October 17, 2024 • 24 mins
Hey there, Super Sober Heroes! In today’s episode of gAy A, host Sober Steve (with 1,227 days sober!) welcomes back Danielle—one of our long-time pod family members, to dive into a topic that many in the LGBTQ+ community can relate to: Being “Out” in Sobriety.
What you’ll hear in this episode:
- Danielle reflects on her experiences of coming out in college and how it mirrors her sobriety journey.
- They discuss the importance of recovering out loud and the impact of living authentically in both your sexuality and your recovery.
- The connection between vulnerability and community, and how being open helps others feel less alone.
- Danielle shares how running is part of her self-care routine in sobriety and how she finds both mental and physical health benefits from it.
- Why it’s so crucial to be present and how sobriety allows Danielle and Steve to fully embrace life’s ups and downs.
- The societal assumptions about the queer community and sobriety, and how the LGBTQ+ community continues to evolve with more support and visibility.
Danielle’s candid and insightful take on being open about sobriety, sexuality, and life is sure to inspire anyone struggling with the idea of coming out in any aspect of their life. The conversation highlights the importance of connection, community, and embracing your authentic self, no matter the fears or challenges you face.
Key Moments:
- Danielle shares her personal story about coming out in college after a tragic event sparked her to live authentically.
- The parallel between coming out as LGBTQ+ and coming out as sober.
- The importance of vulnerability and how recovering out loud has helped others start their sobriety journeys.
- Reflections on how the queer community continues to grow stronger despite challenges.
Connect with Danielle:
Follow Danielle on Instagram at @DC_and_Rosie (closed account but accepting friends of Steve!)
Resources Mentioned:
- Looking for support in your sobriety journey? Visit www.sobersteve.com for more resources and community connections.
Make sure to hit Follow so you don’t miss any of our upcoming episodes, and don’t forget to tune in every Thursday for new content.
Follow us on Social Media:
- Instagram: @gAyApodcast
- Facebook: gAy A Podcast
If you enjoyed this episode:
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Stay Sober, Friends!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve (00:01):
Hey there, super sober heroes.
It's your host.
Sober Steve, the podcast guyhere today with 1, 227 days
sober and here today with a podfamily member at this point,
Danielle.
Welcome back, Danielle.
Danielle (00:15):
Hello, Steve.
It's so good to be back.
I forgot to check my number ofdays, but I'm a little over
1700.
I do know that.
Steve (00:23):
That is awesome.
And I can imagine after thatmany days, it being hard to keep
track of the individual ones.
I thank God for my tracking appsas we discussed before.
So yes, I know many of ourpodcast listeners that have been
around for a while will haveheard you because you've been on
episodes talking about thingslike dating and sobriety with
the apps.
But why don't you introducepodcasting.
(00:45):
Be like me and sometimes forgetthings.
Danielle (00:48):
Sure.
My name is Danielle.
I live in Western Massachusettswith my dog Rosie, hence the DC
and Rosie is my Instagramhandle.
And yeah, I have just taking itday by day in my sobriety.
And I'm always excited to chatwith you, Steve, or really
anybody about sobriety recovery.
I also when I'm not chattingabout that, I run or just try to
(01:11):
get out in the woods a wholeheck of a lot.
And I work at a college, whichis, that's work, but my real
life is at home me, my dog, andjust trying to be Fit and
content and enjoy the sunshineas much as possible.
Steve (01:26):
Yeah, I love that.
You definitely were one of thoseinterviews when I was early on
in recovery and not a runnerthat I was like, wow, one day
maybe I'll be able to run likeon purpose and not for a life or
death situation.
But I wasn't there yet.
And now I am there and gettingready for my first big like
marathon Spartan race inDecember.
So you were one of the earlyones to inspire me to get off
(01:49):
the couch and get moving.
So thank you.
Danielle (01:52):
Yeah.
I say to people all the time,I've been running many years,
but in recovery, it's definitelyequal parts, physical health,
mental health.
It's definitely a recharge atthis point.
I think it's almost like amoving meditation for me.
I don't run with headphones,which I know a lot of people
think is totally wacky.
But yeah I enjoy it.
I try to get, I don't always geton the trails, but I try to get
(02:14):
out in nature and even on roads,I just take in the sites and
the, quirky little things, stopto pet the dogs, that sort of
thing.
Steve (02:22):
Yeah, that's great.
Now I can imagine, as much as Ilove a good jam in my
headphones, running without allof the distractions is almost
like meditation and kind ofcenters yourself at the same
time.
So that's cool to try thatsometime.
Danielle (02:35):
10 out of 10 recommend, but I know it's not,
running in general is not foreverybody and running without
headphones, I get a lot of.
Yeah.
A lot of looks when I tellpeople that.
Steve (02:44):
Yeah, and I know because you've been on this podcast so
many times, you've answered thisquestion before, but the answer
can always change.
What's your favorite part ofbeing sober today?
Danielle (02:53):
Oh yeah, the answer does change because sobriety is
definitely a day by day thing.
I think even with the ups anddowns, my favorite part of being
sober is That I'm present, I amone, even the ups, the downs,
everything in between, I am 100percent present with myself,
even when I'm thinking about thepast or thinking about the
(03:15):
future and not quite present,I'm still so much more present
than I ever was when I wasdrinking.
So I really appreciate that.
Steve (03:23):
Yeah, I definitely can relate.
Even, I was the type, as many ofus were, when bad things would
happen, my gut instinct would belike, run away, or tune it out,
or numb it down.
And so when bad things happen,it's still I'm like, why can't I
numb things?
But then I would also be numbingthe good stuff, and it all is
worth feeling it all thoroughlyfor the full, experience.
Danielle (03:42):
Absolutely.
Steve (03:44):
And what about being a member of the queer community
today?
What's your favorite part ofthat?
Danielle (03:50):
Oh, that's a good question.
I think at this point, it'sreally just for me.
Oh, that's a really goodquestion.
I think I really enjoy, I feellike there's a resurgence in the
last couple of years of thequeer community.
