January 30, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode of Gay A: The Queer Sober Hero Show, host Steve is joined by the amazing Holland, who shares his journey to recovery, approach to spirituality, and how sobriety has transformed his life. Holland, who celebrates a sobriety date of February 2, 2022, opens up about growing up in Hawaii and Alaska, their struggles with addiction, and finding their way back to recovery after a series of challenges. Holland also discusses the importance of service, humility, and staying connected to their queer and recovery communities.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Holland’s early years in Hawaii and Alaska and their experience with addiction starting at a young age.
- The challenges of balancing recovery and spirituality and how embracing ambiguity with their higher power has been a game-changer.
- How sobriety has allowed them to process big feelings and lean on tools like therapy, service, and community connection.
- The power of service in recovery, from giving rides to newcomers to being active in the service structure of AA.
- Navigating friendships, relationships, and dating as a queer person in recovery and the importance of setting boundaries and standards.
- Holland’s daily practices for maintaining sobriety, including meditation, gratitude, and embracing humility in their professional and personal life.
- A focus on progress over perfection and the mantra, “Let go, let God,” that keeps them grounded.
Memorable Quotes:
- “Being sober means I get to feel all the big feelings and then rely on tools to not do the crazy next steps.”
- “I never want to be too big to clean up chairs because that’s where I meet future sponsees.”
- “You don’t have to pay back taxes for the person you were. You deserve good things now.”
Resources Mentioned:
- Book: Every Feeling Is Big – A poetry book about heartbreak and relationships in recovery. [Available on Amazon.]
Stay Connected:
Follow us on Instagram @gAyApodcast for updates, behind-the-scenes content, and more.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve (00:00):
Hello there.
(00:00):
Super sober heroes.
Welcome to gay a it's your host,Steve.
And I'm here with 1, 336 dayssober.
And today I am here with theamazing and wonderful Holland.
Welcome to the show.
Hello.
And for those who haven't hadthe pleasure to get to know you
IRL yet, why don't you introduceyourself to everyone?
Holland (00:23):
Yeah.
My name is Holland.
I'm an alcoholic.
I live in St.
Paul, Minnesota.
The beautiful part of the TwinCities is what I say.
It's like where, all the oldhipsters go to retire.
I have a sober date.
It's February 2nd, 2022.
And I'm super excited to behere.
(00:43):
Excellent.
And
Steve (00:44):
speaking of being super excited, what would you say has
you most psyched about beingsober today?
Holland (00:51):
Oh gosh, well, today during therapy, the thing that I
was really excited about was, itsounds really crazy, but, that I
can like, feel all my feelings,and then I have steps.
To kind of help work through myfeelings.
Cause I think that's the coolthing about being sober and
(01:12):
having a little bit of timeunder my belt is like being
sober.
It doesn't mean I have to avoidmy feelings.
I drink to avoid my feelings.
Being sober means I get to feelall the big feelings that I want
to feel and then rely on thefact that like, I have tools
like make sure I don't do thecrazy next steps.
Cause I do a lot of work just tolive next door to crazy.
Steve (01:34):
No.
I hear you on that.
Like, it's wild.
Like, I thought, like, after,like, the urge and desire to
drink stopped, I was like, okay,cool, I don't have to work the
steps as actively every singleday all the time now.
And I'm like, just cause, like,not working them doesn't make,
like, the drinking wanna happen.
Like, it doesn't mean that I'mnormal and stable and not very
unwell if I'm not activelyworking steps.
Like, I get unhinged veryquickly without meetings and
(01:56):
step work and sponsors and being
Holland (01:58):
connected.
Yeah.
No, that's my, I was talking tomy therapist about it and I
wanted to ice pick my neighbor'stires just because I don't like
the way they park.
And she was like, Hmm, what arethe consequences of that?
And I was like, who cares whatthe consequences are?
And she was like, well, what arethe consequences for your
(02:19):
boyfriend who lives with you?
And I went, Oh, well, we'regoing to put like that spin on
it.
I get it.
So I guess like being sobermeans I.
think of others now.
I
Steve (02:30):
hear you
Holland (02:31):
on
Steve (02:31):
that.
Yeah.
Well, what is, would you say isalso your favorite part of being
a member of the queer communitytoday?
Holland (02:39):
Right now I think the, my favorite part about being
part of the queer community islike, especially with where I
work, I do hair for a living.
Knowing that with everythinggoing on in the world right now,
that I'm a place where someonecan go for like 30 minutes for a
haircut and feel safe.
You know, that for the next 30minutes, you can vibe, be
(03:00):
yourself with me, and whatever'sgoing on around us, like, that
is your space to feel safe, andthe fact that I can provide
that, and like, stand insolidarity with a lot of that,
makes me really grateful to be apart of that.
No one has to feel they have togo through any of this alone,
(03:20):
and to be a place for someone toland when, like, everything
seems unsure is nice.
It's nice because we're not justdoing recovery alone, but we
don't have to do any aspects ofour life alone.
Steve (03:33):
Definitely.
All of life is scarier when weare not connected.
But yeah, the more we'reconnected, the better.
So and I'm actually going to bereleasing this like relatively
soon for when we're talking.
So this is going to be verytimely still when it comes out
on Thursday, because it's been arough couple days and weeks.
So with all of that, why don'tyou share a little bit more
about how you got here to whereyou are today.
