Protecting Your Customer's Shipments | Episode 303

Today’s freight thieves are no longer just hijackers—they're hackers, posing as carriers by infiltrating email accounts and exploiting weak verification processes. In this episode, we break down a real theft case where criminals redirected a shipment using a hacked carrier profile, exposing the failure of standard vetting methods.

We reveal how these theft rings operate like corporations, and why software alone isn’t enough to stop them. Learn practical, low-cost strategies—like enhanced FMCSA checks, strategic phone calls, and trusting your gut—that can keep your freight safe and boost shipper trust.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome back Episode 303 of the Freight
360 podcast.
It's a lot of threes 303 from.
Freight 360.
Well, if you are brand new here, you've got hundreds of other
episodes to check out whenyou've got some time, whether
you're at the gym or driving orwhatever the case might be.
A lot of folks tell us they'dlike to listen to it on the way

(00:23):
to work, on the way back fromwork.
All that good stuff.
Check it out, share us withyour friends in the industry,
sign up for the newsletter onour website.
And, while you're at the website, you could check out the
Freight Broker Basics course ifyou're looking for an
educational option that goesreally, really deep, in depth on
everything from starting abrokerage, training your team,
how the back office operationswork, a lot on sales, a lot on

(00:45):
carry development fun stuff.
So check it out and leave usthat review.
And, ben, we kind of wanted tokick off today with just a
little teaser, if you want tocall it that, but we've got an
idea and a concept and wanted toknow what you guys think.
So if you want to just kind oflay that out and can have a

(01:07):
short discussion about it, thenwe're going to talk about some
ways to protect yourself andsome of the dangers that are out
there today.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, so what we've been kicking around.
The idea is there's clearlyplaces to report theft.
I would say one of them isprobably a Freik, a freight
guard report.
But the issue with freightguard reports is one I think
they've become too commonplaceand they're certainly abused by
brokers in some instances where,like you'll see freight guard

(01:35):
reports because a carrier misseda pickup, like this is part of
the industry, like that's not afreight guard situation, right.
And I think they've become thesource where, if you're really
trying to understand cargo theftrisk and bad actors, the
reports have become so commonthat, like it's really hard to

(01:55):
find, I think, what it wasintended for at this point.
And you know there's thewatchdog report that is managed
through highway that you canreport things through, which is
a very effective way to do thatright now.
But the other thing that youknow, you and I have learned you
, particularly because you're atthe TIA what do they call it
when you're meeting withCongress every fall.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
That's the policy forum, yep.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah.
So when you're meeting withliterally Congress and
legislators on what's going onin the industry, I remember last
year you were telling us islike the advice right from the
regulatory authorities, thegovernment, whatnot right now is
like, hey, if something getsstolen, you should have a good
relationship with localauthorities and that's where you

(02:38):
report it.
Well, you and I also havelearned and we've done some
interviews with Veririsk andsome of the companies that work
with insurance companies toreport this to law enforcement.
That doesn't always get to theplace it needs to as quick as it
does.
I mean, we're doing a lot ofwork with Genlogs on, you know,
trying to do deterrence, cargotheft prevention and things.

(02:58):
Time in this, the more we kindof realized it would be really
helpful if we could get peopleto report cargo theft instances
with detail in one place that wecould theoretically share it
with everyone else in theindustry.
We're working on this problemwith, because every time we can
see one of these instances, youand I have access to, I think,

(03:21):
some of the tools that reallyaren't even available yet to the
greater public, where we can goand actually find out what
occurred, what signals were ableto be there in the first place,
so that we can get better atbuilding the tools that are
going to prevent this, to stayone step ahead of the criminals.
And also like, if anyone hasn'tseen it yet, it's on our

(03:42):
LinkedIn page and we put it outon our network.
But Genlogs did a great video on.
It was called the anatomy of atheft ring.
Well, that first load startedwith an instance just like this.
Like somebody I work with, thatcargo was stolen.
I was able to get lots of dataand over the next couple of
weeks we were able to find thosedrivers and those specific

(04:02):
trucks showing up underdifferent motor carriers,
continuing to go and perpetratethefts.
So we know we've been able tofind them.
In hindsight, we've been ableto see patterns and where
they're going.
So what we want your thoughts onout there is, if we put
something on our website thatwas an easy to fill out form
where you could get thatinformation over to us, we could

(04:25):
distribute that to the folks weknow in the back end to dig
into more of these.
Try to help when we can helpand a lot of instances we'll be
honest with you.
Like once it's gone, it isreally hard to recover still at
this point.
But the more of this we can getto the people that we're
working with on the problem, thebetter our whole industry gets
at protecting itself.
So any of your thoughts outthere, please feel free to email

(04:47):
us, comment on YouTube orwherever.
If we put something on ourwebsite that allowed anyone out
there to report cargo theftsright, specifically thefts
instances that you've seen,would that be useful to you guys
if we could help facilitateconnecting folks with the right
people?
And again, at at first it's notgoing to be like we're going to

(05:10):
be able to help you recoverthis immediately, but we are
working with the people, so wecan you know, that's always step
one you need the data.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, um, and then you know we plug in with the
right folks to to createprocesses.
So let us know what you think.
Any ideas, suggestions,feedback?
We'd love to hear it.
Yep, um, sports all-star breakfor the uh, for baseball.
This week, the uh the all-stargame was tuesday night, which is

(05:38):
last night for us because we'rerecording on a wednesday.
I don't know if you saw it, butit was, uh, I think it was the
first time ever so it's tied six, six at the end of the game and
they did like a home run it,but it was.
I think it was the first timeever.
So it's tied 6-6 at the end ofthe game and they did like a
home run, derby, like tiebreaker, I think it was like the first
ever.
So yeah, I think National Leaguetook it by one, took the
tiebreaker.
Yeah, midseason here.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Oh, did you see?
I don't know if you streak.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I don't know if you saw, but like this was on
Pittsburgh radio, o'neal Cruzfrom the pirates hit, I think,
the longest home run in home runDerby 513 feet, left the park
and went through a window, Ithink like across the street or
something.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Nice, just crazy.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Good times, man Um anything else in yeah, wimbledon
wrapped up Sunday, and I'm nota tennis guy, but I know we
talked about it like a coupleweeks ago.
Yeah, number one and number two.
French Open.
Yannick Sinner played Alcarezand Sinner's the world number
one from Italy.
Alcarez is world number twofrom Spain, but what's cool is

