December 3, 2025 • 55 mins
Summary In this episode, Jerry Vinci sits down with Meredith Oppenheim, a 25-year senior housing veteran who spent five years studying the 90% of older adults who never move into senior living through her groundbreaking platform, Vitality Society. Meredith reveals how the industry's persistent 10% penetration rate isn't a marketing failure - it's a fundamental mismatch between what providers offer and what today's older adults actually want. Drawing from her experience advising major operators and launching a virtual wellness community that engaged members for two hours daily during the pandemic, she shares the eight guiding principles that drive the 90% who choose to age at home: being their best version, doing meaningful work, continuous learning, and maintaining control over their lives. The conversation challenges core assumptions about readiness, revealing how the industry's focus on frailty and care alienates active boomers who see senior living as the beginning of the end rather than a new chapter of growth.
Key Insights Meredith emphasizes that innovation in senior living has been stifled by a cycle of reverting to the mean - when experimental communities fail, the industry doubles down on traditional models rather than learning from what didn't work. She advocates for decoupling the experience from the real estate, engaging prospects years before they're ready to move through volunteer opportunities, short stays, and community programming. The discussion explores how the "panini generation" of adult daughters are being squeezed between aging parents and teenage children, creating both challenges and opportunities for providers who can position themselves as care navigators and surrogate daughters. Meredith shares powerful examples, including a woman who searched nationwide for five years before moving into the community where she'd volunteered for 20 years, illustrating how timing, fit, and purpose must align for successful move-ins.
Learn More:
Connect with Meredith Oppenheim on LinkedIn
Takeaways
The 90% who don't move in want growth and expansion, not simplification and decline
Boomers see senior living as restrictive rather than enabling their desired lifestyle
Innovation fails because unsuccessful models get sold and converted back to traditional approaches
Virtual engagement proved older adults want community without the real estate commitment
Adult daughters need providers to be proactive care navigators, not reactive service providers
Lead lists are undervalued - engage prospects for years through programming before they're ready
Flexibility is key - let residents paint where they want, work if they choose, eat when they prefer
Prevention and improvement messaging resonates more than care and convenience
The buyer journey is a complex puzzle where timing, unit type, location, and culture must all align
Providers need multiple service lines to meet people wherever they choose to age
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It was frustrating that no matter what we did and no matter
how we did it or how he said it,we would consistently flatline
at that 10% penetration rate until as an industry, we
understand what the 90% need andwant, we can't progress and
serve the majority of the marketand have an impact on their
lives. What if your entire sales
(00:21):
strategy was targeting the wrongcustomer?
For decades, senior living has focused on frailty and
readiness. But today's guest spent five
years studying the 90% who nevermove in.
And what they want could radically reshape what we build,
how we sell, and who we serve. Welcome to From Leads to Leases,
(00:44):
ACCR Growth podcast that helps senior living providers
transform their complex challenges into opportunities.
Listen in for stories from industry leaders, innovative
strategies and insights, and with our expertise, learn how to
increase occupancy faster, Guaranteed.
Welcome back to another episode of From Leads to Leases, the
(01:05):
podcast that dives deep into thesenior living and senior care
industries, bringing you insights, strategies, and
stories from the experts at the forefront of innovation,
leadership, and care. I'm your host, Jerry Vincey, CEO
of CCR Growth. CCR Growth is a full service
marketing and growth agency that's exclusive to the senior
living industry. Through this podcast, I'm here
(01:25):
to guide you through the evolving landscape of senior
care, exploring the innovations,strategies, and leadership
insights that are shaping the future of the industry.
So whether you're a provider, a caregiver, or industry leader,
this show is here to help you make informed decisions and
create meaningful impact. All right.
Today's guest is Meredith Oppenheim, a senior housing
(01:47):
leader with 25 years of experience advising and growing
portfolios for major owners and operators.
She currently serves as strategic advisor and Chief
growth Officer for one of the largest nonprofit senior housing
providers in the US. She's also the founder of
Vitality Society, a nationally recognized online Wellness
platform for people 60 and better.
(02:08):
Her work has been featured in the New York Times, the Wall
Street Journal, Forbes, ABC, Foxand NBC.
She's a Harvard MBA and Cornell graduate.
Meredith has served on the New York City Department for the
Aging Board and Mayor Bloomberg's Age Friendly
Commission and is also Co authoring a new playbook on the
future of senior living. So Meredith, I am so excited to
(02:31):
talk to you today. Thank you so much for coming on
the show. Thanks Jerry for having me.
I'm delighted to be here. We have quite a bit to cover, so
I want to jump into talking about a pretty important topic
here. There's been a persistent issue
in the senior living space wherethe penetration rate has kind of
stagnated at around 10% of olderadults actually entering senior
(02:54):
living for the past couple decades.
And I know that you uncovered a lot of this by building the
vitality society. Tell me about the Vitality
Society and what it what problemyou're trying to solve.
Absolutely. So after decades in the industry
of senior housing, working for some of the largest owners and
operators, part of communities that were absolutely stunning
(03:18):
and lifestyles that were so appealing, it was so confusing
to me and frustrating to me thatno matter what we did and no
matter how we did it or how he said it, we would consistently
flatline at that 10% penetrationrate.
And I thought to myself, until as an industry we understand
(03:39):
what the 90% needed want, we can't progress and serve the
majority of the market and have an impact on their lives.
So I decided to launch Vitality Society with the idea that I
could get smarter and learn moreif I paused from my day-to-day
senior housing jobs and got to know the people that never moved
(04:01):
in. So Vitality Society was designed
prior to the pandemic. We launched January 2020.
So the timing ended up being quite fortuitous because we went
from being valuable to vital overnight.
So the idea was what happens if you decouple the experience of
senior housing, all the programming from the real estate
(04:24):
and the decision to move or not to move?
Would people engage in a community and a virtual?
What did that? And this was before Zoom was a
household name, right? And I actually didn't have the
answer, but I was curious. So I went out and I designed
this community called Vitality Society with the notion that
around these 8 guiding principles, starting with
(04:46):
allowing older people to be the best version of themselves, we
were going to design fitness, Wellness, enrichment programming
that you would generally see in senior housing, but offer it
from the convenience of someone's home.
And what we saw prior to the pandemic was a very small ramp
up. And as I said, we went from
valuable to vital overnight. So what we really were able to
(05:08):
do was curate content that was very appealing and interesting
to those that we served and the people we served.
My advisors told me men will need it more, but women will
show up more. And she was right because at the
end of the day, we had a subscription service.
It was a dollar a day. The pilot always had above 100
(05:29):
people subscribing and we had seven days of live programming
and I worked diligently to get the best in class providers of
their craft, whether it be fitness or Wellness or
enrichment. We tried to have signature
programming that would really beappealing and compelling.
And what I'm proud to say is that our level of engagement,
(05:52):
which was frankly the most important metric for me because
I couldn't spend many of the providers that had developed
massive repertoires during the pandemic period, but I needed
and wanted to be the most engaging.
And so our subscribers on average participated 2 hours a
week, which was very exciting tous and our super users that top
(06:16):
20%, Jerry, were at the two hours a day.
And so we really became such a vital part and a pillar in these
people's lives. And in some, I'll just say that
we filled a void, right? People really benefited from
from being part of a community. And we know from senior housing
(06:36):
that that's what people benefit and enjoy the most is the
camaraderie and the connection. And so we validated that even
though people choose not to moveinto senior housing, that's
still very important and the idea to help people become that
best version of themselves, which often sadly, people don't
perceive senior housing to do. You know, we were able to
(06:58):
accomplish so we allowed our members by participating in our
programming to develop the stamina, the strength and
stability to live very complete lives and now with more friends
and opportunities. That's amazing.
And I mean, I think the $1,000,000 question, what were
the commonalities, the values, the habits, the goals of people
(07:18):
who never consider moving into acommunity?
What did that look like? So I distilled it down to these
8 guiding principles. So prior to launching Vitality
Society, because I didn't have the answers and I was on this
pursuit to finding them, I realized I said, let me do
research, let me do online focusgroups, let me go to people's
living rooms and talk to them and groups of people that live
around them and let me hear and try to distill down and suss out
(07:42):
like what is it that is really appealing and interesting to
them? And I distilled it down to these
8 guiding principles. And the first one, like I said,
is be be the best version of yourself.
And what I thought and what I learned was that that actually
Jerry means something quite different to everyone and it
changes over time. So what's interesting is for
(08:02):
someone who comes to us who may not be someone who participates
in regular exercising, participating in the 30 minute
seated exercise class was reallyvaluable and interesting and
they were able to progress to these hour long classes.
And then you would other people who demanded that they need
higher intensity classes becauseexercise such a big part of
their lives and they would continued and wanted to do that.
(08:26):
So it was interesting for us in the sense that we had to meet
people where they're at. We wanted to provide a
sufficient challenge so that they could progress.
And this idea of continually improving is a theme that I saw
consistently. The other one was I, which I
love is do right? People want to make a meaningful
(08:47):
contribution in some way, shape or form, whether it be an our
community, we had this program called Vitality University where
they would teach and contribute their expertise or broadly in
their communities, volunteering with different generations, with
their synagogues, with their churches.
We felt that the people that we were serving were actually
(09:08):
really busy and engaged. And again, bringing it back to
senior housing, like we as an industry need to figure out the
models that allow people to comeand engage and do something
meaningful and purposeful. So one good example that has a
wait list and consistently is expanding and always improving
(09:28):
what they do is Garden Spot Village and Pennsylvania.
And they have a service Corp. And these people work together,
prepare together, and they go onthese trips and they contribute
to the world around them and have these like purposeful
programs and they go together and have this impactful
experience. And you know, that is what
senior housing could and should be doing.
(09:50):
So that's another one is to do meaningful work.
And then the other one is Ed, right?
A big one is this continuous learning.
We see this opportunity all the time in senior housing, right?
All these programs that are available to the residents so
that they continue to learn and and grow and explore new areas
and ideas. And this type of pursuit of
(10:12):
continuous learning and knowledge has been
transformative to universities who are trying to appeal to
older people. And this idea of like a
university with inside of seniorhousing is something that I
think is a huge opportunity. And then other principles that
guided us, which were a lot of fun was a meeting new people,
having fun. So I called it highs to laugh
(10:34):
often. That was a big part of what we
needed and wanted to do on our platform.
People had fun, like showing up,getting to know people, enjoying
their company. We had comedians on, we had
laughter yoga. I mean, it was always, like,
really entertaining and interesting at the same time.
And then this idea of high is like, this notion of meeting new
(10:55):
people, right? So as people age, their social
circles tend to shrink, right? So people move away, They pass
away. Spouses, you know, may be
troubled or challenged that theycan't engage and participate in
life as they did. But again, like here's this
opportunity to start meeting newpeople and being with them and,
and, and enjoying their company and the list goes on.
(11:18):
But I, I do want to end with theidea that the last two
principles are very important tomention, right?
