August 15, 2024 • 56 mins
Do you ever wonder how media and corporate interests shape our political landscape? Join us on this special edition of the Friends in Wonder podcast as Vince Kern and Joe Luther reconnect to delve into Joe's passionate involvement in the Kennedy campaign in Michigan. Joe, an attorney with a rich background in political science, shares his motivations and experiences as a volunteer coordinator, underscoring his belief in the candidate’s integrity and dedication to transparent political discourse. We'll uncover the grassroots efforts that shaped his year-long journey and discuss the challenges and triumphs he faced along the way.
Explore the pervasive influence of media corporations on public discourse and political division. Our discussion examines how profit-driven media companies manipulate public perception and foster conflict, making it difficult for people to see the larger forces at play. Joe provides a unique perspective on generational differences in media consumption, noting the younger generation's savvy navigation of the complex media landscape.
We also tackle the challenges faced by third-party candidates like Mr. Kennedy, who strive to bring genuine grassroots movements into the political arena. Learn about the concept of "corporate capture" and the importance of seeking diverse sources of information. This episode highlights the significance of community involvement and personal responsibility in political engagement, urging listeners to take an active role in shaping the nation’s future.
Explore the pervasive influence of media corporations on public discourse and political division. Our discussion examines how profit-driven media companies manipulate public perception and foster conflict, making it difficult for people to see the larger forces at play. Joe provides a unique perspective on generational differences in media consumption, noting the younger generation's savvy navigation of the complex media landscape.
We also tackle the challenges faced by third-party candidates like Mr. Kennedy, who strive to bring genuine grassroots movements into the political arena. Learn about the concept of "corporate capture" and the importance of seeking diverse sources of information. This episode highlights the significance of community involvement and personal responsibility in political engagement, urging listeners to take an active role in shaping the nation’s future.
We welcome, value and appreciate all feedback. Please feel free to share your comments or suggestions for future topics at: talk@friendsinwonder.com and visit friendsinwonder.com to rate, review, subscribe or share this episode or show.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100082419702374
Twitter: @friendsinwonder
Instagram: @friendsinwonder
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vince (00:01):
Welcome and thank you for joining another edition of the
Friends in Wonder podcastbrought to you by two lifelong
friends who've been walkingtheir dogs together proverbially
for over 55 years whilewondering about the things that
are meaningful in life.
Joe Luther is an accomplishedattorney with a political
(00:21):
science degree from Wayne StateUniversity, an entrepreneur,
family man and mentor.
Vince Kern has a journalismdegree from Wayne State
University and had a30-year-long career in the media
business as both a journalistand an operations director.
You can find Friends in Wonderpodcast on any of your streaming
(00:43):
platforms, as well asfriendsinwondercom.
Again, thank you for joining us, joe, are you ready?
Joe (00:52):
How can I not be ready to talk to you, Vince?
Vince (00:56):
Well, welcome folks to a special edition of our Friends
in Wonder podcast.
I'm here with my co-host, joeLuther, and we haven't done a
podcast in a while.
For those of you who have beenwith us, you might know that
we've done about 33 podcastsover our adventure into
podcasting.
(01:17):
This is our first video podcast, however, so thank you for
joining us with any warts thatmay come about as a result of
this.
I hope we're presentable.
Joe, you're looking good today.
How the heck are you?
Joe (01:29):
Thank you, vince.
I'm doing quite well and I'mexcited to be doing this kind of
special episode, yeah.
Vince (01:36):
Well, you're all adorned in your Kennedy stuff and that
is one of the main reasons we'redoing this.
Joe, I haven't seen you in awhile.
You've been out in the worldfor quite a while now on the
Kennedy campaign trail here inMichigan and that is a bit of a
different experience for you.
I know you have a degree inpolitical science from Wayne
(02:01):
State University in Detroit.
You're an attorney.
You were a businessman for many, many, many years, entrepreneur
, mentor of many people, andwhen we were younger I remember
sitting in your driveway once Ithink we were about 14 years old
, and you were telling me thatother people, as well as
(02:23):
possibly yourself, hadaspirations to be the President
of the United States andapparently that didn't come to
fruition.
But you are out there promotingthe Kennedy campaign.
Joe, can you talk a little bitabout what you're doing and what
motivated you to do this at theage of?
I think you're 65 now and youcould be doing many, many other
(02:45):
things, like one of thecandidates says.
Joe (02:48):
Well, thank you, vince.
Actually I'm 64.
I'm soon to be 65.
But, yeah, what motivated me todo this first and foremost is
that I believe in the candidateand most of my life, as you said
I was a political science majorI've been fascinated by
politics and because I went tolaw school and became a lawyer I
(03:10):
don't practice anymore I'vealways been very fascinated by
the political process, thelawyers that seem to dominate
the scene in Washington DC,issues, know, issues with the
Supreme Court all of that havefascinated me over the years and
(03:31):
probably, like a lot ofAmericans, I've been frustrated
with the way American politicshas gone over really over my
lifetime, the last 50 years thatI've been paying attention
anyhow, and you know, here'sfinally a candidate.
In my opinion, and I think ifpeople take time to get to know
him and probably everybody'sopinion, who really knows him is
somebody who's really all aboutintegrity and about service and
(03:53):
about being in politics for theright reasons.
Whether you agree 100% witheverything that he stands for,
what he does stand for is a fulland transparent discussion
about the issues and when you dothat, you recognize that this
is a very sincere, good-heartedperson.
(04:13):
And when he decided to go inthe race.
I had already been reallyfamiliar with his life, and it
was in the wake of COVID.
He had written the real AnthonyFauci book, which you know I
read cover to cover and I wasall in when he decided that he
(04:35):
wanted to be part of this.
I made a personal commitmentthat if he's going to really
risk everything, risk his career, risk literally his life by
doing this, the least I can doas a 64-year-old man is
everything I can to help him getthere.
So that was my motivation.
That's why now I'm a volunteerhere in Michigan.
Vince (04:59):
And how long have you been doing this, and tell me a
little bit about what being avolunteer here in Michigan means
for you.
What do you do?
How much time does it take?
We're going to talk a littlebit about the experience out
there in the field in a while,but just for those who have
never been on a campaign before,let's talk about your role,
like I said, how long you'vebeen doing it, what you do.
Joe (05:19):
Well, first thing that people don't really understand.
Even some of the volunteersthat work in our campaign don't
understand.
This is a grassroots campaign.
There's no big money or oiledmachine behind what we're doing,
so it's volunteers, all handson deck.
I don't officially work for theKennedy campaign.
(05:40):
In fact, anything I'm saying onthis podcast is not official or
is in no way reflective ofanything to do with the campaign
.
In fact, anything I'm saying onthis podcast is not official or
is in no way reflective ofanything to do with the campaign
.
It's just my observations as avolunteer, and literally most of
us on the campaign arevolunteers.
I'm a volunteer, excuse me, incharge of Southeastern Michigan,
(06:03):
you know, kind of coordinatingvolunteers in Southeastern
Michigan.
We have other coordinators inMacomb and Wayne County and that
kind of thing.
But I've been in it sincereally January working with the
campaign and going back all theway a year ago to July 4th, my
wife and I, sonia, we sponsoreda parade.
(06:27):
Well, we didn't sponsor theparade, but we sponsored being
in the parade on behalf of MrKennedy.
So it's been over a year thatI've been kind of campaigning on
his behalf and really sinceFebruary that I've been working
real hard and now we're in.
You know, here it is the end ofAugust or middle of August and
(06:50):
we're really in the campaignearnest now and it's been
interesting, it's been fun, it'sbeen interesting, it's been
energizing.
Vince (07:00):
It's been frustrating.
It's been a lot of things.
It's been interesting to watchthis campaign change.
Obviously we're in a historiccampaign with the shift from
Biden to Harris and all of thethings that have happened.
And you know I wonder what itwas like out there in the field.
And tell me about the differenttypes of things you're doing in
the field.
And you know people seem to bepretty charged up before Biden
(07:23):
dropped out.
Obviously, between Trump andBiden, a lot of divisiveness out
there.
I recall when we were younger,you know there were lawn signs
everywhere.
People openly spoke aboutthings, issues, and this
divisiveness has got to be outthere in a bigger way than you
know me sitting at home andwatching all this through my
(07:45):
screens and and not really beingout there.
So what's it like?
Joe (07:51):
Yeah, you know that's a.
You know it's a great question,vince, and that's really a big
part of what I would love to getpeople to understand in this
podcast is is that I had neverlike.
Yeah, we, everybody keeps trackof current events in their own
way, through TV, through newsmedia, whatever it is but I'd
(08:11):
never really worked like this ona campaign, on the streets,
interacting with others, and sosome of the things that we've
done, like from the beginning,when I joined the campaign, it
was all about getting signaturesfor them to get them on the
ballot, and the first couple ofmonths that was all we were
doing.
So I was standing out in frontof farmers markets or post
offices or whatever and justinterjecting with the public,
(08:35):
asking them if they're willingto, you know, sign a petition to
get somebody on the ballot.
And and that's a fascinatingprocess in and of itself because
you know we're not a lot oftimes I would say, listen, I'm
not asking you to vote for him,I'm just asking you to sign for
his right to be on the ballot,and you would think most people
would be okay with just anybodybeing on the ballot, as long as
(08:57):
he's qualified.
Certainly, mr Kennedy is anattorney for 40 years, got the
Kennedy family name behind him.
If you know anything about him,he's probably more qualified
than the other two candidates,but that's opinion speaking.
But he's certainly qualified tobe on the ballot.
And people just you know, manypeople just didn't want any part
(09:18):
of that and I was at first kindof shocked by that because you
would think, right, no matterwhat your political leaning is,
that you'd be okay with therebeing, you know, more people on
the ballot and more discussionabout issues.
But I noticed that early on andI realized, wow, we are really
a divided nation and we're dugin to believing that our side is
(09:39):
right and anything else is bad.
It's not good to talk toanybody else, they just
represent something that is initself bad.
And it was shocking for me atfirst dealing with that.
You know, I think there's ameme out there that it was one
of my favorites.
It's a little cartoon and I hadit on my refrigerator for a
(10:02):
long time and it's a king up inthe castle looking down at the
subjects, I guess you would callthem, and there's just this
swarm of mob of people and theyhave torches on one side and
pitchforks on the other side andthe king says no, no, you don't
have to defeat them, you justhave to convince the people with
(10:23):
the pitchforks that the peoplewith the torches want to take
away their pitchforks.
And that's.
That's the mean.
And if you think about it,that's really what's going on in
America is, is everybodybelieves that they're right and
that the other side is trying totake something away from them.
And you bring in an independentcandidate and people just, I
(10:44):
can tell you they literallyexplode.
They don't know what to do withit and I've had some real
interesting reactions.
Some have been good and I gotto tell you most people are good
, but there's a lot ofdivisiveness out there and you
mentioned the you know the lawnsigns.
Yeah, people don't even reallywant to talk about it because
(11:09):
they're just building up whatthey believe is right inside of
them and not wanting to go outand express ideas with others
about it.
Some people even falselybelieve that you know they'll be
attacked if they express ideas.
I mean, I hope it's false.