Holland (03:56):
Yeah, so I grew up in Hawaii and Alaska, so I am not a
typical, what we call, like,continental United States
American and I lived in Hawaiiuntil I was seven, and then I
moved to Alaska when I was Inthe second grade and it was an
experience for sure and myproblem in life has never been
(04:19):
that I never felt like I fit in.
My problem was I never gave ashit about fitting in.
So like I remember when I movedfrom Hawaii to Alaska.
There were all these kids thatwere like, he's weird, he's
wearing shorts.
And it's like you're pastywhite.
Why would I care about anythingyou say?
And that was like kind of theswitch where I was like, Oh God,
(04:42):
like I, all these people likewant someone and like, I'm cool
just like be bopping throughlife by myself.
And I started drinking when Iwas like in fourth grade, and
then that quickly led to onetime I went to this guy's house
when I was like a fifth graderto buy weed, and he was like, I
don't have that, but I got thisstuff.
(05:03):
So I was introduced to alcoholin its many forms pretty
quickly.
And from the time I was like 10to 17, I don't think I really
ever drew a sober breath.
But that wasn't weird where Iwas from.
I like want to emphasize that,like, when I talked to other
people from Alaska who've gottensober, they're like, yeah, like
(05:25):
I get it because everyone wasdoing it.
So while drinking and doingdrugs was really normalized for
me I think the way I did it was.
Insane.
So, you hear, some, like, peoplewho experience drug use, such
as, like, amphetamines, beinglike, Ah, I just really love
(05:45):
doing it, and, having sex with abunch of people, I really like
doing it and stealing boats fromthe Coast Guard.
That was, what I thought was agood time.
And then when I was 17, I usedto love getting in trouble with
the law.
That was my vibe.
If it was, like, Suggested notto do it.
I was all for it.
When I was 17, I was arrestedand this time it was a bad one.
(06:06):
Like we arrested for a lot ofnot great stuff and my lawyer at
the time was like, Hey, like thelast couple of arrests you've
had have been drug and alcoholrelated.
How do you feel about Going totreatment.
I was like, No, I'm like downfor going to prison because when
I was younger, I watched theshow called Oz.
(06:28):
If anyone who's seen Oz knowswhat I'm talking about.
So I thought that prison wasgoing to be like, I go there and
find a hot boyfriend.
Like maybe I get to do some fundrugs.
Like I get in like this reallygreat shape.
If there was drugs and hot guysthere.
I didn't know where to findthem.
All my prison experience was,was I can tell you a lot about
(06:49):
the 2010 NBA playoffs and I knowhow to play spades and I read a
bunch of James Patterson books.
So after a couple months ofdoing that, I decided to like
take them up on this treatmentoffer.
And I went down to Seattle,Washington, went to treatment,
was introduced to AlcoholicsAnonymous through that.
(07:10):
I was sober for about five yearswhen I was 22, it was when I
went back out.
I don't really believe in thiswhole, like, higher power thing,
because if God was real, thisbad thing in sobriety wouldn't
have happened to me.
So then, like, I can sum up thenext six years of my sober life
as, like, I was in recovery,but, like, I couldn't put time
(07:32):
together, because I was tryingto do Alcoholics not without
spirituality.
And what that looked like was Iwas just like a shell of a
person inside the rooms ofrecovery.
So like I knew I couldn't livewithout recovery, but I hated
going to it.
And then finally, like inFebruary of 2022, I got Covid,
(07:56):
but I was living in Iowa, soCovid wasn't real.
And I went to a Walgreens to buyTheraflu.
And the Walgreens employee waslike, Hey, you know, you could
probably buy a bottle ofbrunettes for cheaper, which is
true.
Cause I was buying like sixbottles of Theraflu.
And the next thing I knew I wasdrunk again.
And what was different aboutthis one was it was the first
(08:20):
time that like the elusiveeffects for alcohol for me when
I drank again after my firststint of sobriety was it made
time stop and like I finallyunderstood that like feeling of
being able to catch my breathand like my mind stopped and
time just stood still for like acouple days.
And this time when I drank, Ididn't experience that.
(08:43):
It just, I was just drunk andmiserable, which is a
combination I had neverexperienced before.
And that was not the vibe by anystretch of the imagination.
So I decided to go out toMinnesota, went to a treatment
center up here, and what mymindset was getting sober this
(09:05):
time was having a newexperience.
Like, I'd been in AA at thatpoint, like, 12 years, and I
knew that if I was going to doit, I was gonna have to have a
new experience with AlcoholicsAnonymous, and I was gonna have
a new, have to have a newexperience with God, and I was
gonna have to, like, quit thisattitude of knowing everything.
(09:29):
Because if I knew everything,then why was I one of those
bozos who was in treatmentagain?
That was what started my journeyof getting sober this time, and
it's been great.
Steve (09:40):
I've loved that.
I followed you on social mediafor way longer before we
connected, so I see how you'reliving fabulously and fiercely
sober out loud, and I love that.
What has it been like that'smade it different this time
around in terms of what you doon a day to day practice?
Holland (09:57):
So, the biggest thing that I do different is I really
lean into this idea ofspirituality, but I don't do it
in a way where, I know what Godis supposed to be.
And I know that sounds reallycheesy, but like, I leave that
whole, what is supposed tohappen and like what God is
(10:21):
supposed to be and whateverything's supposed to look
like really ambiguous.
