November 28, 2024 • 24 mins
Sober Steve is joined by Ralf Rasmussen, host of RealClearFetish! Talks RealClearPlay!
Ralf shares his journey from addiction to seven years of sobriety, delving into the challenges and triumphs of navigating the intersection of recovery, kink, and queer identity.
We discuss:
🌈 The power of embracing authentic queer identity in sobriety.
🖤 Ralf’s journey through addiction, recovery, and reclaiming his kink life without substances.
🎤 How creating a podcast and a sober kink community became pillars of his recovery.
💡 Insights on navigating mental health and ADHD in recovery.
Whether you’re curious about sober kink, need inspiration for your recovery journey, or want to hear from someone living their truth, this episode is packed with wisdom, humor, and hope.
Guest Info:
Find Ralf’s podcast, Real Clear Fetish Talks, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.
Follow him on social media @realclearfetish or email at realclearfetish@gmail.com.
What’s Next?
Hit play to hear Ralf’s inspiring journey! Don’t forget to follow gAy A for weekly episodes, and leave a review to help other sober queer heroes find us.
#GayAPodcast #QueerSobriety #SoberKink #RecoveryJourney #RealClearFetish #LGBTQRecovery #SoberHeroes
Photo of Ralf by @joshidotphoto
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve (00:01):
Hey there, Super Sober Heroes.
It's your host, Sober Steve, thepodcast guy.
Welcome to Gay A.
I am here with 1, 279 Days Soberand here with my new friend,
Ralph, from The Real ClearFetish.
Hello! Yes, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Listeners who follow the podcastof mine got a chance to hear me
(00:24):
on your show last week, both onmy feed as well as on your show.
But for those who might be justtuning in or want to know more
about you, why don't youintroduce yourself?
Ralf (00:33):
My name is Ralph.
I live in London, UK.
Originally from Denmark.
Glorified Viking for anyonelistening, you won't be able to
see it, but if you're watchingthis clip, you can see I have a
slight ginger beard.
So I'm definitely of thatorigin.
I'm seven years and a bit soberfrom all drugs.
Yeah I run like you justmentioned, I run a podcast
(00:57):
dealing with kink, anythingkinky and anything sober and
everything in between.
Which kind of started from mesetting up a sober kink group on
Facebook and it just grew fromthere.
In my spare time I sing with theLondon Gay Men's Chorus.
I work in local government andyeah happily single or unhappily
(01:22):
single.
I don't know.
Steve (01:24):
Depends on the day.
Ralf (01:25):
It depends on the day.
Steve (01:26):
Yes.
Sounds like you were living avery full, happy, sober life.
That is excellent.
And yeah, I definitely.
I love that.
I have guests on all the timethat share all sorts of
experiences, but the ones thatpeople always remember are the
sex related episodes or the sexrelated conversations.
So I'm sure people will love tohear about what you're doing
today.
But before we jump into that,why don't you share what your
(01:47):
favorite part of being a memberof the queer community or gay
community is today?
Ralf (01:52):
Just so you can be authentically yourself.
I was about to say withoutjudgment, but that's not true
because there is definitelyjudgment from certain areas of
the community.
That's for sure.
But I think.
At least like growing up when Icame out at 18.
So a couple of years back no,I'm, I turned 40 in October.
(02:13):
So I can't get away from thatone.
But it's the process of becomingwhere you want to be.
How you want to present theworld and it definitely took me
a while where I went from Ragingtwink with tank tops and
bleached hair to now Full blownleather man and just being
really happy in my own skin forthe most part So it's all a
(02:36):
development and I just love thefact that it is such a big
melting pot of different typesof experiences and styles and
gender expressions and I loveall that.
And that's also one of thethings being in the London Gay
Men's Chorus where we're 200members, but it's just 200
members of differentexperiences.
(02:57):
So I get to interact with notjust leather men in my life.
But from all sorts of areas ofthe queer community.
Steve (03:05):
Yeah, I definitely love how diverse our community is and
just how we don't have to followa lot of the social norms that
are placed on a lot of the more,people that fit in.
So I love that.
And what would you say is yourfavorite part of being sober
today?
Ralf (03:22):
Being able to handle stuff.
This year has been a bit tryingI wouldn't say it's been
dramatic.
I know other people have morechallenging years than I've had,
but it's.
I've moved house once this yearand I now have to move house
again next year due to the houseI'm in being evicted from here.
(03:42):
But actually just having thecapacity to handle these things.
Where before, when I was stillusing, I was reactive, I would
react with relapsing, or usingto get away from these feelings,
where now, I won't lie, it islike when the whole news about
(04:03):
it.
Being evicted from this houseand so on.
Did I feel like a drink?
Absolutely fucking I also sosecure in my recovery that I can
vocalize that and go, do youknow what I could really do with
a drink?
But I talk to people about itand take the power away from it.
I think it's about just beinghonest with where your head
(04:25):
goes.
And when things get stressful,that is where it gets tricky
sometimes in recovery.
It's not about perfection, it'sjust about accountability and
being honest about where you'reat.
So I just love being sober.
Not all the time, but most ofthe time.
Steve (04:44):
Yeah, I can definitely relate.
I know that even my hardest dayssober have been easier in the
end than a lot of my days when Iwas in my active addiction.
Because I was like you, reactingto everything.
I'd wake up and have no ideawhat the day was going to hold.