I don't think that it's as badas people make it, but what we
(11:31):
have is a bunch of suppressedpeople holding in their opinions
and not wanting to talk toothers about ideas, and I think
that's what's so invigoratingabout Mr Kennedy as a candidate
is that he doesn't want to talknegative about the other people.
He just wants to talk about thereal issues and all the other
(11:53):
stuff, all the other arguing hecalls the jingly keys.
That makes people look in thatdirection and not talk about the
real issues, and that's whatmakes me so excited to be part
of.
This is I think it's historicin the last several decades in
that we're really finallytalking about issues again.
Vince (12:16):
Yeah, what do you think that the reason people feel
unable to express their opinion?
You know, to me this goes tothe reason people feel unable to
express their opinion.
You know, to me this goes to.
When you talk about the kingand the castle, you know, you
might as well put a mediacorporation, the media, up there
(12:38):
on the balcony, because itseems like the media is
facilitating the divisivenessWe've got plenty of examples of.
When you talk about peoplebeing afraid that you know
they'll be attacked, there's newways to attack people
censorship, silencing theiropinions.
You know all of that sort ofthing.
What do you attest to this?
(12:59):
You know this divisiveness, Imean, I a few things, but is
that, is that what you're seeingout there in the field?
Joe (13:05):
well, I think yeah you, you kind of touched on it.
So right, and that's a goodpoint.
The meme shows a king lookingdown at his subjects.
But who is the king and who is,you know, responsible for
trying to get the torches andthe pitchforks against each
other?
And you know, a lot of peoplethink that there is, like this,
cabal or whatever, and I guessit depends on how you define
cabal.
(13:27):
But what I think Mr Kennedytalks about, and what I believe
is true, is that it's reallycorporate America.
And you know that's a big, youknow phrase, corporate America.
Obviously there's a lot of goodcorporations out there, a lot
of people working incorporations that are good
people, but corporate interestshave really infiltrated the way
(13:49):
everything works in societytoday and people don't really
understand.
And certainly that's true inthe media.
And you know, the old sayingthat I think became popular over
the last five years is thatit's much easier to fool
somebody than to convince themthey've been fooled.
People, you know, watch theirnews sources and they trust
(14:10):
their news sources, but theydon't really recognize sometimes
that those news sources arereally corporate entities, that,
you know, money drives theirprofit line, money drives their
profit line, and so if we allknow that, then we should also
(14:31):
know that maybe the informationcoming from those corporate
interests might be biased, andcertainly people kind of
fighting with each other doesn'tallow you to look up at the
castle and say, okay, what'sreally going on here, like who's
really running this show?
Is it the government anymore oris it corporate interests?
And those are the issues thatthe king in the castle doesn't
(14:54):
want anyone talking about.
They would prefer everyone justbe at each other's throats.
Vince (14:59):
You know, it's interesting that you
characterize it that way.
We were in the green roomtalking a little bit before this
.
We didn't do a ton of prep workfor this because this is really
an organic discussion.
But you know, over my 30 yearsof being in the media I saw it
change quite drastically and sawinformation consumer habits
(15:22):
change very drastically with theinternet and social media
coming into play.
And now we're well into that.
I mean we're almost, you knowalmost a few years.
It'll be 20 years of FaceTimeand Facebook and Twitter and
that's what things habitsdevelop among consumers.
Now you were talking about someof the generational things that
(15:45):
you saw between people our ageconsuming information and how
they tend to.
You know from experience.
Think that we know everythingor that we're well prepared.
Five years ago I was reallyconcerned about the younger
generation's ability to consumeinformation.
(16:05):
My experience tells me that'squite the opposite, that they're
very savvy and adept.
But you've seen a lot of thatout in the field from being
around thousands of people.
Can you speak to that a littlebit?
Joe (16:18):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up and it's because what I
didn't express earlier in myactivities as a volunteer
coordinator is I've been on thestreets, like I've been to the
Tiger Stadium or Comerica Parkopening day, going out amongst
the crowds, you know, justasking for signatures, and I've
(16:41):
been to farmer's markets and 4thof July parades and um, all
sorts of events in thesummertime around here.
I was at one last night and I'mtalking to people and there
there isn't a more raw way tointeract with complete strangers
than to talk really aboutpolitics and it's and it's
fascinating to me.
You know, I, I know we're notsupposed to profile To me, you
(17:03):
know, I know we're not supposedto profile, but what I've
observed in general is that theolder you get with the people
you talk to like you know ourage, and older the boomers, the
more sure of themselves they areabout their opinions of things.
Maybe that comes with old age.
You just think that you know itall and you know I, I like in
(17:27):
the there's that phrase thateveryone is familiar.
Um, you are what you eat.
Um, everyone understands thatif you eat a bunch of cake,
you're going to become somethingthat exemplifies someone who
eats a bunch of cake, uh.
If you eat vegetables, uh, youknow, same same.
But the same is true withinformation you are what you eat
when it comes to information,and a lot of us, I think that
(17:51):
are older, have gotten very setin our ways, in how we consume
information.
And a lot of older people, youknow, haven't taken the time to
learn how to find alternateinformation on the internet,
whereas the younger generationhas figured that out and sifting
through the information that'scoming at us is very difficult,
(18:12):
and I see that on the street,because people are much more dug
in as they're older and theydon't really want to talk and
they're pretty sure that anyidea that you have is not a good
one.
And the younger you go, themore open they are to talk.
And the younger generation, inmy opinion, is extremely
(18:32):
well-informed.
And again, this is generalizing.
There's certainly indoctrinatedpeople and I don't want to
sound like I know it all becauseI don't.
I know that I don't know it all,but you can tell, humans can
tell when somebody is talking tosomeone who wants to exchange
ideas versus somebody who thinksthey they're closed-minded,
(18:53):
they're full, they don't wantanything more.
And by far, by far, the youngergeneration is open to new ideas
and the older generation hasbeen.
You know ideas and the oldergeneration has been, you know,
pretty much the hardest to talkto and I find that I find that
sad.
I find it sad that you know, aswe get older we can't learn new
tricks, that we can't be moreopen and again, I am saying this
(19:17):
as a generalization, there'splenty of us, most of the
volunteers on this campaign areolder, but I'm just profiling in
general that and that you know,by the way, that actually
tracks with the polling, and forMr Kennedy especially, is that
the younger generation really,really loves him.
The older generation eitherdoesn't know about him or
believes the misinformation outthere about him.
Vince (19:41):
Yeah, I want to talk about that misinformation in a
little bit about him.
Yeah, I want to talk about thatmisinformation in a little bit.
You know, I have an observationand an opinion about the more
openness of the youngergeneration and I think it really
boils down to habitual newssourcing and older people.
You know, when we were younger,there were three television
(20:02):
networks, three newscasts ABC,nbc, cbs and you had people like
Cronkite and Brinkley andpresidential reporters like Sam
Donaldson who were always, youknow yeah, and they were asking,
you know, these people wereasking a lot of tough questions
and that instilled a sense oftrust in these networks.
(20:31):
And that instilled a sense oftrust in these networks.
Now that was, you know, 40, 50years ago.
And obviously the impact of theinternet and social media has
changed and especially thecorporate media ownership for, I
think, the younger generation.
But for older people we tend toI call it drinking the Kool-Aid
, everybody calls it drinkingthe Kool-Aid, but I think that
(20:53):
we tend to do that as we'reolder because we built up a
trust for these sources andpeople don't realize how these
sources have changed.
They give them an infiniteamount of trust without noticing
all the other things that areshifting the big picture of the
media complex, and I think thatthe younger generation uses
(21:16):
tools like Substack, othercontent delivery sources, and
they don't.
They're not tied toinstitutional media, they're
tied to more of the truth andwhat resonates them with where
older people it's set in my way,set in my way get off my lawn.
I watch ABC news or I watch Foxnews or I watch CNN news and I
(21:39):
don't watch anything elsebecause it just reinforces my
opinion.
Now, personally, I watcheverything I can, because I
really want to see what's beingsaid all over the place, and
I've seen just a gross amount ofmisinformation about all of the
candidates, quite frankly,whether it's Trump or Biden or
(22:01):
Harris or Vance or Kennedy.
And I'm fascinated by watchingseveral of the Kennedy videos
where people ask him pointedquestions about other
politicians and he basicallysays I don't want to talk about
them.
This is this is not about this.
(22:36):
Yeah, it's about the issues,and you know, some of the things
that I've learned in watchingthis campaign is not just how
the media or campaigns wantthings to be divisive, but you
know the political powerssituation where, literally, they
decided that, no matter who wonin that state, all of the
delegates would go to Biden, sohe doesn't even have a chance
(22:59):
there.
I remember reading about that,but I guess I'm layering a bunch
of questions on it once on youhere.
Joe (23:06):
Actually, there have been a number of things I should have
been taking notes, a number ofthings I wanted to comment on
there.
First of all, one thing I wantto go back to is what you were
saying about the media andpeople's consumption habits of
the media, and one of the thingsthat I feel empowered, or not
empowered, one of the thingsthat I feel required to say is
(23:28):
that, you know, really it comesdown to individual
responsibility with the news andwhat you're consuming.
And today I'm just fascinatedby people who are willing to
accept all of their newsinformation from one source like
MSNBC, news information fromone source like MSNBC,
(23:54):
especially MSNBC or Fox, becausethey know when they're logging
on that they're going to asource that is slanted in their
direction, and there's a phrasefor that, now called echo
chambers, and people arewillingly now going into their
own echo chambers.
And of course, the electronicmedia, the corporate media, is
capitalizing on that becausethey want people staying on
(24:16):
their platform.
So you don't piss off yourviewer by talking about other
ideas, and so you just give themmore of what they want to hear.
So they go and they just theybathe in the same information
over and over again and then,when that stuff becomes a little
divisive, they just start tohave more and more contempt for
(24:40):
the other side and more and morebelief in what it is they're
consuming.
And that's that you are whatyou consume idea.
But I think it's.
You know.
We can point to the corporateinterests and say look at how
evil they are what they're doing.
But we have, we also have tolook at ourselves and and ask is
this the best way to beinformed, to just go
(25:04):
deliberately to these sourcesthat provide what you want to
hear, and are we able tooccasionally brush our teeth
with our left hand instead ofalways with the right hand?
Are we able to, you know, workboth sides of our brains and
hear, not just change from MSNBCand go to Fox, because those
(25:24):
are both literally corporateinterests, but to get out of
that cycle altogether and lookdeeper, like so many of the
people who I talk to at our ageand older about Mr Kennedy.
They don't.
They haven't even listened tohim speak on issues themselves.
They're just believing whatother people have told them to
(25:45):
believe about them.
And those who are open-mindedand recognize that that's the
case tend to say yeah, that'strue, I really haven't looked
myself, and so there's anindividual responsibility that I
think I wanted.
You know you mentioned that andI wanted to get that out, but
I'm sorry, what was the lastpart of your question?
Vince (26:06):
Well, I was.
You know.
Joe (26:07):
I was thinking about this environment of an alternative
candidate trying to you know geton the ballot and it's all part
of the corporate interest,because you know you can say
Republican or Democrat, but ifwe fundamentally understand that
corporations and this is whatMr Kennedy talks about and why
nobody wants a microphone infront of his voice, because he
(26:31):
does it far more articulatelythan me but what he calls
attention to is that corporateinterests have so permeated the
way our government runs now thatit's really a capture.
