October 28, 2025 • 18 mins
Nate Cross & Ben Kowalski answer your freight brokering questions and discuss:
🧭 Difference between shippers and receivers in various contexts?
💸 How to fight excessive shipper fees fairly?
🏢 Can carrier and broker share the same address?
🚨 How do brokers recover after cargo fraud or loss?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
Welcome back.
It's another edition of thefinal mile where we answer your
questions.
Today they're coming from avariety of places.
We've got our Facebook group,we've got YouTube comments.
Um, there might be a Reddit onein here.
But uh, if you're brand new,check out all the other content,
Freight360.net, including theFreight Broker Basics course to
(00:39):
help yourself establish a newbrokerage or help train up your
new team members, and pleasecheck out the sponsors to help
support the channel in thedescription box or uh down below
if you're on YouTube.
So all right, Ben, our firstquestion How do the terms
shippers and receiver differacross various contexts, such as
(01:01):
manufacturers, distributioncenters, warehouses, job sites,
retail stores, and raw materialsuppliers?
And where can we assist each ofthem in the supply chain
process?
So um, all right.
So I'll start with shipperversus receiver first, and then
I'll break down the differenttypes of locations that were
listed and identify as a brokerwhere you can kind of come in.
(01:23):
So the shipper or sorry, yourcustomer as a broker can be a
shipper or it can be a receiveror it can be just a third party
that has you know an unrelatedshipper and receiver.
Um the customer is I isultimately gonna be the one that
is responsible for making sureproduct is getting shipped from
(01:44):
one place to another.
Now, I'll simplify it.
Oftentimes our customer is theshipper, right?
A lot of times it's theirproduct and they're shipping out
the door to their customer, akathe receiver.
And I'm it's anoversimplification, but that's
generally how it works.
And um in that instance, um,you're gonna have various job
(02:06):
titles, like it could be atraffic manager, logistics
coordinator, etc., that isresponsible for um getting loads
booked and sent out.
And they'll work with differenttrucking companies and with
brokers, and that's who you'llwant to target.
Now, a receiver could be acustomer too.
So if you ever get the objectionof, oh, my my uh freight is
(02:29):
customer routed, meaning thatthat shipper doesn't actually
control the trucks that thatcome pick up the freight, the uh
receiver does.
Um in that case, and that's it'sless common, but it does happen.
Um, you can target a receiverwho's who's purchasing and
bringing goods into theirfacility, and they're booking
the truck that's going to pickit up and bring it to them.
(02:51):
Yeah, anything else on those twopoints?
Uh usually I would say like 90%of the time it's the shipper, is
who we're dealing with as acustomer.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
I I will say it like I I'm gonna rephrase what you
said from a different point ofview.
Say I am a broker's customer.
That means I am arrangingtransportation, right?
What does that mean?
I am making sure I'm scheduling,negotiating, or paying to get
that thing picked up anddelivered.
So I could be a company thatsells things to Nate, and I'm
(03:20):
arranging the trucks that gofrom my facility to Nate's.
I could be a company that buysthings from Nate, but Nate says,
I'll just sell you the product,you send your own truck in to
pick it up.
That's why I'm arranging it.
I'm the receiver, Nate's theshipper.
The third example, right, is anycompany that buys from something
is the beneficial cargo owner,can theoretically arrange to
(03:44):
have it picked up and deliveredit to somewhere else.
So, like, let's say I'm like athird-party produce broker and I
buy a truckload of tomatoestoday from a farm in Texas, and
I just pay for the tomatoes, andI'm shipping it to a grocery
store in Washington.
I'm arranging thetransportation.
I am not the shipper or thereceiver.
(04:06):
I just bought it from one placeand paid and arranged to have it
shipped to some other place,which is my customer.
So what you're really asking inyour prospecting calls is like,
hey, we want to understand who'sresponsible for arranging the
transportation, whether it'sinbound stuff you buy or stuff
you sell.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Yep.
Now I'm gonna break down thedifferent examples of um
locations that they asked aswell.
So manufacturer, that's gonna besomeone who creates something
and ships it outbound, like ourprimary example.
A distribution center istypically where um a lot of
things um come into thedistribution center and then get
(04:44):
distributed out of thedistribution center.
