Geek Channel 8 - Bram Stoker's Dracula part 2 - Geek Channel 8

Episode Transcript
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Eric Chatterjee (01:36):
welcome back to Geek Channel 8. I'm Eric.

Rosie (she/her) (01:40):
I'm Rosie.

Johanna Evans (she/her) (01:41):
and I'm Johanna.

and this week
Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Don't think
that I am speaking incorrectly when I say. this is all of our favorite Dracula. Right?

(02:04):
For sure. Yeah, this is. This is the one like, this is the one we've been working toward.
from 90 92.
But before we get into that.
let's talk about what we've been up to.
I had been working a ton like a ton a ton. And

(02:26):
I I'm thinking about going to an Oscars party tonight.

That's exciting.

Well, yeah, we normally have this thing in in the town that we live in, and I've been to it a few times, and all of that. I've got stickers made up
to
to bring to it. But I realized
I don't think I've seen any of the movies
like I don't think I've seen any of them. In fact, I haven't seen a whole lot of movies in the theater in a long time like it's been tapering off for years. Both due to interest

(03:08):
and. like the pandemic, obviously put a dent in the what I used to go see
and the the frequency has never really come back. And so there are movies out like right now, dune 2 is out
and it. Everybody's talking about it and like.
for whatever reason well with being busy with work and stuff like that. I still haven't even seen that yet, you know. So I don't know. I was just kinda interested in what you guys think about like

(03:40):
the nominees this year, or anything about that, Johanna, do you have any opinions? I know you're trying to watch them all

well. So whenever I fill up my Oscar ballot, I always feel this pull to root for the underdog.
But I'm just not feeling it this year. I really think Oppenheimer is gonna win everything. Cause it was the better movie. Just you know, the the writing was was well done. The cinematography is beautiful.

(04:08):
The
direction, you know. Nolan, of course, is a total master. I think Kelly and Murphy also gives a pretty knock out performance that.
you know. Maybe there's a little bit of competition, but
I don't. I don't think so. I think Oppenheimer is just gonna take it all, even though there are lots of other great films that are represented this year. American fiction is amazing, and folks should definitely go see that.

(04:34):
But I don't think it's gonna be Oppenheimer for things also like delightfully weird. So much sex in it. Emma Stone gives, you know, just one of her best performances also. But
I don't think it's gonna I don't think it's gonna beat. Oppenheimer. Yeah. Well, I've seen Oppenheimer. So at least I'll have that in my bag all right. There you go.

Rosie, you have any opinions on the Oscars this year?

No, not really, I mean. You know. Let's be honest with the awards he's gone so far it's been pretty much all Oscars and Barbie, so II don't know if I even made it to the theater last year at all. Just because
I've been. I've been living on the shoestring budget first of all. So it's too expensive for me to go to the movies. And there hasn't really

(05:25):
been a movie that would pull me to the theater. I'd rather just wait for wait for it to
wait, wait to be able to watch it at home.
Which is what I did with Barbie. And I think Barbie was probably the only movie on that entire list that I watched.

Yeah, I think that Oppenheimer was like a theatrical experience, but I don't think Barbie needed to be like I was. I saw it in the theater, but, like I don't II honestly did not feel
that it was.
It gained a whole lot from the big screen. Oppenheimer definitely did. But

I don't know if technically granted, gained a lot from the big screen. But it was pretty emotional and meaningful to see that movie in a theater full of especially young women who, you know, are, we're there for you know, a cotton candy, you know, fun summer movie. And the fact that it was also a pretty damn good feminist manifesto. You know it was. It was great to see young people and and not just women.

(06:32):
There for that.

But
did people actually get it like. Was it really a feminist manifesto not to bring Barbie up cause we've talked about it already, but, like in the Barbie world, like the men, are all relegated to
being objects. You know it's the opposite of this this world, supposedly in some ways, and and, like all the Ken's, are trying to do, is, get attention from the Barbies, and like, when that doesn't happen. Ryan Gosling, like discovers patriarchy and stuff like that. But when when all is said and done. It's like the Barbie world hasn't learned anything from it. They're like still, not like no men in power positions or anything like that in.

(07:13):
you know. And so to me, it's kind of like.
did, did you know? Was anything learned here, you know?

Well, I think.

Oh, go ahead.

I was. Gonna say I
I don't think it would have been realistic or believable for them to get to the end of the film and completely overhaul their society. The feminist manifesto part is the part where she just wants to be human. And they have that amazing montage of the home videos of all the women who worked on the film. And those moments are all just really human moments. And so so to me, the feminist manifesto part is

(07:55):
just bringing up the idea that women just want to be treated like human beings.
and and so do men like that. We all just want to be treated like human beings, and that the patriarchal system we have prevents either side from really feeling truly human.

Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to go into, like the whole point of the feminist movement is a quality. Not that women can do the same thing as men, but that women are treated equal as men out in the world, out in the workforce.
in our daily lives, you know. Because let's be honest, we still aren't. We're a long way from there, you know. Women still have to carry their car keys in between their fingers to go to the car because some random man might attack them. We still have. We still get grief when we try to, you know. Just get our tubes tied because our doctors were concerned about some future man we may or may not be partnered with.

(08:51):
So we have a long way to go.
And and yeah, I'm right. I'm right there with you, Johanna. I don't think it would have been realistic either. You know, if if the bar being, if Barbie world would have ended that way, I feel like it would have been more
realistic if they did like, you know, fast forward!

(09:13):
50 years! Regular earth, and there are, you know, men and women are both in power equally. Men and women are getting paid equally like women are not afraid to walk to their cars alone anymore, you know. That would be that in itself would be a huge step. So that's all I got to say about that.

anyway, Eric, I'm not sure this is exactly where you thought the conversation was going to go, because Barbie, of course, has been snub for most of these Oscars. But yeah, yeah, we can get back into this at some point in the future, maybe. But you know, especially if we do, Barbie. But

okay, let's jump into talking about Bram Stoker's Dracula from 1,992.

All roads, all roads lead to Gary Oldman. And finally, our road has led here.

Okay, now we gotta wait for the sound effect to go alright. Now background to 1,992 Rosie

alright background in 1,992. So first of all, I want to start by saying, and I don't care if I age myself, because I've already admitted like I'm pushing 50, and you know, like
Eric, you and I are, it's all good. So I graduated in 1,992.
So you know, you.

(10:32):
you gotta know, like.
I'm so excited. We're finally doing this movie, because first of all, he auto breeze is the love of my life and so, anyway, even though well, I'll talk about it later. But anyway, I was just happy we were
doing this movie so in 1992 we had our summer Olympics in Barcelona.

(10:53):
This was also the year that us had the the dream team basketball team with Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, and they won gold, the Washington redskins, one against the Buffalo bills 37 to 24, the Ibm think, pad 700 C. Launched in October of 1992. It cost about $2,750 in its simplest form, and it featured on 120 megabit hard drive.

(11:21):
Bill Clinton was elected President of the United States. Just really swept Rob right out under George HW. Bush.
and let's see, Jay Leto took over the tonight show David Letterman thought he was gonna get the gig, but it went to Jay Leto

(11:41):
when Tarantino's breastborg dos premieres.
And
so and and a lot of people credit this film, for you know a lot of the graphic violence that in films that came out in the nineties. You know, they credit. This film is kind of being the start of that
mortal Kombat became an arcade hit

(12:03):
one of my favorite qualities of all time. Wayne's world came out.
I actually have a picture from my birthday right after I graduated from high school, my sister gave me a wage role poster for my room, and I still quote this movie on a daily basis to this day. And last, but not least, Microsoft releases windows 3. So there's 1992 in a nutshell.

So that was a bit would have been a huge year for me, because almost everything you mentioned I have something or some kind of connection or story to tell about each item you mentioned almost everything you just mentioned. I have something I'm like, oh, that was a, you know. So yeah, I guess 92 must have been a really important or big year for me.

Oh, and there are a few more things. You know. Press Cross enjoyed success with Jump Billy Ray. Silas released his debut album, and that was also the year Miley Cyrus was born.
Yeah, okay, there it is. That's really the nutshell I wanted to mention on so

alright, and I was 4.

It was I already knew you then, too.

Yeah, yeah, we had already met by that point in time. So we've known each other for a long time. Okay.
Oh, man,
II want to get off on tangents on all those things like. For instance, I just listened to a podcast. About Wayne's world last night, you know. So it's like, there's so many things I'd love to talk about. But I want to get off track because we got a ton to talk about with this. So what? What was going on with the production for this, Johanna.

