April 16, 2025 • 34 mins
Christi talks with Jeff Zimmerman, President of Fort + Home, about real estate investing, renovating historic buildings (including the beautiful Hotel Melrose in Downtown Grand Junction), and the exciting affordable housing project they are working on in Orchard Mesa, in the Grand Valley area of Western Colorado.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The Full Circle podcast, compelling interviews
and incredible tales fromColorado's Western Slope, from
the mountains to the desert.
Christy Reese and her team herefrom the Movers Shakers, and
characters of the Grand Valleyand surrounding mountain towns
that make the Western slope theplace we all love. You'll
learn, you'll laugh, you'lllove with the full circle.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Full Circle
(00:27):
Podcast. I'm your host, KristyReese, and today I'm really
excited to have as our guest,Jeff Zimmerman, president and
development manager for Fortand Home , uh, real estate
company with all kinds of armsin lots of different things.
Right, Jeff? For sure. Okay .
So we're gonna talk about a lotof your projects today. Um, you
are a Grand Junction native?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I am, yes. I was , I was , uh, born in Grand
Junction and then , uh, grew upin , uh, silk , Colorado.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Not too many people can say that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Not too many. Yeah .
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And , um, and then how did you make your way back
here? I mean, you didn't stayin Western Colorado , um, your
whole life, but you , um, wentother places and learned a lot
of different , uh, skills.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, so I went to the University of Wyoming for
school. Um, that's where I wentto college. And then after
that, I came back to GrandJunction and , um, I guess I
was chasing the money bug , sogetting in the oil and gas
industry mm-hmm .
And then also finished collegeat , uh, CMU while I was , uh,
here in Grand Junction. Andthen , um, from there, you
(01:30):
know, moved to Denver, did somedevelopment there , um, and
then eventually went to Texas ,uh, for oil and gas, and then
went up to back to Denver andthen , um, up to Montana to
work on some projects, and thenmade our way back to Colorado.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I think a lot of people that will be listening
and watching that get excitedabout real estate investing and
, um, fix and flip or any kindof , um, venture in the real
estate world, think. Okay. Howdid you do it? And, and I'm
guessing that you took some ofyour profits from oil and gas ,
uh, and, and leapt into realestate, but how did you have
(02:10):
the confidence to do that?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, it's, it's much easier to invest in real
estate when you have a W2 job.
Mm-hmm . And ,uh, banks like that. So , um,
what I did was , um, when I wasworking in oil and gas, I would
take the, you know, money fromthe site , any , any extra
money that I had. And the firstrental that I purchased was in
2008, which is not the besttiming, but the good thing was
(02:32):
, um, it was a duplex that Ipurchased, so then I had , uh,
people living in the basement,and then I rented out about
every room I could mm-hmm . Uh , to my
friends . So , um, covered themortgage. Um, and then, you
know, once I realized that, youknow , I could cover the cost
of where I'm living and made alittle extra money, I was , I
was hooked. So , um, went fromthere to , um, working with you
(02:54):
on purchasing a property andanother one in Grand Junction
right down the road. And I wasalways, you know, I grew up in
the , where my, my grandfatherwas in the construction
industry, so , um, I understoodlike the trade mm-hmm
. And how to fixthings up and things like that.
So that helped me out quite abit. So a lot of it was DIY
(03:15):
mm-hmm. Um, andthen, you know , watching shows
like HGTV and all that, yousee, you know, that there's
potential in other areas wheremaybe not in rentals, and we
got more into the fix and flipsmm-hmm . And
that's where we did those morein Denver. And, you know,
looking back now and looking atGrand Junction, I wish I bought
more here because have theappreciation, but, and there's
(03:37):
a little better cash flow too.
Mm-hmm . I justgot into , uh, um, it's called
low high area in Sunnyside inDenver. And , uh, it's a
historic area where , um,there's a lot of character to
the properties mm-hmm. But , um, it's
clo close enough to downtown towhere people would spend, you
know, a million dollars to livein a 1000 square foot house. So
(03:59):
that helped on the profit side, um, but it wasn't the cash
flow we were looking for, sothat's when we transitioned
over into more on thecommercial side.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And, and what does that look like? That's a big
leap going from residential tocommercial. It is,
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I , I read that, I read about your project in
Montana. I'm excited to hearabout that, but yeah, talk
about how you got fromresidential to commercial in
the Denver area, and then howthat translated to Montana.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, so, you know, I was looking at it on the
finance side, and when you're,when you're flipping homes,
it's more transactional. So youput all the energy in all the
work in , um, you know, to, toflip the home or to do a new
build. And then once thetransaction's over, you know,
you have to pay heavy tax andthen you're looking for the
next one. So we wanted to getaway from that, and that's why
(04:45):
we went more on the commercialside. So we said , okay, we're
looking for something where wecan improve, you know, the NOI
on a property, and thatactually increases the value.
So that's really what got me mymind thinking in a different
way to where instead of justsaying, okay, I'm basing it on
comps, then I'm trying to buildthese properties, I'm actually
increasing the cash flow ,which should increase the value
(05:05):
of the property. So that'sreally what it , the transition
took place. And that was in2017. Um,
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And, and were you , um, investing in some of these
commercial properties yourselfand keeping them, or were you
kind of doing like a fix andflip on commercial ventures?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, so it started out as a fix and flip. Um, and
then we got into , um, where wewere holding 'em mm-hmm
. So , um,there's properties now that we
still hold that , you know, wepurchased in 2000 , 2018, and
there's some that we've sold.
So it really just depends on,you know, where that, where
that property sits after it'sfinished mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (05:38):
. And
exiting the Denver market and ,
and it was your next move toMontana.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah. So our last project that we did in Denver
was 2019, and I felt that itwas getting a little frothy,
which it's not really the casebecause after covid , I mean,
we , we wish we probablywould've stayed in a little bit
longer, but for me, I , I'malways looking at, you know,
the risk side. And on thattransaction of flipping homes,
(06:04):
you don't want too many flipsgoing at one time if the , if
the market wants to gosideways. So purchasing my
first property in 2008 kind oftaught me that lesson early on
to where, you know, a propertycan be worth, you know, 220,000
and then, you know, a yearlater it's almost cut in half.
So , um, I guess it was good toget in early at that point just
(06:25):
to have that understanding, butfor us, you know, where we were
looking after that point,instead of getting, we want to
get away from the transactionside and more into commercial.
And in any downside, you know,scenario, it's always good to
have rent coming in, andespecially with more units
mm-hmm . And thenalso be diversified in the
(06:45):
different types of assets thatwe're invested in. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (06:48):
. And ,
um, I feel like we're having
our own little episode ofBiggerPockets here. It's great.
Um, what is, what is your , um,your best advice for someone
that is wanting to get intoreal estate, adventures,
ventures or adventures and ,um, how to get started and,
(07:09):
and, you know, I'm , it'sreally hard to time the real
estate market as you were justtalking about, right? You ,
you're always evaluating, butyou never know what's coming
ahead. And so a lot of people,you know, think about , uh, I
don't wanna get in now, I'mgonna wait for things to
improve, or I'm gonna wait forthings to go down, yada, yada.
(07:30):
So give some advice on all ofthose kind of things and, and
how you can help someone that'swanting to get into real estate
fix and flip or investing.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah. So the , the first thing I'd say is choose a
niche. So we've flipped, we'vedone retail, we've done office
, we've done multi-family. AndI think the one thing that
we've learned over the years isif you could focus on one thing
and get really good at it , um,you'll be a lot better off. And
there's some scale with thatmm-hmm . Um, and
(07:59):
then also making sure you havegood relationships with
lenders, investors, especiallywhen you start getting into the
commercial side, you almosthave to have, you know, some
sort of outside capital comingin to support on the projects.
