November 18, 2024 • 51 mins
Join us for an enlightening episode of Fresh Take, offering invaluable insights into disaster relief and resilience within the farming community. Our special guests, Lisa Misch and Jaimie McGirt from RAFI, share their vast experience in guiding farmers through the challenges posed by natural disasters. From hurricanes to droughts, we discuss the essential support systems that enable farmers to recover and thrive, highlighting the important roles played by the Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) and Farm Service Agency (FSA) during times of crisis.
Lisa and Jaimie share their work, highlighting the importance of disaster recovery programs and keeping detailed records. We discuss the challenges of recovery and practical steps farmers can take to navigate the aftermath of extreme weather.
We conclude with a call to action for listeners to engage with RAFI's mission, advocating for a more equitable food system. Don't miss this crucial discussion on building resilient farm communities and the vital support farmers need to face natural disasters.
Additional resources:
USDA Disaster Discovery Tool
Navigating Disaster Programs for Farmers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Fresh Take , where we at Florida Organic
Growers speak to food systemsexperts about topics related to
organic and sustainableagriculture, healthy lifestyles
and the environment.
To help us continue ourprograms at FOG, including our
podcast, consider becoming asponsor.
For more information onsponsorship, check out our Get
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg out our Get
(00:28):
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome back to Fresh Take.
I am your host, lana Shahabedin, and today we're diving into a
powerful and timely topicdisaster relief and resilience
in the farming community.
When natural disasters strike,farmers often find themselves on
the front lines, facingenormous losses and challenges
that can disrupt theirlivelihoods and impact the
entire food system.
We'll explore how farmers canrebuild and thrive even in the
(00:51):
face of adversity, and thecritical role that disaster
relief and support play inhelping them make a comeback.
Joining us today are twodedicated and inspiring leaders
from RAFI USA.
Rafi stands for RuralAdvancement Foundation
International Lisa Misch,Managing Director of Programs,
and Jamie McGirt, agriculturalConservation and Market Access
(01:13):
Manager.
Together, lisa and Jamie bringa wealth of knowledge and
practical experience to today'sconversation.
They'll share insights on howdisaster relief efforts work in
farming, the unique challengesrural communities face and the
critical need for building asupport system that enables
farmers to recover and thrive.
Welcome to our show, ladies.
(01:34):
Good to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So excited to have you both here today, and before
we get you know started in termsof discussing more of Rafi's
vision and missions, I wouldlove to dive into your
backgrounds and whatspecifically you each focus on.
So, lisa, I'd like to start offwith you and learning more
about how you came to Rafi, whatyour you know background
(02:03):
entails, and how and how younavigate disaster relief in your
role.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Yeah, so I started at RAFI about seven and a half
years ago and my original rolewas with farmers markets and
helping farmers marketsimplement SNAP incentive
programs around the state as ameans of increasing food access
for the community.
From that project I moved tomany different areas of RAFI's
work, including several years ofhurricanes and being able to
(02:35):
jump into farmer assistance andresponse work.
Over time, I've spent more ofmy work focusing on our
federally funded programs andhelping manage and expand them.
So currently, in my role asmanaging director of programs, I
oversee most of our programsthat involve direct assistance
(02:57):
with farmers, helping themaccess programs or resources,
and that includes a lot of ourwork right now around helping
farmers get connected withexisting USDA resources that are
there to help them in times ofcrisis.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's great.
I love that you have abackground in farmers, markets
and SNAP coordination, becausethat's obviously a really
integral role in our food systemas well, and I'm excited to
hear more about your role as wedig deeper into this topic.
And, jamie, I would love toalso hear, similar to Lisa, how
(03:34):
you came into this position asAgricultural Conservation and
Market Access Manager and whatthat really means.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Sure.
So I came to RAFI with abackground in some natural
resource conservation as well asagricultural production.
I've been working at thegrassroots level and began doing
statewide grassroots supportwork and that brought me to RAFI
and I love being able to shiftto direct farmer technical
(04:05):
assistance.
That was about two and a halfyears ago and at RAFI since I've
shifted between a couple ofprograms, but what I love doing
most is providing directtechnical assistance, helping
farmers access USDA programs.
Direct technical assistancehelping farmers access USDA
(04:31):
programs, particularly thosethat help them improve natural
resource conservation on theirfarmland.
Farmers do that veryproactively and then after a
natural disaster, I'm findingit's kind of first and top of
mind for producers when they'rebeginning to recover.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Absolutely, and I love that you also bring this
background in grassroots,because FOG Florida Organic
Growers is also a grassrootsorganization and so we
definitely align with the ideaof being farmers for farmers,
kind of thing.
So we love to hear that andit's great that you guys are
(05:03):
both providing this hands-onwork directly for this
population that really canbenefit from the support
programs that are out there.
So, for folks that are notfamiliar with Rafi and are not
sure what you guys really do asa whole, can you tell us, lisa,
(05:24):
a bit about your vision andmission?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah, so Raffi is based in Pittsburgh, north
Carolina, but serves farmers andfarm communities across the
Southeast and US Caribbeanislands.
Our mission is challenging theroot causes of unjust food
systems and supporting andadvocating for economically,
racially and ecologically justfarm communities.
So, within that mission, whatwe're really looking for is a
(05:51):
thriving and equitable foodsystem where communities have
dignity to agency, where they'resupported by just policies and
where the corporations andinstitutions around them are
accountable to the communitiesthat they impact around them are
accountable to the communitiesthat they impact, incredible.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I mean.
That's that's a mouthfulEconomically, racially and
ecologically.
Just farm communities.
That's a really big, you knowtarget, I think.
And so in that kind of work,you know what, what kind of
programs do you guys currentlywork on and how is it addressing
those things?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yes, and we do have those three economically,
racially and ecologically pairedtogether because they form that
holistic change that we hope tosee.
So our programs are focusedfirst on the direct, on the
ground assistance and havingthat build up the foundation
towards systemic change.
(06:48):
So direct service programsinclude projects that help
farmers access resources orservices.
So this includes our farmadvocacy program, which helps
provide financial counseling tofarmers that are in crisis.
We have a Farmers of ColorNetwork that is comprised of
over 900 farmers across 13states and US Virgin Islands,
(07:10):
puerto Rico, connecting themwith services and educational
opportunities.
Our Resources for ResilientFarms project, which I think
I'll be able to talk about a bitlater, is specifically geared
towards connecting farmers withUSDA programs.
We also have work around JustFoods, developing regionally
(07:31):
resilient seed varieties andchallenging corporate power and
emboldening farmers to challengecorporate power that's existing
within their farm communitiesthat is limiting their viability
and success.
Beyond just work directly withfarmers, we help farmers and
communities connect and empowereach other.
So our Come to the Tableprogram is designed around
(07:53):
helping faith communities beempowered to contribute towards
a just food system and connectwith farmers in their area.
And then, through all this work, we are also helping support
connecting farmers with localmarkets.
This on the ground work thenfeeds into our policy program
and our team and we mainly workon a federal level as opposed to
(08:13):
state.
But in that regard we'relooking at opportunities to
influence policies at theadministrative and agency level
and the legislative level thatare going to address sort of the
common barriers and issues thatwe see when we are working with
farmers on the ground tocontribute towards that systemic
change.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Wow, I mean, that's a lot of different things that
you guys are doing and it's allreally vital in terms of you
know being able to connectpeople and offering a network
and really just kind of thisumbrella group of you know
tackling different aspects ofequity and justice in the food
(08:55):
system.
So I'm wondering you guysmentioned USDA programs in your
introductions and also theemphasis of helping connecting
farmers with resources, so canyou dive a little bit deeper
into what exactly that lookslike and how you help them
navigate some of the things thatare out there?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Sure, yeah, and this touches on the Resources for
Resilient Farms program Imentioned, which the mission of
that program is to provide plainlanguage education and
one-on-one technical assistanceto farmers that want to access
USDA programs and services andspecifically farmers that have
(09:38):
been historically underserved byUSDA agencies.
So within that work, it can beall the way from like light
touch introduction assistance,getting farmers connected with
USDA, to really in-depth.
So when I say like light touch,just getting a farmer
established with their localUSDA office if they have never
(09:59):
worked with them before is areally big step towards getting
them closer to accessingservices.
So that could be helping themget their farm number or getting
those initial documents set up,making sure that they know
where their local service centeris.
That work is helpful in thedisaster work that we'll talk
(10:21):
about.
It's really foundational.
And then, when we get intospecific programs, like Jamie's,
work is with NRCS.
That involves talking with thefarmer about what their goals
are and really thinking about itbroadly as what is this
farmer's holistic goal, and thendoing sort of the like, the
bridging or the connection ofthis is what I'm hearing.
(10:42):
These are the certain NRCSprograms that could help you
reach that goal.
And now I'll help you thinkthrough the application process,
explain what the timeline isgoing to be and be sort of that
guiding navigator as they workthrough a process which
otherwise they would.
They might be doing completelyon their own or, you know, might
get varying degrees of supportfrom their local service center.