Yeah. So we have Winona Ryder to thank for this film coming to be as it was, she is. Wait already. You wanna jump in you. Wanna already. I wanna jump in. I already wanna jump in because I wanted to say that

in the past. Johanna has said that Jerry Oldman is the lover of her life.
In this episode. Already Rosie has said, Kenna Reese is the lover of life. I am the one that's out in the cold in this cause. I don't have that
going for me, although I do. Wanna say that. Well, cause at the time that around the time that this came out I was at. I was out with a group of friends, and everybody was picking the celebrity match for that person, you know. And speaking of Wayne's world. For me. It was like, like, Oh, yeah, Heather Locklear. Here we go. You know

everyone, everyone to a last person.

Well, you know, this was done in secret, and then we like looked at them all. Everyone to a last person picked would Dona Ryder for me

so apparently everyone thinks the world thinks that that I should be with Winona Ryder. So yes, but you did not cross oceans of time to find her, that's you know. Alright! Alright! Go ahead. So Winona Ryder. Last we talked about her. She dropped out of Godfather 3, and was replaced by Sophia. I love Sofia Coppola as a director.

Not kind of crazy about her as an actress. So what's going on this is this is the next film.

Yeah, basically, Winona felt badly about dropping out and wanted to make good with Coppola again in case they ever got a chance to work together. So she thought, you know, as
as a gift. She'd bring this script, and, you know, just try to warm up that relationship again. And it went much better than she expected it to, because Coppola saw Dracula on the front page and was all about it and

(16:17):
really interested in
making the film reflect the original intentions of the book and even incorporate some techniques from film making of the time.
So there actually are like, really no visual effects that wouldn't have been possible in 1897, which is really cool. It's mostly in camera effects or using multiple exposures in order to get what they were going for.

(16:48):
And almost the entire thing was filmed on a sound stage. Even the chase scenes at the end of the film were filmed on a sound stage with
projected scenery in the background. So that was something I didn't know, because this film, of course, won Academy awards for things in its in for sound effects, costumes makeup.

(17:13):
But the visual effects also very impressive for this film.

I remember at the time. After seeing this, I talked to my friend Bear, and I said he said I had seen it, and he? He said, Well, what did I liked it, and it didn't get
uniformly good reviews at the time, and he asked me why I liked it, and I said it. It reminded me of really old movies there techniques and transitions and stuff I haven't seen in. And he he had heard that, and I didn't hadn't heard that before. I saw the film. He's like, yeah, they all, you know. II he! You know I read something about where they were only using, you know, old techniques and things like that. And I'm like, yeah, like, there's like, you know, double exposures and stuff like that. Anyway. Go ahead.

Yeah. So
the fact that Copla approached this wanting to have this
more bare bones approach to the special effects meant that the costumes had to be a much bigger deal for this film, the things that that were real that you could see in touch. So he was all prepared to sync his entire production design budget just the costumes.

(18:19):
He was talked out of this, and you know they said, no, you you have to also have sets. You can't just have costumes, but the costumes are really spectacular, and Copeland made a point of wanting this Dracula to look and feel different from the other Dracula's. He didn't want
to see Dracula with the traditional Widows Peak and the Cape, you know, one of the different Dracula, and one of the costumes for the supporting characters also to really stand out as masterpieces in themselves, and of course, film did win for best costumes at the Academy awards so clearly worked out

(18:56):
there. There was some drama behind the scenes with the the making of this film.
I didn't know that Gary Oldman was a method actor, but II read in a bunch of places that maybe at the time that this film was made he was still trying out some method kind of stuff like sleeping in a coffin, couple of set it up, so that Gary Oldman was completely secluded by himself in order to

(19:21):
create that sense of him, of Dracula being apart from everyone else. Meanwhile all the vampire hunters were all bunked up in one place together in order to really create that sense of camaraderie
but one of the side effects of this is, everyone was terrified of Gary onset. He was super intense, like in Dracula mode all the time, and it caused an enough of a problem with Winona, apparently, where, shortly into filming, they were not on speaking terms for the rest of the production, and it became especially a problem when they actually had to go back and refill the end to the spell.

(19:58):
not not to jump ahead. But now that we've done a number of Dracula's. I don't think it's going to spoil much to say that the intended ending was to have
Jonathan and Mina
basically right off into the sunset together at the end of the film, and to end on that happy note. And the test audiences hated this, and part of it was also they'd kind of fed up

(20:23):
the death scene as well, and George Lucas apparently is credited as one of the people who noticed that they had screwed up the ending and suggested a change.
Originally they had just had Mina drive a knife through Dracula's heart, and Lucas was like, No, no, you established earlier in the field that the head must also be cut off. You can't end the film without cutting off Dracula's head. And so they yeah. And so they were. They were concerned, cause they were like, we're never gonna get Winona back

(20:58):
here to film this again. And they said.
Oh, if it's to cut off Gary opens head. Sure. Yeah, she'll come back for that. It's hilarious that the guy who had Luke and Leah Kiss is like you already established this.

I wanna say real quick before we get too far off it. I feel we hear this about every Dracula, though we heard Max Shrek freaked everybody out on set in. In no, in fact, they even made a whole other film about that shadow of the vampire like we heard that about Bella Legosie. We heard that about Claus Kinski. I kinda feel like we hear that about every Dracula. It's like, Oh, you know, everybody was freaked out and didn't know. You know.

Yeah, maybe it's all bullshit, and this is just lower that they're creating. But I suspect not. II think you know, in order to have the rest of the cast. Believe that you are a powerful 400 year old, undead, superhuman, that

you gotta act like it right? Ironically. The only person we haven't heard that about is Christopher Lee, the guy who actually, if I remember like, knows what a decapitation sounds like, and knows like if he was like a secret agent during the Second World War, or something, anyway.
Continue

so. That was that was one of the things that we can be thankful for.
Also.
Did a little bit of digging into where this fits into Gary Oldman's career, because this segment would not be complete without a little bit of my all roads. So

(22:42):
Gary Oldman had played Dracula once before
when he was 5, in a fancy dress play, and so he'd always had an attraction to playing Dracula, and when the opportunity came his way, because Daniel Day Lewis passed on. It was too busy with less than Mohicans. Gary was all over this.

(23:05):
his acting career up until this point had not been very successful. And Brom Stoker's Dracula, in fact, was his first really major Us. Film
or so he says it also, apparently is the last film that he had to audition for, and that everything. After this. They've just known they wanted Gary Oldman.

(23:28):
Everybody says Punk rock now, and it's been on the pop charts and stuff like that. But Punk Rock was a really small

niche thing at the time, and so like we saw it, but even I don't know even when we saw it we saw Sid Nancy it, but like it showed one time at a midnight showing, you know.

Yeah.
So so this was his first major, like, you know, big costume drama, big budget, big production type of film. And actually, this was one of the bigger productions of Dracula. Altogether, we've talked in other episodes about how many of them were filmed on a shoe, straight budget type, timeline. Not a lot of resources, but

(24:18):
with cobalt behind it. This is one of the bigger Dracula productions. So
it was interesting to learn that
Gary actually had a hard time getting started as an actor, he was rejected from the Royal Academy.
where all of his acting idols had gone. He mentions that Malcolm Mcdowell is one of his major heroes and tells an amusing and excited, finally met Malcolm, and his mother was there, and some mother jumped in and said, Oh, you're one of Gary's heroes something like that. So I thought that was interesting, having Malcolm Mcdowell in my head watching this performance again. So

(25:02):
Gary took this role because he was excited about the opportunity to play a character where he would really be able to establish the truth of that character. And if anyone tried to come back and say, no, I don't think Dracula would have done it that way, he'd say, Oh, when did you die and come back to life. Tell him what his character, what it wouldn't do. So he was excited about that opportunity.

(25:25):
One thing he says about acting is that when it comes down to it. Acting is an antidote to self-hatred.
which I think is really interesting to consider in the context of this character. In particular
he read the script, thought it was heartfelt, intense, passionate. and really excited to

(25:47):
take on this this version of Dracula.
which was
not considered
one of the best films of all time, probably still isn't except within our circle right here, but
it has made adjusted for inflation 473.5 million dollars, making it one of the highest grossing vampire movies of all time.

(26:13):
Wow, no. A big success.

Wow. Yeah. the I'm
looking for what? The name of the podcast is
that I watched the Wayne's world. On it was is a British couple of British guys. It's called the Vhs.

