May 11, 2023 • 22 mins
Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Michael Sargood, to discuss discovering and embracing your true identity in recovery.
For more Michael, follow him on IG @happywithoutthehooch - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast
Check out our Post-Show to hear us talk about how his ADHD diagnosis affects his recovery at www.patreon.com/gayapodcast
Until next time, stay sober friends!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hi everyone and welcome to Gaya, a podcast about sobriety for
the LGBTQ plus community and ourallies.
I'm your host, SteveBennet-martin.
I am an alcoholic and I amgrateful for my home group's
trivia nights.
As of this recording, I am 632days sober, and today we're
welcoming back friend of the podMichael to talk about identity.
Welcome back, Michael.
(00:26):
thank you for having me back.
How you doing?
Good.
And while many people who'vebeen listening since we started
might remember your name fromour episodes, unhappy with the
Hooch, and then happy withoutthe Hooch.
But why don't you give yourselfa brief little reintroduction
for people who might be, this istheir first time hearing from
you.
So my name's Michael Sagar.
(00:46):
I live in South End on Sea,which is in the southeast of
England.
I was yesterday two years sober,and it's been a bit of a, a
rocky journey.
And one of the things that.
Has helped me immensely duringthat journey has been community
both online and whereverpossible in person.
(01:07):
So I absolutely love podcastslike this that help create
community.
Excellent.
Well, it's a pleasure to haveyou back and what's been new
since our last episode, roughlya year ago.
Roughly a year ago.
It's been, the second year ofsobriety for me was probably a
bit tougher than my first.
I think in many ways the, thesobriety itself has been, it
(01:30):
seems like separate nature now.
There haven't been a huge amountof challenges, but in terms of
my personal life, there've beensort of lots of upheavals.
I'd been doing lot.
Temporary work.
And then there's always thestress when a sort of a
contract's coming towards theend.
Will I find sort of a job intime?
What, what will it be likefinancially?
It's been.
(01:51):
A bit stressful in terms of myrelationship with my partner who
was still drinking heavily andin addiction.
I, I ended up asking him to moveout because I couldn't deal with
it being in the house anymore.
So said I, I still want to betogether, but I can't have this
in the house.
I'll still try and help you outof this, but just not here, and
(02:15):
I'm pleased.
Let's.
I mean, after he moved out, hewas in homeless accommodation
for a little while and thathelped him have a bit of a wake
up call and he's now inaccommodation where he gets
it's, it's nicer than my flat.
I'm a bit jealous.
Mm-hmm.
But he also gets support withhis mental health, which is, has
been well needed like for a longwhile.
(02:38):
Literally two minutes walk frommy house.
And we see each other every day.
We're still a couple and he'seight months sober now himself
for the first time in his life.
So, well in his adult life,let's say other than other than
the up to his teenage years whenhe discovered drink and other
substances.
(02:58):
So yeah, there's been thatupheaval.
I've also, I've been dealingwith.
A, a looming court case.
I got myself into a lot oftrouble when I was on.
I'd been seven months sober andI'd then lapsed on the first
night of.
First lapse, I managed to get introuble with the police and I've
been waiting for a court case,which was only O cause of covid
(03:20):
and then strikes.
It only happened two weeks ago.
So for two and a half years,I've been sort of dreading the
outcome of this.
Will I still have my freedom atthe end of it?
And while I do, I'm doing theinterview with you.
So that has been a lot ofstress.
I, I've had lots of perfectexcuses to drink and there've
(03:42):
been lots of nice opportunitieswhere it would've been a real
blessing just to numb my brainfor a while.
But I've been determined not todo that because I know where it
leads.
And one of the reasons that I'mhere speaking to you today,
instead of eating some horribleporridge inside a cell, is that
I was able to demonstrate that.
(04:04):
I I've changed my behavior thatI don't drink.
I've maintained sobriety, I'veaddressed issues with my mental
health and that I'm not a threatto myself or other people.
So I have sobriety to thank forthat.
Yeah, that is awesome.
I mean, it's, you went through alot, but it's sounds like you've
made it through the other side.
(04:26):
So far you're pretty well, sothat's good to.
and yeah, it's like a freshstart.
Yes.
And out of all the topics andthings we could talk about in
the world, why did you choosethe topic of identity?
I chose the topic of identitybecause it's something that I
frequently hear is that people,after they've stopped drinking
(04:46):
for a while, they say they, theydon't know who they are anymore,
and that's exactly somethingthat I'd expressed as well.
It's like I've been drinking forso long now and I am.
Michael who drinks I'm, I'm theparty boy or at least I thought.
And now that I'm not drinking,who, who the hell am I?
