In this episode of Fulbright Forward, Jeremy Gombin-Sperling, the Fulbright Diversity and Inclusion Liaison for Western Hemisphere Programs continues the conversation on English and language teaching in the Western Hemisphere with Bilingual Educator and alumna of the Fulbright English Teaching Assistant Program in Ecuador, Meilin Chong. During the episode, Meilin shares how her experiences as a biracial Latina woman of Peruvian and Chinese heritage have informed how she understands the world, and the changes she believes need to happen in order to create more inclusive and equitable spaces for folks of color, as well as multiracial and multilingual communities.
Part of this discussion also revolves around a concept that Meilin introduces early on, the idea of "I refuse to choose." While this idea originally stems from a book by Barbara Shur of the same name on career development, our conversation takes the idea to more complex understandings. As Meilin will discuss, "refuse to choose" can also be about interrupting power such as in breaking assumptions abroad that the only people who can claim to be from the United States and/or teach English are white, or as she has done in her teaching, fostering spaces where young children of color from linguistic backgrounds others than English can celebrate and be celebrated for the many languages and cultures that make them who they are.
See below for resources and references discussed in the podcast episode:
- Barbara Shur: Refuse to Choose
- Overview of Bilingual Education in the United States
- "Color Esperanza" by Diego Torres
- Article exploring socioeconomic impacts of white families on bilingual immersion programs in U.S.
- Blog article on intercultural bilingual education in Latin America (Spanish)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sper (00:08):
Welcome to another episode of Fulbright
Forward, a Diversity Podcast. Myname is Jeremy Gombin-Sperling,
the Fulbright Diversity andInclusion Liaison for the
Western Hemisphere Programs.
Today's episode of the podcastis number five from the Western
Hemisphere region and the secondof two episodes focused on
unpacking English and LanguageTeaching. In this episode, we
speak with Meilin Chong, abilingual Spanish-English
(00:29):
educator currently in Boston,Massachusetts, and also a former
English Teaching Assistant in LaMan, Ecuador, where she taught
from 2017 to 2018. A key themeof my conversation with Meilin
is the phrase and idea "I refuseto choose." Now the phrase
itself as we discussed, thisepisode comes from a book by
Barbara Sher with the same name"Refuse to Choose." In the book,
(00:50):
Sher encourages her readers notto press one passion over the
other in pursuing their career,but rather to follow a path that
allows all of our interests tobe part of our lives. mean
however, brings the meaning ofthis phrase to important and
critical places, in particularas an engine for greater
inclusion and support formultiracial, multicultural and
multilingual people. As Meilinnotes from her own experiences a
(01:14):
biracial Latina woman of Chineseand Peruvian heritage, who
immigrated from Peru to the U.S.
at a young age, she'sexperienced many moments where
the world around her either hastried to force her to compress
or hide the abundance ofidentities, or force the same on
others who hold similaridentities and lived
experiences. Refusing to choosetherefore, in this context, and
(01:36):
forming lean is more than anembrace of one's passions, but
rather a declaration to theworld that we will not hide the
complexity of who we are for thecomfort of others, or even to
fit with what social orders andhierarchies assume as to be or
tell us to be. As Meilin willdiscuss, this is about breaking
assumptions abroad that the onlypeople who can claim to be from
the United States and/or teachEnglish are white, or as she has
(01:59):
done in her teaching, fosteringspaces where young children
raised in a language in ourculture different from the
dominant one can celebrate andbe celebrated for the many
languages and cultures theybring, that they are very much
more than enough. Refusetochoose is therefore a call to
upset power. And in today'sepisode, that means a
conversation on identity,English teaching and the impact
(02:21):
of whiteness in the WesternHemisphere.
Meilin, it's great to have youhere. Welcome so much to the
podcast. Welcome so much toFulbright Forward.
Meilin Chong (02:29):
Thank you so much, Jeremy. It's really nice to be
here.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (02:33):
So with our episodes, we usually
like to start with a prettysimple question just to get to
know a little bit more aboutyou. So if you could just tell
us more about who Meilinis yourbackground and just who you are.
Meilin Chong (02:44):
Sure. So my name is Meilin Chong, and I am a
bilingual, biracial,multicultural, immigrant from
Peru. I immigrated in 2002, andI actually am Peruvian Chinese.
I graduated from WheelockCollege in 2017 with a
(03:07):
Bachelor's in Psychology.
College is really interesting,because not only did we have to
have a actual Bachelor's Degree,but also a professional career.
So I also got my Massachusettsteaching license in Early
Childhood Education. So I cameup with like two careers there.
Then after that, I actually didmy Fulbright, and when I was
about to come back, I was like,"Well, let me invest in more
(03:28):
schooling, apparently". So Iactually went to U Penn,
University of Pennsylvania formy MS.Ed in International
Education Development. As youcan see, my life is pretty much
like a mixture of all interestsand identities. For me, it's
really hard to choose one path.
(03:51):
And it's always been difficultto just like find one passion,
and so instead I choose themall. And I actually like to
reference, I refuse to choose,that book. I just really believe
that everyone has differentpassions and different
spectrums, and it's good topursue them. So that's me in a
nutshell.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperlin (04:11):
What brought you to pursue an English
Teaching Assistant post, anETA-ship in Ecuador, and what
were your goals, intentions andapplying?
Meilin Chong (04:20):
Yeah, so it's very, very, very complex,
actually. So I'm a firstgeneration college student,
first person to ever explore acollege or higher ed. And that
was very difficult at Wheelock.
So luckily, I'm very, veryfortunate. I actually found a
really important mentor in mylife. His name is Dr. Adrian
(04:45):
Haugabrook. He showed medifferent things like different
experiences that I could take onat Wheelock, post-Wheelock, he
told me about a Masters which Iwas like, what the heck is a
masters? So...I was, yeah, I wasvery much very, very lucky to
have that mentor. And junioryear. So in 2016, I actually, we
(05:08):
had our weekly or monthly checkins. And I was sitting in the
dining hall with him, and Iremember him saying, or asking
me like, what are you going todo next year after you graduate?
And I was like, I don't know.
And I think back then I was verymuch always a planner. Like, I
(05:30):
had to have a plan A throughlike Z, because I always feared
of not knowing what would comenext. But when he asked me, I
was so lost, because I was like,well, I could do teaching, I
could do City Year could do,etc. And then he was like, "Wait
a second. How about you try oneof these grants?" And he showed
me a Rhodes Scholars, Fulbright.
He showed me like a lot ofdifferent grants that I had no
(05:53):
idea. For me, when I, when hefirst told me about it, it was
very much like an alternative.
Like, I didn't really think ofit as like, that's what I want
to do, because of thecompetition, actually. So I
feared that competition, sinceit's so so prestige, right? As
silly as it sounds, I think Ididn't really know what I was
(06:14):
getting myself into, so I wasjust like, let's just go like,
eh, whatever happens, happens!But I think my goals changed
every month. No joke. I thinkwhen I was like, introduced to
it, I was like, Oh, yeah, like,I want to do this for myself,
because this is such likeanother accompli- accomplishment
that I could get. And then whenI started the application
(06:35):
process, and so how intense itwas, I was like, Okay, why am I
really doing this? And at thatmoment, I think it was like,
Okay, this is going to be a goodexperience, like the application
process, understanding likethese really intense application
processes for jobs for like,later just experiences that I
(06:57):
will have. And then while I hadto write my personal statement,
I realized that I was thinkingreally vague. And then I was so
naive to like everything thatcould come. So I was like, so
centered around this idea of,well, this is going to be life
changing, not only for you, butfor them.
