August 13, 2025 • 35 mins
Summary
In this episode of From Leads to Leases, host Jerry Vinci speaks with Benjamin Ekstrom, Senior Vice President of IT at Sincere Senior Living, about the critical role of AI governance in the senior living industry. They discuss the importance of understanding the difference between automation and AI, the challenges of balancing innovation with compliance, and the need to modernize outdated technology infrastructure. Benjamin shares insights on managing IT support across generations, the role of robotics, and the impact of quantum computing on cybersecurity. The conversation emphasizes a people-first approach to technology and the potential for innovation to enhance employee retention in the healthcare space.
Learn More
- Connect with Benjamin Exstrom on LinkedIn
- Learn more about Sinceri Senior Living
Takeaways
- AI governance is more important than AI capability.
- Automation is a subset of AI, not the same.
- Balancing innovation with compliance is a major challenge.
- Tech is now a necessary capital investment.
- Managing IT support is often invisible labor.
- Robots can help fill workforce gaps but require oversight.
- There's a significant gap in mid-level IT talent.
- Quantum computing will revolutionize encryption methods.
- A people-first approach to tech is essential.
- Innovation can lead to improved employee retention.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to CCR Growth's - Senior LIving Business Podcast
01:38 Benjamin Ekstrom - Senior Living IT Expert
02:29 AI Governance: The New Frontier
03:58 Misconceptions Between Automation and AI
05:33 Dangers of Generative AI Tools in Senior Living
07:33 Managing IT Support in Senior Living
09:40 Integrating Tech for Staff and Residents
10:40 The Role of Robots in Modern Workplaces
12:01 Bridging the Generational Talent Gap
15:31 The Demand for IT Talent
18:38 Quantum Computing and Cybersecurity
20:35 The Value of Analog in a Digital World
22:08 Tech Adoption: Early vs. Late
22:33 Human-Centric Technology Design
24:09 Proactive Planning for Future Tech
26:43 Innovation and Job Security
Keywords
AI governance, automation, senior living, technology infrastructure, cybersecurity, generational talent gap, smart technology, employee retention, digital transformation, healthcare compliance
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You know, I heard a quote the other day that AI is a new
organic. Everyone wants to have a piece
of it and everyone wants to use it.
My approach has been to treat itlike another software package.
AI is just a tool. Yeah, it's, it's got some pretty
awesome capabilities, but we really want to look at that, the
governance and the guardrails wecan put up.
What happens when AI hype meets real world healthcare
(00:23):
compliance? Today's guest isn't just
thinking about innovation. He's managing the risks,
rethinking governance and bringing strategy to the chaos
of emerging tech and senior living.
Welcome to From Leads to Leases,ACCR Growth podcast that helps
senior living providers transform their complex
challenges into opportunities. Listen in for stories from
(00:46):
industry leaders, innovative strategies and insights, and
with our expertise, learn how toincrease occupancy faster,
Guaranteed. Welcome back to another episode
from Leads to Leases, the podcast that dives deep into the
senior living and senior care industries, bringing you
insights, strategies, and stories from the experts at the
(01:07):
forefront of innovation, leadership, and care.
I'm your host, Jerry Vincey, CEOof CCR Growth, and for those of
you who don't know about us, CCRGrowth is a full service
marketing and growth agency exclusive to the senior living
industry. Through this podcast, I'm here
to guide you through the evolving landscape of senior
care, exploring the innovations,strategies, and leadership
insights that are shaping the future of the industry.
(01:29):
So whether you're a provider, a caregiver, or industry leader,
this show is here to help you make informed decisions and
create meaningful impact. All right.
Today's guest is Benjamin Ekstrom, Senior Vice President
of IT at Sincere Senior Living. With more than two decades of
leadership experience across healthcare, finance and
education and agriculture, Benjamin has become a go to
(01:52):
expert in digital transformation, cybersecurity
and IT governance. At Sincere, he overseas tech
operations across nearly 80 communities and is helping lead
the organization through a critical evolution integrating
AI with caution with care and strategic foresight.
So, Benjamin, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. Absolutely pretty impressive
(02:14):
when you read it off I. Mean this is going to be such a
great conversation. Everywhere I go all I hear about
is AI. So I want to get to the
underbelly of AI and see what wecan see from an IT perspective
on things here. One of the big aspects of AI is
AI governance. And so with your organization,
(02:35):
why is AI governance bigger, a bigger priority than AI
capability right now? You know, I heard a quote the
other day that AI is the new organic, right?
It's everywhere and now you you can't even buy Dorito that it's
saying organic someplace on the packaging, right.
And I think that's that's prettyindicative to where AI is at the
moment. It's it's everywhere.
(02:56):
Everyone wants to have a piece of it and everyone wants to use
it. But it's sincere.
And at least my approach has been to treat it like another
software package, right? Just just say, hey, AI is just a
tool. It's an IT tool.
Yeah, it's, it's got some prettyawesome capabilities.
And we've seen some really spectacular stuff coming out of
the generative arena. But it's a pretty broad
(03:17):
definition too. So when we're looking at how do
we manage the use and implementation of this, we
really want to look at the governance and the guardrails we
can put up either technologically, policy wise or
education and administratively to say, hey, this is how you can
use AI. We don't want you to not use it,
but we want you to be very mindful when you use it.
(03:38):
And I think the biggest aspect of that is education.
You, you got to be open communications with the
frontline who are like asking questions, can I do this?
Can I do that? And I think a large part of that
is we want to get to, yes, you can, but let's take these
precautions that we're not regretting that decision later.
One of the big misconceptions I think for a lot of people that
(04:01):
aren't necessarily tech savvy isI think they're confusing
automation with AI and I don't think they really recognize what
the difference is. How would you define the
difference between automation and AI?
Well, a automation is a form of AIAI is a big umbrella these
days, right? It starts out at the the basic
task automation. Chat bots are considered AI and
(04:23):
they're just a literal script that is being followed by the
computer. No thought, no generation there
at all. So automation does fall into the
umbrella, but it is not a thinking system, right?
So when we think generative AI, we want to assign that it can
make a decision based off of input it's been given.
(04:44):
And the decision might change just depending on how you
present that input. But the automation is going to
do task AB and C and then it's going to go back and do task AB
and C. It's not going to change or
deviate from what it was originally designed to do.
And that's the challenge with with these AIS is when you get
to that generative arena, something may, you know, comma
(05:04):
may be in the wrong spot. You'll get a completely a
different response from a promptyesterday or an update happened
on the background. And that prompt means something
very different because the AI learned and was trained a little
bit more. So it's it's the very automation
is awesome. We use it as much as possible.
It makes the boring stuff a lot easier to tolerate when you have
to deal with it. But at the same time, it's not
(05:26):
going to make that choice of do I want chocolate ice cream or
vanilla ice cream today? It's going to do whatever you
told it. And in a healthcare setting like
ours, what are the dangers of unrestricted access to
generative AI tools? I would think data leakage, you
know, privacy and security of patient data is, is always top
of mind when we're dealing with vulnerable populations who were
(05:48):
serving. But we really want to make sure
that any time we want to do analytics on data and use a
whether it's machine learning, you know, Watson was doing that
10 years ago when it would take medical records and give you a
working care plan. Whether we're doing that or if
we're using ChatGPT to write ourcare notes for us, we want to
(06:09):
make sure we're careful about what we feed it, right?
I've used ChatGPT to update a resume.
And I bet if you go in there andsaid, Hey, tell me a story about
an IT director at Sirius senior Living, you get a lot of the
information off my resume because it, it's not secret,
right? We don't want to put your Social
Security number in ChatGPT. That's not the way we use any
(06:30):
software logically, right? We definitely want to make sure
we're thinking about what information am I giving it?
Is this private? Is this classified?
Is this trade secrets at my level?
Is this an SEC violation, right?What, what does that look like?
