February 28, 2024 • 46 mins
We look at another Dracula film from 1979, this time a remake of Nosferatu, Werner Herzog's Nosferatu the Vampyre. And, as usual, we tell you what wine pairs best with it.
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(00:00):
Welcome back to Geek Channel eight.
I'm Eric.
I'm Rosie. And I'm Johanna.
This week, Nosferatu,
the vampire also known as Nosferatu.
Phantom der Nacht?
I think it's how you say it.
We pronounceeverything wrong on this show.
(00:21):
It's just what we do. this.
This week.
We will be murdering the German language.
And and at.
(00:46):
Midnight or sort of is it it'sI suppose people disappear
without a trace.
Last night,
after tiresome journey,I finally reached my destination, Castle.
Count Dracula.
(01:46):
The ship seems burdened with a curse.
Once Sailor learned to cook, disappearedwithout a trace.
(02:18):
Nosferatu, the vampire
coming from 20th Century Fox.
Nosferatu.
The Vampire.
(02:38):
A film unlike any Dracula film ever made.
Nosferatu.
The vampire.
(03:07):
I am working through BetterCall Saul My husband's a lawyer,
so even rewatching the episodesI've seen before, it was more fun
doing it with a lawyer in the roomSo having a great time if you haven't seen
Better Call Saul, whether you're a fanof Breaking Bad or not, I highly recommend
There's a podcastby a couple of comedians, Dave
Anthony and GarethReynolds called The Dollar,
(03:29):
which people should be pretty familiarwith.
If you're listeningthe comedy podcast at all, they've got
well over 500 episodes out,but I like a lot of podcasts.
I jump around a lot,so I haven't gotten too far in this.
I mean, in the first few dozen episodesand the episode I've been listening
to recently is their 25th episode,which is called
(03:51):
the Two Dogman, it's about Kit Burnsand Henry Byrne.
And basically one was an early animalrights activist
and the other wasan early dogfighter in New York.
But in particular it's mostly about rats.
Like they would put the dog in a pitto fight rats.
And I thought thatthat was highly appropriate
(04:14):
given that we're goingto be talking a lot about rats today.
I just finished that episode.
It is hilariousand horrible at the same time.
And the following episode
after that that I started just yesterday
and I'm not allthe way through, is called The Talk Board.
And the Talk board is about the 19th
(04:37):
century Spiritualism movement,that also is very appropriate
to what we're talking about today,which is Nosferatu from 1979.
This is there now Herzog's adaptation
or remake of the 1922 Murnau
(05:01):
Classic that we did last time.
So 1979, we've already done
the Hollywood version of Dracula from 1979
or one of the Hollywoodversions of Dracula from 1979.
And now we're looking at this
German film about Dracula from 1979.
(05:23):
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
79 was a very big year for Dracula.
What was 1979 like?
Razzie?
there was a lot that happened in 1879
there was a Three Mile Islandnuclear accident.
Pink Floyd released the Wall.
USSR invaded Afghanistan.
Margaret Thatcher was electedprime minister in the UK.
(05:46):
Sony released the Walkman.
The snowboard was inventedin the United States, lowered Mountbatten
and three others were assassinated.
In Northern Ireland.
63 Americans were taken hostagein the American Embassy in Tehran.
So the
UK public sector workers went on strike.
ESPN was launched the Soviet Union
(06:08):
and the United Statessigned the SALT to treaty
The Sahara Desertexperienced snow for 30 minutes.
Pope John Paul visits visitedthe first communist country.
He visited his native country of Poland.
The WHO concert at Riverfront Coliseum,
Cincinnati, Ohio 11 fans are killedand dozens are injured
(06:31):
at a concert they still talk about thatin the news here in Cincinnati today.
To this day, every yearon the anniversary, they bring it up.
It's it still has an impact on our town.
Here The world's firstanthrax epidemic began.
Epidemic began in pattern bird Russiafollowing a biological weapons
plant accident Okay, let'stalk about the production notes here.
(06:56):
first off, I'm just going to mentionthat I am a huge Werner Herzog fan
I celebrated my honeymoon at the at Film
Festival in 2022,
and he was therecelebrating his 80th birthday.
And I have a signed copy of the program
with Vernon's best wishes for my marriage,
which I can't tellif it's sarcastic or not, but both ways.
(07:21):
I love it. So I love it.
I just I just picture him afterwards,like I wish her
best luck on her marriage,
but we know it will not be so.
Yes, exactly.
So I don't I don't care whether Verathinks my marriage is doomed or not.
(07:43):
I enjoy having thisframed at home either way.
But aren't we all doomed?
Yes. I think we should maybedo this episode in a gardener accent.
This.
This would please me,so I better, of course, is
considered a legend right nowand, you know,
(08:03):
has a lot more resources as a filmmakerbecause he's been so successful.
But back in 1979, he was still this,you know, rough and tumble filmmaker
just getting by with a crew of 16 people,
for instance, for Nosferatuand a minimal budget.
So if you could just picturethat he considered Murnau's Nosferatu
(08:26):
to be perhaps the greatest piece of cinemato come out of all of Germany.
And he was very eagerto make an homage to that film, honor
it that way, and also to bring the storycloser to their present moment.
There are
some interesting behind the sceneslegends about this
(08:50):
film, as there are about all of Felder'smovies of this time.
the two piecesthat really jumped out at me
were the opening sequence for this film.
The credits are filmed overa montage of various skulls,
and I was definitely wondering,where is this?
How did he get how did he build that?
(09:12):
And these are mummiesof the Guanajuato Museum in Mexico.
See, we get to butcher morethan just German in this episode, but
those mummies are all victims of the 1833cholera epidemic.
So bringing the theme of the plague,
even from the beginning of this film,
(09:35):
he took the corpses out of the glass casesthat they were protected by
and sort of rearranged the bodiesin the order of youngest to oldest,
which I know you can just picture of.
So cringing right now.
That's so Werner Herzog.
