Why Most Freight Sales Reps Fail | Episode 301

Why do 95% of new sales reps wash out in their first year? This episode uncovers the mindset shifts, psychological hurdles, and authentic communication strategies that separate top freight brokers from those who struggle. Whether you're building a sales team or trying to thrive in the industry yourself, you'll get actionable insights to transform your results and boost retention.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome back Episode 301 of the Freight
360 podcast.
This is going to be asales-focused episode today, so
we know this is typically themajority of you really enjoy
this kind of content, sohopefully this will be a good
one for you.
You've got the website.

(00:20):
You've got YouTube, ourFacebook group.
Share us with your friends.
Leave that review.
I don't think we've asked for apodcast review in a while, so
feel free and go over to ApplePodcasts or Spotify, wherever
you're listening, and leave us afive-star review.
Send us your questions.
Check out the Freight BrokerBasics course on the website as

(00:45):
well, if you're looking for someeducational options and what
else here.
Uh, subscribe.
Yeah, ben.
What's new man, besides yourleaky roof?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
yeah, do you know?
What I was gonna tell you,though, is um, I found a couple
new.
I guess you call them likeexercises, um, anyway, I went
down.
So, like the health andwellness guy.
I love it yeah, I was listeningto this podcast.
I can't remember the guy's name, um, but he was like, uh, he

(01:13):
was on tim ferris and he wastalking.
He was a um, like worldchampion heavy lifter, but then
he was also like a worldchampion in jujitsu or martial
arts and the interestingconversation when he was just
talking about was like how lotsof traditional ways of strength
training cause like immobilityand like pain and then like

(01:36):
damage or like injuries andstuff.
Yeah, I don't know, I'm old.
That's like my biggest thingnow is like just avoiding
getting hurt, because it takeslike six months for anything to
heal and to feel better.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Dude, you're telling I'm literally still like I'm
just getting back into the gym,like I'm trying.
I'm trying, like at this pointnow, to get back in after
busting my knee up in May.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I want to say it was.
That's why I was thinking aboutthis, because I sent you that
guy I think his name is Dr Baird, the guy who studies tendons,
knees and really interestingCause I sent you that guy I
think his name's Dr Baird, theguy who studies tendons knees
yeah, and really interestingCause I mean like that's all he
does and he just talks aboutlike very little bit of
resistance frequently helpsstrengthen them quicker.
But this guy um, he was talkingabout this training.
Have you ever heard of ropeflow?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, I never heard of it.
It's like never heard.
It's like where they.
It's not like where you'redoing this, it's where they're
like literally spinning around.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I've seen that.
Think jump rope.
Yes, you're not jumping over it, it's basically going around
you or on either side and youfind like a rhythm and it's less
impact.
But it's supposedly really goodfor like mobility and
flexibility and spine and justworking tendons and muscles,
like the little ones you don'tdo very often specifically in

(02:49):
strength training and things.
And like I know it's because,like I told you this, like a
couple of years ago I got liketennis elbow from lifting.
I just like moved a bench orsomething wrong and it popped in
my elbow.
It took like a year for thatthing to heal.
So I was listening.
This guy was like they weretalking about.
He was like how quickly do youkind of see results or feel a

(03:10):
difference?
He's like this is the onlyexercise that like I feel better
immediately after I do it.
And he's like I've worked withathletes that see a difference
like once or twice, likeliterally two, three minutes a
day.
After one or two days start tofeel like you're a little more
balanced, you feel you just feelbetter.
And I don't I used to swim andit's just too hard to get in the
pool for that long anymore andI was like, oh, that's a really,

(03:31):
and it seemed like kind of funand easy to do.
I started doing it like twoweeks ago and both like one is
it is actually very enjoyable.
And two, I do it as like awarmup only for like a minute
and a half or two minutes andlike it really does, cause it
like works everything.
It like warms up your wholebody.
You've even I do it even beforeI stretch, cause it gets all

(03:52):
the blood flowing and then whenI go stretch I can do my
stretches so much deeper.
It takes like half the time tostretch.
Now, when I do that first,cause I'm like all warmed up and
I've got all the blood flowingthrough my muscles.
Definitely worth checking outthat.
And another guy I ordered theseI think they're called the EMT
clubs.
This guy's named Weck, but thatguy is the guy that I think
invented rope flow and he doeslots of rehab and he

(04:14):
specifically has like a ton ofstrength training and
flexibility stuff for golf andtennis, which are mostly what
you and I do.
So I ordered those two thingslast week and I've been doing
them all week and like, to behonest, like, like it absolutely
works.
Like I've gone to physicaltherapists spent hours with them
.
It takes months and I see likenothing.
I've done some of this stufffor like a week or two and I

(04:36):
start to feel already a littleless sore.
I'm a little less sore when Iwake up in the morning.
I'm not as like achy.
It was pretty significantactually for a very low effort.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Speaking of golf, I got to golf the kiowa ocean
course last week.
I know I sent you a picturefrom out there dude, it was
sweet, expensive but reallyreally cool for anyone that
lives in charleston or has beenthere like awesome, beautiful
areas, especially in thesummertime it looked gorgeous.
So, yeah, it was nice.
Man, your towels in the mail,get your, add your collection
there.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I use my Pinehurst towel regularly.
The last one, nice.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Nice.
What else is there in likesport?
Oh, Wimbledon's on.
It's actually on in my officeright now.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Oh, dude, thank you for reminding me, so I'm super
excited I don't.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
I'm not a tennis guy but I like sports so I usually
just throw on whatever's goingon, so news, anything related.
Sign up for our newsletter.
We we push stuff all the time.
I did see there was kind of a adecline in ocean shipping.
Yeah, Kind of like a whiplasheffect.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
It seemed like not only that decrease there and
like what everyone kind ofexpected.
I saw this morning I wasreading that like online sales
have taken a double digitdecline for the first time.
I don't know, maybe it was ever.
It's like basically everythingwe buy online.
For sure, most part comes fromanother country.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
And I was reading this morning Like the tariff
pause is like coming up nextweek.
Yeah, monday.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
So Online shopping sees biggest slowdown in over a
decade.
Online purchases for homedelivery experience double digit
percentage.
Year over year declines acrossmajor categories Office supplies
down 13%.
Sporting goods down 12,.
Cosmetics, furniture, homefurnishings, large electronics
all fell by 10 percent.
So yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
I feel like I'm my household's like been in the
opposite direction.
We've been buying so much craplately, but I guess that's.
I'm just one person.
Sample size.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
And it's just like I mean, everyone's like, oh, the
stock market's rallying.
And I'm like, yeah, most of thestock market rallies around
like I think seven stocks.
The other 500 or 493 are allbarely kind of hanging on.
I think the economy isabsolutely not faring very well
and I'm I mean the market's donewell overall cautiously

