities
that are above you.
All authority comes from him.
I'm like all right, lord, evenhim, and it's like yep, even him
.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I don't like it, but I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
But what he's doing is like.
What they doing, though, islike that they, they right, they
want to control the narrative,because the narrative, whoever
controls the narrative, controlsthe outcome.
And, of course, like withputting this stuff, they say,
okay, like they taking it, likethey replacing the beatings and
whoopings and all thehard-working things in the
history books About slavery, andthen replacing it with all they
(20:02):
learned skills, they Well givenhow they do this and that and
the other, and basically, again,that minimizing history.
But also, this is what you'redoing.
You're putting it in textbooksto create a collective memory.
Right, you take away one thingand replace it with another,
then put it in a book, and thenthat's what we're teaching.
That is good, that is the newhistory, because, like you say,
(20:23):
if we us right now, you and I, Idon't know 40, 50 years Lord
willing, I was still here, but Ithink we might be gone and then
, of course, that's what they'llbe reading 30, 40, 50 years
from now is oh, slaves weretreated good, they were in this
space, and that's that narrative, that it has to be crushed
(20:43):
right now.
That's why, you know, we it had.
There has to be such a defenseright now, because, again,
that's what this is all about.
You know, it's a basicallytaking racism or taking race out
of the, basically taking theblack struggle, black history,
everything and making itirrelevant, because the argument
is always going to be forequity and equality and
(21:05):
Reparations, and so you want tominimize, as you take away,
history.
And because, I look at, thiswhole thing is running out the
clock, you know you're kicking acan down the field.
There's things that are old,that I believe, there's things
that should be, there should besome kind of reparation to
people, but they're gonna kickthat can down the field and, at
(21:25):
the same time, change thehistory behind it.
So when actually theconversation is had, it's like
oh that, that that's not needed,that's not necessary.
So I think the no, we have to.
Really, I'm glad that the here,that the teachers and the
professors and the educators arestanding against this, and I
just think more people, just noneducators, just us as people,
(21:48):
need to stand against this aswell, because again, it's not
just happening in Florida oneget educated.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You know, that's the that.
One of the things that worriesme about Florida is there's
unprecedented numbers ofprofessionals leaving the state.
Doctors educators, professors,are just bailing on the state
because they can't.
They can't tolerate what's goingon and I appreciate the
sentiment of that and, at thesame point, I would encourage
(22:14):
people to Bolster themselves upand stand and fight, because if
we run from the fight, the bullyis gonna keep getting stronger
and the the reality is that,yeah, some of these people
they're getting emboldened tothe point where I mean we're
seeing things like the, ameteorologist in, you know, iowa
(22:34):
, that you know, quit his jobbecause he was being threatened
His family was being threatenedwith bodily harm because he
would he started talking aboutclimate change.
So, if that can happen, aboutsomething like climate change,
which you know if, whether ifyou believe it or not just talk
about is it good to be doingwhat we're doing to our Earth?
That it's the only place we allhave to live?
(22:55):
Are there sensible things we'redoing and nonsensible things?
And you know whether or not youbelieve that, you know we're
making a difference in or not,it still makes sense to just
treat the planet and treat ourenvironment, treat our resources
with respect, just believe that, why not?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
why not Use what the earth gives us for energy?
The water that a currentunderneath gives us can give us
energy.
The sun, I can give us energywithout.
So do it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It's so silly so if they can do that, if they can
drive weathermen out of theiryou know houses and jobs in Iowa
, iowa, okay, not, you know, notsome.
You know we're not talkingAlabama or Mississippi, you know
we're talking Iowa.
So if they can do that for thatin Iowa, am I saying that
(23:44):
enough?
Am I saying that I, oh, wow, soI, oh wins.
Okay, how, how much more arethey gonna do something with
something that really has someteeth to it, like slavery, I
mean there and in a?
Do we believe, belabor this toomuch?
I don't think you can belaborsomething that is this big of a
(24:06):
stain on our history and I don'tthink it's gonna get me better,
unless we admit that.
You know there's a problem here.
Look at, you know, criticalrace theory.
People are, you know, gettingjust losing their Marbles at
school board meetings becauseyou know we can't teach this
critical race theory.
It's Marxist and it's gonnaruin our kids and it's just
(24:28):
demonic.
