April 23, 2025 • 59 mins
Have you ever wondered what it really means to become someone's caregiver? Beyond the practical tasks lies a profound journey that transforms not just the life of the person receiving care, but the caregiver themselves.
Vaughn Fahie, host of "Caregivers Like Us" podcast, joins us to share his experience of caring for his mother for six years after her stroke. What began as an act of love became a complete life transformation that shifted his perspective on what truly matters. Von explains how he and his co-host Coach Christy created their podcast by simply "pushing record" to share stories that would help others navigate the often overwhelming journey of caregiving.
We dive deep into the hidden realities of caregiving that are rarely discussed—from the challenges of caring for parents who might have been abusive, to the strain on marriages, finances, and personal goals. Vaughn provides powerful insights into the daily grieving process caregivers experience as they prepare for loss while providing care. Unlike raising children toward independence, caregiving involves the painful knowledge that the journey ends with death.
Perhaps most striking is Vaughn's reflection on life after caregiving ends. The "post-assignment" period brings its own struggles as caregivers must rediscover their identities while processing grief, guilt, and often a lack of acknowledgment for their sacrifice. Yet despite these challenges, Vaughn notes something remarkable: caregivers universally emerge from the experience with greater compassion and a transformed perspective on what truly matters.
Whether you're currently caring for someone, know someone who is, or may someday face this reality yourself, this conversation offers vital wisdom on answering one of life's most demanding calls. As Vaughn reminds us, through caregiving we learn that "what matters matters"—a philosophy that continues to guide him long after his mother's passing.
Subscribe and share this episode to help others understand the profound truths about caregiving and to honor those who have answered this call of love and sacrifice.
Season 2
Unraveling the Mind: From Mental Struggles to Inner Strength.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the From Wounds to Wisdom podcast with
your host, Barbie Moreno, wherewe dive into people's past and
discover what wounds theyincurred and how they
transformed those wounds intowisdom to help themselves and
others.
Welcome to the Mental HealthPodcast.
(00:29):
This is your host, BarbieMoreno, and today I have Von Foy
.
He is a voice brander and hasbeen an audio engineer and
saxophonist for over threedecades.
He has a podcast calledCaregivers Like Us, and he was a
caregiver for his mom for sixyears, and that's actually what
we're going to talk about todaythe hidden truth to being a
caregiver and what it reallyinvolves.
Welcome, Vaughn.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Absolutely so you know, interesting to have a
podcast about being a caregiver.
Tell me why and how thathappened.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I mean why and how that happened.
The interesting thing myco-host Coach Christy.
She was a caregiver for her sonthat had a syndrome that wasn't
curable and she was actuallyreally.
We've been friends since highschool and she really helped me
out when my mom had her strokeand she was able to talk about
(01:29):
all the behind the scenes thingsthat I had no idea what to do
medically.
She was a respiratory therapistand she was able to give a lot
of advice, to be an advocate formom, to give power of attorneys
to.
This is what you say.
This is what you need to.
No-transcript.
(02:14):
We just pushed record andstarted sharing the stories of
what people need to know.
It's okay not to understandwhat's going on, or it's okay
that you don't have all theanswers, not to understand
what's going on, or it's okaythat you don't have all the
answers and we just continue toinvite people to talk about
(02:35):
their journey of answering thecall to caregiving, because you
don't know about it or you hearabout it, but unless you're a
caregiver, there's just somethings you just don't relate to
or that you need help with andyou won't ask for that help
until you become a caregiver.
So we want it to be a resourceand solution for those
caregivers that when they answerthe call.
So that's how it came aboutactually on my birthday and we
(02:59):
just started pushing record andcoming from there started
pushing record and coming fromthere.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So my my interest in the caregiving story because I
love talking about mental healthand obviously the podcast is
mental health is more of thewhat is it like to care for
somebody?
And I'm sure you've talked tolots of people and you probably
have your own experiences where,let's say, for instance, I'll
(03:28):
give my dad still alive.
I don't really talk to him, butif for some reason I had to
take care of him and he was nota nice human being, I could not
imagine I would be so resentfulhaving to take care of somebody
who was not a good parent to me.
Do you have that situation thatpeople come across or maybe you
guys have come across that Like, how does that work?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, we've have actually several episodes of
authors that have wrote theirbooks, Actually, and my mom's
favorite caregiver shout out toKimberly she gave that exact
story Like she would she would.
She gave that exact story likeshe would she would her mother
(04:10):
had allowed all of this abusephysical, sexual and emotional,
like horrid stories that throughher childhood into her teens
until she went on her own.
Then, when her mom was sick,she was the only one of her
siblings that and she chose totake care of her mom with all of
that and she went through awhole bunch of healing and she
(04:34):
would be great to be on yourpodcast.
But just that.
And there's several othersEllen, we just had her on the
show as well.
That same thing very controllingor abusive parents and then at
the end of their journey, theychose to take care of them and
(04:57):
they talk about the reality ofno, they totally tore my life up
and messed me up and we've hada total disrupted relationship
and now I'm caring for them andI have to deal with the
resentment.
(05:17):
I have to deal with all of thatstuff that's there in the midst
of taking care of you and maybeeven still, we're still acting
the same way, Right?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Because just because they get older and maybe they
have dementia or whatever thecase of me doesn't mean that
they change who they are Right.
So they were an asshole whenyou were a kid.
They're an asshole when you'rean adult and now you're like I
have to take care of thisasshole and it's like it sounds
bad and people might say likethat's mean, but it is what it
is right.
If they're not a nice personyet you still decide to take in
(05:50):
the role of being a caregiver.
Because I'm being honest withyou, if my dad needed a
caregiver, I would not step upto the plate.
If my mom needed a caregivershe was not the most amazing
person either I would step up tothe plate.
So I do think that we have likechoices that we make.
I mean, I would be veryresentful.
I'm gonna be honest, like it iswhat it is right.
I would be mad, I'd be angryand I would probably get annoyed
(06:12):
with her because I'm thinkingto myself I'm doing all of the
things you didn't do for me.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
That's real Right.
Yeah, it's real feelings.
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah, it's real feelings.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, there's real things and you're right People
what they had said when we hadthose guests.
They were like, well, how canyou know that's your mom?
It's like, yeah, exactly, yeah,it is my mom Right.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, and it's sometimes why we even allow
those people in our lives.
Anyways, if you, besides thefact that, like you know, if
you're going to be a caregiverto them, it feels like there's
people in family where we'relike, okay, they were not the
best person, but they're stillmy mom, so I'm going to allow
them into my life.
Maybe I'll put boundariesaround it.
That's my situation.
And then there's those peopleyou're like, yeah, it doesn't
really matter.
If you're like, you're just notallowed into my life, right,
(07:00):
but then you take on the roleagain.
It goes back to being acaregiver, which its role in and
of itself is a full time job, Iwould imagine.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Absolutely.
It's a life change.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
It's a life change.
Do you think it's differentthan having children?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
It is different than having children.
That's a great question,because I moved my family in and
I moved my son in to my mom'shouse.
Family in and I moved my son into my mom's house and but
having children, it's like, doyou?
You care for your child in away, because you're parenting
(07:39):
them.
In the case of for me, with myparent, you're making a choice.
What am I?
My grandfather used to alwaysjust say once a man, twice a
child.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And where now you're looking to someone who was your
hero, who you looked up to oryou know, or who did care for
you, and now you're, in turn,doing things for them that they
did for you.
So where it's natural like,well, no, this, no, this is my
child.
I'm it's like almost defaultwhere I'm going to take care of
(08:08):
them.
So it's different because ithas to be a choice and it's at
the same time, so it's both upand up and down, but, like they
say, the sandwich generation.
Now, for my co-host, it was herchild and she was caregiving.
So was it was one in the same,but she also had two older kids
as well.
So it was now, how am I caringfor this son?
(08:31):
But at the same time, this istaking away from my parenting,
so to speak, and so there was alot of dynamics in that.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, it's, I think it's
different.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, well, it's different, like you were saying,
because, like, so, I think mychildren are the gift to the
world, right?
I mean, they literally walk onwater for me.
I know that they're not perfectin any way, shape or form, but
that my love for them isunconditional.
And in the same breath, I don'tknow that I could say the same
(09:05):
thing about a parent.
Right Now.
I hope that they say that aboutme.
Who knows?
Right, I'm sure that they'regoing to have their.
We all have our own issues withour parents, but yeah, I mean,
and then, like you said, yourco-host having to take care of a
child who is your baby, andthen you have other children and
I would imagine that there'sresentment from the other
(09:27):
children and we always feel likewe're failing people absolutely
.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I always feel like I'm not doing, I didn't do
enough, even to now.
And we talk about that even asadults, and even our loved ones
passed on um we share about yeah, we never felt like we did
enough, or or we didn't do itright, or I could have did this
better or I could have did allof those, the, the guilt and the
(09:54):
shame of you.
You answer a call, you you madea decision to care, but you
never feel like you're, younever feel like I'm doing this
exactly right, or you know it'slike, oh, I could have did this
better.
And it's daily, it could bemoment by moment, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I would imagine there's moments you walk away
and you're like oh, I could havehandled that better.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Absolutely All the time.
You're always learning.
There's always a.
You're always learning andyou're always forgiving yourself
, forgiving the other person,accepting that.
You know the situation is whatit is, cause sometimes you'll be
like man.
You'll sometimes you'll feellike I just want to quit.
I don't want to do this anymore.
(10:45):
I'm not, I'm not being.
You may not feel you knowthere's, there's not a lot of
appreciation, or the person thatyou're caring for may not be
able to say thank you.
You may never hear that in thewhole, however long that journey
is.
Fortunately, you know I wasable to um, but but there's
(11:07):
several, several, several thatnever had and um, you either had
to receive that from outside oraccept that you did what you
did, you gave what you gave andand and take it as that.
And you hear from other peoplelike, wow, I can't believe how
(11:27):
you did that.
Now you know I honor you howyou do that you know, but you
may not feel that way.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Right, it's like the thankless job.
So, you're alive or has shepassed?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
She passed, she passed.
I mean it's funny because todayis actually her birthday she
passed.
It's funny because today isactually her birthday, birthday,
mama, yeah, happy, happilybirthday.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And but she passed on .
March 29th will be two years,so two years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So how was your relationship with her as a child
?
And then in that situationThankfully, my story for me and
my brother we, we were reallyclose with mom, like every day
was mother's day.
Uh, she was, um, you know, myparents were separated when
probably I was in what was that?
Junior high, and mom basicallyraised us and, but my mom was
(12:26):
very passive, timid, but wecalled her Mighty Mouths because
she was just very, you know,just very strong and consistent
and loyal in her own way and butas a child we knew that we were
loved.
Mom was always here.
She, you know, she raised usinto in church, for us and being
(12:51):
, you know, and I alwayssupported our music and
everything.
She was supportive in anythingand everything that we did.
So and actually she caregivedfor both her parents died here
at the house and her, her sisterand her brother.
She care gift for all four ofthem and and so.
So it was no question for us,it was no question of, like you
(13:15):
know, we're not putting her in afacility, we're going to keep
her at home and we're going todo whatever it takes.
We didn't have, you know, wedidn't even have finances for to
keep her at a facility andstuff and it was.
