Episode Transcript
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Music.
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Good evening, world. This is the Fright Talk, guys.
I'm here with part of your host. I am Nadeem Tabs, and I'm here with my better
half, my great, scary, frightening co-host, Billy. Hey, you folks.
What's up, NT? And what's up, Fright Talk world? Good to hear it.
Good to visually see you all. That's right. Virtually see you. Absolutely.
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Thank you, everybody, for tuning in to our last couple of shows.
We really, really appreciate it. And we have a very fun one and kind of eerie today, right, Billy?
So as monsters and everything that encompasses, whether that's in movies, in books, in real life.
So there's that whole topic that we're going to get into.
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And we think that you're going to have a different perspective when you hear
from us about what we think about. And we're just going to talk through it and
give you a lot of good, frightening things as we're coming up to our season, the fall and Halloween.
And Billy, I got to give you props. This was your idea to do this topic.
And it's a great topic. What came to mind for you to say, hey,
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let's do this topic? Was it something particular?
It was. When you actually spawned the previous show, we talked about teacher
nightmares, education nightmares. Mirrors. It was a fun episode.
One of our highest today, actually.
And then keeping that spirit of back to school, I said, well,
wait, let's just focus on children now.
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Children as monsters. And here's something else.
We both see this as writers. Whenever I see all calls for short stories or manuscripts
for books, the one thing I see as a common cause is that no children,
no mutilation or harm to children.
No subjugation of children.
We don't want work. We don't want poetry. We don't want art that has that focus.
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And we get why. So we respect that all the same.
But then there have been a few works that have been able to circumvent that
a bit and give children the anti-hero as monsters and or just a plain out villain.
And maybe we don't want the children to live.
But the point is, it really emanated from that, the idea that we're out of these
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nightmares of teacher nightmares.
Obviously, they manifest themselves somewhere, perhaps with children.
So thank you. Well, you know, if you think back, and for folks that are listening,
think back to some scary movies that you've seen.
And sometimes, a lot of times, they'll want to use the voice,
maybe in a distance, maybe a ghostly voice of a little girl.
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Why? Because it's somehow creepier than an adult when you hear a little girl's
voice. I remember the advertisement for Lady in the Water.
And, you know, at the end of the trailer, you hear Lady in the Water,
a whisper, but it's a little girl's voice. and there was something just kind
of spectacular and creepy about it.
So it's almost like, you know, imagine if you were in the woods and you see
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nothing, but you hear in the distance, you know, children playing.
I mean, that's a creepy feeling.
And so I think a lot of times they're used, children's voices are used in horror
movies as a kind of like extra creep factor.
In fact, as you were speaking, I'm beginning to hear the sounds of a music box
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playing and I'm hearing that.
Would you like to come play with us? Why is it that a little girl,
not a little boy, not a little girl's voice is often used to that sound?
And then even more so, I'm reminded of one of the most classic movies.
And the one I'm thinking of is Children of the Corn. Oh, yeah.
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Yeah. Not only the book, but the movie as well. Children of the Corn.
And so, have you seen it before, I think, right? The one in the 80s,
I think. The 80s one, the original one. Yeah, yeah.
I haven't seen the remake if there's i think there was a
remake i haven't seen so the in the whole
storyline that these children plays off of an interesting
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urban folktale actually and these
children who had this ability to be destructive right and i think that people
don't see children as as monsters in that way but if children have superhuman
powers is that child now superhuman or something if they're using it for good
we call it a superhero but this is not
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a superhero here versus the kid in Firestarter.
When Drew Barrymore played in Firestarter, she had these emotions when things
would happen, they would just happen.
And who created both of these? Stephen King.
And so what's that Spielberg, Firestarter? Was it Stephen King as well? I think it was.
I think it was Stephen King. Stephen King as well. So he was able to get away
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with this. I thought that was super neat.
But in each of those examples, one has the child as a demon,
and the other is a child that is content contaminated or
because of life parental stories
upbringing like the stories are
so different but society doesn't want either
yeah that's true it's odd
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because so i so when you
mentioned about them using the the when they do movies and
they use a girl's voice as opposed to a little boy's voice
i think it has to do with maybe i guess our
brains are there's more innocence even though
a child has innocence regardless of their gender but i think it just has to
do with more of the people associate the the girl the little girl voice with
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more of an innocence factor and then it goes it kind of spawns off into you
know think of the movie daniel or the book date you know so you can have a little
bit of everything and it's almost you're right there is a taboo factor oh you
don't want to make kids out to be monsters but i think that's kind of why it
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works because you don't expect.
