FOREVER MOTORING: The Dreamscape of Motoring with Jordan Cornille

Jordan Cornille, the calm, composed, creative co-founder of Curtiss Motorcycles, opens us to the dreamscape of motoring. We talk about the ways dreams come true, how motoring has become the terrain of his own career as a designer and motoring strategist, and the importance of reframing the role motoring plays in our lives. We also discuss how all this might move us towards a more sustainable global future.

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Episode Transcript

Andrea (00:07):
Hello, everyone.
I'm so glad you're here today.
We have the designer andmotoring strategist, Jordan
Cornille on the show.
He's a graduate from the eliteCCS transportation design
program in Detroit.
The college for creativestudies.
His first motorcycle design wasa spectacular looking E-Twin
Zeus.

(00:28):
He's also a co-founder ofCurtiss motorcycles.
And a big fan of a man namedGlenn Curtiss.
Have you ever heard of GlennCurtiss?
For those who haven't, we've gotsome shows coming up on him.
He was an early bicycle andmotorcycle maker in the United
States.
And he's really the man whostarted the aviation business in
America.

(00:48):
And deserves as much credit asthe Wright brothers when it
comes to that.
But still most people have neverheard of him.
Even Jordan admits he'd neverheard of him as you'll hear on
this podcast.
And Jordan's a person verystudied in the art of
transportation, but he justhadn't come across Glen Curtiss.
Until about eight years ago whenhe and Matt Chambers started

(01:08):
dreaming up ways to createecological, motoring or
sustainable motoring that couldhave the spirit and style of
some of the best of America'stransportation creations.
And though Pierre Terreblanchehad turned Matt towards a
similar road, it was not an easyor obvious turn back then.
And so it was only later whenJordan Cornille came into view

(01:28):
that the path was illuminated.
And Matt and Jordan started anew company together called
Curtiss towards building luxuryelectric motorcycles.
And now this whole new world isopened up for everyone.
And as Jordan tells it, thatworld is really one that
revolves around family and allthe different ways that humans
become family to one another.

(01:50):
For Jordan, of course his wifeand his baby daughter move him
more than anything.
But he also sees Matt and JTNesbitt and the others that he
works with at Curtiss as a sortof family.
Which is something prettyastonishing because as you'll
hear, Matt and JT were his earlyheroes i n the field before he'd
even met them.

(02:11):
Uh, and now he works with them.
And even maybe thinks of them asfamily, Perhaps there's ways
that everyone in the motoringworld shares something like
kinship, because we all have tofigure out these familiar
motoring ties if we want tosurvive and thrive ecologically,
especially when it comes tomonitoring.
And Jordan seems to think thatthe best way to do that is to

(02:33):
rethink our relationship toobjects and to the things we
buy.
Maybe not considering it, juststuff we're going to eventually
discard.
Objects, like the little redwagon that he mentions that his
grandfather used to pull himaround in when he was a kid or
maybe it's your daughter orson's first handcrafted little
wooden bike.
These are objects to be kept andpassed down over generations.

(02:56):
Jordan says and an electricmotorcycle is a work of art like
that too.
Um, maybe all the ways we movethrough the world could be.
Those kinds of objects, thingsthat last forever.
At least that's how Jordan seesit.
Uh, as something for dreamingand desire and meaning.
Jordan's dad used to tell himstories when they were riding in

(03:16):
the car.
When Jordan was just a littleboy.
Maybe even when they were takinghis mom's minivan somewhere, you
know, his dad would just turnthese vehicles into spaceships
or horses, or I don't know,vehicles that could move into
the past or the future, or evenup to the stars.
And those became some ofJordan's fondest and most
imaginative memories, thoserides in the car with his dad.

(03:39):
And now with his own daughter,he does something similar and
hopes to pass on that same kindof dreaming.
So this word dreaming issomething that Jordan raises
quite a few times here in ourconversation.
And by the end of it, he'sconnected that word dreaming to
another word, which is desireand meaning as well.

(03:59):
And so these words, dreamingdesire and meaning sort of set
out this path for how Jordansees forever motoring.
I hope you enjoy thisconversation.
And let's go.
Hey Jordan, thanks for beinghere today.

Jordan (04:18):
Hello, how are you?

Andrea (04:19):
I'm good.
So this is a podcast aboutmotoring, specifically forever
motoring, and we're exploringthat word in many different
ways.
So just to start today, I wonderif you could think back and tell
us about an early experience ofmotoring or something that moved
you

Jordan (04:36):
I've got a lot of early memories of motoring.
Um, they might not be exactlywhat people would expect, but
I've got early, early memorieswhether it's, riding on my
grandpa's lap, on his lawnmowerwhile he's mowing the lawn on a
Sunday afternoon.
Um, riding in the back of a alittle red wagon, like a radio

(04:58):
flyer.
We would tie it up to a bicycleand my grandpa would ride the
bike and kind of pull us along.
Sometimes we'd fall out and gethurt, but those were fun
memories, me with my siblings.
And then some of my favoriteearly motoring memories are just
kind of sitting in the back ofmy car with my dad driving when

(05:19):
I was a little boy.
And my dad would pretend thatthe car is some alternate mode
of transportation, whether itwas a motorcycle or a race car,
or he'd pretend to be the pilotof an airplane or a space
shuttle.
And, and so I think some of myearliest motoring memories are
really tied to sort of nurturingimagination, if you will, which

(05:44):
is, which is kind ofinteresting.

Andrea (05:46):
Yeah, it is.
It sounds like you were beingtransported in more ways than
one.
It's wonderful that your dad didthat.
It's very imaginative.

Jordan (05:54):
Yeah.
It's something now as a, now asa new dad, I, I, I imitate it
sometimes with my littledaughter Cause, cause it is one
of my, it's one of my fondestmemories when I'm little.

Andrea (06:04):
That's wonderful.
Little, yeah.
I guess, I guess that means youwant her to feel the way you
felt in those moments.

Jordan (06:11):
I think so.
I think because it's such a,it's such a happy memory.
Something that I've held ontofor so long.
Mm-hmm.
That it's in sort of an easything to share with her, I
guess.

Andrea (06:21):
Yeah.
I think that says somethingabout motoring in, in a kind of
larger context too, about how itconnects us through times and
generations, and also how it's aa sensory experience, right?
It's not just, cool cars andmotorbikes, which we can also
get fascinated by at times.
Have you thought much aboutthat, about the larger ideas of
motoring?

Jordan (06:42):
Yeah.
And, a lot of it ties back tothat memory of, of my dad in
that I, I sort of relatemotoring to, to kind of a, a
dream, if you will, or this,this possibility of anything.
You know, my mom's minivan couldhave been the space shuttle.
So what is motoring?

(07:04):
Motoring can, can open up thisdream-like world that's so, uh,
freeing and, and happy andpeaceful.
that's something that reallyentices me to motoring.

Andrea (07:16):
Yeah, that's true.
It's about going places, but itcan also be places in your mind,
imaginary places, it's alsoabout this going to new places
right?
And Stretching what's possible.

Jordan (07:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Another, another memory I have,for a few years during my
childhood, I lived in SoutheastAsia.
I lived in Indonesia and, andmotoring took on a whole, a
whole other form over therebecause in, in Jakarta
specifically, there would justbe hundreds of thousands of
scooters and mopeds and.

