January 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Hillary Miller, a passionate educator and advocate for sustainable agriculture. Raised in St. Petersburg, Florida, Hillary shares her transformative journey into the world of seed saving, offering insights into how it can preserve biodiversity and empower communities by making food more accessible and affordable.
Explore the often-overlooked significance of seeds and their foundational role in our food systems. We discuss the environmental impacts of commercial seed production and how organic gardening and traditional food preservation methods can contribute to a healthier, more resilient food system. With practical advice for beginners, Hillary dispels common misconceptions about seed saving, encouraging small steps and community engagement as the path to food sovereignty.
From seed libraries to growing heat-tolerant plants like Okinawa spinach in Florida's climate, we delve into initiatives that reduce dependence on commercial supply chains. Listen as we emphasize the importance of reclaiming vital life skills through master gardener programs, 4-H youth initiatives, and regional gardening networks, fostering a locally-driven approach to food security and community pride.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Fresh Take , where we at Florida Organic
Growers speak to food systemsexperts about topics related to
organic and sustainableagriculture, healthy lifestyles
and the environment.
To help us continue ourprograms at FOG, including our
podcast, consider becoming asponsor.
For more information onsponsorship, check out our Get
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg out our Get
(00:27):
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hello and welcome back to Fresh Shake, where we
explore powerful ideas, smallsteps and big impacts in the
world of organic agriculture andsustainable living.
I am your host, lana Shahabedin, and today we're diving into
the world of seed saving, asimple yet transformative act
that connects us to our food,our communities and the planet.
Joining us is someone I've hadthe pleasure of getting to know
fairly well over the lastseveral years in the food system
(00:55):
space Hilary Miller, aremarkable educator and advocate
who has made a lifelong impactwherever she's planted roots.
Raised in St Petersburg,florida, hillary's journey of
championing food systems andnutrition programs in Florida
and now the Pacific Northwest isa testament to her dedication
and efforts to empower hercommunities through food.
(01:16):
Together, we'll learn how seedsaving empowers individuals,
preserves biodiversity andfosters food security for
generations to come.
Hilary, welcome to the show.
Oh, it is great to be here,thank you.
I'm so happy to see you andhave the time to talk to you
about this topic, because it isquite timely, considering that
(01:38):
we do have an upcoming holidaycentered around seed saving, and
that's the National Seed SwapDay, and the Seed Savers
Exchange has deemed this type ofevent to be about celebrating
the community and connectionbetween people and seeds.
So I'm excited to kind of talkmore about this holiday with you
(02:02):
.
But before we get into thatspecific piece, I'd love to
learn more about you and yourpersonal connection with seed
saving.
What brought you to this typeof practice?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Very great question.
Well, growing up without enoughto eat every day, first and
foremost, just like in lovingfood and experiencing food, and
I worked for the familynutrition program in Florida and
part of that work I became thePSE specialist policy system and
environmental changes and itgave me the opportunity to help
gardens grow in differentcommunities that were
(02:35):
underserved, and not only that,but encouraging use of seed
banks, seed banking and peoplein the neighborhood to actually
start taking the plants home,taking the seeds home, growing
seeds in their neighborhood andthen sharing those seeds with
more people, and on and on andso forth, and not just community
centers but schools, prettymuch anywhere people gather food
(02:56):
pantries.
I could just keep going on andon with the seed saving, but for
me it's all about food.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah.
So let's take a step back for asecond and define, for folks
that don't know the practice ofseed saving, what it really
entails and why is it soimportant for us to do and
continue this practice.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I think the easiest definition is literally
saving seeds.
Saving seeds from the food youeat so that you can replant the
seeds and share them with otherpeople for the future.
It saves you money in yourpocket.
It makes food accessible, foodlike from farm to table.
If you're growing your foodright there, you're helping with
your carbon footprint, you'rehelping the grocery bill and you
(03:38):
can do it at any kind of spacethat you have.
So I think that's like theeasiest, smallest definition I
can think of.
Another important reason tosave seeds is to save the
diversity of the species.
You want as many differenttypes of plants as possible for
like, for your nutritional needs, for diversity, for disease
resistance, all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And so for the upcoming holiday, the National
Seed Swap Day, do you have youparticipated in this kind of
event before the celebration?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Not officially.
It's funny you mentioned itbecause I was looking at this
Web page today, so I've done it,but on a micro level maybe not.
Well, actually, no, that's notentirely true either Kind of the
entire state of Florida,because I worked with a group
that was giving away seed kitsand seed kits planting, and I
was anybody who wanted them.
We were making sure they gotthem.
So I guess I've donemulti-county wide type projects
and I'm even working with seedsaving projects.
(04:35):
Even though I'm in the PNW now,I still have projects that I
was working on in Florida thatI'm checking in with and making
sure they're still going.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's awesome.
Yes, and that's how I rememberyou know us talking about this
conversation.
To begin with was your effortsto really bring this to light
for a lot of the communities inFlorida, and so I'd love to get
more deep into this topic, andobviously we touched a little
bit about the environmentalimpacts.
You mentioned biodiversity andbringing that into the picture,
(05:06):
but what are the other thingsthat you think people need to
know about the practice of seedsaving when it comes to other
aspects of the environment?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, we started a food forest in Midtown, which is
a historically Blackneighborhood in St Pete, and
people from the neighborhoodwere coming and giving us trees
to plant there and differentvarieties of trees and tropical
trees that are kind ofendangered are being planted.
So we're keeping that species aswell as encouraging people to
(05:38):
try different foods to eat,because one of the tenets of
SNAP-Ed, which I work in, is toeat the rainbow.
So they're getting morenutritional needs met and the
area of town that this wasplanted in is a food desert, so
there are no closed grocerystores and the majority of the
population down there doesn'thave a reliable source of
transportation.
So it reaches people from allgenerations, from youth up to
(06:02):
the elders in the community andit's a part of food sovereignty
and food ownership.
So they're getting to dosomething that's theirs.
They can see that it's theirsand it's growing and they take
pride in it, because there wasalso a problem with litter and
that field and it was justsitting there collecting trash
and if you take ownership andpride in it, you're not wasting
(06:23):
litter and food in there, you'reactually going to compost it.
It's like a whole system.
There was composting, we wantrain barrels and I feel like it
just affluences all aspects oflife.
Mental health care, especiallyin the PNW.
We talk about how having agarden and gardening is really
good for your mental health.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, that's such a good point to bring up and I
mean you touched on so manythings that, like I want to take
a second to dwell on a littlebit which is the fact that most
of our seeds come fromcommercial production.
So it's interesting because inthe food system we don't really,
you know, in our courses thatwe talk about nutrition, and
(07:04):
even in social justice, you know, it's kind of overlooked, I
think, as a topic, and seeds arethe foundation of food.
So when we're talking about theconnection between people and
food, seeds I think have to be apart of that conversation,
right, and it seems that for alot of years that really hasn't
been the case, but in someplaces that is starting to
(07:27):
become a more popular topic.
So I think the ideas that youshared about, you know, the
transportation, the packaging,the production of seeds like
that's a really big aspect thatI think we forget in talking
about environmental impacts andalso taking charge of your own
(07:47):
growing practice, the foodsovereignty piece is so powerful
.
I think we also often forgetthe role of people in food just
the average consumer, and howthey can really take control
back, like you said.
So another aspect is, you knowthe idea that people will maybe
start to be more avid organicgardeners, right.
