#86 - What Communities Get Wrong About Occupancy, the Boomers, and the Buyer's Journey with Jill Johnson - From Leads to Leases - Senior Living Marketing and Sales

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Senior living is not Starbucks. You cannot commoditize the
experience to the same degree and level that you can when
you're selling something like coffee.
You can't fix occupancy with SEOif the market doesn't want what
you're selling. Today's guest has walked into
thousands of communities and says the real issue isn't always

(00:22):
your staff or your sales script.It might be the market itself.
Welcome to From Leeds to Leases ACCR Growth podcast that helps
senior living providers transform their complex
challenges into opportunities. Listen in for stories from
industry leaders, innovative strategies and insights, and
with our expertise, learn how toincrease occupancy faster,

(00:44):
Guaranteed. Welcome back to another episode
of From Lease to Lease is the podcast that dives deep into the
senior living and senior care industries, bringing you
insights, strategies, and stories from the experts at the
forefront of innovation, leadership, and care.
I'm your host, Jerry Vinci, CEO of CCR Growth, full service
marketing and growth agency that's exclusive to the senior

(01:07):
living industry. And through this podcast, I'm
here to guide you to the evolving landscape of senior
care, exploring the innovations,strategies, and leadership
insights that are shaping the future of the industry.
So whether you're a provider or caregiver or industry leader,
this show is here to help you make informed decisions and
create meaningful impact. All right, so my guest today is
Jill Johnson, the president and founder of Johnson Consulting

(01:30):
Services, a Minneapolis based firm that's influenced more than
4 billion in senior living business decisions.
She's worked across the full continuum of aging services from
entry fee, CCR, CS, and nonprofits to transitional care
and Hospice, advising clients like Mayo Clinics, Charterhouse,

(01:50):
Brookdale, Covenant Living, and ResMed.
She's also the author of Market Forces, Strategic Trends
Impacting Senior Living Providers, the book many in the
industry consider the Guide to Market Strategy.
Jill's known for her no nonsenseapproach to helping communities
figure out whether their challenges are operational,

(02:11):
market driven, or both. So if you're struggling with
occupancy and think it's just a sales problem, she might prove
you wrong. So Jill, welcome to the show.
I am so glad to have you here. That's going to be an awesome
episode. Thanks so much, Jerry.
I'm excited about the conversation we're going to have
today. I love it when we can can pull
the curtain back and share some really great insights.
So I'm looking forward to it. Me too, me too.

(02:32):
And riffing off the intro a little bit, talking just about
when occupancy isn't a marketingproblem, because I think that's
usually the first place that people point fingers.
It's either marketing or sales. Some communities blame slow
sales, some blame marketing. How can you tell the difference
between a sales problem and a market mismatch?
Well, I think there's there's a couple different pieces to to

(02:55):
diving underneath that layer. I actually even step it back a
little further. My question is, is it a sales
and marketing problem or is it amarket problem?
And that gets into the market depth and are there enough
income qualified senior living households in the market or
individuals who need care and services that can afford to live

(03:17):
in your building? And all too often, you know, and
I get this from boards a lot, they're like, we need to fire
our salesperson. You know, sales and marketing is
a complete failure. You know, our occupancies are
terrible and, and you get in andyou find, you know, and so you,
you, we do a lot of secret shopping.
And so, you know, and I came back to one client, I said, you

(03:37):
know, we've, we've shopped all of your potential replacements
for your person. She's the best in the market.
The issue isn't her. There were other factors
involved. And I think the mismatch often
is that sometimes they haven't taken a step back to look
objectively at what they're positioning.
And so looking at everything from, you know, if, who is your

(04:01):
target audience, if it's, you know, if you're an entry level
or an entrance fee CCRC and you're really trying to get that
younger, more active senior thatthat tips a little into the
maybe late 70s or early 80s. Well, look at your pictures.
What are you putting out? Are you, you know, we've had
clients where we do a search. Every newspaper article is

(04:24):
either an obituary or celebrating somebody's 100th
birthday. And you look at the photographs
on the website and it's, you know, a, an obviously 90 plus
year old that is sitting in a chair, you know, lifting a 1 LB
weight with a woman in scrubs behind her who's lifting her arm
up. It doesn't convey the the

(04:46):
synchronicity of the messaging. And so a lot of times I think
the way you start to figure out is there a mismatch here is 1 by
doing that deeper external dive.And then secondly, it's taking a
much more objective look at whatare you putting out into the the
world for your messaging, your website, your content, your

(05:10):
greeting, You know, are people being warmly greeted by that
receptionist that it's at your front desk?
Or when you had that staff change from Mary Jane to Susie Q
Susie Q is kind of a crabby ladyand really ought not to be
working the front desk. And I've had clients where
that's been my experience when I've shopped them is I get the
crabby lady who makes me feel 3 inches tall and that I should

(05:32):
leave because I didn't have an appointment with the marketing
director. And you're like that.
And that's what she's doing as somebody who's coming in cold.
Well, I'm not the only one that that was done to.
So there's lots of lots of permutations that were into ways
we can dig under the covers herea little bit further.
And is there one data point thatyou typically look at when
assessing A struggling communityfirst, I guess the first data

(05:55):
point you look at? You know, I look at market area
draw, that's probably the where is there place of origin and
any, every marketing and salesperson I've ever talked to
is our market area is this big, you know, it's super wide and
you know, it's a 20 mile radius.I'm like, OK, maybe when you

(06:17):
opened 30 years ago, but what isit today?
And so I like to get into the resident origin data and look at
everything I can find about the residents that they've tracked.
Some clients do a better job than others, but just haven't
looked at their data. And some clients, I've actually
had to make them take the littlesheets of paper and key it into

(06:39):
an Excel file so we could look at it.
And often what I find is I like to look at more than just who
lives there now. If I can get trend data over
who's moved into the building over the last five years or even
10 years, you can start to see the shifts and patterns and the
shifts and changes in the data points in your own community to

(07:00):
show you that, yeah, maybe you did have a market area like this
10 years ago, but over the last 3 1/2 years it's collapsed to
this. That's the that's often the most
significant reason that properties are struggling is
because that more narrowly defined market area that they
are actually drawing from is notbig enough to sustain the

(07:21):
occupancy level for the number of units that they have in the
property. And what often has happened is
you've had such an influx of competitive product that there
are many, many other options nowfor the seniors living in that
community, that you're not the only game in town.
So people don't have to drive from as far away or move from as
far away because they've got something closer to where they

(07:44):
originally lived. And if you haven't been as
deeply connected to the local community, you know, the
organizations that have what we call affinity relationships, you
know they're connected to the Catholic faith, or they're part
of the Masonic family community,or they're connected to a
university. If there are, if there isn't a

(08:06):
strong pull factor to the site, then you have to also then look
at how visible the property is. And is your marketing person.
Are your sales people only sitting at their desk waiting
for the inbound calls or are they also out in the community
and doing more than dropping cookies off for discharge
planners? Are they actually building

(08:27):
relationships with community referral sources that are
trusted people in the community beyond just the healthcare area
that become part of that circle of trust, if you will, that that
know, like and and admire what you have to offer.
And I think a lot of times properties providers just, they

(08:48):
get complacent and it's very easy for the leads to fall off
the leasing and the occupancy tostart to tank.
And so when we get in, we first start with that metric of what's
your market area. And it's impossible to do
anything else until we have a really good handle on that.
And then we start to look at, OK, what competitive product has

(09:09):
come into those zip codes? You know, what are the websites
of those competitors look like? How do they look like compared
to yours? You know what, what
organizations are they showing up at?
You know, are they sponsoring activities and events at the
Senior Center and you're nowhereto be found, but yet your
competitors front and center with people who are either
prospects or referral sources. And so it's things like that

(09:33):
that ultimately I think make a huge difference for providers,
but they often are too close to it to to really think about how
does this really affect us. And and so sometimes that, you
know, we're so great perspectiveskews their ability to be
realistic about how they're coming across in the
marketplace. I think it's interesting too,