And just make sure we're understanding that the data is
everywhere and we don't want to add to the to the chaos and leak
(06:52):
our personal information if we don't have to.
And what's such a large workforce?
What's sincerity? I mean, how do you educate while
balancing innovation with compliance?
I would say that's probably the hardest challenge because we're
seeing frontline workers who don't know how to use Microsoft
Teams and they're asking us, teach me how to use Teams.
And as an IT guy, it's like, well, just open it up and start
(07:14):
using it. Well, you can't do that with a
generative AI, right? You've got to have, well, this
is how you prompt it. This is how you do a good
prompt. This is how you do a bad prompt.
And so we've really been leaninginto a lot of the training that
these AI providers are giving uson prompt development and prompt
engineering. And asking the tough question is
like, is this going to fall in line with our HIPAA compliance?
(07:35):
Is this going to be part of our financial compliance?
How do we ensure that this chat bot or this chat generation is
not going to compromise us in some way that we don't want to
be? And then opening that door slow
to the to the generative model. And I think we started with
three versions of Copilot beforewe start rolling it out.
So we could say, how is this going to be used?
(07:55):
And is it beneficial first of all, and is it, you know, one of
the challenges to to securing it, making sure that we are
still a compliant organization when it comes to HIPAA and Phi?
I know too, the industry's definitely seen a little bit of
a tech infrastructure bottleneck, you know, because of
COVID. Now being post COVID, there's
(08:16):
still a lot of systems that are outdated.
I mean, copper lines, 1990s techin some of these facilities.
What are you seeing in terms of that?
Are we overcoming that bottleneck?
Are we still in the middle of it?
I think progress is slow and youhear in the tech arena like
everyone in South Korea has fiber to their house.
Well, South Korea is a lot smaller than the US and our
(08:39):
elbow room makes it difficult toget that high speed stuff going.
And then we have questions of who's going to control it and
who's going to update it. And same with a building, right?
Do you really want to invest in this building or are we going to
build a new building someplace? So there is a lot of dated, the
infrastructure out there, buildings that are 30 years old
(09:00):
and were state-of-the-art in the90s, you know, are dated now and
we can't update them anymore because they just didn't have
the base fundamentals to add Wi-Fi access points every 200
feet or you know, run fiber optic from floor 1 to floor 2.
Those take very specialized skills and very specialized
knowledge. Even those are getting harder to
(09:21):
find. If you got a guy who can run
fiber, you're you're doing good,right?
And I think we're, we're improving, but at the same time,
there's just so much to do that it's, it's going to be a slow.
Roll tech isn't really a nice tohave any more now it's like it's
a capital investment that peoplehave to make to stay
competitive. I mean, aside from just the the
competition factor that the guy down the street has it so we
(09:43):
need it, what are the other advantages or the reasons why
that it's no longer just a nice to have?
Well, I think it, I think it's aforce multiplier.
We see this going on in, in a lot of the more developed
countries that they're having population declines and
workforce is not necessarily sitting in a chair for 30 years
trying to do the same job or go watch and then retire.
(10:04):
People are moving from job to job.
So being able to capture that and replicate that and not lose
your institutional knowledge when you're your frontline
workers leave is pretty important.
And you know, in the old days, he sees pen and paper and you'd
have to read through all these file cabinets worth of notes if
you ever wanted to learn what the last guy did.
(10:25):
Now you can put that in copilot and say, hey, sunrise, just give
me the 10 of most important things I need to know today.
And so I think that transfer andimprovement of knowledge sharing
is just crucial to operating these days.
Add data. Oh man, the size of data is just
impossibly complicated to try and keep your head around
without a, some sort of technological tool to help you.
(10:48):
And I think we'll, we'll see that continue to grow size of
our data pool for that we're using, we're using a analytic
tool called Domo for analytics that we're trying to roll out
now. And just getting that in is
quite the effort. And then we think, OK, do we
want a year's worth of data or do we want the last 30 years
worth of data that we've been operating?
And where do we draw that line? If this is useful and this is
(11:10):
not useful and the technology can handle that, right?
We could, we could look at our analytics over the last 30
years. I don't know how useful the the
results would be though. And I'll rely on the analytic
guys who tell us that. But yeah, technology is
everywhere. You know we carry more
technology in our pocket than weuse to get to the moon, is the
famous going around. That's crazy, yeah.
(11:33):
Yeah, it's getting getting smaller and lighter and faster.
I think it's interesting too what you're saying about the
workforce too, because it's likewe either you know, we have to
do more with less or we have to maintain what we have with less.
If maintaining is the way to go,I don't know if we necessarily
need to do more than we're doing, but we're in an upside
down funnel. So we're going to continue to
see generation after generation,less and less people in the
(11:55):
workforce and and more and more older.
There are adults coming into this space.
I'm really curious how we're going to manage that, especially
with some of the tech infrastructure we have.
And then even if we improve thattech isn't the only solution, we
still have to have humans manning the ship.
Well, if you look at the statistics, my parents
generation are the largest consumers of technology right
(12:16):
now. Yeah, I'm in the Gen.
X range, but we have less technology than the people who
are going into our senior livingcommunities right now and want
less technology than the people who are there.
The connectivity and the the information at your fingertips,
it's just vitally important to us at this point.
I know it too. I mean, you guys serve everyone,
(12:36):
the staff, residents, the systems in the community.
I mean, it's like the invisible labor of tech support, right?
I mean, how does, how do you manage that from like the staff
devices to Roombas to smart TV's?
I mean, I can't even wrap my head around it.
Well, it goes back to the automation and the more we can
automate and AI is playing a bigrole in that right.
So if if I can handle, you know,password resets and new user
(13:00):
requests and new room requests with an AI bot that doesn't need
me to sit at a keyboard and typethe same information twice, the
better and then connecting the system.
So if you're already putting your information into our
customer relationship managementtool, we already have that
captured. Why would I ask you to fill out
three more forms that ask you for your name, date of birth and
(13:22):
Social Security number six more times.
Let's connect those tools on theback end, automate that remove
the cumbersome work so that whenyou're talking to the resident
intake manager, you know that they have your information, they
know who you are and they get toconnect with you rather than
have you sit there and fill out a stack of forms again.
So I think vital that people stay involved with people, but
(13:45):
we also need to catch the, the, the data on the back end, right?
And make sure that we have thosetools aligned with everything
else so that we're able to serveas best as we can without having
to say, hold on a SEC, let me golook that up, right?
Tech 2, if you've got the operational side of tech and
then you've got the resident facing support side of tech.
(14:06):
I mean, how does an organizationlike yours kind of way and
navigate that challenge of are we going to do something that's
benefit in the the staff who supports the residents or the
residents themselves? Yes, I mean everything we do to
benefit the workforce will hopefully add value to the to
the residents as well, right. So that's the approach and vice
versa, you know, rather than having to go down to the
(14:29):
concierge desk and have them find something for you on a map
and arrange a ride for you, can we just have an app on your
television that lets you do that, say, hey, I want to go to
the doctor's office today. I need a ride at 10 AM.
That's pretty simple technology that we could implement in a, in
a senior care facility. And we rely a lot on our vendors
for that support. I managed 6 people in my entire
(14:51):
organization, had like 80 communities.
It's always based on how can thevendors support us in this in
this effort and we rely on them pretty heavily for that
combination of technology, integration between this is for
the resident, this is for the staff, it's more like this is
for the operations overall. And hopefully everyone's a
little happier at the end of theday.
(15:12):
I've heard a lot of conversations too around robots
and there's questioning. Are these really useful?
Are they not useful? What is your position on them?
I know a lot of communities are using them to kind of fill the
FT gaps. Yeah.
But I know obviously they still require human guidance.
Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to buying my Optimus 3 when it
comes out from later this year. Right, We'll see how how that
(15:35):
turns out. Yeah, we from vacuuming a floor,
right. We could pay one fee to vacuum
our floors once a day, but or wecan pay the equivalent to have a
robot vacuuming all the floors in every level all day long
continuously for the same money or less.
