Fighting for Change: Inside the TIA Policy Forum | Episode 313

The trucking industry faces a major safety crisis—1 in 5 trucks shouldn’t be on the road, 97% of carriers lack safety ratings, and nearly a quarter of drivers stopped during inspections don’t even have a CDL. At the TIA Policy Forum in D.C., industry leaders pushed for long-delayed safety standards and legislation like the Household Goods Shipping Consumer Protection Act. With freight volumes at historic lows, brokers need layered protection—education, procedures, and technology—to guard against fraud and theft. This isn’t just about business; it’s about public safety and accountability, and real change will only happen if people demand it from Congress.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome back Another episode of the
Freight 360 podcast we justwrapped up.
Well, I wasn't on it last week,but a four-part series.
That was a pretty good one, Ben.
All about some of the wildthings going on, from ELD fraud
to just scams and unsafepractices.
How'd you feel that series went?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
It was one the most interesting and eye-opening few
weeks.
Honestly, I can remember evendoing the show, like even maybe
going back to the pandemic, likeI learned so much.
And, to be honest, I've been inthis like weird emotional area
where I'm just like stillshocked at how bad some of these

(00:42):
things are.
And it's changed my frameworkof how I honestly view the whole
industry and how I view when orif it can turn around and what
would need to happen for thosethings.
And I don't just mean likefraud and like better things.
I mean just like there is suchrampant like just handing out of

(01:03):
CDLs to just anybody andeverybody from so many places
that I'm like no wonder rateshave not cycled in four years
when that has never happened formore than a year and a half.
And I'm like it also makes mereally wonder realizing how
intertwined that is with thegovernment and all these things.
And I'm just like I don't knowthat rates will ever pick up
unless you get the slowest partof the entire country to

(01:27):
actually address these thingsgovernment and regulation and
I'm like, honestly, like it'skind of depressing.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, and we're going to today.
We're going to talk through Ijust got back from the TIA
policy forum late last week.
We're going to talk through allof what's going on on that side
of this equation.
But first, if you're brand newhere, make sure to check out the
rest of our content, whetherit's on YouTube or on Facebook

(01:54):
and our group, or if you're,just go to our website
Freight360.net.
You got all the contentdownloadable stuff full length
podcast shorts, educationalvideos, blogs.
You've got the Freight BrokerBasics course.
If you're looking for atraining option for yourself, if
you're new, or maybe for yourteam, if you're, if you're
growing beyond just yourself,leave us comments.

(02:16):
We answer them on our finalmile segment that comes out
Tuesdays.
Comment on YouTube, send us amessage to the website, et
cetera.
So all that good stuff likeshare, subscribe.
You know the usuals Anything inthe news before we hit on some
sports and then get into it.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
There's been a lot of things in the news I don't even
know.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I mean, there's always like the tariff stuff,
like tariffs are on, tariffs arebeing challenged, tariffs are
back on Trump's trying tonegotiate with certain countries
to alleviate tariffs.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, that I mean the Supreme Court is going to hear,
I think in November, whether ornot they're going to uphold
them or throw them out entirely,which could be a giant
curveball to everything, becausethe money gets refunded.
The whole, all of thegovernment debt is based on that

(03:06):
income coming in and, likeactual real interest rates
aren't coming down, even thoughthe Fed did reduce interest
rates last week.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
So, yeah, what did it go down?
Twenty five basis points, orwhat did it do?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, it went down twenty five basis points.
But I don't think everyonenecessarily understands that,
like in the news or even when,like anyone talks about it, they
think that, like when the Fedchanges which is the short term
interest rate, it's basicallywhat banks can borrow from the
Federal Reserve overnight,that's the rate that the Fed can
reduce.
But like everyone's mortgageand like those interest rates

(03:34):
are based on, like the realinterest rate or the demand for
government debt.
So like the Fed can reduce theovernight rate but mortgage
rates haven't really come downbecause our government deficits
up, there's uncertainty aroundtariffs, there's uncertainty
under who and what's going onwith the Fed and Supreme Court
cases.
So like, if other countriesdon't want to buy more

(03:57):
government US government debt,the real interest rate doesn't
come down, no matter what theFed does.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
And that's why yeah, because they're not directly
tied.
They correlate typically, butthey're not directly tied.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
They correlate typically, but they're not tied
and, like these other thingshave a bigger impact on it.
And that's why, like, even theFed's comments recently are kind
of unsettling, because normallywhen they reduce interest rates
, there's a sense of knowingwhat's around the corner.
And the Fed is makingstatements of like yeah, we
don't really know.
Like it looks like the jobmarket is related to the

(04:29):
immigration policy that could becausing this.
It could be that's whyunemployment is up.
We're not really sure how thesethings will shake out.
We don't know how much of thesetariffs are going into
inflation.
Some of those numbers came outrecently.
They looked a little betterthan expected, but, to be honest
, like if the thing that I careabout most and all of that stuff
look at what the CAS index is,which is freight shipments in

(04:53):
the country, and it is thelowest.
It's only been this low twoother times in the past 20 years
.
08, great recession andbeginning of the pandemic are
the only times the United Stateshas moved around this little of
things being purchased or sold.
So, like you can say, gdp iswhatever, but at the end of the

(05:13):
day, we're not going torestaurants, we're not buying
things, people aren't spendingmoney.
When there's less freightmoving, the economy is not doing
well and it is shrinking.
The economy is not doing welland it is shrinking Like I don't
care what is a technicalrecession.
When you can look at the numberof trucks moving freight every
day, is that one of the lowestpoints in the past 25 years?
I'm like that's not good.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, yeah, I was doing.
I was doing some research onthat actually earlier this
morning to try and see like whatthe non freight media world is
saying about all that in general.
And it came down I saw like nonfreight related media talking
about the oversupply of truckingassets that all you know came

(05:58):
into the market post covid andright, and it's what's hilarious
.
And then you still hear peoplesay like there's a truck driver
shortage of CDL shards and it'slike there is not, like there
you're being fed thatinformation by lobbying groups,
you know ATA, for example, andit makes its way to headlines
when it's just it's not thereality in our industry.

(06:19):
So you know, but anyway, sportsman, I don't know.
No, but anyway, sports man, Idon't know.
So I watched NFL Red Zone thisweekend on Sunday to kind of
watch like every game that wasgoing on, because I went to the
Bills game Thursday night.
Nice win over Miami.
But, dude, a ton of likeblocked kicks and just wild

(06:39):
endings.
The Steelers game you got the Wthere, the Browns beat.
The Packers game you got the Wthere, the Browns beat the
Packers somehow.
Philly I don't know if you sawthe Philly game.
They were about to lose to agame, winning field goal from
the Rams and Philly blocked afield goal and ran it back for a
touchdown.
Yeah, buccaneers Jets game wasanother one just like that.