So one is Ohm and this idea of peacefulness and mindfulness and
later in life, finding that calmin whatever complexity that
you're dealing with either personally or in your family and
your community. God knows all that's happening,
(11:41):
you know, during the pandemic especially, but then also, oy,
right, this idea of like situations are going to come,
challenges are going to arise. We're going to deal with very
difficult situations that happens in every facet of life
in old ages is a part of that. And so this idea of helping
industry be aware that people's lives and circumstances are
(12:04):
going to change. And we as care navigators,
transition managers, really support older people in allowing
them to smooth out these most challenging parts of their lives
and circumstances. And we as an industry can play a
huge role in doing that. And that's such an opportunity
for our business. How do you think communities can
(12:25):
use these guiding principles to start decoupling the real estate
side from the experience side toattract people sooner in the
process? That's the.
Multibillion dollar question forthe industry, right?
So I started in 2002, Marriott Senior Living right out of
Harvard Business School, and ouraverage age of entry into our
(12:46):
independent living communities was roughly like 7678.
And now we know that the averageage of entry is like 84.
And there's a few reasons for that, right?
People are living longer, healthier lives, right?
And they're delaying that move until they really need it.
And that happens later. And so as an industry, I think
(13:09):
there's a few ways that we can do this.
So number one, there is so much value in our lead list and it's
undervalued candidly. And what I mean by that is
people learn about what you do or part of the database that we
build and they need something, but it's not yet what you've
got, right. And so I'll give one example.
(13:32):
We had a member of Vitality Society.
She was looking at senior housing for the entire duration
of the pilot for five years. And she finally told me in that
fifth year that she moved. And I was just like, wow.
She looked all over the country.And I said, where did you go and
where did you decide to move? Who is lucky enough to get you?
And she's like, in my neighborhood.
(13:53):
And I said, yeah, she's like geta community where I volunteered
for over 20 years and I said 20 years and you didn't think of
moving in there earlier? She said, you know what?
They didn't have a 2 bedroom. I was waiting for a 2 bedroom.
There was like a multi year waitlist and it her name finally
came up with that unit. So it's interesting.
(14:13):
So going back to the leave list,it's like someone like her
didn't need to move in, but she had purpose while she was there.
She was volunteering. So when her unit came up and the
unit that she was waiting for became available, she already
knew the place. She already knew the people.
And while she likes to say I'm so much younger than everybody
(14:34):
and I can validate that jury oneway or another, like she's so
happy because despite the age difference, she felt this
community in connection. So I do think this idea of
engaging those that come to shopor visit in some way, shape or
form, whether they participate in our programming for the month
(14:56):
or they stay with us for a few nights or they participate in a
trip that we do or engage in ourvolunteer service in the
community, like in get these people to become aware of and
connected to the people and the police sooner than later.
And I think that's one really good example.
And then we really need to change the perception, right?
(15:18):
Our industry has always had a challenge where not only do
people not know, but the referral sources don't even know
what we offer and do. And we're not nursing homes on
the independent living assisted side of the equation.
And so I think that there is a real big opportunity to
illuminate all the good that's happening and all the potential
(15:40):
for growth and improvement of ones lives in the community.
But that being said, we can't just say it Jerry.
We have to do it. So another huge opportunity is
to say if you move in with us, you know, we will work with you
and put you through a program, whether it's diet or exercise or
diet and exercise, What are yourgoals?
(16:02):
What are your desires? And we're going to design days
for you and we're going to create a lifestyle for you that
aligns with what's interesting. And by virtue of going to a
place where people can improve over time is very different in
the perception of where they go to decline.
And I think we can flip the script if we really say a
(16:22):
different story and we build a different offering.
I love that it seems like operators could really use that
to work with that outside community too, right?
To build that Wellness infrastructure that would
benefit everybody. So yeah.
And yeah, that's amazing. And I would say too that like we
have to claim our lane, right? We do this really well day in
(16:45):
and day out, right? The best providers are are
offering these services and people are delighted to be there
and often the data says that they wish they would have moved
in earlier. Right.
All of this is true. We just have to do a better job
of telling our story and sharingit in a meaningful way.
I. Wanted to talk with you about
what real demand looks like too.I'm curious, why hasn't the
(17:08):
senior living product evolved even after decades of the
stagnant penetration rate? So interesting because I have
worked across the full continuum.
So I did work in active adult for one of the largest home
builders K of Nanian in roughly 2000 and four, 2006.
And here's the interesting part that I've observed is that
whenever an owner operator designed a different product,
(17:34):
whether it be on the dimension of what the real estate looked
like or what the pricing approach would be like as an
example, not rental, but condo. What we had seen for quite some
time and I and I think probably may still be the case is if the
building that was slightly innovative didn't work out
(17:56):
right, the first owner never made money.
And then when I was a banker, what I would see is like then
the less experienced company that took a little bit of a risk
ended up selling that community to one of the purpose built
players, if you will, right? And then they take that building
(18:18):
and do what we've always done and revert back to the mean of
the industry. And so I saw that play out a
number of times and was part of those transactions as buyers,
sellers and as a banker. And so when you have this
reversion back to the mean, whentaking a risk doesn't really
(18:38):
work, everybody plays it safe thereafter, right?
Lenders don't want to bet on newideas because how do you
underwrite something that you'venever seen before or done
before, right? And so there's this reversion
back to the means of the industry doesn't improve.
However, I do think we're in a very interesting inflection
(18:59):
point because the boomers are going to need and want something
different than we currently have.
And so while we might have gotten by the last few decades
doing what we've always done, I don't think it's going to work.
And I'll give you an example. So everybody talks about these
like golden girl units, right? So what we discovered on
Vitality Society is statistically, we know that
(19:22):
there is a very substantial number of people who become solo
agers or frankly, never were married, never had kids through
this very large population of solo women that are living
longer than ever. And so this sorority style
living, golden girl style approach, you know, this has
become an interesting opportunity and you have people
(19:46):
who are organizing themselves and finding these group style
homes. And then you have other
companies that are dabbling in like mini home tiny homes that
are part of a campus or a community where they could be
aggregated in some scale where someone could operate them.
So I think people are cobbling together with their own
(20:08):
solutions. I think more.
Experimental developers are going to try these new
solutions. I can't believe, don't see it
coming from the biggest players in the business.
I think they'll always do what they've always done.
And I think on the periphery andI and I do get these calls and I
do have the chance to talk to some of these developers.
(20:30):
It's hard to get money right. It is very expensive to build
real estate. It takes a lot of time.
It was actually one of the reasons I decided to do Vitality
Society virtually from the start.
I said, wait a second, why wouldI build a different kind of box
if 90% of the people don't even want to go to the box?
Aren't I trying to figure out what they really need and want?
Why am I going to guess and be wrong and then realize how
(20:51):
expensive that mistake was and how much money I lost for so
many people and banks and etcetera.
So I do think that innovation will happen on the periphery of
the industry. I do think these trends towards
solo aging group ideas of homes that are different than we've
ever done before. I've I remember when I was at
(21:12):
Marriott, we had a portfolio of communities in Washington state
and I'll never forget it. You walked into a house and the
house had like 8 different unitsand a shared kitchen.
And above that kitchen, interestingly enough, like the
space, there was a stairwell. And I always thought it was
interesting that older people had a stairwell, but it wasn't.
(21:34):
It was for a family that would take care of that house, so the
wife would cook and clean and the husband would do maintenance
and, and all of the more administrative tasks.
And it was so interesting to me because I was like, OK, these
eight people that live here don't know each other.
So it was easy for us at Marriott to manage because if
(21:56):
someone moved out, you know, they didn't all start knowing
each other. The complexity is when, let's
just say a cluster of eight women start, you know, living
together and one woman passes away.
Do you want to be that new womanin this tightly clustered group?
I would want to be that person. And so the economics fall apart
(22:17):
a little bit. So the contracts have to be so
good because we are dealing withpeople later in life.
And they do pass away, you know,the woman or two who were left,
they just fund the rest of the house on their own.
And people may not be in a financial situation to fund that
exposure. So it it it really does possibly
(22:39):
work out better in the Marriott model right where you have
people that don't know each other.
But there is this interest and Isee it and I hear it amongst my
friends who were I'm early 50s. They say, oh, you know, we never
got married. Meredith, you need to build
this. This is what we want to.
This is how we want to live in always comes back to these like
clustered golden girls type typecommunities.
(23:02):
So I do think we're going to seesome innovation there.
We have seen innovation on university campuses.
But again, when you go on a university campus, do you want
to live with college kids that are living like the party
lifestyle? We're so close to that that it's
so disruptive. I was actually giving a talk at
Leading Age Arizona and one of the premier locations and one of
(23:26):
the college campuses. The CEO of the company was
telling me like he was in a battle with the bar below
because the noise from the live music was keeping all the
residents up at night. So yes, there's a benefit to
living adjacent to a university with all these learning
opportunities and mixed generations, but there's also
(23:47):
the downside. You don't have the peace and
quiet that you might have on a campus community that's not on a
college campus. So again, you have to think
about innovation, but also balancing some of the complexity
and challenges that may come with these newer models.
And it's not going to necessarily come from the the
biggest players to take these biggest risks.
(24:08):
I think it's going to come from smaller players that are willing
to take it in a smaller scale. Yeah, no, that makes total
sense. And what about adult children?
They have to be playing a biggerrole now because older adults
are entering with higher acuity and later in life.
So what role should they play inshaping product and messaging I
(24:29):
love? That, I mean, I am now an adult
child. I always laugh about that,
right? When I started in the business,
I was 28 years old and I was like those older adult women.
And I'm thinking to myself, OK, they're 45.
Well, now I'm like squarely in that space.
And what I think Joe Coughlin from MIT calls my generation
like the Panini generation, right?
(24:49):
Because we're being squeezed on all sides, right?
I have a 14 year old that's going to come home from school.
Thank God. My parents right now are feeling
well. My dad just turned 82, but years
ago he was battling multiple blood cancers and blood
diseases. And my mom and I, you know, had
quite a time fighting like how to get him well and, and all of
that. So I think the adult daughter,
(25:11):
you know, I remember Paul Clawson in 2004 when we sold
Marriott senior living that portfolio to Sunrise.
And I decided that I was going to leave Sunrise after, you
know, not even a year because mymother was diagnosed with
cancer. Thank God she's great.
But at the time is very scary. And I said to him, like, you
(25:32):
know, Paul, what is your position on technology?
And this is 2004. And he said, you know, Marriott
at the very best, this industry,we're surrogate daughters.
We've got to do what the daughter would do if she had the
time and the skills, essentially, right?
And I was like, oh, that's so interesting, like a surrogate
daughter, right? And then I think about what I
did for my family and I'm like, wait a second.
(25:54):
If I can lean into a community that I know that was going to
advocate for my parents well-being, that was going to
provide something exciting, enriching, interesting,
compelling, like I'd be so grateful, right?
Like this new longevity comes with quite a bit of challenges,
right? People are going to live longer
than ever, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're going
(26:14):
to be healthy forever. And so this idea of the industry
filling in the this gap for women like me who were stretched
so thin. And by the way, we had children
later, right? Like I, I was born when my
mother was 27. I had my daughter few days shy
of 37, right? And so I am coming of age as my
(26:36):
parents need more and I still have a child at home.
So, you know, there is I always say complexity breeds
opportunity. Like the fact that we have to
manage so much and that doesn't necessarily die down.