(15:57):
Then having that person, you know, we can't take the person
out as we just talked about. We'd have to then maintain the
robots, right? You have to empty the the bags,
clean the brushes. I've got a little robot here in
my house that yeah, I used to spend 3 hours a day cleaning
floors. Now I spend an hour a week
fixing the robot to make sure itkeeps working right.
And there is that human technology interaction that must
(16:20):
happen in order to maintain what's there.
And just making sure, you know, a robot gets stuck every once in
a while. Those server robots, they do a
wonderful job, but they sometimes find an obstacle they
can't figure out how to get around and what's not there to
direct them. They're just going to sit there
and wait. So And your food's getting cold
so. As an IT leader too, I mean,
what do you, what do you think we can do to help fill
(16:44):
generational talent gaps and kind of upskill?
I I feel like there's a big gap.There is a big gap and we we see
this a lot. My team, like I said, I got 6-6
guys, six or seven guys. They start at two to three years
experience and then there's thisgiant gap to those of us who
have been around for 30 years. So I got three of the, of the
(17:05):
team that have been here for 30 years and the rest of them have
been here for less than 5. And that's their entire IT
experience. So that 5 to 30 years is a, is a
big part of the, where are thosepeople and, and can we get one
of them? And it's pretty competitive for
that level of, of skill and talent out there.
So we've approached it by havingthose guys like myself and and
(17:28):
my engineers that have been heredoing this for so long,
mentoring one-on-one with the teams that are just coming up
through the ranks and getting them to think, OK, that's how
you fix a printer. But how do you think about the
entire printing system as a whole and how would you design
this and how would you improve this?
And trying to get them out of that on just resetting passwords
today and helping users log in to how would I design this to be
(17:52):
better and how do I think about the system as a whole?
And that is a journey, certainlynot, not going to happen
overnight. And, and we realize that, but
hopefully by the time, you know,we're ready to hang up our hats
and move into my residence, one of my communities that I have a
staff that's educated and knowledgeable enough to take
over for me. And I think that's where a lot
(18:14):
of the technologies and leadership is in the technology
arena is educating the younger generations and not age wise.
You know I don't care about the age but the the skill gap is
build right? Is the systems the systems
thinking something that you feellike is just not happening now
with the younger entry level team members and you're just
(18:36):
kind of having to educate them or does that just come with with
age and experience It's. Kind of an epiphany you have
after about 10 years of it. It's like, oh hey, this is the
same problem I'm having over andover again.
Maybe it's not this is the problem.
Maybe something bigger outside of that.
And, and I think when we try andeducate people about think about
(18:57):
the system, not the not the the issue, we are trying to
accelerate that knowledge. You know, it took me 10 years of
banging my head against the walland fixing computers to learn,
hey, this is a system, not just a, not just a printer.
If I can get my staff to do thatin six years, that's a big step
ahead for them, their career andtheir ability.
(19:17):
So that's what we're trying to do.
I'll let you know in 10 years how that works out for me.
What do you think is the issue? Why is there such a gap in the
mid employment market? I mean, for it specifically, I
mean, where are all these peopleworking right now that there's
such a gap? Well, I think there's there's a
huge demand for the for it. And we've seen a little bit of
(19:38):
of pressure relief when like Facebook and Apple and Google
start rightsizing, you know, when they start letting go their
technical staff, those become available in the market.
But most of the guys who have that level of experience get a
really good paycheck and a really good job at these really
big tech companies. And there's always another big
(19:58):
tech companies starting up someplace, right?
So. I think it's, it's just really
competitive for that skill set and that education level and
then experience level there. So I, I don't think there's a
lack of people. I think it's just there's a
bountiful plenty of technology jobs out there that just need,
need that education experience. And if you're if you can't pay
(20:20):
the six figure salary for a guy who's been doing this for eight
years, you're probably not goingto get that guy.
Yeah, yeah. There's, there's plenty of job
opportunities right now for surein tech talking about
cybersecurity too. We're cybersecurity in a quantum
age now. Can you educate our audience
about what quantum computing is and how that's going to impact
(20:40):
the future of encryption? We can a little bit.
So I'm not the expert, but I do read a lot.
So right now we're A1 in zero kind of computing mentality,
right? It's either yes or no.
And so that's, that's the binarysystem that we've built up for
the last 7080 years, right. And quantum computing is more of
(21:04):
a state. You're either almost positive or
almost negative. So you can be in multiple states
at once. It adds a really interesting
dimension to the way we compute.And Microsoft and Google have
both released a chip this year that can do stateful computing
like quantum, as close to quantum as I've seen from
(21:25):
outside the the big IBM quantum computers out there.
And as they get smaller in technology and we add generative
AI to that, it's going to be pretty fast and pretty furious
how fast that generative AI can learn and adapt.
And it's exciting, but it's alsolike, oh, what does this mean
for security? Because in the past, you used to
(21:47):
have to worry about the NigerianPrince wanting to send you
$1,000,000. Next week, you're going to get a
phone call from your mother saying, hey, I need 20 bucks so
I can get home. And can I just get that out of
your Apple Pay, right? And it's going to sound like
your mom and she's going to knowa lot about you because hey, I
just discovered everything therewas in less than two minutes
based on the Internet. And it's, it's going to be
(22:08):
really hard to, to detect. You see that right now that even
in encryption, the speed at which quantum can break a 256
AES encryption is really fast. We have to rethink how
encryption is working to secure our data in transit.
And there are now quantum resistant encryption that are
(22:28):
being developed and worked on sothat we can we can combat that
next level of computer crime going on there.
I think computer crime's not going to stop, right?
It's a $3 billion a year industry.
There's if there's money there, people are going to flock to it.
I mean, it's at this point in time who has access to quantum
computing. I mean, should we be worried
about our standard security protocols right now or is this
(22:48):
like a future concern? I would say probably going to
start being a future concern in the next five years.
You know, that's how fast tech moves, right?
Five years ago we didn't have AIand now it's everywhere.
So when quantum actually gets tothe market and people learn how
to use it, you know, there's still that learning gap between,
you know, I know how to program in Python And C# and whatnot.
(23:10):
How do you program a quantum, right?
What does that look like? So there there is that, that
learning gap that I think will give us a little bit of relief
before that's figured out. But we have AI now to help us
with our coding. So that's gonna go even faster
now too. So I think, I think we've got 4,
maybe five years. We'll see how that that turns
(23:32):
out though. So last time we talked to you
were talking about going back tothe days of the mafia.
Why? What?
Some sensitive data might be going back to the paper and pen.
Right, yeah, if you can, if youronly concern is physical
security, that takes a lot of the burden off from that, from
that digital right. And the old tech was the way,
right. I'd rather someone put a post
(23:53):
and note with their password underneath their desk than use a
Microsoft Word document. That was that's one of my my
fear stories of the past is I had a user that kept all his
banking data and all his passwords on a Word document and
someone accessed his computer and downloaded all his files.
I was like only just use the post it note.
(24:13):
So that was that's where I learned that part.
I do think it's interesting though, because I feel like
there's a lot of areas where we're going to value those
analog approaches to things. You know, things that are
handwritten and human made are going to hold more value than
something that's generated, you know, through AI or digitally,
which is pretty interesting. Yeah, there's a big the the non
(24:36):
fungible tokens, the art that they use on those is generate
some interesting like financial revenue for people.
And I'm like, you're really paying for ones and zeros.
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty. But is it worth worth that much
money as opposed to like going and getting a Picasso or a Monet
or, you know, one of the old artists that put brush the
(24:57):
canvas right? Something you can see and smell
and experience. Yeah.
How do you see yourself in termsof tech adoption, in terms of
the curve? Where do you see yourself?
And you know why? I mean, I, I think like waiting
a little bit isn't always losing.