(11:04):
So that's the real goal of thatprogram and we do NRCS program
support and we also have workedwith FSA loans and the emergency
programs within FSA.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
That's incredible and for those that are listening
who are not familiar with NRCSor FSA, can you tell us what
those stand for and what thoseorganizations typically do?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
loans, access to credit for farmers, as well as
kind of collection of riskmanagement programs to assist
farmers in different disastersor crises.
And NRCS is the NaturalResource Conservation Service,
which is focused on helpingfarmers implement conservation
practices.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes, I mean, there's so many acronyms out there right
In the food system, and funnybecause to us a lot of these
things we throw around on adaily basis, but we might have
some folks listening that arepretty new to the farming
industry and might not be asfamiliar.
So thank you for explaining thatand giving us some clarity.
(12:22):
And you know, we definitelywant to kind of switch gears a
little bit and talk about theimpact of natural disasters,
especially in the agriculturalworld, and how this really
affects the folks working inthis field.
And so I think you know a lotof the times when we see a
(12:43):
hurricane coming and you knowother types of natural disasters
that are headed our way, ourfirst thought is not really
what's going to happen to thefarmers.
It's really, you know, more ofa individualistic perspective of
okay, I need to prep my home,my family need to get all the
necessities, my family needs toget all the necessities.
(13:09):
So you know, I'd love to fleshout this idea that, well, all of
our agricultural actors arealso really affected by this,
and I'd like to hear from youguys how you know well, first of
all, what kinds of disasterstypically affect farmers and
what normally happens to themduring this time?
What are the main things thatyou guys see in your work and
(13:30):
how do you try to address that?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
So I would describe disasters, as they relate to
farmland, as significant weatherevents, and these weather
events can happen acutely, theycan also happen over a long term
, and the types of acutedisasters or short term
(13:53):
disasters that we commonly seeinclude hurricanes, which bring
significant flooding, we'velearned.
They can bring landslides, theycan bring strong wind damage
and just heavy saturation fromdays of rainfall.
But then there are also longerterm disaster events, such as
(14:16):
drought or long periods ofprecipitation that would create
these flooding or otherconditions.
So programs that assist withdisaster recovery depend on the
type of weather event thatoccurred and the duration of
that weather event weather eventthat occurred and the duration
(14:37):
of that weather event and basedon those events, the USDA will
activate certain programs thatwould assist farmers for those
disasters.
And the kinds of activitiesthat we see during these
different disaster or weatherevents really range widely.
What we have seen this season in2024, with hurricanes, is that
(15:01):
there are a lot of disasterevents associated with just a
single storm.
So, with a hurricane bringingextreme flooding and heavy
rainfall, landslides, winddamage, we see everything from
contamination of soil and waterbodies as well as below ground
(15:22):
water sources like water wellsbeing compromised after being
flooded.
We see a mass amount of topsoillost in the event of flooding,
and then we also see the soilcolumn being affected when there
have been heavy rains andrainfall has saturated that soil
(15:43):
column.
All of these things lead to theloss of harvest or production.
So farmers who've had harvestedcrops that are in storage might
be affected by power outages ortotal washout as a result of a
flood, whereas products that arestill in production, whether
they're crops or they'relivestock, may be destroyed or
(16:07):
there can be significantlivestock death Following the
event.
There is increasedsusceptibility to disease.
A lot of us are wondering whatis going to happen in the seed
bank after an extreme floodingevent and what will farmers face
in terms of weed pressure now,the year or more after a
(16:30):
disaster event.
And then there comes the lossor destruction to supplies and
infrastructure, everything fromirrigation systems that are
damaged or washed away, hightunnels can be completely
flattened or you may have just alittle bit of plastic damage.
Fencing can have tree debrisfrom tree fall, or, if
(16:56):
floodwaters actually rise andrun over fence lines, you can
get a lot of trash and sand andsilt debris piled up on those
fence lines, creating damage.
Wow, so essentially it's areally long list actually of the
effect of even just one weatherevent on a single farm.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, I mean, that's an extensive list of things that
can happen, and it seems that alot of those things would be
really hard to recover from.
So what do you guys typicallysee in relation to the recovery
process?
You know what does that mean tothe farmer.
How do they, how do they goabout picking themselves back up
(17:38):
when something like thathappens to their farm?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Well, from our experience this year, it can
really range.
I think it first depends on thedegree or significance of
damage or losses.
One thing that's been notablein 2024 is the loss of essential
functions in their communitycreates just an enormous level
(18:25):
of grief and I think someindecision and what seems to
come first is farmers' abilityto kind of cope with that level
of loss.
So how long does it take torecover for farmers who had
every level of damage?
(18:46):
We're hearing that it is goingto take years, particularly the
loss of topsoil.
When a farmer is described thatthey spent 13 years building up
that topsoil layer and now in asingle flood they've lost over
a foot of that topsoil, that's adevastating loss that just
can't be reapplied in one year.
(19:08):
Like a new high tunnelstructure could be heartbreaking
.
Yeah, so that's why I say likeit really varies and then,
depending on their financialposition and their ability to
foot the bill of recovery upfront can really determine their
recovery phases.
So how quickly can theypurchase supplies and equipment
(19:30):
and infrastructure to get backinto immediate production?
What is the state of soilcontamination?
What rest period will that soilneed before crops can be
replanted?
And, lisa, would you addanything else there?
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Yeah, I was going that direction of what you were
just saying.
You know, immediately after adisaster, I think the immediate
response for farmers is thecleanup stage of triage.
You know fixing fences iflivestock got out, clearing
debris and you know trees acrossroads.
And then it moves into thatquestion of, ok, yeah, how can I
(20:08):
get back into some form ofproduction.
Think a lot of farms you knowat least in 2024, may need to
kind of, yeah, rethink theirfarming approach and what they
can potentially grow in the nextyear and what markets will be
available.
I mean, that's not somethingwe've mentioned yet.
But another impact of disastersis just the impact to the local
(20:32):
food economy, which thenimpacts them.
So some farms may have minimalinfrastructure and physical
damage but a restaurant may beclosed that they sold to.
So it does just impact theentire farm business plan.
And, yeah, after the immediateresponse, you're talking about a
multi-year recovery plan topotentially get things back to
(20:56):
where they want to be recoveryplan to potentially get things
back to where they want to be.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I mean, you guys touched on a couple of
things that really struck achord.
Also, you know one the mentalhealth aspect of this is like
that level of grief that youexperience must be really high
and coming back from that istough.
And then there's also thecommunity that's impacted.
That could be that localrestaurant that's sourcing from
(21:21):
the farm or even the farmer'smarkets.
So there's a lot of seems to beconnections between, obviously,
the impact on the farm and thenthe outside community, even
including the average consumer.
So anyone that's listeningthat's not actively a grower or
(21:43):
a rancher.
There's always going to beimpacts that we might feel on
our end.
So different organizations areobviously out there to help
farmers navigate this kind ofdisaster relief.
I know, obviously, floridaOrganic Growers.
We have our own hurricaneresources page on our homepage,
(22:05):
foginfoorg.
But I'm curious to hear therole of Rafi and how you guys
navigate the disaster relief,specifically in the resources
that you provide and you knowthe actual steps you take once a
disaster hits.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, maybe Lisa, you want to share broadly and then
I can dive in to any details.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, that sounds good, so I can take you know
this.
Hurricane Helene is an exampleof what response can look like
where you know, first we arejust trying to understand, like,
what is happening on the ground, how are farmers being impacted
?
So we reach out to farmerswhere we have known connections
and you know, assess like arethey OK, what has happened on
(22:52):
their farm or in their area, ontheir farm or in their area.
Once we've started to get anassessment of what's happening
on the ground, we also want tounderstand what federal programs
are starting to switch on.
And there's a whole acronymlist of different programs that
may turn on and each can be alittle different in terms of
(23:13):
when it can be activated.
You know whether a federaldisaster area has been
officially declared or whether acounty needs to request that a
program come online.
It can vary.
So there's just a lot ofclarification that our policy
team has taken on of reachingout to national, state and local
USDA offices and then our workis getting that information back
(23:36):
to farmers and getting thatinformation back to
organizations or kind of trustedcommunity members that can be
that conduit of information tofarmers during kind of this
tumultuous time.
Another important part of ourwork is getting that like
initial, really importantinformation to farmers about how
(23:57):
to document what's happened ontheir farm and how to contact a
USDA service center so that theycan tap into these programs.
Jamie, I don't know, do youwant to talk more about that
piece of it?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Sure.
So Lisa mentions like the kindof first line of support being
the first information theyshould have, and that translates
to what steps would they needto take initially?
And those are important to know, I think, in advance of
disasters as well as in themoments after a disaster,
(24:31):
because once the disaster struckwe have the difficulty of
moving through the loss and thegrief of that, and so taking in
information and being able todecipher it and understand how
it applies to you after thatdisaster event is just more
stressful and it's moredifficult Absolutely.
So one thing we try to doproactively is help farmers
(24:54):
understand after the disasterevent what are the first steps
they should take, and one ofthose is documentation.