(07:06):
optimistic.
I'm hoping things get better,like, yeah, it just sucks not
seeing any industries reallydoing well.
I mean like it's anecdotal, butI'm like I don't know of
anybody or any industries thatare like actually doing very
well.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Um, oh, news did you see the genlogs video.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
No Dude, really cool.
In fact, one of the carriersthat is in there they did a
video on anatomy of a cargotheft ring.
It's on our free 360 page.
You should, and everybodyshould, absolutely watch this
because actually the firstcarrier in there was related to
a theft with somebody I wasworking with and it was MTC

(07:47):
Cargo.
They stole a load out ofCalifornia and how that actually
went down and this is why itwas really pretty interesting.
So how this went down, was thecriminal tried, didn't try,
offered to buy a truckingcompany.
The trucking company owner gavehim the logins before he got

(08:08):
paid, because the guy said oh, Iwant to go and look at all your
logins and check everythingbefore I send you the check for
whatever 25 grand.
And then that person was acriminal, changed all the logins
, the phone numbers and thenames and stole something like
10, 15 loads that day.
But what was interesting was-.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I feel like I've heard similar stories before.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes and you have.
But what was interesting aboutthis one was they impersonated
the carrier, meaning it wassophisticated.
They had the magnets andeverything done and the decals
put on their trucks so that theyvisually looked like the MC
that they were running under,even though they never actually
bought it or owned it.

(08:48):
Okay, stole somewhere between10, 15 loads that day before
everyone was kind of alerted asto what happened.
The other interesting thing wasHighway didn't pick up on the
phone number or a few of theseother things and they kind of
got through.
Now Highway later said that ifyou would have had LoadLock or

(09:09):
their higher product, it shouldhave caught it.
But I don't know for sure ifthat was the case.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
But here's where it gets even more interesting.
So it flagged them for a recentchange in FMCSA data, or no?
It?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
didn't flag anything because they never changed the
FMCSA.
They changed their phonenumbers in Highway with the
logins.
They didn't change the FMCSAinformation.
They changed the Highwayinformation, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, like their verified contacts or whatever.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes, and Highway said well, you know it's against our
policy that the owner gave thelogins to somebody else.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
That's true.
That's against their terms ofservice Right.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
And I did ask them.
I was like, well, don't you doMFA if somebody's logging in
from a suspicious location oranything?
And I guess at the time maybethey weren't or they are now, I
don't really know.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
I get it all the time .
Whenever I log in fromsomewhere else, it's going to
email me a code.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
That's what I said.
I went to log in just a secondand it's like give me your code
If I put my VPN on it asks meall the time to do this, so, but
here's what's interesting aboutthe Genlogs video is they have
VIN level data now, so they'vebeen able to find that truck
that was impersonating or thatwas involved in that theft, and
I had the driver's license too,so I sent them the driver's

(10:20):
license.
They not only found that VIN inthat truck, but they found it in
other thefts, so the same truckis popping up under all these
different MCs to steal freightand gen logs can identify that
specific power unit.
And the whole video breaks downnot only where they're also
popping up, but that they'regetting data ahead of these

(10:42):
things to be able to predict it.
And they've had shipper, Ithink photos or videos of the
guy that was the driver in thedriver's license that was
involved in the theft that I wasaware of, and it's a really
great breakdown shows exactlyhow they're doing this, what was
occurring, how they're findingthem.
It's really really good watch,interesting, I'll have to check

(11:02):
it out.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, I just saw it's on our LinkedIn page.
Very cool, all right.
Well, anyway, today we're goingto go through some sales stuff.
So kind of the baseline topichere is why most people don't
succeed in sales, and it wasfunny when I asked you this
morning like hey, what do youthink we should do for a topic,
and you brought it up Literallyearlier this week I was at my

(11:25):
golf league and my partnercouldn't make it, so he had a
sub playing for him and it'sanother guy that I know, but we
don't hang out as often, sowe're kind of catching up and I
was talking about work and he'slike.
He's like, let me ask you thishe's like what's like the
average freight broker make?
Like what can a broker earn?

(11:45):
And I was like what's like theaverage freight broker make?

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Like what can a broker earn?

Speaker 1 (11:48):
And I was like it really just depends, man.
I was like.
I was like I, you know, ifyou're fresh out of college and
you go through like a trainingprogram at a big company and you
do, okay, like you could makelike maybe 60 grand around there
and then grow from there.
I said I literally have someoneat my company that made a
million dollars last year.
I was like and that's yourmassive spectrum, like

(12:09):
everything in the middle, itjust depends on how well you,
how good you are at it, how wellyou can scale it.
He's like dude.
He's like that's crazy.
And I was like.
I was like, yeah, I was likebecause he's like, he's like
maybe I should do that.
I was like.
I was like look, I said it'svery high turnover.
And I said it's very, verysales focused.
I said people hear earningpotential and in any sales,

(12:34):
right, whether it's solar,freight, brokering, insurance,
right.
They hear that and they're likeoh, I, just as long as I get a
job in that industry, I'm goingto kill it.
And then the reality is like no, there is a lot that goes into
this and I think we coulddefinitely break down a lot of
the reasons that folks don'tsucceed because we've talked

(12:54):
about the numbers in the past,like TQL right, one out of 20,
like is going to be there twoyears down the road after they
start.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
I think it's something like and this is, I
think, with most of the largecompanies.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
It's not even just T-Mail.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, like any of the big W-2 models If you stay in
sales and you don't take like anoperations role, which I think
is different, and I'll explainwhat I mean.
It's like if you just stayed insales, like out of a hundred
people I think, like 95 getwashed out or leave in the first

(13:27):
year.
So there's like betweenprobably four or five out of
every hundred, maybe even alittle less, three out of every
hundred make it to like theirfirst year and one or two stay
beyond their second year.
So it's like probably 4% makeit through the first year and
probably 2% the second year.
Now there's there's anothercategory where folks like,
really like logistics and arereally good at booking trucks.