It's like, let's just take these outand rearrange them.
Yeah. Yeah.
(09:57):
So bodies were
disrespected, Rats were also disrespectedin the making of this film,
disrespected, interred and murdered, Well,I heard that
Herzog said the rats were betterbehaved than Klaus Kinski.
Yeah, well, I mean, actually,
(10:18):
as far as Klaus Kinski is concerned,
he was much better behaved in this picturethan in any of the other Herzog films.
Like, you know, despite 4 hours of makeup,he cooperated most of the time.
But I'd say, like overall Kinskibehaving in Herzog's films.
Yeah, the Rats probably.
I'm also a huge Herzog fanand very fundamental
(10:40):
to my interest in film was seeing Aguirrethe Wrath of God,
in which Kinski goes full on crazyapparently on and off screen.
And as much as Kinskifeels like the same way
DeNiro is too Scorsese He,like, uses him all the time or now.
(11:01):
DICAPRIO Yeah, yeah.
Is still
perfect castinglike if you're going to find someone
at that time 1979
to replace Max Schreck,who himself was quite the oddball, be hard
to find somebody better than Kinskifor that, does behavioral biologists.
(11:22):
Martin Hart was hired by Herzogfor his expertise in lab rats.
And the rats used inthe film were laboratory rats,
but they were not treatedwith the same kindness and care.
I'm going to put that in quotesthat you see for laboratory rats,
a lot of them diedbeing imported from Hungary.
(11:43):
They started to each other on arrivalat the Netherlands.
Yeah.
And because they were lab rats, you know,they were all just like plain white rats.
And that wouldn't do for this film at all.
So Herzog insisted that baby died gray,and in order to do so, supposedly
they submerged the cages in boiling water,which killed another half of the rats.
(12:04):
And my God, they painted them gray,
which the rats proceeded to lick off.
so it was kind of a disaster.
And yeah, many rats were harmedin the making of this film.
But, you know, consideringthat crew members died in some of Herzog's
other films,this is a minor casualty in comparison.
(12:27):
So Herzog
considersKinski to be the definitive vampire
in a 2021 interview,he says that no one else has gotten close.
Although interestingly, in that interview,he also took some time
to talk about his affectionfor the Twilight series,
which he said, We have to take itseriously, that there are films out there
(12:48):
that know how to address a 14or 15 year old.
Right.
This this is a very special sortof approach, and I couldn't do it yet.
These filmscould I see that much of it is silly,
but at the same time,I respect these films. Okay.
This is coming from the man who saidI do not care for Stoker's novel,
I consider it mediocre literature,
(13:10):
you know, Yet the Twilight series.
Really?
Really. Verner Yeah, I know.
So on that subject.
Herzog said Stoker'snovel is a kind of compilation
of all the vampire storiesfloating around from the romantic times.
What is interesting is that it focusesso much on new technology.
For example, the use of telegrams in earlyrecording machines, etc.
(13:33):
like the changes societywas undergoing in the 19th century,
there may well be something similartaking place today.
As for some time, we have been livingin the digital age, so this was hard.
So talking about how this storyand how his film
continue to speak to some of the
perhaps less obvious terrorsthan the vampire in the film,
(13:54):
but the anxieties around technologythat were present in the novel
is something that continuesto be interesting to him
even today as he reflects on the film.
He also talks
in this interview about how he got around
some of the red tapetrying to get the film made.
He made this film back to backwith another film
(14:17):
called Woyzeck,which also starred Klaus Kinski.
I confess I have not seen this film,but Klaus Kinski basically
plays a a mad man of some kind, as always.
But I have to say that that has been on myto watch list forever.
Like I'm never going to be ableto see every film.
Herzog Herzog makes films fasterthan I can watch films, right?
(14:39):
But that one has been on my listfor a long time.
Well, it was interesting to hearthat the films were made back to back
with only five days in between,and they basically just like, let
it slide on the same permits and paperworkin the towns they were shooting in.
the forged paperwork. Yes.
So like apparently in Herzog'sfilm school, he is like,
(15:02):
I teach the important stuff on dayone, lock picking and forgery.
These are the two that every filmmakershould know.
Yeah.
On that subject, he talks about how he wasworking with the governments
and he said, I just tricked them.
They are natural enemies,bureaucracy and art.
You have to out trick them, outsmart them.
I would engage authoritieswith what they love most paper.
(15:26):
I would fill out pages with random figuresand they couldn't make sense of it,
but they were engaged.
Sometimes some of the things I didwith the necessary and natural amount
of criminal energy and make you feel likeI'm throwing the film.
He defended breaking into the town hall
and getting a copy of the necessary permitand then forging it.
(15:49):
He said,You have a natural right to make a film
that's not like that's his defense.
So it's like you can as long as you'renot hurting anyone, in Herzog's opinion,
you can break any laws you need to becauseit is your right to make that film.
Apparently so.
I don't know. It's hard to argue.
Herzog's films are pretty great.
(16:10):
I think he has the right to make me.
I wish I had known that when I startedmaking films, because it's true.
It's and I don't know anyonewho is an actual filmmaker,
a director who's directed a feature film,who has not had to skirt the law
in one way or another at some pointbecause everything is aligned against you.
Quick sidebar storywhere I was a production
(16:31):
manageron a production that was shooting in
All right, I'm going to call them out,Edgewood, Kentucky.
And we were shootingin the basement of this house.
We weren't disturbing anyone,but they found out
we were making a film and cops,it would come to the door and harass us.
The whole week longbecause we didn't have proper permits.
(16:53):
And so, of course, you couldn'tget a permit until like Monday.
And we were shooting on a weekendand then you couldn't get a permit
until thenthey had never been asked for a permit,
so it got kicked over to like the townhall in Covington on Tuesday.
Meanwhile, I'm just like,keep shooting, guys.
They can't shut us down.
Like, could you stop somebodyfrom making a painting?