It helps tremendously to evenhave a good practice of
documenting the activities oftheir farm and what production
looks like before a disasterevent.
For farmers who do a lot ofpromotion of their farm on
(25:15):
social media, this might comeeasy because you have a stack of
photos on hand showing whatlevel of production you were in
before the storm.
One recommendation I would haveis kind of have a couple areas
on your farm where you justconsistently take a photo in the
same angle or direction acouple of times a year just to
document what kind of the bigpicture of your farm looks like,
(25:39):
Because when it comes time toreporting what kind of damage or
losses you had after extremeweather events, you need to be
able to demonstrate what wasthere before and thus what was
lost or damaged.
Some important things I thinkto document after a storm would
(25:59):
be any sand or silt rock debristhat has been deposited on your
farm after flooding, any treedebris from trees falling or
trees being swept throughfloodwaters on your farm
property, particularly any ofthis debris that ends up on
(26:20):
fence lines, creating damage ordamage to buildings on the
inside or outside.
Other kinds of debris might betrash, whether it's from your
own farm, such as that hightunnel that's now been destroyed
, or if you had plastic rowcover, landscape fabric that's
now tangled and deep buried intosand and silt, that kind of
(26:43):
material would count as trash.
But after a large floodingevent, you may also have trash
from off the farm that's nowbeen deposited on your land, and
then you may have damage likeyour crop fields or your grazing
pastures are now uneven, sosediment has washed or gullied,
(27:05):
and so you have these kind ofdeep rivets that now make your
production after the storm morechallenging.
So you would want to takepictures of this kind of
misshapen crop or grazingpastures where you would
ultimately need to do somere-leveling or grading of that
(27:25):
sediment to get it back intoshape for production.
Later.
There may be photos you need totake of physical structure
damage, like trees on farmbuildings, if that caused any
power outage, or if you hadelectrical systems inside of
those buildings that are a corefunctional piece of your farm,
(27:50):
such as power boxes that poweredyour water.
Well, if there's damage tothose systems, it would be
important to get evenphotographs of those smaller
components and then any areaswhere you were in active
production at the time of adisaster, such as your crop
fields, if that crop field wasin contact with flood water for
(28:14):
any amount of time.
You would need to have photosof not necessarily the crops
underwater that might not bepossible but photos of the state
of crops after the flood event,and then you would want to have
photos of any crops that arejust completely destroyed as
well.
Outside of flooding, the otherkind of water damage that can be
(28:38):
really significant for croploss is heavy rainfall that then
creates saturated soil, and ifit is so saturated after so much
rainfall that then the fieldbegins to flood due to rainfall
and not water flowing from onewater source onto your farm.
If that difference kind ofmakes sense, you'd still want to
(28:59):
have pictures of the cropdamage as a result of that
saturation.
When it comes to livestock death, it feels particularly
sensitive.
It feels really hard to tellsomeone to take pictures of
their dead livestock.
It feels even harder to tellthem to take a photo of where
they buried any dead livestock.
(29:21):
It's not an easy, easy thing toconvey.
However, if that farmer doeswant to have access to financial
assistance for those lossesafter the fact, it would be a
wise thing for them to do.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It sounds like the documentation part is really key
in this recovery phase and Ithink that even more so, it
sounds like the preparationbefore any kind of disaster
might be even more important,because I don't think there are
many folks that are.
Might be even more important,because I don't think there are
(29:59):
many folks that are, especiallythat are newer to the field of
farming, might know that beingable to document your field,
like you said, in the same angle, in the same spot, kind of
before everything happens, Ithink it's more common for folks
to obviously take those photosafter the fact.
If you come across, you knowgrowers that are not necessarily
documenting everything properly.
(30:20):
Are there other ways or otherkind of methods of evidence that
they can provide outside of apicture?
Or you know something that'smore tangible like that?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Absolutely.
I'm glad you asked that becausethe photos are just one part of
documentation so I can discussboth notes and then what's
called third party verificationof damage or losses.
So when it comes to takingnotes about damages and losses,
it's really important to notethe date of the damage, what the
(30:55):
source of the damage or thecause of the damage was from.
So when I differentiatedbetween your crop field being
flooded because the creek roseand flooded your cropland for
two hours, versus your cropsflooded because of heavy
rainfall, that makes a reallybig difference down the line.
So noting what the source ofthe damage or cause of the
(31:18):
damage was, and then when wetalk about the extent of the
damage, farmers will want todocument how much time they
spend up cleaning certaincategories of damage or losses.
So how much time do you spendafter the extreme weather event
cleaning up debris?
How much time does your machinerun?
(31:42):
If you have any on-farmequipment, if volunteers come to
your farm, their volunteer timecan count.
So counting the number ofvolunteers and the amount of
time they spend cleaning updebris and the amount of time
your neighbor spends and theirmachine run time.
So if they bring their skidsteer over to your property and
(32:05):
that machine is running for fourhours doing some leveling and
grading work.
You want to have a record ofthe time that they spent and the
reason that matters is if youwant a certain type of financial
assistance, you would need tobe able to demonstrate that
those activities were done.
The other kind of notes that canbe helpful are what level of
(32:27):
crop loss you experienced or thenumber of livestock lost.
So if you know you had howevermany acres of which crops were
planted, or if you're a smallscale producer, you know how
many hundred foot rows ofspecialty crops you had in
production, it's important totake note of the particular
(32:48):
amount of crops lost.
It might not mean there'sfinancial assistance for those
available yet, but it'simportant to have those in your
records.
For those available yet, butit's important to have those in
your records.
Then, as soon as a farmer isable, they should have somebody
who's a non-family member be awitness to the damage and losses
.
So this can be someone like aneighbor or a friend who comes
(33:10):
out to the farm and takes theirown notes about what they see,
what's the extent and type ofdamage and loss, and it can even
be fantastic if they take theirown pictures.
In certain weather events,especially one like Hurricane
Helene, the Farm Service Agency,fsa, has issued what's called
(33:30):
waivers that wouldn'tnecessarily require this level
of documentation from producersdue to the severity and wide
scale of the disaster event.
But not all disasters aretreated that way, and so if
farmers understood kind of atbare minimum, what kind of
documentation they should takeafter a storm or a weather event
(33:55):
, they would hold their foot inthe door for maybe maximized
assistance in the future.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah, I mean the overview of documentation that
you just provided I think is sokey, and thank you for you know,
kind of diving deeper into that, because I think that's really
critical for folks to hear, sothat, you know, they can have
that in the back of their mindswhen these kinds of things, you
know, take place, becauseoftentimes we don't see a lot of
(34:23):
these things coming and so it'shard, I think, for a lot of
these farmers and ranchers tokind of have that list of
preparation ready to go, youknow, in their head.
And so this is, you know,really important, and I know
that there are a lot ofdifferent recovery programs that
exist from, you know, withlivestock assistance, farm loans
(34:46):
, farmland damage, crop losses,crop insurance and cleanup, and
I'm sure we could spend, youknow, an episode on each one of
those things.
But I would love to hear alittle bit about some of the key
programs that exist withinthose, and maybe maybe some of
the ones that are the mostcommonly used or not known about
(35:08):
as much as maybe they should be.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, and I will just emphasize again, we could spend
an episode on each of theseprograms, because, you know,
something that I'm thinkingabout as we're having this
conversation is that each farmis unique and complex and out
operates.
Every disaster is unique andcomplex, and so disaster
programs have to stretch a lotin order to fit these different
(35:35):
situations, and so they can besort of complex and unique in
their own way.
So there is this again, thiswhole list of different programs
with interesting acronyms thatcan come on board.
I would say they generally fallinto the categories of recovery
for livestock damage and losses, crop losses or damage damage
(35:59):
to farmland or conservationefforts, and then for folks that
may just be kind of strugglingwith lack of access to credit.
In terms of the livestock andthe crop losses, some of the
things that come into play areLiv indemnity program, LIP, the
non-insured disaster assistanceprogram, which is known as NAP.
(36:21):
I think those are kind of thetwo biggest, and then there's
others that are specific tolivestock forage, tree
assistance, bees and fish andother types of feed that are
stored.
So again, you can get reallydeep into those, but the basics
of it is that you are, as afarmer, trying to quantify the
(36:42):
value of the loss or the damagethat has occurred to your crop
and livestock and then FSA isable to provide a percentage of
what that loss was.
It's not making you whole, butit's going to provide a certain
degree of replacement of thatlost crop or livestock In terms
(37:04):
of the farmland damage.
If you're thinking about, well,the whole scope of soil loss or
water contamination, things likethat, there are programs that
can help with the repair ofdifferent conservation
enhancements, like the EmergencyConservation Program ECP is one
that we're working on a lotright now and if we want to get
(37:27):
into that more, Jay would havemore information as well as the
NRCS EQIP program program ifthey just want to do new
conservation enhancements, andthose operate as cost shares.
So a farmer is going to bepaying for some sort of repair
enhancement and NRCS willprovide a portion of what that
(37:49):
cost is.