It just gets more complicated over time.
You know, I think the industry could fill that void by saying,
OK, you know what, we will be your care navigators.
(26:57):
We will help in these transitional times.
You know, maybe you don't move in here full time, but your
mother had two hip replacements.Let her stay here for a short
period of time, get to know whatwe do, and then she cannot move
in because she doesn't need or want to.
But she can come and continue toeat in the meal meals that we
have, or she can come and be part of the programs that we
have. So I think we need to think of
(27:19):
ourselves in a very flexible way, but also in a very way.
And I think adult daughters are going to be looking for those
resources more and more to support our parents later in
life, the thinner and the more stretched we get.
Like I was saying, I'm like, Godwilling, everybody, my family
stays well, because in a few years my daughter's going to be
applying at college. And I'm like, that's going to be
(27:40):
quite an undertaking too, for all of us, right?
And so I do believe that in thisnew Panini generation, the
industry should play a role and serve the adult child.
And I've a lot of examples whereas a, as I always like to say,
people move out because they have to go to lately just to say
(28:00):
to the hospital and the industrydoesn't stay in touch
necessarily with the family. And there's a story I write
about in an Asha paper that's onmy website, meredithaphanam.com.
And I said, like this family hadan incident where the adult
daughter happened to be a nurse and and while the community
never was in touch with the family, when the mother-in-law
(28:20):
was in the hospital, they moved her back to the dementia area
and she had a catheter. And they said, oh, no, no, no,
no, you know, she can't live here with a catheter.
But they didn't know that. Nobody told them that the
hospital didn't know that. They didn't know where she was
going necessarily. And I couldn't believe it.
My friend who's a nurse had removed the catheter from her
(28:41):
mother-in-law because she couldn't stay in the community.
And once that happened, it was like within days, they decided
to move her out, you know, because had they managed those
transitions and had they coordinated that care, they
would have moved her to a nursing home where she could
have gotten and the support she needed and then brought her back
to the community. But, you know, we can't be on
defense. We've got to be on offense.
(29:02):
And as an adult daughter that's stretched so thin, I need that
support. We want that support in the
industry is well equipped. We just have to do what we do a
little bit differently and frankly, better.
Why are we the sandwich generation?
I'm always curious if I mean we're not the first generation
who's had older parents as well as younger kids, but I feel like
is it because we're so hyper aware of being in that role and
(29:25):
feeling compelled to to take care of both more than previous
generations? Why are we the sandwich
generation? You know, it's interesting.
I I do think the new longevity expands that period of time,
right. And so, you know, to be clear,
my dad, when he was so sick withtwo blood cancer, zone 2 blood
(29:48):
diseases, like even at like 10-15 years ago, he went to
survive. Like there would be no way that
he would have survived the sicknesses that he had.
He just want to right. But we were very lucky.
This was like 7 or 8 years ago. They had a home immunotherapy
drug and immunotherapy drug saved his life.
So we are part of the sandwich generation because the
(30:11):
modifications and enhancements and improvements in healthcare
are keeping people alive longer.I lost both of my grandfathers
before they turned 70 years old.Gone.
You know, they weren't even, I didn't even know that they were
sick, but they had one heart attack and they were dead.
That was it. They were gone.
(30:32):
And my grandmother's actually both lived into their 90s.
So when I got married to my husband, I told him, I said, you
better life me a lot because I have two grandmothers here.
You know, I said to him, you know, I'm 33 years old and you
know, I have two living grandmothers in the early 90s.
And you sure you want to make this decision because I may not
be going somewhere for a while. And, you know, I, I was very
(30:54):
fortunate that my grandmother's had long lives and my, my
parents had to work very hard, you know, to care for them while
they were caring for us. But like, the, the overlap, when
they needed the help, I was already out of the house, right?
Like when my grandmother's needed help, I was, you know, in
my late 20s, early 30s. Like, as much as my parents
(31:18):
still cared about me, I wasn't living under their roof.
So I do think us this generationhaving children later in life.
I have a very good friend who just had her first child at 50,
right? So I have many friends, male
friends that are have become fathers like in their early 50s,
like 5253. So I think this idea of women
(31:40):
having careers prolonging childbirth also becomes part of
this. And so put those factors
together, you know, I will have a young child at home when I,
you know, my daughter is 14. She just turned 15 rather.
And I just turned 52 yesterday, right?
(32:02):
And so in two years, like, she'll be out of the house at 53
when 54, right? Roughly 54 years old.
Like when my mother was 54, I was finishing my graduate
degree, right? Like it's just very different.
And so I do believe this new longevity coupled with later in
life having children makes thesetimes coincide.
(32:23):
And that's why this this push and the push and that Panini
reference we're not the first that makes.
Total sense we're not the. 1st Ijust, I think we're just the
most challenged to date. Yeah, No, I think about the fact
that all of my grandparents had passed by the time.
I think I was 25 or 26. So it was very different times
for sure. Yeah.
(32:44):
Exactly. And and these sudden heart
attacks, like I, I thank God it's not like that anymore,
right? Because I met like my
grandfather's. I feel like they missed my whole
life really, right. I lost them both when I was a
teenager and I just loved it. Like, you know, my grandmother,
my maternal grandmother saw my daughter be born.
(33:05):
You know, what a blessing, right?
For the women in the community that I meet there, a lot of them
are great, great grandmother's. Like, how remarkable is that?
To be 98 and meet your great, great grandchild?
It's fantastic, but it comes with a lot of responsibility.
Yeah. Wow, that's amazing.
I love that. I want to talk about the sales
(33:28):
script a little bit. I know you had mentioned the one
resident who waited five years to to find their community that
they chose to move into. What does that tell us about the
buyer journey? Are we, are we expecting too
much too soon? Are we not nurturing people long
enough throughout this process for them to really feel like
they found a place that they cancall home?
(33:49):
I mean, what, what is that telling us about that journey?
It's. Puzzling.
That story was so puzzling to me.
I'm like, She travelled all overthe country, known to me, she
was volunteering in a community in her neighborhood.
You know, I think that's about fit in every which way, shape
and form. So this woman is in a unique
situation. Like she was of Norwegian
(34:11):
descent and this happened to be like a European Community in
Chicagoland. And how cool is that?
Like, talk about fit, right? To come from a region of the
world, live in America, and thenfind people who affiliate in
some way, shape or form with andidentify with that cultural
(34:33):
experience. So I do think in terms of the
buyer journey, the fit piece is multi dimensional, right?
The people you surround yourselfwith, do you feel that vibe like
vitality? Society was very vivacious.
People really showed up. They like to talk to each other,
get to know each other. Like it was a very outgoing
(34:53):
group of people. Sure.
Where there are people there whowere introverts?
Absolutely, but they're going tobe an introvert about where they
are and they found community with us.
And also this idea of like timing, right?
It's not always the right time. So people show up because they
think it could be the right time, right?
(35:14):
But they see something, whether they think people are much older
than them or they don't see something like the two-bedroom
unit that they want, right? And it deters them from a move
in. So I do think like timing is
everything and you hear these stories all the time, right,
where people were on the list, where they were like waiting for
(35:35):
the right unit and then finally becomes available.
But that's an outlier. I do think you wait in this
industry and it used to be just an assistant assisted living
where there was like a need versus a desire, right?
Like an assisted living, you knew someone had a need and
they're more likely to move in quickly.
But at the end of the day, like I still feel an independent
(35:56):
living, there needs to be a need.
Like it still happens that way, right?
So as an example, a spouse passes away, you know, a home
becomes too complicated to navigate or costly to fix,
right? Or and your adult child moves
and it's too inconvenient for them to come and you want to be
near your grandchildren, like whatever the case may be.
(36:18):
Like that need is now pervasive,I think through the whole
industry and it's not just assisted living.
So I do think the timing piece, I do think the circumstance
piece and the buyer journey, like I'm going to be speaking at
a place for Mom conference and I'm so excited about that
because it is a little bit of a puzzle, right?
(36:39):
I'm working on my presentation. It's a puzzle and all the pieces
need to fit together, like the timing, the type of unit, the
location, the experiences, the, the amenities, like all of that
needs to fit right. And it's not so easy to do that.
And, and when that happens at the same time, like then you
know, it's the right place and people love it and they enjoy it
(37:02):
and they refer their friends and, and, but it, that journey
to find that fit is really tough.
And I, I always think about like, a lot of the people that I
know that have moved their lovedones into a community, like my
mom is so happy. You know, she didn't realize
that she was going to be this happy.
Like there's still this, I don'teven know what to call it.
(37:24):
It's like mystery of like, is this a good decision?
And until you get into the buildings and you feel it and
you see it, you're not even sureof it.
And I'll give you 2 examples. There was ATV show, everybody
saw it in the industry or a lot of people man on the inside with
Ted Danson, right? And he and he's like, it's
hilarious, right? And he's like working there as
(37:46):
you know, right? But like, when he moved in, he
was very apprehensive. You know, he wasn't planning on
staying. And he was kind of felt outside,
like the clique in the cluster and the energy and the vibrancy
of the community. And then he slowly got to know
people and the people that were the resident ambassadors got to
know him. And, you know, he got to know
(38:08):
the essence of these people and realize he was much more like
them than he wasn't. And he enjoyed them.
And so I loved that. But then you have TV shows like
Frank Frankie and Grace or Graceand Frankie, right, with Lily
Tomlin and Jane Honda. And you know, they gave a very
different perception of the industry, right?
(38:29):
Like Lily Tomlin loved to paint.She went into that community and
decided to paint wherever she wanted, whatever time she
wanted. And they were not allowing her
to do what she wanted on her ownterms.
And forget about Jane Fonda. She had her own business.
And they said this is a retirement community, you can't
work here. So this idea of the buyer
journey is you could meet peoplewhere they're at, right?
(38:52):
You want to help them be the best version of themselves.
If they love to paint, let them paint where they want to paint.
If they want to work, let them work where they want to work,
right? Like we as an industry need to
flex into the new buyer and the new buyer.
Like I said, what I learned withVitali Society, they're not done
yet, right? They see this is just getting
started. So this idea of coming as the
(39:13):
beginning of the end is an outdated notion that doesn't
appeal to this new generation. And we have an industry tests
depart from it as quickly and aswell as we can, because the
sooner we allow people to tell us what they need and want and
we flex to that, the better we're going to be, right.
It's like more of the Ritz Carlton like culture.
It's always a yes, right. You want to paint here at this
(39:35):
time? Yes.
You know, can I eat at 9:00 in the morning, you know, in the
dining room, even though the dining room is not open, you
know, until 9:30, Yes, Right. Like we just need to get to yes.
And it's not so easy, right? There's costs associated with
it. Staffing is very difficult, but
we need to work our model and adapt what we do so that people
(39:58):
feel like it's a place where they belong and they're
comfortable being there sooner than later.
I know I see a lot too with communities now.
They're conditioning down and depending on where they're
located, you see a lot of them playing to the lifestyle and the
heritage and affinity piece rather than the amenities and
activities. What role do you think that that
plays moving forward? Yeah.
(40:19):
I know it's so interesting. So yeah.
