Uniforms

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Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. We're going to talk about uniforms this episode.

As usual we start with Edge sharing his experience with this kink and then something different. Instead of a "how to" segment and interview we're combining and doing a how to interview with Steve, who has taught classes on uniforms.

Related Links

• Find Steve on Instagram as @mentor.dad.sir
• Steve recommends Quartermaster but it looks like that's become Galls.

Support the show

Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:05):
Okay, let's talk about uniforms
this podcast contains materialintended for a mature audience.
Before proceeding, please checkyour local laws and confirm that
you are an adultWelcome to full cow, a podcast

(00:38):
about leather kink and BDSM Myname is edge My pronouns are he
him and I am your host. Thisepisode we will be discussing
uniforms. And there's somethinga little different about this
episode. regular listeners knowthat I usually do three
segments. instead. This timewe're only doing two. In the

(00:59):
first segment I will share myexperience and story of
uniforms. And then I'm combiningthe normal second how to segment
and the normal third interviewsegment. Having an interview how
to with a special friend of thepodcast, one of my very best
friends Steve, who will talk tous about putting together

(01:22):
uniforms, while sharing his ownexperiences with uniforms as a
fetish. Once again, I think it'sa really great episode. So let's
get started.
Now leather has always been myheart, my home. But I think it's

(01:42):
difficult for anyone to movethrough the world of leather and
kink and not feel the particularresonance of uniforms of all
kinds, although not always inunproblematic ways.
And certainly, for leather folkof a certain age, leather folk

(02:02):
of my generation. There is aparticular key moment that we
all experienced. And that is theTV show, chips. Chips was run in
the middle sort of cop showfocused, however, on the
California Highway Patrol,starring Erik Estrada and Larry
Wilcox, and I can't tell youanything about the show except

(02:27):
Erik Estrada. And Larry Wilcoxhad these gorgeous, well fitting
California Highway Patroluniforms. And Erik Estrada
always had tight black gloves.
For some reason, if you look atphotos from the show, Larry
Wilcox has in these weird toolong too big tan gloves. I don't
get it. But someone home thatshow, I have to imagine was

(02:50):
queer and kinky to have designedthat particular aesthetic,
because it is embedded in thememories in the souls of many of
us who grew up of a certain age,with a certain kink another
inclination, and who saw thatshow. So even though my first
pursuit was not uniforms, myfirst pursuit was leather. The

(03:14):
seed of a uniform interest wasplanted very deep in me, as well
as, of course, my core fetish oftight black leather gloves.
So most of my early explorationwas really more around leather.
And then 1995 Now, let me saythat my memory is funny. Or

(03:39):
maybe everyone's memory worksthis way. You know, I'm, I'm of
a certain age I am in my early50s, and years kind of collapse
together, you know, ranges oftwo to three years all become
one year to me, because rightnow, I'm trying to remember
something that's almost 30 yearsago, but to my memory 9095 was a

(04:01):
kind of landmark year for me,because, number one, I grew a
mustache for the first time. Andthat opened up a whole new field
of leather folk who wereinterested in me. Number two, I
got into cigars. And numberthree, I got into uniforms. And
it was through that combinationthat I was like some Pokeyman

(04:26):
evolving. I leveled up in theleather community. I had access
to new fetishes, new scenes, andnew Delicious, delicious men.
So sometime in the late 1900s, Iended up connecting with this
guy who lived in thePhiladelphia area. His name is

(04:46):
Dan. He's still around. I havenot spoken to him. Whoo. In
decades, but I know he's stillaround. Dan was super hot. And
one of the things that was superhot about him is he made and
still makes his own leatheruniforms, and also cigar smoker.
And we had this really amazingsexual chemistry and I had so
much fun with him. And he wasthe one who helped me put

(05:09):
together my first uniform. Itwas from my home city, New
Orleans, I put together a NewOrleans police uniform. I will
say things were easier in thelate 1900s. In the era before
911, you could walk up to anyrandom airline airport gate that
you wanted. And you could getaccess to uniform things a

(05:33):
little more easily. At thattime, there were a lot of
conventions of collectors whowould trade patches and badges
and so through down and througha friend I think he had, I was
able to get the patches and Iwas able to get an actual New
Orleans police badge, actualauthentic match, which I still
have as a collector's item. Ofcourse, he also told me where to

(05:56):
go shopping and what to get. SoI was able to kind of put
together my first uniform. Allof this is in the very, very
early days of the internet. Soit's not like I could go to
Amazon and just click a button.
It took a little bit of work andresearch and a lot of sort of
local shopping at local uniformsupply stores. And Dan was

(06:19):
really my entry point anduniforms really helped me
understand them really helped meput together that first year.
Now.
As my memory serves me,imperfectly, through Dan, I met
this super hot guy in New Yorknamed Bill, I think it was Bill,
Bill, I hope your name is Bill.
Bill, also super hot also intouniforms, also into cigars,

(06:41):
wrote a motorcycle. And he alsointroduced me to breath control.
He was the first person to putme out with a sleeper hold. And
I loved that. And we played, youknow, probably I think I played
more with Dan, but I was playingwith Bill. Now. As my imperfect
memory serves me, Bill knew thisguy, Leon. And Leon was starting

(07:02):
this sort of club for peopleinto preaches and uniforms. And
it was called bluff. And that ishow I became bluff. Seven.
You know, one of the best thingsabout being bluff seven is that
I almost always win the bluffgame where people are like, Oh,

(07:26):
I'm number 203. And I like Oh,I'm seven. And I think people
when they see that I'm numberseven. They think somehow that's
important. It's not. What itmeans is that I have been around
for a very long time. I havebeen online for a very long

(07:50):
time. And most critically, I wasaround and online with the right
people at the right moment. Andthat is how I ended up bluff
seven. There's nothing magicalabout that. So I joined bluff.
And I joined with photos of meand my cloth uniform. You know,

(08:10):
people often think like there'sthis big barrier to bluff
because you need a leatheruniform. Actually, no, you just
need a uniform. And clothuniforms can be a lot more
affordable, and a lot moreaccessible. And that's something
we'll discuss in our furthersegments.
After joining bluff, I want tosay it was a couple years after

(08:31):
that, that I got my first actualleather uniform. And I think
I've mentioned before that whenI was coming out into leather,
the default cultural imaginaryimage of the leather man, the
one that I saw in art, or on barposters, or the one I carried
around in my head was a man withfacial hair, of course, in a