I was on defense the entire day,now I'm able to start my day,
not hungover, so I'm able to beclear headed, and, take my
(05:05):
moment to center myself I'm ableto act through the day rather
than react, and still playthings by ear without having to
be like, Oh no, the world'sover, and my day's ruined, and
everything's garbage, why don'tyou share a little bit about how
you got to where you are todaywith your drinking and
addiction?
Ralf (05:20):
Like any little gay boy who moves to London, you want to
try new stuff when you movehere.
And I moved to here when I was24 and Drug taking was quite new
to me.
It was not something I'd everdone when I lived in Denmark.
It's not really a big thing inthe small country of Denmark.
There is drug taking there, butI was very much against it.
(05:42):
I grew up in a house where Idealt with domestic abuse and
alcoholism, primarily from mymom's partners, over the years.
So I always had this of theirweak willed that.
I don't want to do that.
I had a very funny relationshipwith alcohol, but I would always
(06:03):
drink to excess.
That's for sure.
I never drank to enjoy.
I drank to get drunk.
I don't categorize myself as analcoholic.
Alcohol will always lead me toother things.
So that's one of the reasons Ichoose not to drink.
But when I moved here, it wasaround the time grinder became a
(06:23):
thing so it slowly started withparty drugs and weekends and
that was fun I didn't really seean issue with that.
But with grinder came easyaccess Because you had chill
outs it was almost like pickingfrom a ala card menu of people
you could go to just oh Theyhave this so we go there.
(06:44):
They have that I go there so Istill have, one Christmas I was
given a battery pack for myphone, which is massive.
I would use that at a weekend tojump from house to house,
because then my phone wouldn'tdie.
I didn't see there was anyproblem in that, I thought, no,
that's what you do.
(07:05):
And that stood on for quite awhile, and then I wasn't with
the partners I'd moved over forat the time.
I moved in by myself in 2016 andall of a sudden, all the safety
wheels were off.
I could do what I wanted to do.
And I remember because it, Thedrug taking had been an issue
(07:28):
for a while at that point, butnot to an extent where it didn't
affect my job.
It was just more maybe affectingthe people around me and they
could tell something was notquite right.
So when I moved in by myself,one of my friends went, Don't go
overboard.
You know how this goes.
And I was like yeah, it'll befine, blah, blah, blah.
(07:49):
Fast forward eight months later,I had my first drug psychosis in
my flat after a four, five daybender after my birthday.
And I think that was I'd beentrying other stuff up until
that, like harm reduction, andmanaging, and making notes on
how much I was taking, on whichdays, I was even noting down how
(08:12):
much unprotective sex I'd had,just to keep a log of what was
going on.
And that seemed to sometimeswork cause like take it into
like perspectives, like I tookthis many ecstasy pills.
I did this many lines, so on andso forth.
But it also built on the shamearound it.
Absolutely.
So when I had this drugpsychosis.
(08:35):
That scared the shit out of me.
It was also the way my mom foundout because I was talking to her
on the phone in my psychosis, soit was messy.
I ended up in hospital.
They just made sure I didn't geta heart attack and I was sent to
home and that triggered mecontacting someone from my
chorus to who I knew was inrecovery.
(08:58):
And he took me to my first N.
A.
meeting and my first C.
M.
A.
meeting.
And I went to meetings for maybethe first year and a half.
Up until, yeah, year and a halfto two years I used the 12 step
meetings.
And it was a great stability.
There was a couple of stumblesafter that, absolutely.
(09:21):
But I've been sober sinceSeptember 17 now 2017.
And now I just use my energy tohost my own podcast about
sobriety and also being kinkybecause chem sex is definitely
my story and trying to get yoursex life back after it's been
(09:42):
intertwined with drugs.
is fucking hard.
Am I allowed to swear on thispodcast?
Steve (09:48):
Fuck yes, you can.
Ralf (09:50):
Good.
Good.
So it, that took a while.
And that was a part of myrecovery, but also what was part
of my recovery is also beingtold.
I cannot do this again.
I'm not allowed to do a fetishbecause it would be too
triggering for the rest of mylife by other people in recovery
and I was No, i'm not havingthat.
(10:11):
I love my fetish life.
I love the kinky stuff I get upto but it took a while to
relearn it and now I'm enjoyinga sober, kinky leather, rubber,
whatever gear people are in lifeand I'm, can't be more happy.
Sometimes it can be tricky whenyou go out in clubs and bars and
(10:34):
you just see people who canrelax and be themselves and so
on, where I sometimes canstruggle socially.
And that, that can be trickysometimes, but for most of the
time I'm okay, and I'm good atHolding myself accountable or
just saying, okay, this is notworking, then I can just leave.
Steve (10:53):
I can definitely relate to that.
People think because I appearvery outgoing on social media
that like, in person, at like aclub or an event or a bar in the
same way, it's like I can bevery shy at first until I warm
up or get going.
Ralf (11:05):
It's one of the things I've in recovery, I learned A
lot about how my brain works.
I can actually thank for thatbecause all of a sudden I got
neurodivergence and there wasjust like too many similarities
with a lot of stuff on there.
I'm diagnosed ADHD undiagnosedAutistic.
(11:30):
It's not severe enough for theNHS here in the UK to give me a
diagnosis.
Fine.
And I can't afford to pay forit.
But it's given me so much toexplore why my brain is doing a
lot of stuff.
The diagnosis won't fixanything, but it gives me
knowledge and it makes meunderstand why sometimes it
(11:51):
doesn't.
