Creating Happy Athletes: A Sustainable World of Youth Sports

Episode Transcript
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Vai Kumar (00:00):
Today's youth sports experience provokes countless
questions for the wellintentioned parents.
To borrow a few lines from mynext guest's most recently
launched book "Unaware of anyformula to mastery, but
determined to see one of hischildren succeed, immanuel

(00:21):
Agassi put a plan in place tocreate a tennis prodigy.
Legend has it that he actuallytaped a ping-pong paddle to
Andres hand while he lay in thecrib.
In 1977, when Andres was 7years old, the ball machine,
nicknamed the dragon by his dad,had become abject horror to the

(00:46):
young boy.
Nothing sense my father into arage like hitting a ball into
the net.
He wrote in his best sellerOpen, an autobiography.
So whose dream is it anyway?
Is it parents or is it theactual athlete themselves?
Let's find out more from ournext guest, kirsten Jones, on

(01:11):
how we can create a sustainablefuture in athletics.
Her book Racing EmpoweredAthletes is a wonderful read and
I sincerely recommend each oneof you grab a copy as soon as
possible so you can create abetter future for your athlete.

(01:41):
Welcome to Freshleaf Forever, apodcast that gives you
fascinating insights week afterweek.
Here's your host, vaikumar.
Hey folks, welcome to anotherepisode on Podcast Freshleaf
Forever.
Today I am thrilled to havehere with us Kirsten Jones.
She is a hall of fame D1volleyball player from William

(02:05):
Mary in Virginia and a 15-yearNike executive.
She is now a motivationalspeaker, writer and peak
performance coach.
Her clients include teenathletes and their parents, whom
she helps learn to reach theirgoals and release their
limitations.
Kirsten is yet another podcasthost.

(02:26):
Like me, she co-hosts theRaising Athletes podcast with
Susie Walton on iTunes and isthe author of a fantastic book
which we see in the backdropthere Raising Empowered Athletes
.
I couldn't be more happierhaving anyone that has written
anything about athletics,especially empowerment, on the

(02:48):
show with me here.
Hey, kirsten, welcome to theshow.
It's with great joy that I amjust having you here to talk
about this journey of yours.

Kirsten Jones (02:59):
This is going to be wonderful from one sports
parent to another and I know allthe ones listening in between
and, in fact, even if you aren'tthe parent of a sports athlete,
take out athlete, put inscientist, take out athlete, put
in artist.
We're all trying to raise goodkids, so thank you for having me
and I'm excited to dive in.

Vai Kumar (03:20):
Absolutely, and your journey and folks, please stay
on and listen through thisentire conversation.
It's going to be fascinating, Ipromise, and actionable
insights, as always, and Kirsten, I know, has something neat and
nice to offer at the very endfor listeners of the show as

(03:40):
well.
So just wanted to throw it upfront out there.
And your journey, kirsten.
From your times growing up, Iguess you and I perhaps are like
very comparable generation toraising three kids playing
collegiate sports, and I haveone playing collegiate sport as
well, my only one.

(04:02):
So how do you think thatjourney has been in terms of all
the transformation that youhave seen?
Because playtime, I thought,was supposed to be fun, right?

Right, yeah, so you know, I grew up in the 70s
and 80s, probably like you, andwe just went outside and played
and our parents couldn't careless if we were going to play a
sport in high school, much lesscollege, and it was just an
enjoyable time to learn and growand you made up your own rules
and you figured it out and ifeventually you made it onto a

(04:35):
team, wonderful, and yourparents came into some of the
games and didn't come to theothers.
I was lucky enough to be ableto play volleyball in college,
as you mentioned.
First I started actually at SanDiego State and then
transferred to William Mary andan amazing experience there, and
then moved to Eastern Europeafter graduating with my
Japanese degree of all thingsand so much.

(04:56):
Yeah, I ended up living inJapan a bit, but realizing being
six feet tall in Milan wasn'tgoing to work out for me.
So I moved to Eastern Europeand it was over there that I
found Nike and it made sense forme because I was an athlete you
know, grown up an athlete andso to get to work with and
around and for athletes wasamazing, and so for nearly 15

(05:18):
years doing that and my favoritejob at Nike was.
I was actually a kind of a.
It was like an internal MBAthat we had with everybody from,
you know, low level executivesall the way to senior management
, where we learned from eachother about what does it take to
be a great athlete and whatdoes it take to create great
product.

(05:38):
It was under the footwearbusiness, the footwear side of
the business.
So I loved that job and when Icame out of that is when I, you
know, kind of realized oh, thisis something I would like to
help others understand, becausenow I had three kids and as I
got to, you know you get thebook when you, as soon as you
get pregnant, you're like whatto expect when you're expecting?

(06:01):
And every mother thinks this isthe best thing ever because she
can read month by month, weekby week, exactly how her little
baby is developing.
And then, three or four yearslater, you get to the sidelines
of kick and chase or your firsttennis events and you're like
who are these people?
They're all asking you knowwhen you're going to get the

(06:22):
private coach, right, you'regoing to go on the tour, right,
you're not going to just do thiswreck thing, right, you're
going to be doing, you know, thebigger, better thing.
And even as a former D1 athlete,even as a person who had worked
around the top athletes in theworld, I too started getting
this FOMO, this fear of missingout of.
Am I doing it wrong?
And I looked around for thebook that said how am I supposed

(06:45):
to navigate this youth sportsparenting jungle?
You know, it's a twenty billiondollar industry now.
It's larger than the NFL.
So we parents are all buyinginto it, right?
We're all trying to keep upwith the Joneses, whoever they
are, and trying to help our kids, because we're all wanting to

(07:07):
raise again good kids, goodpeople.
And so this book is writtenfrom that perspective, which is
I'm not, I don't have a PhD inthis, you know, but I do have
the experience of having livedit as an athlete and now having,
you know, raised three athletesmyself and now my coaching
practice is working withathletes and their parents to

(07:27):
help them again.
We all have limiting beliefshelp them release their
limitations and and love whatthey're doing.

Vai Kumar (07:34):
So fantastic and great analogy there with what to
expect when you're expecting.
So, like the pregnancy book,you know 101 on what to what to
do.
You know this is a great primer, I should say, for anyone in
the athletic journey and, yeah,even in the course of being on

(07:56):
the sidelines we all tend tobecome those coaches right for
our children.
So writing a book, that's thebest thing, because we all have
so much to offer.
And, speaking developmentally,what's a good rule of thumb in
terms of, say, someone wondering, hey, what is the right age for
me to just kind of expose mychild to a sport, or is it even

(08:20):
one sport that they should benot giving?