(06:40):
like the top three for the pastalmost 20 years.
Right, we're Federer, nadal andDjokovic.
And Djokovic is still playing.
He's 38.
He made it to the semifinalsand almost made it to the finals
at 38.
He's got the most grand slams.
But Sinner and Alcaraz are,honestly, they just look so much
better than the rest of thefield that I think between both

(07:04):
of them they've won the last sixGrand Slam titles.
One of them has won, and theinteresting thing is going into
this one, sinner, who's numberone, has never beaten Alcarez in
a Grand Slam final, so he was0-5 the last time the two faced
each other in the title matchesof all the Grand Slams, and this

(07:26):
is the first one Sinner won.
Alcaraz beat him in the FrenchOpen about a month ago, which
was like one of the best tennismatches I've literally ever seen
.
By a long shot.
It literally went down to thewire as long as you could go
into a tiebreaker.
This one, alcaraz, he won thefirst set and I think, like 70%
of the people that won the firstset in Wimbledon finals ended

(07:46):
up going on to win.
No one had ever three-peated.
It Won three in a row.
Alcaraz won the last two.
If he would have won he wouldhave been the youngest guy to do
it and maybe the only guy towin three in a row Won the first
set and you could just see likeit looked like kind of nerves
got to him.
He didn't look like he washaving fun, he didn't smile, he
lost the next three sets and itwent to center.

(08:07):
It was still a really goodmatch to watch.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Is Wimbledon every year.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Got it.
I think all four are every year.
I don't know what order they'rein.
I think the US Open is next.
I think it was Australian Open,French Open, which is in Roland
Garros, then Wimbledon, thenthe US Open.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
I just looked it up it's the.
It's the third of the fourGrand Slam tennis events held
after the Australian Open andthe French Open and before the
US Open.
So oldest tournament in theworld, Interesting, Cool man,
Some news.
I feel like every week when ournewsletter goes out, there's
just like the word tariff.
I'm getting sick of like typingit but just ever changing

(08:48):
things on tariffs.
The one thing I thought wascool recently is that Dooner had
Sean Duffy on what the Truckand I haven't heard the whole
discussion, but I kind of gotlike the breakdown of like
implementation of AI to try andhelp tighten up security for the
FMCSA and DOT.

(09:08):
So I thought that was justreally cool that he was able to
get the secretary oftransportation on his show too.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
So it was a good interview.
I was higher man.
Lofty goals For sure.
I listened to the whole and Ithought it was pretty good.
Definitely some cool stuff inthere.
I mean I that is the one forsure thing I think I'm
optimistic about with justgovernment currently is they are
more open to, I think, usinglike this generation or this

(09:38):
time frames technology to solvesome of these things.
It's been so long since any ofthese government systems have
upgraded their technology.
I've heard interviews where,like I think it was Howard
Lutnick this was a couple ofmonths ago talking about he's
like, like some of these systems, like they're literally held
over from like the eighties insome cases, like he's like
they're using mainframes andthings that are literally 40

(09:59):
years old.
They've never updated thesoftware because no one ever
wants to spend the money, no oneever wants to allocate the
budget to that, so they justnever get upgraded.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
It's such a big beast Like, even if you look at a
section of it, like theDepartment of Defense.
So, like myself, intransportation, for example,
Right.
So I remember I've been in themilitary for 20 years now and I
remember when I first joined 20years ago, the system that's
used to track transportation,air transportation, specifically

(10:28):
the movement of cargo in theair.
It is the same system that'sbeing used today, 20 years later
.
It was outdated and antiquatedthen and it is even worse now.
You have to go to a school fortwo weeks to learn how to use it
.
That is how bad and outdated itis.
That is how bad and outdated itis.
Further, if you want to get morespecific to freight brokering
policy form, I'm excited it'scoming up in just under two

(10:50):
months.
I'll be going again this year.
Two years ago we left there andthey're like, yeah, we're going
to implement this new, you know, multi-factor authentication
and blah, blah, blah, for youknow, getting motor carrier
authorities and all this, andit's like nothing's really
changed, like seriously, like itis, and they always just say

(11:14):
like we don't have enough moneyand we don't have the manpower,
and you know it's like, what arewe doing here?
So it is, I just hope there'ssome improvement, because you
think about, like how businessesoperate and businesses like if
they don't stay ahead with theirtechnology, they fall behind.
Right, I think that thedifferences with the federal
government competition we are.

(11:37):
It's the one and only USgovernment.
You know what I mean.
So it's kind of like that yeah,they don't have competition and
at least you know internallyWe'll see what happens.
Also, like other news unrelatedto that yeah, they don't have
competition and, um, at leastyou know internally we'll see
what happens.
Also, like other news unrelatedto that, I had someone actually
asked me over 4th of July, youknow, you get like a lot of
family comes in town and whatnot, and they're like how's a how's
tariffs impacting you guys infreight?
And I was like, honestly, it'sbeen like, depending on what you

(11:59):
do, some people it's had zeroimpact, some people it's had a
ton of impact, like the, the,the peaks and valleys of freight
coming in from imports.
Right, because people are likeget it all in before tariffs go
in.
All right, now pause.
Now tariffs are frozen forthree months.
Bring more in.
All right, pause.
Like it's just it's all over theplace.

(12:20):
Like we got a guy in ourcompany right now that he does
bananas and like bananas growone.
You know they don't.
You can't grow them year roundin the United States.
Right, like they're going toget imported from South America
and and Central America.
And it's like with tariffs.
You think about the low priceof bananas and whenever you have

(12:42):
a low price commodity, liketransportation costs becomes a
larger slice of the overall costof the product.
Then you slap a tariff on itand it's like it gets wild.
So we saw, we saw literallylike boom, and then just bust,
like a month of like tons ofimports and then just nothing

(13:02):
for a month and then anotherboom, and then you know a week
of like we don't know.
So it it really is liketrickling down and um, it was
actually funny like there.
But I don't know if you saw theclip.
It was about bananas actuallyon on uh, and I think it was
like a senate hearing orsomething like that.
And they were, they were tryingto defend, like you know, you
got to do, american made,american made options for