(09:53):
and I'll probably shoot myself in the foot here, but I think a
lot of providers have relied waytoo heavily on digital marketing
now, to the point where they've stopped doing those things where
they are stopping in person, making those meaningful
connections. And I think that's what's really
hurting. And as an outside agency that
works with communities, I mean, that's the one thing we tell

(10:13):
them is we'll take care of the digital side.
But if we're taking care of the digital side, you've got to do
the outreach on your side. You've got to make those
connections. Because back in the day, you had
1-2, maybe 3 communities to consider if you were looking for
senior living for yourself or for a loved one.
Now, families are looking at five to seven options and all
within a pretty close radius. And so how are you

(10:36):
differentiating yourself in thatgroup of people?
It's not the website copy, it's not the amenities because
everybody's got the same roughlythe same, right?
So it really is, it's those connections and and how you
interact with the community and what that reputation is, I
think. Absolutely.
And you know, and I think a lot of providers, you know, they
default to the digital marketingbecause it's easier, it's less

(10:58):
personal, it doesn't take as much time because once it's set
up and done, you know, you don'thave to worry about it.
And, and I think it's also what I'm seeing is a lot of providers
are doing superficial relationship development.
So like, I wasn't kidding when Isaid they, they drop off the
cookies for the discharge planner and it's, but that's not

(11:18):
a relationship. You know, they're not leveraging
the other tools like LinkedIn orFacebook or even Instagram as
ways of communicating with different audiences that they
need to touch. Whether it's, you know,
positioning for families to helpthem understand the life and
lifestyle and the love that mom's getting when she lives at

(11:42):
your community or, you know, sharing resources and knowledge
about, you know, how to age well, you know, how to have
those hard conversations, you know, things that a lot of
providers do. And the other thing, Jerry, that
drives me bonkers is they're often relying solely on static
photographic images or written content.

(12:02):
And the world has changed so much even in the since COVID
where the whole digital medium of using something like this
format, whether it's a podcast or it's a video message that's
on the website from your CEO or your social worker that says,

(12:24):
hey, I know that if it's an assisted living provider, Hi,
I'm Jill, I'm the social worker here at whatever client name.
And I know that one of the questions that we often get is
how hard it is to have these conversations with your mom and
dad to begin to start preparing for the likelihood that they're
going to need to move. So let me give you 3 tips on

(12:46):
what you can do to begin to prepare 123 short two to three
minute segment that becomes gold.
And what it also does is it makes you real.
Now they're, they're hearing from a real person And, and I
think that that senior living issuch a behemoth and it's such,

(13:07):
so many layers of overwhelm thatpeople are often at an early
phase of their journey when, when they're starting to reach
out or starting to look and theydon't want to reveal a whole lot
to you yet because they don't trust you.
They don't know what database your, your information is going
to be in. And you're asking us all kinds
of questions about my mom's health and, and her money and

(13:30):
whatever. And this is like the first 5
minutes I'm talking to you, you know, and, and it, it becomes
very difficult. And so I think the more we can
leverage those tools to help break things down, then the in
person part becomes the icing onthe cake.
It helps the other people that you're connecting with in the
local community see you as someone when they are having

(13:54):
conversations, as a person to refer because they know you.
It's not the site, they know youand those personal relationships
and, and maintaining those because you're building that
visibility are important. And it's also important to not
be relying on one person becausepeople leave, I hear in the job

(14:14):
world, they transition. And then what are you going to
do if you've only relied on Marsha going to all the
different things and now you've got to bring somebody else in.
So if you can diversify that a little bit, I think it it ends
up being good. I'll never forget I had I came
back, we were looking at yeah. And for me, one of the other
things that I like to look at inin metrics is what's the key

(14:37):
referral source and not by big genre, you know, community or
the Internet or average like what you know what who in the
local community. So I'm a big me details and one
of the things that we realized is because it was a very high
end property that many of their source of point for referrals

(14:58):
were from a local Rotary group that was of executives from the
local community. And as people were aging, you
know, we were starting to get a good pipeline going.
I came back to the CEO and I said, you're going to hate me,
but I'm I can live with that. You need to join Rotary.
And he's like, what? I don't have time for Rotary.

(15:20):
I'm like, I, I, I understand it,Tony, but let me explain to you.
You can't send your marketing director to this Rotary group.
She doesn't have enough stature and it, it just would be an
absolutely poor fit. But if you go, it will make all
the difference in the world. And, you know, he groused about
it for a while and, and he retired not too long ago.

(15:41):
And he's like, I'm so glad you made me do that Rotary thing.
It was, I looked forward to those Wednesday lunches and, you
know, so it was a whole different dynamic.
But again, it has to fit the audience.
And he then became the pipeline for referrals in because he was
of equal stature with the peoplethat they were quote UN quote
selling to. And then it was his sales team

(16:02):
who took the next step. So he brought the referral in
because he was present in the rooms that he needed to be
present in. I.
Mean so it sounds like even in the age of tech, in the age of
AI mean the best way to future proof your product in in the
saturated markets is definitely going to be that human
connection and making it as personal as possible.
Well, yeah. And I think 1 area that's

(16:24):
overlooked, that's growing is, you know, if we think about
older adults and where they are in their life journey, you know,
a lot of people come back to their faith even if they've been
very disconnected from it throughout most of their middle
age life. As they get closer to those,
what may be final years and they've started losing loved
ones and they've started losing their friends, for a lot of

(16:47):
them, faith becomes something that they see.
And they also often have very trusted relationships with their
church and faith community. And one of the things I just
finished up a project that it was a real eye opener for me
because as you know, normally welook at the churches, but I
started seeing a new pattern andthat was church care teams where

(17:07):
the churches, as they're trying to keep their membership as long
as possible, have started providing and offering outreach
services. I mean, most of the churches
have done, you know, like minor visits and you know, like if
you're Catholic, you can get, you know, somebody will bring
you communion, but they've really professionalized it, if
you will, by building out care teams and the, you know, the

(17:29):
care teams create all kinds of robust marketing opportunity for
a savvy provider because by building relationships with the
not just the manager and director of the care team, but
you're like, how can we provide education and support to your
care team leaders who are the ones that are going into those
homes? You know what, what do you, you
need in terms of education and information?

(17:51):
You know, this is our business. So what can we provide you that
will make those experiences thatthey have with the people that
they serve even more impactful? Now there's a subtle layer
there. You see where, you know, now we
we're we're giving you information, we're building that
trust and and you know that those are the people that are
dealing with the most frail members of the parish.

(18:14):
Ding, Ding, Ding. Well, those are the people that
the families may say, you know, we really are starting to be at
a point where we need to look atfor assisted living for mom.
We just don't know what to do. And it's it becomes an easy
conversation for them to say, you know, you might want to talk
to Jill over at because, you know, I've met her a few times
and she seems like a straight shooter.

(18:35):
And I don't think she's going tooversell you, give you a
conversation. Well, that's exactly the way you
want those pipeline of leads to come.
And I think that a lot of times people are so afraid because
they're wanting to run quick. You know, there's something
about our society. Maybe it's because, you know, TV
shows are, you know, 30 minutes in length of which, you know, 10

(18:57):
minutes is commercial. So it's, you know, a 20 minute
quick hit that resolves by the end of by the end of the half
hour or the hour at the most. And you know, senior living in
and selling senior living is a so much more complicated sales
process and sales dynamic. And I think it becomes easy for
people to think they're selling a commodity when they're

(19:19):
actually selling something that is much bigger and much more
meaningful and, and much more significant to the people for
whom you ultimately will get to say yes.
And so it needs to be treated with that same degree of
respect, I think as well. I love that.
I love that. And I know that most, I would
say even most communities don't track how long that sales cycle
actually is. We've worked with some, quite a

(19:41):
few who really didn't know how long it took to get a prospect
all the way through their sales cycle.
And when they found out, they were amazed at how long it
actually took. Well, and I think it leads to to
another area and that's this whole concept of the customer
journey, You know, people who are at the very early stages,
you know, they're getting the lingo down.