And that is, that's the first thing that
happens.
You get that you know.
You get a three year old or afour year old, even who you know
.
Perhaps you played at somelevel of soccer or baseball or
softball or tennis and you think, oh, let's expose them to it.
And I say absolutely, startthem young and play as many as
you possibly can get your handson, let them.
I don't believe in specializingbefore the age of maybe 13 or

(08:46):
14, because their brains andtheir bodies are developing and
exposure to as many things and,by the way, to music as well,
like what we know is theirbrains are so absorbent and
they're learning it 10 times thepace we adults can learn.
So exposing them to languageand to music and to art, and

(09:06):
then yes, to a variety of sports, starting at whatever age,
feels comfortable for yourfamily, like that's, it has to
fit in with your lifestyle.
But my rule of thumb withsigning your kid up for a sport
is you sign them up for a season, assuming everything you know
coaching staff is good and allof that the only rule is you
have to finish the season and bythe end of the season if they

(09:28):
don't like it, you know what Idon't really like.
You know soccer.
Okay, great, and they, they'reallowed to pivot.
And now you?
Just the biggest question isokay, what else do you want to
try?
It's not that we're not goingto do anything, it's just we're
going to try this for a whileand if we don't like it, that's
fine, we can try something else.
But before age 13, I say thereare really three major F's that

(09:51):
you should focus on friends, funand fundamentals.
It's not about running complexoffenses.
It's not about getting onto thetop team.
It's not about going to Swedenthis summer.
It's about are we having fun?
Are we learning something new?
We're learning the fundamentalsand are we making friends,

(10:15):
because that's when the kids aregoing to start hardwiring that
and that this is fun.
I want to keep doing this, andthe most successful athletes
that you see all the way throughthe pros there yes, there's
money involved, but they're notplaying for the paycheck.
Most of them really love whatthey do and that's how they.
That's how it becomessustainable.

Vai Kumar (10:35):
Oh, it's their underlying passion, right?
Because a lot of them we seeathletes that have called
retirement and then you see themafter a while coming back
because it's like it's too muchfor them to be on the sidelines,
you know, commentating or orjust watching others compete.
It's that inner drive andpassion, that fire that they
have and beautifully pointed outthere again, the physical,

(10:59):
emotional and the athletic side.
If we were to look at all thosecomponents in a multi sport
athlete, what are the benefitsand hindrances that you see,
kirsten, because you don't wantto do too much of anything
either, right, we just don'twant to kind of force kids back

(11:23):
to back on like, hey, okay, weare running from one thing to
the other, although their brainis wired to accept all that they
can absorb at that age.
How, then, do we focus on thisaspect of doing it right?

So yeah, these days rec youth sports is, as I
like to joke, 13 months a year.
There is no break and they'reburning out.
You have the benefits ofplaying multiple sports is
avoiding burnout.
Again, I've seen a lot ofathletes who get to be really,
really good and I wrote about itin the book.

(12:00):
There's a story of a golfer whohe got to be very good.
In fact he really hit thepinnacle.
He got the full ridescholarship to Stanford.
His parents thought they wonthe lottery.
He's going to go golf at one ofthe most prestigious
universities in the world.
He came to them a couple ofweeks before he's supposed to go
and he said I'm not going toStanford and I'm never golfing

(12:21):
again.
His parents were mortifiedbecause all they had done was
support his journey.
They weren't those helicopterparents pushing, pushing,
pushing, but they had been justsince age five, taken to the
driving range, getting on thejunior tour, supporting,
supporting, until he got to thepoint where he was like I've
been a pro for 15 years and I'monly 18 years old.

(12:43):
I don't know what it's like tonot have this in my life.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying if your kidshows proclivity for it and
passion for it.
Don't do it.
I'm saying they can't managethat for themselves.
That's our role as the parentis to help modify that when

(13:04):
needed.
That can't be the only thingthat they're doing 12 months a
year because they can't monitorthat.
You need to help.
One summer I had we went onvacation.
We were going to Jackson Holeand going white water rafting.
My oldest one, who only wantedto be in Las Vegas at the
basketball tournament, sat onthe back of the raft and pouted.
You don't find I don't care,pout away, but we're going to

(13:29):
make other memories.
We're not only going to go toevery basketball event that is
offered.
When I asked him about it nowhe's like I did.
He doesn't even remember how hebehaved because at the time it
was just that was what wasimportant to him.
But giving them the opportunityto try multiple sports helps.
Like you said lack of overuse,injuries they become better

(13:52):
athletes.
Over 80 percent of Division Ifootball players the best
Division I football playersthey've shown played multiple
sports.
We can train.
If you're a good athlete, acoach.
When they get to the recruitinglevel, parents get really
nervous and we're not winning.
The coach is going to belooking at whether they're
winning or not.
No, they're not.

(14:13):
They're looking at how wellyour kid moves.
They're looking at whetherthey're a good teammate.
They're looking at if you'repicking up the water bottles, if
you're high-fiving yourteammate, if you're sitting
slumped over in a heap when youlost.
They're looking at bodylanguage and attitude and all of
that.
So it's so much more than justhow hard you can hit the ball or

(14:36):
how many kills you have orwhatever stat you're trying to
go for.
They're looking at that wholepackage and in order to do that,
we've got to help them temperthat whole process, because it's
a marathon, not a sprint, andwe treat it like a sprint.

Vai Kumar (14:53):
Totally, totally in line with your thought.
There's some marathon, for sure.
And yeah, how many summers?
It's a question of, hey, youknow what happens if I miss that
tournament in Macon versus hey,do I just go on a vacation for
like five nights?
Right, and it's funny.
You said how your son felt andmy daughter asked us six months

(15:16):
ago.
She was like laughing about it,saying hey, so when I was like
nine years old and you needed usfor something and dad and I
were at a tournament, gosh, whatall did we do for the sake of
this tennis?
Not that she doesn't care aboutthe sport.
She's so passionate about itand there are times when she's

(15:40):
even on a break or on like safefoes to break, because of some
recuperation time period,whatever it may be, from like
any injury that she may havesustained.
She is desperate to go back andhit tennis balls, trust me.
But on the same token, I thinkit's a balance right, Pressure
versus support.
So you outlined thatbeautifully in your book again.

(16:03):
So why don't we have you talkabout the need for periodic
check-ins to assess the funelement and the passion, versus
doing it out of compulsion,Kirsten?

Yeah, one of my chapters I think it's chapter
two is whose dream is it?
And what you do see, anddefinitely in my experience, the
higher the level of the athlete, the parent was as an athlete,
the more they lean back, themore they.
Okay, if they wanna do it,we'll let them do it.
And what I see is a lot ofparents who never competed don't

(16:38):
understand it, not sure whatit's about.
So it's not out of ill will, Idon't think anybody parents out
of trying to screw up my kid.
But what they don't understandis it's gotta be intrinsically
motivated and helping them.
If they've got that fire,manage that again.
Give them time off.
That's another one of theoutcomes, I think, a lot of

(17:00):
sports, what sports teaches usis the discipline and the
understanding of how the worldworks, and even part of that is
self-regulating.
How much I'm gonna do so that Ican again pace myself?
I have a client right now whois getting heavily recruited in
D-Women Soccer and she's the momsaid that we were on vacation

(17:21):
last week for a whole week in acabin and the whole time the
only thing she was saying is I'mgonna get behind, I'm gonna get
out of shape, I'm gonna not beable to play, I'm not gonna get
recruited.
But to this point where youcan't even go out, take five
days off because your self-talkis I'm gonna get so far behind,
I'll never play Like.
That's not healthy, right?

(17:43):
That's just not good for ourkids.