I feel like the unfortunate sideeffect of the extremely
(04:13):
polarizing political state we'vebeen in the last I don't know,
five or six, eight years hasactually created a lot more
people to really be vocal abouteither their support, As an ally
or just folks being out andsupporting each other and just
watching The next generation andall the changes in terms and
(04:36):
language and flexibility thatthey're bringing to the table,
it's just it feels you know anexciting time to be part of a
community that is really tryingto get a foothold in being
supportive and strong and youknow have a voice
Steve (04:52):
and for this week's topic, I want to talk about
being out in sober or being outin recovery because I know
that's a choice that, a lot oftimes people respect the
anonymity of 12 step programs,both not only with what goes on
in the rooms, but the fact thatthey have a problem at all.
They want to keep that private.
It's Part of their story.
And then you have people like meand people like you who recover
(05:15):
out loud and either make apodcast about it or any time one
of your podcast pals reaches outto you say, hell yeah, I'll be
on your show.
So have you always been the typeto do things out loud?
Or where does that come from?
Danielle (05:27):
Yeah, I think I feel like it, the two are very
related, my, Decision to comeout 30 years ago.
I came out in college.
And I think I talked a littlebit on my first podcast about my
coming out story and it reallywas a large part had nothing to
do with being gay, but just aclassmate of mine, my sophomore
(05:48):
year in college had gottencarjacked and murdered.
And I just shifted something inme to realize.
I have to be me.
I have to live my life becauselife is precious and we don't
know how much time we have.
And so that sort of started myjourney and then, i've always
almost always worked at collegesSo as I became a professional I
(06:12):
had the opportunity to turnaround and lend a hand and when
I walked into the rooms of aa Ifully respect and understand the
anonymity and I think a lot ofit from the beginning you know
was really crucial to theprogram But for me, I just felt
like this is a no brainer.
I have to.
Provide this support and I haveyou know, I won't mention them
(06:35):
because of anonymity But I knowat least five people because I
have put things out there onsocial media Have reached out to
me privately have found therooms have, you know started
their sobriety journey And it'sjust very similar if I can save
one life, you know From all theyears of working at colleges and
knowing i'm setting an examplefor other queer people Whether
they're younger than me or olderthan me like If I can pave a
(06:56):
smoother way for somebody else,I'm going to do that.
And I will risk my safety and mywellbeing for that because my
safety and wellbeing isn'tguaranteed no matter what, so it
just, I don't know, for methat's what makes sense for me.
I know it's a very intimatedecision, especially with
sobriety and recovery.
There's a lot of shame put on usin terms of, addiction being a
(07:16):
moral failure so I think there'sa lot of folks who don't come to
it naturally in terms of sharingthemselves that way.
And for other, privacy reasons Ifully respect that but for me it
just was like.
This is my path and it feelsreally good.
Steve (07:30):
Yeah, because we, I regularly on this podcast
compare the whole concept ofcoming out as an alcoholic or an
addict as what we went throughwhen we were coming out with our
sexuality.
And so I know that we both workfrom a generation where we were
in the closet and like you wereassumed to be straight.
Until you came out and it waslike an announcement that needed
me make because no one wouldjust assume it but as I'm
(07:53):
hearing, newer stories of peoplecoming out younger in this new
generation where it's not somuch a coming out process as
much as like they just aresaying like, this is who I am,
but it's not like.
An announcement.
Do you find there's any sort ofpressure?
Did you have pressure keepingyour sexuality a secret where
you had to come out?
Or did you ever feel like orhave circumstances where you
didn't necessarily come out asmuch as you just announced who
(08:14):
you were and it was just peoplewere okay with it?
Danielle (08:18):
Yeah, this doesn't really.
Closet.
I had longer hair most ofgrowing up, but I don't think I
was fooling a whole lot offolks.
So I think once I came out I wasa friend here and there,
starting my sophomore year incollege and then my folks.
And by the end of my time incollege, I was just completely
(08:39):
out.
And then.
Yeah, I think that if I was inany spaces where I felt like it
was being assumed, I just cut tothe chase and made, whatever way
seemed appropriate for the spaceand the setting made it clear.
I would come out in jobinterviews.
I just was like, I have no timeor patience and I don't want to
work anywhere.
I don't want to be in roomswhere, I'm not valued.
(09:01):
So it's like a two way street.
And I think that's, that's partof what keeps holds people back
is, it's like the thing of Idon't know if you've ever
experienced this, but like whenI was in high school, I had a
girlfriend, we wanted to go topride.
Or a queer bookstore and you'relike what if I see someone I
know and then you realize waitIf I see someone I know They're
also gay, so it's same as goinginto an a meeting You're like,
(09:22):
oh if I see someone I know it'sthey're there as well for the
same reasons.
And it's a safe space for thatreason.
So yeah, I just and then Youknow at this point, I don't
really I don't think I reallyhave to come out so much
anymore.
And part of that is, again, I'mback to what I was saying before
about just societal.
Assumptions if anything, I thinkI have to come out more as like
(09:45):
a lesbian and as a woman Youknow, I think I can get smushed
into the non binary they thembox a lot and i'm like no that's
not me, but it's that's aconversation for another day,
yeah, I think there's More boxesto check, but then sometimes
they're getting limited.
So I do put my she her pronounsin zoom squares for work and for
meetings because, I think it'simportant.
(10:05):
It's an important reminder thatthat's part of, Who I am.
Steve (10:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I definitely can agree withthat.
And I know that part of mydrinking as well was And part of
my coming out experience likegrowing up was that the people
who Were going to be comfortablewith the fact that I was gay got
that I was gay right away Ididn't hide it very well.
(10:29):
I was always called like thisspecial child until I toned it
down So the people who like Ihad to come out to where people
who were like actively lookingat the signs and looking the
other way saying like my parentsor like people like that.
So it was something though thatlike I had, I was told basically
by them at one point that Ilike, I had to hide it, that
behavior would be unacceptable.
So I had to hide this behavior.
(10:50):
And so coming out.
As gay was an experience, but itwas almost easier because so
many other people just knew bydefault.
It was different almost when Idrank because that was something
that I was able to hide.
I could never really hide that Iwas gay.
I was always very flamboyant.
Everyone pretty much like I wastelling people by the time.