(17:15):
And I guess it turned outthey wanted to collect payroll taxes
from us, and our budget was ridiculouslysmall anyway, so I'm like, Good luck.
I'm trying to find enough moneyto feed this crew, you know? So.
So, yeah, I think if there's one thingwe can learn from Herzog,
aside from the stuffthat's on screen, it's that
sometimes you got a break, a few eggs,make an omelet.
(17:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
And then sometimesyou also have to cooperate
and leave some of the eggs as they are.
For instance, the studio Fox thatwas going to distribute the film insisted
that he make an English language versionand a German language version.
And in order to accomplish this,
he filmed some of the scenes in Englishand some of them in German,
(17:58):
and then kind of dubbedand stitched them together.
But he considers, of course,
the German version to be definitive,which is a version I watched.
I'm curious to hear whether you didthe same and what you thought.
you went watch Which version?
The German version.
yeah, absolutely. Me too.
Rosie, did you watch the Germanor the English version?
(18:21):
I watched the English versionthat I found on YouTube.
supposedly in the UK.
This was released on a double billwith Ralph Box's Wizards.
No way.
That to me sounds like you're asking
for drug users to show up in your theaterbecause.
(18:43):
In 1979. Yes.
We once again, the plot is going to
not super closely,but it's going to follow Stoker's novel.
It's especially going to follow Murnau'sNosferatu.
So I'm not going to gointo a long breakdown of the plot.
We're just going to jump intotalking about it.
Some of the differences.
Jonathan works for Renfield in this one,so Renfield is real estate agent.
(19:07):
We've had something similarto that in other ones, including Murnau's
version,where Knock was the stand in for Renfield.
He's married to Lucy.
So remember when we were talkingabout Langella's Dracula?
We were talking about this too.
Was it the Langella, or was that the BBCone I'm trying to remember?
Or was it both?
Where he was with Lucy instead of Mina?
(19:29):
Yeah,I think it came up with both of them.
So in 1979, for some reason,all of the Dracula films, well,
the ones we've talked aboutso far have Jonathan with Lucy,
and in this case he's actuallymarried to Lucy and her sister is Mina.
So again, they're sisters,which we saw in the BBC, Count Dracula
(19:49):
from two years earlier.
I feel like all these moviesare borrowing from each other
because there's this new ideaof what Dracula is forming,
where it's like Lucy and Mina are sisters
and etc., etc..
I want to call attentionto the authentic gypsies.
(20:10):
They speak Romani.
And this there's, you know,Romani is a really it's a dying language.
there have been only about a dozen films
ever made in the Romani language.
And this one has just sceneswith the Gypsies
and there's no subtitles,There's no translation.
Herzog himselfdid not know what they were saying. So
(20:34):
but because, you know, for all you know,Probably were.
But do know that supposedly theythey had fleas
from their lifestyle and the other castingcrew would complain about it.
And Herzog said it was the something like
the justice of the flea hook.
Somehow the fleas were helpingto imbalance this class
(20:55):
difference or something.
it's not my favorite Herzog film.
I think it's also
very melodramatic in the speaking parts.
But you know,if I were to channel my teenage,
you know, when I thought I was so culturedand refined and into European film
as art, what that teenager would say to metoday is that Herzog's
(21:18):
films are they're like, they're poetry.
They're like filmed poetry.
They're not meant to be red,literally or viewed literally.
like the most Herzog ian scene in
this is when Harker'swalking through the mountains
on his way to the castle, you know,it looks like a Herzog film or the films
(21:42):
we will get later as documentarieswhere there's this rising music as night
falls over the mountainsand there's just these long takes,
these shots that justhe holds the shot for a long time
and you see the beautyand the poetry in nature that
someone like him has to show us is there.
(22:02):
He captures it so well.
Why can't you see in any of his other
films, like The Volcano oneor I forget some of the titles.
Yeah. I mean, I,
I found myselfthinking about Fitzcarraldo a lot.
Some of it is the nature imagery
and some of it was just the use of musicin the second half of the film.
Reminded me a lot of that.
(22:23):
in Grizzly Man,he talks about how Tim Treadwell, like,
leaves the camera onand like, accidentally captures
this wonderful scene of the windin the grass and all of that.
And it's amazing.
And he talks about how Timothy Treadwellwas actually horrible naturalist and bear
aficionado or whatever he was,but a really good filmmaker accidentally,
(22:45):
you know, and the gypsy scenes
also he lingers with longerthan we would normally have them.
But marginalized peoples is something
that comes up in Herzog'swork again and again.
And it's those kinds of scenesthat really make this Dracula for me.
Anyway.
(23:05):
We get to the castle and,
Dracula is so creepy and over-the-topthat I'm like,
Why would you spend even a single nightthere?
in the other Dracula's?
Harker is not crazy about,you'll have to spend a month
here, you know, not crazy about that idea,but he'll do it
like Dracula is a good hoston the first night and stuff like that.
But this one is just so creepy.
(23:26):
And it.
Yeah, And especially the first nightwhen he shows up in his bedroom, like,
why would you even try to staythe first night?
That's kind of where it getsinto this sort of over the top.
And it'll happen again with Lucy later on.
It's like,
this guy's totally creepy.
Why are you tolerating this? Right?
Like when he showed up to the castle,why didn't he just turn tail?
(23:47):
And at that point, the dude was blue.
Okay, how much more creepycan you get than some guy that is blue
with weird teethanswering the door like that?
No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even go in.
I wouldn't even go in.
First glimpse, I'd be like, Yeah,I'm out. I'm going to find a way home.
This is another one where the
bat flies from Transylvania to Bismarck
(24:12):
and back in one night,like the bat appears in Lucy's room.
And I'm like,So maybe that's not that far.
A flight for a bat, I don't know.
But at least it's closer than London or.
Whitby.But I was kind of like, here we go.
And by the way, another cute fruit bat.
a slightly larger group bat, though.
I mean, they're getting bigger.
(24:33):
Yeah, but they're so cute.
I'm like, Why would you?