(07:48):
That is motoring no matter whatyou need motoring to be, whether
it's transporting your goods,whether it's transporting your
family of five, um,

Andrea (07:56):
when were you there?

Jordan (07:57):
Uh, I lived there when I was in middle school, so the
early teens.
Yep.

Andrea (08:02):
Yeah.
So that made a big impression,.
And That's a really differentconcept of movement.
just being in that movementfeels different, doesn't it?

Jordan (08:08):
For sure.
It's kind of this, thisorganized chaos.
It feels like what, what you seeshouldn't be working, but it
does somehow, you know, like anant colony or something.
And there's something beautifulabout that, and it just seems
like it should be impossible,but it's not.

Andrea (08:26):
That speaks to another thing that can happen with
transportation and movement andmotoring is that we can get
overwhelmed a bit.
It can be so much, andespecially when it's a really
new sensory experience, so, onthat note, trying something new
and also the familiar ofmotoring, it sounds like it was
always a special experience foryou, but did you grow up
thinking, as a little boy, like,okay, I wanna work with cars or

(08:49):
motorcycles?

Jordan (08:50):
Not, not specifically.
I wouldn't classify myself as atraditional gear head or
anything like that.
Okay.
I did always dream of, of, ofsomething vehicle related.
You know, my, my first dream wasprobably to be a, a firefighter,
you know, driving the fire truckand then for some time I wanted
to be a pilot.

(09:11):
I loved the idea of taking tothe air and then I sort of fell
in love with cars in highschool, I guess.
So there was always, aconnective tissue there.
So how did, what, how did youend up going to college for what
you went for, which is yourfirst, tell us where you ended
up.
I went to the College forCreative Studies in Detroit and
studied traditional automotivedesign.

(09:34):
I wound up there because of,Matt and JT actually.
It was in early high school whenI came across a picture of the
Wraith that they had worked ontogether and, and designed, um,
just on an internet article orsomething.
And the Wraith just totally tookme away.

(09:55):
It was the first time I had everreally looked at a motorcycle
specifically even.
And I remember it being thefirst moment in time in my life
when I had this consciousrecognition that products are
designed and created.
I had never really thought aboutthat up to this point, but the

(10:16):
Wraith made me, because it wasso avan garde and unique and,
and cool and beautiful that itmade me ask myself, who, who
came up with this?
How do you create this?
How do you decide something canlook so radical and and
different from everything else?
And the Wraith actually broughtme to the world of, of design,

(10:40):
and that's what, that's whatkind of led me to automotive
design in Detroit.
Yeah.
So Matt Chambers and, JT Nesbe,and that was Confederate at the
time.
And that was what their thirdbike Yeah.
That, that was, that was thecompany's third bike.
It was the second that JT andMatt had worked on together.

Andrea (10:57):
So you saw that and you thought you wanna be able to
create something that has thateffect on other people that this
bike had had on you.
Was that kind of the, or was itjust Yeah, exactly.
Total

Jordan (11:05):
curiosity.
I think, I think up to thatpoint, I had never seen a
motorcycle that didn't look likea motorcycle.
And the Wraith didn't reallylook like a motorcycle to me.
in the way that people, man,imagine a motorcycle.
So, it was just so fun todiscover and realize that maybe
getting involved in that youcould hopefully have that

(11:27):
impact.
Wherever the path took me.
I didn't even specifically sayI'm gonna design motorcycles or
even I'm gonna design cars, justproducts.
But can I, if I go down thispath, can I create a TV that you
wouldn't think of as a TV or, ora, or a drinking glass or a car
or a boat.
Okay.
So, so, so, so really just kindof open up this, this dreamlike

(11:51):
date for me, I think.
Mm-hmm.

Andrea (11:53):
So it's almost like this kind of uncanny experience where
the world isn't quite what youthought it was, or sort of jolt
that you liked about this Yeah.
Idea of design.
Yeah.
But where were living at thetime, why did you go all the way
to Detroit?
Or were you living near Detroit?

Jordan (12:07):
I lived in New Hampshire in New England.
Okay.
That's where I spent most of mychildhood.
Um, and when I startedresearching and diving into the
world of automotive design, Ilearned that it's a fairly
specialized skill and it's nottaught at, you know, every state
school.
So there were, there's a handfulin the country that are

(12:27):
considered the top and, andDetroit CCS was definitely.
One of the best.

Andrea (12:32):
So yeah, I guess so.
You're right there with the bigthree, right?
Did they play a big part in the

Jordan (12:38):
college?
They definitely, they definitelydid the, the building where most
of my classes were at CCS, uh,was the original GM headquarters
and design centers.
So my studio classes where wedesigned cars for the semester
were kind of right up therewhere Parley Earl and Bill
Mitchell and, and those guyswere designing cars in GM's

(12:59):
heyday.
Oh

Andrea (13:00):
my, that's pretty exciting.
Did you realize at the time, howspecial it was?
Or was it all a process of sortof discovering all those people
once you were there, youdefinitely, you

Jordan (13:10):
definitely realized how special it is, whether you know
a lot about that history or not,the building is almost like a
museum itself.
So you walk in and you just,there's something almost
spiritual about it when you,when you go up to those top
floors of that building andoverlook downtown Detroit and.

Andrea (13:29):
Yeah, I've been in some of those buildings in the, some
of the early factories.
Definitely has a spacialresonance still.
It does, for

Jordan (13:35):
sure.

Andrea (13:36):
Yeah.
So it almost seems too perfectthat the reason you went to
school was this photo that yousaw of Matt Chambers and JT
Nesbitt and now, you ended upworking with them.
Did it how did that happen?
Did it happen soon after yourschooling?
Yeah.
Tell

Jordan (13:50):
us that it, it happened, uh, kind of before school ended
even.
It was just good timing, thatduring my senior year, I started
applying to, to companiespreparing for what's next and I
was applying to the carcompanies, the big three in
downtown, et cetera.
And, um, I decided to send myportfolio and resume to Matt for

(14:13):
whatever reason, I neverexpected to hear anything back.
You know, kids in school wouldsay, oh, I should send my
portfolio to Ferrari.
But you don't, you don't expect,you don't expect to call back,
that's for sure.
Um, but one afternoon I, wrote acover letter to Matt probably
telling him the story about howhe inspired me to be here in the

(14:34):
first place.
Um, and he called me back reallyquick.
He called me back like half anhour later and offered me the
job

Andrea (14:42):
that must have been one of those moments too, almost
like looking at the Wraith kindof out of your body experience.
It was

Jordan (14:47):
definitely kind of a pinch, a pinch me moment.
It was also like, is this real?
Yeah.
Um, I guess I'll find out when Idrive down there after I
graduate.
Um, so it, it did sort of feelgood to be true too good to be
true cuz it was it was, yeah, itwas just very

Andrea (15:04):
exciting.
Yeah, definitely.
But looking at it now, it sortof fits, doesn't it?
I mean, it's definitely thespirit of that bike that you
first saw and that very act ofjust being so bold to send Matt,
the, the, uh, email is probablyexactly the kind of thing that
would get his attention.
It just fits very well, doesn'tit, with that spirit of the
company in a way.
I

Jordan (15:23):
think so, yeah.
I think it does.
I think everything felt veryaligned and just right.

