Renegotiating Failed Bids | Episode 295

In this episode of Freight 360, we cover key issues in freight and trucking—from 4% of truckers being unlicensed to low freight volumes and economic pressures. They break down double brokering vs. interlining, highlight fraud and safety risks, and explore challenges in trailer rentals, bids, and project management

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back Freight360 community.
It's episode 295 of theFreight360 podcast.
As always, if you are lookingfor all of our content or any
specific content, go right toour website, freight360.net.
We've got a searchable libraryin there.
Our YouTube channel also is agreat way to find.

(00:21):
We've got all kinds ofdifferent like what do they call
them?
Like playlists, right With likesome sales stuff, the final
mile Q&A, the full lengthpodcast, et cetera.
Freight broker basics coursefor an educational option.
It's great training for yourteam.
We've even white labeled it forcertain companies by
customizing what they want theirfolks to see or not see, for

(00:41):
that matter and share with yourfriends.
The uh.
Help the movement.
Keep on growing.
Um ben.
What's happening, man?
How we doing?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
doing well.
Man, it's getting pretty hotdown here.
Last couple days, dude likehigh is supposed to be like 86,
normal it's been like 95 96.
I had tennis last night oh mygod, it was, was horrendous.
I can't remember last time Iwas that hot, that tired.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's actually surprisingly not good weather.
Well, I don't know if I shouldsay surprisingly, but everyone
here is complaining about whenare we going to get 70-degree
weather?
We had a bit of a nice warmstretch, kind of felt like an
early summer and it's like beenin the 50s and 40s and rainy

(01:28):
this month.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
This is.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
it's like April weather, but in May right now.
But anyway, today's JoshAllen's birthday, it's May 21st
as we as we record.
So happy 29th birthday, ja,number 17.
Anything sports.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Did you watch the PGA ?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
championship.
I did, it was pretty good.
Did you watch it?
Um, I had drill, so not total,I caught up.
I caught a little bit here andthere.
I literally had drill thursday,friday, saturday, sunday, so
the entire tournament.
Um saw that scheffler won.
Here's something interestingthough, because I'm in a monday
night men's golf league and oneof the guys um that I was
playing against um, he's likeman, I love my driver he's, and

(02:11):
you know we're all asking likewhat is it?
Blah, blah, um, he's like youcan hit it, you know, open face,
closed face, straight on hegoes.
It's like self-correcting, hegoes scotty scheffer, literally.
They literally pulled it fromhim at the pga championship, and
I was, like what I didn'trealize?
Like, apparently, it's likethey're like 50 different.
This, this could be totallywrong.
What the guy was telling me isthat, like in these big

(02:33):
tournaments, when they go aroundand like check people's clubs,
like on average, like 50 golfersget at least a single club
pulled from their bag by theinspectors or whoever's in
charge of it because it doesn'tmeet the pga specs.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Oh, um, so I don't know if there's any accuracy to
that, but apparently yeah,scotty scheffler confirms use of
backup driver like rory afterthe originals uses replacement
driver en route to pachampionship when his driver
failed testing.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I wonder what kind of driver it was I don't know, but
like when he was telling methis, my first thought was like
where do I get one of thosethat's?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
where my brain went.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
You know what's funny .
So I've been using my old, olddriver the last like year and a
half, like I got this driverlegitimately in 2007.
I bought a new one like fiveyears ago.
In 2007, I bought a new onelike five years ago and I think
it was it might have been thatit might have been last year

(03:31):
that like the club had, or thehead of it snapped off and I was
like I'll just go back to myold one and I'm like an old
faithful.
I just I had it consistently,so I just had you know most
important thing I got anotherdriver.
I'm using my old R5.
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I don't know why I was thinking about that
last night for some reason, justlike when I got my golf clubs.
I mean, I don't play nearly asfrequently, so like I haven't
replaced them in probably six orseven years and I was thinking
about that last night for someweird reason.
I'm like, yeah, my driver I gotwhen I worked at TQL.
Like that's how long I've hadthat driver.
But to your point, I'm like I'mconsistent with it and like I

(04:08):
would rather hit consistentlythan get an extra five or 10
yards.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, I didn't like trying to mess around Like the
one that I ended up buying.
Um, I think I bought it becausewhen I was in, when I was on my
honeymoon, I rented, rentedclubs.
It's like in Hawaii years agoand I rented clubs and the
driver that I ended up buyingwas basically a version of the
one that I rented and I reallyliked it, but it has like all

(04:33):
the weights on it and I couldn'tyou could like slide them back
and forth to like adjust draw,fade and elevation and all that
stuff.
I'm like couldn't figure it out.
I don't golf enough.
Like I literally golf nineholes once a week, um, for a few
months in the summer and that'sabout it.
So, but anyway, um, that's,that was the big sports thing.
Uh, news like there's just alot going on in the freight

(04:57):
world.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
We got like what do you got?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
the and this is kind of like you get conflicting
reports because people aretalking about different things
but you hear like, oh, freightvolumes are down.
And then you hear, oh, freightvolumes are going to be up.
It's the whole like whiplasheffect from the tariffs and now
it's like we had uncertainty sowe had a surge of imports before

(05:21):
this presidency came in andthen you've got tariffs going to
place, so stuff is sitting inwarehouses and freight volumes
are down.
We do have actual reports ofimports through Ports Valley and
Long Beach.
That's the busiest port area inthe United States.
They're down like 30% in May.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, I saw that orders were down, like what
they're expecting to come in tobe down 30%.
But the thing I saw today wasthat as of now they're down 14%,
I think in Long Beach 10 or 11in LA, and they're expecting
them to continue to go down.
I think what nobody knew washow much of that cargo was in
bonded warehouses to be releasedfrom the tariffs because there

(06:01):
was a huge push and they call ita my brain blanked like a push
forward, like every company toavoid the tariffs order as much
as they could that some of thatstuff that did hit was sitting
in bonded warehouses.
Now that there was the pause inthe tariffs, they thought a
large portion would be released.
But I'm not seeing a ton ofchanges in rates coming out of

(06:27):
Cali.
I would have expected, if itwas going to be that significant
because orders are for sure,down.
I definitely read that there area lot more blank sailings,
meaning empty ships coming backfrom China over the next few
weeks.
For sure I know that oceanrates coming from China into the
US are up 41%.
So not only are orders down,the prices to ship from China

(06:49):
into the US is up and tariffseven though they're at 30 and
not 145, it's your point ofreference.
They've never been 30% beforeeither, so they're still higher
than they've ever been, eventhough they're not this obscene
145.
And then the third or fourthpoint on that, like Genlogs put
this out, on shipper data,they've seen Walmart, amazon and
Target.