(20:02):
They're trying to understand rental and entrance fee.
You mean I have to pay you a whole bunch of money to live
here. And then then is it refundable
or is it a, was it a life care contract?
And I don't get anything back. Oh, I couldn't do that because I
want to leave money for my children.
And you know you have all these complexities, and you know each

(20:24):
one of those complexities is a. The roadblock to a yes and so I
think a lot of sales people because we secret shop a lot.
It's not my favorite thing to do, but it just, it's part of
the nature of the beast in the industry.
And I can't stand the calls where they either just launch

(20:44):
right into their, well, we're this and this and this and we
have, you know, 182 units and, you know, 4 levels of care and
whatever. And, you know, now tell me
everything about your mom. You know, I'm like, really?
So ask people, how much experience have you had with
senior living? You know, do you know a lot
about it? Do you have friends who've had
it or, you know, have you ever been exposed to it yourself?

(21:05):
And then that can kind of begin to help you calibrate like,
where do I start the conversation with this cold
prospect that I don't know anything about?
So that it becomes really easy for them to share information
with you, but you're not launching into it right at the
beginning. And, and, you know, and
sometimes their sales people arevery aggressive because they

(21:28):
want your name, your phone number and your e-mail address
so that they can bombard you andput you on their mailing list.
It's like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm at the early stage here.
So, so there's that, that beginning level of awareness.
And then there's the, you know, OK, now we're really getting
serious because mom is having more trouble.
I've started having the conversations with my siblings

(21:50):
or mom has started saying to me,I'm so lonely and you know,
nobody comes to visit me and I'mhere by myself all the time
since your dad died and those, those conversations are coming
more and more regularly. Well, now I've got to actually
start to look. And so how hard do you make it
to tour? You know what, what is that

(22:10):
touring experience like? I'll never forget I was touring
a property and and the sales I the room was a weird layout and
I said to the, you know, the salesperson, so where would you
put your bed? Well, wherever you want.
Wow, OK. Really.
Where would you put? It put yeah, where do most
people put the bed? Well, I don't know.

(22:31):
I don't ask people where they like, I feel so much love and
warmth with you, you know, and, and you can't, you can't even
answer like my basic questions or you're dismissive and you say
things like, you know, cuz let'sface it, a lot of our more
mature senior living communitiesstill have community laundry
rooms like we had in college. And, and they don't have washer

(22:51):
and dryer in the apartment. And for some people, that's the
deal breaker. They, they feel like they have
to have that. But often the salespeople
haven't really figured out a good way to have the
conversation about, you know what we like to think of it as
you get some extra steps in yourday and you know, having the
community laundry room means that more of the space in your

(23:11):
unit is livable space. Whereas if you have a washer and
dryer in there, it takes up roomthat could have been another
closet or could have been a bigger living room room.
And so, you know, as we've talked about, you know, what to
do, we've decided we still like our community laundry room and
in residence, they get used to it after, you know, a couple
trips down, It's not as big a deal as it might feel on a quick

(23:35):
tour. All of a sudden that you start
giving them some ways to overcome that objection in a
very subtle conversation. And then as people are really at
the point of making that decision and it's maybe between
you and another place, you know,you remind them of the things.
Well, I know that you mentioned that you're mom has had three
good friends who have lived hereand been very happy here.

(23:55):
And we would love to welcome herinto our family.
Ask for the order. You ask for it in a way that
makes her feel comfortable. But you know, if you're so busy
because you've got quotas to meet, because you're supposed to
have six more tours yet this month.
And and you know, you need five more admissions.
And, you know, if you if you lose this one, you're not going

(24:16):
to get your trip to, you know, whatever your bonus it becomes
in offense. And I find that the very best
sales people are the ones who don't worry about outcome.
They worry about fit and making sure that we have the
programming and the activities and, and, and, you know,
communities are different because of the social class of
the residents who are there. You know, I mean, I had we were

(24:39):
touring a Jewish property and, you know, we seeded in, you
know, mom is Catholic. Is that going to be a problem?
And I'll never forget they said our Gentiles love us.
OK, there you go. And so, but, you know, it's all
of the wording and it's the interaction and how you are in
that moment and experience it and showing those moments of

(25:01):
care and compassion of, you know, just stopping going.
You know, I know this is a really hard thing.
You know, I see that and I hear that from a lot of people as
they're going through this process.
But let me tell you, the one thing I also hear after people
move in is giving them the reassurance now is they wish
they had moved in sooner. And I can't tell you how many

(25:21):
people that that's what I hear after they've been here a few
weeks or a month, they once theyget into the rhythm, once
they've, you know, gotten through the grief process of,
you know, packing up things and moving them over and they start
to get settled because their life becomes their own again.
And that's what I'd like to havefor you and your mom.
You get to be her daughter, not her caregiver, not her grocery

(25:43):
shopper, not her garbage hauler outer.
But you get to spend your time with your mom, visiting with
your mom and reminiscing with your mom and enjoying just being
with her rather than doing for her like you've been doing for
the last three years. All of a sudden that just that
level of emathy when it can comethrough, those are the hooks

(26:03):
that also draw people in and help make them feel like my mom
is going to be really loved and cared for here, even though
we're paying these people to love and care for her.
But there's a heart here. And I've been in, I've been in
some beautiful $1,000,000 plus entrance fee communities that
were as cold and as impersonal as they could possibly be.

(26:24):
And I've been in properties thatwere, you know, maybe needed a
little more retrofitting and a little bit of, you know, upgrade
of, you know, be nice to have some prettier couches and maybe,
you know, a few more pretty pictures on the wall.
But you could feel the heart because they had staff, people
who who were working the front desk, who were walking the

(26:45):
halls, the dining staff who knewmom liked her coffee with two
pink packets. Not one, not 3, not 0, but two.
I had another where I was sitting once at a client's site.
You know, a lot of times I stay overnight at the client sites
because it's cheaper for the client and I, I can see more
when I'm there. And, and I was having breakfast
with a couple of the residents and the server came in and there

(27:09):
was a bowl of fruit. And, you know, the one guy had
those big blackberries in his bowl with the strawberries and
the raspberries and whatever. And the other one didn't.
And so I asked the server afterward, why was that?
Why was the difference? Well, Missus Jones doesn't like
black, so I always pick them outbefore I give it to her.
And I thought, wow, that's like private club level where they

(27:29):
know you enough and the service is elevated enough and subtly
elevated that it, it, it's what she wants.
And I mean, those are the kinds of happy surprises I love to
catch when I'm, when I'm workingwith a client.
Those those those are employees that are worth their their
weight in gold. Yeah.
I mean, I love we started talking about the getting to

(27:51):
know the prospect from the salesperspective, but then also as
they become residents too. I think it's so important to
keep that through. But I want to shift the
conversation to the the baby boomer generation because I
think this is where senior living is really struggling.
One data point that I found it said that while Boomers hold 51%

(28:11):
of US household wealth, their median liquid net worth is only
250,000, making many unable to afford current independent
living or CCRC pricing. But what do you think providers
get wrong about boomer messaging?
Where to start? You know, I think that they,
there's a certain assumption that they're like the people

(28:31):
that we've been serving this last decade or so.
And the reality is, is boomers are different and they, they
have not been as faithful stewards about their own
financial wherewithal as they need to be.
And we see the the data point that you talked about, you know,
I mentioned it in in and my bookMarket Forces, we see it all the

(28:53):
time. And we see even worse that baby
boomers with debt, especially the younger boomers.
So somebody who is 677072 years old still have debt and mortgage
debt on a home that was unheard of 25 years ago.
And they probably got credit card debt.
And in some cases they've got education debt or because they

(29:15):
Co signed for a grandchild to goto school and grandchild's not
paying off the loan. So grandma is having to dip it
in her savings. And so there's like this
different attitude toward money.And so I think providers have
assumed that they're, you know, because there are certain media
outlets that are touting, you know, the the average net worth

(29:36):
is $1,000,000 or whatever. Well, average is not median.
Median is the number that we look at because median means
that half are above half are below average means you can have
all of these huge, huge outliers.
So you could have, you know, 20 billionaires in that that pool
that make it seem like it's bigger, but it's not because

(29:57):
that wealth is is really tucked away in a much smaller cadre.
So I think price points is one that providers are going to have
to be much more attuned and sensitive to as things move on.
And I think the other thing thatthat providers struggle with and
that's understanding that boomers are going to be making

(30:18):
more choices as they age about lifestyle, not care.
And it's the lifestyle that they're going to lead that will
that will engage them first. But yet a lot of properties have
so many services and resources bundled into their pricing.
So it makes the pricing bigger or higher.