That I was like a freshman,sophomore in high school, like
(11:12):
friends, and I was telling like,like extended family and other
friends that, adults andeverything like that, all the
kind of knew by like my junioryear, but it took me until my
30s to even admit to myself thatI was an alcoholic let alone
anyone else, because I was greatat hiding.
The fact that I drank a lotnormally, like how did your
staying in the closet experiencefor your sexuality compared to
(11:33):
your staying in the closet withdrinking experience?
Danielle (11:37):
Oh, I was a late bloomer to alcohol.
And it didn't manifest into amassive problem until much later
in life.
So I've been, I'll have fiveyears, God willing, as they say
in February.
And it was the last couple ofyears before that, that were
really really bad.
(11:58):
So I wouldn't say I was.
I wouldn't say I was in thecloset.
Once I realized I had a problem.
And once I got to the rooms ofAA, I just was out.
Like I just, I shouldn't saythat there was a small window
where I didn't entirely know.
And if anyone wants to go backand find my second podcast,
which is about sobriety andrecovery, I knew I was quitting
(12:19):
drinking.
And I did identify the first AAmeeting I went to which was on
Valentine's Day.
I just love that part of it wasa happenstance, but it's just,
it's so beautiful.
I identified as an alcoholic thevery first meeting I went to.
My therapist went with me andshe was like, oh, I'm surprised
you said that.
And I was like, what's thepoint?
If I'm here.
I'm here, I'm queer, I'm analcoholic, welcome.
(12:40):
And it just, so I identified asan alcoholic the first meeting,
but I still didn't fully know,like what, I knew I was gonna
quit drinking.
I didn't know all this like Iknew there was 12 steps.
It's so goofy I'm, like, I knowit's a 12 step program, but I
didn't realize it was work andall that was ahead of me in
terms of that, but That's wherethe beauty has definitely come
in doing all that work.
But in terms of being out, Ijust, I didn't tell people
(13:03):
immediately that I was analcoholic because there is that
sort of shame based, I trippedover that word a little bit the
first few months, but I did tellpeople, I think it's important
to say for anyone kind of new orstruggling, I did have moments,
I got sober just before thepandemic hit and like that
February, I went to visit myaunt and I told her ahead of
(13:23):
time, Hey, I'm, I'm, At thatpoint, I think I was I'm taking
a break from drinking, but, toset the stage of I'm, you guys
can drink or whatever, but I'mnot going to drink it helped me
keep myself in check and keep mefrom drinking.
Cause I think if I hadn't saidthat and I got there and they
were having a beer with dinner,I would have been like, oh,
cause I was, literally only acouple of weeks.
At that point I wasn't, I hadidentified as an alcoholic at a
(13:44):
meeting, but I wasn't like fullylike.
Knowing exactly where I was, butthat really helped to just get
ahead of that.
So I would say if you're new andstruggling and you get invited
to a function or you're going togo hang out with family, or
you're going to be doinganything where they're usually
you would have drank, I thinkit's great.
If you can tell at least one,you don't have to tell them
they're alcoholic.
You don't have to tell me you'regetting sober, but just Hey, I'm
just taking a break.
(14:05):
I'm probably not going to drinkthat helps you keep yourself
honest with yourself.
And that's really the key to thewhole thing is that self honesty
piece.
Steve (14:13):
Yeah, I definitely agree.
Oftentimes, especially early on,I was so worried with what other
people would think about mydrinking that I was always
mystified when they Didn'treally give too much thought to
it whatsoever.
And I would make this whole bigI'm coming to your party, but I
hope that, like I won't bedrinking.
They're like, okay, good.
Because like when you would comeand you would be drinking, there
(14:34):
goes a whole bottle of likeliquor.
So that's awesome.
I'm glad that you're notdrinking.
Danielle (14:38):
Saves us all a lot.
Steve (14:39):
Exactly.
They're like, And the fact thatyou're not drinking, everyone's
gonna be happier with the factthat you don't just get messy
and then do an Irish goodbyehalfway through the event.
So like everyone was like verysupportive of my family.
Like even before I wanted tomake it public that I was doing
this podcast and interviewingpeople and documenting it.
And before I was out doing allthis, I wanted to, that was more
of like a fear that I wasn'tgoing to make it or that I would
(15:01):
like stumble and not make it tothe 90 days before I wanted to
like, publicly make it, but Idid know that I need to make
sure like my support system knewwhat I was going through.
I was one of those like thatwould drink through the day at
work.
So I made sure like my directsupervisor knew what was going
on with me.
And she really helped me throughit and help cover my ass like
that first week while I wasgoing through some DTs and stuff
(15:22):
like that.
But like the people that neededto know new, and then I did in
time.
Come out.
But I like one thing likewhenever I would come out to
people as gay, no one was reallysurprised when people I did have
people that were very surprisedthat I had been struggling
mostly because they're known forme, like acting so loud out on
(15:43):
social media that they're like,Oh, we didn't think that you had
any secrets because you're soloud.
So the fact that you were alsolike struggling in silence going
through all of that surprised alot of people.
They knew I drank a lot, theyjust didn't know how much or
that it was.
Did you have that experience orwhat was that like as you were
coming out?
Danielle (16:01):
Yeah, I think for me, it definitely surprised a lot of
people because I was not a dailydrinker.
I was not always intoxicated.
I could go out with friends andhave the same two to three
drinks they had.
It was the mental gymnastics ofthe drinking.
It was all the stuff that it wasdoing to my mind.
And I was keeping all of thatvery private.
At the end it wasn't the amountof alcohol or the frequency, I
(16:24):
was not a day drinker.
None of that.
But I was mentally checked outto the point of really suicidal
in my own head.
My closest friends, were verysad to hear how bad it was
mentally after the fact.
I think that was really hard forthem to be they had no idea.
And that's on me because I wasnot sharing that.
(16:46):
And that's part of the disease.
So if you're in that struggle,like that, that checks out.
I think a lot of people weresurprised I even had one
coworker say how do you know itwas the alcohol and a few other
people even in program and I'mlike, at the end of the day, I
don't care.