(07:09):
All of their load volumes areall down and again, if the
larger stores are seeing adecrease in shipping volume, one
of two things are happeningPeople are buying less stuff, or
they're expecting people to buyless stuff, or they couldn't
get enough stuff.
I mean, it could be a mix ofall the three.
But and then the last point Isaw yesterday is consumer
confidence is at its lowestpoint since 2023, right after

(07:32):
the pandemic, when the entirebasically world economy, global
economy, expected us to have arecession.
So there is nothing that Icould find that seems to be a
silver lining and more freightcoming into the country in the
next rest of this year.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, here's a.
I just pull this from Reuters.
This is a good explanation ofhow bonded warehouses work, if
you're curious.
So bonded warehouses, it saysthe US has more than 1700 bonded
warehouses, which arefacilities where imported goods
can be held without immediatepayment of customs duties such
as tariffs.
Such fees are only paid whenthe goods leave the bonded

(08:09):
warehouse along businesses tomanage funds more effectively at
a time of extreme trade policyvolatility.
So, basically, these importscan come in and they're not
they're like in limbo pause.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's like you don't pay a tariff until it's released
.
So it's literally.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
And cleared of from customs, yes, you don't have to
pay a tariff.
So that's why when people seehuge tariff, they're like put it
in the bonded warehouse, we'llsee how this shakes out.
And now that's why you'reseeing when, with tariffs coming
down, I thought I saw a statthe other day that was like the
number of shipments that wereexpected to be released out of

(08:46):
the.
It was like twenty thousand orsomething like that.
Containers worth, or does thateven?
Does that sound like ballparkaccurate?
You think sounds right.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
I have no idea how much went in there.
I know that they basically youcouldn't find one.
So like all of the capacity ofbonded warehouse on the West
Coast was sucked up.
But also East Coast portsvolumes are all down.
So even if those do getreleased, there's just a lot
less stuff being purchased.
And again, like it's really kindof a simple reason, Regardless
of where you sit politically,like when there's uncertainty

(09:17):
and you don't know what's gonnahappen, consumers buy less, even
if things turn out to be good.
Because when you're worriedabout the future you don't spend
as much.
And companies do the samebecause, like you can't plan for
it.
So companies are like, does itmake sense?
Like I've heard large companieslike, does it make sense to
invest two billion dollars overthree years to start making

(09:37):
something in the US?
Well, what if this alldisappears before the building
gets built?
And then we can source fromanother country and that's a
bunch of wasted money.
So until anyone reallycompanies or people, I think
have some stability, you'regoing to see a lot less cargo
being moved, which is not greatfor carriers.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yep.
Other quick headlines.
And this is you can always getour newsletter at free360.net.
Always get our newsletter atFreight360.net.
There's a sign-up link there.
4% of truckers were found to beunlicensed.
That is scary.
One in 25 drivers did not havea valid CDL.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Didn't have a valid CDL.
That is insane.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
This is like the hot talk this week, so I'll just
read you the blurb from ours.
A new analysis by truckingsafety expert Adam Wingfield has
revealed a jarring stat About4% of commercial drivers on US
highways are operating without avalid CDL.
It might sound like a smallnumber, but an industry that
moves over 70% of the nation'sfreight, it's a dangerous

(10:39):
liability, both in terms of roadsafety and public perception.
Drivers behind the wheel of a26,000 plus pound machine often
hauling hazmat or navigatingcongested areas with very little
margin for error.
It's not just about paperwork.
It's about the lives, liabilityand trust of public places in
our industry.
Deeper dive into the 2025 roadcheck week shows the issue runs

(11:01):
even deeper.
Over 56% of trucks inspectedhad violations and nearly one in
five were placed out of service.
Combine that with 645 fataltruck crashes in Q1 alone, each
estimated to cost $7.2 million.
It's clear that noncomplianceis hitting both safety metrics
and bottom lines.
Some point to relaxing hiringstandards in response to the

(11:24):
supposed driver shortage, butcritics argued that that's led
to corners being cut.
Tougher enforcement, especiallyon licensing, could tighten
capacity and nudge rates upward,but it could also restore the
image of truckers as skilledprofessionals and help keep
America's highways safe.
So that's a big deal, man Like,we just finished up the road
check last week and that's thekind of stuff you find out.
So here's a big deal, big deal.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Here's the thing.
I'll say a brief into politicsand back to this.
To loop it in is that I thinkyou know, Leffler, really point
out is like the FMCSA is justdrastically underfunded and
understaffed to try to keep upto date with all of the things
they're responsible for, whetherit's fraud and trucking

(12:06):
companies or brokerages that areoperating fraudulently, that
are being reported and theycan't do anything about to
drivers driving around thatdon't have licenses.
To what did he say?
One in four, one in five trucksdon't meet the safety standards
set out by the FMCSA.
Like I mean, by any stretch ofthe imagination, that government

(12:28):
organization is an abysmalfailure at what is expected of
them.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
The S in FMCSA is safety.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, and now you have the Secretary of
Transportation I was readingFree Caviar is again, I don't
think there's anything wrong,but, like, makes a public
statement that you know we'regoing to pull drivers that can't
speak English.
Okay, like, I'm sure there's asignificant amount of them maybe
that need addressed, but thatis nowhere close to 4% of every

(12:59):
truck driver that doesn't have alicense, or one in four trucks,
or one in five trucks notmeeting the safety standard.
It's like, hey, we're gonnadeal with this little small
issue that seems to be reallybig in the news.
That is like a drop of waterand this giant bucket of just I
don't know ineffectiveness andit's like I don't think it could

(13:20):
be both and, like you, canaddress for sure issues and
prioritize.
They're not mutually exclusivebut nobody's talking about the
things that we're talking aboutabout 4% of unlicensed drivers.
I didn't see anywhere inmainstream news.
I didn't see anything everabout one in five trucks not
meeting the safety standards.
It was never on the news.
That's just like an acceptedthing now.
Like, ah, we're just okay withthat, right, there's no need to

(13:41):
address this.
Like, just okay with that,right, there's no need to
address this.
Like.
There were two things in thenews.
Yesterday A truck was stolen,like moving in a PA highway,
literally.
They hijacked the truck like ina movie Truck, slowed down in
front of them Fast and Furiousstyle, got the truck to pull
over.
They stole $267,000 worth ofApple products.
The police report said theywere caught and they're facing