(08:11):
So what do you think thebenefits of that have been in
your experience, besides themental health aspect?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, I think, nutritionally speaking, and
maybe the less in the exposureto chemicals, because we have
such a huge toxic load thatwe're carrying around Like you,
breathe, you drink the water.
You only can control so manydifferent aspects, right, but if
you're growing thingsorganically as possible, you're
not getting that same exposure,because we know there's certain
(08:41):
plants, certain fruits andvegetables that absorb more of
those chemicals than others.
So I think that's reallyimportant to be aware of.
Now.
Would I tell someone not to eatfood that they got from the
grocery?
Absolutely not.
You have to eat what'savailable to you and you only
have so many resources.
But, as we learned during COVID, our food system needs an
overhaul, because we're only afew days from the grocery stores
(09:02):
being empty from food.
Look at this most recent BobCyclone that we had here.
The grocery stores on WhidbeyIsland had to start throwing
away perishables because, well,the power had been out for so
long.
What are you going to do in asituation like that?
It's not like the olden days.
You grew your own food, youcanned your own food, you stored
it in your root cellar or yourbasement, so you had some kind
(09:25):
of reserves in case somethinghappened.
Right Now, again, that's not anattainable goal for everyone.
I don't have a root cellar, butI do have a balcony.
I have a place outside.
I can do a little postage stampgarden and grow food.
Like that we can do communitygardens.
So maybe you don't have a spaceat home in which to grow things
, but you can use your localneighborhood community garden to
(09:45):
grow food that you're eating,and a lot of gardens will let
you do it for free or for a lowcost, so that it's not another
barrier to access of.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think there's like an evolution in gardening lately
in terms of people wanting tostart growing their own foods,
even fermenting their own foods,canning, preserving those
things that were kind of theantiquated practices of food
systems, I think are beingbrought back as a more popular
way of, you know, eating andenjoying food as well.
So those are really greatinsights and, as far as you know
(10:26):
, I think there's a lot of maybemisconceptions about seed
saving, that maybe it's just toolaborious or too complicated.
Tell us more about those.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Okay.
Well, I think with anything newthere's some trepidation, like
there's a little fear associatedwith how do I do this?
How do I start?
Where do I store them?
Oh, I don't have enough time,all those concerns that are just
part of the human condition andI completely understand.
So I say start small, right,where do you store it?
Well, your countertop, thefridge, maybe, depending on the
(10:59):
temperature of your place.
And what seeds are you saving,on the temperature of your place
?
And what seeds are you saving?
Save the things that you eatall the time because you know
you love them, you know you'regoing to want to eat them.
Save the healthiest, mostjuiciest, delicious looking
plant and it will hopefullyproduce the same for you, and
then pick it yourself up again.
Maybe you start and you forgetto water them or you don't clean
them well enough, right, that'sanother thing people don't know
(11:21):
.
You just need to clean theseeds before you save them
because you don't want mold orbugs, especially if you're in
Florida to try and enjoy theseeds you've saved, but also
just being able to pick yourselfup again, because I've done
seed saving by accident.
Frankly, you're like oh wow,this is real, real ripe and it's
kind of too far for me to eat.
I'm going to throw this outsideon my makeshift compost bin.
(11:44):
I say makeshift compost becauseI'm a very lazy composter.
Like you can get a bin, you canturn it and all that.
But my method has always kindof been let's just throw it
outside.
And a lot of times those thingsstart growing and you're like,
yay, I have a volunteer plantthat I can now harvest from and
then I can just save the seedsthat came off those plants,
(12:04):
right, like your peas, yourlegumes, your beans, all of
those.
You wait till the little thepod dries out and gets brown and
then you keep the seeds.
They're like the easiest, Ithink, low impact thing to save
Because like you just pick itand you just save it.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's a good point and so, yeah, I feel like for
the folks that think it is waytoo complicated or too time
consuming, it's definitely afeasible thing to do because,
just like you said, it could bea matter of just tossing an
apple or something into thebackyard and seeing what happens
saving the seeds, cleaning theseeds.
(12:45):
It doesn't take that mucheffort, and we'll get into the
actual tips in how you can startthis practice in a moment here.
But I also want to talk aboutfor a second the other myth,
which is do you really need tohave a large garden or a space
to be able to start saving seedsand growing your own foods?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Not at all.
You can do it in any space youhave.
When I lived in Arizona I had awindow box and it had cucumbers
and tomatoes and all kinds ofthings just in my living room.
So really any space that you'rein you can grow something.
Maybe you just do fresh herbsbecause you're limited for time
and space.
That's fine too.
They have cute littlehydroponic towers that are like
(13:28):
mini, mini size, like littlegrowing inside kits, so you can
do whichever investment you want.
Like five bucks is all you haveto spend.
That's fine.
You spend five bucks.
You upcycle some containers,you have something to grow at
home, saving seeds.
Keep all your old jars and thenclean them out and then store
the seeds in there.
It's doable.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Those are really good points, and I think you're
touching on other pieces of thiskind of sustainable life
practice, which is just reusingother things that you also have
in your own home, even like eggcartons and things that, like
you, typically throw out.
I've been seeing so many videoslately about saving those
things and reusing them and notputting them in our landfill, so
(14:13):
those are really good ideas.
I think that our listeners canjust start to apply today after
listening to this.
But I also want to kind of goback to the basics for a second
for seed saving.
So once you have a plant that,let's say, you want to harvest
the seeds from, what are thetips or the steps you need to
(14:35):
take in order to harvest themappropriately?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Okay.
So it depends on the kind ofplant, because some are juicier
than others and you have to doit at a certain time.
So I would say, for beans,legumes, peas those are like my
go-to.
Anything that makes a littleseed pod like Egyptian spinach
is awesome.
We grew some of those at aschool and they were in raised
beds.
It got taller than me and itproduces pods all over the place
(15:00):
.
So you just let it go to seed,that is, you let it go past the
date where you're actually goingto try and eat it, because now
it's got the flowers, they'vebeen pollinated.
Oh my gosh, look, it's gotlittle seed pods on there that
have thousands of seeds,thousands, thousands and
thousands.
So with those you literallyjust kind of open up and they're
teeny, tiny and you put themall in an envelope and you label
(15:21):
it and you stick it somewhereuntil the next growing season.
That's it For ones like that,super easy, already dry when you
harvest it.
So something like tomatoes arereally juicy, right.
So you got to let them.
You let them kind of ferment alittle bit.
You like take all the seeds outand you just sit them somewhere
and it gets all nice and goopyon the top.
So you know, the fermentationprocess has kind of taken that
(15:43):
coating off of the seeds alittle bit.
You can't see me, it's apodcast.
I'm over here like moving myfingers through the imaginary
tomato seeds, feeling how goopyit is, talking with my hands,
you know.
So then you rinse them off anduse a good strainer, just
something that won't let yourseeds escape through them.
Myself I have something realsmall seeds escape through them.
(16:05):
Myself something real small.
I'll put like a few paper towelinside the strainers, like as
you're rinsing it they won'twash down the sink because we
need them and then lay it out todry.
So you just want them really,really dry before you actually
are going to store them.
And that's tomatoes, that'stomato seeds, something like
squashes.
Again, you're going to pickonce it's really ripe squash
Watermelon is very similar.
You pick it once it's somethingat a stage where you would eat
(16:26):
it.
Since you're saving the seeds,you can let it go past when you
would eat it, because you wantto make sure the seeds are
really, really mature andthey're ready.