Steve (17:00):
I'm
Danielle (17:00):
not going to sit here and split hairs because what I
do know is my life is 1 milliontimes better.
Steve (17:07):
Yeah.
Danielle (17:07):
And, I know my own experience.
I know I was completely unhappy,detached from myself, detached
from the people that I love andcare about.
And.
I know that alcohol technicallyquite a terrible drug with one
of the highest addiction ratesof, yes, it's the legal one.
Cannabis is getting there, butit's not great for you.
(17:27):
So I'm not going to sit here andgo back and try it out it's not
worth it.
There's nothing about it that'sworth it.
Yeah, I just forge ahead withthis this feels good.
This feels where I'm supposed tobe.
Steve (17:37):
Yeah.
And after I came out and toldeveryone in my life that I was
sober and people helped me getthrough those first couple of
years, I nowadays have foundthat it's almost flipped where.
Even though I can recover outloud, a lot of times people who
know me professionally,especially will get to before I
had sober in my business name,at least, but I had people who
(17:58):
knew me for a while where theylike realized that I was sober,
but they had never seen me drinklike ever.
And they don't know that versionof me where, when they hear A
story or hear me tell somethingin my podcast or a clip of me
doing something outlandish fromback in the day.
They're like, there's almostlike that kind of reverse
surprise of that they never knewthat version of me.
Do you have any sort ofdifference between people who
(18:18):
find out that you're sober, thatnever knew that side of you
versus people who did know youback then?
Danielle (18:23):
That's a good question.
I think obviously like I have anice crew of friends from aa.
But again, like I don't.
They said the elevator goes allthe way to the bottom, it goes
as far down as you want to takeit.
And I think I'm really gratefulthat I had some, I've definitely
had some drunken excursions, butI don't think I have anything so
outlandish that it, it's notanything that people who I think
(18:46):
can casually recreationallystill drink have done.
I hear some things in meetingsthat I'm like, oh my goodness,
I'm glad I got off the merry goround when I did because, that
those are all the things likethat didn't happen yet.
Steve (18:58):
Yeah, I definitely had a lot of yes, but I also know that
my elevator, like never went upa floor ever.
It was only going down.
Danielle (19:05):
It was a one way ticket for sure.
Steve (19:06):
It was skipping more floors with each timeout.
So it was just, yeah, I'm gladthat has stopped where it is.
So I also know especially aspeople are beginning and they're
very worried what other peoplewill think, we always have these
kind of fantasies in our head ofwhat if this person finds out
and reacts that way?
I know that most like 99 percentof those were all in my head at
(19:27):
the end of the day.
But have you had any experienceswhere someone gave you like a
line of questioning that madeeither you feel uncomfortable or
was maybe them gettinguncomfortable with you're not
drinking?
Danielle (19:39):
I think one friend who has dropped off because they
don't want to be around somebodywho's sober and, there's some
other like weird, this person'sconnected to this person, this,
blah, blah, blah.
But I think at the end of theday, they just, and it's
somebody who, Thanks a lot, andI wish them well and I hope
(19:59):
they're doing okay.
But we never had a full honestconversation about it.
Because it fell off for a wholehost of reasons, but I think
there was definitely an elementof, I think the people that are
also maybe struggling or don'twant to think if they're
struggling are the ones who aremost uncomfortable with being
around sober people.
(20:20):
But for the rest of the folks Ihave a core group of mom friends
that we've been going out onmom's night out since the kids
were in diapers and the kids arenow driving cars and in college.
And, I was at one of theirhouses yesterday, all four of us
were there, they're having anOktoberfest party.
And I'm like, I'm there.
I brought my dog like I'mhanging out and you know what
you realize and you said thislike you think you're so worried
(20:42):
about what everyone else isthinking and then you realize.
No one's thinking about you tobe a jerk, but actually no one
cares because if they have abeer in their hand, they don't
care if there's a beer in yourhand or not, or a seltzer.
Like they're really notconcerned.
I think younger, maybe collegeage kids, there's an element I
didn't I shared this in my firstpodcast.
I didn't drink at all myfreshman year in college because
(21:03):
of my mom's addiction and,issues.
And there was definitely some atthat point come on, aren't you
having fun?
How can you possibly be havingfun?
And now I'm like full circleback to actually, this is the
best
Steve (21:13):
I can
Danielle (21:14):
have fun.
I know I can have fun.
I can be goofy.
I'm goofier than ever.
I can, I can dance.
I can do all of the things thatI thought I needed alcohol to
do.
And then I also feel great thenext day.
Yeah, I don't have to worryabout what I did who I said what
to who I tried to make out withNot to do any of that
Steve (21:33):
Yeah, I loved this past friday night.
I went out with a friend.
It's a leather night at a barand that they You can drink like
a normal person.
So like they had like their oneor two drinks the night that we
were out.
But even then the next morningat kickball, they're like, I
feel so sick.
And I was like, I'm ready to go.
Let's dance.
Let's kick balls.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Because like you don't have toworry about that.
Even like the one or two, whichnever existed for me ever
(21:56):
before.
It was always.
A lot more than that, but Iwould not have been able to play
kickball the next morning ever.
So I love that, we have thisfull, awesome life now, day and
night.
Yes.
And one last thing I wanted totouch on, because oftentimes
like I found, I feel like forboth, we can relate to like our
sexuality.
We're very open about our likedrinking and sobriety where
we're very open about now.
(22:17):
So would you say that you'relike a very open person in
general?
Danielle (22:21):
I think sobriety and recovery has even helped that
because life is short andprecious I keep saying to people
lately, we get one little rideon this little marble and, what
is the point if we're not goingto be open vulnerable and
sharing as human beings, this iswhat we're here for connection.
I just feel so much moreconnected to people.
When I can share myself withthem and be vulnerable the more
(22:44):
I'm vulnerable and open, itinvites in not just about being
gay and not just about recovery,but in general although I will
say part of it is social mediais terrible for this.
People think everyone's having agrand old time.
So I share when I'm maybe nothaving a grand old time.
The beauty of going to 12 stepmeetings is you just feel less
alone.
The more you connect, the moreyou put out your hand, you get
so much more back.
