July 14, 2023 • 49 mins
Ready to hear the roar of the crowd and feel the electrifying energy of the wrestling ring? Let's join James Deighan from Mega Cat Studios, the mastermind behind WrestleQuest, the first-ever fusion of JRPG and Wrestling genres that's making waves in the gaming community. Get ready to feel the passion and dedication James and his team have poured into making this unique crossover a reality.
In a heart-to-heart chat, James walks us through the unique challenges they braved while creating this innovative game. Learn how Mega Cat Studios gained the trust of skeptical publishers and won the hearts of the wrestling fan community. He shines a spotlight on the incorporation of real wrestlers' feedback into the game, including the hilarious and sometimes bizarre requests from wrestlers who aren't typical gamers. Hear about the creative ways you can customize characters and the unique areas in-game dedicated to popular wrestling figures, all woven into a one-of-a-kind universe where Toy Story meets wrestling.
But that's not all. We take a deep dive into the mechanics of WrestleQuest, discussing the loot system, unique pin mechanics, and how they made the grind element more rewarding. Plus, we touch base on the thrill of setting up a wrestling ring at PAX East, the wave of positive response to the game, and the importance of support within the gaming industry. Brace yourself for tales of overcoming challenges, embracing creativity, and the joy of delivering an impressive gaming experience. So, whether you're a wrestling fan, a JRPG enthusiast, or someone who enjoys a good story of innovation and determination, this episode is a must-listen for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Celia Shilling from Yacht Club Games.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey, this is James from Mega Cat Studios.
Hey, this is Matt AKStormageddon from Reignite
Screensnark and the Fun andGames podcast.
This is Stephanie from the BossRush podcast and the Boss Rush
Network.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hey, this is Mark and Keon from Bonta Off-Ald.
Hey, this is Sebastian withtheproteonerreportcom and the
Single Player Experience podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey, this is Todd Mitchell from Code.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Right Play.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Salutations.
This is Mike Carroll fromStroll Art.
Hey, this is Patrick from theBacklog Odyssey.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hey, this is Rune from RuneCodes.
Hi, this is Andrew from SpaladaBirds.
Hi everyone, Jill Grote herefrom the Indie Informer.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hey, this is Brimstone and you're listening
to Roger Reichardt on theGamerheads podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And welcome to another episode of the
Gamerheads podcast.
My name is Roger Along with me.
this week I have a very specialguest.
I have James Degen from MegaCat Studios, the creators behind
the game WrestleQuest, and I'msuper excited to talk about that
game because I got to play someof it at PAX.
(01:13):
I didn't get to play as much asI wanted to.
I probably could have spent thewhole day at PAX playing.
PAX is playing this game, butI'm really happy to have James
on the show with us.
And James, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'm good.
Thanks for having us.
It was hard for me to keep myshirt on, knowing we were
talking about wrestling again.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You could pull Hulk Hogan there and rip it off for
it right Sometimes he's soexcited and so sweaty he's
sharing WrestleQuest facts.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I said to him at home there's no HR issues.
How do I say no?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, welcome to the show.
I'm so glad that we were ableto connect.
Before we get into the gameWrestleQuest, i want to ask you
a couple of questions aboutyourself First of all tell us
about yourself.
How did you get into gaming andhow did you get into the whole
creating games?
It's a good question.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I wish I had a more romantic version of the story.
But we started making games forfun with a group of us because
we had just a shared passion forretro gaming.
As collectors.
We made a couple of very badgames and then we made a couple
of games that were also bad butgood enough for other indies to
support it.
(02:29):
We were like man, this was somuch fun.
I wonder if we could do that ona commercial level.
Then fast forward eight yearslater took a while.
We just continued to persevere,i guess, and just kind of build
a path.
We're located here inPittsburgh.
We're one of only two gamingcompanies in the area.
(02:54):
Like most gaming companies onthe West Coast, it's not exactly
easy or natural to walk into anetworking event or a career
place and just find all sorts offolks who work in gaming.
Because we live in the internetworld, we can kind of message
(03:15):
anybody.
So I sort of eventually justkind of rubbing all those with
all sorts of folks who areparticipating in game jams and
making games for fun, which isalso very different than
commercial It is.
Slowly but surely we shippedaway at all the things we needed
to do to kind of budget andprepare for a wrestler quest,
which wrestler quest wasactually one of the first games
(03:38):
we ever wanted to make.
As Megaket, we just have such areverence for RPGs and what
goes into the design and theprogression and the level of
detail and the hours and monthsand years that go into it.
We're like man.
It's going to cost a lot ofmoney to do this, so we just
kept shipping away at it, but wegot pretty lucky that we found
(04:03):
a publisher around halfwaythrough.
I was willing to share thevision and we met all sorts of
wrestlers along the way thatwe're willing to jump in and
participate.
So it's really been a journey.
I'm excited that we're nearlaunch now.
It's been a long time coming.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, i love one of your promo videos.
I think was Jeff Jarrett andyou had a guitar sound and you
said, jeff, is this the sound ofguitar hitting over somebody's
head?
And he takes the guitar andhits it over somebody's head.
That's the sound we're lookingfor.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's one of my favorites.
Yeah, it's funny We have boththat broken guitar hanging in
the purse that was with itsoffice And then we have like a
2B broken second guitar waitingfor the right moment, kind of
like a pop to champagne.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I can't wait, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
So, yeah, tell us more aboutWrestleQuest.
I mean, from what I know, imean the bit that I played.
I know it's a JRPG mixed withwrestling, so can you tell a
little bit about the storybehind it and what's it about?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah.
So WrestleQuest is the world'sfirst pro wrestling JRPG
turn-based combat and all thetrimmings and game sensibilities
you'd want to see in a JRPG Oneof the goals we had at the
onset of creating WrestleQuest.
We've set a lot of goals butI'd say like, the three pillars
(05:36):
are number one.
Whether you're a wrestling fanor a JRPG fan, they wanted you
to feel satisfied playing thegame.
We didn't want it to feel likea JRPG with wrestlers snapped in
or a wrestling game thatdoesn't satisfy like a JRPG
player.
So we've put a massive amountof time.
We've actually been givingpanels now the last year and a
(05:59):
half on the restification of theJRPG and how we've tuned these
systems to make it veryauthentically wrestling and
authentically JRPG.
So that was the number onechallenge and goal.
Second one was we wanted toestablish a visual identity for
the game that was still retroand nostalgic and pixel art, but
(06:20):
paid into the homage and levelof detail of these legendary
wrestlers and likenesses andalso didn't look like the 40th
Fire Pro Wrestling game.
So we stumbled into this andthrew a lot of discussions with
friends and fans is that for alot of us our first memories of
(06:41):
wrestling were actually the toysand action figures.
So we realized that we couldalso solve that visual identity
problem and create really fundesign affordance space if
everyone had articulated jointsand moved like an action figure.
And it solves a lot of thingslike I could snap your arm off
and no blood comes out, andthat's cool.
(07:02):
We can kind of dance aroundthings like performance
enhancing drugs.
Like an action figure can havesuper glue as an analog and yeah
, right back on, and it's yeah,keeps him in the run.
So that was like a keybreakthrough for us too.
And then the last one was weset out specifically to work
(07:25):
with.
I'd say there's like fivewrestler licenses and estates we
just really always wanted towork with.
Macho Man was number one for us, road Warriors, after the giant
Jake the snake and then JeffJarrett, which are some people
laugh at.
But when people ask me myfavorite wrestler is my top
(07:45):
three, i say it's Jeff Jarrettthree times.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Wow, it's like wow.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm just like a huge fan of, and arguably Jeff has
done more for wrestling than anyother single wrestler.
At this point, yeah, thinkabout not just the like teenage
and and think like that's whatI've found in this kind of
brothers and arms world ofwrestling and locker rooms is
that Jeff is highly respectedand beloved by the actual
(08:09):
wrestlers themselves.
Would you just don't realize orappreciate when you're a fan
just watching the show, but it'slike everyone that I've ever
met has been well over 100wrestlers at this point.
They have like a true like lovefor Jeff and Jeff he does good
by them.
You know like he's a he'sdefinitely an exception and a
(08:31):
roleful, a world full of likechaos and carnies and
personalities.
You know so.
But you know we were able toaccomplish all of those things
and through hell and high waterand sweat, baby oil,
perseverance, all those things.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah and we'll get into that a little bit later
about the fact that you did havea wrestling ring set up at at
max, which was pretty awesome,and I did.
I did get to see your panel tooon the yeah yeah, i loved it
yeah, it was so good and it was,and I will say, i mean, this is
(09:10):
not just a flow your own boat,but I thought actually that was
one of the better presentationsbecause, like you had a definite
here's the agenda, here's likethe things that you went through
, like it was a swell, you'rewell done so, so nice job, um so
yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
By the way, roger, we've been in a lot of panels
now for for a few years and yeah.
I would say that the wrestlingfan is uniquely engaged and like
uh, excited.
It's like, uh, we did pack thatroom the last two times we gave
it.
But Like I've never had panelswhere we've had people follow up
with questions and responsesand the thank you notes, it's
(09:48):
been awesome.
I want to say it's wrestlingfans.
But it's like, it's um, it'sdefinitely a better reception
than we ever could have dreamedof and I just, i just love it.
It's like I feel like my peopleare all coming to see it, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, well, and it's funny because, like I've
mentioned this before, there isa fun like mix between video
game Enthusiast and wrestlingenthusiasts, right, like there's
like that crossover betweenboth of them and And you can see
it in the games, right, not,you know like, look at all the
wrestling games have been madeSince we were kids.
You know like I rememberplaying tag team wrestling like
(10:23):
the on the NES, right, whichwasn't that great but it was
okay, right, and.
And growing up with like muscle, wrestling, muscle men and the
wrestling game.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Wars are in the game boys, one of the worst games
ever played.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's a thing right like we grew up playing these
bad wrestling games And we cameup with our own stories behind
it and everything is a lot ofthese characters because, like
you, had to.
But one of the one of thethings that I really love about
this is the fact that this is,like you said, the first JRPG
game.
That's like mixes both JRPG andwrestling together.
(10:57):
So what inspired that?
like how, how did you come tothat, to that Realization like
hey, this is something we wantto do.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
You know, we have always wanted to make a
wrestling game And we alwayswanted to make an RPG and we are
mapping out, kind of thepillars of each.
So you know, something thatI've loved about the experience
is that my best friends and oneof the partners of mega cat,
zach, you know, did not followwrestling growing up.