If you're going to save themand then squash that gourd and
like get all the seeds out.
If you've ever carved a pumpkin, like a jack-o'-lantern.
You know it's goopy, but youknow messy can be fun too.
(16:47):
So you get all the little seedsout and they still have the
little strings and stuff on themthat we don't eat, but it was
what's attached in the seed tothe inside and you just need to
rinse those off again.
Rinse them off really reallygood Get all the flesh off of
them and then dry the seeds.
I've seen differentarrangements for that, like a
screen.
You can spread them out on ascreen and then put a fan on
them for a couple of days.
(17:07):
Just want to make sure they'rereally, really dry before you
then store them and label them.
Store them somewhere cool, putthe date on them so you know
what date you harvested them,and then you're ready to plant
again next season.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Wow, I mean, that sounds really easy to do.
you're making it sound like no,you know, only a few minutes
here and there and you're donewater, the seeds some time yeah,
maybe, except for the squashand the, the more juicier um
fruits and vegetables that youjust mentioned, that you know
you have to take the time tothoroughly wash.
(17:41):
So, in terms of how long theseseeds last, what does that look
like?
In terms of, like you want tosave the seeds this summer but
you want to plant them next year?
Like what is that?
How long do these seedstypically last?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I think that's completely fine.
As long as you store them well.
They should last for at least ayear and maybe more.
It depends on the species, thevariety, the climate Like, and
maybe more.
It depends on the species, thevariety, the climate Like.
If it's super humid, youputting them in the fridge will
help them last longer for you.
And of course, the germinationrate, like how many seeds are
actually healthy and viable, aregoing to make a new plant.
It's going to vary based onwhich kind of plant you're using
(18:16):
.
So the first year you should begolden shouldn't be no problem
and then each succeeding yearyou'll have fewer and fewer.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, Okay, and as far as drying them properly, do
you recommend air drying overlike the actual hair dryer
method?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Who's using a hair dryer.
I mean, I suppose you could useone if you had it on a cool
setting, but it would depend onhow many seeds you're using and
why use the electric when you.
I mean when you could just laythem out, let them dry.
That's basically what I woulddo In Florida.
I probably would stick a fan onthem or, if you're somewhere
super humid, don't put them insunlight, because we really
(18:53):
don't want to fry the poorlittle seeds before they get
started.
You want to keep them dry sothey don't try to germinate
before you're ready for them tobecome a new plant, because
that'll affect how many plantsyou'll get the next year, and
even if they only last to thenext growing season.
Well, if you save the seedsthat result from that, then
you're good to go.
If you just save a few seedsevery growing season, you should
(19:14):
always, always, have that plant.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Right, right, that makes a lot of sense.
So, as far as the seeds thatpeople want to save at home, do
you recommend you know, justlike you said before about
whatever food or item you haveat home that you think is
tasting amazing and you'resaving those kinds of seeds Do
you have a recommendation as faras, if people don't have a
(19:37):
particular fruit or vegetable athome that they want to grow,
where they should source thoseseeds and how they could find
out what's growing native totheir area?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I love this question.
I was hoping you'd answer thisquestion because I know I go
around a bunch of topics and Ithought of this earlier.
So my favorite thing was to goto my neighborhood nurseries and
I'm talking the person who'sgrowing food in their backyard
and say, hey, because those arethe things that you already know
are successful.
They're already happy in thisenvironment because a lot of
times when you order seeds fromseed catalogs, they come from
(20:08):
all over the country, fromdifferent places, so that may be
the best seeds ever, but theymay not work where you live for
your particular environment.
So if you find plants that arealready growing there, they're
already happy and you sourcethose seeds again carbon
footprint, supporting locals,supporting a small business and
native species.
I got a lot of plants that Iwould distribute.
People had never heard of beforebut they grew really well in
(20:31):
Florida.
So it's like you're used tospinach.
Like a lot of people want togrow the spinach they get at the
grocery store.
That is not the spinach thatgrows in Florida.
Like, really, like, really,really.
It's too hot, too hot for it,and that's true with a lot of
different lettuce varieties InFlorida.
They just don't like it.
But you can grow other speciesthat will be perennials and will
(21:04):
just keep growing, like myOkinawan spinach.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
It just keeps going.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
It's the gift that keeps giving.
So I much would rather growsomething like that and learn to
taste something new that willbe successful.
Hey look, you're still alive.
This is great.
You go out and harvest some foryour salad and keep moving.
Maybe you water them a littlebit if it's super, super dry.
Some of my poor little ones, Imean, it was really well dry and
maybe I had to go on a trip.
You come back you think they'redead.
You water them a little bit.
Oh my gosh, you made it.
Yes, so that's my method.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That's exciting to see when something is actually
going to come through the soiland it's green and it looks
perfect and new.
I love seeing that, even in myown plants at home, just
household plants that are justsprouting a new leaf.
It's such a nice little feelingin your heart, but I'm sure
that there are.
You know, with this comes maybesome practice makes perfect.
(21:47):
But what do you see?
As far as some of the commonbeginner mistakes, or saving
seeds.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I think not cleaning them well enough, really Like,
if you're lazy I myself, youknow you worked a long day
things happen.
Oh, I'm sure it's fine if Ileave that little bit of pumpkin
on there, or squash or whatever.
Maybe you don't want to cleanyour tomato seeds off all the
way, or maybe you don't let themferment a little bit, get a
little goopy.
Well, if you leave it and it'sstill a little damp and you go
(22:17):
to store it, then you're talkinglike mildewy or mold, which is
going to inhibit the growth, orit's still moist and it starts
trying to germinate and sproutin your fridge.
So now you can't really usethose seeds because they weren't
stored properly, forgetting tolabel them right.
It seems like such a simplething, but let me tell you I had
some seeds that were given tome, but the person had no idea
(22:39):
what they were and I wound upnever giving them to anyone
because I'm like what is that?
This is great, thank you.
But what are?
I don't know, and like.
Sometimes I can look at a seedand tell but you?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
But what are?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I don't know and like sometimes I can look at a seed
and tell, but sometimes I'mreally not sure what that is.
Wow, I mean, the fact that youcould look at a seed and tell is
pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, thank you, I just I love that and I know
you've been really activeactually with seed libraries and
making sure people can accessseeds in in different capacities
.
So what?
What does a seed librarytypically look like for someone
who has never been to one, andwhat is the idea behind it?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So we have seed libraries.
There's some in Florida.
You should check your locallibrary because they are in a
lot of libraries and they looklike the old school card catalog
If you've never seen one.
It's a multiple file withlittle drawers you can pull out
and it usually has seed packetsand you can just take them.
You can let them know, you givethem your library card number,
you walk out the door with seedsto plant in the yard.
It's amazing and I'm glad yougot to see libraries because
(23:40):
they all can look different.
We have one in my office herenow.
It's a collaboration with thelocal Master Gardeners and I
love it.
We got seeds donated and soover $8,000 worth of seeds so
I've been able to take some to ahigh school.
I met with somebody fromSeattle Public Schools and she
came and got a huge bag of seedsto distribute to multiple
(24:00):
different schools.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Throughout the entire school district, so it gives my
heart joy.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's really exciting, yeah, cause I also
don't think that seed librariesare talked about enough.
Even with the local publiclibraries that we have, I don't
think there's enough marketingabout it or just people talking
about the fact that you can getseeds from your library.
There is not enough push forthat kind of thing.