(07:04):
There were so many just wild,absolutely wild games.
But the Steelers man 2-1.
I think Aaron Rodgers is kindof feeling good there.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Looking pretty decent , I will say.
I mean two quick touchdowns.
I don't think he had more than67 yards between after the first
two touchdowns and thetouchdown in the last couple
minutes.
So pretty slow offensively themajority of the game and it's
just the O-line.
I don't think he had the timeto go down field and really open

(07:38):
up some more options for him.
So in fact Roethlisberger wastalking about that last week is
that they really need and Ican't remember who he was.
He was singling out somebody onthe O-line that he thinks is
just like absolutely not able tokeep up.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
You look at your division man, the AFC North.
The Browns are the Browns, theBengals lost Joe Burrow, which I
was curious.
If I know Steven wasn't on.
He didn't talk at all in lastweek's episode.
Yeah, but he's got to be seenUsually like the Bengals start

(08:17):
off 0-2 and then start, you know, getting some wins and they
start off 2-0 and now they'regoing to have some losses.
So but yeah, it's Baltimore's1-2, pittsburgh's 2-1.
It should be an interesting AFCNorth, maybe a wild card spot
for the Steelers, depending onwhat happens in Baltimore, I
don't know.
Still a few undefeated teams outthere the Bills, the Colts
looking really good this yearChargers, philly and the Bucks

(08:43):
and the Niners there's six teamsleft left haven't lost a game
yet.
I was talking to Trey lastnight.
I'm going to go on his showthis afternoon.
He's like man.
He's like when the Chiefs go toOrchard Park to play the Bills,
he's like pretty sure the Billsare going to be 7-0.
And I was like, yeah, we have afairly easy schedule early on
all of our well, I shouldn't sayfairly easy, because all of our

(09:03):
difficult opponents are all athome.
So you get a little, you know,get the home field advantage and
whatnot, but I'm lookingforward to it, man.
It's going to be a good seasonhere.
So if anyone's a baseball fan,we're wrapping up the season
this week and you've got to racefor some wild card spots in the
American League.
So if you're tuned in on that,I think it's Detroit, boston,

(09:29):
Houston and Cleveland, I thinkare like the four that are all
fighting for like three spots.
So good luck to all your teamsout there.
Is it Ryder cup coming up?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
It is.
I think it's this week and Ishould have known that, but I
have had a busy week and haven'thad a chance to take a look at
this.
But yeah, 99% shorts this weeklet's see rider cup.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Uh, it's always a fun one.
We'll see.
I don't have.
I don't have anything in frontof me to reference here.
It's at beth page.
So long, it's long island,right, I know it's in new york,
yes, um, I just know that Ithink kevin dillon the the actor
.
He's an entourage and a bunchof other stuff.
I'm pretty sure he's like amember there.
I've heard him on podcaststalking about beth page.
So, um, all right, let's getinto it.

(10:12):
Ben had a nice week on the hill.
Um, what, uh, you want to askme?
I mean, what do you?
How do you want to do this?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
yeah, I'm well, I'm kind of curious about all of it,
because I haven't had a chanceto catch up with you at all.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Um yeah so.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
So I'll kind of give you like a high level overview,
and then we'll get into the likeum.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
This was my fourth year going to the policy forum
and if you guys don't understandhow this works, the tia is
transportation intermediariesassociation.
If you're not a member, Ihighly recommend it.
Ben and I um, along with ChrisJolly, we're actually coaches
for their new broker trainingprogram and they're a great
organization with a few thousandmember companies that are.

(10:54):
They're basically our voiceright.
They're a lobbying organization.
They help set industrybenchmarks and standards and
things like that.
They provide model contractsand they're a good, great
organization that represents usas brokers.
So throughout the year theyhave a government affairs

(11:16):
division that spends time withmembers of Congress and staffers
about various topics and issuesthat are related to our
industry.
Right there Again, they're ourvoice day in and day out
throughout the year while we'redoing our job.
And then once a year they do abig fly in event where whoever
wants to participate flies intoDC and we spend a an entire day

(11:42):
on the Hill visiting as manymembers of Congress as we
possibly can.
You kind of break up intodifferent groups based on the
state that your company's in, solike I was on Team Tennessee,
because my company's based inTennessee and I don't think
anyone was there from Kentucky.
So we hit up a Kentucky officeas well and you talk about, we

(12:02):
kind of blitz them, we blitz theHill and talk about, as many of
the you know, we reiterate theissues that maybe they they have
heard about or haven't heardabout.
So we we add on in one big fellswoop to what the governor
government affairs division doesthroughout the year.
So then, in addition to that,there's a bunch of other
ancillary events and roundtablesand meetings and panels and

(12:25):
stuff like that that go onthroughout the week.
All right, so, like I said,this is the the fourth year now
that I've been going down thereand it really it came around the
time that fraud became arampant issue.
You know before that there'sprobably legislation and
different discussion points,different discussion points.

(12:45):
But when our industry cameunder heavy attack from, you
know, double brokering, cargotheft, all the things we talked
about the last month in thatseries, we you know we made a
heavier push to get more membersthere and start telling our
stories about how it's impactedour companies, our lives, et
cetera.
You know, 2022, I go there.
I didn't know what to expectand it's a little intimidating

(13:06):
the first time, but after acouple of meetings.
You kind of get used to it andrealize that you're either
talking to a member of congresswho puts their pants on the same
way as you do, or you'retalking to a low, mid or higher
level staffer who, um, maybeisn't even listening to you and
is just thinking about whatthey're gonna have for lunch, or
they're learning from you, um,or they actually know more about

(13:27):
this than you do, and you guyscan talk together and learn from
each other.
So it's it's really like to knowhow often the last one happened
we, we had like one or two likethat this year and I'll so I'll
talk through some of them.
But so, like you know, 2022, wego there and the general
consensus is like what's afreight broker?
Like they didn't reallyunderstand who we were and what
the industry was.
And then the next year they'relike oh yeah, we remember you

(13:50):
guys from last year.
Um, and they're starting tolike, you know, they remember
what we do and we'rere-emphasizing all these issues.
So that was 2023.
By 2024, we had a house billthat was introduced and
sponsored.
That was the Household GoodsShipping Consumer Protection Act
and that's the one that wasintended to give the FMCSA the

(14:13):
authority to impose civilpenalties.
Well, naturally, you have anelection and you have a new
Congress.
So by the time we're there thisyear, that bill is still there,
but it had to be reintroducedin the new Congress.
It's under HR 880.
Now I had a different I thinkit was like four digits last

(14:34):
year, but anyway, hr 880, whichnow is an accompanying,
accompanying Senate bill 337.
So it's again.
It's still the House of Goodsshould be Consumer Protection
Act, but now we've got likebipartisan support and it's got
a House and a Senate equivalentto it you know about to be
hopefully passed, and there's avariety of different ways that a

(14:57):
bill can get passed, but that'sanother discussion.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
But what did they tell you about that?
Right, and we've had somereally good conversations.
Just generally speaking.
What is the expectation of whenit could get passed?