And I mean, I think that's, Imean, I , that's the big one,
is just making sure that you'refocused and then knowing where
(08:20):
you want to be later on downthe road, and then shooting for
that and aiming mm-hmm. And also,
there's no deal that's too big,right? So what we, oh , what I
wish I would've learnedearlier, which is instead of
scraping together every dollarI have, and then every paycheck
that I have for extra savingsand fixing up a house, I , I
wish I would've understood thefinance side where there's
(08:42):
people out there that wannamake money on their money, and
you can scale with themtogether as a partnership. So
they're making money, you'redeveloping properties, you
still have to put some skin inthe game, whether it's sweat
equity or, you know, moneyinvolved. But , um, I think
it's just understanding thatyou can go big at the beginning
(09:02):
if you need to, and surroundingyourself with good partners to
where even like propertymanagers or a good real estate
broker, I mean, that's veryimportant to have those people
around you. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And, and developing those financial relationships
really important. Andespecially in the bigger cities
where you don't know everybodykinda like you do here, you
know, like, you know who theplayers are here, but it's,
it's really important here too,for sure. Yeah. Um, back to
Montana. So how did thathappen?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, so it was, it was one of those where, you
know, we were, we were workingin Denver and we, my wife and
I, so we actually met here inGrand Junction, and then we
moved to , to Denver together,and we're in the business
together. So she does more ofthe, the pretty stuff, right.
So she's all into the historicarchitecture and fixing things
up, and I'm more of the get itdone mm-hmm .
(09:54):
Person. So it's a good combo.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah. It works out pretty well. And we just,
we really, you know, hadMontana on our mind. You know,
we, we liked the national parksand everything up there, but
there was a , a city or a townthat kind of cut our eye, and
it was on a Anthony Bourdainepisode, and it was , uh,
Butte, Montana, which is, atone point it was called the
Richest Hill. So it had themost wealthy, you know,
(10:19):
concentrated , uh, group ofpeople in one area because of a
large copper mine mm-hmm . And because of
that, the real estate in thearea is pretty amazing. Like,
it's up , up on a, on a hill,and it's the largest historic
district in the United States.
Oh , I didn't
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Realize
Speaker 3 (10:33):
That. Which is , which is kind of rare to have
in the middle of the mountains.
Mm-hmm. So wesaid, we gotta get up there and
, and see what this is about.
So we, you know, we made thetrip up on one of our summer
trips that we did, and, youknow, we kind of , we just fell
in love. It's, and people cansee it actually what Uptown
Beat looks like in , um, ifthey watch the Yellowstone
(10:53):
Series 1923. And it's, I mean,it's still like stuck in time,
like the, the architecture andthe views. It's, it's pretty
amazing. And
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So I love that series 1923, and I, I , now I
need to go back and watch itand, and look for your
building. Yeah. Do you stillown that?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah. So what was the hotel Bozeman in, in the
series? That's actually ourbuilding. We still own it. So
Harrison Ford and I , I can'tremember who the other, is it
Meryl Streep ? Something likethat ? No,
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's , um, gimme a minute. I'll think of it. Keep
going. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
But anyway, they were, I mean, the , the scenes
that they did it was prettyfunny because Paramount
actually rented our space fromus. So they set it up to make,
look , make it look like ahotel and everything. And they
hung a sign on the outside thatsaid Hotel Bozeman, which kind
of upset the people in Buttebecause they're not like, Hey,
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It's Butte , come on. Yeah .
Speaker 3 (11:45):
But yeah, we still own that one. And then we , uh,
developed another property,which was the first one we
purchased up there, which isthe O'Rourke building. And
there was a 26 unit , um,apartment building, and at the,
like, the time , and it wasbuilt, it was pretty, it was
pretty luxurious. Um, I mean,all the details that , um, it ,
you know, they put into it whenthey built it, but when we
(12:07):
purchased it, when the roof wascaving in, it was pretty rough.
So , um, we had, you know, thefacade, and that's the
important part to those typesof buildings, because we, what
we do is we go down to thestuds anyway, so it wasn't that
big of a deal. So we , we wentin, we got it. And you know,
luckily there's very supportivethere in , in Butte , um,
because it's , uh, you know,the largest historic district
(12:30):
and there's a lot of creditsand grants and things like that
to where they'll helpincentivize the development.
Um, so, you know, we just wentinto it and most people call
this crazy crazy, 'cause Imean, we went from flipping
houses to, you know, 15, 20,000square foot historic buildings.
And the reason, you know, wewere looking at it is 'cause it
(12:50):
was affordable. Right. So, andI, I say that in quotes because
yeah , it's a , it's affordableto purchase the property, but,
you know, all that goes into itafter the fact. It's not
really. So
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Those , yeah, those old buildings are full of
surprises, aren't they? Theyare . Yeah. You do one thing
and then you have five moreissues you didn't know about
before.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Exactly. Yeah . But I mean, the way that the
building's turned out, it ,it's pretty amazing. And I give
most of the credit to my wife,you know, for all the details
and everything that she putinto it. And we had 'em all
pre-sold by the time we werefinished. And it was, it was
kind of a nice get away fromColorado. 'cause we purchased
the buildings in 2017, 2018range. But during Covid we
(13:32):
moved up there, and at thatpoint we only had one daughter.
Um, so it was nice to kind ofseparate from what was going on
in Colorado, and it was just alittle more of a small town,
and it was quiet there inButte. So it was nice to, you
know, work through thoseprojects. And , um, our second
daughter was actually born inButte, so , um, yeah , so we
have some other propertiesthere as well. So Multifamilies
(13:54):
and, you know, retail , um,condo conversions that we've
done. And, you know, we justgot to the point where when you
have young kids, it's uh , it'ssometimes nice to be close to
family. So we, we realized wewere a little too far away. So
we moved back to Colorado andat that point , um, that's when
we were looking at some otherprojects. And you know, we, my
wife and I, you know, we were ,um, we went to college here and
(14:17):
in Grand Junction, I'm from thearea and , um, I have multiple
generations of family membershere. So, you know, this is
kind of an area where we arelooking at, we say, Hey, this
is, you know, a path toprogress and we're to Butte .
And , um, that's when wepurchased the, the Melrose, the
Hotel Melrose. And yeah, it was, uh, it was pretty rough as
well. Um, but there's somethingabout the historic buildings,
(14:39):
because you can't really, Imean, it's all about what they
say is location, location,location. And with historic
buildings, they're pretty muchin the best locations, right?
They're on the main streets,they're downtown. So, you know,
we wanted to , uh, dip our toesa little bit more on, into ,
um, the hospitality side. And ,uh, we like the historic
(15:00):
buildings. And we had someother projects here too , some
multifamily properties. But ,um, there's a split between my
wife and I. So I'm more of afinance person, so mm-hmm
. I look at itand I say, okay, this, you
know, seven unit apartmentbuilding, it's pretty common
cash flow . I like that side.
Yeah . But my wife says, okay,we're gonna fix this hotel up
and it's gonna be the best. Andshe, she focuses on that side.
(15:23):
But, you know, looking at itnow, it's much better to hold
an asset that's, you put theenergy into the work into and
spend the money on it. Right.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, I, I love that you work together on that. And
I think that anybody that hasvisited the Melrose will say,
great job on the design. Imean, what a beautiful
building. And it's got such anice feel. Love the bar,
haven't, you know, stayed inthe rooms, but , um, would love
to , um, see the whole building'cause it just looks beautiful.