(23:04):
But if you shrivel up and that'swhat we do when we're drinking
and we're ashamed and we'rehiding.
You shrivel up and no one canget in.
No one can connect with you.
I'm just trying to shed themasks, shed the layers I'm about
to be 50 in November, so I'mgoing out.
Steve (23:18):
Excellent.
You are living proof that soberis sexy and fierce.
So much for.
Always being one of my biggestsober heroes and coming back on
the show.
Thanks.
And people watching on the clipscan see you're at DC underscore
and underscore Rosie.
I'll make sure I put that in theshow notes as well.
(23:39):
So y'all can follow Danielle onInstagram there.
It's a closed
Danielle (23:44):
account, but anyone that also follows you, I will
accept.
Steve (23:48):
Sounds good.
Excellent.
Danielle (23:49):
Friends of friends.
Thank
Steve (23:51):
you very much, Danielle.
It's been a pleasure as always.
Always.
And stay tuned listeners for Andlisteners, make sure you follow
us wherever you're listening soyou can get new episodes every
Thursday.
And until then, stay sober.
Hey there, super sober heroes.
It's your host.
Sober Steve, the podcast guyhere today with 1, 227 days
sober and here today with a podfamily member at this point,
Danielle.
Welcome back, Danielle.
Danielle (00:15):
Hello, Steve.
It's so good to be back.
I forgot to check my number ofdays, but I'm a little over
1700.
I do know that.
Steve (00:23):
That is awesome.
And I can imagine after thatmany days, it being hard to keep
track of the individual ones.
I thank God for my tracking appsas we discussed before.
So yes, I know many of ourpodcast listeners that have been
around for a while will haveheard you because you've been on
episodes talking about thingslike dating and sobriety with
the apps.
But why don't you introducepodcasting.
(00:45):
Be like me and sometimes forgetthings.
Danielle (00:48):
Sure.
My name is Danielle.
I live in Western Massachusettswith my dog Rosie, hence the DC
and Rosie is my Instagramhandle.
And yeah, I have just taking itday by day in my sobriety.
And I'm always excited to chatwith you, Steve, or really
anybody about sobriety recovery.
I also when I'm not chattingabout that, I run or just try to
(01:11):
get out in the woods a wholeheck of a lot.
And I work at a college, whichis, that's work, but my real
life is at home me, my dog, andjust trying to be Fit and
content and enjoy the sunshineas much as possible.
Steve (01:26):
Yeah, I love that.
You definitely were one of thoseinterviews when I was early on
in recovery and not a runnerthat I was like, wow, one day
maybe I'll be able to run likeon purpose and not for a life or
death situation.
But I wasn't there yet.
And now I am there and gettingready for my first big like
marathon Spartan race inDecember.
So you were one of the earlyones to inspire me to get off
(01:49):
the couch and get moving.
So thank you.
Danielle (01:52):
Yeah.
I say to people all the time,I've been running many years,
but in recovery, it's definitelyequal parts, physical health,
mental health.
It's definitely a recharge atthis point.
I think it's almost like amoving meditation for me.
I don't run with headphones,which I know a lot of people
think is totally wacky.
But yeah I enjoy it.
I try to get, I don't always geton the trails, but I try to get
(02:14):
out in nature and even on roads,I just take in the sites and
the, quirky little things, stopto pet the dogs, that sort of
thing.
Steve (02:22):
Yeah, that's great.
Now I can imagine, as much as Ilove a good jam in my
headphones, running without allof the distractions is almost
like meditation and kind ofcenters yourself at the same
time.
So that's cool to try thatsometime.
Danielle (02:35):
10 out of 10 recommend, but I know it's not,
running in general is not foreverybody and running without
headphones, I get a lot of.
Yeah.
A lot of looks when I tellpeople that.
Steve (02:44):
Yeah, and I know because you've been on this podcast so
many times, you've answered thisquestion before, but the answer
can always change.
What's your favorite part ofbeing sober today?
Danielle (02:53):
Oh yeah, the answer does change because sobriety is
definitely a day by day thing.
I think even with the ups anddowns, my favorite part of being
sober is That I'm present, I amone, even the ups, the downs,
everything in between, I am 100percent present with myself,
even when I'm thinking about thepast or thinking about the
(03:15):
future and not quite present,I'm still so much more present
than I ever was when I wasdrinking.
So I really appreciate that.
Steve (03:23):
Yeah, I definitely can relate.
Even, I was the type, as many ofus were, when bad things would
happen, my gut instinct would belike, run away, or tune it out,
or numb it down.
And so when bad things happen,it's still I'm like, why can't I
numb things?
But then I would also be numbingthe good stuff, and it all is
worth feeling it all thoroughlyfor the full, experience.
Danielle (03:42):
Absolutely.
Steve (03:44):
And what about being a member of the queer community
today?
What's your favorite part ofthat?
Danielle (03:50):
Oh, that's a good question.
I think at this point, it'sreally just for me.
Oh, that's a really goodquestion.
I think I really enjoy, I feellike there's a resurgence in the
last couple of years of thequeer community.
I feel like the unfortunate sideeffect of the extremely
(04:13):
polarizing political state we'vebeen in the last I don't know,
five or six, eight years hasactually created a lot more
people to really be vocal abouteither their support, As an ally
or just folks being out andsupporting each other and just
watching The next generation andall the changes in terms and
(04:36):
language and flexibility thatthey're bringing to the table,
it's just it feels you know anexciting time to be part of a
community that is really tryingto get a foothold in being
supportive and strong and youknow have a voice
Steve (04:52):
and for this week's topic, I want to talk about
being out in sober or being outin recovery because I know
that's a choice that, a lot oftimes people respect the
anonymity of 12 step programs,both not only with what goes on
in the rooms, but the fact thatthey have a problem at all.
They want to keep that private.
It's Part of their story.
And then you have people like meand people like you who recover
(05:15):
out loud and either make apodcast about it or any time one
of your podcast pals reaches outto you say, hell yeah, I'll be
on your show.
So have you always been the typeto do things out loud?
Or where does that come from?
Danielle (05:27):
Yeah, I think I feel like it, the two are very
related, my, Decision to comeout 30 years ago.
