December 14, 2025 • 31 mins
Explore Septemics—a revolutionary system that breaks down human phenomena into 7-level scales, offering profound insights into behavior, relationships, and personal growth. In this episode, Jim Marshall, the discoverer of Septemics, explains to Barbie Moreno how these 35 unique scales can help anyone analyze and transform their life, relationships, and understanding of themselves. Whether you're struggling with recurring themes or seeking deeper self-awareness, Septemics provides a practical, philosophic framework for lasting change.
Chapter Sections:
Introduction to Septemics
The 7 Levels of Basic Purposes
Personal Influence and Choice Scales
Real-Life Examples and Historical Insights
How to Apply Septemics in Daily Life
Keywords for Search:
Septemics, human behavior, personal growth, self-help, philosophy, psychology, transformation, human hierarchies, life-changing systems, self-awareness, 7-level system, Septemics book, human development, philosophy of change, Jim Marshall, Barbie Moreno, Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Mahatma Gandhi, Elvis Presley, Socrates, Plato, John F Kennedy
Guest Info:
Follow Jim Marshall and learn the wonder of Septemics at septemics.com
Instagram | @septemics
Facebook | fb.com/jimmarshallpolymath/
Linkedin | Jim Marshall, Nonfiction Author Inventor of Septemics
We discuss the sample chapter of his book "Chapter One The Scale Of Basic Purposes" here: https://septemics.com/assets/sample-chapter.pdf
Buy his book to unlock all the other chapters: https://www.amazon.com/Septemics-Hierarchies-Phenomena-Prediction-Management/dp/166551244X
Follow me, Barbie Moreno at my socials for more stories of healing and transformation!
New Season, Season 4 of the podcast, From Wounds to Wisdom Podcast
Season 2
Unraveling the Mind: From Mental Struggles to Inner Strength.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Imagine there was a periodic table for human
behavior.
35 secret scales with sevenprecise levels that quietly
govern how you think, choose,and relate to everyone around
you.
Jim Marshall calls this systemSeptemix, and today he's
unpacking how finding your levelcan instantly change the way
that you see yourself and everyperson in your life.
(00:21):
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
When you find your base of purpose, it is a
life-changing moment.
You're never the same afterthat.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
This is from Wounds to Wisdom with Barbie Moreno.
Real talk, deep healing, andstories that turn pain into
power.
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
So thank you, Jim, for being here.
I'm excited to talk about yourbook, the way that you have
changed the way that things arehow we perceive ourselves and
how we can change ourselves.
So I'm excited to have this talkwith you.
Thanks, Barbie.
I'm glad to be here.
I feel like there's not like alot that I can really ask to get
you started because you knowyour work.
(01:12):
So if you wouldn't mind justgiving it to us.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
Well, the first thing I should say to give some
context to your viewers is thatI am the discoverer of hitherto
unknown natural phenomena, whichgreatly aiding the understanding
of people, from which Ideveloped a revolutionary
practical philosophic systemcalled Septemics and published
(01:36):
it in the book, SeptemicsHierarchies of Human Phenomena.
Septemics is a philosophicalscience based on the fact that
many phenomena related to humansoccur in a sequence of seven
levels.
Literally, the word septemicsmeans other pertaining to seven.
So Septemics comprises acollection of scales, each of
(01:57):
which breaks down some area ofhuman phenomena into a hierarchy
of seven steps.
There are 35 such scales, eachof which is unique.
And between them, they span thespectrum of human experience,
meaning any problem, dilemma,situation, difficulty that
anybody has that has to do withpeople can successfully be
(02:18):
analyzed by one or more of thesescales, usually more than one.
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
You basically say in your book, there are some things
that are just basically who youare, and then there are traits
on these scales of things thatyou can um change.
Is that accurate to say?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Well, I would say every person is at some level on
every scale.
That is within that axis who youare.
There's always the possibilityof moving up to the next level.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
The first scale is the scale of basic purposes,
right?
Right.
And I'm just gonna go throughthe scales a little bit if you
don't mind.
SPEAKER_03 (02:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (02:55):
So the the the highest part on the scale would
be what you call uh the type asa saint.
And the objective of this is tobe in transcendence.
And basically how this shows upis courage, wisdom, ethics.
SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
The very bottom of the scale, so you go down to you
go seven levels in each ofthese, like you said.
Um, so seven levels, the verybottom one would be subversive,
subversive.
And so this is like a negative,negative on the scale.
Its objective is basically to bejust destructive, right?
It's destructive and it shows upas fear, stupidity, criminality,
(03:31):
right?
Right.
So the one thing I do love aboutyour book is that it compares
people that we know.
So it says like this person itcurrently um is on the scale at
XYZ.
These are the reasons why theywould be on the scale.
But can you give us kind of howthe basic purposes work?
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Well, every person has one of seven basic purposes.
When you find your basicpurpose, it is a life-changing
moment.
You're never the same afterthat.
Because what happens is youthrow out the other six, you
say, those are for somebodyelse, this is who I am.
And then it's much easier tolive.
Everything that happens in yourlife will come into focus with
(04:08):
that basic purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
If we start off as loser, you say that we can only
go up one place on the scale ata time.
That's right.
So we can only move up or downone level.
Exactly.
For somebody to change theirbasic purpose, not all of the
other things, but their basicpurpose, is that difficult?
unknown (04:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yeah, that's what I was reading from the book.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Very big deal.
Yeah.
And it's clear if you look atthe scale, the reason why that
is it involves what in Easternphilosophy they call a reversal
of polarity.
So this has been known forthousands of years that this
happens to people.
You see somebody, and then yousee him at a later time, and
(04:50):
he's completely different.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
He had a reversal of polarity.
What would usually preempt thatchange?
Um, do you see things thatgenerally um precede a change
like that?
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Depends on the person.
I mean, I can give you specificexamples of people who change
levels, but that doesn't reallytell you anything regarding
anybody else.
Yeah.
What you need to know is you andeverybody listening to this, is
that of these levels, one ofthese seven levels on each of
(05:21):
these 35 scales.
And when you find your level, oryou find somebody else's level,
like your wife's or yourmother's, you have an insight.
Ah, now I see why I couldn't getalong with Joe.
See, right, and that is anepiphany, and you have already
benefited right there becauseyour understanding has improved,
(05:42):
and your relationship, if itinvolves a person like that,
just got better.
And so that person stays thesame, you can deal with them
better.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
You say it's not linear, right?
So somebody who is considered asaint is in some ways can be
very close to uh like uhsubversive, right?
And as far as like the way thatthey kind of maybe show up.
And the reason why I say that,for example, is from my
understanding of what you wrote,uh subversive is somebody who's
more like a um, they can'tsocialize so much with the
(06:14):
world.