So I, I one of my favorite communities, when Hyatt opened
it up in Palo Alto was like right outside Stanford, you
know, in a beautiful place. And it was by Hyatt and they had
spas and they had delicious food.
And I remember my mentor at the time was a very wealthy man said
(40:41):
to me, like, wait a second, like, what's an entry fee?
Like I'm giving it all these millions of dollars down to live
in this beautiful place and I'm only getting 80% of it or
something. At the time, that's what he was
told back. He's like, that's not a deal how
any of us became very wealthy, right?
That's not a deal. I would do.
And I thought to myself, interesting, right?
(41:03):
Like if people feel that way, they're not going to move in
here. But on the other hand, it has
become one of the most sought after, one of them highest
occupied buildings. And there's wait lists to get
into that community. And I, I think it's the
amenities, like the gym was justbeautiful, The pool was
beautiful, the dining facilitieswere great.
(41:24):
The, the food looked delicious. Like it just took a very
hospitality approach to it. And I said, I remember when I
was touring the building, I was like, this is kind of place that
I would want to move into. And I at the time was like in my
30s, right? And so, you know, I, I think
there is an element and I, I always say to my husband, like,
I don't know where we're going to live.
You know, my daughter goes to college and I'm in like my 60s
(41:46):
and 70s. But I aspire one day to like
live in one of those like, you know, Ritz Carlton like programs
where I can live in many different hotels because I don't
want to maintain a house. You know, I live in a, I live in
an apartment right now and I love the properties and where
they are. I want to live a life where I
(42:06):
can go to a ski resort and ski. I want to go to a mountain area.
I want to go to the desert. You know, there's like there's a
variety and flexibility that comes with those packages and
programs. So you get the amenities and but
you also get the flexibility. And I think the industry lacks
that flexibility, right? You get all that you need and
want. You have one option how you're
(42:26):
going to buy it or rent it or entry Fiat, right?
And, and we need to provide options to people because when
you breakdown what these buildings offer and do, they're
it's remarkable, right? We're not turning people away
because generally we don't have enough.
Sometimes it's almost like we have too much and becomes too
expensive. And that's a whole other topic I
know we'll talk about. But like this idea of these over
(42:50):
amenities buildings is becoming so cost prohibitively expensive
is a deterrent or not even accessible to most people.
Yeah, talking about the 90% too,who never move in.
How do you reach the unreachable?
And what do you say to someone who sees themselves aging at
home and says I'm never moving in?
It's. My mom, I deal with her all the
(43:11):
time, you know, she both my parents.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, she was inspired me for
vitality society in so many waysbecause I I said to her when my
dad was so sick, I said, mom, you know, when something happens
to daddy, we didn't know when, but it seemed it was imminent.
Like, what am I going to do withyou?
Right. Because she was only like 72 at
(43:31):
the time. And she's like, I'll let you
know right now, I'm never movinginto any community.
You've ever been part of it. I was like, you know, I think
that's unfair because like, you don't even actually know what we
do. And and you haven't been to any
of the places that I'm part of. But this notion of like, she was
going to be stripped of her independence and stripped of
(43:52):
opportunities. Like she sees the world.
My mom is an internal optimist, right?
Like she wants bigger, more, right.
As time progresses. That's just not necessarily
early things, but experiences, right?
So as an example, my brother moved to Colorado with his kids
and she makes it her business come some way, shape or form to
(44:14):
see them on a monthly basis, right?
So if they're going to California, she goes to
California. If they're going here, she goes
there, right? And she takes my dad too.
And they have a different version of the trip usually, but
they're in the same place and she gets to see her grandkids
and be there with her like the generations of her family.
So at the end of the day, like Ijust, I, I think the baby
(44:35):
boomers are going to shake us up.
Like I give a talk, I, I love doing it.
It's how to, how to stop the baby boomers from busting the
industry, right? And, and I think there's a lot
to that, but one very key area is prevention, right?
And so this idea of prevention being the best medicine, like
(44:55):
until I can convince my mom and people like her that by coming
to a community like ours, you can actually prove over time
that your health is going to improve.
Like that's substantial and that's really compelling and
interesting. Going to a place where she's
going to quote UN quote with or away is not right.
(45:19):
And so the more we as an industry could tailor the
experiences and offer them in a way that it's going to be
expansive and see this idea of improvement.
I think the better you know, we are and and and better off we're
going to make everybody be and and the more relevant we become
and and like we talked about, the sooner they're going to
(45:39):
come. The vast majority of people
aren't interested because we haven't made ourselves that
interesting, Jerry. That's true.
I think most sales pitches revolve around simplifying your
life and and making things more convenient.
But it's it's actually about living better, right?
I look at senior living that wayand I think I would love to live
(46:02):
in a certain type of community. It would definitely have to be a
specific kind, but it would be 1where I can live better than I'm
living now. Otherwise, why would I do that?
Why? Bother.
Exactly, exactly. That's why I say like that Ritz
Carlton hotel. I was like, Oh my God, you know
what? I could travel to all these
places, live without the maintenance, live without the
(46:23):
housekeeping, live without worrying with the food, you
know, like it's convenient. And I don't know.
I think there is also, I remember my one of my
grandmother's, my maternal grandmother, after Hurricane
Sandy, she was living in Queens.That's where she raised my mom
and she lived for decades and she lost power.
And it was, you know, remember it was like late October, early
(46:44):
November, and I moved my grandmother into one of the
communities very close to her home.
And they were wonderful to her, right?
They brought blankets from corporate for the residents that
they brought, you know, all these extension cords and light
and other things. Like it was really quite
remarkable because they lost power as well.
And I was so impressed. And my grandmother said to me,
(47:04):
you know, Marila, I said, grandma, you could stay.
Like they love you here. And I know that they'd be happy
to have you. And she's you can't live on
caviar alone. And I was like, what's that
mean? Right.
And I thought to myself, like, her generation, that was like
the war generation. My grandfather was in World War
2, right? Like she grew up in the
(47:26):
Depression, like having this affluence or abundance like was
a negative connotation to her, right?
Like she, she didn't want to live like that.
She was a very simple woman thatlived in a small house that
raised her family. She stayed there for decades.
Like the simplicity was what shelike loved.
My mother is so different than that, right?
(47:47):
Wind her up, bring her to California, go on a walking tour
of like Chinatown, like we did, go to Napa Valley for the
afternoon walk mere woods cross,you know, the Golden Gate
Bridge. Like she wants experiences.
You know, the simplicity that mygrandmother saw.
It is like the absolute oppositeof what my mother wants.
Like she wants, and I wouldn't even say fancy.
(48:10):
She wants fulfilling, right? I like the fancy.
I don't know if I'll be able to afford it, but I I like the
fancy my mom looks for fulfilling, right?
And and that's what I think the boomers want.
They want to be fulfilled. This is their time, right?
They always lived on their own terms.
They always redefined things as they wished and want and wanted.
(48:30):
Like why are we asking them to fit into our box, right?
We've got to flex the box to their desires.
I know we're almost out of time.Do you have do you have time for
one more question? Absolutely.
We're just getting warmed up, Jerry.
This is fun. I know.
I think my last question to you is how can communities monetize
value for people who still want to age in place?
(48:54):
So this is a good one. So the nonprofit that I work
for, I absolutely love this chapter of my career, has a
remarkable CEO, great executive team.
And what's so interesting about their portfolio is they have
their life plan communities, right, that are the full
continuum independent assisted often dementia nursing on a
(49:16):
single campus. And then they also had one
rental assisted dementia, which I've spent a lot of my career
working on that type of product.And then they have these at home
businesses and ones like a long term care insurance business and
managing and supporting people through transitions and
challenges of aging. And then the second really is a
home health business. And I just love that they're set
(49:39):
up to succeed no matter where people and how people choose to
age. And so the at home business
might be a feeder to one of our communities or one of our
communities. People living in independent
living may want one of the home health aides so they can age in
place in a certain part of the building because maybe their
(50:00):
spouse is able to be fully engaged and they know a lot of
could do so, but they want to remain in the same unit.
So I think that these companies that are able to be very
flexible and adaptable and services that they're offering
to those who reside and even want to stay at home, but also
the opportunity to say, OK, you're going to reside at home.
(50:22):
We're going to care for you at home.
But through all of these different ride programs that
exist like Ubers and Lyfts, you've come to these communities
and have it as a hub of activityfor people who choose to reside
at home, but are striving to be part of something bigger on more
limited terms. And so I think our industry,
provided, you know, it doesn't get in the way of approvals and
(50:45):
licensure and everything else, there is an opportunity to
decouple what we do and give people pieces of parts of what
we offer at the right time. And it's not going to be a
one-size-fits-all. So we as an industry shouldn't
have one solution, we should have many.
And I just love what the nonprofit does because they meet
people where they're at, they provide them what they need,
they support that they want to live differently and we've got
(51:07):
them right. And they also have a very large
affordable piece. So we haven't spoken about that
yet, but this particular organization has 19 affordable
communities and their wait listsare years long because there's
just not enough supply. And we as an industry have not
figured out the affordable pieceall that well, right?
There's some organizations, particularly the nonprofits, who
(51:29):
do it very well, but there aren't even enough of us that
could figure this out or have done enough of it to date.
And so this affordability question and challenge is
something we really need to sortout and figure out pretty soon
because it is going to be one ofthe greatest challenges of our
time. Talk about Panini generation,
right? We're stretched so thin with our
time, but also with our money. And how do we support our loved
(51:52):
ones if a lot of us, you know, are really just getting by as
well? And so it's really going to be a
challenge and something our industry has to begin to think
about. It's hard enough to do what we
do and then to do it in the mostaffordable way.
When you have labor challenges and financing costs going up and
you know, all these other costs that make it very demanding and
(52:14):
challenging from a, an entry perspective, right?
We just become so expensive thatmost people, even if they wanted
to come cherry, they can't. And so for me, I, I, I really,
I'm so grateful for this chapterof my career to be able to, to
span the home, the community is an affordable and more market
rate because I do think we've got to sort that out.
(52:35):
And I'm grateful for the opportunity part of figuring
that out. I love everything you're doing.
I think it's amazing work. Where can our audience go to
learn more about your work and connect with you?
Sure. So, meredithoppenheim.com.
So you see the spelling of my name?
No, Blake and meredithapanam.com.
I tend to post a lot on LinkedIn.
(52:58):
So I try to really pour my heartand mind into this by
challenging the industry to think differently and explore
different dimensions and and I have observations that I share
there a lot. So I'd love to get connected
with whomever would like to be in touch with me.
I'd love to hear what other people are doing and seeing and
(53:19):
saying. So please make me a contact and
I'd love to stay connected. And Jerry, thank you again for
this opportunity. Absolutely.
This is such a pleasure. So thank you so much for for
hopping on. As we wrap up today's episode, I
want to thank you, Meredith Oppenheimer, for sharing your
deep experience and critical insights into how we can better
(53:40):
serve the next generation of older adults.
From challenging assumptions about readiness to reimagining
how we define value, your work urges us to break out of the old
mold and rethink what senior living could be.