(13:47):
They're really good at details,they like arranging freight,
like the hustle and bustle of it, the fast pacedness.
Those folks will typically takelike a larger salary and lower
commission to stay in theindustry, but they get washed
out of sales.
Sales is the highest risk,highest return, highest failure

(14:08):
rate.
It's why the two highest paidpositions in the whole economy
are CEO and top salesperson inevery company, almost Yep 100%.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
So I think you make a good point there too.
It's not just that they getfired, it's like hey You're
actually probably better fitover here, and that's why
there's different positions anddifferent roles within a company
.
Because you might be like we'regoing to talk about why people
don't succeed in sales.
But you might be really good atsales, but you are terrible at

(14:38):
organization and you knowproject management and things
like that, where somebody mightnot be good at the actual sales
part of it, but be reallyorganized, really detail
oriented and all of that stuff.
So that's where you might.
That's where you see oftentimesyou're you know, when done
correctly right, your supervisoror your leadership is not

(15:01):
necessarily your bestsalesperson.
It's someone who's a reallygood leader and is, you know,
good enough and understandssales and can do it.
But they're not killing it insales.
They're really good at leadinga team and leading an
organization and having thatlong term vision.
Same thing with, like carriersales folks.
They might be really good attalking with drivers and
securing capacity, but you putthem on the phone with the

(15:22):
shipper.
It's a very differentconversation.
Very different job, yep, andsame thing with an account rep,

(15:55):
you know, versus a carrier salesrep.
Very different job.
I'm going to do the job and forthat reason I'm going to get
the income and be happy.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
So I pause right there, because you know what I
kept thinking of when we weregoing into this is there was a
guy I met this is probably 20years ago and same thing, sales,
but he was in like financialadvisory, right.
So very similar type of failurerate, success rate, very high
income potential, but very highwashout rate.
His they had a shirt that hehad made that basically said on

(16:21):
the back of it it said we'rewilling to do what you won't so
we can live like you can't.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
And it was kind of like a joke and it was kind of
you know what I mean, Like itwas like kind of a bragging
thing.
That's not terribly far off.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
But it was pretty true, right.
And I remember talking to himand he's like yeah, he's like,
like in our industry, like dude,when you start you make nothing
.
He's like I made like 20 granda year then he was older than me
and he's like, not only thathe's like, but I'm working 14
hours a day, going out everynight with clients that are
telling me no, over and overagain, making 150 calls, five,

(17:00):
six days a week.
For a year and a half before Iearned enough to basically not
eat ramen noodles.
He's like that's basically thefirst year or two of my industry
, but you do that two, threeyears and you succeed in that
like you can make a ton of money.
Not saying that like that's thesame as in freight brokerage,
but like they're pretty similar.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So Dave Ramsey has a quote thathe says often it's live, what
is it?
Live like no one else, so lateryou can live like no one else.
Like basically, do do what noone else wants to do now, just
like the T-shirt Right, so lateryou can live and do the things
that other people want and won'thave.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
One last quote on that Someone else at
Southwestern used to say this heused to teach his kid this and
I love this, and his son waslike fourth time.
And it was just if you dowhat's hard today, tomorrow will
be easier.
Do what's easy today, tomorrowis going to be harder.
And if you really just boil itdown to that today, tomorrow is
going to be harder.
And if you really just boil itdown to that on like another.
Another book I read somewheresaid a similar thing.
It's like if you're debatingbetween two choices, the thing

(17:57):
you probably are going to do isprobably the thing you shouldn't
, because your brain is almostalways going to protect you and
push you towards the easierthing.
So if you just opt into doingthe harder thing you don't want
to every day, eventually you'regoing to get somewhere much
farther than most.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
One more quote, and I don't know who.
I don't know who this is from,but it was.
It's.
It's very in line with that.
It's choose your hard rightLike, for example, it's hard
living as a 300 pound obeseperson.
It's also very hard to have thediscipline to go on a diet and
lose weight and do the exercise.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Only one has regret.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
One has two pains.
Yes, so choose your heart.
It's really hard to make 100calls a day and face rejection,
and do that for a year, year anda half to build up a stable
book of business.
But it's also really hard tocontinuously fail at jobs
because you're not applyingyourself and you're never going
to get the success that you want.
Choose your heart.
But back to expectationmanagement, and this a lot of

(18:48):
times I think it falls on theleadership, human resources, how
the hiring process goes.
And this is one of the thingsthat I loved when I started in
brokerage.
I left the trucking company,went to brokerage.
What would become?
My boss had me.
After an interview, he had mesit down in the bullpen around

(19:09):
everyone else that was makingcalls, like sit next to them,
listen to them, hear what theconversations are like, just
talk to them in between callsabout like what it's like day to
day.
And what's funny is like firstimpressions are sometimes
terribly inaccurate because,like I like the job, I was like,

(19:30):
yeah, like I'm like Idefinitely want to do this,
which I did, but like the actualpeople the one guy was like and
that guy's kind of an asshole.
I don't like.
I like the job but I don'treally want to work with them,
ends up.
The guy stood up in my weddinglike you know, he like he came
off a certain way and then webecame like really, really good
friends and to this day, likehe's in leadership at another
brokerage and as as am I.