Andrea (15:29):
So tell me what happened then.
So you jump in your car and youdrive to where, where, where was
it at the time?
New Orleans or when Birmingham,or where was Matt in the

Jordan (15:37):
company?
Birmingham.
Yep.
Okay.
Me and my dad loaded up a carand drove down to Birmingham.
I was gonna start on a Monday,but we got down on a, on a
Friday.
So we, we stopped by.
The office to, to meet Matt inperson and just see where I'd be
working, make sure it actuallywas real.

(15:59):
Mm-hmm.
Before my dad left, was

Andrea (16:01):
he concerned?
I'd like to try to imagine thatcar ride down where your dad's
kind of the same man who had,uh, made the car into a vehicle
that could take you anywhere,was gonna, I think

Jordan (16:13):
my dad was as excited as me cause he knew this was, he,
he, he knew that this was thecompany that had led me down
this path.
And so, so he knew I was excitedand that's all that mattered to
him.
So, yeah.
But it was great.
We, we met Matt, and Matt tookus up to lunch and Matt told us
more about the company.
It was the first time I sawmotorcycles in person and

Andrea (16:36):
Was it as striking as seeing it in the magazine?

Jordan (16:39):
More, more.
So it's, it's,, it's somethingthat you do have to see those
motorcycles in person and seethe material and touch the
material to, to truly understandreally how special they are.
they photograph great and their,and their designs are so radical
and novel and, and exotic thatthey'll capture your attention

(17:02):
of course in, in photos.
But when you see them in person,it really takes them to a whole
nother level.
And you see this attention todetail and the part fitment and
the materials that, that, whenyou see'em in person, you know,
they're really something specialbeyond.
Um, a unique point of view interms of design.

Andrea (17:24):
Mm-hmm.
That's a similar feeling to theone where you're talking about,
of this transcendent kind of,it's almost like, look like a
wild animal kind of is in yourpresence, when you kind of see
it in person, it is this, italmost feels li living.
You guys talk about that a lot.
That, that the bikes are aliveor organic.
Um, I think it, they do tend tokind of exude that in some

(17:45):
strange way.

Jordan (17:47):
They do.
They do.
They have, they have this sortof presence, you know, they
feel.
When you stand around them, you,you feel compelled to walk
around them and get a 360 degreeview.
You wanna touch them in thatsense that they're sort of an
artwork or sometimes they, italmost feels like you're in the
presence of some sort of relic.
They just feel powerful.

(18:08):
Not in terms of horsepower, butin terms of presence.
It's, it is really special.

Andrea (18:14):
Yeah.
And what do you think that hasto do with the materials?
The materials that are used arealways natural and raw in a way.
But it also probably has to dowith the people who are creating
it.
And what is going into the bikeor what do you think?

Jordan (18:27):
I think it does have a lot to do with the people and
what goes into it., I thinkthere's so much passion infused
in terms of the early stages ofthe design and the craftsmanship
of each individual bike itself.
But you, you, you really feellike everyone that had a hand in
this put everything they hadinto it and that they're proud

(18:49):
of it and that they enjoy whatthey do.
I think that really comes acrossis that the people that are
working on them are, areenjoying their work.

Andrea (18:59):
Yeah.
Or at least giving it sort ofeverything, their attention,
waking up and going to sleepwith it in their mind, but
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So you come here with your dadand everything's kind of okay
and it's, it's fine and it islegitimate and the dream is
real.
And so you start working withMatt, but what did that, what
was going on?
They had just finished a bike, Ithink at the time, or, uh, was

(19:21):
it with Pi Pierre

Jordan (19:22):
or, it was right after Pierre.
Um, and they were just wrappingup the design of the P 51
fighter with Pierre Tela.
Yep.
And that that product wasgetting ready for production.
They were wrapping up a fewthings and I helped wrap up a
few minor components on, on thatproduct.

(19:44):
But really the, the first day Iwalked in and, and Matt and I
didn't have much of a chat.
He just told me to go to myoffice and start sketching, uh,
what could come next.
Mm-hmm.
And I did, and I did hundreds ofsketches the first week and Matt
kind of left me alone, more orless the first few days.

(20:04):
I just did hundreds of sketchesand we went out into the main
air main entrance of thebuilding and hung'em up all on
the wall.
And we would ponder them andjust start exploring, exploring
the possibilities of what wouldbe.

Andrea (20:21):
Had you thought that that was how it was gonna go?
Were you prepared?
Did you have some ideas in mindor

Jordan (20:26):
were you I didn't, I, I didn't have any expectations.
I had, I had expectations when Isent to my resume, and that was
either I wouldn't hear from him,or an assistant would reach out
and set up an interview, andthen there'd be another
interview.
And, and when, when Matt justcalled me half an hour later and
offered me a job mm-hmm.

(20:46):
I, I kind of threw all myexpectations out the window
before I arrived on my first

Andrea (20:50):
day.
Well, that was probably the onething that you needed to do,
actually, to work well with him,or he's definitely not, typical
in any way.
But how did it feel to firstmeet him?
Did you think, okay, this isgonna work, or was it just all a
bit unclear?

Jordan (21:06):
No, I, I felt, I felt excited.
Matt had a big smile on his facewhen I first saw him, and I
could tell he was excited tohave someone fresh and, and
probably young too, and almost,almost naive and I think that
gives you this whole world ofpossibilities.
And I think he saw that from thebeginning.

(21:26):
I think he was excited to, to beable to work with someone that's
not coming from another brand,that doesn't have these, these
preconceived ideas or biases.
You know, I was just kind of ablank slate for the company.
And I think Matt saw a lot ofadvantages in that.
So he was excited.
I could see that.

(21:46):
That made me really excited.
I definitely, I felt like it wasgonna be a long-term
relationship from the start.

Andrea (21:52):
There is a lot of power right.
In that youth and coming freshand being so excited and it's
kind of wonderful that insteadof trying to.
Direct you or fit you intosomething.
He was just like, let's like,you know, explore.
That's, um, it's a littleunusual, isn't it?
But do you think that had a, doyou think that had a positive
influence?

Jordan (22:11):
I think for sure.
I think there's, there's prosand cons to experience.
You know, you could hire someonethat's been in the industry for,
for 20 years and they have thiswealth of knowledge and
experience and they know howthings are done and they know
how things work.
And that of course has itsadvantages.
But it could have some cons too.
I think when Matt saw this youngkid walk into the office who's

(22:34):
never designed a productionvehicle at all, whether it's a
car or a motorcycle, I think hesaw this sort of dreamer.
And so he sent me into an officewith a pen and a blank pad of
paper and just told me to, todraw.
And were most of the things Isketched up feasible.
Uh, not, not from the start, butthey certainly could have led to

(22:58):
to new fresh ideas.

Andrea (23:00):
So you were sketching all this in 2d, didn't just like
putting them on the walls.
That's how I'm imagining it.

Jordan (23:04):
Just literally pen on pen on paper and then a put a
piece of scotch tape on thepaper and stick it to the wall
and step back and look at it.
I love that.
And usually, and usually pointout what's wrong with it.

Andrea (23:17):
So it was almost like, uh, a good way for you both to
get to know each other and whatyou liked and what you didn't.
But it sounds like at first itdidn't go so well or, I mean it
went well as far as theexploration, but you didn't
really get anything that youboth liked at first or what was
happening?

