August 6, 2025 • 41 mins
Summary
In this episode, Jerry Vinci speaks with Kent Lewis about the evolution of digital marketing, the impact of AI, and the future of SEO and paid media. They discuss the importance of lean marketing teams, user-centered design, and conversion rate optimization in the senior living industry. Kent shares insights on how AI serves as a force multiplier for businesses and emphasizes the need for marketers to adapt to the rapidly changing landscape.
Learn More
- Check out NextNW - a new era of Northwest marketing
- Read Kent's thought leader content or book him for a speaking engagement on his website
- Connect with Kent J. Lewis on LinkedIn
Takeaways
- AI is transforming the marketing landscape, making processes more efficient.
- Digital marketing evolves rapidly due to the experimental nature of marketers.
- AI acts as a force multiplier, enhancing productivity and output.
- Conversion rate optimization can significantly impact revenue.
- Lean marketing teams are more agile and effective in today's environment.
- User-centered design is essential for effective marketing strategies.
- Data-driven decision making is crucial for success in marketing.
- SEO is not dead; it is evolving with AI integration.
- Paid media will increasingly rely on automation and AI.
- Versatile skill sets are becoming more valuable in marketing teams.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to From Leads to Leases - a Senior Living Marketing Podcast
02:26 The Evolution of Digital Marketing
06:46 AI as a Game Changer in Marketing
11:57 Is AI the Silver Bullet for Marketers
15:11 The Future of SEO and AI
19:15 Will Paid Media Be Automated?
22:55 Downsizing the Agency Footprint
35:05 Doubling Conversions
37:12 Why Senior Living Websites Leak Leads
39:21 What is Senior Living is Missing?
41:31 How Senior Living Can Leverage Data
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You still need that human for complex and larger ticket items
and senior living senior care. You need humans to know this is
your family you're talking about.
There will be that need to have humans involved.
Is AI going to save your marketing strategy or slowly
render your agency obsolete? Today's guest has been in the
digital trenches for nearly 30 years and has a refreshingly
(00:23):
grounded take on what's changing, what's hype and what
will always matter. Welcome to From Leads to Leases,
a CCR growth podcast that helps senior living providers
transform their complex challenges into opportunities.
Listen in for stories from industry leaders, innovative
strategies and insights, and with our expertise, learn how to
(00:44):
increase occupancy faster, Guaranteed.
Welcome back to another episode from Leads to Leases, the
podcast that dives deep into thesenior living and senior care
industries, bringing you insights, strategies, and
stories from the experts at the forefront of innovation,
leadership, and care. I'm your host, Jerry Vancey, CEO
of CCR Growth. For those of you who don't know
(01:06):
about us, CCR Growth is a full service marketing and growth
agency that is exclusive to the senior living industry.
And through this podcast, I'm here to guide you through the
evolving landscape of senior care, exploring the innovations,
strategies, and leadership insights that are shaping the
future of the industry. So whether you're a provider, a
caregiver, or an industry, Peter, the show is here to help
(01:29):
you make informed decisions and create meaningful impact.
All right. Today I'm joined by Kent Lewis,
Managing Partner of Anvil Unlimited, founder of PDX
Mindshare, and a veteran in the digital marketing space.
Kent has LED 10 agencies, advised over 1200 clients and
now works as a fractional CMO helping companies adapt to a
post AI marketing landscape. So whether it's SEO, paid media,
(01:53):
conversion strategy or leadership, Kent brings the kind
of clarity only experience can provide.
He's also a well known speaker, mentor and advocate for lean,
smart marketing teams that thrive in times of disruption.
So welcome to the show Kent. I'm so glad to have you here.
Jerry, it's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
Being a fellow marketer, this isalways a, a conversation I love
(02:14):
to have. And I, I do think because so
many senior living teams have marketing and sales at the heart
of what they do, I think it's really important that they get
a, some perspective from 2 seasoned marketers here.
Been in it since the beginning. I think first I want to talk to
you about the, the Longview. You've seen digital marketing
evolve from dial up to AI. What's been the biggest mindset
(02:35):
shift you've had to make over the years?
I would say that the the greatest shift we've seen in AI
and keep in mind I started my career in you know, the mid 90s
and was in search by 96. And the biggest challenge I saw
was or the biggest change I've seen, which is bigger than the
Internet. In my mind, this change will be
bigger than e-commerce, bigger than shifting from print to
(02:57):
online is when, for instance, a friend of mine who's a futurist
said when quantum computing rolls out these really
high-powered jets that are exponentially more powerful than
anything you've ever seen, it'llkill the banking industry.
Nothing will be secure, so meaning everything will have to
change again. But until then, those are maybe
a few years out, but AI is changing the way we work, the
(03:19):
way we think. As a solopreneur, part time
solopreneur, fractional CMO, I can do so much more using AI to
support my handful of clients that I work with.
And then there's, you know, which seems far more impactful
for my clients and, and efficiency for me.
It makes me more profitable per hour and it makes my I'm
delivering far more at a much lower price to my clients as a
(03:43):
marketer, but also so as runninga nonprofit trade group Next
Northwest. It's, you know, creative
services and marketing, digital marketing industry for the
Pacific Northwest is we it allow, it will allow us to
sustain and, and grow as we use these tools for more than just
creating content, you know, to creating value for our members
and so forth. So I don't think there's any
(04:03):
part of our daily lives it can'ttouch or isn't already touching
in some way, whether we know it or not, frankly.
And. Why do you think digital
marketing still evolve it? Well, it seems like it's
evolving faster than most industries.
I think that it's evolving faster because marketers, the
smart ones are experimentalists.Our researchers are constantly
(04:23):
testing new things. Also, I think you can say that
that's the plus side is marketers are cool and fearless
and have a high risk tolerance. Also, we are very dangerously.
We're in a very precarious placewhere we can get fired very
quickly. I've been, you know, you
mentioned, I've been a part of 10 agencies.
I didn't lead them all, but I let most, many of them is that,
(04:43):
you know, I would get fired as a, as an agency for no reason at
all versus employees that I worked with that were terrible
in house and couldn't get fired.So we, we have to evolve in
order to stay relevant with our clients as a service provider,
as a overall marketer, we still have to be competitive to keep
our job right within a, in the brand side corporate marketing.
(05:04):
So I think that's the main thingis that we, it's by necessity,
I'd like to say that's the bare minimum.
And then the the really most successful marketers are doing
it because they know it gives them an edge.
And it may only we may only be minutes ahead of the competitors
now, not days, hours, weeks, months or years.
It's a really fast game of escalation.
Yeah. And I think for most of us too
(05:24):
that are specifically in AB2B marketing space work the
guardians for our clients, right, we're the ones that are
making sure that their business has a presence online.
We're the ones that make sure that their business has a
presence that stays online and stays competitive and profitable
and all of those things. And the second that we're not
doing our job and staying up on tech, it's a downward spiral for
(05:45):
them. And then, of course, the
marketing budget is the first thing that gets cut if that
happens. So yeah, it definitely is
survival, plus looking out for everybody's best interests.
Correct. 100% agree. One of the things you talked
about with the terms of AI too, is you talked about it being a
force multiplier. What does that look like in real
life for businesses trying to navigate this change?
(06:05):
So force multiplier. I'll give you a couple examples.
One, I think that term came out of the SLESLEC event we were
both attending is the example I gave there and I'll give here is
the org chart. The new org chart will have, you
know, your marketing team, let'ssay as a subset of the overall
organization and within marketing, let's see of a five
person marketing team, each one of them over time.
(06:28):
I think this is just an idea I saw from a forward thinking CMO
Chief Marketing Officer is that each employee has three to five
bots under them that are part ofthe team and the org chart.
So they're taken seriously. And I would say given some, you
know, accountability to get somethings done and you don't have
the negotiation for increases inpay and all those HR things, but
(06:51):
you can have output. And and this is the interim
between today's bots and tomorrow's fully agentic, fully
autonomous, you know, beings that go do things for you on a
regular. I would caution against that.
And this is another conversation.
But right now, the best use of AI is there's a human touch
point at every key element. Because this was discussed in
(07:12):
the session we met, it becomes this, this exponential field of
Fluvia that, you know, like a Del river delta that just one
mistake could put you over here way off course or way over here.
So every little correction matters.
So you need to have individual humans looking at each touch
point to make sure that this stuff is still on track.
It's not hallucinating, it's learning, it's getting better,
(07:33):
not Dumber or totally racist or whatever the issue is.
So, so I think we have years before agentic.
We can say that next year we'll have a better idea of what
agentic is and what it looks like.
But for now, we're still kind oftripping over our own bots, you
know, making potentially costly errors.
So there's still a lot more training to do, but I could say
(07:53):
if we look back five years from now and say, remember bots,
those were quaint. And now everything's agentic.
It's you know, it's shopping foryou doing everything except it's
kind of be kind of like the movie Wally, the Disney Pixar
film where people are just in chairs and they don't move and
they kind of get fat and lose their bone structure because AI
will do everything for us. So again, when you talk about a
(08:13):
career, you and I, Jerry may be out of a job in five years.
And so I'm planning for that five year retirement, maybe out
of necessity. But the the other part is that
if you're in a blue collar worldof HVAC electrician, you know
that the crafts you're pretty, you're pretty bulletproof for
the time being until robots get that good at it.
And I don't think you're ever I think the if you're a tile
(08:34):
person or doing wall board and roofing like you're, you're
pretty safe. And I have no problem if my kids
want to go into trade craft, it may be safer career wise, But
but be that as I may, I think weare all going to see
radicalization. So back to the force
multiplayer. It could look at your role could
be managing four or five bots. The other multiplier, just like
I mentioned with me earlier, is I'll give an example of a client
(08:57):
that I I advise that are my clients create FAQs as a SEO
strategy and as a useful strategy to help educate
potential buyers on common questions.
