Improving Your Sales Skills as a Freight Broker | Episode 308

Top freight sales pros don’t win with flashy pitches or closing tricks—they succeed by truly listening. This episode shows how strategic questioning, genuine curiosity, and overcoming ego-driven barriers create the trust and understanding that drive lasting customer relationships.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back.
It's another episode of Freight360.
We're going to talk some salesstuff today, but first make sure
to check out all of our othercontent and share us with your
friends.
Leave those comments andquestions either in YouTube
comments or through the website.
We did have some come throughthis last week and we'll be
answering them on our final milesegment.
So always make sure to tune inon Tuesdays or whenever you get

(00:22):
a chance to catch up and we'llget to your Q&A.
Check out the Freight BrokerBasics course on our website if
you're looking for educationaloptions for your team or just
for yourself to start and growyour brokerage.
Ben, we're getting towards whatfeels like the end of summer,
even though we're technicallyonly like we got like another
month or so left.
But it feels like you know.
I don't know, maybe not inFlorida, where it's probably 90

(00:44):
degrees every day still, butdude, it's so hot, but I'm so
excited for the fall.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Ava's been in school for a week and a half now.
She went back last Monday.
It's awesome, like she lovesriding the bus.
It's her first time riding thebus, so it's super cute watching
them, you know, get on the busfor the first time, like she's
super excited.
But I cannot wait for theweather to break too.
It is just 94 every day, norain, lentiless humidity, and

(01:10):
I'm just like I can't wait forit to like cool down.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
we just got like a break in the heat, like it's
been really really hot.
Um, I think like july and thebeginning of august was like one
of the driest summers I've hadin a while up here and we
finally just start getting somerain as of like Sunday, and it's
rained like every day and it'skind of nice because I just my
grass is turning green again andI had grass planted this year

(01:37):
because I had some landscapingstuff ripped out and it's
finally like filling it.
So a nice little break forabout a week or so, it's, it's
nice, but I still want, I wantthat push of the last bit of
summer before inevitably it'shoodie season, so it's football
season, though I mean the Billsgot their asses kicked.
I don't know if you saw theSunday night preseason game in

(02:00):
Chicago 38 to zero.
A lot of it's a lot of bad, alot of bad things happened in
that game.
So all you Bears fans, good job.
Caleb Williams looks good.
Bill's starting offense didn'treally play, so there's not a
whole lot really to say there,but our defense just has a lot
to work on.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's always like it's so hard to garner anything from
preseason.
Because it's like, if they dowell, it's like okay, well, who
are they doing well?
Against preseason.
Because it's like, if they dowell, it's like, okay, well, who
are they doing well against?
It's probably not the firstteam.
And then if they do poorly,it's like okay, like, did they
really do poorly or are theyjust not playing the same plays
that they might play in the inthe actual season?
And it's just.
I mean, it really is practice.

(02:38):
Yeah, like it's good to seepeople going through routines
and stuff and you can, I'm sure,garner some insight, but for
the most part, the score to meis absolutely irrelevant yeah,
yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
You can kind of treat each drive and almost each play
at some points as individualand exactly like they like
that's where you learn something.
Yeah, like you know, you gotlike a fourth.
I think the one play was likefourth and eight and it's like
in a real game, they never wouldhave would have gone from it
Like, all right, you know it'spreseason, let's, let's practice

(03:09):
this and kind of see how thecoaches react and how the
players react and all that stuff.
Um, I would have liked to seelike some points on the board,
but we just stopped watching it.
So, um, hard knocks, though.
Another episode dropped thisweek.
It's just getting me ready forthe season, man.
So one more week of preseasonand then, yeah, we got to.
I believe it's a.
Is it a week off?
And then, yeah, week off, andthen the regular season, if I

(03:32):
got that.
Yeah, yes, correct, becauseLabor Day weekend, and then get
into the season the followingweekend.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
US Open kicked off this week.
Tennis.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Oh yeah, so I'm not a big tennis guy, but what's the
big rundown on it?
That's one of the big four,right?

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, it's two.
It's like the four majors, Ithink.
In the order it goes Australian, the French Open, then
Wimbledon, then the US Open.
I mean it's only the first twoor three days in.
So like, basically it's a bunchof qualifiers.
I mean I kind of have it on thebackground.
I mean it's nuts Even watchingthe qualifiers with unranked

(04:09):
players, dude, they're so goodLike just watching them and
practicing and playing moretennis this year, like I can
tell just how much better theyare than just watching regular.
I mean it's just night and day.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
So side note on tennis I was away for Army late
last week and throughout theweekend down in Pennsylvania we
had we went out for like dinnerthe one night at like a local,
like restaurant right off thebase.
They had like it was like quiznight basically, and one of the
questions I had no idea Ilearned this about tennis Did
you know that?

(04:41):
The question was like the DavisCup, which sport is it like the
premier or whatever for.
The question was like the daviscup, which sport is it like the
premiere, whatever for?
And I was like it's definitelynot.
It was like was it tennis,badminton or something else?
And I was like badminton, Iguess they're like nope, it's
tennis.
And I was like I've never heardof the davis cup before.
That's like the premierinternational, like event or
whatever.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I don't know here's the cool thing about that.
I just learned this too.
On like Monday they weretalking and doing interviews
about the Davis cup the Daviscups right up the street.
It's in Delray beach.
So next month I'm going to takeAva, because it's literally
like I literally ride my bike upto where the tennis center is.
It's a huge tennis center rightup the street from us.
It's in the middle of Septemberand I mean like I'm super

(05:22):
excited.
Tickets are only like 50 bucks.
So like I'm definitely going totake Ava and my wife up next
month to go to it.
Didn't know about it at all,didn't know?
I mean, I've heard of it, butlike I had no idea.
To your point.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Everyone knows.
Like the big ones, you knowwhat I mean.
Like Wimbledon, was it the?
What are the open?
The french open wimbledon, andthen us open, us open, okay,
french open.
I didn't realize there was afrench show.
It's the clay court one.
Oh, that's right.
That's right, um, so that'ssports news.