They call it a corporatecapture and you know it's true
in the regulatory agencies.
We see it all the time, becausethose people who used to run
(26:53):
the big, you know agriculturalfirms are running the Food and
Drug Administration or theDepartment of Agriculture or
whatever it is, and the same istrue throughout all of
government, and it's certainlythe same is true.
The most important thing forpeople who want to control power
is who's going to becomepresident of the United States.
(27:14):
So for sure, the Democrat andRepublican Party has billions of
dollars in their coffers andthose dollars don't come without
attachment.
It's plain and simple.
And that's why Mr Kennedy'scampaign is all about grassroots
and he couldn't be moreindependent than any other
(27:35):
campaigner or any othercandidate out there, because he
is, by virtue, unattached to anycorporate interest, by
literally unattached to anycorporate interest, and so you
know you talk about the processof how Kamala Harris, Kamala
Harris has become the candidateand what they're doing with the
(27:56):
delegate votes.
I don't really keep track ofthat, but it certainly isn't
what they're preaching, and thatis standing up for democracy,
because democracy is about, youknow, a republic is about
letting the people speak throughtheir votes, and certainly, if
you're really concerned aboutempowering the people with their
(28:18):
votes, you would want as manycandidates as possible talking
about as many ideas as possible,and anytime you're on the side
of somebody who wants to silenceanother, you really should take
a long hard look at why that is.
Why are you trying to silencethe ideas of somebody else?
(28:38):
If it's not about, you know,hurting somebody else, if it's
not about endangering the public, why aren't we willing to just
talk about ideas?
Vince (28:50):
Yeah, that's really the essence of a grassroots campaign
.
Since you and I have been alive, there have been few
alternative candidates on theballot and, uh, you know, I
(29:12):
think that's what's honorable tome about what you're doing is
that you're out there, puttingyourself out there every day,
and pardon me for saying this,but most people don't think that
kennedy has a chance in hell towin.
So I think you know there'sstill this idea, though that you
(29:32):
know is it is it.
Is it as much about the processfor you and the fairness of it
as the the result?
Or do you think that he has aviable chance in this election?
Do you think it might be downthe road in another election?
Joe (29:46):
Well, here's the thing, vince, If I were only in it
because I thought he could win,that just kind of cements the
whole idea of a two-party system, and I've argued since.
I remember literally in eighthgrade, when Richard Nixon was
running for president.
I remember arguing with a kidin class that what's wrong with
(30:07):
America is the two-party system.
We need to have at least athree-party system, because when
it's one or the other, you'reencouraging this pitchfork and
torches kind of a concept andthen you stop talking about the
real issues and so bringing inan independent candidate.
(30:28):
What I love about beinginvolved in this is it goes back
to something I've believedsince I was a little kid and
he's such a worthy candidate isthat we're finally now starting
to talk about real issues.
Now can he win?
I don't know.
People didn't think Trump couldwin in 2016.
They gave him no chance andbetween now and the election, a
(30:51):
lot of things can happen.
Certainly, they're doing theirdarndest to not make him
relevant by not allowing him todebate.
Why wouldn't they allow him todebate?
What are they afraid of?
But the reason I'm in it isbecause it's raising the level
of conversation.
The more Mr Kennedy stays in itand I know he's in it till the
(31:12):
end, and I'm going to be in ittill the end because it's good
for America.
Talking about a third partycandidate, or talking about the
real issues that a grassrootsthird party candidate brings to
the discussion, is somethingthat I passionately believe in,
and I will keep pushing for aslong as I can, because the
(31:37):
alternative is just the same old.
The same old, you know, talkingabout the really the social
issues and not the real issues.
The real issues are, you know,the real health of America, the
real quality of our food, what'sreally behind the wars that
we're involved in?
Is it about money or is itabout really fundamental issues
(32:01):
to our nation?
Talking about, you know, thegender issue?
Yeah, those are importantissues, but it's something that
just polarizes people and getsthem kind of fighting at each
other instead of talking aboutwhat's really important to you.
Can you afford a house?
Is the younger generation.
(32:22):
Maybe that's one of the reasonswhy they're looking for
alternative information, as theyknow that they're doomed if we
continue on the same path thatwe're on.
And so Mr Kennedy raises thatlevel of discussion, and that's
really what, you know, thecorporate lords who are standing
up in the castle don't want.
Vince (32:41):
Yeah, true enough.
You know, just to insertsomething here.
When we talk about accessinginformation, you'll be able to
see a lot of his ideas andcomments on Instagram.
He's got a great Instagramaccount and he promotes and he
(33:01):
speaks there openly about allkinds of things.
He's been labeled ever since hejoined the race.
I remember him going in frontof the Senate committee back, I
want to say, last fall and, andyou know, even there he was
attacked for all kinds of stuff.
You know being a conspiracytheorist, you know the
(33:25):
anti-vaxxer, the whole ball ofwax, but people don't understand
what an impact he's had on theenvironmental front and the
corporate lawsuits that he's,the things that he's done to
really help the people in hiscareer.
And you know this businessabout.
You know eating a dog and thebear it's-.
(33:47):
Worming his brain and all thatkind of thing Worming his brain
and the bear thing.
Joe (33:51):
Aaron Rodgers is his vice president.
Yeah, and there's.
There's so much about Aaron.
Vince (33:55):
Rodgers.
There's so much out there aboutall of these candidates, now it
seems like that's all we'regetting.
Are these stories that areintended to besmirch character,
to assassinate character and tokeep people from you know?
Oh well, if you speak outagainst this guy, then you're.
The common word now is weird.
Joe (34:18):
It's one liner gotchas that people and again this comes
back to personal responsibilitypeople accept this idea.
Well, I'm not interested inKennedy.
His own family hates him.
Well, really is that true inKennedy?
His own family hates him Well,really is that true?
Have you spoken to his wholefamily?
He's got 100 family members.
Maybe a few of them who arepart of the Democratic National
(34:45):
Party don't like that.
He's doing what he's doing.
But I bet you they don't hatehim.
But accepting a pejorative likehe's an anti-vaxxer, he's not an
anti-vaxxer.
He's had all the vaccines.
I've had all the vaccines.
He is about safe vaccines andwhat is wrong with that?
What's wrong with talking aboutthe actual content of a vaccine
?
Why are people afraid to talkabout that instead of just
(35:06):
calling a name and sayingsomething?
You know and this idea of wormin his brain, so like, really,
are you honestly believing thatthis candidate that is garnering
all this attention has somesort of a worm in his brain,
like it's?
It's?
It's childish to think thatthese things can actually be
considered as a truth.
(35:27):
Um, but what I will say is, ifpeople do want to learn more
about him, kennedy24.com, justgo to kennedy24.com.
There's a video segment you canclick on it.
It's divided by issue.
Just listen for yourself.
Listen for yourself.
All us older people out therewho have grandchildren who love
(35:50):
this guy.
Go find out.
Why are your grandchildreninterested in him?
Go find out for yourself.
He's a true Kennedy.
His father and uncle couldn'tbe more proud of him.
Those are the family membersthat count, and I guarantee you
that they are looking down andsmiling at this man of integrity
doing what he's doing.
Vince (36:11):
Yeah, and you know another point I would put on.
That is that when people hespeaks to these things that
people are saying to him, heopenly answers the questions
that are brought forth to him.
He talks about the brain wormthing.
He talks about why his voice isthe way it is.
(36:31):
He talks about what happenedwith the bear.
I mean, they're crazy storiesbut let's face it, we've all got
crazy stories in our closet,we've all done crazy things and
he's willing to talk about it.
And I think you know,regardless of how I wind up
voting, I think that is a signof good character.
Joe (36:50):
He's not dishonest, he's just got his own life and we all
do so what about If all you'rehearing about somebody is all
the negative, but you noticethat the same people who are
smearing the negatives won't puta microphone in front of his
face and let him speak forhimself?
(37:10):
Like that should raise somealarms and say what is going on
here?
Why are these people trying sodesperately to discredit this
guy and not give him amicrophone and speak for himself
?
You know, again, it's personalresponsibility.
You have to ask yourself what'sreally going on here.
Vince (37:28):
It's a personal responsibility.
You have to ask yourself what'sreally going on here.
Well, that's what I was justgoing to get to.
That in a sense, because now,with this transition from, I
mean, obviously one of the hitsagainst Biden was that you know,
to use the quotes his campaignin a basement and his
unavailability to the press, andnow we have a new Democratic
presidential candidate who, asof today, hasn't done an
(37:52):
interview with the press inwhatever 21 days or however many
days.
It is no microphone in front ofher other than a teleprompter.
And you know, you ask thequestion what's really going on
here?
What is the fear of putting amicrophone in front of?
So why does a campaign how do Isay this?
(38:13):
How does a campaign run acampaign without letting their
candidate speak to reporters?
And why are they keepingKennedy away from the microphone
on the debate stage?
Joe (38:26):
You know, it's just I think those are rhetorical questions,
vince, but I think you're.
You're highlighting the veryissue and I think if you put the
three of them on the stagetogether, um, you'll see.
Mr kennedy is sincere like he.
He's.
He doesn't read from ateleprompter everything,
everything.
He's a brilliant man.
(38:47):
This man brought a class actionlawsuit against Monsanto.
That is really what'sresponsible for calling
attention to glyphosate andRoundup and the poison that it
puts in our body when we eatfood that has been sprayed with
that toxin.
(39:08):
You know you can't lead alawsuit against a mega
corporation like that and not bereally smart.
This is a smart man.
In every issue that he speaksabout and he speaks about pretty
much all of them I find myselflistening and saying, oh my God,
that makes so much sense.
Yes on Ukraine.
Yes, makes so much sense.
Yes On Ukraine.
(39:29):
Yes On the Gaza strip.
Yes On you know our food.
Yes On what we need to do aboutour health.
Everything that he talks aboutis sincere, from his heart,
authentic and it's not scripted.
And the other two candidates,you can tell when they're
speaking.
Maybe Mr Trump likes to go offscript a little bit, but it's
(39:50):
some of the same.
You'll never believe how greatit is, it's the biggest, it's
the best.
That may be off script, buthe's still using talking points.
Mr Kennedy is all aboutspeaking about the issues from
his heart, because heunderstands them from his heart.
Kamala Harris I don't even knowyet.
It'll be interesting to seewhat she has to say.
(40:12):
They're they're certainlygrooming her, so when she comes
out, I guess she'll be aspolished as they can hope for.
Yeah, that's me talkingnegative about the other guys.
I will tell you I don't like todo it either.
Um, all I have to say is putall three of them on stage and
you decide who the most sincereis.
Vince (40:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's you know something.
Now, what about the effort?
Is there still an effort to gethim on into the debates, or is
that pretty much?
I?
Joe (40:39):
mean, of course that's the the and you say, you know, does
he have a chance to win?
That's his chance to win andthe other side knows it and the
corporate overlords know that.
His chance to win is getting onstage with those other two
candidates and when he does itwon't be close Like the other
two are going to finish.
You know distant seconds andthirds, but I guarantee you, you
(41:05):
put a microphone in front ofhim, in front of the people, and
they're going to all startwondering why on earth haven't
we heard more about this guysooner?
Vince (41:28):
no-transcript debate stream on his live stream, right
?
So he answered the samequestions that were put to the
other candidates and I mean Ithink to me that's fascinating.