You're not always behind. I think it's probably smart,
especially given the role you play, to, to be a little bit
(25:19):
behind the curve. Yeah, there's, there's marketing
that actually cut the, the curveof adoption up and there's early
adopters, late adopters and thenall those guys in the middle.
I definitely don't aspire to be an early adopter.
I don't want to be first to market on adopting tech.
Sometimes it happens because there's just this is what I want
to use, right. So we mostly based tech
(25:42):
utilization from our user base. We, they say, hey, I need a tool
to help me do X and we say, well, OK, let's go look at and
see what tools there are. It's like, well, if we want to
future proof this a little bit, we could be an early adopter on
this new technology. You know, we'll consider it and
we'll, we'll, we'll definitely look at it and see if that's
worth doing. But most of the time being into
(26:02):
that mid to late stage adoption gives you the ability to look
back and say, Hey, what happenedover there when they tried this,
right? So you get to see how it's
working in the market before you, you, you try and throw it
on on your people. You learn a lot of lessons that
way. But again, to your, to your
point, we lose a little bit of that strategic advantage and
that initiative of being forced to market on something like, and
(26:25):
if that's a concern, maybe earlyadoption is, is the motto,
right? And I'm not opposed to early
adopters. I just don't want to be one of
them. Agreed.
I agreed a hundred 100,000 percent.
I can't. I won't be first in line.
I might be fifth in line but I want to see how the 1st 4 go
first before I dive in. Another phrase I was curious
about too is when it comes to tech implementation was a people
(26:47):
first mentality. When it comes to like robotics
and automation and AI, what doesthat mean and how is that
utilized? There's a, there's a phrase out
there, and I used this in, in the talk at the senior living
executive conference when I get my presentations called Human in
the loop. And a part of that is designing
your process, even if it's an AIprocess around the people who
(27:08):
are using it and experiencing itand not removing the person, but
giving them leverage, right? So they can do their job better
or faster or more of it often the case.
And but not not thinking that, hey, this has to be completely
automated. This has to be completely
robotic. I don't need people in this.
Well, we've known that robots require people know that AI
(27:31):
requires someone to sit to verify.
Are you hallucinating now or is that really something you can,
you can publish? So the, the person in the loop,
the, the human in the loop is always going to be essential.
Whatever we're relying on technology, whether that's just
quality assurance and quality checking to say, hey, is, is
what you're putting out what we actually want to be be saying.
(27:53):
And then we got to remember thatif everyone is using AI tools,
it's going to filter down to like the two or three top
runners. And so you're going to be
putting out the same product that I'm putting out that
someone else is putting out. And then there's really no
competitive advantage in there because you've lost that human
touch and that that personal connection that you could
(28:13):
otherwise get keeping the peopleand augmenting them.
I think it's pretty important tomake sure you're you're thinking
about the the person before you think about the.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. At the end of the day, for sure,
especially in this industry, is there anything that you're doing
proactively to plan for future moves in terms of tech and IT?
Lots of reading. Yeah.
(28:35):
Up on the keeping up on the industry as much as possible and
seeing what other people are doing, right.
So we were talking about supporting residents before.
They don't call my help desk. But at larger communities, you
know, 800 plus, which are probably 3 or 4 times larger
than most of our communities, they're providing an on site
(28:57):
like Freegeek service where they'll show up one day a month
and anyone can come and ask sometech questions and get help with
their technology. That's a great service that
involves A technician technologyand resident education where you
can bring up stuff like, hey, there's this new social
engineering out there where yourgrandson might call you saying
(29:17):
he's in jail and he needs bail money.
Being able to educate your, yourresidence is awesome.
So those are kind of what we're looking at and what we're moving
towards. I'm also really interested in
smart technology, creating that smart department of the future.
I think that's got a lot of potential for the senior living
environment. And I really want to keep my my
(29:38):
eyes and my ears open for any ofthat new and interesting
capabilities out there. I guess that Optimus robot in
the corner right here next to metyping away.
Do you see the smart apartment enhancing resident engagement
too, or do you think that's a totally separate item?
There's an interesting work on that where and and it goes back
to our AI conversation. We're getting residents engaged
(30:02):
with AI chat bots and it's improving their quality of life
because they have someone to talk to.
But what it's doing is it's removing that engagement with
their neighbors. So I see smart departments as
helpful. You know, if the lights come on
when you get up in the middle ofnight to go use the restroom,
that can help you prevent a fall, right?
(30:23):
If you're, you know, monitoring temperature and adjusting it
automatically rather than going and changing the thermostat,
that improves comfort. So we definitely look at those
things. We're looking at wearables all
the time. You know, would a smart watch
give us better data information for your care planning and other
technologies like that, that that are just, you know,
(30:46):
beneficial for anyone who wants to use it?
So we definitely keep an eye on those.
And I think smart departments would be great, but we always
have to think about what's the infrastructure look like can
support that. And that's always the first
challenge, is examining the infrastructure and thinking how
would we apply smart locks and smart cameras and all that other
(31:07):
stuff. My last question for you too, I,
I think there's a lot of people who assume or are fearful that
innovation just means that, you know, job security is at risk,
you know, less, less people needed, right, because
technology is taking care of more of, of the heavy lifting
for them. I think there's probably a way
that innovation and employee retention can coexist,
(31:28):
especially in the healthcare space.
I mean, what, what are your thoughts on that?
Is there? Is there a way that technology
and innovation can actually improve employee retention?
I think so. You know, I think that jobs will
change, right? We don't, we don't have people
driving nails with hammers anymore.
There's just no point to that. But we still need people that
(31:51):
can design a structure and understand how it all fits
together and making sure that everything flows the way it
needs to so that we have good productivity at the end of the
day. And no matter which technology
you add or which job you're, you're working with, they'll be
using technology to improve that.
The, the analogy I really like is, you know, think about in the
(32:14):
early 80s before pneumatic hammers were there, how many
people were sitting there framing and how many framers do
we have out there today? Those pneumatic guns gave 1000
to one work effort. So those jobs, yes, they went
away from the technology arena or from the the construction
arena, but other jobs opened up in the technology arena, right?
(32:36):
We now need people who can assemble pneumatic guns, who can
repair pneumatic guns, who can fix compressors, who can do all
these other jobs that are neededfor that new industry.
And I think technology is the same way and there is a barrier
to entry. I think that is our biggest
challenge is that if you don't understand tech and you're
interested in understanding tech, you're going to have a
(32:57):
much harder time in the future. I think if everyone's going to
be at the point where they need to understand at least the most
basic tech information in order to operate in in any job that
they're doing. And we see that McDonald's has
robotic French fry cooks now, right?
Do you know how to opt the robotic French fry cook?
(33:19):
I've seen a few that they don't even have registers anymore.
They just have the kiosks, you know, So it's kind of crazy.
Well, thank you, Benjamin. Thank you so much for such a
great conversation. Where can our audience go to
learn more about Sincere Senior Living or connect with you?
Yeah, they can always go to our,our web page
sincereseniorliving.com that hasall the resident information on
(33:39):
there and a little bit more about the leadership team and,
and the sincere corporate environment.
And we always like to say, you know, sincere means like family.
So that's, that's kind of our approach even in tech.
You know, if I'm helping you reset your password, I'm helping
like you're my dad or my, my brother, not not some stranger
out there there. So that's the best place to find
it. You can find me on LinkedIn.
Not a big talker but usually respond.
(34:02):
Yeah, awesome. All right.
Well, as we wrap up today's episode, I want to extend a huge
thank you to you, Benjamin Ekstrom, for joining us and
offering a clear eyed strategic view of technology's role in
senior living. From managing AI, governance,
and cybersecurity threats to leading digital transformation
across dozens of communities, Benjamin's work shows us that
true innovation requires intention, not just excitement.
(34:25):
So if you want to connect with Benjamin or learn more about his
work at Sincere Senior Living, we've included his LinkedIn
profile as well as the website link in the show notes.