(05:52):
Uh, it's hurricane season.
Right, this is something wetalk about literally every year.
Yeah, and because it doesimpact freight on a micro level,
if, um, well, it's usually when, when there's a storm that
directly impacts the us.
So, like this first one, is it,I think, hurricane erin?
Um, not a direct landfall, it'sthe first, um, I believe it's

(06:16):
the first hurricane to like.
Actually, is it the firstactual hurricane of the season?
Does that sound right?

Speaker 2 (06:23):
yeah, there's probably been named ones because
they start at a yeah, butthey'll start like as a tropical
storm.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
I think it's the first one that actually turned
into like a.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Either way, we're early, it's august, so we're
early into uh in hurricanehurricane season starts in june,
by the way, like they starttalking about on the news in
june, but like I have never evenseen a hurricane warning.
I've lived here for 10, 11years, until late September.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
October.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
And pretty much.
It's basically like six weeks,like middle of September to like
end of October, when the ocean,I guess, is warm enough that
they start making landfall.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yep, yeah, I remember it's wild.
I think back to like HurricaneSandy, superstorm Sandy back in
2011 or 12, 12, maybe, um, thenational, so that one impact,
that one hit like New York Cityand the National Guard, like we
all got involuntarily activatedlike for a month, and that was

(07:19):
October.
Because I remember, um, Iremember after the storm hit, it
snowed like three days laterand I was like this is the, this
is like October in New York.
You literally never know whatyou're going to get.
We just had a hurricane come inand flood New York City and rip
up Staten Island and then itsnows like just insane, but yeah

(07:41):
, but anyway a big takeaway whenyou've got these storms Insane,
but yeah, but anyway a bigtakeaway.
When you've got these storms,I'm telling you guys, if you do
any kind of female work oryou've got business that's in or
out or affected by, those arehistorically the areas that get

(08:06):
either direct impacts orresidual effects and it's going
to disrupt the market for like aweek or more, depending on you
know how severe and the size andall this stuff.
So you'll see on a micro level,like trucks just get out of
Dodge, nothing happens for a fewdays.
The storm clears and then boom,there's this huge demand and it

(08:26):
could just be standard freightbusiness or it could be FEMA.
It could be FEMA pre stagingthings beforehand.
Right, you've got there's likea bunch of different areas
throughout the states that arelike staging areas for like
basic supplies like water andMREs, those meals and generation
, power generators and powerinfrastructure, things like that

(08:49):
.
So keep an eye on that.
And then don't forget, likesome of these storms have
residual weather effects thatpush all the way north for, like
you know, four to seven daysafterwards, so you'll have
lesser impacts in those areas.
So this is kind of like yourprecursor to like winter weather
, um, but in the tail end ofsummer.

(09:10):
So happens every year.
We talk about it every year.
Don't be surprised when thatfirst hurricane disrupts your,
your customer's business,because we know every single
year when hurricane season is.
So that's my, uh, my news, um,oh, dude, other big news thing
and this was actually down inyour area and, well, my parents,

(09:30):
town of fort pierce, that isthe uh, yeah, so the we had it
in our newsletter this week andit's, it's all over, it's on,
like you know, it's nationalnews right, the the carrier that
um illegal u-turn on theFlorida Turnpike.
I don't know what's your.
I guess what are you hearing ona local level Cause it's down
in your area and then I'll givehim.
I'll give you my spin on it,cause I had.

(09:51):
I had a long discussion aboutit with someone yesterday.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
I didn't really.
I mean, there hasn't been likelike there's not much more
coverage than what happened.
The guy made an illegal U-turnand killed three people and
didn't look like he gave a shitat all, like the guy sitting
next to him is eating potatochips and he makes an illegal
U-turn and kills three people.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Well then, you find out, he's not even legally in
the United States.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh, didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, so he's an illegal.
The guy was, I want to say likethree years ago he had a and I
could be terribly wrong here, Imight be misquoting this, but I
believe something happened likethree years ago that he had like
a warrant to be deported orwhatever, but he was.
So he's either way not legallyin the United States, but he was
somehow issued a CDL from thestate of California.

(10:38):
So this is this big questionnow.
Like one of my guys called meyesterday and was like he's like
I could have loaded that guylike all day long.
He's like how do I know tocheck for like legality?
on the driver level Because he'sworried about broker liability.
You can't even get to that.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
You have to pay for that In order to get that
information, you have to pay,and I don't even think you can
get it as a broker because, likewe tried, I think, last year,
and dug into that to see whatwas available, and like you pay
for it, and I think you need tohave like an asset MC and you're
paying for like employmentrecords and it has to do with
like restrictions around gettingrecords for like hiring and I

(11:20):
genuinely don't know.
I don't know it's not HIPAA,but like it's for sure wasn't,
and it was like 20, 25 bucks, Ithink, per record and you had to
wait like a few weeks.
It's not something that'sreadily accessible, if I
remember.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, so here's I'm reading this directly off of.
This is actually the the Timesof India, because he's a.
His name is Harjinder Singh,indian immigrant trucker.
It says he flunked the Englishproficiency and road signs test
after the crash.
He only answered two out of the12 questions correctly.
So this is that big, you know.

(11:53):
So it was one of those likeemergency only, basically what
police use to turn.
So you know he pulls off to theright side of the road and then
tries to do a U-turn throughthat median onto the other side
of the turnpike and there aresigns there that tell you you
can't do that.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I've seen this.
I mean I've driven up and downthat road many times, like I
know exactly.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Right.
And then they give him theproficiency test and he got two
out of 12 questions correct.
So that's where I think the bigproficiency thing comes into
play, and, um, but either way.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
I mean it's kind of common sense, like English or
not.
It's a giant sign that has abig red, a big black upside down
you with like red lines throughit.
It's not like you have to readit, like you just have to see it
.
I mean, my daughter, who's six,would be like yeah, don't turn
around, right, dad.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Exactly, exactly.
So that brings up the bigquestion of like.
You know, when I, when I've gotone of my guys call me like
dude, like I'm vetting thesecarriers out and I'm making sure
that they're they've gotinsurance, that they've got the
authority that they've got, youknow, I'm looking at safety
stats, he's like, but I can'tsee driver level data.
I don't know if this guy, likehe's like what am I supposed to
do, ask him for to prove hiscitizenship.

