FWTW S3E07 | Why Stress Isn’t the Enemy—It’s the Side Effect of Your Brilliance: Dr Gary Sprouse - From Wounds to Wisdom (Previously the Mental-Hell Podcast)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:01):
Today I'm joined by Dr.
Gary Strauss, the less stresseddoc, to reveal how your deepest
strengths might be causing youroverwhelm and how to reclaim
your peace without losing youredge.
Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
The majority of human side stresses are really
side effects to our skills.
To live in all three tenses oftheir life, past, present, and
future, and be happy in allthree.
And the key is justunderstanding that the reasons
that we don't like being in thefuture in the past is because of
the side effects.
It's the worry, it's the guilt,it's the regret.
Fifth problem, which is you'reoverwhelmed.

(00:40):
I don't care which one of thefive it is, we just get rid of
one and you'll be back down tothree because the overwhelmed
will go away.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
I'm excited to be here.
I like sharing my messagebecause I wanted people to have
live in their happy place and beless stressed.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12):
And you have a couple books that you've
written.
One thing I found interestingthat you say is there is a side
effect to things.
So talk to me about this wholeside effect thing.
Explain this to me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Well, so I'm a primary care physician before I
retired, and I was used towriting prescriptions for
patients.
Say, here's medicine for yourblood pressure, and it'll work
great, but it might have acouple side effects, might make
you dizzy, whatever.
But we're going to minimize theside effects and maximize the
benefit of the medicine.
Well, when I turned that on toour brain, I was like, wait,
wait, wait, wait.
The majority of human sidestresses are really side effects

(01:45):
to our skills.
So, as humans, we have thisability to envision the future,
which is phenomenal.
Like we can look a week ahead, ayear ahead, we can look to when
we're 65 and get to retire,right?
We have all these abilities, butthen the side effect is you have
to worry about it.
So I was telling you that myone-year-old grandson, he
doesn't worry because he doesn'thave the skill of envisioning

(02:07):
the future.
So he doesn't sit at hisbreakfast table eating his
banana, going, Hey, mom, dad,how are we going to pay for
college?
Because he doesn't have thatskill.
He doesn't it doesn't come up.
So he does what psychologistsare telling us to do, which is
live for today.
That's what he does.
But what you find is that's areally cool skill that we have.
And to give it up just becauseit has a side effect doesn't

(02:30):
make sense.
So what the book was about washow to keep the skill and lose
the side effect.

SPEAKER_04 (02:35):
So here's the thing about when you say that.
So love that your grandsonobviously is in the present
moment.
Um, I know that there's a lot ofteachers that say that we should
be doing this, and also we don'treally live in a world that
would allow us, and I know thatthat's one skill that we're
talking about.
We'll go into other things, butwe don't really live in a world
that would allow us not toprepare for the future, right?

SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
Yeah.
That is correct.
That's exactly you could it'sliterally impossible to be a
human being and not have thefuture because we spend way too
much time in the future.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (03:05):
No, I was gonna say that's one thing that drives me
insane about people like EckhartTolle and those people, because
they talk simply about being inthe presence moment, which I
agree that we should be in attimes when we have as much as we
can, but they don't take intoconsideration the survival
mechanisms of the brain and howthat functions so that we have
to be able to plan for thefuture as well.

SPEAKER_01 (03:24):
Absolutely.
I one of the things that I talkabout is I want people to be
able to live in all three tensesof their life, past, present,
and future, and be happy in allthree.
And the key is justunderstanding that the reasons
that we don't like being in thefuture in the past is because of
the side effects.
It's the worry, it's the guilt,it's the regret.
There's ways to have less ofthat, and that's what my book's

(03:46):
about.

SPEAKER_04 (03:47):
So give us some ideas of how can we have less.
I can understand about havingless guilt about the past,
because that I mean, you gothrough the process of
understanding you made the bestchoices that you could make and
da-da-da-da, and all that stuff.
How do we not have the worryabout the future?

SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
Here's the first question that I ask people.
So I've had patients come to meand say, Dr.
Sprouse, I worry that I worrytoo much.
I'm like, well, then youprobably do, right?
I know that, yeah.
And so what I said to thatperson, I was like, Well, tell
me what worry is.
But when she started trying todefine it, it got sticky.
It was not so easy to define.
Most people sort of strugglewith trying to define it in

(04:23):
concrete terms.
Even if you have some kind ofusable definition, it's not a
fixable definition.
So I had to come up with adefinition that you could do
something about.
So the definition that I use isokay, we're using this human
skill that's amazing that allowsus to envision the future.
Yay.
Okay.
Second is then we focus on allthe bad things that can happen.

(04:43):
One of the books that I had readcalls it what ifing.
So it's like, well, what if thishappens?
And then the key to worry isthat then, based on that what
if, you're now having aphysiological reaction, you're
having a fear response.
And it can be from a mildanxiety all the way up to a full
panic attack.
But the key is that it's only toa thought.
It's a concept, it's not areality.

(05:03):
So that makes it difficult forhumans.
So I look at my dog, and when abig dog runs into the
neighborhood, into our yard, shesmells it or hears it, and she's
like and she's all jazzed up andready to fight.
But as soon as that dog leavesher senses, she goes back to
being a rug.
But I can go, oh, what if I wasoutside?
What if I have my one-year-oldgrandson with me?

(05:24):
Right.
So I can what if?
And there's nothing to make thatstop.
For my dog, the fear reactiongoes away when this sensory
system changes.
For me, I can just think of bigdog in my yard and ah, right.
And so there's nothing to makethat stop.
So we have to find ways toworry.
So, what I tell people is Idon't want you to stop worrying
completely, but I do want you toworry efficiently.