(11:28):
Oh, and we were gonna sit inthere at the office trying to
figure out a way to make thewrestling game come to life And
I remember listing out all thepillars of what we loved about
wrestling And one of the ways wewere able to persuade him into
considering it.
Where's like we know, is thatit's really about these
spectacle, over-the-topcharacter personalities.
(11:48):
Like it's really like, like thestories they could tell and the
classes that they are like.
I think there's enough Here foranalogs.
You should at least considerLike wrestlers as character
classes and yeah you know, watchsome promos, don't worry about
the matches, don't worry aboutthe rest.
So watch them like late 80s,early 90s promos and just tell
me You don't feel youradrenaline pumping.
(12:10):
I remember he came back out ofhis uh, his like office, maybe
like two or three hours later,and he was just like this is
crazy.
He's like how does anyone getinto this, you know?
and then like a week later andhe was like you know, we have to
make this game, like we have todo this.
(12:31):
He's like I've been watchingpromos from option and plus
three hours.
He's like I don't understandwhy no one's made like a
story-driven game.
I've just like yeah like I know,dude, i knew you come around,
but you know we wanted to makethem both separately.
And then we just realized thatthe you know RPGs are great
(12:52):
Whenever they have excellentstories and progression and
classes and, as you're late at,all the things that we love
about RPGs.
We looked at how we could solvethat with wrestling and you
know if we're forcing the issueor if it felt like it could be
made natural, and we we justrealized there's just so many
analogs like why would we?
Why we miss out on theopportunity to bring two of our
(13:13):
dreams to life and one big thing.
So that was the.
That was the beginning of thechallenge, you know.
But it was definitely reallyexciting for the team to jump in
the deep end and You know youmentioned that there's so much
crossover and what's funny aboutthat is we brought this game to
Maybe a dozen publishers and itwas like publisher after
publisher Could not say noquickly enough, you know it was
(13:37):
always just like oh Well, wethink wrestling fans like are
not, they're blue collar, theydon't really want to think, they
don't really want to play astrategy game.
Or we think these are, you know,these licenses are too old.
Like Most people don't evenknow who, like mantra man, are
under the giant R anymore.
Like those guys Oh my gosh,they're in the late 30s, early
(13:58):
40s, 50s like they're not reallyplaying games.
And it was like over and over,just like Everyone a different
opinion of what was wrong aboutit, but everyone was an
agreement that wrestling andJRPGs, like should not, cannot
live together.
And We never lost hope.
But there's a few times that wewere thinking about cutting
(14:19):
scope and we're like maybe thisbecomes like our favorite
experiment, that we just finishand we just pray and We cut the
scope, we cut the content, wecut the areas and and we use
this as like the episode one orsomething you know.
And then We brought it to.
Skybound and we got luckybecause one of the team members
(14:41):
at that time He's longer at thatcompany, Which is a massive
wrestling fan.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
you know and we saw the, we thought we had like the.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
You know, this kind of kind of coming of age story
with our core protagonist, mutraChaman, and we actually have
this kind of the seriesundertone mixed with a lot of
this really silly You know, megacat's writing mixed with
wrestling spectacle.
He kind of jumped in the deepend with us.
I was like all right, we'rejust gonna find a way to get
this done.
And It definitely look a lotlonger than everyone expected
(15:17):
For many reasons.
But I would say that whenyou're making a game as a fan
and you're scoping it as a fan,it's so hard to maintain like a
disciplined anything like youknow, at one point we literally
had to be cut off because Wewere, you know, writing and
putting in more characters andlicenses and locations, because
there's just like There's aninfinite well of stuff here,
(15:38):
because we've lived this for awhole lot right.
It's like yeah, it's like ourfavorite genre and our favorite,
you know, sports entertainmentvehicle And it's like you know
we had so many things in thecutting room floor.
I'm I still wish we could fitin.
Like, like, we wanted to havean area that was like the It all
.
It's kind of the It's gonnasound silly, but like, as an
(16:00):
example, we wanted to have anarea that was dedicated to
Exploring the rich history ofavian culture and wrestling.
Yeah, like Hock and Haven andCoco beware.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, you know we'd have all these, like all these
wrestlers there.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
They're just be like, can you believe it?
this whole time, you know, andit's just like we'll have
something like that.
We just we cut pretty earlybecause we wanted to maintain
like the Like, the seriousnessand then a tone that you know
pays into the autobiographicalStories of these characters and
then also captures for someonewho doesn't know anything about
(16:36):
wrestling You know what a tourterritory is and how that works
and kind of like you know Whatthese wrestlers and characters
go through Dedicate, dedicatethemselves to the sport, because
there's not just silliness inthe game, there's, you know,
there's storylines where, likethe loach adore is Letting his
family down on the road everyday and he's missing his
children growing up and he'shaving to choose between being
(17:00):
this local hero and Letting hisfamily down.
And there's another wrestlerthat we learn when we kind of
work through with it becomes inyour party.
He's, you know, he's a localstar.
That's kind of outgrown thatlocal scene But he doesn't want
to give up in his community tohelp kind of bring him up to
where he is, but he knows thesekind of hit the ceiling there.
So it's, you know, there's a lotof that in the game.
I think just becomes reallyinteresting for someone who's a
(17:25):
Whether or not you're from likea wrestling fandom background,
and then yeah, and it's reallysomething you can relate to from
your your experience doing Youknow different types of fan geek
media.
But there's a lot of elapsedfans out there that are like
casually Into it but they reallyhaven't followed wrestling in
20 years like the last time they, you know, maybe watch it
(17:46):
closely with high school.
Yeah, we've met a lot of thosefans because You know that they
kind of pop out first.
They're like I think this gameis made for me, like I'm into
this, you know, and maybe theydon't want to play finger karate
with their game pad.
They don't want to jump in likea super deep customization.
They want to pick up and play,and I think they're going to be
able to play, pick up and play,and I think RPGs provide enough
(18:08):
of that too.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, yeah, i love that.
I know I know in your talk youtalked about how difficult it
was to find a publisher Rightbecause of the fact that, like
they didn't see that connectionthere, which is funny and
fascinating to me.
But the other thing that I Iloved too is, you know, the fact
that you did highlight that youworked with wrestlers and you
(18:32):
dug into their stories and Andand brought a lot of that aspect
to to the game.
Were there any moments Whereyou had feedback from a wrestler
and you're like I have no ideahow we're gonna incorporate that
into the game?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
What's a that?
Yeah, i do so without namingthe wrestler.
One of my favorite experiencesabout wrestler quest has been
getting input from thesewrestlers that do not and have
not played games right.
Very commonly we talked to themand they would talk about, like
you know, pac-man and You knowthen.
(19:11):
Or they talk about how theirkids play Roblox.
They're like my kids are Roblox.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
That's cool, you know , it's just like that you know.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But I would say that Most of the feedback you would
get would be so 10,000 foot thatwe could find a way to apply it
And they were trusting us as,like, the games fans and the
games experts.
But we had one wrestlerspecifically.
He was, you know, sitting downwith us at dinner.
He actually flew into theoffice and spent like two days
(19:37):
at Pittsburgh.
I think he was going to be atsome other fan event.
It's about an hour or two awayfrom us and thought he would
just come in early and, you know, sit down, see the project,
talk to the team and see whatelse he could do.
And I think he had some other,bigger vision for other projects
on the horizon and he wanted tofind a way to help a lift this
up and then maybe build anotherway to extend his, his current
(20:00):
kind of Enterprising you knowworld.
But anyway, we're we're wayinto this conversation.
He's just throwing outbrainstorm after brainstorming
and trying to persuade us tolicense the holiday in logo
because There's a few specificholiday ends and he thought we
should include in each region.
And I'm like I Understand thehotels are a major piece of
(20:24):
living on the road, but like Ijust don't think it's gonna
translate the fans and he's likeno man, the hotels are key.
He's like hotel parties.
He's like he's like this onespecific holiday Crazy.
You know, we're like 10 minutesinto this thread and I'm sorry
man We got.
We have to put that to bed likewe're not And if we were, like
(20:49):
it wouldn't even play becauseTen plus game there's no.
And there's no drugs.
So we can't.
We can't do this, you know.
And maybe just in there,shaking his head like you, just
don't.
He's like calling on the restor something on speaker phone.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
He's like What was like the whole day.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
So that was just find my favorite example just
complete.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That is hilarious.
When I met with you after,after, after, towards the end of
the event, i should say, andone of the things I mentioned to
you all was the fact that To me, i felt like this was like the
version of Madden, where youguys were incorporating
wrestlers into, into getting thefeedback around Around the
(21:47):
gameplay and just like like, wasthis legit, was this, was this
how this feel like when you'reon the road and what some air
worries were right.
Like same thing with Madden,when you know they brought him
mad and a man's like this is notfootball, what is this?
and they had to like basically,you know, put 12 people on the
field, like, or 11 people on thefield, like he said, like this
is, you have to have the numberof people on the field.
So I really appreciate the factthat you, you know,
(22:10):
incorporated all these wrestlersinto Into big build in this
game, because I think that'sjust so, so amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, you know it's like, Initially we had a wish
list.
That wish list was dashedbecause of how licensing works
and is limited to the WWE, andthen eventually a lot of our
things that were dashed becameundashed because, you know, we
would kind of find an educationon How to make it work and where
(22:38):
and who and who the redstakeholders were.
And You know, one of the reasonsthat wrestler quest is as big
as it is is because we were justfinding over and over and over
new Talent that had a greatstory to tell that fit what we
were looking for, that wereavailable and they all came in
these little batches And theygot the took so long to go
(23:01):
through clearance on.
Each was a whole.
Another story for myautobiography someday, which
also loving copies of but Man,it just It was.
It's been an experience but,what do you do once you realize
that you could Add in junk yourdog?
I want to kill her, like talentand I just loved him growing up
(23:22):
and his His game maker so great,and like dogs and chains and
like a junkered atmosphere andif it's an era We already had
and we're like guess rad in himand you know, and then yeah,
over and over and over.
And you know, one of our, oneof my favorite areas in the game
is Built for the road warriors,because they had this, this Mad
Max vibe, right.
Yeah, Yeah and it's like wecreated this, this area that's
(23:46):
all dedicated to this, thistribe that worships the road
warriors and they steal warpaint from all the other
communities, sacrifice the warpaint for the rib warriors and
they're there's like Worldwrestlers, and they have this,
like you know gas mask in theirface and they're just like super
muscular, like, and you knowit's a lot of fun building these
(24:07):
things up.