Yeah, you guys, if you're making a vampirefilm, don't use cute bats.
Yeah,
speaking of bats, the flight of the bat
it's this bat on this blue background,which I swear we've seen.
It looks exactly like the footage
of the bat in Dracula with Langella.
(24:57):
in the opening titles.
And it also looks exactly like thatin the Count Dracula.
The British film, like, justthey amped up the color in those.
And so I looked it up and This is the onlystuff that Herzog's crew didn't shoot.
This is like stock footagethat came from a nature documentary.
(25:17):
So you hear it here first.
I couldn't find confirmation of this,but I am saying I think
all three of these filmsuse the same stock footage.
Okay.
Same bat.
Dracula never dies,
same time, same that channel.
(25:43):
having
just talked about the 1922version, the scene
where in that version Count, Orlok
insists on sucking the bloodfrom the cut on
In that film, Cutter's hand.
That that scene, the way this plays outwith him, you know, really not taking
(26:03):
no for an answer was yeah, legitimately
scary and uncomfortable
with with Dracula here
going after Harker
which you don't seein other versions of Dracula.
And I don't think it's true to the novel.
that Dracula is more like tryingto resist the temptation of the blood.
(26:27):
And this was really chilling. So
well done.
The ship,
when it pulls into fort,it's supposed to be Bismarck,
but it's actually think it'sin the Netherlands that they filmed this.
I don't know the actual city.
(26:47):
Anyway, Did you see the nameon the side of the ship?
No, I missed it. Well.
The contaminant CO2
and a and that contaminant.
Perfect gas almost. All right.
And on that note, I think it's time to.
Well, I would.
Say to ourselves with with some beverages.
I think. it is.
(27:09):
I never drink. Why
However,
this time we are going to drink wine.
All right.
as I said before,I know nothing about wine.
So part of the reason I'm doingthis is to learn a little bit about wine.
As mentioned before,
Germany isn't what you'd exactlycall a top ten wine country.
(27:31):
Nevertheless, yes,it does produce one variety of white wine.
Riesling, Yeah, it's my favorite.
It's the sweetest of the white lines.
It is sweet.
The people are seen frequentlyeating green grapes
and drinking white wine in this film.
So I'm going to assume it was recently.
I also didn't go period on thisbecause I hate to think of
(27:53):
white 1979 East German wine fromthis maas would taste like.
Yeah, like like bad grape juice.
Not like wine.
So in our settingthis Maas it's the northeast of Germany.
why Herzog had to film in the Netherlandsis because this was behind
the Iron Curtain.this was in East Germany.
And you know as a West German,he could not go there.
(28:15):
this Mars in the northeast of Germany,
but the region most known for producingis actually the complete opposite
end of the country in the southwest,
basically the high Rhine areaslike the Mosel Valley.
We know this from historical recordsthat's been produced there since at least
the early 15th century.
Riesling isn't even
(28:36):
one of the topten most consumed white wine varieties.
but among experts, it'sconsidered to be one of the big three,
along with Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc.
high sugar and high acid
concentration makes it suitable for cellaraging for decades,
possibly centuries,without a loss of quality.
(28:57):
as I mentioned when I talked about Tokaiin a previous episode,
The grapes infected with the noblerot fungus are particularly valued
for Rieslings because of notonly the flavor but extending the cellar.
Aging times.
I generally consider winetasting as bullshit.
Like that whole like small like,
(29:19):
it has hints of apricot, etc.
Like no, it tastes like wine.
But it should be notedthat some of these wines are said to have,
quote, striking Pétrole notes
and I'm quoting here from Wikipediathat is sometimes described
with comparisonsto kerosene, lubricants or rubber
(29:40):
translation.
It tastes like gasoline.
white swinging gasoline.
There's widespread debate among wineaficionados as to whether or not
this is a good thing, because, of course,there is debate about whether or not
beverage tasting like gasolineis a good thing among Somalis.
(30:00):
We just used to call that Boone's wine.
It tasted like gasoline.
man, that stuff gave me alcohol
poisoning back in the day. Wow.
I want to go into what exactlythese petrol notes are supposed to be.
Again, Drew this from Wikipedia.
The petrol note is consideredto be caused by the compound
(30:21):
116 tri methyl and one to die.
Hydro naphthalene, TDI,
and which during the aging processis created
from carotenoid precursorsby acid hydrolysis.
The initial concentration of precursorsin the wine determines
(30:41):
the wine's potential to developTTN and petrol notes over time
from what is known of the productionof carotenoids in grapes
factors that are likely to increase
the TTN potential are ripe grapes
that is low yield, late harvest,
high sun exposure, water stress,
(31:03):
which is most likely in regionswhich do not practice irrigation.
And there are primarily in certaindry vineyard sites in hot and dry years
and high acid content,which we've already said Riesling has.
These factors are usually considered tocontribute to high quality Riesling wines.
So the petrol note is more likelyto develop in top wines
(31:28):
than simpler wines.
Like high end wines.
Is that what they meanwhen they say top wines? Yeah.
And also in high yielding vineyards,especially those
from the new worldwhere irrigation is common.
So I can't remember what brand I had
when I was watching this movie,but it was probably U.S.
brand because I wasn't willingto spend a whole lot on Riesling,
which I'm not a wine guy.
(31:49):
So also toast and show me. Yeah,
it's produced in the
U.S., most notably in California,Michigan, New York and Ohio.
Riesling serving temperatureis best between 45 to 50 degrees
Fahrenheit,which is 7 to 9 degrees Celsius.
If you place it in the refrigerator,basically get down to 37 degrees.
(32:11):
So ideally, you're supposedto let it warm up a little bit.
I don't let it warm up a little bit.
I like it cold,but that's my own personal preference.
let it warm up to that temperature,but it tastes like wine to me.
I'm not a similarly.
Yeah, but I can tell you thatit was highly acidic
and very sweet to thingsthat like Riesling is supposed to be.