(14:04):
charges now.
And then there was one bustedon the news yesterday.
There was a guy in FortLauderdale, an Armenian, it said
organized crime ring, and inCalifornia that had stolen some
obscene amount of cargo fromAmazon.
They were also charged with Ithink I saw murder, kidnapping,

(14:25):
like it was not a small list ofcrimes and it's like everybody
knows this is happening.
And I see reports in mainstreamnews that it's a billion dollars
a year.
What did TIA say?
Like it is definitely more thana billion dollars a year.
Like I feel like I know apeople of all the stories I hear
, in a year I could add up tomore than a billion dollars of
just the cargo of people thathave talked to us that has been

(14:46):
stolen.
Like there's no way that numberisn't way above there.
Nobody's talking about any ofthese things and the thing
politically that bugs me aboutit is right now I think and
again, I don't really followpolitics that much, but I'm
pretty sure they're trying topass the next year's budget.
To pass the next year's budgetand from what I've read the
budget is bigger than last yearhas nothing allocated to

(15:11):
increasing the size of the FMCSAor the Department of
Transportation to address any ofthese issues.
Doge was supposed to cut $2trillion a year.
I heard that number has beenadjusted now to $250 billion, if
that, and they're spending more, so they're spending more.
The debt's going up.
They're spending no money ondriver safety.
They're yelling about peoplethat can't speak English and no
one's addressing the fact that,like this agency gets a billion
dollars a year, might need fivetimes that.

(15:33):
But that's nowhere to be seenbecause every congressman and
senator is just arguing to getwhatever they can for themselves
and it's just a giant shit showstill.
It didn't change anything.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's just a giant shit show.
Still, it didn't changeanything.
It's exactly the same as it'sever been.
So here I'll segue here intosomething.
I don't know why that made methink of like drivers doing
things that they shouldn't bedoing.
But here's one that came acrossthis week and I'm curious your
take on it, and I guess I wouldpose this as where do you draw
the line between doublebrokering and interlining?

(16:08):
Interlining, for those thatdon't understand it is when you
know, let's say, I'm a brokerand I'm going to hire two
different trucks to complete ashipment for me.
One's going to take it part ofthe way and then the second
one's going to take it the restof the way.
That's, in its most basic sense, interlining.
So here's what we had.
Happen is, a load was goingfrom California to Texas.

(16:29):
We gave it to carrier a andcarrier a got it from California
, california into Texas and then, for whatever reason, couldn't
get it to the delivery.
So they hired a second carrierto then take it to its final
destination without our approval.

(16:51):
We found out about it after ithappened.
So I'm curious your take on it.
Had we known about it andapproved it and vetted that
carrier and it was transparent.
I would say that's fineinterlining, interlining happens
all the time.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I've had it happen many times.
Well, here's my second question.
One would be was it pulled inthe same trailer and did they
have a trailer interchangeinsurance?

Speaker 1 (17:14):
No, totally separate equipment and everything.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
So they transloaded it, put it in another trailer
without you guys being able toverify that they had the proper
insurance to do that.
So if something would havehappened like nobody knows if
there was insurance to cover it.
So that's the first.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
So basically the first carrier drafted at a depot
in Austin and the secondcarrier got loaded at Austin and
took it to Waco.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, and it was at someone else's property Nobody
was aware of so for sure.
That to me is rebrokering theload, or unauthorized brokering.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Right now to your point like we're going to
obviously Right, yeah, but howdo you?
How do you go about?
How would you pay?
How would you make payments inthat situation?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Both of them.
I would pay and pay to pay?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
pay carrier B, or do you pay some to each?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Well, I would pay some to each, probably because
there's a chance that carrier Adoesn't pay carrier B.
Carrier B causes issues withthe receiver that you then have
to resolve later.
Now again, I'm dealing with afew of those right now with some
attorneys.
Like where things happen andlike, at the end of the day,

(18:28):
like it's not, like it's goingto go to court for a few hundred
dollars or a few grand, butlike that second carrier, if
they deliver the load andcarrier A doesn't pay carrier B,
they can cause you enoughproblems to basically make you
pay that second carrier, whichmeans you're out that money.
So that's why I would chop itin half and pay them both.
Now my last thought was likeagain for anyone out there on

(18:49):
how this should happen.
If carrier A has an issue, itneeds another carrier to take it
to delivery.
The carrier should communicatethat to the broker If they've
got another carrier.
Great Brokers are like great,you already have an option.
That's fantastic.
I don't have to find one.
Send me the MC.

(19:10):
I'm going to check.
Trailer interchange insuranceNeed to verify where it's going
to be transloaded, to make sureit's one insured to transition
it from one to the other, andthen two to make sure carrier B
has the right insurance shouldsomething happen at delivery
Right, and if all those thingsare okay, there's no problem.
Both carriers get paid, there'sno issue.
Right, right Now, the onlycaveat would have been had that
second driver been, like,temporarily leased on to carrier

(19:32):
A.
Now it's technically onecarrier and in that scenario you
don't need to know about ittechnically.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Here's what they told us before we figured it out.
They told us hey, I'm going totake it here, I've got another
driver that's going to finish it.
They, they gave us theimpression that they had another
, another driver in their fleetthat was going to do it, and the
reality is that's not whathappened, right.
So for those reasons, I'msaying DNU the carrier because

(20:01):
of their you know, mishandlingof the situation.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
So, um, interesting you got any crazy stories going
on this week on your end?
Um, really, to be honest, Imean one or two that might turn
into a pretty good story for alater episode I'm in the middle
of.
One is a similar scenario wherecarrier, double broker to load,

(20:24):
didn't pay the second carrierfrom like months ago and then
one of the two infamouscompanies that, like, represent
those carriers going after ashipper trying to say that, like
, the shipper owes them themoney.
And I'm currently in a back andforth with that council as to
why I think they're incorrectwith that counsel, as to why I

(20:46):
think they're incorrect, as ofyesterday, I asked them for the
cases that they said.
They had precedents that theycould cite and I dug into it.
And the FMCSA's guidance isevery party in a transaction is
responsible for vetting who theydo business with.
So just because a carrier booksa load with a fraudulent broker
doesn't mean all of a suddenthey can throw their hands up
and go, okay, broker, now youpay me too, or go after my

(21:08):
shipper to pay them.
They have a responsibility as abusiness owner and under FMCSA
guidance, to vet the broker thatgave them the load, which
didn't happen.
The second thing that didn'thappen is our shipper didn't
have any agreement or contractwith that carrier, and I think
the term is privity, which issome legal term for like having
a direct agreement between thatcarrier and the customer, which

(21:30):
they didn't have.
The third is, as a broker, wevetted that carrier that double
broker the load.
They were legitimate, theirFMCSA was in good standing, they
had the right authority.
Their equipment was listed onthe insurance.
There were no freight guardreports and no alerts anywhere
in the industry.
So we did our due diligence,vetted that carrier correctly.