(13:25):
everything.
And the woman's like so bananais like.
And the guy's like, yeah, youjust grow them in america.
And she's like you can't growthem in america, like you need
the climate, like yes, it wasalmost.
Yeah, there are certain thingsthat, like, you can produce in
the United States, but they'relike when it comes to produce

(13:46):
Right, or if it comes to thingsthat we consume like food
products in general, whetherit's livestock, vegetables,
things like that.
There are areas of the worldwhere the cultivating and the
agriculture and the growing andall that allows for that to
happen, and it's not the same.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Two really good rabbit holes for if anyone is
interested to go down related tosupply chain is if you look up
and research the history ofbananas and shipping, it had a
huge impact on how our supplychain functioned.
I haven't done this in a fewyears, but Dole Banana was my
customer when I was at TQL.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
They were in the same building and, if I remember,
yeah, dole's the customer I wasjust referring to as well.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, If you look into the company that became, I
think, dole, but I can't, Idon't remember the exact
specifics, but like we used toship bananas right around the
world but like they didn't havecontainers and they would spoil
and, to your point, they onlycome from a certain place, so
they were like instrumental, ifI remember, in like how

(14:54):
containers were actuallydeveloped in the first place
because they couldn't get themaround the country or around the
world fast enough.
And two, I think they were likeone of the first fruits where
they were figuring out how topick them so much sooner and
treat them with something sothey didn't ripen that quickly
so you could get them far away,because they used to be a huge
luxury item back before this.

(15:14):
Like you didn't eat bananasunless you were super wealthy
because they were just too hardto get anywhere other than where
they were grown.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
There's a really good video that I saw recently.
There's a YouTube channelcalled Wendover Productions.
I don't know if you've everheard of it.
This guy does like 20 to 30minute longer form videos on a
lot of it's on the logistics ofwhatever right, and he has one

(15:41):
called the Logistics of Fruitthat came out earlier this
summer and it was all about ittalks through dull bananas, the
advent of the, the, the reeferuh container unit and,
legitimately, how our supplychain imports and routes and
containers and a lot of thatstuff was was created because of
the demand and the logisticsbehind getting fruit imported.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
so and here's the other crazy thing I think
bananas too.
They started breeding them andnow there's like one type of
banana that basically everyoneeats, even though there's lots
of different types of bananas,mostly for the shipping reason.
They were more stable, theycould transit better, they were
more durable.
But now that almost all thebananas are of one genome or

(16:23):
breed or whatever that means,and like that industry I don't
know that the definitions arethe exact words, but now they're
super susceptible to diseasebecause there's no biodiversity
in bananas and that's causingissues in the supply of bananas
as well, because when, like, adisease hits a field or whatever
, when there's not diversity, ittends to go very quickly

(16:43):
through it and I have a reallyhard time stopping it.
Another crazy tangent on thesame thing that I was reading
recently is if you look into thesupply of opium, it's the same
thing, because opium only reallygrows in Afghanistan.
At the supply you need to feedthe whole pharmaceutical
industry and there's reallyinteresting ties to back to the

(17:05):
military into the 80s as to whypossibly Reagan and them had
troops guarding opium fields.
Because lots of the largecorporations that supplied
legitimate medications andhospitals paying medications
where opium is used, it onlycomes from one place.
You can't just, to your point,grow that in the United States
or just start growing itsomewhere else.
And there's lots of reallyinteresting supply chain aspects

(17:27):
.
The quantity that has grownonly comes from one place.
They literally couldn't get itfrom anywhere else.
And how?
That's all intertwined withboth government intervention,
military intervention, whereit's supplied, and how and what.
Because everyone just thinksillicit drugs like heroin.
What?
Because everyone just thinksillicit drugs like heroin.
But really that's also the sameraw material that goes into

(17:48):
pain medications that are usedall over the world legitimately
every day yep, wow, does it thepoppy plant?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
does that sound?
right yeah, um, all right.
So today we're going to talkabout uh, I mean, we kind of
talked about stolen cargoearlier with our our concept
that we're talking about.
So I want to, I want to talkthrough a scenario that we dealt
with somewhat recently and howit's playing out.

(18:13):
I'll try to keep it is.
I'll keep names and companiesout, just for for protective
reasons.
But in a nutshell, we had aload, we contracted a carrier on
and we vetted the carrierproperly through highway and

(18:34):
everything checked out.
We create the BOL with thecarrier's name on it and truck
shows up, gets loaded and thefreight goes missing.
And then we contact the carrierand the carrier's like that
wasn't us.
We had our email hacked.
We don't know who that was.
So basically, someone hacked acarrier's email account, had

(18:57):
access to their highway portal,everything right, because
multi-factor authentication Onceyou're in someone's email, yeah
, they can get that six-digitcode, verify that.
It's now when they log in, blah, blah, blah and load gets
stolen.
So everyone's doing the fingerpointing like who's at fault.
Who's at fault?
The shipper is basicallytelling us and the shipper's a
freight forwarder, right, sothey have a customer right, who

(19:19):
they're like you know.
They like you know they've gotto answer to now.
So freight forwarder says to us, like it's your fault, um, it's
you guys, didn't you know youguys didn't properly do your due
diligence and buy this carrier.
We're like, yes, we did.
Like we ran them through all thescreening processes, we created
the bol for you with the nameof the carrier on there.
They show up to your facility,someone else shows up to your

(19:41):
facility and you guys load thewrong truck and send them on
their way.
So like we're trying to find away to like meet in the middle
with them because we value theirrelationship with the customer,
but like they're taking zeroresponsibility for loading a
truck that we didn't send inthere and that we, we literally
said here's the vol, here's thetrucking company that's going to
show up and should get loaded,and if they don't, if a
different truck shows up, youdon't load them.

(20:02):
So, not to get too in the weedson it, but it came down to like
you know, then we're trying to,we're like requesting, you know
, the footage from the CCTV atthe facility, photos, whatever,
to go to law enforcement aboutit as soon as possible to try
and track down who got loaded.
We can try to run it throughgen logs, all this stuff, and
then like the shippers likedelayed in getting us the

(20:23):
footage and the pictures andstuff like that documentation.
So then we asked them, like youknow, could it be someone an
inside job, maybe somebody atyour company that you know?

Speaker 2 (20:33):
What was the commodity?
Can you share what thecommodity was?