And I think it's, it's verycommon for people to have this
(05:10):
identity crisis when they nolonger drink.
Because when we develop anaddiction of some sort, it
becomes part of our identitywhen we've been doing it for so
long that.
it's, it's only natural actuallythat we, that we wonder who we
are when we're not doing itanymore.
So that's, that's why I, I choseto do that with you.
(05:33):
And I think on the day when wediscussed it, I'd also had a
couple of people ask me, Ithought, let's ha, let's
actually talk about this becausethis is so common.
And yet I don't hear it talkedabout a huge amount, but it's,
it's all part of the of theprocess of sobriety is.
People use the word recovery,and I, I've not always
identified with that, but Ithink self-discovery is a huge
(05:56):
part of recovery.
So, and I've heard, heard somepeople talk about that they're
in discovery rather than inrecovery.
And that's something that reallyrings true for me.
Yeah.
And I, I think a lot of us canidentify with having.
alcohol or drugs be part of ouridentity during our use.
But like looking back, evenbefore those were introduced
into your life, did, did youalways feel comfortable with
(06:17):
your identity as like a childand a teenager or did you
struggle with it back then aswell?
I struggled with my emergingidentity when I was a teenager,
and a lot of that was to do withliving in a very conservative
part of the UK and becomingaware of my sexuality.
The, the mode that I operatedfrom wa was that I didn't want
(06:40):
to be picked on or punched, andso I felt like I had to.
hide that part of my identityjust, just not be noticed would
be wonderful.
Cause I'd seen what, you know,had happened to some other
people in my school who were,they were one or two openly gay
people and life didn't seem muchfun for them, and I was very
(07:00):
keen to avoid that.
Yeah.
I, so yes, I, but I think thatthe other thing with that comes
into play is that when.
in our teenage years, we don'thave a fully formed identity.
We're still working out who weare, and actually maybe we never
do.
But I, when you then startdrinking on top of it, I think
(07:23):
you essentially arrest thatdevelopment.
Mm-hmm.
maybe when you've starteddrinking, your identity isn't
actually fully emerged.
And I, I had a, a conversationwith a friend of mine who's a c.
and she said, what, what you shwhat you should consider doing
is go back to the person who youwere before you started
drinking, reconnect with whatgave you joy and happiness then,
(07:48):
and continues to develop.
And I was like, I can't go backto being 17 because I, that's,
that's when I started drinkingheavily and I was like, I'm, I'm
14 hours.
It seemed absurd to, to go allthat way back.
essentially.
That's what I found myself doinganyway, because the things that
I used to, like when I was 17, Istill like them now.
(08:11):
I've got more time for them nowcause I'm not drinking.
You can explore those, thosegeeky interests as a cause.
I was, I was a total geek or annerd.
Mm-hmm.
I'm just not ashamed of it now.
I'd, I'd rather be a geek than adrunk and.
I'm still very much the sameperson and I feel like I'm being
(08:31):
able to give that person some,some air time and maybe finish
their development.
And finally at, at the age of 40start doing some adulting.
Yeah.
And how would you say youridentity has changed since
getting sober then?
I'm a lot more honest about sortof my story and my past and I,
(08:56):
so because of that, I'm not, Ifeel I'm not hiding anything
anymore.
So I dunno whether mypersonality has really changed
or my identity, but what I allowpeople to see has changed.
So maybe people's impression ofme has changed.
I had lots of fears about beingopen about my story in.
(09:18):
When I first came out as havinga drink problem, that was very
much a, that was a very scarytime.
I did it by accident.
I was in a a recovery group, aFacebook recovery group based in
the uk and I cited that I wasgoing to share my story after
(09:38):
some time with the entire group.
And so I did so, and then Ithought I went and had some
breakfast and thought I'll checkout in these responses later.
When I went up to check theresponses later, I hadn't posted
it into the group.
I had posted it onto my wallsfor everyone who was connected
with me to see, and it wasdeeply personal about how I'd
(09:59):
struggled for a long time.
And I was worried how peoplewould perceive me and.
Read the responses.
I actually cried because I,there was initially horror, like
what I had done, and I wasexpecting people to turn their
backs on me when they discoveredthat I had a drink problem.
(10:23):
And instead, what I got was anoutpouring of support and
kindness from people who werefriends, colleagues.
Acquaintances.
And in a way it was, it was, Iwas glad I did it because
holding, holding back secretsand feeling you can't talk to
(10:47):
people about things is a hugeweight in itself.
And then the other day I did asimilar thing, but about the
scrapes that I've had with the,except this time I actually did
it on purpose.