And then, in terms of capital,if folks are having issues with
access to funds, FSA provides anemergency loan program and
there's also a disasterset-aside program.
So if a farmer has an existingloan and is not going to be able
to make their next payment,they can defer for a certain
(38:09):
amount of time.
So a wide assortment ofdifferent programs that each are
complex but can assist indifferent sort of functions of
the farm and different types ofdamage or loss.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Absolutely.
And is there one place thatfolks listening can go to kind
of see an overview of theserecovery programs and learn more
about those?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, there's a really great page on our website
that lists a number of theseprograms with in-depth
information.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
You can also go to referenced on Raffi's website
will have kind of a chart thatidentifies each of these
(39:03):
individual programs andpractically what they support a
farmer with and kind of at whatstage after a disaster.
So it's a great starting placebecause it's also in plain
language terms.
To complement that there'ssomething called the disaster
assistance tool on farmersgovand that disaster tool has you
(39:24):
indicate, kind of the size ofyour farm, what types of
agricultural products you had inproduction, what kind of storm
or weather event created damageor losses, and then exactly what
was damaged and lost, and thattool will give you a list of the
(39:44):
programs it thinks and I say itright, A computer generates a
list of what it thinks you willbe eligible for.
But we have found in some casesthat there's some cracks in
that tool, right, and so justbecause you don't see the
program that you thought you'dbe eligible for not listed there
(40:09):
doesn't mean it's not available.
But that is a tool and it's notavailable, but that is a tool
and it's at least a startingpoint.
One thing we've done withfarmers after Hurricane Milton
and Hurricane Helene, and wewill probably do going forward
in extreme weather events, ishelping farmers decipher what
(40:30):
they are eligible for Because,as Lisa said, every farm is so
unique and even in a region likeWestern North Carolina the
damage to one farm isn't thesame damage to the farm next
door.
So by offering some tailoredtechnical assistance we can
really understand the extent ofdamage and loss on a farm and
(40:54):
then be the filter for thefarmer.
We take our knowledge of theseindividual programs and on the
spot can identify which ones wethink they should spend their
time and effort applying for,and there will be some that
they're probably eligible for.
But is it really worth theirtime applying for that program?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, see, that's great to know that you guys
serve kind of as, like that, themiddleman to see what different
farmers and ranchers, like yousaid, might be eligible for and
kind of filter through all theinformation, cause I think that
it's kind of, you know,information overload to some
people and they get a little bitoverwhelmed with all that is
(41:33):
out there and not knowing kindof where to start.
So it's great to know that youguys exist and have the
opportunity to kind of lend ahand and have, you know, the
technical assistance componentso that folks are not kind of
stuck in the weeds.
We are definitely alsointerested in just touching on
(41:54):
what you know allies can do tohelp and our role as farmer
advocates, rancher advocates, tosupport people in need in these
times of crisis.
So I would love to hear fromyou guys, you know, what are
some of the action steps somefolks can take to become an ally
.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yeah, I can start with some thoughts and, jamie,
I'd be curious for yours as well, in terms of this role that
you're just describing of beingthis middle entity of helping
farmers find their way.
That's something that, yeah,we've seen is so helpful.
I would never expect a farmerto know all these programs so
deeply that they can make thesedecisions in these moments of
(42:37):
crisis.
So one thing that RAFI is doingright now is developing a
training for folks that want tohave some of this knowledge
about different disasterprograms, who could potentially
connect with farmers andunderstand what their damage is
and then point them in the rightdirection for programs they
could access.
And we have that traininghappening later this week and I
(43:01):
think there'll likely be more tocome.
But just even the points thatwe've mentioned today about
having a farmer write down thedamage, take pictures, be that
third-party verification, oreven just be on a phone call
when they are in a, a meeting,when they go into their USDA
service center to be theirsecond pair of ears, because
(43:22):
they are an information overloadand having a person to
accompany them makes adifference.
So that's what I would say.
Jamie, do you have otherthoughts?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Lisa, I actually have a quick question for you about
the training.
Is that open to anyone?
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Lisa, I actually have a quick question for you about
the training Is that open toanyone?
We are opening it to anyone andwe're really focusing on
different organizations that arealready connected with farmers
in some way.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And, like I mentioned , I believe there's going to be
more in the future, but at thevery least that's going to get
recorded and put on our websiteif folks want to go and watch
that.
Incredible, okay, great, yeah,and we will definitely include
some of these links in the abouttext for this episode.
So folks can, you know,definitely try to learn more
(44:06):
about how they can get involvedand, jamie, I would love to hear
from you as well sure.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So the perspective I might bring for how allies could
help comes from my experiencein a lot of grassroots level
work.
So seeing the skills andfinancial assets of community
members who are non-affected andhow those are applied to
affected individuals seems tojust activate so quickly after
(44:33):
disasters seems to just activateso quickly after disasters.
I used to live in Western NorthCarolina for about 10 years and
seeing the community responseand even the farm to farm
response supporting farmersafter disaster has been really
incredible.
And it's also very taxing to thevery small organizations that
(44:56):
have small numbers of staff andvery small budgets but they're
trying to do the most they canwith the most they have.
And any ways that the generalpublic can support with monetary
donations or contributions tothese organizations that really
know farmers well, theyunderstand the farmers'
(45:17):
immediate needs and how thoseimmediate needs are changing on
a day-to-day or week-to-weekbasis can really go a long way.
And for community residents whohave very specific skill sets,
it's been pretty amazing to seehow neighbors can rebuild a
bridge in just three days timeto provide access to not just a
(45:41):
farmer's land but otherresidents land that have now
become inaccessible.
So this event in Western NorthCarolina has been a very strong
demonstration of mutual aid andgrassroots support, and I can't
speak to what's happening inFlorida with Milton per se, but
(46:01):
I wonder, if it's the same and Ihope in future disasters as
they seem to be more severe andmore prevalent, how we're going
to continue to see thatoutpouring of local donations
and skills to support theagricultural community.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, I mean we definitely have seen a similar
thing happen as a result ofHurricane Helene and Milton in
the state of Florida, as far ascommunities coming together, and
you know it's really telling tosee just community members
wanting to be involved inpicking the pieces back up, so
it is really inspiring to seethat.
(46:39):
And, on that note, I wanted tosee if there are state specific
resources that farmers andranchers can find, specifically
from Rafi, and also if you areable to share any information
related to you know farmers thatare transitioning to certified
(47:00):
organic and you know how tonavigate that when it comes to
possibly finding some moreresources in that regard.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
I can talk a bit about, yeah, state by state
resources.
I think again there's a blog onour website that includes some
of the specific state-by-stateresources In general.
You know, all the things thatwe've been mentioning for these
farm programs are federalprograms and so that's going to
be, you know, similar, but it isup to kind of state agencies to
(47:33):
determine specific parametersor waivers or things like that.
So getting in touch with localor with kind of the state FSA
and RCS offices is helpful.
There's also, like DSNAP,disastersnap, disaster
Unemployment Assistance.
These things can lookdifferently in different states
and require kind of specificresearch.
(47:56):
So again, I would take a look atour website, but otherwise, you
know, just really Googlingspecific like this state, this
resource, because it can beexpressed very differently in
different regions.
And then in terms of the youknow, assistance for folks that
are transitioning to organic.
I think you know we I don'tknow if we have as much that
(48:16):
we've done on that already,beyond just the questions about,
like, water contamination, soilcontamination.
Jamie, have you seen anythingelse around that topic?
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I have a fair bit in terms of crop safety after an
event.
Small scale producers who, ifthey're growing on a small scale
basis and I'm talking likemaybe five acres of less, a very
intensive vegetable productionand specialty crop production,
(48:48):
these growers, if they lost afield, they may have lost every
bit of their crop.
They may have lost every bit oftheir crop, and so it would be
vital to understand, you know,what kind of water contact on
those crops would deem themunsafe.
So a lot of questions arecoming up around crop safety.
(49:08):
Our North Carolina extensioncooperative extension has been
an invaluable resource gettinginformation about crop safety
and that water contamination.
Then, when it comes to wellsafety, the local health
department, I think, has beenthe best source of information
for farmers, understanding howto treat or shock their wells
(49:31):
after potential contamination.
Those two things are what cometo mind your potential
contamination.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Those two things are what come to mind.
Amazing.
Well, we are so so you knowlucky to have you guys on our
show today to share all of theseresources.
So a huge, huge thank you toboth of you, lisa and Jamie, for
joining us and sharing reallysuch valuable insights into the
challenges and triumphs ofdisaster relief and resilience
in the farming world.
Speaker 4 (49:56):
Of course, thanks for having us.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Your work at RAFI is a testament to the power of
community support policyadvocacy and sustainable farming
practices and, as we've heardtoday, when farmers have access
to the right tools andtechnology and resources,
they're able to recover fromcrises and build even stronger,
more resilient operations.
So, whether it's helpingfarmers conserve their land,
(50:22):
expand their market access orcreate action plans in the face
of disaster, organizations likeRAFI USA are making a real
difference.