Um, they are more of somebodywho uh, you know, uh, I wouldn't
say necessarily a homebody, butbasically somebody who um is
introverted.
And then you go into a saintwhere a saint almost doesn't
even need other people aroundthem, right?
They just kind of are alreadytranscendent, they don't need
all of the lessons that we'regonna learn.
So is that right to say thatyou're that from an outside
(06:36):
perspective, one might seem thesame as the other?
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
No, this is a linear scale.
You know, linear scale, it justgoes in a straight line.
You're not gonna mistake numberone for number seven.
If it's a spiral scale, that'swhat it was, which is the
alternative, then you have anapparent congruence between
level one and level seven.
And that is a catastrophicmistake.
(07:00):
The best example of that isJesus of Nazareth.
He was at level one, you know,and they treated him as if he
was at level seven, right?
And I'm not talking aboutnecessarily this scale, but it,
you know, there's 34 otherscales.
So it was a classic mistake ofuh mistaking the best for the
(07:21):
worst, and that happens a lot.
So that's why Abraham Lincolngot shot in the head.
Gandhi was assassinated, right?
So you have these people who arewho are magnificent people at
very high levels who people hateand kill.
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
So I know you said so there's seven scales, but
there's 35 total.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
There are 35 scales, each of them has seven levels,
which is why it's calledseptemics.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
I wanted to go to chapter two, which you talk
about the scale of personalinfluence.
So you start off at the highestlevel is telepathy, and then
martyrdom is um the seventhlevel, right?
So again, a linear scale, and inbetween is everything in
between.
Um and so telepathy is like itsays will, and then martyrdom is
humility.
(08:09):
So can you kind of give us whatis a scale of personal influence
and how that works?
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Well, let's talk about what we mean by personal
influence.
If I hit you over the head witha club, I would be influencing
you.
But that's not what I mean bypersonal influence.
There is when you interact withsomeone, that person has some
influence on you.
And there are seven ways thatcan occur.
So, for example, level two ischarisma.
(08:34):
Right.
Everybody raved about JFK'scharisma, Elvis's charisma, and
they were right.
They influence people at leveltwo.
There are these seven levels,and obviously, uh, I don't
recommend seven level sevenbecause you wind up dead on in
the martyrdom, the humility,right?
That's what Jesus did twothousand years later, something
(08:56):
like one and a half billionpeople are still following him.
So that's obviously a biginfluence, right?
They wear a crucifix, right?
So they're celebrating hisdeath.
SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
That's how he influenced the world, which is
interesting because on the basicpurposes, he's a one, a saint,
but then in the scale ofpersonal influence, he's a
seven.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
That's right, that's how he influenced people.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Yeah, that's it's interesting that there's such a
difference between the twoscales and the way that he would
show up, right?
That's right.
And you would think somebodylike um Jesus would um, again,
depending on what you believeabout him, but that he would be
in the world of telepathy,right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Like he, I'm sure he was with some people.
Okay, but generally, I'vestudied Christianity at great
length over many years, right?
He clearly had an influence.
This is embedded in all of theirdogma and their literature.
He influenced the world by hiscrucifixion, and it's very, very
(09:58):
that that's how he influencedthe world, right?
And it's even clear from his ownwords if you read the gospel
that he's saying that.
But that doesn't mean he wasn'tusing these other levels with
people in his life, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
It's just how he influenced the the mass
population, right?
Okay, so chapter three, you goto the scale of choice, which is
a spiral scale.
This one's not linear, right?
Uh and then so tell us thedifference between a linear and
spiral.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
Okay.
In a spiral scale, there is anapparent congruence between
level one and level seven.
It's very easy to make themistake of viewing a person
who's at level seven andthinking they're at one, or
viewing a person at level onethinking they're at seven.
Great example of this is AdolfHitler.
The Nazi thought he was thegreatest guy in the world.
(10:49):
I'm not exaggerating this.
They believed he was thegreatest man in the world.
Okay.
This was a man who was at levelseven on the scale of based
purposes.
So that's what a spy.
So obviously, they were treatinghim the way you would treat
somebody who was at a very highlevel.
And the opposite is also truefor Gandhi, who was at level one
(11:15):
and was assassinated.
They were treating him as if hewere at some very low level,
perhaps level seven.
See?
So that's the danger of a spiralscale.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
So the scale of choice.
So the level one is no choicenecessary, transcendence, right?
And then you go all the way downto level seven where it says no
choice.
So both of them have no choice.
But the difference is in levelseven, it says possible and
oblivion.
So you go from transcendence tooblivion, which this is kind of
what I was talking about alittle bit ago, that these could
get mixed up, right?
(11:46):
Because the transcendent persondoesn't necessarily uh need all
the drama, need all of thatdifferent stuff.
And then you have the obliviousperson who's living on a crack
cloud and they don't seeanything that's going on.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
Yeah.
And then in between you havethose.
No choice possible, right?
And no choice necessary.
Right.
Big difference.
Big difference.
But could show up the same, likeif somebody didn't know, they
might see them and go, Oh,they're completely oblivious.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Either, either uh at a cursory view where you're not
really paying attention, or justa dopey person.
You can't see the difference.
So that's just that person'slevel of perception.
Or like I went to a polo matchonce, and the person who took me
was an equestrian, and shepicked out a particular horse
and she said, Oh, that's awonderful horse.
I have no idea what the hell shewas looking at.
(12:33):
Right.
But they're all just horses, youknow.
So you're oblivious.
SPEAKER_02 (12:37):
Yeah.
And so your scale of choicecould be very different
depending on the subject, right?
Because you don't know anythingabout horses, but you're not
oblivious to everything.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
I wasn't talking about that example as far as the
scale.
SPEAKER_02 (12:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
I was just talking it in terms of people, says
people just can't perceivethings sometimes.
They can't, you know.
So there's there's lots of that.
Right.
I was yeah, absolutely.
There's lots of things.
As very well-educated person, Isee this go on all the time.
I mean, think about this, okay.
Half the people in the UnitedStates love Donald Trump, and
(13:13):
the other half hate his guts.
They can't both be right, right.
One of them is wrong.
So now I'm not going to give anopinion about who's right and
who's wrong.
I'm just saying they're not,they're at the same thing and
coming up with a completelydifferent conclusion.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
And that polarity, that was an extremely good
example, right?
Because it is so divided.
Right.
It goes on all the time withwith uh interpersonal
relationships.
Is there ever a time that youcan think of of a historical
figure who maybe we thought wastranscendent and they were
oblivious or vice versa?
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
But you know, people at level seven, that's like
people in insane asylums.
Right?
If you go into an assayingasylum, those people cannot make
a choice.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
And so, where do you think on the scale of choice?
And is it maybe you can't giveme this, but where most people
fall on your scale?
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
There is no most.
SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
Because, first of all, every person is different,
and even if I knew, I wouldn'ttell you, unless it's somebody
who's deceased.
Who's passed away?
Because that is your yeah, Iremember.
It's hard to conceal.
As far as the deceased people,the only reason I I give that is
to illuminate, to help youunderstand.
Because most people know GeorgeWashington, right?
(14:35):
So when I tell you he was atlevel three on the scale of
basic purposes, most people aregonna say, Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
See, because they kind of know him.
For on a scale of basicpurposes, if he was at a level
three, he would be called a typeof a his type would be winner,
his objective would be wealth.
So you believe that GeorgeWashington's objective in life
was wealth?
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yes, yeah, I agree with that statement.
If you study the man, which Ihave extensively, it's clear.
Now you have to realize wealthmeans different things, right?
He had hundreds of slaves.
That was wealth in those days.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
Yep, right?
Yep, and he's known for in adifferent way.
He's thought of more like goingin the way that they teach him
in history is more that he's ata higher level on that scale,
but really it was a lot of itwas his who he was was about
wealth, about accumulatingwealth, holding on to wealth.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
It's more he was on this scale.
This scale.
There's 34 other scales.
Yeah, so interesting.
So, how'd you come up with this?
This is a long answer, but I cantell you.
The the story begins when I wasaccepted into engineering school
at the age of 16.
Of course, I thought at the timeI was going to be engineering
physical things, such asairfoils, motors, electrons,
(15:53):
like all the other engineeringstudents taught.
But by the time I had mybachelor's degree, it was clear
to me that I wanted to engineerthe human psyche because that is
the area of that at least isknown about it.
It's the area of greatestmystery, and more importantly,
it is the area in which we as arace are failing miserably.
(16:14):
95% of the problems inindustrialized society are
because people don't understandpeople.
And this is the main problemthat people have.
To make a long story short, Ihad a long career as a human
development engineer, where Ibrought engineering skills,
engineering tactics, engineeringstrategies, engineering devices
(16:35):
to help my clients to attainhigher levels of wisdom, ethics,
enlightenment, responsibility,et cetera, et cetera, depending
on what the person wanted.
Incidentally, I started tonotice that I could predict the
outcome of the session.
In 1995, I had simply observedand recorded about 32 scales.
(16:59):
I would simply see that theperson was at this level.
I'd work with him, and he wouldgo up to the next level on that
scale.
Now, the reason that that wasscientifically uh important is
that they had no idea what I wasdoing, how I was doing it, what
I was using, what my techniqueswere.
(17:20):
They had no idea.
All the clients knew is theycome to me and say, Jim, I got a
drinking problem.
Can you help me?
I say, sure.
And I helped them, see, and thenthey're very happy and they go
away.
So they have no idea that I waswhat I was doing, what I was
thinking.
Uh, and I use devices where Iwould measure uh biofeedback on
(17:40):
them.
They had no idea what I waslooking for.
It's very complicated.
Reading the biofeedback on aliving person as he's talking.
I learned how to do it and Inoticed it, and it would, and it
gave me a fast way to help theperson because basically what I
was doing is Socratic dialogue.
Now, if you've read the Socraticdialogues, of which there are
(18:03):
many, written by his studentPlato, the whole idea is that
Socrates would have aconversation with somebody and
he would not tell him anything,he would bring the person to
enlightenment.
So he would say to the guy, Whatis ethics?
The guy couldn't answer thequestion.
Now, when he did answer thequestion, Socrates would say,
(18:25):
Yeah, but what about this?
And I go say, Oh, I didn't thinkabout that.
So at the end, the guy wouldhave an epiphany.
Now, the only difference betweenwhat Socrates was doing and what
I was doing is that thebiofeedback made it orders of
magnitude faster and easier.
Because a guy comes into me, hesays, uh, I'm having trouble
(18:49):
with my marriage, would you helpme?
Sure.
So I interview this guy with thebiofeedback.
So he has no idea, but I'mgetting this meter is telling me
things, so then I'm noting them.
So, and I'll get everythingunder the sun, like how do you
get along with your boss, how doyou get along with your father,
how do you get along with yourdog, etc.
It's right.
You you can imagine it's thisgoes on hours, right?
(19:13):
So, and he would have specificactions on the biofeedback, and
I note them.
I did this for a long time, andI got such consistently good
results in such such such periodof time.
This is like uh orders ofmagnitude faster than anything
that any therapist can dobecause of the biofeedback.
SPEAKER_02 (19:35):
So the understanding or the um the realization of
these things is what pushed themto the next level on the scale.
Yes, they didn't need to work onneurological uh pathways and all
of these different things.
It was just simply understandingoh, the reason why I understand
it, why I don't get along withwomen, boof, I can go out and
(19:58):
date now.
It was that easy.
Yep.
So why do we have all of thisstuff going on that people make
people go through all theseyears of therapy and they do all
of this stuff and they're doingTMS and they're DNA EMDR and
they're doing ayahuasca andthey're doing ketamine and
they're doing all of thesevarious different things if your
if your um system uh works likethis.
SPEAKER_00 (20:21):
And I don't have a million dollars to spend on
promotion because I spent mylife helping people.
It's just sad that that's theyyeah, they don't know.
No, yeah, yeah.
I studied the other 31 scales,and in a short period of time,
each of them developed into aseven-level scale.
And when it did, it manifestedmathematically.
(20:43):
So now I had 32 scales all abouthuman phenomena, all of which
had seven levels, all of whichhad math embedded in them.
And I said to myself, havinggone to school for 28 years, I
said, this looks like a newsubject to me because I never
saw anything like this before.
So then I thought, wait aminute, I could go from helping
(21:06):
people by the hundreds, which iswhat I had been doing as human
development engineer, to helpingpeople by the millions if I put
this in a book and get it out soeverybody can have it.
So I'm going to have to write abook.
So the first draft of the bookwas finished in December of 95.
And I immediately sent it tocolleagues of mine, each of whom
had graduate degrees in avariety of subjects.
(21:28):
And they all loved it.
They had differing responses,but distinctly positive
responses.
And that told me that this isexactly what I thought it was,
which is a subject that peoplewould get.
Yeah.
And the reason they get it isit's natural law.
How'd you go from 32 to 35?
(21:49):
Uh, while I was writing thebook, uh, which began in 95, as
you know, I was still doing workand I discovered three more.
I just included the men.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Before we go on to that, uh, why did you want to
help people?
I was born that way.
You just did people as a child,and you're like, I can help
this.
SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
Well, if you take a look at the scale of basic
purposes, how would a personbehave if we were at certain
levels?
That's not hard to figure out.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
If you don't mind, let's go into I'm an average
person.
I have uh recurring themes in mylife that I want to change.
And I pick up your book.