I was scared and I did itanyway.
And that was because for two anda half years I've not been able
(11:07):
to talk about it for legalreasons.
Here in the UK we, you can'ttalk publicly about these things
until any case is over.
So I've just been carryingaround a secret again for two
and a half years that I foundreally troubling.
And then, I decided to just toget it out there, I'd had one
person who was trying to sort ofuse it as a weapon against me as
(11:28):
well, trying to just likethreatening to expose me.
And I thought, well, no, I'm notgonna give anyone that power.
I'll just talk about it myselfand take that power away.
And again, I was very scaredwhen I was hitting like the, the
send button.
Mm-hmm.
I was wondering who woulddisappear, what sort of judgment
I'd be up against.
And again, I just.
(11:50):
a lot of support from people andno nastiness.
And so maybe in terms of myidentity, that might change the
way people think of me.
Mm-hmm.
But I think it's for the, forthe positive though because I
haven't had the negativebacklash.
People haven't just disappeared.
(12:11):
People think I'm an honestpersonnel and I never used to
even trust myself before, letalone expect anyone else to
trust.
So I think my identity haschanged.
I'm, I think I'm a trustworthyperson now.
I think that's how people seeme, that I'm honest and
trustworthy.
And I don't think I could'vesaid that before.
(12:32):
I, I'm also probably not seen asthe party animal.
I'm quite glad to let that onego.
I've, I've enjoyed what I missedabout drinking a lot was having
the stories.
At the end of the night, butreally, I used to have have all
these funny stories that werefunny for the listener, but for
me it caused a huge amount ofpain a lot of the time.
(12:53):
But I'd laugh it off.
I still go out, I'm stillsociable.
I've been doing a lot of sobersocializing the past year.
We've got some sober raves and.
Meetups all popping up all overthe uk and I've been darting
around to all of those.
So I'm still somebody who's verysociable.
It is just, I tend to go homewith my cars, my my cars.
(13:15):
I tend to go home with my keysmy cards, credit cards, and, and
my wallet and my dignity stillintact.
So you can still be sociable.
and you still have some stories.
They might not be as dramatic,but you, you're allowed to
change your story.
I'm, I've got enough of the, thesilly stories and I'm, I'm happy
(13:38):
to go into a new chapter.
Excellent.
And so, so far we have anhonest, sociable geek.
How else would you define youridentity?
I suppose I'm still a bit of,I'm a bit of an oddball.
It's something I've always feltlike I've tried to hide in a
way, but I, I know my braindoesn't work in the same way as
(13:59):
other people's.
And actually I know that now.
I always just suspected itbefore, but part of my recovery
is involved having the headlooked at and I've been
diagnosed with A D H D and as alot of people know, there's a
lot of risk factor attached topeople with A D H D and
addiction.
You're a lot more likely to forman addiction about six times
(14:21):
more likely if you have a D H D.
And drinking for someone who hasADHD is particularly dangerous
because the things that A D H Dpeople generally struggle with
such.
Memory and losing things.
And dangerous and spontaneousactions.
(14:42):
All of these things that peoplewith a D H D are naturally not
very good at are also thingsthat alcohol makes a lot worse.
So I, I still lose things.
I can relate.
I, I like McKees.
I, I calculated the other dayhow long it, I spend looking for
McKees generally.
(15:03):
And then I multiplied it by sortof every day of the year, and I,
I'm losing about two days a yearas a sober person.
just looking for keys, I mean,she got one of those smart
devices that you put on yourkeys that you can then like
click a button on your phone.
I've got one, I've now got one.
And it's such a game changer,But even if I lose my keys now
(15:24):
then it might take me 10 minutesto find them.
Whereas previously, if I lost mykeys, it would require me to go
onto Google Map.
Cause I'd normally have lost myphone as well, so if I'd lost my
phone, gone to Google Maps, seewhich part of the city it
roughly is, text everyone, itwould be a whole day or two
trying to find things.
But, but now it's, yeah, so it'sa lot simpler.
(15:47):
I once found my phone up a treeand I've, I still dunno how it
got there.
It was just sitting on a branchof a tree.
but good old Google Maps helpedme find that.
There you go.
Yeah.
It's a wonder of the things thatlike we got away with back in
the day or like how things workout sometimes.
Yeah.
So now I suppose now I know thatI have a D H D I've been able to
(16:09):
look into it properly, so, causeI knew a D H ADHD existed,
didn't really know what it wasor its impacts.
And so of course I've been doinga lot more reading.
Beginning to understand how myown brain works and I don't want
necessarily ADHD to be part ofmy identity.
(16:29):
I don't want to, I, I don't wantit to be like a, how I identify
myself.