I feel like shit or I havemeltdowns or stuff like that.
So it's a lot easier tonavigate, go, okay, do you know
what?
I have ADHD paralysis today, butthat's okay.
I can be at home and do nothing.
And sometimes I feel like shitand that won't last forever.
(12:12):
And that's just what I need toremember in those times.
Steve (12:15):
Yeah, I definitely love that.
It was two or three guests I hadin a row almost where they were
talking about getting their ADHDdiagnosis in their recovery and
talking about their struggles.
And I was like, Oh, wait aminute.
I remember I was diagnosed withthat way back in the day.
And I'm struggling with allthese things now, maybe there's
something truth to it.
So I've been able to gettreatment now since then.
And it's yeah, there's power andthat knowledge and that
(12:36):
diagnosis and just being kind toyourself because I'm meaner to
myself than anyone else willever be mean to me, so like at
least now when I have those dayswhere my head's up in the clouds
where I can't focus, like I knowthat it'll pass and it's not me
being broken, it's just my brainworks a little differently.
Ralf (12:51):
Oh, my brain is the meanest roast ever.
Sometimes it's loud, sometimesit's not.
For the most part, I'm okay.
But then again, I'm alsomedicated.
So that helps a little bit.
Which is also one of the thingsI've been quite honest about.
Is it's not for everyone.
At the moment I am on a low doseof citalopram which helps me.
(13:12):
It just takes that edge off.
And it also helped me in earlyrecovery.
Originally I was on sertralinewhich you probably have
different names for it in theStates.
Steve (13:24):
That's like the generic of, yeah, it's like
Ralf (13:27):
the first one they put you on.
And for the first three years,that was fine until I got to a
point where I can't cry.
And if I cut my dick off, Iwouldn't care because I'm not
horny whatsoever.
Steve (13:42):
It
Ralf (13:44):
was, do you know what, at the start, because my issue was
chem sex.
That was actually almost agodsend, not having that urge,
because every time I was horny,I would want to use drugs.
So actually having a periodwhere I didn't have a sex drive
was great until it wasn't.
So talopram, I can gladly say Istill have a sex drive, which is
(14:06):
great.
And I'm not completely goingcrazy with anxiety or depression
and so on.
So it kinda, it's a good balancefor me.
Steve (14:16):
Excellent.
And going back to your earlyrecovery, you mentioned that you
did use 12 step meetings earlyon.
In addition to those, or likesometimes included in with those
are tips and tricks or thingsthat you do to help you get
through that first beginning,especially early day counting
into your first year.
What did you use besidesmeetings to get you through?
Ralf (14:35):
I've done a lot of things.
I've done therapy.
I've tried different things.
I even did, drama therapy at onepoint.
There's a guy here in Londoncalled Simon Marks who, also
headed up something called SWAT,which is Structured Weekend
Antidote Program.
It's gay rehab, but just intensecourses over four weekends,
which I absolutely loved andhelped me a lot.
(14:58):
Drama therapy was not for me.
As we mentioned, it's I lookvery outgoing here, but being in
a room with seven other people,having to embody the superhero
in me?
Nope, did not work.
But that's also fine.
It's fine.
You can try different things.
The chorus I sing in, the LondonGay Men's Chorus, is a big part
(15:18):
of my recovery.
That is where I've met the firstsober people in my life.
And if I hadn't been in theLondon Gay Men's Chorus, I would
probably be dead by now.
There's no doubt in my mindabout that.
They also gave me a creativeoutlet.
I think one of the things Irealized when I became sober is,
I'm super creative, but the nineyears I was doing drugs, Did
(15:43):
nothing creative.
At all.
So when I became sober all of asudden all this creativity comes
back And I just keep super busyIt's like sometimes look at my
calendars It's like I need toput in some rest time for two
hours on this date so I can dosomething there.
(16:03):
But also i've done therapy i'vedone harm reduction.
i've even explored smartrecovery for me 12 step was
definitely a great stabilitatorfor me in early recovery,
meeting a lot of amazing peopleand hearing amazing shares with
similarities to my story.
(16:25):
I just grew out of it and itbecame more of an anxiety for me
than anything else.
I have a tendency, if, I have todo something and I get told
something I will develop ananxiety around it at one point I
just got to a point where if Imissed meetings I would become
so anxious that I might relapseso I had to untangle that myself
(16:50):
nothing to do with the meetings.
It's just to do with myself Ineed to do something healthfully
That is not I can't go to ameeting and if I need it,
they're there if I need them.
And that's the amazing thing.
there's no membership.
You just walk in if you need itand I'm happy it is there.
But for me, if I had to do it asa routine and I start missing,
(17:13):
then I'll get anxious.
So that's how it works for meanyway.
Steve (17:17):
Yeah, no, I definitely get it.
Having my show, having mymeetings, having different
resources, it all, I do mygrocery shopping of recovery,
and it all works out well forme.
We talked about untangling, andyou mentioned how you had to
untangle the drugs as well assex.
How did your show help you dothat?
And what inspired you to createand launch that show from the
(17:39):
group?
Ralf (17:41):
I started the Real Clear Fetish group on Facebook.
Facebook groups are now dying adeath.
It's not really a thing.
Facebook has almost become theplace for old people, old
millennials which is fine.
I think anything has a naturalprogression.
The group is still there ifyou're interested in joining.