(32:35):
So my wine pairing recommendation
for the 1979 Nosferatu is
when I had a glass of Riesling,
which is what I believethey're probably drinking in this film.
If I had to guess.
Have you ever seen the movie Sideways?
(32:55):
I have. freaking love that movie.
And you having that that whole segmentjust made me think of that movie.
And to this day, I still. it.
I'm like, I'm not drinking.
Marlowe If anybody drinks Rouleau,I believe in.
See, the thing is.
This is I can't stand PaulGiamatti's character either because
not only is a wine snob,not a snobby is the other wine snobs,
(33:18):
but he doesn't like merlot, which is like
that's like my most favoritekind of wine is Merlot.
But anyway.
It was such
an ass in that movie,but it was a great film.
It was a great film.
It was a very good film.
I got to see that in the theater,at a little theater in Yellow Springs
ages ago, when I was on a weekend trip
(33:39):
away with my ex-husbandto celebrate our anniversary.
well, we can give a shout outto the little art theater.
It's known worldwide.
The little Park Theater in YellowSprings via.
This little theater.
actually very well known among cinephiles.
all right, back to this.
you know, I'm jumping ahead here,but Lucy basically tries to tell Van
(33:59):
Helsing about this.
And in this, VanHelsing is more like Doctor Seward.
He doesn't believe in vampires
things pretty much go off the railspretty fast
as thousands of rats take over the townand spread the plague.
I was never sure what Dracula's goal isby spreading the plague.
(34:21):
Unless it's to cover his tracks.
Like, they won't noticethat I'm feeding upon all these victims
because so many other people are dyingof the plague.
I don't know.
I don't think
this version of Dracula is the,
like,criminal mastermind and version of Dracula
that we get in other areaswhere he's, like,
(34:43):
figured out his whole plan of, like, I'mgoing to get an abbey in downtown London,
and then I'm going to make more vampiresand slowly infect and take over.
I get more the sense that the ratsare like an accident, like he's
like king of the rats.The rats are with him.
They spread disease.
And it's not part of a plan.
It's just like it happensbecause the rats, like,
are just part of his whole deal.
(35:05):
I don't know. I don't think so.
because at one pointRenfield asked him what you should do
and he sends Renfieldthe head to the next town, and he's like,
Take the rats with you.
You know, like the rats will follow.
The rats with you.
It seems like he has a plan.
He wants to move on to the next town,
and he's going to advanceRenfield ahead of him.
(35:26):
Can I just add an asideabout Renfield in this film?
The first time I saw him,
I did a double takebecause I thought it was Rowan Atkinson.
I like.
I knew intellectually it couldn't defend,but then all I had in my head was like,
All right, I'm going to recastlike a new version of Dracula
with Rowan Atkinson as Renfield,and it's going to be amazing.
(35:46):
my God. We should.
Yeah.
We'll talk comedic takes on Draculahere in the future.
We should definitely talk about that.
as chaos ensues,
which is, I'm sure the way that Herzogwould describe it,
people are seeing like dancingand celebrating and stuff like that.
And later in the in the story,they tell us like
some people have already been infected
(36:07):
with the plague and they, you know,may as well celebrate while we can,
you know,and they there's a big banquet with,
of course,white wine and grapes and stuff like that.
but before we even get to that,they're seeing playing horns and dancing
in the streetand stuff like that. And that reminded me
of paintings and
depictions not only of not only this,but of the saint.
(36:28):
Like the.
Plague.
The plague? Yeah, but not.
Not the bubonic plague.
Saint Vitus dance, which was a differentplague where people had, motor ticks.
It causeswhat's known as Saint Vitus Dance,
which was another medieval plague,but it was possibly infused with them.
And I even saw people doingring around the rosy and in this rich,
another classic plague thing to do.
(36:51):
Herzog's subtlety about the connectionbetween Dracula
and the plague is about as subtle
as Toto's, Godzilla and the bomb, like,it's not subtle at all.
It's like in your face,I just kept all the way to the end.
essentially a directremake of the 22 Nosferatu,
you know, Isabelle Adjani,who is almost preternaturally beautiful,
(37:15):
has to sacrifice herself to Draculato save everybody by keeping him
past dawn in what is definitelya creepy sexual situation.
All right.
I have to say, this film did that better.
I found the 22 version like a little vague
and unconvincing about, like,how how is this going to work?
(37:37):
Like it was 1922.
I know. And there are real some to.
We know that.
But I'm just talking about what they canand can't show, you know?
Okay.
Well, also that butwhat I liked about this version, what they
they repeated it enough times where youyou kind of understood what was going on
and then also the fact that Van Helsingis so totally useless in this movie
(38:00):
made it seem more like
in this version,I guess it's Lucy had a plan and like,
was, you know, figuring out like,no one is going to stop this except me.
I have to figure out the solution to this.
And I think in all of the other versions
of Dracula,where the main character at some point
(38:22):
is called on to stand up to Draculain order to bring about his end,
that it's
never quite as convincing as it is
in this version, which I really liked.
What I saw in this filmthat I haven't seen before
was when she took the crushedcommunion wafers and sprinkled them
(38:43):
around as a barrier,kind of like a salt barrier.
So protection barrier,except this time it was communion wafers.
And so he was just kind of likestuck in that chair and.
Yeah. Jonathan Stuck. Yeah, Yeah.
What's really weird about thatis that this is one of the lesser faithful
adaptations to Stoker's novel, butthat actually happens in Stoker's novel
(39:06):
except for with Minainstead of with Jonathan Van Helsing.
Does that at one point,both to keep her in
and to keep the bride's mouth out.
there are so many things that this filmI think does better than other versions.
And one of the main onesis the use of the reflection
(39:26):
it kind of builds you towards the moment
where you realize thatNosferatu doesn't cast a reflection.
There's a moment early in the filmwhere we see Lucy sleepwalking
and we see her reflected in the waterupside down
before realizingwe're seeing a reflection of her.