Now understand that as anaverage person, I would still
say that the average personwould have a hard time
comprehending it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
All right.
So let me clarify that for you.
There are 12 axioms of septemicsthat are on the whole site, if
you want to see them.
One of the axioms is when aperson is high on any scale,
it's because he's insightful inthat area.
And when a person is low on anyscale, it's because he lacks
(22:56):
insight in that area.
So if a person lacks insight ina certain area and you show him
the scale, it's just gonna begobbledygook to him.
Right, right.
But a person that's high in thatscale, he's gonna look, oh, I
see.
SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
Different scale.
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
And a perfect example of this is Bill Clinton.
Everybody knows who's beenpaying attention for 35 years,
that he's a brilliant person.
He was a road scholar.
Listen to him speak.
He's a smart, even his opponentsand his enemies admit how smart
he is.
Yeah.
But also, equally well known isthe fact that he's a serial
(23:32):
abuser of women.
Right.
So uh if you go to the scale ofhuman ability in his profession,
he is very high in that scale.
I'm not giving any levels.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
But if you go to the scale of sexuality, he's got to
be near the bottom.
Right.
So all these women sued him.
SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
You see?
If he was really looking at yourbook, though, he you feel he
would um understand those scalesbetter than maybe other scales?
SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
Well, in general, people understand certain scales
better than others, and it'sbecause of the person.
And the main factor is the onethat I just told you, which is
how high is the person on thatscale.
So let's say you take a guywho's a drug dealer, an addict,
and a wife beater, right?
He is at or near the bottom ofall of these scales.
(24:23):
Right.
That's why he's like that.
He's not gonna read this book.
Right.
But even if he did read thebook, he wouldn't understand it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Touche.
Just even by saying the factthat he wouldn't read the book,
it just kind of answers myquestion, right?
Like only people who are goingto want to understand this about
themselves and the world andtheir relationships would be
reading this book.
Right.
Could somebody use these scalesto manipulate other people?
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
The short answer is no, and I'll tell you why.
This book is for anyone who canread English reasonably well and
wants to improve himself orothers.
Anyone who wants to improveherself or others is not going
to be into manipulating people.
The people who want tomanipulate people, like Joseph
Goebbels, Hitler, his whole jobwas to manipulate people.
(25:08):
Right?
He's not a potential septemicistbecause he was not about helping
himself or helping others.
All right.
He was about manipulatingpeople.
So, what we know is there areall kinds of groups of people
who are not going to useseptemics, psychopaths,
sociopaths, serial murderers,corrupt politicians, uh,
(25:31):
ignoramuses, morons.
There's lots of groups of peoplewho, if they do bother to read
the book, won't understand it atall.
And in some cases, even if theydo understand it, they won't
apply it because it's contraryto their way of life.
This is about uplifting people.
Do you think the Nazis wereabout uplifting people?
(25:52):
Obviously not.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
Yeah, they would have burned your book.
Would somebody reading the bookmove them up?
Just the mere fact that theyread the book move them up on
any of the scales.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
Would happen.
SPEAKER_02 (26:04):
Yeah, I would imagine so, right?
Because, like you said, withthat person, once they got the
knowledge that they, you know,the way that they perceived
women or whatever the case maybe, it then allowed them to go
date that guy, that story thatyou gave in the beginning,
right?
Just the simple knowledgesometimes helps people move.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Sometimes the guy reads and says, Oh, I see, I'm
right here, I'm at level three.
Explains me exactly.
See, that's uh a type ofenlightenment that he gets.
He is now a smarter person, andthat smartness carries forward
into everything else he does inhis life.
So, what you get with this bookis a virtuous cycle where the
(26:43):
more you use it, the smarter youget.
The smarter you get, the easieryou use, the more you use it,
and the more you use it, thesmarter you get.
So the sky is the limit.
If you live a thousand years,you will still be using this
book.
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
So the conspira the conspiracy theorists in me would
be that they that they, the bigthey, wouldn't want people to
have this knowledge because themore you know about yourself,
the better you become, the moreknowledgeable you become, the
less you can be controlled.
I say that in the book.
Okay.
So I like I say in the book, I'mvery I'm very glad it's killed
me yet.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like it,yeah, exactly.
(27:19):
Okay.
I would I I believe when wespoke, I asked if people could
work with you, but you said mostpeople have to work with you
physically because of thebiometrics.
Is that true?
SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
So there's so me living and you living where you
live, you and I could not worktogether because I can't
physically unless I go travel toyou, work be on your biometric
machine.
Or I could travel to you.
One more question before we go,if you don't mind.
Do you believe in that we're allvibrational, primarily
vibrational energy beings?
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
I have no beliefs.
Belief is only necessary whenknowledge is absent.
Reason I went to school for 28years and meditated for 40 years
is to get knowledge.
So I don't have to believe inanything.
In other words, it's aboutperception.
Yeah.
There's a scale of belief, and Italk about this in there.
(28:08):
That scale is very specific asit goes from belief down to
disbelief.
Disbelief is really nutty.
I mean, you cannot convince thatperson of anything because
they're in disbelief.
Doesn't matter what you say,they don't believe it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
You're an interesting human.
I'm sure that you know this inmany different ways.
I love it.
I think that that you have avery gifted mind.
I'm grateful for um one for youcoming on, obviously, because
then people can use this book toum better themselves in their
life.
I guess better is not a bettergood word for it, but that's
(28:43):
kind of what I'm gonna say.
Better is good.
Yeah, I like better.
Okay.
And um, I will give everybodytheir your information on how to
um find you.
But can you just give us a briefsummary?
If somebody's interested in you,I know you've been on a
ridiculous amount of podcasts.
How can they learn more?
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
I would invite your viewers to my website, which is
septemics.com, where you can seewhat many readers have said,
what many journalists havewritten.
You can read sections of thebook itself, you can read the
reviews, and you can even listento, if you wish, a pre-recorded
introduction to septemics thatexplains it to you in 15
(29:21):
minutes.
Love that.
I think that that would be greatfor people to do.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
This isn't a book that you sit down and put on
your nightstanding, you readwhen you have an extra few
minutes.
For those that are watching,like in my book, I have all
these like printouts of stuffwhere I'm writing down my things
so that I can compare things andthis, this, and that.
Like this is this is moreacademic uh kind of thing.
You need to really uh put theeffort into it if you want to
see and understand and get theresults.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
What I tell everybody is this is a textbook
on an entirely new subject.
So study it the way you wouldstudy a chemistry text, a
physics text, a biology text, amath text.
Never go past anything.
Use the glossaries, use adictionary, talk to people.
Don't go past anything that youdon't understand.
And when you get to the end,then come back to the beginning,
(30:05):
read it again, and find yourlevel on every scale.