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Best case scenario gets passed and in that bill,
like a lot of little bills gettossed in there like the great
big, beautiful bill or whateverthat that trump's pushed through
like.
That's an example of one ofthose.

(15:30):
Another one, another way, andthis was actually recommended to
us by um congressman dejarleyfrom tennessee.
Um, we met with him directlyand he's like you guys, you know
, you only need to have he Iforget the exact number he's
like, but if, if you have thatamount of people that are signed
on to it, it can just be like,brought up when Congress is in

(15:53):
session, voted on really quicklyand passed and then sent to the
Senate.
So we don't know the exactnumber of people that have it,
that are sponsoring it.
But that's another avenue, andthere's there's other various
ones too.
If they do a funding, a fundingbill, they can tie it into that
.
I mean, there's, there's allkinds of ways to get a bill

(16:14):
passed.
By the way, it has to be, hasto go through the House and then
to the Senate.
You know, then, if you know,legislation is approved and the
whole other story then is like,are they actually going to
follow through?
And and you know, you know, dowhat you know, if the FMCSA has
the authority, are they going touse it?
And that's like a whole notherconversation, though, but that I

(16:35):
mean, that's how far we've comein in a matter of of just four.
It's really three years, but itwas, you know, september of 22
to september of 25.
Um, what I thought wasinteresting, though, is like we
started meeting with fmcsa lastyear, so this was this year, was
the second year, and they theyhad the fmcsa's chief counsel,

(16:58):
because the fmcsa hasn't hadlike a uh, a, like a head honcho
in a little while.
To my, there's been likeinterims and things like that,
but there's a new guy coming inthat we're fairly supportive of,
but their chief counsel, who'sa lawyer right, comes and speaks
to us in the most political waypossible, and you know he was

(17:19):
asked a lot of hard questionslike, hey, we've been doing this
.
You know why hasn't X asked alot of hard questions like, hey,
we've been doing this.
We know why has an X, y and Zhappened?
And when can we expect ABC?
Blah, blah, blah, and he gavethe most.
You know that's such a greatquestion, and I really think
that, you know, if we just allwork together and blah, blah,
blah, like he gave such cannedanswers.
It was.
It was almost annoying, um, butyou have to remind yourself

(17:40):
that, like the FMCSA is not.
They don't just care aboutbrokers Like we're like the
small, small potatoes comparedto every trucking company
authority that's out there andfreight forwarders and moving
companies and, you know,commercial bus companies they
all fall under the FMCSA.

(18:00):
So we had a meeting with himand then the the um after that,
before we went on the hill andthis is something that's really
cool that I wasn't totally awareof is we had a briefing,
bipartisan briefing, and thisreally like really cool uh room,
like if you ever see like uhcommittees, committee meetings,
like on tv, where like they'reall staying there and like

(18:22):
people are getting interviewedand whatnot, like it was one of
those rooms.
It's pretty cool and it was thea, a transportation
reauthorization which basicallyreups the funding and the

(18:47):
priorities for what's going tobe spent on what and you know
kind of the roadmap ahead, andit has to be reauthorized every
like every five or six years.
So the current authorizationexpires at the end of fiscal
year 2026, which is September30th of next year, right, so
they've got a year, which mightseem like a lot of time, but

(19:08):
there's a lot of backwards plandue to have it reauthorized
going into October of 2026.
So we kind of learn what thatprocess is.
A lot of what I'll talk abouttoday and the things that we
were asking for with thesecongressional meetings.
The intent is not to passindividual bills but to make
them part of thisreauthorization.

(19:28):
Next fall.
Mention here that are.
They're not new to anybody umwe're we're waiting until at
least a year from now beforethey could potentially be um
written into.
You know actual law here soit's kind of depressing.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's funny is this is just like I had family that
have worked in dc a long timeand even like ants and things
that have worked within themilitary and Congress and
specifically on like medicalthings, and my always takeaway
is basically like these thingsget passed with political
capital, meaning like you got tohave like a high ranking

(20:11):
senator or congressman that isowed enough favors from others
that he can whip the party andget them to support their bill,
to push it to actually do it,which is, to your point,
literally step one.
Then do they have the abilitynot necessarily the authority or
funds to actually implement it?
Right, like I'm looking at theTIA thing you sent, right, and

(20:33):
it's like number two on the list.
Number one is repealingoutdated requirements.
Two, finalizing brokerqualification standards.
Three, clarifying the role ofdispatch services.
I just want to read number tworight.
The bill directs the USDepartment of Transportation to
finalize the broker and freightforwarder certification
requirements that were enactedin MAP 21 more than a decade ago

(20:55):
.
These requirements ensure thatbrokers are operated by
individuals with at least threeyears of experience or
demonstrated industry knowledge.
Here's the kicker Despite beinglaw since 2012, these standards
have never been implemented.
This gap leaves the industryvulnerable to unqualified actors

(21:15):
and potential fraud.
Finalizing these rules willraise industry standards,
strengthening oversight, andensure those managing freight
transactions are qualified andaccountable.
So, like this whole process youwere just talking about, that
took four years to get to.
Here we're a year away frommaybe some of these things
getting implemented.
The ones that were passed intolaw in 2012 still aren't

(21:36):
implemented and still have hadzero impact and nothing was done
with them.
So it's like you have thisgiant thing.
You've got to get all the wayto even get into that point.
But even once you get to thatpoint, that doesn't mean that
those things are going toactually impact anything.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
I'm glad you brought that one up, because that was
super depressing.
I want to.
I'm going to circle back tothat in a second.
I want to wrap up the the thebill, the first one that we
talked about, from last year aswell the household goods.
So this is the one that givesthe FMCSA the ability to impose
that $10,000 fine for-.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Double brokering, unlicensed brokering, yep
Carrier tenders loads to othercarriers should be a $10,000
fine per the FMCSA, but theycan't one actually impose the
fine or collect the fine.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, other part of that is going to require a
physical address for brokers andcarriers.
So, for example, like PO boxesor your little UPS store
addresses, like your little boxthere not going to be okay.
So as of now, new applicantshave to use an actual address,

(22:43):
no PO boxes.
But there's still like 6,000that like we're grandfathered in
and we want that to changeright.
So that's anyway.
That's the Household Goods Act,broker Modernization Act, which
is the one that you justmentioned, and again, this is
the intent here is to have theselooped into the reauthorization
next year.
Um repealing cfr 371.3c, brokertransparency right, we want

(23:07):
that to go away.
Um altogether and thatrequirement to be totally you
know it's outdated from 45 yearsago.
We wanted to see it gone.
Um broker qualificationstandards.
So the, the TIA actually Startedto implement this themselves.
You know, because they said MAP21 passed under President Obama

(23:28):
, like stated that these werethe standard right, but no one's
finalizing them and actuallylike Saying you have to like
Check the box and this is like,yeah, you've got to have
industry experience or theequivalent education, which is
why TIA is now telling all theirnew you've got to have industry
experience or the equivalenteducation, which is why TIA is
now telling all their newmembers if you don't have the
experience that this requires,you have to go through our

(23:50):
training so that we canself-certify you, saying that,
like you didn't have the threeyears, but we've put you through
the training that we believe isindustry standard, that we can
you know rightfully allow you tobe a member of our organization
and we feel that you have theknowledge you need, right,
that's, that's the qualificationstandards.