Jordan (23:31):
We spent, we spent a lot of time doing that.
And there are a lot of coolthings in there.
There are a lot of coolsketches.
Uh, we started out sketchingaround the power train of the
Fighter that they're bringinginto production.
You know, how can we take thisplatform, and modularly apply it
to a new style or a new form?

(23:52):
Um, and there's a lot of coolstuff, but there's nothing that
really took it to the next levelbeyond simply a restyling.
There, there was nothing superfresh and innovative in there.
But there's, there aredefinitely cool sketches, and
there were some designs that wecould have brought to production

(24:13):
that probably would've soldgreat, but they weren't, they
weren't pushing motorcycling orthe motorcycle industry by any
means, you know, into thefuture.

Andrea (24:23):
So they weren't at that edge, they weren't quite popping
with that, whatever that is.
That transformative, strangeanimal, I don't know, whatever
you were trying to describeearlier.
That's kind of what you wereboth looking for

Jordan (24:34):
yeah.
It hadn't quite come, you know,that you would point to some and
say, Ooh, that that's reallycool, you know?
Mm-hmm.
That one looks slick.
That would look great out on theroad, but there was nothing
where you saw it and it just youknow, dropped your jaw and made
you say, we have to make that.
Mm-hmm.
That, that hadn't, that hadn'thit for a little while.
And I think that's what we werelooking for.

(24:55):
We were fresh in the phase.
You don't wanna rush it.
Mm-hmm.
The new bike still hasn't evenstarted, uh, customer deliveries
yet.
So you have some time and, andyou, you do wanna find that
thing that you just, you know,it keeps you up at night cuz you
just have to make it.

Andrea (25:12):
And you did find it eventually, but not probably in
the way either of you reallyexpected.
Because up till then the companywas only making ICEs, right?
Internal combustion enginemotorcycles.
So I guess all the sketches werefor those, right?

Jordan (25:24):
They were, and they were originally around the X 1 32
V-Twin engine that was in theFighter.
And when we kind of hadexhausted ideas around that, we
started branching out, westarted exploring bringing in
different types of motors, 90degree V twins, boxer twins.
We started branching out withinICE uh, but we had the same

(25:48):
dilemma, nothing that we had tomake, nothing that was really
moving, moving the ball down thefield.
Um, And I remember sitting inthe office one evening, six,
6:30 PM and I asked Matt if hehad ever dabbled in EV and I
expected him to say no.
But he told me yes.
He, he told me when he wasworking with Pierre Terblanche,

(26:09):
they had explored, uh, EVpowertrains and designs and he
showed me some of the sketchesthey had done and there was some
really interesting stuff.
And I think we both thoughtmaybe this is what we're looking
for.
Let's start playing around withthis.
So the next day I basicallystarted that sketch program from

(26:31):
the start as if it was my firstday.
But with, with the possibilitiesof EV technology.

Andrea (26:38):
That's quite a turn.
Did it just come to you too?
Or had you been thinking aboutelectric vehicles?

Jordan (26:43):
I hadn't been thinking about'em all that much.
but when I asked Matt and hesaid they had explored with it,
I thought maybe this is, maybethis opens up, some new
possibilities, with the sketchprogram, maybe there are
different packagingopportunities, different
performance capabilities.
Um, and so that was somethingfresh that we were looking for.

(27:07):
And I think it, it got usexcited to kind of say, okay,
let's, let's just pretend we'restarting from the beginning
again, but with this technology,what could we do there?
And does that get us excited?

Andrea (27:19):
Yeah.
So you started to fill thespark, what was kind of the
state of electronic electronicvehicles then.
That was around 2015 or so, orwhen was

Jordan (27:28):
that?
That was, yeah, that was, it wasprobably fall 2015.
Okay.
Um,

Andrea (27:34):
there wasn't the craze of Tesla, for example, then,
right?
Or was

Jordan (27:38):
it just starting?
No, there, there, there wasn'tthe craze.
Maybe the, the craze was gonnabe starting within the year or
so.
Mm-hmm.
Tesla had been around for alittle bit.
They were still really pricey,um, in the world of motorcycles.
Zero motorcycles had been aroundfor a few years, but hadn't,
hadn't caught on,, in terms ofgoing viral by any means.

(28:01):
So the state of the EV worldwas, was still pretty quiet, if
you will.

Andrea (28:07):
So it was a bit of a.
A risk in even more of a waythan it might, it might seem
today.
But you mentioned the V-twin,and this is important, for
Curtiss.
Glenn Curtiss, the name of thecompany that you now work with
Matt for, which we're about toget to, how that happened but h
how does, that's been soimportant with, with the ICEs
and you both knew that, andyou'd been drawing a lot of

(28:29):
sketches like that.
So did you think, okay, how arewe gonna get this with the EV?
Seems a little dissonant.

Jordan (28:35):
Yeah.
There are definitely discussionshad about what do you, what do
you carry over, you know, theiconic American V-Twin that
Glenn Curtiss first built in1902, a year before Harley was
even founded.
It just went on to becomearguably the most, popular.

(28:56):
Well known, thought out, iconicpowertrain in the world.
Iconic, that's the word I waslooking for.
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
Um, the American V-twin, it'sjust an absolute icon for sure.
What does that, how does thattranslate to EV if it does at
all?
Uh, the, the sound, the, theaesthetic of it?

(29:16):
Yeah.

Andrea (29:17):
Just the look of those bikes, that double

Jordan (29:20):
it's very, it's very special.
You know, the, the, the V- Twinsthat Matt had used in his
confederates always had justthis very powerful, the elegant
look.
When I was in school, we had a,a studio sponsored by Harley
Davidson, and the chief ofdesign came in and he described
their V-Twin as the diamondwithin the, the ring setting.

(29:43):
You know, we think of it as, oh,wow.
As the diamond, as the jewel.
And, and that's a great way tothink of it, especially for the
American V-Twin.
Such an iconic.
Uh,, platform.
So we had discussions aboutwhat, what does it mean to go
EV, especially as an Americanmanufacturer and, and how do you
fill those shoes?
If it's, it's, you're walkingaway from that, what are you

(30:03):
walking into?
And that was a problem from thevery beginning that needed some
sort of solution.

Andrea (30:11):
Yeah.
The solution you found is prettyexciting.
I guess it was the Zeus rightprototype that we, we should get
around to talking about that.
Was the first, the first kind ofcoming together of all these
ideas, or was it?

Jordan (30:22):
It was, it was.
W hen we decided to build theZeus, we had a handful of forms
and styles that we had settledon.
That was kind of when we werefinding Curtiss 2.0, figuring
out what it was gonna be.
How are we gonna launch thebrand, introduce the brand to
the world.
Um, and we had settled on theZeus and we were still trying to

(30:46):
figure out what Curtiss is goingto be and what we want Curtiss
to stand for.
And at the time we were enamoredby the capabilities of the EV
technology, the power and thetorque.
And this was just coming off ofConfederate and these big,
powerful, strong, V- twins.