And then there's this beautiful sceneof the carriage traveling along the water
(39:48):
and the reflection of the carriageupside down and in the water there.
And then when we see Nosferatu
have this confrontationwith Lucy in her bedroom
and we see the shadowcreeping up behind her
and there's no reflection,but she can sense or see in some way
that he's coming for her,they build towards that moment in such,
(40:10):
such a beautiful wayand don't draw too much attention to it.
So I want to applaud Herzog's version for,
playing on thethe lack of a reflection for the vampire,
but not in a corny, stupid way,as some of the other films have done.
And that scene
where they're basically negotiatingNosferatu is saying like,
(40:33):
I will give your husband his mind backif you sleep with me.
And just like,that scene doesn't show up anywhere
in in the novelin any of the other adaptations.
But it made the stakes very, very clear.
And I like this interpretation of that,
that encounter between the two of them.
(40:56):
that carriage reflection in the water
is another example of what I think
is good at, which is not the actual actorsand the dramatic part.
I think Herzog's real strengthis these amazing images
it's no accident that he's become famousfor voiceover narration,
(41:17):
because he's got that great accentand voice voiceover narration
of scenes of,
remarkable power and beauty, that's reallywhere he's at his best, in my opinion.
The stuff with Dracula,like menacing people with long fingers
and like, posing and stalking themlike, and, then the sort of dialog
(41:37):
which is kind of weird, I'mguessing it was improved, I don't know,
that doesn't play to his strengths,Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, it's sort of an example of that.
This might be myfavorite version of the boat
and, and
it's adirect reference to the 1922 version.
But I like the way Herzog did it more.
(42:00):
We get a little bitmore of the boat on the water.
The whole sequence of the contamination,as you
said, coming into townis just gorgeously shot.
when you said the boat, I thought you weregoing to refer to the raft.
that also.
Yeah, the raft is great.
the gypsies taking the coffins down
the river on the raft,which happens in a bunch of these.
(42:22):
It happens in the novel anyway.
And it happened in the graphic novel,and it happens in some of the film
versions, but that is reminiscent of otherHerzog films like, Hearing?
Well, Aguirre Yeah, that one.
And Fitzcarraldo and. Fitzcarraldo.
That's what I was trying.
Yeah, Fitzcarraldo and Aguirre.
So, you know,I think you put humans in nature
(42:45):
And that's where Werner Herzogreally shines.
You put humans indoors on sets, talkingand that's not his strength,
in my opinion.
And this is coming from a big Herzogfan, still better than a ton
of other directors, final thoughtsit was beautifully shot.
I love the choice of actress for Lucy.
I thought she was absolutely beautiful.
(43:07):
she still is.
By the way, Isabelle Adjani,She's getting up there in years,
Yeah, she's been in the public eye
a lot recently due to legal troubles,but still stunningly beautiful.
Yeah.
I just pulled up the cast Of this film,
and it looks like they had a more modernversion.
Yeah, and it's still stunning,yeah, I feel like cast was well chosen.
(43:30):
It was beautifully filmed.
I'll even make a comment hereabout the makeup to the way
they didIsabelle's makeup for her character.
Gorgeous, gorgeous, perfect, smoky eye.
too beautiful.
Like, I mean, it works.
It kind of works,but she's supposed to be, like, super pure
(43:51):
and stuff like thatto a woman of pure blood or something.
I forget what it was, but,I don't know that I would have cast her,
but she is incredibly beautiful.
I don't think I tapped into the realm
of seeing Nosferatu as an erotic characterthe way
Johnny and humor look like.
(44:12):
And Herzog and Kinskiseemed to think this character could go.
I did not see that.
But I also saw how much influencethis film had on later
Dracula titlesand in the construction of shots
and the feelings
of longing for a life that is less lonely.
(44:33):
And I really like the use of the plaguein this taking
what's in the 22 versionand just taking it one step further.
yeah, it added to the terror for sure.
So as I'vesaid, it's not my favorite Herzog film,
but it's still well, we're seeingit is not my favorite Dracula.
(44:55):
It's not even my favorite.
I prefer Murnau's original,
but I think it is well worth seeing.
is an excellent choiceIf you're looking for a vampire film,
if you haven't seen it,you definitely should.
we have now watchedtwo Dracula is from 1979.
(45:15):
We've watched the Draculawith Frank Langella
and we have watchedthis version of Dracula with Klaus Kinski.
We have still not watched the highest
grossing Dracula adaptation from 1979.
So we will watch that next week.
If you want to tell usyour thoughts on this film,
(45:37):
just give us a email at eight podcast.
That's letter G, letterC, number eight podcast at gmail.com.
Check out our back episodes.
If you're just joining us, we've covered
a number of versions of Draculaalready with more to come.
Until next time, this is Eric.
This is Rosie.
(45:57):
This is Johanna signing off.
My relationship to Bram
Stoker has been very easy to decipher.
(46:18):
I don't like his bookit's very mediocre literature.
Welcome back to Geek Channel eight.
I'm Eric.
I'm Rosie. And I'm Johanna.
This week, Nosferatu,
the vampire also known as Nosferatu.
Phantom der Nacht?
I think it's how you say it.
We pronounceeverything wrong on this show.
(00:21):
It's just what we do. this.
This week.
We will be murdering the German language.
And and at.
(00:46):
Midnight or sort of is it it'sI suppose people disappear
without a trace.
Last night,
after tiresome journey,I finally reached my destination, Castle.
Count Dracula.
(01:46):
The ship seems burdened with a curse.
Once Sailor learned to cook, disappearedwithout a trace.
(02:18):
Nosferatu, the vampire
coming from 20th Century Fox.
Nosferatu.
The Vampire.
(02:38):
A film unlike any Dracula film ever made.
Nosferatu.
The vampire.