You know, we learned of thedifferent resources and things
to be able to take care of herat home.
So taking care of her was, itwas like almost a no-brainer.
(13:39):
That didn't say that it waswithout frustrations and things
like that or challenges, whichthere was, but, um, because I've
watched her be a caregiver forall of her family, it was
absolutely.
It was just default that we'regonna um, that's how she brought
us up, that's how her characterwas.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
so she was just returned on what she um, what
she planted all of the life, soon her um place and it was like
loving mom and caregiver, that'swhat we put on her on your
podcast uh, on your podcast,caregivers like us I would
imagine you hear like we weretalking about stories of mothers
that were people who were notnearly as blessed as you with a
(14:23):
mother like that, right, and sodoes that make you like look
back on your life with a feelingof gratitude?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Oh, absolutely, me and my brother were talking
about this.
We hear, you know, justdifferent stories.
You know we were kind ofsomeone in a bubble, raised in
the bubble and as we've traveledand grown and involved in
meeting with different people,just hearing different stories
that were so different from ourlives, and we're like I, some
(14:56):
things I was like I couldn't, Ijust couldn't imagine.
We couldn't imagine those kindof discussions in the house or
non-discussions, or those kindof discussions in the house or
non-discussions or um, and yes,hearing that I could definitely
empathize, I guess, if thatwould be the word with like I
don't know how you, how you didthat and you came back to serve,
(15:18):
right, you know, with thatthat's, it's just way over the
top, because I have no, yeah, wewere very blessed and we know
that.
We know that, like my mom was,even the caregivers was like, oh
, your mom has the dementia butyou know she's a sweetheart
compared to other clients thatwe work with.
(15:39):
You know they have theirdementia.
They're like Crazy, they don'tchange because they get dementia
.
Actually it magnifies whateveris in there and if they were
mean, it's just amplified ifthey were bossy, controlling and
and uh, the stories that Iheard of my mom's caregivers and
(16:00):
um and people that we have onon the show for different you
know, different, differentthings.
So, yeah, we were, yeah, wewere definitely blessed.
That's another reason why Iwanted to share the stories,
because I know that my story isvery rare, like super rare.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
To you know, like other parents, even my
upbringing and stuff is justdifferent.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You have a lot of love for mom.
Where's dad?
It's just different.
You have a lot of love for mom.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Where's dad?
My dad is up in Spokane,washington.
I have a lot of respect for him.
It's interesting because, eventhough they split, he always
provided for us and my mom evento helping with the funeral
costs and stuff and he was there.
So our relationship had hasgrown and you know him and his
(16:51):
significant other.
Him and my mom split, like Isaid, very young, and so he was.
He was out of the home.
Mom raised us One book Iprobably will write.
Is called from eighth grader toout of the home.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Mom raised us One book I probably will write is
called From Eighth Grader to manof the House.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, because mom really relied on me, she was
very dependent and I really tookon that role, and in several
different ways.
But yeah, but that is up north.
We have a very closerelationship and respecting.
There's always, you know, justthings growing up and even
(17:37):
through relationship with myfamily, with my son and, as of
this podcast, kind of goingthrough a dissolving my marriage
and so some of the same thingsthat I, my dad, experienced.
It's like, oh wow, it'sinteresting how I want to make
sure things aren't happeningwith my son and making sure that
(18:00):
we're cool and things like that.
So Isn't it funny how life doesthat we're cool and things like
that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So Isn't it funny, how life does that.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, very, very like wow, I would have never the
very thing that I never wantedto do.
And then it's, it's happeningand I was like, okay, well,
here's the lessons, and andmaking sure to keep the mindset
so that it's healthy, andhealthy first.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And that's when you can tell a healthy person,
because the fact that you sayhere's the lessons, I also view
life.
It's not for me.
It's okay.
Here's the lessons.
Like here's a learn.
Let's talk about the caregivingpart of it.
You said you started yourpodcast because you wanted
people to kind of get like anidea of the behind the scenes,
right?
So somebody with dementia who'snot an angel like your mom,
(18:51):
let's talk about what it's liketo be a caregiver.
That you've heard andexperiences and stuff like that.
What are the people who aretaking, who are there day to day
with these people, their familymembers?
What are they having toencounter that we really don't
know about?
That is really something thatwould be very difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, a lot is the ongoing, daily and moment by
moment grieving that ishappening, because one you're
grieving.
You're grieving both the parentthat you never had, that you
wish you would have had, but itwas just terrible coming up, so
(19:29):
you're reliving or amplifyingthat grief.
Then you're also grieving thefact that they're dying and
you're caring for them, andthere's still the resentment, or
, if it hasn't, you know, oryou're caring for them and
there's still the resentment, or, if it hasn't, you know, or
you're still healing throughwhichever.
(19:49):
However, you're processing,making the decision to to serve.
In this way, you're grieving ata level and what's happening
live is that maybe that thethings that you were so
resentful for or that affected,or what's happening live is that
maybe that the things that youwere so resentful for, or that
affected or was negative, ishappening right now while you're
trying to extend care, and itis ultimately it's.
(20:14):
It's frustrating because notthat there isn't no other
options, but they have chosen tocare.
I'm going to choose to love andcare, even though it's not all
fluffy whatsoever battle zone,painful, hurtful, bringing up
(20:39):
things, reopening up wounds,making new wounds.
And what's so hard is thatthey've chose to still care and
keep dignity as much as possibleand to still honor, even though
(21:04):
honor isn't deserved, or maybeeven love, or or the support
isn't deserved.
They've chosen to do thatregardless of what didn't wasn't
reciprocal.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
What was not given to them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
What was not given to them or is not even reciprocal,
and knowing that it'll nevercome.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, I know my aunt.
So my aunt, my mom's side, tookcare of my grandma who had like
a ridiculous amount of strokesand like was bedridden for like
10 years and none of the otherkids stepped up there like 10
years and none of the other kidsstepped up.
There were six kids.
None of the other kids steppedup.
They would come visit when theyfelt like it, right, but my
aunt's life stopped for like 10years, like you know.
(21:49):
I mean she worked and stufflike that, but like literally
her she had.
She didn't get to go onvacations because who's going to
take care of mom, right?
Um, she had to always make suresomebody was there, like she
always, like I mean her.
It was like having a newbornchild, absolutely.
I mean she changed diapers sheabsolutely right so it's like
(22:12):
starting all over again, but thedifference is this person again
is not your child and alsothey're.
They're stuck in their ways.
My grandma was mean to her,like I.
I know my grandma.
My grandma was kind of like aquieter person, but I know she
was not saying the nicest stuffto her sometimes and the funny
thing is like nobody from myfamily, now that I think about
(22:33):
it, ever told my aunt, thank youyeah, yeah, it's the thing when
you said it earlier.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It is, it can be a very thankless, um, it's a.
It's a thankless from theoutside.
Uh, and and when you and we, we, when, like she's the one that
answered the call in there,there was other people and they
may have visited here or there,but they didn't contribute to
(23:02):
the care or it was very, veryminimal.
And you know, she was there forher mom, like 24, seven,
managing who's going to care,and stuff, like yeah, and it's
and it's.
And those that don't come inand contribute, they have no
idea.
They have an image like, ohwell, well, you know, all you
(23:23):
need to do is just be there, youknow, talk with her and put her
to sleep, and there's likethere's a whole nother world of
country.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, you know it's funny, like as we're talking I'm
thinking about, in fact Iremember some of the family
members saying now, mygrandmother didn't have like a
bunch of money or anything, butobviously she was getting like
Medicare or whatever mygrandfather had passed.
So there was some money there,not a ton.
But I remember some of thefamily members saying like, oh,
she's just doing it, so she getsthe money.
And I'm just thinking to myselfnow, like talking to you, like
(23:51):
what a shitty thing to say,right, it is because the money
is not that I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, right it is because the money is not that
I'm telling you like, yeah, yeah, you know, I, I, we got system.
My mom was on uh medicare andwe had medical and I was a um,
it's called home support, youknow services, and so I was a
paid caregiver from the state.
But it is, it does not.
It does it's a fraction of whatis needed and, yeah, it's a
(24:23):
fraction.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And do you hear people talk about that?
Is that something that peoplesay?
Like the family members are,like you know, they don't even,
they're not even grateful forthe work that they've done,
because they feel like there'san ulterior motive to it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, and in some like say, if some of the family
members like say they're youknow, let's just say their
parents, they did have money orthere was, you know, they had a
whole bunch of savings, or theyhad things and the person that's
caregiving that got the powerof attorney.
Now you hear stories aboutabuse as well, like they drained
all their accounts, they putthe house in their name and all
(24:59):
of this stuff.
That where it is about themoney and less about the care.
Well, I'm caring because I'mgoing to get this or deserve
this.
But in the cases where that is,that I think that is kind of the
what's the image or impression,I think, oh well, you're caring
Then somehow if you stop work.
(25:19):
Yeah, you're getting paid.
What you did on your business,you know I had to stop my
business or it was very, verylimited on what you know, my
business.
And thank God I'm anentrepreneur, because if I was a
regular employee I would.
I would be.
I would either be fired or Iwould be laid off or because of
the time six years.
(25:40):
But yeah, I think the image.
People think that oh, you'regetting, you're getting, you're
getting well paid, or you'redriving their car so you don't
have any car payments anymore.
You don't have.
You know, you're at the house,you don't have a mortgage
anymore, but you don't, you haveno idea.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, you have no idea it's like being a parent.
Yeah, you have no idea it'slike being a parent.
It really is right, like youkind of have to sacrifice a lot
in order to do it and do it well, right, I mean, you could
always just keep somebody in abed and not take care of them,
but if you're going to do it andyou call and you answer the
call, which is what you call itanswer the call, um, because I
would imagine that those peoplewho are like that, where they're
(26:15):
draining the savings, just likeanybody else I would imagine,
is few and far between.
It's not the majority, right,right, just like you know, in
anything you have good and youhave people who are not great,
but I would say majority of thepeople.
If they're going to step up tothe plate, they're doing it
because they are somebody whocares and loves and wants to be
(26:39):
there, even though it's hard andnobody appreciates you right.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, somehow, some way, there is something inside
that is overcoming all of thehurt, pain, resentment, and
knows that this is going to bethe best for this person that
we're caring for.
This is going to be the best forthem, and I will endure long
(27:03):
suffer put up with, but this isstill the best for you and I
feel that I am the one to beable to carry that through for
you, because maybe I am the onlyone, or maybe I'm part of a
team or something, but normallyit's like one person, it's like
and there's just a resolve thatI'm going to do this.
(27:25):
And this is where we, you know,we feel it's like it's the
ultimate sacrifice, because I'mgoing to lay down, okay, my
goals, my, my business, myfamily in a lot of cases, my, my
sons, my daughters, my other,my siblings, my wife it was very
(27:48):
, you know, for me it was verybringing, you know, my family
into my mom's house, caring forher yeah, put a major struggle
on them on the marriage, andthen she was caregiving, and for
her family as well.
So we had like dual caregiving.
So, yeah, but I was never notgoing to care for my mom.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
And so you sacrifice all that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Do a lot of people end up divorced who decide to be
caregivers?
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
You know what I don't I've heard, I haven't looked up
the statistics but yeahdefinitely.
Yeah, definitely puts a toll,especially if there's not a.