(26:38):
I think it's like the the Vhs strikes back
is the name. And I was listening to it on the road. And II listened to I normally don't listen to podcast that do the same movie we do before we record one. But I got interested in in their recording of Bram stoker's, dracula. It's a good podcast I recommend it, checking it out. But

(27:04):
But they you know it. Just when it ended the Wayne's world one started playing. So that's how II listen to that
but
their take on Bram Stoker's Drago. They hated it, they absolutely hated it. And one of the things they, one of the things they particularly hated was the British accents. They said across the board were bad. They said that you know Keanu was at the top of the tree on that, but that, like it was across the board. The accents were bad, and they didn't even like Anthony Hopkins. Accent which I guess he is supposed to be Dutch or something, but

(27:40):
they they didn't like any of the accents, and I got that. Got me thinking that
you know I hear about people complain about bad British accents. A lot in movies, not just this one. I have
rarely or ever
said. You know, there are a ton of British actors that do American films. I can't

(28:00):
or other. You know, Australian, whatever. I don't think I've ever been like that is a terrible American accent, you know. It's like a rarely do. I said that I said that only about the Texas accent in one of the Draculas we watched, and even that as willing to give a pass. It wasn't the worst. And I'm just wondering
how often you hear people like complain about people's American accents in

(28:24):
movies like foreigners playing Americans.

I've never.
I've never heard that ever. Now there have been times when I've seen something where you know a a British or Irish actor you know, has to have an American accent, Colin Farrell and true detective, as just as an example
you can kind of hear their accent slip through. But it's still

(28:53):
sounds American. But then, again, if you think about it, America, the American accent
depending on where you are in the Us. Is still very much a blend of
of immigrants and people from all over the world. So
you're still going to get like if someone came from a German family, and you know, and and and grew up German and and but in the South

(29:21):
they still might print out some things a little bit differently than other people in the South.

So this is what I was. Gonna say, yeah, I was going to say, I don't think I've heard British actors getting criticized for like generic American accents, but I feel like Kate Winslet took a lot of heat for
her Mayor of Eastern like Pennsylvania accent, and maybe I was just tuned into that, because it's the area I'm from. But they were making fun of her relentlessly, for you know, just kind of overdoing like water.

(29:51):
you know, like the way the way and the maybe maybe if you're trying to do a specific regional accent in the Us. But I've never been like that doesn't sound like someone I wouldn't run into in America, and I think it's because we are this melting pot. I used to go to a lot of government meetings here in New England, and there are people that have straight up British accents that live here, you know, that are not British at all, you know. It's just that.

I guess, for
generations, or whatever. That's just how their family sounds, you know.

Well, and apparently just just on the subject of Keanu Reeves. Laughable British accent. Apparently the problem was
that he wanted to get it perfectly, and he didn't, and like, so he was just trying too hard. And so it's not like that. His accent is inaccurate. It's actually that, that's all he's doing when he's delivering his lines is just trying to nail that British accent. And Copeland loved him so much as a person that he just let it go.

I don't understand what Kiano has on like, what dirt he has on big directors. Sorry Rosie, but I'm gonna pick on kiano for a second. Here he gets all these great lines, and or he gets all these great parts and like his his.

I remember.
I think a friend of mine joked about this at the time, and but I think even Cisco and Ebert.

when they were reviewing. This were like, it was like Bill and Ted's go to Transylvania. And like and like, II get it and and like that, podcast I was listening to last night. They were like, you know, Kieno is good as long as you don't give him more than about 3 lines in a movie like I love him in the matrix.

But you know. But yeah, I also, whenever I think of him in the matrix delivering a line, it's like.
I know Kong Foo I know you. You could take Bill and you you you can take. He, Anna Rees out of Bill and Ted. But you can't take the bill and Ted out of Keanu Reeves, and I feel like it took him a couple of decades. Really. Just drop that that doodish

type of accent that he had that. And you know II maybe, too, right. So he has that kind of going on, and I feel like it took him like at least 2 decades to finally drop it, and I don't now correct me if I'm wrong. But I don't remember him ever doing another movie where he had an English accent or a British accent like that.

No, he was in. He was in much ado about nothing, Kenneth Brandoff, Shakespeare adaptation, and he's up against Royal Shakespeare act
actors. And oh, my God! Does he stick out like a sort of you? Just you're like, is this a comedy? I mean? It is a comedy. But is this like, did they do this for comedic reasons, like what it's just really bad.

I love canneries don't get me wrong. But there's some movies he probably should have stayed away from or worked a little harder with the Code Shawn before he did the movie. Bron Stoker's Dracula is definitely one of them.
You know it. It was unfortunate, but he
he did every every other aspect of it. He did well in just not the aspect.

I also I want to come to Keanu Reeves defense here because of all the other Dracula's we've watched none of the Jonathan Harkers have been memorable at all.
and the fact that this is a memorable Jonathan Harker, at whatever cost, I consider a victory for Keanu Reeves. Well, supposedly, Copela said that he needed to. They that hark! Is not that important that already like so that wanted to cast a matinee idol in that role? Yeah. Someone that the girls would chase after in the airport. Quick, quick! Sidebar, is. It's him

kiano, but it's not like it's not. It doesn't come from a bad place there are. There are, you know. I would do this a lot.
This almost happened for real like I was working on a film with
a woman very closely and not gonna say what her crew role was and what my crew role was. But at 1 point she was on the phone

(34:14):
with the guy that was cat sitting for her, which is was Alex Winter.
Alex Winter played Bill and Bill and Ted's, and so I'm in the background like doing my piano voice and stuff like that. And she's like, kind of like, that's his best friend in real life, you know. It's like, so like, yeah, anyway.

(34:36):
You know. But like I said, it's with love. So anyway.
alright, we can talk more about this as we go, and I'm sure it's going to come up again.
II know it's gonna come up again.
But let's let's get into the oh, did you have more production notes, or is that it?

No just that I have a good segue? Because apparently this film was developed with the intention of it being turned into a graphic novel, and that a lot of the storyboarding and the design around it had the comic book in mind, and I hope you might be able to tell us a little bit about it.

I can't. I wanted to do to read the Graphic novel, which was by the same writer that that did.
Well, same writer that did Conan the horn of his off and one other that we talked about and and
And then it was illustrated by Mike Mcnulla, who did hellboy.

(35:38):
It's out of print.
I could. It's it's going for hundreds of dollars on ebay. So I'm like, I'm not gonna sink that into this. So
so unfortunately, we are not gonna go there right now. But if I manage to acquire a copy at some point in the future. We will discuss that graphic novel on this podcast cut for time and money. If you have the graphic novel, we'd love to hear about it.

(36:12):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm super curious about a collaboration here on that graphic novel with the you know, with Magnola right before he created hellboy.
Alright!
Let's jump into the the story here. This is the first time, I think we get an attempt at a Dracula origin story, and that is one of the things that I really liked about this. I think there was a local theater near me.

(36:41):
like what they used to call walk in theater before the multiplexes, and all that. That's right off the street is called the Esquire Theater. I talked about it before. When I mentioned that I was in entertainment weekly. Because I, the editor, and I had gone to see Star Wars there together.
And that theater almost closed. It went out of business or whatever, and, like the community, rallied to get it open back up. And this is, I think, the first movie I saw there when it opened back up in the early nineties. I still remember it was a winter night. It was snowing when I left it just sort of fit, so it was like

(37:17):
late November early December, somewhere in there, and But when I entered the theater and this thing opened in the Middle Ages in Romania
with. Vlad Dracul fighting the Ottoman Turks, I'm like.

(37:37):
this is what I've wanted for a while like, let's like, let's start the story, you know. Let's let's hear. What? Where did Dracula actually come from, like, you know?
So I thought that was really cool.
The armor was a little bit strange.
But yes.

yeah.
But and I remember the first 15 or so times that I saw the film. It would
kind of rankle me. I'd be like like kind of gross looking. Looks like the sinew of muscles. And yeah, no like it's not sexy enough for my Gary Oldman. And after like it, between viewing 15 and 20, I've decided. Actually, it's

(38:22):
really
really cool and not boring at all like I mean. And that's one thing about the costumes is they? They are not falling into any kind of predictable mold. So

points there. So basically, yeah, go ahead.

I wanted to bring something up.
Did you notice that the castle looks like
a man sitting on like a throne in armor.

Yes, and I was gonna talk about that. Okay.
I hate the castle. I hate the castle design in this. I don't know why they went, for I don't mind a more vertical castle, but it it literally looks like someone sitting on a throne, and it takes me out of the movie every time they show that castle

(39:09):
like it. Just
it doesn't work for me.

okay, looking castle, but whatever I want to defend it, I want to defend the castle
just as a concept. Not not that I think they necessarily pulled the concept off. But one thing I love about this version that I don't think any of the other versions we've seen succeeded at is

(39:34):
the sense of the novel being about the past like medieval Europe
and futile Europe that passed, colliding with modern Britain. and nothing
but like a castle shaped like a dude sitting on a throne
could really hammer that home of like this is a different time that

(39:58):
that they are from. And
anyway, I like. I like the touches that they have throughout. I agree with you. It is. It is a little weird looking and sort of like I didn't know landing on this one, but

we're like? Is that supposed to be the devil? What what is that? Is that the devil on his throne? What what is that supposed to be? I don't. I don't, anyway.
something else, though, that that I noticed very early in this film is okay. So basically the backstory to Dracula is, he is on the forefront of, you know, on the frontier of Europe, defending Europe from invading Muslim forces, and he is, you know, he is God's soldier. And then.