So definitely I encourageeveryone listening to ask your
(24:30):
local libraries if they have aseed library and how to, you
know, start using that.
So that's definitely somethingthat folks should be aware of.
And I also want to bring intothe conversation, just in
general, the impact of seedsaving in the food system.
How do you think, hillary, seedsaving really can change the
(24:55):
narrative of our food systemtoday if more people started to
practice this?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I think they'd have to sit up and take notice.
For one thing, it would helpthe food system, because I've
heard the fact that PinellasCounty is the peninsula in the
peninsula of Florida and itwould only take about three days
of being cut off of the foodsystem to start running out of
food.
So if people had food in theirown backyards, there would be
less reliance on the grocerystore.
(25:22):
I think the shift of attitudestowards food like marketers
would have to think about wow,we've been doing this for years.
Maybe we should do things thatenhance this, or how can we
support this instead of just,you know, making overproduced
things that nobody actuallyreally needs to consume.
I wanted to bring up anotherfact too for people with SNAP-Ed
(25:43):
, which is the major populationI work with, you can buy seeds
and food plants with your SNAPdollars.
So that's another thing that Idon't think is talked about
enough, but I think that wouldhelp a lot for low-income
families to start becoming evenmore self-sustaining,
self-sufficient, less reliant onthe local infrastructure that
(26:03):
they maybe have troubleaccessing.
I love what you said about seedbanks, because I had to go and
seek out that knowledge to findout that we had seed banks.
I didn't know they existed tillI started looking for them.
So I think knowledge really ispower, so things that we can do,
things like this podcast,things like going to local
events, things like the TampaBay Collar Green Festival, which
you joined me at this year Ikeep emphasizing that and
(26:27):
working like reaching across theBay Like it used to just be St
Pete and then it's now Tampa Bay, reaching out to different
counties and different regionalhubs to see and to share seeds,
because that increases theamount of diversity of things
you have access to and it alsohelps your wallet, because the
grocery store is not getting anycheaper.
(26:47):
So, as you're growing things athome, you have better access and
if you have the room in youryard to have fruit trees, maybe
having an exchange justthroughout your neighborhood
where people can come get themangoes and then if you're
growing something else, you canshare that with them.
I'm also a fan of like barterand trade, that everything
doesn't have to be dollars based, because I think that would
(27:07):
support people who are lowerincome or having trouble with
getting to a grocery storebecause of transportation and
other issues.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Absolutely no.
Those are such great points,and thank you for also
mentioning the Snap EBT users,because, again, that's another
great way of spending thosedollars.
And even I'm thinking of thepeople that might be really,
really new to growing food andare not sure whether or not the
seeds that they're starting tosave are going to be
(27:37):
successfully grown in theirbackyard or in their balconies.
Are there resources or toolsthat you recommend people check
out in order to know what mightgrow best in their climates?
Like, are there those kinds ofthings that you would like to
share with folks listening?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Absolutely.
I recommend highly your localextension office because
extension is for helping peoplefind solutions.
It will be attached to a localuniversity and they will have a
whole resource and a lot oftimes they'll have master
gardeners.
You can contact a horticulturaldesk so that you can ask them
about the seeds, the growingconditions.
There will be classes andcourses that are either free or
(28:17):
at a reduced price to help youkind of get your foot in the
door if you're interested indoing something like this, and I
would look for local nonprofits.
Back in St Pete I was a part ofthe Sustainable Urban
Agriculture Coalition, solooking for places like that
that have an interest in growingand urban gardening, I think
would go a long way as far asgetting started, because I know
(28:39):
it can be daunting to startanything new and I really don't
blame you.
It can seem like a lot, butfood is one of the most
important things you can do.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yes, yes it is, and I like what you said before too,
about working across kind ofregions and looking at even
networks that exist, like localseed saving networks, seed swaps
, community gardens, nurseries,like looking into all of your
local established gardeners orplaces that are currently doing
(29:09):
something similar to this andtrying to lean in for their help
and their support, especiallythe extension agents as well.
And so, before we kind of wrapthis up, I'd like to know, from
your perspective, what do youthink the future of seed saving
looks like, how do you thinkthat it currently, in the
(29:31):
current perspective of things,how it could be better, and what
would you do to encouragepeople to really, you know, pick
this up today if they could?
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Oh my gosh, that is like a lot of really great
questions.
So I think the future of itlooks like more people getting
involved.
Our master gardeners here had,I think, 500 applicants for this
year and they only have justover 100 spaces, but 500 people
applied knowledge.
(30:07):
There are people who want tolearn about gardening, saving
seeds, growing their own foodand, like you mentioned, canning
.
We do pressure can testing atthe office so, like you can
bring in your pressuring gear,we can make sure that it's
working correctly so that yourfood is safe to eat.
So I think there's going to bea lot more people interested in
that.
And 4-H agencies like 4-H.
Like if we can encourage morechildren to get involved, get
(30:29):
more volunteers to work with 4-Hagencies.
Like 4-H.
Like if we can encourage morechildren to get involved, get
more volunteers to work with 4-H.
I did the Super Saturday hereand it was really heartening to
see all these youth who are sowell behaved and so interested
in what I was teaching them andso capable.
Like it teaches you more thanjust learning.
It's self-sufficiency, but notjust OK, I know how to put my
clothes on in the morning, I cango to school.
Life skills like things weactually need and that have been
(30:50):
lost along the way.
So I think encouraging that andmaybe how we approach social
media Now.
I can't tell you what to do withthat, because it's a huge, huge
thing, but a way to reach outto people, to cut through the
noise, because there's so muchnoise online.
But there's also usefulresources and useful
organizations.
So I would say morecollaborations and more
(31:13):
partnerships, becausecollaborating is how we get
anything done, like they'venever had a seed bank in my
office before and I got here andI've been here just over six
months and we have a seed bank.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yay, that's excellent yes.
It makes me so happy.
And just just speaking oncollaboration between the both
of us, I know that while youwere still in Florida, you and I
started the seed saving groupin the Florida Local Food
Network, which is part of ourFlorida Local Food Project at
Florida Organic Growers.
That's a lot of terms rightthere, but we are really trying
(31:48):
to shine a light on this topicas much as possible and work
with people like you who arereally wise, you know, can
provide the wisdom andexperience and support into
encouraging people to dosomething like this that not
only can affect your health andmental well wellbeing, but also
your complete surroundings.
(32:08):
So it's really nice to have youon the show today and I'm
really grateful to have thisopportunity to talk to you more
about this topic and share morelight on this.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Thank you, it's been really great to be here today.
I really try to rein myself in,because I get off on this topic
and I'm like, oh, but thisthing, and then this oh, and
there's also this, you know.
So yes, we.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
We definitely could spend another few episodes
chatting, you and I, and I thinkthat we'll probably have you
back in the future for sure totalk about some other things
that you and I both love verydearly.
But I would like to take amoment also to thank our
listeners for joining us forthis insightful conversation on
seed saving with the incredibleHillary Miller.
(32:53):
We hope you're inspired tostart saving seeds, whether it's
from your favorite backyardtomatoes or a community garden
project, and remember that thissimple act can really have a
profound impact on theenvironment, our food systems
and future generations.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, don't forget to
subscribe, leave a review andshare it with someone who loves
(33:16):
gardening or sustainable livingtips.
You can follow us for more tipsby listening to Fresh Take on
wwwfoginfoorg or by searchingfor Fresh Shake in any of your
favorite podcast streamingplatforms.