I don't know what thecaregiving itself brings about
the divorce.
But if there's in therelationship, if there's not an
understanding and a, there's allkinds of factors going in, like
(28:37):
because when it comes it's notlike it's planned, and if
there's not tools orcommunication ready to deal with
that can talk through or workthrough that new dynamic, then
yeah, it's definitely impactful.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Well, and I would imagine so, if you're somebody
who your parent was abusive yourspouse knows your parent was
abusive then you're bringingthis abusive parent even if it's
later, many, many years laterright Into your home, like your
spouse.
Wants is hurt when you're hurt.
If you have a good spouse, right?
Your spouse is hurt when you'rehurt and your spouse probably
(29:18):
doesn't want the person who hashurt you the most in your life
in their home 24 7, because theydon't.
I mean, I couldn't even imaginemy husband would probably be
like what are you like?
What are you doing?
Like this person did all ofthese things to you and now
they're in our home 24 seven andyou're giving up all of this
(29:40):
part of our life for them.
Like, like, that's just a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It is and that's.
I think that's where part, whereagain, it really challenges and
it brings like for the marriage, for like the one to be able to
take care of it.
It's either a supportive I'mgoing to go through with you
because there's an understandingof why you're making the
(30:05):
sacrifice, cause again you'reanswering the call and feeling
like, well, you know, and ofcourse you may discuss it.
Um, um, you know, my, my wifeand I had, we had discussed,
actually we were planning ongetting renting a home that was
big enough to have all of ourparents there, like we're just
going to have all the old peoplebe in one place so we can take
(30:25):
care of them.
And so there was going in withthe understanding.
But I think the dynamics change.
But if there's a conversation,if there's an understanding, and
it's like you know, at somepoint, or even right away, it's
like I just feel I have to dothis.
So either the spouse is youknow, will become supportive of
(30:47):
that, or learn to be Cause.
So it's also they answer thecall too, because they're part
of it and that's a whole.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's a whole different thing, because you
specifically said there was noway you weren't going to take
care of your mom, right?
So if your spouse and let'sjust again, let's take the
scenario away that you're adifferent person not a lot of
people have an amazing mother,right?
So let's your spouse you'relike there's no way I'm not
going to take care of my motherand your spouse is just like not
the person like you isn'tsomebody who would be called to
(31:17):
be a caregiver, which I imaginemajority of people, again, I
would say, are not called to becaregivers.
So even if one spouse is calledto be the caregiver, most
likely they're married tosomebody or in a relationship
with somebody who is not right.
We usually marry our opposite.
So so, yeah, I mean like itchanges that entire relation.
(31:39):
I can't imagine that it doesn'tput a even in a healthy
relationship.
I can't imagine it doesn't puta lot of strain on it.
You know what I mean Likefinancial strain, emotional
strain.
There's only so much time inthe day.
You have other people in thehousehold who need your
attention.
You feel like you're failingall of the time because you
can't get to everybody andeverybody else's needs.
You're not taking care of yourown needs.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So you're probably exhausted, you're probably worn
down, you're probably becomingunhealthy.
Is this all true?
Yeah, yeah, it's a poll, and ifyou're not getting the support
or encouragement and it's like,oh well, now you're, now you're
failing in all areas, okay Well,oh man, my son, I'm neglecting
time with my son, son, I'mneglecting time with my son.
I'm neglecting time with mywife.
(32:23):
Um, I'm paying all attention tomy mom.
That's here and now they're offdoing other things.
I still have to bring uh, incomein.
I still, you know, there'sstill a whole life that was
before instantly adding on.
And so the, the person youwrite finances and stuff.
So, okay, well, what do weagree?
You know it has to be allrenegotiated.
(32:45):
Well, extra stuff that was here, and I mean she can't eat, she
needs to be fed, she can't beleft alone, she has to be 24
seven.
So we have to get someone tocome in.
That's a cost, that's anexpense, you, you know, for us
to go out to eat or have a dayat disneyland or something.
So, yeah, there's all kind offactors that immediately come in
(33:07):
and change, change life and um,and if you don't have, have or
use the tools to work throughthat and um, that's one of the
main reasons.
Another reason with the, withthe podcast, is like these are
tools that, when this comes up,you're if you know you may not
(33:29):
have readily answers or peopleto talk to, or even you can't
really research this quickly ongoogle um.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
You know what do you?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
do when you spouse and caregiving.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
You know right so and you're preparing for somebody's
death yeah yeah, I mean, that'sa whole.
That's exactly what's going onright, like, sadly, you are now
preparing for somebody's death.
So you're doing all of thiswork knowing that.
So like it's different whenyou're raising kids because
you're preparing for them to gointo the world right for their
leaving, right for them leavingthe nest and them excelling and
(34:01):
them finding their own life, andthere's beautiful joy of giving
them the tools to find thisbeautiful life right.
But this is the opposite you'repreparing for this person to go
and leave you and to die andthen to not ever to be able to,
for them to say like when yourkids leave.
And then they have a life andyou get to see the beauty that
comes from their life and theyhave children and you get to
(34:21):
meet your grandchildren and youget to go through all of these
different things.
There is a reward right, butthere's no reward at the end of
this.
There is a loss of somebody inyour life.
Whether you had a goodrelationship or a bad
relationship.
If you stepped up to be theircaregiver, you obviously love
them at some point in your life,and so you are preparing to
lose somebody that you loved.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, yeah.
You're preparing to lose them.
You don't know when.
It could be any day.
In a lot of situations it couldbe any day.
It can be.
Sometimes you wish it was todayand it's another 10 years
because it could be very longlong, yeah, long term, um, and
(35:04):
it could be like.
You know, I thought, mom, um,she didn't die from dementia,
she, it was a anothercomplication, actually, she had
a heart attack, and so it wassomething totally different from
what what the uh, the ailmentwas, and so it was somewhat
sudden.
We weren't expecting it.
We were expecting like there'sokay, this is going to be the
way of life for as long as she'sgonna, you know, uh, be alive,
(35:28):
because she was, she was healthy, so to speak, and she could and
she was actually getting better, um, with the dementia, with
the with the dementia but shewas, you know, more active.
Yeah, she was becoming forgetful, but she was, you know, more
active.
Yeah, she was becomingforgetful, but she was able to
walk, she was able to eat forfoods where, when she had the
stroke, she wasn't able toswallow or had to eat period
food.
So there was like improvementon one side.
(35:50):
But, you know, memory was goingthe other way and it was just,
uh, readjusting to who the newperson was yeah no, yeah, so
long term, you donterm, youdon't, you're, you're, but you
are preparing.
I mean, she's elderly, right?
So this isn't going to beforever.
Yeah, yeah, and it's going toend, and you do need to prepare
(36:11):
for the end, and, and you'reright, so when the end does come
, what does that look like?
Where were you at All of thatgood stuff?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Are a lot of people in need of therapy, or do they
have PTSD after all of thisstuff?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Absolutely, absolutely.
In major ways, some of thethings that we've already talked
about, but like when they dopass and you feel, wow, I could
have did.
One thing about caregivers isthat we emphasize that you, you
(36:55):
do the best you can with whatyou have and what you know, and
after the passing, and evenafter we call it, after our
assignments over.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
My co-host and I were .
You know, both of our lovedones have passed and but the
first thing afterwards is like,well, who am I now?
Who is Vaughn, who is no longerthe assignment of caregivers
done?
And, yes, I have.
You know, I have to start allover again, but now I'm starting
(37:32):
over with whatever I just wentthrough and it's a brand new,
fresh.
It's not clean, but it's abrand new, fresh, new, fresh.
You know, start and picking upthe pieces and I'm, oh, I'm no
longer um, my, my co-host, uh,christy, talks about her.
You know she does.
She's waking up in the middleof the night like I don't no
longer have to check on my son,who may die at any minute.
(37:55):
Is he breathing?
Um, the routines that we buildin caregiving of making sure
they haven't died yet, or makingsure that they're got their
prescription, or their breathingroutine, or whatever it is that
stops.
And so, yeah, there's.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And usually abruptly it stops.
So it's not like you can evenprepare for it, right?
It's just kind of abrupt yeah,you never know.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You don't know when that's going to be and when it
when it happens, and it's likebreak, stop there, but the
momentum of everything is still,still rolling in your mindset.
Now then you have to deal with,okay, preparing for, you know,
ceremony, burial, um, adjustingfriends, and you know, friends,
(38:42):
family or or lack of um, becausethat could be a whole lonely
thing too.
It was interesting that mymom's longtime friends, like
they, didn't make it to the orsay anything and it's like, wow,
my mom was.
So you know good to you good andand so you're dealing with all
(39:03):
all of that as well.
And but then now you'rerestarting and uh, yeah, it's a
you, you, you.
You have gone through a lot ofdifferent trauma, especially
with um, those that um weren'ttreated well, you know, they had
all of of this resentment andthings like that.
And then also how you weretreated during that journey, or
(39:24):
not treated.
And then the thanklessness ofit and you're questioning
yourself well, there's still theshame.
Did I do my best?
And I did, I actually justdoing it was my best.
And then the thanklessness of it.
You know other family, no oneunderstands or knows what all
that you've given and sacrificed.
(39:45):
And now you're starting on yourown.
So it's like, um, you know inyourself that it was worth it
and and hopefully you learn, yougrab the lessons from there and
use that to now for your life.
From here forward, you can helpothers go through what you went
(40:07):
through easier and things likethat.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofpost-assignment we call it just
things that you have to heal,reapply, grow from and hopefully
in a healthy way and not in anegative way, so that there's
(40:27):
not resentment and bitterness.
And yeah, there's a lot ofthings to forgive, forgiving
yourself.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
That's hard in general.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So you pile all of that onthere with and maybe other
people, family members sayingwell, you should have did this
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Blaming you when they didn't step up.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, yeah, blaming you.
Then they want to argue and bethe ones that want to control
the whole, now the wholedispersion.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
It's all done and they're like.
I want to be the executor ofthe will.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You like, I want to be the executor of the will.
You're like, what the heck likewait, you don't think?
Well, no, we all should have it.
Even.
And there is no considerationabout your contribution to
keeping your sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, I think that we , like you're saying the word
contribution, which is abeautiful word, and it is um,
and then there's also there is ahuge sacrifice that goes with
it, absolutely.
I can't imagine.
The first of all, I apologizefor my dogs in the background,
if you can hear them.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Oh, I can hear you.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I have a big golden retriever, okay, but I can't
imagine the mental hell that itwould be to take care of a child
knowing that the outcome isthey are going to die because we
lose children.
I, I think my world would end,um, and I then I also know it
(41:46):
won't, but you know what I mean.
But like it wouldn't, but likeit feels like it would.
But people with children,unfortunately, you know every
day.
But knowing that you're goingto, you're taking care of your
child every single day, thatknowing that you're going to,
you're taking care of your childevery single day, knowing that
they are not going to have afuture, they are not going to
get to go and live their life,knowing that you're preparing
(42:06):
for your child's death, it justmakes me so sad.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's sad and interesting.
It's sad and and it just makesit really gives a perspective on
moments and how precious ourmoments are and how precious
(42:29):
life is and how.
What does it say?
Don't sweat the small stuff.