(15:52):
Um, talk a little bit about theaesthetic and, and what your
wife's goal was for the feel ofthe building, if you can speak
to that. Yeah,
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So, you know, of course, like I was talking
about earlier, you, you wannamake sure you partner with the
right group. So , um,Chamberlain architects are here
in town and, you know, theyhave some experience on the
historic side. So they helpedus lay it out. And then, you
know, there's Danielle , mywife Danielle also worked with
some, some designers in town aswell too , to kind of come up
(16:23):
exactly with what, what shewanted for the, you know, the
final, the final feel and lookof the building. Um , which it,
it definitely wasn't easy if,if you visit the place, the ,
the walls are, you know, prettydark blue. And , um, that's
kind of a, it's a handful of aproject on the construction
sites , so painting andeverything else. But I mean,
(16:44):
the way it turned out was, wasgreat. And for me, you know,
what I'm really looking at iscost control. So , you
go into these historicbuildings and you have to do,
he piers on the outside. 'causethe, you know, the , it's a
whole old historic buildingbuilt in 1918, I believe, or
16, so like that, or 1906. Soit's pretty old. Yeah . So
(17:06):
, it's a , it's inrough condition. So I'm, you
know, what I'm looking at onwith our construction team is
we go in and we say, okay, whatdo we need to do here? And then
how do we do it so it pencilsat the same time? So , um, and
I think that, you know, when westarted, we were, we were
looking at the property more askeeping it the way it was, so
(17:27):
not investing as much becauseit was shared bathrooms, but
after Covid, that's not really,that's kind of frowned upon,
right? You don't want to besharing bathrooms.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Oh , yeah. Covid changed that a little bit,
didn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
It did. So ,
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So right in the middle of your project, Uhhuh.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
,
yeah, it was right after, right
after Covid. And , um, youknow, we, we looked at it and I
think it was 23 rooms withmaybe four bathrooms in there
that people shared. And I thinkit was an affordable stay for
people. Um, and it was stilloperating when we purchased it,
but it wasn't operating at thefull potential mm-hmm
. So we went in,now it's 16 rooms, they're all
(18:01):
suites. And then for me, I'mlooking at the risk of it. So I
say, okay, if we have anothercovid and hospitality decides
to go, you know, in , into thedump again , um, I want to make
sure that we have a backup plan. So we put full kitchens in to
where we could turn 'em intorentals if we needed to. So
technically it could be a 16unit apartment building mm-hmm
(18:23):
. Um , but I mean,there's definitely more money
on the hospitality side if youoperate it properly. So , um,
we have that as had that as thebackup plan. But I felt pretty
good about the 16 rooms thatare , you know, spacious and ,
um, well designed byChamberlain. Yeah . You know?
And ,
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And was it always your goal to have , um, a non
hosted , uh, hospitalitybuilding like that? I think
it's a great concept.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah. So, you know, doing our research and, you
know, talking to consultantsduring the, the period, you
know, when we're going throughthe planning side, they say,
really , um, you have to haveat least 40 rooms to where
you're staffed up. Um, and weknew that we couldn't fit that
in the square footage that wehad, so we really didn't have
another option if we wanted tomake sure that the numbers are
(19:12):
gonna work. So , um, and it isfully automated, so people can
go in on their cell phone ,they can scan, they can get
into their rooms , they can getinto the front door mm-hmm
. And we havepeople we want to , we want to
focus more on, like, genuinehospitality is kind of the ,
the brand for the hotel. Um, soreally instead of a front desk
person, we want more of like apersonal concierge. And we
(19:34):
think we can do that with 16rooms to where we actually have
people supports of somebodymakes a phone call, they have
somebody to talk to, you cantext your phone, you can talk,
say you need a towel, orwhatever. So it's just, it's
just changing a little bit, butit's , it's actually providing
a better service. So we want itto be the service of like a
four seasons that you get, butnot the cost that comes with
(19:56):
it.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Well, and the consumers are really used to
the kind of VRBO model whereyou're kind of on your own, but
you have contact for somebodywhen you need something. But
this takes it up a level forsure. A little more concierge.
Yeah. And how's your occupancybeen?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, so in a , in a hotel like that, I mean,
revenue's the most important tous. So we're going more towards
the , the higher average dailyrate than the occupancy. Um ,
but Occupancy's been, you know, pretty solid for the first
year of operation on it. Um ,but I mean, the , the rates go,
we have people that are bookingrooms for $500 a night, you
(20:32):
know, in the peak seasons. Andreally that's who we want to
focus on because we're in thehotel zone when we're , we
don't want to compete with atrue or a Hampton Inn mm-hmm
. And we don'twant to bring our prices to com
, like compete with them. Wewant to be more of the boutique
stay for somebody looking forthe experience. Mm-hmm
. And believe itor not, it's pretty crazy the
amount of people that comefrom, I mean, all over the
(20:53):
world, they're coming to GrandJunction and they'll stay in
our hotel because they wantthat experience, they want the
wine country, they wanna stayin a nice place. Mm-hmm
. You know, theMelrose Spirit Co . Um, Gavin
owns that and he does a greatjob. Yeah . Um , and I think
that's, that's one of thethings where it just kind of
sets it, you know, a littlehigher bar than everything else
for the competition around. So.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, I want to talk about your affordable housing
project that you are working onout in Orchard Mesa. Where do
you wanna start talking aboutthat? Yeah , how'd you come up
with the idea, I guess?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yeah. So we actually purchased a mobile home park,
and , um, there's a lot ofrules around mobile home parks
that have changed over the lastfive years. So, and especially
since we first purchased it.
Um, but you know, what, what welike to do is we don't, we
don't wanna be slumlords,right? We don't, that's not the
business we're in. We wannamake sure that when we provide
(21:51):
a product, it's the best. And ,um, we didn't feel that, you
know, putting new modularhousing or even older modular
housing into an area to wherethere's other mobile home parks
in the area , um, we wanted tomake sure that we, we could
provide something to the marketthat , um, we can, I guess fill
(22:14):
the gap on the affordabilityside, but it, just because it's
affordable doesn't mean it, itcan't be nice mm-hmm
. Right? So westarted working with the
planning department and City ofGrand Junction, and this is
definitely a unique projectbecause we call it a mobile ho
mobile home park conversion. Sothe homes are laid out similar,
(22:35):
similar setbacks as a mobilehome to where, you know , I
mean, that you think about,like, when mobile home parks
were usually built was in theseventies, sixties, seventies
when inflation was high. Andit's kind of happening again to
where people can't reallyafford an affordable home,
right? Mm-hmm .
An entry level home, and wewant to be able to fill that
gap, but still have a qualitycommunity that they could live
(22:57):
in. So we're doing stick buildhomes, and they'll range from
six to 700 square feet, whichis, you know, small, but for
somebody that's an entry , youknow, home buyer mm-hmm
. And they canpurchase for, you know, below
$300,000 and still have, youknow, a dog park and a , you
know, a green space for theirkids to play, or , um, somebody
(23:21):
that's maybe like an emptynester that's downsizing from ,
um, a larger home. I thinkthat's really what we're trying
to get to. And you know, yousee these in a lot of
retirement communities to wherepeople are doing the, what they
call model homes in a, youknow, RV park or mobile homes ,
um, to where they don't maybeneed like a big home they don't
(23:41):
need , uh,
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, like down in Arizona. Yeah. What do they
call those? Not, they don'tcall 'em mobile home parks.
They call 'em what? Mobilecommunities, or, I can't
remember.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, so they're usually model homes, I believe
they call 'em. And they have tobe under 400 square feet, but
so what we're doing, and theyhave to be on wheels
technically, even thoughthey're not. Um , and that's
what a tiny home is considered.
Um , so we're going a step upto, we're making it larger, and
then, then we can do afoundation, excuse me, we can
do a foundation under 'em. Sothen, you know, technically
(24:15):
they can get traditionalfinancing on these properties
mm-hmm . And thenit's part of an HOA, so then we
have DHOA that covers all the,you know , cutting grass and
trash and everything else. Soif somebody wanted to say, live
in Grand Junction that , um,wanted a second home, it's a
good way to do it to where theycan be in a good community or
maybe somebody on the entrylevel side to where they're not
(24:37):
ready to buy a $500,000 entrylevel home, but they can come
in and they could own their ownproperty. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (24:43):
. So
where are you in the process
right now?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, so right now we're going through planning
and zoning , um, wrapping allthat up, so it took a little
bit longer and, you know, we'reglad that we went that route
because the property startedout with 12 units mobile homes,
and it was zoned for 26. Um,but it couldn't actually fit 26
homes on the park. And I don'tknow exactly like how they set
(25:09):
those rules, but , um, just bygoing through and getting the
variance and going throughplanning and the zoning, we
we're able to get 30 homes onthere. So it's actually laid
out quite a bit better. Somobile, and I , I don't wanna
bore you with all the details,but the mobile home park rules
in Colorado say it's like onein , one out, so it doesn't
matter the way the home wasactually set on the property,
(25:29):
it has to go back in that samespot mm-hmm .
