December 12, 2024 • 41 mins
In this episode, originally released on April 22nd, 2022, Steve welcomes Scott to share their experience, strength, and hope with you, along with advice on getting and staying sober.
Follow Scott on Instagram @scotttgrasso and follow us while you are at it @gAyApodcast.
Also check out their website: https://www.scottgrasso.com/
Thank you for listening. Please rate and review if you have found this information helpful.
If you are interested in sharing your story, getting involved with the show, or just saying hi, please e-mail me at gayapodcast@gmail.com
Or Follow Us wherever you are listening so you can get new episodes when they come out every Monday and Thursday. Until that time, stay sober, friends!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steve (00:00):
Hello there super sober heroes and welcome to a brand
new episode of gay a the queersober hero show I'm your host
sober steve the podcast guy herewith 1294 days of sobriety and I
am so grateful for anotherchance to dive deep Back into
the vault, filled with amazingexperience, strength, wisdom,
(00:22):
and hope that we've gotten tolisten to over the past 200 plus
episodes.
And since not all of you havebeen around since the beginning,
this is a great chance to hearsome great shares that have
stuck with me years after I'veheard them, including this
episode with Scott from almost athousand days ago, which I still
think about regularly, it speaksfor itself.
(00:44):
So I'll let you enjoy it.
hi everyone and welcome to GayA, a podcast about sobriety for
the LGBT plus community and ourallies.
I'm your host, Steve BennettMartin.
I am an alcoholic and I amgrateful for my career where I
get to help seniors.
(01:04):
As of this recording, I am 330days sober, and today we're
welcoming a guest to share theirexperience, wisdom, and hope
with you.
Welcome to the show, Scott.
Scott (01:13):
Why?
Thank you, Steve.
I'm delighted to be here.
Scott G, a recovering alcoholic,here with you today, and all the
way from Queensland in the statein Australia, on the East Coast.
Wow.
Thank you, Steve.
Very far away from where I gotsober in Boston, but that's part
of the sobriety journey.
Steve (01:32):
Excellent.
Then to get started, why don'tyou tell us about what your
sobriety journey was like?
Scott (01:37):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And please feel free to flash,time card signs at me.
Look, I guess just for anybodylistening, I just wanna, I used
to work in marketing for, as myfirst career, and we always had
to run everything past the legaldepartment.
So the legal department, for aa.
I am not a spokesperson for aa.
I'm just a garden variety drunk.
So for anybody listening I don'trepresent AA or any, AA has no
(01:59):
opinions on everything.
I have lots of them, but, and soit's okay to disagree with me
and it's okay to not like me.
And don't, please don't hold itagainst any of the 12 step
fellowships.
I'm just this idiot sharing, tothe best of my knowledge, and
ability, the, my experience,strength, and hope.
So look, I grew up in WesternMassachusetts on the East Coast
of, in Mass, on the States,really, and and a super gay kid.
(02:22):
So for any, this idea foranybody who's listening, who
lives, a queer lifestyle in anyof its permutations, I was, the
super queerest kid in the 1970sin a town, a very well affluent
town where a lot of the leadingfamilies trace their lineage
back to the Mayflower is thatkind of uptight Protestant shit
going down.
(02:42):
And I was Catholic and I wasItalian.
So that was bad.
My surname ended with a vowelwhen, everyone was like, had
three hyphenated names, Smith toCantor Jones, that kind of
stuff.
And And I wore bright greenflare trousers when all the
other boys wore blue jeans, likeI wear pink shirts.
I was really out there.
And part of my recovery journeyhas been going back and spending
(03:04):
time with that kid and saying,you were so fierce.
Like you were fierce when thatword didn't exist, but I got my
ass whooped like for all throughschool, I was bullied and
terrorized.
And I had to seek outside helpfor that.
Because what it did was it mademe feel unsafe and not felt
unsafe.
(03:24):
Like I was unsafe.
People would walk down thehallway and be like, I'm going
to beat you up after school.
Yeah.
And I had this, if you, anyone,and you may be too young, the,
in the wizard of Oz, Miss Gulch,who's the, becomes the wicked
witch of the West has an oldbicycle, an upright bicycle that
she rides.
And I had one of those in powderblue and it had chrome fenders.
And I used to put colorfulthings in the spokes.
(03:46):
I think I was so gay.
I was like, satellites could seeme from space.
I was so gay, but I, and I had achrome headlight that I was
particularly obsessed with.
And so somebody would saythey're going to beat me up and
I'd have to gather my books by214 and 215.
When the alarm went off, I'd runto my miss sculpt bike, get and
pedal my ass off school grounds.
And that fucks with you, likethat's trauma.
(04:09):
I didn't know the word traumaexisted until I got sober, but
that was traumatic.
And I come from a long line ofalcoholic, half of my family is
Italian.
And to the best of my knowledge,there's no alcoholism there.
There's French Canadian, myfamily, there's no alcoholism
there.
I have some native Americanancestry.
That's a problem because nativeAmericans, there's a belief that
(04:31):
they can't metabolize alcohol.
And I have one great grandparentwho's Irish.
Fitzgerald and all of thealcoholics come falling out of
the closet.
Over the centuries through theFitzgerald line.
So I believe very passionatelythat alcoholism is a disease and
it's inherited genetically.
My mom and her sisters areaffected badly by the diseases,
(04:53):
the, of alcoholism andaddiction.
My 59 from this disease.
So it's deadly and it's.
Killed a lot of members in myfamily, basically.
So I was just the next in line.
So I think that, there's alwaysone of your questions was, what
effect did my sexuality have onit?
So absolutely.
It was part of feelingdifferent, but alcoholics, we
(05:15):
now feel different anyway.
So as I felt different times 20and the trauma absolutely
contributed to my need.
To escape in whatever way thatwas.
So when alcohol came along, Iwas the last of my friends to
drink because I saw how stupidthey were.
But I vivid, and this is a signof alcoholism.
Alcoholics remember their firstdrink, right?
(05:35):
So ordinary drinkers do not.
So I remember it was a Millerhighlife beer and I hated the
taste, but my friends were alldrinking and I drank it with one
of my friends gave me a straw.
So I drank a Miller High Lifebeer out of a straw and he said,
drink it quickly.
And I drank it quickly and hatedthe taste, but really liked the
effect.
(05:55):
Really liked it.
And for a queer kid who felt onthe outside of society, I never,
alcohol never made me feel likeI fit in, but it made me feel
Like, I didn't care that Ididn't fit in, if that made
sense.
It was just a relief.
It was just a period of relief.
And I'll tell you that I wouldstill be drinking, Steve, if it
still worked, if I got thatrelief.
(06:16):
But alcohol stopped workingrelatively quickly.
I had my first drink at maybe 15and a half, and I was in AA at
29.
Like Dunsky, like cooked, fried,so I believe that I'm addicted
to alcohol.
I, it triggers a compulsion inme and an obsession.
I would, when I wasn't drinkingabout, I had a very complex, I'm
(06:38):
a Virgo.
My, my star sign is a Virgo andVirgos are very organized.
We're the very organized andwe're right about everything.
It's just annoying.
Virgos are annoying to know andlet alone be in a relationship
with.
But I used to organize like whoI was going to drink with when,
and this was in my mid twenties.
This is how bad I was.
It's not like he saw me drunklast week.
He can't see me.
So I was organizing where I wasgoing and who I was going with
(07:00):
and who had seen me and whichliquor store I had been in too
often.
And that's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work.
And as a blackout drinker, by mymid twenties, I would take
drinks and then wake up.
I take a drink in Boston andwake up in New Hampshire.
No idea how I got over statelines and, once I was quasi
(07:20):
kidnapped, in a blackout andwoke up in a totally different
town from where I'd beendrinking and no idea where I
was.
And I thought that drama wasliving.
I thought that was, wow, look atme being out there.
I'm a suburban boy.
Look at me in New Hampshire,waking up in a, in a woodpile.
I, one of my friends when I gotsober told me that he saved my
life.
Because on a ski trip in NewHampshire, I went outside and
(07:42):
passed out face down in a snowpile.
And if they hadn't found me, Icould have died of hypothermia.
So that was just, that's how Idrank.
I drank like a pig.
And my people say, what's yourdrug of choice?
My drug of choice?
More.
And back when I was drinking inthe 80s and 90s, I had a real
thing about drugs.
Drugs are for dirty people.
I was from the nice suburbsuntil I got drunk.
(08:03):
And then you offered mesomething for free.
And then it was like, sure.
And then I judge you, I wouldn'tpay for it.
I'd smoke your pot.
I do your coke.
I'd never pay you for it.
And then I'd scorn you the nextday for your drug addiction
problem.
Just a little smug bastard Iwas.
And look, the bottom line is Igot into dangerous situations
with dangerous people.
I ended up dating a bartender ina gay bar because I figured out,
(08:26):
this is a very good strategy, bythe way, if you are having sex
with a bartender, you never haveto wait for drinks.
That's a bit anybody who's stilldrinking.
If you want to get out there,like date the bartender.
So trays used to come around.
I never had to wait because partof my alcoholism was once I
started drinking, I had to feedthe monster and there was no
waiting in lines.
(08:47):
So that was the scariest thing.
I didn't go out on New Year's.
I'm an alcoholic.
I didn't go out on New Year'sbecause it was amateur night.
And you had to wait.
It was about being social.
It was about I had to feed thedisease.
So two things happened when Iwas 29.
One was I was dating a super hotFrenchman.
He was an interior designer.
(09:09):
He met me at the gym and he waslike 16 leagues out of my data.
It was just I don't know wherehe came from.
And his name is Ned.
And he was sober three years.
And I went to his house onenight for dinner and I brought a
six pack with me and Ned openedthe door and he looked at me in
horror and said, Scott, rememberI told you I'm a recovering
(09:29):
alcoholic.
And my response was, Yeah, Iknow.
That's why I only brought onesix pack, right?
That's how inconsiderate andselfish and self seeking.
I was that was just for me.
I brought what I needed on thisdate with this hot Frenchman and
he broke up with me.
We didn't date very long, but heanybody said something that was
super important to me.
He said, you're dangerous to myrecovery.
(09:52):
And it was the first time I'dever heard.