Makes sense. It's really good AI fodder.
AI overviews like pulling from FAQs.
They typically rank well on their own, but I was able to
create an FAQ using clod that I used my clients website to
(09:18):
answer the questions and their voice without a pro version, you
know, no premium version required to do this.
And then obviously with cloud you can also upload documents.
So I can upload say their style guide or some other information.
And I was able in 10 minutes to,you know, from the time I
started the prompt till the timeI emailed them the finished
document. A really solid FAQ.
(09:38):
And now there is some proofing stage.
I sent it in the last week so we'll see how accurate it is.
But a year ago I was sending helping create blogs and other
content that were hot garbage. They were complete
hallucinations. I was pulling from old data and
not directly from the websites you asked them to pull from,
because they couldn't do that a year ago and they couldn't do it
six months ago. So the things are evolving
(09:59):
radically. And so now forced multipliers in
my old agency Anvil, I would have charged them probably $2000
for that, for that FAQ, maybe more.
And it would have taken 8 to 15 hours or whatever.
And it took me, you know, all back and forth under 30 minutes.
And you know, I charge them wellunder $1000 for it.
(10:20):
So the value is still there and they can help, but help guide me
is that good stuff. So force multiplier, I now am
able to create content that would have taken two to three
people and you know, 5 to 10 times longer.
So that's my example and you cango on and on.
Different stages of creating content, editing, programming,
producing, reporting, all of these things can be dramatically
(10:41):
streamlined as a multiplier. It does sound like for us as we
stand right now, AI could potentially be the silver
bullet, right? But I do think there is a lot of
value to that comes out of honing the skill set around how
to use AI. That's something that a lot of
people are just now getting started with and you and I are
probably somewhat light years ahead of them.
So as long as we stay ahead of the curve just a little bit, it
(11:04):
seems like we have a chance to evolve our skill sets as well,
along with technology. Yeah, 100%.
And so, you know, I think that so there's a silver bullet not
to lead the witness, but it's not it is not perfect because
there is still the need for human interaction.
And I'll tell you this, I just had lunch yesterday with a
(11:25):
friend of mine that was 15 to 18years in the coffee industry,
went from knowing nothing about coffee to become the top
salesman in history for this local coffee company here in
Portland. And then he got burned eyes like
I'm done with coffee. And then he went in to do the
financial services thing, you know, to become a financial
advisor. He gave that a year.
He's like, this is not for me. I don't, you know, if you for a
lot of reasons, it wasn't a goodfit for him.
(11:46):
Then he went into the cigar business.
This guy begged him to come on board, helped take this retail
cigar store to the next level and he did it.
And, and instead of 15 years, a year and a half later, he's
like, I've, I've maximized this.I need to go to my next thing.
And his, the whole thing is I need to keep learning new
things. He said, the one thing that I've
got that AI doesn't is the ability to create a connection
with another human. And he's very, very good at it.
(12:08):
And so he can learn a whole new business, whole new set of
products very quickly and talk about it like he's a native.
But he it's the that's secondaryto his connection with say you
in a very short amount of time that AI cannot.
We might change our I might eat my words in two to three years
where we suddenly we have been so full that we fall in love
with a bot. Right.
(12:29):
But I've never talked that much on a on a phone with somebody or
a video conference where I'm like, Oh my God.
But you know, her is a movie andit's and it's probably not going
to be fiction for much longer. My point is that that it's a
silver bullet in a lot of ways, but it will not replace the blue
collar, whatever shape that is. And then that human high level
relationship stuff, it can definitely assist.
(12:50):
It can be a force multiplier by taking somebody doesn't know
you, building a basic report andthen scheduling a meeting.
And then first time you talk to them, they've already been
through 70% of the research and conversations and you're closing
that deal. But you still need that human
for complex and larger ticket items and senior living, senior
care. You need humans to know this is
(13:11):
your family you're talking about.
There will be that that need to have humans involved.
Absolutely, absolutely. It's interesting too, because I
think it's the first time in history where we're seeing some
of the top paying jobs now be atrisk because of technology.
You know, you've got anesthesiologist, for example,
who's one of the highest paid salary in the country, I
believe. And that's a job that
(13:32):
potentially in a couple of yearsAI could be doing without any
intervention from a human. So it's kind of a scary time for
people who are highly specialized.
Yeah, yeah. Makes sense?
Now, just talking about SEO, it's obviously changing rapidly
now that we're seeing so much search volume happening on the
language learning model platforms like ChatGPT.
Some say it's dead, Google's dying.
(13:54):
What's your perception on where it's heading?
So, you know, I've heard, you know, the Google's dying or SEO
is dead for 15 years mostly SEO is dead 15 years ago, 10 years
ago. But I think the Google, Google
dying is there's a part of it's true.
It's not like print and it's notlike vinyl that is making a
comeback for specific reasons and nostalgia.
(14:16):
It's that Google will evolve as AI evolves and as human behavior
evolves. They will always play a key
role. I don't think they will be
obsolete like Polaroid and Kodakand so forth.
I could be wrong, but I think that they are a little too
paranoid for that. But our behavior is changing and
I think their role will change in search.
And right now that role is they are providing that AI like
(14:39):
experience with the AI overviews.
That means I don't have to go toperplexity or somewhere else if
I don't want to. It's all in the the same
interface I'm used to. And they're citing the sources
on the side. It's getting better, the data's
far better. So now that means that marketers
need to figure out about, you know, AI optimization, GGAI,
whatever you want to call it foroptimizing for these AI
(15:01):
overviews or the summaries. And so there are a couple
different strategy and tactics I've seen.
But the cool, the good news is for people that are selling SEO
or for client clients or brands panicking about it is the
fundamentals will still work with AIO because what's
happening is AI is just summarizing and synthesizing a
(15:21):
variety of sources and giving you the best.
That's almost exactly what Google's been doing for 20
something years. So the major difference is it's
in a little bit different delivery and you're not seeing
the clicks because you're not getting as many clicks because
they're getting what they need from the AI overview answer.
However, what that does mean in my mind is that if, if we're now
70% of the way through the buying process, one or more by
(15:44):
the time we go to a website, if that's 70 today, it'll be 90
tomorrow, right in the future, future.
So you need to make sure you're creating really high quality
content that's unique to your brand that fills the AI
appetite. And then those sources, those
some citations will come back toyou and you'll be getting highly
qualified. So traffic will go down and
(16:05):
conversion rates should go way, way, way up as you're getting
fewer, highly more qualified traffic, whether it's leads
inquiries for or applications for to apply to a home,
etcetera. And so the kind of content
that's working is anything unique.
So transcribing webinars, podcast like we're doing here is
(16:26):
good writing original articles that are not AI sourced so that
they add to the opportunity. No others will steal from your
bucket, but it's your bucket andyou're going to get citations
and perhaps over time actually compensation.
The other way is, you know, it'smore about conversations now
than it is about content. So what are the conversations on
Reddit and Cora and other industry specific forums and
(16:48):
where are where are you playing in that?
Other things like press releasesare making a little bit of a
comeback in AI and so are listicles.
Something we used back in the day like top ten this top 20
that best places near me is creating that content, getting
in on the existing content, helping create the future best
(17:10):
of content and being a part of that conversation.
All that seems to be feeding, you know, the AI engine.
The paid side of things, you seepaid media becoming fully
automated. So I honestly, I might be more
concerned about paid search thanI am about SEO because where,
(17:30):
you know, will Google give up all that revenue willingly?
No. So they're going to try and
figure out ways to integrate paid, you know, sponsored ads
into the AI overviews. It's a matter of time.
And I haven't even read about. I'm just assuming that's going
to happen. And then, and I think the model
may have to change from from Click to view back to the old
days. So you're viewing, you would
(17:50):
charge based on how many people viewed that content in the AI
overview. But that you know, then how do
you measure that, right? So the clicks are easier to
measure, more absolute. So volume will be decreasing
automatically as AI takes over. They'll find new ways to
monetize the AI over AI overviews, as I mentioned.
And then to your point, yes, automation will be increasingly
(18:10):
accepted as a standard like performance Max.
But I will say that and this is old information like 815 years
ago, but when we were competing manually against double click
and other large bid management tools that were using machine
learning and early AI, we were outperforming almost every time.
But that AI, even AI from four months ago can't compete with AI
(18:32):
today. So if it's more than a year old,
it's irrelevant effectively. So my my assessment is not as
relevant, but what I would say is AI in theory kind of has to
be better than a human, but we could get a bunch of paid media
experts around say, where the human part matters.
But I'm not enough of an expert.I've hired them.
I haven't been one of them is what exactly the human element
(18:54):
is so is most important for beyond the relationship on the
account side, right? Is what?
What can a human do that AI can't do as good or better?
And I think that's that would bea question I'd post to the paid
media experts because I'm not 100% sure if it's like SEO.
It would be. You have to weed through all the
content that AI generates because it will generate errant
(19:14):
keywords, you know, meta tag recommendations like it's
totally not there. It's it'll say for somebody
launching a business doesn't know AI and plugs in, doesn't
know SEO and uses AI to, they'llget maybe 70 to 80% of the way
there. So I think humans will be the
last mile, that last 20%. And the question is, does that
20% create 80% of the value? That's going to be the statement
(19:37):
that we have to prove as marketers on the paid side in.
Particular, yeah, I mean, if we look at senior living, we look
at how much the market's growing, how many new
communities there are coming up,how many older adults are
entering the market. I mean, everybody's kind of
vying for the same business. So I think that little 1-2
percent, 5% increase that somebody can generate could be
(19:57):
the difference, you know, between somebody getting a lead
and somebody not getting the lead.