(05:45):
So there's two tools that I talkabout that are the easy ones.
There's other tools, but thoseare the two main ones that I
talk about.
So humans also have the abilityto have choice.
So we have a tendency, there'sactually a built-in tendency to
look for the negative things.
It's one of the ways we casestay safe.
So if I had 10 people in thisroom that were trying to give me
$100, but there was one guy inthe corner with a machine gun,

(06:06):
I'm going to pay attention tothe guy with a machine gun
because if I don't pick him up,the hunt, the thousand dollars
that I get isn't going to do meany good.
So there's a tendency to lookfor negative stuff.
But we have a choice.
So we don't have to focus on thenegative things.
We can focus on the positivethings.
So I was just doing a talkyesterday for some high
schoolers, and I was like, don'tfocus on I'm going to fail the

(06:29):
test.
Focus on I'm going to pass thetest.
Right?
Because that makes you feelbetter.
Because when you focus on I'mgoing to fail the test, it sets
off a fear reaction, which makesyou actually not be able to
think as much.
When a lot of people have testtaking anxiety, it's because
they're focused on failing andthere's literally their fear
gets turned on.
And I was reading this in onebook, and it said, when our fear

(06:52):
system gets turned on, itliterally shuts off our thinking
part of our brain.
And you need that to take atest, right?
So if you focus on passing thetest, you're going to feel much
more relaxed, a lot less fear,and you're going to be more
confident and you'll do betteron the test.
But here's the key you have tobe realistic.
You can't just go into the testand go, oh, I'm just going to
pass the test and like I justam, right?

(07:13):
I'm really smart.
No, you have to prepare and getready.
So that's the realism part.
So as an author, I chose not tofocus on, hey, I might not be a
successful author.
I chose I'm going to be asuccessful author.
But I realized that most authorsdon't make a living out of their
books.
So I had to keep being a doctoruntil I retired.
And then I could focus all myenergy on that book.

(07:35):
And that's what I've been doing.
And so realistic optimismbecomes a way to have fun in
your life and then get lookforward to things.
But the realism part leads tothe second tool that I talk
about.
And that's called a worryorganizer.
The first thing I find is thatby writing something down, it
already makes it better.

(07:56):
It makes you focus on whatyou're writing, but it also
frees up your mind because whatmost people are doing is half
their brain is trying toremember what they're supposed
to worry about.
So if it's written down, thenall of your brain can be used to
solve the issues in front ofyou, right?
And by writing it down, itbecomes permanent.
So I don't have to go over andover and over and over again.

(08:16):
If I don't have anything new toadd to that, we're just gonna
leave it go.

SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
I do that.
Funny thing is I don't even lookat it most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Yeah, well, that's okay, but as long as it's there,
you're not worried about it,right?
You don't go, oh, I forgot.

SPEAKER_04 (08:31):
So I know that you co-wrote uh did an anthropology
with um Jack Canfield, which alot of the stuff that he teaches
in his books sound very similarto yours, except for he does
teach that instead of writingdown the stuff that's in your
head, you write down the thingsthat you want, almost like a
manifestation tool.
How do you differ in theapproaches that you have to

(08:51):
somebody like him who has beenhas all of these books out there
and has been teaching this kindof stuff?

SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Yeah, well, he actually read my book, Highway
to Your Happy Place, Roadmap toLess Stress.
And he said in this and gave mea quote, which was like, This
has game-changing ideas.
This is a must read.
So even he who had read orobviously written, you sold 500
million books, he got somethingout of this book that was
different.
And I think the difference isour tools got so much better.

(09:16):
So, what I think my book, how itdiffers from every other book
that's out there is it says,Hey, the cause of our stress is
these side effects.
So we need to know what theskills are, what the side
effects are, and then the toolsthat we fashion will fix the
problem way more efficiently.
Because most books that are outthere on how to handle stress
say things like, here's the tophundred stresses, losing your

(09:38):
spouse, losing your job, right?
Getting a medical illness.
But then their prescriptions aregeneric.
They go, okay, we'll do yoga orgo to church or you know, pray
or whatever.
And it's like, it's not thatthey don't work, it's that
they're very generic.
It's like talent diabetic, we'lleat less sugar.
But if I, you know, with thethings that I'm talking about,
they're way more specific and Ithink are way more efficient.

(10:01):
So Dr.
Jack Canfield talks more abouthow to have success.
I'm I'm coming from a differentangle.
I'm going, you can besuccessful, but you have to have
less stress to get there becausethere's a lot of stress in life.
And I think, unfortunately, in alot of ways, it's getting worse.

SPEAKER_04 (10:17):
Right.
It's getting significantlyworse, in my opinion.
And that stress, because it isin our minds all of the times
and stuff, is holding us backfrom doing the things that we
could be doing.
Is that the thought?

SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
Yeah, wow.
So one of the things, one of thethings that I think has made our
stresses worse is that socialmedia in that.
Okay.
And I so social media is thisamazing tool that we have,
right?
It's incredible, it hasincredible power.
But again, it has side effects.
Yeah, it has this incrediblepower to galvanize people, to,

(10:50):
to organize people, to get ideasout there.
But what it's what's one of theside effects is it also gives us
these never-ending pictures ofbad things that can happen.
So it used to be that I had tothink up something bad to worry
about it, but now anybody in theworld can think up something and

(11:12):
then show it on my phone or onmy TV.
Right.
I'm like, oh my God, I didn'teven think about that.
But then what happens is we havemore and more and more
information that we can then usein our negative outcomes and
then focus on that.
And that's what gets us intotrouble.
And so social media is still inits infancy.
And I think somewhere along theline, we're gonna figure out how

(11:33):
to balance the benefits ofsocial media and reduce some of
the side effects of it.
Well, one of the ways we can doit now is just limit how much
time you spend on social media.

SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
So, like my stepdad, he watches news 24-7.
I'm like, stop it.
Yeah, it does stuff to you.
Like, that's not good, right?
You're watching people burn upand planes crash and governments
fall and wars, and like it doesstuff to you.
I came up with this term theother day and I call it stress
blindness.
See this with the cat lady whohas 50 cats who can't smell how

(12:06):
bad the smell house smells,right?
Because she's gotten so used towe call nose blindness, right?
What I realized is people havestress blindness, they don't
realize how stressed that theyare because it just became part
of their background, right?
So, one of the things that Ilearned when I was in school, I
was driving to Washington, DC.
That's where I went to school.
And on a night, it would take me15 minutes to get there.

(12:27):
In the daytime with traffic, itwould take an hour.
And if there was rain or anaccident, it took two hours.
And I didn't realize howphysiologically stressed out
that made people, including me,right?
Until I moved and now I live ona more rural area.
So when I drive back into thecity and I end up in a little
bit of traffic, I'm like, oh,right.

(12:48):
I don't like it, right?
But I didn't even realize I'msure my body was doing that.
I just didn't even realizebecause it was just part of the
background.
We're so used to it that wedon't even see it.
And I think TV does that whenit's running 24-7.
We don't even realize thatseeing somebody get blown up on
TV actually affects us inside.

SPEAKER_04 (13:04):
Yeah, and I feel like the children nowadays,
because there's so much likeviolence in video games, TV,
there's a lot more sexual umact, you know, stuff on TV, and
they become uh this isnormalized to them.
And so, you know, like if youwatch movies, they're just like,
I don't I remember the dayswhere there was like they didn't

(13:25):
show the outcome of like agunshot like they do now, right?
Like an outcome of a gunshotnow, like there's brains all
over the place.
Like half the time I can't watchit because I'm like, this is
disgusting.
But they're used to seeing thisyounger generation, and it's
getting worse and worse.
So they're becoming desensitizedto these types of things, which
normally they're like you said,they're in the background.
The mind's going, like, what canI do?

(13:45):
Now I'm in trouble aboutstressing out the mind in the
background, but they don'trealize that they're what's
going on.

SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Well, I agree that I think what you're saying is
accurate, but there is a side tothat, which is it gives people a
avenue to take out theiraggressions that don't have to
take it out on a person, likethey can take it out on their
game or watch the movie and gettheir aggressions out that way.
So there is a little bit ofbenefit to it, but I'm not sure
the benefit is worth all theother stuff that you just talked

(14:14):
about.

SPEAKER_04 (14:15):
I have a question on that then, because like I have
an 11-year-old son, and for thelongest time I was opposed to
him playing any game that hadviolence in it, right?
He was allowed to play, like,you know, Minecraft, but
couldn't use guns and thesekinds of things.
And then you have these kidsnow, they're playing um, you
know, uh games that haveshooting and all these different
things.
And I would get such a hard timefrom his friend's parents saying

(14:38):
that, you know, I'm isolatinghim too much, all of these kids
play all of these games, andthen they would tell him the
same thing.
And so he's coming home saying,My friends are all playing this,
and I'm like the bad mom, andall these things.
And so, what is your take on,with all of your knowledge about
this?
The uh they're like, Okay, theycan play, but maybe they can
play an hour a week.
I mean, what was your take onthat?
Just curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
So, do you have daughters?

SPEAKER_04 (14:59):
I have a daughter too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Okay, does she do the same thing?
No, she's not interested in thatat all.
So I had some friends that hadtwo sons, right?
And they made the kind ofdecision you made.
This was before video games.
So they were like, You can'thave any toy guns, you can't
have this, you can't that.
And then they woke up one dayand their kids were shooting
each other with a chair leg, andyou're like, Oh, find any way,
yeah, exactly, right?

(15:22):
So they're gonna find a way toget out that aggression.
There's a book that I'd read isthat humans play is for us to
learn our skills as to beadults.
I think that play is their wayof learning the skills that it's
gonna take to be an adult in aworld that doesn't exist
anymore, right?
I mean, we don't we're not youknow tribes anymore, but it's

(15:44):
like, but it's the same idea andit's that skill set.
So I would say to you, don't Imean, you what's happening is
your kids are getting ostracizedbecause they're not playing the
game with everybody else.
And so I don't think it's worthall that, but I would definitely
put some kind of limits on itfor two reasons.
One, because you don't need allthat violence, but two, so many

(16:05):
kids have, and you know, we usethe word addiction, but I I have
a whole different term for that.
I call stress reducer loop, butthe idea is that they're playing
too much, so that it's likecausing troubles in their life,
they're not studying, they'renot sleeping, they're not eating
right because they're so busyplaying a game.
So limiting how much time theyhave, using it as a reward,
yeah, that might be a better wayto go.

SPEAKER_04 (16:28):
Yeah, like that game in and of itself, we limit to an
hour a week, and then he'slimited on the other stuff, but
that in particular game, so atleast he gets to play it right.
And so, I mean, I know thatthat's kind of outside of the
conversation stuff, but I thinkthat these are real world things
that people are you know goingthrough, and and and your um
amount of information andknowledge that you have is

(16:48):
important for us to you knowkind of to ask these things.

SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Yeah, well, I think by giving him a limit, because
if you just say no, you can't doit, he's gonna find a way to do
it.
Right, he's like you can go to afriend's house, right?
Then it's because then he endsup good, he's gonna lie to you
or he's gonna do something elsethat you really don't want.
So rather than saying you can'tdo it, I would just put limits
on it.
Yeah, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_04 (17:08):
So what other real world like situations that,
like, you know, obviously stressis a real world thing, but the
day-to-day things that weencounter in our life that you
feel like your um thoughtprocess method and all of that
that you talk about would beapplicable towards, um, that
would be like a daily thing thatwe all go through.

SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Well, so one of the things that I see is a lot of
the patients that would come tome, they were coming for high
blood pressure and diabetes, butreally what was coming happening
was they were feelingoverwhelmed.
They were feeling like they hadtoo much stuff going on and they
didn't know how to cope with it.
And what I see is when peopleare overwhelmed, like you have
one or two or three problems,but then that fourth one comes
along and you go from okay, Ican handle this to, oh my god,

(17:48):
what am I gonna do?
Right.
Right.
And so when they feeloverwhelmed, all kinds of things
happen.
As a medical doctor, we gottrained that when people come to
you and they go, Hey, I can'tsleep, or I sleep too much, or I
can't eat, or I eat too much,and I just don't feel like
living in life.
And we would call that and labelit depression.
And then we were taught, okay,depression is a chemical
imbalance in your brain.

(18:08):
So the way to fix that is togive you another chemical to fix
that balance, and then you'll bebetter.
Right.
And what I found in my practicewas two things.
One, I would give people themedicine and they wouldn't get
that much.
They'd get a little better, butnot a lot better, right?
So, what I found was when Ifound these patients and they
depressed, what I said, no, no,no, no, you're not depressed,
you're overwhelmed.
You just have too much stuffgoing on.

(18:29):
And what I show them is thiscurve where I said three
problems, you're okay.
The fourth problem, whoop, nowyou're in trouble.
And then the fourth problemcreates a fifth problem, which
is you're overwhelmed.
So, what I say to them is it'snot as bad as you think because
it seems when you'reoverwhelmed, you're like,
there's no answer.
I don't know what I'm supposedto do.
How am I gonna fix this?
What I show them is like, hey,you know what?
We only need to get rid of oneproblem.

(18:50):
I don't care which one of thefive it is, we just get rid of
one and you'll be back down tothree because the overwhelmed
will go away and you'll be backto feeling in control.
So it's not that bad.
It's not a lifelong chemicalimbalance that you have to take
a medicine forever.
We just have to get it runningon these problems.
And I give them tools on how todo that.
So, by what I find is whenpeople get overwhelmed, they so

(19:13):
overwhelmed they don't even knowwhat to do.
A lot of people just tend towithdraw.
People have this tendency, andI'm not sure why we do this, but
we lump and we go, Oh, I gotthis problem and this problem,
oh yeah, and I forgot, yeah.
Let me throw that one on top,and then I got this little thing
through, and they get this bigmass of crap, and they're like,
that gets overwhelming.
And they're like, What do I do?
Ah, right, because they got thisbig mass.

(19:33):
So, my answer to lumping iscompartmentalization.
So the more separate we keepthese individual problems, then
the less overwhelming theybecome.
So, what I give them is thisvisual of shoeboxes.
So, if I walked into my bedroomand there was a hundred shoe
boxes, and the bottom was here,and the top was there, and the
left shoe was there, and theright was there, and there's a
hundred, right?

(19:54):
You're just clocking, going, Ohmy god, what am I supposed to do
with this?
Right.
But if I walk into that room andthe box is there and the shoes
are inside and the lid's on andthey're all stacked up in the
closet, it's the same amount ofshoe boxes.
But when I walk in, I'm notoverwhelmed now.
And if I take one shoe box down,look at it, and fiddle with it,
put it back up, take another,yeah, that's not so

(20:14):
overwhelming.
Still a lot of problems, butit's not overwhelming.
So when I hear people lumping, Igo, shoe box, right?
And that triggers them to go, ohyeah, keep them separate.

SPEAKER_04 (20:23):
Like when you say that, what comes to my mind is
like laundry, okay?
We wash all this laundry, nobodylikes to fold it.
So you just like pile it, pileit, pile it, and then you look
at it, you're like, oh my gosh.
And then it's like an eye sore,right?
And so you're just like avoidingit.
I'm gonna go on social media,I'm gonna go do this, I'm just
gonna ignore this laundry, likeit's gonna go away.
But what we figured out is likeif we take the laundry out and

(20:45):
then we put it in the piles,like on whose is what, then it's
not as hard because it's like,okay, that's the son, that's the
daughters, that's the husbands,that's the wives, and those are
the towels.
So now you take care of yourstuff over here, you take care
of your stuff over here, andthen that big pile of laundry
actually isn't as bad becauseyou've separated it out, right?

SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Am I allowed to use yours now?
Maybe I have to change and havemy laundry analogy instead of a
shoebox.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (21:10):
I love that, right?
Because even with like theshoebox thing, like you could
go, like, okay, well, if I havea hundred shoes I gotta put
away, that's gonna be a lot.
So I'm gonna put the blues inone pile, the reds in one pile,
the greens in this pile, right?
And so I'll do it that way, butyou got to break it down, like
you said.

SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Yeah, there you go.
I love that.

SPEAKER_04 (21:25):
Yeah, visualizations I think help people.

SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
I did yes, I learned that from somebody who was like,
you know, we can learn concepts,but we're much better when we
have something that we canvisualize.

SPEAKER_04 (21:35):
And the overwhelm is so true.
I do think that that's whysocial media has gotten so out
of control because we are usingit to numb, because we're trying
to avoid the stuff that is, youknow, like the fourth thing that
you were talking about, thefourth problem.
We're trying to avoid it.
The one thing that when you aresaying you write a list, my mind
immediately goes to a list ofstuff to do.
I don't need a list of stuff todo, right?

(21:57):
Really that like the oh, as soonas you say list, I'm like, Do
you know how much I have on mylist?
Like my list can feel like pagesof just shit to do, right?
So it's like when you say alist, it triggers something in
my mind about it.

SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
But that's because you're not using the list,
right?
That's you check your list off,huh?
You check your list off.

SPEAKER_04 (22:16):
Uh I cross them off as I do them, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
Okay, but so when you're making a list, first off,
then you don't have to rememberstuff, right?
Yeah, so that makes it easierbecause now you have more brain
power because you don't go, youdon't worry about, oh, I forgot
to do something because it'swritten down.

SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
Number one.

SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
Number two, when you cross it off, what?
That's five points of pleasureright there.
Cross it off.
My friend, I talked, I wastalking to my friend about this,
and she's a college professor.
And I said something about Liz.
She goes, Oh my god, I love Liz.
And I'm like, What?
So she makes a list ofeverything and she goes, I'll
cross it off.
And she goes, I'll go back fivedays.