(21:50):
Just because that carriercommitted the crime of double
brokering the load, stealing themoney and not paying them,
doesn't mean we're responsible.
And that was the first point Imade to the attorneys.
I was like he said to us well,we can't find them, so the only

(22:11):
people we can reach are you andthe shipper.
And I argued back and I wentyou have a due diligence to find
the person responsible, notjust to threaten lawsuits at
anybody.
You can find email addressesfor that's the criminal.
We did what we were supposed to.
It's your job to go find them.
Here's the bank account wewired.
Here's their information.
Go to the FMCSA.

(22:32):
It's their responsibility toknow who they gave this license
to.
That's not on us.
Go to the government agency andfind out who that is, or go to
the bank and use whatever youneed to to find out who actually
stole your money, becausethat's not on us and that's
certainly not on our shipper.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yep, wild, so development.
I'll give you a couple otherones that popped up and then
we'll get into a big discussionon bids that don't go as
expected.
So last week I was telling youabout the credit circumvention,
you know, building a load underone company and moving it under

(23:09):
another.
So this thing has played out tobe way more of a scheme than
anything.
So what we found out there'slike 20 loads and four different
customers.
So it's all messy.
We're trying to figure outwhat's what I just decide.
I'm going to call every singlecustomer.
So I called them all, talked totheir shipping department and

(23:32):
found out that none of them noneof the ones that that, uh, we
approved ever tendered a load tous, never had us in our system
never gave our broker a load.
They all, every single load, wasfor this unapproved customer.
Further, we see a bol for oneof these loads that has the.
It's a load that was tenderedto uber freight and we're like,

(23:56):
where does uber freight come in?
Like they're a brokerage.
So then we find out thiscustomer the name of the
customer is Delta FreightSolutions out of where other
than Glendale, california?
That's who is allegedly ourcustomer.
That we denied in the firstplace.
They are clearly a doublebroker.
And here's what happened thenis they took loads at least a

(24:20):
few of them we can verify atthis point.
They very likely, I wouldimagine, went on the load boards
posed as a carrier, took loads,double brokered them to a guy.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Your agent.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Trying to an agent in our company who, like this
guy's gone.
Now we got rid of him clearly.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
And then he triple brokered them out.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
And what he's actually trying to do is like no
one's trying to steal money,they're just all too lazy to get
customers.
It's like the old schoolversion of double brokering,
like, yeah, I'll just findsomeone for less.
So it's like we uncovered thislike big scheme.
So what we're, luckily, whatwe're able to do, is like we can
, we're hoping we can just fullyremove ourselves from the
situation and say like hey, weshould have never been involved

(24:58):
here, neither should have theguy that double brokered the
first time.
But at a minimum we can get allthe carriers to go directly to
who gave the load to us and justremove us and ideally get them
back to the original brokerwhose load it belonged to.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
So again, do not take legal advice from either of us.
We are certainly not attorneys.
But an attorney I talked toabout a similar situation, for a
client said first question doyou have an agreement with that
chipper Right?
Did your?

Speaker 1 (25:32):
agent or whatever Like this guy, started taking
loads without having a co-broker, exactly.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
And he says well, if there's no agreement, like as
the intermediary, basically youcan kind of step back and let
the carrier that moved thefreight Now they can go at the
shipper that benefited frommoving the freight if there were
no agreements them the load,but your contingent cargo likely

(26:00):
will cover your legal bills sothat when the carrier loops you
into the lawsuit at the shipper,who ultimately should pay them?
Or maybe the broker upstreamfrom you, depending on how that
plays out in court, liketheoretically, what you're
saying I think should work basedon a few instances I've worked
through, but I'll be reallycurious to see how this one
plays out for you.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, We'll, uh, we'll, we'll get to the bottom
of it, but what's?

Speaker 2 (26:23):
what's hilarious is like keep pulling that thread
and find more shit, I talked tothis like fraudulent agent.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
And I'm like dude, like I'm like I've been in this
business long enough to see whatyou're doing.
I'm like so then I got him toadmit like, yeah, he fully
intended to circumvent credit.
His goal was to eventually movethe customer back over once he
got him approved.
And he's like, I wasn't herelong enough before you guys can
be to even do that.
He goes.

(26:50):
I'm like did you know any ofthis stuff was double brokered?
He goes yeah, I'm aware of it.
And I'm like is there any otherones that are double brokered?
He's like yeah, there'sprobably a few in there.
And I'm like, dude, likeliterally, I'm like what you did
was double brokering.
Um, you know, technically.
I'm like so we, we can't, youknow, we can't be involved in
that.
And he's just like he's stilltrying to like stick to his

(27:11):
story.
That like what what he's doneis is not bad.
Um, so I'll, I'll, I'll let youknow how that pans out.
Another one that popped upyesterday I got a phone call
from a brokerage in Canada.
They're like hey, I wanted toverify if you had somebody
working for your brokeragethat's also working for us.
Our highway profile got flaggedfor someone logging in or the

(27:35):
IP address type thing.
So someone's logging into twoaccounts with the same IP
address and sure as heck man, Ilog into ours and I see it and
it's this girl that we firedlast month and and my guess is,
as she kind of saw the writingon the wall like it was probably
a couple weeks of like thisisn't working out before we were
, I finally was like, yeah, wegotta just, we just gotta stop,

(27:57):
we gotta be done with that.
Um, my guess is she.
She got hired on to anotherbrokerage in the meantime,
working remote as an agent, andwas logging into highway with
both sets of credentials.
They're like, yeah, you knowwe're working with Highway just

(28:19):
to explain the situation so itcan be not presented poorly on
their system.
It's just an insight, like it'snot, like it's a identity alert
or anything like that.
But it is like, hey, why issomeone logging into this
brokerage and this brokeragefrom the same address on Highway
?
So that was an interesting one.

(28:40):
But the real meat and potatoesthat today we're going to talk
about bids that don't go asplanned.
So, unless you got anythingelse, I feel like we've been
negative nancy's this entireepisode.
Yeah, just so we talked.
I I think I briefly like teasedthis one um last week, um,

(29:00):
maybe not, I can't remember.
But here's what.
Here's.
What's all happened is like bigproject, we've got rented
trailers, we've got droptrailers going on and I remember
this one.
The agent, just like quits, likeI'm done, and so we're trying
to pass it off to someone elsewithin the company.