Vai Kumar (17:45):
Yeah, yeah seems like a familiar conversation because
I'm sure you have heard it atsome point.
I've heard it at some point.
That's where the moderationaspect comes in right.
We just need to let them seethe positive, not just keep
saying, hey, you know what,that's true, you ought to have
hit 10,000 more tennis balls orgo practice several more hoops

(18:08):
on the basketball court.
And there's this book toward ageneral theory of expertise
where there's this thought that10,000 hours of practice makes
you good in anything.
Right, and yes, I'm very awareof it, having heard about it in
the past.
And you again bring that up inyour book.

(18:29):
And it's so good that I happento chance upon your book and
read it upfront and thank youfor letting me be a part of it.
But it's just interesting howthe theory is not necessarily so
true to be generalized withevery sport right.
So right there we contribute tooveruse.

Yes, and it really got twisted.
It was some research that hadbeen done I think it was in the
60s and then Malcolm Gladwellreported on it in his book a
tipping point.
And when he did that, then thatbecame like ooh, it's gospel,
this is how I'm gonna reach thepinnacle, in fact, to the point
where one guy decided an adultdecided I'm gonna test this

(19:18):
theory, I'm gonna take up golf,I'm gonna play 10,000 hours of
golf and I'm gonna be a progolfer.
And of course, the answer isit's not about time, it's about
dedicated, disciplinedrepetition too.
It's not just about spendingthe time, the hours and the
amount of time done.
And what they've also found isfor piano, it may only take

(19:41):
4,000 hours, and for tennis, itmay take 6,000 hours.
It depends on the sport, itdepends on your interest and
your ability to learn.
It depends on a lot ofdifferent factors.
But of course, as we're raisingathletes, if that's the only
goal, the burnout factor again,maybe have the next Tiger Woods
on your hands.
But if they hate the sport bythe time they hit anywhere near

(20:04):
those hours, does it matter?

Vai Kumar (20:07):
Yeah, you clearly pointed out that kid who was so
good and got a D1 offer toStanford didn't really take it
up, ultimately just days beforeit was supposed to go through,
or happen like days before hewas supposed to be at college.
So it's a matter of allowingkids to learn and grow and not

(20:29):
short circuit their chances ofsuccess.
So what else are we missingwhen it comes to this piece of
puzzle, kristen?
How else, as parents, can wemake sure that we are doing this
right, say, nutritionally andphysical rest and several things
right?
There's several components toit.

(20:50):
So what else would you just say?
Or like factors, because I'mjust trying to channel this
discussion in terms of how wehandle as a parent and then
we'll move further on.
So there's several parts tothis conversation as I see it.
So what else would you say froma parent's angle that we should

(21:11):
be doing?
So the athlete is not pressured.
The athlete has all theresources and support that they
have.

I think some of the best parenting advice I've
ever heard that I really took toheart was have 91 minute
conversations with your child.
Not one 90 minute conversation,and so by that, of course, just
a metaphor.
But the checking in are youstill loving this Like gosh?

(21:39):
You remember at five and youjust love to hit the tennis ball
.
Is this still your passion?
And at 13 it may be, and at 15it may be.
I also have a story in the bookof a woman I met, actually at
Target.
I was checking out with myumbrella because it was raining
sideways and I was going towatch my son play soccer.
And the checkout woman said, ohyeah, I remember with those

(22:01):
soccer days.
And I said, oh, did you do that?
For a long time.
She said, yep, I did that allthe way through my son's senior
year and finally I said to himgosh, did you just enjoy?
You know, aren't you sad thatsoccer is over?
And he said, gosh, mom, Ihaven't really liked soccer for
like four years, but I didn'twant to quit because I knew it
made you happy.
Oh, my, so are they doing it?

(22:23):
Because they feel like, oh, Ineed to do this to make mom
happy or dad happy, or theystill in love with the process.
And if they're in love with theprocess, then again that's what
we're looking for and ifthey're not, that's okay, we'll
find something else.
But to your point about what arethe things from their side that
we need to be focused on?
We know in brain developmentand adolescence the frontal lobe

(22:48):
is wide open for women intotheir early 20s, for men all the
way into mid to late 20s, 25,26, 27.
So what does that mean when thefrontal lobe is on online?
The decision making, theunderstanding of what
consequences are down the road,the understanding of how to stay

(23:08):
to stick with things Like?
There's a lot of things that weget frustrated with our kids
because they don't remember topick up their socks, or they
left their keys, or they theydid something what we would
consider silly or stupid, butthe brain hasn't caught up.
It starts at the back of thehead and it grows.
The connection to the corpuscallosum grows as they get older

(23:30):
, not to your mid 20s.
So a lot of what we're teachingin sports is just helping that
brain development and when wefocus on that and not get mad at
the whatever.
You left your cleats at home.
And now we're five hours awayfrom home and you don't have
them to play at your soccer game.
True story, right?
Like happens all the time,right, but how do we stay in the

(23:54):
moment to be like, oh okay, sohow can we pivot and put it on
them?
So now, what would you do?
Well, is the Dick's SportingGoods open?
Can we go buy a pair of cleats?
Right, can you borrow a pair?
What are we gonna do?
But those are the lessons thatthey're gonna get out of it.
Probably won't remember thescore of the game that day,

(24:15):
quite honestly, but there we go.
Remember that one day when mom,we got all the way to
Pittsburgh and I didn't have mycleats and we had to run to the
Dick's Sporting Goods, and we'restanding at the door until it
opened, right, those are thelessons that are gonna help us
and help them learn about life.

Vai Kumar (24:32):
And it's really interesting.
You pointed out thatconversation at checkout at
Target, right?
Yeah, a lot of times it's not,that kids yeah, they form their
opinions thinking oh, am I goingto disappoint my parent by not
doing this, by doing this someother way or whatever it may be.
Right, there is a red flag,right?

(24:55):
So for us to have that openconversations and the need for
us to kind of exchange thoughtsand views, be it at the dinner
table or whatever it may be, orin that car ride, to practice,
just throw in some subtle hintsor subtle questions in there.
That will just prompt them tokind of open up to you and talk

(25:16):
all about it.
Right, and I guess it's aquestion of, okay, making them
understand that I'm in yourcorner, not like I'm forcing you
to do this.
This is not anything.
Yes, I love to watch you play,I love to watch you compete.
So I guess the magic six words,right?

Yes, the only six words they need to hear us say
are I love to watch you play.
Everything about that matchdoctor, it was too hot, or that
coach was bad, or whateverplaying time or whatever is not
relevant and it's not helpful.
And then, in speaking of thelarger picture, I think one of
the best tools you can do andwhat I mean by leaning back is

(26:01):
to say gosh, you just don't seemas into it anymore as you are.
Is something going on?
It's asking better questions?
And even though we are soinvested no, I've spent all this
money and we've given up thisvacation and we're.
You know she's got the fullride or she's got a partial ride
, or this coach is interested inher.
We get so invested in it thatwe're not allowing for any space

(26:24):
to be between the the you knowher opportunity and what's going
on in her mind.
And when we say, gosh, if thisisn't your thing, you know if
you'd rather pivot away fromthis.
All they want to know is I amenough.
And the only thing your childcares is that you value them for

(26:46):
who they are, not what they canbecome.
And I like to say parent thechild you have, not the one you
wish you had.
Of course, it's easy to standon the sidelines and see the all
American or the Hall of Fame orthe whatever, and it's oh,
wouldn't that be great, wouldn'tthat be nice if my kid was that
good.
But there, everybody has a gift.