(07:19):
When I received that letter, andthat said, I got it, I was like
wait a second, like, this isbigger than me, this is bigger
than what I thought myintentions were. And now I
really need to buckle down andreally understand and have
realistic expectations andintentions for myself. So I knew
(07:40):
that I wasn't going to bechanging lives, and that I was
going to be making massivechanges. But instead, I think my
main goal, right before I left,actually to go to Ecuador was to
create ripple effects, inperspective, whatever that meant
cultural, racial, anything, anyany any perspective, which will
(08:06):
inherently then change mine,right? So I saw more of that
cultural exchange and thatFulbright really highlights in
their program.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (08:17):
So before we go into any sort of
other questions, just to givefolks context listening to the
podcast, like take us to whereyou were in Ecuador, like the
town, the school, thepopulation, the community, if
you could just like in yourwords or your experience, like
provide kind of that context forwher- where you were throughout
your grant.
Meilin Chong (08:37):
I went to a small town called La Man. La Man is
in the valle, the valley, soit's legit three hours from
Latacunga, que est en laSierra, y two hours from the
coastline. I was in the middleof both environments, which
(09:01):
created this really really humidenvironment which I was so not
used to. So that was a big shockcoming in from like the freezing
cold Sierra and then I'msuddenly, like I was, "Wow!" It
was so hot, but very, very, veryknit like tight knit community.
There was one university there.
It was actually an extension. Sothe main Universidad de Cotopaxi
(09:23):
is in Latacunga, Ecuador, andthe extension, one of the
extensions, is in La Man.
Because it was legit a collegecommunity, basically, everyone
knew each other. It was reallyhard to go somewhere without
like, people be like, Oh, I knowyour mom.like what? Okay, yeah,
(09:46):
it was a very, very smallcommunity. It was very difficult
for me from coming from a cityto go into a small town. It was
very, I think the cultural shockthat I received was not like the
Spanish, the Hispanic, it wasmore of like, context of
(10:06):
community. Like, I hadn't beenin a small community in a really
long time and it just shocked methat I couldn't go anywhere
without like people being like,Oh, "Hola, cmo ests? Hola,
Meilin!" Okay, please stop, Iwas like overload. So that took
a while to get used to. Theweather really impacted my
health, actually, my mentalhealth because I wasn't, I'm not
(10:29):
a hot, like a humid hot person,like I really just like the
cold. And because it was sosmall and close to the Andes, I
was actually able to explore alot of Quichua community. I was
very immersed into that. A lotof my students were actually
from Quichua background. And I,that was just amazing. For me, I
(10:54):
was able to explore a whole newculture within the mestizo
communities, right? And yeah,that was just a nice little gift
that I got, speciallylogistically. So.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperlin (11:06):
What was it like for you just
navigating your identities,while in Ecuador? I mean, really
thinking just in particular,about if you want to talk about
anyone, anyone in particular,that sort of stands out for you,
but really just want tounderstand more of like, what
was it like for you just sort ofnavigating a culture and
community that in some ways, itsounded felt familiar to you,
and as you named also had thesenuances and differences, and
(11:28):
also was a new role, being ateacher, being part of also in
some ways, kind of becoming partof a community, even if just for
a year or so. So I'm verycurious what it was like for you
to navigate Meilin in this sortof relatively sort of similar
yet different contexts andplace?
Meilin Chong (11:44):
Well, first, I think I want to go down the road
that no one really prepared mefor this, and me as in a person
of color. My identity, I havenever really settled and I still
grapple with understanding who Iam. That for sure. And that
route really just affects mypositionality within every
(12:08):
context, because I think it's,was after Fulbright that I
really started to understand whoI am and started to love who I
am. No one really prepared me tounderstand what others thought
of American, right, as like anationality. People coming from
(12:30):
America, how shocking thatreverse culture shock is for
them to not see a whiteAmerican. Yeah, I was not
prepared for that. For, for justall the experiences that I had
in Ecuador. From my perspective,as the peruana that I identify
(12:50):
more with, I was so elated beingin Ecuador. I was like, oh,
estoy hablando espaol, I amable to eat certain foods like
que chvere, no? Estaba con que.
Yeah, finally. Things that canBoston sometimes just very
overwhelming with like the justthe city and the lack of
Hispanics here. So, s, Estababien feliz. But unfortunately,
(13:16):
something you can't really seein this podcast is that I'm not
visibly, what people wouldidentify as Hispanic or
Peruvian, right, what people seeis the Asian in me. And that is
what was extremely difficult andcomplex to manage in Ecuador.
The fact that they wereexpecting this white American,
(13:38):
which actually is what this LaMan had for the two years
before I was there. All threeFulbright ETAs were white
Americans. I actually rememberthe first day I walked in, and
the professor introduced me. Iremember him saying like, sta
(13:59):
va a ser nuestra Fulbright ETA.
Por favor, like, welcome her andeveryone's face was like, she is
going to be teaching us English?
And I was like, wait, what? Iwas so shocked. I was like, why
can't I teach English? So thatfirst day, it was a really like
(14:21):
a slap in the face like, okay,they were not expecting me to
come here. And from that day on,actually, there was a lot, a lot
of rude comments,microexpressions, jokes,
misconceptions that wereextremely hard to break or even
make that ripple a change inperspective. Not only was that
(14:45):
my Asian identity and myHispanic background, but also
the immigrant. Once I told themthat I was an immigrant in the
United States, that I immigratedfrom Peru, it was less valid,
like, they did not see me assomeone that could actually
teach them English. And theydoubted a lot of my ability to
(15:06):
teach them. They always askedme, "are you sure that's how you
say it?" Or like, "should welike, look up a video instead?"
And yeah, that was really hard.
I think it was after they reallygot to know me and who I was
that they were able to becomfortable with me teaching
(15:28):
them. Also, being a female waspretty hard. In this small
community, I think the theculture itself of the machismo
and piropos that are okay. Andthat was very, very tough to
navigate to being that Chinesefemale really puts me in this
(15:53):
like exotic, which I hate thatword, but in that exotic, I
guess, perspective in theirmind. Right? So that was the
most hardest personal dilemmathat I had. But yeah, I really
don't think and talking to otherFulbrighters, who are also
People of Color, I really don'tthink that that we were
(16:15):
prepared, we were told that whatthey were expecting was white
Americans, and these likesystemic waves of stress that we
all like got where we weren'treally supported when we talked
about it. Because I think allthree of us, all three
Fulbrighters of Color, were veryvocal about it in that like we
(16:37):
really felt not in place. So myLatin American culture was
definitely not seen.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (16:44):
I first want to say, I appreciate
you sharing that, because I'msure-- it sounds like it brings
you back to a time of course, itsounds like had a lot of really
wonderful experience, but alsolike pain, hurt, navigating
things, questioning who you are.
So what what for you were eitheror strategies or ways that you
found to support yourself, andyou know, to build a community
that you know, allowed you toshow up in your fullness?
Meilin Chong (17:08):
That's a really great question. And I don't
think I had strategies At first,I think um-- I maybe I did have
a strategy but maybe not likereally self care, but my mom
always says like, "Siempre serturca, Meilin. Porque las turcas
agarron lo que quieren . No. Andto just like, quickly, kind of
(17:32):
interpret that is like, alwaysbe stubborn. No? Like, if you're
stubborn, then something willget done. I think that's what I
was trying to do.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperlin (17:40):
Good stubbornness!
Meilin Chong (17:41):
Good stubbornness, there you go. But yeah. So I
that's what I was trying to do,I think good every
microexpression that I received,like, "ay chinita, ven aqu," o,
uh, "qu china!". All thesechina, china, china! I think
that's the word that I heard themost, in the month that I was
(18:02):
there. With everyone that came,I started to get really angry
with myself, because I thinkI've always had difficulty
accepting that I'm Asian becauseof all of these racist comments
that I've been confronted with,since I immigrated to the U.S.
(18:24):
Because Latin America has islike invisible racist, right?
But like, there is racism. And,I, my dad always experienced
racism in, in, in Peru. It wasvery, like accepted. I guess
that's a word, right? Like ifsomeone called you "chinito",
that's a form of endearment.
When I was when I was like, toldall these jokes and
(18:50):
microexpressions in Ecuador, Iwas like, "No, Meilin! Ser
turca!" Like, like, you can talkto them about this. Like, like,
say something that will changetheir perspective, or that will
open their perspective and thatit's okay to be biracial, and
explain to them like yourstruggles, like growing up in
Peru and moving on and dadada.