And what I feel like hashappened because of that is I'm
able to kind of go with the flowthat like recovery asks us to
do.
But I never could get into thatbecause I was always so
regimented and planned.
And now I just like lean intothat, like, as long as I'm like,
(10:44):
useful to other people today,then like, whatever's supposed
to happen is supposed to happen.
And so far, I haven't beendispleased with anything that's
happened.
So I haven't really questionedthat.
Steve (10:57):
Yeah, I love that and you are always it sounds like doing
some bit of service as well Whatother types of tips or tricks do
you give people to help keepthem sober, you know, if they're
struggling
Holland (11:11):
so I would say like Getting involved, like, with the
service structure of recovery,whatever program you're working,
there's a whole servicestructure that exists to
maintain that these rooms stillexist.
And that was, like, the biggestthing for me, was getting
involved to, like, make surethat the door was always open
(11:32):
for someone who needed it.
And what that looked like was,like, in the beginning, I gave a
lot of rides to people who wouldfly in to go to the treatment
center I went to.
I'd pick them up from theairport, and then that turned
into me getting involved with,like, our district, and then
leading up into, like, megetting involved with ARIA.
I do a lot with, like, the youngperson scene here, and I just
(11:56):
say yes to making sure that,like, The rooms can stay alive
in whatever way that needs tobe.
And I don't ever go into themindset of like, just because
like I have fancy positions nowin my service life, if I'm at a
meeting and I'm asked to likeclean up chairs, I never say no,
(12:18):
because I don't want to ever betoo big to clean up chairs
because like.
Nine times out of ten, that'swhen I meet my future sponsies.
Cause we like, are talking whilewe're cleaning up chairs.
And I think that just like,being available.
Being available to be of use.
Steve (12:34):
Yeah, I definitely love that, and I love, yeah, you're
never too big for any service.
I'm like, yeah, doing chairs,that's the easy stuff.
I'll do that over the big stuff.
For real.
I'll do that over planning andprogramming and doing all this
any day of the week.
So give me chairs sometimes,yeah.
And with the great thing aboutbeing part of a community and
connecting with more people isthat we build and strengthen
(12:55):
these deeper relationships.
How have your friendshipschanged in your recovery?
Holland (13:01):
So I would say like in the beginning, like I think a
lot about this time when I livedin Iowa.
I hated my time living in Iowa.
The way they did AA there wasn'twrong.
It was just different.
And it was all about likestatus.
You know, and like, here's thething.
(13:22):
I was cool in fucking highschool.
So, like, I don't need to becool in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Like, if I wanted to be popular,again, like, I would just tell
stories from, like, when I waspopular.
But that was not the vibe there.
And what my friendshipsconsisted of was, like, the
status thing.
Like, who's going to the mostmeetings?
Who is the biggest serviceposition?
(13:44):
Who is meeting with theirsponsor the most?
And that just felt reallydisingenuine.
So, what my friendships looklike today is, like, I just
surround myself with people thatI can authentically be myself
around all the time, and, like,they have a space to be
authentically themselves,because, like, nine times out of
ten, those people who are, like,9, 10, 11 years sober.
(14:07):
Those are like my closestfriends in recovery and they're
still crazy.
You know, we never get likeunwound.
And that's like, we just havethese friendships where we can
be authentic about what we'regoing through, as opposed to
putting up that front of like.
Well, I got the wife and I gotthe kids and everything's
perfect.
(14:27):
Like I don't surround myselfwith those people.
I don't throw myself with thepeople that wake up every
morning and levitate to thebathroom to take a piss.
I surround myself with thepeople who are like, I woke up
today and it felt like someoneflipped a switch and I'm insane
and I'm like, I get that feelingbecause they, we give each other
the space.
Steve (14:47):
Yeah, I was gonna say if I had boring friends, like if I
had friends that were not crazy,it'd be so boring.
I don't know whether I'd befriends with them.
So no, I love my batshit crazyfriends.
Holland (14:56):
Yeah, I have a friend from Wisconsin.
Check out her book.
One time she is my queen ofheartbreak who like dates all
the bad guys in AA who turn outto be men in AA.
And one time she, I mean, shewrites poetry to deal with it.
So we were like, turn this intoa poetry book.
(15:19):
So she wrote a book called everyfeeling is big about all the men
in AA.
Who have broken our heart andit's divine.
Steve (15:28):
It's so good.
That sounds awesome.
I'll make sure I link over tothat in the show notes for
people to watch.
Amazon.
Every feeling
Holland (15:36):
is big.
It's great.
Steve (15:38):
Yeah.
Oh, I mean, speaking of dating,what has dating for you been
like in recovery and sobriety?
Holland (15:44):
Oh, gosh.
So when I like, thank God when Ifirst got sober, like when I was
young, because I was 17 when Igot sober the first time, and I
moved to, from Alaska toSeattle, and I knew that I was
like, Attractive, but then beinglike new and then in recovery
(16:08):
being young and also attractive.
It was like when Thanos put inthat last infinity stone and he
was like, I'm infinite.
That was me.
I got it.
I was like, yo, man, buddy.
And Thankfully, I had a sponsorat the time that was like,
actually, like, we're going toteach you how to date.
Like you're allowed to be 17,18, 19 dating, but like, I'm not
(16:30):
going to let you suddenly becomelike the new ho of the rooms.