(29:21):
Because here here are here's.
What we're up against is therented trailers.
I think we've got six right nowthat are rented and each one of
them is on a 90 day rentalbefore it has to get taken back
to the shop, inspected,maintenance done on it and re
reissued.
If we choose to renew it, allright.

(29:43):
And there's like varying datesof when, like some of them end
this month, some of them end inJuly when they're up for renewal
.
So we've got either way.
We've got trailers that arecurrently being rented that we
either, you know, pay for anddon't use, or we pay for and
still try to use, you know payfor and don't use, or we pay for

(30:03):
and still try to use.
The other part that we're upagainst is we have a contract
with this customer that we'rerequired to give them a 60 day
notice of cancellation before westop doing business for them.
And some people might say, well, why don't you just stop doing
business with them and, you know, say, screw it.
Well, they have our trailersthat are being rented, so, like
they legally, contractually,have the ability to use those
trailers.
So we can't just stop becausewe have to get the trailers back

(30:25):
, et cetera.
So now we're like all right,we're transitioning.
I got this other guy looking atall right, how do I do these
loads?
Does it all make sense?
Can I understand how to?
How to do it properly?
So he's going to, he's going totry it out and if, if he
doesn't feel comfortable with itafter about a month, then we'll
go towards the hey, let's finda way to get out of this within

(30:46):
the confines of our agreement.
All right.
So he finds out he's you knowthese, the, the rates that are
contracted.
There's thin margin on some,there's a good margin on some
and there's losses on some.
Overall, and with the previousbroker that is resigning.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
So you, know he's like that group of it.
To give me an idea, like if youtake the losses, the
break-evens and the wins, is ita?

Speaker 1 (31:18):
net positive it's a net gain, but it could be.
It could be healthier, so, likeit might, I'll just guess it
might be a net like eightpercent overall margin, which,
for all that work, and yeah,jude, saying we're to squeeze
man which is why we're havingthis conversation now.
Um, because I'm thinking a droptrailer program.
We are renting equipment from athird party or staging at a

(31:41):
customer's facility.
We're coordinating all thisstuff to make it happen.
You should be getting 20 atleast on something like that for
the amount of time it takes andthe cost savings to your
customer overall, becausethey're not having to pay
detention and layover.
They can literally load attheir convenience and ship out
every day with no, like yourcarriers love it, because

(32:02):
there's no, like you know.
They don't have to worry aboutsitting there for two hours
getting loaded or unloaded nodwell time.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Right, they can just go in and drop a trailer and
leave Increased inventory space,which is another added benefit
where they can just leave cargoin the trailers preloaded.
It's not taking up space intheir staging area, which allows
them to more efficiently keepmore inventory at lower cost.
Like there's a lot of benefitsto this to the shipper yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
So the reality is like yeah, we can spend some
more time because I think thethe person that resigned and I
spent a significant amount oftime with them going through
these lanes previously becauseshe had a tough time.
Um, she had a tough time on thecarrier negotiation side, like,
not so like sourcing andfinding the right price point

(32:48):
with these carriers.
Because, if you think about it,if I may, if, as a broker, I've
got an empty trailer to moveand I can go to a power only
carrier and say, hey, I wantthis trailer moved from here to
here, you can use it forwhatever you want for the next
10 days, just make sure it getsdropped off there.
90% of the time, you cantypically find a carrier to do

(33:13):
that for free or a very, very,very little cost.
We've got other brokers in ourcompany that move carriers.
I've worked with at no cost.
The carrier will move it forfree, um, and it's like really,
really high margin for thatreason.
But in this case she was havinga tough time sourcing power
only carriers to move it becauseshe just didn't know how to use

(33:34):
the tools effectively.
And on top of that, she'spaying them market rate for full
truckload when it should be,you know, an empty trailer that
they can use.
Maybe pay them $50 or $100,right, so that's the one side of
it which you know.
Yeah, if you fix all that, wehave a seasoned guy now who came

(33:55):
up through a big top 10brokerage, well-trained, so that
should take the margins fromeight to 25, give or take, so
that still won't get us to whereI think it should be, because
market conditions she quoted ittoo thin too.
So, like I went through the bidprocess with her and I was like,
hey, I'd be aiming for 20%margin on this stuff and I think

(34:16):
she bid it like her estimationwas like 12% is what she went in
and she got.
Naturally she got awarded allof their freight right.
Yeah, like so, luckily so okay,I guess that.
Then that begs the questionwhat do you do in a situation
when you bid low and rates arehigher than what you expected?

(34:37):
That's kind of the generaldiscussion we can have today and
I will give the I will prefacewith this with this specific
customer.
Uh, they did say, hey, weprefer to be with a sole
provider who can assist us andhas the bandwidth, you know, in
case someone sickers out.
They've got a team andinfrastructure to be able to

(34:58):
manage this project.
Solely because one point ofcontact for us keeps it simple,
we're happy to do a revisit thepricing and invoicing issues are
cheaper for them.
We have, yeah, invoicingsingular right, and there's a
clause in there that states, ifthere's any, you know anything I
forget the verbiage but there'sa clause in the contract that
we executed with them thatstates, like we can do a 30-day

(35:21):
notice of price changes ifunexpected things happen, such
as market changes, et cetera.
Like we have the ability torenegotiate throughout the year
under this clause.
Yes, but what you have to dothen is like how do you approach
that customer and have thatconversation, because that's
what needs to happen, and thatis happening today.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Let's go back a step.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
So to back up right.
So to back up right, anytimeI'm working on a bid that is of
any extended period of time,like more than a quarter, I
would say.
If it's a six month to a yearbid, right, I ask that question
100% of the time.
Hey, have you got?
The first question I was askedis hey, is this typically
standard?
Have you guys been runningannual bids for the past few

(36:08):
years?
Is this something you guys aredoing this year?
And usually the answer is no.
We've been doing this way for awhile.
My next question is always okay,do you or is there a way that
you've handled in the pastmarket fluctuations where you
have a big rejection rate fromyour carriers on a lane because

(36:28):
something unexpected happened,whether it's, you know, a
hurricane for a month orwhatever, to you know, changes
and import tariffs, who knows?
You just ask that generallylike, hey, because if they've
been running a year bid, thething you almost know for sure
is nobody's able to predict therates accurately for a year.
There's just too many thingsthat can and do happen across a

(36:49):
large number of lanes.
So, and I'm literally I have todo one this afternoon and I'm
in the second round and I askedthat question and the one we're
doing starts in July and goesall the way around.
So even with rate cast, I canonly go out 12 months.
So even with you know the besttools available, I can still
only predict a year from now.