I knew my drinking was dangerousfor me, but I couldn't stop.
I now I heard that it was aproblem for someone else.
So that was the 1st signpost andthe 2nd was my best friend
growing up, had a beautifulpartner named Tim and Tim got
sober and we used to drinktogether and take drugs together
(10:13):
and all of a sudden Tim wasbright and shiny on Sunday
mornings.
And he wasn't spending his rentmoney, at whatever it was club
cafe.
I think it was in Boston at thattime.
I don't even know if it's stillaround, but he got, and I
watched the quality of lightchange in it.
And he looked shiny and happyand I had crippling hangovers
(10:34):
and often tell the story abouthow my closet in my little
apartment in the South end ofBoston had Louvre doors on it,
for air circulation and I would,my bed was close to the group.
The closet doors and I would, Iwas particularly allergic to red
wine and I would projectilevomit red wine from my bed into
my closet.
(10:55):
I would vomit through thelouvers and it would end up all
over my work clothes and all ofthat.
So I'd open up the next morning,there'd be stripes of red wine
and vomit on my clothing.
That's the kind of messy drinkerI was.
And it just, and I got sick andtired of being sick and tired.
There's, and the epic moment,What for me was on Sunday,
usually I vomited a lot becauseI was so allergic to alcohol and
(11:17):
I would, when I would go out fora night, I would put three extra
Tylenol along my kitchen counterand three glasses of water
before I went out.
That's how much planning had togo into my alcoholism.
And when I come home, hopefullyI'd see some water and take the
extra Tylenol.
But at the end of my drinking, Idecided that projectile vomiting
from my bed was becoming aproblem.
(11:38):
Not to mention wetting my bed.
And I had friends that wereshitting themselves and I knew I
was not interested in thatnarrative at all.
So I took to sleeping in mybathroom on Sunday nights and I
would, I had this reallyexpensive Polo Ralph Lauren
comforter.
It was very important that youknew that it was Polo Ralph
Lauren too, right?
I was all about labels.
(11:59):
I wore Brooks Brothers suits andI was very ripped and I did step
aerobics.
It was all about looking good onthe outside and having a God
sized hole on the inside.
And so I was sleeping, I used tosleep sideways on the toilet.
And my rationale was if Ivomited, at least some of it
would get in the toilet and therest of it, the toilet, the
linoleum came up around thesides in the bathroom so that it
(12:21):
created like a natural catchmentfor the rest of the vomit.
And I thought that wascompletely normal sleeping on
your toilet wrapped in your PoloRalph Lauren comforter.
I thought that was perfectlyfine strategy.
On this particular Sundaymorning I think it was something
like December 1st, 1992.
I had an out of body experience.
I saw myself.
I woke up on the toilet and Iwas floating above myself and I
(12:43):
saw, and the only word isdepravity.
I saw the depravity of my life.
I saw that it wasn't normal.
And I believe, and I'm, it was avery angry agnostic for my first
10 years in recovery.
And I fought by words, G O D andhigher power.
But I had a moment, this is atotal moment of clarity that was
not for me.
(13:03):
So whatever we ascribe that to,I now talk about having a
goddess of my misunderstanding.
But I saw that and I cried outand this is, I have, I find this
in most people's recovery.
There's a moment of truth andwhether they literally cry out,
I'm quite dramatic, right?
So I always go for a Jean PaulSartre moment, but I cried out
and said, dear God, if you'reout there, help me or kill me.
(13:27):
And I came to some hours laterin a meeting of AA, all right,
and my first year, like thisyear, like everything was
happening.
And I was going, oh, that'smysterious.
I wouldn't, I was just like,how's that?
So I came to a meeting of AA inBoston, and it was in the High
Holy Catholic Cathedral, Boston,in the South end and I was not
very happy with the Archbishopand the Cardinal at that time.
(13:49):
They were saying some awfulthings, but the, and I knew this
was, So much of my recovery isabout ego deflation at depth,
and I think my ego needsdeflating.
So my first meeting was in theHigh Holy Catholic Cathedral,
and I was an angry agnostic.
Recovering Catholic, you couldsay.
It was in the basement of thischurch, and it was next to the
crypt where the dead priestswere buried.
(14:10):
That was my first meeting of AA,and I thought, oh, honey, you've
really arrived.
Oh you've home run type, greatwork.
But I saw men, gay, it was a gaymeeting, gay men who were clean
and sober clean physically, andhappy.
And what I got in my firstmeeting was hope and they said
to me, keep coming back and theysurrounded me and they gave me
(14:33):
their phone numbers, which Ithought meant they wanted to
have sex with me.
So it's very, I was like, and Iscorned and judgment.
You're too fat.
You wear inappropriate clothing.
There's you're wearingpolyester.
I was like, reasons that Iwasn't going to be part of this
group but I kept coming, I wentto, and I only went to a meeting
a week for my first four months,because that's all I knew.
I was so insane.
I can't describe to you howinsane I was at the end of my
(14:55):
drinking.
So I went to one meeting a week.
Didn't get a sponsor, didn'ttouch the literature, didn't
have a service commitment.
And after four months, I went toSouth Beach on holiday and I
drank because that's whatalcoholics do.
And when I drank in South Beach,I was astonished because I'd
been to AA.
But I know the words.
I know there are steps.
(15:15):
I know I could pair it to youwhat it meant, but I got drunk
and one of those phone numbersthat was in my wallet.
I, and this is how long ago itwas in 1993.
I had to go to a pay phone atnews cafe in South Beach, Miami,
and I had to go to the bartenderand get.
Coins had to get quarters andput them in a payphone.
(15:35):
Now, my nieces who are in theearly 20s don't know the sound
that quarters make when they goin a payphone.
And, they're astonished by therotary dial kind of concept.
But I rang this guy in Boston,which would have cost a buttload
of money back then.
And I got this guy.
His name is Hebert.
And I called him and I said,Hebert, I'm drunk and I don't
know how this happened.
And he said, this is, I hopeeveryone has comedic
(15:58):
sponsorship.
He said to me, honey, did youput alcohol in your mouth?
And I was like, yes, I did.
How did you know that?
Oh my God, you're so wise.
And he said something that Ineeded to hear in my first step,
honey.
If you don't put alcohol in yourmouth, you can't get drunk.
And I thought, this is thewisest man I have ever met in my
(16:21):
life.
Ever.
And he became my sponsor.
I went back to Boston and webegan to work the steps.
And I'm so grateful to that manbecause he didn't, I was so
fucked.
My step one is I'm fucked.
My step two is I'm insane.
(16:41):
And so if I'm fucked and insane,I better look for wisdom outside
of myself, right?
That's step three.
I better look for God group ofdrunks or great outdoors or good
orderly direction.
And I've tried not to forgetthat.
And my sobriety date is the 12thof May, 1993.
And so that's 28 and a halfyears and how could a drunk
(17:02):
hopeless drunk like me staysober?
Remembering that I'm fucked andI'm insane.
That's my resting state.
And I know people listening tothis might be really insulted by
that.
But I say that with greatcompassion for myself and
others.
It's just if you're fucked andyou're insane, don't try to
solve your alcohol problem byyourselves.
That's not going to go so good.
(17:23):
Crazy plus crazy is going toequal crazy, right?
So this man started taking methrough the steps and he didn't
say to me, step one, he didn'tsay, Are you powerless over
alcohol and is your lifeunmanageable by you?
That would have been Mandarin tome.
He said, Honey, have you hadenough?
And that continues to serve me.
(17:43):
Whenever I'm struggling inrecovery, I've struggled with
credit card debt.
I've straddled struggles withsex behavior with food and my
sponsor.
I've had the same sponsor nowfor 24 years.
And he just says, I'll be off.
I'll be up to something becauseI'm always up to something, by
the way, even here, and I'llcall him and say, oh, God, I'm
in the cookies again.
(18:03):
Whatever it is.
We have Tim Tams in Australia.
They're wonderful.
But in whatever it is inAmerica, Fig Newtons, Mallow
Puffs, whatever you're, but,I'll find my face in, an entire
box of those.
And I'll call my sponsor and belike, I'm in the cookies again.
The journey to recovery startswith just have you had enough?
All right.
He'll say, have you had enoughof the compulsive spending?
Have you had enough of thecredit card debt?
(18:25):
If you had enough of the cookiesand when I say, yes, then I can
start to make progress inrecovery.
So for me, working the steps hasbeen.
An entire new way of looking atlife because I was so focused on
outwardly.
The last thing I want to do islook at my own shit.
And we're in the fourth month ofnow.
And it's the fourth step.
(18:46):
The fourth step changed my life.
That fourth and fifth steps arethe game fucking changes.
So I realized I was fucked.
I was insane.
I was going to look for wisdom.
So I got a sponsor, startedworking the steps, got a home
group, got a service commitment.
And in step four.
I learned about the instincts sothe most important, I think the
most important thing of thingsI've learned, I have a
(19:06):
progressive fatal disease.
That's incurable.
I can get a daily reprievecontingent on my maintenance of
a spiritual condition and tolook at my fears and instincts.
So my partner, Steve, and I justbought a beautiful 3 acre
property in Australia.
It's he describes it as we'vebought an abandoned boy scout
camp.
It's in Really rough shape.
(19:27):
And so I'm as a, as aperfectionist Virgo suburban
boy, I'm triggered as fuckbecause the gardens are messy
and the houses are falling down.
And I have to really, what I wastaught in the 4 step bar, I have
instincts for security, selfesteem, personal relations,
money and sex.
And whenever any of thoseinstincts are triggered, I
behave badly or I go into panic.
(19:49):
And then, and I also have fearsthat I'm going to lose what I
have that I'm not going to getwhat I want.
Or both and I learned that inthe fourth step that when I'm
triggered, it's not about you.
It's not about what you'redoing, but it's about my
instinct.
So moving into this house hasaffected my instincts for
security.
There were big gaps in the fall.
We have six foot pythons thatlive in the forest where we are
(20:11):
in Australia.
Like we have big monitorlizards.
Like, All kinds of poisonousspiders and there are gaps
everywhere and doors and shit.
So my instincts for security aretriggered as fuck right now.