And if you do that, you will be,by the time you finish, you will
be a new person.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
Yeah.
And that's what I've learned.
Like, I that I'm gonna have togo back through this, right?
Because like it was like aforeign language, and I read it
for the first time or read itfor the first time, right?
You know, uh kind of understandwhat we're talking about now.
I'm gonna have to go back andlook at it again and re-evaluate
it based on that.
Yeah, perfect.
I appreciate you.
Um, and we thank you for comingon.
(30:36):
And uh again, as I I go throughthe process, I'm sure that I
would like to have you back.
Okay, I'll be glad to come back.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time.
If this story spoke to you,let's keep the healing going.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Visit Barbie Moreno.com for my online course,
Awakening Your Worth in HealingEnergy Sessions, one on one
coaching, and your free healingguide.
SPEAKER_02 (30:58):
Your next step is waiting.
Imagine there was a periodic table for human
behavior.
35 secret scales with sevenprecise levels that quietly
govern how you think, choose,and relate to everyone around
you.
Jim Marshall calls this systemSeptemix, and today he's
unpacking how finding your levelcan instantly change the way
that you see yourself and everyperson in your life.
(00:21):
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
When you find your base of purpose, it is a
life-changing moment.
You're never the same afterthat.
SPEAKER_01 (00:42):
This is from Wounds to Wisdom with Barbie Moreno.
Real talk, deep healing, andstories that turn pain into
power.
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
So thank you, Jim, for being here.
I'm excited to talk about yourbook, the way that you have
changed the way that things arehow we perceive ourselves and
how we can change ourselves.
So I'm excited to have this talkwith you.
Thanks, Barbie.
I'm glad to be here.
I feel like there's not like alot that I can really ask to get
you started because you knowyour work.
(01:12):
So if you wouldn't mind justgiving it to us.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
Well, the first thing I should say to give some
context to your viewers is thatI am the discoverer of hitherto
unknown natural phenomena, whichgreatly aiding the understanding
of people, from which Ideveloped a revolutionary
practical philosophic systemcalled Septemics and published
(01:36):
it in the book, SeptemicsHierarchies of Human Phenomena.
Septemics is a philosophicalscience based on the fact that
many phenomena related to humansoccur in a sequence of seven
levels.
Literally, the word septemicsmeans other pertaining to seven.
So Septemics comprises acollection of scales, each of
(01:57):
which breaks down some area ofhuman phenomena into a hierarchy
of seven steps.
There are 35 such scales, eachof which is unique.
And between them, they span thespectrum of human experience,
meaning any problem, dilemma,situation, difficulty that
anybody has that has to do withpeople can successfully be
(02:18):
analyzed by one or more of thesescales, usually more than one.
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
You basically say in your book, there are some things
that are just basically who youare, and then there are traits
on these scales of things thatyou can um change.
Is that accurate to say?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
Well, I would say every person is at some level on
every scale.
That is within that axis who youare.
There's always the possibilityof moving up to the next level.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
The first scale is the scale of basic purposes,
right?
Right.
And I'm just gonna go throughthe scales a little bit if you
don't mind.
SPEAKER_03 (02:54):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (02:55):
So the the the highest part on the scale would
be what you call uh the type asa saint.
And the objective of this is tobe in transcendence.
And basically how this shows upis courage, wisdom, ethics.
SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
The very bottom of the scale, so you go down to you
go seven levels in each ofthese, like you said.
Um, so seven levels, the verybottom one would be subversive,
subversive.
And so this is like a negative,negative on the scale.
Its objective is basically to bejust destructive, right?
It's destructive and it shows upas fear, stupidity, criminality,
(03:31):
right?
Right.
So the one thing I do love aboutyour book is that it compares
people that we know.
So it says like this person itcurrently um is on the scale at
XYZ.
These are the reasons why theywould be on the scale.
But can you give us kind of howthe basic purposes work?
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Well, every person has one of seven basic purposes.
When you find your basicpurpose, it is a life-changing
moment.
You're never the same afterthat.
Because what happens is youthrow out the other six, you
say, those are for somebodyelse, this is who I am.
And then it's much easier tolive.
Everything that happens in yourlife will come into focus with
(04:08):
that basic purpose.
SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
If we start off as loser, you say that we can only
go up one place on the scale ata time.
That's right.
So we can only move up or downone level.
Exactly.
For somebody to change theirbasic purpose, not all of the
other things, but their basicpurpose, is that difficult?
unknown (04:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Yeah, that's what I was reading from the book.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Very big deal.
Yeah.
And it's clear if you look atthe scale, the reason why that
is it involves what in Easternphilosophy they call a reversal
of polarity.
So this has been known forthousands of years that this
happens to people.
You see somebody, and then yousee him at a later time, and
(04:50):
he's completely different.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
He had a reversal of polarity.
What would usually preempt thatchange?
Um, do you see things thatgenerally um precede a change
like that?
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Depends on the person.
I mean, I can give you specificexamples of people who change
levels, but that doesn't reallytell you anything regarding
anybody else.
Yeah.
What you need to know is you andeverybody listening to this, is
that of these levels, one ofthese seven levels on each of
(05:21):
these 35 scales.
And when you find your level, oryou find somebody else's level,
like your wife's or yourmother's, you have an insight.
Ah, now I see why I couldn't getalong with Joe.
See, right, and that is anepiphany, and you have already
benefited right there becauseyour understanding has improved,
(05:42):
and your relationship, if itinvolves a person like that,
just got better.
And so that person stays thesame, you can deal with them
better.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
You say it's not linear, right?
So somebody who is considered asaint is in some ways can be
very close to uh like uhsubversive, right?
And as far as like the way thatthey kind of maybe show up.
And the reason why I say that,for example, is from my
understanding of what you wrote,uh subversive is somebody who's
more like a um, they can'tsocialize so much with the
(06:14):
world.
Um, they are more of somebodywho uh, you know, uh, I wouldn't
say necessarily a homebody, butbasically somebody who um is
introverted.
And then you go into a saintwhere a saint almost doesn't
even need other people aroundthem, right?
They just kind of are alreadytranscendent, they don't need
all of the lessons that we'regonna learn.
So is that right to say thatyou're that from an outside
(06:36):
perspective, one might seem thesame as the other?
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
No, this is a linear scale.
You know, linear scale, it justgoes in a straight line.
You're not gonna mistake numberone for number seven.
If it's a spiral scale, that'swhat it was, which is the
alternative, then you have anapparent congruence between
level one and level seven.
And that is a catastrophicmistake.
(07:00):
The best example of that isJesus of Nazareth.
He was at level one, you know,and they treated him as if he
was at level seven, right?
And I'm not talking aboutnecessarily this scale, but it,
you know, there's 34 otherscales.