Which doesn't make the mostsense for, you know,
functionality. So , um, it tooka little bit longer on the
planning and zoning side, but,you know, we're glad that we,
we did it , that we did it thatway. Mm-hmm. And
then, so while we're, you know,going through that side and
working on the landinfrastructure and everything
else, we're actually buildingthe homes off site , so on the
(25:51):
manufacturing side, and we'rerepurposing , um, some units
that we have , um, in the oiland gas industry and converting
those over, and we're alsodoing some stick builds . And
then that's really what sparkedthe interest for us on the
manufacturing side. So in GrandJunction, we're gonna be
putting in a facility to wherewe can start putting more units
through in a condition space,and then doing the same thing
(26:13):
and repeating in this marketand other markets around the
area. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
That's exciting. So you already have a facility?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Um , not quite yet, no. It's working
Speaker 2 (26:21):
On that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Okay. So we're doing everything out.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And when do you expect , um, for this
affordable , um, housingproject to be ready for people
to start purchasing? Yeah,
Speaker 3 (26:31):
So it'll be this summer.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Great. Yeah. And , um, who do you think your ,
your most likely buyer is?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I think it's gonna be people like me when I first
started out mm-hmm . Right ? It's
gonna be somebody that'slooking to make an investment
in a property, whether theyactually live in the property
or, you know, you couldpurchase it to rent it out,
because that's where thenumbers are gonna make sense at
a, you know, lower price perqua , per per square foot, but
the rents are still stable atthat number. So , um, I think
(26:59):
you're gonna have your entrylevel, you're gonna have your
investors, and I think you'realso gonna have the empty
nesters looking to downsize andmaybe they live in multiple
markets.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I think that, you know, like at the beginning of
our conversation, we're talkingabout real estate investing,
and of course , uh, those of usthat work in the real estate
industry believe in investingin real estate as a , a wealth
building tool. So , um, youknow, I think it's so important
for people to understand thatthey can get in at any stage,
right? They , they don't haveto start with a $400,000 home
(27:31):
or the average home, they justneed to get in, right? Mm-hmm
. Like get intoreal estate, whether it's a
condo, a town home , a tinyhome, an affordable , um, uh,
situation , um, get into thereal estate market, right? For
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Sure. You have to build equity. Yep . That the
only way to build it is to buysomething and Yep . And, and
making sure you're buyingright, of course. But , um, I,
I believe I'm pretty bullish in, in the Grand junction market.
Mm-hmm . And I think that , youknow, it's definitely has a lot
more upside potential. Um, butyeah, I agree with you a
hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And then what's next? So you're gonna be
manufacturing some , um,smaller homes to be put on
sites all around WesternColorado, Western United
States? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So, so offsite construction is our focus , um,
whether it's a single , um, andthey're, they're modular, but
once they're on theirfoundation, they're actually
considered stick built , butit's really offsite
construction. And then what,you know, our other focus is
like on the multifamily side.
So we have a 12 unit apartmentbuilding that's starting in
(28:37):
Montana that uses the sameconcept to where , um, the
module units can be. So there'ssome companies that are outta
Salt Lake that we're, you know,looking to, to work with on
this, but , um, they'll come asa module unit to where if it's
a fourplex, you have fourmodule units, you stack it
together, similar to some ofthe apartment buildings that
(28:59):
are mm-hmm . Downthe road here. Yep . So offsite
construction, just to controlcosts and, you know, quality
control and everything else.
That's really where we'refocused because what we found
in the market is, it's reallytough, especially in markets
like Montana, where you have ashore building window, you may
only have five to six months towhere you can build something,
(29:19):
it's tough to actually get itdone, but if you have it
offsite and you do yourfoundation work and then you
hop , you know, do all youroffsite construction, you send
it on a truck and then you geta train or a crane to, to set
the units, then you know, youcould be done in, you know,
three to four months. So that'sreally our focus on the control
, the controlling the costs ,and, you know, I think Grand
Junction's a good market for itbecause, you know, you're on I
(29:41):
70 and you, there's definitelya need for a lot of affordable
housing mm-hmm .
Um, so that's why we like it.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Awesome. And you have any other upcoming
projects in Grand Junction thatyou wanna share with us?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Um, I mean, we're always looking at projects, but
, um, over by the , uh, theMelrose we're looking to expand
and maybe even build onto thehotel a little bit more , um,
to add some rooms to get tothat above 40 , um, units now
that's maybe, you know, three,three years down the road
mm-hmm . By thetime we're finished. But, you
know, we're always looking for,you know, properties on the
(30:18):
path to progress. We like thehistoric side. Um, so we're,
we're always on the look for,for properties mm-hmm
. Um, but yeah, Imean, I think Grand Junction,
especially the downtown is, isdefinitely, you know, set for
growth.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah. A lot of good things happening there downtown
Palisade and Fruita , twowonderful communities and just
so much charm and character forsure. Yeah. Um, looking through
your website , um, there's alot of resources there for
people. Do you wanna talkabout, you know, you wanna
attract people to your websiteto look at the resources that
you offer?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, so I think for us, the main thing is
education. So I want to provide, um, that education that I
didn't have, right? So I'dprobably be in a lot different
spot right now, if, you know,YouTube is where it is now ,
um, just from everything youcan learn. Um, so, you know,
we've, we've tried to do ourbest to track our projects on,
(31:14):
you know, YouTube from when westart to completion, just to
kind of give that education,but then also show like, Hey ,
you know, we're, you know,we're actually doing these
things, we're not, you know,just talking about it. So , um,
I think that's a big thing onour website. And then , um, you
know, if there's, there'spartners or investors that are
in a market, I think we, youknow, we provide that, that
(31:36):
opportunity for people toinvest in Main Street in their
town. And I don't think thatthere's, you know, many
opportunities like that outthere, and especially on a
concentration. So we're notsaying that we're investing in
projects everywhere. We'resaying, okay, we like Grand
Junction, we like Butte, youknow, we like these certain
markets and, you know, ifpeople are aligned with what
we're, what we're doing, youknow, we welcome them to, to
(31:59):
reach out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So investing opportunities for people in ,
um, uh, what would you call it,A Coor consortium?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah. So we do, we do it through fund models or
syndication. So we've donepretty much everything on the ,
those types of options to wheresyndication is usually just one
investment. So if somebody justwanted to come in and say,
okay, I wanna invest in anapartment building, or, you
know , uh, manufacturing,housing or whatever it is, that
can be one investment orthere's options of funds to
(32:30):
where you can be diversifiedover multiple markets. Um , so
we've done, we've done both.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Wealth of information. Yeah. I encourage
everybody. What's the, give usyour website address?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, it's , uh, forton home.com.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And that's F-O-R-T-A-N-D, not a plus.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Incorrect . Yeah .