(24:10):
And then you've got thedispatch services, which is,
like, what is a dispatch service?
What are their you knowlimitations?
Is there, is there any kind oflike licensing or anything like
that required?
That's all part of that BrokerModernization Act, and you know
to your point, how slow doesstuff work in a federal
government?
Like, yeah, we, you know thatMAP 21 was huge when it was

(24:33):
passed in 2012.
And like, here we are 13 yearslater and things that were part
of that, just like I said before, just because they were written
in doesn't mean they'reactually being implemented Right
, just because the FMCSA mightget the ability to impose fines,
are they going to right?
Again, we don't know.

(24:55):
So any other thoughts on thatmodernization act?
Cause the carrier selection one.
That's the third, third bigdiscussion we had.
That.
That is an interesting one.
That kind of ties into what wetalked about the last few weeks
on the show.
But any other thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (25:10):
um, modernization act which specific act of it I mean
like.
I mean which specific part?
I mean like, I do think thereshould be accountability
standards and some education forthe industry, right, so like, I
think it's a good thing.
I mean like, but like, there'sso many things I could break
down in MAP 21 and during, atwhich time, like, things

(25:31):
actually didn't get better orworse even over that decade,
right, one of which is therequirement of MAP 21 that
requires basically shipper Imean carriers to be treated as
motor carriers or freightbrokers to be treated as freight
brokers.
Right, but to this day, thereare major fortune fortune 100
companies that will literallyjust force a freight broker to

(25:52):
sign a contractor as a motorcarrier.
And like I've looked that upand asked quite a few attorneys
and like the way it stands islike the onus is actually on the
broker, not the shipper that isthe one requiring that
agreement to be signed.
And it's like it doesn't evenaddress who has the leverage in
that situation where it's like,yeah, map 21 says you, xyz

(26:14):
company, need to give me anagreement as a broker.
But then XYZ company goes sorry, you don't do business with me
or sign it as a motor carrier.
And then it's like, well, xyzcompany goes, sorry, you don't
do business with me or sign itas a motor carrier.
And then it's like, well, ok,in practice this means nothing.
And then when you look at it itsays like we're required as
brokers to make sure we don'tmislead the shipper, when it's
the shipper forcing us to signan agreement that is in
violation of that regulation.

(26:34):
The second big one was theyrepealed a lot of the English
language standards that werebasically around since the 1920s
because of the driver shortagethen, which is the beginning of
how all this issues with CDLsand them just being handed out
to non-domicile drivers andpeople with no addresses and
different statuses, opened thedoor wide, open, right and it's

(26:57):
like and then it precedes theELDs, which made the roads less
safe, made incidents, accidentsgo up more effective or in any
way improved from what they wereprior to that Exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
So the last one on here and again, this kind of
ties into safety and you knowthe some of the carrier
situation we talked about in thelast month is the, the motor
carrier safety selectionstandard act, and I don't know
why these all have super long,hard to say.
I don't know, but this is onethat we we brought I think it
paid by the word, yeah, we.

(27:52):
So we we had brought this up askind of like an ancillary,
ancillary, additional likediscussion point last year, but
it wasn't a big lobbying push.
But.
But the issue here and this hasbeen for years is, if you look
at the FMCSA, the S in FMCSAFederal Motor Carrier Safety
Administration should be likeone of the primary focuses of

(28:14):
that agency right is safety.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
So when we look at safety ratings for motor
carriers, National average is20%, meaning one in five trucks
is not safe to be on the roadright now.
That's the actual number putout by the safety standards.
One in five of the trucks youdrive past shouldn't be on the

(28:37):
road.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'll give you even scarier stats, right.
The stats that we had as oflast week were that 97% of motor
carrier authorities wereunrated, right, unrated.
So out of 100 companies thatare out there, three of them we
know if they're safe or ifthey're not safe right, know if

(28:59):
they're safe or if they're notsafe right 97.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
And wait, and of those we don't even know, and of
those three out of 100, onlyfour out of five trucks are safe
.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, exactly so, and that is wild.
So basically, what this says isthe FMCSA needs to create a
federal standard for what isconsidered safe versus unsafe.
Because right now, with allthese unrated companies, if

(29:30):
there's a you know we do a lotof interstate, you know like you
might cross through a dozenstates in a long haul shipment
shipment.
Think about all thejurisdictions that you run
through and what those courtsare going to determine that they
think is one standard versusthe other jurisdiction standard.
So like if I'm picking up inBoca and delivering in Buffalo,

(29:55):
right, but there's a crash thathappens in Virginia, like which
court is going to take that case?
What is their definition of youknow the standard, you know, et
cetera.
So we've got all thesedifferent jurisdictions that you
know don't have the samestandard.
So the FMCSA should I mean I'llput it as simple as this it

(30:15):
should be a green light or a redlight.
Like if I'm a broker and I'mlooking to hire a carrier to
contract them to haul load formy customer, I should be able to
go into an FMCSA database which, realistically, if that were to
happen, I'm sure companies likeHighway and your vetting tools
would extract that data andpresent it to you in a cleaner
version.

(30:35):
But the federal governmentshould be able to tell me this
carrier is safe or they are notsafe.
Right and sure You've got yourcondition on the middle or
whatever, but a federal standard.
That's basically says, likethey carry the insurance that
were required and they have thecorrect safety scores based on
our inspections, that we believethat they meet.

(30:57):
We're stamping off approvalthat they meet our federal
standard.
So if you select to use thiscarrier, you have done your due
diligence to hire a safe carrier.
Let me let my dog out here realquick.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah Well, and I think there's something that
even precedes that.
Right, like we're saying, wewant the standard to be at a
company level, but it reallyneeds to be at a truck level
because when you actually takeinto account the nuances of how
insurance can be purchased andactually level and not an actual
asset level, which is also ahuge issue.