(19:51):
We've both moved on from thatthat one.
But back to the whole.
The whole point is like ifyou're going to hire somebody
and you want good salespeople,make sure they really understand
what they're getting into.
And it doesn't have to be jobshadowing, but I, I highly
recommend it.
That's why we always tellpeople like, if you're thinking
about getting a brokerage, likesit down with someone who's

(20:12):
doing the job, take them out tocoffee, take them out to
breakfast or lunch and just like, talk about what it's like to
do the job, how does it impacttheir work-life balance and
their family life and how dothey feel at the end of the day,
what's like the hours andthings like that.
And also like talk about youknow, not even in just the
shadowing part, but like in yourinterview process or your your
recruiting phase.
Like talk through people'scomfort level when it comes to

(20:37):
talk like hey, have you evermade a cold call before.
Ok, you haven't.
Ok, well, you know, maybe weshould do some mock mock calls
and just kind of see how thisgoes, and it's not like we're
grading you on it, but just tolike see, see how it makes you
feel, cause we don't want towaste anybody's time.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
So great thing and that reminded me of something.
So two things that it remindedme of.
One is this is a company I usedto work.
It's called Davison.
They do, like you know,intellectual property, invention
stuff, but it's it's a salesjob, right.
And the thing I liked abouttheir interview process is
that's literally what they makeyou do, except here's how they

(21:13):
set it up.
They put you in a cubicle, theygive you a script, right, and
it's really short and it's notlike you really need to know it,
and they're just like hey,here's 10 phone numbers call
these people and like that'slike the first 10, 15 minutes of
the interview.
They just want to see are youwilling to do it, how much
hesitancy do you have?
And one of the phone numbers isactually the vice president at

(21:34):
the company and he answers thephone and you don't know that,
right, and he kind of and herole plays through it just to
kind of hear how you go.
But I mean, the real value inthat is to just see like how
hesitant is somebody to do this,because, like the thing I
always say to people that aregetting into sales is like you
learn your entire life that thisis not something that is like

(21:55):
socially acceptable.
Like you don't you learn to notinterrupt people.
You don't walk over and justask for things.
You don't just go and try tolike walk up to people that you
don't know, like we teach ourkids.
Like you don't talk tostrangers, like it's kind of
ingrained in you that, like it'snot a natural thing, right To
do this.
And then you've got to juststart picking up the phone and

(22:15):
there's that other cliche it'slike it's the 300 pound phone
when you start, because it's soemotionally terrifying to start
making those phone calls thatlike there's a lot of hesitancy
and even for people that havedone this like thousands of
times, like it kind of reallydoesn't go away.
You get into the habit of it,so you get a little used to it

(22:36):
and then it gets easier.
But if you stop for a month ortwo, starting again is like
starting as if, like you'venever done this before, like you
got to get back into the rhythm, back into the habit.
This isn't something thatreally comes second nature to
most.
I've met a few people that kindof just don't have that gear and
just could do that anyway.
But also, to your point, likethey're also the people that

(22:58):
like I've hung out with and Ilike them and I could picture
who these people are in my head.
Like they're also kind of thepeople that like socially kind
of make you feel uncomfortablein some ways because they just
act in a certain way that is alittle different than the norm
and what people are comfortableLike they'll just ask any
question, say anything thatcomes to their mind, like they
just kind of don't have thathesitancy in them and like

(23:21):
that's and I don't even thinkthey're natural salespeople, but
like that's really thatpsychological gear or whatever
that makes it a little easierfor some than others.
Maybe you can call it extrovert, but I think it's a little
different than that too.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, and even like, once you do hire somebody and
you're going through trying tofigure out, like so, let's say,
you know, sales versusoperations versus maybe a back
office role, and this is notjust for free.
This is in any organization.
If someone's a great culturalfit for your company and you
want to retain them, but youidentify that they're not great
at that position, going throughearly on the repetitions of

(23:59):
whatever the job is, that youidentify, hey, they're not
strong in this suit.
The earlier you can do that,the better.
It's going to save you time andheadache and all that stuff and
frustration.
And save you time and headacheand all that stuff and
frustration.
And we did this at the firstbrokerage I worked at was we
would just do mock calls, right,like we hire a new person and
you know you start out with likewe try to make it as realistic
but not as like stressful aspossible.

(24:19):
So like, hey, one of us will goin another room, um, you'll,
you'll sit at your desk, you'llcall our phone.
So you're not looking at me,right, it's going to simulate.
You know you've got the abilityto hang up and like, just not
have to still be looking at it,right, and you just go through
mock calls and obviously, like,when you know it's a mock call,
you're still going to treat it alittle bit differently.
But you go through repetitionof like um, the person on the

(24:41):
other end that's kind of helpingcoach them up or like get them
prepped or go through the reps,is going to throw curveballs at
them to prepare them for when itactually happens, right?
So the first time you get anobjection on the phone from a
customer, hopefully you'vealready thought through that
objection generically in somesort of training scenario
environment beforehand, right.
And we know in freightbrokering there's like 20 common

(25:04):
probably like five most commonobjections that customers will
give us.
Like we're not adding anybodyright now, it's customer routed.
What else do we got?
Oh, you know we only usecarriers or asset based carriers
.
You get like the standard onesthat like you should know like
how to bounce back at them,pivot, ask other questions, try

(25:26):
to get to the root of it all.
But if the first time a repcalls and someone's like hey,
we're actually we only use assetbased carriers, if their
response is OK, have a nice day,like that's.
You know you didn't.
You didn't progress at all, youdidn't learn anything?
You didn't move the needle atall, so I think so, outside of

(25:46):
expectation management, thatgoes to your training piece
right, like how is this personbeing onboarded, trained, guided
, et cetera?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
And here's the other thing too.
Right, we talked a little bitabout this, but I really do
think mindset is the first thingand everything kind of comes
from there in a certain way.
Right, Because, like and I saythis at the end of every show,
and like somebody said the otherday that hears me say it didn't
realize why I said it and I'mlike no, like, literally

(26:11):
everything you do in your lifestarts with whether or not you
believe you can or you believeit's worth doing.
Until you can do it.
Right, Like if you don't, andyou don't think you're going to
succeed, you have almost no shot.
Right, Because as soon as itgets tough, your brain is going
to convince you to do somethingelse.
Right, You're going to jumpinto something else.

(26:31):
Right, and it's like I somebodysaid this to a client of mine
that they reiterated to meyesterday.
Somebody said this to a clientof mine that they reiterated to
me yesterday.
My client went and spoke at thisevent and she got all these
referral partners.
It was an event for people thatwould refer business in her
industry.
Right, Got all these phonenumbers, text all these people,
but the person that set it up iskind of sells to the same group

(26:54):
of people and he said to herlike well, you know, these
people get bothered a lot andthey get sold everything, so try
not to bother them too much.
And she asked me she's like, so, like what should I do?
Like I don't want to be a pestand bother them.
And I was like well, let's takea beat for a second.
I said because, first off, ifyou are thinking that you're

(27:14):
bothering people, like you'vealready lost because you are not
going to succeed in sales, thatis the job.
The job is to meet and touchlots of people over and over
again until they know you, trustyou and like you and want to
work with you.
That is the thing you're tryingto get towards.
And if you perceive every timeyou go to work is I'm bothering

(27:35):
people, then like that mindsetis going to prevent you before
you even start, Like you'realready not going to win as far
as I'm concerned.
Because that's what you'rethinking every time you pick up
the phone.
You're not thinking I can helpthis person.
You're not thinking I have asolution that could help this
business.
You're not thinking I believein the product or service I'm
selling.
You're thinking I'm justcalling to irritate people.