He should be on the stage.
There's no question about it.
Joe (41:48):
It's ridiculous that he had to do what he did, but he did
it with a moderator and it wasin front of a live audience and
it was on a stage and he had alarge screen.
I don't know those probably alot of people that don't know
what happened but he had a largescreen TV with, you know, the
CNN live feed in the backgroundand it became a longer debate
(42:10):
than the actual one because whathe did is they paused after the
question between the two.
They would hit pause and thenthe moderator would ask Mr
Kennedy and he would cut him offafter the same amount of time.
And it was interesting.
They literally were cutting himoff or bringing him back to a
point.
The moderator I forget his name,he's somebody who's been on the
(42:33):
corporate media in the past butprobably couldn't because he
was speaking out too much, but Iforget his name.
But he was very good and it wasinteresting and it was probably
.
If it happens again, it'sprobably something that people
should try to find.
I think over 10 million peopletuned in live to watch it.
So it speaks volumes how wellMr Kennedy is polling and how
(42:58):
much people really want to hearabout the issues from people who
aren't scripted.
Vince (43:04):
And hopefully the next debate will.
He will be live, and if he'snot, I'm sure he'll be doing
something exciting again.
Joe (43:11):
Just don't understand why people wouldn't revolt if he, if
he isn't on, you know how manyballots?
Vince (43:17):
do you know how many ballots he's on currently?
Joe (43:20):
uh, last I heard there.
I mean there's official andthen there's um the, the states
where he's got enough signaturesor has jumped through the hoops
that are necessary.
So that's part of the problemwith becoming an independent
candidate is that there are alot of I don where he has done
(43:42):
what he's needed to do tocertify.
Some states are pushing back.
(44:09):
Obviously it's political tokind of upset the apple cart of
how corporate and governmentcooperation is operating right
now.
So they don't want him on theballots, but he's officially on
18 ballots.
I think he's got enoughsignatures on 25 more.
So 43 states that he'sofficially got enough and he's
(44:34):
put in for certification andjust waiting for the states to
certify him.
He swears this is the lawyer inhim, but he swears that he'll
be on all 50 states before theelection.
Let's hope that he will,because you really can't afford
not to be on all of them.
Vince (44:52):
But even 43 is pretty good ford not to be on all of
them, but, um, even 43 is prettygood, yeah.
Well, one comment about that isif you know the, the states are
manipulating in such a way tokeep him off the ballot.
That just is a small example,even though it's a very big
thing, of what is being done atthe higher levels to influence
(45:14):
the republican and Democraticvotes.
Joe (45:18):
Yeah, and what's wrong with America, like we always talk
about Ross Perot?
Ross Perot didn't have thisproblem, but you know he was a
billionaire who was financinghis own campaign, and so he had
a lot of resources to do what heneeded to do.
But even back then in the 90s todo, but even back then in the
90s, there was no real idea ofkeeping him off the ballot, like
(45:44):
making it difficult for him toget on the ballot.
And here we are in Americatoday, and everybody knows it.
Everybody knows that he'shaving difficulty getting on the
ballot.
Everybody knows that he'shaving difficulty getting a
microphone in front of him.
People know this, but they'reaccepting it.
And this is.
And then and then, the sametime, they're talking about
saving democracy.
Well, how in God's name are we?
What is the democracy thatwe're saving, if an independent
(46:07):
candidate named Robert KennedyJr, who's been a lawyer fighting
corporate interests for 40years, cannot get on the ballot
in the United States of America?
What is wrong with our systemtoday?
What is wrong with our system?
People have to ask that andagain, it's personal
responsibility.
We see it happening andunfolding in front of our eyes
(46:29):
and yet we just kind of shrugour shoulders and accept it as
the new normal.
Well, it shouldn't be a normal.
We should be able to havesomebody named Robert Kennedy Jr
on the ballot in every state.
What are we afraid of?
Vince (46:44):
We afraid of it winning.
Joe (46:46):
I guess maybe that's what we're afraid of.
Vince (46:49):
You know, joe, for over 55 years, you and I have had a
lot of deep discussions aboutwondering, as we are friends, in
wonder about many things, and Ilove your passion, I honor your
passion, I honor your mission.
We haven't had a lot of time,you know, to talk about some of
the experiences.
I really, as we wind this down,I'd love to hear about some of
(47:14):
your firsthand stories that youmight have from from doing all
this, whether humorous or sad,or or a lot of it, you know, I
will tell you.
Joe (47:26):
So one of the funny stories that I like to tell people is
that, you know, when I was outpetitioning for signatures, it
be, you know, it's like anything, you try to find the
low-hanging fruit right.
You want to go to a place whereyou think you're going to get
the most people willing to sign.
So you might go to a.
Like, if there was a medicalfreedom rally, you'd probably
(47:47):
want to go to that and there'dbe a lot of people that would
want to sign for mr kennedy.
Um, if you went to someplacewhere they're more likely to be,
you know, people that are areare for somebody else, it might
be different.
Well, I, I would go to farmer'smarkets and, you know,
especially early on, and itwould be quite a cross section
of of America.
I got, I got to the point whereI started to become afraid.
(48:10):
Again, this is a little bit ofprofiling, but I became a little
bit afraid of older women,especially Caucasian older women
.
They just seemed to be the kindthat would snap at me, you know
, the most vigorously.
And it actually got to thepoint where you know, because I
would go out quite a bit on thestreets looking for signatures,
(48:33):
signatures.
I almost cowered a little bitwhen I saw them coming like, oh,
these people, they, they,they're gonna bark at me.
Um, that that's kind of a uh,you know a funny story.
Um, you wouldn't expect that,right, you would expect them to
be kind of the sweetest, butwhen it comes to politics
they're really dug in on theirpositions.
Um, but, um, what I?
What I found all right.
(48:54):
So my personal experiences onthe campaign trail are, first
and foremost, I'm overjoyed bythe passion of people who want
to step forward and volunteer towork on a grassroots campaign
that is, you know, america anddemocracy in action.
People who want to step forwardand just give of their time,
(49:16):
give of themselves.
And every day more people comeforward, and for different
reasons, for usually for anissue right, and Mr Kennedy
speaks to them on the issue.
So it's been reallyheartwarming and energizing to
work with volunteers, othervolunteers, on this campaign,
and I will tell you.
One really interesting story iswe got a call from or both a
(49:40):
call and an email from a woman,of a, of an autistic child who
wants to get on the campaign andhelp in whatever way he can
help.
Mr Kennedy just loves him as acandidate, and so I sent a door
knocker leaflets to them and andhe goes out on a daily basis
well, I don't know daily, but ona regular basis putting the
(50:03):
door knockers about Mr Kennedyon on people's doorknobs in
neighborhoods.
So it's been, you know it's beena mix.
I there are some days I mightcome home in my way and so it
might say, oh my gosh, you lookbeat.
Know it's been a mix.
There are some days I mightcome home and so it might say,
oh my gosh, you look beat up.
And it's true, because of thedivisiveness out there and how
dug in people are and howunwilling people are to just be
(50:23):
open to new ideas, Sometimes Ican get pretty discouraged about
that.
I can certainly get discouragedwhen people want to talk to me
about you know, the silly issueslike him, you know, with a bear
in the park or the park orworms in his brains and that
kind of thing, the marginalizingdiscussion.
It can get discouraging but forthe most part it's been nothing
more than invigorating and forme personally, knowing that I'm
(50:47):
doing what I can, even if I'mshouting to the ocean, I'm doing
what I can, it feels good atnight going to sleep knowing
that I've'm doing what I can.
And it feels good at nightgoing to sleep knowing that I've
done whatever part I can.
Vince (51:00):
You're making ripples, my friend, and we often use that
metaphor.
You know, ripples make waves,and waves, you know, hit the
beach and that's what we swim inright, and so I commend you for
continuing on in your ripplemaking capacity in the world.
(51:21):
I know that you care greatlyabout making the world a better
place for all of us, and youknow, we all do.
Joe (51:28):
I think we all do you know Vince.
Vince (51:30):
Yeah, but I think you know doing something about it is
again a personal choice.
We do it in our own ways andI'm curious about the fact that
we talk about people beinganti-whatever have you found?
(51:51):
You know?
I don't want to get too muchinto you know family and all
that stuff, but have youexperienced personal attacks at
all, Like Joe, what the hell'swrong with you?
You know from somebody.
You know regardless.
You know people getting in your.
What do you got that bumpersticker on your truck for?
I mean, are you gettingmaligned in any ways?
Joe (52:11):
And how do you deal with that?
I will say this I've had anumber of volunteers say to me
that they don't want to put upyard signs, um, because they're
afraid of the lies, or theydon't want to put a bumper
sticker on because they'reafraid of their car getting
vandalized.
I haven't had anything likethat happen yet, um, yet, um,
and I've had, you know, the yardsigns up for a few months and
(52:32):
um, nothing.
And I, you know, I think's, Ithink it's over played, I think
people are, and I, and I thinkit's sad that we should be
unwilling to wear a t-shirt inpublic.
I will tell you, when I wearthis t-shirt in public, you know
, I go to a grocery store,whatever, mostly I hear positive
things.
Maybe I might see an eyebrow goup, you know, and and distaste
(52:53):
about my t-shirt, t up, you know, in distaste about my t-shirt,
you know, occasionally.
But so be it.
You know it's my right torepresent, but for the most part
, I would say I get a goodresponse because he's a good
person and people who know abouthim, you know, are passionate
about him and it's kind of a funlittle club to be a part of
People on the outside who wantto, you know throw stones,
(53:16):
that's fine, you know know,they're not literally throwing
just another example of stonesmay break my bone, but names
will never hurt.
Vince (53:22):
It's just another example of all the things that we've
been talking about.
Joe (53:25):
Yes, so it's been pretty good.
Actually, I will tell you, forme personally, it's been pretty
good.
It's more just the frustrationof, of of the media, media and
people's awareness and people'swillingness to accept what
they're being fed by what isobviously corporate interest.
If there's one frustration Ihave, it's that I just feel like
(53:46):
come on, people, there's enoughinformation out there.
Let's all wake up, let's allopen our minds a little bit.
That's the thing that I findthe most frustrating.
Vince (53:56):
I was just going to ask you, as we wind this down, what
your advice would be to peoplebetween now and November.
Is it fifth on the election?
Sixth?
Yeah, you know, but I think youjust said it.
Well, open your mind, get yourinformation, vote for who you
feel like voting for.
You know, you hear campaignersout there now saying people
(54:17):
should be free to marry who theywant to marry and love who they
want to love.
I'm all for that.
People should be able to votefor whoever they want to vote
for.
Please, please vote vote.
Joe (54:27):
Be informed when you do.
Try your best to be informedwhen you do.
That's all.
If I were, if I were givingadvice, I would say try your
best to be informed and reallyask yourself is this single
source that I've been using allthese years, is that really the
best way to inform me, and dothey have other interests in
(54:47):
mind when they're feeding methis information?
It's a product.
Information is a product, andif you really want to know I
think there's a saying aboutthat you have to go out and look
.
If you want to see, you have tobe willing to look, and that's
my advice Go, look for theinformation.
Vince (55:09):
Well, is there anything else you'd like to say before we
?