(22:50):
Because, like, you know, you sayI'm gonna call this person and
you call them and they don'tanswer, so it's still on the
list, right?
She goes, No, no, I'll go backfive days and cross it off when
I finally talk.
She goes, Oh, I get so muchpleasure out of that.
It's great, right?
So you just got to use the listin the right way.
That's all right.

SPEAKER_04 (23:06):
And I think like it's kind of funny to go down
this path, but like, so I liketo cross it off.
That's a big thing.
And I will go back and cross offmy list too.
The problem is, is I have like alist here, I have lists in here.
You know, I have like listseverywhere, right?
So it doesn't think you do haveto combine them into one type of
thing.
So they're just not like I havelists everywhere, what shape or
form I go.

SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Well, so I I don't know about you, but I I mean I
see you using books.
I use my phone because myphone's with me all the time.
It's like attached to myunderwear.
In my in in the in that list,there's like, and I've actually
found like like I'll write alist out one day because because
like in a way my mind works,it's like I'll be sleeping and
wake up and go, Oh yeah, andthen I'll add it to the list.
Because if I don't add it to thelist, like by the morning, I'll

(23:48):
have forgotten what it was thatI was supposed to read, right?
And so by having a list, then Ican go back and go, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I did that, did that, didthat right?
Cross things off, add things on.
So I was just at a rotarymeeting yesterday and I added
three things to the list, butit's all in one place, so I
don't have it like fivedifferent places, and it's all
on my phone, so it's rightthere, but it's under uh like an
app, and I can just I don't haveto look at it every single day.

(24:10):
I mean, because it also makes mewonder if you're looking at that
list and feeling like a littleoverwhelmed, yeah.
Like like um yeah, guilty thatyou're not getting the stuff
done.
So yeah, do what you do withyour laundry, just take one
thing and get it done, right?
I think the list will actuallyhelp you.
You just need to put them all inone place, scratch them off, get

(24:31):
the pleasure from that, not getoverwhelmed by the list because
even though you might have a lotof things to do, prioritize your
list, put different colors onthem.
So these are things that need tobe done now, these are things
that can be done, whatever.
So on my list is write thesecond book, right?
It's called being kind ofhighway to your happy place,
mile marker two, right?
That's on my list, but obviouslythat's not gonna happen

(24:52):
tomorrow, right?

SPEAKER_04 (24:53):
So maybe you put like write a chapter by XYZ.
That would make sense, yes,right?
Because then you're breaking itdown.
Um on that.
It's funny.
I do actually have I have awhiteboard that has various
different colors that say likewhat I'm supposed to be now,
what I'm supposed to do later,and now it's just sitting there
and it's like a month old ofstuff.
I just still have on my glasses.

SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
Yeah, well, and that happens, but I mean that's what
Canfield's book's about is howto not let that happen.
So that you're taking actionablethings.
He wants things that areactionable, he wants things that
are measurable, right?
That kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (25:23):
So yeah, he does say that too.
You're um fun.
I don't know if you hear that alot, but you're fun.

SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
We haven't even gotten to the happy place yet.

SPEAKER_04 (25:30):
Okay, well, tell us the happy place.

SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
I was talking to my patients, they they're like, I
go, Hey, I'm writing this bookon how to have less stress.
And they're like, Oh, I needthat book.
Every single person I've eversaid it's and I go, you know,
there's like 300 books outthere, maybe a thousand, right?
Have you read any of them?
Like, I'll give it too muchstress at the end of it.
So I'll give them the book andI'll talk to them a couple
months later.
He said, What you think?
And they're like, Oh, I haven'thad a chance to read it yet.

(25:52):
I'm like, Well, it's not gonnaget in your head by just sitting
on your coffee table, right?
But then I said to them, Well,look, where would you be if you
had less stress?
And they looked at me like, Idon't know, I only got as far as
wanting to have less stress.
I never really thought aboutwhere that would put me, right?
So it got me thinking that wait,we need a destination.
And this came up because my wifeand I did this diet called

(26:12):
Optavia.
I don't know if you've everheard of it or not, but yeah,
what he talks about is notsaying, Don't go to a weight,
you want to be healthy.
Because if you go for me, Iwanted to be 180 pounds.
If you put that as your goal,when you get to the 180, then
you're gonna stop doing thethings that got you to 180
because you met your goal,right?
So he says, instead of doingthat, think I want to be
healthy.
And by being healthy, you get tothat weight, but then you're

(26:34):
committed to staying therebecause you want to be healthy,
not 180 pounds, right?
So I said the same thing.
If I had people have lessstress, but they don't know
where they want to be, they'regonna be in the same place.
You're gonna do less stress, butthen they're gonna stop the
things they did to be in lessstress.
So I said, we need to come upwith a place that you're gonna
go to, and that became the happyplace, right?
I realized that everybody'shappy place is different.

(26:54):
So my wife and I have verydifferent happy places.
Like I like the beach, I likehanging out on the beach and the
sun and the sun tent, waves,right?
My wife thinks the beach is abig kitty litter box.
And I'm like, yeah, that's notgonna work, is it?
Right.
So here's what I realized isthat even though our happy
places have differentvariations, they have the same
rooms, they have the sameplaces, so they have the same

(27:16):
kitchen, they all have a diningroom, they all have a living
room, they're decorateddifferently, but they all have
the same rooms.
So then I was like, Well, whatare the rooms of people's happy
places, right?
So here's the list.
So the first one was gratitude.
So we need to be grateful, andI'm not just mean a little
grateful, grateful foreverything because we tend to
take for granted a lot of stuff.
So my wife and I got to go toGermany on a vacation, and we're