As always, we hope you found this episode insightful and
inspiring. Don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast on your favorite platform and stay tuned for more
episodes where we continue to explore the evolving world of
senior care, covering everythingfrom innovative carrier models
(34:47):
and leadership strategies to family support technology in the
future of aging. And remember that From Leads to
Leases isn't just an audio experience.
We're also a video podcast. So if you want to see the video
versions of our episodes, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube
or Spotify channels. I'm Jerry Vincey, CEO of CCR
growth. Thank you for joining us on From
Leads to Leases and please like,subscribe and share this episode
(35:09):
with anyone whom I find it useful.
I'm truly grateful for your timeand attention.
And until next time, lead with strategy and with heart.
Chat with you again soon. Thanks, Benjamin.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to From
Leads to Leases. Are you ready to fill your rooms
faster and increase occupancy? Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn
about our Senior Growth Innovation Suite, a proven
(35:31):
system to generate highly qualified tour ready leads,
accelerate sales and reduce acquisition costs.
Let's connect and turn your challenges into opportunities.
See you next time.
You know, I heard a quote the other day that AI is a new
organic. Everyone wants to have a piece
of it and everyone wants to use it.
My approach has been to treat itlike another software package.
AI is just a tool. Yeah, it's, it's got some pretty
awesome capabilities, but we really want to look at that, the
governance and the guardrails wecan put up.
What happens when AI hype meets real world healthcare
(00:23):
compliance? Today's guest isn't just
thinking about innovation. He's managing the risks,
rethinking governance and bringing strategy to the chaos
of emerging tech and senior living.
Welcome to From Leads to Leases,ACCR Growth podcast that helps
senior living providers transform their complex
challenges into opportunities. Listen in for stories from
(00:46):
industry leaders, innovative strategies and insights, and
with our expertise, learn how toincrease occupancy faster,
Guaranteed. Welcome back to another episode
from Leads to Leases, the podcast that dives deep into the
senior living and senior care industries, bringing you
insights, strategies, and stories from the experts at the
(01:07):
forefront of innovation, leadership, and care.
I'm your host, Jerry Vincey, CEOof CCR Growth, and for those of
you who don't know about us, CCRGrowth is a full service
marketing and growth agency exclusive to the senior living
industry. Through this podcast, I'm here
to guide you through the evolving landscape of senior
care, exploring the innovations,strategies, and leadership
insights that are shaping the future of the industry.
(01:29):
So whether you're a provider, a caregiver, or industry leader,
this show is here to help you make informed decisions and
create meaningful impact. All right.
Today's guest is Benjamin Ekstrom, Senior Vice President
of IT at Sincere Senior Living. With more than two decades of
leadership experience across healthcare, finance and
education and agriculture, Benjamin has become a go to
(01:52):
expert in digital transformation, cybersecurity
and IT governance. At Sincere, he overseas tech
operations across nearly 80 communities and is helping lead
the organization through a critical evolution integrating
AI with caution with care and strategic foresight.
So, Benjamin, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. Absolutely pretty impressive
(02:14):
when you read it off I. Mean this is going to be such a
great conversation. Everywhere I go all I hear about
is AI. So I want to get to the
underbelly of AI and see what wecan see from an IT perspective
on things here. One of the big aspects of AI is
AI governance. And so with your organization,
(02:35):
why is AI governance bigger, a bigger priority than AI
capability right now? You know, I heard a quote the
other day that AI is the new organic, right?
It's everywhere and now you you can't even buy Dorito that it's
saying organic someplace on the packaging, right.
And I think that's that's prettyindicative to where AI is at the
moment. It's it's everywhere.
(02:56):
Everyone wants to have a piece of it and everyone wants to use
it. But it's sincere.
And at least my approach has been to treat it like another
software package, right? Just just say, hey, AI is just a
tool. It's an IT tool.
Yeah, it's, it's got some prettyawesome capabilities.
And we've seen some really spectacular stuff coming out of
the generative arena. But it's a pretty broad
(03:17):
definition too. So when we're looking at how do
we manage the use and implementation of this, we
really want to look at the governance and the guardrails we
can put up either technologically, policy wise or
education and administratively to say, hey, this is how you can
use AI. We don't want you to not use it,
but we want you to be very mindful when you use it.
(03:38):
And I think the biggest aspect of that is education.
You, you got to be open communications with the
frontline who are like asking questions, can I do this?
Can I do that? And I think a large part of that
is we want to get to, yes, you can, but let's take these
precautions that we're not regretting that decision later.
One of the big misconceptions I think for a lot of people that
(04:01):
aren't necessarily tech savvy isI think they're confusing
automation with AI and I don't think they really recognize what
the difference is. How would you define the
difference between automation and AI?
Well, a automation is a form of AIAI is a big umbrella these
days, right? It starts out at the the basic
task automation. Chat bots are considered AI and
(04:23):
they're just a literal script that is being followed by the
computer. No thought, no generation there
at all. So automation does fall into the
umbrella, but it is not a thinking system, right?
So when we think generative AI, we want to assign that it can
make a decision based off of input it's been given.
(04:44):
And the decision might change just depending on how you
present that input. But the automation is going to
do task AB and C and then it's going to go back and do task AB
and C. It's not going to change or
deviate from what it was originally designed to do.
And that's the challenge with with these AIS is when you get
to that generative arena, something may, you know, comma
(05:04):
may be in the wrong spot. You'll get a completely a
different response from a promptyesterday or an update happened
on the background. And that prompt means something
very different because the AI learned and was trained a little
bit more. So it's it's the very automation
is awesome. We use it as much as possible.
It makes the boring stuff a lot easier to tolerate when you have
to deal with it. But at the same time, it's not
(05:26):
going to make that choice of do I want chocolate ice cream or
vanilla ice cream today? It's going to do whatever you
told it. And in a healthcare setting like
ours, what are the dangers of unrestricted access to
generative AI tools? I would think data leakage, you
know, privacy and security of patient data is, is always top
of mind when we're dealing with vulnerable populations who were
(05:48):
serving. But we really want to make sure
that any time we want to do analytics on data and use a
whether it's machine learning, you know, Watson was doing that
10 years ago when it would take medical records and give you a
working care plan. Whether we're doing that or if
we're using ChatGPT to write ourcare notes for us, we want to
(06:09):
make sure we're careful about what we feed it, right?
I've used ChatGPT to update a resume.
And I bet if you go in there andsaid, Hey, tell me a story about
an IT director at Sirius senior Living, you get a lot of the
information off my resume because it, it's not secret,
right? We don't want to put your Social
Security number in ChatGPT. That's not the way we use any
(06:30):
software logically, right? We definitely want to make sure
we're thinking about what information am I giving it?
Is this private? Is this classified?
Is this trade secrets at my level?
Is this an SEC violation, right?What, what does that look like?
And just make sure we're understanding that the data is
everywhere and we don't want to add to the to the chaos and leak
(06:52):
our personal information if we don't have to.
And what's such a large workforce?
What's sincerity? I mean, how do you educate while
balancing innovation with compliance?
I would say that's probably the hardest challenge because we're
seeing frontline workers who don't know how to use Microsoft
Teams and they're asking us, teach me how to use Teams.
And as an IT guy, it's like, well, just open it up and start
(07:14):
using it. Well, you can't do that with a
generative AI, right? You've got to have, well, this
is how you prompt it. This is how you do a good
prompt. This is how you do a bad prompt.
And so we've really been leaninginto a lot of the training that
these AI providers are giving uson prompt development and prompt
engineering. And asking the tough question is
like, is this going to fall in line with our HIPAA compliance?
(07:35):
Is this going to be part of our financial compliance?
How do we ensure that this chat bot or this chat generation is
not going to compromise us in some way that we don't want to
be? And then opening that door slow
to the to the generative model. And I think we started with
three versions of Copilot beforewe start rolling it out.
So we could say, how is this going to be used?