And that has been the thing thatI've carried.
And throughout my recovery waslike, I am a firm believer of
like.
I'm not one of those people thatare like, Hey, you can't date
someone in Alcoholics Anonymousor Narcotics Anonymous if you're
in it.
I like having a partner who's anAlcoholics Anonymous because
(16:52):
it's such a huge part of my lifethat doing something with
someone who shares the same joyfor it that I have, I find it
really like dumb, but I find itlike really spiritual and
romantic that like we work onthese service projects together
and we get to like, magic, justdoing what we're supposed to be
(17:14):
doing.
And most of my dating life inrecovery is not compromising
what I think I want because Ithink this is what I deserve.
You know, I see so many people,especially gay people, in
recovery who are like, yeah,he's not the greatest, but like,
(17:34):
neither am I.
And I'm like, that's not howthis works.
Like, you have, like, don't sellyourself short because, like,
you think you have to pay, like,back taxes on what a terrible
person you were in the past.
Like, You're a great person now.
Why would you, like, sellyourself short?
The other thing I find reallyhelpful for anyone who's dating
on recovery, a really thoroughsex inventory that creates a
(18:00):
very thorough sex ideal.
So I have a sex ideal that,like, when I started dating, if
people didn't match it, I wasn'tgonna try to force these puzzle
pieces to fit.
Like if I had something thatlike I knew wasn't going to work
for me and they'd be like, Ooh,but I'm really into this.
It's like, well, then we're justnot going, I'm not going to
(18:21):
waste a bunch of time trying tomake this fit because and that's
okay that it doesn't.
Steve (18:27):
Yeah, I agree.
I think that that's beendefinitely hard to for like me
to learn and talk about andpeople with people in recovery
is like, it's okay if wedisagree, like both.
With romantic things, in thebedroom things, as well as in
relationships, day to day stuff,it's like, I can meet people
that I don't vibe with, and thatdoesn't mean that they're bad
people, or that I'm bad people,but it's just that we just don't
(18:47):
vibe together, and I feel likethat's something that you can,
like, I learned almost, like, inthe bedroom at first, and I was
able to kind of take it out ofthe bedroom, and be like, wow,
this applies to real people inrelationships, too.
Yeah, yeah.
And speaking of that, how wouldyou say you're able to apply
your program into your dailylife, like outside of recovery,
(19:09):
but do you ever think of like, Irecently had like the eye
opening experience at like awork experience for a week where
someone was like talking abouthow to run their business and I
was like, Oh, it's like one dayat a time.
I think I hear that sometimessome other places of like kind
of the way that I like buildingmy business, like you take it
one day at a time.
Like, do you have moments likethat where you apply things from
the program into outside programthings?
(19:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Holland (19:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things that like
the program I'm working a lotright now and like six and seven
and my personal life.
So the humility steps and twoparts of that that I really
appreciate is like, I run my ownbusiness by doing hair, you
know, and I've had to learn.
(19:53):
I used to get really in thismindset that like my time was
the most important.
Like my time is my money.
Like you're like working off mytime.
And learning that like thehumility of like, well, my time
isn't the most important.
So like when people have to likereschedule or they're running
late, I don't get frustrated.
And I like recognize that like,The humility of, like, knowing
(20:16):
that I'm not, just because I'mproviding a service does not
mean I'm the most importantperson in this, like, business
transaction, becauserealistically, like, I wouldn't
have a business if you didn'tpay me.
And the other thing too is,like, when things are going on
around me with, like, mycoworkers, my boyfriend, you
know, people like that howpersonal am I going to take the
(20:36):
human experience?
Like, how am I, like, they couldbe upset about something, and
it's my choice.
If I want to take it personally,or if I, like, have the humility
to be able to recognize that,like, this isn't about me.
You know, when my sponsors areupset, and they're, like, biting
my head off, like, it's notbecause they hate me as a
(20:58):
sponsor.
It's because they have their ownstuff going on.
So it's, like, up to me if Iwant to, like, think that I'm so
important that this wholeattitude that they have is
directed towards me because ofme, or if it's just, like, It's
just their attitude right now.
And I think that's been really,really helpful is that idea of
like, I'm not that importantthat people are taking out, like
(21:21):
everything that's going wrong ismy fault.
Steve (21:24):
Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense.
And as you're talking aboutthat, I'm like, that's why my
sponsor has me living in six andseven for a while right now, as
I'm going through some certainthings.
He's like, why don't you staythere for a little bit before we
move on?
So like, good idea.
Excellent.
And out of all your time in therooms, we hear all these
different phrases.
Do you have a favorite mantra orquote that you live by or love?
Holland (21:50):
Not, like, not really.
I, like, they still, all those,like, cheesy sayings, really,
sometimes, just, like, sometimessomeone will say them to me, and
you can tell it's the first timethey've ever heard it, and they
think it's, like, you know,Gandhi speaking, and they say it
to me, I'm like, I just want tosmack the dog shit out of you
(22:11):
for telling me that.
But the one that, like,realistically, that I, like,
stay under my breath a lot islike, let go, let God.
Steve (22:21):
Mm hmm.
Holland (22:21):
Like, if I have one that is just, like, constantly,
like, in my head, it's like,when because I get irritated
real easy.
Like, the wind decides to blowwest instead of east, and I'm
like, yo, that shit's pissing meoff.