Until next time, keep saving,thriving and making an impact.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Port Organic Growers is a 501c3nonprofit organization, so to
keep our content available andfree to the public, we need your
help.
Please subscribe, rate andreview wherever you listen, and
consider making a tax-deductibledonation or become a sponsor.
Learn more about our work andhow you can become a sponsor
from our website, wwwboginfoorg.
Welcome to Fresh Take , where we at Florida Organic
Growers speak to food systemsexperts about topics related to
organic and sustainableagriculture, healthy lifestyles
and the environment.
To help us continue ourprograms at FOG, including our
podcast, consider becoming asponsor.
For more information onsponsorship, check out our Get
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg out our Get
(00:27):
Involved page on our website,wwwfoginfoorg.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hello and welcome back to Fresh Shake, where we
explore powerful ideas, smallsteps and big impacts in the
world of organic agriculture andsustainable living.
I am your host, lana Shahabedin, and today we're diving into
the world of seed saving, asimple yet transformative act
that connects us to our food,our communities and the planet.
Joining us is someone I've hadthe pleasure of getting to know
fairly well over the lastseveral years in the food system
(00:55):
space Hilary Miller, aremarkable educator and advocate
who has made a lifelong impactwherever she's planted roots.
Raised in St Petersburg,florida, hillary's journey of
championing food systems andnutrition programs in Florida
and now the Pacific Northwest isa testament to her dedication
and efforts to empower hercommunities through food.
(01:16):
Together, we'll learn how seedsaving empowers individuals,
preserves biodiversity andfosters food security for
generations to come.
Hilary, welcome to the show.
Oh, it is great to be here,thank you.
I'm so happy to see you andhave the time to talk to you
about this topic, because it isquite timely, considering that
(01:38):
we do have an upcoming holidaycentered around seed saving, and
that's the National Seed SwapDay, and the Seed Savers
Exchange has deemed this type ofevent to be about celebrating
the community and connectionbetween people and seeds.
So I'm excited to kind of talkmore about this holiday with you
(02:02):
.
But before we get into thatspecific piece, I'd love to
learn more about you and yourpersonal connection with seed
saving.
What brought you to this typeof practice?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Very great question.
Well, growing up without enoughto eat every day, first and
foremost, just like in lovingfood and experiencing food, and
I worked for the familynutrition program in Florida and
part of that work I became thePSE specialist policy system and
environmental changes and itgave me the opportunity to help
gardens grow in differentcommunities that were
(02:35):
underserved, and not only that,but encouraging use of seed
banks, seed banking and peoplein the neighborhood to actually
start taking the plants home,taking the seeds home, growing
seeds in their neighborhood andthen sharing those seeds with
more people, and on and on andso forth, and not just community
centers but schools, prettymuch anywhere people gather food
(02:56):
pantries.
I could just keep going on andon with the seed saving, but for
me it's all about food.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah.
So let's take a step back for asecond and define, for folks
that don't know the practice ofseed saving, what it really
entails and why is it soimportant for us to do and
continue this practice.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I think the easiest definition is literally
saving seeds.
Saving seeds from the food youeat so that you can replant the
seeds and share them with otherpeople for the future.
It saves you money in yourpocket.
It makes food accessible, foodlike from farm to table.
If you're growing your foodright there, you're helping with
your carbon footprint, you'rehelping the grocery bill and you
(03:38):
can do it at any kind of spacethat you have.
So I think that's like theeasiest, smallest definition I
can think of.
Another important reason tosave seeds is to save the
diversity of the species.
You want as many differenttypes of plants as possible for
like, for your nutritional needs, for diversity, for disease
resistance, all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And so for the upcoming holiday, the National
Seed Swap Day, do you have youparticipated in this kind of
event before the celebration?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Not officially.
It's funny you mentioned itbecause I was looking at this
Web page today, so I've done it,but on a micro level maybe not.
Well, actually, no, that's notentirely true either Kind of the
entire state of Florida,because I worked with a group
that was giving away seed kitsand seed kits planting, and I
was anybody who wanted them.
We were making sure they gotthem.
So I guess I've donemulti-county wide type projects
and I'm even working with seedsaving projects.
(04:35):
Even though I'm in the PNW now,I still have projects that I
was working on in Florida thatI'm checking in with and making
sure they're still going.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's awesome.
Yes, and that's how I rememberyou know us talking about this
conversation.
To begin with was your effortsto really bring this to light
for a lot of the communities inFlorida, and so I'd love to get
more deep into this topic, andobviously we touched a little
bit about the environmentalimpacts.
You mentioned biodiversity andbringing that into the picture,
(05:06):
but what are the other thingsthat you think people need to
know about the practice of seedsaving when it comes to other
aspects of the environment?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, we started a food forest in Midtown, which is
a historically Blackneighborhood in St Pete, and
people from the neighborhoodwere coming and giving us trees
to plant there and differentvarieties of trees and tropical
trees that are kind ofendangered are being planted.
So we're keeping that species aswell as encouraging people to
(05:38):
try different foods to eat,because one of the tenets of
SNAP-Ed, which I work in, is toeat the rainbow.
So they're getting morenutritional needs met and the
area of town that this wasplanted in is a food desert, so
there are no closed grocerystores and the majority of the
population down there doesn'thave a reliable source of
transportation.
So it reaches people from allgenerations, from youth up to
(06:02):
the elders in the community andit's a part of food sovereignty
and food ownership.
So they're getting to dosomething that's theirs.
They can see that it's theirsand it's growing and they take
pride in it, because there wasalso a problem with litter and
that field and it was justsitting there collecting trash
and if you take ownership andpride in it, you're not wasting
(06:23):
litter and food in there, you'reactually going to compost it.
It's like a whole system.
There was composting, we wantrain barrels and I feel like it
just affluences all aspects oflife.
Mental health care, especiallyin the PNW.
We talk about how having agarden and gardening is really
good for your mental health.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, that's such a good point to bring up and I
mean you touched on so manythings that, like I want to take
a second to dwell on a littlebit which is the fact that most
of our seeds come fromcommercial production.
So it's interesting because inthe food system we don't really,
you know, in our courses thatwe talk about nutrition, and
(07:04):
even in social justice, you know, it's kind of overlooked, I
think, as a topic, and seeds arethe foundation of food.
So when we're talking about theconnection between people and
food, seeds I think have to be apart of that conversation,
right, and it seems that for alot of years that really hasn't
been the case, but in someplaces that is starting to
(07:27):
become a more popular topic.
So I think the ideas that youshared about, you know, the
transportation, the packaging,the production of seeds like
that's a really big aspect thatI think we forget in talking
about environmental impacts andalso taking charge of your own
(07:47):
growing practice, the foodsovereignty piece is so powerful
.
I think we also often forgetthe role of people in food just
the average consumer, and howthey can really take control
back, like you said.
So another aspect is, you knowthe idea that people will maybe
start to be more avid organicgardeners, right.
(08:11):
So what do you think thebenefits of that have been in
your experience, besides themental health aspect?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, I think, nutritionally speaking, and
maybe the less in the exposureto chemicals, because we have
such a huge toxic load thatwe're carrying around Like you,
breathe, you drink the water.
You only can control so manydifferent aspects, right, but if
you're growing thingsorganically as possible, you're
not getting that same exposure,because we know there's certain
(08:41):
plants, certain fruits andvegetables that absorb more of
those chemicals than others.