(37:10):
This doesn't start for twomonths, right?
So, like, I'm still never goingto be able to definitively
guess this.
And then the way I always saythis and I think it matters how
you ask this and explain it is Iframe it as a benefit for them.
I go well, like hey, like Iknow you guys don't want to be
given a lot of loads back in anyway.
Like that just creates morework for your team.
How have you guys handled thisin the past?

(37:31):
Like, do you have procedures?
Is there a time to request rateincreases, should they occur?
I just want to kind ofunderstand how you've been doing
this Because, again, if I'mgoing to give you a rate, I want
to stand behind it for a yearif possible.
But in worst case scenario, likewhat has happened in the past
and in this one, they're likeyeah, like usually once or twice

(37:51):
a year, we'll accept a raterequest for an increase If it's
justified, and we see that inthe market we will grant them
most of the time.
Sometimes we don't.
I'm like, okay, because againin the one I'm doing rates
drastically changed from summerinto winter and it's like a
flatbed one.
I'm like, okay, well, like then, at least I know I want to make

(38:15):
sure I don't have to requestthis until the fall or in the
winter, when rates mightdrastically change to things no
one knows, right, I don't know,maybe steel production in the US
doubles or triples somemiraculous way and like all of
the capacity gets absorbedbecause we don't bring it in
from import.
Who knows?
Right, yeah, so I kind of tryto factor that in and I always
ask that upfront.
And the reason I ask it upfrontand this is important, not only

(38:39):
that you ask it, you write thatshit down in your CRM, who you
talk to.
When you asked it, what theytold you.
So you got that date, becauseif I've got to ask a request in
whatever December or November,like I can go back to that
person and reference thatconversation.
Hey look, we're seeing a hugechange in this lane.
It's up 40%, like we just wecan hold it for another week or
so, but we just can't take thismany losses for any extended

(39:01):
period of time.
Remember when I asked you thisin June, prior to the bid, you
had said once or twice a yearyou do this.
How can I go about that?
Because when you can referenceto the person that told you this
, when they told you it and howthey told you it, it makes this
conversation a lot smoother toresolve rather than just going
and sending an email like I'veseen people do.
Hey, I need an extra thousanddollars on this lane.

(39:23):
No matter how that customerfeels about that lane they might
even know that's true.
They are going to be incrediblyirritated that they got an
email about their bill going up.
It'd be like, hey, my gasbill's 80 bucks a month and all
of a sudden my gas company sentme a $400 bill.
Like, I don't care howjustified that is, you are going
to be angry.
You got to present the contextand the understanding before you

(39:43):
ask for it.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
So here's actual verbiage that we had in this
contract.
That we have in this contract.
This is like a sub paragraphunder the pricing clause, but
it's in the event that there isany catastrophic occurrence so
that's like your hurricane Rightor extreme changes to market
conditions occurring prior tothe annual pricing revisit

(40:04):
Broker will provide a 30 daywritten notice to.
Broker will provide a 30 daywritten notice to that these
events deem an increase to bethe you know.
Yeah, I won't read the wholelegal, but basically like, if
there's an, if there's anIsolated incident or if there's
extreme market changes, we canwe have a 30 day when we have 30

(40:25):
days now instead of a year?
Um, so then you got to gothrough and say, like what, how
do you define extreme rightversus, uh, you know whatever?
So we had to go back and lookat when we did this last year.
Um, what, what did what wasforecasted versus what actually?

Speaker 2 (40:43):
when was it done?
Last year.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
It was like last fall , because it was um okay, so you
got about half a year left.
Yeah, so it's.
It's a three year contract withan annual pricing revisit
scheduled in then with a 30 daylike protective clause if
there's anything extreme.
So they want you to.
They say, hey, we want topartner for it for three years,

(41:08):
we want you to price in one yearchunks and if anything is out
like it's way off, you know youhave a 30 day 30 day waiting
period to revisit in thoseextreme events, which I think is
fair.
But I also would kind of.
What I don't necessarily likethere is that the customer

(41:30):
pretty much has all the controlin that situation, right, like.
So you know you feel like, yeah, we have three years, but
what's the stop that from justbeing like no, I'm not going to
use you like somebody else, wedon't have any recourse, right,
same thing if we want toincrease our rates the next year
and they say, no, I don't thinkso, we need somebody else.
No, I bet there's some recoursein there for damages, since the

(41:54):
fact that, like you're leasingtrailers on their behalf,
there's probably some companywho just decided they didn't
want to, didn't want to, uh,uphold their head and uh, we, we
try to um send them a bill andthey're like, nope, like
basically, what's your attorneysay, what's that?
That's all basically not notworth.
The legal sent them a bill andthey're like nope, Like
basically trying to say what didyour attorney say?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
What's that?

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Oh, basically not worth the legal fees.
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
So well, that's the other question.
It's like can you get it?
Even if you win in court?
Is it worth spending to get itback?
Like now in this scenario,right Like knowing they want to
use one point of contact,knowing that you've got trailers
all over their property,knowing that some of those
trailers are likely loaded withtheir commodities.
Right Like, even if they didwant to stop, there's a cost to
that In time getting a newcompany.

(42:39):
In getting it through bid, theymight pay more, they might not
get the same service.
Like there's a lot of risk forthem walking away, even though
it can happen to your point.
So I wouldn't say you have noleverage.
The way I would frame this backto them is listen, we had some
change over in personnel.
Like was there a personalrelationship with that agent?

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Oh, yes, I'll tell you through what my, my strategy
is.
That, I think, is a bestpractice and we can talk through
it.
So and this can apply to anybid that's not going as planned
is you don't want to go at itand just say, like our rates are
too low, we need to increasethem, right?
It's the same way that you havea conversation with any

(43:20):
customer about prices.
You want to set the stage andgive perspective as to why you
are either asking for more moneyor why you're asking to change
something, right?

Speaker 2 (43:31):
So, and here's the other thing- and always do that
over the phone.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
She still hasn't told this customer that she's like
intending that she's resigning,right?
So it's like there's a wholebunch of stuff.
So we need to go into it verydelicately like, hey, we're
going to lay it all out here,we're going to explain exactly
what the situation is here andyou have to admit some some
fault, like we.