(27:58):
That is a very long day.
If you define your own job asI'm irritating people all day
like you're probably not goingto win and you probably aren't
going to stay there that long.
Right, and I genuinely thinklike that's why when people sell
a product or a service thatthey believe in or they believe
they can help somebody betterthan their competitors, they are

(28:19):
far more likely to succeed, fora number of reasons.
One they're more convincing.
Two human beings are the bestlie detectors.
We can snuff out and smell BS,whether that person realizes
they're doing it or not.
You can hear and feel whethersomebody is being genuine,
because your entire life you dothat, and that comes through the
phone.
It comes when you see somebodyin person.

(28:39):
So you're not going to workwith that person.
You're not going to do businesswith a doctor that's like oh
well, come in, I'll see what Ican do.
I'm not really sure, but maybewe'll be able to find out what's
wrong with you.
You're probably going to calland schedule an appointment with
someone else, right?
It doesn't matter what that isDude.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
So I was telling you off air, like I just I just
traded my car and got a new carthis week and you know, like
anyone who's gone through thecar buying process, like you've
probably had a good experiencewith one kind of person and you
could sniff out the bad onesright away.
So like sales rep we workedwith her with my wife's car last
year, so and it's a friend of afriend that we've met so like

(29:17):
very smooth process, no bs, um.
But like I'm going to pick upthe car and gotta go talk to the
quote-unquote finance manager,aka the guy trying to sell you
the super expensive extendedwarranty, and like two seconds
into it I was like, oh my god,how do I get through this stupid
PowerPoint?

(29:38):
I mean, hey, if you sell carsor you're a finance manager out
there, so be it.
I have just, you know, I justtake care of my vehicles and I
have never, you know, the onetime that I ever bought a super
expensive extended warranty, Idid not get my money's worth and
I never did it again.
I've never had an issue.
So I just don't buy them.
Um, but he's going through thiswhole thing with me and um, I

(30:00):
was like look man, I was like Iappreciate it.
I said, but I'm, you know, I'mnot an extended warranty guy and
he's like okay, he's like wecan just skip that part then.
But it was like just the way hemade me feel it made it so
awkward and uncomfortable, umjust because like it comes
across self-interested.
Oh yeah, and it was like it wasalmost like it was a hidden

(30:21):
pitch, but I knew it was coming,because that's how it always is
when you buy a car.
He goes through like oh yeah,here you know, great, great
truck you got.
You know.
I'll just kind of show you someof like the expected
maintenance costs over the yearsand blah, blah, blah and um,
then slowly I'm like here it,here it comes, and then he
starts talking about theplatinum package.
And I was like you, son of abitch.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
What's funny is and it's a good one because I
remember the portion of mine andit's funny because I was just
telling you there's a screw inmy tire.
Right now my wife's literallygetting her the tire fixed on
our car and when the guy waspitching the wheel and tire
package it's a warranty right Toreplace wheel and tire damage
and the way he pitched it to mewas oh well, it's only 45 bucks

(31:05):
a month and it covers any ofyour tires and wheels for any
damage.
And, like, your wheels andtires are pretty expensive.
And I was like, yeah, thatsounds about right.
And then I said, well, hey, letme ask you how much is a rim
and how much is a tire right?
Said, well, hey, let me ask youhow much is a rim and how much
is a tire right?
And then he tells me what thenumber is and I was like, well,
how long is this term?
Well, it's three years.
And I just multiplied thatnumber times the three years

(31:27):
every month and I was like, well, that warranty costs as much as
replacing three wheels, right?
And he goes well, yeah, I'mlike I don't think I've ever
damaged one wheel, let alonethree, inside of three years.
Like I kind of feel like that'sprobably not going to work in
my favor.
And then he tried to convince methat, like, the 35 or 45 bucks

(31:48):
a month is such a low numberthat I should pay it anyway.
And that is somebody that'sself-interested, right.
But if he would have approachedme and said, hey, have you ever
had any wheel damage?
Have you ever hit any potholes?
And I may have, if I was one ofthose people that have done
that once or twice, he might belike, well, hey, it's a little
cheaper to just pay this alittle bit every month than to

(32:08):
end up with a $2,200 bill toreplace a rim and a tire.
Ok, now, that is something thatcould be valuable to me if I'm
in that category.
But when you approach it bytrying to convince me that $35
or whatever dollars a month isjust better than me waiting to
pay if something goes wrong.
You can tell that that guy'sjust trying to sell it to you to
make money.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Right, it's how you approach the situation 100%
Qualifying is what that is, bythe way.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Qualifying a prospect to see if they're in need of
the service that you can sellthem.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
So what this boils down to is it's like the way
that you're communicating andhow it comes across.
Like you and I have both readChris Voss's book Never Split
the Difference and I highlyrecommend it.
If you're in sales or you'rethinking about it, it's a great.
Even if you're not, it's agreat book, fbi Negotiator, and
it's all about communicating.
And you can get the samemessage across by tweaking some

(32:59):
of your words and it it'sreceived like the.
The context is still there, butit's received vastly different
depending on how you word it.
The tone of your voice, theinflections, all of that stuff,
the volume of your voice, um,your energy, all that.
And I think that, like, we'veall had we've all had like the

(33:19):
the rope, not the robo call,like the telemarketing call that
like is just so bad.
They're reading off a script,they sound like a robot and,
like you're, you're debatingyour head like am I rude if I
hang up right, because I don'twant to get to the end of their
pitch here?
And we've probably all had thatphone call where, like you
don't feel like you're beingsold to, but like you are

(33:40):
genuinely interested when whatthe person's like talking to you
about.
And that's the differencebetween someone who is, um,
really fine-tuned theircommunication, their ability to
build rapport on a phone call,versus someone who just says
what you know.
People ask us like do you guyshave a script?
It's like we don't want you touse a script for this exact
reason, but anyway, I digress.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
No, because I'm going to pull on that thread a minute
, but there's a guy worthlooking at on LinkedIn for
anybody.
His name is Josh Braun.
He actually lives right downthe street from me.
I didn't know this when I foundhim on LinkedIn.
Great sales coach, puts outgreat content on a lot of stuff
we're talking about Really gooddaily tips.
He has some products, too, Ithink, like flashcards and
things that help you like workon these skills that are really

(34:25):
effective.
I hadn't bought them recently,but I looked into them a few
years ago and really great stuffout there if you want to learn
more.
The other thing that I wasthinking of is there's like
those two really skill setswe're talking about.
Right, what is getting betterat communication?
Right, your communicationskills, which is not just what
you say, but how you say it.