Joe (55:11):
No what I would like to say is this was fun, Vince, and
maybe we should start doing thismore often again.
Vince (55:17):
Well, we'll have 34 episodes under our belt and we
did promise to come back on theair, and so thank you for all of
those who have been with us forthis time.
We appreciate and you will beable to leave comments and
feedback and let us know ifthere's anything else you'd like
us to delve into.
On behalf of Friends in Wonder.
My friend in wonder, Joe, havea great day.
(55:39):
I'm not sure what you're goingto be doing today, but I hope
it's joyful.
Are you going to be campaigningtoday?
Joe (55:44):
Most likely.
Vince (55:44):
there isn't a day goes by that I don't do something, so
yeah, well, get out there andkeep the fires going, joe, and
we will see you all again onFriends in Wonder.
Joe (55:55):
Thank you, Vince.
I appreciate the opportunitytoday.
Thank you, Vince.
Vince (56:00):
You betcha have a great day everyone.
Thanks for joining us.
You can find other podcasts byFriends in Wonder on Spotify and
any of your other podcaststreaming platforms or
friendsinwondercom.
Welcome and thank you for joining another edition of the
Friends in Wonder podcastbrought to you by two lifelong
friends who've been walkingtheir dogs together proverbially
for over 55 years whilewondering about the things that
are meaningful in life.
Joe Luther is an accomplishedattorney with a political
(00:21):
science degree from Wayne StateUniversity, an entrepreneur,
family man and mentor.
Vince Kern has a journalismdegree from Wayne State
University and had a30-year-long career in the media
business as both a journalistand an operations director.
You can find Friends in Wonderpodcast on any of your streaming
(00:43):
platforms, as well asfriendsinwondercom.
Again, thank you for joining us, joe, are you ready?
Joe (00:52):
How can I not be ready to talk to you, Vince?
Vince (00:56):
Well, welcome folks to a special edition of our Friends
in Wonder podcast.
I'm here with my co-host, joeLuther, and we haven't done a
podcast in a while.
For those of you who have beenwith us, you might know that
we've done about 33 podcastsover our adventure into
podcasting.
(01:17):
This is our first video podcast, however, so thank you for
joining us with any warts thatmay come about as a result of
this.
I hope we're presentable.
Joe, you're looking good today.
How the heck are you?
Joe (01:29):
Thank you, vince.
I'm doing quite well and I'mexcited to be doing this kind of
special episode, yeah.
Vince (01:36):
Well, you're all adorned in your Kennedy stuff and that
is one of the main reasons we'redoing this.
Joe, I haven't seen you in awhile.
You've been out in the worldfor quite a while now on the
Kennedy campaign trail here inMichigan and that is a bit of a
different experience for you.
I know you have a degree inpolitical science from Wayne
(02:01):
State University in Detroit.
You're an attorney.
You were a businessman for many, many, many years, entrepreneur
, mentor of many people, andwhen we were younger I remember
sitting in your driveway once Ithink we were about 14 years old
, and you were telling me thatother people, as well as
(02:23):
possibly yourself, hadaspirations to be the President
of the United States andapparently that didn't come to
fruition.
But you are out there promotingthe Kennedy campaign.
Joe, can you talk a little bitabout what you're doing and what
motivated you to do this at theage of?
I think you're 65 now and youcould be doing many, many other
(02:45):
things, like one of thecandidates says.
Joe (02:48):
Well, thank you, vince.
Actually I'm 64.
I'm soon to be 65.
But, yeah, what motivated me todo this first and foremost is
that I believe in the candidateand most of my life, as you said
I was a political science majorI've been fascinated by
politics and because I went tolaw school and became a lawyer I
(03:10):
don't practice anymore I'vealways been very fascinated by
the political process, thelawyers that seem to dominate
the scene in Washington DC,issues, know, issues with the
Supreme Court all of that havefascinated me over the years and
(03:31):
probably, like a lot ofAmericans, I've been frustrated
with the way American politicshas gone over really over my
lifetime, the last 50 years thatI've been paying attention
anyhow, and you know, here'sfinally a candidate.
In my opinion, and I think ifpeople take time to get to know
him and probably everybody'sopinion, who really knows him is
somebody who's really all aboutintegrity and about service and
(03:53):
about being in politics for theright reasons.
Whether you agree 100% witheverything that he stands for,
what he does stand for is a fulland transparent discussion
about the issues and when you dothat, you recognize that this
is a very sincere, good-heartedperson.
(04:13):
And when he decided to go inthe race.
I had already been reallyfamiliar with his life, and it
was in the wake of COVID.
He had written the real AnthonyFauci book, which you know I
read cover to cover and I wasall in when he decided that he
(04:35):
wanted to be part of this.
I made a personal commitmentthat if he's going to really
risk everything, risk his career, risk literally his life by
doing this, the least I can doas a 64-year-old man is
everything I can to help him getthere.
So that was my motivation.
That's why now I'm a volunteerhere in Michigan.
Vince (04:59):
And how long have you been doing this, and tell me a
little bit about what being avolunteer here in Michigan means
for you.
What do you do?
How much time does it take?
We're going to talk a littlebit about the experience out
there in the field in a while,but just for those who have
never been on a campaign before,let's talk about your role,
like I said, how long you'vebeen doing it, what you do.
Joe (05:19):
Well, first thing that people don't really understand.
Even some of the volunteersthat work in our campaign don't
understand.
This is a grassroots campaign.
There's no big money or oiledmachine behind what we're doing,
so it's volunteers, all handson deck.
I don't officially work for theKennedy campaign.
(05:40):
In fact, anything I'm saying onthis podcast is not official or
is in no way reflective ofanything to do with the campaign
.
In fact, anything I'm saying onthis podcast is not official or
is in no way reflective ofanything to do with the campaign
.
It's just my observations as avolunteer, and literally most of
us on the campaign arevolunteers.
I'm a volunteer, excuse me, incharge of Southeastern Michigan,
(06:03):
you know, kind of coordinatingvolunteers in Southeastern
Michigan.
We have other coordinators inMacomb and Wayne County and that
kind of thing.
But I've been in it sincereally January working with the
campaign and going back all theway a year ago to July 4th, my
wife and I, sonia, we sponsoreda parade.
(06:27):
Well, we didn't sponsor theparade, but we sponsored being
in the parade on behalf of MrKennedy.
So it's been over a year thatI've been kind of campaigning on
his behalf and really sinceFebruary that I've been working
real hard and now we're in.
You know, here it is the end ofAugust or middle of August and
(06:50):
we're really in the campaignearnest now and it's been
interesting, it's been fun, it'sbeen interesting, it's been
energizing.
Vince (07:00):
It's been frustrating.
It's been a lot of things.
It's been interesting to watchthis campaign change.
Obviously we're in a historiccampaign with the shift from
Biden to Harris and all of thethings that have happened.
And you know I wonder what itwas like out there in the field.
And tell me about the differenttypes of things you're doing in
the field.
And you know people seem to bepretty charged up before Biden
(07:23):
dropped out.
Obviously, between Trump andBiden, a lot of divisiveness out
there.
I recall when we were younger,you know there were lawn signs
everywhere.
People openly spoke aboutthings, issues, and this
divisiveness has got to be outthere in a bigger way than you
know me sitting at home andwatching all this through my
(07:45):
screens and and not really beingout there.
So what's it like?
Joe (07:51):
Yeah, you know that's a.
You know it's a great question,vince, and that's really a big
part of what I would love to getpeople to understand in this
podcast is is that I had neverlike.
Yeah, we, everybody keeps trackof current events in their own
way, through TV, through newsmedia, whatever it is but I'd
(08:11):
never really worked like this ona campaign, on the streets,
interacting with others, and sosome of the things that we've
done, like from the beginning,when I joined the campaign, it
was all about getting signaturesfor them to get them on the
ballot, and the first couple ofmonths that was all we were
doing.
So I was standing out in frontof farmers markets or post
offices or whatever and justinterjecting with the public,
(08:35):
asking them if they're willingto, you know, sign a petition to
get somebody on the ballot.
And and that's a fascinatingprocess in and of itself because
you know we're not a lot oftimes I would say, listen, I'm
not asking you to vote for him,I'm just asking you to sign for
his right to be on the ballot,and you would think most people
would be okay with just anybodybeing on the ballot, as long as
(08:57):
he's qualified.
Certainly, mr Kennedy is anattorney for 40 years, got the
Kennedy family name behind him.
If you know anything about him,he's probably more qualified
than the other two candidates,but that's opinion speaking.
But he's certainly qualified tobe on the ballot.
And people just you know, manypeople just didn't want any part
(09:18):
of that and I was at first kindof shocked by that because you
would think, right, no matterwhat your political leaning is,
that you'd be okay with therebeing, you know, more people on
the ballot and more discussionabout issues.
But I noticed that early on andI realized, wow, we are really
a divided nation and we're dugin to believing that our side is
(09:39):
right and anything else is bad.
It's not good to talk toanybody else, they just
represent something that is initself bad.
And it was shocking for me atfirst dealing with that.
You know, I think there's ameme out there that it was one
of my favorites.
It's a little cartoon and I hadit on my refrigerator for a
(10:02):
long time and it's a king up inthe castle looking down at the
subjects, I guess you would callthem, and there's just this
swarm of mob of people and theyhave torches on one side and
pitchforks on the other side andthe king says no, no, you don't
have to defeat them, you justhave to convince the people with
(10:23):
the pitchforks that the peoplewith the torches want to take
away their pitchforks.
And that's.
That's the mean.
And if you think about it,that's really what's going on in
America is, is everybodybelieves that they're right and
that the other side is trying totake something away from them.
And you bring in an independentcandidate and people just, I
(10:44):
can tell you they literallyexplode.
They don't know what to do withit and I've had some real
interesting reactions.
Some have been good and I gotto tell you most people are good
, but there's a lot ofdivisiveness out there and you
mentioned the you know the lawnsigns.
Yeah, people don't even reallywant to talk about it because
(11:09):
they're just building up whatthey believe is right inside of
them and not wanting to go outand express ideas with others
about it.
Some people even falselybelieve that you know they'll be
attacked if they express ideas.
I mean, I hope it's false.
I don't think that it's as badas people make it, but what we
(11:31):
have is a bunch of suppressedpeople holding in their opinions
and not wanting to talk toothers about ideas, and I think
that's what's so invigoratingabout Mr Kennedy as a candidate
is that he doesn't want to talknegative about the other people.
He just wants to talk about thereal issues and all the other
(11:53):
stuff, all the other arguing hecalls the jingly keys.
That makes people look in thatdirection and not talk about the
real issues, and that's whatmakes me so excited to be part
of.
This is I think it's historicin the last several decades in
that we're really finallytalking about issues again.
Vince (12:16):
Yeah, what do you think that the reason people feel
unable to express their opinion?
You know, to me this goes tothe reason people feel unable to
express their opinion.
You know, to me this goes to.
When you talk about the kingand the castle, you know, you
might as well put a mediacorporation, the media, up there
(12:38):
on the balcony, because itseems like the media is
facilitating the divisivenessWe've got plenty of examples of.
When you talk about peoplebeing afraid that you know
they'll be attacked, there's newways to attack people
censorship, silencing theiropinions.
You know all of that sort ofthing.
What do you attest to this?