So picture like um um a retail,a retailer, for example, uses
distribution center.
So let's I'll I'm gonna totallymake this up.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
It's probably Amazon is Amazon is also theoretically
just an entire distributioncenter.
They don't make anything.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
I'll use a I'll use a basic one.
Let's say Best Buy, right?
Best Buy, their stores sell abunch of stuff, right?
Um so to what would oftentimeshappen is let's say they've got
computers from one manufacturer,they've got TVs from another,
they've got um Blu-ray.
Uh people don't even useBlu-rays anymore.
Uh microphones from another oneand appliances for another one,
(05:23):
and they those all get shippedinto a distribution center to
centralize Best Buy's stock.
And then those distributioncenters send out, you know, a
truckload of a bunch ofdifferent stuff to one store, a
truckload of a bunch ofdifferent stuff to another
store, et cetera.
So the distribution center sitsin the middle of the supply
chain.
Okay.
Warehouse, very similar.
(05:43):
So we'll just kind of keep thosethe same.
Um, a job site, that is picturelike where something is being
constructed, right?
They ultimately become the enduser of the product.
So if a um, let's say there's anew residential building going
up, and the the job site iswhere all the lumber's going in,
all of the HVAC equipment'sgonna go in, it's where all of
(06:04):
the um construction equipmentthat's being rented or leased or
used, whatever, is gonna gothere, get shipped there, and
then shipped back out of there.
So that's a job site.
Um, retail stores, you thinklike um I gave the example of
the the Costco stolen load,right?
Like of apparel.
Um retail stores are ultimatelyan end, I'll call them like an
(06:27):
end seller, right?
Like the finished product goesto the retail store.
I think we all know what aretail store is.
Um they're they're not gonna beyour customer, they're gonna be
a receiver in in the vastmajority of situations.
Um, and then raw materialsuppliers.
That's like we had a greatepisode about lumber with with
Blue Book uh a couple years backwhere we talked about um
literally the they are theorigin of of whatever the
(06:50):
product is.
So like it could be a uh aquarry where they're doing
silver mine, like rock.
It could be Yeah, exactly.
Right?
It could be the raw lumber afterit gets, you know, uh the trees
are cut down and they'reshipping, you know.
You see like those, like I thinkof Final Destination, the movie
where there's like all the logsor whatever on the on the flat
(07:13):
pad that fall off and hit thecars.
So those are um differentshippers and receivers that
you're going to be dealing with,as well as different types of
customers.
So great question.
I don't think we've ever brokendown the different like types of
locations before, and that's agood question.
Next question Has anybody hadsuccess getting a shipper to
remove or reduce excessive fees?
(07:35):
We've got a short 60-mile Texasto Texas run that hits us with a
$350 rescheduling fee if thepickup is late.
And the lane itself only paysaround$500.
Curious if anyone's been able topush back on something like that
without tanking therelationship.
Um we actually recently dealtwith something like this with a
(07:57):
government customer that hadwhat I would consider like
egregious fees for like you knowbasic clerical errors.
Um so the issue was twofold.
Like one, the broker was makingpreventable clerical errors, but
number two, the uh penaltydidn't really like the sentence
(08:19):
didn't seem to fit the crime, ifthat makes sense.
Like they were gonna charge like$700 for like a administrative,
like the wrong number was typedinto a system, or you know, late
pickup, for example, you know,you know, just things like that.
And the way we worked it out islike just have a conversation.
(08:40):
Like, what is the what is thereal intent here?
Is the intent to penalize it, oris the is is the intent for you
guys to save money, is it or isthe intent for you guys to to
encourage a certain process tohappen?
Because if we understand thatlike you just you it's really a
deterrent and you're not lookingto find people, um, we were able
to get them to work with us torefine the process so that we
(09:03):
could prevent the errors in thefuture, and then they in turn
waived um those fees.
I'm curious, have you ever had asituation remotely similar to
that where there's just crazyfees?
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, that one's pretty extreme for a$500
load.
Um, but it they're all solved inthe same way, which is exactly
what you said.
Having a conversation, trying tounderstand what the company
needs and why the fee is there,and trying to get them to
understand why you may need toreschedule them and when you've
rescheduled them, right?