(08:54):
biker jacket, and chapsat some point that shifted
somewhere in the late 1900s.
That shifted and the defaultimage became the leather
uniform. This isn't to say thatleather uniforms didn't exist.
But it wasn't for me, in myexperience, the default image as

(09:14):
I was growing up in my earlydays of leather, but it became
so and my first leather uniformwas custom made by David St.
DomainKeys in New York who wasstill around and I think still
making custom leather. It hadthis sort of gray stripe down
the side with a lighter graypiping at codpiece on the

(09:35):
breeches. And I'm not even sureI remember the shirt that well.
I do not have that uniformanymore. But I specifically
remember it was my first leatheruniform. And then in the late
1900s. Again,T Tino who was a letter maker.
That's when I really rememberedleather uniforms exploding was
Tinos uniforms, and they wereeverywhere now

(10:00):
granted, I was in the New Yorkarea. And that was a very local
field to be saturated. But forme sometime in the late
millennium, that's when leatheruniforms moved more centrally.
These days, leather uniform issort of the default thing I
wear. And in fact, I oftenbemoan in my head that I don't

(10:23):
have shirts that aren't uniformshirts. But you know, I've tried
polos, they're really hard tofit, they're really hard to get
on. They have zippers, which Ifeel are a little inelegant.
I've tried a lace I had a laceup shirt. Again, any shirt
that's not buttoning up thefront, you're gonna need a
zipper on the side. And I alwaysfeel that's a little inelegant

(10:44):
of a solution. And I never feellike the fit is right. But part
of me certainly wishes I hadmore shirt options, and I will
continue to explore that. But ifyou open up the leather closet,
the right side is all shirts,and they are all leather uniform
shirts, with a couple of vestsand the left side is all pants,
and there are a number ofbreaches. So that's the primary

(11:07):
thing I wear these days is alovely uniform, I do have some
cloth uniforms.
I still have my New Orleansuniform. I don't really wear it,
I don't love it, I you know,because polyester fabric does
not have the same appeal to methat leather has. I do however,
have a CHP uniform harkeningback to chips. And I had a

(11:32):
tailored tailoring is awonderful thing, you know, get
things fitted to you. And thenthey always look good. And that
uniform looks good. It's alittle sausage, I kind of have
to squeeze into it a little bit.
Because you know, buddy shiftand change, but it's probably
the only cloth uniform, I have,that I wear. I also have a San
Francisco uniform. And I havesome uniforms. I've just

(11:54):
imagined, you know, if you goshopping, and again, we'll talk
about this in the next segment,you can get all kinds of patches
from places you've never heardof, they have patches with bears
on them and things like that. Soyou can sort of assemble fantasy
types of uniforms that don'trepresent one particular actual
police force, which sometimes isa really good thing to do.

(12:16):
I think it's also worth notingthat uniforms are not
unproblematic in a country, in aworld where there is systemic
police violence against peopleof color. And I've seen a lot of
controversy about this online.
And I know I've also seen peoplefrom my generation saying, Hey,

(12:40):
I understand your trauma, Iunderstand systemic violence.
But for our generation wearinguniform was an act of defiance.
Because queers were subjected topolice harassment to police
violence. And so to take thatuniform was a particular
rebellious act of resistance.
I think as a community, we needto have a larger conversation.

(13:04):
And that's hard because, as I'vetalked about before, there is no
singular community. There aresets of communities, we have no
central governing body, we haveno central forum, to discuss
issues to shape, who we are, asa community aware we want to go,
we have social media, which canbe very fractured and very

(13:24):
fractious, and can often notlead to conversation or
consensus, but to cancellation.
So I don't know how that's goingto happen. But at some point, as
a community, we need to figureout, what do we want to do about
uniforms? Because the truth is,as King stirs we are drawn to
archetypes that reflectextraordinarily asymmetric

(13:49):
relations of power, masters,militaries, police forces, these
things are often violent, oftenoppressive, often politically
tricky, shall we say? And yet,we appropriate them. And perhaps
in doing that, we reinscribetheir meaning to some extent,

(14:11):
I'm not making that claim. WhatI'm saying is, it's not unusual
for us to play with extremes ofpower, and the roles that come
with them. That's part of whatwe do. We are a power dynamic
community. And that doesn't meanthat we should blindly accept
all roles, all insignia, andpursue that, but it means that

(14:34):
we need to find a way to havesome sort of discussion as a
community. Because right now,what we have is safe, sane,
conceptual, and what we have isrisk aware King, and neither of
those really take intoconsideration any sort of
cultures or politics, or largerstatements we want to make about

(14:55):
who we are and who we want tobe. So that might be a
conversation that comesAt some point in the future, for
now, I have actually pulledback, some of the police see
things I do particularly in myplay, because I'm not quite as
comfortable with them in thecurrent climate. That's my
personal decision. I do continueto wear quite a few leather

(15:15):
uniforms. My uniforms generallydon't have patches, they are
fairly generic, they could justas easily be military as police.
But has that remains the defaultposition for the leather person
in the imaginary it is where myheart and home is, it is where I
ended up being. And for now,it's one going to be and that is

(15:38):
my history of my personaljourney in relation to leather
uniforms. I hope that your ownhistory offers you
offers you joy and excitementand comfort.
And I hope that you're able tonavigate the sort of uniform

(16:00):
waters, the way that serves youbest, and the way in which
connects you to others. Becausecommunity is about connection.
And I'm very pleased to welcomea special friend of the podcast,

(16:21):
one of my best friends, Steve,Steve, welcome to full cow.
Well, thank you. Thank you.
It's, it's wonderful to be here.
It's wonderful to have you. Socould you start by telling us
your pronouns and how youidentify in the community? Sure.
pronouns are he him? And whenyou mean how identify in the

(16:42):
community, is that sort of myrole? Or is that like my screen
name and Okay, so, so I'm a I'ma top guy, I'm a domme
mostly because I don't trustother people. But yeah, I'm and
my screen name go by mentor deadsir on a couple of different
platforms. And people might knowme as a recognized officer

(17:06):
Stevens, I used to go by that.
There are still pics of mefloating around on tumblr and
various places as OfficerStevens. So, and that's
something I think we'll want todiscuss later in this segment,
why you made that name change.
But for starters, you know, forpeople who are sort of just
tuning in, normally, thispodcast has two separate