If you want to learn more aboutRAFI's programs and how you can
support their mission, be sureto check out our show notes and
remember, every time you supporta small farm or advocate for
sustainable practices, you'replaying a part in building a
(50:44):
more equitable food system.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you next time on
Fresh Take.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Photoorganic Growers is a 501c3nonprofit organization, so to
keep our content available andfree to the public, we need your
help.
Please subscribe, rate andreview wherever you listen and
consider making a tax deductibledonation or become a sponsor.
Learn more about our work andhow you can become a sponsor
from our website, wwwboginfoorg.
Welcome to Fresh Take , where we at Florida Organic
Growers speak to food systemsexperts about topics related to
organic and sustainableagriculture, healthy lifestyles
and the environment.
To help us continue ourprograms at FOG, including our
podcast, consider becoming asponsor.
For more information onsponsorship, check out our Get
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg out our Get
(00:28):
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome back to Fresh Take.
I am your host, lana Shahabedin, and today we're diving into a
powerful and timely topicdisaster relief and resilience
in the farming community.
When natural disasters strike,farmers often find themselves on
the front lines, facingenormous losses and challenges
that can disrupt theirlivelihoods and impact the
entire food system.
We'll explore how farmers canrebuild and thrive even in the
(00:51):
face of adversity, and thecritical role that disaster
relief and support play inhelping them make a comeback.
Joining us today are twodedicated and inspiring leaders
from RAFI USA.
Rafi stands for RuralAdvancement Foundation
International Lisa Misch,Managing Director of Programs,
and Jamie McGirt, agriculturalConservation and Market Access
(01:13):
Manager.
Together, lisa and Jamie bringa wealth of knowledge and
practical experience to today'sconversation.
They'll share insights on howdisaster relief efforts work in
farming, the unique challengesrural communities face and the
critical need for building asupport system that enables
farmers to recover and thrive.
Welcome to our show, ladies.
(01:34):
Good to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So excited to have you both here today, and before
we get you know started in termsof discussing more of Rafi's
vision and missions, I wouldlove to dive into your
backgrounds and whatspecifically you each focus on.
So, lisa, I'd like to start offwith you and learning more
about how you came to Rafi, whatyour you know background
(02:03):
entails, and how and how younavigate disaster relief in your
role.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Yeah, so I started at RAFI about seven and a half
years ago and my original rolewas with farmers markets and
helping farmers marketsimplement SNAP incentive
programs around the state as ameans of increasing food access
for the community.
From that project I moved tomany different areas of RAFI's
work, including several years ofhurricanes and being able to
(02:35):
jump into farmer assistance andresponse work.
Over time, I've spent more ofmy work focusing on our
federally funded programs andhelping manage and expand them.
So currently, in my role asmanaging director of programs, I
oversee most of our programsthat involve direct assistance
(02:57):
with farmers, helping themaccess programs or resources,
and that includes a lot of ourwork right now around helping
farmers get connected withexisting USDA resources that are
there to help them in times ofcrisis.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's great.
I love that you have abackground in farmers, markets
and SNAP coordination, becausethat's obviously a really
integral role in our food systemas well, and I'm excited to
hear more about your role as wedig deeper into this topic.
And, jamie, I would love toalso hear, similar to Lisa, how
(03:34):
you came into this position asAgricultural Conservation and
Market Access Manager and whatthat really means.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Sure.
So I came to RAFI with abackground in some natural
resource conservation as well asagricultural production.
I've been working at thegrassroots level and began doing
statewide grassroots supportwork and that brought me to RAFI
and I love being able to shiftto direct farmer technical
(04:05):
assistance.
That was about two and a halfyears ago and at RAFI since I've
shifted between a couple ofprograms, but what I love doing
most is providing directtechnical assistance, helping
farmers access USDA programs.
Direct technical assistancehelping farmers access USDA
(04:31):
programs, particularly thosethat help them improve natural
resource conservation on theirfarmland.
Farmers do that veryproactively and then after a
natural disaster, I'm findingit's kind of first and top of
mind for producers when they'rebeginning to recover.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Absolutely, and I love that you also bring this
background in grassroots,because FOG Florida Organic
Growers is also a grassrootsorganization and so we
definitely align with the ideaof being farmers for farmers,
kind of thing.
So we love to hear that andit's great that you guys are
(05:03):
both providing this hands-onwork directly for this
population that really canbenefit from the support
programs that are out there.
So, for folks that are notfamiliar with Rafi and are not
sure what you guys really do asa whole, can you tell us, lisa,
(05:24):
a bit about your vision andmission?
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah, so Raffi is based in Pittsburgh, north
Carolina, but serves farmers andfarm communities across the
Southeast and US Caribbeanislands.
Our mission is challenging theroot causes of unjust food
systems and supporting andadvocating for economically,
racially and ecologically justfarm communities.
So, within that mission, whatwe're really looking for is a
(05:51):
thriving and equitable foodsystem where communities have
dignity to agency, where they'resupported by just policies and
where the corporations andinstitutions around them are
accountable to the communitiesthat they impact around them are
accountable to the communitiesthat they impact, incredible.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I mean.
That's that's a mouthfulEconomically, racially and
ecologically.
Just farm communities.
That's a really big, you knowtarget, I think.
And so in that kind of work,you know what, what kind of
programs do you guys currentlywork on and how is it addressing
those things?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yes, and we do have those three economically,
racially and ecologically pairedtogether because they form that
holistic change that we hope tosee.
So our programs are focusedfirst on the direct, on the
ground assistance and havingthat build up the foundation
towards systemic change.
(06:48):
So direct service programsinclude projects that help
farmers access resources orservices.
So this includes our farmadvocacy program, which helps
provide financial counseling tofarmers that are in crisis.
We have a Farmers of ColorNetwork that is comprised of
over 900 farmers across 13states and US Virgin Islands,
(07:10):
puerto Rico, connecting themwith services and educational
opportunities.
Our Resources for ResilientFarms project, which I think
I'll be able to talk about a bitlater, is specifically geared
towards connecting farmers withUSDA programs.
We also have work around JustFoods, developing regionally
(07:31):
resilient seed varieties andchallenging corporate power and
emboldening farmers to challengecorporate power that's existing
within their farm communitiesthat is limiting their viability
and success.
Beyond just work directly withfarmers, we help farmers and
communities connect and empowereach other.
So our Come to the Tableprogram is designed around
(07:53):
helping faith communities beempowered to contribute towards
a just food system and connectwith farmers in their area.
And then, through all this work, we are also helping support
connecting farmers with localmarkets.
This on the ground work thenfeeds into our policy program
and our team and we mainly workon a federal level as opposed to
(08:13):
state.
But in that regard we'relooking at opportunities to
influence policies at theadministrative and agency level
and the legislative level thatare going to address sort of the
common barriers and issues thatwe see when we are working with
farmers on the ground tocontribute towards that systemic
change.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Wow, I mean, that's a lot of different things that
you guys are doing and it's allreally vital in terms of you
know being able to connectpeople and offering a network
and really just kind of thisumbrella group of you know
tackling different aspects ofequity and justice in the food
(08:55):
system.
So I'm wondering you guysmentioned USDA programs in your
introductions and also theemphasis of helping connecting
farmers with resources, so canyou dive a little bit deeper
into what exactly that lookslike and how you help them
navigate some of the things thatare out there?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Sure, yeah, and this touches on the Resources for
Resilient Farms program Imentioned, which the mission of
that program is to provide plainlanguage education and
one-on-one technical assistanceto farmers that want to access
USDA programs and services andspecifically farmers that have
(09:38):
been historically underserved byUSDA agencies.
So within that work, it can beall the way from like light
touch introduction assistance,getting farmers connected with
USDA, to really in-depth.
So when I say like light touch,just getting a farmer
established with their localUSDA office if they have never
(09:59):
worked with them before is areally big step towards getting
them closer to accessingservices.
So that could be helping themget their farm number or getting
those initial documents set up,making sure that they know
where their local service centeris.
That work is helpful in thedisaster work that we'll talk
(10:21):
about.
It's really foundational.
And then, when we get intospecific programs, like Jamie's,
work is with NRCS.
That involves talking with thefarmer about what their goals
are and really thinking about itbroadly as what is this
farmer's holistic goal, and thendoing sort of the like, the
bridging or the connection ofthis is what I'm hearing.
(10:42):
These are the certain NRCSprograms that could help you
reach that goal.
And now I'll help you thinkthrough the application process,
explain what the timeline isgoing to be and be sort of that
guiding navigator as they workthrough a process which
otherwise they would.
They might be doing completelyon their own or, you know, might
get varying degrees of supportfrom their local service center.
(11:04):
So that's the real goal of thatprogram and we do NRCS program
support and we also have workedwith FSA loans and the emergency
programs within FSA.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
That's incredible and for those that are listening
who are not familiar with NRCSor FSA, can you tell us what
those stand for and what thoseorganizations typically do?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
loans, access to credit for farmers, as well as
kind of collection of riskmanagement programs to assist
farmers in different disastersor crises.