(27:07):
Every single human being, Ibelieve, is here for a reason.
It may not be on that soccerpitch or tennis court or
volleyball court, but somethingthey may learn from that process
, from being an athlete, Iguarantee you will ignite for
them a dream that does take themdown the path that they're

(27:28):
meant to be on.

Vai Kumar (27:29):
A lot of life lessons there.
And, yeah, very well said asfar as the interest commitment,
everything that you know.
Both sides need to kind of showwhat about nutrition and its
importance.

So at that age they don't see consequences
right.
And kids metabolisms are fast,they're still growing, they heal
much faster.
So what we are seeing is a lotmore overuse injuries.
So nutrition has become thatmuch more important.
Hydration most of us aredehydrated to the point that
then you can't even tell ifyou're hungry or tired or what.
Stand there.

(28:07):
She threw Lisa Lewis's greatbook on sleep, the sleep
deprived team.
You know she talked about theStanford study and I mentioned
it in my book as well.
When they had the Stanfordmen's basketball team.
Just try to sleep eight hours anight.
They did a free throwexperiment with them.
So, shooting with lack of sleep, how many do you make?

(28:27):
Shooting with having slept justeight to nine hours,
everybody's percentagesincreased by 10%.
Like that's huge right.
Just even thinking about makingthe shot and then actually
practicing the shot, and thenadding sleep to that, sleep is a
superpower and I think it'svery underrated.

(28:48):
And unfortunately, with cellphones being in everybody's hand
24, seven and the kids aresleeping on them or with them
and waking up and scrolling andgoing to bed, scrolling sleep is
going by the wayside.
And when you are exhausted youdon't make good decisions.
Like it nobody does.
And if you're not, if you'reputting, you know, all the crap
in your body of fast food andjunk food and sugar all the time

(29:12):
, it's just the compoundingeffect in a negative way around
performance.
So I'm actually doing thatexercise with my oldest.
He's just graduated college buthe's got another year to play
at a grad school and he wasn'tfeeling well.
I said, well, let's stripeverything away, get off of
sugar, get off of the caffeine,get off of things that aren't

(29:35):
helping your brain, and give meeight to 10 hours of sleep at
night and let's talk in a week.

Vai Kumar (29:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's very important for us to kind of
role model, like you talk aboutin the book again, as to what
habits you know we demonstrate.
That's what is going to kind ofsit with them, gel with them,
more than just preaching.
So you practice what you preachand that really helps them.

They're listening to almost nothing of what we
say, or we.
It feels that way.
Yeah, they're listening towhatever.
They're, of course, takinglittle notes and they'll
regurgitate it back to you later.
So they are listening, evenwhen you know sometimes you get
the eye roll and they're walkingout when you're still talking
to them.
They're paying attention, buteven more they're watching us,

(30:23):
you know.
Are you getting good sleep?
Are you reading?
Are you trying new things?
Are you failing at new things?
Do you have dinner table or carrides where you go?
Wow, they tried this and itjust didn't go well.
Oh, that was interesting.
You know, I went to Dallas acouple of months ago to do a
speaking event and nobody showedup.
Wow, that was crazy, right?

(30:43):
So what am I going to do, mom?
How are you going to respond tothat?
Are you going to do another one, or are you going to be in the
fetal position, because I don'tfeel very valued by my coach
right now?
Huh, that sucks.
I get it Right.
They're looking for empathy,not sympathy, and empathy means
listening, asking good questionsand listening, and not trying

(31:08):
to fix it for them, and that'swhat we do.
Oh, I know the answer.
Oh, I'm going to tell them whatto do, and it's hard because
you've been through it, so youfeel like I've got the manual, I
can give them the best answer.
But until we humans go throughit and learn from it ourselves,
it just doesn't compute.
It doesn't sink in.

Vai Kumar (31:29):
So it's very important for us to just not be
that helicopter parent or snowflower parent that you talk
about all these thingswonderfully in the book, and
just be of support, make themrealize that we are there for
them, but on the same token,just not be unduly in their way

(31:50):
in terms of them developingthemselves and helping them face
the world Correct.

And it goes beyond sports.
Right, I mean, I wrote about itin the book too the college
cheating scandal.
It's the same issue parentsfeeling not enough or wanting
their kid to get into whateveryou name the school.
And if you start doing thingsfor them and taking over for
whether it's, you know, rescuingfor the shoes, or rescuing for
the homework, or rescuing forthe application to college it's

(32:20):
partnering with them anddemonstrating and then allowing
them to do it and allowing themto learn from it.
And it's hard, it's really hard.

Vai Kumar (32:29):
Yeah, I mean, raising them to be good people is very
important.
I guess the undue pressure thatwe put on them contributes to
them making bad line calls andcheating.
And so what are we?
You know, what values are wejust modeling for our children?
Right, they are just at the endof the day, you want them to be
better people, not like, knownfor their legacy, has to line

(32:51):
what they do with their sportand, most importantly, not just
with the sport, but what kind ofa person they are.
Right, that's what you wantthem to be remembered for and
appreciated for.
Mental health, such a pivotalaspect Any day, and more so
these days and when we talkabout our future, sustainability

(33:15):
, our planet, I think mentalhealth is a very, very integral
part to that piece of the puzzlein all of us having a
sustainable future.
How do we raise happy, brave,resilient kids, like you talk
about?
Because your, your book sloganis that raising happy, brave,

(33:37):
resilient kids, raisingempowered athletes is the title,
but how we make them happy,brave and resilient.
So what do you see are themental health challenges and how
do we handle them?

Well, so many things happened in the last
three to four years, rightStarting with COVID, and with
COVID it really cut all of ourkids off at the knees.
They experienced something wehad never gone through.
Well, you know one, my one sonwas on on laptop for 18 months
in his pajamas, every day, youknow, like when they come out of
that, even if they are gettingto play some sports, even if

(34:12):
they are getting to do otherthings, so what they're already
finding is socially,developmentally, mentally,
academically, kids are behind.
You know, they don't have theskills and because of the cell
phones you combine that withsocial media and the cell phones
they're also.
You know, nobody asks eachother out or goes out, it's only
, you know, over a text, it'sonly a DM, it's only a chat that

(34:34):
they're having.
So they're not learning face toface communication.
They're not learning how to to,you know, decline, you know
nicely.
They're not learning how toaccept positively, they're not
giving back to each other.
And in order to, to really befully human, it means to get
outside of yourself.
And I think one of the best,one of the best tips that I've

(34:58):
ever, when I am not feeling well, give like go, do something
else for somebody else, andthat's what the planet needs
right now is us all thinkingbeyond our own front doorstep,
even right, like and it can besmall, I mean I talk about
random acts of kindness and itcan be within your house, like I

(35:19):
tell the teenagers that I workwith, like go bring your mom
that cup of coffee in themorning and watch her completely
transform.
Like, oh my gosh, you did notwithout taking out the trash
once, walking the dog, makingthe bed.
It doesn't have to be lifechanging, but you're showing
them that, oh, I'm payingattention and I and I want you

(35:41):
to be happy.
And when you're doing somethingthat's giving to others, the
universe rewards you tenfold.
And then that opportunityhappens.
And then that you know smartkid sits next to you in class
and says can we study together?
And then you get the bettergrade on the test.
And then you like, it's allcompounds in how we, in how we
do life.
So it isn't.