Okay . A-N-D-H-O-M e.com. Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Um, yeah, really, really great information for
people that are looking tolearn more about investing and
learn more about your companyand what you all are doing here
in Grand Junction and otherareas.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Yeah. Well , I appreciate that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Um, anything else you'd like to share with us
today, Jeff?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
No, I, I think I just appreciate you having me
and , uh, yeah, it's , youknow, it's, it really is full
circle since, you know, we ,uh, it's probably been 15 years
since we did a transactiontogether, one of my first
rentals. So , um, I just wannasay thanks for, you know,
having me on the, on thepodcast and thank
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You. Well, I love highlighting local business
people and love to learn aboutwhat you're doing and, and all
the ways you're hoping to makeGrand Junction a better place
to live. For sure. Yeah. Thankyou. So , um, again, Jeff
Zimmerman Fort and home , um,development, and , um, we look
forward to hearing more aboutyour project. So when, when
(33:43):
you're ready to sell those ,uh, uh, orchard Mesa , um,
homes, let us know so we canpromote them. I'm really
excited about that and excitedto see what you do downtown
more . And , um, yeah. Thankseverybody for joining us. This
is Kristy Reese, and we'll seeyou next time on the Full
Circle Podcast. Bye . Thanksfor listening. This is Kristy
Reese signing out from the FullCircle Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The Full Circle podcast, compelling interviews
and incredible tales fromColorado's Western Slope, from
the mountains to the desert.
Christy Reese and her team herefrom the Movers Shakers, and
characters of the Grand Valleyand surrounding mountain towns
that make the Western slope theplace we all love. You'll
learn, you'll laugh, you'lllove with the full circle.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Full Circle
(00:27):
Podcast. I'm your host, KristyReese, and today I'm really
excited to have as our guest,Jeff Zimmerman, president and
development manager for Fortand Home , uh, real estate
company with all kinds of armsin lots of different things.
Right, Jeff? For sure. Okay .
So we're gonna talk about a lotof your projects today. Um, you
are a Grand Junction native?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I am, yes. I was , I was , uh, born in Grand
Junction and then , uh, grew upin , uh, silk , Colorado.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Not too many people can say that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Not too many. Yeah .
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And , um, and then how did you make your way back
here? I mean, you didn't stayin Western Colorado , um, your
whole life, but you , um, wentother places and learned a lot
of different , uh, skills.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, so I went to the University of Wyoming for
school. Um, that's where I wentto college. And then after
that, I came back to GrandJunction and , um, I guess I
was chasing the money bug , sogetting in the oil and gas
industry mm-hmm
And then also finished collegeat , uh, CMU while I was , uh,
here in Grand Junction. Andthen , um, from there, you
(01:30):
know, moved to Denver, did somedevelopment there , um, and
then eventually went to Texas ,uh, for oil and gas, and then
went up to back to Denver andthen , um, up to Montana to
work on some projects, and thenmade our way back to Colorado.
Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I think a lot of people that will be listening
and watching that get excitedabout real estate investing and
, um, fix and flip or any kindof , um, venture in the real
estate world, think. Okay. Howdid you do it? And, and I'm
guessing that you took some ofyour profits from oil and gas ,
uh, and, and leapt into realestate, but how did you have
(02:10):
the confidence to do that?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, it's, it's much easier to invest in real
estate when you have a W2 job.
Mm-hmm
what I did was , um, when I wasworking in oil and gas, I would
take the, you know, money fromthe site , any , any extra
money that I had. And the firstrental that I purchased was in
2008, which is not the besttiming, but the good thing was
(02:32):
, um, it was a duplex that Ipurchased, so then I had , uh,
people living in the basement,and then I rented out about
every room I could mm-hmm
friends . So , um, covered themortgage. Um, and then, you
know, once I realized that, youknow , I could cover the cost
of where I'm living and made alittle extra money, I was , I
was hooked. So , um, went fromthere to , um, working with you
(02:54):
on purchasing a property andanother one in Grand Junction
right down the road. And I wasalways, you know, I grew up in
the , where my, my grandfatherwas in the construction
industry, so , um, I understoodlike the trade mm-hmm
So that helped me out quite abit. So a lot of it was DIY
(03:15):
mm-hmm
like HGTV and all that, yousee, you know, that there's
potential in other areas wheremaybe not in rentals, and we
got more into the fix and flipsmm-hmm
that's where we did those morein Denver. And, you know,
looking back now and looking atGrand Junction, I wish I bought
more here because have theappreciation, but, and there's
(03:37):
a little better cash flow too.
Mm-hmm
low high area in Sunnyside inDenver. And , uh, it's a
historic area where , um,there's a lot of character to
the properties mm-hmm
clo close enough to downtown towhere people would spend, you
know, a million dollars to livein a 1000 square foot house. So
(03:59):
that helped on the profit side, um, but it wasn't the cash
flow we were looking for, sothat's when we transitioned
over into more on thecommercial side.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And, and what does that look like? That's a big
leap going from residential tocommercial. It is,
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I , I read that, I read about your project in
Montana. I'm excited to hearabout that, but yeah, talk
about how you got fromresidential to commercial in
the Denver area, and then howthat translated to Montana.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, so, you know, I was looking at it on the
finance side, and when you're,when you're flipping homes,
it's more transactional. So youput all the energy in all the
work in , um, you know, to, toflip the home or to do a new
build. And then once thetransaction's over, you know,
you have to pay heavy tax andthen you're looking for the
next one. So we wanted to getaway from that, and that's why
(04:45):
we went more on the commercialside. So we said , okay, we're
looking for something where wecan improve, you know, the NOI
on a property, and thatactually increases the value.
So that's really what got me mymind thinking in a different
way to where instead of justsaying, okay, I'm basing it on
comps, then I'm trying to buildthese properties, I'm actually
increasing the cash flow ,which should increase the value
(05:05):
of the property. So that'sreally what it , the transition
took place. And that was in2017. Um,
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And, and were you , um, investing in some of these
commercial properties yourselfand keeping them, or were you
kind of doing like a fix andflip on commercial ventures?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, so it started out as a fix and flip. Um, and
then we got into , um, where wewere holding 'em mm-hmm
still hold that , you know, wepurchased in 2000 , 2018, and
there's some that we've sold.
So it really just depends on,you know, where that, where
that property sits after it'sfinished mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (05:38):
and it was your next move toMontana.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah. So our last project that we did in Denver
was 2019, and I felt that itwas getting a little frothy,
which it's not really the casebecause after covid , I mean,
we , we wish we probablywould've stayed in a little bit
longer, but for me, I , I'malways looking at, you know,
the risk side. And on thattransaction of flipping homes,
(06:04):
you don't want too many flipsgoing at one time if the , if
the market wants to gosideways. So purchasing my
first property in 2008 kind oftaught me that lesson early on
to where, you know, a propertycan be worth, you know, 220,000
and then, you know, a yearlater it's almost cut in half.
So , um, I guess it was good toget in early at that point just
(06:25):
to have that understanding, butfor us, you know, where we were
looking after that point,instead of getting, we want to
get away from the transactionside and more into commercial.
And in any downside, you know,scenario, it's always good to
have rent coming in, andespecially with more units
mm-hmm
(06:45):
different types of assets thatwe're invested in. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (06:48):
our own little episode ofBiggerPockets here. It's great.
Um, what is, what is your , um,your best advice for someone
that is wanting to get intoreal estate, adventures,
ventures or adventures and ,um, how to get started and,
(07:09):
and, you know, I'm , it'sreally hard to time the real
estate market as you were justtalking about, right? You ,
you're always evaluating, butyou never know what's coming
ahead. And so a lot of people,you know, think about , uh, I
don't wanna get in now, I'mgonna wait for things to
improve, or I'm gonna wait forthings to go down, yada, yada.
(07:30):
So give some advice on all ofthose kind of things and, and
how you can help someone that'swanting to get into real estate
fix and flip or investing.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah. So the , the first thing I'd say is choose a
niche. So we've flipped, we'vedone retail, we've done office
, we've done multi-family. AndI think the one thing that
we've learned over the years isif you could focus on one thing
and get really good at it , um,you'll be a lot better off. And
there's some scale with thatmm-hmm
(07:59):
then also making sure you havegood relationships with
lenders, investors, especiallywhen you start getting into the
commercial side, you almosthave to have, you know, some
sort of outside capital comingin to support on the projects.