So if you want to connect with Meredith or explore her work
with Vitality Society and seniorhousing innovation, all the
links are in our show notes. As always, we hope you found
(54:00):
this episode insightful and inspiring.
And don't forget to subscribe onyour favorite platform and stay
tuned for more episodes where wecontinue to explore the evolving
world of senior care, covering everything from care models and
leadership strategies to policy equity in the future of aging.
And also remember that From Leads to Leases isn't just an
audio experience. We're also a video podcast.
So you can subscribe to our YouTube or Spotify channels to
(54:22):
watch the full episodes. I'm Jerry Vinci, CEO of CCR
growth. Thank you for joining us on From
Leads to Leases. And please like, subscribe and
share this episode with anyone who might find it useful.
Until next time, lead with strategy and with heart.
Chat with you again soon. Thanks, Meredith.
Thank you. Jerry.
Thanks for listening to From Leads to Leases.
(54:43):
Are you ready to fill your roomsfaster and increase occupancy?
Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn about our Senior Growth
Innovation Suite, a proven system to generate highly
qualified tour ready leads, accelerate sales and reduce
acquisition costs. Let's connect and turn your
challenges into opportunities. See you.
Next time.
It was frustrating that no matter what we did and no matter
how we did it or how he said it,we would consistently flatline
at that 10% penetration rate until as an industry, we
understand what the 90% need andwant, we can't progress and
serve the majority of the marketand have an impact on their
lives. What if your entire sales
(00:21):
strategy was targeting the wrongcustomer?
For decades, senior living has focused on frailty and
readiness. But today's guest spent five
years studying the 90% who nevermove in.
And what they want could radically reshape what we build,
how we sell, and who we serve. Welcome to From Leads to Leases,
(00:44):
ACCR Growth podcast that helps senior living providers
transform their complex challenges into opportunities.
Listen in for stories from industry leaders, innovative
strategies and insights, and with our expertise, learn how to
increase occupancy faster, Guaranteed.
Welcome back to another episode of From Leads to Leases, the
(01:05):
podcast that dives deep into thesenior living and senior care
industries, bringing you insights, strategies, and
stories from the experts at the forefront of innovation,
leadership, and care. I'm your host, Jerry Vincey, CEO
of CCR Growth. CCR Growth is a full service
marketing and growth agency that's exclusive to the senior
living industry. Through this podcast, I'm here
(01:25):
to guide you through the evolving landscape of senior
care, exploring the innovations,strategies, and leadership
insights that are shaping the future of the industry.
So whether you're a provider, a caregiver, or industry leader,
this show is here to help you make informed decisions and
create meaningful impact. All right.
Today's guest is Meredith Oppenheim, a senior housing
(01:47):
leader with 25 years of experience advising and growing
portfolios for major owners and operators.
She currently serves as strategic advisor and Chief
growth Officer for one of the largest nonprofit senior housing
providers in the US. She's also the founder of
Vitality Society, a nationally recognized online Wellness
platform for people 60 and better.
(02:08):
Her work has been featured in the New York Times, the Wall
Street Journal, Forbes, ABC, Foxand NBC.
She's a Harvard MBA and Cornell graduate.
Meredith has served on the New York City Department for the
Aging Board and Mayor Bloomberg's Age Friendly
Commission and is also Co authoring a new playbook on the
future of senior living. So Meredith, I am so excited to
(02:31):
talk to you today. Thank you so much for coming on
the show. Thanks Jerry for having me.
I'm delighted to be here. We have quite a bit to cover, so
I want to jump into talking about a pretty important topic
here. There's been a persistent issue
in the senior living space wherethe penetration rate has kind of
stagnated at around 10% of olderadults actually entering senior
(02:54):
living for the past couple decades.
And I know that you uncovered a lot of this by building the
vitality society. Tell me about the Vitality
Society and what it what problemyou're trying to solve.
Absolutely. So after decades in the industry
of senior housing, working for some of the largest owners and
operators, part of communities that were absolutely stunning
(03:18):
and lifestyles that were so appealing, it was so confusing
to me and frustrating to me thatno matter what we did and no
matter how we did it or how he said it, we would consistently
flatline at that 10% penetrationrate.
And I thought to myself, until as an industry we understand
(03:39):
what the 90% needed want, we can't progress and serve the
majority of the market and have an impact on their lives.
So I decided to launch Vitality Society with the idea that I
could get smarter and learn moreif I paused from my day-to-day
senior housing jobs and got to know the people that never moved
(04:01):
in. So Vitality Society was designed
prior to the pandemic. We launched January 2020.
So the timing ended up being quite fortuitous because we went
from being valuable to vital overnight.
So the idea was what happens if you decouple the experience of
senior housing, all the programming from the real estate
(04:24):
and the decision to move or not to move?
Would people engage in a community and a virtual?
What did that? And this was before Zoom was a
household name, right? And I actually didn't have the
answer, but I was curious. So I went out and I designed
this community called Vitality Society with the notion that
around these 8 guiding principles, starting with
(04:46):
allowing older people to be the best version of themselves, we
were going to design fitness, Wellness, enrichment programming
that you would generally see in senior housing, but offer it
from the convenience of someone's home.
And what we saw prior to the pandemic was a very small ramp
up. And as I said, we went from
valuable to vital overnight. So what we really were able to
(05:08):
do was curate content that was very appealing and interesting
to those that we served and the people we served.
My advisors told me men will need it more, but women will
show up more. And she was right because at the
end of the day, we had a subscription service.
It was a dollar a day. The pilot always had above 100
(05:29):
people subscribing and we had seven days of live programming
and I worked diligently to get the best in class providers of
their craft, whether it be fitness or Wellness or
enrichment. We tried to have signature
programming that would really beappealing and compelling.
And what I'm proud to say is that our level of engagement,
(05:52):
which was frankly the most important metric for me because
I couldn't spend many of the providers that had developed
massive repertoires during the pandemic period, but I needed
and wanted to be the most engaging.
And so our subscribers on average participated 2 hours a
week, which was very exciting tous and our super users that top
(06:16):
20%, Jerry, were at the two hours a day.
And so we really became such a vital part and a pillar in these
people's lives. And in some, I'll just say that
we filled a void, right? People really benefited from
from being part of a community. And we know from senior housing
(06:36):
that that's what people benefit and enjoy the most is the
camaraderie and the connection. And so we validated that even
though people choose not to moveinto senior housing, that's
still very important and the idea to help people become that
best version of themselves, which often sadly, people don't
perceive senior housing to do. You know, we were able to
(06:58):
accomplish so we allowed our members by participating in our
programming to develop the stamina, the strength and
stability to live very complete lives and now with more friends
and opportunities. That's amazing.
And I mean, I think the $1,000,000 question, what were
the commonalities, the values, the habits, the goals of people
(07:18):
who never consider moving into acommunity?
What did that look like? So I distilled it down to these
8 guiding principles. So prior to launching Vitality
Society, because I didn't have the answers and I was on this
pursuit to finding them, I realized I said, let me do
research, let me do online focusgroups, let me go to people's
living rooms and talk to them and groups of people that live
around them and let me hear and try to distill down and suss out
(07:42):
like what is it that is really appealing and interesting to
them? And I distilled it down to these
8 guiding principles. And the first one, like I said,
is be be the best version of yourself.
And what I thought and what I learned was that that actually
Jerry means something quite different to everyone and it
changes over time. So what's interesting is for
(08:02):
someone who comes to us who may not be someone who participates
in regular exercising, participating in the 30 minute
seated exercise class was reallyvaluable and interesting and
they were able to progress to these hour long classes.
And then you would other people who demanded that they need
higher intensity classes becauseexercise such a big part of
their lives and they would continued and wanted to do that.
(08:26):
So it was interesting for us in the sense that we had to meet
people where they're at. We wanted to provide a
sufficient challenge so that they could progress.
And this idea of continually improving is a theme that I saw
consistently. The other one was I, which I
love is do right? People want to make a meaningful
(08:47):
contribution in some way, shape or form, whether it be an our
community, we had this program called Vitality University where
they would teach and contribute their expertise or broadly in
their communities, volunteering with different generations, with
their synagogues, with their churches.
We felt that the people that we were serving were actually
(09:08):
really busy and engaged. And again, bringing it back to
senior housing, like we as an industry need to figure out the
models that allow people to comeand engage and do something
meaningful and purposeful. So one good example that has a
wait list and consistently is expanding and always improving
(09:28):
what they do is Garden Spot Village and Pennsylvania.
And they have a service Corp. And these people work together,
prepare together, and they go onthese trips and they contribute
to the world around them and have these like purposeful
programs and they go together and have this impactful
experience. And you know, that is what
senior housing could and should be doing.
(09:50):
So that's another one is to do meaningful work.
And then the other one is Ed, right?
A big one is this continuous learning.
We see this opportunity all the time in senior housing, right?
All these programs that are available to the residents so
that they continue to learn and and grow and explore new areas
and ideas. And this type of pursuit of
(10:12):
continuous learning and knowledge has been
transformative to universities who are trying to appeal to
older people. And this idea of like a
university with inside of seniorhousing is something that I
think is a huge opportunity. And then other principles that
guided us, which were a lot of fun was a meeting new people,
having fun. So I called it highs to laugh
(10:34):
often. That was a big part of what we
needed and wanted to do on our platform.
People had fun, like showing up,getting to know people, enjoying
their company. We had comedians on, we had
laughter yoga. I mean, it was always, like,
really entertaining and interesting at the same time.
And then this idea of high is like, this notion of meeting new
(10:55):
people, right? So as people age, their social
circles tend to shrink, right? So people move away, They pass
away. Spouses, you know, may be
troubled or challenged that theycan't engage and participate in
life as they did. But again, like here's this
opportunity to start meeting newpeople and being with them and,
and, and enjoying their company and the list goes on.
(11:18):
But I, I do want to end with theidea that the last two
principles are very important tomention, right?
So one is Ohm and this idea of peacefulness and mindfulness and
later in life, finding that calmin whatever complexity that
you're dealing with either personally or in your family and
your community. God knows all that's happening,
(11:41):
you know, during the pandemic especially, but then also, oy,
right, this idea of like situations are going to come,
challenges are going to arise. We're going to deal with very
difficult situations that happens in every facet of life
in old ages is a part of that. And so this idea of helping
industry be aware that people's lives and circumstances are
(12:04):
going to change. And we as care navigators,
transition managers, really support older people in allowing
them to smooth out these most challenging parts of their lives
and circumstances. And we as an industry can play a
huge role in doing that. And that's such an opportunity
for our business. How do you think communities can
(12:25):
use these guiding principles to start decoupling the real estate
side from the experience side toattract people sooner in the
process? That's the.
Multibillion dollar question forthe industry, right?
So I started in 2002, Marriott Senior Living right out of
Harvard Business School, and ouraverage age of entry into our
(12:46):
independent living communities was roughly like 7678.
And now we know that the averageage of entry is like 84.
And there's a few reasons for that, right?
People are living longer, healthier lives, right?
And they're delaying that move until they really need it.
And that happens later. And so as an industry, I think
(13:09):
there's a few ways that we can do this.
So number one, there is so much value in our lead list and it's
undervalued candidly. And what I mean by that is
people learn about what you do or part of the database that we
build and they need something, but it's not yet what you've
got, right. And so I'll give one example.