(19:11):
But then after I realized that,me solely me was not able to
change that thought right away,or, at least in that year that I
was there and I finally acceptedthat it was going to take more
than just me. I, yeah, I justtook them and let it slide. I, I
(19:32):
guess this is where theself-care came in, where I
started to make a community formy own of Fulbrighters and, and
really people that I cared aboutin La Man and I was able to
just reflect, right, and writestuff down and and share about
these experiences with the otherFulbrighters of Color and I
(19:52):
think that was my biggest mentalhealth strategy, to write
everything out and document it.
And I think that just made me astronger person. And like I
mentioned before, because ofEcuador. I now am like, happier
with who I am as amulticultural, multilingual
self. So I'm grateful and thissounds like kind of silly, but
(20:16):
I'm grateful for all of thosepainful times because I now more
comfortable with myself and Ilook at myself and I'm like,
"Yeah! Bueno, s. Soy china. Yqu?" Like, I love it. So yeah,
I think those were my self-care,which I should have done more
for myself. But I think it wasvery difficult, very difficult
trying to navigate everythingand think of what to do for
(20:39):
myself, so. Yeah.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (20:43):
I think about a lot with programs
is, you know, it's always goingto be impossible to eliminate
every moment of discomfort, lackof safety, even sometimes, and
even, you know, micro,microexpressive, microaggressive
behavior. And we have aresponsibility in speaking about
programs to ensure that folksare best supported to best
navigate those situations, youknow? So, I think that's
(21:05):
something I think about justeven with your story, that it's
like, appreciating what youlearn at the same time being
like, there could have also beenmuch more done.
Meilin Chong (21:13):
Yeah, yeah. And I think now that you bring that
up, it's more of like Latinosand Latinx, right, communities.
We are s--. There's no look forus. And I strongly believe that
I really think that mestizostend to be the ones who are
identi-.Like, if you look atmestizo, like, yeah, Latino,
(21:36):
right, or Latinx. Pero? No, Ithink it's really hard to
pinpoint, and Latino and aLatinx, Latine etc. And I think
that is what hasn't come intoconversation into dialogue that
is missing, once that is likereally poked at and explored, I
(21:59):
really think that like, there'sgoing to be a lot more, just a
lot more acceptance, a lot moreof like, realizing that this has
always been our culture. And inour identities, like there's
been so many historical eventsthat have made Latinx who they
are. The fact that more of me,are being born, I think is the
(22:25):
important thing. Like morebiracial, more mixed, more
multiracial children are beingborn every single time. I mean,
in my classroom, I have fourchildren who are biracial. When
I was in school, I was the onlyone who was biracial. I think
(22:45):
that shift, as an educator,that's my main goal. Once I am
able to accept and talk aboutthese and both, I will then open
up the space for these childrenwho are growing up in a more, I
guess, open to discussionenvironment than I have. Having
to navigate that myself and notbelonging right now to any group
(23:12):
that I choose to be because I'mnot enough, that I don't want
that to happen to the childrenthat I'm teaching right now,
tha,t that they can't be blackenough, they can't be white
enough. They can't be Italianenough, they can't be whatever,
multilingual enough because theymix up their languages, etc. So
that I think that that's thebiggest thing that I am
(23:34):
grappling with myself and that Ican deal with but I don't want
the same struggle that I havebeen through to be as intense
for the younger generations.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (23:45):
I'm curious about all this stuff
with language because I'd loveto know more about you as you're
bilingual teacher self. So whatfor you does bilingual education
mean to you as a teacher and asa person?
Meilin Chong (23:59):
I came to the U.S.
and I was what we in theresearch field called "sink or
swim" English education, right?
So like, I was literally throwninto a first grade classroom,
and I can tell you that I hatedit. I cried every single day, I
(24:20):
did not want to go to school.
And that was very traumatic. AndI think that's another reason
why I don't necessarily loveteaching English to foreign
countries, which is something Iforgot to mention, but going
into the Fulbright ETA was toughfor me linguistically because of
what I just said. I was, Iapplied to an ETA, but I was
(24:45):
like, "Ugh, I'm going againsteverything I believe in." You
know, like, I'm going againstthat like power that English has
the one that like completelythrew me off and affected my
family dynamics, affected my,like socioeconomic status, like,
it affected everything right? Soto me bilingual education is a
(25:09):
form of empowering, if doneright, form of empowering the
target language group, notnecessarily racial, right
because just because someonespeaks Spanish at home does not
mean they're Hispanic. So,empowering those students more
than giving that elitebilingualism to the white
(25:32):
children. So, that is mypersonal goal as a bilingual
educator, that I want to givethat voice and-- not voice,
sorry. I'm gonna go back. I wantto give that space to have them
use their own voice inempowering themselves in this
English dominant society that wehave.
It's really hard. I'm not surehow to to manage this yet as I
(25:59):
am only a first year likeofficial teacher. How to make
sure that my Lat-, Latinxchildren don't fall behind even
in a place where they aresupposed to shine because of the
power that comes with English,the power that comes with
whiteness in that setting. Thechildren may not necessarily see
(26:23):
it, or they may see it but notnecessarily label it, right?
They may not be like Oh, thoseblanquitos like are getting more
attention or reading faster. Itmay be over their heads in
labeling it but they see it andI was just talking to my partner
teacher about this that we'redoing a little like show and
(26:45):
we're putting on the song "ColorEsperanza." I don't know if you
know that song but "ColorEsperanza." I don't remember the
singer, but a lot of families--
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperli (26:56):
We'll link the song no matter what.
Meilin Chong (26:57):
Yeah, we will do it! Oh, there we go, Diego
Torres. And this is a really oldsong. This is a really important
story that we were talking aboutbecause these Hispanic and
Latinx children, once they heardthat song Jeremy, they're like,
"mi familia sabe esta cancion.
Nosotros la cantamos! Ms.
(27:22):
Meilin!" And they were so happyJeremy. They were dancing salsa.
They were just living theirculture in this Boston, like
very white community in theSouth End. I was like, so happy
to hear that. And you could seethat the other children were put
in this position ofuncomfortableness. They were
(27:44):
like, "Oh, I don't know thissong. Like, what is this? Like?
Why am I listening to this?" Youknow? That right there was one
of the best moments in my careerso far, where I saw that these
Latinx children were able toboom, like, full themselves with
energy, grab these whitechildren, start dancing with
(28:05):
them, teaching them what theirculture is all about, a little
piece of who they are. And nowyou walk into that classroom,
put that song in, everyone issinging. Everyone's learning the
song. Everyone's learning how tosalsa. We're learning the
importance of what the songmeans. That is a little piece of
(28:25):
like, what I would love to seemore of, and later on, like when
I'm teaching down the line orjust in the world, right? And
not. In putting these like whitechildren in these spaces of
uncomfortableness so that theycan learn more and have more
respect. Because that is what'smissing, the respect of
cultures. They are so young thatthey see this as an experience,
(28:49):
right? They're so young thatthey're like. "Oh, s, tengo
compaeros que son Latinx.
Great! Chvere!" But thosemoments where they are
uncomfortable, where they'relike struggling to learn the
language, those are the momentsthat I want to see more of, and
to see the Latinx children justlike be so happy about learning
and--
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (29:12):
I think it's amazing. And I think
it's something that we need, ifagain, the goals are things of
inclusion of racial equity, oflinguistic equity, there's a lot
that needs to be done. You know,as a white person to acknowledge
that whiteness does transcendborders, that whiteness has
these sort of impacts even justwhat you just named, right?That
like bilingual education, not asa way further add opportunity
(29:35):
and asset just to whitechildren, but rather as a
community tool, and a community.
Meilin Chong (29:41):
Yeah
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sp (29:41):
practice.