(31:08):
And so we were still a littlebit on that sort of high, if you
will.
And so we took two, um, electricmotors and put them together on
one shaft in one casing.
We, we branded it the E-Twin.
I love that

Andrea (31:25):
Had that, anything like that been done before.
Seems almost a simple thing totry,

Jordan (31:29):
but it, it was, it was surprisingly simple to do.
We hadn't discovered it before,but it was surprisingly simple
to do it.
It created some packaging issuesthat we later decided, weren't
gonna work outside of the motor,but in terms of doing the motor
as an E-Twin, it, it was arelatively elegant solution.
And, and it sounded cool.

(31:51):
It looked cool.
It had a ton of power.
It had a ton of torque.

Andrea (31:54):
Yeah, definitely looked really

Jordan (31:55):
cool.
That's what we decided to, yeah.

Andrea (31:57):
Yeah.
Just the, where you can just seethe two engines.
It's beautiful.

Jordan (32:01):
It is, it is.
it has sort of an equallypowerful look as the V twins
did, so it had some successesfor sure.

Andrea (32:10):
So this is also the time period that Confederate was
changing to Curtis.
Was that also kind of adiscussion that you and Matt had
and decided and was that tied tothis total, like, all in, we're
gonna go electric, we'rerestarting this rebirth.
It feels like, in a way,

Jordan (32:25):
It wasn't obvious to us at the start what to do.
When we first started sketchingelectric motorcycles, I was
leaving them unbranded for alittle while and then we started
sketching them with Confederatebranding and Curtiss branding.
At one point Matt had mentionedto me that he had just recently
gotten the Curtis trademark,which I thought was amazing.

(32:48):
And of course he's told thestory about how it was the
easiest trademark he's evergotten, which

Andrea (32:52):
blows my mind hard to believe.
People just don't know GlennCurtiss somehow he's like such a
hero in aviation and motorcyclesin car.

Jordan (33:00):
I, I was ashamed that I had never learned about him.
You know, my, my daughter iscertainly gonna learn about him
cuz he's, he's the man thatchanged our country and the, our
world for sure.
He is an amazing guy.
He should be taught rightalongside Edison and the Wright
brothers,

Andrea (33:15):
but he not, maybe he can drive the plane that your
daughter is in, which isactually your car when you're
telling her the stories orThat's a good,

Jordan (33:23):
that's a good idea.
Maybe.
He'll yeah.
So yeah, it wasn't obvious atfirst.
It, it took us a while.
We were sketching ElectricConfederates.
Electric Curtiss, and at onepoint in June, 2016.
Our third co-founder, who isour, our first and biggest
investor in the brand, kind ofpushed us over the edge.

(33:43):
And it was that night wedecided, let's go all in on
Curtiss.
If we're gonna do this, let's doit.
Right.
Let's go all in.
let's be able to be laserfocused.
100% on one thing.
Let's not divide our attention.
So we said, we're startingfresh, we're going electric,
we're gonna be Curtiss.

Andrea (34:02):
And that happened at night.
Were you together or were youseparate what was that night
like?
I don't know if what was goingon that

Jordan (34:07):
happened that happened, uh, towards the end of the day,
we got the email in, from ourinvestor that pushed us over to
the edge, and, and Matt said,let's do it.
And I was fully on board.
I said, let's do it.
So we, we went home.
We got some sleep.
We came in the next morning andwe were Curtiss.

(34:27):
Wow.
We had to, we, we had to make itformal and,, and legal and do
all that stuff.
Mm-hmm.
But in our minds, the nextmorning we were Curtiss here on
and out and it was, it wasexciting.
Walking in the doors thatmorning it was exciting as, as
my first day of work.
So it felt like it, it was thefirst day of

Andrea (34:44):
work at Curtiss.
Another rebirth And your rolewas different too, right?
And instead of coming into acompany, you're now sort of
starting a company in a way.

Jordan (34:52):
It definitely felt different.
I felt,, so much more involvedin the company as a whole and
the brand, I wasn't just kind ofa new, fresh, young kid, lowest
on the totem pole sketcher.
I was, I was right in theremaking these decisions with
Matt, which felt crazy to be soyoung in making those decisions.
But it shows you, within thatyear, cuz I had started with

(35:15):
Matt June 15th, 2015.
Um, so within a year we just hadcreated this, this wonderful
relationship and I knew hetrusted me and really took
consideration in what I wouldsay and, and listened to my
ideas and respected my ideas asI did his.
Um, so it said a lot about,about the relationship we had

(35:39):
created in a year.

Andrea (35:41):
It definitely does.
There's something he gives youif, when it works with Matt, um,
there's something really specialthat happens there, that there's
some kind of interaction orfreedom to explore, but also be
supported that happens.
That doesn't often happen in themotoring world when it comes to,
designing and building forsomeone who owns the company.

Jordan (36:02):
He puts a lot of trust into the people he works with.
And, and with that trust comes,comes all the support you'll
ever need.
And it comes with the rightamount of, of critique and
criticism, which is allsupportive.
It really is, special to workwith him.

Andrea (36:21):
So now we're up to Curtiss, which formed officially
in 2016.
Um, how do you think of yourrole and in this, in the
company, in the creative, in thecreation of, of the bikes that
were to come.

Jordan (36:35):
My role today.
I, I see it.
I, I feel like it has sort ofevolved almost, almost Matt's
chief of staff, if you will.
I don't touch everything, but Itouch almost everything in the
company with Matt, almost likean operations guy.
I still work a lot in design andstyling, and we work on future,
future facing product portfolio,what's going to come over the

(36:57):
next several years, beyond whatwe're doing right now.
And then Matt and I spend a lotof time on, on brand, how we
want to present our brand, thestory we want to tell with our
brand, uh, strategy movingforward, whether it's product or
financial, anything creative.
So you're both really

Andrea (37:17):
full into every part of it, more or less.

Jordan (37:20):
We, we really are.
and we listen to each other alot and we share.
Our thoughts and we're honestwith each other.
Um, it's a lot of fun.
It's one of the things I loveabout working with such a small
team is that you do get to touchso many areas of the company
that it doesn't come somonotonous.
Mm-hmm.

Andrea (37:38):
Well, I wanna know how, how you first heard of JT
Nesbitt and how you met him and,cause he's another one of those
team members that we, we shoulddiscuss a bit.
But first, let's go back to theZeus just for a minute.
I know it was a big deal.
Uh, it got a lot of press.
It was beautiful.
but it, it never quite went intoproduction, right?
Can you just gimme a littlerecap of the Zeus?

Jordan (37:59):
Yeah.
It never did,, it never did getinto production.
We introduced it in May, 2018 atthe Quail motorcycle gathering.
And that was, that was when weintroduced the brand publicly to
the world.
Yeah.
Wow.
Um, so we had, we had the pressat, at our tent, and we showed
the bike and we introduced thebrand and we talked about Glen

(38:22):
and talked about what we weredoing.
And it was very well received.
Alan Cathcart rode it and heloved it.
Um, but there's always, we, wealways had this feeling and the
realization we came to with theZeus was that what we had
actually done was designed anelectric Confederate.

(38:42):
it was still about, uh, kind ofthis raw, primitive.
Power and, and torque and sortof badassery.
Mm-hmm.

Andrea (38:52):
Yeah.
The E-Twin is a sketch of that.
I mean, it's, it's strong andbeautiful in its own right,

Jordan (38:56):
but mm-hmm.
Yes.
It, it is.
And it ticked all those boxes.
Mm-hmm.
Beautifully.
But, but all the boxes, it, it,it was ticking.
It was still Confederate.
So it didn't feel truly like aCurtiss to us.
Hmm.
Uh, just a, just a few monthsafter that event, Matt had told
me that he had started talkingto jt, who I was very fond of.