(12:59):
You know this divisiveness, Imean, I a few things, but is
that, is that what you're seeingout there in the field?
Joe (13:05):
well, I think yeah you, you kind of touched on it.
So right, and that's a goodpoint.
The meme shows a king lookingdown at his subjects.
But who is the king and who is,you know, responsible for
trying to get the torches andthe pitchforks against each
other?
And you know, a lot of peoplethink that there is, like this,
cabal or whatever, and I guessit depends on how you define
cabal.
(13:27):
But what I think Mr Kennedytalks about, and what I believe
is true, is that it's reallycorporate America.
And you know that's a big, youknow phrase, corporate America.
Obviously there's a lot of goodcorporations out there, a lot
of people working incorporations that are good
people, but corporate interestshave really infiltrated the way
(13:49):
everything works in societytoday and people don't really
understand.
And certainly that's true inthe media.
And you know, the old sayingthat I think became popular over
the last five years is thatit's much easier to fool
somebody than to convince themthey've been fooled.
People, you know, watch theirnews sources and they trust
(14:10):
their news sources, but theydon't really recognize sometimes
that those news sources arereally corporate entities, that,
you know, money drives theirprofit line, money drives their
profit line, and so if we allknow that, then we should also
(14:31):
know that maybe the informationcoming from those corporate
interests might be biased, andcertainly people kind of
fighting with each other doesn'tallow you to look up at the
castle and say, okay, what'sreally going on here, like who's
really running this show?
Is it the government anymore oris it corporate interests?
And those are the issues thatthe king in the castle doesn't
(14:54):
want anyone talking about.
They would prefer everyone justbe at each other's throats.
Vince (14:59):
You know, it's interesting that you
characterize it that way.
We were in the green roomtalking a little bit before this
.
We didn't do a ton of prep workfor this because this is really
an organic discussion.
But you know, over my 30 yearsof being in the media I saw it
change quite drastically and sawinformation consumer habits
(15:22):
change very drastically with theinternet and social media
coming into play.
And now we're well into that.
I mean we're almost, you knowalmost a few years.
It'll be 20 years of FaceTimeand Facebook and Twitter and
that's what things habitsdevelop among consumers.
Now you were talking about someof the generational things that
(15:45):
you saw between people our ageconsuming information and how
they tend to.
You know from experience.
Think that we know everythingor that we're well prepared.
Five years ago I was reallyconcerned about the younger
generation's ability to consumeinformation.
(16:05):
My experience tells me that'squite the opposite, that they're
very savvy and adept.
But you've seen a lot of thatout in the field from being
around thousands of people.
Can you speak to that a littlebit?
Joe (16:18):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up and it's because what I
didn't express earlier in myactivities as a volunteer
coordinator is I've been on thestreets, like I've been to the
Tiger Stadium or Comerica Parkopening day, going out amongst
the crowds, you know, justasking for signatures, and I've
(16:41):
been to farmer's markets and 4thof July parades and um, all
sorts of events in thesummertime around here.
I was at one last night and I'mtalking to people and there
there isn't a more raw way tointeract with complete strangers
than to talk really aboutpolitics and it's and it's
fascinating to me.
You know, I, I know we're notsupposed to profile To me, you
(17:03):
know, I know we're not supposedto profile, but what I've
observed in general is that theolder you get with the people
you talk to like you know ourage, and older the boomers, the
more sure of themselves they areabout their opinions of things.
Maybe that comes with old age.
You just think that you know itall and you know I, I like in
(17:27):
the there's that phrase thateveryone is familiar.
Um, you are what you eat.
Um, everyone understands thatif you eat a bunch of cake,
you're going to become somethingthat exemplifies someone who
eats a bunch of cake, uh.
If you eat vegetables, uh, youknow, same same.
But the same is true withinformation you are what you eat
when it comes to information,and a lot of us, I think that
(17:51):
are older, have gotten very setin our ways, in how we consume
information.
And a lot of older people, youknow, haven't taken the time to
learn how to find alternateinformation on the internet,
whereas the younger generationhas figured that out and sifting
through the information that'scoming at us is very difficult,
(18:12):
and I see that on the street,because people are much more dug
in as they're older and theydon't really want to talk and
they're pretty sure that anyidea that you have is not a good
one.
And the younger you go, themore open they are to talk.
And the younger generation, inmy opinion, is extremely
(18:32):
well-informed.
And again, this is generalizing.
There's certainly indoctrinatedpeople and I don't want to
sound like I know it all becauseI don't.
I know that I don't know it all,but you can tell, humans can
tell when somebody is talking tosomeone who wants to exchange
ideas versus somebody who thinksthey they're closed-minded,
(18:53):
they're full, they don't wantanything more.
And by far, by far, the youngergeneration is open to new ideas
and the older generation hasbeen.
You know ideas and the oldergeneration has been, you know,
pretty much the hardest to talkto and I find that I find that
sad.
I find it sad that you know, aswe get older we can't learn new
tricks, that we can't be moreopen and again, I am saying this
(19:17):
as a generalization, there'splenty of us, most of the
volunteers on this campaign areolder, but I'm just profiling in
general that and that you know,by the way, that actually
tracks with the polling, and forMr Kennedy especially, is that
the younger generation really,really loves him.
The older generation eitherdoesn't know about him or
believes the misinformation outthere about him.
Vince (19:41):
Yeah, I want to talk about that misinformation in a
little bit about him.
Yeah, I want to talk about thatmisinformation in a little bit.
You know, I have an observationand an opinion about the more
openness of the youngergeneration and I think it really
boils down to habitual newssourcing and older people.
You know, when we were younger,there were three television
(20:02):
networks, three newscasts ABC,nbc, cbs and you had people like
Cronkite and Brinkley andpresidential reporters like Sam
Donaldson who were always, youknow yeah, and they were asking,
you know, these people wereasking a lot of tough questions
and that instilled a sense oftrust in these networks.
(20:31):
And that instilled a sense oftrust in these networks.
Now that was, you know, 40, 50years ago.
And obviously the impact of theinternet and social media has
changed and especially thecorporate media ownership for, I
think, the younger generation.
But for older people we tend toI call it drinking the Kool-Aid
, everybody calls it drinkingthe Kool-Aid, but I think that
(20:53):
we tend to do that as we'reolder because we built up a
trust for these sources andpeople don't realize how these
sources have changed.
They give them an infiniteamount of trust without noticing
all the other things that areshifting the big picture of the
media complex, and I think thatthe younger generation uses
(21:16):
tools like Substack, othercontent delivery sources, and
they don't.
They're not tied toinstitutional media, they're
tied to more of the truth andwhat resonates them with where
older people it's set in my way,set in my way get off my lawn.
I watch ABC news or I watch Foxnews or I watch CNN news and I
(21:39):
don't watch anything elsebecause it just reinforces my
opinion.
Now, personally, I watcheverything I can, because I
really want to see what's beingsaid all over the place, and
I've seen just a gross amount ofmisinformation about all of the
candidates, quite frankly,whether it's Trump or Biden or
(22:01):
Harris or Vance or Kennedy.
And I'm fascinated by watchingseveral of the Kennedy videos
where people ask him pointedquestions about other
politicians and he basicallysays I don't want to talk about
them.
This is this is not about this.
(22:36):
Yeah, it's about the issues,and you know, some of the things
that I've learned in watchingthis campaign is not just how
the media or campaigns wantthings to be divisive, but you
know the political powerssituation where, literally, they
decided that, no matter who wonin that state, all of the
delegates would go to Biden, sohe doesn't even have a chance
(22:59):
there.
I remember reading about that,but I guess I'm layering a bunch
of questions on it once on youhere.
Joe (23:06):
Actually, there have been a number of things I should have
been taking notes, a number ofthings I wanted to comment on
there.
First of all, one thing I wantto go back to is what you were
saying about the media andpeople's consumption habits of
the media, and one of the thingsthat I feel empowered, or not
empowered, one of the thingsthat I feel required to say is
(23:28):
that, you know, really it comesdown to individual
responsibility with the news andwhat you're consuming.
And today I'm just fascinatedby people who are willing to
accept all of their newsinformation from one source like
MSNBC, news information fromone source like MSNBC,
(23:54):
especially MSNBC or Fox, becausethey know when they're logging
on that they're going to asource that is slanted in their
direction, and there's a phrasefor that, now called echo
chambers, and people arewillingly now going into their
own echo chambers.
And of course, the electronicmedia, the corporate media, is
capitalizing on that becausethey want people staying on
(24:16):
their platform.
So you don't piss off yourviewer by talking about other
ideas, and so you just give themmore of what they want to hear.
So they go and they just theybathe in the same information
over and over again and then,when that stuff becomes a little
divisive, they just start tohave more and more contempt for
(24:40):
the other side and more and morebelief in what it is they're
consuming.
And that's that you are whatyou consume idea.
But I think it's.
You know.
We can point to the corporateinterests and say look at how
evil they are what they're doing.
But we have, we also have tolook at ourselves and and ask is
this the best way to beinformed, to just go
(25:04):
deliberately to these sourcesthat provide what you want to
hear, and are we able tooccasionally brush our teeth
with our left hand instead ofalways with the right hand?
Are we able to, you know, workboth sides of our brains and
hear, not just change from MSNBCand go to Fox, because those
(25:24):
are both literally corporateinterests, but to get out of
that cycle altogether and lookdeeper, like so many of the
people who I talk to at our ageand older about Mr Kennedy.
They don't.
They haven't even listened tohim speak on issues themselves.
They're just believing whatother people have told them to
(25:45):
believe about them.
And those who are open-mindedand recognize that that's the
case tend to say yeah, that'strue, I really haven't looked
myself, and so there's anindividual responsibility that I
think I wanted.
You know you mentioned that andI wanted to get that out, but
I'm sorry, what was the lastpart of your question?
Vince (26:06):
Well, I was.
You know.
Joe (26:07):
I was thinking about this environment of an alternative
candidate trying to you know geton the ballot and it's all part
of the corporate interest,because you know you can say
Republican or Democrat, but ifwe fundamentally understand that
corporations and this is whatMr Kennedy talks about and why
nobody wants a microphone infront of his voice, because he
(26:31):
does it far more articulatelythan me but what he calls
attention to is that corporateinterests have so permeated the
way our government runs now thatit's really a capture.
They call it a corporatecapture and you know it's true
in the regulatory agencies.
We see it all the time, becausethose people who used to run
(26:53):
the big, you know agriculturalfirms are running the Food and
Drug Administration or theDepartment of Agriculture or
whatever it is, and the same istrue throughout all of
government, and it's certainlythe same is true.
The most important thing forpeople who want to control power
is who's going to becomepresident of the United States.
(27:14):
So for sure, the Democrat andRepublican Party has billions of
dollars in their coffers andthose dollars don't come without
attachment.
It's plain and simple.
And that's why Mr Kennedy'scampaign is all about grassroots
and he couldn't be moreindependent than any other
(27:35):
campaigner or any othercandidate out there, because he
is, by virtue, unattached to anycorporate interest, by
literally unattached to anycorporate interest, and so you
know you talk about the processof how Kamala Harris, Kamala
Harris has become the candidateand what they're doing with the
(27:56):
delegate votes.