So just curious if there'sanything you'd like to say more
just on this concept of how--And maybe this! How whiteness
really intersects with theseeducational experiences you had,
and also, but I think. What Iwould say is education is a tool
for social justice or socialchange, how whiteness can
actually hurt that possibly.
Meilin Chong (30:01):
I don't know if you know this Jeremy, but
bilingual education in the U.S.
was, like illegal. And weweren't able to have these
spaces where you can speak adifferent language besides
English. So now that they'relike, kind of re-coming back
and, and really settling downyet without a lot of resources.
Like I have to translate a lotof stuff, right and, and
(30:24):
translating that is anotherexample of whiteness, because,
and English power because we'retaking these, like white culture
ideas and just like oh, yeah,are translating, because we
don't have enough time, we don'thave enough resources. So that
in itself is a littledisappointing because we're not
giving again, that space forthat voice for that authentic
(30:46):
text for that authentic culturalshare. And instead we're
labeling it as bilingualeducation, whereas it's more of
like, yep, we're reallystruggling to teach you,
Spanish, all of you, and reallytrying to empower with the
little resources we have.
It's very interesting, Jeremy,to see bilingual education here,
(31:10):
but lingual education in othercountries and try to understand
that even though bilingualeducation is seen as a great
thing, a lot of the timesbilingual education is masked by
these really, like I said,really interesting policies that
favor one or the other.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (31:31):
Yes
Meilin Chong (31:32):
Like groups, right? If you go to like Puno,
Peru, the Quechua-Spanishbilingual education is
interesting in itself, becausealthough they want to revive and
revitalize this beautifullanguage, it's still grounded
within that, "Oh, yes, we can dothat. But we still need to give
(31:53):
them that Spanish!" And theydon't really realize that it's
okay. It's okay to not speakSpanish. Obviously like, there's
pros and cons to learning andleaving language behind. But
these languages that carrypower, like Spanish and Latin
America, English in the wholeworld, like, it doesn't give
space for others to really tomake those languages as powerful
(32:19):
as English, right? And I thinkthis is like a cyclical effect.
Like, we keep saying, There's notext in Quechua, there's no text
in Spanish, there's no resourcesin Spanish for bla bla bla.
Well, why? Hello! It's becausewe're not giving that academic
Spanish, that academic Quechuaenough power to then give text,
(32:42):
to then provide these resources.
So it's going to be like acyclical thing that we're going
through. And until we give thosepower, that power to those
languages, and then those textscan be produced. Then that way,
it'll like kind of, whicj willnever be equal. But I think I'll
give more leverage to thoselanguages. Right? So,
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperli (33:02):
Yeah!
Cydni Gordon (33:02):
Y es el privilegio, no? El privilege que
trae porque. Like mis padresdidn't have that privilege.
They're so hard working. They'reso intelligent. They are so
resilient. Pero, el ingls?
That's what like was sodifficult, right? They came to a
new country had no idea how tospeak English, what like, what
(33:24):
to do, and they didn't have achoice. They didn't have a
choice, like many, you know,monolingual like English
speakers who are like, yep, I'mgonna find English everywhere.
It's like, great, great for you.
Pero, most of the world comesand they're lost, because it's
not. It's not a language they'refamiliar with. So este
(33:45):
privilegio is something thatI'm-- I guess that's what is
rooted within me that I don'twant to continue, like fostering
this English power. And I'mlike, let's do other things, you
know, so. But yeah.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (33:58):
We ask this question. This podcast
is named Fullbright, Forward.
The intentionality there's thatthere is always more we can
learn and unlearn and keepdoing. From your perspective,
what do you think about when Iwhen I asked the question like,
from your experience, what canwe do to keep moving fullbright
forward?
Meilin Chong (34:19):
The first thing that I-- I actually am talking
to some Fulbrighters about rightnow is, how can we as an alumni
community come together tocreate initiatives to create
these spaces of dialogue, tocontinue talking about race, and
People of or Fulbrighters ofColor in the world? And how to
(34:45):
normalize the idea thatAmericans aren't white
Americans. So that is somethingthat we're actually in, pursuing
as well. We're trying to reallyjust talk to more Latinx
Fulbrighters and and start that,like snowball effect. I also
(35:09):
think that Commissions could doa lot more by reaching out to
their alumni, and asking, like,really understanding like, I see
this very much as in like myMaster's degree where it's like,
this is a research thing aswell, right? Like there needs to
be some sort of needsassessment, monitoring and
(35:32):
evaluation and not so much like,"Great we dropped you here,"
which is what a lot ofdevelopment work is. We drop it
here, you do what you have todo, you leave, goodbye, you're
done. And that lack of followthrough is really impeding a lot
of growth, which a lot of thegrowth that we can be doing is
(35:53):
very quick, right? Like, we canliterally just start with
dialogues really quickly,because there's so many of us
when continuing but I reallythink that commission should
really reach out to their alumniand, and understand what
happened in their experience,understand where the gaps in
learning, and have some actionsteps to continue growth in
(36:15):
Fulbright. But and thetresources to. I know that like,
where the resources are givento, who has what, and if more
resources could be going toprograms like yours, where you
were talking about diversity,that would be amazing, right? So
like, having these initiatives Ithink, I think could help a
(36:37):
lot. So definitely with backedup research, I'm a big
researcher fan as well, Jeremy.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (36:43):
And finally, like, Is there anything
you'd like to say just inclosing out the episode, if
there's something that you wouldwant other folks interested in
Fulbright interestedinternational experiences, that
may share identity experiencewith you or not just if there's
anything in particular, youwould like to share with folks,
and if there's an audience youhave in mind who they are, as we
close out this episode.
Meilin Chong (37:04):
I think my biggest learning takeaway is not to put
more work and pressure on Peopleof Color, or especially
Fulbrighters of Color,especially alumni. But I think
as much as we want for things tochange, it's also kind of, I see
it as my responsibility to talkto these first generation People
(37:28):
or Students of Color. Because ifmy mentor had not been there for
me, I would not have known aboutFulbright. And I think it's very
important for us to share ourexperiences, and to just like
have people know, of Fulbright.
Because I can tell you that whenif I go back to my small
hometown in New Hampshire, andthe People of Color there have
(37:49):
no idea what Fulbright is.
Entonces, I think I would reallylike to see us alumni coming
together, and having these talksabout our experience and opening
more opportunities up for peoplewho are like us. I think that
(38:09):
will push more of thisconversation, legit force it by
having more Fulbrighters ofColor in the field, and these
dialogues will enhance and justcome about.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperli (38:22):
Well, Meilin, thank you so much for
your time. I know we've goneover than what we expected, but
I hope, I hope in. My hope isthat it's been for you formative
just in having space to reflecton certain things and also share
really your brilliance aroundwhat I think bilingual education
can be, the power of Englishboth as oppressive and
(38:43):
potentially a place of growth,and I think for us to continue
to think through how we moveFulbright, Forward. So thank you
so much for all that you'veshared about who you are, what
you care about, and you knowthat you refuse to choose.
Meilin Chong (38:57):
Thank you so much for having me, Jeremy.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (38:59):
And that's all for this episode of
Fulbright Forward. Thank you somuch for listening. For a list
of resources mentioned intoday's episode, you can go to
the Fulbright Forward websitehosted on our Buzzsprout page.
Remember also that you cansubscribe to Fulbright Forward
through your favorite podcastapp like Apple podcasts or
Spotify, as well as follow thepodcast on Instagram. After
(39:20):
recording this episode, Ithought a lot about the story
that Meilin shared when she andher co teacher got her students
dancing and singing to the songColor Esperanza. As Meilin
notes. That moment shifted thedynamics of the classroom. And
ultimately, it brought herstudents closer together,
promoted learning, and allowedher Latinx Students of Color to
be seen and heard in ways thatmay have only been felt by the
(39:42):
white students prior. So I askmyself and I ask listeners to
think about this with me. Whatdoes that Color Esperanza moment
look like in our work? What doesit look like to shift the
dynamics of power, privilege andidentity in our spaces in a way
that welcomes discomfort andmoves us towards more collective
strength and community? I knowthat sometimes in work on
(40:03):
diversity, equity inclusion,people can feel as though the
work they are doing has been"wrong" and that our job is now
to do it right? Well, we need toremember that this is not about
right or wrong, but rather aboutdoing things differently if our
goals are towards a morediverse, inclusive and equitable
landscape and whatever field inwhich we work. And this is part
(40:23):
of what I hope we all can takefrom this conversation with
Melin, that those ColorEsperanza moments are perhaps
what we have needed all along.