(07:55):
And is it beneficial first of all, and is it, you know, one of
the challenges to to securing it, making sure that we are
still a compliant organization when it comes to HIPAA and Phi?
I know too, the industry's definitely seen a little bit of
a tech infrastructure bottleneck, you know, because of
COVID. Now being post COVID, there's
(08:16):
still a lot of systems that are outdated.
I mean, copper lines, 1990s techin some of these facilities.
What are you seeing in terms of that?
Are we overcoming that bottleneck?
Are we still in the middle of it?
I think progress is slow and youhear in the tech arena like
everyone in South Korea has fiber to their house.
Well, South Korea is a lot smaller than the US and our
(08:39):
elbow room makes it difficult toget that high speed stuff going.
And then we have questions of who's going to control it and
who's going to update it. And same with a building, right?
Do you really want to invest in this building or are we going to
build a new building someplace? So there is a lot of dated, the
infrastructure out there, buildings that are 30 years old
(09:00):
and were state-of-the-art in the90s, you know, are dated now and
we can't update them anymore because they just didn't have
the base fundamentals to add Wi-Fi access points every 200
feet or you know, run fiber optic from floor 1 to floor 2.
Those take very specialized skills and very specialized
knowledge. Even those are getting harder to
(09:21):
find. If you got a guy who can run
fiber, you're you're doing good,right?
And I think we're, we're improving, but at the same time,
there's just so much to do that it's, it's going to be a slow.
Roll tech isn't really a nice tohave any more now it's like it's
a capital investment that peoplehave to make to stay
competitive. I mean, aside from just the the
competition factor that the guy down the street has it so we
(09:43):
need it, what are the other advantages or the reasons why
that it's no longer just a nice to have?
Well, I think it, I think it's aforce multiplier.
We see this going on in, in a lot of the more developed
countries that they're having population declines and
workforce is not necessarily sitting in a chair for 30 years
trying to do the same job or go watch and then retire.
(10:04):
People are moving from job to job.
So being able to capture that and replicate that and not lose
your institutional knowledge when you're your frontline
workers leave is pretty important.
And you know, in the old days, he sees pen and paper and you'd
have to read through all these file cabinets worth of notes if
you ever wanted to learn what the last guy did.
(10:25):
Now you can put that in copilot and say, hey, sunrise, just give
me the 10 of most important things I need to know today.
And so I think that transfer andimprovement of knowledge sharing
is just crucial to operating these days.
Add data. Oh man, the size of data is just
impossibly complicated to try and keep your head around
without a, some sort of technological tool to help you.
(10:48):
And I think we'll, we'll see that continue to grow size of
our data pool for that we're using, we're using a analytic
tool called Domo for analytics that we're trying to roll out
now. And just getting that in is
quite the effort. And then we think, OK, do we
want a year's worth of data or do we want the last 30 years
worth of data that we've been operating?
And where do we draw that line? If this is useful and this is
(11:10):
not useful and the technology can handle that, right?
We could, we could look at our analytics over the last 30
years. I don't know how useful the the
results would be though. And I'll rely on the analytic
guys who tell us that. But yeah, technology is
everywhere. You know we carry more
technology in our pocket than weuse to get to the moon, is the
famous going around. That's crazy, yeah.
(11:33):
Yeah, it's getting getting smaller and lighter and faster.
I think it's interesting too what you're saying about the
workforce too, because it's likewe either you know, we have to
do more with less or we have to maintain what we have with less.
If maintaining is the way to go,I don't know if we necessarily
need to do more than we're doing, but we're in an upside
down funnel. So we're going to continue to
see generation after generation,less and less people in the
(11:55):
workforce and and more and more older.
There are adults coming into this space.
I'm really curious how we're going to manage that, especially
with some of the tech infrastructure we have.
And then even if we improve thattech isn't the only solution, we
still have to have humans manning the ship.
Well, if you look at the statistics, my parents
generation are the largest consumers of technology right
(12:16):
now. Yeah, I'm in the Gen.
X range, but we have less technology than the people who
are going into our senior livingcommunities right now and want
less technology than the people who are there.
The connectivity and the the information at your fingertips,
it's just vitally important to us at this point.
I know it too. I mean, you guys serve everyone,
(12:36):
the staff, residents, the systems in the community.
I mean, it's like the invisible labor of tech support, right?
I mean, how does, how do you manage that from like the staff
devices to Roombas to smart TV's?
I mean, I can't even wrap my head around it.
Well, it goes back to the automation and the more we can
automate and AI is playing a bigrole in that right.
So if if I can handle, you know,password resets and new user
(13:00):
requests and new room requests with an AI bot that doesn't need
me to sit at a keyboard and typethe same information twice, the
better and then connecting the system.
So if you're already putting your information into our
customer relationship managementtool, we already have that
captured. Why would I ask you to fill out
three more forms that ask you for your name, date of birth and
(13:22):
Social Security number six more times.
Let's connect those tools on theback end, automate that remove
the cumbersome work so that whenyou're talking to the resident
intake manager, you know that they have your information, they
know who you are and they get toconnect with you rather than
have you sit there and fill out a stack of forms again.
So I think vital that people stay involved with people, but
(13:45):
we also need to catch the, the, the data on the back end, right?
And make sure that we have thosetools aligned with everything
else so that we're able to serveas best as we can without having
to say, hold on a SEC, let me golook that up, right?
Tech 2, if you've got the operational side of tech and
then you've got the resident facing support side of tech.
(14:06):
I mean, how does an organizationlike yours kind of way and
navigate that challenge of are we going to do something that's
benefit in the the staff who supports the residents or the
residents themselves? Yes, I mean everything we do to
benefit the workforce will hopefully add value to the to
the residents as well, right. So that's the approach and vice
versa, you know, rather than having to go down to the
(14:29):
concierge desk and have them find something for you on a map
and arrange a ride for you, can we just have an app on your
television that lets you do that, say, hey, I want to go to
the doctor's office today. I need a ride at 10 AM.
That's pretty simple technology that we could implement in a, in
a senior care facility. And we rely a lot on our vendors
for that support. I managed 6 people in my entire
(14:51):
organization, had like 80 communities.
It's always based on how can thevendors support us in this in
this effort and we rely on them pretty heavily for that
combination of technology, integration between this is for
the resident, this is for the staff, it's more like this is
for the operations overall. And hopefully everyone's a
little happier at the end of theday.
(15:12):
I've heard a lot of conversations too around robots
and there's questioning. Are these really useful?
Are they not useful? What is your position on them?
I know a lot of communities are using them to kind of fill the
FT gaps. Yeah.
But I know obviously they still require human guidance.
Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to buying my Optimus 3 when it
comes out from later this year. Right, We'll see how how that
(15:35):
turns out. Yeah, we from vacuuming a floor,
right. We could pay one fee to vacuum
our floors once a day, but or wecan pay the equivalent to have a
robot vacuuming all the floors in every level all day long
continuously for the same money or less.
(15:57):
Then having that person, you know, we can't take the person
out as we just talked about. We'd have to then maintain the
robots, right? You have to empty the the bags,
clean the brushes. I've got a little robot here in
my house that yeah, I used to spend 3 hours a day cleaning
floors. Now I spend an hour a week
fixing the robot to make sure itkeeps working right.
And there is that human technology interaction that must
(16:20):
happen in order to maintain what's there.
And just making sure, you know, a robot gets stuck every once in
a while. Those server robots, they do a
wonderful job, but they sometimes find an obstacle they
can't figure out how to get around and what's not there to
direct them. They're just going to sit there
and wait. So And your food's getting cold
so. As an IT leader too, I mean,
what do you, what do you think we can do to help fill
(16:44):
generational talent gaps and kind of upskill?