I know we talked a little bit of.
Last time about your personal limit on employee size and you
said 25 employees or less was kind of like the the magic
number for you. I think even for senior living
marketers trying not to grow toolarge.
I mean, what advice would you give to to agency owners or to
(20:19):
small marketing teams? Yeah.
So what I would say is my numberis actually lower than that.
It's, it's actually Sweet 16 andI've been a part of 3 or 4
agencies that cross that threshold four or five times,
right? We, you know, we did this and I
remember the first time we went from 12 to to 25, then to 42
(20:41):
back in the mid 699, mid 90s like at employee 17.
I'm like, who are these people? You know, and by when I left and
they were actually, they were ontheir way to 40.
They were at like 30 something. And I was like, I'm not
interested anymore. And I went downstairs and there
were six people and I got to 18 at peak and I was like, this is
losing interest. Then I did it again in 99 where
(21:03):
we went from zero to 19 people in the first year as a startup
agency. 99 two thousand. It was the next day this I came
back from a vacation, employed 17, walked in with a birthday
cake and I'm like, who are you? Like thank you.
This, you know, very beautiful woman that I was like, is this
like a joke? But again, then I go on to work
(21:25):
the next couple weeks. I was like, I don't feel like I
know these people. Like it just had a dilution
effect. So when I launched Anvil in
2000, I told my team we are never going to be originally was
going to be 8. And then we lost Discovery
Channel because I said you're only eight people would never
hire you. And I was like, OK, 16.
That's it. So I built our space 1516 years
ago first for no more than 16 people.
(21:46):
And I said, if we ever find morethan 16 brilliant people, I'll
deal with that when I get there and get guess what, at one point
we're at 17, but it wasn't 16. It was not even 16 brilliant
people. And I rolled a couple people
out, right. So I just think it's hard.
So to your question about like in house marketing teams can be
much smaller in, in the senior living environment, like four or
five people, I would say in a big organization, honestly.
(22:08):
But with AI and with the kind ofoutsourced standard of
offshoring near shoring freelance contractors.
What I'm seeing, and I tend to agree with this through my next
Northwest network here in, in Oregon and beyond, is that
companies that were 30 to 50 employees are now 10 to 20
employees. And they're flexing up with
humans and AI to meet those, thecapacity.
(22:30):
So they lower their risk and their burn rate.
And then they have been known aslarger.
So they're still seen as larger.So they don't have the problem I
did when I was too small. And I don't think the brands
look at total headcount anymore like they used to.
I think it's more like, do you have the capacity or ability?
They don't expect these agenciesto be able to carry the overhead
that they used to because it's just not, it's not even prudent,
frankly. So I think that's the new
(22:51):
normal. I think is, is that honestly,
you know, the 22 years I ran an agency, we averaged probably,
you know, at the peak we were closer to 14.
At the lower end we were, you know, 11 or 12.
And that was, I was loving that size, but I, I was willing to go
larger if we could just find. And I, by the time I sold, I was
like, I'm definitely would neverwant to justify it.
(23:13):
And when I sold and we became almost 40 employees overnight, I
was like, this is definitely notwhat I want, right?
So I've only been validated. I've never been proven wrong.
There are some exceptional companies that have more than 16
people, but there are exceptionsto a rule that I've found has
been true for over 20. In terms of skill sets too, I
mean the traditional agency model, you see everybody's
(23:33):
siloed. Like there's the SEO team, the
social media team, the ads team.In this new day and age of AI,
are these skill sets all couraging together?
Are we looking for team members who who are more versatile?
So what I would say I started out, you know, and searched so
early that there was no structure, there were no
(23:54):
classes, there were no, you know, conferences.
There was no nothing in 96. So when I built start building
my teams back then in 97, I started building a teen 98 and
then from scratch in 99. And then when I started in
really full time and late, it was 3 after an e-mail marketing
startup. I was everybody what owned each,
(24:15):
each one person owned an accountand each person would own half a
dozen to a dozen accounts. And the reason I originally did
that was everybody needed to be a generalist.
And it wasn't that hard to master.
You knew the fundamentals. Keep in mind Google ads didn't
come around till 2002. It was brand new.
So my team understood the basicsand clients weren't that
sophisticated and it was good enough.
(24:35):
And then they knew SEO enough tobe dangerous and that again,
clients weren't that sophisticated.
So they they really understood kind of the whole thing.
And then I grew them and you know, from 2003 to 2012 and I
didn't realize it probably five years too late that we were not
aging properly and and growing the structure, right?
(24:56):
Which is, and this is more aboutunique ability and strengths and
everybody has a superpower. I did not map people's
strengths, but I saw it horrifically backfire when I
forced everybody needs to do everything.
So my best future account peoplewere great with clients, love
them and the clients are more forgiving that they weren't good
at getting things done on time or to a certain standard.
(25:16):
But again, my clients were getting smarter everyday about
this stuff. And then my practitioners really
didn't want to talk to the clients.
His clients were getting in my way.
Can you make sure the client doesn't talk to me?
I'm like, you kind of have to dothat.
So it finally occurred to me in a perfect storm where being AEO
member, this entrepreneurs organization where I had this
guy talk about freak factor and fly your freak flag.
Figure out what you do best and just do that.
(25:37):
And I realized I need to bifurcate.
If you're an account person, you're a high end path people
person and you build trust quickly and people love you and
you're all about taking care of them.
Unfortunately, those people do not promote well into a manager
role. Like your best sales people
become poor managers, sales managers.
So be careful. And then the dual track is or
you become a specialist right inSEOPPC, whatever.
(25:58):
And I definitely had a strong bifurcation.
You're either SEO, you're PPC and by PPCI mean just digital
ads because it's a different skill set.
So whether you're Facebook, Google, doesn't matter.
My team did all ads, ADS and then the the SEO team and the
accounting would do organic social or whatever.
So there's the organic kind of the PR track and the ad track.
And I found that that specialization worked
(26:20):
exceedingly well. I've had maybe two people out of
100 or more people that I've worked for me over the years,
maybe more that actually could do either side well and
interchangeably. But that's literally one or two
out of over 100 people, one percenters.
So you really, you really shoulddo one thing really well instead
of half assing everything. That's a challenge of being a
(26:42):
freelancer. I have freelancers.
I still only recruit freelancersdo specific roles so that I'm
still following that practicum of keeping people in their
special place. And what do you recommend for
senior living providers that maybe you're looking to
outsource their marketing? Would you recommend that they go
with a larger agency if it's a regional or national provider?
(27:03):
Or do you think they should staywith a lean team that's maybe
more agile and not at risk? I I feel like a bloated company
is more at risk of of having to downsize at some point and maybe
dropping some services or quality of work.
I would loathe to work at or even worse own a large agency.
I think they are dying and the the profit model doesn't work
(27:24):
anymore. AI can replicate 30% of their
workforce. You know what I mean?
The force multiplier means you could be, you know, 20 to 40% of
your current size and do the same amount of work.
Also playing to people's strengths, the meeting where
they want to be meeting hybrid work instead of, you know,
forced in office. And I was a big in office guy.
I was really reticent to give upthis any remote hybrid anything
(27:47):
but but that's where it is and that's the reality and and
there's a lot of good can come of it.
I think you miss without being face to face in the same room,
there is a connectivity that is lost.
You cannot replace. You can try and mitigate it.
So I guess what I would say is I've worked at three large full
service agencies and we didn't do any one thing well and we
(28:08):
charged three times as much for the convenience of having one
invoice. That was pretty much what
clients were willing to pay a premium for.
You know, why, why do you go to a dealership for repairs instead
of a local mechanic? Some sort of promise, right?
And so you paid 2, you know, youpaid 30 to 50% more.
So I don't go to the dealership unless it's under warranty.
So that's how I feel about marketing.
(28:30):
I think the best use of if I'm ever going to be in a position
to hire an agency, it's going tobe lean and mean.
They may even not have the depthof experience in my industry,
although a little goes a long way, as long as I like their
thinking, their philosophy and their team.
Because at one point I didn't know any industry, right?
And then after 1200 clients, I know almost every industry at
(28:51):
least cocktail conversation wise.
And so you all I, I would walk my talk and give the smart
company a chance, but they they better be lean and mean.
So I know I'm getting the best price and I know that they are
already weathered. The hardest part that they don't
need to reduce staff. That means I'm going to lose my
account people or my team on their side.
That's expensive. And I when I had 100% turnover
for two years as I rebuilt my team, I lost clients left and
(29:13):
right. They didn't like change even
though I was upgrading the team.They'd rather have no change
than change for the better. OK, that was some of my clients.
The ones that stuck with me definitely benefited from
weathering it out in my apologies to them.
That was my bad for letting it get so bad before I had to blow
it up. So I would say that that you go
with lean and mean. And the other way I look at it
is there is full service or you know, multi service.
(29:36):
They can still be a small boutique.
And then there's the individual specialists and then they're,
you know, like boutique, even smaller boutiques, you know, you
know, 3 to 15 people versus 15 to 30 or whatever it is.
And then there's the freelancers.
So there's a benefit and drawback to each.
And I think what I look at is when I would go to a mid size
firm to get the most level of experience possible for
(29:59):
strategy. And then I would, that's all I
would hire them for or do a trial, three to six month trial
to see if they can do what I need at the price I need it.
And usually they, they can't, inmy experience, their overhead is
too high to make it work. So then you go down to the
specialist, you try that or you go straight down to the
freelancer. The downside with the
freelancers, if you have the budget, going to a boutique so
(30:19):
that there's somebody always able to work on your account
versus I'm on vacation or had a baby.
The freelance thing could be really deadly in times of crisis
unless that person is very experienced and has a back up
plan. So, but I see like coming from
the PR world, I don't think it makes sense to hire a big
bloated PR firm you hire unless it's just for the strategy.