(13:03):
And I was like, oh my God, it'sa great question.
I said I'll definitely bring itup in our discussions on on the
Hill and DC in a few weeks, butwe don't have access readily
available to that.
Nobody does drivers on a driverlevel basis.
Like, yeah, we can ask for adriver's license.
You know if a customer requiresit for checking license.
You know if a customer requiresit for checking, but like he

(13:26):
has, he has, he's got a CDLright, but he's.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
But he's not, but he's government and the state
allowed to be driving.
So it's super weird.
And somebody told me like youdon't even need like
documentation to get like aregular driver's license, like
you can just get one withoutlike proving that you are like
your citizenship.
And apparently it's the samewith CDLs.
And it's also notstraightforward either.
Like my wife immigrated here inlike 98.
And like occasionally we've hadto send documents like her

(13:53):
green card.
I don't even know what it is,but there are like four or five
different categories, if Iremember it's like naturalized
citizen green cards, workingvisas.
It's not like a black or whitesystem either where it's just
like oh hey, you have thisdocument or you don't.
There's like four or fivedifferent categories you could
be under.
Like it is not even if you havethe information to like

(14:14):
somebody that doesn't do that orisn't in that side of things.
Like it is really hard tounderstand what and where
somebody is qualified to dowhatever work in any industry,
let alone this, and it's justlike.
The part that kills me is likeit absolutely are these
government agencies that aren'tdoing their job, in a sense of
just not vetting, not checkingthese things, giving people

(14:36):
licenses and allowing people tooperate these things and then
it's like, ok, well it's, we'relegally liable for not checking
what we can't check withinformation we don't have,
because the government is ineptand can't seem to get their arms
around verifying and vettingthe businesses and the people
driving this equipment on publichighways.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
It's absurd, see.
I think if you fast forwardthree years from now, I bet
you're going to start to seesome level of driver level data,
whether it's minuscule or youknow, or more detail.
But I believe our vettingsoftware is, in general, is is
aiming to get to that pointwhere, like I know Quickscope,

(15:19):
their newest version thatthey're going to release their
goal is to get to driver leveldata where you can see not just
how the carrier performs but anindividual driver, so like a
driver scorecard and things likethat.
So and I I would be willing tobet that other, um, you know,
other carriers or otherplatforms and services are
probably going to aim to dosomething similar.

(15:41):
So because when you try to takeeveryone, like if you go to a
carrier that's got 10,000, likeLandstar, like 10,000 drivers or
whatever it is right and likeyeah, the MC looks good, but
like how do I know how one guyor gal is going to perform
versus somebody?

Speaker 2 (15:54):
else, now throw in leased in drivers and you got
leased on drivers.
I mean, there's so many caveatsthat make that almost
impossible to do from like notthe consumer side, but like the
business side of things.
I mean, I guess like the publicside, not the government side,
like you just literally don'thave the information and there
isn't any straight line betweenLet me see if I can find this.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
I had two instances this week that I want to share
because these are let's see if Ican find it Basically two fraud
things that were caught.
Uh, okay, yeah, so, um, we want.
These are two of our, of ourbrokers in our company.
So one of them was was talkingto a quote-unquote dispatcher,
um, whose phone number was notan approved phone number in

(16:38):
highway and even though thecarrier passed all of our rules
in highway and everything, um,this the girl.
She ended up calling thatcarrier and saying, hey, I'm
talking to so-and-so who'ssaying they're from your company
and um saying that they're adispatcher for you and like the
carrier's like no, we don't knowwho that is.
So, like the, the stolenidentity and like, basically,

(16:59):
this carrier, like no one hadflagged them yet for a stolen
identity, otherwise we wouldhave known like, yeah, they're
going to fail our rules, notthat we can't use them, but if
we would have saw, hey, victimof identity theft, we're going
to verify the name and phonenumber, who we're talking to,
whereas this one hadn't beenflagged yet, no one reported it
and we might've been, you know,the first attempted victim of a

(17:20):
stolen load, right, so that wasone.
So make sure, gave you know,gave MC number and everything,
and showed up.
I think it was.
It was either.
I think it was quick scope thatcaught it.
Like they went and got there,they did their picture at pickup
and like the MC didn't match upand it failed verification, so

(17:42):
like we were able to catch itright there and it's like you
know.
Then they try and say, oh yeah,like I'm leased on, it's like
you're not leased on becausethat you know your lease
agreement and you're not leasedon because that you know your
lease agreement and your.
First of all, if you're leasedon and representing a certain
company, you need to have theirMC on the side of their truck.
Yes, right, so it was basicallytwo attempts at stolen freight

(18:03):
and fraud.
So keep your eyes out for thatkind of stuff.
The only way in a soft freightmarket, the only way that
scammers are able to make moneyis by theft, whereas, like you
go back four years ago, theycould just rebroker freight and
make a little bit.
They'd skim off the top and,like you know, do that in volume
and make money.
And now it's like, well,there's not enough money in the

(18:23):
business, now.
There's not a freight flowingright now that they just have to
steal stuff.
So wild, yeah, crazy man.
Did you see the video?
I think it was.
Uh, I think it was jason milleron with ken ademo, maybe
leffler talking about watched itlive.
I was actually talking withthose three yeah and they're

(18:44):
talking about like freight rates, and jason miller was like,
sorry to like break the news toyou.
He's like, but basically we'renot going to see any movement
until late 2026 and I was like,oh my god, that's like a four
year trucking recession,absolutely wild.
We don't know what's going tohappen.
There's just nothing, isnothing externally is moving the
needle like far enough to tojolt you know, jolt us out in

(19:07):
the other direction.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, tariffs are putting more and more pressure
downward pressure on consumersand the volume of goods being
shipped, and they're slowingdown.
It's not speeding the economyup, it's doing the opposite.
As we were about to pull out ofthe freight recession, the
tariffs basically threw a bigwet blanket on the market, and
we're still trying to peek outfrom underneath it.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, Yep, all right.
Well, what can we talk abouttoday?
Ben, this was your idea.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Talk about sales.
We haven't talked about that ina while and, just like I think,
expectations, how to approachcalls, fundamentals or basics,
but like they always work.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Like your value proposition, almost, or kind of.
What's the angle on it?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
No, even more basic, right, like I always try to go
down to like what is like theroot cause of anything.
Like as simple as you canexplain it.
If you ask enough questions,you can get down to like the
fundamentals of like anything.
Right, most people try to solveproblems from like the symptoms
, or like one or two stepsremoved, meaning, like what do I

(20:08):
say?
What is the perfect way to talkto somebody?
How did I speak in a way thatmakes them want to buy the thing
I say?
What is the perfect way to talkto somebody?
How did I speak in a way thatmakes them want to buy the thing
I have?
Like that is so far down fromlike how you actually connect
with people that like yeah,you'll get a few more, but like
that doesn't really help you getor improve at it.
Right, and I'll give you anexample.
Like I'm going to take ananalogy of golf, right, cause

(20:30):
you play quite a bit of golf andlike I think about them very
similar Tennis, golf, baseball,basketball anything you're
trying to do physically is verysimilar to what you're trying to
do with your voice and a phoneor trying to do in sales, right?
So, like in golf, people willgo.
You're slicing the ball.
Just change your grip a littlebit, okay, maybe you will slice
a little less.