A child that has these powers to do these awful things do you remember the movie
billy called the good son with macaulay culkin yes and in that movie it wasn't
a horror movie but it was a a thriller,
and this kid didn't have any superpowers.
It was played by Macaulay Culkin, but he had a very...
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You know deliberately a cruelty to
him towards brother and it
was you know he would do all these things and then play innocent
and so he didn't take the form of a monster but his character was certainly
a monster in that storyline in fact that character played very much off of the
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notion of siblings you and i both have siblings and they have to you know in
both cases male brother and And when you,
there are disagreements, but when those disagreements or circumstances escalate, right?
And they escalate to something greater, it makes it kind of horrific because
it's one thing to fight over a toy or put space on the bike,
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or you took and wore my shirt, or you took, worst case, your girl.
The point is that at the end of the day, you still have these circumstances
where I don't want to hurt my brother. I don't want to hurt my kin.
Right. And in that particular movie, we saw that push to another level. Yeah.
In a different way. and the art of manipulation we
have to remember that children and you know this as an elementary teacher firsthand
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and has studied and worked many years in
an elementary sector alone a child
who knows the art of manipulation at a very young
age can do some wondrous if
not destructive things oh yeah absolutely absolutely
and you know you see it based on experiences as
well and you say to yourself huh this little
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child's a little demon child what are they capable
of you know the way they treat their friends and
and stuff like that and you know there's a difference though between
cruelty when they're that young between cruelty
and just not knowing any better i don't understand
you know whatever but that cruelty level and when
we see these things in popular culture
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when we see that they use kids as monsters
or the antagonist or whatever i wonder
if we think to ourselves okay well they're the
antagonist how is it do
we root for that or is it do we see it whether it's a child or not do we see
it as you're the bad guy and we want you to to go down because we want the protagonist
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to to win the human nature for the most part it's like oh i wanted the protagonist to win,
not the antagonist. And so, I don't know.
Do you think it's when in popular culture, people just kind of.
Kind of throw caution to the wind when, oh, the child's a monster.
I don't care. I'll drive Stinky with heart.
I think what happens is that it depends on the context of how this chapter,
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how this child is introduced, this character of the child.
Is it a child of true human origin or does it have other forces that control it, right?
And so this child as monster now gets celebrated in such a unique way.
If the circumstance, and one of our favorites is Abigail, Yeah.
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Abigail is a great movie. I think everyone should go watch it. It was a fun watch.
It really was. I found it so fun. And there was some nice enough thrillers to
be like, oh, oh, okay, that's what happened.
And like you said, the old notion of being the antihero, I kind of wanted her
to win because these folks shouldn't have been what they were.
Yes. Who had done with her. And I wanted to see what she would do to kick ass and make it happen.
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That was kind of cool watching it. conversely and
i just thought about something okay so abigail i wanted
to win but in other movies such
as it's alive right the the babies were were nuked they had some kind of situation
going on and then now they're little demons with walrus fangs and so and i don't
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want that to win So and I'm thinking, whoa, baby attacking.
But then maybe still it's like, whoa.
OK, so here we had two extremes of a child, one that is celebrated through the
lore of vampire, the other through monster like true mutated monster.
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Such a difference and such a different outcome for each. Yeah.
And I, you know, when we, when we read book, when we hear story,
when we watch movie, our brains are built to go good guy, bad guy.
So we immediately kind of determine what side we're on.
Very rarely do we read something or see something where we're halfway through and we're neutral.
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Right. And so we look at these stories and these accounts and we say,
well, you know, I'll root for the child if the, you know, even if the child's a monster,
I'll root for the child if the other people are worse than the monster.
And that, which is kind of. Yeah, yeah.
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I'm trying not to get too into spoilers, but that's essentially what it is.
And you know, they do a good job if you find yourself rooting for the monster.
Monster you're like i want the monster to tear these people up because in my
mind even though although it's a monster it is in my brain the good person or
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the good creature versus the bad and do you find yourself such as in abigail's
case do you find yourself.