And then, but when I realizedthat and call my sponsor and
tell him it dials back theanxiety, right?
So in four and five, I realizedI'm riddled with character
(20:32):
defects, all of my resentments.
I have the character defects ofpride and anger, every single
resentment.
I'm the character defect.
Pride is.
I know how you should act.
I know how the president shouldbehave.
I know the weather.
I know, and nothing separates mefrom my goddess, from my
spiritual self and my fellowsfaster than me knowing what's
(20:55):
best for you.
And I spent so many yearsminding your business.
Oh my God.
And I was full of helpfuladvice, but what he taught me is
that while I had lots ofopinions, I had very little
experience, right?
So I used to give my friendsrelationship advice.
I'd never been in arelationship.
My sponsor started saying, doyou have experience in this
(21:16):
area?
And I would say, no.
And he'd say, okay, restraint oftongue and pen.
Let's not give advice where wedon't have experience.
And when I got to be about 15 orprobably more likely 20 years
sober, it occurred to me thatmost people are not interested
in my wisdom and my experience.
And so nowadays, even with mysponsors, I've got five sponsors
(21:37):
at the moment.
I will, they'll be called,they'll call me and they'll be
talking about it.
I was going to say crapping onabout something.
That's really what I meant.
I was going to, but, and I'llsay, would you like my
experience on this?
Or are you just venting?
And 99 percent of the timethey're like, no, I'm just
venting.
I'm not actually interested inyour wisdom.
I'm like, okay, saves me so manywords.
I don't have to solve yourproblems today.
(21:57):
So look, when I did my fourthand fifth step and finished it
in Boston, my sponsor said tome, Scott, you've, you're an
alcoholic.
You've got these resentments.
You've got these characterdefects, pride, anger, lust,
sloth, gluttony, greed.
He said, first of all,congratulations.
You're a member of AA.
You've done your fifth step.
(22:18):
And he asked me a question.
He said, what do you want yourlife to look like?
And I was astonished by thequestion.
And I was a frightened kid.
I was never going to be 10, morethan 10 miles from my parents.
My sister lived in Boston.
I was never going to leave myfriends.
I had a great home group and Ithought about it for a minute.
And I said to him, I want agreat adventure.
(22:42):
And my sponsor, who was probably12 years sober at that point,
almost fell off the chairbecause he knew what a
frightened kid I was, and hesaid, be careful, the universe
is listening.
What do you choose for yourlife?
And I was as astonished as hewas.
And I said, Yeah, I want a bigadventure and be careful.
(23:02):
Be careful when your higherpower is there and you're
listening.
So I've my life took off thisfrightened kid from Boston when
I was four years sober.
I moved to San Francisco.
One of my sponsees moved outthere and all they had to do is
say to me, we don't shovel snow.
That's what he said.
I'm in San Francisco.
Great recovery.
We don't shovel snow.
Wham.
Four years sober, I was in SanFrancisco, and I met a guy from
(23:25):
New Zealand when I was living inSan Francisco, and we were
together for nine years, and wemoved to, he wanted to move home
to New Zealand initially, and Iwas like, nah, I didn't even
know where New Zealand was onthe map, by the way, I had to
look it up.
I thought it was somewhere nearDenmark and we moved to
Australia in 2000, and I'velived for five years, ended up
(23:46):
living in New Zealand for fiveyears.
I've been in Australia on andoff since 2000.
So I've been out of the UnitedStates for the most part for 22
years.
So how did a recoveringalcoholic, a fall down, queer,
drunk kid, From Longmeadow,Massachusetts end up in the
hinterlands on a in a rainforestin Australia.
I asked for it.
(24:07):
I asked for a big adventure andI kept doing the work.
I continue to do the work inrecovery.
I have a service commitment.
I have a home group.
I continue to do the work and mylife continues to grow and
change in unbelievable ways andthe work for me today is in my
11th step, continuing to try tocontinue to improve my conscious
(24:29):
connection with whatever thespirits of the universe are,
which for me is love, right?
Get out of fear.
And get into love and to examinethrough daily meditation and
prayer.
Where am I?
Take my own temperature.
I've taken your temperature fordecades.
I know you're flawed.
I don't have as much experiencein focusing on all my flaws.
So keeping the focus on me andtrying to be the most loving and
(24:53):
kind person that I can be today.
is shaping up to be a veryrewarding and busy life.
So yeah, so thank you for havingthe opportunity to share that
story with you.
Steve (25:03):
Yeah, it was a great story to listen to.
And with that, out of all thepositive changes in your life
since finding sobriety, what'sone or two that have surprised
you the most?
Scott (25:11):
As a gay kid, I had so much shame.
I was a sinner.
I was going to hell and mychurch confirmed that for me, by
the way, losing shame thathaving shame wash out like the
tide by doing esteemable acts bybecoming a person that I was
proud of instead of, I wasexperiencing so much shame.
(25:33):
And then I'd go out drinking andshame myself.
It was this repetitive cycle.
So not having shame dominate mylife has been the relief from
that has been.
Completely game changing.
I'm no longer ashamed of who andwhat I am.
I can say I'm a recoveringalcoholic without being
(25:54):
embarrassed by that today.
It's just oh, yeah, I've gothazel eyes and I'm recovering
alcoholic and somehow along the,that, that shame going away.
I could tell you now that I'm agay man of dignity and work and
I don't bow before anyone elsein the way everything was like,
hi, I'm Scott.
I'm gay.
Is that okay with you?
And today it's just Here I am,and it's okay for you not to
(26:17):
like me.
So just finding humility as mysponsor talks to me about a lot
is the definition of it is.
It's an honest understanding ofwho and what we are followed by
an earnest desire to be all thatwe can be and I think that's a
beautiful roadmap.
I know who I am today.
I'm an alcoholic.
I'm a gay man.
(26:37):
I'm a member of society and I'mpretty happy about that.
So definitely the shame goingaway was a big thing.
And the other thing was I.
I got sober in gay meetings, andso for my first maybe three
years, I was only going to gaymeetings.
So I thought, only gay, GLB,LBGTIQ I only thought we had
(26:57):
feelings and fears.
And then I needed to start goingto morning meetings at about
three years sober, because I wasblind.
Crazy again and couldn't make itthrough a work day until the
night meeting.
So with my sponsor, I startedgoing to a morning meeting in
Boston and there were straightpeople there.
And I was sitting next to thesegigantic firemen and policemen
(27:17):
and football players, and theywere sitting next to me and they
were talking about theiralcoholism and they were talking
about being afraid and beingunsure and not knowing what to
do.
And it was just, this wall camedown Straight guys are afraid
too?
I had built this narrative thatI'm the Sissy Mary who's afraid
of everything and everyone, andI'm the only one who's afraid.
So going, mixing more broadly insociety, I've realized that I'm
(27:42):
just a human being.
I'm just another bozo on thebus, that my sexuality doesn't
define me.
It's much more inclusive for meto think about my alcoholism
because I can go into a meetingand I've been all over the world
going into meetings.
It doesn't matter if you're aBuddhist monk or a sex worker.
It's just Hey, I know who youare.
And that feeling of communityblossoming around me has been
(28:03):
probably the other super greatgift.
Steve (28:05):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I definitely need to expand mymeetings a little bit more.
So that's a good kick in thebutt for that.
I needed to hear it.
And you share on your Instagrampage how you are an energy
healer, psychic and mentor.
Can you share how those giftshave impacted your sobriety?
Scott (28:23):
I would say that they've come about entirely because of
my recovery.
So in, in doing, in the thirdstep, I acknowledged, I was, I
acknowledged that I was insaneand fucked totally.
And my spot, I wouldn't get ahigher power and my sponsor who
busted me on everything.
I could never get away withanything.
He just said to me Scott, let meask you a question.
Do you believe that?
I believe.
(28:44):
And I was like, yes, I dobelieve that you believe in
something.
And he said, great, why don'tyou borrow my higher power?
And I was so busted that Icouldn't debate him.
I was like, all right.
And he said, get on your kneesin the morning, get on your
knees for two seconds and say,please help.
And at the end of the day, geton your knees and say, thank
(29:04):
you.
And I was like, there is nofucking way because it was just
what triggered me and my, my, myreligion of upbringing there's
no way I'm getting on my knees.
And he said to me, I'll neverforget this.
He said to me, Oh, honey, you'vebeen on your knees for far less
than prayer.
And I laughed and was like,touche motherfucker.
And but I did it and, firstthing, my boyfriend wasn't
(29:25):
around.
I got on my knees and I waslike, please help.
And at the end of the day, I goton my knees and I was like,
thank you, and ran.
And within a couple of weeks, Icouldn't wait, right?
So my spiritual press, I'vepracticed having a spiritual
connection to whatever is outthere.
It's led me to be curious aboutlots of things.
So I joined the UnitarianUniversalist Church when I was
(29:45):
about a year sober, and lots ofrecovering people and lots of
people in the queer communitywere there.
And that was amazing for me.
And we had a lesbian was ourMinister.
And that was amazing coming fromthe religion I came from.
And so I continue to getcurious.
And then I had friends, mysister had spiritual experiences
in meditation and she was doingastral travel at one of our best
mates became a shaman and shestarted doing energy healing.
(30:08):
And again, I always have to tellyou, it's never about virtue
with me.
It's always competition ordesperation that gets me to do
work, but I wasn't going to letmy little sister be more
spiritual than me.
Was I right?
So I followed her intomeditation.
I followed her into.
Investigating shamanic practiceand I joined groups and I
started getting training.
And a teacher told me, Hey,Scott, you've got intuitive
(30:31):
abilities.
And I didn't know that I was 20,what 23 years sober.
And I didn't know, he said,those things, about people
that's not normal.
And I thought it was just beinga good sponsor.
I'd be doing this.
I'd be hearing somebody's fifthstep and I would tell them stuff
about their life.
And they'd be like, how do youknow that?
I haven't told you that.
And I'd be like, Oh, it's just aand with some training, I was
(30:51):
like, Oh, it's a something it'sthe thing.
So look at being a psychic and amedium and an energy healer.
It's just a skill.
I'm a carpenter or anelectrician.
I just happen to have skills.
That I can read people's energy.