I mean, but labels are handy.
But it does mean that I'm ableto understand how my brain works
more and I'm able to be moreforgiving of myself.
Yeah.
When I struggle with things thatother people seemingly find.
I can forgive myself for it andsay, well, look, you've got an
(16:49):
extra challenge here that otherpeople don't.
I'm also very creative in waysthat other people may, might be
jealous of.
Sometimes they might think, oh,I wish I could do that, and
well, part of that might be doneto my A D H D as well.
But we are all different, aren'twe?
Our brains work differently.
(17:10):
Yeah.
I'm still learning.
Every day is every day is aschool day.
Yes, it is.
And if a listener is strugglingwith their identity, what advice
would you have for them?
If you're struggling with youridentity and addiction has been
part of it I would just repeatthe excellent advice that my
friend, my counselor friend gaveme and, and say, well, who were
(17:33):
you before your addictionstarted?
What things did you like?
what things were you interestedin?
And try and pick those up againand allow your identity to forge
itself.
I think there's a certain, Iidentity is a trick one cause
there's what we put out there,what we project, and then who we
actually are as well.
(17:54):
So you can change the way peopleperceive, perceive you by
changing.
The vibes that you put outthere.
I don't wanna go all hippie, butI think you, you trapped what
you put out and you have acertain level of ability to, to
dictate what you put out, you,what you project.
But if you are just wonderingwho the hell you are, yes.
Go back to when you were a kidbefore all of this addiction
(18:18):
stuff started and just allowyourself to develop again from
there.
And I think you'll probably findthat you haven't changed a huge.
The other tricky bit about thatis that don't expect to love
everything that you lovedstraight away.
If you're early on in sobriety,the, the way that alcohol works
is it, it can stop you enjoyingthings with that don't involve
(18:41):
al alcohol and it's calledanhedonia, so it makes it very
difficult to derive pleasure.
Some things in the way they usedto, and it can take months, a
year, whatever, to, to actuallyrepair itself.
So just keep persevering day byday and you, you'll get your new
identity.
(19:01):
Yeah.
And you might find it's actuallyyour old one.
I love that.
I spent so many hours, the, myfirst like 90 days, especially
building Lego.
It's because like we had like acouple leftover that were
gifted, like the adult likeversion or whatever.
And yeah, I, I was like, lookingback, I'm like, that's what I
loved.
Like, but when I was a kid andso I went right back to it.
But it was also just great, likekeeping my hands and my mind
(19:23):
busy in the evenings, cuz thatwas when, yeah, I would drink
the most.
Yes.
I, I, I used to love puzzlebooks as a kid, and I still love
those.
I've got an addiction now, sothat's one of me.
Addiction transfers withcrosswords.
I'm just doing fast.
When I first stopped drinkingmm-hmm.
I got a, I did 200 in a week.
(19:43):
And Wow.
And I, but I'm still I'm stilldoing them every day, but now
there's the Wordle as well.
And recently I've discoveredthere's something called Qual
and Ocdel.
And now I've just gotta reign itin again.
Otherwise I'll be doing nothingBut but word puzzles.
That's awesome.
Yes.
And I think, I think I saw likeRuPaul's hosting a new show
(20:03):
that's basically Wordle, butlike, they can't really call at
that, but like, yeah, it's gonnabe like on primetime soon.
I.
Well, I have to keep an eye openfor that.
Yes.
But any last thoughts onidentity?
You can be who you want to be ifyou put the work in.
So don't, if, if you've letalcohol or drugs define you,
(20:28):
you're, you're going to wonderwho you are without them.
But I think eventually theperson who discover you.
will be a much better personthan, than the one with drugs or
alcohol.
And if you're listening to thispodcast, you've probably had a
bad experience over the years,been left traumatized by drugs
(20:48):
or alcohol.
And when you strip those thingsout of your life, you'll learn
to love the, the, the authenticyou that hasn't had their mind
altered by substances.
So keep at it and don't be in a.
Beautiful.
And how can we find you on allthe socials?
(21:10):
All the socials on on Instagramand Facebook, IM at Happy
without the hooch and onTwitter, that's too many
characters.
So I am at Happy Hoochie So youcan find me on the socials
there.
Excellent.
Thank you so much and stickaround cuz we will dive more
into your ADHD diagnosis in thepatron.
(21:32):
But in the meantime, thank youso much.
It was great catching up withyou.
Thank you very much.
And if you're interested inhearing more, Michael, I'll
definitely head on over to ourPatreon family page today at
patreon.com/gay a and join for apost show after each episode
every week.