(20:50):
You're still going to slicebecause, fundamentally, the
problem isn't in your hands.
It's probably how you'restanding, how you're actually
mechanically bringing the clubback and how you're swinging it
Right, not the very last piecewhere the club head meets the
ball, it's all the way upthrough your body, how you're
standing, your posture and doingthat consistently.

(21:10):
That's why someone hits a goodball and then a terrible ball,
because they're not payingattention to that.
Their shoulders are leaningover.
The next time, their feetaren't in the same place and if
you have a pendulum on atriangle and you move the
triangle, the pendulum movesunderneath it Like that's all.
A golf swing is right.
You got to go all the way downto like the fundamentals of like
how you start shooting a freethrow.
It's not just how the ballleaves your hand, it's where

(21:31):
your arms are, how you'restanding and the way you, your
mechanics, are.
That's why, fundamentally withlittle kids, that's what they
teach them, right.
Even running, you can runincorrectly and inefficiently
and you can run efficiently andcorrectly.
It has to do with how you'rerunning, not how fast.
You start there and then youimprove from there, right?
Weightlifters talk about thesame things, like if you want to

(21:52):
get better at that.
Like you start fundamentallylifting like literally no
weights until you get good atthe movement and then you
increase your weight.
You don't do it incorrectly andjust keep putting more weight
on.
You just break things andthings fall apart.
Right.
Well, in sales, right, like,fundamentally, the objective is
to just get people to know you,like you and trust you.
Right, like that's who peopledo business with in any scenario

(22:15):
, right?
So when people are thinkingabout like, how do I sell A sale
is the result, and we alwaystalk and kind of joke like it
shouldn't be called sales, itshould be called shins.
And you occasionally get a salebecause, like, statistically,
out of a hundred attempts youget one or two sales, 98 are
rejections.
Right, and the goal is how do Iget less rejections and more

(22:37):
sales?
But that's the result.
Right, and we normally talkabout like the simplest way to
solve this is to just make morecalls.
Because, well, if I make 500calls and you make 200 and we
each get two out of 100, I getmore than you.
Okay, that is true, but if yougo all the way back and you

(22:58):
think of like who are reallyeffective at sales and like this
is one of those cliches is likeGod gave you two ears and one
mouth, use them proportionatelyIn sales, you should be
listening more than you'retalking, right?
So go all the way back to thefundamentals and think about
anybody you've ever connectedwith that you actually enjoy
talking to.
Does that person talk 90% ofthe time, or do you talk more
and that person listens?
Most of the people you enjoyspending time with at least
listen as much or probably morethan you're talking, and that's

(23:21):
why you enjoy spending time withthem.
The same way they always say islike, the sweetest sound to
everyone's ears is their ownname, right?
Like people like to talk aboutthe things they're interested in
, and if you're listening, thatperson's happy.
They're connecting with you andsales is far more about
listening than it is evertalking, right?
But no one ever wants to talkabout that because they're like
oh well, what do I need to sayto get them to say, yes, it's

(23:44):
actually counterintuitive.
It's like how do I listen moreand just ask a few questions to
keep that person talking.
That's how two people actuallyconnect.
And also, by the way, likethat's how communication happens
, you aren't learning shit ifyou're talking, if you're
listening, you learn lots ofthings about the other person,
their business, what they needand what they don't need, and

(24:04):
that is closer to thefundamentals of what most people
aren't doing, especially earlyon in sales.
That they miss and it's mostlybecause their ego's, in the way
they're nervous, they're scared,they're worried about a result,
so they're just talking andtalking and talking and like
I'll get on sales calls witheven people on our team, or like
like clients and I'm like ifyou listen to that call, I'm
like who talked the most?
They're like why did I'm likeyou talk or a lecture?

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I guess it sounds like a lecture.
I want to hop in here becausethis it brings up two.
I'll give you a freight relatedone and a generic sales example
from the past.
When you go into a salesconversation, it's good to have
to have general understanding ofwhat the case might be for a

(24:53):
customer, but not to have apredisposed assumption that
those things are true.
So, and what I mean by that is,let's say you're targeting a
customer in Florida and it'sduring hurricane.
Let's say, no, I'm not going touse hurricane, we'll just say
we'll talk about, like produceseason, you know, don't go in
and assume, like you mightassume, based on the time of

(25:14):
year, there's an impact from,you know, harvesting and
availability of certainequipment types and yada, yada,
yada.
If you go in with thatassumption and never ask and
just have your conversation withthat assumption and you're
wrong, the conversation is goingto go, it's going to fall on
its face, right, because it's,you know, the same thing, like
you might assume right now thata customer is having, you know,

(25:36):
not a whole lot of issuesgetting equipment, or you know,
trucks, because of where themarket's at on a macro level and
that they're just pricesensitive right now.
Blah, blah, blah and you talkto that customer and you're
trying to sell on price and thatcustomer is like I don't want
the cheapest truck.
My issue here is like if I don'tget this delivered on time and

(25:57):
with great service, I'm going tolose my customer.
The same thing.
I remember this happening whenI worked at Best Buy.
I've given a couple of examplesof my my college years.
But like I remember back toschool season literally right
now people are going to going tocollege or back back to high
school or whatever, and a lot ofpeople are buying laptops.
And I remember like at the time, um, every brand came out with