(17:28):
segments, one a how to and thenan interview. But because
Steve's a special friend of thepodcast, and because he actually
teaches a class that has done sorepeatedly on uniforms, we're
going to combining the How toand the interview, and Steve's
going to talk us through puttingtogether a uniform and uniform

(17:49):
fetish in general. So, Steve, gofor it. When, when edge asked me
to, if I wanted to be on thepodcast and what we might talk
about, you know, there were acouple of different things and
interests that edge and I sharebut the police uniforms was kind
of an obvious one to talk about.
And I guess I want to bracketthis by saying that there are

(18:11):
there's lots of differentuniform fetishes out there. You
know, I am going to be talkingabout police uniforms, but
you'll see plenty of guys thatare into military uniforms, you
know, fatigues and boots andthat stuff, or even medical
stuff. Lots of people havemedical fetishes. There's even a
story I heard about I didn't Ididn't witness this. So if it's

(18:33):
not true, it really ought to beyears ago, I heard about
somebody who wore a lettercarriers uniform to a pup Mosh
at a an event and so all thepups lost their minds and chased
the the postal worker sothere's, there's lots of lots of
different ways and you know,some guys are in good and also
sanitation worker uniforms,which then crossover with the

(18:56):
blue collar, but also sort ofthe grungy kind of thing. Oh,
yeah, you know, I hadn'tencountered that but that makes
perfect sense. And I'm alsoseeing guys that are into like
UPS, you know, delivery driveruniforms and that sort of thing.
Right. So yeah, there's there'salso your I got your package

(19:18):
for this package, buddy. I know.
Right? Yeah. I mean, it's sothere's all sorts of different
uniforms, but kind of what I aminto, and what I know the most
about are police uniforms. Sothat's, that's what I'm going to
be talking about here. And I Ialso want to you know,
foreground This is that the factthat I'm I mean to police
uniforms, really brings with ita lot of privilege. You know, I

(19:43):
am I'm a 50 Somethingcisgendered white guy. And aside
from a couple of speedingtickets over the years, I've
never really had a seriousnegative encounter with law
enforcement. SoFor that reason, this finish
that they have, can be is saferthan it would be for lots of

(20:05):
other people, too many peoplecan say the same that they've
never had that, you know,negative series encounter. So, I
do recognize that the, myinterest in police uniforms is
something of a luxury. And as wealluded to a moment ago, my
fetish really, really gotcomplicated in 2020,

(20:28):
for obvious reasons, and I stillremember the day I've been
thinking about making a namechange for a long time, but I
still remember the day when Isaid, All right, I can't do this
anymore. I gotta stop this. Andso, you know, I took down my
profiles for a while and andwrack my brain to come up with a
new screen name. And I arrivedat mentor dead sir.

(20:53):
So I made that change. Since2020, I haven't worn realistic
police uniforms, either inpublic or on social media, I
stick to things that are sort ofmore fantasy kind of things, or
things that are not realistic. Idon't know if that will change,
I don't know if I'll get back tothe more realistic stuff. Or if

(21:16):
this is just where my fetish is,for now. And obviously, fetishes
can change over time. I'm soglad you brought this up. You
know, I talked a little bit inthe first segment where I was
talking about my experience withuniforms. And I've had the same
experience. And in part inspiredby you, like I was really, it
really struck me the kind ofintegrity you had to be self

(21:37):
reflective about that in thathistorical moment. So I'm really
grateful that you are privilegedforward and kind of indicating
that this is that are and I'malso 50s, white sis guy, right.
But I have seen a lot of thesame privilege you have. And I
do think it's something we needto think about and also talk
about as a community. Agree,agreed. And, you know, part of

(22:01):
what I really, really like aboutthe uniform is, when I wear it
in a public setting, and thereaction that I can get, and
the, you know, the events of2020. I just I could imagine too
many of the people that I careabout just having a very
different reaction to you know,me presenting myself in public

(22:23):
in that way. So, you know, Idecided to take a step back from
that, that and the fact thatwith the pandemic, I gained
weight, so I can't really fitvery easily into my more
realistic uniforms. But thatwill change. Right weight
fluctuates over time. But yeah,so I think there's a, you know,
I want to talk a little bitabout why, why I have this

(22:45):
fetish or why anybody, you know,might have a fetish for police
uniforms. And I think a goodpercentage of the audience will
just get right, you don't needto be tutored on that. But the
way I think about it is thatmuch of BDSM is about power
imbalance, right? Either inwhole or in part there's,

(23:05):
there's a power imbalance that Ithink we kind of it drives a lot
of that. And police officers areinvested with power, they're
invested in with the power ofthe state. So from that
perspective, you know, that theyhave a heightened authority that
can be attractive, it certainlywas and is attractive to me. If

(23:29):
you're, if you're a DOM guy, youmay be wanting to assume that
power. And if you're a sub guyor gal, I guess, you you might
want to serve or be dominated bythat power. So that's kind of
how I see where a lot of thiscomes from. Also, kind of, since
I'm male oriented, I'm a gayman. So I'm attracted to men.

(23:54):
Police are, again, my privilegescene, they have a role as
protectors and enforcers of lawand order. So from that
perspective, they have a certainmasculine energy, you know,
they're masculine and active.
And those are all things that Ifind attractive. So that's kind
of where it comes from.

(24:14):
For me, some of my earliestindications that I was kinky
really came from my fascinationwith with police officers, male
police officers specifically,that was really, you know, as a
teenager, the first indication Ihad that there was you know,
something a little bit differentabout me. And Kipps

(24:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we're,again, we're about the same age,
you know, TV and media in thelate 70s in the in the early
80s. I think that stuff hitsyou, you know, when you're in a
very impressionable age, and itjust kind of gets written into
your, your, your kink DNA,right. So you
Yeah, that was definitely a partof it for me. You know, chips,

(25:05):
I'm blanking there were therewere a bunch of others. I
remember, even in the earlierthan that, there was a show
called SWAT that my parents usedto watch and, and, you know, I
was, when that was on, I wasjust wrapped,
wrapped fascination to the TV.