We took a little bit of whatthey're already known for and
they're aesthetic and then wejust were able to, because that
affordance base is so broadwhere it would have fun playing
with it and it.
It's funny because,particularly with casual fans,
you'd have casual fans like atthe booths at like Pax East and
they'd be like, can you believethey licensed Johnny stretch And
(24:30):
it's a character we made up,right, you know, but it's like,
there's like enough there,though, people are like doing it
, they don't kind of like reallyknow yeah.
They're like they got onto thegiant macho man, johnny stretch,
and it's like Jake the snakehere.
So was John, this make brandy,this It's.
(24:54):
I wish I could.
I was making this up, oh my god, that's hilarious, that's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
But you did, you did incorporate, like like at Pax
East, you had the fan impact kidand he's in the game, right.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah yeah, so like you had his retro right Yeah
yeah, i would do it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, exactly, but that was interesting.
How different.
This is gonna be a questionthat I didn't have my list But
just spawned in my head rightnow.
How different was it when yougot feedback from somebody, like
when you talk to somebody likeFan impact, kid versus versus
some of the older wrestlers, inregards to, first of all, like
what their story was like andlike their road to becoming a
(25:37):
wrestler, and then also just howthey give feedback in regards
to like this, so how you shouldincorporate this, or here's some
feedback around the game.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
You know, we knew from the very beginning of
rustle quest that we wanted touse Different eras and types of
characters differently.
So we knew that the way wewanted to use like Macho Man Had
to be like on a pedestal, likein a unique way that's ever been
done.
Like the way we use the legendsis you don't play as them, and
(26:08):
we've been And we've been sayingit constantly, to set fans
expectations that the way itworks is like there's um,
they're Value to wrestling as asport and as a form of
entertainment is so profoundthat there's like cities built
in their image, right so likewhen you go to You know that
(26:30):
post-apocalyptic junker at area,like there's large the life
statue of Liberty, statues ofthe road warriors frozen in time
, and there's wrestlers therethat are coming to pay homage,
that are like there, they'relike I don't know what to do
with my gimmick.
Do I go golf, do I go surf?
for, like, please, it's a worldwe're wrestling is life.
(26:50):
It's like, you know, people getup and they take their vitamins
and they pump the iron and youknow it's like It's pretty
interesting.
So like that's how we wantedthe legends to be used and we
knew we we wanted to make surethat the story that every
Wrestler that can really do,which was the coming up the
ranks, earning your stripesstory.
So we knew we wanted to be veryselective but to find Some
(27:13):
people that are still coming upthat we think you're gonna make
it.
So we think you're gonna, youknow, be a great moment and
maybe we can help elevate themin our own limited way.
So we met Fanny Pac kid cow andJust immediately loved him.
Like his dad's amazing, youknow his dad, like has been
helping wrestlers of all levelsfor 20 some years.
(27:36):
He was an independent wrestlerhimself too.
You know, al Snow actually islike the personal wrestling
trainer for Cal Fanny Pac kid,and you know I was a wrestling
Academy and he you know I wasamazing, but it's like You know,
cal really has a fightingchance to make something
impressive and he lives it andhe's great, he's super
entertaining.
So once we found this like 80sstyle Fanny Pac kid, it comes in
(28:02):
this pedigree and is beingmentored by these legends or
like this guy's great, we got toput him in the game.
Yeah, and you know he has aunique perspective too, since he
like, loves video games.
Yeah you know, a lot of thewrestlers like you'd be, you
know, on the phone for an hourtrying to show them how to use
their email and stuff right.
So it's like It's differenttalking to the guys who are like
active wrestling in the 70s,that are definitely later in
(28:26):
their In their world right now,versus Cal, who's, like you know
, streaming on tiktok at Paxiesin the booth right, like it's
like definitely a differentslash, but it's been awesome
because they they like, haveunique ways to contribute.
But something that's been atheme for wrestler quests is
that everyone is a fan ofwrestling first.
So, as a matter, if you'reFanny Pac kid or Jeff Jarrett or
(28:49):
you know one of these, it whilestreamers, influencers, fans
like all of us have this sharedlove and interest and Wrestling,
and that's enough of a unifyinglanguage that it doesn't matter
what your.
Social media preference might beor what genres you play.
Like it's been this Really funmagnet and underdog story to get
(29:11):
told no a million times andthen when, like 20 best in show,
best of best gameplay awards,you know, and it's like man, the
team can't be any more proud.
We hope someone buys it, youknow.
But it's like It's so rewardingwhen you make games and people
love them and in this case,because we're told no so many
times, we had such lowexpectations for it.
(29:32):
It's been such a wonderfulsurprise to have so many people
just rally up about it.
Like I don't.
We literally get a hundred plusmessages a day from strangers
just asking for dates orphysical copies.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
It's only something we're not used to.
A whole lot of games, yeah,yeah, and in a way it's kind of
like Parallel to wrestlerscoming up right in, moving in,
moving up and getting their nameand yeah, exactly right, It's
the same.
It's same kind of story.
I like it.
That's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
It's when you said that, roger, because we would
introduce the concept of indieto these, you know, 50, 60, 7
year old, sometimes wrestlers,and we would say indie, they
would immediately assume it waswrestling.
Yeah like, more like, oh no,like, let me describe like the
first sizes, like there'sdifferent sizes.
You know They would pick outthe buzzwords they could relate
(30:27):
to.
They'd be like Nintendo.
I know Nintendo like I playedduck hunt.
Yes, you know Not to addconfusion, but we do make
cartridge base games.
It was only interesting because,once we realized there was this
shared fandom, we just changedhow we introduced ourselves you
know.
Just, it made it way easier foreveryone to relate Once you
(30:50):
would free frame them.
Is what do you remember whenyou're on your come up?
Do you remember when you weretraveling around doing this,
this and this?
and there was there was an erathere when you were on your come
up where a ton of people weresupporting you and you had the
same skill and keep capabilitylevel as a A ton of
professionals that were outthere, but you just didn't have
that right stage it and it'd belike, yeah, i'm like, well,
(31:11):
that's that's how I see ourcompany right now.
Yeah, they'd be like I send theagreement, we're doing this
right now.
It was true, you know over andover.
Except was like they like rallybehind that.
And then and I can't even tellyou how many times I'd get like
a Late night phone call from awrestler be like, hey, i'm out
at a bar with XYZ wrestler and Iwas just telling them how we're
(31:33):
we're doing this, dude you know, I wouldn't even get into the
details.
And I'm sitting here onChristmas Eve on a you know My
family's in the other room andI'm like I'm trying to hide away
on top of restrooms.
I'm like I gotta go you knowI'm sorry, bro, but like It was
(32:05):
really hard to get in and onceyou earn their trust and do well
by them and And they have likea, an understanding for you're
coming from, it's like, it'slike being part of, like a tribe
, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
One of the things that's Uniquefor well, not unique, but one
of the things that's like staple, i guess for JRPG is is is the
loot and gear.
Can you talk about how loot andgear is used in the in wrestle
quest?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Oh yeah.
So, given that it is a toystory meets wrestling like
universe, we have both thetraditional Character add-ons
and items and we also have, likethe action figure, modification
, crafting, because everythingcan be can be made in this kind
of high fantasy, afford in space.
So you know, one of the thingsthat I think is most interesting
(32:56):
about Russell Quest is that itdoesn't have character creators,
because it's a story driven RPG.
So the way you're customizingyour character are things like a
custom walk-on with walk-oneffects and music and modifiers
and Things like using your partyand your manager and choosing
you know your heel and facebehaviors, and So all those
(33:17):
things actually tie back todifferent types of equipment
items.
Another thing that's been funis the way we use the legends,
because you don't play as thelegends.
Sometimes you can play with thelegends, so in some cases, like
you can we've already spoiledthis in a trailer, but you know,
in some cases, if you finishcertain quests and You earn the
(33:40):
achievement and opportunity tohave under the giant as a
summons, which is a common RPG.
Yeah no ability and trope.
Yeah, you can basically besummoned into the ring, lift the
ring up because he's a humankind, you snap it in half And
then finish off screen and it'slike.
It's like the coolest way tosummon the giant, you know yeah,
(34:01):
right.
And it's either that or you canwear a singlet.
Neither one.
You know One of the ways we use, like the different
customization and differentitems.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
And and also grinding is also.
Grinding for levels is alsovery common with JRPG's.
What is?
how does leveling system workin wrestle quest and how did you
handle the grind element inwrestle quest?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
You know it's funny, i'm a member of quite a few JRPG
groups And I want to use, look,the incorrect language here,
but there's one that I've beencalled JRPG shit posting And
it's the same complaints all thetime.
You know, i wish I didn't haveto grind.
I wish, you know, there's amore quality life features and
(34:47):
it was easier to find my wayaround, and I wish there was
more content and more playablecharacters.
And You know, given that we arefans of that genre, like I
would say that Wrestle Quest ismore of a JRPG than a wrestling
game and it's oozing or sleptwith wrestling because you know,
first and foremost, it's a JRPG, built with all the dressings
(35:07):
and features and some featuresthat you'd want to see in a game
like that.
You know there's just like a,there's just a crazy amount to
unpack and Nobody that is over25 wants to grind and a JRPG
It's not fun, you know so.
So we we make it more leanforward than sit back with the
(35:29):
way the gameplay works.
So, as an example, there aresome mechanics that are Intended
to emulate the feeling ofperforming for a crowd, with the
crowd doors on screen duringbattle And there's a height
meter at the bottom, where thecharacter player is actually
actually rewarded For using avariety in variants and moves,
rather than sitting there andspanning.
You know, burrito slam, burritoslam, burrito slam right, and
(35:54):
That's pretty interesting way tosolve it, because we're
actually On the height meter.
You actually are rewarded withitems, perks and better battles.
Right doing some of the thingsthat are fun about wrestling
like it might be the first yearof PG where people taunt all the
time because it's funny andit's part of wrestling, right,
like part of that, wrestlingpieces like He's like kicking
(36:15):
him back and being like no, no,no, no, no.
You know, and it's like You know, we need to make sure that was
represented and that was reallyin the in the game.
So, and the height meter hassome levels of risk reward, like
if you go to pin Somebody veryearly and they're not ready to
be pinned and they kick outtheir recovery hit points.
But if you do pin them earlyand you get an upset like that,
(36:38):
like the car may not be superexcited, you get crazy perks for
it And it's like a lot oflayers.