So it was a classic mistake ofuh mistaking the best for the
(07:21):
worst, and that happens a lot.
So that's why Abraham Lincolngot shot in the head.
Gandhi was assassinated, right?
So you have these people who arewho are magnificent people at
very high levels who people hateand kill.
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
So I know you said so there's seven scales, but
there's 35 total.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
There are 35 scales, each of them has seven levels,
which is why it's calledseptemics.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
I wanted to go to chapter two, which you talk
about the scale of personalinfluence.
So you start off at the highestlevel is telepathy, and then
martyrdom is um the seventhlevel, right?
So again, a linear scale, and inbetween is everything in
between.
Um and so telepathy is like itsays will, and then martyrdom is
humility.
(08:09):
So can you kind of give us whatis a scale of personal influence
and how that works?
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Well, let's talk about what we mean by personal
influence.
If I hit you over the head witha club, I would be influencing
you.
But that's not what I mean bypersonal influence.
There is when you interact withsomeone, that person has some
influence on you.
And there are seven ways thatcan occur.
So, for example, level two ischarisma.
(08:34):
Right.
Everybody raved about JFK'scharisma, Elvis's charisma, and
they were right.
They influence people at leveltwo.
There are these seven levels,and obviously, uh, I don't
recommend seven level sevenbecause you wind up dead on in
the martyrdom, the humility,right?
That's what Jesus did twothousand years later, something
(08:56):
like one and a half billionpeople are still following him.
So that's obviously a biginfluence, right?
They wear a crucifix, right?
So they're celebrating hisdeath.
SPEAKER_02 (09:08):
That's how he influenced the world, which is
interesting because on the basicpurposes, he's a one, a saint,
but then in the scale ofpersonal influence, he's a
seven.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
That's right, that's how he influenced people.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Yeah, that's it's interesting that there's such a
difference between the twoscales and the way that he would
show up, right?
That's right.
And you would think somebodylike um Jesus would um, again,
depending on what you believeabout him, but that he would be
in the world of telepathy,right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Like he, I'm sure he was with some people.
Okay, but generally, I'vestudied Christianity at great
length over many years, right?
He clearly had an influence.
This is embedded in all of theirdogma and their literature.
He influenced the world by hiscrucifixion, and it's very, very
(09:58):
that that's how he influencedthe world, right?
And it's even clear from his ownwords if you read the gospel
that he's saying that.
But that doesn't mean he wasn'tusing these other levels with
people in his life, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
It's just how he influenced the the mass
population, right?
Okay, so chapter three, you goto the scale of choice, which is
a spiral scale.
This one's not linear, right?
Uh and then so tell us thedifference between a linear and
spiral.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
Okay.
In a spiral scale, there is anapparent congruence between
level one and level seven.
It's very easy to make themistake of viewing a person
who's at level seven andthinking they're at one, or
viewing a person at level onethinking they're at seven.
Great example of this is AdolfHitler.
The Nazi thought he was thegreatest guy in the world.
(10:49):
I'm not exaggerating this.
They believed he was thegreatest man in the world.
Okay.
This was a man who was at levelseven on the scale of based
purposes.
So that's what a spy.
So obviously, they were treatinghim the way you would treat
somebody who was at a very highlevel.
And the opposite is also truefor Gandhi, who was at level one
(11:15):
and was assassinated.
They were treating him as if hewere at some very low level,
perhaps level seven.
See?
So that's the danger of a spiralscale.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
So the scale of choice.
So the level one is no choicenecessary, transcendence, right?
And then you go all the way downto level seven where it says no
choice.
So both of them have no choice.
But the difference is in levelseven, it says possible and
oblivion.
So you go from transcendence tooblivion, which this is kind of
what I was talking about alittle bit ago, that these could
get mixed up, right?
(11:46):
Because the transcendent persondoesn't necessarily uh need all
the drama, need all of thatdifferent stuff.
And then you have the obliviousperson who's living on a crack
cloud and they don't seeanything that's going on.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:58):
Yeah.
And then in between you havethose.
No choice possible, right?
And no choice necessary.
Right.
Big difference.
Big difference.
But could show up the same, likeif somebody didn't know, they
might see them and go, Oh,they're completely oblivious.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Either, either uh at a cursory view where you're not
really paying attention, or justa dopey person.
You can't see the difference.
So that's just that person'slevel of perception.
Or like I went to a polo matchonce, and the person who took me
was an equestrian, and shepicked out a particular horse
and she said, Oh, that's awonderful horse.
I have no idea what the hell shewas looking at.
(12:33):
Right.
But they're all just horses, youknow.
So you're oblivious.
SPEAKER_02 (12:37):
Yeah.
And so your scale of choicecould be very different
depending on the subject, right?
Because you don't know anythingabout horses, but you're not
oblivious to everything.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
I wasn't talking about that example as far as the
scale.
SPEAKER_02 (12:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
I was just talking it in terms of people, says
people just can't perceivethings sometimes.
They can't, you know.
So there's there's lots of that.
Right.
I was yeah, absolutely.
There's lots of things.
As very well-educated person, Isee this go on all the time.
I mean, think about this, okay.
Half the people in the UnitedStates love Donald Trump, and
(13:13):
the other half hate his guts.
They can't both be right, right.
One of them is wrong.
So now I'm not going to give anopinion about who's right and
who's wrong.
I'm just saying they're not,they're at the same thing and
coming up with a completelydifferent conclusion.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
And that polarity, that was an extremely good
example, right?
Because it is so divided.
Right.
It goes on all the time withwith uh interpersonal
relationships.
Is there ever a time that youcan think of of a historical
figure who maybe we thought wastranscendent and they were
oblivious or vice versa?
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
But you know, people at level seven, that's like
people in insane asylums.
Right?
If you go into an assayingasylum, those people cannot make
a choice.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
And so, where do you think on the scale of choice?
And is it maybe you can't giveme this, but where most people
fall on your scale?
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
There is no most.
SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
Because, first of all, every person is different,
and even if I knew, I wouldn'ttell you, unless it's somebody
who's deceased.
Who's passed away?
Because that is your yeah, Iremember.
It's hard to conceal.
As far as the deceased people,the only reason I I give that is
to illuminate, to help youunderstand.
Because most people know GeorgeWashington, right?
(14:35):
So when I tell you he was atlevel three on the scale of
basic purposes, most people aregonna say, Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
See, because they kind of know him.
For on a scale of basicpurposes, if he was at a level
three, he would be called a typeof a his type would be winner,
his objective would be wealth.
So you believe that GeorgeWashington's objective in life
was wealth?
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yes, yeah, I agree with that statement.
If you study the man, which Ihave extensively, it's clear.
Now you have to realize wealthmeans different things, right?
He had hundreds of slaves.
That was wealth in those days.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
Yep, right?