From if I, you know they're notteaching critical race theory
in schools.
They're not, no dude.
Critical race theory is barelyunderstood by PhD students at
university.
It's a discussion topic thatasks people to look at factors
in our society, in our systems,that may be encouraging or
(24:49):
allowing Racist ideologies tocontinue.
Now, if there's none there,great.
If we've done the research andwe can show great not there,
well, that would be one thing.
But if we investigate and wefind that there is stuff there,
again, let's just look at thesethings to what keeps getting us
in trouble as we go.
Oh, I don't feel good.
(25:10):
I didn't.
I'm I'm.
I'm a nice white person, I haveblack friends, I'm a, I'm a
good person.
Okay, all right.
Okay, let's your good person,are you?
It's not enough to be Notracist anymore, you have to be
anti racist.
You know, an anti racist meansyou come up against any shape
(25:30):
form of it and you say you knowwhat that's kind of a racist
comment.
You know what that's kind of aracist bug?
No, it's not.
Well, let's take it apart alittle bit and see, I know maybe
you didn't mean it as a racistthing and I'll give you that
benefit of the doubt.
But the fact that you'regetting all bent out of shape
because I'm pointing out thatit's racist is not a good sign.
(25:51):
That's kind of like thealcoholic that gets told you,
don't you think you had enoughenough?
You know Tequila right now?
Oh, no, I know tequila Me.
Oh, I know how I handle mytequila.
Well, you know.
Probably not a good time totalk to the tequila drinker when
(26:11):
they're like that.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But you know, and it's almost like when the
teaching of a DEI diversity,equity and inclusion really
start to take form and take noLike, companies started to do it
in the federal government,acknowledged that they needed
that training and all these kindof things.
And then, of course, both sidesthat said, hey, we need this,
we desire this.
Great.
(26:32):
Then the groups that said, youknow, this is not necessarily,
we don't need it, I don't likeit.
What they do.
They take the context of it.
It is almost like when you starttalking about white privilege,
you start talking aboutunconscious and conscious biases
and things like that.
It's almost like these thingsare done deliberately.
Yeah, so you can spark up the.
That was racist.
No, it's not.
(26:52):
And it's like.
You know they, it's like amocking.
You know what I mean Becauseit's it's like a mocking.
You know we, what we're talkingabout here is like it almost it
goes back to the Civil War.
Like we're talking aboutchanging the narrative, right,
because the history books, evenback then it was going to
reframe and reshape Americans'thought-owned slavery.
(27:16):
They try to make the horrors ofslavery into this positive
institution.
You know it's like, but that'snot the case.
And again, we're just seeing itbeing perpetuated.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Now I'm just looking up something here.
Yeah, yeah, laws prohibiting.
There's a law that I don'tthink people realize just how
far back this thing goes andit's seeing.
If that comes up here, Ibelieve it's back in laws in.
(27:49):
It was on the eastern coastlike Maryland or Connecticut and
the I've got to look that up.
It goes way back that there,where it started in laws is
several black people initiallycame to the country I don't know
how many hundreds it was, butthey came because it was a land
(28:09):
of new potential and they becamevery successful at things like
tobacco farming.
So there were some instances ofthat happening.
Well, there was so much alreadysystemic feelings of we don't
trust these people, they're darkskin, they're not like us that
they passed a law that said ifany black person was on the
streets after nine o'clock theycould be stopped and arrested by
(28:34):
pretty much any white person.
So there was already a systemput in place to say we don't
like having these black peopleon the streets at night.
We feel threatened by them, sowe want the ability to arrest
them and tell them you have tostay off the streets To have it
be that far back that this iswell before anything like
(28:56):
slavery, indentured servitudewas there, but I don't know if
we probably were alreadyimporting people to have them
work on plantations.
But you can see how deeply thatwhole thing goes and I don't
want to.
I won't try to self-flatulateeither.
I won't whip myself for being awhite person.
(29:18):
That's not the point, it's not.
Don't feel bad about being awhite person.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Feel bad about the fact that black people still are
not getting the same shot atthings and the thing is, all you
want, I guess, at the end ofthe day, is for someone to
acknowledge that, tell the truthabout it, Because you think
about even like you ever seenthe movie Rosewood.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
About the slaughter in Florida.