You know, you, me and mybrother were like through this
experience when we were like wedon't care, we're going to be, I
don't care if my job finds me,I don't care.
You know, we were going to beby mom, 24, seven.
(42:58):
It's like we came up with theterm what matters matters.
We've we really learned thatwhat matters matters, that we
thought that mattered before.
And I think when you have um,um and uh, my co-host, christy,
could really speak to this.
Um, because her son didn't geta diagnosis for the first five
years of his life, like hewasn't supposed to live past
five years old and miraculouslyhe lived 30 years.
(43:18):
So every day he could have diedevery day for the next 25 years.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
So she appreciated her time with him.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
She appreciated her time with him.
It was also him adulting in thesyndrome.
It's a slower mindset growth,so even though he was 30, his
mindset was still probablyteenager.
And, interestingly, thesyndrome is in her grandkids.
So she has two grandkids withthe same syndrome and they're
(43:51):
teens now.
But she's learned about thesyndrome and helps with her
daughter.
But her grandkids areeverything to her and she knows,
like you said, she knows thepath, she knows the timeline.
So everything is precious.
It just gives a whole differentperspective.
And she knows, like you said,she knows the path, she knows,
like the timeline, that soeverything is precious.
(44:12):
It just gives a whole differentperspective of not only on,
yeah, your child and you knowthat they're going to pass, so
you maximize everything rightnow.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Right.
It's almost like other peopleget to take it for granted.
Like other people take it forgranted, right.
Like you look at people.
They talk to their kids andthey're like go play on your
iPad, like don't bother me.
Or they're in the same room andthe parents on their phone,
just staring at their phone andnot even acknowledging their
kids.
He was like can we go outsideand play?
Can we go outside and play?
Like I'm busy?
Or they imagine, if you know,your child has death in the
future and, by the way, none ofus know how long our children
(44:48):
are going to live right rightand so.
But the difference is she'saware that there is a limited
time where the average parenttakes for granted that there is
not a limited time, right?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
and I think that there's a limited time, that
there's not unlimited.
Yeah yeah, and we and we, wenever know, uh, it just I think,
I think that there's a limitedtime, that there's not unlimited
.
Yeah, hear, we can hear ofsomeone's situation and really
(45:25):
take self-inventory about howprecious time is.
Relationships is what it is,you know, there can be.
We may not be the onesexperiencing it, but we can hear
the stories and then it's like,man, I couldn't imagine.
It just really really helps usto reflect and and I think, to
really um realize how, um, howprecious and limited, you know,
(45:49):
because anything can happen atany time.
So it was a reminder, so thatwe're not taking advantage or
just missing out on precioustime, which we all tend to do,
you know, we just do it.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
So and do you carry that forward after their death?
And then now your relationships.
Do you feel like have morepresence in them because of your
caregiving with your mom?
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I think there's there's been an
absolute amplified level ofcompassion for other people's
stories and their journeys.
I think especially becausehearing the other stories and
knowing that even though mine,my mom and our relationship was
(46:37):
different, it really really,really gave a compassion for
others where it's like, no,that's not the case, and it gave
a sense of sensitivity that,whether it was wonderful,
(46:58):
blessed like mine, or horrid andhorrific like some of our
guests, the individual stillmaking the decision for that
journey and that sacrifice itrequires still the same support.
It's the same community, it'sthe same after your assignment's
(47:35):
done, there's a bond, there'sresources that need.
So it helped me really to inrelationships, to be very, very
sensitive to what other people'sstories are and that it's not.
My story is unique in its own,but others don't have that story
.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And that's real life, right.
And I think this is the partpeople forget.
We meet people all day long andwe just forget.
We forget everybody has theirstory and at that moment they
might be struggling and ifyou're just a jerk because they
didn't make your coffee the sametemperature that you want, you
could literally brighten theirday by saying I appreciate you.
Or you can ruin their day bybeing the jerk that they hear
(48:07):
all day long because the coffeeisn't exactly 100%.
My daughter was talking aboutthis.
She went in and picked up myice cream tea from Starbucks and
she was waiting and the ladyshe said that she's like gosh,
mom, people are so rude and I go, what happened?
And she said the lady that wasnext to her, um, like I guess
her coffee was like supposed tobe an iced coffee and it was hot
(48:29):
.
And then she turns to thebarista and she's like it says
it right on the label likereally rude.
And my daughter's like that,like poor barista, like we don't
know what her life is like.
We don't know if she goes homeand takes care of her mother or
if she goes home to you know,four children, or she goes home
and she's just has a depressionbecause she had a PTSD past.
(48:51):
Like we don't know anythingabout people and we just are
hard on people all of the time.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
We have no idea.
And if and and if, when we takea moment to even hear the tip
of the iceberg snippet ofsomething that they're going to,
there can be at least some kindof like wow.
(49:17):
I think it also it brings upwhether it's like super selfish
or not, Because normally thelike, what do they say?
The hurt people hurt people.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yes, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
And they're not really open because they really
don't care about.
I don't care about what yourlife is right now mine is not
coffee's cold or coffee hot andit's cold and I just care about
me, and uh, rather than yeah,like your daughter was saying,
like no, wow, they're rude andthat's where we're at.
(49:46):
But somehow or not but, andbecause of the journey that I am
listening to stories it's likeI can make a choice that each
day, if I can synergize, if Ican partner with, if I can go
alongside with, is somehowwhether it's my music, whether
(50:07):
it's some kind of advice,whether it's my smile, whether
it's my ear listen, something Ihave an opportunity to make
someone else's day better,somehow something.
It may not, but at least I havethe opportunity to, and they
get to choose.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Then what they do with it, but at least I have the
opportunity to, and they get tochoose, then, what they do with
it.
But at least if you're kind, domost people you interview come
out like you, in a way ofgratitude and seeing the world
in a way where they want to showup as a better human, or do
(50:43):
they come out worn out andbitter, or like the people, like
what?
What's the experience that youhave with?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
that.
That's a great question.
I think of all.
Yeah, I can't think of anyonethat came out of caregiving.
It's almost like you.
It's almost like you can't.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
That's an interesting thought.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
It's almost like you can't right, yeah, I think I
it's almost I have I'm trying tothink of if there's any way
that a caregiver, someone thatdecided to care for somebody
until the end, or even are in itright now, even the people that
share you know it was.
It was terrible, the wholejourney was just the whole.
(51:32):
I couldn't stand it, but I butI chose to be in it somehow,
some way, that experience andthat sacrifice and that gave an
appreciation and um, what's theword?
Uh?
And a compassion for for one,for other caregivers, like you
(51:52):
know, it's like no, I understandum, and, and they, and
immediately, caregivers want tocontribute to other caregivers
that are answering the callbecause they know, they know
well, we get it and um, and Ithink, I think I couldn't
(52:12):
imagine, I couldn't, I couldn'tsee you going through that, even
through whatever hell that youwent through, and the reason why
I say that is because of like,um, uh, kimberly and Kimberly
and Ellen, and there's someother, several other caregivers
that are like they wrote booksabout how how bad it was how bad
it was and even still, theywrote a book about it so that
(52:36):
they can share one.
That hey, yes, you can do thesacrifice and it wasn't all love
and hugs and I'm, you know, gotmy halo on and I'm good
Samaritan.
It wasn't all love and hugs andI'm, you know, got my halo on
and I'm good Samaritan, itwasn't.
It wasn't any of that, it was.
It was straight up warfare andbattle grounds and resentment
(52:56):
and I had to do a lot of healingand um, but yet I'm still glad
that I went through it.
It wouldn't be any other way.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
Makes me want to call my aunt and say thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh, you know what that that would be.
She might even break downbecause, because for someone to
get it and then and then say youknow what Wow, we hear that a
lot too.
Like other people were likewhen they they they've had
friends when they werecaregiving.
It's like, well, can't you just, you know, let your mom blah,
blah, blah.
It's like, no, you don'tunderstand.
(53:30):
And then, years later, whenthey became caregivers, they
called back and said you knowwhat?
I had no idea and how you weredoing all of that.
Um, now you know, thank you,yeah, she would, that would be.
That would be very, very, very,very touching.
I love thank you.
Yeah, she would.
That would be.
That would be very, very, very,very touching.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
I love that.
Thank you for enlightening usin that so that we can we can be
grateful to those that dosacrifice and and and do this
and step up to the plate and,you know, make this part of
their journey.
Um, I would love for people whothis touched to be able to
listen to everybody's stories,and maybe there are people who
(54:10):
really need the support and theyfeel alone.
So can you give us informationon how people can find your
podcast?
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, we made it real simple Caregivers Like Us and
the website is caregiverslikeus,so caregivers like us and it's
the podcast on any of theplatforms Spotify, apple and all
of that but if you go tocaregiverslikeus, we find
(54:41):
resources there and all of theepisodes you can push play there
.
And, yeah, we'd love to hearwe're always open for people to
share their stories, theirjourneys or services that they
offer.
Like can't wait to have you onto share about mental mental
health, because that's a real,that's a real thing that is
(55:03):
necessary.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Real tools, there's real tools.
Yeah, there's real tools.
Yeah, there's real tools.
The brain does change when yougo through these types of things
and you have to be able to findtools to help you.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
What's Bond's future?
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Ooh great.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Crystal ball?
No, crystal ball, just what's?
What is Bond one for himself.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
You know what I want and it's funny because the
workshop I was doing was aboutthat about.
You know what's immediately myword for the year is strategy.
And and I just had my birthday,so I am now 54 word years old.
That's my.
I'm 54 word this year.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Happy belated.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Thank you, and what I'm for me is more of being able
to impact, more of being ableto speak and share like this,
being able to impact, educateand support and help caregivers
ultimately, but also others.
(56:09):
Just in my music it's healing.
You know my instrumental music.
So more music into the souls touplift things like that, more
authors to help them get theirvoice out as the voice brand and
helping them to self-narrate.
But I want to contribute in awhat do you want to call it?
(56:35):
An exponential way.
That has been in the past.
So I'm looking forward tohealthy collaborative
relationships and being able tomake impact for what I was
designed for the way, what I wasdesigned to do and to be.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
And what is one way you've decided you can take care
of you?
This is not work related, thisis not family related dad roles,
all these different things butwhat is Vaughn going to do to
take care of Vaughn?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
Oh, that is.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
We just go out like we either go big, we go, how do
we take care of other people?
But do you notice that younever say how do I continue to
take care of myself?
Speaker 2 (57:18):
That is, that is that is good.
I am, I'm, I'm being selectiveon how I, how I share, uh, I'm
I'm gonna self-honor, love thatself-honor.
(57:41):
Um, I have up to now now lived alot where pleasing other people
not in a bad way, but pleasing,serving other people and I'm
going to self-honor and reallydo the things that Vaughn likes
to do.
I think this year whether Ibook it my dream is to.
(58:06):
I love castles.
I'm fascinated with castles andlighthouses.
So I was born in Germany and Ihaven't been back since.
So I want to go to Germany.
I want to go to the Porsche,which is the Volkswagen factory
there.
I want to drive the Autobahn, Iwant to visit castles and I
(58:27):
want to go down the Europeanriver cruises, from Prague down
to Danube.
And that's yeah, that's whatI'm looking forward to.