(09:34):
And then trying to findsomewhere in the middle that
works for both, right?
Whether it's a reduced fee or alittle bit of flexibility, or
maybe you give them a heads upwhen you know you'll need to
reschedule as far in advance tomaybe make it easier on them,
right?
At the end of the day, like theconversation will lead you to
some path in between these twoextremes of the customer needing
(09:56):
things picked up on time.
So maybe they're not likeliterally staging these loads,
unstaging them, and restagingthem again.
And maybe the carrier that is areally good fit for this lane
gets held up at the last placethey deliver to once or twice a
week, and they need a littleflexibility.
There's probably some way towork into the middle.
You just want to have aconversation and explain, like,
hey, this lane works.
(10:16):
We like working with you.
This has really become an issuefor us.
How can we find some way to makethis work for both of us?
Because obviously we can't takea$350 hit on a$500 load.
And obviously, you guys needthings rescheduled less or more
notice or more time.
Here's where we're running intoissues in a carrier, meaning,
(10:38):
like, this is when we're awarewe will be late and how late is
that enough time to notify youguys because this is what every
shipper does.
And then a lot of them will dothis, which is ridiculous from
my point of view.
Drive rates down so low thatcarriers are basically having to
bounce from their last deliveryto their next pickup in such a
short time window that likeanything that happens on the
(10:59):
road creates an issue for areschedule.
And then the shipper goes, Well,this is weather you're like,
okay, well, then you got to paysome time for dead miles for me
to get there early so that I'mnot rushing from my last pickup
to my next one to be able tomake this lane work for you,
right?
And again, this is where theconversations are gonna be super
helpful.
For sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Next one can a trucking company and a brokerage
operate from the same address?
I'm setting up two separateentities, a carrier and a
brokerage, but they'd share thesame physical address.
Is that gonna raise red flags orcause issues when I'm trying to
book loads with other brokers onmy carrier side?
It can.
Um, my brokerage and ourtrucking company both on paper
share the same address.
(11:41):
Um, and we actually have rulesin highway set to like flag a
carrier that has a brokerage atthe same address, just because
we not to say that we won't dobusiness with them.
We just want to verify and justreiterate hey, we this is going
on one of your trucks, correct?
Um, versus you're gonna put itthrough your brokerage.
(12:03):
So um it'll it can definitelycause a hurdle, but it's not
anything you can't work past.
So, you know, if you're ifyou're if a k if a brokerage is
like, uh, hey, you guys have abrokerage, we're you know, a
little weary about working withyou, you could tell them, like,
hey, you're like, I, you know,I'll do ELD tracking, I'll give
you pictures at pickup showingyou the truck and everything.
(12:24):
Um, you just it's again like thelast question.
It's about having a conversationand building that trust and just
maybe taking an extra step orhaving one more discussion to
verify um how you're gonna bedoing business.
I'm curious because you'veyou've been on both sides.
Um, what would your take be onthis?
Would you would you break theaddresses up or would you just,
(12:45):
you know, clarify in aconversation how you're gonna do
business?
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
Honestly, I think it's probably less work to
separate the addresses than tohave that many conversations
because the way all the systemsare set up, they're meant to
catch fraud.
They're not meant to preventanyone from doing business with
a carrier that has a broker thatis associated with it.
The problem is none of theautomated systems do that well.
(13:09):
So basically, every brokeragehas at least some warning that
says there's a broker at thisaddress where there's a carrier,
and most brokers are justhonestly like too lazy to do the
work to have the phone call.
They'll just go to the nextoption for the carrier side,
right?
So it's honestly like I justthink the effort is in just
being able to split theaddresses up quick legitimately.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
In some cases, like you can't.
Um, and I get that.
So, like, I there's a customer,an old customer of mine.
I've probably told stories aboutthe potato farm before, but like
they were they're a customer, aship uh carrier, and a broker.
Like they literally were allthree.
So like they grew potatoes.
I'll I'll kind of likegeneralize what they did, but
(13:52):
like so they ship potatoes, sothey they would ideally load
their own trucks, but if theydidn't have their own truck,
they would sometimes brokerage,you know, hire an external truck
either through their throughtheir brokerage or directly.