I I feel like there's a big gap.There is a big gap and we we see
this a lot. My team, like I said, I got 6-6
guys, six or seven guys. They start at two to three years
experience and then there's thisgiant gap to those of us who
have been around for 30 years. So I got three of the, of the
(17:05):
team that have been here for 30 years and the rest of them have
been here for less than 5. And that's their entire IT
experience. So that 5 to 30 years is a, is a
big part of the, where are thosepeople and, and can we get one
of them? And it's pretty competitive for
that level of, of skill and talent out there.
So we've approached it by havingthose guys like myself and and
(17:28):
my engineers that have been heredoing this for so long,
mentoring one-on-one with the teams that are just coming up
through the ranks and getting them to think, OK, that's how
you fix a printer. But how do you think about the
entire printing system as a whole and how would you design
this and how would you improve this?
And trying to get them out of that on just resetting passwords
today and helping users log in to how would I design this to be
(17:52):
better and how do I think about the system as a whole?
And that is a journey, certainlynot, not going to happen
overnight. And, and we realize that, but
hopefully by the time, you know,we're ready to hang up our hats
and move into my residence, one of my communities that I have a
staff that's educated and knowledgeable enough to take
over for me. And I think that's where a lot
(18:14):
of the technologies and leadership is in the technology
arena is educating the younger generations and not age wise.
You know I don't care about the age but the the skill gap is
build right? Is the systems the systems
thinking something that you feellike is just not happening now
with the younger entry level team members and you're just
(18:36):
kind of having to educate them or does that just come with with
age and experience It's. Kind of an epiphany you have
after about 10 years of it. It's like, oh hey, this is the
same problem I'm having over andover again.
Maybe it's not this is the problem.
Maybe something bigger outside of that.
And, and I think when we try andeducate people about think about
(18:57):
the system, not the not the the issue, we are trying to
accelerate that knowledge. You know, it took me 10 years of
banging my head against the walland fixing computers to learn,
hey, this is a system, not just a, not just a printer.
If I can get my staff to do thatin six years, that's a big step
ahead for them, their career andtheir ability.
(19:17):
So that's what we're trying to do.
I'll let you know in 10 years how that works out for me.
What do you think is the issue? Why is there such a gap in the
mid employment market? I mean, for it specifically, I
mean, where are all these peopleworking right now that there's
such a gap? Well, I think there's there's a
huge demand for the for it. And we've seen a little bit of
(19:38):
of pressure relief when like Facebook and Apple and Google
start rightsizing, you know, when they start letting go their
technical staff, those become available in the market.
But most of the guys who have that level of experience get a
really good paycheck and a really good job at these really
big tech companies. And there's always another big
(19:58):
tech companies starting up someplace, right?
So. I think it's, it's just really
competitive for that skill set and that education level and
then experience level there. So I, I don't think there's a
lack of people. I think it's just there's a
bountiful plenty of technology jobs out there that just need,
need that education experience. And if you're if you can't pay
(20:20):
the six figure salary for a guy who's been doing this for eight
years, you're probably not goingto get that guy.
Yeah, yeah. There's, there's plenty of job
opportunities right now for surein tech talking about
cybersecurity too. We're cybersecurity in a quantum
age now. Can you educate our audience
about what quantum computing is and how that's going to impact
(20:40):
the future of encryption? We can a little bit.
So I'm not the expert, but I do read a lot.
So right now we're A1 in zero kind of computing mentality,
right? It's either yes or no.
And so that's, that's the binarysystem that we've built up for
the last 7080 years, right. And quantum computing is more of
(21:04):
a state. You're either almost positive or
almost negative. So you can be in multiple states
at once. It adds a really interesting
dimension to the way we compute.And Microsoft and Google have
both released a chip this year that can do stateful computing
like quantum, as close to quantum as I've seen from
(21:25):
outside the the big IBM quantum computers out there.
And as they get smaller in technology and we add generative
AI to that, it's going to be pretty fast and pretty furious
how fast that generative AI can learn and adapt.
And it's exciting, but it's alsolike, oh, what does this mean
for security? Because in the past, you used to
(21:47):
have to worry about the NigerianPrince wanting to send you
$1,000,000. Next week, you're going to get a
phone call from your mother saying, hey, I need 20 bucks so
I can get home. And can I just get that out of
your Apple Pay, right? And it's going to sound like
your mom and she's going to knowa lot about you because hey, I
just discovered everything therewas in less than two minutes
based on the Internet. And it's, it's going to be
(22:08):
really hard to, to detect. You see that right now that even
in encryption, the speed at which quantum can break a 256
AES encryption is really fast. We have to rethink how
encryption is working to secure our data in transit.
And there are now quantum resistant encryption that are
(22:28):
being developed and worked on sothat we can we can combat that
next level of computer crime going on there.
I think computer crime's not going to stop, right?
It's a $3 billion a year industry.
There's if there's money there, people are going to flock to it.
I mean, it's at this point in time who has access to quantum
computing. I mean, should we be worried
about our standard security protocols right now or is this
(22:48):
like a future concern? I would say probably going to
start being a future concern in the next five years.
You know, that's how fast tech moves, right?
Five years ago we didn't have AIand now it's everywhere.
So when quantum actually gets tothe market and people learn how
to use it, you know, there's still that learning gap between,
you know, I know how to program in Python And C# and whatnot.
(23:10):
How do you program a quantum, right?
What does that look like? So there there is that, that
learning gap that I think will give us a little bit of relief
before that's figured out. But we have AI now to help us
with our coding. So that's gonna go even faster
now too. So I think, I think we've got 4,
maybe five years. We'll see how that that turns
(23:32):
out though. So last time we talked to you
were talking about going back tothe days of the mafia.
Why? What?
Some sensitive data might be going back to the paper and pen.
Right, yeah, if you can, if youronly concern is physical
security, that takes a lot of the burden off from that, from
that digital right. And the old tech was the way,
right. I'd rather someone put a post
(23:53):
and note with their password underneath their desk than use a
Microsoft Word document. That was that's one of my my
fear stories of the past is I had a user that kept all his
banking data and all his passwords on a Word document and
someone accessed his computer and downloaded all his files.
I was like only just use the post it note.
(24:13):
So that was that's where I learned that part.
I do think it's interesting though, because I feel like
there's a lot of areas where we're going to value those
analog approaches to things. You know, things that are
handwritten and human made are going to hold more value than
something that's generated, you know, through AI or digitally,
which is pretty interesting. Yeah, there's a big the the non
(24:36):
fungible tokens, the art that they use on those is generate
some interesting like financial revenue for people.
And I'm like, you're really paying for ones and zeros.
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty. But is it worth worth that much
money as opposed to like going and getting a Picasso or a Monet
or, you know, one of the old artists that put brush the
(24:57):
canvas right? Something you can see and smell
and experience. Yeah.
How do you see yourself in termsof tech adoption, in terms of
the curve? Where do you see yourself?
And you know why? I mean, I, I think like waiting
a little bit isn't always losing.
You're not always behind. I think it's probably smart,
especially given the role you play, to, to be a little bit
(25:19):
behind the curve. Yeah, there's, there's marketing
that actually cut the, the curveof adoption up and there's early
adopters, late adopters and thenall those guys in the middle.
I definitely don't aspire to be an early adopter.
I don't want to be first to market on adopting tech.
Sometimes it happens because there's just this is what I want
to use, right. So we mostly based tech
(25:42):
utilization from our user base. We, they say, hey, I need a tool
to help me do X and we say, well, OK, let's go look at and
see what tools there are. It's like, well, if we want to
future proof this a little bit, we could be an early adopter on
this new technology. You know, we'll consider it and
we'll, we'll, we'll definitely look at it and see if that's
worth doing. But most of the time being into
(26:02):
that mid to late stage adoption gives you the ability to look
back and say, Hey, what happenedover there when they tried this,
right? So you get to see how it's
working in the market before you, you, you try and throw it
on on your people. You learn a lot of lessons that
way. But again, to your, to your
point, we lose a little bit of that strategic advantage and
that initiative of being forced to market on something like, and
(26:25):
if that's a concern, maybe earlyadoption is, is the motto,
right? And I'm not opposed to early
adopters. I just don't want to be one of
them. Agreed.