I mean, it may be going thisyear, or at least booking it
this year.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
From one person to another who also has big dreams
like you, I would say go, don'tbook it, go Also, I have a
contact at Porsche, so remind me, see if I can help you with
that.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
I mean if we can help each other make each other's
dreams come true.
That's what it's all about,right?
Speaker 2 (59:04):
Absolutely.
It's who knows you, not who youknow.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Who knows you?
Speaker 2 (59:11):
I love it.
Never heard of that.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Give us your podcast one more time, for everybody.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Caregivers Like Us.
So caregiverslikeus is thewebsite and you can look under
that name, and my co-host isCoach Christy.
And, yeah, come on and take apart and listen.
Thanks, thanks so much for thisopportunity.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, loved having you on and I hope that others do
find your podcast and that ithelps those it's meant to help.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
Absolutely Appreciate it.
Thanks, Barbie.
Welcome to the From Wounds to Wisdom podcast with
your host, Barbie Moreno, wherewe dive into people's past and
discover what wounds theyincurred and how they
transformed those wounds intowisdom to help themselves and
others.
Welcome to the Mental HealthPodcast.
(00:29):
This is your host, BarbieMoreno, and today I have Von Foy
.
He is a voice brander and hasbeen an audio engineer and
saxophonist for over threedecades.
He has a podcast calledCaregivers Like Us, and he was a
caregiver for his mom for sixyears, and that's actually what
we're going to talk about todaythe hidden truth to being a
caregiver and what it reallyinvolves.
Welcome, Vaughn.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Absolutely so you know, interesting to have a
podcast about being a caregiver.
Tell me why and how thathappened.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I mean why and how that happened.
The interesting thing myco-host Coach Christy.
She was a caregiver for her sonthat had a syndrome that wasn't
curable and she was actuallyreally.
We've been friends since highschool and she really helped me
out when my mom had her strokeand she was able to talk about
(01:29):
all the behind the scenes thingsthat I had no idea what to do
medically.
She was a respiratory therapistand she was able to give a lot
of advice, to be an advocate formom, to give power of attorneys
to.
This is what you say.
This is what you need to.
No-transcript.
(02:14):
We just pushed record andstarted sharing the stories of
what people need to know.
It's okay not to understandwhat's going on, or it's okay
that you don't have all theanswers, not to understand
what's going on, or it's okaythat you don't have all the
answers and we just continue toinvite people to talk about
(02:35):
their journey of answering thecall to caregiving, because you
don't know about it or you hearabout it, but unless you're a
caregiver, there's just somethings you just don't relate to
or that you need help with andyou won't ask for that help
until you become a caregiver.
So we want it to be a resourceand solution for those
caregivers that when they answerthe call.
So that's how it came aboutactually on my birthday and we
(02:59):
just started pushing record andcoming from there started
pushing record and coming fromthere.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So my my interest in the caregiving story because I
love talking about mental healthand obviously the podcast is
mental health is more of thewhat is it like to care for
somebody?
And I'm sure you've talked tolots of people and you probably
have your own experiences where,let's say, for instance, I'll
(03:28):
give my dad still alive.
I don't really talk to him, butif for some reason I had to
take care of him and he was nota nice human being, I could not
imagine I would be so resentfulhaving to take care of somebody
who was not a good parent to me.
Do you have that situation thatpeople come across or maybe you
guys have come across that Like, how does that work?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, we've have actually several episodes of
authors that have wrote theirbooks, Actually, and my mom's
favorite caregiver shout out toKimberly she gave that exact
story Like she would she would.
She gave that exact story likeshe would she would her mother
(04:10):
had allowed all of this abusephysical, sexual and emotional,
like horrid stories that throughher childhood into her teens
until she went on her own.
Then, when her mom was sick,she was the only one of her
siblings that and she chose totake care of her mom with all of
that and she went through awhole bunch of healing and she
(04:34):
would be great to be on yourpodcast.
But just that.
And there's several othersEllen, we just had her on the
show as well.
That same thing very controllingor abusive parents and then at
the end of their journey, theychose to take care of them and
(04:57):
they talk about the reality ofno, they totally tore my life up
and messed me up and we've hada total disrupted relationship
and now I'm caring for them andI have to deal with the
resentment.
(05:17):
I have to deal with all of thatstuff that's there in the midst
of taking care of you and maybeeven still, we're still acting
the same way, Right?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Because just because they get older and maybe they
have dementia or whatever thecase of me doesn't mean that
they change who they are Right.
So they were an asshole whenyou were a kid.
They're an asshole when you'rean adult and now you're like I
have to take care of thisasshole and it's like it sounds
bad and people might say likethat's mean, but it is what it
is right.
If they're not a nice personyet you still decide to take in
(05:50):
the role of being a caregiver.
Because I'm being honest withyou, if my dad needed a
caregiver, I would not step upto the plate.
If my mom needed a caregivershe was not the most amazing
person either I would step up tothe plate.
So I do think that we have likechoices that we make.
I mean, I would be veryresentful.
I'm gonna be honest, like it iswhat it is right.
I would be mad, I'd be angryand I would probably get annoyed
(06:12):
with her because I'm thinkingto myself I'm doing all of the
things you didn't do for me.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
That's real Right.
Yeah, it's real feelings.
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah, it's real feelings.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, there's real things and you're right People
what they had said when we hadthose guests.
They were like, well, how canyou know that's your mom?
It's like, yeah, exactly, yeah,it is my mom Right.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, and it's sometimes why we even allow
those people in our lives.
Anyways, if you, besides thefact that, like you know, if
you're going to be a caregiverto them, it feels like there's
people in family where we'relike, okay, they were not the
best person, but they're stillmy mom, so I'm going to allow
them into my life.
Maybe I'll put boundariesaround it.
That's my situation.
And then there's those peopleyou're like, yeah, it doesn't
really matter.
If you're like, you're just notallowed into my life, right,
(07:00):
but then you take on the roleagain.
It goes back to being acaregiver, which its role in and
of itself is a full time job, Iwould imagine.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Absolutely.
It's a life change.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
It's a life change.
Do you think it's differentthan having children?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
It is different than having children.
That's a great question,because I moved my family in and
I moved my son in to my mom'shouse.
Family in and I moved my son into my mom's house and but
having children, it's like, doyou?
You care for your child in away, because you're parenting
(07:39):
them.
In the case of for me, with myparent, you're making a choice.
What am I?
My grandfather used to alwaysjust say once a man, twice a
child.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And where now you're looking to someone who was your
hero, who you looked up to oryou know, or who did care for
you, and now you're, in turn,doing things for them that they
did for you.
So where it's natural like,well, no, this, no, this is my
child.
I'm it's like almost defaultwhere I'm going to take care of
(08:08):
them.
So it's different because ithas to be a choice and it's at
the same time, so it's both upand up and down, but, like they
say, the sandwich generation.
Now, for my co-host, it was herchild and she was caregiving.
So was it was one in the same,but she also had two older kids
as well.
So it was now, how am I caringfor this son?
(08:31):
But at the same time, this istaking away from my parenting,
so to speak, and so there was alot of dynamics in that.
But yeah, to answer yourquestion, it's, I think it's
different.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, well, it's different, like you were saying,
because, like, so, I think mychildren are the gift to the
world, right?
I mean, they literally walk onwater for me.
I know that they're not perfectin any way, shape or form, but
that my love for them isunconditional.
And in the same breath, I don'tknow that I could say the same
(09:05):
thing about a parent.
Right Now.
I hope that they say that aboutme.
Who knows?
Right, I'm sure that they'regoing to have their.
We all have our own issues withour parents, but yeah, I mean,
and then, like you said, yourco-host having to take care of a
child who is your baby, andthen you have other children and
I would imagine that there'sresentment from the other
(09:27):
children and we always feel likewe're failing people absolutely
.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I always feel like I'm not doing, I didn't do
enough, even to now.
And we talk about that even asadults, and even our loved ones
passed on um we share about yeah, we never felt like we did
enough, or or we didn't do itright, or I could have did this
better or I could have did allof those, the, the guilt and the
(09:54):
shame of you.
You answer a call, you you madea decision to care, but you
never feel like you're, younever feel like I'm doing this
exactly right, or you know it'slike, oh, I could have did this
better.
And it's daily, it could bemoment by moment, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I would imagine there's moments you walk away
and you're like oh, I could havehandled that better.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Absolutely All the time.
You're always learning.
There's always a.
You're always learning andyou're always forgiving yourself
, forgiving the other person,accepting that.
You know the situation is whatit is, cause sometimes you'll be
like man.
You'll sometimes you'll feellike I just want to quit.
I don't want to do this anymore.
(10:45):
I'm not, I'm not being.
You may not feel you knowthere's, there's not a lot of
appreciation, or the person thatyou're caring for may not be
able to say thank you.
You may never hear that in thewhole, however long that journey
is.
Fortunately, you know I wasable to um, but but there's
(11:07):
several, several, several thatnever had and um, you either had
to receive that from outside oraccept that you did what you
did, you gave what you gave andand and take it as that.
And you hear from other peoplelike, wow, I can't believe how
(11:27):
you did that.
Now you know I honor you howyou do that you know, but you
may not feel that way.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Right, it's like the thankless job.
So, you're alive or has shepassed?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
She passed, she passed.
I mean it's funny because todayis actually her birthday she
passed.
It's funny because today isactually her birthday, birthday,
mama, yeah, happy, happilybirthday.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And but she passed on .
March 29th will be two years,so two years ago.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So how was your relationship with her as a child
?
And then in that situationThankfully, my story for me and
my brother we, we were reallyclose with mom, like every day
was mother's day.
Uh, she was, um, you know, myparents were separated when
probably I was in what was that?
Junior high, and mom basicallyraised us and, but my mom was
(12:26):
very passive, timid, but wecalled her Mighty Mouths because
she was just very, you know,just very strong and consistent
and loyal in her own way and butas a child we knew that we were
loved.
Mom was always here.
She, you know, she raised usinto in church, for us and being
(12:51):
, you know, and I alwayssupported our music and
everything.
She was supportive in anythingand everything that we did.
So and actually she caregivedfor both her parents died here
at the house and her, her sisterand her brother.
She care gift for all four ofthem and and so.
So it was no question for us,it was no question of, like you
(13:15):
know, we're not putting her in afacility, we're going to keep
her at home and we're going todo whatever it takes.
We didn't have, you know, wedidn't even have finances for to
keep her at a facility andstuff and it was.
You know, we learned of thedifferent resources and things
to be able to take care of herat home.
So taking care of her was, itwas like almost a no-brainer.
(13:39):
That didn't say that it waswithout frustrations and things
like that or challenges, whichthere was, but, um, because I've
watched her be a caregiver forall of her family, it was
absolutely.
It was just default that we'regonna um, that's how she brought
us up, that's how her characterwas.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
so she was just returned on what she um, what
she planted all of the life, soon her um place and it was like
loving mom and caregiver, that'swhat we put on her on your
podcast uh, on your podcast,caregivers like us I would
imagine you hear like we weretalking about stories of mothers
that were people who were notnearly as blessed as you with a
(14:23):
mother like that, right, and sodoes that make you like look
back on your life with a feelingof gratitude?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Oh, absolutely, me and my brother were talking
about this.
We hear, you know, justdifferent stories.