I know what's going on forpeople and I can help them with
that.
But that's from practicing the11th step continuously,
(31:12):
consciously, repetitively beingcurious about how I'm connected
to the universe.
And I still do.
I work with the elderly.
I do elder care.
That's part of my career.
And I work with people, great,wonderful people, supporting
them.
People with disabilities.
So I've left the corporatesector altogether and I'm loving
these people, these elders.
(31:34):
And when you come from where Icome from, I know surrendering
my corporate life because itwasn't feeding my soul was very
difficult.
It was a death of ego.
That was very painful.
And my partner had to support mein, in doing that because it was
really hard.
I had to get retraining.
I make a fraction of what I usedto make, but I'm so happy
(31:55):
because I grew up on the Eastcoast thinking, I can't do work
that I enjoy.
That's not an option for me.
My Italian family, mygrandmother used to say, life is
a battagli, Scottie Tomasi.
Life is a battle.
You're going to suffer and thenyou're going to die.
That's the wisdom from, sixgenerations of new Englanders.
Pull your bootstraps up.
If you sever your artery, youput a bandaid on it and you go
(32:16):
to work, and so all these yearslater, I'm doing work that I
love with souls, That I adoreand doing healing work that I
can't believe I get paid to do,but it took me far out 25 years
to believe that I was worthdoing, having work that I
enjoyed that it was apossibility for me.
So it's all from AA and thecontinuous work of step 11 and
(32:37):
just dropping, 1 of yourquestions is what a 3, what's
the greatest thing I've learnedis my sponsor gave me 3
statements that have changed mylife.
One is I give up.
The second is I don't know.
And the third is it's none of mybusiness.
That's my God, that's myspiritual program.
I give up knowing.
It's none of my business whatyou're doing in your life.
(32:57):
It's none of my business, what'sgoing on in the world.
I just have to be the bestperson I can be.
And just, if I keep the focus onme, if I keep tending my own
garden, amazing things happen.
I keep saying this to you, butI'm a drunk from Boston.
I'm in Australia.
I've been overseas for 20 years.
How did that happen?
Like, how is that possible for adrunk who used to projectile
(33:18):
vomit into his closet?
That was my life and look at itnow.
Hell yes, I'm incrediblygrateful for recovery and it's a
journey that I can't outgrow,every, I have, We say, I don't
know, this is something theAmerican say as much, but I have
problems in areas where I didn'thave areas before, like I have
home.
I own a home.
(33:39):
I have a beautiful partner.
I, none of that was possible forme.
It's so it's an extraordinaryjourney.
Steve (33:46):
Yeah.
And part of your journey andanother thing we have in common
is podcasting.
Would you like to share a littlebit more about your Fierce
Conversations podcast?
Scott (33:54):
Thank you.
I had a girlfriend.
Part of the spiritual work, Istarted meeting extraordinary
souls who were curious like meand my girlfriend started a
spiritual magazine a coupleyears ago called Fierce Truths
Magazine.
And part of recovery for me is Iused to say no to everything.
There's a story my parents usedto tell when I was first going
to kindergarten.
(34:14):
My parents sat me down and said,whatever, four or five, you're
going to go to kindergarten andyou're going to make friends.
It's going to be wonderful.
And I said to them, no, thankyou.
And my poor parents were veryyoung when they had me and they
were like, what the fuck, whatdo you do with no, thank you.
That was my, I didn't wantanything to do with life.
I wanted to sit on thesidelines.
I didn't want to play.
And over time that no thank you,which was my knee jerk reaction
(34:36):
to every opportunity has becomenot know, right?
That's 28 years of recovery issomeone will post something to
me.
It'll be like, I'm not going toreject you right now.
I'm going to go talk to mysponsor.
So when I started working.
Supporting my friend in themagazine, it was, ah, fuck it.
Why not?
And that's tremendous freedom.
So I was at her editor for twoyears, 18 months, maybe 18
(34:59):
months editing spiritualarticles, and we started doing
podcasts and had great fun withit.
And then it was time for me tomove on.
So I've moved on from that andthinking about my own podcasts
and thinking about what's nextfor me in terms of.
I'm trying to express mygratitude for 28 years of
recovery and the profoundchanges like I'm a big talker,
(35:21):
as you probably figured out, butI'm so undone by.
The thousands and thousands ofhours that I was going to say
alcoholics, but human beingshave spent with me throughout my
recovery, guiding me andoffering me helpful experience
that how am I ever going to paythat back?
How am I ever going to do that?
I try to, I've got my sponsors,but I go to regular meetings,
(35:44):
but man, I got so much to begrateful for.
And so many thank yous to givethat, I think it's time.
That I step out on my own andI've been shit scared about
that.
That's why I'm so proud of youdoing your own thing, because
that old gay, that gay kid onthe playground with the flare
covered pants, stands next to meand goes, it's unsafe.
It's unsafe to step out.
(36:05):
Don't step out from your comfortzone.
For me, I've had to come out anumber of times.
I came out as gay at 26, cameout as a recovering alcoholic at
30, came out as a psychic andmedium at.
What 55 age 55 and now it's,coming out again as, as somebody
who wants to be more connectedto my spirituality and more open
(36:26):
publicly about that.
1 of the things they taught meis I thought growing up that
courage was the absence of fearand.
A is taught me that courage isreal.
Courage is being scared,shitless and still taking the
action, taking the healthyaction, not stupid action, not
step in front of a train action,but well considered action with
(36:49):
your sponsors input, blah, blah,blah.
And that to me is.
Another gift right being scaredshitless like I recognized the
scared gay kid says don't putyourself out there But it's in
conflict with wanting to sayThank you for the incredible
life that I've been given andwanting to help other people
have their best life So
Steve (37:08):
yeah,
Scott (37:08):
so
Steve (37:08):
it
Scott (37:08):
continues to unfold.
Steve (37:10):
Yeah, and you mentioned, you know how you're helping
other people I mean if you cangive one piece of advice to
someone who's sober curious ornewly sober What would that be
Scott (37:21):
If you think if someone, if you think you have a problem
with alcohol, you probably dopeople that don't have a problem
with alcohol, rarely think aboutwhether they have a problem with
alcohol, so I would say tosomebody, alcoholism is a
disease.
It's nothing to be ashamed of.
And I had so much, I was like,Oh, fuck.
(37:42):
I'm a sissy Mary.
And now I can't drink like aman.
Oh, God damn it.
And I talked about Phyllis.
I have the voice of my addict.
I call Phyllis.
She's a 70 year old woman wholives in a dirty caravan in
Scottsdale, Arizona.
And she smokes unfiltered, coolcigarettes and her hair's always
in curlers, but that's Phyllis,is, Oh, I don't know what this
is all hell.
You suck.
(38:02):
I suck.
And it's But there's no shame tobeing an alcoholic.
If you have a progressive faith,if you, my sister had double
breast cancer, my sister did nothave to work through toxic shame
about cancer.
She was like, it's cancer.
So for somebody who's thinkingabout alcoholism, if you have a
problem with alcohol, there's noshame in that just means you
can't metabolize alcohol likeother people.
(38:25):
My partner It's allergic tostrawberry jam as an example, he
doesn't spend years going on.
Maybe it's not strawberry jam.
Maybe it should be blueberryjam.
I'll try blueberry jam.
He had an allergic reaction tostrawberry jam.
He doesn't eat strawberriesanymore.
You know what I mean?
If you have an allergy, it'sjust think about that.
Come give us a red hot go.
And I used to think this was acult.
(38:46):
And I said to my first sponsor,oh, this is a cult.
And he's interesting.
It's a cult that you can comeand go and you never have to
come back here.
And, that's fine.
And I said, oh, you want to getall my money.
And he said, no, it's just asuggestion.
You can contribute or not, butwe're glad you're here.
And I said to him, I thinkyou're trying to brainwash me.
And he said, Oh honey, yourbrain could use a wash, so just
come here and check it out withan open mind.
(39:08):
Look for the similarities.
I'm always looking for thedifferences.
He's tall.
She's this, and it's just comelisten.
Is there something here thatresonates in your soul, in our
messages about Our disease andhaving found a way out.
If something resonates with yourheart, give yourself the gift of
checking it out.
Steve (39:27):
Yeah.
And speaking of thingsresonating with your heart in
recovery, us addicts typicallylove our steps, traditions, and
sayings.
Do you have a favorite mantra orquote to live by?
Scott (39:40):
Look I've spent time in Al Anon and Debtor's Anonymous
too.
So there's so much wisdom in allthe affiliated 12 step programs.
But I think the thing mysponsors told me, I give up, I
don't know, and it's none of mybusiness.
That's the thing that saves myass and probably.
Close behind that is when itsays in the big book, practicing
restraint of tongue and pencarries a top priority for us,
(40:02):
like keeping my mouth shut ornot.
Don't send that text.
Don't tell that person whenyou're triggered in your
instincts for security, selfesteem, personal relations,
pocketbook and sex, when you'retriggered, don't do anything,
pause and breathe.
That moment of.
Grace, we call it in recovery,between my reaction, my
(40:23):
triggered reaction and myresponse that golden moment of
don't count to 10 has saved mylife more times than I can tell
you.
So that's probably that I usethat on a daily basis.
Steve (40:33):
Yeah.
Excellent.
Thank you so much.
And thank you so much for beingon.
Tell our listeners a little bitmore about how they can find you
if they want more Scott.
Scott (40:42):
Contact me, I'm in meetings hopefully, and we're
all remaining anonymous witheach other, but you can find me.
I've got a website Scott Grasso,Scott dot Grasso, where you can
talk about my services.
I do stuff online as well as inperson and I'm on Insta, Scott
T.
Grasso.
And so yeah, and Facebook.
So I'm happy to connect withpeople and happy to support them
in their recovery journey.
(41:03):
So what a joy.
Thank you.
What a joy seeing you.
What a joy that you're excited.
I'm excited that you're excitedabout your recovery and yeah, I
look forward to the dialoguecontinuing.
Steve (41:13):
Yeah.
Excellent.
Thank you so much again, andthank you listeners for
listening to another episode ofGA.
Please rate and review.
If you found this informationhelpful, if you're interested in
sharing your story, like Scotthere, getting involved with the
show or just saying, hi, alwayslove to hear from you.