Um, and then their brokerage,since they started getting into
brokerage, would have othercustomers that they would work
with and load their own trucksand sometimes third-party
trucks.
I mean, it was kind of, but theywere all in the same location.
(14:15):
So um that's more of anexception to the rule.
But yeah, you're probably right.
It probably is better just tosplit them up because like our
in my company's case, like ourflag yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
I know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
Yeah, like they're not we're like on paper, they're
in the same location, like inTennessee, but like our trucks
are based out of Florida, that'swhere our terminal is.
And our brokerage office isbased in Tennessee.
Um, and then our brokers are allover the country.
And when we have we have we dohave some of our brokerage
employees down in the truckingterminal, so it's like it gets
messy, but yeah, on paper, weare we are kind of like shooting
(14:48):
ourselves in the foot.
It's funny, like our our owntrucking company has to be
overridden in our brokerage forus to load them.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
So and also like this is a big issue with large
brokers working with Landstar.
Like some large brokers justblack flag every Landstar
because they genuinely can'tverify are they booking a
Landstar truck or are theygiving the load to another
broker in a co-brokerageagreement?
And then you don't havevisibility into whether those
things occur.
And there's a lot of greatagents at Landstar.
(15:15):
There are also some that aren't.
It's a very big agency.
So, like, again, I just know fora fact that some brokers and
brokerages are just like, youguys can't book Landstar trucks,
which again, like, I have goodfriends and colleagues that are
Landstar agents that likeabsolutely people should be
using.
But I've also been in scenarioswhere I thought a load was being
run on a Landstar truck and Isaw my load on the load board 10
(15:38):
minutes later when you're like,okay, well, clearly that wasn't
true.
So, like, there's more work, andwhen there's more work, it it
just takes longer to get morebusiness.
And I'm like, if you could dothings to make it easier for
yourself, do that in the frontend.
It's not that you can't solveit, it's just it's probably
easier to solve the addressthing up front than to have to
resolve this every time you'rebooking a truck with another
(15:58):
brokerage.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Yep, exactly.
All right, last question youadded, and I'll let you take
this one.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
My biggest concern about starting a brokerage is
the fraud thing.
I understand checking your P'sand Q's and crossing your T's
will help, but uh what if itdoes?
And when it does happen, youlose cargo.
How do you bounce back?
Because I assume everyone'sexperienced this from small to
big brokerages.
What's the worst thing that canhappen or the minimal?
(16:26):
Well, the worst thing is thishappens with a very large
customer that owes you a lot ofmoney and they stiff you for the
cargo value and unrelatedinvoices.
Meaning, like that company andthat customer owes you a hundred
grand for freight you ran lastmonth, a hundred thousand dollar
load gets stolen today, and theyjust refuse to pay you all the
money they owe you from before.
(16:47):
Now you're into the legalscenario.
Now you've got to go down therabbit hole.
And we just did an excellentepisode with attorneys that you
could literally reach out to ifyou're in a situation like this.
Um, the minimal thing thathappens is it's the first load
you run with the customer.
And if the carrier steals it,like that customer's out the
money and the brokerage reallyisn't liable.
(17:09):
Unless there is specificagreement in place between the
brokerage and the shipper thatoutlines additional liability.
If there's just no agreement inplace between the shipper and
the brokerage, honestly, theshipper's just out that money.
And if the carrier doesn't showup and doesn't repay it or the
claim doesn't get paid by thecarrier, the broker just isn't
really responsible, right?
(17:30):
Which is also why it's harder toget shippers to onboard you as a
broker than as a motor carrier.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Yep.
Yeah.
It's a tough one, man.
I um I talk to people so withhaving an agent model at Pierce,
we get a lot of people thatreach out to us that want to,
you know, become an agent orwhatnot.
And I'll oftentimes talk topeople that like they got out of
the business, you know, X amountof years ago and they're looking
(17:55):
to get back in.
And I'm like, it's a differentgame now than what it was, you
know, five, six years ago.
Um, but yeah, that's a uh that'sa go and where'd that question
come from anyway?
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
I was on YouTube.
I came in like last night orthis morning I saw it.
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Good stuff, good questions.