(25:26):
And by the time I was in my 20s,you know, seeing a
real police officer out there inthe world, it was incredibly
arousing, even, even if the guyin the uniform wasn't somebody
who would otherwise, you know,turn my head, you just take a
normal guy, and you put him in apolice uniform, and suddenly,
it's like, whoa, you know,that's, that's interesting.

(25:49):
And when I was getting into thisstuff, again, because, you know,
my early 20s is kind of when Istarted on my leather jury, I
didn't want to wear the uniform,I wanted to be dominated by the,
by the cop, you know, handcuffedand bent over cruiser hood and
fucked or whatever, you know,that's, that's where my
orientation was. But as timewent on, and I gained more

(26:10):
experience, I just gradually andquite naturally transitioned
into being, you know, a DOM guy.
And so for me, that meant that Iwanted to, to put the uniforms
together myself, and, and be theguy be the cop. And I don't want
to pause and highlight part ofwhat you just said, which is
the, you know, an averagelooking guy in a uniform is

(26:31):
like, Whoa, there's somethingabout inherently the Fetish gear
we put on, that has its ownsexual energy that gets mapped
onto us. And it's not like, youget turned on watching a seeming
uniform on a hanger, it'ssomething about uniform plus
body becomes greater than thesum of its parts. And that's
just for me, it's true inleather or rubber or anything

(26:52):
else. Yeah, it, it really does.
When I put a uniform on, I am Icarry myself differently. I feel
differently about myself.
You know, when I, when I wouldtake photos, and I would see the
photos, I'm like, Wait, who'sthat hot guy, right? Like, it

(27:14):
just, it's, it's a differentversion of me. And it's all
here, it's all inside my head,I'm the same person. But it just
brings out a different aspect ofmyself. And it's, it's, it's
intoxicating, it really is Iidentify. So how does someone
put together a uniform. So it isit's both easier and harder than

(27:39):
it used to beeasier because of the internet,
you know, the internet makespurchasing a lot of the
components very, very easy. Youused to have to find like a
brick and mortar store that youcouldn't find this stuff. But
now a lot of it you can just youknow order up online. But it's
harder in that in the wake of911. There were a lot of laws
passed, and they really clampeddown on the ability to get some

(28:03):
of the some of the insignia, thebadges are quite hard to get.
Color bras are quite hard to getin some ways. So you know, it's
easier and harder than it usedto be. What I recommend for
folks is, the first step is todecide what kind of uniform you

(28:23):
want. Right? What's your target?
What are you going to go for?
And that's really about, youknow, what do you like, what do
you respond to? What do youthink is sexy? Is it is it the
motorcar like chips, you know,with with the tall boots and the
leather gloves? Is it maybe abeat officer, you know, who's a
little bit rumbled? Perhaps, butit's very blue collar?

(28:47):
Maybe it's, maybe it's adetective, right? Some people,
some people have a suit fetish,which I'd say is maybe a
secondary or tertiary fetish forme and a detective, you know,
and, you know, a tie, maybe gotthe firearm on the side, you
know, that that's a good look.
Or I've also seen more recently,though, a lot of a

(29:10):
lot of departments will havebicycle cops, right, which which
go around and helmets andspandex and they get really,
really good develop thighs. So,you know, there's there's a
bunch of different ways to kindof do this. Well, and I would
think that it's also not justwhat you find sexy, but what
your budget looks like that, youknow, if you're putting together
the motorcycle cop, then you'reinvesting in tall boots. And

(29:34):
that's a significant expense byitself versus just a cloth
uniform with some patent leathershoes. That's a great point.
The and again, there's there'smy privilege, you know, I have I
have the disposable income to dothose things. But yeah, some of
those things are much moreattainable financially than

(29:54):
others. So what you'll see a lotin the Finnish world is you
know, when youWhen you're thinking about, you
know, specifically whichdepartment right which
municipality that you might beinterested in,
I recommend people find apersonal connection, you know,
mine, mine yourself, come upwith a personal connection. So

(30:16):
what you'll see in the Fetishworld a lot, is what I think of
is the big four departments,right, which is the California
Highway Patrol, the CHP, NewYork Police Department, San
Francisco Police Department andthe LA Police Department. And I
would add four and a half,because I think Chicago is also
really popular. That's a goodpoint. That's a good point.

(30:39):
Yeah, I really liked the Chicagodepartment itself. I don't think
of that as, I don't think thatthere's big four, because when I
think of it, what I'm referringto is that when you if you walk
into a leather store, they'revery good chances that you can
buy off the rack shirt with NYPDinsignia on it, right, or, you

(31:01):
know, LAPD also, you know, wehave a very good local leather
shop here. And I know I can godown there and buy that stuff
off the rack, it's, it's veryaccessible, you'll end
particularly if you go to anevent like a, you know, an IML,
or an M al or something likethat, you're probably going to
see three or four guys and Chipuniform, or LAPD or something

(31:24):
like that. So, you know, I thinkof them as kind of being a
baseline, everybody recognizesthem.
But I, I tend to want to be alittle bit more distinctive than
that. So I, you know, I, when Istarted putting together a
uniform, I thought about citiesor communities that I've spent
time in, you know, maybe whereyou grew up, or where you went

(31:45):
to college, which oftentimesisn't the place where you live
now.
So I just yeah, have some kindof personal connection, I think
is a good way to go. Or maybethere's a uniform that you just
think is really hot, right?
Because there's all differenttypes. And each, you know, each
department has their own gearand tag. So, like there's police
departments in the Southwestwhere the officers wear Stetsons

(32:08):
cowboy hats.
You know, that's a good look.
Right, you know, boots andStetsons or a lot of the uniform
enthusiast will really like NewJersey state troopers or the
Rhode Island State Troopers.
They've got a really reallysharp kind of halfway

(32:30):
it's sort of halfway betweenequestrian and military and it's
just a really sharp look. So youknow, maybe that maybe that's
your way and maybe finding thatand Rhode Island State Trooper
uniform has one kind of nationalawards for being the best
uniform. And it's alsodistinctive because all of it
sort of leather accessories arebrown. So you know, for the gays

(32:53):
who want kind of like adifferent look for nighttime
pickups in brown. It's a greatbut really difficult to
assemble, particularly theboots, I think are really hard
to get, you know, do you know,Aggie boots, right? Yeah,
that's, that's another goodpoint. The Aggies you know, a
lot of guys that fits into thesame category. You know, a lot