(26:21):
like their cheap level, like hey, it's got four gigs of Ram,
it's got two, 56 gigabytes ofhard drive space, dual core
processor.
That was like the standard, youknow, if you go back 15 or 20
years, whatever it was.
And we had this one sales guy.
He was like, he was liketerrible, but he was even his
best buy.
So like it's not, like we're,we're selling like massive uh

(26:44):
ticket items here.
But this is a guy like arguewith customers and tell them
what they needed.
So I remember this one.
This one person comes up and itwas like august and he just
assumes, based on the age of theguy that was trying to buy a
computer, that he was a studentgoing back to school and he's
like trying so hard and the guykeeps asking to look at other
computers and he keeps trying tosell them like these, like the

(27:05):
base model the best back toschool computer.
And eventually, like the guycomes over to me and he's like
dude, I'm just trying to buy agaming computer and this, this
dude, keeps trying to push me onwhatever, and I'm like, all
right.
So I'm like, well, hey, let's,let's talk about what games are
you playing.
We can actually look up and seewhat the requirements are and
then recommended specs, and thenwe can show you some of the
options that are out there.
And it was just that little,slight difference of like

(27:27):
listening.
Not everybody everybody's in thesame situation at the same time
, just because of what'shappening.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
And listen, don't make assumptions.
Right, Making an ass out of youand me, right.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
And if you listen, you understand where, or if you
can actually help that person,right, yeah, so I think if you
go into all these conversationsas almost like a curious little
investigator, right, I want tolearn, like, first of all, I
want to show that I'm curiousand my interest has peaked about
your industry, cause if I'm, ifI can get you talking about

(27:57):
what you do every day, you'regoing to enjoy talking about it
and I'm going to be able tolearn a ton about your business
and I'm going to start touncover certain things.
I'm not going to go in and say,hey, yeah, I know you guys are
all price sensitive right nowand trucks are easy to get and
blah, blah, blah.
It's like, well, that may notbe the case right now.
So I, you know that was a longwinded interjection there.
Not at all, it was 100% superrelevant.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Right, because like and I'm going to go on a tangent
and then I'm going to bring itback in a second, because this
is what made me think about thisand how I got to this point.
Right, which was, I remember,when I first got married right,
and like it a kid, and your lifeis very different, and like you
are trying to connect with thatperson so both of you can
understand each other andcooperate.
Right, like just basics.

(28:38):
Right Of two people livingtogether.
You don't need to go down likethe avenues and like what that
all means, but it's like OK,like fundamentally, that's what
two married people are trying todo is to go from living by
yourself to working as a team,living together in a way that
both people are happy.
Right, and at this time, I'mreading all these consulting,
coaching books.
I am going in deep dives intopsychology, how the brain works,

(29:00):
and honestly, a lot of it waslike manipulation, like how you
can literally use techniquesthat are used in, like the
intelligence industry, the FBIinterrogations to literally
manipulate people, how to readwhat they're doing and how to
use subtle cues to get them todo what you want, and I thought
that was sales until I wasprobably 35.
So that's where I spent most ofmy time and energy and you kind

(29:21):
of realize that, like one, it'sexhausting to do, that it takes
so much focus and concentrationto be paying attention to these
minute things to execute that.
That one, it's not enjoyable.
And two, even when it works,you kind of feel like shitty
about yourself in a way, becauseyou know that like you
basically created that outcome.
In a way that, and also what Ialso noticed in like other types

(29:43):
of sales I would do is youwould lose a certain percent of
them for buyer's remorse.
Like I could get people to sayyes over and over in
transactional sales, but likethe next day or two when they
thought about it, they realizedlike they didn't really want
that anyway and they wouldcancel.
Right, and you have thisproblem of like you get more but
people are going to havebuyer's remorse and they cancel.
And it's because, like you'reliterally spiking their emotion,
getting them to the buying lineand getting them and closing

(30:06):
them right there by getting themto give you the closing details
, signing your agreement orwhatever it is, and then they
think about it and realize likeoh, that was just like an
impulse buy and you get reallygood at getting people to buy
things impulsively.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
So so I think back to like well, continue, and I'll
hop back in.
I'm going to take it back to mymy Conway Freight days and how
we sold there.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
So, as I got married and then, like I remember this
very vividly, like where theywould be like I don't even want
to say like an argument, but itwas really more just
misunderstanding, where both ofus had the same objective but we
weren't really understandingwhere either person was coming
through.
And I remember literallyplaying conversations back in my
head, just like I would do atwork, right, because that's
where I spent most of my time,listening to sales calls and

(30:51):
listening for these cues.
And I'm like I know I said thatin this way and I know when she
said this, I responded this way.
I repeated back her what shesaid so that she felt heard, I
said it in this way.
And I'm like focusing on thesemantics of language and I'm
like I don't understand whywe're still upset with each
other when I feel like I didexactly what I've learned how to

(31:14):
do in sales but at marriage,like it just kind of didn't work
and I'm like I don't know whatI'm missing.
And I remember digging intothat question because this is a
years long process and liketalking with, like I think it
was like my coach at the time orwhatever, and I'm like I feel
like I'm not connecting with heremotions, but I'm connecting
with the logic, right, and themore I thought about it, I'm

(31:36):
like, oh, that's the surfacearea, the words, but where she's
coming from is like I'm notconnecting with how she feels
about the situation.
And then I at first went like,well, why can't this other
person just put into words whatthey're feeling better?
And I'm like, well, if you goback to it, like you can't make
anybody do anything differently,you can't train somebody else
to speak in a different way.
Like you have to changeyourself to be able to

(31:58):
communicate better.
And I'm like what I really needto do is to be able to learn how
to communicate and understandor actually, more simply put,
feel what this person means, notjust what they're saying.
Right, what is the meaningunderneath the words?
Right, and this is where, likeit sounds like I don't know,
like a theory or whatever, butlike I kind of started digging

(32:23):
into meditation because, likeall meditation really is, the
more I started reading about it,it's like you practice being
quiet with yourself and justbeing aware of what your own
brain or ego is telling you allday.
The crazy noises like thethoughts, the racing worries,
the anxiety about a load pickingup.
I got to call this person back,I got to do my laundry.
That racingness, that isactually what is preventing you