Yes and i agree with the anti-hero rooting for her
but then there was a moment when she becomes comes a child again yeah and
and and the notions of everything that a
child doesn't want especially the things that would scare them
such as abandonment and all of that yeah and
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neglect like i thought that was so wonderful how
the movie was able to parlay those themes somehow
within the context of the plot and it
made me kind of like think okay so i want
to see another a sequel to that that was very interesting but
but then here let me say i don't know if i want to see
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another it's alive yeah i don't think so
either you see my point because i'm thinking oh the babies are mutated
they're attacking killing people oh and i i think the
it's not even about the plot it's just unless there is a backstory to that there
was a third movie i should share this with you i haven't seen it but my uncle
told me he said there was an it's alive three where those babies grew up and
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they were stranded on an island and he said it was very good but But these are
no longer babies now. Now they're adults with these issues.
So now the childless monster has migrated to an adult as one.
So it's like, okay, then you're not what I used to be.
I thought it was interesting. Okay, we got demon there, but can I switch it
a bit? Okay, so when we had childless ghosts...
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Or spirit. Now, that's a whole other space.
At least and often what I've seen in the monster, you know, as the monster icon,
these individuals had some tragedy.
Some tragic thing happened to them or abandonment or all the above.
And there was unfinished business. And now that spirit is haunting a space.
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So either it's helping the living or it's taunting it.
You know, so it's It's interesting, and I've seen that in books and in movies
play out as a common thread, among them all.
I'm just wondering, though, that seems to be like the safest space for the monster child.
Right, right. When we've seen these documentaries about ghosts and stuff,
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whenever they're able to identify or, oh, it's the spirit of a child,
this magic part kind of sinks a little.
Because even though it is a ghost it doesn't
mean it's a monster but also because it's a
ghost and it's a child you immediately make the connection
that they reached their end in life
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at a very early age which is depressing all on
its own i remember watching a
few months ago maybe even a year ago it was
a documentary on bigfoot shout out to the cr listen
to our episode on bigfoot a couple episodes ago by folks it was
really really good but i was watching this documentary mentioned these folks
were you know doing research field investigation they were out in the middle
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of nowhere and they were in the woods and they come across they they get some
sort of signature whatever so they they're looking for bigfoot they end up in
an area when they look down.
It's an old cemetery but in the middle of nowhere i mean earth started taking
it over it was overgrown but when they started looking at the date they realized
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they were all children children,
which to me is scarier than Bigfoot.
Because you say to yourself, this is the middle of nowhere.
There's a graveyard. That in itself is very creepy. But the fact that they were
all children is even creepier. Your brain goes to what happened here.
Was it a small town that they killed the children?
What was it? Were all the kids poisoned?
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I mean, all these things go through your mind.
So I think anything associated with kids as monsters or kids in the paranormal
realm just has an immediate creep factor that other levels can't get to.
In fact, one of the most classics, Rosemary's Baby. Oh, yeah. The.
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Her nia farrow played in that role i think she
was the main character and then there was all this other
conspiracy about the baby the baby the baby the spawn of satan right this baby
is the monster but also wait a minute this baby is now the gateway and it's
also a metaphor to some much more that we birthed in reality that may be born
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of sin right and think about this as children Children,
you know, we don't ask to be born. We're born the way we are, right?
Right. And so, and sometimes we all can be born in great circumstances and be born into some bad ones.
And I'm always wondering if we can get more stories that play off of that,
that can really give that backstory.
We get that sometimes, but it's always at the tragedy.
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The children died on the bus or the children were the manifestation of their environment.
Okay. For instance, let me give you an example. Simple.
Children as monsters in the movie, classic movie, one of my favorite movies
that I hope to see this season, Trick or Treat.
Oh, yeah. The kids on the bus. Yeah. And the kids that died on that bus.
Oh. And those zombie kids.
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Right. And then how they came back, and how they came back twice,
you know, not only in their part of the movie, but in the holistic at the end.
So no spoilers there, but just to share.
Okay, so wait a minute. they were almost like
vengeance and it's to see the
child as anti-hero now in that regard it's like oh wait these poor kids died
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this way they have a right to oppress the living now that seems to give us a
charge of okayness for children as monsters well you know what I'm going to
piggyback off of that idea because think of the flowers in the attic.
Andrew's book that they eventually would make a movie and in that And folks,
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if you haven't read Flowers in the Attic, you need to read it. It is really creepy.
The kids, your heart goes out to them.
But you also are okay if they do something monstrous to their oppressor.
You're actually, at least for me, hoping for it. You want them to fight back.