(31:48):
And then let's layer on, duringDOT week of 2024, which is the
last results, I think, that areavailable I think something like
22 percent of people pulledover during Blitz week had no
CDL, like just didn't have acommercial driver's license,
like.
So not only are one in fivetrucks on the road not safe, but
when they were randomly pullingpeople over during Blitz Week,

(32:10):
one in five had no driver'slicense just not a CDL at all.
Right, and when you want totalk about, like these are the
roads that everyone's taxdollars pay for, these are the
roads that every tax dollar goesto pay, to pay for highway
patrol, state law enforcement,the turnpikes, all of the roads

(32:30):
you take your family on, yourkids ride on a school bus to get
to school, ambulances need touse to get to hospitals, every
single thing that our entirecountry depends on to function
with transportation, whetherit's transporting people or
goods.
20% of those vehicles are notsafe, driving 80 miles an hour,

(32:50):
three feet away in the otherdirection from your family going
on vacation.
Every single time you leave thehouse, Let me make that scarier
for you.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
So I'll make it scarier for you During DOT Blitz
Week.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
right, right, one out of five, right, and those are
of the carriers that knew formonths in advance that there was
going to be a dot blitz weekyeah, right, like still drove so
, and that was one of the so,one of the things we talked-
about think how bad it is on anaverage day, because they knew
that week was when they werepulling people over and that was
so.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
That was the thing that we we talked about with the
chief counsel of FMCSA.
One of the one of the membersof our group said like we love
the you know and the increasedinspections for Blitz Week, but
can you just not announce whenyou're going to do it?
So it's a true litmus test ofwhat's going on?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
No way, because the trucking companies are lobbying
these people.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
His response was the way the FMCSA is right now, the
intent, like their actual intent, is not to.
He didn't say it directly, buthe basically said this is like
the intent isn't to actuallyidentify, it's not to really fix
the problem, it's to make theinspections happen and to make

(34:05):
it known that we have a blitzweek, like it's more about the
event than it is about fixingthe event, the things that we
find in the underlying problem,correct what?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Well, here's another one.
There are certain shipperrequirements that need a safety
rating for a carrier to workwith that shipper Right that
need a safety rating for acarrier to work with that
shipper right.
And I've had clients over theyears and I've been involved in
some of these where they're likedude, like this company wants
to give me business, they'regreat lanes and like we have a
good company with new equipmentand experienced drivers, we
don't have a safety rating.

(34:34):
I called the FMCSA andrequested to have an audit so I
can get the safety rating andthe FMCSA like at least six or
seven of these I've beeninvolved in and been on some of
these calls and the FMCSA hassaid if you are requesting an
audit, we know you don't needone.
You're going to be the last onethat gets it.
Like they've literally told youthis.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
The reality is too like the FMCSA is given like a
year after authority is grantedbefore they're supposed to do an
audit Right, and you get a lotof turnover, like you said, 3%,
what's that?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Two 3% is the number you said of all the trucking
companies are actually audited.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yep, yep, or have that rating, yeah.
So another, another point thatcame up then.
This has to do with a lot of the, the foreign fraud that goes on
with trucking companies,brokerages too, um, but where
you've got, like, you know, anoffshore company who's got all
their minions, you know, likethink about all the eld fraud we

(35:33):
talked about in the last fewweeks right, all their minions
driving on on the, the us roads,and the boss is sitting over in
a foreign country, like reallythe one making all the money.
So one of the guys had suggested, like, well, if you, you know,
if you drive into a port or arail yard or an airport, right,

(35:54):
you need to have a twit card.
Right, and every year 600000drivers have that, you know,
they've got to have that TWICcard.
It's the transportation workersidentification credential and
basically you're doingfingerprints, you're doing
background check, home netsecurity, all this stuff, right.
And if we just required theowner or the principal of the

(36:17):
trucking company to have a TWICcard, that would, you know, huge
barrier to entry right there.
Right, so, because they're notgoing to go if they're over in
Eastern Europe or in Pakistan orwherever, right, like where we
see a lot of these bad actorsrooted from they're not going to

(36:38):
take the time to travel to theStates and go through.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
No, but they'll probably just have one of their
truck drivers be considered theowner of the company and they'll
give them the TWIC card, Right?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
right, but with your background check and your
fingerprints, and all of thattied to the ownership of the
company, who's going to agree todo?
That when they know they'retransferring authorities and it
could come back on you.
It would be a big deterrent, um.
So that was an interesting onethat that somebody had brought
up.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Um, do you know what I would have asked all all that
to say.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Like a lot of good discussions, and one of so I
know I mentioned the, theservice transportation
reauthorization, and I'm glad wewent on.
We were on the hill lasttuesday and I'm glad we were
because when I sat down inMarsha Blackburn's office she
was, I think, one of our lastones of the day.
It was a great conversation.
One of the staffers that we metwith from Knoxville or is he

(37:33):
Knoxville or Chattanooga, Iforget but Steam Logistics, big
brokerage, right.
He's like, yeah, like a lot ofmy buddies from like college,
like they, they all work atSteam now.
He's like I know what brokersdo.
I know a double.
He's like I know all this stuffyou guys are are dealing with
and he goes.
We have to submit MarshaBlackburn's priorities for that

(37:56):
service transportationreauthorization by Friday.
And I said, well, I'm gladwe're meeting with you on
Tuesday, you know, cause youguys, you know, and.
But he basically said likewe're, we're so ahead of all
this.
We're like he.
He took her in like this is aSenator, um, of the state of

(38:17):
Tennessee.
She's actually running forgovernor next year Um, she's
walked through and seen like thesales floor, and so I guess the
takeaway here is we've got alot of these congressional
leaders that they're aware ofour industry now, they're aware
of the issues and they know whatthey can do in order to
actually make an impact.
And again, we're not.
We're not.