(13:32):
We had a member of Vitality Society.
She was looking at senior housing for the entire duration
of the pilot for five years. And she finally told me in that
fifth year that she moved. And I was just like, wow.
She looked all over the country.And I said, where did you go and
where did you decide to move? Who is lucky enough to get you?
And she's like, in my neighborhood.
(13:53):
And I said, yeah, she's like geta community where I volunteered
for over 20 years and I said 20 years and you didn't think of
moving in there earlier? She said, you know what?
They didn't have a 2 bedroom. I was waiting for a 2 bedroom.
There was like a multi year waitlist and it her name finally
came up with that unit. So it's interesting.
(14:13):
So going back to the leave list,it's like someone like her
didn't need to move in, but she had purpose while she was there.
She was volunteering. So when her unit came up and the
unit that she was waiting for became available, she already
knew the place. She already knew the people.
And while she likes to say I'm so much younger than everybody
(14:34):
and I can validate that jury oneway or another, like she's so
happy because despite the age difference, she felt this
community in connection. So I do think this idea of
engaging those that come to shopor visit in some way, shape or
form, whether they participate in our programming for the month
(14:56):
or they stay with us for a few nights or they participate in a
trip that we do or engage in ourvolunteer service in the
community, like in get these people to become aware of and
connected to the people and the police sooner than later.
And I think that's one really good example.
And then we really need to change the perception, right?
(15:18):
Our industry has always had a challenge where not only do
people not know, but the referral sources don't even know
what we offer and do. And we're not nursing homes on
the independent living assisted side of the equation.
And so I think that there is a real big opportunity to
illuminate all the good that's happening and all the potential
(15:40):
for growth and improvement of ones lives in the community.
But that being said, we can't just say it Jerry.
We have to do it. So another huge opportunity is
to say if you move in with us, you know, we will work with you
and put you through a program, whether it's diet or exercise or
diet and exercise, What are yourgoals?
(16:02):
What are your desires? And we're going to design days
for you and we're going to create a lifestyle for you that
aligns with what's interesting. And by virtue of going to a
place where people can improve over time is very different in
the perception of where they go to decline.
And I think we can flip the script if we really say a
(16:22):
different story and we build a different offering.
I love that it seems like operators could really use that
to work with that outside community too, right?
To build that Wellness infrastructure that would
benefit everybody. So yeah.
And yeah, that's amazing. And I would say too that like we
have to claim our lane, right? We do this really well day in
(16:45):
and day out, right? The best providers are are
offering these services and people are delighted to be there
and often the data says that they wish they would have moved
in earlier. Right.
All of this is true. We just have to do a better job
of telling our story and sharingit in a meaningful way.
I. Wanted to talk with you about
what real demand looks like too.I'm curious, why hasn't the
(17:08):
senior living product evolved even after decades of the
stagnant penetration rate? So interesting because I have
worked across the full continuum.
So I did work in active adult for one of the largest home
builders K of Nanian in roughly 2000 and four, 2006.
And here's the interesting part that I've observed is that
whenever an owner operator designed a different product,
(17:34):
whether it be on the dimension of what the real estate looked
like or what the pricing approach would be like as an
example, not rental, but condo. What we had seen for quite some
time and I and I think probably may still be the case is if the
building that was slightly innovative didn't work out
(17:56):
right, the first owner never made money.
And then when I was a banker, what I would see is like then
the less experienced company that took a little bit of a risk
ended up selling that community to one of the purpose built
players, if you will, right? And then they take that building
(18:18):
and do what we've always done and revert back to the mean of
the industry. And so I saw that play out a
number of times and was part of those transactions as buyers,
sellers and as a banker. And so when you have this
reversion back to the mean, whentaking a risk doesn't really
(18:38):
work, everybody plays it safe thereafter, right?
Lenders don't want to bet on newideas because how do you
underwrite something that you'venever seen before or done
before, right? And so there's this reversion
back to the means of the industry doesn't improve.
However, I do think we're in a very interesting inflection
(18:59):
point because the boomers are going to need and want something
different than we currently have.
And so while we might have gotten by the last few decades
doing what we've always done, I don't think it's going to work.
And I'll give you an example. So everybody talks about these
like golden girl units, right? So what we discovered on
Vitality Society is statistically, we know that
(19:22):
there is a very substantial number of people who become solo
agers or frankly, never were married, never had kids through
this very large population of solo women that are living
longer than ever. And so this sorority style
living, golden girl style approach, you know, this has
become an interesting opportunity and you have people
(19:46):
who are organizing themselves and finding these group style
homes. And then you have other
companies that are dabbling in like mini home tiny homes that
are part of a campus or a community where they could be
aggregated in some scale where someone could operate them.
So I think people are cobbling together with their own
(20:08):
solutions. I think more.
Experimental developers are going to try these new
solutions. I can't believe, don't see it
coming from the biggest players in the business.
I think they'll always do what they've always done.
And I think on the periphery andI and I do get these calls and I
do have the chance to talk to some of these developers.
(20:30):
It's hard to get money right. It is very expensive to build
real estate. It takes a lot of time.
It was actually one of the reasons I decided to do Vitality
Society virtually from the start.
I said, wait a second, why wouldI build a different kind of box
if 90% of the people don't even want to go to the box?
Aren't I trying to figure out what they really need and want?
Why am I going to guess and be wrong and then realize how
(20:51):
expensive that mistake was and how much money I lost for so
many people and banks and etcetera.
So I do think that innovation will happen on the periphery of
the industry. I do think these trends towards
solo aging group ideas of homes that are different than we've
ever done before. I've I remember when I was at
(21:12):
Marriott, we had a portfolio of communities in Washington state
and I'll never forget it. You walked into a house and the
house had like 8 different unitsand a shared kitchen.
And above that kitchen, interestingly enough, like the
space, there was a stairwell. And I always thought it was
interesting that older people had a stairwell, but it wasn't.
(21:34):
It was for a family that would take care of that house, so the
wife would cook and clean and the husband would do maintenance
and, and all of the more administrative tasks.
And it was so interesting to me because I was like, OK, these
eight people that live here don't know each other.
So it was easy for us at Marriott to manage because if
(21:56):
someone moved out, you know, they didn't all start knowing
each other. The complexity is when, let's
just say a cluster of eight women start, you know, living
together and one woman passes away.
Do you want to be that new womanin this tightly clustered group?
I would want to be that person. And so the economics fall apart
(22:17):
a little bit. So the contracts have to be so
good because we are dealing withpeople later in life.
And they do pass away, you know,the woman or two who were left,
they just fund the rest of the house on their own.
And people may not be in a financial situation to fund that
exposure. So it it it really does possibly
(22:39):
work out better in the Marriott model right where you have
people that don't know each other.
But there is this interest and Isee it and I hear it amongst my
friends who were I'm early 50s. They say, oh, you know, we never
got married. Meredith, you need to build
this. This is what we want to.
This is how we want to live in always comes back to these like
clustered golden girls type typecommunities.
(23:02):
So I do think we're going to seesome innovation there.
We have seen innovation on university campuses.
But again, when you go on a university campus, do you want
to live with college kids that are living like the party
lifestyle? We're so close to that that it's
so disruptive. I was actually giving a talk at
Leading Age Arizona and one of the premier locations and one of
(23:26):
the college campuses. The CEO of the company was
telling me like he was in a battle with the bar below
because the noise from the live music was keeping all the
residents up at night. So yes, there's a benefit to
living adjacent to a university with all these learning
opportunities and mixed generations, but there's also
(23:47):
the downside. You don't have the peace and
quiet that you might have on a campus community that's not on a
college campus. So again, you have to think
about innovation, but also balancing some of the complexity
and challenges that may come with these newer models.
And it's not going to necessarily come from the the
biggest players to take these biggest risks.
(24:08):
I think it's going to come from smaller players that are willing
to take it in a smaller scale. Yeah, no, that makes total
sense. And what about adult children?
They have to be playing a biggerrole now because older adults
are entering with higher acuity and later in life.
So what role should they play inshaping product and messaging I
(24:29):
love? That, I mean, I am now an adult
child. I always laugh about that,
right? When I started in the business,
I was 28 years old and I was like those older adult women.
And I'm thinking to myself, OK, they're 45.
Well, now I'm like squarely in that space.
And what I think Joe Coughlin from MIT calls my generation
like the Panini generation, right?
(24:49):
Because we're being squeezed on all sides, right?
I have a 14 year old that's going to come home from school.
Thank God. My parents right now are feeling
well. My dad just turned 82, but years
ago he was battling multiple blood cancers and blood
diseases. And my mom and I, you know, had
quite a time fighting like how to get him well and, and all of
that. So I think the adult daughter,
(25:11):
you know, I remember Paul Clawson in 2004 when we sold
Marriott senior living that portfolio to Sunrise.
And I decided that I was going to leave Sunrise after, you
know, not even a year because mymother was diagnosed with
cancer. Thank God she's great.
But at the time is very scary. And I said to him, like, you
(25:32):
know, Paul, what is your position on technology?
And this is 2004. And he said, you know, Marriott
at the very best, this industry,we're surrogate daughters.
We've got to do what the daughter would do if she had the
time and the skills, essentially, right?
And I was like, oh, that's so interesting, like a surrogate
daughter, right? And then I think about what I
did for my family and I'm like, wait a second.
(25:54):
If I can lean into a community that I know that was going to
advocate for my parents well-being, that was going to
provide something exciting, enriching, interesting,
compelling, like I'd be so grateful, right?
Like this new longevity comes with quite a bit of challenges,
right? People are going to live longer
than ever, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're going
(26:14):
to be healthy forever. And so this idea of the industry
filling in the this gap for women like me who were stretched
so thin. And by the way, we had children
later, right? Like I, I was born when my
mother was 27. I had my daughter few days shy
of 37, right? And so I am coming of age as my
(26:36):
parents need more and I still have a child at home.
So, you know, there is I always say complexity breeds
opportunity. Like the fact that we have to
manage so much and that doesn't necessarily die down.
It just gets more complicated over time.
You know, I think the industry could fill that void by saying,
OK, you know what, we will be your care navigators.
(26:57):
We will help in these transitional times.
You know, maybe you don't move in here full time, but your
mother had two hip replacements.Let her stay here for a short
period of time, get to know whatwe do, and then she cannot move
in because she doesn't need or want to.
But she can come and continue toeat in the meal meals that we
have, or she can come and be part of the programs that we
have. So I think we need to think of
(27:19):
ourselves in a very flexible way, but also in a very way.
And I think adult daughters are going to be looking for those
resources more and more to support our parents later in
life, the thinner and the more stretched we get.
Like I was saying, I'm like, Godwilling, everybody, my family
stays well, because in a few years my daughter's going to be
applying at college. And I'm like, that's going to be
(27:40):
quite an undertaking too, for all of us, right?
And so I do believe that in thisnew Panini generation, the
industry should play a role and serve the adult child.
And I've a lot of examples whereas a, as I always like to say,
people move out because they have to go to lately just to say
(28:00):
to the hospital and the industrydoesn't stay in touch
necessarily with the family. And there's a story I write
about in an Asha paper that's onmy website, meredithaphanam.com.