(30:39):
And then and then the care needsare more observable and more
expected. And I'm like, well, I'm not
ready for that yet. And, and yes, as providers, you
have to care for people along their ageing continuum.
So having the services is 1 thing, but how you message it
for those that you're trying to attract to your property versus

(30:59):
those that you're trying to carefor.
And that's where it gets back tothe things like the messaging
that we were talking about at the beginning of our
conversation. You know, you've got two
different audiences. And so we've done some things
creatively where we've worked onfocusing, you know, we created a
magazine for the client. I worked with the client team I
worked with at Mayo where it was, it was it was really

(31:20):
designed for the 200 people on the wait list.
And it was was dining and it wasfitness and health Wellness.
And it was showcasing the resources at the site and
showing how people were living active, happy lives.
They're using those resources tosupport their healthy aging.

(31:40):
And it was a very different message than for those who were
aging in place and had been there for 10 years and we're now
starting to transition because they needed care.
So you have to recognize that your marketing is often going to
have to have a multiple level ofbifurcation, if you will,
separation where there are messages that are those external

(32:01):
for what you need for attractionand then the internal messaging
for how you care for people as they age in place.
And all too often I think providers are over emphasizing
care and boomers aren't ready for that yet.
The other thing is we see especially older boomers and
we're just now starting to hit 80 year old boomers.

(32:21):
So honestly, folks, here's the other issue.
They're not your customers yet. We're probably another three
years before we're going to three to five years before we're
going to really start to see that influx.
And, and so we still have to, tonavigate through how we're
providing services and, and resources and managing your own

(32:42):
finances so that you don't just randomly bump your prices by 5%
annually. Because the compounded impact of
that over a longer period of time is you're unaffordable to
everybody. And we've had clients where
we've gone in and we've done a reassessment of remarket
feasibility, if you will. And the reality is, is, you

(33:04):
know, look, you're only affordable to 9% of your local
market. You have become so in a so
expensive, no one can afford youand you cannot fill a building
if only 9% of the market can afford you.
So then it becomes a question offlexibility and pricing.
You know, do you have so much bundled into your fee structure

(33:28):
that it you have become untenable to to that audience
who isn't looking for all of that just yet, but might want to
add it. And I think the other part of it
is as an industry, I don't thinkwe're as quite as transparent
about money, particularly as youget into the assisted living and
memory care area. We often, you know, when we're

(33:51):
we're touring and talking with providers, there is no
capability to have a realistic assessment of what it might cost
to have mom move into assisted living.
They'll give you some BS price sheet that has a low level
ticket and that's basically if you can get them to fess up to
it. That lowest level number that
they starting from is basically meals and activities.

(34:15):
You get no services, no extra resources and then the levels of
care on top of it, but you have no way of knowing.
Well, well, we'll assess mom when she's moving in.
Well, I got to know that before I can move her in because I
don't know how long her money's going to last.
I don't know, you know, are we looking at 6000 a month roughly?
And you know, I'm like, I'm not going to hold you to the number,

(34:37):
but I need some better sense of it.
And I think a lot of providers are afraid to be transparent
with prospects because it is so expensive.
And people start to see it's going to cost 60 to $70,000 for
mom to live here. She doesn't have that kind of
money. And then you have to talk them
off the ledge and go, wait a second.

(34:59):
Your mom has some pension money and some Social Security income
that she gets. So there's there's resources
there and you're in what we callthe spend on.
So let me help hope you understand a little bit more
about how that works, how you can stagger it.
You're not pulling that money all out at 11 point, you know,
and in in working it through. But I think there's another

(35:20):
dirty little secret in the industry and that is that a lot
of the baby boomer adult children are not paying the
bills for mom and dad because they want to preserve the assets
in the nest egg that they will inherit.
And so they're like, well, you know, it's a nonprofit provider.
They've got benevolent care. They can they can just take care
of it, even though that wasn't the deal.
So there's a two way dance here that has to be done where the

(35:45):
families have to own up. But I've had providers that have
have been very candid about the pressure that they have been put
under by family members who haven't met the family
obligation. And they have a heart.
They're not going to toss mom who's that frail at, you know,
at 92 out on on her ear. But yet you can understand why

(36:06):
some providers will make those choices because they just can't
afford to be the charity care for everybody and their brother
it for people who have means. And so some of it is the helping
to educate the families about that and they'll work with you.
I remember my mother-in-law didn't have a lot of money.
And so I'm like trying to, you know, get every little nickel I
could out of her investment portfolio from the sale of her

(36:28):
home. And, you know, I'd walk in with
the check to the, to the, to the, the, the the accountant.
I'm like, you know, if you can hold that check till the end of
next week, she has one more investment payment that's going
to be coming in on Thursday and that'll pay for her haircuts for
the rest of the year. So, you know, there's a little
bit I understand if you need to,but if you can hold it, you

(36:49):
know, like countless like through the check in her drawer
and she's like for you, I will because you know, I, I pay it
and the checks clear. So, you know, sometimes people
work with you, but I think you have to be willing to work with,
with the providers. But it's I think with boomers
too, this whole lifestyle thing.I mean, if you, if you look at

(37:10):
the GI generation, which is the generation when I first started
working in this industry, we were serving, you know, their,
their whole thing was watching Jack Lalanne do exercises on TV,
you know, and now you've and I'mpeople think you've got people
in the audience going, who's Jack Lalanne?
Who's Jack Lalanne? He had a really weird little
jumpsuit that he wore and he wason TV in black and white and he

(37:33):
would do exercises. Today you've got older adults
who are actively working on their fitness.
They are doing strength training, they are doing cardio,
they are riding bicycles. They are doing much more active
things than, you know, sitting in a chair and doing leg lifts.

(37:54):
And those older adults are goingto age a little bit better and
be easier for your teams to workwith because they're going to
have a little bit more muscle mass to work with.
And, and they'll be able to emulate longer.
And they'll be in a position where they can instead of having
to have a two person transfer ora Hoyer lift because they've got
some muscle mass. You can use that single person

(38:16):
transfer if, if you have to, to help them, but they're also
looking for things like, you know, healthy food choices.
So I think operationally, providers need to step back and
really look hard. What are we providing?
And again, it gets back to this idea that you might have to
serve 2 overlapping audiences inyour community.

(38:38):
And that means having, you know,bingo on Saturday night and you
know, services like that, that, you know, news and whatever.
But you have to have things thatare a little bit more
intellectually challenging as well.
And that's where bringing in educators to to do seminars.
It's more than entertaining the old people where they sit and
watch somebody do something. People are looking for more

(39:01):
interactive experiences. They want to be a part of
something and you know, they want to give back to the
community. So there's lots of things that
you can do in your activities and programming that will allow
you to do that, but you have to do it intentionally.
I think a lot of providers are just delegating all of that
activity programming to their activity team without thinking

(39:23):
about what are we actually positioning?
And I'll never forget I was in, I, I made an activity director
cry once and I, I didn't mean to, but it had to be said.
And I was in the elevators. We were going on the building
tour. It was beautiful building.
Very it was upscale. And you know, they were doing an
OK job of bringing in some younger, older adults.