So I think that's reallyimportant to be aware of.
Now.
Would I tell someone not to eatfood that they got from the
grocery?
Absolutely not.
You have to eat what'savailable to you and you only
have so many resources.
But, as we learned during COVID, our food system needs an
overhaul, because we're only afew days from the grocery stores
(09:02):
being empty from food.
Look at this most recent BobCyclone that we had here.
The grocery stores on WhidbeyIsland had to start throwing
away perishables because, well,the power had been out for so
long.
What are you going to do in asituation like that?
It's not like the olden days.
You grew your own food, youcanned your own food, you stored
it in your root cellar or yourbasement, so you had some kind
(09:25):
of reserves in case somethinghappened.
Right Now, again, that's not anattainable goal for everyone.
I don't have a root cellar, butI do have a balcony.
I have a place outside.
I can do a little postage stampgarden and grow food.
Like that we can do communitygardens.
So maybe you don't have a spaceat home in which to grow things
, but you can use your localneighborhood community garden to
(09:45):
grow food that you're eating,and a lot of gardens will let
you do it for free or for a lowcost, so that it's not another
barrier to access of.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think there's like an evolution in gardening lately
in terms of people wanting tostart growing their own foods,
even fermenting their own foods,canning, preserving those
things that were kind of theantiquated practices of food
systems, I think are beingbrought back as a more popular
way of, you know, eating andenjoying food as well.
So those are really greatinsights and, as far as you know
(10:26):
, I think there's a lot of maybemisconceptions about seed
saving, that maybe it's just toolaborious or too complicated.
Tell us more about those.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Okay.
Well, I think with anything newthere's some trepidation, like
there's a little fear associatedwith how do I do this?
How do I start?
Where do I store them?
Oh, I don't have enough time,all those concerns that are just
part of the human condition andI completely understand.
So I say start small, right,where do you store it?
Well, your countertop, thefridge, maybe, depending on the
(10:59):
temperature of your place.
And what seeds are you saving,on the temperature of your place
?
And what seeds are you saving?
Save the things that you eatall the time because you know
you love them, you know you'regoing to want to eat them.
Save the healthiest, mostjuiciest, delicious looking
plant and it will hopefullyproduce the same for you, and
then pick it yourself up again.
Maybe you start and you forgetto water them or you don't clean
them well enough, right, that'sanother thing people don't know
(11:21):
.
You just need to clean theseeds before you save them
because you don't want mold orbugs, especially if you're in
Florida to try and enjoy theseeds you've saved, but also
just being able to pick yourselfup again, because I've done
seed saving by accident.
Frankly, you're like oh wow,this is real, real ripe and it's
kind of too far for me to eat.
I'm going to throw this outsideon my makeshift compost bin.
(11:44):
I say makeshift compost becauseI'm a very lazy composter.
Like you can get a bin, you canturn it and all that.
But my method has always kindof been let's just throw it
outside.
And a lot of times those thingsstart growing and you're like,
yay, I have a volunteer plantthat I can now harvest from and
then I can just save the seedsthat came off those plants,
(12:04):
right, like your peas, yourlegumes, your beans, all of
those.
You wait till the little thepod dries out and gets brown and
then you keep the seeds.
They're like the easiest, Ithink, low impact thing to save
Because like you just pick itand you just save it.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's a good point and so, yeah, I feel like for
the folks that think it is waytoo complicated or too time
consuming, it's definitely afeasible thing to do because,
just like you said, it could bea matter of just tossing an
apple or something into thebackyard and seeing what happens
saving the seeds, cleaning theseeds.
(12:45):
It doesn't take that mucheffort, and we'll get into the
actual tips in how you can startthis practice in a moment here.
But I also want to talk aboutfor a second the other myth,
which is do you really need tohave a large garden or a space
to be able to start saving seedsand growing your own foods?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Not at all.
You can do it in any space youhave.
When I lived in Arizona I had awindow box and it had cucumbers
and tomatoes and all kinds ofthings just in my living room.
So really any space that you'rein you can grow something.
Maybe you just do fresh herbsbecause you're limited for time
and space.
That's fine too.
They have cute littlehydroponic towers that are like
(13:28):
mini, mini size, like littlegrowing inside kits, so you can
do whichever investment you want.
Like five bucks is all you haveto spend.
That's fine.
You spend five bucks.
You upcycle some containers,you have something to grow at
home, saving seeds.
Keep all your old jars and thenclean them out and then store
the seeds in there.
It's doable.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Those are really good points, and I think you're
touching on other pieces of thiskind of sustainable life
practice, which is just reusingother things that you also have
in your own home, even like eggcartons and things that, like
you, typically throw out.
I've been seeing so many videoslately about saving those
things and reusing them and notputting them in our landfill, so
(14:13):
those are really good ideas.
I think that our listeners canjust start to apply today after
listening to this.
But I also want to kind of goback to the basics for a second
for seed saving.
So once you have a plant that,let's say, you want to harvest
the seeds from, what are thetips or the steps you need to
(14:35):
take in order to harvest themappropriately?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Okay.
So it depends on the kind ofplant, because some are juicier
than others and you have to doit at a certain time.
So I would say, for beans,legumes, peas those are like my
go-to.
Anything that makes a littleseed pod like Egyptian spinach
is awesome.
We grew some of those at aschool and they were in raised
beds.
It got taller than me and itproduces pods all over the place
(15:00):
.
So you just let it go to seed,that is, you let it go past the
date where you're actually goingto try and eat it, because now
it's got the flowers, they'vebeen pollinated.
Oh my gosh, look, it's gotlittle seed pods on there that
have thousands of seeds,thousands, thousands and
thousands.
So with those you literallyjust kind of open up and they're
teeny, tiny and you put themall in an envelope and you label
(15:21):
it and you stick it somewhereuntil the next growing season.
That's it For ones like that,super easy, already dry when you
harvest it.
So something like tomatoes arereally juicy, right.
So you got to let them.
You let them kind of ferment alittle bit.
You like take all the seeds outand you just sit them somewhere
and it gets all nice and goopyon the top.
So you know, the fermentationprocess has kind of taken that
(15:43):
coating off of the seeds alittle bit.
You can't see me, it's apodcast.
I'm over here like moving myfingers through the imaginary
tomato seeds, feeling how goopyit is, talking with my hands,
you know.
So then you rinse them off anduse a good strainer, just
something that won't let yourseeds escape through them.
Myself I have something realsmall seeds escape through them.
(16:05):
Myself something real small.
I'll put like a few paper towelinside the strainers, like as
you're rinsing it they won'twash down the sink because we
need them and then lay it out todry.
So you just want them really,really dry before you actually
are going to store them.
And that's tomatoes, that'stomato seeds, something like
squashes.
Again, you're going to pickonce it's really ripe squash
Watermelon is very similar.
You pick it once it's somethingat a stage where you would eat
(16:26):
it.
Since you're saving the seeds,you can let it go past when you
would eat it, because you wantto make sure the seeds are
really, really mature andthey're ready.
If you're going to save themand then squash that gourd and
like get all the seeds out.
If you've ever carved a pumpkin, like a jack-o'-lantern.
You know it's goopy, but youknow messy can be fun too.
(16:47):
So you get all the little seedsout and they still have the
little strings and stuff on themthat we don't eat, but it was
what's attached in the seed tothe inside and you just need to
rinse those off again.
Rinse them off really reallygood Get all the flesh off of
them and then dry the seeds.