You know we were kind ofsomeone in a bubble, raised in
the bubble and as we've traveledand grown and involved in
meeting with different people,just hearing different stories
that were so different from ourlives, and we're like I, some
(14:56):
things I was like I couldn't, Ijust couldn't imagine.
We couldn't imagine those kindof discussions in the house or
non-discussions, or those kindof discussions in the house or
non-discussions or um, and yes,hearing that I could definitely
empathize, I guess, if thatwould be the word with like I
don't know how you, how you didthat and you came back to serve,
(15:18):
right, you know, with thatthat's, it's just way over the
top, because I have no, yeah, wewere very blessed and we know
that.
We know that, like my mom was,even the caregivers was like, oh
, your mom has the dementia butyou know she's a sweetheart
compared to other clients thatwe work with.
(15:39):
You know they have theirdementia.
They're like Crazy, they don'tchange because they get dementia
.
Actually it magnifies whateveris in there and if they were
mean, it's just amplified ifthey were bossy, controlling and
and uh, the stories that Iheard of my mom's caregivers and
(16:00):
um and people that we have onon the show for different you
know, different, differentthings.
So, yeah, we were, yeah, wewere definitely blessed.
That's another reason why Iwanted to share the stories,
because I know that my story isvery rare, like super rare.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
To you know, like other parents, even my
upbringing and stuff is justdifferent.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
You have a lot of love for mom.
Where's dad?
It's just different.
You have a lot of love for mom.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Where's dad?
My dad is up in Spokane,washington.
I have a lot of respect for him.
It's interesting because, eventhough they split, he always
provided for us and my mom evento helping with the funeral
costs and stuff and he was there.
So our relationship had hasgrown and you know him and his
(16:51):
significant other.
Him and my mom split, like Isaid, very young, and so he was.
He was out of the home.
Mom raised us One book Iprobably will write.
Is called from eighth grader toout of the home.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Mom raised us One book I probably will write is
called From Eighth Grader to manof the House.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, because mom really relied on me, she was
very dependent and I really tookon that role, and in several
different ways.
But yeah, but that is up north.
We have a very closerelationship and respecting.
There's always, you know, justthings growing up and even
(17:37):
through relationship with myfamily, with my son and, as of
this podcast, kind of goingthrough a dissolving my marriage
and so some of the same thingsthat I, my dad, experienced.
It's like, oh wow, it'sinteresting how I want to make
sure things aren't happeningwith my son and making sure that
(18:00):
we're cool and things like that.
So Isn't it funny how life doesthat we're cool and things like
that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
So Isn't it funny, how life does that.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, very, very like wow, I would have never the
very thing that I never wantedto do.
And then it's, it's happeningand I was like, okay, well,
here's the lessons, and andmaking sure to keep the mindset
so that it's healthy, andhealthy first.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And that's when you can tell a healthy person,
because the fact that you sayhere's the lessons, I also view
life.
It's not for me.
It's okay.
Here's the lessons.
Like here's a learn.
Let's talk about the caregivingpart of it.
You said you started yourpodcast because you wanted
people to kind of get like anidea of the behind the scenes,
right?
So somebody with dementia who'snot an angel like your mom,
(18:51):
let's talk about what it's liketo be a caregiver.
That you've heard andexperiences and stuff like that.
What are the people who aretaking, who are there day to day
with these people, their familymembers?
What are they having toencounter that we really don't
know about?
That is really something thatwould be very difficult.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, a lot is the ongoing, daily and moment by
moment grieving that ishappening, because one you're
grieving.
You're grieving both the parentthat you never had, that you
wish you would have had, but itwas just terrible coming up, so
(19:29):
you're reliving or amplifyingthat grief.
Then you're also grieving thefact that they're dying and
you're caring for them, andthere's still the resentment, or
, if it hasn't, you know, oryou're caring for them and
there's still the resentment, or, if it hasn't, you know, or
you're still healing throughwhichever.
(19:49):
However, you're processing,making the decision to to serve.
In this way, you're grieving ata level and what's happening
live is that maybe that thethings that you were so
resentful for or that affected,or what's happening live is that
maybe that the things that youwere so resentful for, or that
affected or was negative, ishappening right now while you're
trying to extend care, and itis ultimately it's.
(20:14):
It's frustrating because notthat there isn't no other
options, but they have chosen tocare.
I'm going to choose to love andcare, even though it's not all
fluffy whatsoever battle zone,painful, hurtful, bringing up
(20:39):
things, reopening up wounds,making new wounds.
And what's so hard is thatthey've chose to still care and
keep dignity as much as possibleand to still honor, even though
(21:04):
honor isn't deserved, or maybeeven love, or or the support
isn't deserved.
They've chosen to do thatregardless of what didn't wasn't
reciprocal.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
What was not given to them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
What was not given to them or is not even reciprocal,
and knowing that it'll nevercome.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, I know my aunt.
So my aunt, my mom's side, tookcare of my grandma who had like
a ridiculous amount of strokesand like was bedridden for like
10 years and none of the otherkids stepped up there like 10
years and none of the other kidsstepped up.
There were six kids.
None of the other kids steppedup.
They would come visit when theyfelt like it, right, but my
aunt's life stopped for like 10years, like you know.
(21:49):
I mean she worked and stufflike that, but like literally
her she had.
She didn't get to go onvacations because who's going to
take care of mom, right?
Um, she had to always make suresomebody was there, like she
always, like I mean her.
It was like having a newbornchild, absolutely.
I mean she changed diapers sheabsolutely right so it's like
(22:12):
starting all over again, but thedifference is this person again
is not your child and alsothey're.
They're stuck in their ways.
My grandma was mean to her,like I.
I know my grandma.
My grandma was kind of like aquieter person, but I know she
was not saying the nicest stuffto her sometimes and the funny
thing is like nobody from myfamily, now that I think about
(22:33):
it, ever told my aunt, thank youyeah, yeah, it's the thing when
you said it earlier.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It is, it can be a very thankless, um, it's a.
It's a thankless from theoutside.
Uh, and and when you and we, we, when, like she's the one that
answered the call in there,there was other people and they
may have visited here or there,but they didn't contribute to
(23:02):
the care or it was very, veryminimal.
And you know, she was there forher mom, like 24, seven,
managing who's going to care,and stuff, like yeah, and it's
and it's.
And those that don't come inand contribute, they have no
idea.
They have an image like, ohwell, well, you know, all you
(23:23):
need to do is just be there, youknow, talk with her and put her
to sleep, and there's likethere's a whole nother world of
country.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, you know it's funny, like as we're talking I'm
thinking about, in fact Iremember some of the family
members saying now, mygrandmother didn't have like a
bunch of money or anything, butobviously she was getting like
Medicare or whatever mygrandfather had passed.
So there was some money there,not a ton.
But I remember some of thefamily members saying like, oh,
she's just doing it, so she getsthe money.
And I'm just thinking to myselfnow, like talking to you, like
(23:51):
what a shitty thing to say,right, it is because the money
is not that I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, right it is because the money is not that
I'm telling you like, yeah, yeah, you know, I, I, we got system.
My mom was on uh medicare andwe had medical and I was a um,
it's called home support, youknow services, and so I was a
paid caregiver from the state.
But it is, it does not.
It does it's a fraction of whatis needed and, yeah, it's a
(24:23):
fraction.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And do you hear people talk about that?
Is that something that peoplesay?
Like the family members are,like you know, they don't even,
they're not even grateful forthe work that they've done,
because they feel like there'san ulterior motive to it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, and in some like say, if some of the family
members like say they're youknow, let's just say their
parents, they did have money orthere was, you know, they had a
whole bunch of savings, or theyhad things and the person that's
caregiving that got the powerof attorney.
Now you hear stories aboutabuse as well, like they drained
all their accounts, they putthe house in their name and all
(24:59):
of this stuff.
That where it is about themoney and less about the care.
Well, I'm caring because I'mgoing to get this or deserve
this.
But in the cases where that is,that I think that is kind of the
what's the image or impression,I think, oh well, you're caring
Then somehow if you stop work.
(25:19):
Yeah, you're getting paid.
What you did on your business,you know I had to stop my
business or it was very, verylimited on what you know, my
business.
And thank God I'm anentrepreneur, because if I was a
regular employee I would.
I would be.
I would either be fired or Iwould be laid off or because of
the time six years.
(25:40):
But yeah, I think the image.
People think that oh, you'regetting, you're getting, you're
getting well paid, or you'redriving their car so you don't
have any car payments anymore.
You don't have.
You know, you're at the house,you don't have a mortgage
anymore, but you don't, you haveno idea.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, you have no idea it's like being a parent.
Yeah, you have no idea it'slike being a parent.
It really is right, like youkind of have to sacrifice a lot
in order to do it and do it well, right, I mean, you could
always just keep somebody in abed and not take care of them,
but if you're going to do it andyou call and you answer the
call, which is what you call itanswer the call, um, because I
would imagine that those peoplewho are like that, where they're
(26:15):
draining the savings, just likeanybody else I would imagine,
is few and far between.
It's not the majority, right,right, just like you know, in
anything you have good and youhave people who are not great,
but I would say majority of thepeople.
If they're going to step up tothe plate, they're doing it
because they are somebody whocares and loves and wants to be
(26:39):
there, even though it's hard andnobody appreciates you right.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, somehow, some way, there is something inside
that is overcoming all of thehurt, pain, resentment, and
knows that this is going to bethe best for this person that
we're caring for.
This is going to be the best forthem, and I will endure long
(27:03):
suffer put up with, but this isstill the best for you and I
feel that I am the one to beable to carry that through for
you, because maybe I am the onlyone, or maybe I'm part of a
team or something, but normallyit's like one person, it's like
and there's just a resolve thatI'm going to do this.
(27:25):
And this is where we, you know,we feel it's like it's the
ultimate sacrifice, because I'mgoing to lay down, okay, my
goals, my, my business, myfamily in a lot of cases, my, my
sons, my daughters, my other,my siblings, my wife it was very
(27:48):
, you know, for me it was verybringing, you know, my family
into my mom's house, caring forher yeah, put a major struggle
on them on the marriage, andthen she was caregiving, and for
her family as well.
So we had like dual caregiving.
So, yeah, but I was never notgoing to care for my mom.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
And so you sacrifice all that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Do a lot of people end up divorced who decide to be
caregivers?
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
You know what I don't I've heard, I haven't looked up
the statistics but yeahdefinitely.
Yeah, definitely puts a toll,especially if there's not a.
I don't know what thecaregiving itself brings about
the divorce.
But if there's in therelationship, if there's not an
understanding and a, there's allkinds of factors going in, like
(28:37):
because when it comes it's notlike it's planned, and if
there's not tools orcommunication ready to deal with
that can talk through or workthrough that new dynamic, then
yeah, it's definitely impactful.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Well, and I would imagine so, if you're somebody
who your parent was abusive yourspouse knows your parent was
abusive then you're bringingthis abusive parent even if it's
later, many, many years laterright Into your home, like your
spouse.
Wants is hurt when you're hurt.
If you have a good spouse, right?
Your spouse is hurt when you'rehurt and your spouse probably
(29:18):
doesn't want the person who hashurt you the most in your life
in their home 24 7, because theydon't.
I mean, I couldn't even imaginemy husband would probably be
like what are you like?