And I mean, I think that's, Imean, I , that's the big one,
is just making sure that you'refocused and then knowing where
(08:20):
you want to be later on downthe road, and then shooting for
that and aiming mm-hmm
there's no deal that's too big,right? So what we, oh , what I
wish I would've learnedearlier, which is instead of
scraping together every dollarI have, and then every paycheck
that I have for extra savingsand fixing up a house, I , I
wish I would've understood thefinance side where there's
(08:42):
people out there that wannamake money on their money, and
you can scale with themtogether as a partnership. So
they're making money, you'redeveloping properties, you
still have to put some skin inthe game, whether it's sweat
equity or, you know, moneyinvolved. But , um, I think
it's just understanding thatyou can go big at the beginning
(09:02):
if you need to, and surroundingyourself with good partners to
where even like propertymanagers or a good real estate
broker, I mean, that's veryimportant to have those people
around you. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And, and developing those financial relationships
really important. Andespecially in the bigger cities
where you don't know everybodykinda like you do here, you
know, like, you know who theplayers are here, but it's,
it's really important here too,for sure. Yeah. Um, back to
Montana. So how did thathappen?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, so it was, it was one of those where, you
know, we were, we were workingin Denver and we, my wife and
I, so we actually met here inGrand Junction, and then we
moved to , to Denver together,and we're in the business
together. So she does more ofthe, the pretty stuff, right.
So she's all into the historicarchitecture and fixing things
up, and I'm more of the get itdone mm-hmm
(09:54):
Person. So it's a good combo.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah. It works out pretty well. And we just,
we really, you know, hadMontana on our mind. You know,
we, we liked the national parksand everything up there, but
there was a , a city or a townthat kind of cut our eye, and
it was on a Anthony Bourdainepisode, and it was , uh,
Butte, Montana, which is, atone point it was called the
Richest Hill. So it had themost wealthy, you know,
(10:19):
concentrated , uh, group ofpeople in one area because of a
large copper mine mm-hmm
that, the real estate in thearea is pretty amazing. Like,
it's up , up on a, on a hill,and it's the largest historic
district in the United States.
Oh , I didn't
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Realize
Speaker 3 (10:33):
That. Which is , which is kind of rare to have
in the middle of the mountains.
Mm-hmm
, and see what this is about.
So we, you know, we made thetrip up on one of our summer
trips that we did, and, youknow, we kind of , we just fell
in love. It's, and people cansee it actually what Uptown
Beat looks like in , um, ifthey watch the Yellowstone
(10:53):
Series 1923. And it's, I mean,it's still like stuck in time,
like the, the architecture andthe views. It's, it's pretty
amazing. And
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So I love that series 1923, and I, I , now I
need to go back and watch itand, and look for your
building. Yeah. Do you stillown that?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah. So what was the hotel Bozeman in, in the
series? That's actually ourbuilding. We still own it. So
Harrison Ford and I , I can'tremember who the other, is it
Meryl Streep ? Something likethat ? No,
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's , um, gimme a minute. I'll think of it. Keep
going. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
But anyway, they were, I mean, the , the scenes
that they did it was prettyfunny because Paramount
actually rented our space fromus. So they set it up to make,
look , make it look like ahotel and everything. And they
hung a sign on the outside thatsaid Hotel Bozeman, which kind
of upset the people in Buttebecause they're not like, Hey,
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It's Butte , come on. Yeah .
Speaker 3 (11:45):
But yeah, we still own that one. And then we , uh,
developed another property,which was the first one we
purchased up there, which isthe O'Rourke building. And
there was a 26 unit , um,apartment building, and at the,
like, the time , and it wasbuilt, it was pretty, it was
pretty luxurious. Um, I mean,all the details that , um, it ,
you know, they put into it whenthey built it, but when we
(12:07):
purchased it, when the roof wascaving in, it was pretty rough.
So , um, we had, you know, thefacade, and that's the
important part to those typesof buildings, because we, what
we do is we go down to thestuds anyway, so it wasn't that
big of a deal. So we , we wentin, we got it. And you know,
luckily there's very supportivethere in , in Butte , um,
because it's , uh, you know,the largest historic district
(12:30):
and there's a lot of creditsand grants and things like that
to where they'll helpincentivize the development.
Um, so, you know, we just wentinto it and most people call
this crazy crazy, 'cause Imean, we went from flipping
houses to, you know, 15, 20,000square foot historic buildings.
And the reason, you know, wewere looking at it is 'cause it
(12:50):
was affordable. Right. So, andI, I say that in quotes because
yeah , it's a , it's affordableto purchase the property, but,
you know, all that goes into itafter the fact. It's not
really. So
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Those , yeah, those old buildings are full of
surprises, aren't they? Theyare . Yeah. You do one thing
and then you have five moreissues you didn't know about
before.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Exactly. Yeah . But I mean, the way that the
building's turned out, it ,it's pretty amazing. And I give
most of the credit to my wife,you know, for all the details
and everything that she putinto it. And we had 'em all
pre-sold by the time we werefinished. And it was, it was
kind of a nice get away fromColorado. 'cause we purchased
the buildings in 2017, 2018range. But during Covid we
(13:32):
moved up there, and at thatpoint we only had one daughter.
Um, so it was nice to kind ofseparate from what was going on
in Colorado, and it was just alittle more of a small town,
and it was quiet there inButte. So it was nice to, you
know, work through thoseprojects. And , um, our second
daughter was actually born inButte, so , um, yeah , so we
have some other propertiesthere as well. So Multifamilies
(13:54):
and, you know, retail , um,condo conversions that we've
done. And, you know, we justgot to the point where when you
have young kids, it's uh , it'ssometimes nice to be close to
family. So we, we realized wewere a little too far away. So
we moved back to Colorado andat that point , um, that's when
we were looking at some otherprojects. And you know, we, my
wife and I, you know, we were ,um, we went to college here and
(14:17):
in Grand Junction, I'm from thearea and , um, I have multiple
generations of family membershere. So, you know, this is
kind of an area where we arelooking at, we say, Hey, this
is, you know, a path toprogress and we're to Butte .
And , um, that's when wepurchased the, the Melrose, the
Hotel Melrose. And yeah, it was, uh, it was pretty rough as
well. Um, but there's somethingabout the historic buildings,
(14:39):
because you can't really, Imean, it's all about what they
say is location, location,location. And with historic
buildings, they're pretty muchin the best locations, right?
They're on the main streets,they're downtown. So, you know,
we wanted to , uh, dip our toesa little bit more on, into ,
um, the hospitality side. And ,uh, we like the historic
(15:00):
buildings. And we had someother projects here too , some
multifamily properties. But ,um, there's a split between my
wife and I. So I'm more of afinance person, so mm-hmm
know, seven unit apartmentbuilding, it's pretty common
cash flow . I like that side.
Yeah . But my wife says, okay,we're gonna fix this hotel up
and it's gonna be the best. Andshe, she focuses on that side.
(15:23):
But, you know, looking at itnow, it's much better to hold
an asset that's, you put theenergy into the work into and
spend the money on it. Right.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, I, I love that you work together on that. And
I think that anybody that hasvisited the Melrose will say,
great job on the design. Imean, what a beautiful
building. And it's got such anice feel. Love the bar,
haven't, you know, stayed inthe rooms, but , um, would love
to , um, see the whole building'cause it just looks beautiful.