(33:14):
of people like the Aggieuniform.
But yeah, I, as I always joke,I'm kind of the world's worst
shopper. So I have no patiencefor it. I don't know how
difficult it is to the RhodeIsland State Troopers. Is it?
The boots Brown, or maybe likelike a chestnut sort of reddish

(33:34):
ox flutters.
And the Sam Brown like all ofthe leather is brown. Yes. Yeah.
Gorgeous. And it's Serge green,with red accents that really
pop. It's like the gayestbeautiful uniform ever in the
world.
Well, that's not necessarily mytake on it. But yeah, if you're,

(33:57):
I would not suggest startingthere, right? Because if you
start there, you gotta have alot of money to, to because
loads are gonna be a customorder. Yeah, that's gonna be
tough.
Another another way to thinkabout this is the cosplay
community is really big pal.
Right? People who put togethercostumes from their favorite

(34:18):
media, you know, and, andthere's an element of that to
this. And so maybe, maybe youreally like a cop from
particular show. Right? Like,I'm just going to get a free
associate here.
Chief Hopper from StrangerThings. I could I could
definitely enjoy puttingtogether something like that,

(34:39):
you know, and it's it kind ofstraddles this line between sort
of, you know, media fandom andhot sex. Right. And if you have
a dad bod, that is exactly thelike, that's the sexualization
of the dad bod. Men will bekilling each other to get you in
your hopper Dad. Byethe outset no question. I'll be

(35:00):
one of them. You have in fact,just convinced me. I mean, I
think I'd have to color mybeard. Right because he's, you
know, but But yeah, I do havethe DadBod right now, so maybe I
should go in that direction.
Maybe Maybe Hopper after he'she's been frightened by all the
five seasons of Stranger Things.
Maybe his hair goes gray. Right?

(35:20):
That would be great. Yeah, y'ally'all can't see. But Steve is
polar white, pure white beard.
Beautiful, beautiful, sexySanta, but without the Santa
sighsOh, it's true. It's true. It's
true. I think I've got I've gotthree brown hairs still in my
moustache. They're hanging on.

(35:43):
But yeah, yeah, he's like themonopoly guy. But that's not a
good reference either. Becausethat makes you evil capitalist.
I don't? I don't know. Just.
I've actually never heard that.
You know, I've never heard thatbefore. Are you?
handlebar mustache? I'm joking.
I'm joking. I've heard that amillion times. Yeah.
On this on the way you weresaying? Yeah.

(36:07):
I don't know if this is gonnamake it into the podcast. But I
think people can tell that weknow each other.
The one one of the things Idefinitely don't recommend for
putting together a uniformthough, is try not to or avoid
putting together one for thecurrent city or state that you
live in. Because then you if youwant to wear it out in public

(36:29):
someplace, you can really getinto some extra level of
trouble. So you know, an exampleof that. I live in Broward
County, Florida. And I do likethe uniforms that they have. But
I've never bothered to try toput one together because it
would be severely limited as toyou know, when when I could wear
it. Also, this is also youraesthetics. I think the Broward

(36:49):
sheriff's uniform is ugly. It'sthis hideous green. But so so
such as don't put together theuniform in the city you live in
but if it's also put together auniform you actually like Right?
Like example, manners, super gaycity, will manners also has the
ugliest patches. I'm like, Iwouldn't I wouldn't want to wear
that. So, so put togethersomething you love. It's your

(37:12):
big message. Yeah, yeah. And puttogether something you love. I
mean, if you love the if youlove that CHP or the NYPD, I
mean, I have an LAPD uniform,because I like the look. But
that was one of the last onesthat I went for. Just because I
wanted, I wanted something thatwas a bit more distinctive. So
then, once you figure out whatyou're going to target, you

(37:32):
know, Google is your friend,right? And start going on down
the Google Image Search rabbithole, because you can, you can
just get all these visualreferences about what you might,
you know, but about your targetuniform. And the thing with
uniforms is that they are allabout the details. Every single

(37:53):
department, you know, does whatwhat is the shirt color? What is
the pant color? Does it have astripe? Is there piping on the
shirt? What's the collar brass?
What's the head if it has one,you know, it's it's more than
just, you know, finding theright patch. There's just like a
whole whole bunch of differentthings. So you know, if you're a
detail oriented person, which Iam, and you'll find this a lot,

(38:15):
the uniform enthusiasts is we'revery, very detailed. We're we're
into a lot of that stuff. So geton Google, and then just start
finding all the pictures of theuniforms that you're interested
in. And then once you kind ofknow what you're going for, and
you develop your shopping list,good starting places, you know,

(38:35):
Amazon, or there's a websitecalled quartermaster, which is
really, really good for findingthe basic components. And these,
you know, these things aren'tdifficult to or what's the word
I'm looking for restricted justto law enforcement. You can buy
a uniform shirt, it's verydistinctive, and then it tends

(38:56):
to be made with smaller bolts ofcloth, which I think is
utilitarian and has a verydistinctive look. So you can get
all of that stuff on on eitherof those two websites.
And then and for the basiccomponents. Like can you give us
a list? I mean, you want uniformpants, uniform shirt, patches,

(39:20):
maybe some sort of badge belt?
Is that? Is that it? Oh gosh, doyou at our I mean, it's it's a
long list. I mean, for the forthe basics for the first
uniform, like, give me a list ofthings I need to put together.
Now granted, I'm doing myresearch. It's right I could get
super detailed, specific but mybasics what about these

(39:44):
components? Got Okay, so I wouldsay the first place to start is
a shirtand super easy to obtain. As I
said the shirts are distinctive,and one of the reasons the
shirts are a good startingPoint is because you can
actually wear them with otherstuff.