You know what else quest likethat, or the pin itself, like
the pin, it all is a very basicrhythm mechanic And you can turn
it off as an option from themenu for accessibility sake.
But you know, the pin mechanicis another example of a lean
(36:58):
forward like.
The pin mechanic has adifficulty to it where, if you
missed me, times in a row, itdoes become easier.
Like the marker and the UI,they come slower and bigger and
These are the line up.
But it's like you.
You were rewarded if you'reable to hit that high skill,
rhythm, moment, time andcorrectly, and These are small
things but they keep you engagedand playing and thinking, and
(37:20):
And it never makes you feel likeyou're exhausted in a battle.
Yeah you know, for that mattertoo, you don't have to fight
every single person on a path.
Like you go walk around them,like you don't have to do it
just to do it's sake.
And You know, the only gamethat's allowed to do that to me
is Gem 1, pokemon.
Otherwise I just don't.
Who wants to fight every singlebeekeeper, every?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
single point.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
No way, not 11 anymore, you know yeah, I want
to play that beekeeper, all Iwant to do is move on, let me
die.
I want to have control over myRPG destiny.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, i did go out and find everyone
because I love the little bitthat I got to play, right, i did
love because it's fun.
It that's the.
That's the part that I do loveabout it too.
It's like the wrestling is funin this game and And and and.
There's something about how youguys are able to capture the
excitement of wrestling in inyour matches too.
(38:19):
But make it over the top.
I mean wrestling's over the top, let's face it.
But I mean like make it archieRPG.
You know the g RPG elements too, like I just I don't know.
I loved that about the game andit's so, so vibrant and so
colorful and and the fact thatyou stuck with You know the this
retro feel, but it doesn't feellike you know it's.
The artwork is so amazing.
(38:40):
It doesn't feel retro, but itis retro and you're like wow,
like it.
Just everything pops in thegame too.
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, you know, i wish I could tell you how many
hours of how much.
There's probably 40 people forfour years full-time.
You know, it's just been crazy,and it's like I'm saying that
because when we first started itwe're like oh, how do we make
these buildings feel, lookunique, how we make the
characters look?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
unique.
How do?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
we get more expression?
How do we?
and that's what makes games andindie games but any type good
is like the nurturing and theattention and and it's like I
can never get those days andhours back.
But But the number of cats thathave spent time just staring at
a scene, I mean like we need toadd a water treatment with some
(39:26):
biceps or I can't get asleeptonight, you know.
And then next thing, you know,there's, like you know, I go to
the snow area and there's theselike jack snowmen and I'm like
this Hey.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Why would?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
there never a wcw.
Antarctica night There's nomuch.
I'm explored territory there.
You know, yeah, why are thereno snowmen based wrestling
gimmicks?
That is a good.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
That is a good question because, like, we've
had plenty of games like clayfighter, right, where they had
snowmen characters.
But you're right, wrestlers,that's not.
That's not a thing, that'sfunny missed opportunity, man,
but don't worry, we're bringinga lot of that in wrestling quest
.
Nice, um, so I alluded to thisearlier.
I love the fact that At PAXEast you set up a wrestling ring
(40:14):
and you add wrestling matches.
Uh, you also let people walkinto the ring and got their
picture taken with the what, thewhat the belt, um, and I will
say I think I mean I knowskybound had other games there
and I'm not trying to Sayanything like that they didn't
attract a lot of people, but Ithink you're wrestling attracted
a lot of people to Uh, to thatarea.
(40:35):
Um, whose idea was that to uh,to bring in wrestling into into
PAX East?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
you know, we uh, without the volging, like the
part that I think would bothersome of my friends We, we first
started wrestling.
We put together like our visiondocument of what we went out of
the game And I remember theskybound team kind of laughing
and embracing some of it.
And then you know, basicallysaying, well, there's no way
we're doing these things, likewe're not gonna bring a
(41:02):
wrestling ring to PAX, like Idon't even know how to ensure
them, like my refuse to get onthis path.
Like You know, you guys areover your skis, yada, yada, yada
.
And then I said, well, howabout if we get above a certain
wishlist threshold?
How about you reward us withthe wrestling ring?
and they're like, okay, if youget over.
(41:23):
It was like some preposterousnumber of wishlist, do you know?
if you get a thousand wishlists in this time, then Then
okay, then we'll do it.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
I was like, all right , cool I'm actually every single
friend.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Coworker Podcast interview media person.
I'm like hey can you, can youput a link in?
this is wishlist.
And on steam I was like that Ineed my math.
I'm like don't tell anybody,but If we can hit this number,
you know we're gonna.
We're gonna promise a wrestlingring and I would be.
You see, like they're head ofmarketing on the emails and you
Text my phone, he'd be like stopwhatever you're doing.
(41:57):
It's not good.
You can't trust these people.
They're gonna talk about it.
They're gonna pay us in the badlight of like no man, like
they're all wrestling fans, likethey're gonna rise up.
You know he's like yourliability.
You have to stop, you know.
And then I remember I remember,like looking at the, i was like
looking at our wish list, lookslike six months for paths.
(42:18):
I was like we're gonna make it.
You know.
I remember I remember messagingthe like the read pop people
and it's like what would it takefor insurance?
Because Boston's like unioncity.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You know, I'm like what would it?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
take on the insurance and you can say trust to get a
wrestling ring.
And they're like You know, andI remember I remember going for
little layers and all the stepsand finding like the right
people's safety, motor insurancepackages and finally We hit the
wish list threshold and I puttogether my you know, my Pino,
my budget, all my, my talentroster and We'd hand selected
the talent.
(42:50):
There too.
We'd, like you know, three ofthe talent that were there were
actually like top 10 unsignedindependent wrestlers in the US,
like like JT Dunn's amazing,you know.
I remember.
I remember, like the some someof the team that are calling me
and being like I was.
So we're doing this thing, youknow, and if they get hurt it's
your fault and Your problem isyour fault and we're gonna brand
(43:13):
it all wrestling class.
It's not gonna be brainless,guy bound and it's your
liability.
And you know, and I was likecool, let's do it.
You know and yeah.
I remember like we all get itset up.
I remember the day before packsopened I was like sitting there
with the team.
It was like Flynn and Zach Andwe're like kind of looking
around.
I was talking to pat the catand I was like, all right, like
you guys, uh, can you guysbelieve we got the wrestling
(43:35):
ring?
and they're like no, you know,like Like, what do we even do
with this?
I was like we're gonna wrestle,you know, and uh, and it went
off of that hitch, you knowthere was no, no one got hurt.
Fans went crazy.
We definitely shut down packs afew times.
You know like it was like um Isome great photos Where we're
taking from the skywalk, whetherit, you know, 10 people deep,
you could not walk on the aisleuh and it was just uh, wrestling
(44:00):
fans and gaming fans perplexed,and then just like captured by
all the fun and you know, it'slike a return from covid too,
right, it's like yeah the eventsa bit a little dry and On the
last event, after it was overthe last match, we did three
cards.
After the last one was over, iremember um, one of the sky
mountain members came over.
It's like I can't believe thatyou guys pulled this off And
(44:22):
nobody got hurt and everythingsaved.
He's like I just hope we don'tget some hate mail later and and
it was uh, it was like justcrazy positive, like I can't
tell you how many.
We had, people that we hadn'teven spoken to in like four
years, that were just textingand calling and emailing us,
being like Are you guyswrestling people?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
You know, that's actually like the majority of
the story of how the ringhappened was we just that was on
our wish list and We just madea deal that if we got far enough
, that we work it out.
And we did and we, you know Itwas great.
The fans like really did lovethat, by the way, and I yeah.
I hope we can do it again.
Got an event, but I guess Iguess it depends on the game
(45:05):
cell.
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I think I think I'll do well.
I, i had so much fun.
That was my highlight of ofpacks east was uh.
So I went to see your um, yourdiscussion on uh, ressifying, uh
, i mean, yeah, g rpgs andwrestling right like the, the
combination too.
And you mentioned like we had awrestling match on Friday night
and I was like wait what?
(45:28):
and uh, and then I found out,yeah, noon on Saturday you're
gonna have more.
And I was like 10 30 standingin front.
I'm like I have a lunch breakthat I could sit here, stand
right in front.
And I stood right in front and,uh, it was so awesome, it was
such a, it was so much fun.
Uh, it was just a blast and thewrestlers were fantastic.
(45:48):
It was so good.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah, i'm gonna be like the man.
I'm so glad you were able tocheck it out.
You know, i uh, i really hopewe can do something else about
your later this year, after thegame launches, we have two
events We've been flirting withfor a while about this, you know
, and it's a.
it's like a wrestling fansdream, right like healthy
stories, work with these legendsand then like set up your own
wrestling cards, like Wow.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, man, and just the, the heels were so much fun
too, like in that you guys saidit was so much fun, like they
really played the crowd and Yeah, and you know, like I said
before recording, it was like mykid dream come true, where I
get to sit in front of the Wellas an adult too, right, like of
(46:38):
course I want to go wrestlingmatches and sit in front, but
like I was right in front and Igot to interact with the
wrestlers, it was, it was ablast, it was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, I'm so glad man .
It's like it's probably mynumber one and And top three
memories of being with the teamand having them.
Like it was just so greatwatching them.
I'm so happy.
Yeah so happy.
Several of the publishers thatsaid like vehemently no to us
were there.
They were just like.
There was a time where I waslike sending them custom
(47:07):
wrestling belts to their officeto sign the game.
You know, i just know they werejust like, oh god, these guys
again.
And then it was great being aPaxies with our new wrestling
belts in our ring, shutting downpacks and having some of those
publishers be like, hey, james,yeah, exactly Man.
(47:29):
You know, like someone else,someone else launched a.
You probably saw theannouncement for wrestle story,
someone else's RPG.
I think that's like aflattering.
You know AW just announced afigure fighters which is like a
Wrestling action figure toy basegame and I was like to dress
dresses, making all sorts ofthings happen.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
When, when does?
when does this game come out?
then We're taking down dudeYeah wow And what work and all
people play this game.
I know like I think, switchright and yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
PS4, ps5, xbox one, xbox X, nintendo switch.
Of course, on steam, please gowishlist it now We could do
another ring.
You know it's coming all overthe place.
There's a couple otherunannounced Distribution
channels that we're gonna betelling the world about shortly,
but it's gonna be easy to findRussell quest.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Nice one last question I have for you, and
then I'll let you go.
What's one thing that youlearned about yourself in the
process of making this game?