And be sure to follow us on allthe socials@gaypodcastgmail.com
(21:56):
and follow us wherever you'relistening so you can get new
episodes when they come outevery.
Until next time, stay soberfriends.
Hi everyone and welcome to Gaya, a podcast about sobriety for
the LGBTQ plus community and ourallies.
I'm your host, SteveBennet-martin.
I am an alcoholic and I amgrateful for my home group's
trivia nights.
As of this recording, I am 632days sober, and today we're
welcoming back friend of the podMichael to talk about identity.
Welcome back, Michael.
(00:26):
thank you for having me back.
How you doing?
Good.
And while many people who'vebeen listening since we started
might remember your name fromour episodes, unhappy with the
Hooch, and then happy withoutthe Hooch.
But why don't you give yourselfa brief little reintroduction
for people who might be, this istheir first time hearing from
you.
So my name's Michael Sagar.
(00:46):
I live in South End on Sea,which is in the southeast of
England.
I was yesterday two years sober,and it's been a bit of a, a
rocky journey.
And one of the things that.
Has helped me immensely duringthat journey has been community
both online and whereverpossible in person.
(01:07):
So I absolutely love podcastslike this that help create
community.
Excellent.
Well, it's a pleasure to haveyou back and what's been new
since our last episode, roughlya year ago.
Roughly a year ago.
It's been, the second year ofsobriety for me was probably a
bit tougher than my first.
I think in many ways the, thesobriety itself has been, it
(01:30):
seems like separate nature now.
There haven't been a huge amountof challenges, but in terms of
my personal life, there've beensort of lots of upheavals.
I'd been doing lot.
Temporary work.
And then there's always thestress when a sort of a
contract's coming towards theend.
Will I find sort of a job intime?
What, what will it be likefinancially?
It's been.
(01:51):
A bit stressful in terms of myrelationship with my partner who
was still drinking heavily andin addiction.
I, I ended up asking him to moveout because I couldn't deal with
it being in the house anymore.
So said I, I still want to betogether, but I can't have this
in the house.
I'll still try and help you outof this, but just not here, and
(02:15):
I'm pleased.
Let's.
I mean, after he moved out, hewas in homeless accommodation
for a little while and thathelped him have a bit of a wake
up call and he's now inaccommodation where he gets
it's, it's nicer than my flat.
I'm a bit jealous.
Mm-hmm.
But he also gets support withhis mental health, which is, has
been well needed like for a longwhile.
(02:38):
Literally two minutes walk frommy house.
And we see each other every day.
We're still a couple and he'seight months sober now himself
for the first time in his life.
So, well in his adult life,let's say other than other than
the up to his teenage years whenhe discovered drink and other
substances.
(02:58):
So yeah, there's been thatupheaval.
I've also, I've been dealingwith.
A, a looming court case.
I got myself into a lot oftrouble when I was on.
I'd been seven months sober andI'd then lapsed on the first
night of.
First lapse, I managed to get introuble with the police and I've
been waiting for a court case,which was only O cause of covid
(03:20):
and then strikes.
It only happened two weeks ago.
So for two and a half years,I've been sort of dreading the
outcome of this.
Will I still have my freedom atthe end of it?
And while I do, I'm doing theinterview with you.
So that has been a lot ofstress.
I, I've had lots of perfectexcuses to drink and there've
(03:42):
been lots of nice opportunitieswhere it would've been a real
blessing just to numb my brainfor a while.
But I've been determined not todo that because I know where it
leads.
And one of the reasons that I'mhere speaking to you today,
instead of eating some horribleporridge inside a cell, is that
I was able to demonstrate that.
(04:04):
I I've changed my behavior thatI don't drink.
I've maintained sobriety, I'veaddressed issues with my mental
health and that I'm not a threatto myself or other people.
So I have sobriety to thank forthat.
Yeah, that is awesome.
I mean, it's, you went through alot, but it's sounds like you've
made it through the other side.
(04:26):
So far you're pretty well, sothat's good to.
and yeah, it's like a freshstart.
Yes.
And out of all the topics andthings we could talk about in
the world, why did you choosethe topic of identity?
I chose the topic of identitybecause it's something that I
frequently hear is that people,after they've stopped drinking
(04:46):
for a while, they say they, theydon't know who they are anymore,
and that's exactly somethingthat I'd expressed as well.
It's like I've been drinking forso long now and I am.
Michael who drinks I'm, I'm theparty boy or at least I thought.
And now that I'm not drinking,who, who the hell am I?
And I think it's, it's verycommon for people to have this
(05:10):
identity crisis when they nolonger drink.