Yep, and he's known for in adifferent way.
He's thought of more like goingin the way that they teach him
in history is more that he's ata higher level on that scale,
but really it was a lot of itwas his who he was was about
wealth, about accumulatingwealth, holding on to wealth.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
It's more he was on this scale.
This scale.
There's 34 other scales.
Yeah, so interesting.
So, how'd you come up with this?
This is a long answer, but I cantell you.
The the story begins when I wasaccepted into engineering school
at the age of 16.
Of course, I thought at the timeI was going to be engineering
physical things, such asairfoils, motors, electrons,
(15:53):
like all the other engineeringstudents taught.
But by the time I had mybachelor's degree, it was clear
to me that I wanted to engineerthe human psyche because that is
the area of that at least isknown about it.
It's the area of greatestmystery, and more importantly,
it is the area in which we as arace are failing miserably.
(16:14):
95% of the problems inindustrialized society are
because people don't understandpeople.
And this is the main problemthat people have.
To make a long story short, Ihad a long career as a human
development engineer, where Ibrought engineering skills,
engineering tactics, engineeringstrategies, engineering devices
(16:35):
to help my clients to attainhigher levels of wisdom, ethics,
enlightenment, responsibility,et cetera, et cetera, depending
on what the person wanted.
Incidentally, I started tonotice that I could predict the
outcome of the session.
In 1995, I had simply observedand recorded about 32 scales.
(16:59):
I would simply see that theperson was at this level.
I'd work with him, and he wouldgo up to the next level on that
scale.
Now, the reason that that wasscientifically uh important is
that they had no idea what I wasdoing, how I was doing it, what
I was using, what my techniqueswere.
(17:20):
They had no idea.
All the clients knew is theycome to me and say, Jim, I got a
drinking problem.
Can you help me?
I say, sure.
And I helped them, see, and thenthey're very happy and they go
away.
So they have no idea that I waswhat I was doing, what I was
thinking.
Uh, and I use devices where Iwould measure uh biofeedback on
(17:40):
them.
They had no idea what I waslooking for.
It's very complicated.
Reading the biofeedback on aliving person as he's talking.
I learned how to do it and Inoticed it, and it would, and it
gave me a fast way to help theperson because basically what I
was doing is Socratic dialogue.
Now, if you've read the Socraticdialogues, of which there are
(18:03):
many, written by his studentPlato, the whole idea is that
Socrates would have aconversation with somebody and
he would not tell him anything,he would bring the person to
enlightenment.
So he would say to the guy, Whatis ethics?
The guy couldn't answer thequestion.
Now, when he did answer thequestion, Socrates would say,
(18:25):
Yeah, but what about this?
And I go say, Oh, I didn't thinkabout that.
So at the end, the guy wouldhave an epiphany.
Now, the only difference betweenwhat Socrates was doing and what
I was doing is that thebiofeedback made it orders of
magnitude faster and easier.
Because a guy comes into me, hesays, uh, I'm having trouble
(18:49):
with my marriage, would you helpme?
Sure.
So I interview this guy with thebiofeedback.
So he has no idea, but I'mgetting this meter is telling me
things, so then I'm noting them.
So, and I'll get everythingunder the sun, like how do you
get along with your boss, how doyou get along with your father,
how do you get along with yourdog, etc.
It's right.
You you can imagine it's thisgoes on hours, right?
(19:13):
So, and he would have specificactions on the biofeedback, and
I note them.
I did this for a long time, andI got such consistently good
results in such such such periodof time.
This is like uh orders ofmagnitude faster than anything
that any therapist can dobecause of the biofeedback.
SPEAKER_02 (19:35):
So the understanding or the um the realization of
these things is what pushed themto the next level on the scale.
Yes, they didn't need to work onneurological uh pathways and all
of these different things.
It was just simply understandingoh, the reason why I understand
it, why I don't get along withwomen, boof, I can go out and
(19:58):
date now.
It was that easy.
Yep.
So why do we have all of thisstuff going on that people make
people go through all theseyears of therapy and they do all
of this stuff and they're doingTMS and they're DNA EMDR and
they're doing ayahuasca andthey're doing ketamine and
they're doing all of thesevarious different things if your
if your um system uh works likethis.
SPEAKER_00 (20:21):
And I don't have a million dollars to spend on
promotion because I spent mylife helping people.
It's just sad that that's theyyeah, they don't know.
No, yeah, yeah.
I studied the other 31 scales,and in a short period of time,
each of them developed into aseven-level scale.
And when it did, it manifestedmathematically.
(20:43):
So now I had 32 scales all abouthuman phenomena, all of which
had seven levels, all of whichhad math embedded in them.
And I said to myself, havinggone to school for 28 years, I
said, this looks like a newsubject to me because I never
saw anything like this before.
So then I thought, wait aminute, I could go from helping
(21:06):
people by the hundreds, which iswhat I had been doing as human
development engineer, to helpingpeople by the millions if I put
this in a book and get it out soeverybody can have it.
So I'm going to have to write abook.
So the first draft of the bookwas finished in December of 95.
And I immediately sent it tocolleagues of mine, each of whom
had graduate degrees in avariety of subjects.
(21:28):
And they all loved it.
They had differing responses,but distinctly positive
responses.
And that told me that this isexactly what I thought it was,
which is a subject that peoplewould get.
Yeah.
And the reason they get it isit's natural law.
How'd you go from 32 to 35?
(21:49):
Uh, while I was writing thebook, uh, which began in 95, as
you know, I was still doing workand I discovered three more.
I just included the men.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Before we go on to that, uh, why did you want to
help people?
I was born that way.
You just did people as a child,and you're like, I can help
this.
SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
Well, if you take a look at the scale of basic
purposes, how would a personbehave if we were at certain
levels?
That's not hard to figure out.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
If you don't mind, let's go into I'm an average
person.
I have uh recurring themes in mylife that I want to change.
And I pick up your book.
Now understand that as anaverage person, I would still
say that the average personwould have a hard time
comprehending it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
All right.
So let me clarify that for you.
There are 12 axioms of septemicsthat are on the whole site, if
you want to see them.
One of the axioms is when aperson is high on any scale,
it's because he's insightful inthat area.
And when a person is low on anyscale, it's because he lacks
(22:56):
insight in that area.
So if a person lacks insight ina certain area and you show him
the scale, it's just gonna begobbledygook to him.
Right, right.
But a person that's high in thatscale, he's gonna look, oh, I
see.
SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
Different scale.
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
And a perfect example of this is Bill Clinton.
Everybody knows who's beenpaying attention for 35 years,
that he's a brilliant person.
He was a road scholar.
Listen to him speak.
He's a smart, even his opponentsand his enemies admit how smart
he is.
Yeah.
But also, equally well known isthe fact that he's a serial
(23:32):
abuser of women.