Speaker 2 (48:36):
It's a good question, i guess I uh, i learned that I
Will continue forward Wellbeyond any reason to my
detriment, and I need to besurrounded by people who are
willing to tell me no, that'sbeen a real theme, for sure nice
.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Well, james, there's a real pleasure meeting you.
I mean, i met you at PAX, Butit's a real pleasure again sit
and talk to you about Russellquest.
I cannot wait for this game tocome out, and August 8th can't
come soon.
Oh, eighth or six?
I'm sorry, did you say six oreight?
Yeah, august 8th, august 8th,okay, i cannot wait for that
date to come.
Thank you so much for takingtime out your schedule and
(49:17):
meeting with me.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yeah, do me too.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
That's great, all right, thanks.
Yeah, you too.
Hi, I'm Celia Shilling from Yacht Club Games.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey, this is James from Mega Cat Studios.
Hey, this is Matt AKStormageddon from Reignite
Screensnark and the Fun andGames podcast.
This is Stephanie from the BossRush podcast and the Boss Rush
Network.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hey, this is Mark and Keon from Bonta Off-Ald.
Hey, this is Sebastian withtheproteonerreportcom and the
Single Player Experience podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey, this is Todd Mitchell from Code.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Right Play.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Salutations.
This is Mike Carroll fromStroll Art.
Hey, this is Patrick from theBacklog Odyssey.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hey, this is Rune from RuneCodes.
Hi, this is Andrew from SpaladaBirds.
Hi everyone, Jill Grote herefrom the Indie Informer.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hey, this is Brimstone and you're listening
to Roger Reichardt on theGamerheads podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And welcome to another episode of the
Gamerheads podcast.
My name is Roger Along with me.
this week I have a very specialguest.
I have James Degen from MegaCat Studios, the creators behind
the game WrestleQuest, and I'msuper excited to talk about that
game because I got to play someof it at PAX.
(01:13):
I didn't get to play as much asI wanted to.
I probably could have spent thewhole day at PAX playing.
PAX is playing this game, butI'm really happy to have James
on the show with us.
And James, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'm good.
Thanks for having us.
It was hard for me to keep myshirt on, knowing we were
talking about wrestling again.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
You could pull Hulk Hogan there and rip it off for
it right Sometimes he's soexcited and so sweaty he's
sharing WrestleQuest facts.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I said to him at home there's no HR issues.
How do I say no?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, welcome to the show.
I'm so glad that we were ableto connect.
Before we get into the gameWrestleQuest, i want to ask you
a couple of questions aboutyourself First of all tell us
about yourself.
How did you get into gaming andhow did you get into the whole
creating games?
It's a good question.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I wish I had a more romantic version of the story.
But we started making games forfun with a group of us because
we had just a shared passion forretro gaming.
As collectors.
We made a couple of very badgames and then we made a couple
of games that were also bad butgood enough for other indies to
support it.
(02:29):
We were like man, this was somuch fun.
I wonder if we could do that ona commercial level.
Then fast forward eight yearslater took a while.
We just continued to persevere,i guess, and just kind of build
a path.
We're located here inPittsburgh.
We're one of only two gamingcompanies in the area.
(02:54):
Like most gaming companies onthe West Coast, it's not exactly
easy or natural to walk into anetworking event or a career
place and just find all sorts offolks who work in gaming.
Because we live in the internetworld, we can kind of message
(03:15):
anybody.
So I sort of eventually justkind of rubbing all those with
all sorts of folks who areparticipating in game jams and
making games for fun, which isalso very different than
commercial It is.
Slowly but surely we shippedaway at all the things we needed
to do to kind of budget andprepare for a wrestler quest,
which wrestler quest wasactually one of the first games
(03:38):
we ever wanted to make.
As Megaket, we just have such areverence for RPGs and what
goes into the design and theprogression and the level of
detail and the hours and monthsand years that go into it.
We're like man.
It's going to cost a lot ofmoney to do this, so we just
kept shipping away at it, but wegot pretty lucky that we found
(04:03):
a publisher around halfwaythrough.
I was willing to share thevision and we met all sorts of
wrestlers along the way thatwe're willing to jump in and
participate.
So it's really been a journey.
I'm excited that we're nearlaunch now.
It's been a long time coming.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, i love one of your promo videos.
I think was Jeff Jarrett andyou had a guitar sound and you
said, jeff, is this the sound ofguitar hitting over somebody's
head?
And he takes the guitar andhits it over somebody's head.
That's the sound we're lookingfor.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's one of my favorites.
Yeah, it's funny We have boththat broken guitar hanging in
the purse that was with itsoffice And then we have like a
2B broken second guitar waitingfor the right moment, kind of
like a pop to champagne.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I can't wait, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
So, yeah, tell us more aboutWrestleQuest.
I mean, from what I know, imean the bit that I played.
I know it's a JRPG mixed withwrestling, so can you tell a
little bit about the storybehind it and what's it about?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah.
So WrestleQuest is the world'sfirst pro wrestling JRPG
turn-based combat and all thetrimmings and game sensibilities
you'd want to see in a JRPG Oneof the goals we had at the
onset of creating WrestleQuest.
We've set a lot of goals butI'd say like, the three pillars
(05:36):
are number one.
Whether you're a wrestling fanor a JRPG fan, they wanted you
to feel satisfied playing thegame.
We didn't want it to feel likea JRPG with wrestlers snapped in
or a wrestling game thatdoesn't satisfy like a JRPG
player.
So we've put a massive amountof time.
We've actually been givingpanels now the last year and a
(05:59):
half on the restification of theJRPG and how we've tuned these
systems to make it veryauthentically wrestling and
authentically JRPG.
So that was the number onechallenge and goal.
Second one was we wanted toestablish a visual identity for
the game that was still retroand nostalgic and pixel art, but
(06:20):
paid into the homage and levelof detail of these legendary
wrestlers and likenesses andalso didn't look like the 40th
Fire Pro Wrestling game.
So we stumbled into this andthrew a lot of discussions with
friends and fans is that for alot of us our first memories of
(06:41):
wrestling were actually the toysand action figures.
So we realized that we couldalso solve that visual identity
problem and create really fundesign affordance space if
everyone had articulated jointsand moved like an action figure.
And it solves a lot of thingslike I could snap your arm off
and no blood comes out, andthat's cool.
(07:02):
We can kind of dance aroundthings like performance
enhancing drugs.
Like an action figure can havesuper glue as an analog and yeah
, right back on, and it's yeah,keeps him in the run.
So that was like a keybreakthrough for us too.
And then the last one was weset out specifically to work
(07:25):
with.
I'd say there's like fivewrestler licenses and estates we
just really always wanted towork with.
Macho Man was number one for us, road Warriors, after the giant
Jake the snake and then JeffJarrett, which are some people
laugh at.
But when people ask me myfavorite wrestler is my top
(07:45):
three, i say it's Jeff Jarrettthree times.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Wow, it's like wow.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm just like a huge fan of, and arguably Jeff has
done more for wrestling than anyother single wrestler.
At this point, yeah, thinkabout not just the like teenage
and and think like that's whatI've found in this kind of
brothers and arms world ofwrestling and locker rooms is
that Jeff is highly respectedand beloved by the actual
(08:09):
wrestlers themselves.
Would you just don't realize orappreciate when you're a fan
just watching the show, but it'slike everyone that I've ever
met has been well over 100wrestlers at this point.
They have like a true like lovefor Jeff and Jeff he does good
by them.
You know like he's a he'sdefinitely an exception and a
(08:31):
roleful, a world full of likechaos and carnies and
personalities.
You know so.
But you know we were able toaccomplish all of those things
and through hell and high waterand sweat, baby oil,
perseverance, all those things.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah and we'll get into that a little bit later
about the fact that you did havea wrestling ring set up at at
max, which was pretty awesome,and I did.
I did get to see your panel tooon the yeah yeah, i loved it
yeah, it was so good and it was,and I will say, i mean, this is
(09:10):
not just a flow your own boat,but I thought actually that was
one of the better presentationsbecause, like you had a definite
here's the agenda, here's likethe things that you went through
, like it was a swell, you'rewell done so, so nice job, um so
yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
By the way, roger, we've been in a lot of panels
now for for a few years and yeah.
I would say that the wrestlingfan is uniquely engaged and like
uh, excited.
It's like, uh, we did pack thatroom the last two times we gave
it.
But Like I've never had panelswhere we've had people follow up
with questions and responsesand the thank you notes, it's
(09:48):
been awesome.
I want to say it's wrestlingfans.
But it's like, it's um, it'sdefinitely a better reception
than we ever could have dreamedof and I just, i just love it.
It's like I feel like my peopleare all coming to see it, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, well, and it's funny because, like I've
mentioned this before, there isa fun like mix between video
game Enthusiast and wrestlingenthusiasts, right, like there's
like that crossover betweenboth of them and And you can see
it in the games, right, not,you know like, look at all the
wrestling games have been madeSince we were kids.
You know like I rememberplaying tag team wrestling like
(10:23):
the on the NES, right, whichwasn't that great but it was
okay, right, and.
And growing up with like muscle, wrestling, muscle men and the
wrestling game.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Wars are in the game boys, one of the worst games
ever played.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's a thing right like we grew up playing these
bad wrestling games And we cameup with our own stories behind
it and everything is a lot ofthese characters because, like
you, had to.
But one of the one of thethings that I really love about
this is the fact that this is,like you said, the first JRPG
game.
That's like mixes both JRPG andwrestling together.
(10:57):
So what inspired that?
like how, how did you come tothat, to that Realization like
hey, this is something we wantto do.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
You know, we have always wanted to make a
wrestling game And we alwayswanted to make an RPG and we are
mapping out, kind of thepillars of each.
So you know, something thatI've loved about the experience
is that my best friends and oneof the partners of mega cat,
zach, you know, did not followwrestling growing up.
(11:28):
Oh, and we were gonna sit inthere at the office trying to
figure out a way to make thewrestling game come to life And
I remember listing out all thepillars of what we loved about
wrestling And one of the ways wewere able to persuade him into
considering it.
Where's like we know, is thatit's really about these
spectacle, over-the-topcharacter personalities.
(11:48):
Like it's really like, like thestories they could tell and the
classes that they are like.
I think there's enough Here foranalogs.
You should at least considerLike wrestlers as character
classes and yeah you know, watchsome promos, don't worry about
the matches, don't worry aboutthe rest.
So watch them like late 80s,early 90s promos and just tell
me You don't feel youradrenaline pumping.