(03:07):
I am working through BetterCall Saul My husband's a lawyer,
so even rewatching the episodesI've seen before, it was more fun
doing it with a lawyer in the roomSo having a great time if you haven't seen
Better Call Saul, whether you're a fanof Breaking Bad or not, I highly recommend
There's a podcastby a couple of comedians, Dave
Anthony and GarethReynolds called The Dollar,
(03:29):
which people should be pretty familiarwith.
If you're listeningthe comedy podcast at all, they've got
well over 500 episodes out,but I like a lot of podcasts.
I jump around a lot,so I haven't gotten too far in this.
I mean, in the first few dozen episodesand the episode I've been listening
to recently is their 25th episode,which is called
(03:51):
the Two Dogman, it's about Kit Burnsand Henry Byrne.
And basically one was an early animalrights activist
and the other wasan early dogfighter in New York.
But in particular it's mostly about rats.
Like they would put the dog in a pitto fight rats.
And I thought thatthat was highly appropriate
(04:14):
given that we're goingto be talking a lot about rats today.
I just finished that episode.
It is hilariousand horrible at the same time.
And the following episode
after that that I started just yesterday
and I'm not allthe way through, is called The Talk Board.
And the Talk board is about the 19th
(04:37):
century Spiritualism movement,that also is very appropriate
to what we're talking about today,which is Nosferatu from 1979.
This is there now Herzog's adaptation
or remake of the 1922 Murnau
(05:01):
Classic that we did last time.
So 1979, we've already done
the Hollywood version of Dracula from 1979
or one of the Hollywoodversions of Dracula from 1979.
And now we're looking at this
German film about Dracula from 1979.
(05:23):
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
79 was a very big year for Dracula.
What was 1979 like?
Razzie?
there was a lot that happened in 1879
there was a Three Mile Islandnuclear accident.
Pink Floyd released the Wall.
USSR invaded Afghanistan.
Margaret Thatcher was electedprime minister in the UK.
(05:46):
Sony released the Walkman.
The snowboard was inventedin the United States, lowered Mountbatten
and three others were assassinated.
In Northern Ireland.
63 Americans were taken hostagein the American Embassy in Tehran.
So the
UK public sector workers went on strike.
ESPN was launched the Soviet Union
(06:08):
and the United Statessigned the SALT to treaty
The Sahara Desertexperienced snow for 30 minutes.
Pope John Paul visits visitedthe first communist country.
He visited his native country of Poland.
The WHO concert at Riverfront Coliseum,
Cincinnati, Ohio 11 fans are killedand dozens are injured
(06:31):
at a concert they still talk about thatin the news here in Cincinnati today.
To this day, every yearon the anniversary, they bring it up.
It's it still has an impact on our town.
Here The world's firstanthrax epidemic began.
Epidemic began in pattern bird Russiafollowing a biological weapons
plant accident Okay, let'stalk about the production notes here.
(06:56):
first off, I'm just going to mentionthat I am a huge Werner Herzog fan
I celebrated my honeymoon at the at Film
Festival in 2022,
and he was therecelebrating his 80th birthday.
And I have a signed copy of the program
with Vernon's best wishes for my marriage,
which I can't tellif it's sarcastic or not, but both ways.
(07:21):
I love it. So I love it.
I just I just picture him afterwards,like I wish her
best luck on her marriage,
but we know it will not be so.
Yes, exactly.
So I don't I don't care whether Verathinks my marriage is doomed or not.
(07:43):
I enjoy having thisframed at home either way.
But aren't we all doomed?
Yes. I think we should maybedo this episode in a gardener accent.
This.
This would please me,so I better, of course, is
considered a legend right nowand, you know,
(08:03):
has a lot more resources as a filmmakerbecause he's been so successful.
But back in 1979, he was still this,you know, rough and tumble filmmaker
just getting by with a crew of 16 people,
for instance, for Nosferatuand a minimal budget.
So if you could just picturethat he considered Murnau's Nosferatu
(08:26):
to be perhaps the greatest piece of cinemato come out of all of Germany.
And he was very eagerto make an homage to that film, honor
it that way, and also to bring the storycloser to their present moment.
There are
some interesting behind the sceneslegends about this
(08:50):
film, as there are about all of Felder'smovies of this time.
the two piecesthat really jumped out at me
were the opening sequence for this film.
The credits are filmed overa montage of various skulls,
and I was definitely wondering,where is this?
How did he get how did he build that?
(09:12):
And these are mummiesof the Guanajuato Museum in Mexico.
See, we get to butcher morethan just German in this episode, but
those mummies are all victims of the 1833cholera epidemic.
So bringing the theme of the plague,
even from the beginning of this film,
(09:35):
he took the corpses out of the glass casesthat they were protected by
and sort of rearranged the bodiesin the order of youngest to oldest,
which I know you can just picture of.
So cringing right now.
That's so Werner Herzog.
It's like, let's just take these outand rearrange them.
Yeah. Yeah.
(09:57):
So bodies were
disrespected, Rats were also disrespectedin the making of this film,
disrespected, interred and murdered, Well,I heard that
Herzog said the rats were betterbehaved than Klaus Kinski.
Yeah, well, I mean, actually,
(10:18):
as far as Klaus Kinski is concerned,
he was much better behaved in this picturethan in any of the other Herzog films.
Like, you know, despite 4 hours of makeup,he cooperated most of the time.
But I'd say, like overall Kinskibehaving in Herzog's films.
Yeah, the Rats probably.
I'm also a huge Herzog fanand very fundamental
(10:40):
to my interest in film was seeing Aguirrethe Wrath of God,
in which Kinski goes full on crazyapparently on and off screen.
And as much as Kinskifeels like the same way
DeNiro is too Scorsese He,like, uses him all the time or now.
(11:01):
DICAPRIO Yeah, yeah.
Is still
perfect castinglike if you're going to find someone
at that time 1979
to replace Max Schreck,who himself was quite the oddball, be hard
to find somebody better than Kinskifor that, does behavioral biologists.
(11:22):
Martin Hart was hired by Herzogfor his expertise in lab rats.