(18:04):
Not a lot happens on there atthe moment, but I created the
platform in 17 because as Imentioned I get told that I have
to give it up give all my kinkup and I'm very stubborn and I
don't like being told what to doand what I can't do so I
actually said the group upHalfly for selfish reasons,
(18:27):
because I just wanted to dig myown way back in.
But in with like minded peoplewho also knew from the start
that if you're in this group,you have to respect anyone in
the group that they mightstruggle with certain things.
So that was where the group camefrom.
So that ran up until to 2020.
COVID happened.
Like many of us, we were stuckat home and I just started these
(18:52):
Instagram live things because myplatform is mainly Instagram.
And I started doing theseInstagram live shows.
Where I would just invite aguest on to talk about kink and
sobriety or whatever they bringto the table And then it's just
slowly developed Instagram arehorrible.
(19:13):
So they kept blocking myaccount.
So the podcast has moved awayfrom that platform but, and then
I've just it's just reallylovely to do.
And I get to talk to someamazing people and it's a lot of
work, but it also keeps meaccountable and grounded and
reminds me where I've come from.
(19:33):
I've had some really powerfulepisodes on there.
Some really joyful episodes.
Yours was really just a joy.
It was just so nice to talk toyou because.
You are still what I would callin early days of when it comes
to kink and it's just this Likekid in a candy store feel which
(19:55):
is amazing and I just love itbecause I've met so many people
who now interact with thispodcast and they listen to
things that get said on thereand all of a sudden it's oh
people are listening Becausesometimes with podcasts because
it is a kind of you don't seeyour audience It can be a little
(20:18):
bit like am I yelling into thevoid?
Is anyone actually bloodylistening?
Steve (20:22):
Anytime any listener does the text the show or leaves a
comment I try to shout it fromthe rooftops be like you all
should do this more because Iknow from number of people
listen To the show but theengagement.
Yeah, sometimes you wonder
Ralf (20:34):
You saw one of my Fan I met at Folsom Berlin in
September I listened to yourshow.
I'm from Cape town.
I was just like, South Africa.
Amazing.
I didn't actually know it wouldget there and he loves the show.
And he was just like, Oh, by theway, I'm going to Antarctica.
Would you want me to do a littleclip whilst I'm there whilst I
(20:55):
watch it?
I was just like, that would beamazing.
So I recently just posted it andit's your episode.
He's watching when he's doingthis little video.
I was like, yeah, my podcast is.
on Annoyed Cat now, so that's sofun.
Steve (21:10):
Yeah,
Ralf (21:10):
that's
Steve (21:10):
Yeah, what's one amazing thing that your show has given
to your life that you didn'texpect when you started?
Ralf (21:17):
I jokedly go to people and say, yeah, I'm a white man with
a microphone.
Which is fine.
But Has really given mesomething I get to talk to
people.
I normally wouldn't talk to inevery walks of life.
I try to keep my guest listfairly diverse But of course
when it's kink and when it'ssober stuff you have to look for
(21:39):
the guests I have people askingme to come on the show and I
also find my guests if theymention something sober on their
profile on Instagram, I go,would you want to come on?
And I also love that I can haveguests on that different
experiences.
I've had people on who are notnecessarily sober, but they
don't do drugs for sex.
I have people who have 30, 40years of sobriety on the show.
(22:05):
I've had psychologists ortherapists on, heads of chem sex
charities.
So it's not just purely, I getsomeone on that's.
this tragic story of thembecoming clean and sober.
It can be, I had an episodewhere we just talked about the
art he makes.
He's an artist, but he's also, Ichoose not to drink.
(22:26):
It was not necessarily aproblem.
He just chooses not to.
So it's all about the differenttypes.
There's not just one type ofsober person.
And that's what I love.
Steve (22:37):
Yeah, that's definitely been freeing because, yeah, I
spent my first year or two, evenon this podcast very much trying
to be the perfect host of theperfect sober podcast so I could
be the perfect sober person andthat I wouldn't have any strong
opinions one way or anotherbecause I might upset someone.
But like, I get more powerful, Iconnect with my audience more
and with my guests more when I'mable to just be myself and the
(22:57):
right people will be attractedto it and the wrong people.
Weren't meant to listen anyway.
Ralf (23:03):
I've had in the past and I'm not sure if it was, intended
to be a slight read on mypodcast, but I did have someone
I know write to me.
It's did you know the guest youjust had on does drink?
It's yeah, I know.
It's not always, they don't haveto be 100 percent sober to be on
my podcast.
If I feel like they don't fitthe format or maybe too far away
(23:26):
from my values, then I wouldn'thave them on.
But if they bring something tothe podcast that might be
beneficial for someonelistening, then I'll bring them
on, and they don't have to besober.
If they're in active addictionor like high on the fucking
hall, maybe not.
Steve (23:44):
Maybe
Ralf (23:44):
But at the end of the day, it's my podcast, so I invite on
who I want to invite on.
And if I feel like they bringsomething to the talk about kink
and being sober, perfect.
They don't have to be sober.
Steve (23:56):
Excellent.
And I know people can find yourshow wherever they find my show,
so give them the full name andall the ads and everything to
find you on social media andeverything.
Ralf (24:05):
On, X, necessary evil, and blue sky, I am real clear
fetish.
Instagram, the same real clearfetish YouTube, and on Apple
Podcasts and Spotify, it's realclear fetish talks, real clear
play.
Excellent.