Again, I'm JeremyGombin-Sperling Fulbright
America's Diversity andInclusion Liaison. Be well stay
safe, and until next time.
Welcome to another episode of Fulbright
Forward, a Diversity Podcast. Myname is Jeremy Gombin-Sperling,
the Fulbright Diversity andInclusion Liaison for the
Western Hemisphere Programs.
Today's episode of the podcastis number five from the Western
Hemisphere region and the secondof two episodes focused on
unpacking English and LanguageTeaching. In this episode, we
speak with Meilin Chong, abilingual Spanish-English
(00:29):
educator currently in Boston,Massachusetts, and also a former
English Teaching Assistant in LaMan, Ecuador, where she taught
from 2017 to 2018. A key themeof my conversation with Meilin
is the phrase and idea "I refuseto choose." Now the phrase
itself as we discussed, thisepisode comes from a book by
Barbara Sher with the same name"Refuse to Choose." In the book,
(00:50):
Sher encourages her readers notto press one passion over the
other in pursuing their career,but rather to follow a path that
allows all of our interests tobe part of our lives. mean
however, brings the meaning ofthis phrase to important and
critical places, in particularas an engine for greater
inclusion and support formultiracial, multicultural and
multilingual people. As Meilinnotes from her own experiences a
(01:14):
biracial Latina woman of Chineseand Peruvian heritage, who
immigrated from Peru to the U.S.
at a young age, she'sexperienced many moments where
the world around her either hastried to force her to compress
or hide the abundance ofidentities, or force the same on
others who hold similaridentities and lived
experiences. Refusing to choosetherefore, in this context, and
(01:36):
forming lean is more than anembrace of one's passions, but
rather a declaration to theworld that we will not hide the
complexity of who we are for thecomfort of others, or even to
fit with what social orders andhierarchies assume as to be or
tell us to be. As Meilin willdiscuss, this is about breaking
assumptions abroad that the onlypeople who can claim to be from
the United States and/or teachEnglish are white, or as she has
(01:59):
done in her teaching, fosteringspaces where young children
raised in a language in ourculture different from the
dominant one can celebrate andbe celebrated for the many
languages and cultures theybring, that they are very much
more than enough. Refusetochoose is therefore a call to
upset power. And in today'sepisode, that means a
conversation on identity,English teaching and the impact
(02:21):
of whiteness in the WesternHemisphere.
Meilin, it's great to have youhere. Welcome so much to the
podcast. Welcome so much toFulbright Forward.
Meilin Chong (02:29):
Thank you so much, Jeremy. It's really nice to be
here.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (02:33):
So with our episodes, we usually
like to start with a prettysimple question just to get to
know a little bit more aboutyou. So if you could just tell
us more about who Meilinis yourbackground and just who you are.
Meilin Chong (02:44):
Sure. So my name is Meilin Chong, and I am a
bilingual, biracial,multicultural, immigrant from
Peru. I immigrated in 2002, andI actually am Peruvian Chinese.
I graduated from WheelockCollege in 2017 with a
(03:07):
Bachelor's in Psychology.
College is really interesting,because not only did we have to
have a actual Bachelor's Degree,but also a professional career.
So I also got my Massachusettsteaching license in Early
Childhood Education. So I cameup with like two careers there.
Then after that, I actually didmy Fulbright, and when I was
about to come back, I was like,"Well, let me invest in more
(03:28):
schooling, apparently". So Iactually went to U Penn,
University of Pennsylvania formy MS.Ed in International
Education Development. As youcan see, my life is pretty much
like a mixture of all interestsand identities. For me, it's
really hard to choose one path.
(03:51):
And it's always been difficultto just like find one passion,
and so instead I choose themall. And I actually like to
reference, I refuse to choose,that book. I just really believe
that everyone has differentpassions and different
spectrums, and it's good topursue them. So that's me in a
nutshell.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperlin (04:11):
What brought you to pursue an English
Teaching Assistant post, anETA-ship in Ecuador, and what
were your goals, intentions andapplying?
Meilin Chong (04:20):
Yeah, so it's very, very, very complex,
actually. So I'm a firstgeneration college student,
first person to ever explore acollege or higher ed. And that
was very difficult at Wheelock.
So luckily, I'm very, veryfortunate. I actually found a
really important mentor in mylife. His name is Dr. Adrian
(04:45):
Haugabrook. He showed medifferent things like different
experiences that I could take onat Wheelock, post-Wheelock, he
told me about a Masters which Iwas like, what the heck is a
masters? So...I was, yeah, I wasvery much very, very lucky to
have that mentor. And junioryear. So in 2016, I actually, we
(05:08):
had our weekly or monthly checkins. And I was sitting in the
dining hall with him, and Iremember him saying, or asking
me like, what are you going todo next year after you graduate?
And I was like, I don't know.
And I think back then I was verymuch always a planner. Like, I
(05:30):
had to have a plan A throughlike Z, because I always feared
of not knowing what would comenext. But when he asked me, I
was so lost, because I was like,well, I could do teaching, I
could do City Year could do,etc. And then he was like, "Wait
a second. How about you try oneof these grants?" And he showed
me a Rhodes Scholars, Fulbright.
He showed me like a lot ofdifferent grants that I had no
(05:53):
idea. For me, when I, when hefirst told me about it, it was
very much like an alternative.
Like, I didn't really think ofit as like, that's what I want
to do, because of thecompetition, actually. So I
feared that competition, sinceit's so so prestige, right? As
silly as it sounds, I think Ididn't really know what I was
(06:14):
getting myself into, so I wasjust like, let's just go like,
eh, whatever happens, happens!But I think my goals changed
every month. No joke. I thinkwhen I was like, introduced to
it, I was like, Oh, yeah, like,I want to do this for myself,
because this is such likeanother accompli- accomplishment
that I could get. And then whenI started the application
(06:35):
process, and so how intense itwas, I was like, Okay, why am I
really doing this? And at thatmoment, I think it was like,
Okay, this is going to be a goodexperience, like the application
process, understanding likethese really intense application
processes for jobs for like,later just experiences that I
(06:57):
will have. And then while I hadto write my personal statement,
I realized that I was thinkingreally vague. And then I was so
naive to like everything thatcould come. So I was like, so
centered around this idea of,well, this is going to be life
changing, not only for you, butfor them.
(07:19):
When I received that letter, andthat said, I got it, I was like
wait a second, like, this isbigger than me, this is bigger
than what I thought myintentions were. And now I
really need to buckle down andreally understand and have
realistic expectations andintentions for myself. So I knew
(07:40):
that I wasn't going to bechanging lives, and that I was
going to be making massivechanges. But instead, I think my
main goal, right before I left,actually to go to Ecuador was to
create ripple effects, inperspective, whatever that meant
cultural, racial, anything, anyany any perspective, which will
(08:06):
inherently then change mine,right? So I saw more of that
cultural exchange and thatFulbright really highlights in
their program.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (08:17):
So before we go into any sort of
other questions, just to givefolks context listening to the
podcast, like take us to whereyou were in Ecuador, like the
town, the school, thepopulation, the community, if
you could just like in yourwords or your experience, like
provide kind of that context forwher- where you were throughout
your grant.
Meilin Chong (08:37):
I went to a small town called La Man. La Man is
in the valle, the valley, soit's legit three hours from
Latacunga, que est en laSierra, y two hours from the
coastline. I was in the middleof both environments, which
(09:01):
created this really really humidenvironment which I was so not
used to. So that was a big shockcoming in from like the freezing
cold Sierra and then I'msuddenly, like I was, "Wow!" It
was so hot, but very, very, veryknit like tight knit community.