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You want them to be just as vicious and as cruel as the person is being as cruel to them.
And so that kind of offers the idea of, you know what? But I'm okay with kids
being monsters if they're taking out the person that I deem to be the bad person.
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That's a good point.
So with that thought, then I guess Beowulf.
I'm thinking of Beowulf as an example and the classic Anglo-Saxon work.
You look at this work and we really don't
understand what beowulf and who he was right as much
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until we hear grendel's story and so
it's like wait a minute now we got a mother like supporting her child they're
both little monsters and neither one is accepted by society so these they're
these titans of the era and so when children become that aspect we are okay
with what you just described but then i also look at the other children the
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other monsters of children in Greek and classic Greek and Roman mythology,
the Titans themselves were monsters.
And they were sent to Hades after, of course, Zeus had overthrown his parents, Cronus mainly.
And as a result of that, these poor children now, these misfit children,
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some with eyes, some with a thousand hands.
It's just interesting how the more misfit you become, nobody wants you.
You're ostracized as well. Now you are the monster and you deserve what you
get. You were born into what you got.
And I think that I don't think society is ever in film ever wants to play that out.
Is that this doesn't play out well for the viewers and the audiences that receive
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it, regardless of generations.
Yeah. I agree with you. And it,
In the classical, in the classic literature, it's there and it's prominent,
but we don't pay too much attention to it.
Because now that you're mentioning, because I hadn't thought about that perspective, it is very prominent.
And I feel like sometimes now they'll use children as a cop out and they don't
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want to fully commit. Let me give you an example.
Terrifier 2, which I love the Terrifier 2. I thought they were really good.
Terrifier 2, his subconscious is a little girl.
Which is really creepy, but it commits not to it's a little girl serial killer,
because that would be too much of a commitment, just that it's his subconscious.
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And so, having said that, I say to myself, well, it kind of worked better that
way, because it's creepier that his subconscious or his imaginary friend is a little girl.
But you know i don't
know could they get away with doing the same story and
not having art the clown and just having a
little girl being this like crazed serial
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killer would that be okay or would
that be too taboo or you know
i like that thought i'd even add would it even be would
it be marketable think about that for a second and
i'm always wondering very good point terrifiers why am
i I creeped out like I I get creeped out when I
see a female evil protagonist in a
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storyline right because there's something
magnificent and scary we didn't hear of female serial
killers at one point we talked about it sometimes fast you know
there's there's horror in the mind of that thought but most times
these horror figures that are really graphic or gruesome
tend to be more males but not children
but then you have the
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exorcist series of any sort whether it
be the exorcist of emily rose and the exorcist of exorcists and
whatever you know and so now you have all these cases where it's.
Like oh this poor innocent girl you know the devil chose her as the entrance
you know and so now we have a child monstrified here in a whole other way other
level and and i think what even scares us too when i think of linda blair where
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she played that role and she talks about her role in that. She was 16 at the time she played that.
And the things that she was saying, the things that would come out of her mouth
at 16, it was like, oh my God, a 16-year-old would say that.
And even more so, people were passing out in the movie theaters at this movie.
There was such a sensationalism about it. So I'm thinking to myself,
wow, now we haven't seen that in a while.
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We've not seen any other horror movie in
our modern time that makes the child the child
monster makes us want to grip and hold on to the edge of our seats i agree with
you i agree with you and you know i think of the movie carrie and i rooted for
kids the reason why is because she was a tortured soul at school and at home,
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And so they give you all this, you know, they take you through this and you
just feel sorry for this entire time.
And then she blows up.
And when she blows up, you say to yourself, OK, but she blew up.
I understand that, you know, it's a little bit intense.
Everything's on fire. But you also kind of sympathize. At least I did.
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Because I'm like, OK, this is a person who was, I mean, hard home life.
No break in school. you know but carrie's a teenager and does she fall into
that category of child i i don't know.
Where's the line you get what i'm saying yeah it's almost
like i loved her kick-ass moments but then i felt bad for her because it was
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like sorry to say folks for this spoiler bit it's almost like seal and witch
trials for her ending it was like wait a minute what happened And worst of all,
not because of those who bullied her.
Yeah. Right? It was her own crushing self-conflict that caused it.
So I didn't like that ending.
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I didn't like that closure for someone like her.
I wanted her to get the help. I get why she was traumatized and how she was misunderstood.