(39:21):
he had worked on the Wraith, soof course I knew who he was.
He's kind of the designer thatled me to design.

Andrea (39:28):
He's definitely one of those designers people know,

Jordan (39:30):
he, he is, especially in the motorcycle world, but even
outside of it.
And, if I, if I had a designhero, it was JT Nesbitt.
And so the idea that Matt wasconsidering bringing him onto
the team, I was super excited.
If he's willing to join up and,and bring his wealth of
knowledge to our team,, let's doit.

Andrea (39:51):
Do you remember when you first met him?
Did you go down to New Orleansor How did that, do you, do you
remember that first meeting?
I,

Jordan (39:58):
I do.
I I had actually met JT a coupleyears earlier.
He had come up and visited us inBirmingham.
And he had showed us some of thestuff he was working on and he
gave me a couple little designseminars.
Cause I was still at the rookieand he was the seasoned veteran,
the motorcycle design pro, ifyou will.
He's always excited to share hisknowledge and, and he, he is

(40:20):
good at explaining things and,and teaching, but I wasn't sure
if I'd ever see him again afterthat.
It was a, it was a fun visit,but when I found out he'd be
joining the team, I was superexcited how many people get to
meet their hero, let alone workwith them.
So it was very exciting

Andrea (40:36):
that he was very unusual.
Were you intimidated at all orwere you just ready to go?

Jordan (40:42):
I wasn't intimidated despite his six foot six
stature.
He's very kind and, and gentleand, uh, he's, he's always
wanting his teammates to learnmore.
Uh, he's, he's a

Andrea (40:54):
joy to work with.
So did you and Matt and him, andwas Pam around in, in, in all of
this too?
Did you all just kind of gettogether and discuss like, what
are we gonna do?
And it's gonna be electric, howare we gonna find the style
that, that is Curtiss?
What is Curtiss, did you havethese discussions?

Jordan (41:09):
little bit as a team, but as Matt does, Matt let JT do
his thing and we kind of left JTalone for a little while.
And, while JT was working onwhat he wanted to be working on,
Matt and I spent more time on,on brand because we still
weren't 100% satisfied withwhere we landed in terms of
brand presentation andnarrative.

(41:31):
Matt and I really spent sometime digging deep into Curtiss
as a brand and, and the meaningbehind Curtiss while, while JT
was diving deep into the bikeitself.
And after some time, JTpresented his work to us and we
gave him the usual support andcriticism.

(41:52):
And he took that and rolled withthat, and then eventually turned
into, into the One that we seetoday, uh, over the course of
several years.
It was a long process, but JTsextremely thorough with his
work.
Mm-hmm.
Um,

Andrea (42:08):
he definitely lives and breathes it too.

Jordan (42:10):
For sure.
He absolutely does.
There's no doubt about that.

Andrea (42:13):
But he changed your E-Twin.
So how did that, what, whathappened?
Something else incredible cameout of it.
Really an amazing innovation.

Jordan (42:21):
Yeah.
I think you're referencing ouraccess centered design mm-hmm.
Which is, our patented kind ofprimary innovation of the One.
Conceptually, Matt and I knewthat it kind of made sense to
put the swing arm pivot on theaxle of the motor, kind of the
center line of the electricmotor.

(42:41):
Okay.
And that would keep things supersimple and, and as slim as
possible.
But our faux version of it, itwasn't direct drive like the
axle center is.
We kind of just had caps and theswing arm mounted around

Andrea (42:56):
the center line, so you didn't have that shaft?

Jordan (42:58):
It was, it was, no, it was located in the right real
estate, but it didn't, it didn'thave, uh, the function that our
access center design has that JTcame up with.
So, so I think JT saw.
What we had done on the Zeus.
And he said, that's a reallyinelegant solution to the
problem you're trying to solve,which it was.

(43:21):
and so he solved it veryelegantly by mounting the swing
arm directly onto the shaft ofthe motorcycle.
so the motor is driving the rearwheel directly.
Um, it keeps the bike supernarrow at that point, at a point
where the motorcycle usuallykind of keeps getting wider and
wider.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it keeps everything justperfectly centered on the

(43:44):
motorcycle.
It's a really beautiful, it'svery minimal solution.
It's very minimal minimalist interms of engineering and design.
It's a, it's a great solution.
It is.

Andrea (43:53):
I love it.
So that's, that's even moreinteresting that it, it did kind
of evolve

Jordan (43:57):
a bit.
It, it evolved and it needed alot of, of evolution.
Conceptually, Matt and I kind ofknew what made sense, but we
were not intelligent enough to,to figure out how to execute it
at all.
And

Andrea (44:09):
or just maybe, yeah, there's different ways of being
intelligent.
It's

Jordan (44:12):
a, a different form of intelligence, but it's a form of
intelligence that JT has.
He does naturally have that.
He ca he, he came in and I thinkrelatively simply created what
is, without a doubt, the bestway to make an electric

Andrea (44:26):
motorcycle.
For sure.
It's super cool.
Yeah.
And, um, we should talk aboutVinay a bit too, because there's
other innovations and very coolthings with the battery, and I'm
not even sure what all he'sdone, but when did he come into
the picture?

Jordan (44:39):
Vinay came into the picture?
I wanna say 2019 ish.
Okay.

Andrea (44:46):
So you had the

Jordan (44:46):
design.
We had the, the designconceptually was there, but
there's still a lot of work todo to, to make it a production
vehicle.
It had to go through, manyevolutions and there was a lot
of engineering work to find out.
And, and Vinay joined up andVinay was fresh out of college
and he didn't have a bunch ofexperience, but he was, uh, a

(45:07):
sponge in terms of absorbingknowledge.
He worked every day with JT thetwo of'em worked on every
millimeter of the motorcycle.
They both know it like the backof their hand

Andrea (45:19):
A different form of intelligence.

Jordan (45:20):
A different form of

Andrea (45:21):
intelligence.
Yeah,

Jordan (45:22):
So he was, so, Vinay was, was absolutely instrumental
in helping JT, get the CurtisOne over the finish line and
make it a real product.

Andrea (45:33):
So what's, tell me now, you've been on, you've been on
this bike, the Curtis one, andhow does it compare to an ICE?
Because of course people arevery, loyal to their I C E and
what's an L E V experiencereally like?
I think Riding an

Jordan (45:52):
electric vehicle, I think it's amazing.
It's so simple and smooth andsort of, uh, majestic and
peaceful.
I, I'll preface it by saying Idon't ride motorcycles a lot.
I'm kind of a weird motorcycledesigner that doesn't ride
motorcycles.
I have ridden motorcycles and Ihave my license.
Mm-hmm.
But I didn't have a ton ofexperience.
I think for a few reasons.

(46:13):
I think in, in recent years,there aren't a lot of motorcycle
designs that have compelled meto say, I have to go buy that.
Uh, growing up as a kid I wasnot allowed to own a motorcycle.
It was my mother's rule.
And yeah, my parents said, onceyou're out of college and in off
our dime you can go buy amotorcycle cause we can't tell
you what to do at that point.