It's probably I can't rememberthe timeframe, but it's either I
almost want to say it's alittle bit before Greenwood in
Oklahoma.
But at the end of the movie, ofcourse, reparations were made
for that community, all thepeople that were that got killed
by the white mob.
But then the United Statesgovernment writes a letter in
(30:08):
2002 or 2012 or whatever it was,and they acknowledge it, but
they just apologize for it,basically.
But they wouldn't acknowledgeit because again in that letter,
if they acknowledge it, theyknow that reparations were due
to the rest of the country.
But if you go, I'm almost gotto go back and watch that movie
just to get that letter from thegovernment at the end.
(30:29):
But again, it's this narrativethat it goes way back even again
, goes so far back.
Have you heard of that lostcalls narrative?
They were trying to do way backwhen.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Not ringing a bell.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, just to pull this thing up and of course I
was reading before we came on itwas like talking about how
white supremacists usedtextbooks as a vessel for
neo-Confederate collectivememory.
During this period,neo-confederates and Reactionary
and Revisionary branch ofAmerican white nationalism
campaign for a narrative calledlost calls, a myth which was a
(31:08):
psychological response to thetrauma of defeat.
The lost calls attempted topreserve the honor of the South
by casting the Confederatedefeat in the best possible
light.
Two of the main components ofthe myth of the lost calls are
that the South's concession fromthe Union had little or nothing
to do with the institution ofslavery and, number two,
(31:31):
enslaved people benefited fromslavery due to benevolent slave
owners.
That was a narrative that theytried to create.
Even back in they campaigned it.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Read that second part again about benevolence.
I want to get that in my brainbetter.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
The two myths were the South's concession from the
Union had little or nothing todo with the institution of
slavery, and two enslaved peoplebenefited from slavery due to
benevolent slave owners.
Doesn't that ring a bell towhat that Joker is saying right
now?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, benefited yeah benefited from slavery.
Right, right, I benefited, Iboy.
You know, I'll give people thefact that when you think, when
you really stop to think aboutthose things, they're awful,
they're just awful.
There's no way to feel goodabout that.
And I part of the problem wehave white people have I know I
(32:36):
even have it still is thatbecause we think of racism as
being binary, we think of itbeing if you're a racist, you're
a bad person, and if you're, ifyou can say you're not racist,
then you're a good person, andmost good people don't want to
think about them being badpeople, themselves being bad
people.
Well, I don't know about youguys, but I'm 63 and I have,
(32:57):
well long ago, have accepted thefact that I try to be a good
person.
But there are times when I amnot a good person.
There are times when I lose mytemper, there are times when I'm
super selfish, there are timeswhen I, you know, do things that
I wish I hadn't done, and I,you know, some of them I do over
and over again.
So, and yet I still try to clingon to the fact that I'm a good
(33:19):
person for the most part, I hope.
But I also know that any goodthat's in me come doesn't come
from me.
So that acceptance of the factthat it maybe I am.
Maybe I am still racist, and Iknow that I am because I can
think of a couple of months, ayear or so ago.
I was walking down the streetwalking my dog and a young black
man was walking down the streetacross from me and he had a
(33:41):
hoodie on and I I had a reactionto that of being, oh, I hope
he's.
Oh my, there was like a fearthing that started, as we all
are seeing a young black manwith a hoodie on and like, okay,
what is wrong with me?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
What is wrong.
And again it's like these things, these behaviors, these images,
like you know, of course, likethis one thing, like I'm in the
northeast part in the course ofWisconsin now, but we travel
even to like places like Bloomer, wisconsin, and I'm talking to
people that have never met ablack person in their life, but
(34:21):
they have a preconceived notionor thought based on what they've
seen on TV or what they'veheard from another person.
And again, it's like this islike the human psyche, right,
where a person will believe abad thing they hear before they
believe a good thing they see.
And then it's like when wecause you know how, like they
(34:42):
say, oh, a bad word spreadfaster than the good word, right
?
So it's like we'll take thatbad thing that we hear and we
hold on to it and but yet, likesay you're show, you're being
shown a different behavior, adifferent attitude, a different
character, characteristic orwhatever, but yet you want to
hold on to that bad word.
So what you want to do is takethat bad word and you want to
(35:02):
try to reframe what you'reseeing and what happens to
people.