(15:52):
Um, talk a little bit about theaesthetic and, and what your
wife's goal was for the feel ofthe building, if you can speak
to that. Yeah,
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So, you know, of course, like I was talking
about earlier, you, you wannamake sure you partner with the
right group. So , um,Chamberlain architects are here
in town and, you know, theyhave some experience on the
historic side. So they helpedus lay it out. And then, you
know, there's Danielle , mywife Danielle also worked with
some, some designers in town aswell too , to kind of come up
(16:23):
exactly with what, what shewanted for the, you know, the
final, the final feel and lookof the building. Um , which it,
it definitely wasn't easy if,if you visit the place, the ,
the walls are, you know, prettydark blue. And , um, that's
kind of a, it's a handful of aproject on the construction
sites , so painting andeverything else. But I mean,
(16:44):
the way it turned out was, wasgreat. And for me, you know,
what I'm really looking at iscost control. So
go into these historicbuildings and you have to do,
he piers on the outside. 'causethe, you know, the , it's a
whole old historic buildingbuilt in 1918, I believe, or
16, so like that, or 1906. Soit's pretty old. Yeah . So
(17:06):
know, what I'm looking at onwith our construction team is
we go in and we say, okay, whatdo we need to do here? And then
how do we do it so it pencilsat the same time? So , um, and
I think that, you know, when westarted, we were, we were
looking at the property more askeeping it the way it was, so
(17:27):
not investing as much becauseit was shared bathrooms, but
after Covid, that's not really,that's kind of frowned upon,
right? You don't want to besharing bathrooms.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Oh , yeah. Covid changed that a little bit,
didn't it?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
It did. So ,
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So right in the middle of your project, Uhhuh.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
after Covid. And , um, youknow, we, we looked at it and I
think it was 23 rooms withmaybe four bathrooms in there
that people shared. And I thinkit was an affordable stay for
people. Um, and it was stilloperating when we purchased it,
but it wasn't operating at thefull potential mm-hmm
(18:01):
suites. And then for me, I'mlooking at the risk of it. So I
say, okay, if we have anothercovid and hospitality decides
to go, you know, in , into thedump again , um, I want to make
sure that we have a backup plan. So we put full kitchens in to
where we could turn 'em intorentals if we needed to. So
technically it could be a 16unit apartment building mm-hmm
(18:23):
on the hospitality side if youoperate it properly. So , um,
we have that as had that as thebackup plan. But I felt pretty
good about the 16 rooms thatare , you know, spacious and ,
um, well designed byChamberlain. Yeah . You know?
And ,
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And was it always your goal to have , um, a non
hosted , uh, hospitalitybuilding like that? I think
it's a great concept.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah. So, you know, doing our research and, you
know, talking to consultantsduring the, the period, you
know, when we're going throughthe planning side, they say,
really , um, you have to haveat least 40 rooms to where
you're staffed up. Um, and weknew that we couldn't fit that
in the square footage that wehad, so we really didn't have
another option if we wanted tomake sure that the numbers are
(19:12):
gonna work. So , um, and it isfully automated, so people can
go in on their cell phone ,they can scan, they can get
into their rooms , they can getinto the front door mm-hmm
focus more on, like, genuinehospitality is kind of the ,
the brand for the hotel. Um, soreally instead of a front desk
person, we want more of like apersonal concierge. And we
(19:34):
think we can do that with 16rooms to where we actually have
people supports of somebodymakes a phone call, they have
somebody to talk to, you cantext your phone, you can talk,
say you need a towel, orwhatever. So it's just, it's
just changing a little bit, butit's , it's actually providing
a better service. So we want itto be the service of like a
four seasons that you get, butnot the cost that comes with
(19:56):
it.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Well, and the consumers are really used to
the kind of VRBO model whereyou're kind of on your own, but
you have contact for somebodywhen you need something. But
this takes it up a level forsure. A little more concierge.
Yeah. And how's your occupancybeen?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, so in a , in a hotel like that, I mean,
revenue's the most important tous. So we're going more towards
the , the higher average dailyrate than the occupancy. Um ,
but Occupancy's been, you know, pretty solid for the first
year of operation on it. Um ,but I mean, the , the rates go,
we have people that are bookingrooms for $500 a night, you
(20:32):
know, in the peak seasons. Andreally that's who we want to
focus on because we're in thehotel zone when we're , we
don't want to compete with atrue or a Hampton Inn mm-hmm
, like compete with them. Wewant to be more of the boutique
stay for somebody looking forthe experience. Mm-hmm
amount of people that comefrom, I mean, all over the
(20:53):
world, they're coming to GrandJunction and they'll stay in
our hotel because they wantthat experience, they want the
wine country, they wanna stayin a nice place. Mm-hmm
owns that and he does a greatjob. Yeah . Um , and I think
that's, that's one of thethings where it just kind of
sets it, you know, a littlehigher bar than everything else
for the competition around. So.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, I want to talk about your affordable housing
project that you are working onout in Orchard Mesa. Where do
you wanna start talking aboutthat? Yeah , how'd you come up
with the idea, I guess?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yeah. So we actually purchased a mobile home park,
and , um, there's a lot ofrules around mobile home parks
that have changed over the lastfive years. So, and especially
since we first purchased it.
Um, but you know, what, what welike to do is we don't, we
don't wanna be slumlords,right? We don't, that's not the
business we're in. We wannamake sure that when we provide
(21:51):
a product, it's the best. And ,um, we didn't feel that, you
know, putting new modularhousing or even older modular
housing into an area to wherethere's other mobile home parks
in the area , um, we wanted tomake sure that we, we could
provide something to the marketthat , um, we can, I guess fill
(22:14):
the gap on the affordabilityside, but it, just because it's
affordable doesn't mean it, itcan't be nice mm-hmm
planning department and City ofGrand Junction, and this is
definitely a unique projectbecause we call it a mobile ho
mobile home park conversion. Sothe homes are laid out similar,
(22:35):
similar setbacks as a mobilehome to where, you know , I
mean, that you think about,like, when mobile home parks
were usually built was in theseventies, sixties, seventies
when inflation was high. Andit's kind of happening again to
where people can't reallyafford an affordable home,
right? Mm-hmm
An entry level home, and wewant to be able to fill that
gap, but still have a qualitycommunity that they could live
(22:57):
in. So we're doing stick buildhomes, and they'll range from
six to 700 square feet, whichis, you know, small, but for
somebody that's an entry , youknow, home buyer mm-hmm
$300,000 and still have, youknow, a dog park and a , you
know, a green space for theirkids to play, or , um, somebody
(23:21):
that's maybe like an emptynester that's downsizing from ,
um, a larger home. I thinkthat's really what we're trying
to get to. And you know, yousee these in a lot of
retirement communities to wherepeople are doing the, what they
call model homes in a, youknow, RV park or mobile homes ,
um, to where they don't maybeneed like a big home they don't
(23:41):
need , uh,
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, like down in Arizona. Yeah. What do they
call those? Not, they don'tcall 'em mobile home parks.
They call 'em what? Mobilecommunities, or, I can't
remember.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, so they're usually model homes, I believe
they call 'em. And they have tobe under 400 square feet, but
so what we're doing, and theyhave to be on wheels
technically, even thoughthey're not. Um , and that's
what a tiny home is considered.