I agreed a hundred 100,000 percent.
I can't. I won't be first in line.
I might be fifth in line but I want to see how the 1st 4 go
first before I dive in. Another phrase I was curious
about too is when it comes to tech implementation was a people
(26:47):
first mentality. When it comes to like robotics
and automation and AI, what doesthat mean and how is that
utilized? There's a, there's a phrase out
there, and I used this in, in the talk at the senior living
executive conference when I get my presentations called Human in
the loop. And a part of that is designing
your process, even if it's an AIprocess around the people who
(27:08):
are using it and experiencing itand not removing the person, but
giving them leverage, right? So they can do their job better
or faster or more of it often the case.
And but not not thinking that, hey, this has to be completely
automated. This has to be completely
robotic. I don't need people in this.
Well, we've known that robots require people know that AI
(27:31):
requires someone to sit to verify.
Are you hallucinating now or is that really something you can,
you can publish? So the, the person in the loop,
the, the human in the loop is always going to be essential.
Whatever we're relying on technology, whether that's just
quality assurance and quality checking to say, hey, is, is
what you're putting out what we actually want to be be saying.
(27:53):
And then we got to remember thatif everyone is using AI tools,
it's going to filter down to like the two or three top
runners. And so you're going to be
putting out the same product that I'm putting out that
someone else is putting out. And then there's really no
competitive advantage in there because you've lost that human
touch and that that personal connection that you could
(28:13):
otherwise get keeping the peopleand augmenting them.
I think it's pretty important tomake sure you're you're thinking
about the the person before you think about the.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. At the end of the day, for sure,
especially in this industry, is there anything that you're doing
proactively to plan for future moves in terms of tech and IT?
Lots of reading. Yeah.
(28:35):
Up on the keeping up on the industry as much as possible and
seeing what other people are doing, right.
So we were talking about supporting residents before.
They don't call my help desk. But at larger communities, you
know, 800 plus, which are probably 3 or 4 times larger
than most of our communities, they're providing an on site
(28:57):
like Freegeek service where they'll show up one day a month
and anyone can come and ask sometech questions and get help with
their technology. That's a great service that
involves A technician technologyand resident education where you
can bring up stuff like, hey, there's this new social
engineering out there where yourgrandson might call you saying
(29:17):
he's in jail and he needs bail money.
Being able to educate your, yourresidence is awesome.
So those are kind of what we're looking at and what we're moving
towards. I'm also really interested in
smart technology, creating that smart department of the future.
I think that's got a lot of potential for the senior living
environment. And I really want to keep my my
(29:38):
eyes and my ears open for any ofthat new and interesting
capabilities out there. I guess that Optimus robot in
the corner right here next to metyping away.
Do you see the smart apartment enhancing resident engagement
too, or do you think that's a totally separate item?
There's an interesting work on that where and and it goes back
to our AI conversation. We're getting residents engaged
(30:02):
with AI chat bots and it's improving their quality of life
because they have someone to talk to.
But what it's doing is it's removing that engagement with
their neighbors. So I see smart departments as
helpful. You know, if the lights come on
when you get up in the middle ofnight to go use the restroom,
that can help you prevent a fall, right?
(30:23):
If you're, you know, monitoring temperature and adjusting it
automatically rather than going and changing the thermostat,
that improves comfort. So we definitely look at those
things. We're looking at wearables all
the time. You know, would a smart watch
give us better data information for your care planning and other
technologies like that, that that are just, you know,
(30:46):
beneficial for anyone who wants to use it?
So we definitely keep an eye on those.
And I think smart departments would be great, but we always
have to think about what's the infrastructure look like can
support that. And that's always the first
challenge, is examining the infrastructure and thinking how
would we apply smart locks and smart cameras and all that other
(31:07):
stuff. My last question for you too, I,
I think there's a lot of people who assume or are fearful that
innovation just means that, you know, job security is at risk,
you know, less, less people needed, right, because
technology is taking care of more of, of the heavy lifting
for them. I think there's probably a way
that innovation and employee retention can coexist,
(31:28):
especially in the healthcare space.
I mean, what, what are your thoughts on that?
Is there? Is there a way that technology
and innovation can actually improve employee retention?
I think so. You know, I think that jobs will
change, right? We don't, we don't have people
driving nails with hammers anymore.
There's just no point to that. But we still need people that
(31:51):
can design a structure and understand how it all fits
together and making sure that everything flows the way it
needs to so that we have good productivity at the end of the
day. And no matter which technology
you add or which job you're, you're working with, they'll be
using technology to improve that.
The, the analogy I really like is, you know, think about in the
(32:14):
early 80s before pneumatic hammers were there, how many
people were sitting there framing and how many framers do
we have out there today? Those pneumatic guns gave 1000
to one work effort. So those jobs, yes, they went
away from the technology arena or from the the construction
arena, but other jobs opened up in the technology arena, right?
(32:36):
We now need people who can assemble pneumatic guns, who can
repair pneumatic guns, who can fix compressors, who can do all
these other jobs that are neededfor that new industry.
And I think technology is the same way and there is a barrier
to entry. I think that is our biggest
challenge is that if you don't understand tech and you're
interested in understanding tech, you're going to have a
(32:57):
much harder time in the future. I think if everyone's going to
be at the point where they need to understand at least the most
basic tech information in order to operate in in any job that
they're doing. And we see that McDonald's has
robotic French fry cooks now, right?
Do you know how to opt the robotic French fry cook?
(33:19):
I've seen a few that they don't even have registers anymore.
They just have the kiosks, you know, So it's kind of crazy.
Well, thank you, Benjamin. Thank you so much for such a
great conversation. Where can our audience go to
learn more about Sincere Senior Living or connect with you?
Yeah, they can always go to our,our web page
sincereseniorliving.com that hasall the resident information on
(33:39):
there and a little bit more about the leadership team and,
and the sincere corporate environment.
And we always like to say, you know, sincere means like family.
So that's, that's kind of our approach even in tech.
You know, if I'm helping you reset your password, I'm helping
like you're my dad or my, my brother, not not some stranger
out there there. So that's the best place to find
it. You can find me on LinkedIn.
Not a big talker but usually respond.
(34:02):
Yeah, awesome. All right.
Well, as we wrap up today's episode, I want to extend a huge
thank you to you, Benjamin Ekstrom, for joining us and
offering a clear eyed strategic view of technology's role in
senior living. From managing AI, governance,
and cybersecurity threats to leading digital transformation
across dozens of communities, Benjamin's work shows us that
true innovation requires intention, not just excitement.
(34:25):
So if you want to connect with Benjamin or learn more about his
work at Sincere Senior Living, we've included his LinkedIn
profile as well as the website link in the show notes.
As always, we hope you found this episode insightful and
inspiring. Don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast on your favorite platform and stay tuned for more
episodes where we continue to explore the evolving world of
senior care, covering everythingfrom innovative carrier models
(34:47):
and leadership strategies to family support technology in the
future of aging. And remember that From Leads to
Leases isn't just an audio experience.
We're also a video podcast. So if you want to see the video
versions of our episodes, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube
or Spotify channels. I'm Jerry Vincey, CEO of CCR
growth. Thank you for joining us on From
Leads to Leases and please like,subscribe and share this episode
(35:09):
with anyone whom I find it useful.
I'm truly grateful for your timeand attention.
And until next time, lead with strategy and with heart.
Chat with you again soon. Thanks, Benjamin.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to From
Leads to Leases. Are you ready to fill your rooms
faster and increase occupancy? Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn
about our Senior Growth Innovation Suite, a proven
(35:31):
system to generate highly qualified tour ready leads,
accelerate sales and reduce acquisition costs.
Let's connect and turn your challenges into opportunities.
See you next time.
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