(40:04):
You know, I oftentimes, if I'mgoing out to, you know, the
local, you know, cigar social,if I want to dress up that
night, I could put on one of myuniform shirts and a pair of
jeans, you know, and it worksjust fine. It conveys the right
message. So yeah, I'd say sureis the place to start. As you've

(40:26):
talked about before boots, youknow, you always want to have a
good pair of boots, I'll wearmy, my Wesco harness boots, if
I'm doing jeans and a uniformshirt, that's, that's a
perfectly defensible look. ThenI'd say if you're going for
something specific, the pant,you want to get the pants that
go with it, and then try to getif you already have or you know,

(40:49):
the boot purchase, you want toget the right boot or footwear
that goes with it. And then youwant to start focusing on the
what I think of as the the thetech the insignia. So badges
badges are super difficult toget. You just you can't just buy
them, you there will officerswill retire and then sometimes a

(41:14):
badge will show up on eBay. Butit's really, really difficult.
The good thing about that,though, is that most people
don't even notice, right, youcan get relatively inexpensive
badges at a leather store or ata vendor Martin kink, Ron. And
it's not the right badge, itmight say special officer or it

(41:37):
might say campus enforcement orsomething. And you know what, it
doesn't matter. If you're at abar, somebody sees you from a
distance, they're not going towalk up to you and say you don't
have the right badge for thatuniform. It's just you know, it
really it just reads right. Sogo ahead although to be fair,

(41:58):
some people will say that but wedon't generally like those
people. Those Those are notpeople that you want to play
with generally speaking. Yeah.
So yeah, badge the collar brassso the collar brass I didn't
know this word before I got intouniforms but the collar brass is
is the the metal insignia thatyou will insert in the collar

(42:21):
itself. On the what's the rightword? Is that the lapel the
pointy part of the collar thatcomes down?
Yeah, I know right. Totallyspecific. So the leave their
collar tips collar to is thatreally tips? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(42:42):
Collar tips. We'll go with thepointy bits, the pointy bits. So
the the collar brass so mostdepartments will maybe have one
that says just PD. Those aredifficult to get I found more
recently. Sometimes you'll see arank insignia like a corporal
bar or something on there, themaybe maybe a star.

(43:06):
I have, I'm in a uniform cluband we have our own ma UL color
brass that goes with that. Andsometimes it's precinct numbers.
So it might be an actual number.
I've seen that the New Orleansuniform I put together as
precinct numbers on there. Ohyeah, that's a good point.
That's a good point. The thingabout the collar brass what I
really like it and I think it'simportant is it's just
remarkable how much that sellsthe look. You know what I mean?

(43:29):
That that when your eyes scansit, it's not something that we
normally wear. So it's it'sreally different, it's really
special and it really just helpsmake the look. And then
definitely you can easy toobtain as a name tag. You can
you can get a name tag to go onyour on your left. And that will
you know it it could it couldhave your real name. It could

(43:52):
have your scene name, it couldsay sir, it could say faggot,
whatever you want it to say youcan get those things made custom
or already you know made upthose that's a good one. And
then the other. There's a longlist. And also you eventually
you want to get the belts thatgo with it. You know the leather

(44:13):
like a duty belt around yourwaist. Those tend to come either
in smooth leather or a patternwhat they call basket weave and
you want to keep it you know ifthat's basket weave, you want
your other stuff to be basketweave.
And then lots of departmentswill have a Sam Brown and the

(44:33):
Sam Brown is that belt that goesdiagonally from your shoulder
down to your duty belt. Andthat's that's a really hard look
too. I love the Sam Brown all ofthese things they just kind of
helped to sell the the idea ofthe uniform. So if you had to
guess like a budget for basicuniform. Let's say I'm going for

(44:56):
pants shirt. Cheap badgeCheap collar brass
Bell Sam brown patches like,what's a starting budget?
Guesstimate station because Irealize you're not actually
doing the shopping Pac Man.
Yeah. caveat that I am theworld's worst shopper. I would,

(45:17):
I guess that we're probably inthe $300 range, something like
that. Yeah, I just want to getyour head into it. If you think
about the Fetish world, you havea complete kind of head to toe
outfit. For $300. That's lessthan one leather shirt. So it's,
it's, you know, it's it's asignificant investment. But it's

(45:40):
a really solid entry. And I lovethat you pointed out uniform
shirts are versatile, you couldalso then wear them with leather
pants, and it has a beautifulkind of leather cop look.
So I love that you told peopleto get that first because you
really can wear it in a lot ofdifferent contexts. It's very
versatile, and it's it's readilyaccessible, you really don't

(46:03):
have any trouble getting those.
And you know, I didn't reallyeven mention the patches,
the the leather store here intown, they've they've made their
own patches, which I really, Ireally liked this a fourth
Leatherdale. And I've been I'vebeen using those recently,
again, because again, I'mstaying, I'm staying away from
realistic uniforms. But youknow, you can, if you're an eBay

(46:26):
person, if you are good atfinding stuff on eBay, the
patches are actually very easyto get. Because I guess they're
just so ubiquitous, there's alot of them out there. So and
that might be the thing thatinspires you to go to one
department or anotherdepartment, right? Like if, if
you don't necessarily nothingyou have a lot of connection to
but you scored patches for theKey West, you know, police

(46:48):
department or something, go forit. That's, that's maybe a good
a good one to go for. I've alsofound patches a great source of
inspiration, because there aresites that just sell patches to
the public. And you go throughpage after page and I was able
to find one that was sort oflike Bear Valley, Idaho, but had
this beautiful bear on it. I'mlike, Oh, I like bears, and we

(47:09):
did the bare patch. So you canreally tune into elements of the
design. And also then not haveto replicate your your cities.
uniform. Yeah, that's, that's awonderful point in that, you if
you can get something that alsohas a different connotation
within the Fetish world, right,you know, bear valley, whatever.

(47:30):
But it's gotta bear, right. Andbears are a standard part of the
Fetish and gay world. So yeah,that's, that's a great point.
You can also if you do have aleather shop, or a kink positive
shop, you'll be able to get, youknow, some some relatively easy
stuff there, I see lots and lotsof badges that you can find in

(47:53):
those places, again, they tendto be on the cheaper side, you
know, they're not really greatquality. But the, you know,
they're accessible. And this is,this is a place you're going
it's not a bad starting point.
There are specific leather, I'msorry, take that back. There are
specific uniform stores, brickand mortar uniform stores out

(48:16):
there, which are exactly forthis point right there for law
enforcement there for theysupply, you know, medical field
and all this stuff. As a rule,they will not sell to civilians.
But if you can develop arelationship with the brick and
mortar uniform store, and youknow, you get to know the owner,

(48:37):
and you know, they know thatyou're not going to use the
stuff to commit a crime, theymight bend the rules and sell to
you the uniform club that I'min. I'm a reserve officer in the
mid atlantic uniform League. Weearly on developed a
relationship with the uniformstore in one in Pennsylvania.
And we've gotten a lot of ourgear through them. And that's