Because literally you can have any AI develop a strategy that's
(30:43):
probably 80% dialed and get takeyou far enough and you can have
a very junior person implement it and get maybe 50 to 60% of
the value of pay, absolutely nothing other than the salary of
a very junior entry level. So I, I think the challenge is
the big expensive firms, the burst and Mart settlers, the
Wagner Etsums here in town, liketheir days are numbered in the,
in the way they do, they offer their pricing and their service
(31:05):
has to change. And so yes, I would go lean and
mean every time. But again, maybe not so lean to
individual freelancers because of the one person prop, but a
lean and mean smaller team that has enough people to get, you
know, 2, at least two, if not 3 layers of backup if, if
somebody's out or or otherwise distracted, so you can get an
answer and shit done. And I think that's the important
(31:27):
thing when I would look at, you know, size and shape.
You talked about, you said you'drather have double conversions
than double ad spend. Can you unpack that for me?
Yeah, I mean, so conversion rateoptimization is key.
So I just gave a presentation atDigital Summit in Denver about
conversion rate optimization. And you know, every, every
percent that you increase your conversion rates is exponential.
(31:52):
Meaning if I'm a 1% conversion rate on my leads to my senior
living center, if I'm going froma, let's say a 2% because that
even that's a little low, but let's say 2% and then I go to
3%, that's a 2530%. That could be massive, massive
revenue. So when I was at an e-commerce
retailer back in 2000 selling TV's and digital cameras, you
(32:14):
know, we only had a 1.5% conversion rate because people
would showroom, they would look at the website and then go to
the showroom. Back when that was saying now we
reverse showroom, right? We go look at it and then we go
buy it online. So at a 1.5%, the first thing I
did when I landed there as the marketing guy wasn't SEO, wasn't
PR, it was conversion rate optimization.
I had one of my friends, it's anexpert in user experience, he
looked at our checkout and our our clearance section and made
(32:37):
some minor changes and I think it was good for like 3 quarter
between 1/2 and three quarter percent increase.
So we went from 1 1/2 to two andtwo to two and a quarter.
And that was almost $2,000,000 by the end of the year because
it was a high volume website. And so, so I literally, I didn't
quite double the conversions, but I made a massive impact on
(32:57):
the bottom line. And, and before I then I went
and, and amped up the SEO and did some PR and things with
Tower Records, if that doesn't date me, but that was, and that
stuff worked, you know, giving away cameras to e-mail lists and
stuff. But again, I was once I had the
higher conversion rate, I knew Iwas maybe 90% of the way there.
And then we can continue to integrate like, you know, Amazon
(33:18):
does every second of every day for the last 20 years.
And when we look at senior living websites and we're
talking about conversions, why do most of them leak leads?
I would say there's a a handful of issues.
The 1st is when I come to the home page as a first time
visitor, does it speak to me? Do what?
Do they understand that I am looking because I am am IA
(33:40):
family member, am IA practitioner, a professional
looking for a quick referral. You know, who am I and does it
speak to me and does it does it separate those audiences and
segment them into a flow that's unique to what they need?
Because a professional does not care about the amenities like
they care about the care the family might care about the
amenities and not care about thecare level of care as much as
(34:02):
they should. So the example I gave and in
Denver was a a company that built crates for dogs and Catios
for cats. And the homepage spoke to both
audiences and throughout the experience and what the my the
firm that I work with Forex determined through the analytics
and a reverse lookup and heat mapping was it or you could just
ask any pet owner is that there's maybe no more than 20%
(34:24):
overlap between dog and cat lovers.
So what they did is they like bifurcated.
Do you love cats or dogs? I do have a cat or a dog.
And then everything was different after that.
And it like doubled the conversions because once you're
like, you're speaking to me and then you take me on a dog
journey. Like I am a cat guy.
Like my friend just had a dog orlike stinks and you're every
day, at every hour, you're picking shit up off the ground.
(34:46):
Like that's not for me. And so, you know, we just bought
an automated cat litter box. That's the craziest thing ever.
And we only update once every two weeks and it never smells.
It's magic and it's, it's almost$800 best money I've ever spent.
So my point is, and now I see their ads in my feet all the
time circling back real quick tosearch.
I think that there will, we'll continue to see ads in our daily
(35:07):
lives throughout, but it may notbe in the intentional section
search mode. We'll still see a more passive
consumption, I think on Instagram and socials and apps
and so forth. Hopefully answered that
question. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And because you've worked in so many other verticals, what do
you think senior living is missing that other industries
have figured out? I would say beyond user centered
(35:30):
design, meaning you don't designit based on what the CEO likes
or the VP of marketing likes colors and fonts.
You design it for the users, the, you know, the family, the
caregivers, the family members, the children, the aunts and
uncles, the sisters and brothers, the the medical
professionals and what do they care about?
What matters to them and design for them secondarily is
(35:51):
conversions on every page you make the ask.
I think the ask here, I'm probably not going to get the
conversion. And so I think that's what other
other industries do well, the other's personalization.
So utilizing some of these toolsare getting smarter and smarter,
including not just chat bots, but other dynamically generated
website content or e-mail content that my God, this speaks
to me. They know I'm in my fees, my
(36:12):
father's and mother in their 80sand they're resistant to going
into senior living. They think there's a stigma
there like hearing aids and whatever, whatever.
Oh, what are some of the messages I would need if I think
it's time, right? That's the kind of how I would
approach it is generating that content for those people based
on where not only they are, but where their parents are or the
their loved 1. And that's the important thing
(36:33):
is, you know, my dad had a minorstroke 5-6 years ago and I
thought I was going to have to put him in senior care.
I went through the whole processand he went and toured the
facilities like, no way. You're not getting in me.
I will never go into a place like this willingly.
And I was like noted. And so he literally willed
himself to recover his vocabulary and all he had
thankfully not really impact hismotor skills, but he had a
(36:55):
dragging foot that's gone. Like he literally did near
impossible just to avoid a senior living situation.
Like whatever it takes. He he at some point will end up
in some sort of care, but we allwill at some point if we're
lucky, I guess. But you know, that's the
important part is like what do Ido with a resistant, you know,
parent nearly in denial. So I think that's an example I'd
give. Yeah, I think there's such an
(37:17):
inversion because it's such a relationship focused, human
centered, focused industry. There's an aversion to
data-driven decision making. How could senior living
providers utilize that in a smarter, better way?
I mean, man, that's, you know, that's not $1,000,000 question,
it's a billion dollar question. I would say that make sure
(37:38):
you're mining all the data you're putting in a data lake in
your, you know, your pro GPT 4 or your, your clawed premium
account or whatever, and then asking the right questions to
unveil new ideas and new patterns that you wouldn't have
thought of on your own. Again, there's some things that
humans understand inherently that AI may not pick up, but AI
(38:01):
is really good at synthesizing data and they don't have the
bias that humans do unless it's it's programmed by a biased
human. Of course, we've learned.
But if you get my drift, I thinkit's really about capturing the
right data, analyzing it, synthesizing.
And then God forbid, the biggestfailure I've seen by a majority
of my clients is action, like acting on that insight instead
of just talking about it, thinking about going, oh, that's
(38:22):
interesting, but not actually making implementations, changes,
optimizations that make a difference on the website
throughout your conversation string across, you know, multi
Omni channel. You know, with AI as it is you,
there's no reason you shouldn't and be able to hit people with
resonating consistent messages. They don't have to be identical,
but it should be relevant to each of the form factors,
(38:43):
whether it's my phone, my computer on TVA print Mailer
that just came in today. Like these things all should be
resonant and personalized over time, like hyper personalized.
So it's like the creepy thing, like my, my wife picked up a, a
new bag for me for Father's Day,a ski bag.
And we were talking about it and, and all of a sudden I
(39:05):
started seeing luggage in my Instagram feed.
And I'm like, dude, that's crazy, right?
So that's where that's going. And it's, and it's unsettling as
a marketer, let alone a human tosee that.
But that is where it's absolutely going.
Awesome. Well, Ken, thank you so much.
This was such a great conversation.
I know our audience has got a ton out of this.
So where can our audience go to learn more about Anvil Unlimited
(39:26):
or connect with you directly? Sure, well thanks for having me.
This has been really fun. My day job where you can find me
as next northwest.org and Executive Director of that
organization. So if you're in the Pacific
Northwest and you're a marketer in the creative services, check
out our website. We got a lot of resources and
cool webinars with a lot of thismartech ad tech theme in the
(39:46):
webinars in particular that anybody can attend.
And then outside of that, related mostly to Anvil is my
Ken J Lewis website where I havemy articles, my speaking
engagements, press mentions. So we didn't have time, but we
know we talked a bit about thought leadership.
And I think that's that's a key part of driving AI optimization
is that new thought leadership content, speaking, writing and
(40:09):
pitching the media. So you can see a lot of examples
of Kendra lewis.com and and follow me through that website
as well. All right, all right, awesome.
As we wrap up today's episode, Iwant to extend a huge thank you
to you, Kent Lewis, for joining us and sharing your hard earned
insights from both the agency and advisory sides of marketing.
From how AI is reshaping our strategies to the deeper role
thought leadership plays in earning trust, Kent, your voice
(40:31):
brings clarity and practicality to a conversation the senior
living industry sorely needs. If you want to connect with Kent
or learn more about his work with Anvil Unlimited or as a
fractional CMO, we've included all of his links in the show
notes. As always, we hope you found
this episode insightful and inspiring.
Don't forget to subscribe to ourpodcast on your favorite
platform and stay tuned for moreepisodes where we continue to
(40:52):
explore the evolving world of senior care, covering everything
from innovative care models and leadership strategies to family
support, technology, and the future of aging.