(40:46):
after this victory, where he like impels people on Pike's, and stuff like that the vengeful Turks, or whatever sent a message into the castle by arrow, or whatever saying that he had been killed and then
his wife! The fall, you know, jumps to her death.

(41:08):
He comes back, and he's really upset about this. He curses God's name, and he takes his sword, and he stabs the cross with it.
and the cross starts ferting out blood, and there's just blood everywhere, and like it's just gushing out. And then this is the point where I'm like, oh, so this is where we're going with this film.

(41:30):
This is not gonna be a literal film like, there's gonna be a lot of allegory in here. And there's gonna be a lot of symbolism. And it's it's so I think you gotta get yourself in the mindset with some things, and it didn't work with the castle for me. But for some things in this, you're gonna have to get your head in the mindset. This this is gonna be

(41:50):
a fairy tale version of Dracula. This is not gonna be a realistic version of Dracula

realistic version of Dracula. I mean, there are vampires in it, I know, but what I'm saying is.

if you watch the BBC
version that we watched.
You are gonna be able to believe that those people in those costumes existed in that place, you know, and time.
you may not believe the supernatural aspect of it, the the vampire. But you could believe that Gary Oldman, walking down the streets of 18 nineties, London, with John Lennon glasses, you know. Like they. I don't think they even had like you know. Sunglasses, you know, at that time, you know, let alone, you know.

swinging Dracula.

Yeah, exactly. This. All goes back to that whole thing where you can tell what decade of film was was was made in when it a period film. But you could tell what decade it was made in highlight when the seventies does the twenties. This is another thing where the nineties does the 18 hundreds, you know, since the linen glasses on Gary Oldman in the 18 nineties. Yeah.

Okay. So I didn't want to jump that far ahead, but I had to use it that example to explain my thought process. Now.
Harker.
who is a solicitor, whatever that is
is going to. I guess that's like the British version of a lawyer. Right?

(43:46):
has to go to Transylvania again. Renfield's been there before him. Came back insane. So now they're sending Harker to arrange the sale of Carfax, Abby and
I don't. They don't really go into other London properties, but they do say that he's buying multiple what? And you know, is this the corner, the market dude, you know. That is that is mentioned. We don't get the whole the whole like

(44:17):
we. We don't get the whole following him from location to location, like we do in some of the others. plants at the castle. Wait, yeah, go ahead.

but they do take words directly from the novel. We don't get the scene at the end, where
I always felt that same went on too long, and every other adaptation we watched, anyway, but the lines that they take from Harker's diary are right. From the novel. The I had this distinct feeling of going from the West to the east that they they drew out the important lines from those passages in the book.

Yeah. And the you know, the blood is the life.
We get that again. and we also get
come on

which line which which line the children of the night. What sweet music they make.

Yeah. So so go ahead and kick us through a little bit about the castle part here, which we we said in the past, that, like, you know, we this, the the movie really ought to start with the record of Demeter. But since we started this movie in the 14 hundreds, like, I think we're okay with having this part.

(45:48):
What happens when he gets there?

Well, shortly after? Yeah. So he transitions from the stagecoach with the other passengers who don't speak to him, but do give him a little cross and and sort of say, like, you're doomed.
Have fun with that. And he gets picked up by the other carriage driver, who has a distinctly supernatural aura about him, picks him up with one hand and transports him into the carriage. Just some nice touches there, implying

(46:24):
that this probably is Dracula driving driving the coach. They go through the blue flames, which side note are the only special effect in the film that we're not was not done it with a technique that could have been done in 1,897. It's one of the only things that's done in post, and I don't like this representation. The blue flames personally has it.

It might also be the only movie that has it. But I. It's in the book, it's in the book.

it's in the book. But why is it a circle like like? Why.

this is this is what I wanted to mention. There's a lot of stuff in Stoker's own novel that I'm like.
Why, what? What is what is this all about, you know? And it's a shame we don't have Courtney for this one, because I really don't understand a lot of the things that that maybe it meant something to the Victorians, and doesn't mean anything to us nowadays but this blue flame circles. They appear in a bunch of these things. They were in the Dracula graphic novel. The marvel illustrated one that I mentioned.

(47:29):
I don't know. I have no idea what the circular circular blue flames, and they appear more than once in the novel, too. anyway.

anyway, so traverses the blue flames, gets to the castle.
and
we see Dracula's shadow before we see Dracula, and
I love the use of Dracula's shadow in this film. I think it's one of the things that is
viciously lampooned in Mel Brooks's Dracula, dead and loving it. But the the use of the shadow here is really great.

(48:05):
and we we see the shadow, and then we pan towards Dracula, who looks unlike any other Dracula we've ever seen
the the white hair that
is done up in like a heart-shaped, you know. Queen of Hearts haircut right out, Alice in Wonderland, with the braid all the way down the back

(48:27):
is
both like
elegant and also disgusting at the same time.

Yeah. yeah, I
I gotta agree with that.
I lost my, but the shadow, the shadow, is something that goes all the way back to the 1922 does for us to right. We see the shadow coming up the stairs not or lock himself, you know. And you know, stuff like that. So it's like
it. It's a bit of an homage to that. Yeah.

yeah. And I think it really helps
establish that the character has a larger than life personality like so large that a shadow has its own
consciousness. But
and then it turns out that Dracula is actually a pretty polite host, you know, sets sets out dinner. We don't have any of the awkwardness that we have in some of the other versions, where he's like servants have the night off. Sorry I'm hosting you by myself, like he actually seems fairly welcoming, and Harker

seems more or less at ease, you know, laughing at what he thinks are Dracula's jokes only to find out. Oh, sorry! That wasn't a joke, my bad. I don't know about a great host, because he does like draw a sword and like like
at some point I forget exactly how. How he offended him.

but like try to see if I laugh at something.
Yeah, that the partnership with the Catholic Church was not entirely successful, and Harker is like, oh, yes, speech. I love this speech, though. This scene of we dreckles have a right to be proud that that speech, and

(50:27):
going going on to say the warlike days are over. The victories of my great race are but a tale to be told. I am the last of my kind
that this is another one of these places where the collision of past and present is happening. And
I feel like, in addition to the to the love story line that we have. There's a good case that Dracula also is looking to move into London because he is feeling increasingly isolated and irrelevant here in this castle, withering away just kind of.

(51:01):
you know, dreaming over his past victories, but
wasting away, and you know not the powerful man he was before.
and going to London and starting over is a way for him to
re-establish the
incredible. intense leader and powerful man that he was before.

Do you think that one of the reasons he was pulled to London was also because he felt the pool of Nina, who may or may not have been Elizabetha in a past life.

I think we can
definitely see that as a possibility that maybe you know. he knows somehow that London is where he needs to go. But
but II like that. The character makes sense as this sort of more rounded person, looking to create the life that he had before he lost Elizabeth basically not just in the sense of having a life partner, but also having

(52:04):
power and influence the way he did before. And and it makes the character more interesting like, I don't want this to be just a love story. I want that other part of it too.

Well, as soon as he sees the lock. It he's going to London like that's like.

But
before we get to that, another part of this whole
early meeting scene is. we get Gary Alden, saying. I never drink wine.

Yes. do you do. You have a pairing for us today? I do.

So.
Rewatching this film, I had forgotten about the
the scene where they drink absinthe!
So I was. I would have done that, but I had to come up with the pairing before I watched it, so I had already. I was already with my

(53:02):
pairing before that, and
So I remember. You know I'm a big Francisford Coppola fan.
Nat.
I think, on the podcast mentioned how we used to watch apocalypse, now a bunch, and in hearts of darkness, a filmmaker's Apocalypse.

(53:28):
The documentary Eleanor
Coppola made behind the scenes of Apocalypse. Now.
in that there's a scene where Francis talks about exactly what temperature the wine needed to be served at in the dinner scene.
you know, like he's picky about the temperature of the wine on a movie set. Okay, I don't think somebody watching the movie would never pick up on. It's completely irrelevant.

(53:57):
So of course, I said I needed to go with a wine from a couple of vineyards. For this. So I went with a 2021 Francis Copela diamond collection, Merlot, as we said, when we're talking about sideways. I love Burlow. I love Merlot.