(32:43):
from feeling what the otherperson means.
And it doesn't mean just inlike a relationship, like
literally in a business context,like just being open enough to
hear what you mean when you'retalking to me about even
logistics.
I can't hear that shit.
If my brain is literallydrowning you out, then I'm just
waiting to speak.
And that's what they say incommunication is like you can
either communicate by listeningand then responding, or waiting

(33:08):
until you're done talking to saywhat I'm already going to say,
or I'm already thinking aboutwhat I'm going to tell you while
you're talking.
And I didn't hear anything.
You said Right.
And I noticed that like the moreyou practice that, like even if
it's five minutes a day, tojust be quiet and just be aware
of what your brain is tellingyou and just going, oh OK,
that's a worry, and you juststart to identify them, that

(33:30):
stuff.
It's like turning the volumedown in your own brain.
And the more you practice that,the more I was able to like be
aware of what other people meant, not just what they said, and
like the more I practiced it,like I started to notice, like I
got way better at sales.
And it wasn't closing deals, itwas just that if I talked to 10
people and normally I couldconnect with one or two out of

(33:52):
10, I can connect with five orsix now because, like I'm not in
my own way and I'm notpreventing myself from hearing
what that person is saying andit doesn't matter what they're
talking about.
Like it could be the mailman, itcould be a business call.
But, like to me, like that isthe root hurdle for most people
in sales is they're so anxiousand worried about their own fear

(34:12):
about not selling, their needto sell more, they're worried
about not having enough money,they're worried about not having
a job, that all that worry isactually clouding their ability
to just listen to the personthey're calling, which is the
root problem of why you're notselling more.
You're just not connecting withenough people because you can't
quiet your own shit down enoughto hear what somebody means,
not just what they say.
Dude, I shit down enough tohear what somebody means, not

(34:33):
just what they say.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Dude, I got so much to add here.
So the one of the reasons weare all about repetitions and
lots of calls, lots ofconversations Think about how a
large language model is builtright.
Think about how, yes, gptContext Right.
Like, the more conversations ithad, the more it learned, the

(34:54):
more it listened to feedback,and then you have these new
models right sales people,freight brokers, right develop.
In the same way that the morerepetitions you put in, the more
times you ask a question, themore questions you ask, the more
answers you get, the moreobjections you get.
You start to understand.
That's why, like I can go intojust about any conversation
related to our industry rightnow and, without having to like

(35:17):
think, I can, or you know,without having to like think
hard, I can usually justnavigate through the
conversation because I've I'vehad thousands and thousands of
them over years and that's whyyou know these.
The repetitions help.
So it's funny, one of thethings you have are you familiar
with the spin selling method?
Have you heard of that one?

Speaker 2 (35:35):
I've heard of it, but I'm not familiar I had to pull
up the.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
I had to kind of refresh my memory Cause this is
this was like the what when I,when Conway freight was still
around and I worked there, thatwas like the prescribed sales
methodology and it really goesinto what you were saying
earlier.
So it's it's situation, problemimplication and needs payoffs

(36:00):
for like basically it's a lot ofasking questions right and
hearing responses.
So it's that active listening,that whole God gave you two ears
and one mouth that you talkedabout earlier and really trying
to understand and get into themindset and the shoes of the
customer.
So situation is, and it's it'sfunny because we, like a lot of
the examples that I pulled uphere for freight brokering and
for freight broker sales arethings that you and I have said
for years.
So, like situational questions,it helps you understand the

(36:20):
customer situation.
So things like you know what'sa typical lead time for one of
your shipments, what lanes areyou running on a regular basis,
do you have a set of groupcarriers or brokers that you
work with, or you know how dothings look spot versus contract
.
You're trying to justunderstand.
We're not even proposinganything right now.
We're just trying to learn,qualify, understand the

(36:41):
situation of that customer andthen it moves into some of the P
is problem.
So now that I understandsituation, let's say it's lead
time and they say, oh, lead timeis we usually only have like a
day, right.
And then you can go intoproblem questions like well,
what happens if you don't getthat load covered in that lead
time?
Right?

(37:01):
You start to figure out whatare some of the problems, like
have you ever had a truck notshow up on time?
Have you ever had a carrierthat picked up on time but you
couldn't track them and giveaccurate updates to to the
receiver?
You know, but you couldn'ttrack them and give accurate
updates to the receiver.
You know.
If it's pricing related, youknow, have you guys ever run
into issues with rates spikingat certain times of the year and
it throws your budget off?
Right, these are problems.

(37:22):
Implications is what happens ifa driver doesn't show up on time
?
What happens if you end uppaying more than you had?
Right, you know what happened.
Or you know paying more thanyou had right, yep, um, you know
what happened or how you know.
Anyway, those are yourimplications.
Then your needs.
Pay off is where you youeventually get the the customer
to suggest the solution.
Right, like, yeah, you knowwhat, um, we really should try

(37:44):
to be doing x, y and zdifferently.
Like, yeah, it's a lot of timeslike that whole process doesn't
happen in one conversation.
Right, your first conversationwith, like, a customer it might
be the fifth time you trycalling them, it might be the
12th time, it might be the 20thtime, but you might just be
talking about situational things, right?
Hey, yeah, I got five minutes.
What's going on?

(38:04):
And you start learning aboutvolume of hey throughout the
year.
You know October to December istheir busiest time, right,
they're fairly dead during thesummer.
They might move one or twotruckloads a week in the summer,
but they're up to like 12 to 15a day when we get to those fall
months into the wintertime.
Right, you start to justunderstand what size you know.

(38:26):
You're starting to just qualifythem, right, do you?
You know?
Do you know what they're moving?

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Is there a need that could be solved?
Yeah, Exactly.
All qualifying means is did youuncover or did they tell you
about something that you couldhelp with?
That's all qualifying is rightExactly.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
And the more conversations you have, the more
trust, the more rapport, themore familiarity you start to
develop with these folks.
Then you get into more of thoseproblem and implication
questions.
You know I'm not saying thespin method is the way to do it.
It's just how I learned freightsales.
But any effective salesmethodology all kind of revolves
around the same thing of like.

(39:05):
You need to understand yourcustomer and be able to properly
offer some sort of value.
Most people don't get there.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, and most people don't get to the understand
part.
The solutions are easy.
When somebody is telling youwhat is wrong, the solutions
kind of come up by themselves.
Like you don't need to be agenius that when somebody says
my loads aren't picking up ontime to get to the need and then
to figure out, okay, well, thesolution is like all right.
Well, how quickly are youtendering your loads?