(39:44):
But you know, they were they, their occupancies were really
struggling. I was looking at the activity
calendar that they had on the wall and they would have signs,
you know, for today we have thisinstead of the big wall full
month calendar that you could hardly read.
And and I was like, so what's sit and knit?
And salesperson just, you know, rolled her eyes and groaned and

(40:06):
she's like, I can't even explainit.
Go talk to our activity director.
So I went and talked to the activity director and it was,
you know, they were basically knitting caps for pre neonatal
unit at the local hospital for infants.
But I said you realize that sit and knit.
In a prominent position on your community doesn't convey the

(40:28):
kind of message that it needs toconvey to the audience that we
need to bring into the building to keep it active and full.
And I'm like, I'm really sorry, but you're going to have to
change the name of that. You don't have to change the
purpose or what you do, but you need to have a different name
because the other thing I've learned is that people also
refer to it as sit and bitch. So we need to have this as

(40:50):
something that's a little bit more elevated and a little bit
more appealing to people. And she was so mortified and so
upset. And, you know, they changed it.
I forget not what we changed it to, but it was it was about
recognizing that the things thatwe've just done, because we've
been doing them, everything needs a fresh look.

(41:10):
And I would encourage providers to do that at least on an annual
basis to sit down and take a hard look.
Have the sales and marketing team talk about, you know, the
kinds of calls that we're getting from prospects that are
coming in, the ones that aren't coming in to tour, that aren't
self wedding out because financially they don't think
they can afford us. Is there like I'm not ready for

(41:31):
that yet. So what is it that we're
positioning that's making peoplefeel like they have to be ready
for us because we are we over bundling care, are our programs
and activities all, you know, Hospice programs and and
Parkinson's support groups and Alzheimer's support groups.
And that's what we're promoting and everything that we have

(41:53):
versus are we also promoting on our Facebook page and some of
the other things that are more public facing, some of the more
interesting activities that we have that we're offering that
are more appealing, you know, and that and they're seeing us
as partners to the local Senior Center.
They see that our van goes to the local Senior Center.

(42:13):
Well, when your van goes there, that means that those residents
are still engaging with the outside community.
And a lot of providers, they stop, they have everything is
focused on the internal to the community.
And if you want to connect with baby boomers, if you want to
connect with people who aren't quite at the mature age that
you're attracting now, which formost providers, even an

(42:34):
independent living is, you know,8384, If you want to tip that
needle down a little bit, you have to have things that you
bring your residents to in the community that are more than
church and shopping. They need to be connected to the
local community. So the people go, oh wow, that
whole group of ladies, they're look like they're having fun at
the, you know, at the concert orat the at the play.

(42:58):
Well, I, you know, I'd really like to be part of something
like that. And again, it's that FOMO, that
fear of missing out with that you can start to build with the
impressions that people have that this is a place that I can
come and live my life. And if and when I need it,
they'll have those other resources there.
But I can still live my independent life and I can still

(43:20):
have a life. And me living here doesn't mean
that my life is ending. It's just a new phase of life.
And I think that's the part thatthey need to really reinforce.
Because there's so many boomers coming into the market, I mean,
is it advisable for communities to really look at adapting their
approach to a younger audience to try to capture them sooner?

(43:40):
But if they do that, are they alienating older residents or is
there a way to capture both? I know you mentioned that you're
kind of speaking to two audiences.
Well, I think it's you program differently.
You have programs that are more appropriate for that, more
mature, doesn't go out and you don't have to have everything
outside and active or whatever, but you just need to have a mix

(44:02):
and a balance. But I also really caution
people, unless you have an active adult community, it is
going to be very difficult for you to attract baby boomers for
a while. You know, active adult is
fitting that niche where, you know, they're getting people in
their mid 70s and and you know, anywhere from 70 to 78.

(44:25):
And most of the time when those people move in, they stay for
eight years, 7 to 8 years. And, and, but they like that
it's a rental. They like that they have, you
know, everything that they need.They like that they have that
sense of community because they have, you know, a fitness
center. If they that if they want to go
in and use, they can do, they'vegot a community room or maybe

(44:49):
they do a potluck or people, youknow, there's the manager puts a
pot of coffee on in the morning and people come and have their
coffee. But it's not overly regimented
and it's not overly programmed active boomers, which is where
we're going to be at for a while.
They are not looking for an overly programmed life.

(45:09):
And so if your community is not allowing that potential younger
audience to spend a little less and live their life how they
want, it's going to be a harder sell.
And you're going to have to waitfor people to age in place
because they are attracted to some of the more subtle levels

(45:30):
of care that you're providing and offering.
And, and whereas somebody who's in their mid 70s, there's,
they're off doing their thing, they, you know, they want to
travel, they want to be a, they want to lock their, their
apartment and go be a snowbird or travel in an RV or go be a
volunteer at the food shelf. They're doing things.

(45:53):
And I think all too often providers, they have over
managed the life of their residents.
And so when you're looking at your programming, yes, you do
have to have that level of service for those who've aged in
place. But this is where I was saying
you have to have kind of two paths, a little bit of your
activities in programming. But the reality is, is there's a
lot of active adult development and, and that is essentially age

(46:16):
restricted housing. These are people that they want
the maintenance free living. They don't want to have kids.
You know, it's OK to have grandkids come and visit, but
please take them away at the endof the day.
And, and, you know, they, they want to be around their friends.
They want to be able to have a little bit of a sense of
community. They want to know that, you
know, there are at least people who might be looking out for

(46:38):
them, you know, both outgoing. Oh, you have to check in by
10:00, you know, or we'll come to your apartment.
You know, it's more that softer casual thing that they that that
are happening and active adult is such a strong product right
now. And it's also a significantly
less expensive because it doesn't have all the bundled

(46:59):
services into it. There's no housekeeping, there's
no meal program, there's no transportation program.
You know, the the fitness program is is pretty much non
existent. They have a fitness room, but
you do it yourself. And if you want a personal
trainer, you hire your own trainer and you're on your own.
And so every little thing that gets added in and bundled pushes

(47:23):
you to an older, older audience.And so I think a lot of people
are really wanting to tap into that boomer perspective, but yet
either they don't have the the style of units that are
appealing, you know, because maybe it's a 30 year old
property that has limited retrofitting capability.

(47:44):
Well, active adult, they do havethose washer dryers in their
unit. You're not going to have that
common area to make that becomesthe choice they have to make.
And and they're they're not looking for that regimented
managed thing. I get calls from people who are
looking at developing active adult that are wanting to bundle

(48:05):
some things in. Well, you know, if we just do
like one meal a week or we bringin some activity program, like
no, typically those are residentrun, resident run, resident
controlled. The minute you start trying to
design their lifestyle, you havenow begun to morph into
something that is going to be less and less appealing to them.

(48:26):
And you know, you can do it. And the reason that they're
doing it, Sherry, is they want to build more revenue into the.
They want their monthly fees to be higher.
And I'm like, yeah, but you're going to have to hire staff to
do that. So let's explain why that to you
is not as optimal. Where are you going to hire the
people to come in and do this? The food service that one or two
days a week or that brunch on Sunday or that other class or

(48:50):
that, you know, how are you going to to manage that activity
and how are you going to pay forit?
Senior living providers in the community can't find the people
to work in their established places of business.
How are you going to be different enough that with your
limited program are going to be an appealing option?
All of a sudden they just are. Like we hadn't really thought
about it like that. The longevity though that you

(49:12):
can get with appealing to a younger audience.
So I think that's where the revenue is.
Like I saw a statistic a couple years ago, I don't know if it's
still true, but it said something along the lines of the
average CCRC resident stays for 14 years.
You know, it, it varies depending on the geographic
area. It can be 10 to 15, but but the
reality is, is they're coming inat roughly 80 and they're living

(49:33):
to be 90 or 92. So what where the where the real
benefit is, is because of the socialization, because their
nutrition is better, because they are actually getting
regular meals or access to mealsthat have a better nutritional
content. But it's the socialization that
is so vital for most people thatbecause it impacts their