And so I just wish that it had been a bit better for her.
But I love the storyline. line. And I like the original versus the remakes have been pretty cool.
They're all super cool. Keep in mind folks, Carrie was supposed to be playing prom 16, 17, 18.
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So she's technically kid here. And wow.
I will say this.
We said this a while ago. Remember the movie Mimic? Yeah. Okay,
it was about a roach and it was a roach movie.
But I didn't like the fact that a child died.
Why am I okay with child monsters dying in a certain way?
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I'll give you the example. If we go into the notions, child's play.
Okay. So is Chucky a child?
We know how he became Chucky. We know the gateway of which it becomes children.
But in the latter series, you look at the series of how it's playing out today.
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Chucky is definitely not the Chucky we knew from before, but he's
still up to the same mischievous stuff and so i'm
wondering like okay all right child where are we
now do toys count as children you know
even if they look like children oh i don't know that's i mean do toys count
as monsters even if they portray children that's what i should say i don't know
i think of chucky i know chucky is chucky the doll a child's doll so but it's
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hard to disconnect and not make the association with them and some of the
later movies where he has like bride of
chucky you know and he's you know sleep with the
a female doll you're like okay this is but but the storyline
is that that that doll is encompassed by an adult that's true period you know
but he does have a kid remember that kid he does have a cross dressing and all
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that stuff like that so i was like okay so this is so interesting and now i
think about that movie was very much ahead of his time yeah like well you You know,
and I want you to, because you'll remember this maybe a little bit better than I will.
You know what I haven't seen? I've seen films and I've read books where children are vampires.
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We've seen stories where children are zombies. Even seen some stories where
children are brought up as witches.
But I don't recall seeing children as werewolves.
Not at all. And if they're part of a pact, the only glimpse I got of that,
like you just knew because she ran with the pact because her father was one,
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was in the movie True, in the show True Blood.
And Alcide, I think his name was, I forgot their names, but he was the big brawny
guy who used to be married to Sofia Vergara.
He, there was a kid that was in that pact. And I remember that kid,
they were like talking to her one episode. She was like a stock figure.
But then I thought, oh wait, there's a kid werewolf. is she going
to transfer form is she going to be lycanthropic right now
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we never got to see that that's a very good point we never
get to see that we do see witches a lot like sabrina the dark adventures of
sabrina classic love it i'm i i love love love the show and so okay but is is
Is Wednesday Adams a monster?
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I don't think so. And if he is, I'm okay with it. I mean, no,
if you, the folks, if you've seen the show.
A little different from the movies right but in the show she
is protective of her brother but tortures him
at the same time but it's only like it's like it's kind
of like me with my brother i'm the only one allowed to torture him you know
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what i mean then i get defensive with someone else and so
but i don't think she's a monster because she was brought
up in this just family of coopiness and gothicness and
and and i don't think she's a monster
even that you know her heard trying
to electrocute the brother it's like that i
don't i see her as i don't
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know just a confident goth i mean do you see her
as a monster i don't see her as a monster what i what i what i do see but from
point it depends on the point of view the kids do because she wears all black
she says he's she's very intelligent she says these sadistic things that creep
them out she also knows how to handle them well so she can bully the bullies
and i kind of like that about her so So,
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monstrosity as far as from her peers or those in society that may deem her as strange or unusual.
Yes, she is a monster to them.
But in truth, the more you get to know her and watch the show,
you begin to recognize the monster is really the world around her.
Correct. And she's just trying to live and be. She's not bothering.
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You don't bother Wednesday, even in her dark, dark abyss of a heart.
If you dig deeply, you'll find some compassion.
And I saw that play out too. So I just find that now today you,
and then it takes a Jenna Ortega to make it work. I love her.
So it makes it work with her act, her actor skills.
I'm just wondering though, you know,
Will the Purge. Okay.
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Are there children involved in the Purge? Are those all young adults creating this chaos?
Well, I mean, let's go here. If the Purge in the film, if the Purge were to
exist and people are allowed to kill anybody in this one day of the year,
are children included in that?
No way. It shouldn't be, right? In their law, it shouldn't be.