(36:02):
Yes, there is an element ofluck, but I also believe we
create our own luck by how weshow up, and that's the whole
section in the book around.
Mental toolkit is how do youstart your day?
What do you do every morning inservice of whatever vision you
have.
You know, I meditate, I pray, Ijournal about my day as if it's

(36:24):
already happened.
I get to go on this amazingpodcast today and share what
I've learned.
What a gift.
Now I'm just repeating what Ialready created and when I work
with athletes and parentstalking about that, we either
have life you ever have that daywhere you're like I don't even
know what I did, but I was busyall day and I don't think I
accomplished anything, but ithappened at me.

(36:47):
Or do we create a life, that wecreate the life, we create the
vision and the pathway.
And we, you know, doesn't meaneverything goes perfectly.
I'm not saying that.
You know you're going to getcut off in traffic, somebody's
going to honk at you, somebody'sgoing to be rude to you, but
you're going to responddifferently to it Exactly.

Vai Kumar (37:07):
At least you know you're prepared.
You have just kind ofprogrammed yourself to channel
your energy in a very positiveway, Correct?

Yeah, and when your kid flies off the handle
because they're frustrated,because you know they lost the
game, you don't go.
Well, you know you should bemore grateful.
You say, oh, I'm so sorry, youfeel that way.

Vai Kumar (37:29):
Yeah, empathy.
Right Back in a moment with ourguest on Fresh Leaf Forever.

But when we're all wound up, and then they well
, he's not even grateful.
I drove, you know, two hours toget to his game, and then he's
yelling at me in the car and Iyelled back.
Oh, he's stressed andfrustrated.

Vai Kumar (37:57):
Or that's one side or the other side to it could be
you joining hands and pointingfingers at, hey, yeah, that
coach was really bad, wasn't he?
Or that ref was really bad, orwhatever.
Help them see light at the endof the tunnel, help them see
something positive out of thatwhole experience.
Yeah, after all, where humansexist, everyone, all of us, make

(38:22):
mistakes, and probably that refclearly made a mistake or a bad
call, right.
But on the same token, out ofthat overall experience, how you
make it transformational forthem.
And right there, it leads me tothis topic that you discuss in
the book Transactional versustransformative coaching.

(38:44):
Right, we talked all aboutparents.
Definitely, I think it's verysignificant for us to segue into
what role coaches play in thelife of an athlete, right?
So why don't you talk aboutthat, kirsten?

Yeah, as much time as our kids are spending,
starting in middle school allthe way through high school.
You know 10, 12, 15 hours witha coach.
It's huge as to what messagesthey're giving, how they're
being treated, whether they'rebeing challenged or demeaned or
belittled you know those areagain can be either

(39:22):
transformative in a way of youknow I will, I have belief in
myself to go do whatever I wantto do or transactional means.
What are you going to do for me?
I'm the coach, I'm here to giveyou the instructions, you're
here to listen and take notesand you should be grateful
you're on the team.
I'm exaggerating a little bit,but there are many kinds of

(39:46):
transactional coaches that areliterally just there to get
through the day and get throughthe practice, and I've already
decided who the best players are.
I've already decided who's howwe're going to win or not win.
I don't leave any room to listenand to understand what do you
need from me?
What do you need to be a betterplayer?
What are you open for?

(40:06):
And, of course, I use, Ibelieve, the most
transformational coach.
You know one of the most, whichwas John Wooden.
He was all about and my co-hoston the podcast, susie Walton's
ex-husband, bill, played for himand John Wooden and, of course,
when she was raising her,what's that?

(40:26):
Ucla, right?
Yeah, ucla exactly.
And they won 10 nationalchampionships in 11 years.
And he tells the story that thefirst practice of every year,
these are the national champions.
You know what they would do?
They would have him sit down onthe floor and take off their
socks and shoes and teach themhow to put their socks on

(40:48):
properly so that they didn't getblisters, because if you got a
blister, then you weren't goingto be able to play well, you
know, then you weren't going tobe able to perform at the right
level.
I mean, I don't think eveneight-year-old coaches are doing
that anymore, right?
But that tells you the level ofdetail that he focused on while
he was developing athletes,which was all about who you are

(41:12):
and focusing on.
If you master the fundamentals,then the rest the outcome will
come will show up at one point,and right now we're so focused
on the outcome I'm going to winthe medal, I'm going to be on
the top team?
Am I going to win the award?
Am I going to get thescholarship?
The process has been lost andreally we should be focusing on
what am I learning in theprocess and what's the curiosity

(41:35):
?
And why am I doing this?
Because when you focus on that,ooh, that's when you get into
flow, that's when you get toexperience another level of joy,
contentment and, again, peakperformance.

Vai Kumar (41:52):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And interestingly, you pointedout about John Wooden at UCLA, a
very, very famed coach.
What about certain coaches?
When they tend to betransactional, they contribute
to perhaps overuse injuries.
They contribute to, say, sleepdeprivation for the kids because

(42:14):
of some outrageous demands outof the kids, right, in terms of
hey, okay, come to practice atlike 5.30 or whatever it may be
in the morning, notunderstanding the pressures of
hey, okay, one day in a week,okay, this team of mine comes
the other day, this team comes,so you all get to at least.

(42:34):
Like one day in a week, youjust to get to rest longer, type
of thing.
I guess it just has become sotransactional these days.
What are your thoughts on that?

It's crushing the kids' mental health Because of
COVID.
Then you're adding on top okay,it was already crazy.
And then you had COVID and like, if you're getting up to the
college level, you now have thetransfer portal where parents
are like, well, he's not playingenough, we're going to transfer
.
You have NIL, this name imagelikeness.
So now athletes are gettingpaid to play, making more money.

(43:09):
They announced yesterday EliManning's son is going to make
more money than one of the NFLquarterbacks, right, like just
making two and a half milliondollars.
He's not even a startingquarterback for Texas, he's a
backup, but because of the namehe's going to make all this
money and I'm sure on theoutside that sounds great.
But my question as a sportspsychology, my interest there,

(43:32):
is how does he feel about thatpressure that he feels and same
even D1, d2, d3, down to highschool the pressure that these
coaches are putting on the kidsbecause they got to win and they
got to win.
Now it's not about developingthe kids over four years anymore
, it's about I need the results.
In fact, my middle son, we weregoing on some recruiting visits

(43:56):
and we were at a PAC-12 school,or now formerly PAC-12 school,
big time program, basketballprogram and we met with a coach
and this I guess this was duringCOVID but he said why would I
recruit you right now?
I need somebody to help me winimmediately.
So I'm sure you're a greatplayer.
Talk to me in three years whenyou want to transfer from

(44:16):
wherever you are.
It wasn't about the kids aren'thaving these experiences of
getting to go to a place andagain have the sports experience
, but also have this collegeexperience where you're going to
go through four years together.
There's so much pressure andthe mental toll it's taking on

(44:36):
the parents and the athletes isdevastating.
And at your seeing kids, thetransfer portal.
Last year, I know forbasketball it ended up being
over 12,000 athletes.
I think it was 20,000 allsports and about 12,000 athletes
in just basketball.
Only little under half actuallyfound a home, so most of them

(45:00):
aren't even playing anymore.
So this idea that, okay, I'mjust going to transfer and it's
going to solve all my problems,that's another part I mean you
don't really solve all problemsright.