And I said, like this family hadan incident where the adult
daughter happened to be a nurse and and while the community
never was in touch with the family, when the mother-in-law
(28:20):
was in the hospital, they moved her back to the dementia area
and she had a catheter. And they said, oh, no, no, no,
no, you know, she can't live here with a catheter.
But they didn't know that. Nobody told them that the
hospital didn't know that. They didn't know where she was
going necessarily. And I couldn't believe it.
My friend who's a nurse had removed the catheter from her
(28:41):
mother-in-law because she couldn't stay in the community.
And once that happened, it was like within days, they decided
to move her out, you know, because had they managed those
transitions and had they coordinated that care, they
would have moved her to a nursing home where she could
have gotten and the support she needed and then brought her back
to the community. But, you know, we can't be on
defense. We've got to be on offense.
(29:02):
And as an adult daughter that's stretched so thin, I need that
support. We want that support in the
industry is well equipped. We just have to do what we do a
little bit differently and frankly, better.
Why are we the sandwich generation?
I'm always curious if I mean we're not the first generation
who's had older parents as well as younger kids, but I feel like
is it because we're so hyper aware of being in that role and
(29:25):
feeling compelled to to take care of both more than previous
generations? Why are we the sandwich
generation? You know, it's interesting.
I I do think the new longevity expands that period of time,
right. And so, you know, to be clear,
my dad, when he was so sick withtwo blood cancer, zone 2 blood
(29:48):
diseases, like even at like 10-15 years ago, he went to
survive. Like there would be no way that
he would have survived the sicknesses that he had.
He just want to right. But we were very lucky.
This was like 7 or 8 years ago. They had a home immunotherapy
drug and immunotherapy drug saved his life.
So we are part of the sandwich generation because the
(30:11):
modifications and enhancements and improvements in healthcare
are keeping people alive longer.I lost both of my grandfathers
before they turned 70 years old.Gone.
You know, they weren't even, I didn't even know that they were
sick, but they had one heart attack and they were dead.
That was it. They were gone.
(30:32):
And my grandmother's actually both lived into their 90s.
So when I got married to my husband, I told him, I said, you
better life me a lot because I have two grandmothers here.
You know, I said to him, you know, I'm 33 years old and you
know, I have two living grandmothers in the early 90s.
And you sure you want to make this decision because I may not
be going somewhere for a while. And, you know, I, I was very
(30:54):
fortunate that my grandmother's had long lives and my, my
parents had to work very hard, you know, to care for them while
they were caring for us. But like, the, the overlap, when
they needed the help, I was already out of the house, right?
Like when my grandmother's needed help, I was, you know, in
my late 20s, early 30s. Like, as much as my parents
(31:18):
still cared about me, I wasn't living under their roof.
So I do think us this generationhaving children later in life.
I have a very good friend who just had her first child at 50,
right? So I have many friends, male
friends that are have become fathers like in their early 50s,
like 5253. So I think this idea of women
(31:40):
having careers prolonging childbirth also becomes part of
this. And so put those factors
together, you know, I will have a young child at home when I,
you know, my daughter is 14. She just turned 15 rather.
And I just turned 52 yesterday, right?
(32:02):
And so in two years, like, she'll be out of the house at 53
when 54, right? Roughly 54 years old.
Like when my mother was 54, I was finishing my graduate
degree, right? Like it's just very different.
And so I do believe this new longevity coupled with later in
life having children makes thesetimes coincide.
(32:23):
And that's why this this push and the push and that Panini
reference we're not the first that makes.
Total sense we're not the. 1st Ijust, I think we're just the
most challenged to date. Yeah, No, I think about the fact
that all of my grandparents had passed by the time.
I think I was 25 or 26. So it was very different times
for sure. Yeah.
(32:44):
Exactly. And and these sudden heart
attacks, like I, I thank God it's not like that anymore,
right? Because I met like my
grandfather's. I feel like they missed my whole
life really, right. I lost them both when I was a
teenager and I just loved it. Like, you know, my grandmother,
my maternal grandmother saw my daughter be born.
(33:05):
You know, what a blessing, right?
For the women in the community that I meet there, a lot of them
are great, great grandmother's. Like, how remarkable is that?
To be 98 and meet your great, great grandchild?
It's fantastic, but it comes with a lot of responsibility.
Yeah. Wow, that's amazing.
I love that. I want to talk about the sales
(33:28):
script a little bit. I know you had mentioned the one
resident who waited five years to to find their community that
they chose to move into. What does that tell us about the
buyer journey? Are we, are we expecting too
much too soon? Are we not nurturing people long
enough throughout this process for them to really feel like
they found a place that they cancall home?
(33:49):
I mean, what, what is that telling us about that journey?
It's. Puzzling.
That story was so puzzling to me.
I'm like, She travelled all overthe country, known to me, she
was volunteering in a community in her neighborhood.
You know, I think that's about fit in every which way, shape
and form. So this woman is in a unique
situation. Like she was of Norwegian
(34:11):
descent and this happened to be like a European Community in
Chicagoland. And how cool is that?
Like, talk about fit, right? To come from a region of the
world, live in America, and thenfind people who affiliate in
some way, shape or form with andidentify with that cultural
(34:33):
experience. So I do think in terms of the
buyer journey, the fit piece is multi dimensional, right?
The people you surround yourselfwith, do you feel that vibe like
vitality? Society was very vivacious.
People really showed up. They like to talk to each other,
get to know each other. Like it was a very outgoing
(34:53):
group of people. Sure.
Where there are people there whowere introverts?
Absolutely, but they're going tobe an introvert about where they
are and they found community with us.
And also this idea of like timing, right?
It's not always the right time. So people show up because they
think it could be the right time, right?
(35:14):
But they see something, whether they think people are much older
than them or they don't see something like the two-bedroom
unit that they want, right? And it deters them from a move
in. So I do think like timing is
everything and you hear these stories all the time, right,
where people were on the list, where they were like waiting for
(35:35):
the right unit and then finally becomes available.
But that's an outlier. I do think you wait in this
industry and it used to be just an assistant assisted living
where there was like a need versus a desire, right?
Like an assisted living, you knew someone had a need and
they're more likely to move in quickly.
But at the end of the day, like I still feel an independent
(35:56):
living, there needs to be a need.
Like it still happens that way, right?
So as an example, a spouse passes away, you know, a home
becomes too complicated to navigate or costly to fix,
right? Or and your adult child moves
and it's too inconvenient for them to come and you want to be
near your grandchildren, like whatever the case may be.
(36:18):
Like that need is now pervasive,I think through the whole
industry and it's not just assisted living.
So I do think the timing piece, I do think the circumstance
piece and the buyer journey, like I'm going to be speaking at
a place for Mom conference and I'm so excited about that
because it is a little bit of a puzzle, right?
(36:39):
I'm working on my presentation. It's a puzzle and all the pieces
need to fit together, like the timing, the type of unit, the
location, the experiences, the, the amenities, like all of that
needs to fit right. And it's not so easy to do that.
And, and when that happens at the same time, like then you
know, it's the right place and people love it and they enjoy it
(37:02):
and they refer their friends and, and, but it, that journey
to find that fit is really tough.
And I, I always think about like, a lot of the people that I
know that have moved their lovedones into a community, like my
mom is so happy. You know, she didn't realize
that she was going to be this happy.
Like there's still this, I don'teven know what to call it.
(37:24):
It's like mystery of like, is this a good decision?
And until you get into the buildings and you feel it and
you see it, you're not even sureof it.
And I'll give you 2 examples. There was ATV show, everybody
saw it in the industry or a lot of people man on the inside with
Ted Danson, right? And he and he's like, it's
hilarious, right? And he's like working there as
(37:46):
you know, right? But like, when he moved in, he
was very apprehensive. You know, he wasn't planning on
staying. And he was kind of felt outside,
like the clique in the cluster and the energy and the vibrancy
of the community. And then he slowly got to know
people and the people that were the resident ambassadors got to
know him. And, you know, he got to know
(38:08):
the essence of these people and realize he was much more like
them than he wasn't. And he enjoyed them.
And so I loved that. But then you have TV shows like
Frank Frankie and Grace or Graceand Frankie, right, with Lily
Tomlin and Jane Honda. And you know, they gave a very
different perception of the industry, right?
(38:29):
Like Lily Tomlin loved to paint.She went into that community and
decided to paint wherever she wanted, whatever time she
wanted. And they were not allowing her
to do what she wanted on her ownterms.
And forget about Jane Fonda. She had her own business.
And they said this is a retirement community, you can't
work here. So this idea of the buyer
journey is you could meet peoplewhere they're at, right?
(38:52):
You want to help them be the best version of themselves.
If they love to paint, let them paint where they want to paint.
If they want to work, let them work where they want to work,
right? Like we as an industry need to
flex into the new buyer and the new buyer.
Like I said, what I learned withVitali Society, they're not done
yet, right? They see this is just getting
started. So this idea of coming as the
(39:13):
beginning of the end is an outdated notion that doesn't
appeal to this new generation. And we have an industry tests
depart from it as quickly and aswell as we can, because the
sooner we allow people to tell us what they need and want and
we flex to that, the better we're going to be, right.
It's like more of the Ritz Carlton like culture.
It's always a yes, right. You want to paint here at this
(39:35):
time? Yes.
You know, can I eat at 9:00 in the morning, you know, in the
dining room, even though the dining room is not open, you
know, until 9:30, Yes, Right. Like we just need to get to yes.
And it's not so easy, right? There's costs associated with
it. Staffing is very difficult, but
we need to work our model and adapt what we do so that people
(39:58):
feel like it's a place where they belong and they're
comfortable being there sooner than later.
I know I see a lot too with communities now.
They're conditioning down and depending on where they're
located, you see a lot of them playing to the lifestyle and the
heritage and affinity piece rather than the amenities and
activities. What role do you think that that
plays moving forward? Yeah.
(40:19):
I know it's so interesting. So yeah.
So I, I one of my favorite communities, when Hyatt opened
it up in Palo Alto was like right outside Stanford, you
know, in a beautiful place. And it was by Hyatt and they had
spas and they had delicious food.
And I remember my mentor at the time was a very wealthy man said
(40:41):
to me, like, wait a second, like, what's an entry fee?
Like I'm giving it all these millions of dollars down to live
in this beautiful place and I'm only getting 80% of it or
something. At the time, that's what he was
told back. He's like, that's not a deal how
any of us became very wealthy, right?
That's not a deal. I would do.
And I thought to myself, interesting, right?
(41:03):
Like if people feel that way, they're not going to move in
here. But on the other hand, it has
become one of the most sought after, one of them highest
occupied buildings. And there's wait lists to get
into that community. And I, I think it's the
amenities, like the gym was justbeautiful, The pool was
beautiful, the dining facilitieswere great.
(41:24):
The, the food looked delicious. Like it just took a very
hospitality approach to it. And I said, I remember when I
was touring the building, I was like, this is kind of place that
I would want to move into. And I at the time was like in my
30s, right? And so, you know, I, I think
there is an element and I, I always say to my husband, like,
I don't know where we're going to live.