(48:59):
been a really good relationship.
But I guess the thing I I'd liketo get across to everybody is
that, again, we are very detailoriented. But it doesn't have to
be exactly right. If, if you'rewearing a uniform during play,
or you know you're at an eventor something, just a couple of
broad strokes, just you know,the badge, the shirt, it will it

(49:21):
will say cop to people andyou'll be amazed at the
difference that you can get inreactions from folks, when they
see you in that gear. Icertainly am I love I love the
intention. So could you talk alittle bit about some of the
risks that come with wearinguniforms? Absolutely,

(49:43):
absolutely. And thing to keep inmind here is that I'm not a
lawyer. So these are just somethings that I've some warnings
that I have developed over theyears or you know, were given to
me over the years. But yeah, ifyou're gonna
wear a uniform, especially inpublic, if you're wearing it in
private, there's very littlerisk associated with it. But if

(50:04):
you're gonna wear it out to thebar, you might want to, you
know, again, get on the Googlemachine and look up your local
ordinances, you know thingsabout impersonating a police
officer, the what's what'sillegal, you know, the red line
is impersonating lawenforcement.
So, what you should do, just becareful if you're out at a bar

(50:28):
or you're out someplace in gear,never tried to actually convince
someone that you are a policeofficer. And this is even true
if you're not wearing gear,because you know, cops sometimes
are undercover, so you canactually get yourself in
trouble. If you pretend to be acop, you know, tell somebody
that you're a cop, even ifyou're in plainclothes.

(50:50):
The other thing that I amcareful about is I would never
wear uniform, as we saidearlier, for the department of
the city or the place where Icurrently am. So hi, I've got a
very, very realistic LAPDuniform. I would never wear that
in public in Los Angeles. So Iknow edge that you have a
glorious, glorious CHP uniformthat fits you like a glove. I am

(51:14):
going to assume that you wouldprobably not wear that in public
in California anywhere. Now,although I believe I did wear it
in the hotel at La claw.
Although maybe not. Maybe not. Idid wear it at IML. But that was
in Chicago. But yes, I certainlywould never go walking the
streets of California in a CHPuniform. That's gonna get me in

(51:35):
a buttload of trouble. But notjust with police. But you know,
a lot of people are angry atpolice too. So I don't need the
attention in either direction.
Yeah, yeah, I have. I'veexperienced this at claw in
Cleveland, wearing you know,pretty realistic uniform going

(51:55):
from my hotel to the host hotel.
And what I would tend to do is Icover up and make sure my jacket
or you know, is covering as muchas I can or even you know, when
I'm careful. If I am driving tosomeplace driving to the bar or
whatever, driving for a playsession with somebody, I will I
will maybe leave the shirt offand just have an undershirt on

(52:17):
while I drive.
Just because you know, you canget odd looks from people or if
there's a fender bender orsomething and you have to get
out of the car. You know, it's alittle bit it's not as awkward
if you have a fender bender withsomebody and all of a sudden
this cop steps out of the car,you know, it's like that's just

(52:39):
a conversation I do not want tohave so very very careful about
that.
And as and as we were talkingit's it's not only your
hometown, but it's also ifyou're out somewhere you know
looks I have the LAPD but Idon't wear it in LA.
And then there's you know,there's a bunch of of equipment
that goes with cops and you wantto be super careful about that

(53:00):
too. Handcuffs. handcuffs arepretty easy to purchase. You can
get them online or they haveleather stores sex shops, they
look great on uniform, I amoften often put handcuffs on my
uniform.
And it is I am told I haven'tverified this myself. But it is

(53:23):
illegal in some places to Harryto carry a handcuff key on your
person.
Not the handcuffs in Florida,right? In Florida, it's illegal
to carry the key if you do notdisclose it immediately to a
police officer. Because thewhole idea is you don't want
criminals carrying keys gettingout of their handcuffs. So, so

(53:44):
it's not illegal to just haveit. But if a cop stops you you
want to be like, Hey, by theway, there's a handcuff key on
my keychain, my preteens in mypocket, right, like so you just
want to make sure you disclosein Florida. But as Steve pointed
out, use the Google machine andalways check your local laws.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And justa side note about handcuffs.
handcuffs are great for publicbondage play.

(54:08):
I have I have put people inhandcuffs in a bar lots and lots
and lots of times. But you wantto be super careful that you're
not hurting somebody becausehandcuffs are hard metal is not
like rope is not like leatherrestrain. If you're going to let
somebody please set the locks.

(54:29):
Yes, so Okay, so what that meansis handcuffs,
any of them that are any good.
They come with a little lockingmechanism that will prevent them
when you put them on somebodythat will actually prevent them
from closing any further so thatthey won't get any smaller. So
if somebody moves in a certainway, or maybe you I don't know

(54:50):
push them roughly against a wallwhile their hands are cuffed
behind their back. I don't knowsomebody might do that.
If you don't set the lockingmechanism, then the handcuffs
might close, even tighter on thewrists. And I have played with
people who have found out afterthe fact, actually did have some

(55:12):
nerve damage a little bit, youknow, for a short period of
time, so your hands tingle therea little bit. So I'm even more
cautious with handcuffs than Iused to be. One of my hack for
that is, if I'm going to go outto a bar, and I'm going to have
handcuffs as part of my outfit.
And I'm going to carry the key,I will lock the the handcuffs,
I'll set that locking mechanismwhile they're just on my belt.

(55:34):
And the reason I do that isbecause if I'm going to go ahead
and put those on somebody, thenthat requires that I have the
key, at least at the moment atthe bar where I put them on
somebody. So that prevents mefrom, you know, ratcheting on
somebody and then be like, Oh,crap, they're sitting on my
night table by my bed, you knowthat and that's just awkward. So

(55:57):
don't do that.
So that's handcuffs. Another oneis the baton. Right? The I think
I think departments have largelymoved away from a wooden baton,
which you know, sort of aclassic look, I think they have
the,the extendable ones, right. It's
a very small thing, but it kindof telescopes out and then they

(56:20):
can do whatever they're going todo with it. But I have a couple
of different batons, I like thelook, they're they're really
good in photos, they look reallygreat on a duty belt, I think.
But they're very, very easilyperceived as a weapon in a
public place. So I would notwear I would not put a baton on
my uniform to go out to a barnight or something like that. I

(56:41):
will also say they are awkwardas fuck, cuz like, they bump
into things you go to sit and Imean, they're just, it's a good
look for photos, it's maybe goodin a scene, but to wear it out
people are gonna be bumping intoit, it's going to be catching on
things in a crowded bar is justnot a functional accessory.
Well, yes and no, there are alldifferent sorts of styles, I

(57:05):
have a I have a very, very longone, I'd say it's probably a
good two feet. And it's got thething that comes off to the side
that operates as handle Yes, youwill bump into every every
object imaginable. If you'rewearing that. However, I also
have one that's just about afoot long, maybe maybe 18
inches, and it's just a cylinderdoesn't have any part that comes

(57:25):
off from the side. And that doesnot have that particular
problem. So remember, boys,mentor dancer has 18 inches for
you.
You know, and actually, I willsay this a baton.