(12:10):
I remember he came back out ofhis uh, his like office, maybe
like two or three hours later,and he was just like this is
crazy.
He's like how does anyone getinto this, you know?
and then like a week later andhe was like you know, we have to
make this game, like we have todo this.
(12:31):
He's like I've been watchingpromos from option and plus
three hours.
He's like I don't understandwhy no one's made like a
story-driven game.
I've just like yeah like I know,dude, i knew you come around,
but you know we wanted to makethem both separately.
And then we just realized thatthe you know RPGs are great
(12:52):
Whenever they have excellentstories and progression and
classes and, as you're late at,all the things that we love
about RPGs.
We looked at how we could solvethat with wrestling and you
know if we're forcing the issueor if it felt like it could be
made natural, and we we justrealized there's just so many
analogs like why would we?
Why we miss out on theopportunity to bring two of our
(13:13):
dreams to life and one big thing.
So that was the.
That was the beginning of thechallenge, you know.
But it was definitely reallyexciting for the team to jump in
the deep end and You know youmentioned that there's so much
crossover and what's funny aboutthat is we brought this game to
Maybe a dozen publishers and itwas like publisher after
publisher Could not say noquickly enough, you know it was
(13:37):
always just like oh Well, wethink wrestling fans like are
not, they're blue collar, theydon't really want to think, they
don't really want to play astrategy game.
Or we think these are, you know,these licenses are too old.
Like Most people don't evenknow who, like mantra man, are
under the giant R anymore.
Like those guys Oh my gosh,they're in the late 30s, early
(13:58):
40s, 50s like they're not reallyplaying games.
And it was like over and over,just like Everyone a different
opinion of what was wrong aboutit, but everyone was an
agreement that wrestling andJRPGs, like should not, cannot
live together.
And We never lost hope.
But there's a few times that wewere thinking about cutting
(14:19):
scope and we're like maybe thisbecomes like our favorite
experiment, that we just finishand we just pray and We cut the
scope, we cut the content, wecut the areas and and we use
this as like the episode one orsomething you know.
And then We brought it to.
Skybound and we got luckybecause one of the team members
(14:41):
at that time He's longer at thatcompany, Which is a massive
wrestling fan.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
you know and we saw the, we thought we had like the.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
You know, this kind of kind of coming of age story
with our core protagonist, mutraChaman, and we actually have
this kind of the seriesundertone mixed with a lot of
this really silly You know, megacat's writing mixed with
wrestling spectacle.
He kind of jumped in the deepend with us.
I was like all right, we'rejust gonna find a way to get
this done.
And It definitely look a lotlonger than everyone expected
(15:17):
For many reasons.
But I would say that whenyou're making a game as a fan
and you're scoping it as a fan,it's so hard to maintain like a
disciplined anything like youknow, at one point we literally
had to be cut off because Wewere, you know, writing and
putting in more characters andlicenses and locations, because
there's just like There's aninfinite well of stuff here,
(15:38):
because we've lived this for awhole lot right.
It's like yeah, it's like ourfavorite genre and our favorite,
you know, sports entertainmentvehicle And it's like you know
we had so many things in thecutting room floor.
I'm I still wish we could fitin.
Like, like, we wanted to havean area that was like the It all
.
It's kind of the It's gonnasound silly, but like, as an
(16:00):
example, we wanted to have anarea that was dedicated to
Exploring the rich history ofavian culture and wrestling.
Yeah, like Hock and Haven andCoco beware.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, you know we'd have all these, like all these
wrestlers there.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
They're just be like, can you believe it?
this whole time, you know, andit's just like we'll have
something like that.
We just we cut pretty earlybecause we wanted to maintain
like the Like, the seriousnessand then a tone that you know
pays into the autobiographicalStories of these characters and
then also captures for someonewho doesn't know anything about
(16:36):
wrestling You know what a tourterritory is and how that works
and kind of like you know Whatthese wrestlers and characters
go through Dedicate, dedicatethemselves to the sport, because
there's not just silliness inthe game, there's, you know,
there's storylines where, likethe loach adore is Letting his
family down on the road everyday and he's missing his
children growing up and he'shaving to choose between being
(17:00):
this local hero and Letting hisfamily down.
And there's another wrestlerthat we learn when we kind of
work through with it becomes inyour party.
He's, you know, he's a localstar.
That's kind of outgrown thatlocal scene But he doesn't want
to give up in his community tohelp kind of bring him up to
where he is, but he knows thesekind of hit the ceiling there.
So it's, you know, there's a lotof that in the game.
I think just becomes reallyinteresting for someone who's a
(17:25):
Whether or not you're from likea wrestling fandom background,
and then yeah, and it's reallysomething you can relate to from
your your experience doing Youknow different types of fan geek
media.
But there's a lot of elapsedfans out there that are like
casually Into it but they reallyhaven't followed wrestling in
20 years like the last time they, you know, maybe watch it
(17:46):
closely with high school.
Yeah, we've met a lot of thosefans because You know that they
kind of pop out first.
They're like I think this gameis made for me, like I'm into
this, you know, and maybe theydon't want to play finger karate
with their game pad.
They don't want to jump in likea super deep customization.
They want to pick up and play,and I think they're going to be
able to play, pick up and play,and I think RPGs provide enough
(18:08):
of that too.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, yeah, i love that.
I know I know in your talk youtalked about how difficult it
was to find a publisher Rightbecause of the fact that, like
they didn't see that connectionthere, which is funny and
fascinating to me.
But the other thing that I Iloved too is, you know, the fact
that you did highlight that youworked with wrestlers and you
(18:32):
dug into their stories and Andand brought a lot of that aspect
to to the game.
Were there any moments Whereyou had feedback from a wrestler
and you're like I have no ideahow we're gonna incorporate that
into the game?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
What's a that?
Yeah, i do so without namingthe wrestler.
One of my favorite experiencesabout wrestler quest has been
getting input from thesewrestlers that do not and have
not played games right.
Very commonly we talked to themand they would talk about, like
you know, pac-man and You knowthen.
(19:11):
Or they talk about how theirkids play Roblox.
They're like my kids are Roblox.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
That's cool, you know , it's just like that you know.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But I would say that Most of the feedback you would
get would be so 10,000 foot thatwe could find a way to apply it
And they were trusting us as,like, the games fans and the
games experts.
But we had one wrestlerspecifically.
He was, you know, sitting downwith us at dinner.
He actually flew into theoffice and spent like two days
(19:37):
at Pittsburgh.
I think he was going to be atsome other fan event.
It's about an hour or two awayfrom us and thought he would
just come in early and, you know, sit down, see the project,
talk to the team and see whatelse he could do.
And I think he had some other,bigger vision for other projects
on the horizon and he wanted tofind a way to help a lift this
up and then maybe build anotherway to extend his, his current
(20:00):
kind of Enterprising you knowworld.
But anyway, we're we're wayinto this conversation.
He's just throwing outbrainstorm after brainstorming
and trying to persuade us tolicense the holiday in logo
because There's a few specificholiday ends and he thought we
should include in each region.
And I'm like I Understand thehotels are a major piece of
(20:24):
living on the road, but like Ijust don't think it's gonna
translate the fans and he's likeno man, the hotels are key.
He's like hotel parties.
He's like he's like this onespecific holiday Crazy.
You know, we're like 10 minutesinto this thread and I'm sorry
man We got.
We have to put that to bed likewe're not And if we were, like
(20:49):
it wouldn't even play becauseTen plus game there's no.
And there's no drugs.
So we can't.
We can't do this, you know.
And maybe just in there,shaking his head like you, just
don't.
He's like calling on the restor something on speaker phone.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
He's like What was like the whole day.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
So that was just find my favorite example just
complete.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That is hilarious.
When I met with you after,after, after, towards the end of
the event, i should say, andone of the things I mentioned to
you all was the fact that To me, i felt like this was like the
version of Madden, where youguys were incorporating
wrestlers into, into getting thefeedback around Around the
(21:47):
gameplay and just like like, wasthis legit, was this, was this
how this feel like when you'reon the road and what some air
worries were right.
Like same thing with Madden,when you know they brought him
mad and a man's like this is notfootball, what is this?
and they had to like basically,you know, put 12 people on the
field, like, or 11 people on thefield, like he said, like this
is, you have to have the numberof people on the field.
So I really appreciate the factthat you, you know,
(22:10):
incorporated all these wrestlersinto Into big build in this
game, because I think that'sjust so, so amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, you know it's like, Initially we had a wish
list.
That wish list was dashedbecause of how licensing works
and is limited to the WWE, andthen eventually a lot of our
things that were dashed becameundashed because, you know, we
would kind of find an educationon How to make it work and where
(22:38):
and who and who the redstakeholders were.
And You know, one of the reasonsthat wrestler quest is as big
as it is is because we were justfinding over and over and over
new Talent that had a greatstory to tell that fit what we
were looking for, that wereavailable and they all came in
these little batches And theygot the took so long to go
(23:01):
through clearance on.
Each was a whole.
Another story for myautobiography someday, which
also loving copies of but Man,it just It was.
It's been an experience but,what do you do once you realize
that you could Add in junk yourdog?
I want to kill her, like talentand I just loved him growing up
(23:22):
and his His game maker so great,and like dogs and chains and
like a junkered atmosphere andif it's an era We already had
and we're like guess rad in himand you know, and then yeah,
over and over and over.
And you know, one of our, oneof my favorite areas in the game
is Built for the road warriors,because they had this, this Mad
Max vibe, right.
Yeah, Yeah and it's like wecreated this, this area that's
(23:46):
all dedicated to this, thistribe that worships the road
warriors and they steal warpaint from all the other
communities, sacrifice the warpaint for the rib warriors and
they're there's like Worldwrestlers, and they have this,
like you know gas mask in theirface and they're just like super
muscular, like, and you knowit's a lot of fun building these
(24:07):
things up.
We took a little bit of whatthey're already known for and
they're aesthetic and then wejust were able to, because that
affordance base is so broadwhere it would have fun playing
with it and it.
It's funny because,particularly with casual fans,
you'd have casual fans like atthe booths at like Pax East and
they'd be like, can you believethey licensed Johnny stretch And
(24:30):
it's a character we made up,right, you know, but it's like,
there's like enough there,though, people are like doing it
, they don't kind of like reallyknow yeah.
They're like they got onto thegiant macho man, johnny stretch,
and it's like Jake the snakehere.
So was John, this make brandy,this It's.
(24:54):
I wish I could.