(27:38):
in this beautiful castle, right?
It's huge, it's beautifullydecorated.
Yeah, but it didn't have airconditioning, it didn't have
windows, it didn't have indoorplumbing.
It was like, wait, what?
Like, I'm living better than theking of Germany was 300 years
ago.
By far, not even close, right?
They didn't have cars, TVs,refrigerated.
Like, no, we have all the stuffright that we just take for

(28:01):
granted.
So we have to be grateful forthat.
And when you're grateful, it'shard to be upset.
Some bad thing happens, you'relike, oh, but look, all these
other things, right?
Second is then pleasure.
And what I see is that humanswere designed to have pleasure,
but they were little pleasures,like a little, like, oh, I found
some extra berries, or I caughta fish today, right?
We've tended to make it intothese big things, like, oh, I

(28:23):
got married, or I graduated, orI passed the test.
I'm like, no, we need to go backto where it was.
So I think of that pleasure as ajigsaw, a hundred a
thousand-piece jigsaw puzzle,right?
So every piece is like, ooh, alittle zing.
Oh, that was I got a piece.
Oh, I got another piece.
Oh, I got so you get 999 littlezings of pleasure.
But then at the end, you get abig pleasure because now the

(28:45):
puzzles together, you're like,whoa, right.
But 999 times you go, ooh, thatwas nice.
If you fill your day with thoselittle pleasures, wow, what a
nice thing.
Then you don't wait for that bigpleasure to come along because
that sometimes it could bedisappointing, it might not be
as good as you thought, right?

SPEAKER_04 (29:00):
Real quick on that.
Do you think people haveforgotten what pleasure feels
like?

SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Well, I think they've changed it from these
little pleasures to this bigpleasure.
So what happens is I'm gonnaretire.
Well, that's years away, right?
It's gonna, and it might not beas great as you think, right?
I think we have ignored thoselittle pleasures because we've
taken them for granted.
One, I'll give you an example.
When I was a kid, I had a carand it had roll windows, like

(29:27):
you know, right.
I'm like, what is it?
No, my kids would like not evenknow what that is, right?

SPEAKER_04 (29:31):
I know somebody roll down a window, you still do it.

SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Right, exactly, right?
So I'm rolling down the windowand the handle breaks.
And I'm like, what?
So then I had this little nub.
So every time I wanted to raisethe window or lower it, I had to
like turn the nub like this.
So when I finally got to theautopart store and bought a
crank, it was like, Oh my god,this is so nice, right?
Yeah, so those are the kinds ofthings that we tend to ignore

(29:56):
because we just push a buttonand the window goes down.
What nice is that, right?
So then the next thing isanticipation pleasure.
And that's using our skill ofenvisioning the future.
But now we're anticipatingthings that are going to happen.
So my wife and I are going to goto Greece with some friends.
In my anticipation, it's like,oh, this is going to be great.
Greece is going to be beautiful.
The airplane's going to be fine.

(30:16):
My luggage is going to getthere.
At the end of the vacation, myfriends are still going to be my
friends.
Yay! Right.
So I have pleasure in my pocket.
All I got to do is think aboutGreece.
I'm like, oh, a little totalpleasure, right?
And then we have fulfillment.
So fulfillment is a combinationof things.
And it's about learning.
So humans are very curious.

(30:37):
Like we're way more curious thanother than every other animal.
And we had to be because we hadto go around in our environment
to find food and to make sure wewere safe.
So it's built into our DNA tofind curiosity pleasurable.
So we like learning.
So we need to do that.
That is part of fulfillment.
Second is is um is sharing.

(30:58):
So we're a group organism.
Like we don't have the bestclaws, we don't have the best
vision, we're not the fastestanimal, but we work in a group
really well.
So in a group, we can take downa woolly mammoth.
What?
Right?
So in a group, sharing thenbecomes important.
So it's again, it's built intoour DNA to find sharing
pleasurable.

(31:18):
So when I have something extra,I have a couple extra berries
and I give them to you.
That makes me feel good.
Plus, it makes you not hungrybecause now you got some extra
berries.
But when you have some extrafish and I don't have any
berries, you're giving me somefish.
Oh, okay.
So sharing is built into ourDNA.
And the third thing is purpose.
And every other organism outthere finds purpose by staying

(31:38):
alive.
That's their goal.
For humans, I wake up in themorning, like, okay, I'm still
here, right?
Like it's not that big a deal,right?
Isn't that funny?
It's so true, right?
Right.
Some people wake up and go, Ugh,I'm still here, right?
So staying alive isn't enough ofa purpose anymore to jazz us up.
It doesn't get us excited to getup in the morning, go, I'm still
alive, right?

(31:59):
So we've had to find otherthings to give us purpose to
give us that feeling ofexcitement when you get up in
the morning.
So for me, being a doctor wasthat like I was excited every
day I got up to help somebody,blah, blah, blah.
And I realized that when Istopped being a doctor, a lot of
doctors get into trouble becausethey don't know what to do
themselves.
But I had this book.
So it turns out I'm doing thesame thing.
I'm helping people, but insteadof with a stethoscope and a

(32:21):
shipping pad, I'm using a book,but I'm doing the same thing.
So I still get jazzed up.
I get to be on Barbara's web,you know, her podcast.
Yes, right.

SPEAKER_04 (32:30):
I know you woke up this morning, you're like, This
is a big never happened to me.

SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
Like, yes, all right.
Um, my wife, she struggled,right?
So she did the billing in myoffice, she hated it.
So I would say, honey, you don'tneed to do this.
We can hire somebody to do whatyou're doing.
And her answer, yeah, I'm well,I'm not doing a good job.
You stepped in it, huh?
There was no one in that one,right?
Anyway, so when I retired, shefinally got to stop doing the

(32:55):
billing.
But here's her problem.
So now she gets up and we'relike, What do I do with myself?
And she's really strugglingbecause she doesn't know what to
do with herself now, even thoughshe hated the billing, gave her
something to do.
Now, oh, it's been a year, andso she's had time now.
So she's a beekeeper and she'sworking at a charity, and we
found a church where they havethey play cards on Monday night,
and she's got in a book club, soyou know, you can start seeing

(33:17):
the pieces coming.
So she's like, Oh, today's bookclub, all right.
And so she's reading a book, soshe's getting there.
There is a thing called ickyguy.
So ikki guy is a Japanese term,and what it says is fill out
these four circles.
And it's like, what am I goodat?
What do I like to do?
What can I make money at?
And what will help my community?
And when you fill out the blockswhere they intersect, that's
your icky guy.

(33:37):
That's your purpose.
And you're like, So for me, itwas easy, right?
My purpose was real easy helpingpeople, writing this book, going
out there, being on podcasts,right, doing talks.
Yeah, that became real easy forme.
She's now starting to figure itout, right?

SPEAKER_04 (33:50):
Don't you feel like people are so overwhelmed they
don't even have like they'rejust surviving, right?
So their work is not theirpurpose because their work has
to pay the bills, their childrenare not their purpose because at
this point they're a liabilityand a burden because they cost
them much money and they're justtrying to pay their bills, like
that.
People just and I know that thisis a tool like to teach people
to have a purpose, but I findlike in general, most people are

(34:11):
just so overwhelmed that theycan't even find these things.

SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
You are correct.
When people are overwhelmed,they tend to shut down and they
can't do the things that I'mtalking about.
But one of the reasons they getoverwhelmed is because they
haven't done so.
And I'm talking to my stepson inAtlanta with his 120 animals,
he's clearly overwhelmed.
And I say to him, So what's yourgoal?
He doesn't know.
Like, where do you want to be?
What's your purpose?
He doesn't know.

(34:35):
So he's gone from job to job,and he he's been doing, and this
is where I find people get intotrouble.
You mentioned kids, we tend tofocus on the negative part of
our kids.
Oh, they cost money, they'repains in the butt, police them,
and like, no, but there's a bigpart of our kids too, right?
I mean, they're really nice,right?
Like, there's a reason we havekids, they're cool, right?

(34:55):
Yeah, so one of the things thatI find is when people are
focused on, like I said to mystepson, he was working as a
bartender and he was he wasupset, he was miserable.
And I'm like, dude, go to work,change.
That's where the book MindsetMatter comes in, right?
Change your mindset.
I said, Go to work.
Think of all the good thingsthat are gonna happen when you
go to work and how much fun it'sgonna be, and you're gonna meet

(35:15):
somebody new, and blah blahblah, right.
He came back that night and hewas miserable.
I'm like, what happened?
He goes, I didn't do a singlething you said, and I was
miserable and I got no tipsbecause people figured out I was
miserable.
And I'm like, Yeah, see, somindset really matters.
Like instead of focusing on thenegative things that are going
on with his work or with yourkids or with whatever your work

(35:37):
or whatever, focus on the partthat's good, and that makes you
feel good right now, which thenmakes it easier to get up in the
morning and do stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (35:44):
And that goes back to your other steps
having that whole um pocketthing you talked about, like
they're they all work together.

SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
That is exactly right.
So the last room is what I callcash.
And I was talking to these highschools like, no, I'm not giving
you cash.
It's acronym.
I was kind of hoping for a Zell.
Yeah, I know, right?
Get your Zells out right anyway.
So cash is an acronym and itstands for being connected and
feeling in control because welike that, right?
We like being connected, andthen the second the A is for

(36:13):
accepted and being appreciated,and that's where parents get
into trouble, is a lot of timesthey don't feel appreciated,
like they're putting out allthis effort for their kids and
they don't appreciate.
Like my kids would say, Dad,what have you ever done for me?
And I'm like, Are you kiddingme?
Are you breathing right now?
It's exactly like before youwere born, I was doing stuff for
you, right?

(36:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So what we do in our head islike, Well, I know they
appreciate it, but and what Itell people is appreciation was
the original currency.
Think about this.
Before we had money and Wampumand whatever else we used,
right?
Appreciation was the currency.
So if you did something nice forme, I said, Thank you so much.
That was nice, and that makespeople feel good.
Yeah, it makes you feel good forsaying it, it makes them really

(36:55):
feel good.
If you say it genuinely, man,that it's worth more than most
than money can be, right?
And it's like it's free, itdoesn't cost anything, you can
just do it whenever, right?
How nice is that, right?
Then the S is for feeling safebecause we all want to feel
safe, and the other S is forspiritual, right?
And I had to add that in therebecause I realized there's a

(37:16):
book I'd read that said ourbrain really has four parts
there's a thinking part and anemotional part, a daredevil
part, and this the spiritualpart.
It's like we feel connected withthe universe, right?
And I think that religions tapinto that part of our brain
because that part of our braingets overrun by the thinking
part and by the emotional partand by the daredevil part.
So when it gets tapped into,you're like, it's a really nice

(37:38):
feeling.
And some of the drugs that wetake, some of the psilocybids
and things like that, stimulatethat part of our brain, which is
why they become so powerful, butalso so wanted, right?
Because that is such a greatfeeling.
And then the last one is humorand hope.
And humor I had to add, becauseI hadn't really thought about
humor, but humor, like we'vebeen doing this today, right?
Like we're taking thesesituations, like I'm sure you're

(37:59):
having struggles with your sonand his gaming, and it's like,
but we talked about ithumorously, so then it wasn't as
bad, right?
Right, right.
And so we take these mundanethings in our life and turn them
into humor, and then it's like,oh, it's not that bad, right?
And then hope is critical.
And what I find with my patientsis patients always will come in
and go, My life sucks.
And you're like, okay, what'sgonna happen?
You're like, Oh, well, it mightget better if I do this or I do

(38:21):
that, or when I retire, or whenmy kids grow up and go away, or
whatever, right?
So they have hope becausethey're using the future to go,
well, it sucks now, but it'sgonna get better.
When people lose their hope,that's dangerous, literally
dangerous.
That's when people startthinking about committing
suicide, right?
They go, like, my life sucks andit's never gonna get better.
And you're like, Whoa, oh,that's bad.