There was one university there.
It was actually an extension. Sothe main Universidad de Cotopaxi
(09:23):
is in Latacunga, Ecuador, andthe extension, one of the
extensions, is in La Man.
Because it was legit a collegecommunity, basically, everyone
knew each other. It was reallyhard to go somewhere without
like, people be like, Oh, I knowyour mom.like what? Okay, yeah,
(09:46):
it was a very, very smallcommunity. It was very difficult
for me from coming from a cityto go into a small town. It was
very, I think the cultural shockthat I received was not like the
Spanish, the Hispanic, it wasmore of like, context of
(10:06):
community. Like, I hadn't beenin a small community in a really
long time and it just shocked methat I couldn't go anywhere
without like people being like,Oh, "Hola, cmo ests? Hola,
Meilin!" Okay, please stop, Iwas like overload. So that took
a while to get used to. Theweather really impacted my
health, actually, my mentalhealth because I wasn't, I'm not
(10:29):
a hot, like a humid hot person,like I really just like the
cold. And because it was sosmall and close to the Andes, I
was actually able to explore alot of Quichua community. I was
very immersed into that. A lotof my students were actually
from Quichua background. And I,that was just amazing. For me, I
(10:54):
was able to explore a whole newculture within the mestizo
communities, right? And yeah,that was just a nice little gift
that I got, speciallylogistically. So.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperlin (11:06):
What was it like for you just
navigating your identities,while in Ecuador? I mean, really
thinking just in particular,about if you want to talk about
anyone, anyone in particular,that sort of stands out for you,
but really just want tounderstand more of like, what
was it like for you just sort ofnavigating a culture and
community that in some ways, itsounded felt familiar to you,
and as you named also had thesenuances and differences, and
(11:28):
also was a new role, being ateacher, being part of also in
some ways, kind of becoming partof a community, even if just for
a year or so. So I'm verycurious what it was like for you
to navigate Meilin in this sortof relatively sort of similar
yet different contexts andplace?
Meilin Chong (11:44):
Well, first, I think I want to go down the road
that no one really prepared mefor this, and me as in a person
of color. My identity, I havenever really settled and I still
grapple with understanding who Iam. That for sure. And that
route really just affects mypositionality within every
(12:08):
context, because I think it's,was after Fulbright that I
really started to understand whoI am and started to love who I
am. No one really prepared me tounderstand what others thought
of American, right, as like anationality. People coming from
(12:30):
America, how shocking thatreverse culture shock is for
them to not see a whiteAmerican. Yeah, I was not
prepared for that. For, for justall the experiences that I had
in Ecuador. From my perspective,as the peruana that I identify
(12:50):
more with, I was so elated beingin Ecuador. I was like, oh,
estoy hablando espaol, I amable to eat certain foods like
que chvere, no? Estaba con que.
Yeah, finally. Things that canBoston sometimes just very
overwhelming with like the justthe city and the lack of
Hispanics here. So, s, Estababien feliz. But unfortunately,
(13:16):
something you can't really seein this podcast is that I'm not
visibly, what people wouldidentify as Hispanic or
Peruvian, right, what people seeis the Asian in me. And that is
what was extremely difficult andcomplex to manage in Ecuador.
The fact that they wereexpecting this white American,
(13:38):
which actually is what this LaMan had for the two years
before I was there. All threeFulbright ETAs were white
Americans. I actually rememberthe first day I walked in, and
the professor introduced me. Iremember him saying like, sta
(13:59):
va a ser nuestra Fulbright ETA.
Por favor, like, welcome her andeveryone's face was like, she is
going to be teaching us English?
And I was like, wait, what? Iwas so shocked. I was like, why
can't I teach English? So thatfirst day, it was a really like
(14:21):
a slap in the face like, okay,they were not expecting me to
come here. And from that day on,actually, there was a lot, a lot
of rude comments,microexpressions, jokes,
misconceptions that wereextremely hard to break or even
make that ripple a change inperspective. Not only was that
(14:45):
my Asian identity and myHispanic background, but also
the immigrant. Once I told themthat I was an immigrant in the
United States, that I immigratedfrom Peru, it was less valid,
like, they did not see me assomeone that could actually
teach them English. And theydoubted a lot of my ability to
(15:06):
teach them. They always askedme, "are you sure that's how you
say it?" Or like, "should welike, look up a video instead?"
And yeah, that was really hard.
I think it was after they reallygot to know me and who I was
that they were able to becomfortable with me teaching
(15:28):
them. Also, being a female waspretty hard. In this small
community, I think the theculture itself of the machismo
and piropos that are okay. Andthat was very, very tough to
navigate to being that Chinesefemale really puts me in this
(15:53):
like exotic, which I hate thatword, but in that exotic, I
guess, perspective in theirmind. Right? So that was the
most hardest personal dilemmathat I had. But yeah, I really
don't think and talking to otherFulbrighters, who are also
People of Color, I really don'tthink that that we were
(16:15):
prepared, we were told that whatthey were expecting was white
Americans, and these likesystemic waves of stress that we
all like got where we weren'treally supported when we talked
about it. Because I think allthree of us, all three
Fulbrighters of Color, were veryvocal about it in that like we
(16:37):
really felt not in place. So myLatin American culture was
definitely not seen.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (16:44):
I first want to say, I appreciate
you sharing that, because I'msure-- it sounds like it brings
you back to a time of course, itsounds like had a lot of really
wonderful experience, but alsolike pain, hurt, navigating
things, questioning who you are.
So what what for you were eitheror strategies or ways that you
found to support yourself, andyou know, to build a community
that you know, allowed you toshow up in your fullness?
Meilin Chong (17:08):
That's a really great question. And I don't
think I had strategies At first,I think um-- I maybe I did have
a strategy but maybe not likereally self care, but my mom
always says like, "Siempre serturca, Meilin. Porque las turcas
agarron lo que quieren . No. Andto just like, quickly, kind of
(17:32):
interpret that is like, alwaysbe stubborn. No? Like, if you're
stubborn, then something willget done. I think that's what I
was trying to do.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperlin (17:40):
Good stubbornness!
Meilin Chong (17:41):
Good stubbornness, there you go. But yeah. So I
that's what I was trying to do,I think good every
microexpression that I received,like, "ay chinita, ven aqu," o,
uh, "qu china!". All thesechina, china, china! I think
that's the word that I heard themost, in the month that I was
(18:02):
there. With everyone that came,I started to get really angry
with myself, because I thinkI've always had difficulty
accepting that I'm Asian becauseof all of these racist comments
that I've been confronted with,since I immigrated to the U.S.
(18:24):
Because Latin America has islike invisible racist, right?
But like, there is racism. And,I, my dad always experienced
racism in, in, in Peru. It wasvery, like accepted. I guess
that's a word, right? Like ifsomeone called you "chinito",
that's a form of endearment.
When I was when I was like, toldall these jokes and
(18:50):
microexpressions in Ecuador, Iwas like, "No, Meilin! Ser
turca!" Like, like, you can talkto them about this. Like, like,
say something that will changetheir perspective, or that will
open their perspective and thatit's okay to be biracial, and
explain to them like yourstruggles, like growing up in
Peru and moving on and dadada.
(19:11):
But then after I realized that,me solely me was not able to
change that thought right away,or, at least in that year that I
was there and I finally acceptedthat it was going to take more
than just me. I, yeah, I justtook them and let it slide. I, I
(19:32):
guess this is where theself-care came in, where I
started to make a community formy own of Fulbrighters and, and
really people that I cared aboutin La Man and I was able to
just reflect, right, and writestuff down and and share about
these experiences with the otherFulbrighters of Color and I
(19:52):
think that was my biggest mentalhealth strategy, to write
everything out and document it.