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It's probably like an age minimum i would hope
that you know but that's an excellent point i never thought about it i don't
recall do you recall children being no right i don't i don't but then you had
these teenagers see i call them teenagers because they're younger than i am
but i know in my heart that they're not teens they're not the average teenager they're young adults,
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who you know and others because there are others as well
who are just manifesting all this issue there's
this problem it's also like splatterpunk inspired so
the splatterpunk literature and films are you
know yeah there's all this mutilation and murder but it's also politically
driven there's a message of sorts
that's that's that the the overarching theme in the movie creates i don't see
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the child as i don't see them there but then okay hold on but then when we play
with childhood fantasies and nightmares bloody mary oh yeah urban bloody mary
girl the story is It's interesting with origin,
but with Bloody Mary, there's Bloody Mary amongst there.
You know i mean so the the
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the urban legends of it are great right
and final fantasy was teenagers too wasn't it yeah yeah so
well let me go here because i remember that people when it came out remember
it they used to have a group of children being and i know that our topic today
is children and monsters but i know that people had issue with how gory the remakes were with
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the clown eating the children and so on and so forth.
Do you think if the roles were reversed, people wouldn't have as much of an outcry?
If it was these children that were cannibals and they somehow ate somebody who
dressed as a clown, would the outcry be the same?
I think it would not be the same. And you bring up a good point.
Think about the fact that, well, if the child is doing it, then we know it's not a child anymore.
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We somehow categorize it as some other entity or monstrosity.
So it's beyond being a child or human. men also too
it doesn't make it as believable you know because children
at the end of the day clowns are scary and those
clowns devouring are scarier and kids
looking for clowns that are scarier and also not good and so it's like interesting
(31:54):
it plays off of the whole notion of curiosity killing the cat or the kid i'm
wondering though if we take it back to what you said previously about the werewolf
so we get okay we had teenage werewolf that's true Okay.
But we knew he was like 20 when Michael J. Fox was playing this. He was only his 20.
So it's like, you're not a real monster, sir.
(32:17):
You just run around with some hair on.
But if that were to play a dark adventure, if we were to make the dark adventures
of the Teenage Werewolf, kind of like the Sabrina and make it darker,
what would that look like? Ooh.
What would that look like? It would be more interesting to have a female a werewolf.
(32:38):
I think if we did a teen wolf,
or tween wolf maybe somebody going
into high school and she was a werewolf i would
think that that would be pretty good because it's the
the role reversal there's a show that really not about children but there's
a show oh man now i can't think of the name i think it's wolf like me oh okay
(33:04):
i gotcha and the show's great by the way i'm not going to give you guys any
spoilers you You should check it out.
But whenever the role is reversed of something that we're used to,
it makes people uncomfortable.
And when people are uncomfortable, they're more likely to get sick.
And I think that's kind of the goal with the whole, you know,
(33:26):
children, to use children as monsters.
And look, children can be monsters in real life, folks. We're talking here about literature.
We're talking about movies. And there's plenty of stories out there where children
are real life monsters. I'm not talking about real life vampires.
I'm just talking about they do monstrous things.
(33:47):
But I think children are expected to have, which undoubtedly they do, innocence.
When you grab something that's supposed to be innocent or have more innocence
and you turn it into a monster, it's a shock and awe factor. Think of the nun.
You think of a nun as somebody holy, who lived their life dedicated,
(34:12):
and then to see this as a monster, it just completely throws you for a whirlwind.
And because it's such a different idea, I think it's going to make it work.
I think the idea, too, would, you know, I'll give you an example to support that.
Trick-or-treaters right well we think of trick-or-treaters is that one night
we can masquerade and be anything we want and you know a trick or a treat and then there's sam,
(34:34):
sam from trick-or-treat so is sam a kid is sam a child i always assumed that
sam was a child am i wrong i did also because of his size but then his actions
were far from it his behaviors and you know it's so interesting and he's such
an iconic figure here comes sam i mean i like seeing that little character, I'm like, oh,
I even saw a kid, by the way, as an aside, there was a, I can't remember if
(34:58):
it was a YouTube video where kids were standing at a, it was like a spoof, a parody off of it.
And this kid was standing at, these kids were getting, standing at a bus stop
and all the kids are looking at the one kid dressed as Sam and he turns and
looks at them holding his lap. It's hilarious.
And so, and it was just enough of a moment of two, you know,
40 seconds to say, holy crap. Right.
(35:20):
And so, but Sam is Sam, the child, You know, and then, you know,
when you take on that mask, it's far from it.