(49:55):
cognitive capability, you know, when you're playing cards or
interacting with other people, you know, there's, there's, it's
making your brain cells move a little bit.
And, and so a lot of times with,and then with the advances in
medical care as well, and now you've got nurses on staff who
are helping to manage those chronic conditions more
effectively. So if mom is diabetic or, you

(50:17):
know, has other kinds of of morecomplex conditions, because they
have nurses on staff, they can actually still live their life.
They just need a little bit moresupport to do that.
And and so that's why you end upseeing them live longer, but
they're not necessarily coming in at 75 and living to, you
know, to into their mid 80s. They're coming in at 80 or 82

(50:41):
and living longer into their night well into their 90s.
And you see a lot of them, they have, you know, 100 year
resident club and it's like, youknow, but those people lived
there for a long time because they came in.
The other thing to keep in mind when you look at a stat like
that is at the time that a lot of those people moved in, there
weren't as many options. Consumers today have so many

(51:03):
more options and opportunities. They didn't have things like
home healthcare 20 years ago. They didn't have, you know, the
type of ability to leverage, youknow, we're starting to see
technology where I have a pill dispenser in my home and you
can, you know, zoom in with me like on a Zoom call and you can,

(51:23):
you know, my pills come down andyou watch me take them and off I
go and, you know, whatever. So you've got the Peace of Mind
knowing that I took my daily meds and I still have my ability
to live in my home that I've lived in for 45 years.
And, and so there are tools and resources that are going to
advance aging in place. And so I, I think that we just

(51:45):
as an industry need to be realistic about who is going to
be appealed, who our product is appealing to, and then create,
you know, like a little bit moreopening at the beginning, at
those ages to make it appeal a little bit more.
And then creating those pathwaysas people age in place in the

(52:06):
building, because everybody's journey is a little bit
different. And you have couples, I love it.
I tell marketing people shoot for the couples because you'll
typically get a year or two younger because the, the spouses
are often at least two years younger.
And so the singletons are older when they come in because
they've been living alone and, you know, struggling more and
trying to balance things. But if you can get a couple, you

(52:29):
have them for a much longer period of time because as they
age differently than let's say the husband dies a few years in,
the spouse is cared for or she has a secure place to live.
That's part of why they made thedecision.
And she's already got her established social network.
She's got people and staff around that know who she is that

(52:52):
that knew him. And all of a sudden it's a very
different dynamic than trying tomove in after you've been
widowed for a while. And so you can get them younger.
We see it all the time in the demographic data of the resident
population. When we get when we get those
data files and it's, you know, couples is typically younger.
You know, you have that added longevity, if you will, for the,

(53:16):
the revenue stream of some capacity in a property.
If you've got a couple that's come them in and so those are
those are fun ones as well, But you still have to have a product
that appeals to the local community, that appeals to the
to the market as their needs areshifting and changing.
You know who who'd heard a pickleball five to seven years
ago? Certainly not me.

(53:38):
And, you know, it doesn't mean you need a pickle, but it's,
it's thinking about, you know, what is it that we need to do an
offer to appeal? I mean, I had clients 25 years
ago that you could not have an alcoholic beverage on site.
You could not have a pet on site.
So they had prospects that were delaying their admission until

(53:59):
their cats died. And, you know, true story.
And so all of a sudden now you see you've got pet parks on
properties and pet washes and, and, you know, bars in the
building and, you know, happy hours.
So the industry continues to evolve, and it's because
providers have had to evolve with the changing needs and life

(54:22):
and lifestyle and interests of the people that they're trying
to serve and their local community.
And the more you know about thatlocal community, not just
because you assume it, but because you are actually
connecting with the local community, you can anticipate
those shifts and trends. And, and I think leaders have to
be ready, willing and able to doa little bit of experimenting

(54:45):
every now and then. You know, I'm not talking about,
you know, millions of dollars ofrenovations, but sometimes you
have to try a few new things to see how they'll land and they'll
hit. And and that anytime you go
through transition kind of the way, the best way to manage it
is manage your way, navigate your way through it in small
incremental bits. Be curious to see how many

(55:05):
marketing teams are targeting couples, married couples like
you're talking about. And that seems like a logical,
solid strategy in terms of getting residents that have
better longevity, better health.And they're more likely to move
because it's a joint decision rather than somebody resisting
because they they don't want to leave their home that they had
for the last 30 years. And now they're all by

(55:26):
themselves. Well, which is typically the
case. And I think that's where, you
know, now you can overdo it. So you have to have a balance in
this because there are more singletons then there are
couples as you as you age. So you don't want your
singletons to not feel welcomed.But you know, it's, it's
intentionally doing things like,you know, creating which

(55:47):
photographs do you choose? And it's, it's looking at
pictures where there, it might be a couple that are having
dinner in your fine dining portion of your building.
And then the next photograph is 3 ladies that are together.
And you know, some sites have 40% men, which is, you know,
that that's an anomaly as well. And so when we see data like

(56:09):
that, and then I'm like looking at the website, your website's
all women, you need to see some men into the photograph.
So you have to look at it relative to, to that market.
But you know, the, the couples piece, again, I think it's, it's
an, it can be an intentional strategy, but it also becomes
how do you language with the couples?

(56:31):
Because a lot of times one of the things, especially with an
entrance fee community with a CCRC, the reason that they're
looking at the CCRC is because one or both of them is starting
to worry that, you know, maybe they've had one of them's had a
health issue and they're worried.
I need to make sure that that myspouse is well established and

(56:53):
well situated. Those folks are planners.
They are, they want to plan their future.
They don't want their kids to make the decision for them.
They want to make the decision for themselves, them
individually or for them as as acouple.
And so it becomes a very important understanding to know
what's the conversation that you're having with people.

(57:14):
You know, when you can create the differences that you know,
you both can have activities here because Mary, you like to
bird watch and and play bridge and Joe, you like to do
woodworking. Well, we have a little bit of
here for both of you. And what's great is then you
still have the opportunity with,you know, our evening, certain,

(57:35):
you know, dining to dine and to get to know others and you know,
to do things together. But it becomes the, I think for
the sales and marketing team where it impacts the occupancy
is are you in the conversation with them to help them move the
needle forward on how this manages them and their security
as a couple and why it's so beneficial for a couple because

(58:00):
it's not unlikely that they willage differently.
And so to have the access to theresources and the care and the
services that they both need while they're living
independently and while they're their needs change over the long
term can best be handled for both of them and accommodated in
a CCRC environment. And, but a lot of times they're

(58:21):
so busy selling, you know, the washer and dryer or you know,
here's your cupboards. We have an extra closet space
for another $50.00 a month. You can rent an extra storage
unit down in our our lower level.
And they're all about the place.They're not about the life and
lifestyle. And I think the salespeople that
I have interacted with over 3 decades that have been the most

(58:42):
successful have been the salespeople who tie the life and
lifestyle to how you will live in the building.
And and they don't tie the building to what they sell, they
tie the life and lifestyle to how they sell them.
I wanted to switch gears, but I think the last thing I wanted to
talk to you about and the last thing I want to talk to you
about today because I need to have you back on this is like an

(59:04):
ongoing conversation. I.
Would love that. I would love that a lot to
offload to the industry. Yeah, no, this is such great
knowledge. So thank you for sharing my
pleasure. The last thing I want to talk
about was I think corporate strategy, because I think this
is something that that a lot of regional providers get wrong.
I see a lot of regional providers.

(59:24):
They have a small marketing teamthat sits in their corporate
office. They don't have anyone on the
ground in the communities. I think that can kill local
momentum and I think there's quite a few other things as
well. How can corporate strategy
misfire at the local level? What have you seen?
How do we have another hour? Oh, you know, it's, I love the
idea of corporate marketing because it's maximizing

(59:48):
resources. They can create content that,
you know, can make my life easier in the local community,
but they have to listen to the local on site people.
I have had many clients over theyears where.
The biggest problem that we see when we get in and we're doing
the deep dive, try and figure out is it market, is it

(01:00:10):
marketing, you know, where is the issue?
Where is the disconnect? Why is occupancy failing?
And very often there are things that are happening at the
regional and corporate level that are because the regional
corporate level wants it done. It has a complete mismatch to
the market and that can be everything from pricing
structure. I had one client that, you know,

(01:00:33):
they're, they had a very unusualcontract for their CCRC and they
were selling in a life care market and their competitors
were selling their product against them.
Their own residents didn't understand that they had
weren't, they hadn't bought lifecare because everybody they knew
was in a life care community. Well, isn't it?
I thought this was all part of it.