(38:42):
Because if it's never gonna getbetter, then what's the point,
right?
I have a patient that I saw, shewas like 17, 18 years old,
right?
I'm walking into the room to seeher because I've got to sign her
case, and the psychiatristwalking out because he's already
seen her, and he's like, Yeah,give don't waste your time on
her, there's nothing you'regonna do to fix her.
And I'm like, Whoa, for myself,that's like aggressive, right?

(39:05):
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
I was like, Man, how bad is thislady, right?
So I go, What's up?
She goes, My life sucks and it'snever gonna get better.
And I go, Well, what makes yourlife suck?
She goes, Well, I got a shittyboyfriend, and my dad is a pain
in the butt, and I work, but Ihave to give all my money to my
mom, and she uses to buy drugs.
And I'm like, Okay, that soundspretty bad, right?

(39:26):
Well, let's back up a second.
I go, let me get this straight.
So you've worked for two yearsand you've given all your money
to your mom.
So you've basically worked forfree for two years.
She's like, Well, yeah.
And I go, You know how amazingthat is?
Like, what happened?
What are you gonna do when youactually make money for
yourself?
How freaking nice is that gonnabe, right?
And I go, so you have thisboyfriend, and he goes yeah,

(39:46):
he's a pain in the butt.
And I go, Well, do you have sexwith him?
She goes, Well, yeah.
I go, Well, do you like it?
She goes, Well, yeah.
I'm like, Well, there you are.
So you're having sex and it'sgreat, right?
And I go, So you're living withyour dad and he's a pain in the
butt.
I'm like, Yeah, and I go, butyou're living in a house, right?
She goes, Well, yeah, because Ihad to live on the street for a
while and that was way worse.
And I'm like, So your lifedoesn't suck that bad.
Like, and what keeps you, can'tyou get a better job?

(40:08):
She goes, Well, I don't have aGED.
I'm like, Well, what keeps youfrom getting a GED?
She goes, Well, I go to school,I think I'm smart enough, but
then I get frustrated and Idon't do the test, and so then I
fail.
And I'm like, Oh, okay.
So it's in your control.
You have enough brain power, youjust need to focus and get the
test done and get your GED, andthen your world of opportunities
will open up.
So I walked out of the room ahalf an hour lady, and she had a

(40:30):
big smile on her face.
She was like, Let me out, I'mready to go.
I'm like, the psychiatrist isready to write her off.
I'm like, all it took waschanging her mindset, her
viewpoint, and going, My lifedoesn't suck as bad as I
thought.

SPEAKER_04 (40:43):
And I got things I can do to make it better.
Sadly, the psychiatrist mighthave given her depression
medications.
Absolutely.
I'm sure he did.

SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
I have no doubt that he would have given her
depression medicine.

SPEAKER_04 (40:52):
Yeah, whereas you're giving life tools that actually
last.

SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
Well, because I'm coming from a different point of
view.
Like that's what he and I don'tfault doctors, that's what
they're trained.
They're trained to do that.
What I want to do is changetheir training and go stop
calling people depressed, callthem overwhelmed.
And your treatment is verydifferent.
So if you say someone'sdepressed and they're chemically
imbalanced, it would make sense.
You give them a medicine, right?
If you think they'reoverwhelmed, then that doesn't

(41:16):
make any sense at all for thelong term, maybe short term, to
get them through some of thatsadness, so they go have an
energy to solve the problemsthat they have.
But helping them solve theirproblems is going to be way more
effective in fixing the problem.

SPEAKER_04 (41:28):
I love that.
Uh, if people want to take allof your wisdom, which I really
thoroughly enjoyed everythingthat you shared, how can they
find you?

SPEAKER_01 (41:38):
Right.
So I have a website,thelessstressdock.com.
And on that website, you know,there's stuff about me, but
there's also a chapter.
They can download the chapterand worry.
So if they don't have enoughmoney to buy the book, just
download the chapter and readthat.
What I tell people is you havean opportunity to buy the book,
it's on Amazon, it's on Barnesand Noble.
It came out an audiobook acouple months ago.
I just got to check on myaudiobook.

(41:59):
I'm like, what?
Like, people are buying theaudiobook, which is what I've
learned is that that's why I didthe audiobook.
People like hearing abouthearing the book, they're using
it in their car when they'redriving.
I was like, Yes, that wasexciting, right?

SPEAKER_04 (42:11):
Did you do your own audio?
Did you yes, I did, right?
Good, because your voice, likeit would be enthusiastic, right?
Like, so it was like that, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
They apparently when the guy sent it back to me, he
modulated a little bit, so ittook a little bit of the
enthusiasm out, but whatever.

SPEAKER_04 (42:25):
You're like, don't take away yeah, I know exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (42:27):
Yeah, yeah, I don't want to sound like an AI robot,
right?
Thank you.
Well, thank you for having me onhere.
The last message I give topatients is your people.
Sorry.
Um, my wife says I have to callthem clients now.

SPEAKER_02 (42:39):
I was like, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
Yeah, do not resign yourself to being stressed out.
Like, there's answers, there'sways out of that.
You don't have to live your lifethat way, but you do have to do
something to get there.

SPEAKER_04 (42:51):
Yeah, definitely.
You can't just sit there andignore the world.
Yes, love it.
Appreciate you.
I'm grateful for our time.
And thank you.

All Episodes

FWTW S3E07 | Why Stress Isn’t the Enemy—It’s the Side Effect of Your Brilliance: Dr Gary Sprouse

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}FWTW S3E07 | Why Stress Isn’t the Enemy—It’s the Side Effect of Your Brilliance: Dr Gary Sprouse