They become offended becausewhat they are here and what
they're seeing don't match andthey're trying to make what they
heard match what they see,versus trying to make what they
see.
Try to make what they see matchwhat they heard.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I'm saying it back but yeah, no, I mean, I think
it's like when you have anargument, when I have an
argument with my wife, and shepoints out something about my
behavior that's inconsistentwith what I'm saying, and then I
have to go oh yeah, why is thatinconsistent?
But I usually don't go that way.
What I do is try to prove thatthere is a reason why what I say
(35:40):
I want and the inconsistentbehavior are really the same
thing.
They really are, and I, youknow, the thing that I said is
really true, and that behaviorthing.
Well, I just had really thoughtabout, you know, and it's just,
it's so common that for us tonot want to admit that, well, I,
my words should match myactions.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
And but no, I guess, like, what I was trying to
explain to a brother is like andmaybe I did a poor job of doing
that but all I'm trying to sayis like people will believe a
bad thing, believe a bad wordabout something, before they see
the good in that same verything.
Like, say, we're talking like ablack guy, you know, in Bloomer
, wisconsin, you know I'mtalking to these white folks in.
(36:20):
It's like they're like lookingshocked because I can complete a
sentence.
No, I got my haircut, I'mshaved, you know.
It's like I got a belt on, youknow, and it's like my wife and
I were holding hands and it'slike it, what they saw, just
crushed their very Perception orimage of what they've seen and
(36:41):
heard.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah and that's wherepeople like again.
It's like some people becomeoffended and they can't deal
with that, so they'll just somepeople just tune out, they just
like I don't care either way.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, or they try to find a way to make it fit their
narrative.
You know, there it is, sothey're just the biggest thing
right.
Well, you know they're just.
There's something wrong there.
They're just trying to looklike they're, you know, regular
folks.
They're not.
I mean, there's all kinds ofways that we can work our brains
around.
You know, something we'vealready decided is true
(37:16):
Absolutely.
The hardest thing to provewrong is a person that believes
they're right.
You know so.
It's just.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Started way back, you know with the dehumanization of
black folks, you know withslavery, and then, of course,
with that movie when it depicteda slaves raping white women and
just and that career.
Exactly.
And then, of course, because,again, at the end of the day,
you know, this White supremacyis what this is what we're
(37:44):
seeing at work right now whitesupremacy and it's it's got
grassroots into lower Casepeople or like, say, a different
class of people is rooted inthe church and then, of course,
you got these people ingovernment again.
And that's the sad part because, like, say, a minority business
(38:05):
owner going to a bank orwhatever for a loan, and then
you come across someone with thewrong mentality.
It just sets you back.
But white supremacy is alive,is real and as well, and it's
meant to distort the ideology,you know, of how people think,
and it's actually and it'sradicalizing some of these kids,
and I don't, it's just, it's asad, you know, because again,
(38:28):
it's like it just I just cannotgather or fathom how you can
look at another human being andand and treat them like dirt and
look that like them and look atthem like they're left a stand.
No, I think I told us.
No, I think I told this storybefore With you row, but there
was another.
It was just like treatingpeople.
(38:49):
It's like okay, treating like.
It's like the.
When I went a couple theymistreated the server so bad
that you know we would never goout with that couple again.
But also I had to go back inand I just had to talk to that
server and say that's not howthings really are.
You know what I mean.
So, but with this thing, whenI'm talking about right, you
know it's like you treating aperson Based on what they do for
(39:12):
a living, not who they are as aperson.
Yeah, because that's what thisthing is you looking at me based
on the color of my skin, notwho I am as an individual right.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Well, it takes time to get to know the individual.
It's really easy.
Yes, we, we, we tend to want totake the simplest path in most
things.
I get you mentioned the DWGriffith is the name of the
filmmaker that made birth of anation, and you know that.
Yeah, there's yet another pointwhere you can look at that and
there, you know, earlier 1900s,19, I had an O14, something like
(39:46):
that and that film, you know itdoes it as a.
It basically glorifies the KuKlux Klan.
They're they're seen, as youknow, the great warriors, the
great defenders of white societyand you know, civilization.