I was making this up, oh my god, that's hilarious, that's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
But you did, you did incorporate, like like at Pax
East, you had the fan impact kidand he's in the game, right.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah yeah, so like you had his retro right Yeah
yeah, i would do it.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, exactly, but that was interesting.
How different.
This is gonna be a questionthat I didn't have my list But
just spawned in my head rightnow.
How different was it when yougot feedback from somebody, like
when you talk to somebody likeFan impact, kid versus versus
some of the older wrestlers, inregards to, first of all, like
what their story was like andlike their road to becoming a
(25:37):
wrestler, and then also just howthey give feedback in regards
to like this, so how you shouldincorporate this, or here's some
feedback around the game.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
You know, we knew from the very beginning of
rustle quest that we wanted touse Different eras and types of
characters differently.
So we knew that the way wewanted to use like Macho Man Had
to be like on a pedestal, likein a unique way that's ever been
done.
Like the way we use the legendsis you don't play as them, and
(26:08):
we've been And we've been sayingit constantly, to set fans
expectations that the way itworks is like there's um,
they're Value to wrestling as asport and as a form of
entertainment is so profoundthat there's like cities built
in their image, right so likewhen you go to You know that
(26:30):
post-apocalyptic junker at area,like there's large the life
statue of Liberty, statues ofthe road warriors frozen in time
, and there's wrestlers therethat are coming to pay homage,
that are like there, they'relike I don't know what to do
with my gimmick.
Do I go golf, do I go surf?
for, like, please, it's a worldwe're wrestling is life.
(26:50):
It's like, you know, people getup and they take their vitamins
and they pump the iron and youknow it's like It's pretty
interesting.
So like that's how we wantedthe legends to be used and we
knew we we wanted to make surethat the story that every
Wrestler that can really do,which was the coming up the
ranks, earning your stripesstory.
So we knew we wanted to be veryselective but to find Some
(27:13):
people that are still coming upthat we think you're gonna make
it.
So we think you're gonna, youknow, be a great moment and
maybe we can help elevate themin our own limited way.
So we met Fanny Pac kid cow andJust immediately loved him.
Like his dad's amazing, youknow his dad, like has been
helping wrestlers of all levelsfor 20 some years.
(27:36):
He was an independent wrestlerhimself too.
You know, al Snow actually islike the personal wrestling
trainer for Cal Fanny Pac kid,and you know I was a wrestling
Academy and he you know I wasamazing, but it's like You know,
cal really has a fightingchance to make something
impressive and he lives it andhe's great, he's super
entertaining.
So once we found this like 80sstyle Fanny Pac kid, it comes in
(28:02):
this pedigree and is beingmentored by these legends or
like this guy's great, we got toput him in the game.
Yeah, and you know he has aunique perspective too, since he
like, loves video games.
Yeah you know, a lot of thewrestlers like you'd be, you
know, on the phone for an hourtrying to show them how to use
their email and stuff right.
So it's like It's differenttalking to the guys who are like
active wrestling in the 70s,that are definitely later in
(28:26):
their In their world right now,versus Cal, who's, like you know
, streaming on tiktok at Paxiesin the booth right, like it's
like definitely a differentslash, but it's been awesome
because they they like, haveunique ways to contribute.
But something that's been atheme for wrestler quests is
that everyone is a fan ofwrestling first.
So, as a matter, if you'reFanny Pac kid or Jeff Jarrett or
(28:49):
you know one of these, it whilestreamers, influencers, fans
like all of us have this sharedlove and interest and Wrestling,
and that's enough of a unifyinglanguage that it doesn't matter
what your.
Social media preference might beor what genres you play.
Like it's been this Really funmagnet and underdog story to get
(29:11):
told no a million times andthen when, like 20 best in show,
best of best gameplay awards,you know, and it's like man, the
team can't be any more proud.
We hope someone buys it, youknow.
But it's like It's so rewardingwhen you make games and people
love them and in this case,because we're told no so many
times, we had such lowexpectations for it.
(29:32):
It's been such a wonderfulsurprise to have so many people
just rally up about it.
Like I don't.
We literally get a hundred plusmessages a day from strangers
just asking for dates orphysical copies.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
It's only something we're not used to.
A whole lot of games, yeah,yeah, and in a way it's kind of
like Parallel to wrestlerscoming up right in, moving in,
moving up and getting their nameand yeah, exactly right, It's
the same.
It's same kind of story.
I like it.
That's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
It's when you said that, roger, because we would
introduce the concept of indieto these, you know, 50, 60, 7
year old, sometimes wrestlers,and we would say indie, they
would immediately assume it waswrestling.
Yeah like, more like, oh no,like, let me describe like the
first sizes, like there'sdifferent sizes.
You know They would pick outthe buzzwords they could relate
(30:27):
to.
They'd be like Nintendo.
I know Nintendo like I playedduck hunt.
Yes, you know Not to addconfusion, but we do make
cartridge base games.
It was only interesting because,once we realized there was this
shared fandom, we just changedhow we introduced ourselves you
know.
Just, it made it way easier foreveryone to relate Once you
(30:50):
would free frame them.
Is what do you remember whenyou're on your come up?
Do you remember when you weretraveling around doing this,
this and this?
and there was there was an erathere when you were on your come
up where a ton of people weresupporting you and you had the
same skill and keep capabilitylevel as a A ton of
professionals that were outthere, but you just didn't have
that right stage it and it'd belike, yeah, i'm like, well,
(31:11):
that's that's how I see ourcompany right now.
Yeah, they'd be like I send theagreement, we're doing this
right now.
It was true, you know over andover.
Except was like they like rallybehind that.
And then and I can't even tellyou how many times I'd get like
a Late night phone call from awrestler be like, hey, i'm out
at a bar with XYZ wrestler and Iwas just telling them how we're
(31:33):
we're doing this, dude you know, I wouldn't even get into the
details.
And I'm sitting here onChristmas Eve on a you know My
family's in the other room andI'm like I'm trying to hide away
on top of restrooms.
I'm like I gotta go you knowI'm sorry, bro, but like It was
(32:05):
really hard to get in and onceyou earn their trust and do well
by them and And they have likea, an understanding for you're
coming from, it's like, it'slike being part of, like a tribe
, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
One of the things that's Uniquefor well, not unique, but one
of the things that's like staple, i guess for JRPG is is is the
loot and gear.
Can you talk about how loot andgear is used in the in wrestle
quest?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Oh yeah.
So, given that it is a toystory meets wrestling like
universe, we have both thetraditional Character add-ons
and items and we also have, likethe action figure, modification
, crafting, because everythingcan be can be made in this kind
of high fantasy, afford in space.
So you know, one of the thingsthat I think is most interesting
(32:56):
about Russell Quest is that itdoesn't have character creators,
because it's a story driven RPG.
So the way you're customizingyour character are things like a
custom walk-on with walk-oneffects and music and modifiers
and Things like using your partyand your manager and choosing
you know your heel and facebehaviors, and So all those
(33:17):
things actually tie back todifferent types of equipment
items.
Another thing that's been funis the way we use the legends,
because you don't play as thelegends.
Sometimes you can play with thelegends, so in some cases, like
you can we've already spoiledthis in a trailer, but you know,
in some cases, if you finishcertain quests and You earn the
(33:40):
achievement and opportunity tohave under the giant as a
summons, which is a common RPG.
Yeah no ability and trope.
Yeah, you can basically besummoned into the ring, lift the
ring up because he's a humankind, you snap it in half And
then finish off screen and it'slike.
It's like the coolest way tosummon the giant, you know yeah,
(34:01):
right.
And it's either that or you canwear a singlet.
Neither one.
You know One of the ways we use, like the different
customization and differentitems.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
And and also grinding is also.
Grinding for levels is alsovery common with JRPG's.
What is?
how does leveling system workin wrestle quest and how did you
handle the grind element inwrestle quest?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
You know it's funny, i'm a member of quite a few JRPG
groups And I want to use, look,the incorrect language here,
but there's one that I've beencalled JRPG shit posting And
it's the same complaints all thetime.
You know, i wish I didn't haveto grind.
I wish, you know, there's amore quality life features and
(34:47):
it was easier to find my wayaround, and I wish there was
more content and more playablecharacters.
And You know, given that we arefans of that genre, like I
would say that Wrestle Quest ismore of a JRPG than a wrestling
game and it's oozing or sleptwith wrestling because you know,
first and foremost, it's a JRPG, built with all the dressings
(35:07):
and features and some featuresthat you'd want to see in a game
like that.
You know there's just like a,there's just a crazy amount to
unpack and Nobody that is over25 wants to grind and a JRPG
It's not fun, you know so.
So we we make it more leanforward than sit back with the
(35:29):
way the gameplay works.
So, as an example, there aresome mechanics that are Intended
to emulate the feeling ofperforming for a crowd, with the
crowd doors on screen duringbattle And there's a height
meter at the bottom, where thecharacter player is actually
actually rewarded For using avariety in variants and moves,
rather than sitting there andspanning.
You know, burrito slam, burritoslam, burrito slam right, and
(35:54):
That's pretty interesting way tosolve it, because we're
actually On the height meter.
You actually are rewarded withitems, perks and better battles.
Right doing some of the thingsthat are fun about wrestling
like it might be the first yearof PG where people taunt all the
time because it's funny andit's part of wrestling, right,
like part of that, wrestlingpieces like He's like kicking
(36:15):
him back and being like no, no,no, no, no.
You know, and it's like You know, we need to make sure that was
represented and that was reallyin the in the game.
So, and the height meter hassome levels of risk reward, like
if you go to pin Somebody veryearly and they're not ready to
be pinned and they kick outtheir recovery hit points.
But if you do pin them earlyand you get an upset like that,
(36:38):
like the car may not be superexcited, you get crazy perks for
it And it's like a lot oflayers.
You know what else quest likethat, or the pin itself, like
the pin, it all is a very basicrhythm mechanic And you can turn
it off as an option from themenu for accessibility sake.
But you know, the pin mechanicis another example of a lean
(36:58):
forward like.
The pin mechanic has adifficulty to it where, if you
missed me, times in a row, itdoes become easier.
Like the marker and the UI,they come slower and bigger and
These are the line up.
But it's like you.
You were rewarded if you'reable to hit that high skill,
rhythm, moment, time andcorrectly, and These are small
things but they keep you engagedand playing and thinking, and
(37:20):
And it never makes you feel likeyou're exhausted in a battle.
Yeah you know, for that mattertoo, you don't have to fight
every single person on a path.
Like you go walk around them,like you don't have to do it
just to do it's sake.