(57:47):
I have occasionally used a batonas an insertable.
I will say if you do that bevery, very, very, very careful.
Because you know, the baton ismade out of wood. And the rectum
is very soft. So don't dosomething like that unless you

(58:11):
really, really know what you'redoing. You do not want a
splinter in your butthole Well,well, when I've done it, I've
actually enrolled a condom on itfirst, because you generally
don't want to share sex toys,and there's pores and everything
in there. So you know, but yeah,you don't I mean, you don't want
splinters. Last thing I'llmention in this in this category

(58:33):
is firearms.
Firearms. For me, I think of asvery polarizing, particularly
here in the US. It's a bigpolitical thing. Now, I know a
bunch of people have a fetishfor firearms, but other people
are completely turned off bythem. And I actually fall into
that category. I do not likefirearms, I do not think they're

(58:57):
hot. If that's your thing, fine.
But it's it's not a it's not apositive for me years ago when I
was when you know when I wasputting uniform together and I
thought this would look reallyreally good if I had a firearm
on a holster. So I boughtsomething which is called a blue
gun that they use for training.
And it's just a solid plasticinert piece of plastic, but it

(59:21):
looks realistic. So I purchasedthat and I spray painted it
black so it would look you knowgood and all that stuff. And I
bought the holster andeverything and I I put it on and
I took a couple of photos andI'm like that looks like crap.
It was sticking out at a weirdangle and it kind of ruined the
line on my body. And I'm like,You know what I? So that thing
has been in the closet eversince. And it's I I should

(59:44):
probably get rid of it. Youknow? And I will also say I mean
I liked that you mentioned somepeople do have a whole gunplay
fetish. That's a whole separatepodcast if I even choose to do
that because it is verypolarizing. I for awhile had I
still have it's aA blank firing replica. So it's
metal. It's functional, but itdoesn't fire actually bullets.
It fires blanks. I'muncomfortable even using that

(01:00:07):
now because of the amount of gunviolence in the US. i It no
longer erotically signifies. Forme, I'm a little disturbed by
it. And it's still a safetyissue, because it's any number
of movie productions and provenpeople can still be killed by
blank. So, so I'm alsobackpedaling and moving away
from any sort of firearm orweaponry, in my play, or in my

(01:00:29):
uniform.
Yeah, the I think the way Ithink of it is particularly in
the US, I can't speak for otherother parts of the world that
are maybe saner than we are, butfirearms have just taken on a
real political valence. You knowwhat I mean? If you're, if
you're holding a firearm to me,in the US, you're saying

(01:00:51):
something about your politics.
And it just I don't know, it'sjust not the right. It's not
where I want to go right it tome, it doesn't say sexy cop, it
says something else that I'm notI'm not into that. I think the
thing that's most importantabout this, whether whether you
have a real firearm, or whetheryou just got the you know, the
sort of the fake blue gun that Imentioned, is I would urge you
never ever, ever, ever to wearit in public. Because even if

(01:01:15):
it's a fake, people don't knowthat you can frighten the shit
out of people. You know, you canclear a room. If you're if you
walk into it with with afirearm, or you know, even if
things go bad for whateverreason, if the real cops show
up, and they see you see that onyou, you might become a target.

(01:01:37):
So my thing with firearms is ifit's your thing, just keep it
limited to photographs. Don'ttake it out into the world, or
or in private, right? Like if ifyou want to use it during play,
and it's in private, fine. Butit's it's something that I would
never take out in public. Yeah,thanks for making that pretty
clear. And I want to echo thesentiments.

(01:02:00):
For anything else you wanted totell us about uniforms putting
together your first uniform, ordid you want to tell us maybe
the story of your first uniform?
Oh, gosh.
I mean, my first uniform, I metsomeone through recon, who had
been a Jacksonville policeofficer. That had been his

(01:02:24):
career. And then he was retired.
And he was sort of famous forputting other people in uniforms
and playing with them. And ifsome of the people who are
listening might recognize this,this person from Recon, you
know, there's a million photoson his recon of all of these
different people in policeuniforms. So I had met with him
and for play one time, and heput me my first uniform, and

(01:02:48):
that was that was great. Andthen probably about six months
later, he and I were both at MidAtlantic leather together. And
there was a uniform store whowas actually in the vendor part.
And I walked up to them and I bythis point, I had the boots and
I think I had a leather uniformat this point, but it didn't
have anything realistic. So youknow, with the Jacksonville guy

(01:03:10):
who gave me patches, he gave methe patches for the Jacksonville
PD. He was there with me. And soI walked up to this vendor and I
said, Okay, here's my card. Iwould like breaches that look
like this. And I would like ashirt that looks like this. And
we and I again, lazy shopper.

(01:03:31):
I'm like okay, here's the belt.
Here's the same brown. Here'sthis. Here's the that. And I put
all that together right then andthere and went home with it and
loved it. So this was in the wasthis this was the early 2000s I
suspect. So that was that was myfirst uniform. And I still have
it. I can't fit into it, butthey still

(01:03:56):
wonderful, what a great story.
Thank you so much for joiningus. i You are a very special
friend of mine and now a veryspecial friend of the podcast.
Dragoon, you, I will Dragoon youinto more episodes in the future
tapping your experience.
Awesome. Awesome. Thanks somuch.
Thanks for being on full cow. Ilook forward to the impending

(01:04:19):
Dragoon.
And that's it for this episode.
Thank you so much for joining meplease consider subscribing or
you can send feedback to edge atfull cow dot show. As always,
may your leather journey beblessed