Speaker 1 (20:37):
I don't even remember what the commodity was Freight
forwarder picture like retailgoods or something like I I
don't know 100, but um, it's notlike it was a load of like
tonic water.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, we're talking likesomething that got imported that
they can clearly uh resell,resell, black market or whatever

(20:58):
.
So, yeah, just uh wild.
So we're trying, we're tryingto go through all that like the
carrier's insurance has zeroplay in this because they didn't
haul the load.
You know what I mean.
So it gets all messy, but yeah,anyway, the big concept here is
that, like, one system itselfis not going to solve all of

(21:20):
your problems.
Right, and this is aconversation you and I had a
little bit off air beforehand.
Like, carrier vetting softwareis great.
I think it's a must have.
It's a necessary, but withoutprocesses on top of all this and
ways that you use these systems.
It really doesn't matter, right?
Like you and I had a discussionrecently about.

(21:41):
You know, yeah, we can vet acarrier all we want, through
highway or whatever, but if yoursystem and your processes
within your TMS don't hold yourbrokers to that level of vetting
and they just end up, you know,you go on highway, carrier
meets your criteria, that theemail address is verified, et
cetera but then your system andprocesses on the TMS side don't

(22:05):
tie in 100% and then they couldjust send the rate con to some
Gmail account.
Well then, you vetted for noreason, right?
The whole point here is thatprocesses need to augment the
software and the tools that youhave in place.
You can't just have just a tooland expect it to do the tools
that you have in place.
You can't just have, um, just atool and expect it to do the
job for you.
There still is a process driven.

(22:27):
You know portion of this thatwithout both of them, you're
never gonna you're never gonnabe able to protect yourself.
100, like we said, people'semails get hacked.
Um, you know you get bad actorsout there.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
I mean this, this is this is the stuff that we deal
with and these are big ticketitem problems to have.

(23:00):
We're talking like loss ofalways.
Kind of think of these thingsin like analogies in my head of
like even a business that you'retrying to secure, like a
physical business, from somebodyphysically trying to steal
something, right, like there wasalways a cat and mouse game
between thieves and security.
Right Like a bank started justby having a safe in there.
Well then robbers came in withguns and then went to the guy

(23:21):
with the combination and wereable to get into the safe, right
.
So then they're like okay, well, now we're going to lock down
the building, we're going to putcodes on the safe so they can
only be opened at certain times.
Well then criminals figured outto go in that time window and
find a way to get through that.
Then you layer on securitycameras, then you layer on
security guards.
Then banks ultimately juststarted having less cash to

(23:43):
reduce that risk.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
They put the button under the desk, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
I mean, and I used to work in a bank and it's funny
because, like in my head, that'swhy I picture it the bank I
started in I happened to work inthe original bank branch that
was starting like 1851 inPittsburgh at Dollar Bank.
So we could go down into thebasement and the original safe
was still there with, like youcould see the lock boxes for,
like, andrew Carnegie's name wasstill on it, like they look
like it looks like a tomb, likeyou see it in a mausoleum, but

(24:11):
that's how big these vaults werefor individual like money is,
bring bags of cash in there,right, and you can see, like
literally walking around, howthis building has changed over
150 years to what they do nowand how they avert this risk.
So it's like this isn'tanything new.
Anytime there's somethingvaluable, people try to take it.
People try to come up with newways to prevent that thing from

(24:32):
being taken right.
One solution has almost neverbeen sufficient to protect
yourself from theft and even ifyou look at your bank accounts
and how you log into onlinebanking I remember when that
came out, banks didn't even wantto release it because they knew
there were going to bevulnerabilities.
Then you have multi-factorauthentication, then those get
hacked, like there's always thecat and mouse game, and that's

(24:53):
really no different in ourindustry, especially as we're
moving into more technology.
The more technology, the moreautomation, the more
vulnerability there is.
It's not just it makeseveryone's life easier, it also
does create little holes andwindows that can be exploited
for theft.
Right and like email is areally big one that I think most
people are aware of.
So what we're going to do istalk through what are some best

(25:17):
practices and things, and then Ithink later we're going to
start doing some more content onwhat and how we're able to like
go through individual instancesand show what happened after
the fact, so you can see exactlywhere these flags are when
you're looking for them.
But I guess my first questionto you is like, in hindsight

(25:37):
right, what are things that youdid do and what are things that
you wish could have been donebetter?

Speaker 1 (25:43):
so it's.
It's interesting because youhad mike fullman last week
talking quick scope and we evenone of the things we talked
about internally we're like, youknow, would quick scope have
done anything?
And it's like yes, but only ifthe shipper, you know, would
have.
There's a process in place onthe shipper side that still,

(26:04):
like we could have said like,hey, carrier, we're going to
send you this link and you needto execute the quick scope on
this load which will you'll takea picture of your truck, it'll
verify your MC number, blah,blah, blah.
That could have prevented thecarrier from wanting to do it.
That could have prevented thecarrier from wanting to do it.
But if this carrier or thisfraudster clearly had a

(26:25):
vulnerability in mind and theyprobably knew that this shipper
doesn't verify who's gettingloaded, they didn't say, yeah,
oh, you got the load going towherever, or I go to, you know,
dock three.
A lot of it's a process thing.
So, like we you know we createdthe BOL, gave it to the shipper
and basically said like, hey,here's the truck that I
contracted here, so you need toload, we've already vetted and

(26:48):
verified them, could have askedthe driver to take pictures.
You know, even without quickscope, but it still doesn't
matter if the shipper is notgoing to do their part.
So I think the hindsight isprocesses in place with a
customer and, like Mike who hehad on last week, like he is so
big on the relationship piecewith the customer and the

(27:10):
shipper, yes, and I think thatwhen a customer gets dinged once
with a double brokered loadthat they end up paying twice on
, or stolen cargo or whateverthe case might be right, they
will remember that like a scar.
And if you can go into aconversation and build a
solution that involvesprotection of their freight and

(27:32):
essentially their customerrelationships, for that matter,
because they want to get theirproduct delivered to their end
user or customer, and if you cancreate that relationship where,
hey, I am not just going tosling trucks for you, I will
become an extension of yourtransportation department, of
your supply chain, and I willhelp you guys procedurally to