(34:45):
Right, there's lots of studiesthat say, like 90% of
communication is not what you'reactually saying, it's how you
say it, whether it's yourmannerisms, it's your tone of
voice, it's your inflections,which is funny because remember
when we copied my voice on 11labs to see how AI would do like
it misses all the inflections,it misses all the tones of voice
.
Even though they're there,they're in the wrong place.

(35:06):
You feel that it is off, right,yep, you can't.
And then if you dig in, you cansee right, those are the things
that, like you, only, I feel,get better at it, pract, are at
it, practicing.
Like I was interviewing a fewpeople that had not been in
sales, that wanted a jobyesterday, and they're like well
, what is the first couple ofweeks?
Look like I'm like you just gotto keep falling off a bike Like

(35:26):
you've got to.
Just that's how you learn toride a bike.
It's not when it works, it'swhen you tip that you learn not
to do that again and little bylittle, you get a feel for how
to ride it.
It's the same with your verbalcommunication.
What is your inflection?
What kind of feedback do youget?
Because, like one of myfavorite things I learned from
my sales coach a long time agois like if you keep getting the
same objection, you are sayingsomething that is eliciting that

(35:49):
objection.
All communication is is a dance.
You're doing something, they'redoing something, and if you
keep getting the same responsealmost all the time, if you
record your call and listen towhat you said before that
objection, you said somethingthat piqued their guard that
made them go wait a minute andthen they came up with an
objection.
So when everybody, especiallynew salespeople go well, I keep

(36:11):
getting the same thing, this isjust too hard.
Or like nobody wants ourservice.
They never want to take theresponsibility to look at their
own behavior and then improve itbecause, like that is an
opportunity.
Getting the same objection overand over again is a good thing.
It's like missing a free throwto the left every time.
Okay, well, now I know Iconsistently miss to the left.
I got to move a little this way, right.

(36:32):
That is why I feel likepracticing this and making calls
is the only way to get betterat.
It is necessary and is how Ithink.
Secondly, reading books andcontent gives you better context
to understand how you're doingwhat you're doing.
It's not going to give you ablueprint to do this every time,
but it's going to give youfeedback.

(36:53):
So you know like oh, I keepdoing this, I keep hearing this.
Oh, this makes sense.
That book is saying that, like,I am probably doing something
like this, and then you changeyour tone a little bit every
time.
That's why, when you work in a,they call it like a bullpen or
in a sales pit.
They put all those peopletogether.
Why?
It's because you learn fromeach other.
You pick up what the personnext to you is saying, you hear

(37:15):
their tone of voice, you'revoice, like their openings a
little different and, withouteven realizing it, you just
start to try what they're doingand then you feel, if that works
, then you try the person to theright of you, Then you hear the
person over there, then you trya little bit of that and
eventually you come up with yourown personal mix of how you
communicate that fits you andyour personality, right, is, I
think, super important.

(37:36):
The other thing that I wanted tosay is like we learned I
probably I don't remember when Ilearned this, but it was
probably within a few years ofbeing married but my best friend
, who I grew up with and learnedsales with and who's still at
that company, right, like weused to use the sales techniques
on our fiances and wives, justcause, like it's a habit, right.
Like you do it all day at workfor eight or nine hours a day,

(37:59):
like we would do.
Like closes, you do likedifferent techniques that we
would learn and like what Inoticed was some arguments or
disagreements I would still lose.
But when I would replay to myhead, I'm like, no, like, if
that was a sales call, like Ihit the inflections, I had the
body language, I'm like I didexactly what I would have done

(38:21):
and that would have worked nineout of 10 times, right.
And then I realized I'm like,what was different about it with
my wife than in the sales callis she knows me better and she
can feel my feelings better thana person that I don't know as
well.
And then I realized that thesolution wasn't just how I was
delivering the message, but itwas how I felt and what I

(38:45):
believed.
And when I shifted how my intentwas not just how I was saying
what I was saying wecommunicated more effectively
and there was less disagreementsbecause I'm like, oh, I'm
saying this and I'm selling theshit out of it, but she isn't
buying it at all and she's stillmad.
And then I realized, like, whenI thought about my thoughts that

(39:05):
were underneath what I wassaying, I was like, oh, I didn't
believe that at all, like I wasjust saying that to make them
feel better.
Right, I tried to sell the shitout of it, but I didn't believe
it.
And then, when I shifted mybelief to believing what I was
saying, like there was no moredisconnect, and she could feel
that disconnect.
And it was like this greatlearning feedback where I'm like

(39:25):
, oh my God, I get to practicethis every day with honestly
higher stakes and morerepetition.
That made me realize how muchyour mindset matters in this
context of sale and everythingyou do.
But when you realize there'slots of places to practice this
in your daily life we talk about, like cashiers you talk to a
bartender, a waitress,interactions every day, a caddy

(39:47):
at a golf course, whereveryou're at like, there's plenty
of ways to develop this skillwhen you realize it's the same
skill you're using everywhereelse in your life.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
So you actually just brought up two things I think
were great the cashier one andthe caddy one, because these are
literally two that I've done inthe last week and I recommend I
mean not everyone's going tohave a caddy every week, but
like cashier gives you a reallygood like the two minute
conversation, right, the shortlike real quick service level,
but you're building some rapportconversation.