I don't really keep track ofthat, but it certainly isn't
what they're preaching, and thatis standing up for democracy,
because democracy is about, youknow, a republic is about
letting the people speak throughtheir votes, and certainly, if
you're really concerned aboutempowering the people with their
(28:18):
votes, you would want as manycandidates as possible talking
about as many ideas as possible,and anytime you're on the side
of somebody who wants to silenceanother, you really should take
a long hard look at why that is.
Why are you trying to silencethe ideas of somebody else?
(28:38):
If it's not about, you know,hurting somebody else, if it's
not about endangering the public, why aren't we willing to just
talk about ideas?
Vince (28:50):
Yeah, that's really the essence of a grassroots campaign
.
Since you and I have been alive, there have been few
alternative candidates on theballot and, uh, you know, I
(29:12):
think that's what's honorable tome about what you're doing is
that you're out there, puttingyourself out there every day,
and pardon me for saying this,but most people don't think that
kennedy has a chance in hell towin.
So I think you know there'sstill this idea, though that you
(29:32):
know is it is it.
Is it as much about the processfor you and the fairness of it
as the the result?
Or do you think that he has aviable chance in this election?
Do you think it might be downthe road in another election?
Joe (29:46):
Well, here's the thing, vince, If I were only in it
because I thought he could win,that just kind of cements the
whole idea of a two-party system, and I've argued since.
I remember literally in eighthgrade, when Richard Nixon was
running for president.
I remember arguing with a kidin class that what's wrong with
(30:07):
America is the two-party system.
We need to have at least athree-party system, because when
it's one or the other, you'reencouraging this pitchfork and
torches kind of a concept andthen you stop talking about the
real issues and so bringing inan independent candidate.
(30:28):
What I love about beinginvolved in this is it goes back
to something I've believedsince I was a little kid and
he's such a worthy candidate isthat we're finally now starting
to talk about real issues.
Now can he win?
I don't know.
People didn't think Trump couldwin in 2016.
They gave him no chance andbetween now and the election, a
(30:51):
lot of things can happen.
Certainly, they're doing theirdarndest to not make him
relevant by not allowing him todebate.
Why wouldn't they allow him todebate?
What are they afraid of?
But the reason I'm in it isbecause it's raising the level
of conversation.
The more Mr Kennedy stays in itand I know he's in it till the
(31:12):
end, and I'm going to be in ittill the end because it's good
for America.
Talking about a third partycandidate, or talking about the
real issues that a grassrootsthird party candidate brings to
the discussion, is somethingthat I passionately believe in,
and I will keep pushing for aslong as I can, because the
(31:37):
alternative is just the same old.
The same old, you know, talkingabout the really the social
issues and not the real issues.
The real issues are, you know,the real health of America, the
real quality of our food, what'sreally behind the wars that
we're involved in?
Is it about money or is itabout really fundamental issues
(32:01):
to our nation?
Talking about, you know, thegender issue?
Yeah, those are importantissues, but it's something that
just polarizes people and getsthem kind of fighting at each
other instead of talking aboutwhat's really important to you.
Can you afford a house?
Is the younger generation.
(32:22):
Maybe that's one of the reasonswhy they're looking for
alternative information, as theyknow that they're doomed if we
continue on the same path thatwe're on.
And so Mr Kennedy raises thatlevel of discussion, and that's
really what, you know, thecorporate lords who are standing
up in the castle don't want.
Vince (32:41):
Yeah, true enough.
You know, just to insertsomething here.
When we talk about accessinginformation, you'll be able to
see a lot of his ideas andcomments on Instagram.
He's got a great Instagramaccount and he promotes and he
(33:01):
speaks there openly about allkinds of things.
He's been labeled ever since hejoined the race.
I remember him going in frontof the Senate committee back, I
want to say, last fall and, andyou know, even there he was
attacked for all kinds of stuff.
You know being a conspiracytheorist, you know the
(33:25):
anti-vaxxer, the whole ball ofwax, but people don't understand
what an impact he's had on theenvironmental front and the
corporate lawsuits that he's,the things that he's done to
really help the people in hiscareer.
And you know this businessabout.
You know eating a dog and thebear it's-.
(33:47):
Worming his brain and all thatkind of thing Worming his brain
and the bear thing.
Joe (33:51):
Aaron Rodgers is his vice president.
Yeah, and there's.
There's so much about Aaron.
Vince (33:55):
Rodgers.
There's so much out there aboutall of these candidates, now it
seems like that's all we'regetting.
Are these stories that areintended to besmirch character,
to assassinate character and tokeep people from you know?
Oh well, if you speak outagainst this guy, then you're.
The common word now is weird.
Joe (34:18):
It's one liner gotchas that people and again this comes
back to personal responsibilitypeople accept this idea.
Well, I'm not interested inKennedy.
His own family hates him.
Well, really is that true inKennedy?
His own family hates him Well,really is that true?
Have you spoken to his wholefamily?
He's got 100 family members.
Maybe a few of them who arepart of the Democratic National
(34:45):
Party don't like that.
He's doing what he's doing.
But I bet you they don't hatehim.
But accepting a pejorative likehe's an anti-vaxxer, he's not an
anti-vaxxer.
He's had all the vaccines.
I've had all the vaccines.
He is about safe vaccines andwhat is wrong with that?
What's wrong with talking aboutthe actual content of a vaccine
?
Why are people afraid to talkabout that instead of just
(35:06):
calling a name and sayingsomething?
You know and this idea of wormin his brain, so like, really,
are you honestly believing thatthis candidate that is garnering
all this attention has somesort of a worm in his brain,
like it's?
It's?
It's childish to think thatthese things can actually be
considered as a truth.
(35:27):
Um, but what I will say is, ifpeople do want to learn more
about him, kennedy24.com, justgo to kennedy24.com.
There's a video segment you canclick on it.
It's divided by issue.
Just listen for yourself.
Listen for yourself.
All us older people out therewho have grandchildren who love
(35:50):
this guy.
Go find out.
Why are your grandchildreninterested in him?
Go find out for yourself.
He's a true Kennedy.
His father and uncle couldn'tbe more proud of him.
Those are the family membersthat count, and I guarantee you
that they are looking down andsmiling at this man of integrity
doing what he's doing.
Vince (36:11):
Yeah, and you know another point I would put on.
That is that when people hespeaks to these things that
people are saying to him, heopenly answers the questions
that are brought forth to him.
He talks about the brain wormthing.
He talks about why his voice isthe way it is.
(36:31):
He talks about what happenedwith the bear.
I mean, they're crazy storiesbut let's face it, we've all got
crazy stories in our closet,we've all done crazy things and
he's willing to talk about it.
And I think you know,regardless of how I wind up
voting, I think that is a signof good character.
Joe (36:50):
He's not dishonest, he's just got his own life and we all
do so what about If all you'rehearing about somebody is all
the negative, but you noticethat the same people who are
smearing the negatives won't puta microphone in front of his
face and let him speak forhimself?
(37:10):
Like that should raise somealarms and say what is going on
here?
Why are these people trying sodesperately to discredit this
guy and not give him amicrophone and speak for himself
?
You know, again, it's personalresponsibility.
You have to ask yourself what'sreally going on here.
Vince (37:28):
It's a personal responsibility.
You have to ask yourself what'sreally going on here.
Well, that's what I was justgoing to get to.
That in a sense, because now,with this transition from, I
mean, obviously one of the hitsagainst Biden was that you know,
to use the quotes his campaignin a basement and his
unavailability to the press, andnow we have a new Democratic
presidential candidate who, asof today, hasn't done an
(37:52):
interview with the press inwhatever 21 days or however many
days.
It is no microphone in front ofher other than a teleprompter.
And you know, you ask thequestion what's really going on
here?
What is the fear of putting amicrophone in front of?
So why does a campaign how do Isay this?
(38:13):
How does a campaign run acampaign without letting their
candidate speak to reporters?
And why are they keepingKennedy away from the microphone
on the debate stage?
Joe (38:26):
You know, it's just I think those are rhetorical questions,
vince, but I think you're.
You're highlighting the veryissue and I think if you put the
three of them on the stagetogether, um, you'll see.
Mr kennedy is sincere like he.
He's.
He doesn't read from ateleprompter everything,
everything.
He's a brilliant man.
(38:47):
This man brought a class actionlawsuit against Monsanto.
That is really what'sresponsible for calling
attention to glyphosate andRoundup and the poison that it
puts in our body when we eatfood that has been sprayed with
that toxin.
(39:08):
You know you can't lead alawsuit against a mega
corporation like that and not bereally smart.
This is a smart man.
In every issue that he speaksabout and he speaks about pretty
much all of them I find myselflistening and saying, oh my God,
that makes so much sense.
Yes on Ukraine.
Yes, makes so much sense.
Yes On Ukraine.
(39:29):
Yes On the Gaza strip.
Yes On you know our food.
Yes On what we need to do aboutour health.
Everything that he talks aboutis sincere, from his heart,
authentic and it's not scripted.
And the other two candidates,you can tell when they're
speaking.
Maybe Mr Trump likes to go offscript a little bit, but it's
(39:50):
some of the same.
You'll never believe how greatit is, it's the biggest, it's
the best.
That may be off script, buthe's still using talking points.
Mr Kennedy is all aboutspeaking about the issues from
his heart, because heunderstands them from his heart.
Kamala Harris I don't even knowyet.
It'll be interesting to seewhat she has to say.
(40:12):
They're they're certainlygrooming her, so when she comes
out, I guess she'll be aspolished as they can hope for.
Yeah, that's me talkingnegative about the other guys.
I will tell you I don't like todo it either.
Um, all I have to say is putall three of them on stage and
you decide who the most sincereis.
Vince (40:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's you know something.
Now, what about the effort?
Is there still an effort to gethim on into the debates, or is
that pretty much?
I?
Joe (40:39):
mean, of course that's the the and you say, you know, does
he have a chance to win?
That's his chance to win andthe other side knows it and the
corporate overlords know that.
His chance to win is getting onstage with those other two
candidates and when he does itwon't be close Like the other
two are going to finish.
You know distant seconds andthirds, but I guarantee you, you
(41:05):
put a microphone in front ofhim, in front of the people, and
they're going to all startwondering why on earth haven't
we heard more about this guysooner?
Vince (41:28):
no-transcript debate stream on his live stream, right
?
So he answered the samequestions that were put to the
other candidates and I mean Ithink to me that's fascinating.
He should be on the stage.
There's no question about it.
Joe (41:48):
It's ridiculous that he had to do what he did, but he did
it with a moderator and it wasin front of a live audience and
it was on a stage and he had alarge screen.
I don't know those probably alot of people that don't know
what happened but he had a largescreen TV with, you know, the
CNN live feed in the backgroundand it became a longer debate
(42:10):
than the actual one because whathe did is they paused after the
question between the two.
They would hit pause and thenthe moderator would ask Mr
Kennedy and he would cut him offafter the same amount of time.
And it was interesting.
They literally were cutting himoff or bringing him back to a
point.
The moderator I forget his name,he's somebody who's been on the
(42:33):
corporate media in the past butprobably couldn't because he
was speaking out too much, but Iforget his name.
But he was very good and it wasinteresting and it was probably
.
If it happens again, it'sprobably something that people
should try to find.
I think over 10 million peopletuned in live to watch it.
So it speaks volumes how wellMr Kennedy is polling and how
(42:58):
much people really want to hearabout the issues from people who
aren't scripted.