(27:52):
make sure that between what I'mdoing and how that's tying in
with what you guys are doing atyour shipping department, we can
make sure we've got the rightperson in the right place at the
right time with the rightequipment.
And so that's like I think Iwant to pause there for a second
.
Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
So, and Mike and I talked about this and I don't
even know if this was on theepisode because I spent like an
hour and a half after ourepisode just talking through
things with him on solutions andthis right, and it's exactly
what you said, right?
So it's like as brokers or 3PLsfeel, or have the call it false
belief that one tool willprotect them just by using that

(28:30):
right.
I think shippers have a falsebelief that by using a broker,
they're not responsible fordoing anything or protecting
their freight at all.
And I've had shippers that havetold me this like, hey, we use
brokers so that if it getsstolen, like that's just your
issue.
And I've explained to them.
I'm like, well, if you actuallykind of read and understand how

(28:54):
regulations in our industryworks, like we're actually not
responsible, you're responsiblefor making sure you load the
truck that we send.
And if you're not going to workwith your loading staff to put
in some procedures to make surethey're verifying which truck
they're putting your cargo in,at the end of the day, like we
can't be sure that they're notgoing to load somebody that

(29:17):
isn't who we sent, right?
Because even if you go to likean extreme scenario where it's
like hey say, I book alegitimate truck and this is
like 70 years ago and somebodyliterally sticks the driver up
with a gun, takes his truck,shows up at your shipper with
his truck to steal the cargo.
Like there are always ed casesthat no matter what you do, you

(29:37):
can't be sure that the truck yousent is the one getting loaded
unless the people loading it arealso verifying.
That information, so like itneeds to be a partnership, and
you and I have talked to somevery large shippers that have
said this is one of theirbiggest issues is like it's
really hard to hire and trainpeople to do that job for long
periods of time and for thatmoney to care enough to make

(29:59):
sure this is being done right100% of the time.
It's a really hard thing for acompany to do and I think,
rather than trying to solve thator work on that more, they just
feel like they can throw theirhands up and blame someone else
and like that's not true.
But this is a huge opportunityfor anyone out there wondering
how to get new business, justlike you said, if you're
approaching, calling a prospectand talking to a shipper about

(30:21):
doing business and you're justtalking about sending trucks and
rates in, you sound just likeeverybody else.
But if you ask them some verydirect questions like hey, have
you guys ever run into instanceof cargo theft, anything been
stolen in the past year or pastfew weeks?
Hey, what are your proceduresat loading?
How do you coordinate and workwith your brokers to make sure
you're protected?
And if all the answers to thoseare just uncomfortable silence,

(30:43):
you hit a pain point and youfound an opportunity for you to
work with that shipper that allthe rest of their providers
aren't addressing.
It is a major vulnerability andnow you're a logistics
consultant or, to your point,becoming an extension of their
operations, and it is a truepartnership that will tend to
last much longer than getting acustomer because you got a cheap

(31:05):
truck today and they happen toneed a load moved.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, this is one of the things, looking back at this
situation, that we ran into theCarmack Amendment.
This is part of the 1906.
What was the InterstateCommerce Act?
Liability falls on the motorcarrier right, not the broker,
as long as the broker is notacting as a carrier.

(31:29):
That's why we, you know not togo on a tangent, but that's why
you don't want to sign anagreement that lists you as a
carrier.
You don't want to direct thecarrier that you're contracting,
you know.
You don't want to force them todo things which could give you
you don't want to create.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
You don't want to create the impression or view at
any point in time that you areoperating like a carrier or are
a carrier, because there'sdifferent liabilities for a
motor carrier than there are afreight broker?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yep, for sure, so yeah, the whole big point here,
though, is that and it it kindof relates to what you just said
is like things have evolvedover time, Like we would not
those questions that you justused, like, for example, when
you're prospecting we probablywould have never used those
questions five years ago.
Right, like it goes back to yourwhole thing with the bank Right

(32:17):
, like first it was just youknow, all right, we'll have, you
know, a code on the safe andthen we'll only have certain
times and then we'll add guardsand cameras and it's like this
stuff is evolving and thesequestions for prospecting will
continue to be evolving, but goahead.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I was going to say.
The thing, too, is like, notonly were they not there, but
like the crime rings are, theyoperate like companies and I
want everybody to kind ofunderstand this.
Like, I've talked to a fewthieves.
Actually, when you and I weretogether up North, when you were
in town and there was a loadstolen I was working on, I was
on the phone with the driver andthe dispatcher that

(32:54):
legitimately told me yeah, weare holding your cargo hostage,
this is what we do.
And they were telling me howtheir company that I guess you
would it's a crime ring, butlike they operate like a
legitimate company and they'relike I have a boss and my boss
has a boss and this guy worksfor me.
There's only certain things wecan do before we get in trouble.

(33:15):
So, like, this is not just acouple.
People Like these are verycoordinated, they are very tech
savvy and they are operating atthe limits of what technology
can do and they are very good atthis.
This is their job is to stealcargo all day.
So they're not unsophisticatedthieves like they were to your

(33:38):
point five and ten years agowhere, like, somebody steals a
truck because, like they'rewatching a shipper and they
notice they don't check PO sothey just send a guy in to grab
a load like that got solved, andthen they got better at it.
And then there was so muchmoney in shipping during COVID
that, like these companies,these thieves are making tens of
millions of dollars a weekstealing cargo.
Now, when you've got that muchmoney incentivizing people to

(34:01):
steal things, like they getbetter at it to make sure they
can keep making that money Likethese aren't, you know, the
average person just trying tosteal a truckload here and there
.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, I think this whole thing makes me think about
hiring and a lot of timespeople are so, so quick to hire
and just throw someone out tothe wolves and like I'm just
going to get a bunch of salesguys.
The importance of, like, justtraining and, you know, making
sure that before you hand thereins off to somebody to fully

(34:30):
be autonomous with what they do,you've got to make sure that
you're 100 percent control them.
So, like we've got we've got avery small handful of folks
within our company that we justpretty much give free reign to
because they've earned thattrust over years, right, whereas
anybody that's new or like ouraverage user, we've got
processes in place that preventthem from making mistakes, right

(34:53):
, and there's there's pros andcons to however you look at it.
Like, if, uh, if we hand thereins to somebody, the pros are
it just makes the process quick,right, and it's less work for
us.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
And cheaper.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
And cheaper.
The risk is well, now we'releaving the door open for
potential human error.
The other side is you putrestrictions in place, you use
tools, you limit permissions andrequire someone at corporate to
approve something.
The pro is much addedprotection, right.
The con is it can slow yourprocess down potentially and it

(35:28):
adds you know it adds more work.
So there's a, there's a balanceand a happy medium to it that
you constantly have to try andseek where that is.
And uh, I'm all about like ifpeople be like, oh, you know,
we'll get to.
You know, like if we're dealingwith like carrier vetting, for
example, like trying to figureout our rules.
I remember when we firstimplemented highway and people
like we'll get there, I'm like Idon't think you're ever there.