Also, remember that From Leads to Leases isn't just an audio
experience. We're also a video podcast.
So if you want to see the video versions of our episodes, like
the one here with Kent, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube
or Spotify channels. I'm Jerry Vinci, CEO of CCR
(41:14):
growth. Thank you for joining us on From
Leads to Leases. And please like, subscribe and
share this episode with anyone who might find it useful.
I'm truly grateful for your timeand attention.
And until next time, lead with strategy and with heart.
Chat with you again soon. Thanks Cat.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to From
Leads to Leases. Are you ready to fill your rooms
(41:34):
faster and increase occupancy? Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn
about our Senior Growth Innovation Suite, a proven
system to generate highly qualified tour ready leads,
accelerate sales and reduce acquisition costs.
Let's connect and turn your challenges into opportunities.
See you next time.
You still need that human for complex and larger ticket items
and senior living senior care. You need humans to know this is
your family you're talking about.
There will be that need to have humans involved.
Is AI going to save your marketing strategy or slowly
render your agency obsolete? Today's guest has been in the
digital trenches for nearly 30 years and has a refreshingly
(00:23):
grounded take on what's changing, what's hype and what
will always matter. Welcome to From Leads to Leases,
a CCR growth podcast that helps senior living providers
transform their complex challenges into opportunities.
Listen in for stories from industry leaders, innovative
strategies and insights, and with our expertise, learn how to
(00:44):
increase occupancy faster, Guaranteed.
Welcome back to another episode from Leads to Leases, the
podcast that dives deep into thesenior living and senior care
industries, bringing you insights, strategies, and
stories from the experts at the forefront of innovation,
leadership, and care. I'm your host, Jerry Vancey, CEO
of CCR Growth. For those of you who don't know
(01:06):
about us, CCR Growth is a full service marketing and growth
agency that is exclusive to the senior living industry.
And through this podcast, I'm here to guide you through the
evolving landscape of senior care, exploring the innovations,
strategies, and leadership insights that are shaping the
future of the industry. So whether you're a provider, a
caregiver, or an industry, Peter, the show is here to help
(01:29):
you make informed decisions and create meaningful impact.
All right. Today I'm joined by Kent Lewis,
Managing Partner of Anvil Unlimited, founder of PDX
Mindshare, and a veteran in the digital marketing space.
Kent has LED 10 agencies, advised over 1200 clients and
now works as a fractional CMO helping companies adapt to a
post AI marketing landscape. So whether it's SEO, paid media,
(01:53):
conversion strategy or leadership, Kent brings the kind
of clarity only experience can provide.
He's also a well known speaker, mentor and advocate for lean,
smart marketing teams that thrive in times of disruption.
So welcome to the show Kent. I'm so glad to have you here.
Jerry, it's a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for having me. Absolutely.
Being a fellow marketer, this isalways a, a conversation I love
(02:14):
to have. And I, I do think because so
many senior living teams have marketing and sales at the heart
of what they do, I think it's really important that they get
a, some perspective from 2 seasoned marketers here.
Been in it since the beginning. I think first I want to talk to
you about the, the Longview. You've seen digital marketing
evolve from dial up to AI. What's been the biggest mindset
(02:35):
shift you've had to make over the years?
I would say that the the greatest shift we've seen in AI
and keep in mind I started my career in you know, the mid 90s
and was in search by 96. And the biggest challenge I saw
was or the biggest change I've seen, which is bigger than the
Internet. In my mind, this change will be
bigger than e-commerce, bigger than shifting from print to
(02:57):
online is when, for instance, a friend of mine who's a futurist
said when quantum computing rolls out these really
high-powered jets that are exponentially more powerful than
anything you've ever seen, it'llkill the banking industry.
Nothing will be secure, so meaning everything will have to
change again. But until then, those are maybe
a few years out, but AI is changing the way we work, the
(03:19):
way we think. As a solopreneur, part time
solopreneur, fractional CMO, I can do so much more using AI to
support my handful of clients that I work with.
And then there's, you know, which seems far more impactful
for my clients and, and efficiency for me.
It makes me more profitable per hour and it makes my I'm
delivering far more at a much lower price to my clients as a
(03:43):
marketer, but also so as runninga nonprofit trade group Next
Northwest. It's, you know, creative
services and marketing, digital marketing industry for the
Pacific Northwest is we it allow, it will allow us to
sustain and, and grow as we use these tools for more than just
creating content, you know, to creating value for our members
and so forth. So I don't think there's any
(04:03):
part of our daily lives it can'ttouch or isn't already touching
in some way, whether we know it or not, frankly.
And. Why do you think digital
marketing still evolve it? Well, it seems like it's
evolving faster than most industries.
I think that it's evolving faster because marketers, the
smart ones are experimentalists.Our researchers are constantly
(04:23):
testing new things. Also, I think you can say that
that's the plus side is marketers are cool and fearless
and have a high risk tolerance. Also, we are very dangerously.
We're in a very precarious placewhere we can get fired very
quickly. I've been, you know, you
mentioned, I've been a part of 10 agencies.
I didn't lead them all, but I let most, many of them is that,
(04:43):
you know, I would get fired as a, as an agency for no reason at
all versus employees that I worked with that were terrible
in house and couldn't get fired.So we, we have to evolve in
order to stay relevant with our clients as a service provider,
as a overall marketer, we still have to be competitive to keep
our job right within a, in the brand side corporate marketing.
(05:04):
So I think that's the main thingis that we, it's by necessity,
I'd like to say that's the bare minimum.
And then the the really most successful marketers are doing
it because they know it gives them an edge.
And it may only we may only be minutes ahead of the competitors
now, not days, hours, weeks, months or years.
It's a really fast game of escalation.
Yeah. And I think for most of us too
(05:24):
that are specifically in AB2B marketing space work the
guardians for our clients, right, we're the ones that are
making sure that their business has a presence online.
We're the ones that make sure that their business has a
presence that stays online and stays competitive and profitable
and all of those things. And the second that we're not
doing our job and staying up on tech, it's a downward spiral for
(05:45):
them. And then, of course, the
marketing budget is the first thing that gets cut if that
happens. So yeah, it definitely is
survival, plus looking out for everybody's best interests.
Correct. 100% agree. One of the things you talked
about with the terms of AI too, is you talked about it being a
force multiplier. What does that look like in real
life for businesses trying to navigate this change?
(06:05):
So force multiplier. I'll give you a couple examples.
One, I think that term came out of the SLESLEC event we were
both attending is the example I gave there and I'll give here is
the org chart. The new org chart will have, you
know, your marketing team, let'ssay as a subset of the overall
organization and within marketing, let's see of a five
person marketing team, each one of them over time.
(06:28):
I think this is just an idea I saw from a forward thinking CMO
Chief Marketing Officer is that each employee has three to five
bots under them that are part ofthe team and the org chart.
So they're taken seriously. And I would say given some, you
know, accountability to get somethings done and you don't have
the negotiation for increases inpay and all those HR things, but
(06:51):
you can have output. And and this is the interim
between today's bots and tomorrow's fully agentic, fully
autonomous, you know, beings that go do things for you on a
regular. I would caution against that.
And this is another conversation.
But right now, the best use of AI is there's a human touch
point at every key element. Because this was discussed in
(07:12):
the session we met, it becomes this, this exponential field of
Fluvia that, you know, like a Del river delta that just one
mistake could put you over here way off course or way over here.
So every little correction matters.
So you need to have individual humans looking at each touch
point to make sure that this stuff is still on track.
It's not hallucinating, it's learning, it's getting better,
(07:33):
not Dumber or totally racist or whatever the issue is.
So, so I think we have years before agentic.
We can say that next year we'll have a better idea of what
agentic is and what it looks like.
But for now, we're still kind oftripping over our own bots, you
know, making potentially costly errors.
So there's still a lot more training to do, but I could say
(07:53):
if we look back five years from now and say, remember bots,
those were quaint. And now everything's agentic.
It's you know, it's shopping foryou doing everything except it's
kind of be kind of like the movie Wally, the Disney Pixar
film where people are just in chairs and they don't move and
they kind of get fat and lose their bone structure because AI
will do everything for us. So again, when you talk about a
(08:13):
career, you and I, Jerry may be out of a job in five years.
And so I'm planning for that five year retirement, maybe out
of necessity. But the the other part is that
if you're in a blue collar worldof HVAC electrician, you know
that the crafts you're pretty, you're pretty bulletproof for
the time being until robots get that good at it.
And I don't think you're ever I think the if you're a tile
(08:34):
person or doing wall board and roofing like you're, you're
pretty safe. And I have no problem if my kids
want to go into trade craft, it may be safer career wise, But
but be that as I may, I think weare all going to see
radicalization. So back to the force
multiplayer. It could look at your role could
be managing four or five bots. The other multiplier, just like
I mentioned with me earlier, is I'll give an example of a client
(08:57):
that I I advise that are my clients create FAQs as a SEO
strategy and as a useful strategy to help educate
potential buyers on common questions.
Makes sense. It's really good AI fodder.
AI overviews like pulling from FAQs.
They typically rank well on their own, but I was able to
create an FAQ using clod that I used my clients website to
(09:18):
answer the questions and their voice without a pro version, you
know, no premium version required to do this.
And then obviously with cloud you can also upload documents.
So I can upload say their style guide or some other information.
And I was able in 10 minutes to,you know, from the time I
started the prompt till the timeI emailed them the finished
document. A really solid FAQ.
(09:38):
And now there is some proofing stage.
I sent it in the last week so we'll see how accurate it is.