But it's interesting how, at the end of the day, if we're going to take the
whole notion of children to the next level, I think there has to be,
and I get it, in literature, if you're publishing things, no one wants to put
in writing the horrific realities of a child. Correct.
(35:41):
If we set it up in such a way, with such a premise that the child is never a
child from the start, it just took on the visage of a child and it was doing
all these things to humanity, that gives an escape route or at least an end
route to getting it done.
Getting the scaredom done, getting the child acknowledged in some way.
If the child has some kind of tragedy and is driven, just like a human,
(36:03):
driven through whatever those circumstances, that gives the child the monstrosity, right?
If the child dies of a tragedy, you know, an accident, things like that,
that gives the child the acknowledgement.
It gives, like, some understanding, some acceptance to the space.
But I want to use the omen in Damien, you know, from that movie.
(36:23):
A child born bad, a bad seed, as noted in the Bible.
So if we were to play on that just a little bit more, because when people don't
want to touch the religion, right? Don't touch their religion. Oh, yeah.
But then if we played it and we started there, but we just moved away from it,
to really give it a voice and to give it depth, that could be a new form of
(36:48):
scare them for the ideal child monster.
Because we're getting these backstories and these prequels that we don't understand.
The witches you know like what's the
name of the the play that comes out wicked oh wait
you get the wicked ideal and the wicked witch you know how it goes back to her
story how that goes out okay now it gave her some sense of good okay that we
(37:09):
got a prequel so we got a prequel to some of these other characters in other
monsters and children it might give justification for what
we could do and where we could go.
Just a thought. Just a thought. You know, and if you think about it,
it doesn't seem credible to make children monsters in every space.
I mean, is it an alien baby monster?
(37:31):
Is the alien baby monster a child? You know, like, I'm not thinking of that
because the alien is not us.
It's foreign to us by its visage, right? Its look. Right, right.
So these are all random thoughts, but it's just looking at the notion of a child as a monster.
Monster are we really the monster all along and
we want to do these things because we're projecting on this child what
(37:53):
we can't protect it from this could be could
very well be really i'm going to give you a high percent would you be more frightened
of a zombie adult or a zombie child would you be frightened of a vampire adult
or a vampire child a werewolf adult werewolf child Like,
(38:15):
would you be creeped out in situations? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
You take the adult aspect of a monster and you turn it into a child.
If it were a zombie child coming after you, would you be somehow more scared than an adult?
Oh, I think child all of the above. And I'll tell you why. You just made me think here.
(38:36):
Because my assumption, a younger life has more energy and more speed than I do.
And so I think that world-proof, they could cover much more ground and do more
things. They can scale things much faster than I can with that childhood tendency or body.
If they are, you know, a zombie, they can move a little faster.
(38:56):
They might not be as sluggish and drag and stuff because they have less weight.
So I'm wondering if the child in all cases would be more dangerous. I saw that in Abigail.
Okay, she was a freaking ballerina. Holy moly. These kids should be dancing
around and all that. I'm like, oh, my Lord.
Now we got her dancing here on the chandeliers and all kinds of stuff.
And so now I'm thinking about it.
(39:17):
Okay, if an adult did that, yeah, we think the bigger it is,
the stronger it is because it has those superhuman things or qualities that come with it.
But a child with those tendencies could be just not more dangerous.
I think so, too. Especially the speed factor that you're talking about.
Okay, so when you're younger, your bones are made of rubber.
(39:39):
You fall, you get back up, you don't think twice about it.
You may get a break, you recoup, you keep going. at this age
we fall it takes us three hours to get back up you know
but there is there is something
inherently creepy about children converted into
monsters and i agree with you if they're used
strategically through literature books and shows
(40:01):
they can get to a
level of creepdom that other characters simply cannot
get to now i think a lot of times how some writers
may get away with this so how some shows may get away with
it is they don't fully commit to okay we
don't want to make them an adult but we also don't want
to make them a child child let's make them a
(40:22):
teenager so you think of the movie screen you think of the movie carry fluffy
the vampire slayer you make them a teenager because that gives you such a great
environment of high school and everything that comes along with it and all the
characters that you can come across and of course you got the a gymnasium.
So the setting is perfect for it.
So I think a lot of times we'll say let's make it into a teenager.
(40:43):
If we make this show or this story teenager based, we can kind of.
I guess, get away with more. Yeah. Because they were just a straight up pure child.
I agree with you. And you just made me realize something.
Can we have children be the children in actors?