And NRCS is the NaturalResource Conservation Service,
which is focused on helpingfarmers implement conservation
practices.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes, I mean, there's so many acronyms out there right
In the food system, and funnybecause to us a lot of these
things we throw around on adaily basis, but we might have
some folks listening that arepretty new to the farming
industry and might not be asfamiliar.
So thank you for explaining thatand giving us some clarity.
(12:22):
And you know, we definitelywant to kind of switch gears a
little bit and talk about theimpact of natural disasters,
especially in the agriculturalworld, and how this really
affects the folks working inthis field.
And so I think you know a lotof the times when we see a
(12:43):
hurricane coming and you knowother types of natural disasters
that are headed our way, ourfirst thought is not really
what's going to happen to thefarmers.
It's really, you know, more ofa individualistic perspective of
okay, I need to prep my home,my family need to get all the
necessities, my family needs toget all the necessities.
(13:09):
So you know, I'd love to fleshout this idea that, well, all of
our agricultural actors arealso really affected by this,
and I'd like to hear from youguys how you know well, first of
all, what kinds of disasterstypically affect farmers and
what normally happens to themduring this time?
What are the main things thatyou guys see in your work and
(13:30):
how do you try to address that?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
So I would describe disasters, as they relate to
farmland, as significant weatherevents, and these weather
events can happen acutely, theycan also happen over a long term
, and the types of acutedisasters or short term
(13:53):
disasters that we commonly seeinclude hurricanes, which bring
significant flooding, we'velearned.
They can bring landslides, theycan bring strong wind damage
and just heavy saturation fromdays of rainfall.
But then there are also longerterm disaster events, such as
(14:16):
drought or long periods ofprecipitation that would create
these flooding or otherconditions.
So programs that assist withdisaster recovery depend on the
type of weather event thatoccurred and the duration of
that weather event weather eventthat occurred and the duration
(14:37):
of that weather event and basedon those events, the USDA will
activate certain programs thatwould assist farmers for those
disasters.
And the kinds of activitiesthat we see during these
different disaster or weatherevents really range widely.
What we have seen this season in2024, with hurricanes, is that
(15:01):
there are a lot of disasterevents associated with just a
single storm.
So, with a hurricane bringingextreme flooding and heavy
rainfall, landslides, winddamage, we see everything from
contamination of soil and waterbodies as well as below ground
(15:22):
water sources like water wellsbeing compromised after being
flooded.
We see a mass amount of topsoillost in the event of flooding,
and then we also see the soilcolumn being affected when there
have been heavy rains andrainfall has saturated that soil
(15:43):
column.
All of these things lead to theloss of harvest or production.
So farmers who've had harvestedcrops that are in storage might
be affected by power outages ortotal washout as a result of a
flood, whereas products that arestill in production, whether
they're crops or they'relivestock, may be destroyed or
(16:07):
there can be significantlivestock death Following the
event.
There is increasedsusceptibility to disease.
A lot of us are wondering whatis going to happen in the seed
bank after an extreme floodingevent and what will farmers face
in terms of weed pressure now,the year or more after a
(16:30):
disaster event.
And then there comes the lossor destruction to supplies and
infrastructure, everything fromirrigation systems that are
damaged or washed away, hightunnels can be completely
flattened or you may have just alittle bit of plastic damage.
Fencing can have tree debrisfrom tree fall, or, if
(16:56):
floodwaters actually rise andrun over fence lines, you can
get a lot of trash and sand andsilt debris piled up on those
fence lines, creating damage.
Wow, so essentially it's areally long list actually of the
effect of even just one weatherevent on a single farm.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, I mean, that's an extensive list of things that
can happen, and it seems that alot of those things would be
really hard to recover from.
So what do you guys typicallysee in relation to the recovery
process?
You know what does that mean tothe farmer.
How do they, how do they goabout picking themselves back up
(17:38):
when something like thathappens to their farm?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Well, from our experience this year, it can
really range.
I think it first depends on thedegree or significance of
damage or losses.
One thing that's been notablein 2024 is the loss of essential
functions in their communitycreates just an enormous level
(18:25):
of grief and I think someindecision and what seems to
come first is farmers' abilityto kind of cope with that level
of loss.
So how long does it take torecover for farmers who had
every level of damage?
(18:46):
We're hearing that it is goingto take years, particularly the
loss of topsoil.
When a farmer is described thatthey spent 13 years building up
that topsoil layer and now in asingle flood they've lost over
a foot of that topsoil, that's adevastating loss that just
can't be reapplied in one year.
(19:08):
Like a new high tunnelstructure could be heartbreaking
.
Yeah, so that's why I say likeit really varies and then,
depending on their financialposition and their ability to
foot the bill of recovery upfront can really determine their
recovery phases.
So how quickly can theypurchase supplies and equipment
(19:30):
and infrastructure to get backinto immediate production?
What is the state of soilcontamination?
What rest period will that soilneed before crops can be
replanted?
And, lisa, would you addanything else there?
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Yeah, I was going that direction of what you were
just saying.
You know, immediately after adisaster, I think the immediate
response for farmers is thecleanup stage of triage.
You know fixing fences iflivestock got out, clearing
debris and you know trees acrossroads.
And then it moves into thatquestion of, ok, yeah, how can I
(20:08):
get back into some form ofproduction.
Think a lot of farms you knowat least in 2024, may need to
kind of, yeah, rethink theirfarming approach and what they
can potentially grow in the nextyear and what markets will be
available.
I mean, that's not somethingwe've mentioned yet.
But another impact of disastersis just the impact to the local
(20:32):
food economy, which thenimpacts them.
So some farms may have minimalinfrastructure and physical
damage but a restaurant may beclosed that they sold to.
So it does just impact theentire farm business plan.
And, yeah, after the immediateresponse, you're talking about a
multi-year recovery plan topotentially get things back to
(20:56):
where they want to be recoveryplan to potentially get things
back to where they want to be.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, I mean, you guys touched on a couple of
things that really struck achord.
Also, you know one the mentalhealth aspect of this is like
that level of grief that youexperience must be really high
and coming back from that istough.
And then there's also thecommunity that's impacted.
That could be that localrestaurant that's sourcing from
(21:21):
the farm or even the farmer'smarkets.
So there's a lot of seems to beconnections between, obviously,
the impact on the farm and thenthe outside community, even
including the average consumer.
So anyone that's listeningthat's not actively a grower or
(21:43):
a rancher.
There's always going to beimpacts that we might feel on
our end.
So different organizations areobviously out there to help
farmers navigate this kind ofdisaster relief.
I know, obviously, floridaOrganic Growers.
We have our own hurricaneresources page on our homepage,
(22:05):
foginfoorg.
But I'm curious to hear therole of Rafi and how you guys
navigate the disaster relief,specifically in the resources
that you provide and you knowthe actual steps you take once a
disaster hits.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, maybe Lisa, you want to share broadly and then
I can dive in to any details.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yeah, that sounds good, so I can take you know
this.
Hurricane Helene is an exampleof what response can look like
where you know, first we arejust trying to understand, like,
what is happening on the ground, how are farmers being impacted
?
So we reach out to farmerswhere we have known connections
and you know, assess like arethey OK, what has happened on
(22:52):
their farm or in their area, ontheir farm or in their area.
Once we've started to get anassessment of what's happening
on the ground, we also want tounderstand what federal programs
are starting to switch on.
And there's a whole acronymlist of different programs that
may turn on and each can be alittle different in terms of
(23:13):
when it can be activated.
You know whether a federaldisaster area has been
officially declared or whether acounty needs to request that a
program come online.
It can vary.
So there's just a lot ofclarification that our policy
team has taken on of reachingout to national, state and local
USDA offices and then our workis getting that information back
(23:36):
to farmers and getting thatinformation back to
organizations or kind of trustedcommunity members that can be
that conduit of information tofarmers during kind of this
tumultuous time.
Another important part of ourwork is getting that like
initial, really importantinformation to farmers about how
(23:57):
to document what's happened ontheir farm and how to contact a
USDA service center so that theycan tap into these programs.
Jamie, I don't know, do youwant to talk more about that
piece of it?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Sure.
So Lisa mentions like the kindof first line of support being
the first information theyshould have, and that translates
to what steps would they needto take initially?
And those are important to know, I think, in advance of
disasters as well as in themoments after a disaster,
(24:31):
because once the disaster struckwe have the difficulty of
moving through the loss and thegrief of that, and so taking in
information and being able todecipher it and understand how
it applies to you after thatdisaster event is just more
stressful and it's moredifficult Absolutely.
So one thing we try to doproactively is help farmers
(24:54):
understand after the disasterevent what are the first steps
they should take, and one ofthose is documentation.
It helps tremendously to evenhave a good practice of
documenting the activities oftheir farm and what production
looks like before a disasterevent.
For farmers who do a lot ofpromotion of their farm on
(25:15):
social media, this might comeeasy because you have a stack of
photos on hand showing whatlevel of production you were in
before the storm.