But a year ago I was sending helping create blogs and other
content that were hot garbage. They were complete
hallucinations. I was pulling from old data and
not directly from the websites you asked them to pull from,
because they couldn't do that a year ago and they couldn't do it
six months ago. So the things are evolving
(09:59):
radically. And so now forced multipliers in
my old agency Anvil, I would have charged them probably $2000
for that, for that FAQ, maybe more.
And it would have taken 8 to 15 hours or whatever.
And it took me, you know, all back and forth under 30 minutes.
And you know, I charge them wellunder $1000 for it.
(10:20):
So the value is still there and they can help, but help guide me
is that good stuff. So force multiplier, I now am
able to create content that would have taken two to three
people and you know, 5 to 10 times longer.
So that's my example and you cango on and on.
Different stages of creating content, editing, programming,
producing, reporting, all of these things can be dramatically
(10:41):
streamlined as a multiplier. It does sound like for us as we
stand right now, AI could potentially be the silver
bullet, right? But I do think there is a lot of
value to that comes out of honing the skill set around how
to use AI. That's something that a lot of
people are just now getting started with and you and I are
probably somewhat light years ahead of them.
So as long as we stay ahead of the curve just a little bit, it
(11:04):
seems like we have a chance to evolve our skill sets as well,
along with technology. Yeah, 100%.
And so, you know, I think that so there's a silver bullet not
to lead the witness, but it's not it is not perfect because
there is still the need for human interaction.
And I'll tell you this, I just had lunch yesterday with a
(11:25):
friend of mine that was 15 to 18years in the coffee industry,
went from knowing nothing about coffee to become the top
salesman in history for this local coffee company here in
Portland. And then he got burned eyes like
I'm done with coffee. And then he went in to do the
financial services thing, you know, to become a financial
advisor. He gave that a year.
He's like, this is not for me. I don't, you know, if you for a
lot of reasons, it wasn't a goodfit for him.
(11:46):
Then he went into the cigar business.
This guy begged him to come on board, helped take this retail
cigar store to the next level and he did it.
And, and instead of 15 years, a year and a half later, he's
like, I've, I've maximized this.I need to go to my next thing.
And his, the whole thing is I need to keep learning new
things. He said, the one thing that I've
got that AI doesn't is the ability to create a connection
with another human. And he's very, very good at it.
(12:08):
And so he can learn a whole new business, whole new set of
products very quickly and talk about it like he's a native.
But he it's the that's secondaryto his connection with say you
in a very short amount of time that AI cannot.
We might change our I might eat my words in two to three years
where we suddenly we have been so full that we fall in love
with a bot. Right.
(12:29):
But I've never talked that much on a on a phone with somebody or
a video conference where I'm like, Oh my God.
But you know, her is a movie andit's and it's probably not going
to be fiction for much longer. My point is that that it's a
silver bullet in a lot of ways, but it will not replace the blue
collar, whatever shape that is. And then that human high level
relationship stuff, it can definitely assist.
(12:50):
It can be a force multiplier by taking somebody doesn't know
you, building a basic report andthen scheduling a meeting.
And then first time you talk to them, they've already been
through 70% of the research and conversations and you're closing
that deal. But you still need that human
for complex and larger ticket items and senior living, senior
care. You need humans to know this is
(13:11):
your family you're talking about.
There will be that that need to have humans involved.
Absolutely, absolutely. It's interesting too, because I
think it's the first time in history where we're seeing some
of the top paying jobs now be atrisk because of technology.
You know, you've got anesthesiologist, for example,
who's one of the highest paid salary in the country, I
believe. And that's a job that
(13:32):
potentially in a couple of yearsAI could be doing without any
intervention from a human. So it's kind of a scary time for
people who are highly specialized.
Yeah, yeah. Makes sense?
Now, just talking about SEO, it's obviously changing rapidly
now that we're seeing so much search volume happening on the
language learning model platforms like ChatGPT.
Some say it's dead, Google's dying.
(13:54):
What's your perception on where it's heading?
So, you know, I've heard, you know, the Google's dying or SEO
is dead for 15 years mostly SEO is dead 15 years ago, 10 years
ago. But I think the Google, Google
dying is there's a part of it's true.
It's not like print and it's notlike vinyl that is making a
comeback for specific reasons and nostalgia.
(14:16):
It's that Google will evolve as AI evolves and as human behavior
evolves. They will always play a key
role. I don't think they will be
obsolete like Polaroid and Kodakand so forth.
I could be wrong, but I think that they are a little too
paranoid for that. But our behavior is changing and
I think their role will change in search.
And right now that role is they are providing that AI like
(14:39):
experience with the AI overviews.
That means I don't have to go toperplexity or somewhere else if
I don't want to. It's all in the the same
interface I'm used to. And they're citing the sources
on the side. It's getting better, the data's
far better. So now that means that marketers
need to figure out about, you know, AI optimization, GGAI,
whatever you want to call it foroptimizing for these AI
(15:01):
overviews or the summaries. And so there are a couple
different strategy and tactics I've seen.
But the cool, the good news is for people that are selling SEO
or for client clients or brands panicking about it is the
fundamentals will still work with AIO because what's
happening is AI is just summarizing and synthesizing a
(15:21):
variety of sources and giving you the best.
That's almost exactly what Google's been doing for 20
something years. So the major difference is it's
in a little bit different delivery and you're not seeing
the clicks because you're not getting as many clicks because
they're getting what they need from the AI overview answer.
However, what that does mean in my mind is that if, if we're now
70% of the way through the buying process, one or more by
(15:44):
the time we go to a website, if that's 70 today, it'll be 90
tomorrow, right in the future, future.
So you need to make sure you're creating really high quality
content that's unique to your brand that fills the AI
appetite. And then those sources, those
some citations will come back toyou and you'll be getting highly
qualified. So traffic will go down and
(16:05):
conversion rates should go way, way, way up as you're getting
fewer, highly more qualified traffic, whether it's leads
inquiries for or applications for to apply to a home,
etcetera. And so the kind of content
that's working is anything unique.
So transcribing webinars, podcast like we're doing here is
(16:26):
good writing original articles that are not AI sourced so that
they add to the opportunity. No others will steal from your
bucket, but it's your bucket andyou're going to get citations
and perhaps over time actually compensation.
The other way is, you know, it'smore about conversations now
than it is about content. So what are the conversations on
Reddit and Cora and other industry specific forums and
(16:48):
where are where are you playing in that?
Other things like press releasesare making a little bit of a
comeback in AI and so are listicles.
Something we used back in the day like top ten this top 20
that best places near me is creating that content, getting
in on the existing content, helping create the future best
(17:10):
of content and being a part of that conversation.
All that seems to be feeding, you know, the AI engine.
The paid side of things, you seepaid media becoming fully
automated. So I honestly, I might be more
concerned about paid search thanI am about SEO because where,
(17:30):
you know, will Google give up all that revenue willingly?
No. So they're going to try and
figure out ways to integrate paid, you know, sponsored ads
into the AI overviews. It's a matter of time.
And I haven't even read about. I'm just assuming that's going
to happen. And then, and I think the model
may have to change from from Click to view back to the old
days. So you're viewing, you would
(17:50):
charge based on how many people viewed that content in the AI
overview. But that you know, then how do
you measure that, right? So the clicks are easier to
measure, more absolute. So volume will be decreasing
automatically as AI takes over. They'll find new ways to
monetize the AI over AI overviews, as I mentioned.
And then to your point, yes, automation will be increasingly
(18:10):
accepted as a standard like performance Max.
But I will say that and this is old information like 815 years
ago, but when we were competing manually against double click
and other large bid management tools that were using machine
learning and early AI, we were outperforming almost every time.
But that AI, even AI from four months ago can't compete with AI
(18:32):
today. So if it's more than a year old,
it's irrelevant effectively. So my my assessment is not as
relevant, but what I would say is AI in theory kind of has to
be better than a human, but we could get a bunch of paid media
experts around say, where the human part matters.
But I'm not enough of an expert.I've hired them.
I haven't been one of them is what exactly the human element
(18:54):
is so is most important for beyond the relationship on the
account side, right? Is what?
What can a human do that AI can't do as good or better?
And I think that's that would bea question I'd post to the paid
media experts because I'm not 100% sure if it's like SEO.
It would be. You have to weed through all the
content that AI generates because it will generate errant
(19:14):
keywords, you know, meta tag recommendations like it's
totally not there. It's it'll say for somebody
launching a business doesn't know AI and plugs in, doesn't
know SEO and uses AI to, they'llget maybe 70 to 80% of the way
there. So I think humans will be the
last mile, that last 20%. And the question is, does that
20% create 80% of the value? That's going to be the statement
(19:37):
that we have to prove as marketers on the paid side in.
Particular, yeah, I mean, if we look at senior living, we look
at how much the market's growing, how many new
communities there are coming up,how many older adults are
entering the market. I mean, everybody's kind of
vying for the same business. So I think that little 1-2
percent, 5% increase that somebody can generate could be
(19:57):
the difference, you know, between somebody getting a lead
and somebody not getting the lead.
I know we talked a little bit of.
Last time about your personal limit on employee size and you
said 25 employees or less was kind of like the the magic
number for you. I think even for senior living
marketers trying not to grow toolarge.
I mean, what advice would you give to to agency owners or to
(20:19):
small marketing teams? Yeah.
So what I would say is my numberis actually lower than that.
It's, it's actually Sweet 16 andI've been a part of 3 or 4
agencies that cross that threshold four or five times,
right? We, you know, we did this and I
remember the first time we went from 12 to to 25, then to 42
(20:41):
back in the mid 699, mid 90s like at employee 17.
I'm like, who are these people? You know, and by when I left and
they were actually, they were ontheir way to 40.