(40:18):
The caddy one um much longer,like I when we golfed last week
you were required for the group,Right, so it was like four or
five hours so we start off andit was, like you know, this
kid's 24 years old.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
We're like we don't really know and like it's kind
of like a strange, just like asales call by the end of it.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Ben, we had this dude teeing off with us on the 17th
and 18th.
He's always like they justcan't see me when we get up by
the clubhouse, but we were ableto build rapport.
We learned all about hisbackground and what he wants to
do with his life and with golfand all this stuff and it's like
there's probably a he told ustoo.
He's like you guys are awesome.

(40:57):
He's like there are people thatwill come out here and they,
you know they don't want me todo anything except for read
their putts for them and thenthey'll yell at me if I, if they
didn't make the putt, and blah,blah, blah.
And it's like that's the umself-serving version versus the.
That's great, the opposite,right.
So two different experiences.

(41:21):
Um, but yeah, like.
But back to like the.
Because you're gonna have,you're gonna have your short
phone conversations.
That's your, you know, do thereps by talking to 7-eleven when
you're checking out with yourmonster gatorade, whatever.
Or if you're at your you know,publics or grocery store,
whatever you, wherever you shop,for two minutes.
Um, if you're, uh, your longerconversations, maybe it's a
meeting with, with a panel or aboard member, or it's an

(41:41):
in-person visit or whatever,because those conversations are
very, very, very different.
We actually had someonecommented on YouTube saying,
like for a topic idea was likehow about the do's and don'ts of
an in-person customer visit?
Because, like, they're verydifferent than a phone call,
because you're there for a lotlonger, you're probably going to
have time to start talkingabout things on a personal level

(42:01):
that you never had the chanceto before and like dig deep into
them and there's definitelysome some, some areas to avoid
or maybe lean into to help buildrapport.
But yeah, the practice and allthis is like, I think, a huge
reason why people don't do goodat it, because they don't know
where their weaknesses are,they're not getting that
feedback, they're not puttingthe reps in and they just kind

(42:23):
of stay like at a plateau.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Here's the other question.
We get a lot right.
There's like graphs that willshow this.
You can look up places thatit's like hey, as your knowledge
grows up, goes up as you do ajob, longer your confidence
increases, and then you can sellmore because you have more
confidence, because you've donethis more, you believe you can
do it.
So that comes across whenyou're selling Right, and I

(42:46):
think that is true.
But the common question we getis I'm new, I don't know how to
do everything yet.
I don't feel confident inmyself.
How am I supposed to sell Right?
And I think that's a greatquestion, right?
And I think the short answer isyou don't have to know
everything to be confident inyour ability to work harder than

(43:08):
your competition, and I thinkthat is more important than
knowing everything and beinglazy.
Just leave it at that.
Right, Because if you arepicking up the phone and calling
somebody, and I don't care ifyou've never moved a load before
, but you believe that you arewilling to do more to help this
customer than anybody elsethat's working with them.
That confidence is sufficientto get them to work with you,

(43:31):
and most people will appreciatethat.
If you're even honest, likelook, hey, just been in the
industry a little bit, but I canassure you that I will be
available 24-7 if you call meand you need anything.
I will work harder than anybodyelse you're currently working
with to find you what you need,to make sure you're getting what
I tell you you're getting, andI will be the first person to
tell you.
If there's a mistake or I can't, I will be honest, direct and

(43:54):
upfront with you.
If that's the case, right, thatis confidence without knowledge
, and that, to me, is way morevaluable than the person that
has done this 10 years but istoo lazy to work as hard as the
person next to them.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I remember one of my first actually it was my first
sales job ever was at Best Buyselling.
I started in home theater solike TVs and stuff like that and
shadowed for like the firstweek listening to how the the
guys on the floor would liketalk to customers and answer

(44:26):
questions and pitch certainthings.
And I remember like after aweek the guy that was training
was like he's like, nate, he'slike he's like you're ready,
let's take, you're going to takethis next guy.
And I was like I'm not readyyet.
He's like you're ready.
He's like just remember, youdon't have to know everything,
you just have to be confidentthat you can get them an answer
and you know, just know thequestions to ask and whatever
you don't know, like we'll beable to help you out.

(44:51):
So he just kind of like threwme starting point and was within
like and we weren'tcommissioned based at Best Buy,
we did get like they did like aquarterly profit sharing based
on your store, I think.
But like within a month or so,like I remember, I put together
like this twenty five thousanddollar home theater deal for
this guy that just moved intoBuffalo from DC, like badass TV,

(45:14):
surround sound system andreceiver, top of the line, like
cabling and wireless, everything, and, like we did, the install,
calibration, all the warranties, like everything on it Right,
because the guy was just likeyou really seem to know what
you're talking about and likeyou know I trust you know, I
trust what you're telling me.
So I mean I didn't like screwhim out.

(45:35):
I think he set up with a sick,a sick setup for his house,
which is what he came in for.
But that was literally the.
In a period of like probablyfour or six weeks, I was able to
transition there from beingafraid to have my first
conversation with a customerthat's looking to buy a standard
TV to some dude that's got deeppockets trying to set up his
new house.
So, and you have to startsomewhere and, you know, make

(46:00):
the adjustments from there.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
That same line.
I still remember my mentor atmy first job I was working at a
bank and same thing.
Like we're going to go out andmeet customers, going to go
start talking to people on ourown, and I remember him sitting
me down and saying the samething.
He goes, listen, people willask you questions you don't know
the answer to.
He said first the worst thingyou can do is make some shit up,

(46:22):
Lie.
Yeah, the worst thing you cando is pretend like you know and
tell them something you don't.
Right, he's like I'm going togive you a line that will bail
you out of this in everyscenario.
That's a great question.
I want to make sure I give youaccurate information.
Let me go run that down, Let mego confirm that, Let me go
check on that and see, and I'llget right back to you and then

(46:45):
write it down.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yep, I had the same.
Like, literally, in themilitary they teach us the same
thing, like if you're giving abriefing and the boss asks you a
question you don't know theanswer to.
Don't lie, don't say I don'tknow, say basically I don't know
, but I will find out and getback to you.
So some variation of that.
The one other so I wanted to Idon't want to run out of time
here the one other thing Iwanted to hit on, at least

(47:08):
briefly and this applies to allum industries, but I'll hit on
freight specifically is um, ifyou don't understand your
environment, like your market orthe operating environment that
you're in and you're not stayingup to date with it, that can
get you into trouble too insales, especially if you're
brand new and you don't take aninterest in learning about it.
Let's say it's solar and youdon't know where.