And I think that just made me astronger person. And like I
mentioned before, because ofEcuador. I now am like, happier
with who I am as amulticultural, multilingual
self. So I'm grateful and thissounds like kind of silly, but
(20:16):
I'm grateful for all of thosepainful times because I now more
comfortable with myself and Ilook at myself and I'm like,
"Yeah! Bueno, s. Soy china. Yqu?" Like, I love it. So yeah,
I think those were my self-care,which I should have done more
for myself. But I think it wasvery difficult, very difficult
trying to navigate everythingand think of what to do for
(20:39):
myself, so. Yeah.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (20:43):
I think about a lot with programs
is, you know, it's always goingto be impossible to eliminate
every moment of discomfort, lackof safety, even sometimes, and
even, you know, micro,microexpressive, microaggressive
behavior. And we have aresponsibility in speaking about
programs to ensure that folksare best supported to best
navigate those situations, youknow? So, I think that's
(21:05):
something I think about justeven with your story, that it's
like, appreciating what youlearn at the same time being
like, there could have also beenmuch more done.
Meilin Chong (21:13):
Yeah, yeah. And I think now that you bring that
up, it's more of like Latinosand Latinx, right, communities.
We are s--. There's no look forus. And I strongly believe that
I really think that mestizostend to be the ones who are
identi-.Like, if you look atmestizo, like, yeah, Latino,
(21:36):
right, or Latinx. Pero? No, Ithink it's really hard to
pinpoint, and Latino and aLatinx, Latine etc. And I think
that is what hasn't come intoconversation into dialogue that
is missing, once that is likereally poked at and explored, I
(21:59):
really think that like, there'sgoing to be a lot more, just a
lot more acceptance, a lot moreof like, realizing that this has
always been our culture. And inour identities, like there's
been so many historical eventsthat have made Latinx who they
are. The fact that more of me,are being born, I think is the
(22:25):
important thing. Like morebiracial, more mixed, more
multiracial children are beingborn every single time. I mean,
in my classroom, I have fourchildren who are biracial. When
I was in school, I was the onlyone who was biracial. I think
(22:45):
that shift, as an educator,that's my main goal. Once I am
able to accept and talk aboutthese and both, I will then open
up the space for these childrenwho are growing up in a more, I
guess, open to discussionenvironment than I have. Having
to navigate that myself and notbelonging right now to any group
(23:12):
that I choose to be because I'mnot enough, that I don't want
that to happen to the childrenthat I'm teaching right now,
tha,t that they can't be blackenough, they can't be white
enough. They can't be Italianenough, they can't be whatever,
multilingual enough because theymix up their languages, etc. So
that I think that that's thebiggest thing that I am
(23:34):
grappling with myself and that Ican deal with but I don't want
the same struggle that I havebeen through to be as intense
for the younger generations.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (23:45):
I'm curious about all this stuff
with language because I'd loveto know more about you as you're
bilingual teacher self. So whatfor you does bilingual education
mean to you as a teacher and asa person?
Meilin Chong (23:59):
I came to the U.S.
and I was what we in theresearch field called "sink or
swim" English education, right?
So like, I was literally throwninto a first grade classroom,
and I can tell you that I hatedit. I cried every single day, I
(24:20):
did not want to go to school.
And that was very traumatic. AndI think that's another reason
why I don't necessarily loveteaching English to foreign
countries, which is something Iforgot to mention, but going
into the Fulbright ETA was toughfor me linguistically because of
what I just said. I was, Iapplied to an ETA, but I was
(24:45):
like, "Ugh, I'm going againsteverything I believe in." You
know, like, I'm going againstthat like power that English has
the one that like completelythrew me off and affected my
family dynamics, affected my,like socioeconomic status, like,
it affected everything right? Soto me bilingual education is a
(25:09):
form of empowering, if doneright, form of empowering the
target language group, notnecessarily racial, right
because just because someonespeaks Spanish at home does not
mean they're Hispanic. So,empowering those students more
than giving that elitebilingualism to the white
(25:32):
children. So, that is mypersonal goal as a bilingual
educator, that I want to givethat voice and-- not voice,
sorry. I'm gonna go back. I wantto give that space to have them
use their own voice inempowering themselves in this
English dominant society that wehave.
It's really hard. I'm not surehow to to manage this yet as I
(25:59):
am only a first year likeofficial teacher. How to make
sure that my Lat-, Latinxchildren don't fall behind even
in a place where they aresupposed to shine because of the
power that comes with English,the power that comes with
whiteness in that setting. Thechildren may not necessarily see
(26:23):
it, or they may see it but notnecessarily label it, right?
They may not be like Oh, thoseblanquitos like are getting more
attention or reading faster. Itmay be over their heads in
labeling it but they see it andI was just talking to my partner
teacher about this that we'redoing a little like show and
(26:45):
we're putting on the song "ColorEsperanza." I don't know if you
know that song but "ColorEsperanza." I don't remember the
singer, but a lot of families--
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperli (26:56):
We'll link the song no matter what.
Meilin Chong (26:57):
Yeah, we will do it! Oh, there we go, Diego
Torres. And this is a really oldsong. This is a really important
story that we were talking aboutbecause these Hispanic and
Latinx children, once they heardthat song Jeremy, they're like,
"mi familia sabe esta cancion.
Nosotros la cantamos! Ms.
(27:22):
Meilin!" And they were so happyJeremy. They were dancing salsa.
They were just living theirculture in this Boston, like
very white community in theSouth End. I was like, so happy
to hear that. And you could seethat the other children were put
in this position ofuncomfortableness. They were
(27:44):
like, "Oh, I don't know thissong. Like, what is this? Like?
Why am I listening to this?" Youknow? That right there was one
of the best moments in my careerso far, where I saw that these
Latinx children were able toboom, like, full themselves with
energy, grab these whitechildren, start dancing with
(28:05):
them, teaching them what theirculture is all about, a little
piece of who they are. And nowyou walk into that classroom,
put that song in, everyone issinging. Everyone's learning the
song. Everyone's learning how tosalsa. We're learning the
importance of what the songmeans. That is a little piece of
(28:25):
like, what I would love to seemore of, and later on, like when
I'm teaching down the line orjust in the world, right? And
not. In putting these like whitechildren in these spaces of
uncomfortableness so that theycan learn more and have more
respect. Because that is what'smissing, the respect of
cultures. They are so young thatthey see this as an experience,
(28:49):
right? They're so young thatthey're like. "Oh, s, tengo
compaeros que son Latinx.
Great! Chvere!" But thosemoments where they are
uncomfortable, where they'relike struggling to learn the
language, those are the momentsthat I want to see more of, and
to see the Latinx children justlike be so happy about learning
and--
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (29:12):
I think it's amazing. And I think
it's something that we need, ifagain, the goals are things of
inclusion of racial equity, oflinguistic equity, there's a lot
that needs to be done. You know,as a white person to acknowledge
that whiteness does transcendborders, that whiteness has
these sort of impacts even justwhat you just named, right?That
like bilingual education, not asa way further add opportunity
(29:35):
and asset just to whitechildren, but rather as a
community tool, and a community.
Meilin Chong (29:41):
Yeah
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sp (29:41):
practice.
So just curious if there'sanything you'd like to say more
just on this concept of how--And maybe this! How whiteness
really intersects with theseeducational experiences you had,
and also, but I think. What Iwould say is education is a tool
for social justice or socialchange, how whiteness can
actually hurt that possibly.
Meilin Chong (30:01):
I don't know if you know this Jeremy, but
bilingual education in the U.S.
was, like illegal. And weweren't able to have these
spaces where you can speak adifferent language besides
English. So now that they'relike, kind of re-coming back
and, and really settling downyet without a lot of resources.