Um , so we're going a step upto, we're making it larger, and
then, then we can do afoundation, excuse me, we can
do a foundation under 'em. Sothen, you know, technically
(24:15):
they can get traditionalfinancing on these properties
mm-hmm
have DHOA that covers all the,you know , cutting grass and
trash and everything else. Soif somebody wanted to say, live
in Grand Junction that , um,wanted a second home, it's a
good way to do it to where theycan be in a good community or
maybe somebody on the entrylevel side to where they're not
(24:37):
ready to buy a $500,000 entrylevel home, but they can come
in and they could own their ownproperty. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (24:43):
right now?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, so right now we're going through planning
and zoning , um, wrapping allthat up, so it took a little
bit longer and, you know, we'reglad that we went that route
because the property startedout with 12 units mobile homes,
and it was zoned for 26. Um,but it couldn't actually fit 26
homes on the park. And I don'tknow exactly like how they set
(25:09):
those rules, but , um, just bygoing through and getting the
variance and going throughplanning and the zoning, we
we're able to get 30 homes onthere. So it's actually laid
out quite a bit better. Somobile, and I , I don't wanna
bore you with all the details,but the mobile home park rules
in Colorado say it's like onein , one out, so it doesn't
matter the way the home wasactually set on the property,
(25:29):
it has to go back in that samespot mm-hmm
Which doesn't make the mostsense for, you know,
functionality. So , um, it tooka little bit longer on the
planning and zoning side, but,you know, we're glad that we,
we did it , that we did it thatway. Mm-hmm
then, so while we're, you know,going through that side and
working on the landinfrastructure and everything
else, we're actually buildingthe homes off site , so on the
(25:51):
manufacturing side, and we'rerepurposing , um, some units
that we have , um, in the oiland gas industry and converting
those over, and we're alsodoing some stick builds . And
then that's really what sparkedthe interest for us on the
manufacturing side. So in GrandJunction, we're gonna be
putting in a facility to wherewe can start putting more units
through in a condition space,and then doing the same thing
(26:13):
and repeating in this marketand other markets around the
area. Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (26:17):
That's exciting. So you already have a facility?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Um , not quite yet, no. It's working
Speaker 2 (26:21):
On that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Okay. So we're doing everything out.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And when do you expect , um, for this
affordable , um, housingproject to be ready for people
to start purchasing? Yeah,
Speaker 3 (26:31):
So it'll be this summer.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Great. Yeah. And , um, who do you think your ,
your most likely buyer is?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I think it's gonna be people like me when I first
started out mm-hmm
gonna be somebody that'slooking to make an investment
in a property, whether theyactually live in the property
or, you know, you couldpurchase it to rent it out,
because that's where thenumbers are gonna make sense at
a, you know, lower price perqua , per per square foot, but
the rents are still stable atthat number. So , um, I think
(26:59):
you're gonna have your entrylevel, you're gonna have your
investors, and I think you'realso gonna have the empty
nesters looking to downsize andmaybe they live in multiple
markets.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I think that, you know, like at the beginning of
our conversation, we're talkingabout real estate investing,
and of course , uh, those of usthat work in the real estate
industry believe in investingin real estate as a , a wealth
building tool. So , um, youknow, I think it's so important
for people to understand thatthey can get in at any stage,
right? They , they don't haveto start with a $400,000 home
(27:31):
or the average home, they justneed to get in, right? Mm-hmm
condo, a town home , a tinyhome, an affordable , um, uh,
situation , um, get into thereal estate market, right? For
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Sure. You have to build equity. Yep . That the
only way to build it is to buysomething and Yep . And, and
making sure you're buyingright, of course. But , um, I,
I believe I'm pretty bullish in, in the Grand junction market.
Mm-hmm . And I think that , youknow, it's definitely has a lot
more upside potential. Um, butyeah, I agree with you a
hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And then what's next? So you're gonna be
manufacturing some , um,smaller homes to be put on
sites all around WesternColorado, Western United
States? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So, so offsite construction is our focus , um,
whether it's a single , um, andthey're, they're modular, but
once they're on theirfoundation, they're actually
considered stick built , butit's really offsite
construction. And then what,you know, our other focus is
like on the multifamily side.
So we have a 12 unit apartmentbuilding that's starting in
(28:37):
Montana that uses the sameconcept to where , um, the
module units can be. So there'ssome companies that are outta
Salt Lake that we're, you know,looking to, to work with on
this, but , um, they'll come asa module unit to where if it's
a fourplex, you have fourmodule units, you stack it
together, similar to some ofthe apartment buildings that
(28:59):
are mm-hmm
construction, just to controlcosts and, you know, quality
control and everything else.
That's really where we'refocused because what we found
in the market is, it's reallytough, especially in markets
like Montana, where you have ashore building window, you may
only have five to six months towhere you can build something,
(29:19):
it's tough to actually get itdone, but if you have it
offsite and you do yourfoundation work and then you
hop , you know, do all youroffsite construction, you send
it on a truck and then you geta train or a crane to, to set
the units, then you know, youcould be done in, you know,
three to four months. So that'sreally our focus on the control
, the controlling the costs ,and, you know, I think Grand
Junction's a good market for itbecause, you know, you're on I
(29:41):
70 and you, there's definitelya need for a lot of affordable
housing mm-hmm
Um, so that's why we like it.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Awesome. And you have any other upcoming
projects in Grand Junction thatyou wanna share with us?
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Um, I mean, we're always looking at projects, but
, um, over by the , uh, theMelrose we're looking to expand
and maybe even build onto thehotel a little bit more , um,
to add some rooms to get tothat above 40 , um, units now
that's maybe, you know, three,three years down the road
mm-hmm
know, we're always looking for,you know, properties on the
(30:18):
path to progress. We like thehistoric side. Um, so we're,
we're always on the look for,for properties mm-hmm
especially the downtown is, isdefinitely, you know, set for
growth.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah. A lot of good things happening there downtown
Palisade and Fruita , twowonderful communities and just
so much charm and character forsure. Yeah. Um, looking through
your website , um, there's alot of resources there for
people. Do you wanna talkabout, you know, you wanna
attract people to your websiteto look at the resources that
you offer?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, so I think for us, the main thing is
education. So I want to provide, um, that education that I
didn't have, right? So I'dprobably be in a lot different
spot right now, if, you know,YouTube is where it is now ,
um, just from everything youcan learn. Um, so, you know,
we've, we've tried to do ourbest to track our projects on,
(31:14):
you know, YouTube from when westart to completion, just to
kind of give that education,but then also show like, Hey ,
you know, we're, you know,we're actually doing these
things, we're not, you know,just talking about it. So , um,
I think that's a big thing onour website. And then , um, you
know, if there's, there'spartners or investors that are
in a market, I think we, youknow, we provide that, that
(31:36):
opportunity for people toinvest in Main Street in their
town. And I don't think thatthere's, you know, many
opportunities like that outthere, and especially on a
concentration. So we're notsaying that we're investing in
projects everywhere. We'resaying, okay, we like Grand
Junction, we like Butte, youknow, we like these certain
markets and, you know, ifpeople are aligned with what
we're, what we're doing, youknow, we welcome them to, to
(31:59):
reach out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So investing opportunities for people in ,
um, uh, what would you call it,A Coor consortium?
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah. So we do, we do it through fund models or
syndication. So we've donepretty much everything on the ,
those types of options to wheresyndication is usually just one
investment. So if somebody justwanted to come in and say,
okay, I wanna invest in anapartment building, or, you
know , uh, manufacturing,housing or whatever it is, that
can be one investment orthere's options of funds to
(32:30):
where you can be diversifiedover multiple markets. Um , so
we've done, we've done both.
Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Wealth of information. Yeah. I encourage
everybody. What's the, give usyour website address?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, it's , uh, forton home.com.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And that's F-O-R-T-A-N-D, not a plus.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Incorrect . Yeah .
Okay . A-N-D-H-O-M e.com. Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Um, yeah, really, really great information for
people that are looking tolearn more about investing and
learn more about your companyand what you all are doing here
in Grand Junction and otherareas.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Yeah. Well , I appreciate that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Um, anything else you'd like to share with us
today, Jeff?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
No, I, I think I just appreciate you having me
and , uh, yeah, it's , youknow, it's, it really is full
circle since, you know, we ,uh, it's probably been 15 years
since we did a transactiontogether, one of my first
rentals. So , um, I just wannasay thanks for, you know,
having me on the, on thepodcast and thank
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You. Well, I love highlighting local business
people and love to learn aboutwhat you're doing and, and all
the ways you're hoping to makeGrand Junction a better place
to live. For sure. Yeah. Thankyou. So , um, again, Jeff
Zimmerman Fort and home , um,development, and , um, we look
forward to hearing more aboutyour project. So when, when
(33:43):
you're ready to sell those ,uh, uh, orchard Mesa , um,
homes, let us know so we canpromote them. I'm really
excited about that and excitedto see what you do downtown
more . And , um, yeah. Thankseverybody for joining us. This
is Kristy Reese, and we'll seeyou next time on the Full
Circle Podcast. Bye . Thanksfor listening. This is Kristy
Reese signing out from the FullCircle Podcast.
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