(43:56):
You know this was definitely aresponsibility.
Exactly Like you know we, wedefinitely miss, you know,
misestimated, and we can explainlike the reality is um, this
individual is struggling to workindependently, really to
succeed and to develop, is goingto really need to be in in a,

(44:18):
in an office setting um, withoversight and supervision, and,
you know, guidance and hasn't,you know, does not have that
right now.
And, um, you know you knowwe'll take.
You know we does not have thatright now and you know, you know
we'll take.
You know we're going to takeownership on, you know, agreeing
to this situation and thiscontract.
She takes ownership onmiscalculating what the market

(44:41):
was going to look like, with thewhole goal of like, hey, we
want to serve you, we want tomeet the original goal, which is
to have a cost efficient,single source solution for you,
and then we believe we can dothat.
We just seem to.
We're just asking that we can,you know, sharpen our pencil and

(45:01):
revisit the pricing for this tobe worth everybody's time,
focus and energy, and I think ifyou can go into it with that,
it's a win-win for everybody.
Customer still gets what theywant, just at a more realistic
rate, which is still cheaperthan if they didn't do this
altogether.
They don't have to changeproviders and we can actually

(45:23):
get the pricing that we need.
So we're not asking for a ton,but just enough to put us in a
fair pricing level, becausethey're getting a deal on top of
a deal right now and they'rethe only one that's winning, and
that's probably why they werehappy to give 100% of their
business to us.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
And I think I'll boil that down into like first
principles, three steps takeresponsibility for whatever it
is and, however you do it,Reassure them that your
objective is still to fulfillthe agreement and to get done
what you committed to doing.
And then always bring asolution to the table, ideally
more than one right.
Hey, this is on us, this is whyit occurred.

(46:00):
Want to let you know full stop,we will take responsibility.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Secondly, our objective I want to pause right
there because that is aprinciple that I love and I
always in the army.
I use this all the time withany of my junior leaders or
anyone that I'm in charge of,and I always say, when I, when
they first start, when I do likea you know, I've called it
counseling that's kind of likeyou're like, here's your
expectations I always say, ifyou're going to come to me with
a problem, I welcome that, but Iask that you come to me with

(46:25):
that problem, that you come tome with possible courses of
action or solutions to thatproblem.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Well, going back a second, there's nothing that
irritates me more than whensomeone comes to me with a
problem and they're blamingeverybody and taking zero
responsibility Because now I gotto spend twice as much time
going.
Is it really everyone else'sfault?
Did the carrier really do allthis?
Did they really have all theright information?
Did you really ask the customerfor everything you should have?
Did you get everything thecustomer sent you to that

(46:50):
carrier?
Did you get it to him in areasonable amount of time?
You mean to tell me, in thisentire scenario, there's not one
thing you could have donedifferently or more effectively
the next time?
That would have maybe avoidedthis?
Because I think people talkabout growth mindset Like all
that really means is whensomething goes wrong, you first
have to look inward beforeoutward.

(47:10):
Even if it's not just you andthere were multiple people that
did things you can't change whatanybody else did or ever going
to do.
The only person you can everchange is yourself, and you
can't learn from what went wrongunless you first look at.
Even if I ended up and I wasn'tat fault as to why it happened,
I need to learn how I couldprevent that thing from screwing

(47:31):
me next time.
And I can't learn unless I lookat myself and take
responsibility, that, no matterwho's at fault, what can I do
differently to prevent the nextperson that's at fault from
screwing me?
Right, yeah, and you can'tlearn unless you take
responsibility.
Unless you take responsibility,so like to me, like that's your
first.
And also you go to a customerand you're blaming the market

(47:53):
carriers, them, the company youwork for this, and that they're
looking at you like so where areyou on this?
You're just this innocentvictim that put the whole deal
together and somehow you're just, you know, sitting in the
corner like, oh my God, it'severyone else's fault.
People can see through that,they can sniff that bullshit out
from a mile away and they'reway less likely to work with you
moving forward unless you ownup to it.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Right, and then again , what's that book with the old
uh fbi negotiator that we talkedabout uh?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
chris, voss, chris.
What's the difference?

Speaker 1 (48:23):
I think yes, so he.
I used to have his little.
See if I still have his cheatsheet at my desk here.
Um, there was a uh, yeah, I do.
It's like takeaways from hisbook.
Um, he had a yeah, neutralize.
The negative is what he calls it, and I'm just reading this
verbatim, but he uses the phraseuh, look, I'm an asshole, if

(48:47):
you remember that one.
Basically, you have to say like, look, we screwed up here.
Like you, it's.
It legitimately neutralizesthat instantly, because there is
no, there is no doubt in yourcustomer's eyes that you're
taking responsibility Correct.
Whereas, like, if I go in and I, like you just said, if I just

(49:08):
start giving problems first ofall, when someone comes to me,
like you just said, like nothingbothers me more than that,
right, if someone comes to meand I've had this happen in work
situations where someone comesand just starts saying this is
screwed up or this is messed up,and that said, I get frustrated
because I'm like my head goesright to like what did you do
wrong and why aren't you likeadmitting it?

(49:29):
It speaks to your character.
The reality is you have tolearn that skill, right.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Well, it's funny.
As a parent, right, the firstthing I do, right, when my
daughter does something and Iknow she did something, she
knows she did something shewasn't supposed to is I don't
get upset and I calmly try toget her to do that because
there's a fear, right, like hey,if I tell you I did something
wrong I'm going to get yelled at.
I know I wasn't supposed to.
You told me, right, like mydaughter knocked, like two

(49:55):
flower vases over in the livingroom the other day and my wife's
like don't move the big couch,pitch couch pillows in front of
the TV without me because, likeyou might knock a lamp over
something.
She did it.
My wife walked away when I wasin the office so I ran out and
she just looked at me and Icould see she for sure knew she
did what she did was wrong.
She looked at me, knew shewasn't supposed to and whispered

(50:16):
like do we have to tell mommy?
Cause?
I'm sure my wife told her like,right before this happened,
right, and I'm like, honey, it'sokay, like I'm never going to
be upset with you for admittingwhen you do something wrong.
The important part is youunderstand that, you learn from
it and you don't do it again.
Me yelling isn't going to helpyou learn, it's just going to

(50:37):
make you scared and you're notgoing to gain anything from it
anyway.
And it's the same thing in abusiness context.
Right, like the customers,again I've been yelled at for my
customers in this conversation,or I've called them and like,
hey, like this is on me, Iabsolutely thought I checked
this truck, had this rightequipment.
I definitely missed this piece.
I know they got rejected, Iknow it was an important load

(50:58):
and I know you probably got sixemails and three phone calls
yelling at you already.
That is for sure on me.
I've gotten literally yelled at.
But I also know, even as scaredas I was to make those first
calls every single time on theother end of it, when that
person calmed down later thatday or the next day or two days
later, they appreciated meowning up to it and they trusted