(35:50):
I think you're always refining,like you'll get to a good place
.
But you always have to have amentality of refining, improving
, refining, improving.
Uh, like one of the uh in the inthe army we have uh troop
leading procedures, which islike, you know, leadership, um
steps of leadership and how youexecute a plan and the final
step is supervise and refine.

(36:11):
Like always, always refine it,because as variables change, as
the environment around youchanges your plan and how you
execute that plan should bechanging as well, otherwise your
plan is outdated.
So as we look at the way thatthese organized crime rings are
adapting to you know it's it'slike a game of uh like chess,
right, like we do this and thenthey do this, and then we do

(36:33):
this and then they do this.
You have to keep doing that,otherwise checkmate and you're
done and they're gonna.
You're gonna steal yourcustomers cargo.
You're gonna steal yourcustomer's cargo.
You're going to lose yourcustomer, you're going to lose
your business.
It's wild man.
It's a wild, wild industry outthere right now.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
One is, I would say, for anybody running a brokerage
to look into cargo theftpolicies.
I don't think they always makesense.
They're definitely not supercheap.
However, if you have a customerthat ships some higher value
stuff, has had enough thefts andyou've already talked with them
about locking down POs andthey're doing everything they
can right, but they're stillseeing this occasionally Like,

(37:14):
then, I think if that customeris valuable enough to you, you
would want to look into a cargotheft policy.
Because if you're shipping$200,000 loads and that customer
owes you 200 grand at any giventime and one stolen, that
creates a massive financialissue to paying the carriers,
the risk filing on your bond,them not paying you and again,

(37:37):
all of these things.
The details matter.
What does your contract saywith that shipper.
But there are for sure, I think, legitimate reasons to use a
policy like this, like a tlx.
We have one of these policies.
We've had to use it once ortwice.
It has been able to be a hugesaver and actually was cheaper
having it than not having it.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Um, do you know who the carrier is?
That does your policy.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yeah, I think it's Pacific.
I can send you their contact.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Like cargo theft insurance policies got really
big with like maritime shippingwhen piracy became big.
Yes, so this is nothing new,but the application to it's
called dishonest acts policy, ifI recall.
Dishonest acts of third parties.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, and Pacific Financial.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
We use Avalon risk and we've got like a I don't
know I don't even know the nameof the policy but like we've got
this like ridiculous policythat can cover a lot of stuff
like that.
But here's what I will cautionyou on is that you know they've
told us if you're going to everfile a claim on this, you know,

(38:45):
and this is like again, likethis is if we're not really at
fault but our policy will stillcover because we've decided to
purchase that policy.
It's kind of like your your getout of jail free car, like the.
It's like that.
You know one.
You want to use it the one timeyou need to, not every time
that you could, because your uhpremium rates will go through

(39:07):
the roof so we had actually was.
I was, uh in nashville last weekvisiting our corporate office
and sitting down with my boss,who's the owner of the company,
and we're talking aboutinsurance and he had a
conversation with our one of ourinsurance reps and there's a
discussion going around nowamongst insurance companies
where, like you think about apolicy that covers, you know, a

(39:29):
hundred thousand dollars perincident, right, yep, um,
there's discussion now as of youknow, premiums, because
insurance companies, with allthe stuff happening and the
claims on things, now likethey're starting to get like
antsy and nervous.
Like there's discussions aboutpremiums going up and coverages
instead of a hundred thousanddollars per incident, they might

(39:50):
cap you at a hundred thousanddollars per year.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Like that's what ours was.
Yeah, our theft is a hundredgrand on the year.
On the year, okay, yeah, solike it's not a hundred thousand
, per instance.
No-transcript.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, per the term of the policy.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
And it makes sense.
But again, these are justthings for, I think, people to
look into.
Again, you really want tounderstand what the risk is.
Think about like, first, youshould be doing everything else
that you can.
That is free, right, and usethe term free loosely, but like
we'll call it easily or moreeasily accessible.
The other are like procedures,because I still do believe that,

(40:33):
like, one of the best ways tonot be in a situation is
deterrence.
Right, if you can give acriminal all the reason in the
world to find an easier target,that's a pretty good deterrent.
And one of the things that evenworking backwards through things
that have already been stolen Ihave not seen where doing this

(40:53):
has not gotten me to the rightanswer almost immediately.
If you go to the FMCSA namechange and that's in carrier 411
, you can find when and wherethose numbers and emails were
changed and you just call theoldest phone number.
Like that immediately gets methe answer almost every time.
Like I'll call the older phonenumber and they're like yeah, I
sold my company six weeks ago.

(41:14):
Or like, in one instance, theguy's like yeah, don't book a
truck with them.
They stole all my logins.
I'm trying to report it, but ithasn't gotten out yet, right?
You call the older number first, you usually will, and if it's
legit they'll be like oh yeah,I'm not the dispatcher.
Call Cindy, and then they'llgive you the other phone number.
So, like to me, that is one ofthe easiest free steps to making

(41:36):
sure you're talking to theright company and going hey, I
just want to make sure we bookthe load with the right company.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Is that you?
Because if it was changed,calling the older one still gets
you to the previous owner.
Does the FMCSA's website tell?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
you the changes on it or is that only if you couldn't
find it on the FMCSA's website?
But I had heard from somebodythat I think maybe Freight
Validate or a few othercompanies are now trying to
portal, highway, you'll get.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
You'll get, like I've seen it on my carrier portal,
where literally it'll say rightin their system, like it was
changed, here's what happened,here's the old, here's the new.
And it'll like tell you thefield, like the name, first name
, last name, phone number, emailaddress, like old, new, you
know date and timestamp of whenit happened.
So so that is a really good one, I think it's gotta be on the

(42:22):
FMCSA website somewhere in there, but it's just never making it
easy to access.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
So I know it's available through their APIs,
but like I couldn't find exactlywhere to find that.
But, like again, even if youhave like care for one or any of
those, there is a section thatsays FMCSA contact info change.
I always look at when it waschanged and try to reach out the
old one and look for thingsthat look weird there, because
that's usually like one of thefirst things.
I think literally doing thisover the phone is to me, one of
the things that people have doneless as people have gotten more

(42:53):
used to email and I just thinkhonestly, like more younger
people are used to being ontheir phones and texting and
talking via typing instead ofgetting on the phone.
They avoid being on the phone.
But, like, human beings are thebest lie detector your

(43:16):
intuition, your gut this doesn'tfeel right is probably your
best first red flag.
And then I always look at itlike this is like one red flag
does not mean no, it just meansdig a little deeper.
Did you find more red flags?
Dig a little deeper.
Did you find more red flags?
Dig a little deeper.
Did you find three or four redflags?
Okay, maybe now you want toconsider just moving to another
option, right and again, likethat could be the contact info.
That could be the person youspoke to.