You can email me at gay, apodcast at gmail.
com or find me on Instagram atgay, a podcast.
(41:33):
And be sure to follow uswherever you're listening so you
can get new episodes when theycome out every Monday and
Thursday.
And until next time, stay sober,friends.
Hello there super sober heroes and welcome to a brand
new episode of gay a the queersober hero show I'm your host
sober steve the podcast guy herewith 1294 days of sobriety and I
am so grateful for anotherchance to dive deep Back into
the vault, filled with amazingexperience, strength, wisdom,
(00:22):
and hope that we've gotten tolisten to over the past 200 plus
episodes.
And since not all of you havebeen around since the beginning,
this is a great chance to hearsome great shares that have
stuck with me years after I'veheard them, including this
episode with Scott from almost athousand days ago, which I still
think about regularly, it speaksfor itself.
(00:44):
So I'll let you enjoy it.
hi everyone and welcome to GayA, a podcast about sobriety for
the LGBT plus community and ourallies.
I'm your host, Steve BennettMartin.
I am an alcoholic and I amgrateful for my career where I
get to help seniors.
(01:04):
As of this recording, I am 330days sober, and today we're
welcoming a guest to share theirexperience, wisdom, and hope
with you.
Welcome to the show, Scott.
Scott (01:13):
Why?
Thank you, Steve.
I'm delighted to be here.
Scott G, a recovering alcoholic,here with you today, and all the
way from Queensland in the statein Australia, on the East Coast.
Wow.
Thank you, Steve.
Very far away from where I gotsober in Boston, but that's part
of the sobriety journey.
Steve (01:32):
Excellent.
Then to get started, why don'tyou tell us about what your
sobriety journey was like?
Scott (01:37):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And please feel free to flash,time card signs at me.
Look, I guess just for anybodylistening, I just wanna, I used
to work in marketing for, as myfirst career, and we always had
to run everything past the legaldepartment.
So the legal department, for aa.
I am not a spokesperson for aa.
I'm just a garden variety drunk.
So for anybody listening I don'trepresent AA or any, AA has no
(01:59):
opinions on everything.
I have lots of them, but, and soit's okay to disagree with me
and it's okay to not like me.
And don't, please don't hold itagainst any of the 12 step
fellowships.
I'm just this idiot sharing, tothe best of my knowledge, and
ability, the, my experience,strength, and hope.
So look, I grew up in WesternMassachusetts on the East Coast
of, in Mass, on the States,really, and and a super gay kid.
(02:22):
So for any, this idea foranybody who's listening, who
lives, a queer lifestyle in anyof its permutations, I was, the
super queerest kid in the 1970sin a town, a very well affluent
town where a lot of the leadingfamilies trace their lineage
back to the Mayflower is thatkind of uptight Protestant shit
going down.
(02:42):
And I was Catholic and I wasItalian.
So that was bad.
My surname ended with a vowelwhen, everyone was like, had
three hyphenated names, Smith toCantor Jones, that kind of
stuff.
And And I wore bright greenflare trousers when all the
other boys wore blue jeans, likeI wear pink shirts.
I was really out there.
And part of my recovery journeyhas been going back and spending
(03:04):
time with that kid and saying,you were so fierce.
Like you were fierce when thatword didn't exist, but I got my
ass whooped like for all throughschool, I was bullied and
terrorized.
And I had to seek outside helpfor that.
Because what it did was it mademe feel unsafe and not felt
unsafe.
(03:24):
Like I was unsafe.
People would walk down thehallway and be like, I'm going
to beat you up after school.
Yeah.
And I had this, if you, anyone,and you may be too young, the,
in the wizard of Oz, Miss Gulch,who's the, becomes the wicked
witch of the West has an oldbicycle, an upright bicycle that
she rides.
And I had one of those in powderblue and it had chrome fenders.
And I used to put colorfulthings in the spokes.
(03:46):
I think I was so gay.
I was like, satellites could seeme from space.
I was so gay, but I, and I had achrome headlight that I was
particularly obsessed with.
And so somebody would saythey're going to beat me up and
I'd have to gather my books by214 and 215.
When the alarm went off, I'd runto my miss sculpt bike, get and
pedal my ass off school grounds.
And that fucks with you, likethat's trauma.
(04:09):
I didn't know the word traumaexisted until I got sober, but
that was traumatic.
And I come from a long line ofalcoholic, half of my family is
Italian.
And to the best of my knowledge,there's no alcoholism there.
There's French Canadian, myfamily, there's no alcoholism
there.
I have some native Americanancestry.
That's a problem because nativeAmericans, there's a belief that
(04:31):
they can't metabolize alcohol.
And I have one great grandparentwho's Irish.
Fitzgerald and all of thealcoholics come falling out of
the closet.
Over the centuries through theFitzgerald line.
So I believe very passionatelythat alcoholism is a disease and
it's inherited genetically.
My mom and her sisters areaffected badly by the diseases,
(04:53):
the, of alcoholism andaddiction.
My 59 from this disease.
So it's deadly and it's.
Killed a lot of members in myfamily, basically.
So I was just the next in line.
So I think that, there's alwaysone of your questions was, what
effect did my sexuality have onit?
So absolutely.
It was part of feelingdifferent, but alcoholics, we
(05:15):
now feel different anyway.
So as I felt different times 20and the trauma absolutely
contributed to my need.
To escape in whatever way thatwas.
So when alcohol came along, Iwas the last of my friends to
drink because I saw how stupidthey were.
But I vivid, and this is a signof alcoholism.
Alcoholics remember their firstdrink, right?
(05:35):
So ordinary drinkers do not.
So I remember it was a Millerhighlife beer and I hated the
taste, but my friends were alldrinking and I drank it with one
of my friends gave me a straw.
So I drank a Miller High Lifebeer out of a straw and he said,
drink it quickly.
And I drank it quickly and hatedthe taste, but really liked the
effect.
(05:55):
Really liked it.
And for a queer kid who felt onthe outside of society, I never,
alcohol never made me feel likeI fit in, but it made me feel
Like, I didn't care that Ididn't fit in, if that made
sense.
It was just a relief.
It was just a period of relief.
And I'll tell you that I wouldstill be drinking, Steve, if it
still worked, if I got thatrelief.
(06:16):
But alcohol stopped workingrelatively quickly.
I had my first drink at maybe 15and a half, and I was in AA at
29.
Like Dunsky, like cooked, fried,so I believe that I'm addicted
to alcohol.
I, it triggers a compulsion inme and an obsession.
I would, when I wasn't drinkingabout, I had a very complex, I'm
(06:38):
a Virgo.
My, my star sign is a Virgo andVirgos are very organized.
We're the very organized andwe're right about everything.
It's just annoying.
Virgos are annoying to know andlet alone be in a relationship
with.
But I used to organize like whoI was going to drink with when,
and this was in my mid twenties.
This is how bad I was.
It's not like he saw me drunklast week.
He can't see me.
So I was organizing where I wasgoing and who I was going with
(07:00):
and who had seen me and whichliquor store I had been in too
often.
And that's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work.
And as a blackout drinker, by mymid twenties, I would take
drinks and then wake up.
I take a drink in Boston andwake up in New Hampshire.
No idea how I got over statelines and, once I was quasi
(07:20):
kidnapped, in a blackout andwoke up in a totally different
town from where I'd beendrinking and no idea where I
was.
And I thought that drama wasliving.
I thought that was, wow, look atme being out there.
I'm a suburban boy.
Look at me in New Hampshire,waking up in a, in a woodpile.
I, one of my friends when I gotsober told me that he saved my
life.
Because on a ski trip in NewHampshire, I went outside and
(07:42):
passed out face down in a snowpile.
And if they hadn't found me, Icould have died of hypothermia.
So that was just, that's how Idrank.
I drank like a pig.
And my people say, what's yourdrug of choice?
My drug of choice?
More.
And back when I was drinking inthe 80s and 90s, I had a real
thing about drugs.
Drugs are for dirty people.
I was from the nice suburbsuntil I got drunk.
(08:03):
And then you offered mesomething for free.
And then it was like, sure.
And then I judge you, I wouldn'tpay for it.
I'd smoke your pot.
I do your coke.
I'd never pay you for it.
And then I'd scorn you the nextday for your drug addiction
problem.
Just a little smug bastard Iwas.
And look, the bottom line is Igot into dangerous situations
with dangerous people.
I ended up dating a bartender ina gay bar because I figured out,
(08:26):
this is a very good strategy, bythe way, if you are having sex
with a bartender, you never haveto wait for drinks.
That's a bit anybody who's stilldrinking.
If you want to get out there,like date the bartender.
So trays used to come around.
I never had to wait because partof my alcoholism was once I
started drinking, I had to feedthe monster and there was no
waiting in lines.
(08:47):
So that was the scariest thing.
I didn't go out on New Year's.
I'm an alcoholic.
I didn't go out on New Year'sbecause it was amateur night.
And you had to wait.
It was about being social.
It was about I had to feed thedisease.
So two things happened when Iwas 29.
One was I was dating a super hotFrenchman.
He was an interior designer.
(09:09):
He met me at the gym and he waslike 16 leagues out of my data.
It was just I don't know wherehe came from.
And his name is Ned.
And he was sober three years.
And I went to his house onenight for dinner and I brought a
six pack with me and Ned openedthe door and he looked at me in
horror and said, Scott, rememberI told you I'm a recovering
(09:29):
alcoholic.
And my response was, Yeah, Iknow.
That's why I only brought onesix pack, right?
That's how inconsiderate andselfish and self seeking.
I was that was just for me.
I brought what I needed on thisdate with this hot Frenchman and
he broke up with me.
We didn't date very long, but heanybody said something that was
super important to me.
He said, you're dangerous to myrecovery.
(09:52):
And it was the first time I'dever heard.
I knew my drinking was dangerousfor me, but I couldn't stop.
I now I heard that it was aproblem for someone else.
So that was the 1st signpost andthe 2nd was my best friend
growing up, had a beautifulpartner named Tim and Tim got
sober and we used to drinktogether and take drugs together
(10:13):
and all of a sudden Tim wasbright and shiny on Sunday
mornings.