(01:00:55):
We'll know if you read your contract.
It says you only get so many days and and so it became, you
know, a really big issue. But and the reason that they
were doing it was because that was the contract that corporate
wanted, because they wanted all their sites to be the same.
Let me explain it this way. Senior living is not Starbucks.

(01:01:17):
You cannot commoditize the experience to the same degree
and level that you can when you're selling something like
coffee as when you're selling a lifestyle and a living and a
caring community. And it has to be activity
programming has to be relative to the local market.

(01:01:38):
In some markets, playing pinochle is the big thing.
In some markets, it's bridge. And you can't say our activity
programs have to be this becausewe want it from a corporate
perspective. So everybody uses the same
newsletter. The other thing I hate, and I
hate it with the deepest part ofmy entire is cororate websites

(01:01:59):
for local communities where theyget a single page and it's as
impersonal as it could possibly be.
It does nothing to sell the lifeor lifestyle.
It's got a a handful of picturesand if I'm clicking around on
the site, I'm often completely pulled off of the website.
Now, I, I understand there's lots of reasons for why folks

(01:02:20):
might from a digital perspectivewant to do that.
But you know, as somebody who, who's you looking at websites
and trying to look at it from a consumer's point of view, it
becomes impossible to, to get a really nuanced feel for a
community when it's all corporate regimented or the
clients that acquire a community.

(01:02:41):
Oh, these are my favorite where,where a big enterprise acquires
a community and the first thing they want to do is change the
name so that it's under their branding.
Well, you know what, I got news for you.
If it's this relatively small town, they're going to be still
calling it by the original name even in 10 to 15 years.
You can just spend a lot of money on that rebranding and

(01:03:01):
it's probably not going to be asbeneficial.
And I think a lot of times, you know, it's it's they don't pay
attention. I had one provider that I was
was talking with, they were a friendly competitor to my client
and they had a corporate marketing department that
insisted that they do Facebook ads promoting skilled nursing
direct admissions to to rehab units.

(01:03:23):
And the problem was is this sitewas so well known for their
sniff rehab. They had no vacancies.
They didn't have any problem filling their units.
And instead of not including them in the Facebook triage that
they were doing, they did well. The poor marketing person was
inundated with calls because everybody in their local market

(01:03:45):
thought that there was space andthey wanted to do it.
So she spent all this time with people who were totally pissed
off at her because, well, then why did you do the ad if there's
no, you know, vacancy at the end?
And, and it was because corporate wouldn't listen and
didn't adjust to the nuance of what was really happening in
that local market. Now, there's a lot of things

(01:04:06):
that corporate marketing does well and does better.
You guys understand social mediamarketing, you understand
placement, but you have to work with your local team to help
them make it personal. You have to help them understand
and approve the visuals. You know, there's a lot of
visuals since some sales team stake that you're like, oh, Lord
have mercy. You cannot put that on on the

(01:04:27):
Internet. Please don't put that on there.
You know, it needs to be croppedjust a little bit better looking
for smiling, happy people that look like they want to be there.
Not just a picture to have a picture, but a picture that
represents. And that's what corporate can
can really be helpful on. They can be helpful in, in
structuring content, but making it personal to that local
community and not being so overly branded in the the

(01:04:50):
stylizing of things that it loses the personality in the
community feel. And I think there's ways that
they can sync together, but I find that a lot of times
corporate is the worst one I hadwas there was a salesperson.
It was a struggling community. We were down doing the deep dive
trying to figure what was going on and the salesperson had never

(01:05:11):
sold anything. She had, We used to work for
county, for the local government, but everybody in
town knew her and loved her. She was the perfect person, but
she didn't know how to sell. She didn't know how to ask for
the order. And and I'll never forget the
corporate marketing person said under no circumstances are you

(01:05:31):
to talk to her about sales. Like, OK, so then the further I
get into it, it's quite clear what the problem is.
So I had this conversation with Marie and I'm like, so Marie,
now I'm not talking to you as a sales advisor, but if I was one
of the things I might suggest that you think about trying

(01:05:52):
might be, but it but again, I'm not I'm not not coaching you or
giving you any advice. And it after the third time I
said that kind of phrasing, she realized what I was doing.
You know, it, it gave her what she needed because she wasn't
getting what she needed from corporate because they were in
their heads about whatever it was that they wanted for

(01:06:12):
selling, but they weren't connecting it in a way that was
helping her reduce her anxiety, enhance her her ability to
perform. And all it took was a couple
nuanced suggestions because she and a little bit of
encouragement because she had everything she needed to be
successful. She had the relationship.
She was visible in the community.

(01:06:33):
She just didn't know how to talkabout the services and the
resources in the building. And once she had some insight
about it's not, you know, rocketscience, you know, then she was
off like a rocket because she could take the strengths that
she had, which were the reasons she was hired and, and apply
them to things that made a difference.
But you know, she probably had 6to 8 months of more anxiety and

(01:06:57):
failure than she needed because corporate had their perspective
about what it would be and didn't give her the resources
that she needed to understand. Circling back to to just
corporate strategy in general from a digital perspective side,
I can weigh on on that because we do work with some multi
location providers. And one of the things that we've
seen is a lot of them that have the multi location websites

(01:07:19):
where they have everything underone domain.
That used to work well because the only things that used to
matter really were domain history of the number of pages
you had on your website and thenwho's linking to you.
But now all of your competitors are just as tech savvy.
They're all digital digitally marketing their communities now.
So you're going up against a lotmore competitors and if there's

(01:07:41):
one one community that has its own standalone website and you
have one page on your website dedicated to your community in
that area, there's no way you'regoing to compete with an entire
website that's built authentically representing that
one community. So I think the time has come now
where providers, these regional providers and corporate teams
really have to think about building separate websites for

(01:08:02):
each community. It's really going to help
benefit overall visibility for each.
One and and jury, that's where people like yourself, the advice
and the knowledge, you know, I, I know enough to be be in
troublemaker, but you know, enough to be able to execute.
And, and that is different. And that's the other thing that
that corporate folks forget and providers forget is the game is

(01:08:23):
always changing. And so you need, you know, I'll
never forget fighting with one of the marketing directors for
what became, you know, a 20 yearclient relationship.
It was a CCRC in Ohio, fabulous community, still one of my all
time favorites. But she still had, you know, 20
to $30,000 budgeted. And this is 20 years, 20 plus
years ago for yellow page ads. That's those books.

(01:08:47):
For those of you that don't knowwhat a Yellow Pages book was,
there used to have books with phone numbers and ads in them.
And, and, and I kept telling her, no, we need to shift to
some community things and we need to shift to some digital
ads and we need to have this thing called a website.
And, you know, and oh, we foughtlike 2, you know, elk in the
woods. And, you know, I won and, you
know, she became a good friend at, you know, over time, but she

(01:09:10):
would just didn't understand it.And I think that that the
message that you're sharing is that the game is changing is so
important for providers to understand because what worked
pre COVID, what worked five years ago, what worked three
years ago, the game is changing again.
And so you have to be nimble enough to respond so that you

(01:09:32):
can stay in the game, so that you can be visible, that you can
leverage the real estate of thatInternet platform to position
everything that you want to position about that life and
lifestyle at that community. And augmenting it with video and
augmenting it with, you know, the other other kinds of, you

(01:09:53):
know, if you have podcast recordings or, you know, don't
just rely on your written content.
People are, you know, it's, it'sthe game is changing on that,
especially as younger people aregetting in.
You know, that's the whole reason that some of the social
media has taken off is that, youknow, 4045 year olds are, you
know, they don't want to read 50pages to get the answer.