(54:18):
I don't love Merlot, but I love if I have to drink a wine, that's my number one go to so.
So you know, I figured a red wine would be appropriate for this.
According to their website, the the couple of vineyards website.
And I always, you know, I'm skeptical about all this like wine connoisseur like it has notes of this, and I think that's all

(54:46):
bullshit. Oh, probably should put this at the top of the hour. So I'm gonna insert this right now and go back and edit it into the beginning.
this episode. this episode.
Normally we put out
all ages, episodes, or whatever. This episode is definitely going to be. I'm gonna have to put the explicit tag on it, because

(55:14):
just the subject matter. we're just gonna go there. So if it's under, if you're
under 17, go find a different episode of this. This is
where we're at. Okay, back to talking about the wide
according to their website.
It features well balanced fruit lush with flavors of caramel, ripe red fruits

(55:39):
like red fruits. What is that like? Is that like dog? 2020 s. Banana red like when that's a red fruit like red fruits like

there. There's like a ton of different red fruits, and they don't all taste strawberries, raspberries. Those are very deceptive.

So anyway, it features well balanced fruit lush with flavors of caramel.
ripe bread, fruits, and chocolate
diamond collection wines are made from grapes grown across California, and are carefully combined to create wines perfect for all occasions, including those special just because ones

(56:22):
diamond collection. Merlot derives its complexity and lush concentration by blending fruit from diverse Appalachians in California.
I will say that I made dinner before this and opened the wine early, and and II made lamb, and the recipe for lamb chops that I use is on like

(56:44):
kitchen KITC hn.com. You can look it up. I'm not going to go into the that because I wasn't eating lamb. While I was watching the movie I
had a glass of wine with Lamb beforehand.
But then I continued to drink throughout the movie, and probably probably wasn't the best idea, because I started getting sleepy. But the Winemaker notes

(57:07):
the 2021 vintage, which is what I had started off, cold and dry. Initially inconsistent weather patterns created a lighter crop.
but mild to warm
weather later provided perfect conditions to develop phenolic concentration and flavor overall a very nice harvest with beautiful concentrated wines.

(57:30):
the flavor, profile, sense.
cherry.
raspberry, vanilla
flavors caramel chocolate mocha ripe red fruits. Again, what the hell is that? And vanilla
blend 84.5% merlot, 15.5%

(57:54):
other in quotes ta point 56 gram slash 100 milliliters, alcohol 13.5. I guess that's a percent.
Ph. 3.5 6
barrel regimen portions of the blend aged up to 12 months on a combination of French and American oak.

(58:18):
Appalachian.
This was just a picture of the entire State. Sorry not. This is not a quote. This is what I wrote. Sorry
the Appalachian. There was just a picture of the state of the entire, the entire State of California, with different counties in different shades of red with no contact. So I have no idea what this meant.

(58:39):
and it had the word California at the bottom.
Okay, so they say, pairs well, with chuck steak and Lasagna. I went with lamb chops
recommended products. Okay, so so if you buy this from their website, it does the the
it does the Amazon thing where it recommends. If you like this, you might like this. And so the other things that it recommended me was.

(59:06):
Yeah, Rose, which is, quote
perfectly pomegranate, with a touch of raspberry and minerals. A bottle or 2 makes the for the perfect party drink or evening in
a Ga. 3 pack where it says Geo. Wines are light and unpretentious.

that alone screams pretentious.

perfect for impromptu. Get togethers, movie night, or sharing with friends. And then directors cut Sonoma, County cabernet. Sauvignon
quote outstanding quality with flavors of Mocha toffee, blue fruits. Okay, blue fruits. Is there anything other than the blueberries that is blue.

(59:53):
Alright anis include. And then finally, Sophia, okay, of course, this is the wine that's named after Sofia Coppola.
Sophia Minnie Blanc de Blanc's singles.
I don't know if I got my French right or not, but
it's the blanc the mini blanc de blank singles
and it says delicate effervescence, with a hint of citrus and flavors of white white peaches, mango, orange blossoms and honey.

(01:00:24):
Okay white peaches. And this

Rosie (she/her) (01:00:33):
the interesting thing about this is, it comes in a can, you know to which my reaction was?

Johanna Evans (she/her) (01:00:41):
I said I'd take Sofia Coppola in a can.

Eric Chatterjee (01:00:48):
alright so there we go. That is what I had, I will say, is a very good wine as far as wines go, but I'm comparing it to the last one I had, which is mad, Doc. So take that for what you will.
okay, back to the movie.
Let's see.

can we cut to Hillingham? Can we? Can we jump over. One of the things I love about this film is the way it weaves together the different timelines. So I love this cut over to Mina at the typewriter first of all, awesome that we get to see Mina, you know, confident and doing some of her new woman style, work.

(01:01:33):
and love the scene with Lucy at in what I think is
the best representation of the Western Reh household. Given some of the other versions of this, we've seen where it's been like horribly over, cluttered like
everything looks like it's made from pertinent out of the Sears catalog in 19 seventies. And, thank God, this version.

(01:01:57):
I actually really believe that these people were very wealthy and had good taste. So love this representation of the Westerner house and
the scene with
Mina and Lucy looking over a thousand one Arabian Nights is
is a great detail that I that is not in the book, but probably works for the period that this is set in.

Yeah, so this is. And again, now we have Nina, the
good girl, Brunette and Sadie the Sadie Frost, as Lucy the bad girl Redhead. So normally. It's brunette and blonde and the blonde is traditionally the good girl and the brunette is the bad girl. But, like I said in

(01:02:46):
in the twentieth century. We've forward. We flip this so and and and it's not even blond here. She's definitely a redhead in this
And red is kind of symbolic, too. She's wearing red dresses and things like that.
so

yeah, I mean, let's talk about our nightgown when we get to that that red dress, like some of the costumes in in this
are seem very period appropriate, like the dresses that Nina and Lucy are wearing during the daytime, for for the most part seem like perfect representations out of the period, totally believe they are Victorian costumes. The nightgowns they wear no wait, wait. Even the dresses that they wear during the day.

You know
Mina's is all the way up to the collar, like she's got a collar all the way. You know the dress goes all the way
Lucy's is off the shoulders like she. She's that is a lot of skin to be showing for Victorian. So it's clear that, you know.
you know, she's like almost 20,

(01:04:00):
practically a hag, you know, and and and
you gotta laugh when they're like Lucy's such a pure and virtuous girl. They say I'm like.

We talk about the same person here, the same person who was holding that knife. And so please let me touch it. I know. Right?

I wanna say we, I gotta give a shout out to Kerry, Ellis.
even on the on the podcast that I listen to where they were, ma, they were like making fun of all the accents and stuff like that. They had to give him. Credit. He actually got it right, they said, you know, and I think he does he? He is always good, and I feel like he. He's sort of underrated people don't talk about him that often when they when they're talking about lists of

(01:04:52):
really good actors, you know. and I've never
not liked him in anything, you know.

Yeah, he's chosen, I mean, I think some of it is he's best known for, and probably gives his best performance in the Princess Bride, and there's something in our culture about
not treating actors seriously when they're in films for children like that. Those performances don't count.
and a lot of the films he's been in for adults. He has not been a likable character, like II mean, I don't want to ruin the films that he's in, because a lot of them have a twist ending. But

(01:05:32):
But he.
he's not always playing a character where you say, yeah, I'm cheering for that guy so, and when he does it's usually a family film, I mean, even Robin had men and tights, I'd say, is pretty pretty family oriented.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
I just wanted to say to to give a shout out to him because he is definitely underrated, and he's he's great in this.

I also think he's important for making this trio of suitors believable. because
Quincy, playing the Texan, is playing the character of a Texan that is, in the book. I mean, like absolutely out of the book, but would not work standing alone, and we saw that not work in a previous adaptation, and Dr. Seward likewise, in most adaptations. He's like her father, or so like it, like no one is taking him seriously as a suitor. But the 2 of them paired with Elvis, who is the clear frontrunner

(01:06:30):
makes that whole segment of this makes sense, and I'm so glad it's included. It feels like a really important part of the book, and in most adaptations doesn't show up or isn't done. Well.

okay, where do we want to go from here?
I think that. I want to say although we jumped ahead. I do want to say that even back at the castle couple lays on the cheesy effects kind of heavy like this is definitely like
we're making a B movie. And we're gonna let you know it, you know. So there's like, you know, the liquid dripping

(01:07:06):
upward, you know rats running upside down. You know. Stuff like that. The brides! We didn't even talk about the brides. The brides have the ability to melt across like the vampire powers are real, are kinda like superman in this, where it's like, how many powers do they have exactly like I can't count, you know, like,

(01:07:29):
so yeah. And the bride scene. I thought, okay, again, we got to get into how hot this movie is. This movie
is
hotter than anything you're gonna find on like born Hub, or something like that. This movie is
fucking steamy. This is like there are many scenes in this movie. Yeah.

cause the book is steamy, like the scene with Parker and the 3 brides.