Vai Kumar (45:10):
It has to be one year fit two, in terms of both
academic and athletics, and thenyou want to get the chance to
play.
Most importantly out of all ofthese, you want to develop your
game right.
Whatever sport you're playing,you just want to develop
yourself, both as an athlete andas a person, more importantly.

(45:31):
And so where then does thismind-body connection, the role
of sports psychologists and allof that?
How does that come into thepicture in terms of resolving or
kind of modulating whatever weare seeing on this front?

Yeah, it's.
We only can control ourselves.
We only have you know.
We can't control how a coach isgoing to behave or perform, and
to the point of negativecoaching I think this is one of
the hardest things is whensomebody wants you, they're
going to show you one side ofwho they are and then, once you
get there, there might be ajekyll and hide, and I've

(46:14):
experienced that a couple oftimes.
So how do you screen for that sothat you're getting what you
think you're getting?
And I think the only answer forthat is asking the current and
former players who have playedfor that coach Okay, this is
nice, he's, he's, or she'stelling me everything.
I want to hear what's it reallylike?
Because when we're in thatyou're asking about mental

(46:37):
health, it's coming up with a Ihave a daily ritual.
It's coming up with ritualsthat, again, aren't focused
necessarily on the outcome.
Of course, we want thehappiness, the resilience and
the grit, but what we're focusedon is controlling what we can
control and letting the rest go.
As a parent and as an, as ourathletes, and if we can, if my,

(47:00):
if I could wave a magic wand andsay what I would love for every
athlete and their parent to getout of this book.
It would be a set of tools tobe able to, to check in with
yourself every day and have havea like and you know your own
little brand of this is how I dolife, and it doesn't mean that
everything goes perfectly.
But what it means is, you know,I I love to think of the matrix

(47:23):
and you know, when the bulletwas coming at him it was coming
in slow motion and you couldjust dive by it.
And right now, when you havethe fire hose and it's just
streaming at you so fast andyou're just trying to figure it
out.
But what the tools do formental health helps slow things
down.
So when you see the, you knowthe bad person coming at you,

(47:44):
the negative coaching the, youkind of watch it go by and you
can be empathetic.

Vai Kumar (47:51):
Oh yeah, empathy for coaches, empathy for parents.
That way the kids know todemonstrate empathy amongst
their team and build teamcamaraderie and things like that
so significant.
I wish every program wouldfocus on having a sports
psychologist.
And when it comes to athletes,kirsten, what about their role

(48:13):
in taking a methodical approachto sport?
We said we want to build gritty, resilient athletes.
Right, when you talk about thefive C's in your book and you
say, if not any other chapter,at least read this one out of
the book, because you'll get theessence of it almost.
So just why don't you help uswalk us through that?

Yeah.
So being being a resilientathlete means having tools that
help you, that you have on boardI mean, algie, I like to live
uses.
You can't put out the fire whenthe house is all engulfed in
flames, so you need tools sothat.
And tools are a daily practicethat you use, and a lot of what

(48:58):
I use with clients are, again,meditation, mindfulness,
affirmations, journaling, toolsthat lower.
You know, either have athermostat or a thermometer.
A thermostat, you set it 72,maybe it goes up to 73, maybe it
goes down to 71, and you'reable to control the flow.
The thermometer, it's 105, it's55, it's 110.

(49:22):
And when we live like this, theup and down, the yes, the no,
it's, it's chaotic, it'sstressful, it's all the
vacillating, right, it's all thevacillating.
And so what we're trying to doagain and I'm not expecting you
to have a flat line, but the onestory I love to share, which is
Patrick Mahomes, thequarterback for Kansas City, a
couple of years ago they wereplaying the bills and the

(49:43):
playoffs to the Super Bowl andthe lead changed five times in
the last five minutes.
And they're winning, they'relosing, they're winning, they're
losing.
And afterwards Mahomes, trainerthe next day, posted about it
and said here's my heart ratefrom yesterday's game, and it
was going up and down, and upand down, and up and down.
And he goes, and here'sPatrick's.

(50:05):
It was just gently undulatingwe're winning, we're losing,
we're winning.
He didn't just decide in thegame oh, I'm going to be calm.
He's been training and usingtools long before he got to that
point, so that when you're inthe lion's den, you're not

(50:26):
reacting.
You're oh, this is interesting.
Okay now, what do I need to donext?
You're making a decision in themoment because you're not
feeling the pressure.

Vai Kumar (50:38):
It boils down to the rituals again.
It cannot come out of the blue,it just has to be something
that you have methodicallypracticed or have an approach to
it.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
You talk about Patrick.
I watch the Netflix documentaryand it just talks about it.
It takes you through in oneepisode how he approaches his

(51:00):
whole game style, how his wholetraining and all of that.
That's just fascinating for anyathlete to just watch and
emulate avoiding burnout andbuilding this V versus I mindset
in children, or in kids inathletes.
How do we do that?

(51:22):
How can we better address thataspect, kirsten, when it comes
to athletes, that there are twoself-centered.

You're saying or.

Vai Kumar (51:32):
Yeah, one, yeah.
How can we just raise betterathletes in terms of okay, you
touched upon the burnout aspectearlier, but in terms of also
making sure that their effort issustained and also their effort
is channeled towards a teammindset, not just me, me, me, I,

(51:56):
I, I.

Yes.
So it goes back to what we'vebeen talking about all hour,
which is what are you modeling?
Are you cheering for everybodyor are you only cheering for
your child?
Are you only happy when yourchild plays or are you happy
when the team wins?
One challenge I love to give toparents when I speak to them is
, after the game or match orwhatever, go up and give the

(52:21):
other person and, even if theydidn't win but hey gosh, I saw
that hit down the line.
That was amazing, right?
You, putting the goodness outinto the world again, is helping
everybody.
You're helping the wholeecosystem.
Talk about sustainability andpositive parenting, or what are
we doing to help each other?
And when your child sees thatmodel, though, that's okay for

(52:41):
me to say something to the otherteam, and in a positive way.
Yeah, now I'm gonna say it tomy teammate.
As I say to going through therecruiting process, the coaches
watching whether you're picking.
I've had multiple coaches sayI'm recruiting that kid not
because in fact, she didn't evenget to play the day that I came
to watch her, but did you seeher attitude on the bench?

(53:02):
Gino Ariyama, who has coached10 national championship women's
basketball team, says I go backand I watch every single game.
You know what I'm watching.
I'm watching our bench and ifour bench isn't cheering, I
don't care.
If you're a four-timeAll-American, you're not gonna
be playing in the next game.
So we have control over 10things that require zero talent.

(53:26):
They are your attitude, yourenergy, your effort, your body
language.
Body language is huge right.
Are you standing on the sideand slumped over and head
slumped over?
Are you engaged?
Are you happy?
Are you supportive?
I have an athlete right now.
She's sprained her ankle.
They were getting ready to goto a tournament.
I said your number one job is tobe the biggest cheerleader.