(38:37):
We're a crumb on their plate,right, but the louder your voice
is, the bigger that crumb isgoing to be compared to
everything else on the plate.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
That's the question I'd like to ask somebody like
that is OK.
How much support do you need toactually get some of these
things in effect, right?
How many other senators youneed?
Are there ones that arespecifically more influential
than others that their supportwould allow this to get done
faster?
Who are they and how many rightthat their support would allow
this to get done faster?
Who are they and how many right?
The second question I would askas a follow-up to that is okay

(39:05):
how many phone calls do theyneed to either receive from
their constituents or dollarsdonated to their reelection
campaign to be the equivalent ofthe opposing force?
Because what we've learned, andI've learned in the past month
going into this, is like thesetrucking lobbying companies are
making so much money employingcheap labor, turning them over
and treating them like garbage,and they are funding campaign

(39:27):
reelection campaigns, right,like these giant lobbying groups
for huge trucking companies aremaking a fortune on cheap labor
.
Americans are losing their job,they're losing their ability to
earn an income, all so that atrucking company can make more
money, and then, to keep thatwhole thing spinning, they're
donating to their localcongressman and senator.
So what is that dollar numberand who does it need to apply to

(39:49):
and how many phone calls?
Right, because if with enoughpressure and enough money, like
the problem is large enough,it's just that nobody is aware
of it.
Nobody is up as upset as theyshould be and, honestly, like I
want to just be like, listen,how many more people need to die
in accidents before thisbecomes urgent enough to solve,

(40:09):
and how much of our stuff needsstolen as a country before this
becomes something that needs tobe solved inside of another
decade?
Because it's $35 billion a yeartimes 10 years, right, that's
$350 billion, and that number isgoing to go up.
What half a trillion dollars isgoing to be stolen over the
next 10 years if they move atthe same speed they did with

(40:33):
MAP-21, which still did nothing?
So in a decade they got nothingdone.
How much more do we lose andhow many more people die?
How many more families losetheir job before this becomes a
big enough problem that, likeyou, getting a few donations to
your next reelection campaign isless important than your
constituents need for safety?

Speaker 1 (40:53):
So the way I think that you know if you take away
donation, you know donor money.
The way that stuff gets done isthere's, there's a couple ways.
So, um, when somebody, so everymember of of Congress, sits on
some committee, right, there'shouse committees and their
Senate committees, things likeyour um commerce committee and

(41:15):
your transportation andinfrastructure committee and
your um, uh, defense I don'tthink it's called defense
committee, but anyway, like youknow, your military type
committee.
So like we met with one of themembers who sat on a committee
that really didn't have much todo with us but he had a guy, a

(41:36):
staffer, in his office that wasfocused on transportation and
infrastructure.
So, talking to the member of ofthe house, a lot of it was like
, yeah, that's not really likethe committee I sit on, that's
not like I don't know about alot of this stuff because it's
not my, it's not my job to be anexpert in that.
So he goes to his staffer likehey, where do we sit on all this

(41:59):
?
What does it mean for whatever?
And so you have to find theright staffer.
Who's who's the one that is theone in their ear, telling them
how to vote on things.
And then when you talk tosomeone who sits on the right
committee, like thetransportation infrastructure,
like they know all this stuff,or commerce committees, they
understand all this stuff.
And when you start having likeDanielle did a great job at

(42:20):
saying like this is a nationalsecurity issue with like fraud
and whatnot.
When you start having truth.
If you ever like, turn onnational news and you see an
oversight committee that'sbasically grilling somebody on
why they didn't do their job.
That's, I think, how this stuffgets the attention it needs.
Is it needs exposure?
Right, because you can donateall you want and influence
somebody to to push for certainchanges in government and

(42:44):
legislation or to vote a certainway or to vote a certain way.
But when they're pressuredpublicly about and they're
looking bad for not doing theirjob or for allowing things to
happen that are happening in ourindustry, that it's like I said
, I think the squeaky wheel getsthe grease.
I think that is where youreally get pressure on people
and they're forced to startlistening and either do their

(43:05):
job or they don't get reelected.
So but again, you know we, weput so much time and effort in
the last few years.
You know doing this every yearin the TI staff throughout the
year, on the Hill, every singleweek, and it's, I mean, it feels
good looking back at like howfar we've come, but it's still.
It's like man, it's been thislong and you know, if this, if

(43:25):
this stuff goes into into lawlike it's going to take how long
, and then will it even be?
Will they actually use thepowers they have and do the
things that the law states?
So I don't know.
I think it's a continued effortand the one thing, the takeaway
I want to have for brokers outthere listening and this was a
really good discussion we had asmembers of TIA there's a nice

(43:47):
panel there of leadership fromvarious brokerages is like what
are the things that we can do asbrokers, knowing that we
operate in this environment andunderstanding the gun that is
pointed at us from these badactors?
And it came down to threethings and a lot of people their
first thought is like oh, Ijust need some software, I need

(44:09):
some technology, and that's onthe list, but it's the bottom of
the list out of these threepriorities.
But the first priority was thatyour staff at all levels in your
company needs to have the righteducation on what is going on.
Right, you know what are thethreats against us.
How are these folks targetingthings?
Whether it's hacked emails orputting placards on the side of

(44:32):
trucks that are, you know, fakeor chameleon carriers.
We talked a lot about that.
So it's just, it's this simpleeducation of staying up to date
on what's happening in the news.
You know how did somebody getburned?
If you're not, if you can'tlearn from someone else's
mistake, you're, you're doing adisservice to yourself.
Whenever I hear about oh, I hada load stolen because of this

(44:53):
happened, I'm taking note,either physically or mentally,
like okay, they made thatmistake.
I don't want to make thatmistake in my company, just
having the education.
The second one is the properprocesses, your SOPs, your
standard operating procedureswithin your organization.
And that is hey, if we're goingto vet a carrier, we are going

(45:13):
to go through X, y and Z steps.
If carrier looks like this,here's our requirements for us
to contract them.
If they look like this, maybewe have a different set of
standards.
And I personally, forPierceville-wide logistics, we
have a written out well, it's inGoogle Drive, but we have a
written out standard operatingprocedure for carrier vetting

(45:35):
and we've built that over timeand I keep it updated.
It's a living, breathingdocument and as things change,
we change that and we retrainand re-educate in our entire
organization as things evolve.
And the last one is technology.
Right, because there is alwaystechnology that's out there that
will assist you to do your jobbetter, and that's things like

(45:56):
you know, your carrier vettingand monitoring and all that good
, the tools that are out there,everything from highway, rmis,
mcp, carrier share, like there'splenty of tools out there.
You've got other vendors thatcan assist you with um
protecting yourself, whether ata macro level or at a load level

(46:17):
.
Things like gen logs, uh, quickscope, text locate um, various
other um tracking telematics,some ELD integrated, some not.
Tools that are out there thatyou can ensure that you're

(46:38):
sending a rate, like Highway,for example, with their rate con
tool.
Like you're sending a rateconfirmation to the right person
and it's not a hacked email orquick scope, right Before that
driver gets a PO number to getloaded, I have verified that
they are in the right locationwith the right truck at the
right time, right.
If they don't meet all thatcriteria, they don't, they don't
pass, go or get released apickup number.