And it's like, just let go, letGod.
And that helps.
It, like, brings me back intothe reality of, like, This has
nothing to do with me.
(22:42):
Like, why am I so upset andtaking this thing that has
literally no control over, like,why am I taking it so
personally?
Yeah,
Steve (22:52):
it's a, it's a conscious effort that I understand that
sometimes that's not somethinglike people have to work
towards, but I get that same waywhere something happens and I'm
just like, my gut reaction ischaos and then I have to kind of
criss correct.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime.
I am sure this is the first ofmany episodes having you on as a
guest.
So welcome to the GA family.
(23:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was such a treat.
Yes.
And thank you listeners fortuning into another episode.
Make sure you're following uswherever you listen, as well as
on the socials at GA podcast.
And until next time, stay sober.
Hello there.
(00:00):
Super sober heroes.
Welcome to gay a it's your host,Steve.
And I'm here with 1, 336 dayssober.
And today I am here with theamazing and wonderful Holland.
Welcome to the show.
Hello.
And for those who haven't hadthe pleasure to get to know you
IRL yet, why don't you introduceyourself to everyone?
Holland (00:23):
Yeah.
My name is Holland.
I'm an alcoholic.
I live in St.
Paul, Minnesota.
The beautiful part of the TwinCities is what I say.
It's like where, all the oldhipsters go to retire.
I have a sober date.
It's February 2nd, 2022.
And I'm super excited to behere.
(00:43):
Excellent.
And
Steve (00:44):
speaking of being super excited, what would you say has
you most psyched about beingsober today?
Holland (00:51):
Oh gosh, well, today during therapy, the thing that I
was really excited about was, itsounds really crazy, but, that I
can like, feel all my feelings,and then I have steps.
To kind of help work through myfeelings.
Cause I think that's the coolthing about being sober and
(01:12):
having a little bit of timeunder my belt is like being
sober.
It doesn't mean I have to avoidmy feelings.
I drink to avoid my feelings.
Being sober means I get to feelall the big feelings that I want
to feel and then rely on thefact that like, I have tools
like make sure I don't do thecrazy next steps.
Cause I do a lot of work just tolive next door to crazy.
Steve (01:34):
No.
I hear you on that.
Like, it's wild.
Like, I thought, like, after,like, the urge and desire to
drink stopped, I was like, okay,cool, I don't have to work the
steps as actively every singleday all the time now.
And I'm like, just cause, like,not working them doesn't make,
like, the drinking wanna happen.
Like, it doesn't mean that I'mnormal and stable and not very
unwell if I'm not activelyworking steps.
Like, I get unhinged veryquickly without meetings and
(01:56):
step work and sponsors and being
Holland (01:58):
connected.
Yeah.
No, that's my, I was talking tomy therapist about it and I
wanted to ice pick my neighbor'stires just because I don't like
the way they park.
And she was like, Hmm, what arethe consequences of that?
And I was like, who cares whatthe consequences are?
And she was like, well, what arethe consequences for your
(02:19):
boyfriend who lives with you?
And I went, Oh, well, we'regoing to put like that spin on
it.
I get it.
So I guess like being sobermeans I.
think of others now.
I
Steve (02:30):
hear you
Holland (02:31):
on
Steve (02:31):
that.
Yeah.
Well, what is, would you say isalso your favorite part of being
a member of the queer communitytoday?
Holland (02:39):
Right now I think the, my favorite part about being
part of the queer community islike, especially with where I
work, I do hair for a living.
Knowing that with everythinggoing on in the world right now,
that I'm a place where someonecan go for like 30 minutes for a
haircut and feel safe.
You know, that for the next 30minutes, you can vibe, be
(03:00):
yourself with me, and whatever'sgoing on around us, like, that
is your space to feel safe, andthe fact that I can provide
that, and like, stand insolidarity with a lot of that,
makes me really grateful to be apart of that.
No one has to feel they have togo through any of this alone,
(03:20):
and to be a place for someone toland when, like, everything
seems unsure is nice.
It's nice because we're not justdoing recovery alone, but we
don't have to do any aspects ofour life alone.
Steve (03:33):
Definitely.
All of life is scarier when weare not connected.
But yeah, the more we'reconnected, the better.
So and I'm actually going to bereleasing this like relatively
soon for when we're talking.
So this is going to be verytimely still when it comes out
on Thursday, because it's been arough couple days and weeks.
So with all of that, why don'tyou share a little bit more
about how you got here to whereyou are today.
Holland (03:56):
Yeah, so I grew up in Hawaii and Alaska, so I am not a
typical, what we call, like,continental United States
American and I lived in Hawaiiuntil I was seven, and then I
moved to Alaska when I was Inthe second grade and it was an
experience for sure and myproblem in life has never been
(04:19):
that I never felt like I fit in.
My problem was I never gave ashit about fitting in.
So like I remember when I movedfrom Hawaii to Alaska.
There were all these kids thatwere like, he's weird, he's
wearing shorts.
And it's like you're pastywhite.
Why would I care about anythingyou say?
And that was like kind of theswitch where I was like, Oh God,
(04:42):
like I, all these people likewant someone and like, I'm cool
just like be bopping throughlife by myself.
And I started drinking when Iwas like in fourth grade, and
then that quickly led to onetime I went to this guy's house
when I was like a fifth graderto buy weed, and he was like, I
don't have that, but I got thisstuff.