Keep setting them our way, andwe'll continue to answer them.
Final thoughts, Ben.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Whether you believe you can or believe you can't,
you're right.
And until next time, go bills.
Welcome back.
It's another edition of thefinal mile where we answer your
questions.
Today they're coming from avariety of places.
We've got our Facebook group,we've got YouTube comments.
Um, there might be a Reddit onein here.
But uh, if you're brand new,check out all the other content,
Freight360.net, including theFreight Broker Basics course to
(00:39):
help yourself establish a newbrokerage or help train up your
new team members, and pleasecheck out the sponsors to help
support the channel in thedescription box or uh down below
if you're on YouTube.
So all right, Ben, our firstquestion How do the terms
shippers and receiver differacross various contexts, such as
(01:01):
manufacturers, distributioncenters, warehouses, job sites,
retail stores, and raw materialsuppliers?
And where can we assist each ofthem in the supply chain
process?
So um, all right.
So I'll start with shipperversus receiver first, and then
I'll break down the differenttypes of locations that were
listed and identify as a brokerwhere you can kind of come in.
(01:23):
So the shipper or sorry, yourcustomer as a broker can be a
shipper or it can be a receiveror it can be just a third party
that has you know an unrelatedshipper and receiver.
Um the customer is I isultimately gonna be the one that
is responsible for making sureproduct is getting shipped from
(01:44):
one place to another.
Now, I'll simplify it.
Oftentimes our customer is theshipper, right?
A lot of times it's theirproduct and they're shipping out
the door to their customer, akathe receiver.
And I'm it's anoversimplification, but that's
generally how it works.
And um in that instance, um,you're gonna have various job
(02:06):
titles, like it could be atraffic manager, logistics
coordinator, etc., that isresponsible for um getting loads
booked and sent out.
And they'll work with differenttrucking companies and with
brokers, and that's who you'llwant to target.
Now, a receiver could be acustomer too.
So if you ever get the objectionof, oh, my my uh freight is
(02:29):
customer routed, meaning thatthat shipper doesn't actually
control the trucks that thatcome pick up the freight, the uh
receiver does.
Um in that case, and that's it'sless common, but it does happen.
Um, you can target a receiverwho's who's purchasing and
bringing goods into theirfacility, and they're booking
the truck that's going to pickit up and bring it to them.
(02:51):
Yeah, anything else on those twopoints?
Uh usually I would say like 90%of the time it's the shipper, is
who we're dealing with as acustomer.
SPEAKER_00 (03:00):
I I will say it like I I'm gonna rephrase what you
said from a different point ofview.
Say I am a broker's customer.
That means I am arrangingtransportation, right?
What does that mean?
I am making sure I'm scheduling,negotiating, or paying to get
that thing picked up anddelivered.
So I could be a company thatsells things to Nate, and I'm
(03:20):
arranging the trucks that gofrom my facility to Nate's.
I could be a company that buysthings from Nate, but Nate says,
I'll just sell you the product,you send your own truck in to
pick it up.
That's why I'm arranging it.
I'm the receiver, Nate's theshipper.
The third example, right, is anycompany that buys from something
is the beneficial cargo owner,can theoretically arrange to
(03:44):
have it picked up and deliveredit to somewhere else.
So, like, let's say I'm like athird-party produce broker and I
buy a truckload of tomatoestoday from a farm in Texas, and
I just pay for the tomatoes, andI'm shipping it to a grocery
store in Washington.
I'm arranging thetransportation.
I am not the shipper or thereceiver.
(04:06):
I just bought it from one placeand paid and arranged to have it
shipped to some other place,which is my customer.
So what you're really asking inyour prospecting calls is like,
hey, we want to understand who'sresponsible for arranging the
transportation, whether it'sinbound stuff you buy or stuff
you sell.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Yep.
Now I'm gonna break down thedifferent examples of um
locations that they asked aswell.
So manufacturer, that's gonna besomeone who creates something
and ships it outbound, like ourprimary example.
A distribution center istypically where um a lot of
things um come into thedistribution center and then get
(04:44):
distributed out of thedistribution center.
So picture like um um a retail,a retailer, for example, uses
distribution center.
So let's I'll I'm gonna totallymake this up.
SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
It's probably Amazon is Amazon is also theoretically
just an entire distributioncenter.
They don't make anything.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
I'll use a I'll use a basic one.
Let's say Best Buy, right?
Best Buy, their stores sell abunch of stuff, right?
Um so to what would oftentimeshappen is let's say they've got
computers from one manufacturer,they've got TVs from another,
they've got um Blu-ray.
Uh people don't even useBlu-rays anymore.
Uh microphones from another oneand appliances for another one,
(05:23):
and they those all get shippedinto a distribution center to
centralize Best Buy's stock.
And then those distributioncenters send out, you know, a
truckload of a bunch ofdifferent stuff to one store, a
truckload of a bunch ofdifferent stuff to another
store, et cetera.
So the distribution center sitsin the middle of the supply
chain.
Okay.
Warehouse, very similar.
(05:43):
So we'll just kind of keep thosethe same.
Um, a job site, that is picturelike where something is being
constructed, right?
They ultimately become the enduser of the product.
So if a um, let's say there's anew residential building going
up, and the the job site iswhere all the lumber's going in,
all of the HVAC equipment'sgonna go in, it's where all of
(06:04):
the um construction equipmentthat's being rented or leased or
used, whatever, is gonna gothere, get shipped there, and
then shipped back out of there.
So that's a job site.
Um, retail stores, you thinklike um I gave the example of
the the Costco stolen load,right?
Like of apparel.
Um retail stores are ultimatelyan end, I'll call them like an
(06:27):
end seller, right?
Like the finished product goesto the retail store.
I think we all know what aretail store is.
Um they're they're not gonna beyour customer, they're gonna be
a receiver in in the vastmajority of situations.
Um, and then raw materialsuppliers.
That's like we had a greatepisode about lumber with with
Blue Book uh a couple years backwhere we talked about um
literally the they are theorigin of of whatever the
(06:50):
product is.
So like it could be a uh aquarry where they're doing
silver mine, like rock.
It could be Yeah, exactly.
Right?
It could be the raw lumber afterit gets, you know, uh the trees
are cut down and they'reshipping, you know.
You see like those, like I thinkof Final Destination, the movie
where there's like all the logsor whatever on the on the flat
(07:13):
pad that fall off and hit thecars.
So those are um differentshippers and receivers that
you're going to be dealing with,as well as different types of
customers.
So great question.
I don't think we've ever brokendown the different like types of
locations before, and that's agood question.
Next question Has anybody hadsuccess getting a shipper to
remove or reduce excessive fees?
(07:35):
We've got a short 60-mile Texasto Texas run that hits us with a
$350 rescheduling fee if thepickup is late.
And the lane itself only paysaround$500.
Curious if anyone's been able topush back on something like that
without tanking therelationship.
Um we actually recently dealtwith something like this with a
(07:57):
government customer that hadwhat I would consider like
egregious fees for like you knowbasic clerical errors.
Um so the issue was twofold.
Like one, the broker was makingpreventable clerical errors, but
number two, the uh penaltydidn't really like the sentence
(08:19):
didn't seem to fit the crime, ifthat makes sense.
Like they were gonna charge like$700 for like a administrative,
like the wrong number was typedinto a system, or you know, late
pickup, for example, you know,you know, just things like that.
And the way we worked it out islike just have a conversation.
(08:40):
Like, what is the what is thereal intent here?
Is the intent to penalize it, oris the is is the intent for you
guys to save money, is it or isthe intent for you guys to to
encourage a certain process tohappen?
Because if we understand thatlike you just you it's really a
deterrent and you're not lookingto find people, um, we were able
to get them to work with us torefine the process so that we
(09:03):
could prevent the errors in thefuture, and then they in turn
waived um those fees.
I'm curious, have you ever had asituation remotely similar to
that where there's just crazyfees?
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, that one's pretty extreme for a$500
load.
Um, but it they're all solved inthe same way, which is exactly
what you said.
Having a conversation, trying tounderstand what the company
needs and why the fee is there,and trying to get them to
understand why you may need toreschedule them and when you've
rescheduled them, right?
(09:34):
And then trying to findsomewhere in the middle that
works for both, right?