(43:38):
That could be oh, their truckslisted and either gen logs or
whatever your system is shows oh, I'm booking a reefer, but
they've only seen dry vans andthey only have dry vans listed
on the FMCSA.
Like why is this not adding up?
It doesn't mean it can't betrue, but it makes you want to
ask a few more questions, likeyou just keep digging to see if

(43:59):
you keep finding more red flags,as I feel like the way you
conceptualize this process.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
And the whole thing thing too, is like there's a I
think there's a mentality aroundit, like, like you, like you
said, one red flag doesn't meanno, like I always liked the
concept of like when we're whenwe're verifying we're verifying
to try and approve, notverifying to try and you know,
deny somebody right.
Yes, that's really cause you.
You get people there's athere's a really good like

(44:24):
opinion piece, I think, onfreight waves about like, if
everything's fraud, nothing isfraud.
I don't know if you saw thatrecently, last week or whenever
it was, but basically, like, ifwe have the mentality that
everything out there is fraudand we just normalize it, then
we then really like nothing,nothing's fraud.
Then if we're just normaleverything, this is just what we
live in now, it like no.
You get people who have amentality of like every carrier

(44:45):
is bad, right, and it's like no,like that's not the case, like
that's where you know thishappened.
If this first and I don't meanto go on a tangent, but this
first started like in 2022 andwe started cracking down on
double brokers and we'd say like, oh, if you just got, if you
have no inspections, we're nevergoing to load you.
And it's like, well, now yougot the actual good owner

(45:06):
operator who you can just kindof coach through and make sure
that we're verifying them right,like he's probably a great
option for you Probably a betteroption.
These guys got like screwed overbecause everyone's like no
inspection history, no load, andyou know, unfortunately, like
they kind of are collateraldamage to like the knee jerk
reaction that a lot of folks had.

(45:28):
So I think it's vigilance, youknow, was it trust, but verify
right, like, come on, who's thepresident that said that?

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Theodore Roosevelt, I think, and he was also the one,
and I think he's also the one,that said walk softly and carry
a big stick.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
I think both those quotes say yeah.
I think he's also in said walksoftly and carry a big stick.
I think both those quotes same.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, trust, but verify is let's see.
All right, maybe really yeah,ronald Reagan.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
In the context of arms control negotiations with
the Soviets during the Cold War.
Yeah, he didn't make that up,but he kind of like made it
famous, so it's actually aRussian proverb, that's ironic
it's probably why he used itright.
So, yeah, um, but yeah it'sanyway.
Um, I think vigilance will go along way and, um, you know, I

(46:15):
don't want to like bash on anyindividual, like fraud tool out
there, because they're all veryuseful and they've gotten us
very far.
The whole thing is like theirjob is to be excellent at what
their product does, not at therest of the process.
They're there to be an enablerof you for safe practices and

(46:35):
best practices as a freightbroker.
But it's still up to you, withthat human intuition, like you
said, like we're the best liedetectors.
Like if you get on the phoneand call a sound or vibe right
or the the name doesn't matchthe accent right, like um, or
like the person you know, you,just you get that intuition
where, like, they won't talk toyou I've seen this one where

(46:58):
I've seen like red flags oncares where I vetted them and
I'm like I've called, they won'tanswer the phone and then they
emailing going we can't speak toyou over the phone.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
I'm like that is a red flag, right, like if you are
running a dispatch business orworking for a trucking company
and you are unable to speak onthe phone.
Like to me that's probably ared flag, right, like if you're
not willing to talk to me.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Like this happened last week.
So a guy claims to be adispatcher.
He's you know, says he's inwhatever location in the States.
Go to call the phone number andyou know he keeps emailing,
like hey, what's going on?
And then go to call him andlike dude, the number's

(47:41):
disconnected.
And he's like he's like oh yeah, sorry, my VPN's down.
Are you on WhatsApp?
And it's like dude, you're noteven in the States.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Like what are we doing here?
Not even exactly.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
So yeah, like if someone's first, if their first
communication with me is a lie,that's usually like we're just
going to, we're going to endright there, like so yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Because, to your point and we've talked about
this for years like I think oneof the best things you could do
when you're on the phone is totell them like hey, you know, we
worked with a shipper for along time.
They're going to verify thepickup number.
We're going to send your drivera link for quick scope.
That pickup number is going tobe verified but won't be

(48:25):
released until his truck and hisimage shows up there.
Shippers notified exactly whichMC.
Hey, you know, mr Dispatcher,what colors his truck.
I always let them know what themake and model is, cause it
just makes it a little easierfor the driver.
Nine times out of 10, if theywant to steal something, they're
probably not going to gothrough the effort because they
don't want to get caught either.
And like that was the otherthing that I picked up when that
instance I was telling youabout where I was talking to the
thieves.
And he's like we were trying tonegotiate to pay him cash, like

(48:48):
a lesser number, to get him todeliver load.
He's like, dude, I'm not goingto deliver this load.
Like you're just going to callthe authorities and my driver
arrested.
Like they're like they don'twant to get caught.
So, like when they thinkthere's a high likelihood on
their point of view, they'reprobably just going to move on
to another target.
Likelihood on their point ofview, they're probably just
going to move on to anothertarget.
So again, I know that slowsdown a little bit.