One recommendation I would haveis kind of have a couple areas
on your farm where you justconsistently take a photo in the
same angle or direction acouple of times a year just to
document what kind of the bigpicture of your farm looks like,
(25:39):
Because when it comes time toreporting what kind of damage or
losses you had after extremeweather events, you need to be
able to demonstrate what wasthere before and thus what was
lost or damaged.
Some important things I thinkto document after a storm would
(25:59):
be any sand or silt rock debristhat has been deposited on your
farm after flooding, any treedebris from trees falling or
trees being swept throughfloodwaters on your farm
property, particularly any ofthis debris that ends up on
(26:20):
fence lines, creating damage ordamage to buildings on the
inside or outside.
Other kinds of debris might betrash, whether it's from your
own farm, such as that hightunnel that's now been destroyed
, or if you had plastic rowcover, landscape fabric that's
now tangled and deep buried intosand and silt, that kind of
(26:43):
material would count as trash.
But after a large floodingevent, you may also have trash
from off the farm that's nowbeen deposited on your land, and
then you may have damage likeyour crop fields or your grazing
pastures are now uneven, sosediment has washed or gullied,
(27:05):
and so you have these kind ofdeep rivets that now make your
production after the storm morechallenging.
So you would want to takepictures of this kind of
misshapen crop or grazingpastures where you would
ultimately need to do somere-leveling or grading of that
(27:25):
sediment to get it back intoshape for production.
Later.
There may be photos you need totake of physical structure
damage, like trees on farmbuildings, if that caused any
power outage, or if you hadelectrical systems inside of
those buildings that are a corefunctional piece of your farm,
(27:50):
such as power boxes that poweredyour water.
Well, if there's damage tothose systems, it would be
important to get evenphotographs of those smaller
components and then any areaswhere you were in active
production at the time of adisaster, such as your crop
fields, if that crop field wasin contact with flood water for
(28:14):
any amount of time.
You would need to have photosof not necessarily the crops
underwater that might not bepossible but photos of the state
of crops after the flood event,and then you would want to have
photos of any crops that arejust completely destroyed as
well.
Outside of flooding, the otherkind of water damage that can be
(28:38):
really significant for croploss is heavy rainfall that then
creates saturated soil, and ifit is so saturated after so much
rainfall that then the fieldbegins to flood due to rainfall
and not water flowing from onewater source onto your farm.
If that difference kind ofmakes sense, you'd still want to
(28:59):
have pictures of the cropdamage as a result of that
saturation.
When it comes to livestock death, it feels particularly
sensitive.
It feels really hard to tellsomeone to take pictures of
their dead livestock.
It feels even harder to tellthem to take a photo of where
they buried any dead livestock.
(29:21):
It's not an easy, easy thing toconvey.
However, if that farmer doeswant to have access to financial
assistance for those lossesafter the fact, it would be a
wise thing for them to do.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It sounds like the documentation part is really key
in this recovery phase and Ithink that even more so, it
sounds like the preparationbefore any kind of disaster
might be even more important,because I don't think there are
many folks that are.
Might be even more important,because I don't think there are
(29:59):
many folks that are, especiallythat are newer to the field of
farming, might know that beingable to document your field,
like you said, in the same angle, in the same spot, kind of
before everything happens, Ithink it's more common for folks
to obviously take those photosafter the fact.
If you come across, you knowgrowers that are not necessarily
documenting everything properly.
(30:20):
Are there other ways or otherkind of methods of evidence that
they can provide outside of apicture?
Or you know something that'smore tangible like that?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Absolutely.
I'm glad you asked that becausethe photos are just one part of
documentation so I can discussboth notes and then what's
called third party verificationof damage or losses.
So when it comes to takingnotes about damages and losses,
it's really important to notethe date of the damage, what the
(30:55):
source of the damage or thecause of the damage was from.
So when I differentiatedbetween your crop field being
flooded because the creek roseand flooded your cropland for
two hours, versus your cropsflooded because of heavy
rainfall, that makes a reallybig difference down the line.
So noting what the source ofthe damage or cause of the
(31:18):
damage was, and then when wetalk about the extent of the
damage, farmers will want todocument how much time they
spend up cleaning certaincategories of damage or losses.
So how much time do you spendafter the extreme weather event
cleaning up debris?
How much time does your machinerun?
(31:42):
If you have any on-farmequipment, if volunteers come to
your farm, their volunteer timecan count.
So counting the number ofvolunteers and the amount of
time they spend cleaning updebris and the amount of time
your neighbor spends and theirmachine run time.
So if they bring their skidsteer over to your property and
(32:05):
that machine is running for fourhours doing some leveling and
grading work.
You want to have a record ofthe time that they spent and the
reason that matters is if youwant a certain type of financial
assistance, you would need tobe able to demonstrate that
those activities were done.
The other kind of notes that canbe helpful are what level of
(32:27):
crop loss you experienced or thenumber of livestock lost.
So if you know you had howevermany acres of which crops were
planted, or if you're a smallscale producer, you know how
many hundred foot rows ofspecialty crops you had in
production, it's important totake note of the particular
(32:48):
amount of crops lost.
It might not mean there'sfinancial assistance for those
available yet, but it'simportant to have those in your
records.
For those available yet, butit's important to have those in
your records.
Then, as soon as a farmer isable, they should have somebody
who's a non-family member be awitness to the damage and losses
.
So this can be someone like aneighbor or a friend who comes
(33:10):
out to the farm and takes theirown notes about what they see,
what's the extent and type ofdamage and loss, and it can even
be fantastic if they take theirown pictures.
In certain weather events,especially one like Hurricane
Helene, the Farm Service Agency,fsa, has issued what's called
(33:30):
waivers that wouldn'tnecessarily require this level
of documentation from producersdue to the severity and wide
scale of the disaster event.
But not all disasters aretreated that way, and so if
farmers understood kind of atbare minimum, what kind of
documentation they should takeafter a storm or a weather event
(33:55):
, they would hold their foot inthe door for maybe maximized
assistance in the future.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah, I mean the overview of documentation that
you just provided I think is sokey, and thank you for you know,
kind of diving deeper into that, because I think that's really
critical for folks to hear, sothat, you know, they can have
that in the back of their mindswhen these kinds of things, you
know, take place, becauseoftentimes we don't see a lot of
(34:23):
these things coming and so it'shard, I think, for a lot of
these farmers and ranchers tokind of have that list of
preparation ready to go, youknow, in their head.
And so this is, you know,really important, and I know
that there are a lot ofdifferent recovery programs that
exist from, you know, withlivestock assistance, farm loans
(34:46):
, farmland damage, crop losses,crop insurance and cleanup, and
I'm sure we could spend, youknow, an episode on each one of
those things.
But I would love to hear alittle bit about some of the key
programs that exist withinthose, and maybe maybe some of
the ones that are the mostcommonly used or not known about
(35:08):
as much as maybe they should be.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, and I will just emphasize again, we could spend
an episode on each of theseprograms, because, you know,
something that I'm thinkingabout as we're having this
conversation is that each farmis unique and complex and out
operates.
Every disaster is unique andcomplex, and so disaster
programs have to stretch a lotin order to fit these different
(35:35):
situations, and so they can besort of complex and unique in
their own way.
So there is this again, thiswhole list of different programs
with interesting acronyms thatcan come on board.
I would say they generally fallinto the categories of recovery
for livestock damage and losses, crop losses or damage damage
(35:59):
to farmland or conservationefforts, and then for folks that
may just be kind of strugglingwith lack of access to credit.
In terms of the livestock andthe crop losses, some of the
things that come into play areLiv indemnity program, LIP, the
non-insured disaster assistanceprogram, which is known as NAP.
(36:21):
I think those are kind of thetwo biggest, and then there's
others that are specific tolivestock forage, tree
assistance, bees and fish andother types of feed that are
stored.
So again, you can get reallydeep into those, but the basics
of it is that you are, as afarmer, trying to quantify the
(36:42):
value of the loss or the damagethat has occurred to your crop
and livestock and then FSA isable to provide a percentage of
what that loss was.
It's not making you whole, butit's going to provide a certain
degree of replacement of thatlost crop or livestock In terms
(37:04):
of the farmland damage.
If you're thinking about, well,the whole scope of soil loss or
water contamination, things likethat, there are programs that
can help with the repair ofdifferent conservation
enhancements, like the EmergencyConservation Program ECP is one
that we're working on a lotright now and if we want to get
(37:27):
into that more, Jay would havemore information as well as the
NRCS EQIP program program ifthey just want to do new
conservation enhancements, andthose operate as cost shares.
So a farmer is going to bepaying for some sort of repair
enhancement and NRCS willprovide a portion of what that
(37:49):
cost is.
And then, in terms of capital,if folks are having issues with
access to funds, FSA provides anemergency loan program and
there's also a disasterset-aside program.
So if a farmer has an existingloan and is not going to be able
to make their next payment,they can defer for a certain
(38:09):
amount of time.