(39:34):
You send them out an hourbefore they need picked up two
days.
How much are you paying?
Do you think it's becauseyou're paying carriers that are
trying to like really run fromtheir last delivery to your
pickup in a short amount of time?
Like it really is kind of justa logical conclusion.
You don't have to put a ton ofthought in there.
But like, where I think mostpeople have the difficulty is

(39:55):
getting to the understand part,like getting somebody to talk to
them and it's because, again,like they're not one, I don't
think most people are presentwhen they do this, I don't think
they're making phone calls.
And again, like to takesomething from like the like
Buddhism side of things, likethey're not being mindful.
All mindful means is, whenyou're doing something, only do

(40:16):
that thing and pay attention tothat thing.
So, like, if you're making coldcalls while you're scrolling
through whatever social media orwhile you're reading emails,
when someone picks up the phone,you probably aren't present
there at all, so what is thelikelihood that that person is
going to actually connect andtalk to you?
It's about zero, right, if youaren't there.
And again, like, you don't needto have some presentation

(40:38):
planned, just a hey was tryingto catch up with you, have some
idea of what you're going to saybefore it, know who you're
calling and when the phone picksup, just do that thing.
I know it's hard in freightbrokerage, because there's
always 10 other things you needto do.
Everything's always a prioritybrokerage, because there's
always 10 other things you needto do, everything's always a
priority.

(41:02):
But, like, if you can practicejust that alone, I think you
will see far more of your callsturn into actual leads.
And if you get more leads, moreprospects, it eventually will
turn into more business.
Right, but instead of justfiguring out, oh, how do I close
more of the people I'm talkingto?
Well, if you haven't connectedwith any of the people you've
been talking to, you can't closeshit.
You're not going to close anyof them because, like you
haven't heard them, they haven'tconnected with you.
Neither one of you are payingattention.
When you're on the phone, theperson you called is busy doing

(41:26):
whatever they're doing.
They're barely paying attentionto you and you're not paying
attention to them.
How well of a conversation doyou think is going to go if two
people meet each other in anysetting and both are staring at
their phones while they'retrying to talk to each other?
How much communication andconnection do you think happens?
That's literally what'shappening.
You're staring at your computer, barely paying attention to the
phone, and the person youcalled is doing the same thing,
and you're wondering why youguys can't connect and do
business together.
It's because nobody's making aneffort to actually be present

(41:49):
in the conversation, which wasthe whole objective of making
the phone call in the firstplace.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like we could do an entire
episode on like active listening, right Like dude.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
There's a great book on it.
Dude, hold on.
Just on that point.
Somebody said this the otherday.
It made me laugh so hard.
There's a book.
I'll have to look it up.
It's really good.
The whole book is on listening.
And somebody was saying likethere were two TED talks One was
like how to convince people todo what you needed to do and the
other one was how to listenbetter.
And the person and the Ted talkon how to convince people had

(42:22):
like 10 million views and theone on how to listen better had
like a hundred thousand.
Like just nobody wants to learnhow to listen, they just want
to take control and make thething happen that they want to,
and like that's so true, I think.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
So there's a guy Andrew Bustamante is his name.
He's a podcaster now he's anex-CIA guy.
He was on Lex Friedman a fewyears back.
That's where I first heard ofthis guy.
But he's got, and other peoplelike him have excellent
discussions on like how to buildrapport and how to how to like

(42:59):
get a conversation to go acertain way, and one of the
things that he always preachesis like the two questions fall
by one validating statement andit's a form of like active
listening, Like you ask twoquestions, they answer and then
you basically give a validatingresponse after those two
questions.
That shows that you heard andunderstood what they were saying

(43:20):
to you, right, yeah, and thathelps build trust, because then
the person that you're talkingto feels like, yeah, he, he or
she actually like heard what Iwas saying, they understand me.
And oftentimes, like when abroker calls someone, it's just
like I got trucks in the area,like, all right, cool, you're
telling me what you have.
You don't care about what'sgoing on, what I need.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
That book is called the Lost Art of Listening by
Michael P Nichols PhD.
Well, the other book we'vetalked about over the years is
like Super Communicators, andthere's a really good story in
Super Communicators where theyshow this example where two
people are arguing and at eachother's throats, but they both
have the same goal.
They're just not listening toeach other.

(44:00):
And in the example it was aguns rights like Facebook group,
I think.
Basically it's a forum, right,and there's a group of people
arguing that nobody should haveguns and then there's guns
rights activists arguing thatpeople should have guns.
And when this professor got intothis, they basically took a few
of these people and broughtthem together, right, and they

(44:21):
showed the technique you weretalking about, about repeating
back what you heard and sayingwhat you think they meant right
To be able to literallyfacilitate communication.
And at the end of like 20minutes they were friends and
they both realized they had thesame goal.
It was safety.
Both of them wanted safercommunities with less shootings

(44:41):
and less harm, and the gunsrights activists wanted more gun
safety, more training and moreways to protect people.
The person who wanted to removeguns wanted the same goals.
They both just had differentsuggestions for how to get to
the goal.
And once they both listened toeach other, they both realized,
oh, we're on the same goals.
They both just had differentsuggestions for how to get to
the goal.
And once they both listened toeach other, they both realized,
oh, we're on the same team.
If we take some of your ideasand some of my ideas, we could

(45:04):
actually work together to makethe whole community safer.
And they're like for years.
We're just screaming at eachother, thinking this other
person is the worst person inthe world, doesn't care about
children, doesn't care about ourcommunity.
But at the end of the day, bothpeople literally had the same
objective.
They just weren't listening toeach other and didn't take the
time to get out of their own wayto just hear what they're

(45:25):
actually trying to achieve.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
So excellent point, and it's that leads me into this
.
Next thought here is that whenyou have these conversations and
we've talked about this stuffbefore like people are going to
remember how you made them feelin those conversations.
Right, and this is where, likeit's a numbers game and
repetitions and casting a widenet is going to come into play,

(45:49):
because there are some peoplethat you just won't, you're not
going to connect with.
It could be personality type,it could be age, it could be
just the tone of your voice, itcould be a lot of different
things, things that you'reinterested in, and then there's
people that you will click with,and, outside of just
understanding them and theirsituation and understanding them
, understanding what you canhelp solve for them, what can

(46:11):
matter even more sometimes is dothey feel like they are going
to enjoy working with you?
Do they feel like they cantrust you?
Do they feel like you're goingto get the job done for them?
And sometimes, like it doesn'tmatter if you know their
problems and you can solve theirproblems If they just don't
feel like, yeah, this guy feelslike a good fit to work with.