(49:09):
I know people like to bookloads via email.
It seems more efficient andlike to me.
The thing that always gets me iswhen somebody says, like well,
I've moved four or 500 loadswithout a problem.
Why can't I keep doing this?
And it's like well, justbecause you didn't get robbed
yet doesn't mean what you'redoing doesn't mean you won't get
robbed today or tomorrow.
Yeah, right.
And it's like I always thinkabout that again from like a

(49:32):
physical analogy, like okay, youcan walk through a shady
neighborhood at the wrong timeof night, right, with something
that makes you look like youshould be getting robbed,
whatever it is, like a goldchain or something I'm thinking
back to like when you're like akid.
It's like, ok, yeah, maybe youdid that three or four times and
nothing happened.
But if you do that every day,eventually the odds are not in
your favor.
You're probably going to getmugged and something bad is

(49:53):
going to happen.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, that's a great conversation too.
Like going back to earlier onasking questions to your, to the
shipper um, there could, likethere is fear-based selling and
I'm not suggesting that, butthis is like the reality, right,
if you get a shipper, maybethey're a smaller shipper and
they haven't had an incident yet, but you can tell the stories
like, hey, it's great that youguys haven't run into this yet,
but let me just real quicklytell you what's been going on

(50:18):
lately and what these guys aredoing and, um, you know,
hopefully that'll give you someinsight on how to best protect
your guys.
You know operation so you don'thave something stolen, right.
And then you know, depending onthe commodity, there's
different level of risk.
So if someone's doing retailgoods or electronics or
something that can easily beflipped on the black market,
like those are huge, likevulnerable commodities Like I

(50:41):
always commodities, I alwaysjokingly, I love the Fast and
Furious franchise.
Rip Paul Walker.
But the opening scene of thefirst movie is 300 civics
hijacking a bunch of electronics, right, those are the types of
commodities.
The stolen one that I dealtwith I think it was last year
was like $400 worth of Adidaspants or something like that.

(51:04):
Like, yeah, you can sell thoseRight.
So, yeah, you know, you thinkabout these corner stores in a
city that like sells clothes andelectronics and whatever, like
that's a very easy way forpeople to, you know, launder
stolen goods and make money forit.
So, yeah, just, you know goodsand make money for it.

(51:26):
So, yeah, just, uh, you know,be cautious.
And I think you know the whole,the whole process thing we've
broken down in quite detail inother episodes, so I don't want
to like beat the dead horse onthat.
But cautionary tale, did youhave anything recently like, uh,
I know you had the one back inapril, I think it was but
anything recently where you guyshave either had near misses or
anything like bad actors likethat?

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I've seen a few where we've had loads delivered but
before we have paid the carrieror invoiced, the carriers have
reported that their emails werehacked or their systems were
hacked right, that their emailswere hacked or their systems
were hacked right.
And in a few of those I duginto them because I'm like, okay

(52:08):
, I trained our accountingpersonnel to go hey, if these
alerts come in and the load'sdelivered, the operation team is
not going to look into this,they're on to their next load.
You guys on the accounting side, before we release payment to
the carrier, need to verify thatthat is the trucking company
that actually ran this, that weactually did the work with the
company we're about to pay,because I've seen things happen
from months ago where we getnotified and say, hey, this

(52:30):
carrier didn't run your load andthey're coming after us for
money, right.
So I was training theaccounting people to make sure
that this isn't just to book theload.
Make sure the load is picked upand delivered.
This is also before you pay thecarrier if you see an alert
after.
So, like this is reallyimportant, I think, to layer
into your invoicing and accountspayable.
You know processes in yourcompany and I, you and I've

(52:54):
talked about it.
We're not going to get intothis, but like there are, for
sure, more vulnerabilities thatI have found in lots of places,
cause I'm like, oh my God, likethis wouldn't have caught it,
this didn't catch it, thiswouldn't have caught it.
And also like this didn't evenget alerted until after this
happened.
But when I spoke to the carrier, they're like, yeah, this
happened three days ago.
I'm like, oh, my load gotpicked up and delivered between

(53:15):
two days ago and yesterday.
So like they are alerting folksand sometimes these aren't even
coming out until like a coupleof days.
So like there are, for sure,things you want to make sure
you're doing, from load pickup,verifying the carrier before you
book them, all the way untilyou're going to release payment
for whoever performed the workfor you.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, we've gone as far as, like, if we've asked the
carrier to do something andthey failed, like you know, know
, quick scope or tracking orwhat pictures or whatever right
we will, we'll go as far assaying, like, we need to see
your, your eld report, like adownload of your eld, to show
this came from your equipmentand we'll see where it was and

(53:56):
when it was there, and all thatso, and oftentimes, like a
double broker, will push back onyou like, well, I don't know
how to, I don't know how to get,I don't have the login for it,
and it's like you didn't haulthe load man, yep, clearly, so,
yeah, and then eventually theygo away.
So, and then you sit there andthen you got to figure out, like

(54:16):
, who actually hauled this thing, right?
Yep, so, and it could take, youknow, month, two months.
Eventually that poor owner,operator, whoever it was like,
ends up getting to your customerand then comes to you and is
like what's going on with this?
And yeah, so anyway, we touchedon a lot there today.

(54:37):
What do we have upcoming?
We're going to do?
We're going to do speaking oflike software and tools, like
we'll we'll do some TMSdiscussion in the near future
too.
I'm in that vetting processright now for our next, what's
our next move at PierceWorldwide Logistics for the
latest and greatest and there'ssome really cool ones out there
now and there's some ones outthere that really aren't that

(54:57):
great.
I've come to come to find inthis exploratory event.
Here We'll do some more likereal world, like fraud, like how
things were caught, what allhappened and things like that.
If you guys have stories for us, you want our opinion on what

(55:18):
we would have done differentlyor how you can handle them
moving forward, always leave acomment, shoot us a message,
info at Freight360.net or justgo to our website and fill out a
contact form.
We always try to answer yourguys' questions on our final
mile segment, which comes out onTuesday.
Anything else noteworthy or youwant to add in for today's
episode?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
A lot more stuff we'll share, but I don't want to
share yet, as we kind of getthem together Stuff we were kind
of talking about off air that Ithink I'm pretty excited about.
I think the more we're spendingtime in this, the closer I
think we're going to be able tocontribute and help prevent this
at a much larger scale.
So I'm pretty excited aboutthat.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yep for sure.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
All right.
Final thoughts Whether youbelieve you can or believe you
can't, you're right.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
And until next time go Bills.