(01:10:14):
Give it to me in the high level,give me high level Nuggets and
then give me a click that I can get if I want a deeper dive.
And I think that that you using tools like the digital platforms
create opportunities for you to have a lot more control over how
you're perceived. And you know, everybody assumes
that when people find you on theInternet that that they found

(01:10:38):
you just through SEO. Often times it's because that
trusted local person at the Senior Center said you should
check out XYZ campus. And I go home and I search for
XYZ campus and that's how I'm actually getting to your
website. But what's the experience I have
when I get to the website versusthose who are in that truly

(01:10:59):
early stage that are just cold searching and just using
keywords for search? So you have to, to be in the
game at all different levels and, and be able to respond.
And that's where I think with somebody with your background
and your firm's background really can level people up in a
way that if they just try and rely on the same old, same old

(01:11:20):
is, the game's not going to workfor them as well.
It's interesting too, because it's what worked before isn't
working now, but what has alwaysworked will continue to work.
And I know that sounds like an odd juxtaposition when it comes
to marketing, but it's all aboutlocal.
It's always been about local. Every single community we've
ever worked with, 90 to 95% of their residents live within 10

(01:11:42):
miles of the community. So it is local search all the
way. If you are not optimized for
local, you're never going to winthat game.
And it doesn't matter how peopleare searching.
That's changing now. It's not just Google, it's all
the different AI platforms that people are using to get results.
But at the end of the day, it's the same.
You know, Google's been doing itfor 20 years.
They've been providing augmentedsearch results and now we're

(01:12:04):
seeing it through through AI andit's a totally different lens,
but same, same, same. So exactly.
Yeah, I can't stress that enough.
You know, the online a place formom and some of the other ones
you know, it's it's a whole different game, you know, and as
they've been, but it's like how many providers actually go and
look at what's been positioned for them on those various

(01:12:25):
community websites. So if you search assisted living
in Milwaukee or assisted living in Madison, you know what's
coming up and look at the websites that's pulling up the
provider list and then look at your sites profile on those
lists. And then, you know, you've got
people, everybody and their brother is giving you a review,

(01:12:47):
you know, and so if you've got some irritated former employee,
you know, they can go put something on the website.
And, and, you know, I've had clients that we're dealing with
that have had some reputational damage done because they weren't
monitoring things. And all of a sudden they had
quite a few bad reviews, you know, and now what do you do?
Because there are people who, well, they're start, they don't

(01:13:09):
have enough stars. I can't, I can't tour them.
And so your occupancy can be impacted by reviews that maybe
aren't as authentic as they might have appeared to be.
You know, you got to be able to be a master to understand all of
it. And, and I think that's where
providers like yourself and resource partners really can,

(01:13:31):
can step up and level the game for you and help you figure out,
you know, what are all the things that we can control
because we didn't have things like that 30 years ago.
If somebody was really mad at you, they were telling people
that they had coffee with a local coffee shop.
Now it is on the Internet forever and you can't pull it
down. You might be able to to write an

(01:13:51):
explanation. So there's a lot of challenges
to navigating and managing and the salespeople, you know,
they're trying to figure out what they're, you know, next 10
calls are going to be. And who do I have to follow up
with this week? And well, they don't have the
often the skill or the technicalcapacity to be able to

(01:14:12):
understand the impact of all those things.
But boy, they sure still should be on top of, you know, how are
we being positioned in the marketplace and then and
encouraging people that are having satisfied experiences.
I would really appreciate you doing a Google review.
If you'd like to do the review, I can help you with getting on
the Internet to do it, but you need to do it yourself.

(01:14:33):
I'll step out of the room while you do it.
But you know, it's like, ask forwhat you need to because it
makes a difference these days. Yeah, it seems like such a
simple thing, but not enough. Not enough communities are doing
it. They don't pay attention to it.
They're, they're too busy and they're operationally focused.
And you know, I see a lot more now than I even used to see if
1015 years ago because the staffis so compressed and stressed

(01:14:58):
and frankly disconnected. And there was a lot of
disconnect that happened becauseof COVID where people who had
just given their all to the industry and gave everything and
then some that they had during COVID, they just weren't really
as appreciated by families or byresidents.
And you know, the residents are a little bit different today

(01:15:18):
than they were. The lack of gratitude, you know,
is, is pretty pronounced in somecommunities.
And, and I've had some of the finest people that I've known
that have left the industry because they just were done.
And as an industry, we need to do better to help people find
ways to reconnect with the passion and with the value that

(01:15:41):
they bring to this, the end of life journey.
Whatever if end of life is a fewmonths or if it's 12 years that
there is, it's a journey that people go on in.
And I think as providers, we're walking side by side with folk
as they're doing that and with their family.
And I think it's providers can'tlose sight of the value of what

(01:16:03):
they do and offer. And I think we have in some
regards, because we're just tired, just tired.
Yeah, yeah. On that cheery note.
Yeah, yeah, on that cheery note,Well, thank you so much for all
the things that you shared today.
This was such an awesome conversation and I'm I am really
looking forward to the next timewe connect.

(01:16:24):
As am I. Appreciate you.
I appreciate well, you know, you, you did such a great pre
interview and you, you really listen to some of the things.
And so I love that we were able to to bring some of that to the
forefront in in our conversation.
And I look forward to the next path we take.
Me too. Me too, absolutely.
Where can our writings go to learn more about Johnson

(01:16:46):
Consulting Services or connect with you directly?
Sure. They can always reach us via the
website which is www.jcs hyphenusa.com.
Again, that's JCS Johnson Consulting Services, so
jcshyphenusa.com. And we have a whole page on the

(01:17:07):
website about senior living. There's also in the insights and
information tab, there are threewhite papers strictly designed
for the senior living provider and leader.
And so there's one on pricing, there's one on being competitive
in a in a competitive market. And then just a broader
perspective of some of the shifts and changes and market

(01:17:28):
forces is still available on Amazon and maybe we'll do an
update on that. We're still trying to decide if
we can came out pre COVID, but it's still it's still very
relevant today. All right.
As we wrap up today's episode, Iwant to thank Jill Johnson for
bringing her strategic eye and candid voice to this
conversation. From occupancy struggles and
demographic traps to the missed nuances and boomer messages, her

(01:17:52):
perspective challenges us to think bigger than just marketing
fixes and start asking the rightquestions about what our
communities really offer and to whom.
So if you'd like to connect withJill or learn more about her
work at Johnson Consulting Services, make sure I'll link
all of that in the show notes and also include your LinkedIn
so people can reach out to you directly if they want.

(01:18:12):
And as always, we hope you foundthis episode insightful and
inspiring. Don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast on your favorite platform, and stay tuned for
more episodes where we continue to explore the evolving world of
senior care, covering everythingfrom care models and leadership
strategies to policy, technology, and the future of
aging. And also remember that From
Leads to Leases isn't just an audio experience.

(01:18:34):
We're also a video podcast. So if you want to see episodes
like the one here with Jill, subscribe to our YouTube or
Spotify channels to watch the full episode.
So I'm Jerry Vincey, CEO of CCR growth.
Thank you for joining us on fromLeads to Leases and please like,
subscribe, share this episode with anyone who might find it
useful. Until next time, lead with
strategy and with heart. Chat with you again soon.

(01:18:55):
Thanks, Jill. Bye.
Thanks for listening to From Leads to Leases.
Are you ready to fill your roomsfaster and increase occupancy?
Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn about our Senior Growth
Innovation Suite, a proven system to generate highly
qualified tour ready leads, accelerate sales and reduce
acquisition costs. Let's connect and turn your

(01:19:15):
challenges into opportunities. See you next time.

All Episodes

#86 - What Communities Get Wrong About Occupancy, the Boomers, and the Buyer's Journey with Jill Johnson

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#86 - What Communities Get Wrong About Occupancy, the Boomers, and the Buyer's Journey with Jill Johnson