And he wasn't spending his rentmoney, at whatever it was club
cafe.
I think it was in Boston at thattime.
I don't even know if it's stillaround, but he got, and I
watched the quality of lightchange in it.
And he looked shiny and happyand I had crippling hangovers
(10:34):
and often tell the story abouthow my closet in my little
apartment in the South end ofBoston had Louvre doors on it,
for air circulation and I would,my bed was close to the group.
The closet doors and I would, Iwas particularly allergic to red
wine and I would projectilevomit red wine from my bed into
my closet.
(10:55):
I would vomit through thelouvers and it would end up all
over my work clothes and all ofthat.
So I'd open up the next morning,there'd be stripes of red wine
and vomit on my clothing.
That's the kind of messy drinkerI was.
And it just, and I got sick andtired of being sick and tired.
There's, and the epic moment,What for me was on Sunday,
usually I vomited a lot becauseI was so allergic to alcohol and
(11:17):
I would, when I would go out fora night, I would put three extra
Tylenol along my kitchen counterand three glasses of water
before I went out.
That's how much planning had togo into my alcoholism.
And when I come home, hopefullyI'd see some water and take the
extra Tylenol.
But at the end of my drinking, Idecided that projectile vomiting
from my bed was becoming aproblem.
(11:38):
Not to mention wetting my bed.
And I had friends that wereshitting themselves and I knew I
was not interested in thatnarrative at all.
So I took to sleeping in mybathroom on Sunday nights and I
would, I had this reallyexpensive Polo Ralph Lauren
comforter.
It was very important that youknew that it was Polo Ralph
Lauren too, right?
I was all about labels.
(11:59):
I wore Brooks Brothers suits andI was very ripped and I did step
aerobics.
It was all about looking good onthe outside and having a God
sized hole on the inside.
And so I was sleeping, I used tosleep sideways on the toilet.
And my rationale was if Ivomited, at least some of it
would get in the toilet and therest of it, the toilet, the
linoleum came up around thesides in the bathroom so that it
(12:21):
created like a natural catchmentfor the rest of the vomit.
And I thought that wascompletely normal sleeping on
your toilet wrapped in your PoloRalph Lauren comforter.
I thought that was perfectlyfine strategy.
On this particular Sundaymorning I think it was something
like December 1st, 1992.
I had an out of body experience.
I saw myself.
I woke up on the toilet and Iwas floating above myself and I
(12:43):
saw, and the only word isdepravity.
I saw the depravity of my life.
I saw that it wasn't normal.
And I believe, and I'm, it was avery angry agnostic for my first
10 years in recovery.
And I fought by words, G O D andhigher power.
But I had a moment, this is atotal moment of clarity that was
not for me.
(13:03):
So whatever we ascribe that to,I now talk about having a
goddess of my misunderstanding.
But I saw that and I cried outand this is, I have, I find this
in most people's recovery.
There's a moment of truth andwhether they literally cry out,
I'm quite dramatic, right?
So I always go for a Jean PaulSartre moment, but I cried out
and said, dear God, if you'reout there, help me or kill me.
(13:27):
And I came to some hours laterin a meeting of AA, all right,
and my first year, like thisyear, like everything was
happening.
And I was going, oh, that'smysterious.
I wouldn't, I was just like,how's that?
So I came to a meeting of AA inBoston, and it was in the High
Holy Catholic Cathedral, Boston,in the South end and I was not
very happy with the Archbishopand the Cardinal at that time.
(13:49):
They were saying some awfulthings, but the, and I knew this
was, So much of my recovery isabout ego deflation at depth,
and I think my ego needsdeflating.
So my first meeting was in theHigh Holy Catholic Cathedral,
and I was an angry agnostic.
Recovering Catholic, you couldsay.
It was in the basement of thischurch, and it was next to the
crypt where the dead priestswere buried.
(14:10):
That was my first meeting of AA,and I thought, oh, honey, you've
really arrived.
Oh you've home run type, greatwork.
But I saw men, gay, it was a gaymeeting, gay men who were clean
and sober clean physically, andhappy.
And what I got in my firstmeeting was hope and they said
to me, keep coming back and theysurrounded me and they gave me
(14:33):
their phone numbers, which Ithought meant they wanted to
have sex with me.
So it's very, I was like, and Iscorned and judgment.
You're too fat.
You wear inappropriate clothing.
There's you're wearingpolyester.
I was like, reasons that Iwasn't going to be part of this
group but I kept coming, I wentto, and I only went to a meeting
a week for my first four months,because that's all I knew.
I was so insane.
I can't describe to you howinsane I was at the end of my
(14:55):
drinking.
So I went to one meeting a week.
Didn't get a sponsor, didn'ttouch the literature, didn't
have a service commitment.
And after four months, I went toSouth Beach on holiday and I
drank because that's whatalcoholics do.
And when I drank in South Beach,I was astonished because I'd
been to AA.
But I know the words.
I know there are steps.
(15:15):
I know I could pair it to youwhat it meant, but I got drunk
and one of those phone numbersthat was in my wallet.
I, and this is how long ago itwas in 1993.
I had to go to a pay phone atnews cafe in South Beach, Miami,
and I had to go to the bartenderand get.
Coins had to get quarters andput them in a payphone.
(15:35):
Now, my nieces who are in theearly 20s don't know the sound
that quarters make when they goin a payphone.
And, they're astonished by therotary dial kind of concept.
But I rang this guy in Boston,which would have cost a buttload
of money back then.
And I got this guy.
His name is Hebert.
And I called him and I said,Hebert, I'm drunk and I don't
know how this happened.
And he said, this is, I hopeeveryone has comedic
(15:58):
sponsorship.
He said to me, honey, did youput alcohol in your mouth?
And I was like, yes, I did.
How did you know that?
Oh my God, you're so wise.
And he said something that Ineeded to hear in my first step,
honey.
If you don't put alcohol in yourmouth, you can't get drunk.
And I thought, this is thewisest man I have ever met in my
(16:21):
life.
Ever.
And he became my sponsor.
I went back to Boston and webegan to work the steps.
And I'm so grateful to that manbecause he didn't, I was so
fucked.
My step one is I'm fucked.
My step two is I'm insane.
(16:41):
And so if I'm fucked and insane,I better look for wisdom outside
of myself, right?
That's step three.
I better look for God group ofdrunks or great outdoors or good
orderly direction.
And I've tried not to forgetthat.
And my sobriety date is the 12thof May, 1993.
And so that's 28 and a halfyears and how could a drunk
(17:02):
hopeless drunk like me staysober?
Remembering that I'm fucked andI'm insane.
That's my resting state.
And I know people listening tothis might be really insulted by
that.
But I say that with greatcompassion for myself and
others.
It's just if you're fucked andyou're insane, don't try to
solve your alcohol problem byyourselves.
That's not going to go so good.
(17:23):
Crazy plus crazy is going toequal crazy, right?
So this man started taking methrough the steps and he didn't
say to me, step one, he didn'tsay, Are you powerless over
alcohol and is your lifeunmanageable by you?
That would have been Mandarin tome.
He said, Honey, have you hadenough?
And that continues to serve me.
(17:43):
Whenever I'm struggling inrecovery, I've struggled with
credit card debt.
I've straddled struggles withsex behavior with food and my
sponsor.
I've had the same sponsor nowfor 24 years.
And he just says, I'll be off.
I'll be up to something becauseI'm always up to something, by
the way, even here, and I'llcall him and say, oh, God, I'm
in the cookies again.
(18:03):
Whatever it is.
We have Tim Tams in Australia.
They're wonderful.
But in whatever it is inAmerica, Fig Newtons, Mallow
Puffs, whatever you're, but,I'll find my face in, an entire
box of those.
And I'll call my sponsor and belike, I'm in the cookies again.
The journey to recovery startswith just have you had enough?
All right.
He'll say, have you had enoughof the compulsive spending?
Have you had enough of thecredit card debt?
(18:25):
If you had enough of the cookiesand when I say, yes, then I can
start to make progress inrecovery.
So for me, working the steps hasbeen.
An entire new way of looking atlife because I was so focused on
outwardly.
The last thing I want to do islook at my own shit.
And we're in the fourth month ofnow.
And it's the fourth step.
(18:46):
The fourth step changed my life.
That fourth and fifth steps arethe game fucking changes.
So I realized I was fucked.
I was insane.
I was going to look for wisdom.
So I got a sponsor, startedworking the steps, got a home
group, got a service commitment.
And in step four.
I learned about the instincts sothe most important, I think the
most important thing of thingsI've learned, I have a
(19:06):
progressive fatal disease.
That's incurable.
I can get a daily reprievecontingent on my maintenance of
a spiritual condition and tolook at my fears and instincts.
So my partner, Steve, and I justbought a beautiful 3 acre
property in Australia.
It's he describes it as we'vebought an abandoned boy scout
camp.
It's in Really rough shape.
(19:27):
And so I'm as a, as aperfectionist Virgo suburban
boy, I'm triggered as fuckbecause the gardens are messy
and the houses are falling down.
And I have to really, what I wastaught in the 4 step bar, I have
instincts for security, selfesteem, personal relations,
money and sex.
And whenever any of thoseinstincts are triggered, I
behave badly or I go into panic.
(19:49):
And then, and I also have fearsthat I'm going to lose what I
have that I'm not going to getwhat I want.
Or both and I learned that inthe fourth step that when I'm
triggered, it's not about you.
It's not about what you'redoing, but it's about my
instinct.
So moving into this house hasaffected my instincts for
security.
There were big gaps in the fall.
We have six foot pythons thatlive in the forest where we are
(20:11):
in Australia.
Like we have big monitorlizards.
Like, All kinds of poisonousspiders and there are gaps
everywhere and doors and shit.
So my instincts for security aretriggered as fuck right now.
And then, but when I realizedthat and call my sponsor and
tell him it dials back theanxiety, right?
So in four and five, I realizedI'm riddled with character
(20:32):
defects, all of my resentments.
I have the character defects ofpride and anger, every single
resentment.
I'm the character defect.
Pride is.
I know how you should act.
I know how the president shouldbehave.
I know the weather.