I mean, like, literally, the text says something, you know. And then, with her red lips. Her mouth went lower and lower, and it was just. It's just very clear that she's about to go down on him in in the book in the book.
you know, and that's just oh, my God! With the teeth, though, like there are more. Yeah. But I love.

(01:08:22):
Well, well, I wanna talk about Vampire Keith here a little bit later. But I love.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's just really really hot. That that scene, and you know they keep him.
They keep him drained in bed right? That's that's the whole thing. He's like. constantly like.

(01:08:45):
you know, he he's literally going gray from like, you know.

all the orgasms.
So what I want to talk more about the sex in this movie when we get to those scenes, because this isn't even the best one, like they they get better as they go along. But next I just mentioned that in that same piano Reese was literally a snack.

Yes, he was literally a snack, literally a snack. I'm just saying, Okay, moving on.

Yeah.
all right. So
then the Demeter, we should probably talk about that, because I don't think this is the best

one. We we decided another one. Yeah, go ahead. Can we spend just 90 s talking about the fact that this is one of the versions where Dracula brings an actual baby for the 3 to devour. I think every other version said, and this is the part where that usually would happen in the book. But it's not here, and this is one of the versions where it is there. And oh, God.

yeah, I forgot about that scene when I when I saw it last night, and I was like, Oh, God! And I mean, I was literally like, you know, just I had the hand of the mouth to shock, and obviously there was like, I completely forgot this was in the film, and I forgot how much I hated seeing.

Yeah, the one thing that's not in any of the movies that was in
the graphic novel, the Marvel illustrated graphic novel which I think is even more like.
gets you that this is like there is some serious horror going on. Here is the mother shows up. The mother shows up outside the castle, demanding her baby back, and, like all of that, you know.

(01:10:44):
and that really twists the knife when you read that part, you know.

yeah, I forgot about that in the book. Oh, yeah, that's horrifying. And that's another thing. It's like in the other Dracula versions. You know we get this hint of evil, but, like here there, it is not a hint of evil. It is just like out there, like
Dracula. Is this romantic character, learning, yearning for his lost bride. And you know he's crossed oceans of time to find her, but laughs when he has this child like brutally killed.

So yeah, if you want to see that rendered visually, I don't know if you do. But if you want to see that rendered visually really well, the Roy Thomas graphic novel, marvel, graphic novel of
I've said it before. I'll say it again. I'm a big fan of Marvel's interpretation of Dracula. Anyway.
Okay, so the Demeter not the best. I think we decided that that like when we're talking about ironically, vampire Brooklyn have one of the best like the meter scenes. This,

(01:11:51):
you know, falls back on what we've seen in some of the other films, and you know, honestly, there's no mention of the wreck in the morning, and them finding it and Wolf jumping off. None of that stuff happens in this. They're just like the the meters on its way. And then the next thing is, Dracula is in sort of werewolf form.

(01:12:13):
fucking Lucy on an altar like, yeah.
that's the next scene.

I have mixed feelings about this scene. There, there, sometimes when I watch it where it's like.
okay, this seems consensual. And then there are other times I watch it. And I'm like, no, this is definitely rape. And yeah, it's this scene I
I kind of prefer the versions of Dracula, where it is heavily implied. And you get the sense that

(01:12:47):
he is preying upon these women, and that there is an imbalance of power that
that makes it non-consensual, but that they're also like it's unclear, like they're kind of drawn to it like it's it's ambiguous in a way that really works in the other films. And it is ambiguous in this film in a way that

(01:13:09):
is really troubling to me.

Okay. So I had a friend I said had because she's passed away. But Goth woman who
loved Dracula and stuff like that, but had a problem with this scene.
and not for that reason, but because it reminded her of bestiality. And I'm like.
well, what do you think having sex with a vampire is, you know.

(01:13:35):
like, if you cut away all the modern like sort of
fancy sheen to it, like.
you know, Beauty and the Beast Thing going on here, you know.

Yeah.

So
and by the way, Beauty and the Beast, another one that we often hear like
questions about the like. Is it consensual? And is it, you know, even even the animated Disney Beauty and the Beast. This has come up, you know. So I think it's just something we have to accept as you know.

(01:14:23):
part of what Dracula is, you know. because is Dracula consensual or not like there's this like
it's not. But it is because they're under his power, you know. So it's like
I don't know. It's hard to explain. It has both aspects to it.

I'm gonna say it wasn't. And the reason why I'm going to say it wasn't is because she was under his power.
because she was under his power. She couldn't effectively consent.
so he really was attacking her. It would II look at it as an attack, because what happened in the end
she she died. Hold it! Hold! Hold the end of the move, you mean. In the end of her life or the end of the movie. You you knew

(01:15:15):
she was done like when that happened. You know that there was no going back
right.
Anybody that does any vampire story knows that, like once that happens, there's no going back. Nobody would consent to that.

An interesting little tidbit to change tracks. Here, Seward, is a morphine user.
What the hell was that like? We just get the scene of him shooting up the first time we see him. You know

I feel like that was a very 90 90 thing to do.
Insanity into this when I don't know and forgive me because I did. I had not read the book, so I don't know if that was true to the book, or if it if that was like, you know, a little nineties thing that was thrown in there, because let's face it. At the time heroin was pretty popular.

So I just to follow up on that, thought one of the other.
The themes that some reviews bring out is that this was happening during the height of the Aids crisis. And so you know all the stuff about blood and dirty blood, and you know, like kind of the paranoia around, that
I think also, anything involving needles like is connected to that as well, so so I think it's definitely in there, intentionally, and it doesn't feel

out of character for sewer. No, no, I actually think it fits, and you could see him doing that. It just interesting that they that they threw that in there, and it's also a one off, because they never come back to that in any way, shape or form, except he maybe uses it
on
Lucy, I'm not sure at some point. Yeah. But yes, the Aids crisis was going on.

(01:17:32):
and you know
yeah, I don't think it glamorizes it, you know. It's again to bring up Sid and Nancy. It's not that like hor horrifying, but it's there, and
it I don't know

bullet with him. I was like, Wow!
Good thing she didn't get with them.

Well, he still would have been better than Dracula. Right? I mean. So can we. Can we go there to the, to the subplot in this film that is not in the book at all
wholesale invented. And you know, I think, for a lot of people who are fans in the film love the sequence where Dracula shows up as this young, handsome Prince and John Lennon glasses, and one of the most beautifully tailored suits ever created on film.

(01:18:22):
and is strolling down cosmopolitan London, and runs into Mina in also the best meet cute in any of the Dracula film.
yeah, I you know. The more I watch this, the sillier this
becomes, but it also, I think, has some great moments like introducing the cinematograph and having that within the film is is really cool in terms of

well, it reminded me I mentioned the viewmaster Dracula earlier in one of these things, and a lot of the scenes in this movie, including the battle scene where there's just this color background stuff like that. Remind me of that in the cinematograph when they're there. There's also these shadow puppets and stuff like that. I loved those little touches, you know. Now, remember.

(01:19:14):
like
this production company is American zoetrope, which is named after one of those devices. So I'm I'm not surprised that that threw that in here. But the interesting thing is, how fast this meet queue turns into an affair like there's they're like off, you know together like like she says I have a husband and stuff like that in the first meeting, but I think

(01:19:39):
alright. I think that this
is something that a lot of people can relate to. It's like you know her spouse, or whatever is a long way away, you know, in some foreign land this debonair guy comes in, and it's not just that he's a prince, because.

(01:19:59):
like, remember, Lucy like falls for him, too, in her own way, and she was like engaged Arthur Holmwood, who's like the richest guy in of the lot, you know. So it's not just that there is this
magnetism going on. There's this like.
and you never believe that she falls out of love with Jonathan. Right? Jonathan is

(01:20:24):
like the safe lawyer like Guy, who has a career ahead of him, you know, and all that. And Dracula is like like the bad boy like you have the good boy and the bad boy, you know, and like, and and so
she
is kinda in love with both of them at the same time, or at least in love with Jonathan and in

(01:20:48):
lust with Dracula, you know, Dracula clearly satisfies some kind of a need in her beyond just her being under his hypnotic power, or, like, you know, maybe
remember, destiny stuff from like the 14 hundreds. But there is like.

(01:21:08):
I think, that there's another story happening here under the story. That's it. That is in the book. Which is that?
That
she is not as openly lustful as Lucy. But she has these darker needs that Dracula can satisfy.