I came out in college.
And I think I talked a littlebit on my first podcast about my
coming out story and it reallywas a large part had nothing to
do with being gay, but just aclassmate of mine, my sophomore
(05:48):
year in college had gottencarjacked and murdered.
And I just shifted something inme to realize.
I have to be me.
I have to live my life becauselife is precious and we don't
know how much time we have.
And so that sort of started myjourney and then, i've always
almost always worked at collegesSo as I became a professional I
(06:12):
had the opportunity to turnaround and lend a hand and when
I walked into the rooms of aa Ifully respect and understand the
anonymity and I think a lot ofit from the beginning you know
was really crucial to theprogram But for me, I just felt
like this is a no brainer.
I have to.
Provide this support and I haveyou know, I won't mention them
(06:35):
because of anonymity But I knowat least five people because I
have put things out there onsocial media Have reached out to
me privately have found therooms have, you know started
their sobriety journey And it'sjust very similar if I can save
one life, you know From all theyears of working at colleges and
knowing i'm setting an examplefor other queer people Whether
they're younger than me or olderthan me like If I can pave a
(06:56):
smoother way for somebody else,I'm going to do that.
And I will risk my safety and mywellbeing for that because my
safety and wellbeing isn'tguaranteed no matter what, so it
just, I don't know, for methat's what makes sense for me.
I know it's a very intimatedecision, especially with
sobriety and recovery.
There's a lot of shame put on usin terms of, addiction being a
(07:16):
moral failure so I think there'sa lot of folks who don't come to
it naturally in terms of sharingthemselves that way.
And for other, privacy reasons Ifully respect that but for me it
just was like.
This is my path and it feelsreally good.
Steve (07:30):
Yeah, because we, I regularly on this podcast
compare the whole concept ofcoming out as an alcoholic or an
addict as what we went throughwhen we were coming out with our
sexuality.
And so I know that we both workfrom a generation where we were
in the closet and like you wereassumed to be straight.
Until you came out and it waslike an announcement that needed
me make because no one wouldjust assume it but as I'm
(07:53):
hearing, newer stories of peoplecoming out younger in this new
generation where it's not somuch a coming out process as
much as like they just aresaying like, this is who I am,
but it's not like.
An announcement.
Do you find there's any sort ofpressure?
Did you have pressure keepingyour sexuality a secret where
you had to come out?
Or did you ever feel like orhave circumstances where you
didn't necessarily come out asmuch as you just announced who
(08:14):
you were and it was just peoplewere okay with it?
Danielle (08:18):
Yeah, this doesn't really.
Closet.
I had longer hair most ofgrowing up, but I don't think I
was fooling a whole lot offolks.
So I think once I came out I wasa friend here and there,
starting my sophomore year incollege and then my folks.
And by the end of my time incollege, I was just completely
(08:39):
out.
And then.
Yeah, I think that if I was inany spaces where I felt like it
was being assumed, I just cut tothe chase and made, whatever way
seemed appropriate for the spaceand the setting made it clear.
I would come out in jobinterviews.
I just was like, I have no timeor patience and I don't want to
work anywhere.
I don't want to be in roomswhere, I'm not valued.
(09:01):
So it's like a two way street.
And I think that's, that's partof what keeps holds people back
is, it's like the thing of Idon't know if you've ever
experienced this, but like whenI was in high school, I had a
girlfriend, we wanted to go topride.
Or a queer bookstore and you'relike what if I see someone I
know and then you realize waitIf I see someone I know They're
also gay, so it's same as goinginto an a meeting You're like,
(09:22):
oh if I see someone I know it'sthey're there as well for the
same reasons.
And it's a safe space for thatreason.
So yeah, I just and then Youknow at this point, I don't
really I don't think I reallyhave to come out so much
anymore.
And part of that is, again, I'mback to what I was saying before
about just societal.
Assumptions if anything, I thinkI have to come out more as like
(09:45):
a lesbian and as a woman Youknow, I think I can get smushed
into the non binary they thembox a lot and i'm like no that's
not me, but it's that's aconversation for another day,
yeah, I think there's More boxesto check, but then sometimes
they're getting limited.
So I do put my she her pronounsin zoom squares for work and for
meetings because, I think it'simportant.
(10:05):
It's an important reminder thatthat's part of, Who I am.
Steve (10:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I definitely can agree withthat.
And I know that part of mydrinking as well was And part of
my coming out experience likegrowing up was that the people
who Were going to be comfortablewith the fact that I was gay got
that I was gay right away Ididn't hide it very well.
(10:29):
I was always called like thisspecial child until I toned it
down So the people who like Ihad to come out to where people
who were like actively lookingat the signs and looking the
other way saying like my parentsor like people like that.
So it was something though thatlike I had, I was told basically
by them at one point that Ilike, I had to hide it, that
behavior would be unacceptable.
So I had to hide this behavior.
(10:50):
And so coming out.
As gay was an experience, but itwas almost easier because so
many other people just knew bydefault.
It was different almost when Idrank because that was something
that I was able to hide.
I could never really hide that Iwas gay.
I was always very flamboyant.
Everyone pretty much like I wastelling people by the time.
That I was like a freshman,sophomore in high school, like
(11:12):
friends, and I was telling like,like extended family and other
friends that, adults andeverything like that, all the
kind of knew by like my junioryear, but it took me until my
30s to even admit to myself thatI was an alcoholic let alone
anyone else, because I was greatat hiding.
The fact that I drank a lotnormally, like how did your
staying in the closet experiencefor your sexuality compared to
(11:33):
your staying in the closet withdrinking experience?
Danielle (11:37):
Oh, I was a late bloomer to alcohol.
And it didn't manifest into amassive problem until much later
in life.
So I've been, I'll have fiveyears, God willing, as they say
in February.
And it was the last couple ofyears before that, that were
really really bad.
(11:58):
So I wouldn't say I was.
I wouldn't say I was in thecloset.
Once I realized I had a problem.
And once I got to the rooms ofAA, I just was out.
Like I just, I shouldn't saythat there was a small window
where I didn't entirely know.
And if anyone wants to go backand find my second podcast,
which is about sobriety andrecovery, I knew I was quitting
(12:19):
drinking.