Like I have to translate a lotof stuff, right and, and
(30:24):
translating that is anotherexample of whiteness, because,
and English power because we'retaking these, like white culture
ideas and just like oh, yeah,are translating, because we
don't have enough time, we don'thave enough resources. So that
in itself is a littledisappointing because we're not
giving again, that space forthat voice for that authentic
(30:46):
text for that authentic culturalshare. And instead we're
labeling it as bilingualeducation, whereas it's more of
like, yep, we're reallystruggling to teach you,
Spanish, all of you, and reallytrying to empower with the
little resources we have.
It's very interesting, Jeremy,to see bilingual education here,
(31:10):
but lingual education in othercountries and try to understand
that even though bilingualeducation is seen as a great
thing, a lot of the timesbilingual education is masked by
these really, like I said,really interesting policies that
favor one or the other.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (31:31):
Yes
Meilin Chong (31:32):
Like groups, right? If you go to like Puno,
Peru, the Quechua-Spanishbilingual education is
interesting in itself, becausealthough they want to revive and
revitalize this beautifullanguage, it's still grounded
within that, "Oh, yes, we can dothat. But we still need to give
(31:53):
them that Spanish!" And theydon't really realize that it's
okay. It's okay to not speakSpanish. Obviously like, there's
pros and cons to learning andleaving language behind. But
these languages that carrypower, like Spanish and Latin
America, English in the wholeworld, like, it doesn't give
space for others to really tomake those languages as powerful
(32:19):
as English, right? And I thinkthis is like a cyclical effect.
Like, we keep saying, There's notext in Quechua, there's no text
in Spanish, there's no resourcesin Spanish for bla bla bla.
Well, why? Hello! It's becausewe're not giving that academic
Spanish, that academic Quechuaenough power to then give text,
(32:42):
to then provide these resources.
So it's going to be like acyclical thing that we're going
through. And until we give thosepower, that power to those
languages, and then those textscan be produced. Then that way,
it'll like kind of, whicj willnever be equal. But I think I'll
give more leverage to thoselanguages. Right? So,
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperli (33:02):
Yeah!
Cydni Gordon (33:02):
Y es el privilegio, no? El privilege que
trae porque. Like mis padresdidn't have that privilege.
They're so hard working. They'reso intelligent. They are so
resilient. Pero, el ingls?
That's what like was sodifficult, right? They came to a
new country had no idea how tospeak English, what like, what
(33:24):
to do, and they didn't have achoice. They didn't have a
choice, like many, you know,monolingual like English
speakers who are like, yep, I'mgonna find English everywhere.
It's like, great, great for you.
Pero, most of the world comesand they're lost, because it's
not. It's not a language they'refamiliar with. So este
(33:45):
privilegio is something thatI'm-- I guess that's what is
rooted within me that I don'twant to continue, like fostering
this English power. And I'mlike, let's do other things, you
know, so. But yeah.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (33:58):
We ask this question. This podcast
is named Fullbright, Forward.
The intentionality there's thatthere is always more we can
learn and unlearn and keepdoing. From your perspective,
what do you think about when Iwhen I asked the question like,
from your experience, what canwe do to keep moving fullbright
forward?
Meilin Chong (34:19):
The first thing that I-- I actually am talking
to some Fulbrighters about rightnow is, how can we as an alumni
community come together tocreate initiatives to create
these spaces of dialogue, tocontinue talking about race, and
People of or Fulbrighters ofColor in the world? And how to
(34:45):
normalize the idea thatAmericans aren't white
Americans. So that is somethingthat we're actually in, pursuing
as well. We're trying to reallyjust talk to more Latinx
Fulbrighters and and start that,like snowball effect. I also
(35:09):
think that Commissions could doa lot more by reaching out to
their alumni, and asking, like,really understanding like, I see
this very much as in like myMaster's degree where it's like,
this is a research thing aswell, right? Like there needs to
be some sort of needsassessment, monitoring and
(35:32):
evaluation and not so much like,"Great we dropped you here,"
which is what a lot ofdevelopment work is. We drop it
here, you do what you have todo, you leave, goodbye, you're
done. And that lack of followthrough is really impeding a lot
of growth, which a lot of thegrowth that we can be doing is
(35:53):
very quick, right? Like, we canliterally just start with
dialogues really quickly,because there's so many of us
when continuing but I reallythink that commission should
really reach out to their alumniand, and understand what
happened in their experience,understand where the gaps in
learning, and have some actionsteps to continue growth in
(36:15):
Fulbright. But and thetresources to. I know that like,
where the resources are givento, who has what, and if more
resources could be going toprograms like yours, where you
were talking about diversity,that would be amazing, right? So
like, having these initiatives Ithink, I think could help a
(36:37):
lot. So definitely with backedup research, I'm a big
researcher fan as well, Jeremy.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (36:43):
And finally, like, Is there anything
you'd like to say just inclosing out the episode, if
there's something that you wouldwant other folks interested in
Fulbright interestedinternational experiences, that
may share identity experiencewith you or not just if there's
anything in particular, youwould like to share with folks,
and if there's an audience youhave in mind who they are, as we
close out this episode.
Meilin Chong (37:04):
I think my biggest learning takeaway is not to put
more work and pressure on Peopleof Color, or especially
Fulbrighters of Color,especially alumni. But I think
as much as we want for things tochange, it's also kind of, I see
it as my responsibility to talkto these first generation People
(37:28):
or Students of Color. Because ifmy mentor had not been there for
me, I would not have known aboutFulbright. And I think it's very
important for us to share ourexperiences, and to just like
have people know, of Fulbright.
Because I can tell you that whenif I go back to my small
hometown in New Hampshire, andthe People of Color there have
(37:49):
no idea what Fulbright is.
Entonces, I think I would reallylike to see us alumni coming
together, and having these talksabout our experience and opening
more opportunities up for peoplewho are like us. I think that
(38:09):
will push more of thisconversation, legit force it by
having more Fulbrighters ofColor in the field, and these
dialogues will enhance and justcome about.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperli (38:22):
Well, Meilin, thank you so much for
your time. I know we've goneover than what we expected, but
I hope, I hope in. My hope isthat it's been for you formative
just in having space to reflecton certain things and also share
really your brilliance aroundwhat I think bilingual education
can be, the power of Englishboth as oppressive and
(38:43):
potentially a place of growth,and I think for us to continue
to think through how we moveFulbright, Forward. So thank you
so much for all that you'veshared about who you are, what
you care about, and you knowthat you refuse to choose.
Meilin Chong (38:57):
Thank you so much for having me, Jeremy.
Jeremy Ryan Gombin-Sperling (38:59):
And that's all for this episode of
Fulbright Forward. Thank you somuch for listening. For a list
of resources mentioned intoday's episode, you can go to
the Fulbright Forward websitehosted on our Buzzsprout page.
Remember also that you cansubscribe to Fulbright Forward
through your favorite podcastapp like Apple podcasts or
Spotify, as well as follow thepodcast on Instagram. After
(39:20):
recording this episode, Ithought a lot about the story
that Meilin shared when she andher co teacher got her students
dancing and singing to the songColor Esperanza. As Meilin
notes. That moment shifted thedynamics of the classroom. And
ultimately, it brought herstudents closer together,
promoted learning, and allowedher Latinx Students of Color to
be seen and heard in ways thatmay have only been felt by the
(39:42):
white students prior. So I askmyself and I ask listeners to
think about this with me. Whatdoes that Color Esperanza moment
look like in our work? What doesit look like to shift the
dynamics of power, privilege andidentity in our spaces in a way
that welcomes discomfort andmoves us towards more collective
strength and community? I knowthat sometimes in work on
(40:03):
diversity, equity inclusion,people can feel as though the
work they are doing has been"wrong" and that our job is now
to do it right? Well, we need toremember that this is not about
right or wrong, but rather aboutdoing things differently if our
goals are towards a morediverse, inclusive and equitable
landscape and whatever field inwhich we work. And this is part
(40:23):
of what I hope we all can takefrom this conversation with
Melin, that those ColorEsperanza moments are perhaps
what we have needed all along.
Again, I'm JeremyGombin-Sperling Fulbright
America's Diversity andInclusion Liaison. Be well stay
safe, and until next time.
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