(41:04):
And not have 20-something-year-olds playing children? Absolutely.
Because I think that also gives us that compelling edge.
And I want to celebrate folks who were great child actors who did very well. Macaulay Culkin.
You know, imagine if we get a talented kid like that. like
this abigail kid was amazing she was great like
i want a real child playing a child or when i
(41:25):
look at the monster child and the the original interview
with a vampire and who starred and she what's her name she's famous now today
yes and look at her then oh my gosh she's acting so like bossy and she was vicious
and she was phenomenal and she was a child let the child be the child
(41:46):
actor let's not portray this person oh they got to
be a team so we can get a 25 year old because we got to play
safe there are some some kids out there that could do that
we also i get it some parents have to be willing to let their kids go there
right to go to that space because i can also see how that could trigger a very
developing mind but folks can we just be entertained and not be so critical
(42:08):
but be intrigued because in that child we may see some dimensions of us.
I completely agree with you. I agree with you. Yes.
And, you know, when we talk about monsters,
we're talking about children as monsters and you start thinking to yourself
and you say, well, when I was in school or when I taught or this and that,
(42:29):
or I may have friends that have kids and that guy, chill, the child is monstrous,
you know, or what's that child?
How, what are they going to turn into if they have such little empathy as a, as a youngster?
What are they going to turn into when they get a little, you know,
Yeah, Nadim, you as a parent, and if I had a child, it'd be a monster.
Well, then I created this. What does that say about me? Chris, listen.
(42:53):
You've had to emanate from somewhere. I don't have children,
so people can't, they can't come after me. No question.
I can't be like, oh, well, you're a child. No, I ain't got no children.
So, but I, I, I agree, though.
I want to say that some parents are like the biggest enablers.
As they don't see a lot of the times, you know, you have a child to be.
(43:14):
And I think in movies or in books, they do portray it in a certain way that
leads you to believe that the parent is kind of ignorant until there's a moment
where the parent can't do anything but creates the reality of what their child has turned into.
And I think it's great. I wish it's something that could be explored more in
(43:36):
movies, but not overdone. Because anytime we overdo something, then we get tired of it.
And that shock and awe factor just completely goes away.
It does. I think it's something that should continue through literature,
through graphic novels.
The graphic novel, Something Killing the Children, is awesome as well.
So I think that it's something that could be explored, but it shouldn't be overdone.
(44:00):
Because the minute we overdo something, you know, nobody wants to see 50 Mummy movies.
No. The minute it's overdone, then it's like, well, is it creepy?
Maybe, but it's not as creepy as it once was because now it's commonplace.
So strategically you don't want to be immune to the fact that oh crap this is
(44:23):
a child that turns into a monster think of the movie life grown eventually turns
into a monster but grown from,
nothing right and they only see the growth of this child and this child starts
doing monstrous things. I mean, there's clues.
(44:43):
It's not like the creature is not telling you from a young age that,
hey, this is turning out to be a dangerous creature.
But I do think it's something that should be explored more, but it's hard to
find that balance really where it's not overdone.
Well said. And folks, we just had an incredible 40 plus minutes of a conversation
(45:06):
that went and spiraled in so many incredible directions.
We want to hear your thoughts, folks. So share with us what our social media feeds.
What do you think is a child monster?
And even more so, some other examples of those that either, A,
we celebrate what you've heard from things you've seen or read,
or those things we haven't even covered.
(45:28):
Because there are so many layers to each of these cases.
But we do leave you with a thought. And that thought is this.
We here at Fright Talk love all children. we want to make sure children are
taken care of and we don't want them hurt but when we place these children or
childlike entities in spaces where adult behavior can sometimes be,
(45:50):
uncontrolling and damaging to them do we really want that child hard and better
yet do you want that child to be able to self-advocate and defend for itself
because if it does what will happen We want that child to live to see another day. It's not a sequel.
So thank you for listening and tune in. We have other exciting episodes.
(46:11):
You know, Brother NT and I have been privileged to be with you for so many episodes.
We're like 45 plus already. Something episode. Yeah.
And folks around the globe, we want to say thank you so much for all of your support near and afar.
We appreciate your love in the Fight Talk family, becoming a member of the Fight
Talk family, but continue to support. We're available in all those social media
(46:32):
feeds, or excuse me, podcast feeds, wherever podcasts are found.
Until next time, thank you.
Music.