(05:03):
So I was introduced to alcoholin its many forms pretty
quickly.
And from the time I was like 10to 17, I don't think I really
ever drew a sober breath.
But that wasn't weird where Iwas from.
I like want to emphasize that,like, when I talked to other
people from Alaska who've gottensober, they're like, yeah, like
(05:25):
I get it because everyone wasdoing it.
So while drinking and doingdrugs was really normalized for
me I think the way I did it was.
Insane.
So, you hear, some, like, peoplewho experience drug use, such
as, like, amphetamines, beinglike, Ah, I just really love
(05:45):
doing it, and, having sex with abunch of people, I really like
doing it and stealing boats fromthe Coast Guard.
That was, what I thought was agood time.
And then when I was 17, I usedto love getting in trouble with
the law.
That was my vibe.
If it was, like, Suggested notto do it.
I was all for it.
When I was 17, I was arrestedand this time it was a bad one.
(06:06):
Like we arrested for a lot ofnot great stuff and my lawyer at
the time was like, Hey, like thelast couple of arrests you've
had have been drug and alcoholrelated.
How do you feel about Going totreatment.
I was like, No, I'm like downfor going to prison because when
I was younger, I watched theshow called Oz.
(06:28):
If anyone who's seen Oz knowswhat I'm talking about.
So I thought that prison wasgoing to be like, I go there and
find a hot boyfriend.
Like maybe I get to do some fundrugs.
Like I get in like this reallygreat shape.
If there was drugs and hot guysthere.
I didn't know where to findthem.
All my prison experience was,was I can tell you a lot about
(06:49):
the 2010 NBA playoffs and I knowhow to play spades and I read a
bunch of James Patterson books.
So after a couple months ofdoing that, I decided to like
take them up on this treatmentoffer.
And I went down to Seattle,Washington, went to treatment,
was introduced to AlcoholicsAnonymous through that.
(07:10):
I was sober for about five yearswhen I was 22, it was when I
went back out.
I don't really believe in thiswhole, like, higher power thing,
because if God was real, thisbad thing in sobriety wouldn't
have happened to me.
So then, like, I can sum up thenext six years of my sober life
as, like, I was in recovery,but, like, I couldn't put time
(07:32):
together, because I was tryingto do Alcoholics not without
spirituality.
And what that looked like was Iwas just like a shell of a
person inside the rooms ofrecovery.
So like I knew I couldn't livewithout recovery, but I hated
going to it.
And then finally, like inFebruary of 2022, I got Covid,
(07:56):
but I was living in Iowa, soCovid wasn't real.
And I went to a Walgreens to buyTheraflu.
And the Walgreens employee waslike, Hey, you know, you could
probably buy a bottle ofbrunettes for cheaper, which is
true.
Cause I was buying like sixbottles of Theraflu.
And the next thing I knew I wasdrunk again.
And what was different aboutthis one was it was the first
(08:20):
time that like the elusiveeffects for alcohol for me when
I drank again after my firststint of sobriety was it made
time stop and like I finallyunderstood that like feeling of
being able to catch my breathand like my mind stopped and
time just stood still for like acouple days.
And this time when I drank, Ididn't experience that.
(08:43):
It just, I was just drunk andmiserable, which is a
combination I had neverexperienced before.
And that was not the vibe by anystretch of the imagination.
So I decided to go out toMinnesota, went to a treatment
center up here, and what mymindset was getting sober this
(09:05):
time was having a newexperience.
Like, I'd been in AA at thatpoint, like, 12 years, and I
knew that if I was going to doit, I was gonna have to have a
new experience with AlcoholicsAnonymous, and I was gonna have
a new, have to have a newexperience with God, and I was
gonna have to, like, quit thisattitude of knowing everything.
(09:29):
Because if I knew everything,then why was I one of those
bozos who was in treatmentagain?
That was what started my journeyof getting sober this time, and
it's been great.
Steve (09:40):
I've loved that.
I followed you on social mediafor way longer before we
connected, so I see how you'reliving fabulously and fiercely
sober out loud, and I love that.
What has it been like that'smade it different this time
around in terms of what you doon a day to day practice?
Holland (09:57):
So, the biggest thing that I do different is I really
lean into this idea ofspirituality, but I don't do it
in a way where, I know what Godis supposed to be.
And I know that sounds reallycheesy, but like, I leave that
whole, what is supposed tohappen and like what God is
(10:21):
supposed to be and whateverything's supposed to look
like really ambiguous.
And what I feel like hashappened because of that is I'm
able to kind of go with the flowthat like recovery asks us to
do.
But I never could get into thatbecause I was always so
regimented and planned.
And now I just like lean intothat, like, as long as I'm like,
(10:44):
useful to other people today,then like, whatever's supposed
to happen is supposed to happen.
And so far, I haven't beendispleased with anything that's
happened.
So I haven't really questionedthat.
Steve (10:57):
Yeah, I love that and you are always it sounds like doing
some bit of service as well Whatother types of tips or tricks do
you give people to help keepthem sober, you know, if they're
struggling
Holland (11:11):
so I would say like Getting involved, like, with the
service structure of recovery,whatever program you're working,
there's a whole servicestructure that exists to
maintain that these rooms stillexist.