So a wide assortment ofdifferent programs that each are
complex but can assist indifferent sort of functions of
the farm and different types ofdamage or loss.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Absolutely.
And is there one place thatfolks listening can go to kind
of see an overview of theserecovery programs and learn more
about those?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, there's a really great page on our website
that lists a number of theseprograms with in-depth
information.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
You can also go to referenced on Raffi's website
will have kind of a chart thatidentifies each of these
(39:03):
individual programs andpractically what they support a
farmer with and kind of at whatstage after a disaster.
So it's a great starting placebecause it's also in plain
language terms.
To complement that there'ssomething called the disaster
assistance tool on farmersgovand that disaster tool has you
(39:24):
indicate, kind of the size ofyour farm, what types of
agricultural products you had inproduction, what kind of storm
or weather event created damageor losses, and then exactly what
was damaged and lost, and thattool will give you a list of the
(39:44):
programs it thinks and I say itright, A computer generates a
list of what it thinks you willbe eligible for.
But we have found in some casesthat there's some cracks in
that tool, right, and so justbecause you don't see the
program that you thought you'dbe eligible for not listed there
(40:09):
doesn't mean it's not available.
But that is a tool and it's notavailable, but that is a tool
and it's at least a startingpoint.
One thing we've done withfarmers after Hurricane Milton
and Hurricane Helene, and wewill probably do going forward
in extreme weather events, ishelping farmers decipher what
(40:30):
they are eligible for Because,as Lisa said, every farm is so
unique and even in a region likeWestern North Carolina the
damage to one farm isn't thesame damage to the farm next
door.
So by offering some tailoredtechnical assistance we can
really understand the extent ofdamage and loss on a farm and
(40:54):
then be the filter for thefarmer.
We take our knowledge of theseindividual programs and on the
spot can identify which ones wethink they should spend their
time and effort applying for,and there will be some that
they're probably eligible for.
But is it really worth theirtime applying for that program?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, see, that's great to know that you guys
serve kind of as, like that, themiddleman to see what different
farmers and ranchers, like yousaid, might be eligible for and
kind of filter through all theinformation, cause I think that
it's kind of, you know,information overload to some
people and they get a little bitoverwhelmed with all that is
(41:33):
out there and not knowing kindof where to start.
So it's great to know that youguys exist and have the
opportunity to kind of lend ahand and have, you know, the
technical assistance componentso that folks are not kind of
stuck in the weeds.
We are definitely alsointerested in just touching on
(41:54):
what you know allies can do tohelp and our role as farmer
advocates, rancher advocates, tosupport people in need in these
times of crisis.
So I would love to hear fromyou guys, you know, what are
some of the action steps somefolks can take to become an ally
.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yeah, I can start with some thoughts and, jamie,
I'd be curious for yours as well, in terms of this role that
you're just describing of beingthis middle entity of helping
farmers find their way.
That's something that, yeah,we've seen is so helpful.
I would never expect a farmerto know all these programs so
deeply that they can make thesedecisions in these moments of
(42:37):
crisis.
So one thing that RAFI is doingright now is developing a
training for folks that want tohave some of this knowledge
about different disasterprograms, who could potentially
connect with farmers andunderstand what their damage is
and then point them in the rightdirection for programs they
could access.
And we have that traininghappening later this week and I
(43:01):
think there'll likely be more tocome.
But just even the points thatwe've mentioned today about
having a farmer write down thedamage, take pictures, be that
third-party verification, oreven just be on a phone call
when they are in a, a meeting,when they go into their USDA
service center to be theirsecond pair of ears, because
(43:22):
they are an information overloadand having a person to
accompany them makes adifference.
So that's what I would say.
Jamie, do you have otherthoughts?
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Lisa, I actually have a quick question for you about
the training.
Is that open to anyone?
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Lisa, I actually have a quick question for you about
the training Is that open toanyone?
We are opening it to anyone andwe're really focusing on
different organizations that arealready connected with farmers
in some way.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
And, like I mentioned , I believe there's going to be
more in the future, but at thevery least that's going to get
recorded and put on our websiteif folks want to go and watch
that.
Incredible, okay, great, yeah,and we will definitely include
some of these links in the abouttext for this episode.
So folks can, you know,definitely try to learn more
(44:06):
about how they can get involvedand, jamie, I would love to hear
from you as well sure.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So the perspective I might bring for how allies could
help comes from my experiencein a lot of grassroots level
work.
So seeing the skills andfinancial assets of community
members who are non-affected andhow those are applied to
affected individuals seems tojust activate so quickly after
(44:33):
disasters seems to just activateso quickly after disasters.
I used to live in Western NorthCarolina for about 10 years and
seeing the community responseand even the farm to farm
response supporting farmersafter disaster has been really
incredible.
And it's also very taxing to thevery small organizations that
(44:56):
have small numbers of staff andvery small budgets but they're
trying to do the most they canwith the most they have.
And any ways that the generalpublic can support with monetary
donations or contributions tothese organizations that really
know farmers well, theyunderstand the farmers'
(45:17):
immediate needs and how thoseimmediate needs are changing on
a day-to-day or week-to-weekbasis can really go a long way.
And for community residents whohave very specific skill sets,
it's been pretty amazing to seehow neighbors can rebuild a
bridge in just three days timeto provide access to not just a
(45:41):
farmer's land but otherresidents land that have now
become inaccessible.
So this event in Western NorthCarolina has been a very strong
demonstration of mutual aid andgrassroots support, and I can't
speak to what's happening inFlorida with Milton per se, but
(46:01):
I wonder, if it's the same and Ihope in future disasters as
they seem to be more severe andmore prevalent, how we're going
to continue to see thatoutpouring of local donations
and skills to support theagricultural community.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, I mean we definitely have seen a similar
thing happen as a result ofHurricane Helene and Milton in
the state of Florida, as far ascommunities coming together, and
you know it's really telling tosee just community members
wanting to be involved inpicking the pieces back up, so
it is really inspiring to seethat.
(46:39):
And, on that note, I wanted tosee if there are state specific
resources that farmers andranchers can find, specifically
from Rafi, and also if you areable to share any information
related to you know farmers thatare transitioning to certified
(47:00):
organic and you know how tonavigate that when it comes to
possibly finding some moreresources in that regard.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
I can talk a bit about, yeah, state by state
resources.
I think again there's a blog onour website that includes some
of the specific state-by-stateresources In general.
You know, all the things thatwe've been mentioning for these
farm programs are federalprograms and so that's going to
be, you know, similar, but it isup to kind of state agencies to
(47:33):
determine specific parametersor waivers or things like that.
So getting in touch with localor with kind of the state FSA
and RCS offices is helpful.
There's also, like DSNAP,disastersnap, disaster
Unemployment Assistance.
These things can lookdifferently in different states
and require kind of specificresearch.
(47:56):
So again, I would take a look atour website, but otherwise, you
know, just really Googlingspecific like this state, this
resource, because it can beexpressed very differently in
different regions.
And then in terms of the youknow, assistance for folks that
are transitioning to organic.
I think you know we I don'tknow if we have as much that
(48:16):
we've done on that already,beyond just the questions about,
like, water contamination, soilcontamination.
Jamie, have you seen anythingelse around that topic?
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I have a fair bit in terms of crop safety after an
event.
Small scale producers who, ifthey're growing on a small scale
basis and I'm talking likemaybe five acres of less, a very
intensive vegetable productionand specialty crop production,
(48:48):
these growers, if they lost afield, they may have lost every
bit of their crop.
They may have lost every bit oftheir crop, and so it would be
vital to understand, you know,what kind of water contact on
those crops would deem themunsafe.
So a lot of questions arecoming up around crop safety.
(49:08):
Our North Carolina extensioncooperative extension has been
an invaluable resource gettinginformation about crop safety
and that water contamination.
Then, when it comes to wellsafety, the local health
department, I think, has beenthe best source of information
for farmers, understanding howto treat or shock their wells
(49:31):
after potential contamination.
Those two things are what cometo mind your potential
contamination.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Those two things are what come to mind.
Amazing.
Well, we are so so you knowlucky to have you guys on our
show today to share all of theseresources.
So a huge, huge thank you toboth of you, lisa and Jamie, for
joining us and sharing reallysuch valuable insights into the
challenges and triumphs ofdisaster relief and resilience
in the farming world.
Speaker 4 (49:56):
Of course, thanks for having us.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Your work at RAFI is a testament to the power of
community support policyadvocacy and sustainable farming
practices and, as we've heardtoday, when farmers have access
to the right tools andtechnology and resources,
they're able to recover fromcrises and build even stronger,
more resilient operations.
So, whether it's helpingfarmers conserve their land,
(50:22):
expand their market access orcreate action plans in the face
of disaster, organizations likeRAFI USA are making a real
difference.
If you want to learn more aboutRAFI's programs and how you can
support their mission, be sureto check out our show notes and
remember, every time you supporta small farm or advocate for
sustainable practices, you'replaying a part in building a
(50:44):
more equitable food system.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you next time on
Fresh Take.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
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