And Then there's a scene whereone of the things that they do
to Show how they're keeping oursociety safe, as there's a scene
(40:07):
of a black man Trying to rape awhite woman and, in order to
evade, avoid getting raped, shethrows herself off a cliff.
The guy that is supposed to bea black man is a white man in
blackface.
So, yes, you know they're.
They're taking a situationwhere, you know, back then,
blackface was considered anacceptable thing to do For
entertainment, because youcouldn't let black people
(40:28):
perform, but there were timeswhen you needed a black
Performance or you know, assomebody, that that would look
like black, and so they doblackface.
So here they are in a moviedoing the same thing.
The most reprehensible thing is,as if that wasn't bad enough,
president Woodrow Wilson at thattime saw the film and decided
that it should be shown at theWhite House, and it was given a
(40:51):
private White House screening.
And after seeing that and youshould look up the exact quote
but Wilson said that it was agreat American film and then it
should be seen throughout theland by everyone.
So here you have a president.
Woodrow Wilson is consideredone of the more intellectual
Presidents we ever had.
He's considered one a greatstatesperson in so many ways,
(41:14):
and yet somebody that was thateducated could be led to Make a
decision after seeing a movielike that that that's okay and
that that's actually a greatfilm.
And in fact, dw Griffith wasrenowned as one of the great
filmmakers of the early filmindustry.
He developed some techniquesand things that are still used
today and he was a pioneer.
(41:35):
All that good stuff, right, butit shows you again how how this
thing works.
Here's an educated man whobecomes president of the United
States and yet he can think andthat this is a great movie.
Well, okay, you can give himall kinds of you know, get out
of jail cards.
It wasn't that far after theCivil War, yada, yada, yada.
(41:56):
I mean there's you know allkinds of excuses for that, but
there really isn't any excuse.
It really isn't.
And we're still using the samedang excuses today to keep from
thinking about how bad racism is.
And if, if we were still doingthings in our society if we are
still doing things in oursociety Make alcoholism okay, if
(42:17):
we're still doing things tomake Perversion of children okay
, if we we want to do thosethings, we would stomp those out
.
We have enough collectiveconscience to realize that no,
you can't teach kids.
It's okay to become analcoholic, you cannot.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
So why can't you turn off some of these cartoons
today?
Oh yeah, they're not cartoons,no more.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
No, well, and why would you teach, allow something
like that to be taught?
And it's, how is it differentto allow Racism be taught as
something where you know theylearned?
They learned good skills whenthey were slaves and some of
them were treated really welland they would never run away
because they enjoyed it so much.
It's like who's gonna run awaywhen they hear about their you
(43:01):
know husbands being drawn andquartered?
Who's gonna run away?
You know I I'm not gonna.
You know the people yet stilldid.
I mean, area Dubman was aTestimony to how many people did
run away and she thankfully didsomething to try to help them
get safely away.
But even then I mean it's justoh yeah, I mean I feel like I'm,
(43:22):
I don't know, alone well in thewilderness or something,
because I'm sure there lots, ifthere are white people listening
right now they're thinkingyou're a traitor, you're not a
real white person, you're one ofthose you know feminates or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And the thing is it's like I look at you, brother,
and say that you a man at thegods on heart, man, you can
confess your faults and you canactually get it right and go and
not make the same mistake twice.
You know, look at King David.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Oh, my wife would say no, I make the same mistake
twice I.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Haven't seen your brother, I've seen nothing but
good in you, and.
But I want to read somethinghere else, man, I saw this thing
on racism.
It says racism is in fact, notjust a byproduct of white
supremacist ideology but asubsequent culmination of
(44:13):
ignorance and fear and a psychoemotional detachment from the
broader community of humanity.
And an holistic understandingof our tangible Commonalities in
life therefore coerce to adaptto a non-conscious bias and
false reality.
Does that sound familiar?
Because I mean, we've watched aalternate reality just pop up
(44:37):
right before our eyes, right,and then that's the second, the
second part of this.
It says this person who'swriting his name is a cuckoo I
can't pronounce the last name,but a cu?
Cu.
But the second part, that is, inmy opinion, races are scared
and filled with fear, loss andemptiness that are often
associated with the skewedUnderstanding and purpose of
(44:58):
human relationships.
I also believe races asindividuals with experiences of
potholes in life.