And that was, like, the biggestthing for me, was getting
involved to, like, make surethat the door was always open
(11:32):
for someone who needed it.
And what that looked like was,like, in the beginning, I gave a
lot of rides to people who wouldfly in to go to the treatment
center I went to.
I'd pick them up from theairport, and then that turned
into me getting involved with,like, our district, and then
leading up into, like, megetting involved with ARIA.
I do a lot with, like, the youngperson scene here, and I just
(11:56):
say yes to making sure that,like, The rooms can stay alive
in whatever way that needs tobe.
And I don't ever go into themindset of like, just because
like I have fancy positions nowin my service life, if I'm at a
meeting and I'm asked to likeclean up chairs, I never say no,
(12:18):
because I don't want to ever betoo big to clean up chairs
because like.
Nine times out of ten, that'swhen I meet my future sponsies.
Cause we like, are talking whilewe're cleaning up chairs.
And I think that just like,being available.
Being available to be of use.
Steve (12:34):
Yeah, I definitely love that, and I love, yeah, you're
never too big for any service.
I'm like, yeah, doing chairs,that's the easy stuff.
I'll do that over the big stuff.
For real.
I'll do that over planning andprogramming and doing all this
any day of the week.
So give me chairs sometimes,yeah.
And with the great thing aboutbeing part of a community and
connecting with more people isthat we build and strengthen
(12:55):
these deeper relationships.
How have your friendshipschanged in your recovery?
Holland (13:01):
So I would say like in the beginning, like I think a
lot about this time when I livedin Iowa.
I hated my time living in Iowa.
The way they did AA there wasn'twrong.
It was just different.
And it was all about likestatus.
You know, and like, here's thething.
(13:22):
I was cool in fucking highschool.
So, like, I don't need to becool in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Like, if I wanted to be popular,again, like, I would just tell
stories from, like, when I waspopular.
But that was not the vibe there.
And what my friendshipsconsisted of was, like, the
status thing.
Like, who's going to the mostmeetings?
Who is the biggest serviceposition?
(13:44):
Who is meeting with theirsponsor the most?
And that just felt reallydisingenuine.
So, what my friendships looklike today is, like, I just
surround myself with people thatI can authentically be myself
around all the time, and, like,they have a space to be
authentically themselves,because, like, nine times out of
ten, those people who are, like,9, 10, 11 years sober.
(14:07):
Those are like my closestfriends in recovery and they're
still crazy.
You know, we never get likeunwound.
And that's like, we just havethese friendships where we can
be authentic about what we'regoing through, as opposed to
putting up that front of like.
Well, I got the wife and I gotthe kids and everything's
perfect.
(14:27):
Like I don't surround myselfwith those people.
I don't throw myself with thepeople that wake up every
morning and levitate to thebathroom to take a piss.
I surround myself with thepeople who are like, I woke up
today and it felt like someoneflipped a switch and I'm insane
and I'm like, I get that feelingbecause they, we give each other
the space.
Steve (14:47):
Yeah, I was gonna say if I had boring friends, like if I
had friends that were not crazy,it'd be so boring.
I don't know whether I'd befriends with them.
So no, I love my batshit crazyfriends.
Holland (14:56):
Yeah, I have a friend from Wisconsin.
Check out her book.
One time she is my queen ofheartbreak who like dates all
the bad guys in AA who turn outto be men in AA.
And one time she, I mean, shewrites poetry to deal with it.
So we were like, turn this intoa poetry book.
(15:19):
So she wrote a book called everyfeeling is big about all the men
in AA.
Who have broken our heart andit's divine.
Steve (15:28):
It's so good.
That sounds awesome.
I'll make sure I link over tothat in the show notes for
people to watch.
Amazon.
Every feeling
Holland (15:36):
is big.
It's great.
Steve (15:38):
Yeah.
Oh, I mean, speaking of dating,what has dating for you been
like in recovery and sobriety?
Holland (15:44):
Oh, gosh.
So when I like, thank God when Ifirst got sober, like when I was
young, because I was 17 when Igot sober the first time, and I
moved to, from Alaska toSeattle, and I knew that I was
like, Attractive, but then beinglike new and then in recovery
(16:08):
being young and also attractive.
It was like when Thanos put inthat last infinity stone and he
was like, I'm infinite.
That was me.
I got it.
I was like, yo, man, buddy.
And Thankfully, I had a sponsorat the time that was like,
actually, like, we're going toteach you how to date.
Like you're allowed to be 17,18, 19 dating, but like, I'm not
(16:30):
going to let you suddenly becomelike the new ho of the rooms.
And that has been the thing thatI've carried.
And throughout my recovery waslike, I am a firm believer of
like.
I'm not one of those people thatare like, Hey, you can't date
someone in Alcoholics Anonymousor Narcotics Anonymous if you're
in it.
I like having a partner who's anAlcoholics Anonymous because
(16:52):
it's such a huge part of my lifethat doing something with
someone who shares the same joyfor it that I have, I find it
really like dumb, but I find itlike really spiritual and
romantic that like we work onthese service projects together
and we get to like, magic, justdoing what we're supposed to be
(17:14):
doing.
And most of my dating life inrecovery is not compromising
what I think I want because Ithink this is what I deserve.
You know, I see so many people,especially gay people, in
recovery who are like, yeah,he's not the greatest, but like,
(17:34):
neither am I.