I've seen differentarrangements for that, like a
screen.
You can spread them out on ascreen and then put a fan on
them for a couple of days.
(17:07):
Just want to make sure they'rereally, really dry before you
then store them and label them.
Store them somewhere cool, putthe date on them so you know
what date you harvested them,and then you're ready to plant
again next season.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Wow, I mean, that sounds really easy to do.
you're making it sound like no,you know, only a few minutes
here and there and you're donewater, the seeds some time yeah,
maybe, except for the squashand the, the more juicier um
fruits and vegetables that youjust mentioned, that you know
you have to take the time tothoroughly wash.
(17:41):
So, in terms of how long theseseeds last, what does that look
like?
In terms of, like you want tosave the seeds this summer but
you want to plant them next year?
Like what is that?
How long do these seedstypically last?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I think that's completely fine.
As long as you store them well.
They should last for at least ayear and maybe more.
It depends on the species, thevariety, the climate Like, and
maybe more.
It depends on the species, thevariety, the climate Like.
If it's super humid, youputting them in the fridge will
help them last longer for you.
And of course, the germinationrate, like how many seeds are
actually healthy and viable, aregoing to make a new plant.
It's going to vary based onwhich kind of plant you're using
(18:16):
.
So the first year you should begolden shouldn't be no problem
and then each succeeding yearyou'll have fewer and fewer.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, Okay, and as far as drying them properly, do
you recommend air drying overlike the actual hair dryer
method?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Who's using a hair dryer.
I mean, I suppose you could useone if you had it on a cool
setting, but it would depend onhow many seeds you're using and
why use the electric when you.
I mean when you could just laythem out, let them dry.
That's basically what I woulddo In Florida.
I probably would stick a fan onthem or, if you're somewhere
super humid, don't put them insunlight, because we really
(18:53):
don't want to fry the poorlittle seeds before they get
started.
You want to keep them dry sothey don't try to germinate
before you're ready for them tobecome a new plant, because
that'll affect how many plantsyou'll get the next year, and
even if they only last to thenext growing season.
Well, if you save the seedsthat result from that, then
you're good to go.
If you just save a few seedsevery growing season, you should
(19:14):
always, always, have that plant.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Right, right, that makes a lot of sense.
So, as far as the seeds thatpeople want to save at home, do
you recommend you know, justlike you said before about
whatever food or item you haveat home that you think is
tasting amazing and you'resaving those kinds of seeds Do
you have a recommendation as faras, if people don't have a
(19:37):
particular fruit or vegetable athome that they want to grow,
where they should source thoseseeds and how they could find
out what's growing native totheir area?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I love this question.
I was hoping you'd answer thisquestion because I know I go
around a bunch of topics and Ithought of this earlier.
So my favorite thing was to goto my neighborhood nurseries and
I'm talking the person who'sgrowing food in their backyard
and say, hey, because those arethe things that you already know
are successful.
They're already happy in thisenvironment because a lot of
times when you order seeds fromseed catalogs, they come from
(20:08):
all over the country, fromdifferent places, so that may be
the best seeds ever, but theymay not work where you live for
your particular environment.
So if you find plants that arealready growing there, they're
already happy and you sourcethose seeds again carbon
footprint, supporting locals,supporting a small business and
native species.
I got a lot of plants that Iwould distribute.
People had never heard of beforebut they grew really well in
(20:31):
Florida.
So it's like you're used tospinach.
Like a lot of people want togrow the spinach they get at the
grocery store.
That is not the spinach thatgrows in Florida.
Like, really, like, really,really.
It's too hot, too hot for it,and that's true with a lot of
different lettuce varieties InFlorida.
They just don't like it.
But you can grow other speciesthat will be perennials and will
(21:04):
just keep growing, like myOkinawan spinach.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
It just keeps going.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
It's the gift that keeps giving.
So I much would rather growsomething like that and learn to
taste something new that willbe successful.
Hey look, you're still alive.
This is great.
You go out and harvest some foryour salad and keep moving.
Maybe you water them a littlebit if it's super, super dry.
Some of my poor little ones, Imean, it was really well dry and
maybe I had to go on a trip.
You come back you think they'redead.
You water them a little bit.
Oh my gosh, you made it.
Yes, so that's my method.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That's exciting to see when something is actually
going to come through the soiland it's green and it looks
perfect and new.
I love seeing that, even in myown plants at home, just
household plants that are justsprouting a new leaf.
It's such a nice little feelingin your heart, but I'm sure
that there are.
You know, with this comes maybesome practice makes perfect.
(21:47):
But what do you see?
As far as some of the commonbeginner mistakes, or saving
seeds.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
I think not cleaning them well enough, really Like,
if you're lazy I myself, youknow you worked a long day
things happen.
Oh, I'm sure it's fine if Ileave that little bit of pumpkin
on there, or squash or whatever.
Maybe you don't want to cleanyour tomato seeds off all the
way, or maybe you don't let themferment a little bit, get a
little goopy.
Well, if you leave it and it'sstill a little damp and you go
(22:17):
to store it, then you're talkinglike mildewy or mold, which is
going to inhibit the growth, orit's still moist and it starts
trying to germinate and sproutin your fridge.
So now you can't really usethose seeds because they weren't
stored properly, forgetting tolabel them right.
It seems like such a simplething, but let me tell you I had
some seeds that were given tome, but the person had no idea
(22:39):
what they were and I wound upnever giving them to anyone
because I'm like what is that?
This is great, thank you.
But what are?
I don't know, and like.
Sometimes I can look at a seedand tell but you?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
But what are?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I don't know and like sometimes I can look at a seed
and tell, but sometimes I'mreally not sure what that is.
Wow, I mean, the fact that youcould look at a seed and tell is
pretty impressive.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, thank you, I just I love that and I know
you've been really activeactually with seed libraries and
making sure people can accessseeds in in different capacities
.
So what?
What does a seed librarytypically look like for someone
who has never been to one, andwhat is the idea behind it?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So we have seed libraries.
There's some in Florida.
You should check your locallibrary because they are in a
lot of libraries and they looklike the old school card catalog
If you've never seen one.
It's a multiple file withlittle drawers you can pull out
and it usually has seed packetsand you can just take them.
You can let them know, you givethem your library card number,
you walk out the door with seedsto plant in the yard.
It's amazing and I'm glad yougot to see libraries because
(23:40):
they all can look different.
We have one in my office herenow.
It's a collaboration with thelocal Master Gardeners and I
love it.
We got seeds donated and soover $8,000 worth of seeds so
I've been able to take some to ahigh school.
I met with somebody fromSeattle Public Schools and she
came and got a huge bag of seedsto distribute to multiple
(24:00):
different schools.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Oh, that's fun.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Throughout the entire school district, so it gives my
heart joy.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's really exciting, yeah, cause I also
don't think that seed librariesare talked about enough.
Even with the local publiclibraries that we have, I don't
think there's enough marketingabout it or just people talking
about the fact that you can getseeds from your library.
There is not enough push forthat kind of thing.
So definitely I encourageeveryone listening to ask your
(24:30):
local libraries if they have aseed library and how to, you
know, start using that.
So that's definitely somethingthat folks should be aware of.
And I also want to bring intothe conversation, just in
general, the impact of seedsaving in the food system.
How do you think, hillary, seedsaving really can change the
(24:55):
narrative of our food systemtoday if more people started to
practice this?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I think they'd have to sit up and take notice.