You know, my daughter goes to college and I'm in like my 60s
(41:46):
and 70s. But I aspire one day to like
live in one of those like, you know, Ritz Carlton like programs
where I can live in many different hotels because I don't
want to maintain a house. You know, I live in a, I live in
an apartment right now and I love the properties and where
they are. I want to live a life where I
(42:06):
can go to a ski resort and ski. I want to go to a mountain area.
I want to go to the desert. You know, there's like there's a
variety and flexibility that comes with those packages and
programs. So you get the amenities and but
you also get the flexibility. And I think the industry lacks
that flexibility, right? You get all that you need and
want. You have one option how you're
(42:26):
going to buy it or rent it or entry Fiat, right?
And, and we need to provide options to people because when
you breakdown what these buildings offer and do, they're
it's remarkable, right? We're not turning people away
because generally we don't have enough.
Sometimes it's almost like we have too much and becomes too
expensive. And that's a whole other topic I
know we'll talk about. But like this idea of these over
(42:50):
amenities buildings is becoming so cost prohibitively expensive
is a deterrent or not even accessible to most people.
Yeah, talking about the 90% too,who never move in.
How do you reach the unreachable?
And what do you say to someone who sees themselves aging at
home and says I'm never moving in?
It's. My mom, I deal with her all the
(43:11):
time, you know, she both my parents.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, she was inspired me for
vitality society in so many waysbecause I I said to her when my
dad was so sick, I said, mom, you know, when something happens
to daddy, we didn't know when, but it seemed it was imminent.
Like, what am I going to do withyou?
Right. Because she was only like 72 at
(43:31):
the time. And she's like, I'll let you
know right now, I'm never movinginto any community.
You've ever been part of it. I was like, you know, I think
that's unfair because like, you don't even actually know what we
do. And and you haven't been to any
of the places that I'm part of. But this notion of like, she was
going to be stripped of her independence and stripped of
(43:52):
opportunities. Like she sees the world.
My mom is an internal optimist, right?
Like she wants bigger, more, right.
As time progresses. That's just not necessarily
early things, but experiences, right?
So as an example, my brother moved to Colorado with his kids
and she makes it her business come some way, shape or form to
(44:14):
see them on a monthly basis, right?
So if they're going to California, she goes to
California. If they're going here, she goes
there, right? And she takes my dad too.
And they have a different version of the trip usually, but
they're in the same place and she gets to see her grandkids
and be there with her like the generations of her family.
So at the end of the day, like Ijust, I, I think the baby
(44:35):
boomers are going to shake us up.
Like I give a talk, I, I love doing it.
It's how to, how to stop the baby boomers from busting the
industry, right? And, and I think there's a lot
to that, but one very key area is prevention, right?
And so this idea of prevention being the best medicine, like
(44:55):
until I can convince my mom and people like her that by coming
to a community like ours, you can actually prove over time
that your health is going to improve.
Like that's substantial and that's really compelling and
interesting. Going to a place where she's
going to quote UN quote with or away is not right.
(45:19):
And so the more we as an industry could tailor the
experiences and offer them in a way that it's going to be
expansive and see this idea of improvement.
I think the better you know, we are and and and better off we're
going to make everybody be and and the more relevant we become
and and like we talked about, the sooner they're going to
(45:39):
come. The vast majority of people
aren't interested because we haven't made ourselves that
interesting, Jerry. That's true.
I think most sales pitches revolve around simplifying your
life and and making things more convenient.
But it's it's actually about living better, right?
I look at senior living that wayand I think I would love to live
(46:02):
in a certain type of community. It would definitely have to be a
specific kind, but it would be 1where I can live better than I'm
living now. Otherwise, why would I do that?
Why? Bother.
Exactly, exactly. That's why I say like that Ritz
Carlton hotel. I was like, Oh my God, you know
what? I could travel to all these
places, live without the maintenance, live without the
(46:23):
housekeeping, live without worrying with the food, you
know, like it's convenient. And I don't know.
I think there is also, I remember my one of my
grandmother's, my maternal grandmother, after Hurricane
Sandy, she was living in Queens.That's where she raised my mom
and she lived for decades and she lost power.
And it was, you know, remember it was like late October, early
(46:44):
November, and I moved my grandmother into one of the
communities very close to her home.
And they were wonderful to her, right?
They brought blankets from corporate for the residents that
they brought, you know, all these extension cords and light
and other things. Like it was really quite
remarkable because they lost power as well.
And I was so impressed. And my grandmother said to me,
(47:04):
you know, Marila, I said, grandma, you could stay.
Like they love you here. And I know that they'd be happy
to have you. And she's you can't live on
caviar alone. And I was like, what's that
mean? Right.
And I thought to myself, like, her generation, that was like
the war generation. My grandfather was in World War
2, right? Like she grew up in the
(47:26):
Depression, like having this affluence or abundance like was
a negative connotation to her, right?
Like she, she didn't want to live like that.
She was a very simple woman thatlived in a small house that
raised her family. She stayed there for decades.
Like the simplicity was what shelike loved.
My mother is so different than that, right?
(47:47):
Wind her up, bring her to California, go on a walking tour
of like Chinatown, like we did, go to Napa Valley for the
afternoon walk mere woods cross,you know, the Golden Gate
Bridge. Like she wants experiences.
You know, the simplicity that mygrandmother saw.
It is like the absolute oppositeof what my mother wants.
Like she wants, and I wouldn't even say fancy.
(48:10):
She wants fulfilling, right? I like the fancy.
I don't know if I'll be able to afford it, but I I like the
fancy my mom looks for fulfilling, right?
And and that's what I think the boomers want.
They want to be fulfilled. This is their time, right?
They always lived on their own terms.
They always redefined things as they wished and want and wanted.
(48:30):
Like why are we asking them to fit into our box, right?
We've got to flex the box to their desires.
I know we're almost out of time.Do you have do you have time for
one more question? Absolutely.
We're just getting warmed up, Jerry.
This is fun. I know.
I think my last question to you is how can communities monetize
value for people who still want to age in place?
(48:54):
So this is a good one. So the nonprofit that I work
for, I absolutely love this chapter of my career, has a
remarkable CEO, great executive team.
And what's so interesting about their portfolio is they have
their life plan communities, right, that are the full
continuum independent assisted often dementia nursing on a
(49:16):
single campus. And then they also had one
rental assisted dementia, which I've spent a lot of my career
working on that type of product.And then they have these at home
businesses and ones like a long term care insurance business and
managing and supporting people through transitions and
challenges of aging. And then the second really is a
home health business. And I just love that they're set
(49:39):
up to succeed no matter where people and how people choose to
age. And so the at home business
might be a feeder to one of our communities or one of our
communities. People living in independent
living may want one of the home health aides so they can age in
place in a certain part of the building because maybe their
(50:00):
spouse is able to be fully engaged and they know a lot of
could do so, but they want to remain in the same unit.
So I think that these companies that are able to be very
flexible and adaptable and services that they're offering
to those who reside and even want to stay at home, but also
the opportunity to say, OK, you're going to reside at home.
(50:22):
We're going to care for you at home.
But through all of these different ride programs that
exist like Ubers and Lyfts, you've come to these communities
and have it as a hub of activityfor people who choose to reside
at home, but are striving to be part of something bigger on more
limited terms. And so I think our industry,
provided, you know, it doesn't get in the way of approvals and
(50:45):
licensure and everything else, there is an opportunity to
decouple what we do and give people pieces of parts of what
we offer at the right time. And it's not going to be a
one-size-fits-all. So we as an industry shouldn't
have one solution, we should have many.
And I just love what the nonprofit does because they meet
people where they're at, they provide them what they need,
they support that they want to live differently and we've got
(51:07):
them right. And they also have a very large
affordable piece. So we haven't spoken about that
yet, but this particular organization has 19 affordable
communities and their wait listsare years long because there's
just not enough supply. And we as an industry have not
figured out the affordable pieceall that well, right?
There's some organizations, particularly the nonprofits, who
(51:29):
do it very well, but there aren't even enough of us that
could figure this out or have done enough of it to date.
And so this affordability question and challenge is
something we really need to sortout and figure out pretty soon
because it is going to be one ofthe greatest challenges of our
time. Talk about Panini generation,
right? We're stretched so thin with our
time, but also with our money. And how do we support our loved
(51:52):
ones if a lot of us, you know, are really just getting by as
well? And so it's really going to be a
challenge and something our industry has to begin to think
about. It's hard enough to do what we
do and then to do it in the mostaffordable way.
When you have labor challenges and financing costs going up and
you know, all these other costs that make it very demanding and
(52:14):
challenging from a, an entry perspective, right?
We just become so expensive thatmost people, even if they wanted
to come cherry, they can't. And so for me, I, I, I really,
I'm so grateful for this chapterof my career to be able to, to
span the home, the community is an affordable and more market
rate because I do think we've got to sort that out.
(52:35):
And I'm grateful for the opportunity part of figuring
that out. I love everything you're doing.
I think it's amazing work. Where can our audience go to
learn more about your work and connect with you?
Sure. So, meredithoppenheim.com.
So you see the spelling of my name?
No, Blake and meredithapanam.com.
I tend to post a lot on LinkedIn.
(52:58):
So I try to really pour my heartand mind into this by
challenging the industry to think differently and explore
different dimensions and and I have observations that I share
there a lot. So I'd love to get connected
with whomever would like to be in touch with me.
I'd love to hear what other people are doing and seeing and
(53:19):
saying. So please make me a contact and
I'd love to stay connected. And Jerry, thank you again for
this opportunity. Absolutely.
This is such a pleasure. So thank you so much for for
hopping on. As we wrap up today's episode, I
want to thank you, Meredith Oppenheimer, for sharing your
deep experience and critical insights into how we can better
(53:40):
serve the next generation of older adults.
From challenging assumptions about readiness to reimagining
how we define value, your work urges us to break out of the old
mold and rethink what senior living could be.
So if you want to connect with Meredith or explore her work
with Vitality Society and seniorhousing innovation, all the
links are in our show notes. As always, we hope you found
(54:00):
this episode insightful and inspiring.
And don't forget to subscribe onyour favorite platform and stay
tuned for more episodes where wecontinue to explore the evolving
world of senior care, covering everything from care models and
leadership strategies to policy equity in the future of aging.
And also remember that From Leads to Leases isn't just an
audio experience. We're also a video podcast.
So you can subscribe to our YouTube or Spotify channels to
(54:22):
watch the full episodes. I'm Jerry Vinci, CEO of CCR
growth. Thank you for joining us on From
Leads to Leases. And please like, subscribe and
share this episode with anyone who might find it useful.
Until next time, lead with strategy and with heart.
Chat with you again soon. Thanks, Meredith.
Thank you. Jerry.
Thanks for listening to From Leads to Leases.
(54:43):
Are you ready to fill your roomsfaster and increase occupancy?
Visit ccrgrowth.com to learn about our Senior Growth
Innovation Suite, a proven system to generate highly
qualified tour ready leads, accelerate sales and reduce
acquisition costs. Let's connect and turn your
challenges into opportunities. See you.
Next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com