Because when we develop anaddiction of some sort, it
becomes part of our identitywhen we've been doing it for so
long that.
it's, it's only natural actuallythat we, that we wonder who we
are when we're not doing itanymore.
So that's, that's why I, I choseto do that with you.
(05:33):
And I think on the day when wediscussed it, I'd also had a
couple of people ask me, Ithought, let's ha, let's
actually talk about this becausethis is so common.
And yet I don't hear it talkedabout a huge amount, but it's,
it's all part of the of theprocess of sobriety is.
People use the word recovery,and I, I've not always
identified with that, but Ithink self-discovery is a huge
(05:56):
part of recovery.
So, and I've heard, heard somepeople talk about that they're
in discovery rather than inrecovery.
And that's something that reallyrings true for me.
Yeah.
And I, I think a lot of us canidentify with having.
alcohol or drugs be part of ouridentity during our use.
But like looking back, evenbefore those were introduced
into your life, did, did youalways feel comfortable with
(06:17):
your identity as like a childand a teenager or did you
struggle with it back then aswell?
I struggled with my emergingidentity when I was a teenager,
and a lot of that was to do withliving in a very conservative
part of the UK and becomingaware of my sexuality.
The, the mode that I operatedfrom wa was that I didn't want
(06:40):
to be picked on or punched, andso I felt like I had to.
hide that part of my identityjust, just not be noticed would
be wonderful.
Cause I'd seen what, you know,had happened to some other
people in my school who were,they were one or two openly gay
people and life didn't seem muchfun for them, and I was very
(07:00):
keen to avoid that.
Yeah.
I, so yes, I, but I think thatthe other thing with that comes
into play is that when.
in our teenage years, we don'thave a fully formed identity.
We're still working out who weare, and actually maybe we never
do.
But I, when you then startdrinking on top of it, I think
(07:23):
you essentially arrest thatdevelopment.
Mm-hmm.
maybe when you've starteddrinking, your identity isn't
actually fully emerged.
And I, I had a, a conversationwith a friend of mine who's a c.
and she said, what, what you shwhat you should consider doing
is go back to the person who youwere before you started
drinking, reconnect with whatgave you joy and happiness then,
(07:48):
and continues to develop.
And I was like, I can't go backto being 17 because I, that's,
that's when I started drinkingheavily and I was like, I'm, I'm
14 hours.
It seemed absurd to, to go allthat way back.
essentially.
That's what I found myself doinganyway, because the things that
I used to, like when I was 17, Istill like them now.
(08:11):
I've got more time for them nowcause I'm not drinking.
You can explore those, thosegeeky interests as a cause.
I was, I was a total geek or annerd.
Mm-hmm.
I'm just not ashamed of it now.
I'd, I'd rather be a geek than adrunk and.
I'm still very much the sameperson and I feel like I'm being
(08:31):
able to give that person some,some air time and maybe finish
their development.
And finally at, at the age of 40start doing some adulting.
Yeah.
And how would you say youridentity has changed since
getting sober then?
I'm a lot more honest about sortof my story and my past and I,
(08:56):
so because of that, I'm not, Ifeel I'm not hiding anything
anymore.
So I dunno whether mypersonality has really changed
or my identity, but what I allowpeople to see has changed.
So maybe people's impression ofme has changed.
I had lots of fears about beingopen about my story in.
(09:18):
When I first came out as havinga drink problem, that was very
much a, that was a very scarytime.
I did it by accident.
I was in a a recovery group, aFacebook recovery group based in
the uk and I cited that I wasgoing to share my story after
(09:38):
some time with the entire group.
And so I did so, and then Ithought I went and had some
breakfast and thought I'll checkout in these responses later.
When I went up to check theresponses later, I hadn't posted
it into the group.
I had posted it onto my wallsfor everyone who was connected
with me to see, and it wasdeeply personal about how I'd
(09:59):
struggled for a long time.
And I was worried how peoplewould perceive me and.
Read the responses.
I actually cried because I,there was initially horror, like
what I had done, and I wasexpecting people to turn their
backs on me when they discoveredthat I had a drink problem.
(10:23):
And instead, what I got was anoutpouring of support and
kindness from people who werefriends, colleagues.
Acquaintances.
And in a way it was, it was, Iwas glad I did it because
holding, holding back secretsand feeling you can't talk to
(10:47):
people about things is a hugeweight in itself.
And then the other day I did asimilar thing, but about the
scrapes that I've had with the,except this time I actually did
it on purpose.
I was scared and I did itanyway.
And that was because for two anda half years I've not been able
(11:07):
to talk about it for legalreasons.
Here in the UK we, you can'ttalk publicly about these things
until any case is over.