For one thing, it would helpthe food system, because I've
heard the fact that PinellasCounty is the peninsula in the
peninsula of Florida and itwould only take about three days
of being cut off of the foodsystem to start running out of
food.
So if people had food in theirown backyards, there would be
less reliance on the grocerystore.
(25:22):
I think the shift of attitudestowards food like marketers
would have to think about wow,we've been doing this for years.
Maybe we should do things thatenhance this, or how can we
support this instead of just,you know, making overproduced
things that nobody actuallyreally needs to consume.
I wanted to bring up anotherfact too for people with SNAP-Ed
(25:43):
, which is the major populationI work with, you can buy seeds
and food plants with your SNAPdollars.
So that's another thing that Idon't think is talked about
enough, but I think that wouldhelp a lot for low-income
families to start becoming evenmore self-sustaining,
self-sufficient, less reliant onthe local infrastructure that
(26:03):
they maybe have troubleaccessing.
I love what you said about seedbanks, because I had to go and
seek out that knowledge to findout that we had seed banks.
I didn't know they existed tillI started looking for them.
So I think knowledge really ispower, so things that we can do,
things like this podcast,things like going to local
events, things like the TampaBay Collar Green Festival, which
you joined me at this year Ikeep emphasizing that and
(26:27):
working like reaching across theBay Like it used to just be St
Pete and then it's now Tampa Bay, reaching out to different
counties and different regionalhubs to see and to share seeds,
because that increases theamount of diversity of things
you have access to and it alsohelps your wallet, because the
grocery store is not getting anycheaper.
(26:47):
So, as you're growing things athome, you have better access and
if you have the room in youryard to have fruit trees, maybe
having an exchange justthroughout your neighborhood
where people can come get themangoes and then if you're
growing something else, you canshare that with them.
I'm also a fan of like barterand trade, that everything
doesn't have to be dollars based, because I think that would
(27:07):
support people who are lowerincome or having trouble with
getting to a grocery storebecause of transportation and
other issues.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Absolutely no.
Those are such great points,and thank you for also
mentioning the Snap EBT users,because, again, that's another
great way of spending thosedollars.
And even I'm thinking of thepeople that might be really,
really new to growing food andare not sure whether or not the
seeds that they're starting tosave are going to be
(27:37):
successfully grown in theirbackyard or in their balconies.
Are there resources or toolsthat you recommend people check
out in order to know what mightgrow best in their climates?
Like, are there those kinds ofthings that you would like to
share with folks listening?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Absolutely.
I recommend highly your localextension office because
extension is for helping peoplefind solutions.
It will be attached to a localuniversity and they will have a
whole resource and a lot oftimes they'll have master
gardeners.
You can contact a horticulturaldesk so that you can ask them
about the seeds, the growingconditions.
There will be classes andcourses that are either free or
(28:17):
at a reduced price to help youkind of get your foot in the
door if you're interested indoing something like this, and I
would look for local nonprofits.
Back in St Pete I was a part ofthe Sustainable Urban
Agriculture Coalition, solooking for places like that
that have an interest in growingand urban gardening, I think
would go a long way as far asgetting started, because I know
(28:39):
it can be daunting to startanything new and I really don't
blame you.
It can seem like a lot, butfood is one of the most
important things you can do.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yes, yes it is, and I like what you said before too,
about working across kind ofregions and looking at even
networks that exist, like localseed saving networks, seed swaps
, community gardens, nurseries,like looking into all of your
local established gardeners orplaces that are currently doing
(29:09):
something similar to this andtrying to lean in for their help
and their support, especiallythe extension agents as well.
And so, before we kind of wrapthis up, I'd like to know, from
your perspective, what do youthink the future of seed saving
looks like, how do you thinkthat it currently, in the
(29:31):
current perspective of things,how it could be better, and what
would you do to encouragepeople to really, you know, pick
this up today if they could?
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Oh my gosh, that is like a lot of really great
questions.
So I think the future of itlooks like more people getting
involved.
Our master gardeners here had,I think, 500 applicants for this
year and they only have justover 100 spaces, but 500 people
applied knowledge.
(30:07):
There are people who want tolearn about gardening, saving
seeds, growing their own foodand, like you mentioned, canning
.
We do pressure can testing atthe office so, like you can
bring in your pressuring gear,we can make sure that it's
working correctly so that yourfood is safe to eat.
So I think there's going to bea lot more people interested in
that.
And 4-H agencies like 4-H.
Like if we can encourage morechildren to get involved, get
(30:29):
more volunteers to work with 4-Hagencies.
Like 4-H.
Like if we can encourage morechildren to get involved, get
more volunteers to work with 4-H.
I did the Super Saturday hereand it was really heartening to
see all these youth who are sowell behaved and so interested
in what I was teaching them andso capable.
Like it teaches you more thanjust learning.
It's self-sufficiency, but notjust OK, I know how to put my
clothes on in the morning, I cango to school.
Life skills like things weactually need and that have been
(30:50):
lost along the way.
So I think encouraging that andmaybe how we approach social
media Now.
I can't tell you what to do withthat, because it's a huge, huge
thing, but a way to reach outto people, to cut through the
noise, because there's so muchnoise online.
But there's also usefulresources and useful
organizations.
So I would say morecollaborations and more
(31:13):
partnerships, becausecollaborating is how we get
anything done, like they'venever had a seed bank in my
office before and I got here andI've been here just over six
months and we have a seed bank.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yay, that's excellent yes.
It makes me so happy.
And just just speaking oncollaboration between the both
of us, I know that while youwere still in Florida, you and I
started the seed saving groupin the Florida Local Food
Network, which is part of ourFlorida Local Food Project at
Florida Organic Growers.
That's a lot of terms rightthere, but we are really trying
(31:48):
to shine a light on this topicas much as possible and work
with people like you who arereally wise, you know, can
provide the wisdom andexperience and support into
encouraging people to dosomething like this that not
only can affect your health andmental well wellbeing, but also
your complete surroundings.
(32:08):
So it's really nice to have youon the show today and I'm
really grateful to have thisopportunity to talk to you more
about this topic and share morelight on this.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Thank you, it's been really great to be here today.
I really try to rein myself in,because I get off on this topic
and I'm like, oh, but thisthing, and then this oh, and
there's also this, you know.
So yes, we.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
We definitely could spend another few episodes
chatting, you and I, and I thinkthat we'll probably have you
back in the future for sure totalk about some other things
that you and I both love verydearly.
But I would like to take amoment also to thank our
listeners for joining us forthis insightful conversation on
seed saving with the incredibleHillary Miller.
(32:53):
We hope you're inspired tostart saving seeds, whether it's
from your favorite backyardtomatoes or a community garden
project, and remember that thissimple act can really have a
profound impact on theenvironment, our food systems
and future generations.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, don't forget to
subscribe, leave a review andshare it with someone who loves
(33:16):
gardening or sustainable livingtips.
You can follow us for more tipsby listening to Fresh Take on
wwwfoginfoorg or by searchingfor Fresh Shake in any of your
favorite podcast streamingplatforms.
Until next time, keep saving,thriving and making an impact.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Port Organic Growers is a 501c3nonprofit organization, so to
keep our content available andfree to the public, we need your
help.
Please subscribe, rate andreview wherever you listen, and
consider making a tax-deductibledonation or become a sponsor.
Learn more about our work andhow you can become a sponsor
from our website, wwwboginfoorg.
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