(46:59):
Gen logs A great one Right, likeI can literally see, like I
found one a few weeks back thatwe talked about where stolen
loads, weeks back that we talkedabout where stolen loads, and
thanks to gen logs and they're,I think Ryan put out today, they
have like 600 terabytes ofimages now or something like
that, like a quarter of whatNetflix has and data that
they've gotten in truck picturesbut we're able to see like a

(47:22):
VIN number, and then I see allthe pictures of that VIN number
on the highways and literallylike I see where they committed
fraud before, like we could haveprevented that, and that's
something that we learned about.
But there's technology outthere, but it's all three of
those, right, it's the education, the procedures and processes
and then the technology.
You know, if you skip one ofthose three, you leave yourself

(47:44):
vulnerable.
Right, if you've got great SOPsand you've got great technology
, but someone just doesn'tunderstand they don't have the
education to understand why orwhat they're supposed to do, it
fails.
Right, if they know what to doand why they're doing it, but
they don't have the tools toexecute it, well, that sucks too
, if they know.
You know, if they have all theeducation and they have all
these great tools but you don'thave a roadmap or an SOP of how

(48:07):
to implement it all these greattools but you don't have a
roadmap or an SOP of how toimplement it, it's pointless.
So it's a constant battle.
My biggest take on it is that,like you need, you need buy in
down to the lowest level.
And if you have people on yourteam that just repeatedly fail
to believe or understand howrisky this is, or they fail to

(48:29):
use the tools and processes thatyou provide for them, you need
to take a hard look in themirror and ask yourself is that
person a fit for your team?
Because this is the kind ofstuff that can, you know,
crumble your business.
It can tarnish a brand that'sbeen around for 40 or 50 years.
You could even like, if youhave like we have agents at
Pierce, right, we have one greatagent has one bad you know load

(48:52):
and you know it could cost thema customer, which could cost
them their agency, right, theirbusiness.
So rant over.
That's my take on all of it,ben.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I would say this right, and everything you listed
right, all of which arerecommended, and I think is a
really good point that you needlayers of security.
There is not one layer thatcatches everything and in every
single one of those layers thereis a vulnerability some bigger,
some smaller, right in tech, inyour second lever of tech, and

(49:26):
maybe in your third, in yoursecond lever of tech and maybe
in your third.
So those loopholes or thoseareas that can be exploited when
you layer on the second one,there might be a loophole over
here, but your second layer theloophole's over here.
So technically, this onecatches that loophole and this
one catches this one, and thenyour third one might have a
loophole, but it catches thefirst two and maybe has another
one.
So you get a little moresecurity and then the same thing

(49:47):
with operational proceduresright, like there is not one
thing you can do that protectsyou from everything.
But if you've got four layers,two or three layers of tech
right, maybe even three or fourin some instances, and now you
have operational education andinsight into what to look for in
the information you're gettingfrom that tech right, and then

(50:09):
some manual things on top of it,you're getting very close to
100.
Like nothing's 100.
But, like we talked about thisbefore, air is like dude.
Every single load that I'veseen stolen, okay, that I've
ever been involved in probably40 in the past year and a half,
give or take maybe two years thefirst thing I do is I do all

(50:29):
the steps we talked about.
I go through every layer of mytech stack and I look to see
where I can find the red flagsright, and in every single one I
found the red flags, usuallythree, four or five that were
missed right, the one thatalways seems to get me.
The answer is just calling theolder FMCSA phone number and
just, hey, want to verify thisload?

(50:50):
Does this dispatcher work foryou or is this truck registered
with you?
And in every one of thosestolen loads the person that
picked up the phone went oh dude, don't book a load with us.
Like our stuff got hacked or Isold the company and I've been
getting phone calls.
So every single one I've beenable to find out that you
shouldn't book the carrier afterthe load got stolen, which

(51:12):
means if you would have calledthem before you booked the load,
you would have prevented thatright.
But even as this the wholeepisode was outplaying, I'm like
I know the vulnerability in thephone call too and I know how
criminals are working aroundthat one too.
So like none of them arefoolproof, but like that is the
one that I probably talk aboutthe most because it is the

(51:32):
easiest one to do, even forcompanies that have very cheap
tech stacks or newer companiesthat can't afford every program
out there.
Like just that phone callprevents so much of this.
But I do absolutely Cause I hada call with one of our clients
yesterday on this and I'm like Iabsolutely would not move a
load in this industry without atleast these two pieces of

(51:53):
software, like I wouldn't do it.
And I'm like I know what tolook for, I know all of the free
software and you and I haverelationships with companies
that, like we can getinformation that isn't even
readily available.
And I'm like I absolutely stillwouldn't move a load without
these tools, right, like, eventhough they're not perfect, I'm
like they're absolutely anecessity in this environment.
That, like you just absolutelyshouldn't be doing things

(52:16):
without any of these things.
And we talk about them a lot.
We've talked about them lastweek because it's just like so
many of these things that werebuilt on weren't secure to begin
with.
Right, the ELD was supposed tobe this big secure thing, and
secure to begin with, right, theELD was supposed to be this big
secure thing.
And then we realized like, oh,nobody's looking at these,
nobody's certifying them, andbasically they just have big,
wide, open back doors and theycan all be manipulated.

(52:37):
So, like it didn't, it gave.
It was even worse because itgave everybody a false sense of
security, which allowedcriminals to steal more, because
they're like, oh, we've got anELD, give us the load.
And brokers are like, oh yeah,eld, give us the load.
And Brooks was like, oh yeah,eld, where'd my load go?
Three loads are gone.
What happened?
Wait a minute.
That driver's macro point justpinged in another country.
Wait, what is going on here?
Right, and it's like, little bylittle, you start to see how

(53:00):
bad the infrastructure is thatwe all rely on, which goes back
to this whole conversation of,like the FMC say to begin with,
is just like the entire databaseof what they should be
overseeing is absolutelyvulnerable, absolutely is
ineffective, inefficient, waybehind, where the industry is
Everybody's aware of it andthey're just slowly moving

(53:21):
towards a potential fix to this,which, who knows when that
comes up?
But, like to me, the biggestpoint that I think we should all
be talking about in theindustry is just like go to the
things that are the simplest.
Like talk to people, like yourfriends, your, like anybody you
talk to.
Like it's not safe to driveyour car down the road, knowing

(53:42):
that one in five trucks shouldnot be on the road.
Right, I mean like if youlooked at a video of what
happens when a tractor trailerhits anything, right, like that
is the risk everybody takesdriving on the roads every
single day and nobody is doing adamn thing to fix it or even

(54:03):
improve it.
Right, you guys are, and Icommend all the work that TIA is
doing and all the folks we workwith and you going there every
year, and it's like, even withall of this effort and good
intention, like nobody's comingto save us.
Like I genuinely think we allshould be emailing our
congressmen.
We should be making phone callsand just saying what are we
doing about this?
Because the more of us that aretalking about this, the more

(54:25):
the elected officials are goingto pay attention and feel like
their jobs depend on it, and itshould.
One of the basic expectations wehave as a citizen in this
country is to drive our car downthe street and not worry about
being killed by somebody thatisn't licensed, driving an
80,000 pound vehicle that isn'tsafe to be on the road.
Right Like that is a pretty lowbar that we have as an

(54:49):
expectation of our society andwas considered the best country
to exist on the planet up untilthis point.
But like we can't even meetthat standard.
Like that, to me, is absolutelyinsane.
And that like nobody isincensed or frustrated or
furious with how bad this is.
I think it's just because ofawareness.
Like we talked about this in alot of the past few episodes.