So I've just been carryingaround a secret again for two
and a half years that I foundreally troubling.
And then, I decided to just toget it out there, I'd had one
person who was trying to sort ofuse it as a weapon against me as
(11:28):
well, trying to just likethreatening to expose me.
And I thought, well, no, I'm notgonna give anyone that power.
I'll just talk about it myselfand take that power away.
And again, I was very scaredwhen I was hitting like the, the
send button.
Mm-hmm.
I was wondering who woulddisappear, what sort of judgment
I'd be up against.
And again, I just.
(11:50):
a lot of support from people andno nastiness.
And so maybe in terms of myidentity, that might change the
way people think of me.
Mm-hmm.
But I think it's for the, forthe positive though because I
haven't had the negativebacklash.
People haven't just disappeared.
(12:11):
People think I'm an honestpersonnel and I never used to
even trust myself before, letalone expect anyone else to
trust.
So I think my identity haschanged.
I'm, I think I'm a trustworthyperson now.
I think that's how people seeme, that I'm honest and
trustworthy.
And I don't think I could'vesaid that before.
(12:32):
I, I'm also probably not seen asthe party animal.
I'm quite glad to let that onego.
I've, I've enjoyed what I missedabout drinking a lot was having
the stories.
At the end of the night, butreally, I used to have have all
these funny stories that werefunny for the listener, but for
me it caused a huge amount ofpain a lot of the time.
(12:53):
But I'd laugh it off.
I still go out, I'm stillsociable.
I've been doing a lot of sobersocializing the past year.
We've got some sober raves and.
Meetups all popping up all overthe uk and I've been darting
around to all of those.
So I'm still somebody who's verysociable.
It is just, I tend to go homewith my cars, my my cars.
(13:15):
I tend to go home with my keysmy cards, credit cards, and, and
my wallet and my dignity stillintact.
So you can still be sociable.
and you still have some stories.
They might not be as dramatic,but you, you're allowed to
change your story.
I'm, I've got enough of the, thesilly stories and I'm, I'm happy
(13:38):
to go into a new chapter.
Excellent.
And so, so far we have anhonest, sociable geek.
How else would you define youridentity?
I suppose I'm still a bit of,I'm a bit of an oddball.
It's something I've always feltlike I've tried to hide in a
way, but I, I know my braindoesn't work in the same way as
(13:59):
other people's.
And actually I know that now.
I always just suspected itbefore, but part of my recovery
is involved having the headlooked at and I've been
diagnosed with A D H D and as alot of people know, there's a
lot of risk factor attached topeople with A D H D and
addiction.
You're a lot more likely to forman addiction about six times
(14:21):
more likely if you have a D H D.
And drinking for someone who hasADHD is particularly dangerous
because the things that A D H Dpeople generally struggle with
such.
Memory and losing things.
And dangerous and spontaneousactions.
(14:42):
All of these things that peoplewith a D H D are naturally not
very good at are also thingsthat alcohol makes a lot worse.
So I, I still lose things.
I can relate.
I, I like McKees.
I, I calculated the other dayhow long it, I spend looking for
McKees generally.
(15:03):
And then I multiplied it by sortof every day of the year, and I,
I'm losing about two days a yearas a sober person.
just looking for keys, I mean,she got one of those smart
devices that you put on yourkeys that you can then like
click a button on your phone.
I've got one, I've now got one.
And it's such a game changer,But even if I lose my keys now
(15:24):
then it might take me 10 minutesto find them.
Whereas previously, if I lost mykeys, it would require me to go
onto Google Map.
Cause I'd normally have lost myphone as well, so if I'd lost my
phone, gone to Google Maps, seewhich part of the city it
roughly is, text everyone, itwould be a whole day or two
trying to find things.
But, but now it's, yeah, so it'sa lot simpler.
(15:47):
I once found my phone up a treeand I've, I still dunno how it
got there.
It was just sitting on a branchof a tree.
but good old Google Maps helpedme find that.
There you go.
Yeah.
It's a wonder of the things thatlike we got away with back in
the day or like how things workout sometimes.
Yeah.
So now I suppose now I know thatI have a D H D I've been able to
(16:09):
look into it properly, so, causeI knew a D H ADHD existed,
didn't really know what it wasor its impacts.
And so of course I've been doinga lot more reading.
Beginning to understand how myown brain works and I don't want
necessarily ADHD to be part ofmy identity.
(16:29):
I don't want to, I, I don't wantit to be like a, how I identify
myself.
I mean, but labels are handy.
But it does mean that I'm ableto understand how my brain works
more and I'm able to be moreforgiving of myself.