Right.
So uh if you go to the scale ofhuman ability in his profession,
he is very high in that scale.
I'm not giving any levels.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
But if you go to the scale of sexuality, he's got to
be near the bottom.
Right.
So all these women sued him.
SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
You see?
If he was really looking at yourbook, though, he you feel he
would um understand those scalesbetter than maybe other scales?
SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
Well, in general, people understand certain scales
better than others, and it'sbecause of the person.
And the main factor is the onethat I just told you, which is
how high is the person on thatscale.
So let's say you take a guywho's a drug dealer, an addict,
and a wife beater, right?
He is at or near the bottom ofall of these scales.
(24:23):
Right.
That's why he's like that.
He's not gonna read this book.
Right.
But even if he did read thebook, he wouldn't understand it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Touche.
Just even by saying the factthat he wouldn't read the book,
it just kind of answers myquestion, right?
Like only people who are goingto want to understand this about
themselves and the world andtheir relationships would be
reading this book.
Right.
Could somebody use these scalesto manipulate other people?
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
The short answer is no, and I'll tell you why.
This book is for anyone who canread English reasonably well and
wants to improve himself orothers.
Anyone who wants to improveherself or others is not going
to be into manipulating people.
The people who want tomanipulate people, like Joseph
Goebbels, Hitler, his whole jobwas to manipulate people.
(25:08):
Right?
He's not a potential septemicistbecause he was not about helping
himself or helping others.
All right.
He was about manipulatingpeople.
So, what we know is there areall kinds of groups of people
who are not going to useseptemics, psychopaths,
sociopaths, serial murderers,corrupt politicians, uh,
(25:31):
ignoramuses, morons.
There's lots of groups of peoplewho, if they do bother to read
the book, won't understand it atall.
And in some cases, even if theydo understand it, they won't
apply it because it's contraryto their way of life.
This is about uplifting people.
Do you think the Nazis wereabout uplifting people?
(25:52):
Obviously not.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
Yeah, they would have burned your book.
Would somebody reading the bookmove them up?
Just the mere fact that theyread the book move them up on
any of the scales.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
Would happen.
SPEAKER_02 (26:04):
Yeah, I would imagine so, right?
Because, like you said, withthat person, once they got the
knowledge that they, you know,the way that they perceived
women or whatever the case maybe, it then allowed them to go
date that guy, that story thatyou gave in the beginning,
right?
Just the simple knowledgesometimes helps people move.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Sometimes the guy reads and says, Oh, I see, I'm
right here, I'm at level three.
Explains me exactly.
See, that's uh a type ofenlightenment that he gets.
He is now a smarter person, andthat smartness carries forward
into everything else he does inhis life.
So, what you get with this bookis a virtuous cycle where the
(26:43):
more you use it, the smarter youget.
The smarter you get, the easieryou use, the more you use it,
and the more you use it, thesmarter you get.
So the sky is the limit.
If you live a thousand years,you will still be using this
book.
SPEAKER_02 (26:56):
So the conspira the conspiracy theorists in me would
be that they that they, the bigthey, wouldn't want people to
have this knowledge because themore you know about yourself,
the better you become, the moreknowledgeable you become, the
less you can be controlled.
I say that in the book.
Okay.
So I like I say in the book, I'mvery I'm very glad it's killed
me yet.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like it,yeah, exactly.
(27:19):
Okay.
I would I I believe when wespoke, I asked if people could
work with you, but you said mostpeople have to work with you
physically because of thebiometrics.
Is that true?
SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
So there's so me living and you living where you
live, you and I could not worktogether because I can't
physically unless I go travel toyou, work be on your biometric
machine.
Or I could travel to you.
One more question before we go,if you don't mind.
Do you believe in that we're allvibrational, primarily
vibrational energy beings?
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
I have no beliefs.
Belief is only necessary whenknowledge is absent.
Reason I went to school for 28years and meditated for 40 years
is to get knowledge.
So I don't have to believe inanything.
In other words, it's aboutperception.
Yeah.
There's a scale of belief, and Italk about this in there.
(28:08):
That scale is very specific asit goes from belief down to
disbelief.
Disbelief is really nutty.
I mean, you cannot convince thatperson of anything because
they're in disbelief.
Doesn't matter what you say,they don't believe it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
You're an interesting human.
I'm sure that you know this inmany different ways.
I love it.
I think that that you have avery gifted mind.
I'm grateful for um one for youcoming on, obviously, because
then people can use this book toum better themselves in their
life.
I guess better is not a bettergood word for it, but that's
(28:43):
kind of what I'm gonna say.
Better is good.
Yeah, I like better.
Okay.
And um, I will give everybodytheir your information on how to
um find you.
But can you just give us a briefsummary?
If somebody's interested in you,I know you've been on a
ridiculous amount of podcasts.
How can they learn more?
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
I would invite your viewers to my website, which is
septemics.com, where you can seewhat many readers have said,
what many journalists havewritten.
You can read sections of thebook itself, you can read the
reviews, and you can even listento, if you wish, a pre-recorded
introduction to septemics thatexplains it to you in 15
(29:21):
minutes.
Love that.
I think that that would be greatfor people to do.
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
This isn't a book that you sit down and put on
your nightstanding, you readwhen you have an extra few
minutes.
For those that are watching,like in my book, I have all
these like printouts of stuffwhere I'm writing down my things
so that I can compare things andthis, this, and that.
Like this is this is moreacademic uh kind of thing.
You need to really uh put theeffort into it if you want to
see and understand and get theresults.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
What I tell everybody is this is a textbook
on an entirely new subject.
So study it the way you wouldstudy a chemistry text, a
physics text, a biology text, amath text.
Never go past anything.
Use the glossaries, use adictionary, talk to people.
Don't go past anything that youdon't understand.
And when you get to the end,then come back to the beginning,
(30:05):
read it again, and find yourlevel on every scale.
And if you do that, you will be,by the time you finish, you will
be a new person.
SPEAKER_02 (30:14):
Yeah.
And that's what I've learned.
Like, I that I'm gonna have togo back through this, right?
Because like it was like aforeign language, and I read it
for the first time or read itfor the first time, right?
You know, uh kind of understandwhat we're talking about now.
I'm gonna have to go back andlook at it again and re-evaluate
it based on that.
Yeah, perfect.
I appreciate you.
Um, and we thank you for comingon.
(30:36):
And uh again, as I I go throughthe process, I'm sure that I
would like to have you back.
Okay, I'll be glad to come back.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time.
If this story spoke to you,let's keep the healing going.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Visit Barbie Moreno.com for my online course,
Awakening Your Worth in HealingEnergy Sessions, one on one
coaching, and your free healingguide.
SPEAKER_02 (30:58):
Your next step is waiting.
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