And You know, the only gamethat's allowed to do that to me
is Gem 1, pokemon.
Otherwise I just don't.
Who wants to fight every singlebeekeeper, every?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
single point.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
No way, not 11 anymore, you know yeah, I want
to play that beekeeper, all Iwant to do is move on, let me
die.
I want to have control over myRPG destiny.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, i did go out and find everyone
because I love the little bitthat I got to play, right, i did
love because it's fun.
It that's the.
That's the part that I do loveabout it too.
It's like the wrestling is funin this game and And and and.
There's something about how youguys are able to capture the
excitement of wrestling in inyour matches too.
(38:19):
But make it over the top.
I mean wrestling's over the top, let's face it.
But I mean like make it archieRPG.
You know the g RPG elements too, like I just I don't know.
I loved that about the game andit's so, so vibrant and so
colorful and and the fact thatyou stuck with You know the this
retro feel, but it doesn't feellike you know it's.
The artwork is so amazing.
(38:40):
It doesn't feel retro, but itis retro and you're like wow,
like it.
Just everything pops in thegame too.
It's so good.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, you know, i wish I could tell you how many
hours of how much.
There's probably 40 people forfour years full-time.
You know, it's just been crazy,and it's like I'm saying that
because when we first started itwe're like oh, how do we make
these buildings feel, lookunique, how we make the
characters look?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
unique.
How do?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
we get more expression?
How do we?
and that's what makes games andindie games but any type good
is like the nurturing and theattention and and it's like I
can never get those days andhours back.
But But the number of cats thathave spent time just staring at
a scene, I mean like we need toadd a water treatment with some
(39:26):
biceps or I can't get asleeptonight, you know.
And then next thing, you know,there's, like you know, I go to
the snow area and there's theselike jack snowmen and I'm like
this Hey.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Why would?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
there never a wcw.
Antarctica night There's nomuch.
I'm explored territory there.
You know, yeah, why are thereno snowmen based wrestling
gimmicks?
That is a good.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
That is a good question because, like, we've
had plenty of games like clayfighter, right, where they had
snowmen characters.
But you're right, wrestlers,that's not.
That's not a thing, that'sfunny missed opportunity, man,
but don't worry, we're bringinga lot of that in wrestling quest
.
Nice, um, so I alluded to thisearlier.
I love the fact that At PAXEast you set up a wrestling ring
(40:14):
and you add wrestling matches.
Uh, you also let people walkinto the ring and got their
picture taken with the what, thewhat the belt, um, and I will
say I think I mean I knowskybound had other games there
and I'm not trying to Sayanything like that they didn't
attract a lot of people, but Ithink you're wrestling attracted
a lot of people to Uh, to thatarea.
(40:35):
Um, whose idea was that to uh,to bring in wrestling into into
PAX East?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
you know, we uh, without the volging, like the
part that I think would bothersome of my friends We, we first
started wrestling.
We put together like our visiondocument of what we went out of
the game And I remember theskybound team kind of laughing
and embracing some of it.
And then you know, basicallysaying, well, there's no way
we're doing these things, likewe're not gonna bring a
(41:02):
wrestling ring to PAX, like Idon't even know how to ensure
them, like my refuse to get onthis path.
Like You know, you guys areover your skis, yada, yada, yada
.
And then I said, well, howabout if we get above a certain
wishlist threshold?
How about you reward us withthe wrestling ring?
and they're like, okay, if youget over.
(41:23):
It was like some preposterousnumber of wishlist, do you know?
if you get a thousand wishlists in this time, then Then
okay, then we'll do it.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
I was like, all right , cool I'm actually every single
friend.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Coworker Podcast interview media person.
I'm like hey can you, can youput a link in?
this is wishlist.
And on steam I was like that Ineed my math.
I'm like don't tell anybody,but If we can hit this number,
you know we're gonna.
We're gonna promise a wrestlingring and I would be.
You see, like they're head ofmarketing on the emails and you
Text my phone, he'd be like stopwhatever you're doing.
(41:57):
It's not good.
You can't trust these people.
They're gonna talk about it.
They're gonna pay us in the badlight of like no man, like
they're all wrestling fans, likethey're gonna rise up.
You know he's like yourliability.
You have to stop, you know.
And then I remember I remember,like looking at the, i was like
looking at our wish list, lookslike six months for paths.
(42:18):
I was like we're gonna make it.
You know.
I remember I remember messagingthe like the read pop people
and it's like what would it takefor insurance?
Because Boston's like unioncity.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You know, I'm like what would it?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
take on the insurance and you can say trust to get a
wrestling ring.
And they're like You know, andI remember I remember going for
little layers and all the stepsand finding like the right
people's safety, motor insurancepackages and finally We hit the
wish list threshold and I puttogether my you know, my Pino,
my budget, all my, my talentroster and We'd hand selected
the talent.
(42:50):
There too.
We'd, like you know, three ofthe talent that were there were
actually like top 10 unsignedindependent wrestlers in the US,
like like JT Dunn's amazing,you know.
I remember.
I remember, like the some someof the team that are calling me
and being like I was.
So we're doing this thing, youknow, and if they get hurt it's
your fault and Your problem isyour fault and we're gonna brand
(43:13):
it all wrestling class.
It's not gonna be brainless,guy bound and it's your
liability.
And you know, and I was likecool, let's do it.
You know and yeah.
I remember like we all get itset up.
I remember the day before packsopened I was like sitting there
with the team.
It was like Flynn and Zach Andwe're like kind of looking
around.
I was talking to pat the catand I was like, all right, like
you guys, uh, can you guysbelieve we got the wrestling
(43:35):
ring?
and they're like no, you know,like Like, what do we even do
with this?
I was like we're gonna wrestle,you know, and uh, and it went
off of that hitch, you knowthere was no, no one got hurt.
Fans went crazy.
We definitely shut down packs afew times.
You know like it was like um Isome great photos Where we're
taking from the skywalk, whetherit, you know, 10 people deep,
you could not walk on the aisleuh and it was just uh, wrestling
(44:00):
fans and gaming fans perplexed,and then just like captured by
all the fun and you know, it'slike a return from covid too,
right, it's like yeah the eventsa bit a little dry and On the
last event, after it was overthe last match, we did three
cards.
After the last one was over, iremember um, one of the sky
mountain members came over.
It's like I can't believe thatyou guys pulled this off And
(44:22):
nobody got hurt and everythingsaved.
He's like I just hope we don'tget some hate mail later and and
it was uh, it was like justcrazy positive, like I can't
tell you how many.
We had, people that we hadn'teven spoken to in like four
years, that were just textingand calling and emailing us,
being like Are you guyswrestling people?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
You know, that's actually like the majority of
the story of how the ringhappened was we just that was on
our wish list and We just madea deal that if we got far enough
, that we work it out.
And we did and we, you know Itwas great.
The fans like really did lovethat, by the way, and I yeah.
I hope we can do it again.
Got an event, but I guess Iguess it depends on the game
(45:05):
cell.
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I think I think I'll do well.
I, i had so much fun.
That was my highlight of ofpacks east was uh.
So I went to see your um, yourdiscussion on uh, ressifying, uh
, i mean, yeah, g rpgs andwrestling right like the, the
combination too.
And you mentioned like we had awrestling match on Friday night
and I was like wait what?
(45:28):
and uh, and then I found out,yeah, noon on Saturday you're
gonna have more.
And I was like 10 30 standingin front.
I'm like I have a lunch breakthat I could sit here, stand
right in front.
And I stood right in front and,uh, it was so awesome, it was
such a, it was so much fun.
Uh, it was just a blast and thewrestlers were fantastic.
(45:48):
It was so good.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah, i'm gonna be like the man.
I'm so glad you were able tocheck it out.
You know, i uh, i really hopewe can do something else about
your later this year, after thegame launches, we have two
events We've been flirting withfor a while about this, you know
, and it's a.
it's like a wrestling fansdream, right like healthy
stories, work with these legendsand then like set up your own
wrestling cards, like Wow.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, man, and just the, the heels were so much fun
too, like in that you guys saidit was so much fun, like they
really played the crowd and Yeah, and you know, like I said
before recording, it was like mykid dream come true, where I
get to sit in front of the Wellas an adult too, right, like of
(46:38):
course I want to go wrestlingmatches and sit in front, but
like I was right in front and Igot to interact with the
wrestlers, it was, it was ablast, it was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, I'm so glad man .
It's like it's probably mynumber one and And top three
memories of being with the teamand having them.
Like it was just so greatwatching them.
I'm so happy.
Yeah so happy.
Several of the publishers thatsaid like vehemently no to us
were there.
They were just like.
There was a time where I waslike sending them custom
(47:07):
wrestling belts to their officeto sign the game.
You know, i just know they werejust like, oh god, these guys
again.
And then it was great being aPaxies with our new wrestling
belts in our ring, shutting downpacks and having some of those
publishers be like, hey, james,yeah, exactly Man.
(47:29):
You know, like someone else,someone else launched a.
You probably saw theannouncement for wrestle story,
someone else's RPG.
I think that's like aflattering.
You know AW just announced afigure fighters which is like a
Wrestling action figure toy basegame and I was like to dress
dresses, making all sorts ofthings happen.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
When, when does?
when does this game come out?
then We're taking down dudeYeah wow And what work and all
people play this game.
I know like I think, switchright and yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
PS4, ps5, xbox one, xbox X, nintendo switch.
Of course, on steam, please gowishlist it now We could do
another ring.
You know it's coming all overthe place.
There's a couple otherunannounced Distribution
channels that we're gonna betelling the world about shortly,
but it's gonna be easy to findRussell quest.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Nice one last question I have for you, and
then I'll let you go.
What's one thing that youlearned about yourself in the
process of making this game?
Speaker 2 (48:36):
It's a good question, i guess I uh, i learned that I
Will continue forward Wellbeyond any reason to my
detriment, and I need to besurrounded by people who are
willing to tell me no, that'sbeen a real theme, for sure nice
.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Well, james, there's a real pleasure meeting you.
I mean, i met you at PAX, Butit's a real pleasure again sit
and talk to you about Russellquest.
I cannot wait for this game tocome out, and August 8th can't
come soon.
Oh, eighth or six?
I'm sorry, did you say six oreight?
Yeah, august 8th, august 8th,okay, i cannot wait for that
date to come.
Thank you so much for takingtime out your schedule and
(49:17):
meeting with me.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yeah, do me too.
I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
That's great, all right, thanks.
Yeah, you too.
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