And I did identify the first AAmeeting I went to which was on
Valentine's Day.
I just love that part of it wasa happenstance, but it's just,
it's so beautiful.
I identified as an alcoholic thevery first meeting I went to.
My therapist went with me andshe was like, oh, I'm surprised
you said that.
And I was like, what's thepoint?
If I'm here.
I'm here, I'm queer, I'm analcoholic, welcome.
(12:40):
And it just, so I identified asan alcoholic the first meeting,
but I still didn't fully know,like what, I knew I was gonna
quit drinking.
I didn't know all this like Iknew there was 12 steps.
It's so goofy I'm, like, I knowit's a 12 step program, but I
didn't realize it was work andall that was ahead of me in
terms of that, but That's wherethe beauty has definitely come
in doing all that work.
But in terms of being out, Ijust, I didn't tell people
(13:03):
immediately that I was analcoholic because there is that
sort of shame based, I trippedover that word a little bit the
first few months, but I did tellpeople, I think it's important
to say for anyone kind of new orstruggling, I did have moments,
I got sober just before thepandemic hit and like that
February, I went to visit myaunt and I told her ahead of
(13:23):
time, Hey, I'm, I'm, At thatpoint, I think I was I'm taking
a break from drinking, but, toset the stage of I'm, you guys
can drink or whatever, but I'mnot going to drink it helped me
keep myself in check and keep mefrom drinking.
Cause I think if I hadn't saidthat and I got there and they
were having a beer with dinner,I would have been like, oh,
cause I was, literally only acouple of weeks.
At that point I wasn't, I hadidentified as an alcoholic at a
(13:44):
meeting, but I wasn't like fullylike.
Knowing exactly where I was, butthat really helped to just get
ahead of that.
So I would say if you're new andstruggling and you get invited
to a function or you're going togo hang out with family, or
you're going to be doinganything where they're usually
you would have drank, I thinkit's great.
If you can tell at least one,you don't have to tell them
they're alcoholic.
You don't have to tell me you'regetting sober, but just Hey, I'm
just taking a break.
(14:05):
I'm probably not going to drinkthat helps you keep yourself
honest with yourself.
And that's really the key to thewhole thing is that self honesty
piece.
Steve (14:13):
Yeah, I definitely agree.
Oftentimes, especially early on,I was so worried with what other
people would think about mydrinking that I was always
mystified when they Didn'treally give too much thought to
it whatsoever.
And I would make this whole bigI'm coming to your party, but I
hope that, like I won't bedrinking.
They're like, okay, good.
Because like when you would comeand you would be drinking, there
(14:34):
goes a whole bottle of likeliquor.
So that's awesome.
I'm glad that you're notdrinking.
Danielle (14:38):
Saves us all a lot.
Steve (14:39):
Exactly.
They're like, And the fact thatyou're not drinking, everyone's
gonna be happier with the factthat you don't just get messy
and then do an Irish goodbyehalfway through the event.
So like everyone was like verysupportive of my family.
Like even before I wanted tomake it public that I was doing
this podcast and interviewingpeople and documenting it.
And before I was out doing allthis, I wanted to, that was more
of like a fear that I wasn'tgoing to make it or that I would
(15:01):
like stumble and not make it tothe 90 days before I wanted to
like, publicly make it, but Idid know that I need to make
sure like my support system knewwhat I was going through.
I was one of those like thatwould drink through the day at
work.
So I made sure like my directsupervisor knew what was going
on with me.
And she really helped me throughit and help cover my ass like
that first week while I wasgoing through some DTs and stuff
(15:22):
like that.
But like the people that neededto know new, and then I did in
time.
Come out.
But I like one thing likewhenever I would come out to
people as gay, no one was reallysurprised when people I did have
people that were very surprisedthat I had been struggling
mostly because they're known forme, like acting so loud out on
(15:43):
social media that they're like,Oh, we didn't think that you had
any secrets because you're soloud.
So the fact that you were alsolike struggling in silence going
through all of that surprised alot of people.
They knew I drank a lot, theyjust didn't know how much or
that it was.
Did you have that experience orwhat was that like as you were
coming out?
Danielle (16:01):
Yeah, I think for me, it definitely surprised a lot of
people because I was not a dailydrinker.
I was not always intoxicated.
I could go out with friends andhave the same two to three
drinks they had.
It was the mental gymnastics ofthe drinking.
It was all the stuff that it wasdoing to my mind.
And I was keeping all of thatvery private.
At the end it wasn't the amountof alcohol or the frequency, I
(16:24):
was not a day drinker.
None of that.
But I was mentally checked outto the point of really suicidal
in my own head.
My closest friends, were verysad to hear how bad it was
mentally after the fact.
I think that was really hard forthem to be they had no idea.
And that's on me because I wasnot sharing that.
(16:46):
And that's part of the disease.
So if you're in that struggle,like that, that checks out.
I think a lot of people weresurprised I even had one
coworker say how do you know itwas the alcohol and a few other
people even in program and I'mlike, at the end of the day, I
don't care.
Steve (17:00):
I'm
Danielle (17:00):
not going to sit here and split hairs because what I
do know is my life is 1 milliontimes better.
Steve (17:07):
Yeah.
Danielle (17:07):
And, I know my own experience.
I know I was completely unhappy,detached from myself, detached
from the people that I love andcare about.
And.
I know that alcohol technicallyquite a terrible drug with one
of the highest addiction ratesof, yes, it's the legal one.
Cannabis is getting there, butit's not great for you.
(17:27):
So I'm not going to sit here andgo back and try it out it's not
worth it.
There's nothing about it that'sworth it.
Yeah, I just forge ahead withthis this feels good.
This feels where I'm supposed tobe.
Steve (17:37):
Yeah.
And after I came out and toldeveryone in my life that I was
sober and people helped me getthrough those first couple of
years, I nowadays have foundthat it's almost flipped where.
Even though I can recover outloud, a lot of times people who
know me professionally,especially will get to before I
had sober in my business name,at least, but I had people who
(17:58):
knew me for a while where theylike realized that I was sober,
but they had never seen me drinklike ever.