Yeah.
When I struggle with things thatother people seemingly find.
I can forgive myself for it andsay, well, look, you've got an
(16:49):
extra challenge here that otherpeople don't.
I'm also very creative in waysthat other people may, might be
jealous of.
Sometimes they might think, oh,I wish I could do that, and
well, part of that might be doneto my A D H D as well.
But we are all different, aren'twe?
Our brains work differently.
(17:10):
Yeah.
I'm still learning.
Every day is every day is aschool day.
Yes, it is.
And if a listener is strugglingwith their identity, what advice
would you have for them?
If you're struggling with youridentity and addiction has been
part of it I would just repeatthe excellent advice that my
friend, my counselor friend gaveme and, and say, well, who were
(17:33):
you before your addictionstarted?
What things did you like?
what things were you interestedin?
And try and pick those up againand allow your identity to forge
itself.
I think there's a certain, Iidentity is a trick one cause
there's what we put out there,what we project, and then who we
actually are as well.
(17:54):
So you can change the way peopleperceive, perceive you by
changing.
The vibes that you put outthere.
I don't wanna go all hippie, butI think you, you trapped what
you put out and you have acertain level of ability to, to
dictate what you put out, you,what you project.
But if you are just wonderingwho the hell you are, yes.
Go back to when you were a kidbefore all of this addiction
(18:18):
stuff started and just allowyourself to develop again from
there.
And I think you'll probably findthat you haven't changed a huge.
The other tricky bit about thatis that don't expect to love
everything that you lovedstraight away.
If you're early on in sobriety,the, the way that alcohol works
is it, it can stop you enjoyingthings with that don't involve
(18:41):
al alcohol and it's calledanhedonia, so it makes it very
difficult to derive pleasure.
Some things in the way they usedto, and it can take months, a
year, whatever, to, to actuallyrepair itself.
So just keep persevering day byday and you, you'll get your new
identity.
(19:01):
Yeah.
And you might find it's actuallyyour old one.
I love that.
I spent so many hours, the, myfirst like 90 days, especially
building Lego.
It's because like we had like acouple leftover that were
gifted, like the adult likeversion or whatever.
And yeah, I, I was like, lookingback, I'm like, that's what I
loved.
Like, but when I was a kid andso I went right back to it.
But it was also just great, likekeeping my hands and my mind
(19:23):
busy in the evenings, cuz thatwas when, yeah, I would drink
the most.
Yes.
I, I, I used to love puzzlebooks as a kid, and I still love
those.
I've got an addiction now, sothat's one of me.
Addiction transfers withcrosswords.
I'm just doing fast.
When I first stopped drinkingmm-hmm.
I got a, I did 200 in a week.
(19:43):
And Wow.
And I, but I'm still I'm stilldoing them every day, but now
there's the Wordle as well.
And recently I've discoveredthere's something called Qual
and Ocdel.
And now I've just gotta reign itin again.
Otherwise I'll be doing nothingBut but word puzzles.
That's awesome.
Yes.
And I think, I think I saw likeRuPaul's hosting a new show
(20:03):
that's basically Wordle, butlike, they can't really call at
that, but like, yeah, it's gonnabe like on primetime soon.
I.
Well, I have to keep an eye openfor that.
Yes.
But any last thoughts onidentity?
You can be who you want to be ifyou put the work in.
So don't, if, if you've letalcohol or drugs define you,
(20:28):
you're, you're going to wonderwho you are without them.
But I think eventually theperson who discover you.
will be a much better personthan, than the one with drugs or
alcohol.
And if you're listening to thispodcast, you've probably had a
bad experience over the years,been left traumatized by drugs
(20:48):
or alcohol.
And when you strip those thingsout of your life, you'll learn
to love the, the, the authenticyou that hasn't had their mind
altered by substances.
So keep at it and don't be in a.
Beautiful.
And how can we find you on allthe socials?
(21:10):
All the socials on on Instagramand Facebook, IM at Happy
without the hooch and onTwitter, that's too many
characters.
So I am at Happy Hoochie So youcan find me on the socials
there.
Excellent.
Thank you so much and stickaround cuz we will dive more
into your ADHD diagnosis in thepatron.
(21:32):
But in the meantime, thank youso much.
It was great catching up withyou.
Thank you very much.
And if you're interested inhearing more, Michael, I'll
definitely head on over to ourPatreon family page today at
patreon.com/gay a and join for apost show after each episode
every week.
And be sure to follow us on allthe socials@gaypodcastgmail.com
(21:56):
and follow us wherever you'relistening so you can get new
episodes when they come outevery.
Until next time, stay soberfriends.
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