Who has had an experience ofrejection and or dejection, in
other words, a racist is anindividual who, in my opinion,
is most likely challenged byidentity crisis, low self-esteem
(45:18):
and mental weakness, a lack ofbelonging to a beloved community
, thus forced to live theillusion of a manufactured
consent based on false pretextsand notion.
Any thoughts?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Well, it seems to me there's a lot of things, a lot
of ills in our world, in ourcountry and everywhere that are
fueled by insecurities and Iagree, and I don't know of any
real lasting security that comesfrom anywhere.
But recognizing that we have aloving God and that's the thing.
(45:58):
You know, I remember my mom onher deathbed.
You know, like a day or twobefore she died, she asked me
she didn't understand one thingshe had never figured out
through her life and my mom hadbeen, you know, as good a
Catholic girl as a Catholic girlcan be and, you know, tried to.
You know she did the rosary,she did nobina.
I mean she was on top of makingher faith, putting some, you
(46:23):
know, feet to it, some legs toit.
But she said she'd neverunderstood all of her life how
God could let his son suffer theway that he did and to let him
die like he did.
And I said, mom, you're missingthe whole point.
I said God loved us so muchthat he gave his only begotten
(46:43):
son so that we could be saved.
That's how much.
That it's not about.
He loved his son.
Of course he loved his son andit broke his heart in every
which way we can possiblyimagine, by letting his son be
sacrificed.
But he also knew his son wasgoing to a better place at the
end of the world.
But he loved him enough, heloved us enough to let that
happen.
So the same is true with, Ithink, any of these folks that
(47:07):
are so insecure about thingsthat they need to, you know,
lash out the way that they doand they need to justify their
biases.
So you know, vehemently and sodynamically, that it comes down
to just not loving yourselfenough, not allowing yourself to
be loved to be able to say,yeah, I want to do something
(47:29):
about that.
That does happen.
I do see that I try not toparticipate in it in myself.
I really do.
But I also know that I'mprobably missing 90% of what
happens around me and notstanding up and saying, hey, you
can't do that.
He's a person you don't get tonot put their change in their
(47:49):
hand.
When you're putting everybodyelse's change in their hand, is
that right?
Are you afraid of touching ablack person?
What's the deal?
I don't get it.
You don't have to be combativeto be, you know, illuminating
the situation.
Maybe they're not even aware, Idon't know, you know, maybe
they are aware.
But you know, call it out, justlike you'd call out bad
behavior.
If a you know young man wasleering at your daughter and you
(48:11):
know, you could see, becauseyou're a guy, you could see he's
mentally undressing her andimagine how you know fun it
would be to hit that?
Would you step out with any dadout there, not step up and say,
hey, hey, hey, you should lookat my daughter that way, don't
you dare?
Look at my daughter.
Well, I didn't do it Anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seenthat.
(48:31):
Look, I've had that.
Look, I know what that lookslike, buddy.
So you know, can we at least setup and say, okay, maybe I don't
believe that it's all over theplace, but maybe I need to start
looking for it too.
Maybe I need to startchallenging my bias that says it
doesn't exist, or that, my biasthat says, well, some black
(48:53):
people really liked what theywere.
Huh, okay, no, really, show mea black person, please introduce
me to the black person.
It says oh, yeah, yeah, mygreat, great, great, great
grandma was a slave.
She loved it.
She was really sad when slaveryended.
Show me that, okay, because Ican guarantee you you're not
(49:13):
going to find it.
It's not okay.
No one, no one, no one, nowhite person anywhere would want
to be a slave.
We would not choose it.
We would not, because it meansyour property and we.
No one wants to be someoneelse's property and be treated
like a chair.
I'm done with that chair.
(49:33):
That chair's worn out, it's gotsprings popping out of it.
Get rid of it.
Oh well, you know, if it's ablack person.
Yeah, I mean if they can't workanymore, if I've beaten them
into the point where they can'twork anymore.
I can get rid of them.
I can shoot them, I can dowhatever I want, because they're
my property.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
No, Well, yeah, man, that thing goes all the way back
to reconstruction, right, yeah,and before, you know when we're
talking about, and before,absolutely, you know, of course,
with the reconstruction, no,even like, again, just like the
white suddeners who refused toadopt to the vision of a more
racially just nation, right,they couldn't do that.