What are you doing?
Like this person did all ofthese things to you and now
they're in our home 24 seven andyou're giving up all of this
(29:40):
part of our life for them.
Like, like, that's just a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It is and that's.
I think that's where part, whereagain, it really challenges and
it brings like for the marriage, for like the one to be able to
take care of it.
It's either a supportive I'mgoing to go through with you
because there's an understandingof why you're making the
(30:05):
sacrifice, cause again you'reanswering the call and feeling
like, well, you know, and ofcourse you may discuss it.
Um, um, you know, my, my wifeand I had, we had discussed,
actually we were planning ongetting renting a home that was
big enough to have all of ourparents there, like we're just
going to have all the old peoplebe in one place so we can take
(30:25):
care of them.
And so there was going in withthe understanding.
But I think the dynamics change.
But if there's a conversation,if there's an understanding, and
it's like you know, at somepoint, or even right away, it's
like I just feel I have to dothis.
So either the spouse is youknow, will become supportive of
(30:47):
that, or learn to be Cause.
So it's also they answer thecall too, because they're part
of it and that's a whole.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's a whole different thing, because you
specifically said there was noway you weren't going to take
care of your mom, right?
So if your spouse and let'sjust again, let's take the
scenario away that you're adifferent person not a lot of
people have an amazing mother,right?
So let's your spouse you'relike there's no way I'm not
going to take care of my motherand your spouse is just like not
the person like you isn'tsomebody who would be called to
(31:17):
be a caregiver, which I imaginemajority of people, again, I
would say, are not called to becaregivers.
So even if one spouse is calledto be the caregiver, most
likely they're married tosomebody or in a relationship
with somebody who is not right.
We usually marry our opposite.
So so, yeah, I mean like itchanges that entire relation.
(31:39):
I can't imagine that it doesn'tput a even in a healthy
relationship.
I can't imagine it doesn't puta lot of strain on it.
You know what I mean Likefinancial strain, emotional
strain.
There's only so much time inthe day.
You have other people in thehousehold who need your
attention.
You feel like you're failingall of the time because you
can't get to everybody andeverybody else's needs.
You're not taking care of yourown needs.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
So you're probably exhausted, you're probably worn
down, you're probably becomingunhealthy.
Is this all true?
Yeah, yeah, it's a poll, and ifyou're not getting the support
or encouragement and it's like,oh well, now you're, now you're
failing in all areas, okay Well,oh man, my son, I'm neglecting
time with my son, son, I'mneglecting time with my son.
I'm neglecting time with mywife.
(32:23):
Um, I'm paying all attention tomy mom.
That's here and now they're offdoing other things.
I still have to bring uh, incomein.
I still, you know, there'sstill a whole life that was
before instantly adding on.
And so the, the person youwrite finances and stuff.
So, okay, well, what do weagree?
You know it has to be allrenegotiated.
(32:45):
Well, extra stuff that was here, and I mean she can't eat, she
needs to be fed, she can't beleft alone, she has to be 24
seven.
So we have to get someone tocome in.
That's a cost, that's anexpense, you, you know, for us
to go out to eat or have a dayat disneyland or something.
So, yeah, there's all kind offactors that immediately come in
(33:07):
and change, change life and um,and if you don't have, have or
use the tools to work throughthat and um, that's one of the
main reasons.
Another reason with the, withthe podcast, is like these are
tools that, when this comes up,you're if you know you may not
(33:29):
have readily answers or peopleto talk to, or even you can't
really research this quickly ongoogle um.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
You know what do you?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
do when you spouse and caregiving.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
You know right so and you're preparing for somebody's
death yeah yeah, I mean, that'sa whole.
That's exactly what's going onright, like, sadly, you are now
preparing for somebody's death.
So you're doing all of thiswork knowing that.
So like it's different whenyou're raising kids because
you're preparing for them to gointo the world right for their
leaving, right for them leavingthe nest and them excelling and
(34:01):
them finding their own life, andthere's beautiful joy of giving
them the tools to find thisbeautiful life right.
But this is the opposite you'repreparing for this person to go
and leave you and to die andthen to not ever to be able to,
for them to say like when yourkids leave.
And then they have a life andyou get to see the beauty that
comes from their life and theyhave children and you get to
(34:21):
meet your grandchildren and youget to go through all of these
different things.
There is a reward right, butthere's no reward at the end of
this.
There is a loss of somebody inyour life.
Whether you had a goodrelationship or a bad
relationship.
If you stepped up to be theircaregiver, you obviously love
them at some point in your life,and so you are preparing to
lose somebody that you loved.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, yeah.
You're preparing to lose them.
You don't know when.
It could be any day.
In a lot of situations it couldbe any day.
It can be.
Sometimes you wish it was todayand it's another 10 years
because it could be very longlong, yeah, long term, um, and
(35:04):
it could be like.
You know, I thought, mom, um,she didn't die from dementia,
she, it was a anothercomplication, actually, she had
a heart attack, and so it wassomething totally different from
what what the uh, the ailmentwas, and so it was somewhat
sudden.
We weren't expecting it.
We were expecting like there'sokay, this is going to be the
way of life for as long as she'sgonna, you know, uh, be alive,
(35:28):
because she was, she was healthy, so to speak, and she could and
she was actually getting better, um, with the dementia, with
the with the dementia but shewas, you know, more active.
Yeah, she was becoming forgetful, but she was, you know, more
active.
Yeah, she was becomingforgetful, but she was able to
walk, she was able to eat forfoods where, when she had the
stroke, she wasn't able toswallow or had to eat period
food.
So there was like improvementon one side.
(35:50):
But, you know, memory was goingthe other way and it was just,
uh, readjusting to who the newperson was yeah no, yeah, so
long term, you donterm, youdon't, you're, you're, but you
are preparing.
I mean, she's elderly, right?
So this isn't going to beforever.
Yeah, yeah, and it's going toend, and you do need to prepare
(36:11):
for the end, and, and you'reright, so when the end does come
, what does that look like?
Where were you at All of thatgood stuff?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Are a lot of people in need of therapy, or do they
have PTSD after all of thisstuff?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Absolutely, absolutely.
In major ways, some of thethings that we've already talked
about, but like when they dopass and you feel, wow, I could
have did.
One thing about caregivers isthat we emphasize that you, you
(36:55):
do the best you can with whatyou have and what you know, and
after the passing, and evenafter we call it, after our
assignments over.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
My co-host and I were .
You know, both of our lovedones have passed and but the
first thing afterwards is like,well, who am I now?
Who is Vaughn, who is no longerthe assignment of caregivers
done?
And, yes, I have.
You know, I have to start allover again, but now I'm starting
(37:32):
over with whatever I just wentthrough and it's a brand new,
fresh.
It's not clean, but it's abrand new, fresh, new, fresh.
You know, start and picking upthe pieces and I'm, oh, I'm no
longer um, my, my co-host, uh,christy, talks about her.
You know she does.
She's waking up in the middleof the night like I don't no
longer have to check on my son,who may die at any minute.
(37:55):
Is he breathing?
Um, the routines that we buildin caregiving of making sure
they haven't died yet, or makingsure that they're got their
prescription, or their breathingroutine, or whatever it is that
stops.
And so, yeah, there's.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And usually abruptly it stops.
So it's not like you can evenprepare for it, right?
It's just kind of abrupt yeah,you never know.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You don't know when that's going to be and when it
when it happens, and it's likebreak, stop there, but the
momentum of everything is still,still rolling in your mindset.
Now then you have to deal with,okay, preparing for, you know,
ceremony, burial, um, adjustingfriends, and you know, friends,
(38:42):
family or or lack of um, becausethat could be a whole lonely
thing too.
It was interesting that mymom's longtime friends, like
they, didn't make it to the orsay anything and it's like, wow,
my mom was.
So you know good to you good andand so you're dealing with all
(39:03):
all of that as well.
And but then now you'rerestarting and uh, yeah, it's a
you, you, you.
You have gone through a lot ofdifferent trauma, especially
with um, those that um weren'ttreated well, you know, they had
all of of this resentment andthings like that.
And then also how you weretreated during that journey, or
(39:24):
not treated.
And then the thanklessness ofit and you're questioning
yourself well, there's still theshame.
Did I do my best?
And I did, I actually justdoing it was my best.
And then the thanklessness of it.
You know other family, no oneunderstands or knows what all
that you've given and sacrificed.
(39:45):
And now you're starting on yourown.
So it's like, um, you know inyourself that it was worth it
and and hopefully you learn, yougrab the lessons from there and
use that to now for your life.
From here forward, you can helpothers go through what you went
(40:07):
through easier and things likethat.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofpost-assignment we call it just
things that you have to heal,reapply, grow from and hopefully
in a healthy way and not in anegative way, so that there's
(40:27):
not resentment and bitterness.
And yeah, there's a lot ofthings to forgive, forgiving
yourself.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
That's hard in general.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So you pile all of that onthere with and maybe other
people, family members sayingwell, you should have did this
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Blaming you when they didn't step up.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, yeah, blaming you.
Then they want to argue and bethe ones that want to control
the whole, now the wholedispersion.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
It's all done and they're like.
I want to be the executor ofthe will.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You like, I want to be the executor of the will.
You're like, what the heck likewait, you don't think?
Well, no, we all should have it.
Even.
And there is no considerationabout your contribution to
keeping your sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, I think that we , like you're saying the word
contribution, which is abeautiful word, and it is um,
and then there's also there is ahuge sacrifice that goes with
it, absolutely.
I can't imagine.
The first of all, I apologizefor my dogs in the background,
if you can hear them.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Oh, I can hear you.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I have a big golden retriever, okay, but I can't
imagine the mental hell that itwould be to take care of a child
knowing that the outcome isthey are going to die because we
lose children.
I, I think my world would end,um, and I then I also know it
(41:46):
won't, but you know what I mean.
But like it wouldn't, but likeit feels like it would.
But people with children,unfortunately, you know every
day.
But knowing that you're goingto, you're taking care of your
child every single day, thatknowing that you're going to,
you're taking care of your childevery single day, knowing that
they are not going to have afuture, they are not going to
get to go and live their life,knowing that you're preparing
(42:06):
for your child's death, it justmakes me so sad.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's sad and interesting.
It's sad and and it just makesit really gives a perspective on
moments and how precious ourmoments are and how precious
(42:29):
life is and how.
What does it say?
Don't sweat the small stuff.
You know, you, me and mybrother were like through this
experience when we were like wedon't care, we're going to be, I
don't care if my job finds me,I don't care.
You know, we were going to beby mom, 24, seven.
(42:58):
It's like we came up with theterm what matters matters.
We've we really learned thatwhat matters matters, that we
thought that mattered before.
And I think when you have um,um and uh, my co-host, christy,
could really speak to this.
Um, because her son didn't geta diagnosis for the first five
years of his life, like hewasn't supposed to live past
five years old and miraculouslyhe lived 30 years.
(43:18):
So every day he could have diedevery day for the next 25 years.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
So she appreciated her time with him.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
She appreciated her time with him.
It was also him adulting in thesyndrome.
It's a slower mindset growth,so even though he was 30, his
mindset was still probablyteenager.
And, interestingly, thesyndrome is in her grandkids.
So she has two grandkids withthe same syndrome and they're
(43:51):
teens now.