(55:10):
It's just like so much of thefolks in our industry talk about
it from our points of view,which is really hard for the
average person.
That doesn't work in ourindustry.
To understand right, it's likesomebody explaining to me, like
the you know biomechanics of,like you know FDA approval and
like you know peptides, like,yeah, that shit's way over my

(55:31):
head.
I don't live in that world butlike we need to do a better job,
I think, as an industry, ofreally simplifying what we're
trying to do and what we needour government to do, which is,
like, make the roads safer.
Are the trucks on the road safe?
The answer to that is no,unequivocally.
The information the FMcsa putsout shows they're not safe,
shows how many of them aren'tsafe, shows that most of the

(55:52):
drivers don't even have a cdland the ones that do are getting
them fraudulently.
At the very least, some localnews networks are starting to do
pieces on this where, like dmvsare just being defrauded for
people taking tests with camerason their shirts or like mics in
their ear.
Like I mean, this is really badand absolutely needs us as a

(56:13):
country to talk to the peoplethat shouldn't be fixing this in
order for them to fix it,because otherwise, like it's out
of sight, out of mind and ifthere's not another accident on
the major news networks in thenext couple of weeks, it just
becomes old news and people goon with their day and just hey,
if it's not on TikTok today, Iguess it's not something I
should worry about.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
I wish the cargo theft would get more attention
on national news too, like inthe scale that it's happening.
I remember like the pilferagein LA off the trains a few years
back made some nationalheadlines.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
But this is not even close but it's hard, man.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
It's hard to get any national news when you go back
to earlier this year when theyput all the entire New York Army
National Guard in the prisonsystems and that didn't even
make the national news.
So.
But Trump sneezes and it'sgoing to be everywhere.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
So yeah, it's a whole other conversation.
That kind of terrifies me inthe sense that, like, I just
think that the more we thoughtwe became connected on social
media, the less connected weactually are to what's really
happening.
And again, not trying to be aconspiracy theorist, but like I
think called an unintendedconsequence of what we thought

(57:17):
was progress was actuallysocietal regression of where we
know much less about what'shappening every day, how safe we
are and whether or not anyone'sdoing anything about it,
because somebody has a new dancevideo on TikTok and that's
awesome.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
So it's funny.
You talk about progress.
Do you know MAP 21 stands formoving ahead, for progress in
the 21st century act.
Yes, all right, good discussion.
Let us know what you guys think, if you agree with what we're
asking for, if there's otherdiscussion points that you think
the TIA should be pushing for,because this isn't just a once a

(57:53):
year thing.
Like you know, I emailedeveryone I met with last week.
I emailed them yesterday andgot some feedback from some of
them, and these areconversations that you can have
throughout the year.
So if you know where your localcongressman or congresswoman's
office offices when they're notin DC, go stop by.
Whether you meet a staffer or alegislative assistant or chief

(58:17):
of staff or an intern or themember right, sit down and have
these conversations.
What's happening in theirconstituents area and how it's
impact, impacting you know youand you know your, your team and
your company.
So that's how your voice willbe heard, not just going to DC

(58:39):
once a year and and you know,screaming on social media.
Go, go, talk about it, shareyour stories, invite them to
come out to your office and seewhat it's like and what you guys
have all the money you have tospend to protect yourself,
because the laws aren't doing itfor you.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
So I had a question for you.
Two things One happy birthday,buddy.
It was your birthday yesterday.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Thanks, man yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
The other question was you sent us a picture.
I think there was a Senatorfrom Nebraska.
Did you end up sitting in that?

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Senator from Nebraska .

Speaker 2 (59:10):
And the reason I knew it was Nebraska is because on
the episode I think you were outwe were talking about, there
was the, I think, secretary ofstate from I think I'm pretty
sure it was Nebraska Let me pullup my pictures here.
And they announced that theywere going to do a driver
immigration program with acountry of I think it was with
Kenya and Danielle put a bunchof stuff online that that

(59:34):
country had like a four or 500%greater fatality risk of CDL
drivers than like any othernation in the world and Werner
was cited in it and like it blewup on social media to the point
where the CEO of Werner likeput out a public statement
saying we're not involved inthis and I'm like I hadn't heard
anything from it since then.

(59:55):
But you texted a picture of asenator from that state.
Whenman from Tennessee.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Tim Burchett from Tennessee, marsha Blackburn,
tennessee.
I stopped by Tim Kennedy fromNew York's office just because
he has a big cutout of JoshAllen.
I don't see any Missouri onesor Nebraska ones.
You'll have to send me what itwas.
I don't recall meeting anybodyfrom Nebraska, though.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
I thought you said you might have missed that, or
like you didn't sit in there,but I'm looking up the names for
the senators.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Oh, you probably, I probably sent you all the list
of all the meetings that werehappening.
It was a picture, and whoeverin that state that they would
have had their own group andgone to it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Oh, you know what it was.
It was a picture of the TIA putout, cause I looked in the
audience and you weren't in thephoto and I sent it to you, I
think, because they were and Iwas like, wait a minute.
I'm like, I'm really curiousbecause, like, this was pretty
mainstream news for like thatweek and now they're saying
there's no official agreementfor Nebraska to hire Kenyan

(01:01:08):
truck drivers, despite recenttrade mission discussions and
rumors fueled by the Kenyanpress.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Apparently, so back to that whole thing and not to
go down this rabbit hole, butthat is where every press, every
article I could find was fromKenya.
It wasn't an American-basednews outlet, the original
sources at least, but I did notmeet with them.
But I, I mean, we probably I'mjust going to guess here as an

(01:01:37):
organization we probably hadover a hundred people that were
there and we had probably 40states.
So basically, like Tennesseegroup, we had Kentucky, because
they didn't have anyone there.
New York also had Massachusetts, so you kind of have states

(01:01:58):
covering down for one another,typically have a lot of people
from Chicago area, so Illinois,a lot of people from Texas,
florida, another big one.
So yeah, but yeah, good stuff,good conversation.
Let us know what you guys thinkand hopefully we can continue
to get the ball closer to theend zone on this stuff and keep

(01:02:20):
reacting as things change and asthe landscape evolves.
So, ben, final thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Whether you believe you can or believe you can't,
you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
And until next time go Bills.