(53:48):
Find one person who needs youduring each match and be there
for them.
People are noticing that.
There'll be college coachesthere.
They know you can't play rightnow.
They'll be taking notes on yourattitude and they've got to
deal with you.
They want to deal with you forthe next four years because of
your attitude and you have 100%control over that.

(54:11):
A lot of people.
Well, it's not fair.
I'm not as athletic.
I don't joke as high.
Are you a hard worker?
Are you energetic?
Are you kind?
Are you supportive?
And when we and that's when Iwork with teams like we do
exercises around, helping themget out of their own head and
into their teammate's mind andstart sharing and realizing oh

(54:34):
wow, I didn't realize you werestruggling with that and you're
struggling with this.
Oh, it's not just me.
Oh, I thought I was the onlyone because I'm injured.
No, you know, her mom is sickor heard you know whatever.
She flunked this test or thisclass or whatever.
Everybody's got something goingon.
But what do you have controlover?
And parents you modeling thatas well.

(54:57):
I had one college coach calledme when he was recruiting my son
and he said wow, you're onecool customer.
I said what, like?
How did you even know who I was?
He goes oh, we figure it outpretty quick.
I had no idea I was beingwatched.
You're being watched too.
So if you don't think that,your antics on the sidelines,

(55:18):
you know you jumping up and downand yelling at the ref.
I know coaches who just crossyour kid's name off the list,
like I don't need to deal withthat for the next four years.
There are so many other kids,and wouldn't that be just?
Wouldn't that just devastateyou if you thought my kid didn't
get an opportunity because ofhow I behaved?

Vai Kumar (55:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And so it all boils down to thebody language, the camaraderie
that one is able to demonstrateand the work ethic, right?
So sportsmanship, work ethic,all these matter a lot.
And if you were to giveathletes, like, say, a couple of

(55:59):
I know you talk aboutaffirmations in the book, you
have given several there If youwere to say, top two, when they
get up in the morning, sit andmeditate, whatever, just, or at
least kind of calm themselvesdown, just allow your mind to
roam, not that you just have tobe super focused into one thing,

(56:19):
because that's where we allfail.
Right In meditation, we tend tothink, oh, I'm supposed to just
sit super still, without justruminating.
Just it just has to be this onepoint or one thought that I'm
supposed to focus on.
So, in terms of helpingathletes and giving them a
couple of affirmations as, like,say, actionable insights from

(56:41):
this program, what would thosebe, kirsten?

So one caveat, and for us adults, morning might
be the best time to meditateand pray and journal for teens,
because their brains are shiftedand they usually kick into
money.
Many of them kick intooverdrive at 10, 11, 12 PM.
Sometimes I encourage them it'sfinding your time, what time is
right for you?
Because Dr Serini Pala, who's aHarvard researcher and brain

(57:11):
doctor he talks about what weput into our brain right before
we go to bed is so powerful, andso I have athletes work on that
too, so it could be somethingthat you're doing as you get
ready to go to bed.
I have one athlete who loves tojust visualize his game the
night before.
I call it remembering thefuture.
What's the match I'm going toplay tomorrow and how do I want

(57:34):
it to go, and how does thatracket feel in my hand and that
ball.
I just hit the baseline and Ihit that one hand at a backhand
and oh, it's so easy.
So I am.
Statements to your question area big thing.
I have them right.
I am strong, I am powerful.
What are the things thatresonate for you?

(57:55):
It doesn't really matter what Ithink, but coming up with
things that get you excited.
I like Montras too.
I've got a tennis player that Iwork with and she liked to play
up, so she was playing against.
She was 14 at the time andplaying against 18-year-olds and
she said this one girl I playagainst, she hits the ball so
deep, heavy, high and hard.
I said, oh, that's kind of aninteresting mantra.

(58:17):
I said what does that make youthink?
She was like well, she's reallystrong, she really hits the
ball hard and she gets toeverything.
I was like OK, so how aboutthat for a mantra?
Deep heavy high hard, deep,heavy, high hard.
Because here's the thing Ifyou're saying that to yourself,
you can't be saying, oh, I hopeI don't miss it, oh, I hope this

(58:38):
doesn't go, oh, I don't want tomiss my serve.
Deep, heavy, high hard.
I am in the flow, I am goingfor what I want, because we
can't live in love and fear atthe same time.
We have to choose.
It's not possible to have thosetwo be happening at the same
time.
So when we choose love and wechoose what we want, like with

(58:59):
my volleyball athletes, I'm likeI serve bases.
Well, none of you are a goodserver.
Well, if that's what you'resaying to yourself, what are the
odds that balls go into the netversus?

Vai Kumar (59:09):
What is going to stay right.
What you're telling yourself ishow your brain is going to wire
that future for you.

We focus on expands.
And some of the athletes willsay I don't think of anything,
and that's OK too if you'rereally just in the moment.
But I say, as a muscle, I wouldbe using the time in the
morning or the evening wheneveris your right time to visualize
what it is that you want tocreate, writing it down.
If you can write something down, I can't believe that I made it

(59:39):
to the state championship.
I was playing against thenumber one rated player in the
state and I crushed her.
I mean, maybe that's a pipedream.
Your brain doesn't know that.
Your brain is like, wow, ok,this sounds like fun.
Ok, so what do I need to do toget there?
And again, maybe you go fromnumber 50 to number 25.

(59:59):
Maybe you don't make it tonumber one, but you definitely
won't make it there if you don'ttry and if you don't visualize
yourself being there.
So it starts with the innerknowing and the inner belief of
what's possible and once webelieve enough in ourselves,
we'll watch out.

Vai Kumar (01:00:19):
Oh yes, yeah, right there, the five C's come in
right.
Yes, care or self-carecontribution create capabilities
.
You offer that in the mindsettoolbox chapter there.
Any further thoughts on that?

Kirsten Jones (01:00:38):
We're better as humans.
We're better when we'recreating.
Right now we're living in thisand I'm watching YouTube and I'm
watching a video and I'mabsorbing TikTok.
When our kids say they'redepressed, it's because they're
not doing, they're justabsorbing.
Or when we feel are worse.
When you say that well, she wenton this nice vacation and she

(01:01:00):
gets to go there and he's doingthat, we're put that aside and I
say what are you creating?
What are you working on?
I don't care if it's your ownvideo game or your own YouTube
channel or your own, even ifyou're just creating things to
share with friends.
But what happens when we startcreating?
Then ideas start popping up andthen you get the next idea oh,

(01:01:22):
I'm gonna try this.
No, I'm gonna try that, likeright now.
The idea came to me thismorning on my hike that I really
would love to do an onlinecourse.
I'm like, okay, I've never donethat before, I have no idea how
to do that, but success leavesclues.
I found a woman who does teachonline courses.
I bought her $49 course.
I'm gonna start doing it.
You know, like we're just,we've gotta just keep sampling,

(01:01:45):
keep trying things, and whenwe're creating, good things
happen.

Vai Kumar (01:01:52):
Yeah, that also can serve as a distraction or
diversion from your totallybeing immersed in this pool of
whatever you're doing.
Right, that can help alleviateburnout and it's kind of like,
okay, just try and channel yourefforts in whatever positive
ways you can, and that's goingto help you build your

(01:02:13):
capabilities as well, both as aperson and in sport.
And yes, right.