Yeah, and you can also drop mean email if you wanna talk to
(24:28):
me.
It's Real Clearfetish@gmail.com.
Real clear fetish@gmail.com.
Steve (24:33):
Perfect.
It's been a pleasure, Rob.
I love that now my audience getsto know you better, so you can
come back on for a topic episodein a couple months where we'll
dive more into the kink talk.
Ralf (24:43):
Oh, I would love that.
It's my favorite subject.
Absolutely.
Steve (24:47):
Excellent.
Sounds good.
Until then, it was a greatchatting and connecting with you
and my listeners.
Thank you for tuning intoanother episode.
We'll see you next Thursday.
Ralf (24:56):
Bye.
Hey there, Super Sober Heroes.
It's your host, Sober Steve, thepodcast guy.
Welcome to Gay A.
I am here with 1, 279 Days Soberand here with my new friend,
Ralph, from The Real ClearFetish.
Hello! Yes, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Listeners who follow the podcastof mine got a chance to hear me
(00:24):
on your show last week, both onmy feed as well as on your show.
But for those who might be justtuning in or want to know more
about you, why don't youintroduce yourself?
Ralf (00:33):
My name is Ralph.
I live in London, UK.
Originally from Denmark.
Glorified Viking for anyonelistening, you won't be able to
see it, but if you're watchingthis clip, you can see I have a
slight ginger beard.
So I'm definitely of thatorigin.
I'm seven years and a bit soberfrom all drugs.
Yeah I run like you justmentioned, I run a podcast
(00:57):
dealing with kink, anythingkinky and anything sober and
everything in between.
Which kind of started from mesetting up a sober kink group on
Facebook and it just grew fromthere.
In my spare time I sing with theLondon Gay Men's Chorus.
I work in local government andyeah happily single or unhappily
(01:22):
single.
I don't know.
Steve (01:24):
Depends on the day.
Ralf (01:25):
It depends on the day.
Steve (01:26):
Yes.
Sounds like you were living avery full, happy, sober life.
That is excellent.
And yeah, I definitely.
I love that.
I have guests on all the timethat share all sorts of
experiences, but the ones thatpeople always remember are the
sex related episodes or the sexrelated conversations.
So I'm sure people will love tohear about what you're doing
today.
But before we jump into that,why don't you share what your
(01:47):
favorite part of being a memberof the queer community or gay
community is today?
Ralf (01:52):
Just so you can be authentically yourself.
I was about to say withoutjudgment, but that's not true
because there is definitelyjudgment from certain areas of
the community.
That's for sure.
But I think.
At least like growing up when Icame out at 18.
So a couple of years back no,I'm, I turned 40 in October.
(02:13):
So I can't get away from thatone.
But it's the process of becomingwhere you want to be.
How you want to present theworld and it definitely took me
a while where I went from Ragingtwink with tank tops and
bleached hair to now Full blownleather man and just being
really happy in my own skin forthe most part So it's all a
(02:36):
development and I just love thefact that it is such a big
melting pot of different typesof experiences and styles and
gender expressions and I loveall that.
And that's also one of thethings being in the London Gay
Men's Chorus where we're 200members, but it's just 200
members of differentexperiences.
(02:57):
So I get to interact with notjust leather men in my life.
But from all sorts of areas ofthe queer community.
Steve (03:05):
Yeah, I definitely love how diverse our community is and
just how we don't have to followa lot of the social norms that
are placed on a lot of the more,people that fit in.
So I love that.
And what would you say is yourfavorite part of being sober
today?
Ralf (03:22):
Being able to handle stuff.
This year has been a bit tryingI wouldn't say it's been
dramatic.
I know other people have morechallenging years than I've had,
but it's.
I've moved house once this yearand I now have to move house
again next year due to the houseI'm in being evicted from here.
(03:42):
But actually just having thecapacity to handle these things.
Where before, when I was stillusing, I was reactive, I would
react with relapsing, or usingto get away from these feelings,
where now, I won't lie, it islike when the whole news about
(04:03):
it.
Being evicted from this houseand so on.
Did I feel like a drink?
Absolutely fucking I also sosecure in my recovery that I can
vocalize that and go, do youknow what I could really do with
a drink?
But I talk to people about itand take the power away from it.
I think it's about just beinghonest with where your head
(04:25):
goes.
And when things get stressful,that is where it gets tricky
sometimes in recovery.
It's not about perfection, it'sjust about accountability and
being honest about where you'reat.
So I just love being sober.
Not all the time, but most ofthe time.
Steve (04:44):
Yeah, I can definitely relate.
I know that even my hardest dayssober have been easier in the
end than a lot of my days when Iwas in my active addiction.
Because I was like you, reactingto everything.
I'd wake up and have no ideawhat the day was going to hold.
I was on defense the entire day,now I'm able to start my day,
not hungover, so I'm able to beclear headed, and, take my
(05:05):
moment to center myself I'm ableto act through the day rather
than react, and still playthings by ear without having to
be like, Oh no, the world'sover, and my day's ruined, and
everything's garbage, why don'tyou share a little bit about how
you got to where you are todaywith your drinking and
addiction?
Ralf (05:20):
Like any little gay boy who moves to London, you want to
try new stuff when you movehere.
And I moved to here when I was24 and Drug taking was quite new
to me.
It was not something I'd everdone when I lived in Denmark.
It's not really a big thing inthe small country of Denmark.
There is drug taking there, butI was very much against it.