(46:34):
Uh, so for my whole life Iwanted a motorcycle.
I think I wanted a motorcyclecause I wasn't allowed to have
one.
Yeah.
And so I was told myself the dayI graduate college mom, I'm
going out and buying, buying amotorcycle., the day I graduated
college was also the day I wasallowed to buy a motorcycle.
And I think I felt a littlecompelled to do so when I was

(46:56):
allowed to do it Right.
But, but at the same time,nothing compelled me.
There was nothing I had to have.
There was nothing I reallywanted to be seen on or ride.
Nothing got me super excited.
I figured the time would come.
So I don't have a ton ofbragging

Andrea (47:13):
experience.
Some.
Yeah.
It's good you bring that up,because the Curtis, it's opening
up a whole new,, group of peoplewho are interested in it.
There's this kind of strangething with the Curtis where we
touched on it a little bitbefore.
It's an art object.
It's the technology.
Um, you like to just be aroundit.
I don't know.
What do you think the Curtis Oneseems to be even more, um,

(47:34):
Inclusive or opening the spaceto people who might not
completely feel comfortableriding a motorcycle,

Jordan (47:41):
It's so, it's so simple and approachable.
Um, you know, the, theConfederates, they're so,
they're so cool and exotic andbadass.
At the same time, they're veryintimidating.
Oh yeah.
They're, they're, and I wasnervous, you know, Matt would
say, all right, go take one forride.

(48:01):
Cause I was scared of them.
I didn't, I didn't wanna rideone, to be completely honest.
No way.
But I also didn't wanna say, noboss.
I can't ride that.
So I was nervous and they wereintimidating.
Um, they're just hard

Andrea (48:13):
to control too.
I mean, they are intimidating,but they're really powerful.
Some of them depends which one Iguess, but they

Jordan (48:19):
are, Uh, the Curtis One, the first time I, I walked up to
the one that I rode, notintimidated at all, and I
probably should have been hishundred thousand dollars, uh
mm-hmm.
Beta prototype.
One of, one of a kind.
You don't wanna be the personthat wrecks that.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so, so I, I should have beenintimidated, but I wasn't
because I knew, I knew thetechnology in it.

(48:42):
I knew that perfect balance thatthe axis center design gives it,
that JT came up with that.
I knew it was gonna be easy.
I, I hopped on it.
JT snapped a photo of me and Iwent off and it was as easy as
could be.
It was super fun.
It was magical.
It was, it was peaceful.

(49:03):
It's just kind of you and alittle bit of road noise and,
but you still hear nature.
There's nothing to do or thinkabout in terms of controlling
it.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's really as easy as itcould be.
So even though I probably shouldhave felt intimidated, I, I felt
no intimidation.

(49:23):
So approachable, verycomfortable Sounds meditative
almost.
It does, it puts you at ease andthey're really, you don't need
to be thinking about anything.
You don't need to be thinkingabout shifting a clutch.
You don't need to be thinkingabout heat or, or where I can
touch, where I have my legs.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
None of, none of that.

(49:44):
There's nothing to think aboutexcept the ride and your
environment.
And so it's just an absolutejoy.
What color

Andrea (49:52):
was the first one you rode?
I'm trying to just.

Jordan (49:54):
It was black.
it was black with a red battery.
Very

Andrea (49:57):
pretty.
Oh, that's pretty.
And where did you ride it to?
Just around the neighborhood or?

Jordan (50:02):
We were outside of the Barber Motorsports Museum in
Birmingham.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Up there on that road.
It's got some really beautiful,long winding roads.
Mm-hmm.
And there was, it had juststarted to drizzle.
There was no one out on theroad.
It was a, it was a reallywonderful ride.

Andrea (50:18):
Hmm.
Great first ride, absolutely.
So, what's the sensoryexperience like?
How is it different from the ICEand the LEV?
You already said it a littlebit, but do you think it loses
anything?
Let's be honest.
A lot of people like this crazyexplosion and noise and to where
it really takes all of yourattention and almost numbs you.

(50:39):
It's almost like escaping toride some of these ICEs,
although it takes so muchdiscipline too.
But the LEV can can it compareto that?
Really?

Jordan (50:49):
I think they just, I don't think it loses anything.,
I think they just don't reallycompare.
I think they're just twodifferent experiences.
Even though it's two wheels,it's a motorcycle, it's, it's
two different activities in mymind, on the ICE you're very
conscious of, of the machine andthe mechanics and that can be
really cool, especially ifyou're on something like a

(51:11):
Confederate fighter.
That's got this loud thumpingroaring V-Twin that's just
badass mm-hmm.
It's like a, a fighter jetthat's super cool.
There's just something visceralabout it.

Andrea (51:25):
Yeah.
You can feel the power of it inthe sound.

Jordan (51:27):
Yeah.
And then on the other end, on,on the ev, uh, you hear the
birds chirping and if it's niceweather, you just see that
you're more conscious of yourenvironment.
I think, I think on the ICE,you're more conscious of the
machine, and on the EV you'remore conscious of the
environment, but I think it'slike the difference between,

(51:50):
rock music or classical music.
I think people can enjoy both,but they're just two different
things.

Andrea (51:57):
I like that.
Or there would be some peoplewho might really enjoy the
meditative surfing, martial art,kind of LEV and some people who
would,, want the noise andthat's fine.
Right.
So, um, I'm wondering it's alittle off the subject, but I'm
wondering if, when we have thesekind of conversations, it seems
like all you do is sort of liveand breathe, Curtiss and the
motorcycles.
And maybe it is that way, but Iwonder what else inspires you in

(52:19):
life that you sort of bring toCurtiss?
what other interests do youhave, Jordan?

Jordan (52:24):
Inspiration?
The first thing for me would befamily outside of Curtis, I
think.
Matt probably feels like he's mystepdad cuz he's probably
watched me grown up since I'vestarted working at Curtiss.
I got engaged, I got married, Ihad my first kid, I bought my
first house.
So I've gone through all thesethings.
Family life is, is veryimportant to me.

(52:47):
It's spending time around mywife and daughter.
It's what kind of builds my cupafter a long day of putting in
work for Curtiss.
And kind of re-energizes me forthe next day.
You know, watching my daughtergrow up.
That's definitely my primarysource of inspiration these
days.
How old is she?
Um, but she's almost two now.

(53:09):
So she's just going through thisphase where she's just learning
new things every day and gettingfaster and saying more words.
So that's,

Andrea (53:17):
Very inspiring.
That's magical.
How could it not be?

Jordan (53:19):
And then aside from that, I just love, I love,
observing and admiring any formof craft and design, whether
it's fashion or local arts orarchitecture.
I always have this appreciationfor people that do design well
and have a sense ofcraftsmanship.

(53:42):
I find those sorts of things

Andrea (53:44):
very inspiring.
I can see after thisconversation how it relates to
your work with Curtiss becauseit is a kind of a family.
There's something, all thosethemes actually are continuous,
they sort of connect, right?
That people who really careabout what they're doing, the
connection to art and design andobjects that really mean
something.
That does become like a familyand um, y with your people that

(54:08):
you trust and love, like yourwife and your child, but also
your work work colleagues.
You do kind of, you know,explore the world together.
That's what makes it meaningful.