(46:31):
If they don't feel that it'snot going to go anywhere right,
unless you're like a last resort.
But that is where you knowthere's no one magic pill that
you can take and say the rightthings and ask the right
questions.
It is like you got to do thishundreds and hundreds and
hundreds of times with all thesedifferent people and companies
out there and you will find theones that you will click right
and sometimes you'll find theones that you click with well

(46:53):
and they just don't have a lotof business and that's fine
because you're going to have thelittle ones Right.
But when they, when they've gotthat load every couple of weeks
like dude, they're going tocall you because they want, they
trust you, they want to workwith you, and that's how you
build out your book of businessand you round it out diversified
.
You've got some of all about,you know, ego you think you're

(47:27):
right?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
it is.
Yeah, you're not listening.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
You ever get the ones that like, uh, straight up,
call you out.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
And they're like yeah , yeah, I know, I know you're,
you're going to make commissionon this, blah, blah, blah, and
it's like making theconversation so awkward here,
but anyway, you know it alsomade me think of this the other
day was like I've been playingtennis with older guys like 60
lives behind me in the morningsand he runs a painting
contracting business and that'slike probably 30, 40 years,
right.
But what I noticed as I wasthinking more about this too and

(47:55):
like again we could have like atwo hour conversation on some
of the other commonalities I'veseen recently.
But we're walking over to playtennis, right, and the guy is
coming over to pressure wash,like the clubhouse and like the
pool area, and he walks over andstarts talking to the guy.
You know pressure washing, itsays hello, but it wasn't just
the fact that he stopped to goover and talk to this guy.

(48:18):
Like I could tell he was sopresent when he was talking to
him that he genuinely cared whatthat guy had to say, how his
morning was going and what wasgoing on, right.
It wasn't the just wave to givesomeone the impression that you
care, like he was genuinelypresent while he's talking to
this guy and I've seen him dothis with a handful of people

(48:40):
over the past couple of weeksthat just happened to walk past,
say hello, where he willliterally stop what he's doing
and just be there and hear them,and I'm just like this is why
that guy runs a successfulbusiness, right.
This is why he has a lot ofclients and customers, because
when he is talking to somebody,it doesn't matter who they are,
what he's getting out of it, heis 100 percent paying attention

(49:02):
and listening and hearing whatthat person has to say and what
is important to them.
He didn't have an agenda, he'sjust genuinely cares about
connecting with people and likeI'm like every single time I see
him talk to somebody, he doesthis and I'm like it is second
nature and to your point, like Iknow some people are probably
better at that and it comes morenatural.

(49:23):
Some people have to work at it,but I think everybody can get to
that point because if youpractice it enough and you get
enough feedback which in ourworld is rejection right you
verbally get punched in the faceand someone hangs up on the
phone on you or yells at youlike well, I guess I didn't do
that one right.
But the best part is like yougot another chance, pick up the
phone and try again.
It is like the only profession.

(49:44):
You literally lose nothingexcept your ego gets a little
kick and if you realize that,like that is just temporary and
if you pick up and go at itagain, you can just keep trying
over and over and over and overand over and over again until
you actually get better at it.
But if you don't know whereyou're going and why you're
failing, that is very difficult.

(50:06):
That's why most people go likeI don't even know if I'm doing
it right or wrong, like ifpeople are talking to you and
opening up, you're gettingbetter at it.
If you're getting less of that,you're moving in the wrong
direction.
Right, and it's mostly for thethings we talked about.
It's like you have an agenda.
You're trying to convincesomebody of something.
They can feel that they knowyou don't care about what they
need.
That's why they don't want totalk to you anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, I'll wrap it up with this, I forget her name.
There's like some famous ladyshe had this quote or this like
mindset shift and it totallyapplies to sales.
It's change the go from why towhat.
So, basically when and I thinkabout this when I've done cold
calling sessions with with someof our brokers, after the call

(50:47):
sometimes they're like man, why,why did that guy react that way
?
Or you know, why did he yell atme?
Why did that?
Why did I get hung up on?
Instead of asking the, why askwhat, like what did I learn from
that way?
Or you know, why did he yell atme?
Why did that?
Why did I get hung up on?
Instead of asking the, why askwhat, like, what did I learn
from that conversation?
What can I, what can I takeaway from this and apply in my
next phone call?
Right, it takes a a potentiallya negative thought and turns it
into an opportunity.

(51:08):
And I think that I mean we'renot going to go into the
psychology of sales too deephere, but that little shift and
understand, like, like you justsaid, I have another chance,
right.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yes, so it's why you should.
I think everybody should have amirror above their telephone.
One you can see how you look toyourself, what kind of mood
you're in, what kind of energyyou're bringing and whether or
not you feel like you would wantto talk to somebody making that
facial expression.
And two, like you said, if youget off the phone and you feel
like why did that happen, theperson you should be looking at

(51:41):
to answer that question isn't totalk to that person to see why
they did it.
It's to look at yourself andask yourself what you could do
differently to maybe make thatnot happen again.
Because you can't controlanybody else.
You can control what you'regoing to do in your next
interaction with whoever thatperson is, and that is the only
way anybody gets better atanything.
It's not blaming anybody else,blaming the situation, blaming

(52:03):
the economy, blaming theenvironment, blaming your phone,
blaming your leads.
You can't change any of thosethings.
You can change how you approachthe next call and whether or
not you're going to listen alittle better and pay attention
to how you're trying to connectwith this person.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Absolutely man.
Good, good discussion today.
We got really covered a lot ofground there on sales, so
hopefully you guys can takesomething away from it.
Let us know what you think downin the comments.
Ask us, you know, any questionsrelated to it.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Final thoughts man, whether you believe you can or
believe you can't, you're right.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
And until next time go Bills.