Whether it's a reduced fee or alittle bit of flexibility, or
maybe you give them a heads upwhen you know you'll need to
reschedule as far in advance tomaybe make it easier on them,
right?
At the end of the day, like theconversation will lead you to
some path in between these twoextremes of the customer needing
(09:56):
things picked up on time.
So maybe they're not likeliterally staging these loads,
unstaging them, and restagingthem again.
And maybe the carrier that is areally good fit for this lane
gets held up at the last placethey deliver to once or twice a
week, and they need a littleflexibility.
There's probably some way towork into the middle.
You just want to have aconversation and explain, like,
hey, this lane works.
(10:16):
We like working with you.
This has really become an issuefor us.
How can we find some way to makethis work for both of us?
Because obviously we can't takea$350 hit on a$500 load.
And obviously, you guys needthings rescheduled less or more
notice or more time.
Here's where we're running intoissues in a carrier, meaning,
(10:38):
like, this is when we're awarewe will be late and how late is
that enough time to notify youguys because this is what every
shipper does.
And then a lot of them will dothis, which is ridiculous from
my point of view.
Drive rates down so low thatcarriers are basically having to
bounce from their last deliveryto their next pickup in such a
short time window that likeanything that happens on the
(10:59):
road creates an issue for areschedule.
And then the shipper goes, Well,this is weather you're like,
okay, well, then you got to paysome time for dead miles for me
to get there early so that I'mnot rushing from my last pickup
to my next one to be able tomake this lane work for you,
right?
And again, this is where theconversations are gonna be super
helpful.
For sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
Next one can a trucking company and a brokerage
operate from the same address?
I'm setting up two separateentities, a carrier and a
brokerage, but they'd share thesame physical address.
Is that gonna raise red flags orcause issues when I'm trying to
book loads with other brokers onmy carrier side?
It can.
Um, my brokerage and ourtrucking company both on paper
share the same address.
(11:41):
Um, and we actually have rulesin highway set to like flag a
carrier that has a brokerage atthe same address, just because
we not to say that we won't dobusiness with them.
We just want to verify and justreiterate hey, we this is going
on one of your trucks, correct?
Um, versus you're gonna put itthrough your brokerage.
(12:03):
So um it'll it can definitelycause a hurdle, but it's not
anything you can't work past.
So, you know, if you're ifyou're if a k if a brokerage is
like, uh, hey, you guys have abrokerage, we're you know, a
little weary about working withyou, you could tell them, like,
hey, you're like, I, you know,I'll do ELD tracking, I'll give
you pictures at pickup showingyou the truck and everything.
(12:24):
Um, you just it's again like thelast question.
It's about having a conversationand building that trust and just
maybe taking an extra step orhaving one more discussion to
verify um how you're gonna bedoing business.
I'm curious because you'veyou've been on both sides.
Um, what would your take be onthis?
Would you would you break theaddresses up or would you just,
(12:45):
you know, clarify in aconversation how you're gonna do
business?
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
Honestly, I think it's probably less work to
separate the addresses than tohave that many conversations
because the way all the systemsare set up, they're meant to
catch fraud.
They're not meant to preventanyone from doing business with
a carrier that has a broker thatis associated with it.
The problem is none of theautomated systems do that well.
(13:09):
So basically, every brokeragehas at least some warning that
says there's a broker at thisaddress where there's a carrier,
and most brokers are justhonestly like too lazy to do the
work to have the phone call.
They'll just go to the nextoption for the carrier side,
right?
So it's honestly like I justthink the effort is in just
being able to split theaddresses up quick legitimately.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
In some cases, like you can't.
Um, and I get that.
So, like, I there's a customer,an old customer of mine.
I've probably told stories aboutthe potato farm before, but like
they were they're a customer, aship uh carrier, and a broker.
Like they literally were allthree.
So like they grew potatoes.
I'll I'll kind of likegeneralize what they did, but
(13:52):
like so they ship potatoes, sothey they would ideally load
their own trucks, but if theydidn't have their own truck,
they would sometimes brokerage,you know, hire an external truck
either through their throughtheir brokerage or directly.
Um, and then their brokerage,since they started getting into
brokerage, would have othercustomers that they would work
with and load their own trucksand sometimes third-party
trucks.