Vince (43:04):
And hopefully the next debate will.
He will be live, and if he'snot, I'm sure he'll be doing
something exciting again.
Joe (43:11):
Just don't understand why people wouldn't revolt if he, if
he isn't on, you know how manyballots?
Vince (43:17):
do you know how many ballots he's on currently?
Joe (43:20):
uh, last I heard there.
I mean there's official andthen there's um the, the states
where he's got enough signaturesor has jumped through the hoops
that are necessary.
So that's part of the problemwith becoming an independent
candidate is that there are alot of I don where he has done
(43:42):
what he's needed to do tocertify.
Some states are pushing back.
(44:09):
Obviously it's political tokind of upset the apple cart of
how corporate and governmentcooperation is operating right
now.
So they don't want him on theballots, but he's officially on
18 ballots.
I think he's got enoughsignatures on 25 more.
So 43 states that he'sofficially got enough and he's
(44:34):
put in for certification andjust waiting for the states to
certify him.
He swears this is the lawyer inhim, but he swears that he'll
be on all 50 states before theelection.
Let's hope that he will,because you really can't afford
not to be on all of them.
Vince (44:52):
But even 43 is pretty good ford not to be on all of
them, but, um, even 43 is prettygood, yeah.
Well, one comment about that isif you know the, the states are
manipulating in such a way tokeep him off the ballot.
That just is a small example,even though it's a very big
thing, of what is being done atthe higher levels to influence
(45:14):
the republican and Democraticvotes.
Joe (45:18):
Yeah, and what's wrong with America, like we always talk
about Ross Perot?
Ross Perot didn't have thisproblem, but you know he was a
billionaire who was financinghis own campaign, and so he had
a lot of resources to do what heneeded to do.
But even back then in the 90s todo, but even back then in the
90s, there was no real idea ofkeeping him off the ballot, like
(45:44):
making it difficult for him toget on the ballot.
And here we are in Americatoday, and everybody knows it.
Everybody knows that he'shaving difficulty getting on the
ballot.
Everybody knows that he'shaving difficulty getting a
microphone in front of him.
People know this, but they'reaccepting it.
And this is.
And then and then, the sametime, they're talking about
saving democracy.
Well, how in God's name are we?
What is the democracy thatwe're saving, if an independent
(46:07):
candidate named Robert KennedyJr, who's been a lawyer fighting
corporate interests for 40years, cannot get on the ballot
in the United States of America?
What is wrong with our systemtoday?
What is wrong with our system?
People have to ask that andagain, it's personal
responsibility.
We see it happening andunfolding in front of our eyes
(46:29):
and yet we just kind of shrugour shoulders and accept it as
the new normal.
Well, it shouldn't be a normal.
We should be able to havesomebody named Robert Kennedy Jr
on the ballot in every state.
What are we afraid of?
Vince (46:44):
We afraid of it winning.
Joe (46:46):
I guess maybe that's what we're afraid of.
Vince (46:49):
You know, joe, for over 55 years, you and I have had a
lot of deep discussions aboutwondering, as we are friends, in
wonder about many things, and Ilove your passion, I honor your
passion, I honor your mission.
We haven't had a lot of time,you know, to talk about some of
the experiences.
I really, as we wind this down,I'd love to hear about some of
(47:14):
your firsthand stories that youmight have from from doing all
this, whether humorous or sad,or or a lot of it, you know, I
will tell you.
Joe (47:26):
So one of the funny stories that I like to tell people is
that, you know, when I was outpetitioning for signatures, it
be, you know, it's like anything, you try to find the
low-hanging fruit right.
You want to go to a place whereyou think you're going to get
the most people willing to sign.
So you might go to a.
Like, if there was a medicalfreedom rally, you'd probably
(47:47):
want to go to that and there'dbe a lot of people that would
want to sign for mr kennedy.
Um, if you went to someplacewhere they're more likely to be,
you know, people that are areare for somebody else, it might
be different.
Well, I, I would go to farmer'smarkets and, you know,
especially early on, and itwould be quite a cross section
of of America.
I got, I got to the point whereI started to become afraid.
(48:10):
Again, this is a little bit ofprofiling, but I became a little
bit afraid of older women,especially Caucasian older women
.
They just seemed to be the kindthat would snap at me, you know
, the most vigorously.
And it actually got to thepoint where you know, because I
would go out quite a bit on thestreets looking for signatures,
(48:33):
signatures.
I almost cowered a little bitwhen I saw them coming like, oh,
these people, they, they,they're gonna bark at me.
Um, that that's kind of a uh,you know a funny story.
Um, you wouldn't expect that,right, you would expect them to
be kind of the sweetest, butwhen it comes to politics
they're really dug in on theirpositions.
Um, but, um, what I?
What I found all right.
(48:54):
So my personal experiences onthe campaign trail are, first
and foremost, I'm overjoyed bythe passion of people who want
to step forward and volunteer towork on a grassroots campaign
that is, you know, america anddemocracy in action.
People who want to step forwardand just give of their time,
(49:16):
give of themselves.
And every day more people comeforward, and for different
reasons, for usually for anissue right, and Mr Kennedy
speaks to them on the issue.
So it's been reallyheartwarming and energizing to
work with volunteers, othervolunteers, on this campaign,
and I will tell you.
One really interesting story iswe got a call from or both a
(49:40):
call and an email from a woman,of a, of an autistic child who
wants to get on the campaign andhelp in whatever way he can
help.
Mr Kennedy just loves him as acandidate, and so I sent a door
knocker leaflets to them and andhe goes out on a daily basis
well, I don't know daily, but ona regular basis putting the
(50:03):
door knockers about Mr Kennedyon on people's doorknobs in
neighborhoods.
So it's been, you know it's beena mix.
I there are some days I mightcome home in my way and so it
might say, oh my gosh, you lookbeat.
Know it's been a mix.
There are some days I mightcome home and so it might say,
oh my gosh, you look beat up.
And it's true, because of thedivisiveness out there and how
dug in people are and howunwilling people are to just be
(50:23):
open to new ideas, Sometimes Ican get pretty discouraged about
that.
I can certainly get discouragedwhen people want to talk to me
about you know, the silly issueslike him, you know, with a bear
in the park or the park orworms in his brains and that
kind of thing, the marginalizingdiscussion.
It can get discouraging but forthe most part it's been nothing
more than invigorating and forme personally, knowing that I'm
(50:47):
doing what I can, even if I'mshouting to the ocean, I'm doing
what I can, it feels good atnight going to sleep knowing
that I've'm doing what I can.
And it feels good at nightgoing to sleep knowing that I've
done whatever part I can.
Vince (51:00):
You're making ripples, my friend, and we often use that
metaphor.
You know, ripples make waves,and waves, you know, hit the
beach and that's what we swim inright, and so I commend you for
continuing on in your ripplemaking capacity in the world.
(51:21):
I know that you care greatlyabout making the world a better
place for all of us, and youknow, we all do.
Joe (51:28):
I think we all do you know Vince.
Vince (51:30):
Yeah, but I think you know doing something about it is
again a personal choice.
We do it in our own ways andI'm curious about the fact that
we talk about people beinganti-whatever have you found?
(51:51):
You know?
I don't want to get too muchinto you know family and all
that stuff, but have youexperienced personal attacks at
all, Like Joe, what the hell'swrong with you?
You know from somebody.
You know regardless.
You know people getting in your.
What do you got that bumpersticker on your truck for?
I mean, are you gettingmaligned in any ways?
Joe (52:11):
And how do you deal with that?
I will say this I've had anumber of volunteers say to me
that they don't want to put upyard signs, um, because they're
afraid of the lies, or theydon't want to put a bumper
sticker on because they'reafraid of their car getting
vandalized.
I haven't had anything likethat happen yet, um, yet, um,
and I've had, you know, the yardsigns up for a few months and
(52:32):
um, nothing.
And I, you know, I think's, Ithink it's over played, I think
people are, and I, and I thinkit's sad that we should be
unwilling to wear a t-shirt inpublic.
I will tell you, when I wearthis t-shirt in public, you know
, I go to a grocery store,whatever, mostly I hear positive
things.
Maybe I might see an eyebrow goup, you know, and and distaste
(52:53):
about my t-shirt, t up, you know, in distaste about my t-shirt,
you know, occasionally.
But so be it.
You know it's my right torepresent, but for the most part
, I would say I get a goodresponse because he's a good
person and people who know abouthim, you know, are passionate
about him and it's kind of a funlittle club to be a part of
People on the outside who wantto, you know throw stones,
(53:16):
that's fine, you know know,they're not literally throwing
just another example of stonesmay break my bone, but names
will never hurt.
Vince (53:22):
It's just another example of all the things that we've
been talking about.
Joe (53:25):
Yes, so it's been pretty good.
Actually, I will tell you, forme personally, it's been pretty
good.
It's more just the frustrationof, of of the media, media and
people's awareness and people'swillingness to accept what
they're being fed by what isobviously corporate interest.
If there's one frustration Ihave, it's that I just feel like
(53:46):
come on, people, there's enoughinformation out there.
Let's all wake up, let's allopen our minds a little bit.
That's the thing that I findthe most frustrating.
Vince (53:56):
I was just going to ask you, as we wind this down, what
your advice would be to peoplebetween now and November.
Is it fifth on the election?
Sixth?
Yeah, you know, but I think youjust said it.
Well, open your mind, get yourinformation, vote for who you
feel like voting for.
You know, you hear campaignersout there now saying people
(54:17):
should be free to marry who theywant to marry and love who they
want to love.
I'm all for that.
People should be able to votefor whoever they want to vote
for.
Please, please vote vote.
Joe (54:27):
Be informed when you do.
Try your best to be informedwhen you do.
That's all.
If I were, if I were givingadvice, I would say try your
best to be informed and reallyask yourself is this single
source that I've been using allthese years, is that really the
best way to inform me, and dothey have other interests in
(54:47):
mind when they're feeding methis information?
It's a product.
Information is a product, andif you really want to know I
think there's a saying aboutthat you have to go out and look
.
If you want to see, you have tobe willing to look, and that's
my advice Go, look for theinformation.
Vince (55:09):
Well, is there anything else you'd like to say before we
?
Joe (55:11):
No what I would like to say is this was fun, Vince, and
maybe we should start doing thismore often again.
Vince (55:17):
Well, we'll have 34 episodes under our belt and we
did promise to come back on theair, and so thank you for all of
those who have been with us forthis time.
We appreciate and you will beable to leave comments and
feedback and let us know ifthere's anything else you'd like
us to delve into.
On behalf of Friends in Wonder.
My friend in wonder, Joe, havea great day.
(55:39):
I'm not sure what you're goingto be doing today, but I hope
it's joyful.
Are you going to be campaigningtoday?
Joe (55:44):
Most likely.
Vince (55:44):
there isn't a day goes by that I don't do something, so
yeah, well, get out there andkeep the fires going, joe, and
we will see you all again onFriends in Wonder.
Joe (55:55):
Thank you, Vince.
I appreciate the opportunitytoday.
Thank you, Vince.
Vince (56:00):
You betcha have a great day everyone.
Thanks for joining us.
You can find other podcasts byFriends in Wonder on Spotify and
any of your other podcaststreaming platforms or
friendsinwondercom.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.