Jordan (54:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Uh, Matt and I talk about sortof our dreams for the company,
and I often tell Matt that Ijust have this vision in my head
from, from the day we started.
And that's that, I'm.
I'm 80 years old and I have mygrandkid on my lap.
And I, and Curtiss is thispowerful, sustaining great

(54:38):
American brand.
And I'm able to tell them that,I was there at the beginning of
all of this.
And I think that's something I'dlike to instill in the culture
and all of the people that comethrough Curtiss over the next
few decades is, that sort of,passion and pride for what we're
doing and, and it's somethingthat you wanna share with the

(55:01):
people you care about most.
Cause it's something you'reproud of.
And.
You love.

Andrea (55:05):
And it's something you want to last, you want to pass
on.
And I think that speaks a bit tothe way this bike is made too.
Right.
I'd like, you know, before we goto talk a little bit about this
idea of the environment andecology and what sustainability
really means.
Um, I mean, I, I hear whatyou're saying, uh, is kind of
resonating with that, but maybeyou could clarify it a little

(55:25):
bit more for me.

Jordan (55:28):
Yeah, for sure.
When I talk about sustainabilityin, in the context of Curtis, I
always use the term truesustainability.
And that's sort of this,creation of something that's
gonna last forever.
It's sort of the, uh,, the antiplanned obsolescence or anti

(55:48):
fast fashion.
So, uh, you know, buy, buy apair of jeans that's gonna last
you 10, 15 years.
Don't buy a new pair of jeansevery six months.
I think that's realsustainability.
I think that's sustainability.
That's far more meaningful inthe long term than just the
clean technology that's in thebike itself.
And so I think that's really,the important discussion that

(56:10):
needs to be had when we talkabout sustainability in our
industry.
And that's just something thatif you instill that in the
product, not only is it moresustainable, but I think it's
more, it's more meaningful andit's something to be proud of.

Andrea (56:23):
Uh when you're 80, you can look back and feel good
about what you're telling yourgrandkids about.

Jordan (56:28):
Absolutely.
And when I'm 80, I can, I canhand off, uh, my Curtis one to,
to my child or my grandchild.
And it's in as good of conditionas, as the day.
I took delivery of it decadesago and we've upgraded the
battery cells and put freshtires on it.

(56:50):
It's actually a bettermotorcycle than the day I took
delivery of it.
And, and I could leave this withyou.
With this incredible machinethat was crafted decades and
decades ago, but is gettingbetter over time and is never
gonna go away.
It could be in the familyforever.
It could become this reallyspecial family heirloom.

Andrea (57:11):
Absolutely.
A vehicle all that memory.

Jordan (57:14):
Exactly.
And we didn't send 15 othermotorcycles to the landfill over
the course of those decades.
We've always had this one in ourgarage and we've taken care of
it and it's taken care of us.
Well,

Andrea (57:25):
I love that idea so much and, in the end, that's what we
want.
We want to have done somethingmeaningful with our lives and to
have something sort ofrepresents that, that we can
pass on to others, whatever itmay be, that's the best use of
any object.
But at the same time, I have tosay, you're a company and you
wanna be profitable and.

(57:45):
I think that that is actually agood definition of profit, but
it's, is it the kind ofdefinition of profit that works
in the capitalist world thatyou're in?
Or is it just you're gonna dothis no matter what and set a
new trajectory others canfollow?
I mean, how do you see that?

Jordan (58:01):
No, I think it, I think it can definitely be profitable.
I think you have to have somemeaning to what you do, and I
think that's, a valid thing forus to pursue.
And it's a philosophy won't, wewant to apply to all sorts of
different categories.
You know, we're starting so, sofar up with the one, six figure
motorcycle.

(58:21):
But we're gonna work our workour way down.
And I've imagined us working onall the way down to, to, you
know, a toy that my daughterwould ride around the house
right now.
But, but having that besomething that, that she can
save for her daughter in thefuture.
This was the bike I learned toride on and it still works

(58:44):
great.
You're gonna learn to ride onthat bike.
And, and so, so we're, I thinkwe're able to apply this
technology to such a vast array,um, within the spectrum of our
portfolio that, there's alwaysgonna be business to be had for
sure.

Andrea (59:00):
So, just to kind of finish up, you've already
touched on it a little bit, butI guess I wonder about what you
think about this idea of desire.
I, it's, um, it's something thatis talked about a lot desire and
luxury and so on, and.
I wonder, you know, you sort ofmade things happen in your life
and you sort of, I don't know ifit was consciously or
unconsciously, but I wonder howyou see this idea of desire and

(59:22):
that you're actually puttingthis object into the world that
other people want.
How do you see all these thingsas, are they connected for you?
This, the feeling you're givingsomeone of freedom and desire
for the object and theexperience of, of riding it and
also, your own life andexperience with motoring?

Jordan (59:40):
I think so, yeah.
I, I kind of link the worddesire with the word dream,
which I used before and, andsort of my motoring memories.
Uh, you know, whatever you'reriding on or in, there's just
this, you can have these dreamsand there's this possibility of
being whatever you wanna be and,and making that happen.

(01:00:02):
So, so for me, the desire andthe dream are linked together.
And I think, you know, theCurtis one is the perfect device
for that.
I like that

Andrea (01:00:12):
you, that you link those.
And it is interesting that youtalked about this kind of dream
space your dad opened up for,for you in terms of movement.
And there is a, a kind of puredesire in that too, right?
It's not wanting something, it'sjust, uh, motivation maybe is
even better word, like beingpresent to the world and being
part of it.
Overall, this time it's been,um, not quite 10 years, but it's

(01:00:34):
been a while that you've beenworking with Matt and for
Curtiss, and I guess your lifehas changed a lot in that time.
So before we go, if you couldjust say something like, in your
own life, personal,professional, whatever that,
that you think of as a real, uh,moving moment.
Something that's moved you, overthis time.
That you've been working withCurtiss this time or really of,

(01:00:55):
of growing, becoming an adultand, and a man in, in a
different way?

Jordan (01:01:00):
Uh, I think it would go back to, to sending my resume to
Matt and kind of starting thewhole journey was, was the
support I got from my familywas, was always very moving cuz
it was kind of a, a bold, crazymove.
But my family and my loved onesand my buddies at school, there
was never any doubt in anyone'smind.

(01:01:23):
Uh, you know, so there's a lotof support for me doing what I
wanted to do and not followingthe flock.
Following the herd.
Um, that was a moving moment,right at the very start of my
journey with Curtiss.

Andrea (01:01:39):
And that's one that the more you live, the more moving
it becomes because you realizehow unique it is actually to
have, have people support you inthat way and, and, and how hard
it would've been without it, youknow?

Jordan (01:01:51):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

Andrea (01:01:53):
It's always a bit of a group effort, I guess, moving.
Mm-hmm.
All right.
Well thanks Jordan.
It's been really great to talkto you as, and, um, I'm looking
forward to, seeing more of whatis to come over these next
decades.

Jordan (01:02:06):
Absolutely.
There's a lot to come for sure.
It's gonna be fun.
It is,

Andrea (01:02:10):
I'm sure.
All right.
Well, best of luck to you ineverything.
Thank you.
Thank

Jordan (01:02:14):
you for having me.
Yep.
Take care.

Andrea (01:02:16):
You too.
Bye.
Bye.