I mean, it was kind of, but theywere all in the same location.
(14:15):
So um that's more of anexception to the rule.
But yeah, you're probably right.
It probably is better just tosplit them up because like our
in my company's case, like ourflag yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
I know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
Yeah, like they're not we're like on paper, they're
in the same location, like inTennessee, but like our trucks
are based out of Florida, that'swhere our terminal is.
And our brokerage office isbased in Tennessee.
Um, and then our brokers are allover the country.
And when we have we have we dohave some of our brokerage
employees down in the truckingterminal, so it's like it gets
messy, but yeah, on paper, weare we are kind of like shooting
(14:48):
ourselves in the foot.
It's funny, like our our owntrucking company has to be
overridden in our brokerage forus to load them.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
So and also like this is a big issue with large
brokers working with Landstar.
Like some large brokers justblack flag every Landstar
because they genuinely can'tverify are they booking a
Landstar truck or are theygiving the load to another
broker in a co-brokerageagreement?
And then you don't havevisibility into whether those
things occur.
And there's a lot of greatagents at Landstar.
(15:15):
There are also some that aren't.
It's a very big agency.
So, like, again, I just know fora fact that some brokers and
brokerages are just like, youguys can't book Landstar trucks,
which again, like, I have goodfriends and colleagues that are
Landstar agents that likeabsolutely people should be
using.
But I've also been in scenarioswhere I thought a load was being
run on a Landstar truck and Isaw my load on the load board 10
(15:38):
minutes later when you're like,okay, well, clearly that wasn't
true.
So, like, there's more work, andwhen there's more work, it it
just takes longer to get morebusiness.
And I'm like, if you could dothings to make it easier for
yourself, do that in the frontend.
It's not that you can't solveit, it's just it's probably
easier to solve the addressthing up front than to have to
resolve this every time you'rebooking a truck with another
(15:58):
brokerage.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Yep, exactly.
All right, last question youadded, and I'll let you take
this one.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
My biggest concern about starting a brokerage is
the fraud thing.
I understand checking your P'sand Q's and crossing your T's
will help, but uh what if itdoes?
And when it does happen, youlose cargo.
How do you bounce back?
Because I assume everyone'sexperienced this from small to
big brokerages.
What's the worst thing that canhappen or the minimal?
(16:26):
Well, the worst thing is thishappens with a very large
customer that owes you a lot ofmoney and they stiff you for the
cargo value and unrelatedinvoices.
Meaning, like that company andthat customer owes you a hundred
grand for freight you ran lastmonth, a hundred thousand dollar
load gets stolen today, and theyjust refuse to pay you all the
money they owe you from before.
(16:47):
Now you're into the legalscenario.
Now you've got to go down therabbit hole.
And we just did an excellentepisode with attorneys that you
could literally reach out to ifyou're in a situation like this.
Um, the minimal thing thathappens is it's the first load
you run with the customer.
And if the carrier steals it,like that customer's out the
money and the brokerage reallyisn't liable.
(17:09):
Unless there is specificagreement in place between the
brokerage and the shipper thatoutlines additional liability.
If there's just no agreement inplace between the shipper and
the brokerage, honestly, theshipper's just out that money.
And if the carrier doesn't showup and doesn't repay it or the
claim doesn't get paid by thecarrier, the broker just isn't
really responsible, right?
(17:30):
Which is also why it's harder toget shippers to onboard you as a
broker than as a motor carrier.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Yep.
Yeah.
It's a tough one, man.
I um I talk to people so withhaving an agent model at Pierce,
we get a lot of people thatreach out to us that want to,
you know, become an agent orwhatnot.
And I'll oftentimes talk topeople that like they got out of
the business, you know, X amountof years ago and they're looking
(17:55):
to get back in.
And I'm like, it's a differentgame now than what it was, you
know, five, six years ago.
Um, but yeah, that's a uh that'sa go and where'd that question
come from anyway?
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
I was on YouTube.
I came in like last night orthis morning I saw it.
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Good stuff, good questions.
Keep setting them our way, andwe'll continue to answer them.
Final thoughts, Ben.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
Whether you believe you can or believe you can't,
you're right.
And until next time, go bills.
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