(05:42):
I grew up in a house where Idealt with domestic abuse and
alcoholism, primarily from mymom's partners, over the years.
So I always had this of theirweak willed that.
I don't want to do that.
I had a very funny relationshipwith alcohol, but I would always
(06:03):
drink to excess.
That's for sure.
I never drank to enjoy.
I drank to get drunk.
I don't categorize myself as analcoholic.
Alcohol will always lead me toother things.
So that's one of the reasons Ichoose not to drink.
But when I moved here, it wasaround the time grinder became a
(06:23):
thing so it slowly started withparty drugs and weekends and
that was fun I didn't really seean issue with that.
But with grinder came easyaccess Because you had chill
outs it was almost like pickingfrom a ala card menu of people
you could go to just oh Theyhave this so we go there.
(06:44):
They have that I go there so Istill have, one Christmas I was
given a battery pack for myphone, which is massive.
I would use that at a weekend tojump from house to house,
because then my phone wouldn'tdie.
I didn't see there was anyproblem in that, I thought, no,
that's what you do.
(07:05):
And that stood on for quite awhile, and then I wasn't with
the partners I'd moved over forat the time.
I moved in by myself in 2016 andall of a sudden, all the safety
wheels were off.
I could do what I wanted to do.
And I remember because it, Thedrug taking had been an issue
(07:28):
for a while at that point, butnot to an extent where it didn't
affect my job.
It was just more maybe affectingthe people around me and they
could tell something was notquite right.
So when I moved in by myself,one of my friends went, Don't go
overboard.
You know how this goes.
And I was like yeah, it'll befine, blah, blah, blah.
(07:49):
Fast forward eight months later,I had my first drug psychosis in
my flat after a four, five daybender after my birthday.
And I think that was I'd beentrying other stuff up until
that, like harm reduction, andmanaging, and making notes on
how much I was taking, on whichdays, I was even noting down how
(08:12):
much unprotective sex I'd had,just to keep a log of what was
going on.
And that seemed to sometimeswork cause like take it into
like perspectives, like I tookthis many ecstasy pills.
I did this many lines, so on andso forth.
But it also built on the shamearound it.
Absolutely.
So when I had this drugpsychosis.
(08:35):
That scared the shit out of me.
It was also the way my mom foundout because I was talking to her
on the phone in my psychosis, soit was messy.
I ended up in hospital.
They just made sure I didn't geta heart attack and I was sent to
home and that triggered mecontacting someone from my
chorus to who I knew was inrecovery.
(08:58):
And he took me to my first N.
A.
meeting and my first C.
M.
A.
meeting.
And I went to meetings for maybethe first year and a half.
Up until, yeah, year and a halfto two years I used the 12 step
meetings.
And it was a great stability.
There was a couple of stumblesafter that, absolutely.
(09:21):
But I've been sober sinceSeptember 17 now 2017.
And now I just use my energy tohost my own podcast about
sobriety and also being kinkybecause chem sex is definitely
my story and trying to get yoursex life back after it's been
(09:42):
intertwined with drugs.
is fucking hard.
Am I allowed to swear on thispodcast?
Steve (09:48):
Fuck yes, you can.
Ralf (09:50):
Good.
Good.
So it, that took a while.
And that was a part of myrecovery, but also what was part
of my recovery is also beingtold.
I cannot do this again.
I'm not allowed to do a fetishbecause it would be too
triggering for the rest of mylife by other people in recovery
and I was No, i'm not havingthat.
(10:11):
I love my fetish life.
I love the kinky stuff I get upto but it took a while to
relearn it and now I'm enjoyinga sober, kinky leather, rubber,
whatever gear people are in lifeand I'm, can't be more happy.
Sometimes it can be tricky whenyou go out in clubs and bars and
(10:34):
you just see people who canrelax and be themselves and so
on, where I sometimes canstruggle socially.
And that, that can be trickysometimes, but for most of the
time I'm okay, and I'm good atHolding myself accountable or
just saying, okay, this is notworking, then I can just leave.
Steve (10:53):
I can definitely relate to that.
People think because I appearvery outgoing on social media
that like, in person, at like aclub or an event or a bar in the
same way, it's like I can bevery shy at first until I warm
up or get going.
Ralf (11:05):
It's one of the things I've in recovery, I learned A
lot about how my brain works.
I can actually thank for thatbecause all of a sudden I got
neurodivergence and there wasjust like too many similarities
with a lot of stuff on there.
I'm diagnosed ADHD undiagnosedAutistic.
(11:30):
It's not severe enough for theNHS here in the UK to give me a
diagnosis.
Fine.
And I can't afford to pay forit.
But it's given me so much toexplore why my brain is doing a
lot of stuff.
The diagnosis won't fixanything, but it gives me
knowledge and it makes meunderstand why sometimes it
(11:51):
doesn't.
I feel like shit or I havemeltdowns or stuff like that.
So it's a lot easier tonavigate, go, okay, do you know
what?
I have ADHD paralysis today, butthat's okay.
I can be at home and do nothing.
And sometimes I feel like shitand that won't last forever.
(12:12):
And that's just what I need toremember in those times.
Steve (12:15):
Yeah, I definitely love that.
It was two or three guests I hadin a row almost where they were
talking about getting their ADHDdiagnosis in their recovery and
talking about their struggles.
And I was like, Oh, wait aminute.
I remember I was diagnosed withthat way back in the day.