I know, and nothing separates mefrom my goddess, from my
spiritual self and my fellowsfaster than me knowing what's
(20:55):
best for you.
And I spent so many yearsminding your business.
Oh my God.
And I was full of helpfuladvice, but what he taught me is
that while I had lots ofopinions, I had very little
experience, right?
So I used to give my friendsrelationship advice.
I'd never been in arelationship.
My sponsor started saying, doyou have experience in this
(21:16):
area?
And I would say, no.
And he'd say, okay, restraint oftongue and pen.
Let's not give advice where wedon't have experience.
And when I got to be about 15 orprobably more likely 20 years
sober, it occurred to me thatmost people are not interested
in my wisdom and my experience.
And so nowadays, even with mysponsors, I've got five sponsors
(21:37):
at the moment.
I will, they'll be called,they'll call me and they'll be
talking about it.
I was going to say crapping onabout something.
That's really what I meant.
I was going to, but, and I'llsay, would you like my
experience on this?
Or are you just venting?
And 99 percent of the timethey're like, no, I'm just
venting.
I'm not actually interested inyour wisdom.
I'm like, okay, saves me so manywords.
I don't have to solve yourproblems today.
(21:57):
So look, when I did my fourthand fifth step and finished it
in Boston, my sponsor said tome, Scott, you've, you're an
alcoholic.
You've got these resentments.
You've got these characterdefects, pride, anger, lust,
sloth, gluttony, greed.
He said, first of all,congratulations.
You're a member of AA.
You've done your fifth step.
(22:18):
And he asked me a question.
He said, what do you want yourlife to look like?
And I was astonished by thequestion.
And I was a frightened kid.
I was never going to be 10, morethan 10 miles from my parents.
My sister lived in Boston.
I was never going to leave myfriends.
I had a great home group and Ithought about it for a minute.
And I said to him, I want agreat adventure.
(22:42):
And my sponsor, who was probably12 years sober at that point,
almost fell off the chairbecause he knew what a
frightened kid I was, and hesaid, be careful, the universe
is listening.
What do you choose for yourlife?
And I was as astonished as hewas.
And I said, Yeah, I want a bigadventure and be careful.
(23:02):
Be careful when your higherpower is there and you're
listening.
So I've my life took off thisfrightened kid from Boston when
I was four years sober.
I moved to San Francisco.
One of my sponsees moved outthere and all they had to do is
say to me, we don't shovel snow.
That's what he said.
I'm in San Francisco.
Great recovery.
We don't shovel snow.
Wham.
Four years sober, I was in SanFrancisco, and I met a guy from
(23:25):
New Zealand when I was living inSan Francisco, and we were
together for nine years, and wemoved to, he wanted to move home
to New Zealand initially, and Iwas like, nah, I didn't even
know where New Zealand was onthe map, by the way, I had to
look it up.
I thought it was somewhere nearDenmark and we moved to
Australia in 2000, and I'velived for five years, ended up
(23:46):
living in New Zealand for fiveyears.
I've been in Australia on andoff since 2000.
So I've been out of the UnitedStates for the most part for 22
years.
So how did a recoveringalcoholic, a fall down, queer,
drunk kid, From Longmeadow,Massachusetts end up in the
hinterlands on a in a rainforestin Australia.
I asked for it.
(24:07):
I asked for a big adventure andI kept doing the work.
I continue to do the work inrecovery.
I have a service commitment.
I have a home group.
I continue to do the work and mylife continues to grow and
change in unbelievable ways andthe work for me today is in my
11th step, continuing to try tocontinue to improve my conscious
(24:29):
connection with whatever thespirits of the universe are,
which for me is love, right?
Get out of fear.
And get into love and to examinethrough daily meditation and
prayer.
Where am I?
Take my own temperature.
I've taken your temperature fordecades.
I know you're flawed.
I don't have as much experiencein focusing on all my flaws.
So keeping the focus on me andtrying to be the most loving and
(24:53):
kind person that I can be today.
is shaping up to be a veryrewarding and busy life.
So yeah, so thank you for havingthe opportunity to share that
story with you.
Steve (25:03):
Yeah, it was a great story to listen to.
And with that, out of all thepositive changes in your life
since finding sobriety, what'sone or two that have surprised
you the most?
Scott (25:11):
As a gay kid, I had so much shame.
I was a sinner.
I was going to hell and mychurch confirmed that for me, by
the way, losing shame thathaving shame wash out like the
tide by doing esteemable acts bybecoming a person that I was
proud of instead of, I wasexperiencing so much shame.
(25:33):
And then I'd go out drinking andshame myself.
It was this repetitive cycle.
So not having shame dominate mylife has been the relief from
that has been.
Completely game changing.
I'm no longer ashamed of who andwhat I am.
I can say I'm a recoveringalcoholic without being
(25:54):
embarrassed by that today.
It's just oh, yeah, I've gothazel eyes and I'm recovering
alcoholic and somehow along the,that, that shame going away.
I could tell you now that I'm agay man of dignity and work and
I don't bow before anyone elsein the way everything was like,
hi, I'm Scott.
I'm gay.
Is that okay with you?
And today it's just Here I am,and it's okay for you not to
(26:17):
like me.
So just finding humility as mysponsor talks to me about a lot
is the definition of it is.
It's an honest understanding ofwho and what we are followed by
an earnest desire to be all thatwe can be and I think that's a
beautiful roadmap.
I know who I am today.
I'm an alcoholic.
I'm a gay man.
(26:37):
I'm a member of society and I'mpretty happy about that.
So definitely the shame goingaway was a big thing.
And the other thing was I.
I got sober in gay meetings, andso for my first maybe three
years, I was only going to gaymeetings.
So I thought, only gay, GLB,LBGTIQ I only thought we had
(26:57):
feelings and fears.
And then I needed to start goingto morning meetings at about
three years sober, because I wasblind.
Crazy again and couldn't make itthrough a work day until the
night meeting.
So with my sponsor, I startedgoing to a morning meeting in
Boston and there were straightpeople there.
And I was sitting next to thesegigantic firemen and policemen
(27:17):
and football players, and theywere sitting next to me and they
were talking about theiralcoholism and they were talking
about being afraid and beingunsure and not knowing what to
do.
And it was just, this wall camedown Straight guys are afraid
too?
I had built this narrative thatI'm the Sissy Mary who's afraid
of everything and everyone, andI'm the only one who's afraid.
So going, mixing more broadly insociety, I've realized that I'm
(27:42):
just a human being.
I'm just another bozo on thebus, that my sexuality doesn't
define me.
It's much more inclusive for meto think about my alcoholism
because I can go into a meetingand I've been all over the world
going into meetings.
It doesn't matter if you're aBuddhist monk or a sex worker.
It's just Hey, I know who youare.
And that feeling of communityblossoming around me has been
(28:03):
probably the other super greatgift.
Steve (28:05):
Yeah, that's amazing.
I definitely need to expand mymeetings a little bit more.
So that's a good kick in thebutt for that.
I needed to hear it.
And you share on your Instagrampage how you are an energy
healer, psychic and mentor.
Can you share how those giftshave impacted your sobriety?
Scott (28:23):
I would say that they've come about entirely because of
my recovery.
So in, in doing, in the thirdstep, I acknowledged, I was, I
acknowledged that I was insaneand fucked totally.
And my spot, I wouldn't get ahigher power and my sponsor who
busted me on everything.
I could never get away withanything.
He just said to me Scott, let meask you a question.
Do you believe that?
I believe.
(28:44):
And I was like, yes, I dobelieve that you believe in
something.
And he said, great, why don'tyou borrow my higher power?
And I was so busted that Icouldn't debate him.
I was like, all right.
And he said, get on your kneesin the morning, get on your
knees for two seconds and say,please help.
And at the end of the day, geton your knees and say, thank
(29:04):
you.
And I was like, there is nofucking way because it was just
what triggered me and my, my, myreligion of upbringing there's
no way I'm getting on my knees.
And he said to me, I'll neverforget this.
He said to me, Oh, honey, you'vebeen on your knees for far less
than prayer.
And I laughed and was like,touche motherfucker.
And but I did it and, firstthing, my boyfriend wasn't
(29:25):
around.
I got on my knees and I waslike, please help.
And at the end of the day, I goton my knees and I was like,
thank you, and ran.
And within a couple of weeks, Icouldn't wait, right?
So my spiritual press, I'vepracticed having a spiritual
connection to whatever is outthere.
It's led me to be curious aboutlots of things.
So I joined the UnitarianUniversalist Church when I was
(29:45):
about a year sober, and lots ofrecovering people and lots of
people in the queer communitywere there.
And that was amazing for me.
And we had a lesbian was ourMinister.
And that was amazing coming fromthe religion I came from.
And so I continue to getcurious.
And then I had friends, mysister had spiritual experiences
in meditation and she was doingastral travel at one of our best
mates became a shaman and shestarted doing energy healing.
(30:08):
And again, I always have to tellyou, it's never about virtue
with me.
It's always competition ordesperation that gets me to do
work, but I wasn't going to letmy little sister be more
spiritual than me.
Was I right?
So I followed her intomeditation.
I followed her into.
Investigating shamanic practiceand I joined groups and I
started getting training.
And a teacher told me, Hey,Scott, you've got intuitive
(30:31):
abilities.
And I didn't know that I was 20,what 23 years sober.
And I didn't know, he said,those things, about people
that's not normal.
And I thought it was just beinga good sponsor.
I'd be doing this.
I'd be hearing somebody's fifthstep and I would tell them stuff
about their life.
And they'd be like, how do youknow that?
I haven't told you that.
And I'd be like, Oh, it's just aand with some training, I was
(30:51):
like, Oh, it's a something it'sthe thing.
So look at being a psychic and amedium and an energy healer.
It's just a skill.
I'm a carpenter or anelectrician.
I just happen to have skills.
That I can read people's energy.
I know what's going on forpeople and I can help them with
that.
But that's from practicing the11th step continuously,
(31:12):
consciously, repetitively beingcurious about how I'm connected
to the universe.
And I still do.
I work with the elderly.
I do elder care.
That's part of my career.
And I work with people, great,wonderful people, supporting
them.
People with disabilities.