(47:29):
Or you don't understand whatthe rebates are based on, where
you're located, if there's astate rebate or the federal
rebate, if it's selling housesand you don't understand the
mortgage interest rateenvironment.
Or if it's freight brokeringand you don't understand what
the spot market's like versuswhere's capacity tight.
What kind of regulations areimpacting us right now?
Where have storms impactedcertain parts of the state or

(47:54):
the country, right?
So not only does knowing thatstuff help you understand why
things are the way they are, ithelps you bring up conversations
and discussion points to makeyour conversations flow easier.
So like, if we know thatcapacity has been super tight
outbound in a certain city andyou're prospecting business
there, which is a great place toprospect and for a great reason

(48:16):
, that could be really yourdiscussion point.
Like, hey, I've been talking toa lot of folks who've having a
really tough time getting reefercapacity out of your area.
Like I've already laser focusedthe point of the conversation.
And you know it's not like it'sa magic line where it's every
single time they're gonna belike, yes, please find me a
truck, but at least like you'rehitting on a point that, or

(48:39):
you're hitting on an area of theconversation that is more
likely than not relevant to thatperson.
So, just generically speaking,you know, take an interest.
Like whether it's you know DAThas great market insights.
They have great reporting ontheir analytics tool.
You've got like newsletters,right, you've got our newsletter

(49:02):
Freight Waves.
You've got all Freight Caviar,whether or not they're
meme-based or all factual, justunderstanding what's going on
out there is going to bemassively important to help you
succeed.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
It reminds me, right?
I'll kind of end it with thisLike the things you shouldn't do
is start a cold call by tellingthem everything about you and
everything you can do withoutknowing anything about them,
right?
So like you get a cold call andsomebody's like hey, this is
Jimmy from HVAC service, we canhandle indoor, outdoor, we can
replace your units, we canservice your air ducts and we

(49:38):
can come out and clean them.
I wouldn't respond to that withhey, this is Ben Kowalski, I
work at a freight brokerage, wecan handle your FTL, ltl,
drayage and international.
And he's going to be like well,why is that relevant?
I'm going to be like I don'tknow.
Why is what you just told merelevant?
Right, like you don't knowanything about me, you're just
calling me, telling meeverything you can do, without
asking me whether or not any ofthese things matter to me right

(50:01):
now.
And it's like in any scenariothat sounds super awkward, like
if somebody just introducedhimself hey, I'm Nate the Baker
and we can make buns, rolls,this, and like, okay, but like,
I don't need bread right now,but I'm glad you can make cakes
and cupcakes.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Yeah, we had a guy used to work with it.
It was funny because the restof us, when we would hear him do
this, we would all like look ateach other and chuckle.
He would go through and givethis like spiel of the history
of the company and we're alllike we've been in business
Nobody cares what year we werefounded in, but like again, like
giving them the feedback on it,he probably never would have

(50:39):
adjusted course, but yeah soanyway, family and business.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
We've been in business for 40 years and well.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
So I will tell you this like there is a time and
place to go through some of that, some of those details, but not
right off the off the pitch.
So like, for example, when itcomes to like it like appears,
we're agent based pitch.
So like, for example, when itcomes to like like at Pierce,
we're agent based.
So like, a big part of what wedeal with is people that are,
you know, considering coming toour company right Like, so we

(51:06):
have to vet these people out andthen, a lot of times, you have
to like make them feelcomfortable that hey, we're
actually a great company topartner with.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
You're addressing a risk, you're preempting an
objection.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I might be worried that Pierce is a fly by night
agent program, that if I bringmy customers over, you guys are
going to disappear in a year anda half.
Right, that's the risk thatyou're going to address.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
So so, when somebody reaches out and wants to talk
about, like, hey, well, you knowwhat's it like to, what would
it look like to come over toyour company, I usually start
off and this is, you know, youcan tweak this however you want
and it's gonna sound differentwhen you're selling to a
customer or a shipper.
But I'm usually like, hey, whatmade you decide to reach out?
Right, like very basic.
It's not like, hey, thanks forreaching out.

(51:47):
Our company was founded in 1981.
But when we get further into aconversation and this will apply
to your, you know, selling froma brokerage to a shipper is, if
they're, if they're showingsigns that like, hey, I, you
know, I want stability.
Like stability is important tome in a relationship.
Look, we, we've been doing thisfor, you know, 30 years now.

(52:09):
We know what works, we knowwhat doesn't work.
And that can apply when you'reselling to a shipper, right,
when you're selling to a shipper, right.
And they're like, if, ifthey're worried that, like
you're going to go out ofbusiness, not pay a carrier, and
then that carrier is going toend up coming back to them
looking for a freight bill to bepaid, like, even like TQL,
right, we've been around 25, Idon't know how many years TQL
has been around.

(52:29):
I'm like we've been around along time.
We're a very large company.
We've got a lot depth acrossthe board.
So it's you don't start offwith that but it's a, it's a
reassurance to somebody ifyou're sensing that that's a
potential fear of theirs.
So, but yeah, I guess you couldalso sum that up with know when
to say certain things and whennot to say certain things.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
So yeah, and it's like you can sum that up with
that other cliche it's like Godgave you two ears and one mouth.
Use them proportionately, right, like you should be listening
twice as much as you're talking,and not listening to respond,
but listening to understand.
Right, and they're verydifferent.
When you're just sitting therethinking about the next thing
you're going to say whilesomeone else is talking, you're

(53:11):
listening to respond.
When you're listening tounderstand what you're
communicating to me, then I canrespond with something that is
relevant to the thing you'rethinking of.
Right, it really is.
Otherwise, like you're notreally communicating, you're
just talking at each other.
Right, you might as well behaving a monologue by yourself
at somebody else giving anotherspeech, and then at the end you

(53:32):
both walk away, not learninganything about the other person.
Like that is not sales, that'snot even communication, a
hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
All right, well, cool , good episode.
We got into some good, somegood points there.
Hopefully you guys can get somegood takeaways.
Let us know what you think inthe comments or review, or send
us a message and let us knowsome future topics that you'd
like us to talk about.
But, ben, any final thoughtshere?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Whether you believe you can or believe you can't,
you're right no-transcript.