And I'm struggling with allthese things now, maybe there's
something truth to it.
So I've been able to gettreatment now since then.
And it's yeah, there's power andthat knowledge and that
(12:36):
diagnosis and just being kind toyourself because I'm meaner to
myself than anyone else willever be mean to me, so like at
least now when I have those dayswhere my head's up in the clouds
where I can't focus, like I knowthat it'll pass and it's not me
being broken, it's just my brainworks a little differently.
Ralf (12:51):
Oh, my brain is the meanest roast ever.
Sometimes it's loud, sometimesit's not.
For the most part, I'm okay.
But then again, I'm alsomedicated.
So that helps a little bit.
Which is also one of the thingsI've been quite honest about.
Is it's not for everyone.
At the moment I am on a low doseof citalopram which helps me.
(13:12):
It just takes that edge off.
And it also helped me in earlyrecovery.
Originally I was on sertralinewhich you probably have
different names for it in theStates.
Steve (13:24):
That's like the generic of, yeah, it's like
Ralf (13:27):
the first one they put you on.
And for the first three years,that was fine until I got to a
point where I can't cry.
And if I cut my dick off, Iwouldn't care because I'm not
horny whatsoever.
Steve (13:42):
It
Ralf (13:44):
was, do you know what, at the start, because my issue was
chem sex.
That was actually almost agodsend, not having that urge,
because every time I was horny,I would want to use drugs.
So actually having a periodwhere I didn't have a sex drive
was great until it wasn't.
So talopram, I can gladly say Istill have a sex drive, which is
(14:06):
great.
And I'm not completely goingcrazy with anxiety or depression
and so on.
So it kinda, it's a good balancefor me.
Steve (14:16):
Excellent.
And going back to your earlyrecovery, you mentioned that you
did use 12 step meetings earlyon.
In addition to those, or likesometimes included in with those
are tips and tricks or thingsthat you do to help you get
through that first beginning,especially early day counting
into your first year.
What did you use besidesmeetings to get you through?
Ralf (14:35):
I've done a lot of things.
I've done therapy.
I've tried different things.
I even did, drama therapy at onepoint.
There's a guy here in Londoncalled Simon Marks who, also
headed up something called SWAT,which is Structured Weekend
Antidote Program.
It's gay rehab, but just intensecourses over four weekends,
which I absolutely loved andhelped me a lot.
(14:58):
Drama therapy was not for me.
As we mentioned, it's I lookvery outgoing here, but being in
a room with seven other people,having to embody the superhero
in me?
Nope, did not work.
But that's also fine.
It's fine.
You can try different things.
The chorus I sing in, the LondonGay Men's Chorus, is a big part
(15:18):
of my recovery.
That is where I've met the firstsober people in my life.
And if I hadn't been in theLondon Gay Men's Chorus, I would
probably be dead by now.
There's no doubt in my mindabout that.
They also gave me a creativeoutlet.
I think one of the things Irealized when I became sober is,
I'm super creative, but the nineyears I was doing drugs, Did
(15:43):
nothing creative.
At all.
So when I became sober all of asudden all this creativity comes
back And I just keep super busyIt's like sometimes look at my
calendars It's like I need toput in some rest time for two
hours on this date so I can dosomething there.
(16:03):
But also i've done therapy i'vedone harm reduction.
i've even explored smartrecovery for me 12 step was
definitely a great stabilitatorfor me in early recovery,
meeting a lot of amazing peopleand hearing amazing shares with
similarities to my story.
(16:25):
I just grew out of it and itbecame more of an anxiety for me
than anything else.
I have a tendency, if, I have todo something and I get told
something I will develop ananxiety around it at one point I
just got to a point where if Imissed meetings I would become
so anxious that I might relapseso I had to untangle that myself
(16:50):
nothing to do with the meetings.
It's just to do with myself Ineed to do something healthfully
That is not I can't go to ameeting and if I need it,
they're there if I need them.
And that's the amazing thing.
there's no membership.
You just walk in if you need itand I'm happy it is there.
But for me, if I had to do it asa routine and I start missing,
(17:13):
then I'll get anxious.
So that's how it works for meanyway.
Steve (17:17):
Yeah, no, I definitely get it.
Having my show, having mymeetings, having different
resources, it all, I do mygrocery shopping of recovery,
and it all works out well forme.
We talked about untangling, andyou mentioned how you had to
untangle the drugs as well assex.
How did your show help you dothat?
And what inspired you to createand launch that show from the
(17:39):
group?
Ralf (17:41):
I started the Real Clear Fetish group on Facebook.
Facebook groups are now dying adeath.
It's not really a thing.
Facebook has almost become theplace for old people, old
millennials which is fine.
I think anything has a naturalprogression.
The group is still there ifyou're interested in joining.
(18:04):
Not a lot happens on there atthe moment, but I created the
platform in 17 because as Imentioned I get told that I have
to give it up give all my kinkup and I'm very stubborn and I
don't like being told what to doand what I can't do so I
actually said the group upHalfly for selfish reasons,
(18:27):
because I just wanted to dig myown way back in.
But in with like minded peoplewho also knew from the start
that if you're in this group,you have to respect anyone in
the group that they mightstruggle with certain things.
So that was where the group camefrom.
So that ran up until to 2020.
COVID happened.
Like many of us, we were stuckat home and I just started these
(18:52):
Instagram live things because myplatform is mainly Instagram.
And I started doing theseInstagram live shows.