They were at like 30 something. And I was like, I'm not
interested anymore. And I went downstairs and there
were six people and I got to 18 at peak and I was like, this is
losing interest. Then I did it again in 99 where
(21:03):
we went from zero to 19 people in the first year as a startup
agency. 99 two thousand. It was the next day this I came
back from a vacation, employed 17, walked in with a birthday
cake and I'm like, who are you? Like thank you.
This, you know, very beautiful woman that I was like, is this
like a joke? But again, then I go on to work
(21:25):
the next couple weeks. I was like, I don't feel like I
know these people. Like it just had a dilution
effect. So when I launched Anvil in
2000, I told my team we are never going to be originally was
going to be 8. And then we lost Discovery
Channel because I said you're only eight people would never
hire you. And I was like, OK, 16.
That's it. So I built our space 1516 years
ago first for no more than 16 people.
(21:46):
And I said, if we ever find morethan 16 brilliant people, I'll
deal with that when I get there and get guess what, at one point
we're at 17, but it wasn't 16. It was not even 16 brilliant
people. And I rolled a couple people
out, right. So I just think it's hard.
So to your question about like in house marketing teams can be
much smaller in, in the senior living environment, like four or
five people, I would say in a big organization, honestly.
(22:08):
But with AI and with the kind ofoutsourced standard of
offshoring near shoring freelance contractors.
What I'm seeing, and I tend to agree with this through my next
Northwest network here in, in Oregon and beyond, is that
companies that were 30 to 50 employees are now 10 to 20
employees. And they're flexing up with
humans and AI to meet those, thecapacity.
(22:30):
So they lower their risk and their burn rate.
And then they have been known aslarger.
So they're still seen as larger.So they don't have the problem I
did when I was too small. And I don't think the brands
look at total headcount anymore like they used to.
I think it's more like, do you have the capacity or ability?
They don't expect these agenciesto be able to carry the overhead
that they used to because it's just not, it's not even prudent,
frankly. So I think that's the new
(22:51):
normal. I think is, is that honestly,
you know, the 22 years I ran an agency, we averaged probably,
you know, at the peak we were closer to 14.
At the lower end we were, you know, 11 or 12.
And that was, I was loving that size, but I, I was willing to go
larger if we could just find. And I, by the time I sold, I was
like, I'm definitely would neverwant to justify it.
(23:13):
And when I sold and we became almost 40 employees overnight, I
was like, this is definitely notwhat I want, right?
So I've only been validated. I've never been proven wrong.
There are some exceptional companies that have more than 16
people, but there are exceptionsto a rule that I've found has
been true for over 20. In terms of skill sets too, I
mean the traditional agency model, you see everybody's
(23:33):
siloed. Like there's the SEO team, the
social media team, the ads team.In this new day and age of AI,
are these skill sets all couraging together?
Are we looking for team members who who are more versatile?
So what I would say I started out, you know, and searched so
early that there was no structure, there were no
(23:54):
classes, there were no, you know, conferences.
There was no nothing in 96. So when I built start building
my teams back then in 97, I started building a teen 98 and
then from scratch in 99. And then when I started in
really full time and late, it was 3 after an e-mail marketing
startup. I was everybody what owned each,
(24:15):
each one person owned an accountand each person would own half a
dozen to a dozen accounts. And the reason I originally did
that was everybody needed to be a generalist.
And it wasn't that hard to master.
You knew the fundamentals. Keep in mind Google ads didn't
come around till 2002. It was brand new.
So my team understood the basicsand clients weren't that
sophisticated and it was good enough.
(24:35):
And then they knew SEO enough tobe dangerous and that again,
clients weren't that sophisticated.
So they they really understood kind of the whole thing.
And then I grew them and you know, from 2003 to 2012 and I
didn't realize it probably five years too late that we were not
aging properly and and growing the structure, right?
(24:56):
Which is, and this is more aboutunique ability and strengths and
everybody has a superpower. I did not map people's
strengths, but I saw it horrifically backfire when I
forced everybody needs to do everything.
So my best future account peoplewere great with clients, love
them and the clients are more forgiving that they weren't good
at getting things done on time or to a certain standard.
(25:16):
But again, my clients were getting smarter everyday about
this stuff. And then my practitioners really
didn't want to talk to the clients.
His clients were getting in my way.
Can you make sure the client doesn't talk to me?
I'm like, you kind of have to dothat.
So it finally occurred to me in a perfect storm where being AEO
member, this entrepreneurs organization where I had this
guy talk about freak factor and fly your freak flag.
Figure out what you do best and just do that.
(25:37):
And I realized I need to bifurcate.
If you're an account person, you're a high end path people
person and you build trust quickly and people love you and
you're all about taking care of them.
Unfortunately, those people do not promote well into a manager
role. Like your best sales people
become poor managers, sales managers.
So be careful. And then the dual track is or
you become a specialist right inSEOPPC, whatever.
(25:58):
And I definitely had a strong bifurcation.
You're either SEO, you're PPC and by PPCI mean just digital
ads because it's a different skill set.
So whether you're Facebook, Google, doesn't matter.
My team did all ads, ADS and then the the SEO team and the
accounting would do organic social or whatever.
So there's the organic kind of the PR track and the ad track.
And I found that that specialization worked
(26:20):
exceedingly well. I've had maybe two people out of
100 or more people that I've worked for me over the years,
maybe more that actually could do either side well and
interchangeably. But that's literally one or two
out of over 100 people, one percenters.
So you really, you really shoulddo one thing really well instead
of half assing everything. That's a challenge of being a
(26:42):
freelancer. I have freelancers.
I still only recruit freelancersdo specific roles so that I'm
still following that practicum of keeping people in their
special place. And what do you recommend for
senior living providers that maybe you're looking to
outsource their marketing? Would you recommend that they go
with a larger agency if it's a regional or national provider?
(27:03):
Or do you think they should staywith a lean team that's maybe
more agile and not at risk? I I feel like a bloated company
is more at risk of of having to downsize at some point and maybe
dropping some services or quality of work.
I would loathe to work at or even worse own a large agency.
I think they are dying and the the profit model doesn't work
(27:24):
anymore. AI can replicate 30% of their
workforce. You know what I mean?
The force multiplier means you could be, you know, 20 to 40% of
your current size and do the same amount of work.
Also playing to people's strengths, the meeting where
they want to be meeting hybrid work instead of, you know,
forced in office. And I was a big in office guy.
I was really reticent to give upthis any remote hybrid anything
(27:47):
but but that's where it is and that's the reality and and
there's a lot of good can come of it.
I think you miss without being face to face in the same room,
there is a connectivity that is lost.
You cannot replace. You can try and mitigate it.
So I guess what I would say is I've worked at three large full
service agencies and we didn't do any one thing well and we
(28:08):
charged three times as much for the convenience of having one
invoice. That was pretty much what
clients were willing to pay a premium for.
You know, why, why do you go to a dealership for repairs instead
of a local mechanic? Some sort of promise, right?
And so you paid 2, you know, youpaid 30 to 50% more.
So I don't go to the dealership unless it's under warranty.
So that's how I feel about marketing.
(28:30):
I think the best use of if I'm ever going to be in a position
to hire an agency, it's going tobe lean and mean.
They may even not have the depthof experience in my industry,
although a little goes a long way, as long as I like their
thinking, their philosophy and their team.
Because at one point I didn't know any industry, right?
And then after 1200 clients, I know almost every industry at
(28:51):
least cocktail conversation wise.
And so you all I, I would walk my talk and give the smart
company a chance, but they they better be lean and mean.
So I know I'm getting the best price and I know that they are
already weathered. The hardest part that they don't
need to reduce staff. That means I'm going to lose my
account people or my team on their side.
That's expensive. And I when I had 100% turnover
for two years as I rebuilt my team, I lost clients left and
(29:13):
right. They didn't like change even
though I was upgrading the team.They'd rather have no change
than change for the better. OK, that was some of my clients.
The ones that stuck with me definitely benefited from
weathering it out in my apologies to them.
That was my bad for letting it get so bad before I had to blow
it up. So I would say that that you go
with lean and mean. And the other way I look at it
is there is full service or you know, multi service.
(29:36):
They can still be a small boutique.
And then there's the individual specialists and then they're,
you know, like boutique, even smaller boutiques, you know, you
know, 3 to 15 people versus 15 to 30 or whatever it is.
And then there's the freelancers.
So there's a benefit and drawback to each.
And I think what I look at is when I would go to a mid size
firm to get the most level of experience possible for
(29:59):
strategy. And then I would, that's all I
would hire them for or do a trial, three to six month trial
to see if they can do what I need at the price I need it.
And usually they, they can't, inmy experience, their overhead is
too high to make it work. So then you go down to the
specialist, you try that or you go straight down to the
freelancer. The downside with the
freelancers, if you have the budget, going to a boutique so
(30:19):
that there's somebody always able to work on your account
versus I'm on vacation or had a baby.
The freelance thing could be really deadly in times of crisis
unless that person is very experienced and has a back up
plan. So, but I see like coming from
the PR world, I don't think it makes sense to hire a big
bloated PR firm you hire unless it's just for the strategy.
Because literally you can have any AI develop a strategy that's
(30:43):
probably 80% dialed and get takeyou far enough and you can have
a very junior person implement it and get maybe 50 to 60% of
the value of pay, absolutely nothing other than the salary of
a very junior entry level. So I, I think the challenge is
the big expensive firms, the burst and Mart settlers, the
Wagner Etsums here in town, liketheir days are numbered in the,
in the way they do, they offer their pricing and their service
(31:05):
has to change. And so yes, I would go lean and
mean every time. But again, maybe not so lean to
individual freelancers because of the one person prop, but a
lean and mean smaller team that has enough people to get, you
know, 2, at least two, if not 3 layers of backup if, if
somebody's out or or otherwise distracted, so you can get an
answer and shit done. And I think that's the important
(31:27):
thing when I would look at, you know, size and shape.