So I've left the corporatesector altogether and I'm loving
these people, these elders.
(31:34):
And when you come from where Icome from, I know surrendering
my corporate life because itwasn't feeding my soul was very
difficult.
It was a death of ego.
That was very painful.
And my partner had to support mein, in doing that because it was
really hard.
I had to get retraining.
I make a fraction of what I usedto make, but I'm so happy
(31:55):
because I grew up on the Eastcoast thinking, I can't do work
that I enjoy.
That's not an option for me.
My Italian family, mygrandmother used to say, life is
a battagli, Scottie Tomasi.
Life is a battle.
You're going to suffer and thenyou're going to die.
That's the wisdom from, sixgenerations of new Englanders.
Pull your bootstraps up.
If you sever your artery, youput a bandaid on it and you go
(32:16):
to work, and so all these yearslater, I'm doing work that I
love with souls, That I adoreand doing healing work that I
can't believe I get paid to do,but it took me far out 25 years
to believe that I was worthdoing, having work that I
enjoyed that it was apossibility for me.
So it's all from AA and thecontinuous work of step 11 and
(32:37):
just dropping, 1 of yourquestions is what a 3, what's
the greatest thing I've learnedis my sponsor gave me 3
statements that have changed mylife.
One is I give up.
The second is I don't know.
And the third is it's none of mybusiness.
That's my God, that's myspiritual program.
I give up knowing.
It's none of my business whatyou're doing in your life.
(32:57):
It's none of my business, what'sgoing on in the world.
I just have to be the bestperson I can be.
And just, if I keep the focus onme, if I keep tending my own
garden, amazing things happen.
I keep saying this to you, butI'm a drunk from Boston.
I'm in Australia.
I've been overseas for 20 years.
How did that happen?
Like, how is that possible for adrunk who used to projectile
(33:18):
vomit into his closet?
That was my life and look at itnow.
Hell yes, I'm incrediblygrateful for recovery and it's a
journey that I can't outgrow,every, I have, We say, I don't
know, this is something theAmerican say as much, but I have
problems in areas where I didn'thave areas before, like I have
home.
I own a home.
(33:39):
I have a beautiful partner.
I, none of that was possible forme.
It's so it's an extraordinaryjourney.
Steve (33:46):
Yeah.
And part of your journey andanother thing we have in common
is podcasting.
Would you like to share a littlebit more about your Fierce
Conversations podcast?
Scott (33:54):
Thank you.
I had a girlfriend.
Part of the spiritual work, Istarted meeting extraordinary
souls who were curious like meand my girlfriend started a
spiritual magazine a coupleyears ago called Fierce Truths
Magazine.
And part of recovery for me is Iused to say no to everything.
There's a story my parents usedto tell when I was first going
to kindergarten.
(34:14):
My parents sat me down and said,whatever, four or five, you're
going to go to kindergarten andyou're going to make friends.
It's going to be wonderful.
And I said to them, no, thankyou.
And my poor parents were veryyoung when they had me and they
were like, what the fuck, whatdo you do with no, thank you.
That was my, I didn't wantanything to do with life.
I wanted to sit on thesidelines.
I didn't want to play.
And over time that no thank you,which was my knee jerk reaction
(34:36):
to every opportunity has becomenot know, right?
That's 28 years of recovery issomeone will post something to
me.
It'll be like, I'm not going toreject you right now.
I'm going to go talk to mysponsor.
So when I started working.
Supporting my friend in themagazine, it was, ah, fuck it.
Why not?
And that's tremendous freedom.
So I was at her editor for twoyears, 18 months, maybe 18
(34:59):
months editing spiritualarticles, and we started doing
podcasts and had great fun withit.
And then it was time for me tomove on.
So I've moved on from that andthinking about my own podcasts
and thinking about what's nextfor me in terms of.
I'm trying to express mygratitude for 28 years of
recovery and the profoundchanges like I'm a big talker,
(35:21):
as you probably figured out, butI'm so undone by.
The thousands and thousands ofhours that I was going to say
alcoholics, but human beingshave spent with me throughout my
recovery, guiding me andoffering me helpful experience
that how am I ever going to paythat back?
How am I ever going to do that?
I try to, I've got my sponsors,but I go to regular meetings,
(35:44):
but man, I got so much to begrateful for.
And so many thank yous to givethat, I think it's time.
That I step out on my own andI've been shit scared about
that.
That's why I'm so proud of youdoing your own thing, because
that old gay, that gay kid onthe playground with the flare
covered pants, stands next to meand goes, it's unsafe.
It's unsafe to step out.
(36:05):
Don't step out from your comfortzone.
For me, I've had to come out anumber of times.
I came out as gay at 26, cameout as a recovering alcoholic at
30, came out as a psychic andmedium at.
What 55 age 55 and now it's,coming out again as, as somebody
who wants to be more connectedto my spirituality and more open
(36:26):
publicly about that.
1 of the things they taught meis I thought growing up that
courage was the absence of fearand.
A is taught me that courage isreal.
Courage is being scared,shitless and still taking the
action, taking the healthyaction, not stupid action, not
step in front of a train action,but well considered action with
(36:49):
your sponsors input, blah, blah,blah.
And that to me is.
Another gift right being scaredshitless like I recognized the
scared gay kid says don't putyourself out there But it's in
conflict with wanting to sayThank you for the incredible
life that I've been given andwanting to help other people
have their best life So
Steve (37:08):
yeah,
Scott (37:08):
so
Steve (37:08):
it
Scott (37:08):
continues to unfold.
Steve (37:10):
Yeah, and you mentioned, you know how you're helping
other people I mean if you cangive one piece of advice to
someone who's sober curious ornewly sober What would that be
Scott (37:21):
If you think if someone, if you think you have a problem
with alcohol, you probably dopeople that don't have a problem
with alcohol, rarely think aboutwhether they have a problem with
alcohol, so I would say tosomebody, alcoholism is a
disease.
It's nothing to be ashamed of.
And I had so much, I was like,Oh, fuck.
(37:42):
I'm a sissy Mary.
And now I can't drink like aman.
Oh, God damn it.
And I talked about Phyllis.
I have the voice of my addict.
I call Phyllis.
She's a 70 year old woman wholives in a dirty caravan in
Scottsdale, Arizona.
And she smokes unfiltered, coolcigarettes and her hair's always
in curlers, but that's Phyllis,is, Oh, I don't know what this
is all hell.
You suck.
(38:02):
I suck.
And it's But there's no shame tobeing an alcoholic.
If you have a progressive faith,if you, my sister had double
breast cancer, my sister did nothave to work through toxic shame
about cancer.
She was like, it's cancer.
So for somebody who's thinkingabout alcoholism, if you have a
problem with alcohol, there's noshame in that just means you
can't metabolize alcohol likeother people.
(38:25):
My partner It's allergic tostrawberry jam as an example, he
doesn't spend years going on.
Maybe it's not strawberry jam.
Maybe it should be blueberryjam.
I'll try blueberry jam.
He had an allergic reaction tostrawberry jam.
He doesn't eat strawberriesanymore.
You know what I mean?
If you have an allergy, it'sjust think about that.
Come give us a red hot go.
And I used to think this was acult.
(38:46):
And I said to my first sponsor,oh, this is a cult.
And he's interesting.
It's a cult that you can comeand go and you never have to
come back here.
And, that's fine.
And I said, oh, you want to getall my money.
And he said, no, it's just asuggestion.
You can contribute or not, butwe're glad you're here.
And I said to him, I thinkyou're trying to brainwash me.
And he said, Oh honey, yourbrain could use a wash, so just
come here and check it out withan open mind.
(39:08):
Look for the similarities.
I'm always looking for thedifferences.
He's tall.
She's this, and it's just comelisten.
Is there something here thatresonates in your soul, in our
messages about Our disease andhaving found a way out.
If something resonates with yourheart, give yourself the gift of
checking it out.
Steve (39:27):
Yeah.
And speaking of thingsresonating with your heart in
recovery, us addicts typicallylove our steps, traditions, and
sayings.
Do you have a favorite mantra orquote to live by?
Scott (39:40):
Look I've spent time in Al Anon and Debtor's Anonymous
too.
So there's so much wisdom in allthe affiliated 12 step programs.
But I think the thing mysponsors told me, I give up, I
don't know, and it's none of mybusiness.
That's the thing that saves myass and probably.
Close behind that is when itsays in the big book, practicing
restraint of tongue and pencarries a top priority for us,
(40:02):
like keeping my mouth shut ornot.
Don't send that text.
Don't tell that person whenyou're triggered in your
instincts for security, selfesteem, personal relations,
pocketbook and sex, when you'retriggered, don't do anything,
pause and breathe.
That moment of.
Grace, we call it in recovery,between my reaction, my
(40:23):
triggered reaction and myresponse that golden moment of
don't count to 10 has saved mylife more times than I can tell
you.
So that's probably that I usethat on a daily basis.
Steve (40:33):
Yeah.
Excellent.
Thank you so much.
And thank you so much for beingon.
Tell our listeners a little bitmore about how they can find you
if they want more Scott.
Scott (40:42):
Contact me, I'm in meetings hopefully, and we're
all remaining anonymous witheach other, but you can find me.
I've got a website Scott Grasso,Scott dot Grasso, where you can
talk about my services.
I do stuff online as well as inperson and I'm on Insta, Scott
T.
Grasso.
And so yeah, and Facebook.
So I'm happy to connect withpeople and happy to support them
in their recovery journey.
(41:03):
So what a joy.
Thank you.
What a joy seeing you.
What a joy that you're excited.
I'm excited that you're excitedabout your recovery and yeah, I
look forward to the dialoguecontinuing.
Steve (41:13):
Yeah.
Excellent.
Thank you so much again, andthank you listeners for
listening to another episode ofGA.
Please rate and review.
If you found this informationhelpful, if you're interested in
sharing your story, like Scotthere, getting involved with the
show or just saying, hi, alwayslove to hear from you.
You can email me at gay, apodcast at gmail.
com or find me on Instagram atgay, a podcast.
(41:33):
And be sure to follow uswherever you're listening so you
can get new episodes when theycome out every Monday and
Thursday.
And until next time, stay sober,friends.
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