Yeah, I think that checks out. And one of the things that's interesting about this first encounter there's is that it sort of has some back and forth, like. Initially. You know, Meina is very guarded and is like, What are you doing following me around? And then she sort of softens, you know. Seems like, Okay, maybe this guy's not so bad, and then he pulls her into a back room and is about to take advantage of her, and she's saying, No, please stop, and it's very rapey, and then

(01:21:54):
he has a sudden change of heart and is like, No, actually, I'm not gonna bite her because
I don't wanna damn her for all eternity. I think I love this woman, and then well, we get we get there. But it's an interesting
seen that has this back and forth for both of them of like, frightened of him

(01:22:17):
with really good reason, and then also drawn to you know the power that he has over the animals in this clear, you know, Charisma is just radiating in the scene, and she is the new woman right? So II think that there is this desire to show her we already talked about Barbie. But there is this desire to be like, yes.

girls, we can have it all like this, like, you know, stable marriage, but also inflamed passions like kind of thing going on right?
So yeah. So
let's talk about some overacting. That's not key. I know.

Strangely.
Anthony Hopkins like takes it to 11 in this like, Oh, my gosh! So much scenery eating by Anthony Hopkins, who never eats the scenery.

so
I think he took it a little too far, in my opinion, and also, I think, Coppola, let him take it a little too far, because, like he has a lot, he's hilarious, but but it's dulled by the fact that he, he repeat, they keep the same jokes in over and over like the like. No, I'm just gonna stake him through the heart and cut off their head like that was good when he said it. Once after he said that, like for the as a joke for the first fourth time, or something. I'm like, okay, we get it, you know.

(01:23:42):
offending Victorian sensibilities, you know.
I liked him. I liked his portrayal, but I just wish that they had
pat some of his lines. And
You know he could've turned it down just a smidge, you know.

He was a little over the top. One thing I. One thing I made note of was how kind of creepy he was, and I and I mean like
creepy in the way to where, when he first meets Meena, he holds her arms out and gives her a look over like obviously obviously being misogynistic.

(01:24:22):
You know the and and

yeah, he's got a dirty old man, Vibe, like definitely a dirty old man. Vibe. He's charming in all the other ones like

there's something charming about Van Helsing and all the other app all the other movies we've watched in this one. Yeah, he is kinda like, you know.

well, and I think a big difference, though, is in a lot of the other versions that
is British or like he's like part of the in group. And in this version he's clearly an outsider from the Old World, and sort of straddling the Old World
and the magic and mysticism and lore of the Old World with science that is ahead of the times. And so he kind of has this almost like wizard presence in the story in this version. But with that some eccentricities. Yeah, honestly, when I when I was watching, as I was watching and observing his character through the film.

it kind of made me feel like he was older than he actually was, like
minutes centuries older. If that makes sense like almost magical, mystical, because he seemed to have an understanding that other people didn't have a around Dracula, and even even when he was calling Dracula his arch Nemesis, it's like, well, how far back do they really go.

(01:25:51):
you know, because II it it may. The the film will lose to the fact that maybe they go back centuries
rather than you know he's just studied directly on his whole life as a human being like you. You see what I'm saying?

Well, and the film sets you up for that because Hopkins appears in that opening scene where he's the priest, so they kind of set you up for this dynamic, where, like the echo through time, is this triangle of Dracula, Meana slash Elizabeth, and the Hopkins character? Who is the the true defender of the church again, Dracula.

And there's yeah.

So yeah.
So
I like how I said I wanted to come back to fangs. Lucy, when they first see it, and he lifts up her lip and shows them the fangs coming in. I like how
cue the shark meter. They come in like a second set of teeth, like shark teeth like this is the only film I've ever seen do that. And I think it looks really cool. It's like a really neat way to do vampire fangs

that makes more sense to me
then, the way I've seen it done before, where the teeth, just like grow into things, where it's like a whole other set of teeth that come down for purposes, you know, feeding themselves.

so
so the
I think it's worth saying the the final like
confrontation with Lucy.
She like comes back to the crypt with a child as is in the novel. All the all the candles spark to life, power number 900 that vampires have

(01:27:42):
which makes a lot of sense, though when we look back at like remember, I said, Renfield had a light a whole lot his whole full time. Job. Okay, it makes more sense. If if we can just light all the candles when we walk into a room.
the but there's some stuff that's like straight up modern horror film stuff like she like spits blood out of her mouth like at them projectile

(01:28:11):
exorcist way, you know. So I'm like, Okay, that's a direct homage to to the exorcist.
anyway. And
they definitely ha hammer home at this point in time that that like Aids. It's a bloodborne infection, you know. That happens.

(01:28:36):
Okay.
Bena finds out that Jonathan Harker's still alive
and goes off to marry him.
Save him send off for her. So she comes to Romania to marry him.

Yeah, there are rumors that the marriage is actually binding because they hired a real priest, and apparently like went through all the motions. I think that's that's just an you know. Rumor

well, actually had a whole interview where they talked about that. II watched. I've watched it a couple of times, and so they they still to this day laughingly joke that they're probably actually really married.

Yeah.

so the
the she does does say on the train, or whatever when she's writing. Now that I'm married, I begin to understand the nature of my feelings for my strange friend.
or whatever. So now that she's married like. So I think what I was saying.

(01:29:42):
So there's kind of the I think there's the
this is the female version I think of, like that whole Madonna horror complex that, like men, are said to have like, I think, for her. It's like. seeing the guys that way like, there's like, you know, the

(01:30:03):
the pure guy.
And then the fun guy, you know, I think that that's kind of what she, the realization she makes on the train. And she's like, Okay, now I'm married. So I have to like.
you know. Go this way.

I'm here. I'm here with the guy. You know that that's good for a long time, and then there's the guy that's good, that that's here for a good time. But before that happens they get back to Carfax, Abby and

okay, so this is something that I've never understood in any of the Draculas. And in this one I understand it the least
Jonathan knows
like tells them that that
maybe I just figured it out myself.
Jonathan tells Van Helsing and the rest of the the Scooby gang. The Dracula lives at Carfax Abbey, cause he's the one that arranged the sale. He's a lawyer right. But Dracula.

(01:31:14):
Dracula goes and kills Renfield, and says you betrayed me, and I always wondered, why does he kill Renf? How did Renfield betray him? You know, although Renfield does tell Mina to get away from Dracula, but other than that which he did he had was not privy to, as far as we know. I think what it's supposed to be is, he doesn't know Jonathan's back yet, and assumes that they found him at Carfax Abbey.

(01:31:38):
because cause he fly he's in Carfax Abbey when they come, and he flies out, and then immediately goes and kills Renfield.
I think he thinks that Renfield's the one that told him he's in Carfax Abbey.

Yeah, if we go back to the book, I bet that that is more implied, I think in this one
there it still sort of makes sense that he you know the Renfield was badmouthing Dracula to Meena, and was like.
Save yourself. Run away like this guy's awful, and
that Dracula's like, you know.

(01:32:11):
you're trying to cocklock me here, Renfield, like, Get on my way.

I feel like Renfield was doing that because he was jealous that he didn't get his chance to be one of Dracula's, you know, minions or family members, or whatever he wanted. He, you know he was.

You promised me my eternal life. Yeah.

So maybe he still have a chance, you know.

So we have to talk about the scene where he tries, where he turns Mina, or is about to turn Mina, because this is the hot scene I'm talking about, because this is this is even in the book.
There's a scene where he cuts his chest, and he pushes her down to literally suck him off like that is the way it is in the book, too, like this

(01:33:02):
is. It's not just me. Right? This is like
like what they're saying here is going on here, you know.

Yeah, yeah, very steamy. I mean, like, when he comes in under the covers as missed, and then is suddenly like

full blown, hot guy like that's you know how a lot of fantasy start out. I think I'm not alone in that, right at all. Yeah, I mean, and where he where he scratch himself was even hot. You know, it's like right there, right in the middle of chest, right next to the right, next to the net. Of course it's hot, you know.

(01:33:41):
Yeah.

But you know. E, even in this. We don't see where her head goes. It just goes down right. And
I don't know. I me.
this movie is freaking hot and like I found a bunch of the scenes leading up to this hot already, like.
but this one, Whoa,

yeah. But even in the novel it kind of is cause. There is the scene like in the novel they bust in while they're in this act like, it doesn't happen in the movie here. No, it does, I mean, yeah, she's like pressed up against his chest, lapping up the blood, and then they come in, and Dracula's already disappeared, and it's just her like with blood all over her face and

(01:34:30):
And the mood changes on a dime in the scene. It's really incredible how it goes from steamy, steamy, sexy to like. Oh, my God, Dracula is a disgusting monster.

Yeah, we get to see
the we get to see Dracula in both, like I feel like every other Dracula film we've seen, we either get Dracula as the debonair Christopher Lee type, you know, ape, and you know, handsome whatever, or we get the nose for us to creepy deformed creature.

(01:35:10):
But I don't think any of them. We get both until this film. You know, this film was like, yeah.

different negotiations. And well, yeah.
I feel like this version, though, is the most shape shifting vampire we've seen.