Where I would just invite aguest on to talk about kink and
sobriety or whatever they bringto the table And then it's just
slowly developed Instagram arehorrible.
(19:13):
So they kept blocking myaccount.
So the podcast has moved awayfrom that platform but, and then
I've just it's just reallylovely to do.
And I get to talk to someamazing people and it's a lot of
work, but it also keeps meaccountable and grounded and
reminds me where I've come from.
(19:33):
I've had some really powerfulepisodes on there.
Some really joyful episodes.
Yours was really just a joy.
It was just so nice to talk toyou because.
You are still what I would callin early days of when it comes
to kink and it's just this Likekid in a candy store feel which
(19:55):
is amazing and I just love itbecause I've met so many people
who now interact with thispodcast and they listen to
things that get said on thereand all of a sudden it's oh
people are listening Becausesometimes with podcasts because
it is a kind of you don't seeyour audience It can be a little
(20:18):
bit like am I yelling into thevoid?
Is anyone actually bloodylistening?
Steve (20:22):
Anytime any listener does the text the show or leaves a
comment I try to shout it fromthe rooftops be like you all
should do this more because Iknow from number of people
listen To the show but theengagement.
Yeah, sometimes you wonder
Ralf (20:34):
You saw one of my Fan I met at Folsom Berlin in
September I listened to yourshow.
I'm from Cape town.
I was just like, South Africa.
Amazing.
I didn't actually know it wouldget there and he loves the show.
And he was just like, Oh, by theway, I'm going to Antarctica.
Would you want me to do a littleclip whilst I'm there whilst I
(20:55):
watch it?
I was just like, that would beamazing.
So I recently just posted it andit's your episode.
He's watching when he's doingthis little video.
I was like, yeah, my podcast is.
on Annoyed Cat now, so that's sofun.
Steve (21:10):
Yeah,
Ralf (21:10):
that's
Steve (21:10):
Yeah, what's one amazing thing that your show has given
to your life that you didn'texpect when you started?
Ralf (21:17):
I jokedly go to people and say, yeah, I'm a white man with
a microphone.
Which is fine.
But Has really given mesomething I get to talk to
people.
I normally wouldn't talk to inevery walks of life.
I try to keep my guest listfairly diverse But of course
when it's kink and when it'ssober stuff you have to look for
(21:39):
the guests I have people askingme to come on the show and I
also find my guests if theymention something sober on their
profile on Instagram, I go,would you want to come on?
And I also love that I can haveguests on that different
experiences.
I've had people on who are notnecessarily sober, but they
don't do drugs for sex.
I have people who have 30, 40years of sobriety on the show.
(22:05):
I've had psychologists ortherapists on, heads of chem sex
charities.
So it's not just purely, I getsomeone on that's.
this tragic story of thembecoming clean and sober.
It can be, I had an episodewhere we just talked about the
art he makes.
He's an artist, but he's also, Ichoose not to drink.
(22:26):
It was not necessarily aproblem.
He just chooses not to.
So it's all about the differenttypes.
There's not just one type ofsober person.
And that's what I love.
Steve (22:37):
Yeah, that's definitely been freeing because, yeah, I
spent my first year or two, evenon this podcast very much trying
to be the perfect host of theperfect sober podcast so I could
be the perfect sober person andthat I wouldn't have any strong
opinions one way or anotherbecause I might upset someone.
But like, I get more powerful, Iconnect with my audience more
and with my guests more when I'mable to just be myself and the
(22:57):
right people will be attractedto it and the wrong people.
Weren't meant to listen anyway.
Ralf (23:03):
I've had in the past and I'm not sure if it was, intended
to be a slight read on mypodcast, but I did have someone
I know write to me.
It's did you know the guest youjust had on does drink?
It's yeah, I know.
It's not always, they don't haveto be 100 percent sober to be on
my podcast.
If I feel like they don't fitthe format or maybe too far away
(23:26):
from my values, then I wouldn'thave them on.
But if they bring something tothe podcast that might be
beneficial for someonelistening, then I'll bring them
on, and they don't have to besober.
If they're in active addictionor like high on the fucking
hall, maybe not.
Steve (23:44):
Maybe
Ralf (23:44):
But at the end of the day, it's my podcast, so I invite on
who I want to invite on.
And if I feel like they bringsomething to the talk about kink
and being sober, perfect.
They don't have to be sober.
Steve (23:56):
Excellent.
And I know people can find yourshow wherever they find my show,
so give them the full name andall the ads and everything to
find you on social media andeverything.
Ralf (24:05):
On, X, necessary evil, and blue sky, I am real clear
fetish.
Instagram, the same real clearfetish YouTube, and on Apple
Podcasts and Spotify, it's realclear fetish talks, real clear
play.
Excellent.
Yeah, and you can also drop mean email if you wanna talk to
(24:28):
me.
It's Real Clearfetish@gmail.com.
Real clear fetish@gmail.com.
Steve (24:33):
Perfect.
It's been a pleasure, Rob.
I love that now my audience getsto know you better, so you can
come back on for a topic episodein a couple months where we'll
dive more into the kink talk.
Ralf (24:43):
Oh, I would love that.
It's my favorite subject.
Absolutely.
Steve (24:47):
Excellent.
Sounds good.
Until then, it was a greatchatting and connecting with you
and my listeners.
Thank you for tuning intoanother episode.
We'll see you next Thursday.
Ralf (24:56):
Bye.
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