So what they did to oppose it,you know, of course, they used
(50:13):
physical violence, you know, Ilied, ku Klux Klan and whatever
other groups, just racialviolence.
And they also used theirpolitical power to play the lone
game to undo any kind of racialprogress being made.
And we see that today, again,they've been playing this game
forever.
And the thing is, it's justamazing how we have not passed a
(50:37):
voting law, even though theConstitution gives us a right to
vote.
Yet why isn't there not afederal protection that gives us
all the right to vote free andfairly?
You know, and that's againthese things are, some of these
things are so blatant becausethe things that are being fought
against tells you who they are.
They are Right, we're countingdown the number of people.
(50:59):
How can you lose?
I mean, what do you?
Of course they're going to losetheir power if more people of
color vote against what they'redoing because of the behaviors
they've exhibited, because againit goes back.
You know, they plan a political, political lone game to undo
any kind of racial progress.
And this is us.
We're praying, we're praying.
(51:21):
This is why we pray, man, amen,this is why we pray.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Things can't stay the way they are.
I mean you want to make anAmerica great again.
Let's make America great.
Let's just forget about theagain part of it, because that
implies that somewhere we werebetter than we are now, and now
is all we got.
So let's just make Americagreat.
We can't go back to the fifties.
People say, oh, like it was backin the fifties and the sixties.
(51:48):
Oh, you mean like when theywere still hanging black people,
when they were still making itreally hard for women to work
out of the home, when they weremaking sure that, you know,
everyone everywhere, you know,was just, you know, treated like
chattel.
I mean, I don't know.
(52:09):
I mean you can look at anyperiod of time and say what was
so great about that.
I mean you have fond memoriesof being a kid in the fifties
and you think it was sowonderful.
You know well, if you were anadult back in the fifties, you
probably have a much differentview of what things were like
back, you know, being a kid andhaving those rosewood glasses
that see, you know how things wewant to see.
(52:30):
I don't know.
I'm struggling here becausethis is just a tough topic.
It's another one we have tocome back to if we're going to
say, let's come back to it.
You know it's just a.
Just just think about for asecond how history is written by
the victors.
Any war that's ever taught tous, it's written by the victors.
(52:51):
They didn't go back, you know,to Napoleon's army after they
lost the war in the 1700s inWaterloo and ask them what they
thought about Waterloo.
They talked about Waterloo fromthe standpoint of the victor.
You know World War II, for allthe things that happened in that
.
Where do you find a story thatsays what the Nazis were really
(53:13):
fighting for?
Or you know the things thatthey endured People, you know
where is that?
So it's the same throughout.
Who's victorious in the historythat's being written?
Who wins in that?
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Exactly.
And again it's like we thinkyears from now the narrative and
what will be the story.
You know, if we don't fightright now to preserve history
and again, not for the sake ofbeating somebody over the head
with it it's just hey, let'sacknowledge the truth so we can
heal and move on.
Let's talk about the equitythat is needed to bring the make
(53:49):
the scales balance.
Let's talk about these things.
That's, those are the hardparts to.
Really a person can admit ohyeah, I've seen the room, but
it's like the other things thatcome with it.
That's where the hard partcomes in and that's where you
know we got to get to, but youknow we're gonna.
We're gonna get there next week.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Next week we'll get there right, all right, all
right.
Well, yeah, that'd be nice ifit did.
So.
Hey, bro, love talking, alwaysa good time.
Thanks to anyone listening toour, our rantings about the
world as it should be, could bewould be, yeah, but hope you
enjoyed the discussion.
(54:28):
If you didn't write, go writesome comments at www.4sockcom,
and you know, please make themquestions.
No, you know the attacking ofone another.
No one's out here to attack.
We're trying to understand,we're trying to to answer
questions that you might have,or if you think that there's
something that we're way offbased on, then present the
(54:49):
information.
You know I'm I'm willing toadmit I'm wrong.
I have to do it just aboutevery time I have an argument
with my wife.
So you know just, I'm used toit.
It's okay, it's not a bad thingto be wrong.
That's how you become right, soright.
And Antoine, you behaveyourself Okay.
Don't always don't be clutchingyourself with your hands so
(55:11):
your neck and shoulders begin,okay.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
I know right, yeah, Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
All right, thanks bro , see ya.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Bye.
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