But she's learned about thesyndrome and helps with her
daughter.
But her grandkids areeverything to her and she knows,
like you said, she knows thepath, she knows the timeline.
So everything is precious.
It just gives a whole differentperspective.
And she knows, like you said,she knows the path, she knows,
like the timeline, that soeverything is precious.
(44:12):
It just gives a whole differentperspective of not only on,
yeah, your child and you knowthat they're going to pass, so
you maximize everything rightnow.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Right.
It's almost like other peopleget to take it for granted.
Like other people take it forgranted, right.
Like you look at people.
They talk to their kids andthey're like go play on your
iPad, like don't bother me.
Or they're in the same room andthe parents on their phone,
just staring at their phone andnot even acknowledging their
kids.
He was like can we go outsideand play?
Can we go outside and play?
Like I'm busy?
Or they imagine, if you know,your child has death in the
future and, by the way, none ofus know how long our children
(44:48):
are going to live right rightand so.
But the difference is she'saware that there is a limited
time where the average parenttakes for granted that there is
not a limited time, right?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
and I think that there's a limited time, that
there's not unlimited.
Yeah yeah, and we and we, wenever know, uh, it just I think,
I think that there's a limitedtime, that there's not unlimited
.
Yeah, hear, we can hear ofsomeone's situation and really
(45:25):
take self-inventory about howprecious time is.
Relationships is what it is,you know, there can be.
We may not be the onesexperiencing it, but we can hear
the stories and then it's like,man, I couldn't imagine.
It just really really helps usto reflect and and I think, to
really um realize how, um, howprecious and limited, you know,
(45:49):
because anything can happen atany time.
So it was a reminder, so thatwe're not taking advantage or
just missing out on precioustime, which we all tend to do,
you know, we just do it.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
So and do you carry that forward after their death?
And then now your relationships.
Do you feel like have morepresence in them because of your
caregiving with your mom?
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yeah, absolutely, I think there's there's been an
absolute amplified level ofcompassion for other people's
stories and their journeys.
I think especially becausehearing the other stories and
knowing that even though mine,my mom and our relationship was
(46:37):
different, it really really,really gave a compassion for
others where it's like, no,that's not the case, and it gave
a sense of sensitivity that,whether it was wonderful,
(46:58):
blessed like mine, or horrid andhorrific like some of our
guests, the individual stillmaking the decision for that
journey and that sacrifice itrequires still the same support.
It's the same community, it'sthe same after your assignment's
(47:35):
done, there's a bond, there'sresources that need.
So it helped me really to inrelationships, to be very, very
sensitive to what other people'sstories are and that it's not.
My story is unique in its own,but others don't have that story
.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And that's real life, right.
And I think this is the partpeople forget.
We meet people all day long andwe just forget.
We forget everybody has theirstory and at that moment they
might be struggling and ifyou're just a jerk because they
didn't make your coffee the sametemperature that you want, you
could literally brighten theirday by saying I appreciate you.
Or you can ruin their day bybeing the jerk that they hear
(48:07):
all day long because the coffeeisn't exactly 100%.
My daughter was talking aboutthis.
She went in and picked up myice cream tea from Starbucks and
she was waiting and the ladyshe said that she's like gosh,
mom, people are so rude and I go, what happened?
And she said the lady that wasnext to her, um, like I guess
her coffee was like supposed tobe an iced coffee and it was hot
(48:29):
.
And then she turns to thebarista and she's like it says
it right on the label likereally rude.
And my daughter's like that,like poor barista, like we don't
know what her life is like.
We don't know if she goes homeand takes care of her mother or
if she goes home to you know,four children, or she goes home
and she's just has a depressionbecause she had a PTSD past.
(48:51):
Like we don't know anythingabout people and we just are
hard on people all of the time.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
We have no idea.
And if and and if, when we takea moment to even hear the tip
of the iceberg snippet ofsomething that they're going to,
there can be at least some kindof like wow.
(49:17):
I think it also it brings upwhether it's like super selfish
or not, Because normally thelike, what do they say?
The hurt people hurt people.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yes, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
And they're not really open because they really
don't care about.
I don't care about what yourlife is right now mine is not
coffee's cold or coffee hot andit's cold and I just care about
me, and uh, rather than yeah,like your daughter was saying,
like no, wow, they're rude andthat's where we're at.
(49:46):
But somehow or not but, andbecause of the journey that I am
listening to stories it's likeI can make a choice that each
day, if I can synergize, if Ican partner with, if I can go
alongside with, is somehowwhether it's my music, whether
(50:07):
it's some kind of advice,whether it's my smile, whether
it's my ear listen, something Ihave an opportunity to make
someone else's day better,somehow something.
It may not, but at least I havethe opportunity to, and they
get to choose.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Then what they do with it, but at least I have the
opportunity to, and they get tochoose, then, what they do with
it.
But at least if you're kind, domost people you interview come
out like you, in a way ofgratitude and seeing the world
in a way where they want to showup as a better human, or do
(50:43):
they come out worn out andbitter, or like the people, like
what?
What's the experience that youhave with?
Speaker 2 (50:49):
that.
That's a great question.
I think of all.
Yeah, I can't think of anyonethat came out of caregiving.
It's almost like you.
It's almost like you can't.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
That's an interesting thought.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
It's almost like you can't right, yeah, I think I
it's almost I have I'm trying tothink of if there's any way
that a caregiver, someone thatdecided to care for somebody
until the end, or even are in itright now, even the people that
share you know it was.
It was terrible, the wholejourney was just the whole.
(51:32):
I couldn't stand it, but I butI chose to be in it somehow,
some way, that experience andthat sacrifice and that gave an
appreciation and um, what's theword?
Uh?
And a compassion for for one,for other caregivers, like you
(51:52):
know, it's like no, I understandum, and, and they, and
immediately, caregivers want tocontribute to other caregivers
that are answering the callbecause they know, they know
well, we get it and um, and Ithink, I think I couldn't
(52:12):
imagine, I couldn't, I couldn'tsee you going through that, even
through whatever hell that youwent through, and the reason why
I say that is because of like,um, uh, kimberly and Kimberly
and Ellen, and there's someother, several other caregivers
that are like they wrote booksabout how how bad it was how bad
it was and even still, theywrote a book about it so that
(52:36):
they can share one.
That hey, yes, you can do thesacrifice and it wasn't all love
and hugs and I'm, you know, gotmy halo on and I'm good
Samaritan.
It wasn't all love and hugs andI'm, you know, got my halo on
and I'm good Samaritan, itwasn't.
It wasn't any of that, it was.
It was straight up warfare andbattle grounds and resentment
(52:56):
and I had to do a lot of healingand um, but yet I'm still glad
that I went through it.
It wouldn't be any other way.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
Makes me want to call my aunt and say thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh, you know what that that would be.
She might even break downbecause, because for someone to
get it and then and then say youknow what Wow, we hear that a
lot too.
Like other people were likewhen they they they've had
friends when they werecaregiving.
It's like, well, can't you just, you know, let your mom blah,
blah, blah.
It's like, no, you don'tunderstand.
(53:30):
And then, years later, whenthey became caregivers, they
called back and said you knowwhat?
I had no idea and how you weredoing all of that.
Um, now you know, thank you,yeah, she would, that would be.
That would be very, very, very,very touching.
I love thank you.
Yeah, she would.
That would be.
That would be very, very, very,very touching.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
I love that.
Thank you for enlightening usin that so that we can we can be
grateful to those that dosacrifice and and and do this
and step up to the plate and,you know, make this part of
their journey.
Um, I would love for people whothis touched to be able to
listen to everybody's stories,and maybe there are people who
(54:10):
really need the support and theyfeel alone.
So can you give us informationon how people can find your
podcast?
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, we made it real simple Caregivers Like Us and
the website is caregiverslikeus,so caregivers like us and it's
the podcast on any of theplatforms Spotify, apple and all
of that but if you go tocaregiverslikeus, we find
(54:41):
resources there and all of theepisodes you can push play there
.
And, yeah, we'd love to hearwe're always open for people to
share their stories, theirjourneys or services that they
offer.
Like can't wait to have you onto share about mental mental
health, because that's a real,that's a real thing that is
(55:03):
necessary.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Real tools, there's real tools.
Yeah, there's real tools.
Yeah, there's real tools.
The brain does change when yougo through these types of things
and you have to be able to findtools to help you.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
What's Bond's future?
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Ooh great.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Crystal ball?
No, crystal ball, just what's?
What is Bond one for himself.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
You know what I want and it's funny because the
workshop I was doing was aboutthat about.
You know what's immediately myword for the year is strategy.
And and I just had my birthday,so I am now 54 word years old.
That's my.
I'm 54 word this year.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Happy belated.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Thank you, and what I'm for me is more of being able
to impact, more of being ableto speak and share like this,
being able to impact, educateand support and help caregivers
ultimately, but also others.
(56:09):
Just in my music it's healing.
You know my instrumental music.
So more music into the souls touplift things like that, more
authors to help them get theirvoice out as the voice brand and
helping them to self-narrate.
But I want to contribute in awhat do you want to call it?
(56:35):
An exponential way.
That has been in the past.
So I'm looking forward tohealthy collaborative
relationships and being able tomake impact for what I was
designed for the way, what I wasdesigned to do and to be.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
And what is one way you've decided you can take care
of you?
This is not work related, thisis not family related dad roles,
all these different things butwhat is Vaughn going to do to
take care of Vaughn?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
Oh, that is.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
We just go out like we either go big, we go, how do
we take care of other people?
But do you notice that younever say how do I continue to
take care of myself?
Speaker 2 (57:18):
That is, that is that is good.
I am, I'm, I'm being selectiveon how I, how I share, uh, I'm
I'm gonna self-honor, love thatself-honor.
(57:41):
Um, I have up to now now lived alot where pleasing other people
not in a bad way, but pleasing,serving other people and I'm
going to self-honor and reallydo the things that Vaughn likes
to do.
I think this year whether Ibook it my dream is to.
(58:06):
I love castles.
I'm fascinated with castles andlighthouses.
So I was born in Germany and Ihaven't been back since.
So I want to go to Germany.
I want to go to the Porsche,which is the Volkswagen factory
there.
I want to drive the Autobahn, Iwant to visit castles and I
(58:27):
want to go down the Europeanriver cruises, from Prague down
to Danube.
And that's yeah, that's whatI'm looking forward to.
I mean, it may be going thisyear, or at least booking it
this year.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
From one person to another who also has big dreams
like you, I would say go, don'tbook it, go Also, I have a
contact at Porsche, so remind me, see if I can help you with
that.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
I mean if we can help each other make each other's
dreams come true.
That's what it's all about,right?
Speaker 2 (59:04):
Absolutely.
It's who knows you, not who youknow.
That's what I think.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Who knows you?
Speaker 2 (59:11):
I love it.
Never heard of that.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Give us your podcast one more time, for everybody.
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Caregivers Like Us.
So caregiverslikeus is thewebsite and you can look under
that name, and my co-host isCoach Christy.
And, yeah, come on and take apart and listen.
Thanks, thanks so much for thisopportunity.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, loved having you on and I hope that others do
find your podcast and that ithelps those it's meant to help.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
Absolutely Appreciate it.
Thanks, Barbie.
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