(51:19):
me more moving forward, becausethey know everyone knows
everyone makes mistakes.
Not everybody does is takeresponsibility for the shit they
make mistakes for, and that ischaracter and that's what people
look for in people they dobusiness with.
Everybody's going to screwsomething up.
Not everybody takesresponsibility.
So when you do that, you setyourself apart and position

(51:41):
yourself to work towards asolution and, like in your case,
like I think that's exactly howI go about it I think I would
really think through how I framethe first person telling them
they're leaving and I thinkyou're right, as in like hey, I
bit off more than I can chew.
This is on me.
I thought I was going to be ableto oversee all of this, but the
reality is is I'm going to needmore administrative support to

(52:01):
provide the service you expect.
I don't want you to get lessbecause I made a mistake.
I think the service is the mostimportant Customer's likely
going to agree.
Then it's like well, okay, canwe review this and possibly
resubmit some rates andsubjections so that we can give
you what you're expecting in away that doesn't collapse us,
Because me trying to do all thisyour service is not going to be

(52:24):
what you expect.
I can't pay one or two peopleto do this all day with me,
unless I readjust this in someway, Can I look at this work
through some suggestions andbring them back?

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, because I think , like you just did exactly what
I'm going to describe, which islike the bottom line up front,
or bluff, if you've ever heardit called that is like hey, we
screwed up, we'd love tocontinue doing business with you
, and in order to do that, we'regoing to need to revisit
pricing.
It's a bottom line, up front,right, so there's no

(52:53):
sugarcoating it or any of that,and then you can break it down.
You're not?

Speaker 2 (52:56):
burying the lead all the way in the back going well,
this and that, and I think likethe admins and the other people
using the computers and anotherperson might cost me like a
thousand bucks a week.
And then I got to go into theoffice, so like I might need
like one and a half people, andthen you know like Pierce is
going to have to deal with alittle bit of insurance.
Like no one wants to hear allthat shit up front, they just

(53:17):
want you to tell them directlyto your point, right up front.
Hey, it's probably going tocost more.
I don't know what that numberis.
Let me see what it'll take toactually support your
expectations.
And can I bring that back toyou for us to discuss?

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yep, precisely so.
And then you know you can.
You can also talk through likehey, I understand, like if this
isn't going to work with you andwe're not the right partner
we're not a good fit.
It's on me to understand, that'son us.
You take an ownership, right,but it it sets the tone and the
expectation that that, like you,are there to work for them, not

(53:53):
just take from them, right, andI think that is a key way it's
all about.
Like we can't tell you exactlywhat to say in these situations
because they're allsituationally dependent.
It's the overarching principleshere are like going into it

(54:16):
with a mentality of trying toreach a solution, not just take
from that customer.
So, and the reality is too,like if you screwed up on your
pricing and you underbid, thecustomer might tell you to F off
and you'll never haul a load.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
You got to be able to accept that.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
And that will serve as a learning lesson for you in
your career.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Here's one.
Here's a similar conversationthat I see a lot, and this is a
scenario where the broker is notat fault.
The customer caused the problem.
But you need to have a similarconversation, right?
Yeah, customers that aretelling you flat out they want
the cheapest truck you can findall day.
Then, three hours later,they're calling and screaming at

(54:49):
you because the truck's notthere at the exact moment they
expected it.
Right, and they do this overand over, and it's probably one
of the most common thingsbrokers deal with, right?
What I always do in thatscenario is like I'm going to
pick up the phone and have aconversation and I'm going to
say hey, listen, I understandyou're frustrated.
This guy's a little late.
Yeah, this is ridiculous.
This guy's supposed to be hereat one, like you told me.

(55:09):
He's going to be here at one.
Hey, I totally understand that.
But what I do want to explain isthat when I am paying the
lowest price to move yourshipment which is what you asked
there are going to be scenarios, more likely than not, where
the guy's going to be late.
Here's why they're late Because, in order to run your freight

(55:29):
cheaper than what a differentcarrier would run it for, they
are booking their loads as closetogether as they can, which
means that that last place thatguy's unloading at he was
supposed to be out of there attwo hours.
He didn't do anything wrong.
That facility didn't unload himfor three hours, which made him
a half an hour late to yourplace.
The carrier is doing everythinghe can to meet your expectation

(55:51):
of being the cheapest but atthe end of the day you get good,
you get cheap or you get itfast.
You get to pick two of thethree and if you want cheap he's
not going to be fast, or he'sgoing to be cheap and good but
not quick, like there'ssomething that has to give.
And you can't scream at driversthat are trying to make your
ridiculous rate work every dayand then yelling at them because

(56:12):
they can't drive faster and dothings that they can't predict.
They're doing the best they canto understand when they expect
to get delivered and to drivethere.
But you've driven places.
I'll bet you've gotten to worklate a few times in your life
and it's the same route you takeevery day and went home because
somebody got into an accident,because there were more traffic
lights, because somebody wasdriving slow in front of you,
this guy's driving 80,000 poundsdown the road.

(56:33):
Like, let's give him some grace, let's have some understanding
and let's work towards somethingthat makes more sense.
If you need these guys here, onethen one.
I either need a little bit moremoney or I gotta book them
earlier.
Right, like we need to worktogether to get you what you're
looking for, because justyelling about price and then
yelling you're not getting theservice isn't going to help you
solve your problem either.

(56:53):
Whether it's me or anotherbroker.
You can fire me today, but thenext guy you get you're going to
have the same conversation withtomorrow.
So, like, can we work togetherto understand how these things
affect each other?
Now, I usually get morebusiness from them and sometimes
they'll give me more rate.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Sometimes they just kick me out the door and I don't
work with them again.
But you know, this reminds meof and I'll wrap up with this is
we did an episode on all abouthow to have hard conversations,
and we get into more specifics.
Like you mentioned, late pickup, right, or you know, late could
be late anything delivery,whatever we talked about
breakdowns, storm delays justclaims, anything Right when,
when things don't go as planned,there are definitely tactical

(57:35):
ways that you can go abouthaving those conversations in a
manner that will not put you ina casket, metaphorically
speaking, with your customer.
So definitely check that oneout.
I think it's very, I think,will.
It's a great tool to have inyour uh, in your portfolio, as

(58:13):
you, as you go down through yourcareer, as you go on through
your career.
So definitely check that oneout.
I think this was a good, gooddiscussion.
I'll definitely have to keepyou posted on, uh, how this all
pans out, along with the otherwild scenarios.
So you got any?
any other thing you want to wrapup with.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Not particularly All right.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Final thoughts.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Whether you believe you can or believe you can't.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
You're right, and until next time, go Bills.