You talked about, you said you'drather have double conversions
than double ad spend. Can you unpack that for me?
Yeah, I mean, so conversion rateoptimization is key.
So I just gave a presentation atDigital Summit in Denver about
conversion rate optimization. And you know, every, every
percent that you increase your conversion rates is exponential.
(31:52):
Meaning if I'm a 1% conversion rate on my leads to my senior
living center, if I'm going froma, let's say a 2% because that
even that's a little low, but let's say 2% and then I go to
3%, that's a 2530%. That could be massive, massive
revenue. So when I was at an e-commerce
retailer back in 2000 selling TV's and digital cameras, you
(32:14):
know, we only had a 1.5% conversion rate because people
would showroom, they would look at the website and then go to
the showroom. Back when that was saying now we
reverse showroom, right? We go look at it and then we go
buy it online. So at a 1.5%, the first thing I
did when I landed there as the marketing guy wasn't SEO, wasn't
PR, it was conversion rate optimization.
I had one of my friends, it's anexpert in user experience, he
looked at our checkout and our our clearance section and made
(32:37):
some minor changes and I think it was good for like 3 quarter
between 1/2 and three quarter percent increase.
So we went from 1 1/2 to two andtwo to two and a quarter.
And that was almost $2,000,000 by the end of the year because
it was a high volume website. And so, so I literally, I didn't
quite double the conversions, but I made a massive impact on
(32:57):
the bottom line. And, and before I then I went
and, and amped up the SEO and did some PR and things with
Tower Records, if that doesn't date me, but that was, and that
stuff worked, you know, giving away cameras to e-mail lists and
stuff. But again, I was once I had the
higher conversion rate, I knew Iwas maybe 90% of the way there.
And then we can continue to integrate like, you know, Amazon
(33:18):
does every second of every day for the last 20 years.
And when we look at senior living websites and we're
talking about conversions, why do most of them leak leads?
I would say there's a a handful of issues.
The 1st is when I come to the home page as a first time
visitor, does it speak to me? Do what?
Do they understand that I am looking because I am am IA
(33:40):
family member, am IA practitioner, a professional
looking for a quick referral. You know, who am I and does it
speak to me and does it does it separate those audiences and
segment them into a flow that's unique to what they need?
Because a professional does not care about the amenities like
they care about the care the family might care about the
amenities and not care about thecare level of care as much as
(34:02):
they should. So the example I gave and in
Denver was a a company that built crates for dogs and Catios
for cats. And the homepage spoke to both
audiences and throughout the experience and what the my the
firm that I work with Forex determined through the analytics
and a reverse lookup and heat mapping was it or you could just
ask any pet owner is that there's maybe no more than 20%
(34:24):
overlap between dog and cat lovers.
So what they did is they like bifurcated.
Do you love cats or dogs? I do have a cat or a dog.
And then everything was different after that.
And it like doubled the conversions because once you're
like, you're speaking to me and then you take me on a dog
journey. Like I am a cat guy.
Like my friend just had a dog orlike stinks and you're every
day, at every hour, you're picking shit up off the ground.
(34:46):
Like that's not for me. And so, you know, we just bought
an automated cat litter box. That's the craziest thing ever.
And we only update once every two weeks and it never smells.
It's magic and it's, it's almost$800 best money I've ever spent.
So my point is, and now I see their ads in my feet all the
time circling back real quick tosearch.
I think that there will, we'll continue to see ads in our daily
(35:07):
lives throughout, but it may notbe in the intentional section
search mode. We'll still see a more passive
consumption, I think on Instagram and socials and apps
and so forth. Hopefully answered that
question. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And because you've worked in so many other verticals, what do
you think senior living is missing that other industries
have figured out? I would say beyond user centered
(35:30):
design, meaning you don't designit based on what the CEO likes
or the VP of marketing likes colors and fonts.
You design it for the users, the, you know, the family, the
caregivers, the family members, the children, the aunts and
uncles, the sisters and brothers, the the medical
professionals and what do they care about?
What matters to them and design for them secondarily is
(35:51):
conversions on every page you make the ask.
I think the ask here, I'm probably not going to get the
conversion. And so I think that's what other
other industries do well, the other's personalization.
So utilizing some of these toolsare getting smarter and smarter,
including not just chat bots, but other dynamically generated
website content or e-mail content that my God, this speaks
to me. They know I'm in my fees, my
(36:12):
father's and mother in their 80sand they're resistant to going
into senior living. They think there's a stigma
there like hearing aids and whatever, whatever.
Oh, what are some of the messages I would need if I think
it's time, right? That's the kind of how I would
approach it is generating that content for those people based
on where not only they are, but where their parents are or the
their loved 1. And that's the important thing
(36:33):
is, you know, my dad had a minorstroke 5-6 years ago and I
thought I was going to have to put him in senior care.
I went through the whole processand he went and toured the
facilities like, no way. You're not getting in me.
I will never go into a place like this willingly.
And I was like noted. And so he literally willed
himself to recover his vocabulary and all he had
thankfully not really impact hismotor skills, but he had a
(36:55):
dragging foot that's gone. Like he literally did near
impossible just to avoid a senior living situation.
Like whatever it takes. He he at some point will end up
in some sort of care, but we allwill at some point if we're
lucky, I guess. But you know, that's the
important part is like what do Ido with a resistant, you know,
parent nearly in denial. So I think that's an example I'd
give. Yeah, I think there's such an
(37:17):
inversion because it's such a relationship focused, human
centered, focused industry. There's an aversion to
data-driven decision making. How could senior living
providers utilize that in a smarter, better way?
I mean, man, that's, you know, that's not $1,000,000 question,
it's a billion dollar question. I would say that make sure
(37:38):
you're mining all the data you're putting in a data lake in
your, you know, your pro GPT 4 or your, your clawed premium
account or whatever, and then asking the right questions to
unveil new ideas and new patterns that you wouldn't have
thought of on your own. Again, there's some things that
humans understand inherently that AI may not pick up, but AI
(38:01):
is really good at synthesizing data and they don't have the
bias that humans do unless it's it's programmed by a biased
human. Of course, we've learned.
But if you get my drift, I thinkit's really about capturing the
right data, analyzing it, synthesizing.
And then God forbid, the biggestfailure I've seen by a majority
of my clients is action, like acting on that insight instead
of just talking about it, thinking about going, oh, that's
(38:22):
interesting, but not actually making implementations, changes,
optimizations that make a difference on the website
throughout your conversation string across, you know, multi
Omni channel. You know, with AI as it is you,
there's no reason you shouldn't and be able to hit people with
resonating consistent messages. They don't have to be identical,
but it should be relevant to each of the form factors,
(38:43):
whether it's my phone, my computer on TVA print Mailer
that just came in today. Like these things all should be
resonant and personalized over time, like hyper personalized.
So it's like the creepy thing, like my, my wife picked up a, a
new bag for me for Father's Day,a ski bag.
And we were talking about it and, and all of a sudden I
(39:05):
started seeing luggage in my Instagram feed.
And I'm like, dude, that's crazy, right?
So that's where that's going. And it's, and it's unsettling as
a marketer, let alone a human tosee that.
But that is where it's absolutely going.
Awesome. Well, Ken, thank you so much.
This was such a great conversation.
I know our audience has got a ton out of this.
So where can our audience go to learn more about Anvil Unlimited
(39:26):
or connect with you directly? Sure, well thanks for having me.
This has been really fun. My day job where you can find me
as next northwest.org and Executive Director of that
organization. So if you're in the Pacific
Northwest and you're a marketer in the creative services, check
out our website. We got a lot of resources and
cool webinars with a lot of thismartech ad tech theme in the
(39:46):
webinars in particular that anybody can attend.
And then outside of that, related mostly to Anvil is my
Ken J Lewis website where I havemy articles, my speaking
engagements, press mentions. So we didn't have time, but we
know we talked a bit about thought leadership.
And I think that's that's a key part of driving AI optimization
is that new thought leadership content, speaking, writing and
(40:09):
pitching the media. So you can see a lot of examples
of Kendra lewis.com and and follow me through that website
as well. All right, all right, awesome.
As we wrap up today's episode, Iwant to extend a huge thank you
to you, Kent Lewis, for joining us and sharing your hard earned
insights from both the agency and advisory sides of marketing.
From how AI is reshaping our strategies to the deeper role
thought leadership plays in earning trust, Kent, your voice
(40:31):
brings clarity and practicality to a conversation the senior
living industry sorely needs. If you want to connect with Kent
or learn more about his work with Anvil Unlimited or as a
fractional CMO, we've included all of his links in the show
notes. As always, we hope you found
this episode insightful and inspiring.
Don't forget to subscribe to ourpodcast on your favorite
platform and stay tuned for moreepisodes where we continue to
(40:52):
explore the evolving world of senior care, covering everything
from innovative care models and leadership strategies to family
support, technology, and the future of aging.
Also, remember that From Leads to Leases isn't just an audio
experience. We're also a video podcast.
So if you want to see the video versions of our episodes, like
the one here with Kent, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube
or Spotify channels. I'm Jerry Vinci, CEO of CCR
(41:14):
growth. Thank you for joining us on From
Leads to Leases. And please like, subscribe and
share this episode with anyone who might find it useful.
I'm truly grateful for your timeand attention.
And until next time, lead with strategy and with heart.
Chat with you again soon. Thanks Cat.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to From
Leads to Leases. Are you ready to fill your rooms
(41:34):
faster and increase occupancy? Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn
about our Senior Growth Innovation Suite, a proven
system to generate highly qualified tour ready leads,
accelerate sales and reduce acquisition costs.
Let's connect and turn your challenges into opportunities.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com