Yeah. But I want to say, Vampire and Brooklyn came out after this. So this is the first time we get the that happening in one film, as far as I know.

Yeah. Sorry Rosie. What? What did you say again? Like? Cause I wanna follow up on that. What I was gonna say is like out of all the Dracula films we've watched
thus far. I feel like this is this is the one where Dracula does the most shapeshifting, you know. He goes from everything you know, from being like this, this ancient creature creeping around a castle to a werewolf, to a bat hanging in the, you know, hanging in the rafters, you know to this

(01:36:11):
hot young man who's very, you know, gorgeous and seductive.
and and and missed, you know, like he's just everything this movie has piano for you. It has Gary for for Johanna, for me it's

I don't know Sadi Frost pretty hot, too, so, but, like Winona Winona Ryder like I I'll just like accept it, cause she's awesome. But the whole movie has an error of camp to it also. So in some ways.
of all the films we've seen. This reminds me in some ways more of lair of the White Worm than it does of any of the other Dracula films, you know.

(01:36:55):
Yeah, for sure, it has that kind of air to it.
Just some final notes is Van Helsing has the cookery in this again, I feel like this movie like borrows our skills from all of the previous dracula phones like, let's take that from this and that from this. And you know, like kinda gets, you know, W. Put some all together, and you know.

(01:37:17):
of course, it's a Francis for a couple of movies. So like all of the godfather films. And we've talked about like religion plays a huge role in it. There's like it starts with God, has forsaken me. It ends with, we've all become God's mad men, you know. It's kinda like that is a theme throughout

(01:37:37):
us.
Unless you guys have anything else you want to say, I want to get all the way back to the end to like Transylvania and stuff like that. Yeah, I want to go to that chase.

Yeah, I would. So we.
this is the best version of the Chase scene. I think that we we see in the films where you have the
sun setting as this dramatic, you know, ticking time bomb that's coming. Dracula, in a carriage in his box of earth, is just about to make it to the castle.

(01:38:11):
Mia and Van Helsing are already there. She was sent as a decoy.
didn't, didn't work, and she is fully under Dracula's spell at this point, and is doing her best to defend him if she can.
Jonathan and Quincy and Arthur and Seward are in pursuit, and it's all gonna happen it's all gonna come down to the castle.

(01:38:37):
I'm skipping over the part where Draculas brides eat Van Helsing's horses, and then he yeah, which is awesome. But
II love just the drama of the setting sun. As as this is all about to go down, they make it to the courtyard, and Jonathan

(01:38:59):
is going to strike the fatal blow and almost succeed. Dracula pops out of the box, and Jonathan is able to run the. I think it's a sword. I don't think it's like us a wooden stake the way the way it is in
does he have a steak? Or that's not what happens.

What happened like unless we saw different versions? What happened in. What I saw was they're gonna kill him and cut off his head and all that, and the and
Mina's like. No. Would you do that to me

whatever

she goes off with Dracula, and this is a moment of revelation for Jonathan to, and stuff like that because they're like. Would you? Would you do that to me, too? And I'm kinda thinking, like, in traditional vampire, Laura, we'd be like, yeah, we would do that to you, too. I could easily see Van Elsing saying that. But but

(01:40:08):
Harker holds them back and says, You know.
it's kinda like this is something he realizes that this is something she needs to do, that she that that they have this connection, Dracula and and and Mina, and they have to resolve it on their own, and he allows them in a really like kind of shocking moment allows them to go off together and finish it. And

(01:40:38):
to her credit she does like. you know, stabbing through the heart and cut off his head after they have this last

moment together, you know well, and what's interesting is in this version. I I'm curious whether you have the same interpretation I do, but I get the sense that Dracula is absolved
at the end of this film, like you know, the the crack in the cross is healed over, and the ceiling painting is kind of illuminated in a way that suggests that

(01:41:11):
got that God has blessed all of this, and everything is forgiven which sacrifices that he allows himself to be killed. He sacrifices himself

to save her soul. Basically. So he is, this is my interpretation. So he allows he is like, Okay, we're gonna you know, I'm gonna like, Let you go. And
she is also like. I think this is a moment where it's like like. you know.

(01:41:43):
Jonathan lets her go because he feels like, you know, there is this connection between them, and they need to resolve this.
He is absolved because he sacrifices her for her.
you know, to save her soul, and she is like
absolve because she chooses

(01:42:04):
to return to humanity rather than to become a vampire and go off with Dracula for all eternity. So everybody sort of gets this cathartic moment of you know
it's over. You know, we we've all we've all satisfied what we need to do.

Yeah, he says, something like, Give me peace. You know that that ultimately
that becomes the goal more than sort of maintaining the selfish pleasures, or even just like a focus on earthly life. You know that, like a love that seems real, but is not the highest good.

Well, she like, there's a moment there where you're not sure she's gonna do it right like where you're like she's just gonna go off with him and dragging him into the castle. Yeah, she's the one dragging him in. Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like she's kind of running the show here right at the end. So.

(01:43:06):
okay, is there a. That's kind of the end of the movie? Is there anything else you guys want to say about this particular Dracula as opposed to other Dracula stuff like that. All I'll say is.
even though it's got can't be overacting, and effects and stuff like that. There is something special about this Dracula. This is

(01:43:27):
the best, I think. You know, this is just the best, and for all its flaws. It's one of those things, Laura. I felt the same way about David Loon's ditch, the David
David. Is that
even a bad. David Lynch.
Version of something is better than like 90% of other directors. You know, a attempts at that same thing

(01:43:56):
like I'm kind of in the same boat with doing right now. It's like out. Everybody's talking about it. But I was a little bit bored with the first one, you know, and I'm like, you know. So II don't know but with Dracula I feel like a lot of people have attempted it.
This one is not the most true to the novel, and it has a lot of flaws in it, you know. There's a lot of bad acting and like over the top stuff, and and

(01:44:23):
but it's still the best like it. It has its own interpretation, and that interpretation is like no, no other, you know, and it has like Gary Oldman, and you know Winona Ryder, and you know Anthony Hopkins, so it's got a great cast, and
and Keanu Reeves and Keanu Reeves.

the only thing we didn't touch on that I just want to give one small shout out for is the score in in this film is really well done. By composer. I don't think did anything else. We'll check killar
and this music from this film is used all over the place. If you watch movie trailers where often they're using a score from a previous film to set the mood. This score is used all the time that da da da da, da.

(01:45:19):
a lot of different music throughout the film, like the stuff with
the the dancing scenes, the more romantic scenes where it sounds like a music box playing, just

you know. Yeah, no, I have this. I have this soundtrack in rotation on my streaming services.
so yeah, it's definitely something I listen to
every couple of months I'm listening to this since since it came practically since it came out.

(01:45:53):
so yeah. The good point
Rosie, any last thoughts about this?

Yeah. So a couple of things. One you know, in the beginning of the movie, they do a lot of shadow effects.
That that kind of
provide foreshadowing on on not intended. But it's so there, you know, to kind of predict what is happening

(01:46:22):
later on in the film. And it was something we didn't touch on. But it was always a. It was always a feature that I've liked in the film. And it it kind of shows like
how
dangerous and and sinister
Dracula can be with with the shadow work in the beginning. And then another thing.

(01:46:45):
I know we touched on the costumes, but I love the costumes in that film so much. And and you know, Gary, Oldman's whole look when he arrives in London.
That look was repeated in the clubs. Remember, we went we how many times dress exactly like that! And then the crow came out, and then guys showed up dressed exactly like the crow. But you know I'm not gonna go there, but it's just like that. Look scheduled for the 90 s. And and

(01:47:18):
yeah, I'll I'll just say something on what both of you guys mentioned first, the costumes. Which was that?

Some of the more elaborate customs, particularly at the end. Seen look like, and I'm pretty sure they were based on Klimt, Gustav Klimt paintings.
And then, as far as music goes.
You didn't do any music for the movie, but
a musician that I think we didn't mention at all is, Tom Waits, plays Renfield, who at the time when I saw this, I'm like, Oh, my God! Because we were into underground music like punk and stuff like that. And those are the only people who knew who Tom waits were back then, like, unless you watch the Jim Jarmos film, you didn't know him as an actor. And I think he deserves a little bit of shout out because he did. Renfield. But okay.

(01:48:08):
I think I think that pretty much wraps things up here. So I wanna say, if you like this, just let somebody else know about podcasts.
we are, if you want to talk to us or send us an email. It's Gca podcast that's letter G, letter C, number 8 podcast@gmail.com.
until next time. This is Eric.

This is Rosie. This is Johanna

signing off.

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Geek Channel 8 - Bram Stoker's Dracula part 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Geek Channel 8 - Bram Stoker's Dracula part 2