And they don't know that versionof me where, when they hear A
story or hear me tell somethingin my podcast or a clip of me
doing something outlandish fromback in the day.
They're like, there's almostlike that kind of reverse
surprise of that they never knewthat version of me.
Do you have any sort ofdifference between people who
(18:18):
find out that you're sober, thatnever knew that side of you
versus people who did know youback then?
Danielle (18:23):
That's a good question.
I think obviously like I have anice crew of friends from aa.
But again, like I don't.
They said the elevator goes allthe way to the bottom, it goes
as far down as you want to takeit.
And I think I'm really gratefulthat I had some, I've definitely
had some drunken excursions, butI don't think I have anything so
outlandish that it, it's notanything that people who I think
(18:46):
can casually recreationallystill drink have done.
I hear some things in meetingsthat I'm like, oh my goodness,
I'm glad I got off the merry goround when I did because, that
those are all the things likethat didn't happen yet.
Steve (18:58):
Yeah, I definitely had a lot of yes, but I also know that
my elevator, like never went upa floor ever.
It was only going down.
Danielle (19:05):
It was a one way ticket for sure.
Steve (19:06):
It was skipping more floors with each timeout.
So it was just, yeah, I'm gladthat has stopped where it is.
So I also know especially aspeople are beginning and they're
very worried what other peoplewill think, we always have these
kind of fantasies in our head ofwhat if this person finds out
and reacts that way?
I know that most like 99 percentof those were all in my head at
(19:27):
the end of the day.
But have you had any experienceswhere someone gave you like a
line of questioning that madeeither you feel uncomfortable or
was maybe them gettinguncomfortable with you're not
drinking?
Danielle (19:39):
I think one friend who has dropped off because they
don't want to be around somebodywho's sober and, there's some
other like weird, this person'sconnected to this person, this,
blah, blah, blah.
But I think at the end of theday, they just, and it's
somebody who, Thanks a lot, andI wish them well and I hope
(19:59):
they're doing okay.
But we never had a full honestconversation about it.
Because it fell off for a wholehost of reasons, but I think
there was definitely an elementof, I think the people that are
also maybe struggling or don'twant to think if they're
struggling are the ones who aremost uncomfortable with being
around sober people.
(20:20):
But for the rest of the folks Ihave a core group of mom friends
that we've been going out onmom's night out since the kids
were in diapers and the kids arenow driving cars and in college.
And, I was at one of theirhouses yesterday, all four of us
were there, they're having anOktoberfest party.
And I'm like, I'm there.
I brought my dog like I'mhanging out and you know what
you realize and you said thislike you think you're so worried
(20:42):
about what everyone else isthinking and then you realize.
No one's thinking about you tobe a jerk, but actually no one
cares because if they have abeer in their hand, they don't
care if there's a beer in yourhand or not, or a seltzer.
Like they're really notconcerned.
I think younger, maybe collegeage kids, there's an element I
didn't I shared this in my firstpodcast.
I didn't drink at all myfreshman year in college because
(21:03):
of my mom's addiction and,issues.
And there was definitely some atthat point come on, aren't you
having fun?
How can you possibly be havingfun?
And now I'm like full circleback to actually, this is the
best
Steve (21:13):
I can
Danielle (21:14):
have fun.
I know I can have fun.
I can be goofy.
I'm goofier than ever.
I can, I can dance.
I can do all of the things thatI thought I needed alcohol to
do.
And then I also feel great thenext day.
Yeah, I don't have to worryabout what I did who I said what
to who I tried to make out withNot to do any of that
Steve (21:33):
Yeah, I loved this past friday night.
I went out with a friend.
It's a leather night at a barand that they You can drink like
a normal person.
So like they had like their oneor two drinks the night that we
were out.
But even then the next morningat kickball, they're like, I
feel so sick.
And I was like, I'm ready to go.
Let's dance.
Let's kick balls.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Because like you don't have toworry about that.
Even like the one or two, whichnever existed for me ever
(21:56):
before.
It was always.
A lot more than that, but Iwould not have been able to play
kickball the next morning ever.
So I love that, we have thisfull, awesome life now, day and
night.
Yes.
And one last thing I wanted totouch on, because oftentimes
like I found, I feel like forboth, we can relate to like our
sexuality.
We're very open about our likedrinking and sobriety where
we're very open about now.
(22:17):
So would you say that you'relike a very open person in
general?
Danielle (22:21):
I think sobriety and recovery has even helped that
because life is short andprecious I keep saying to people
lately, we get one little rideon this little marble and, what
is the point if we're not goingto be open vulnerable and
sharing as human beings, this iswhat we're here for connection.
I just feel so much moreconnected to people.
When I can share myself withthem and be vulnerable the more
(22:44):
I'm vulnerable and open, itinvites in not just about being
gay and not just about recovery,but in general although I will
say part of it is social mediais terrible for this.
People think everyone's having agrand old time.
So I share when I'm maybe nothaving a grand old time.
The beauty of going to 12 stepmeetings is you just feel less
alone.
The more you connect, the moreyou put out your hand, you get
so much more back.
(23:04):
But if you shrivel up and that'swhat we do when we're drinking
and we're ashamed and we'rehiding.
You shrivel up and no one canget in.
No one can connect with you.
I'm just trying to shed themasks, shed the layers I'm about
to be 50 in November, so I'mgoing out.
Steve (23:18):
Excellent.
You are living proof that soberis sexy and fierce.
So much for.
Always being one of my biggestsober heroes and coming back on
the show.
Thanks.
And people watching on the clipscan see you're at DC underscore
and underscore Rosie.
I'll make sure I put that in theshow notes as well.
(23:39):
So y'all can follow Danielle onInstagram there.
It's a closed
Danielle (23:44):
account, but anyone that also follows you, I will
accept.
Steve (23:48):
Sounds good.
Excellent.
Danielle (23:49):
Friends of friends.
Thank
Steve (23:51):
you very much, Danielle.
It's been a pleasure as always.
Always.
And stay tuned listeners for Andlisteners, make sure you follow
us wherever you're listening soyou can get new episodes every
Thursday.
And until then, stay sober.
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