I was listening to so the author of Atomic
Habits, james Clear.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that book.
It's sold 15 million copies,right Like it's phenomenal.
And so I went back and listenedto it this morning.
And he talks about success increating new habits, isn't you?
Don't start by asking yourselfwhat do I want to achieve?

(01:02:42):
Start by asking yourself whatkind of person do I want to
become?
So I'm the kind of person thatgets up and goes to the gym.
Or I'm the kind of person thatgets up and writes 15 minutes in
the morning.
I'm the kind of person.
And when you start proving toyourself that I'm the kind of
person that does X, why willappear eventually.

(01:03:04):
But what we do is we say, oh, Iwould like this I would like to
lose 10 pounds.
I would like to make a milliondollars.
I would like to.
Whatever habit it is that wethink we, oh, if not, all you
have to do is work every day.
Don't focus on the outcome.
Focus on who, what kind ofperson does that, which is what
we want our kids to do.
Right, if they're getting up inservice of themselves, picking

(01:03:26):
one or two things that they cando today to help them in their
goals, the outcome will happen.

Vai Kumar (01:03:34):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Very well said.
And for a sustainable future,how resilient kids and positive
outcomes matter.
You have outlined it so wellall this time, but again more
emphasis on it.
If we can focus on the health,safety and still keeping it fun
right In turn, hopefully we canpave the way for sustainable

(01:03:58):
societal causes for them to besustained in their efforts in
athletics, and obviously that'sgoing to elevate their
performance as well.
Your thoughts, kristin.

So sports, everyone has to pivot at some
point, even the most eliteathletes, the Tom Brady's, the
Serena Williams, the LeBronJames.
His time is limited, but thetools that we learn along the
way and we share with others ina way that's just giving, I
believe the pie is infinitelybig and I can share with you and

(01:04:35):
you can share with me, andbecause yours being successful,
takes nothing away from me andmy success isn't a threat to you
.
But to be sustainable as ahuman race, we need to stop
worrying only about ourselvesand only what will I get out of
it?
And me, mine, you know, andonly when we open up that
aperture of wow.

(01:04:56):
I wonder what would happen if Ijust today and again, I just
did something without evenexpecting anything in return,
and see what happens.
So that's what's happening Likeand for your athlete.
Do that in practice.
Go talk to one teammate, gochair, go sit with one teammate
before practice and ask them howtheir day was, watch them fall

(01:05:18):
off the chair.
Oh, wow, she asked me what.
I think Something as simple asjust engaging somebody else
beyond your you know whataffects you or how we're gonna
get something out of it can becompletely transformative.

Vai Kumar (01:05:34):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
What about the coach's angle?
What would you suggest tocoaches that?
Hey, you know this intern canhelp better the state for
players, parents, whatever itmay be like based on your
journey, kirsten.

You know, coaches like parents.
I think we need to ask morequestions and ask better
questions.
You know, the truth of thematter is kids are being
parented a lot differently thanthey were in the 70s and 80s.
Right, Some of it's better,some of it's worse.
Right, You're dealing with someparents who are way more

(01:06:11):
intense than they were when wewere being raised.
That's a fact.
At the same time, I think youhave this opportunity for these
kids, who they're gettingexposed to a lot more things a
lot earlier because oftechnology, because of their
environment, and you couldcompletely 10X what they get out
of that sport, and it doesn'tmean because they're the best

(01:06:34):
athlete.
Again, I think the best coachesare asking the right questions,
and maybe it is hey, Julie, youknow what?
I don't really.
I don't see that you're abasketball player, but you keep
doing dancing over there.
Maybe you should join the dancesquad.
What do you think?
Oh, gosh, you think I'm a gooddancer?
Yeah, oh, and I know somebodyyou could talk to, or like

(01:06:55):
helping them figure out what'sgood for them versus.
Oh well, you signed up for thisand you're not one of my better
players, so sit on the end ofthe bench and be happy that
you're here.
No, like I believe, every coachbrings the best.
Coaches bring everybody up twoor three notches from whatever
level they start at.

Vai Kumar (01:07:15):
Yeah, developmentally , one can make or break right,
and so be the coach that makestheir day, makes their life,
makes their development biggerand more pronounced right.
That's the message there and interms of racing athletes to be
good people and theirspearheading efforts towards the

(01:07:37):
causes for this planet, I thinkyou and I have seen a lot of
plastic water bottles and thingsout there, so any message for
them there.
Yeah, I mean again, we get tomake a choice every day with.

What are we buying?
What are we who are where arewe shopping?
What are we gonna vote with ourdollar and how we decide to
support the environment and ourkids?
And we've got the whole jar binof bottles water bottles that
you fill up and take with you topractice.
So making those kinds ofchoices trying to pack lunches
when you can it requiresplanning.
But if you have the Tupperwareor you have the sustainable

(01:08:14):
products that can help plan that, they're gonna eat more
nutritionally while they're atthat all day tournament and
they're gonna hydrate better,and when they do that then
they're gonna feel better.
When they feel better, theymight play better, right, like
so.
It's a big ecosystem that itseems small, but if they're
eating junk food the whole dayand they're using drinking sodas

(01:08:38):
and doing things that aren'thelping their body become
healthy and trust me, I'm guiltyof it, like I'm not perfect at
this either, but we all need todo it a little if we can do a
little better in that area, Ithink it can help everybody.

Vai Kumar (01:08:51):
Oh, even clean up activities after every practice
and any other efforts towardssociety can be great team
bonding activities as well.
Right, so we are empoweringathletes to be great people in
sustaining their enthusiasm,helping them realize their full
potential Say coaches, beingtransformational, not

(01:09:14):
transactional.
Also helping them become greathuman beings.
So as parents, coaches,teammates, we all have our role
to play in racing empoweredathletes.
It's the biggest message thatI've derived from this
conversation, kristin, and Iknow you have something to offer
listeners and also your contactinformation and all about the

(01:09:37):
book, the forum.

Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, so you can find me.
I'm on all the socials ofInstagram and LinkedIn and
Facebook.
Kirsten Jones coach.
And if you go on to raisingathletes podcast on Instagram
and like and then DM me a littlemessage about your athlete like

(01:09:59):
what your athlete does and whathelp you would love or what
you're excited about this seasonjust send me a little message.
I would like to give somebody afree autograph copy of the book
.
So, and when you hear thismessage, just jump onto
Instagram and go on to raisingathletes podcast, jump, like and
share and jump into my DMs anddrop me a message and I would

(01:10:22):
love to connect with you.

Vai Kumar (01:10:24):
Oh, perfect, and you are also a coach peak
performance coach so people cango to kirstenjonesinkcom and get
in touch with you to avail yourservices.
Is that right that?

is correct and you can find the book anywhere.
Books are sold, but you can goon to my website.
You can find the link there too.

Vai Kumar (01:10:44):
Okay, awesome Listeners as always, follow the
podcast, rate the podcast andleave a review from your podcast
app of choice.
Follow @vaipkumar on InstagramThat's V-A-I-P.
Like Paul K-U-M-A-R.
And like Kirsten said, that's awonderful offer.

(01:11:04):
It's a great book to read andit would be really nice to get a
signed copy from her.
So please jump up on that offer.
And until I get back with youagain with yet another
interesting guest and yetanother interesting topic, it's
me Vai saying so long, we shallsee you next time.

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