And I'm like, that's not howthis works.
Like, you have, like, don't sellyourself short because, like,
you think you have to pay, like,back taxes on what a terrible
person you were in the past.
Like, You're a great person now.
Why would you, like, sellyourself short?
The other thing I find reallyhelpful for anyone who's dating
on recovery, a really thoroughsex inventory that creates a
(18:00):
very thorough sex ideal.
So I have a sex ideal that,like, when I started dating, if
people didn't match it, I wasn'tgonna try to force these puzzle
pieces to fit.
Like if I had something thatlike I knew wasn't going to work
for me and they'd be like, Ooh,but I'm really into this.
It's like, well, then we're justnot going, I'm not going to
(18:21):
waste a bunch of time trying tomake this fit because and that's
okay that it doesn't.
Steve (18:27):
Yeah, I agree.
I think that that's beendefinitely hard to for like me
to learn and talk about andpeople with people in recovery
is like, it's okay if wedisagree, like both.
With romantic things, in thebedroom things, as well as in
relationships, day to day stuff,it's like, I can meet people
that I don't vibe with, and thatdoesn't mean that they're bad
people, or that I'm bad people,but it's just that we just don't
(18:47):
vibe together, and I feel likethat's something that you can,
like, I learned almost, like, inthe bedroom at first, and I was
able to kind of take it out ofthe bedroom, and be like, wow,
this applies to real people inrelationships, too.
Yeah, yeah.
And speaking of that, how wouldyou say you're able to apply
your program into your dailylife, like outside of recovery,
(19:09):
but do you ever think of like, Irecently had like the eye
opening experience at like awork experience for a week where
someone was like talking abouthow to run their business and I
was like, Oh, it's like one dayat a time.
I think I hear that sometimessome other places of like kind
of the way that I like buildingmy business, like you take it
one day at a time.
Like, do you have moments likethat where you apply things from
the program into outside programthings?
(19:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Holland (19:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things that like
the program I'm working a lotright now and like six and seven
and my personal life.
So the humility steps and twoparts of that that I really
appreciate is like, I run my ownbusiness by doing hair, you
know, and I've had to learn.
(19:53):
I used to get really in thismindset that like my time was
the most important.
Like my time is my money.
Like you're like working off mytime.
And learning that like thehumility of like, well, my time
isn't the most important.
So like when people have to likereschedule or they're running
late, I don't get frustrated.
And I like recognize that like,The humility of, like, knowing
(20:16):
that I'm not, just because I'mproviding a service does not
mean I'm the most importantperson in this, like, business
transaction, becauserealistically, like, I wouldn't
have a business if you didn'tpay me.
And the other thing too is,like, when things are going on
around me with, like, mycoworkers, my boyfriend, you
know, people like that howpersonal am I going to take the
(20:36):
human experience?
Like, how am I, like, they couldbe upset about something, and
it's my choice.
If I want to take it personally,or if I, like, have the humility
to be able to recognize that,like, this isn't about me.
You know, when my sponsors areupset, and they're, like, biting
my head off, like, it's notbecause they hate me as a
(20:58):
sponsor.
It's because they have their ownstuff going on.
So it's, like, up to me if Iwant to, like, think that I'm so
important that this wholeattitude that they have is
directed towards me because ofme, or if it's just, like, It's
just their attitude right now.
And I think that's been really,really helpful is that idea of
like, I'm not that importantthat people are taking out, like
(21:21):
everything that's going wrong ismy fault.
Steve (21:24):
Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense.
And as you're talking aboutthat, I'm like, that's why my
sponsor has me living in six andseven for a while right now, as
I'm going through some certainthings.
He's like, why don't you staythere for a little bit before we
move on?
So like, good idea.
Excellent.
And out of all your time in therooms, we hear all these
different phrases.
Do you have a favorite mantra orquote that you live by or love?
Holland (21:50):
Not, like, not really.
I, like, they still, all those,like, cheesy sayings, really,
sometimes, just, like, sometimessomeone will say them to me, and
you can tell it's the first timethey've ever heard it, and they
think it's, like, you know,Gandhi speaking, and they say it
to me, I'm like, I just want tosmack the dog shit out of you
(22:11):
for telling me that.
But the one that, like,realistically, that I, like,
stay under my breath a lot islike, let go, let God.
Steve (22:21):
Mm hmm.
Holland (22:21):
Like, if I have one that is just, like, constantly,
like, in my head, it's like,when because I get irritated
real easy.
Like, the wind decides to blowwest instead of east, and I'm
like, yo, that shit's pissing meoff.
And it's like, just let go, letGod.
And that helps.
It, like, brings me back intothe reality of, like, This has
nothing to do with me.
(22:42):
Like, why am I so upset andtaking this thing that has
literally no control over, like,why am I taking it so
personally?
Yeah,
Steve (22:52):
it's a, it's a conscious effort that I understand that
sometimes that's not somethinglike people have to work
towards, but I get that same waywhere something happens and I'm
just like, my gut reaction ischaos and then I have to kind of
criss correct.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime.
I am sure this is the first ofmany episodes having you on as a
guest.
So welcome to the GA family.
(23:15):
Thank you so much for having me.
It was such a treat.
Yes.
And thank you listeners fortuning into another episode.
Make sure you're following uswherever you listen, as well as
on the socials at GA podcast.
And until next time, stay sober.
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