And the rats used inthe film were laboratory rats,
but they were not treatedwith the same kindness and care.
I'm going to put that in quotesthat you see for laboratory rats,
a lot of them diedbeing imported from Hungary.
(11:43):
They started to each other on arrivalat the Netherlands.
Yeah.
And because they were lab rats, you know,they were all just like plain white rats.
And that wouldn't do for this film at all.
So Herzog insisted that baby died gray,and in order to do so, supposedly
they submerged the cages in boiling water,which killed another half of the rats.
(12:04):
And my God, they painted them gray,
which the rats proceeded to lick off.
so it was kind of a disaster.
And yeah, many rats were harmedin the making of this film.
But, you know, consideringthat crew members died in some of Herzog's
other films,this is a minor casualty in comparison.
(12:27):
So Herzog
considersKinski to be the definitive vampire
in a 2021 interview,he says that no one else has gotten close.
Although interestingly, in that interview,he also took some time
to talk about his affectionfor the Twilight series,
which he said, We have to take itseriously, that there are films out there
(12:48):
that know how to address a 14or 15 year old.
Right.
This this is a very special sortof approach, and I couldn't do it yet.
These filmscould I see that much of it is silly,
but at the same time,I respect these films. Okay.
This is coming from the man who saidI do not care for Stoker's novel,
I consider it mediocre literature,
(13:10):
you know, Yet the Twilight series.
Really?
Really. Verner Yeah, I know.
So on that subject.
Herzog said Stoker'snovel is a kind of compilation
of all the vampire storiesfloating around from the romantic times.
What is interesting is that it focusesso much on new technology.
For example, the use of telegrams in earlyrecording machines, etc.
(13:33):
like the changes societywas undergoing in the 19th century,
there may well be something similartaking place today.
As for some time, we have been livingin the digital age, so this was hard.
So talking about how this storyand how his film
continue to speak to some of the
perhaps less obvious terrorsthan the vampire in the film,
(13:54):
but the anxieties around technologythat were present in the novel
is something that continuesto be interesting to him
even today as he reflects on the film.
He also talks
in this interview about how he got around
some of the red tapetrying to get the film made.
He made this film back to backwith another film
(14:17):
called Woyzeck,which also starred Klaus Kinski.
I confess I have not seen this film,but Klaus Kinski basically
plays a a mad man of some kind, as always.
But I have to say that that has been on myto watch list forever.
Like I'm never going to be ableto see every film.
Herzog Herzog makes films fasterthan I can watch films, right?
(14:39):
But that one has been on my listfor a long time.
Well, it was interesting to hearthat the films were made back to back
with only five days in between,and they basically just like, let
it slide on the same permits and paperworkin the towns they were shooting in.
the forged paperwork. Yes.
So like apparently in Herzog'sfilm school, he is like,
(15:02):
I teach the important stuff on dayone, lock picking and forgery.
These are the two that every filmmakershould know.
Yeah.
On that subject, he talks about how he wasworking with the governments
and he said, I just tricked them.
They are natural enemies,bureaucracy and art.
You have to out trick them, outsmart them.
I would engage authoritieswith what they love most paper.
(15:26):
I would fill out pages with random figuresand they couldn't make sense of it,
but they were engaged.
Sometimes some of the things I didwith the necessary and natural amount
of criminal energy and make you feel likeI'm throwing the film.
He defended breaking into the town hall
and getting a copy of the necessary permitand then forging it.
(15:49):
He said,You have a natural right to make a film
that's not like that's his defense.
So it's like you can as long as you'renot hurting anyone, in Herzog's opinion,
you can break any laws you need to becauseit is your right to make that film.
Apparently so.
I don't know. It's hard to argue.
Herzog's films are pretty great.
(16:10):
I think he has the right to make me.
I wish I had known that when I startedmaking films, because it's true.
It's and I don't know anyonewho is an actual filmmaker,
a director who's directed a feature film,who has not had to skirt the law
in one way or another at some pointbecause everything is aligned against you.
Quick sidebar storywhere I was a production
(16:31):
manageron a production that was shooting in
All right, I'm going to call them out,Edgewood, Kentucky.
And we were shootingin the basement of this house.
We weren't disturbing anyone,but they found out
we were making a film and cops,it would come to the door and harass us.
The whole week longbecause we didn't have proper permits.
(16:53):
And so, of course, you couldn'tget a permit until like Monday.
And we were shooting on a weekendand then you couldn't get a permit
until thenthey had never been asked for a permit,
so it got kicked over to like the townhall in Covington on Tuesday.
Meanwhile, I'm just like,keep shooting, guys.
They can't shut us down.
Like, could you stop somebodyfrom making a painting?
(17:15):
And I guess it turned outthey wanted to collect payroll taxes
from us, and our budget was ridiculouslysmall anyway, so I'm like, Good luck.
I'm trying to find enough moneyto feed this crew, you know? So.
So, yeah, I think if there's one thingwe can learn from Herzog,
aside from the stuffthat's on screen, it's that
sometimes you got a break, a few eggs,make an omelet.
(17:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
And then sometimesyou also have to cooperate
and leave some of the eggs as they are.
For instance, the studio Fox thatwas going to distribute the film insisted
that he make an English language versionand a German language version.
And in order to accomplish this,
he filmed some of the scenes in Englishand some of them in German,
(17:58):
and then kind of dubbedand stitched them together.
But he considers, of course,
the German version to be definitive,which is a version I watched.
I'm curious to hear whether you didthe same and what you thought.
you went watch Which version?
The German version.
yeah, absolutely. Me too.
Rosie, did you watch the Germanor the English version?
(18:21):
I watched the English versionthat I found on YouTube.
supposedly in the UK.
This was released on a double billwith Ralph Box's Wizards.
No way.
That to me sounds like you're asking
for drug users to show up in your theaterbecause.
(18:43):
In 1979. Yes.
We once again, the plot is going to
not super closely,but it's going to follow Stoker's novel.
It's especially going to follow Murnau'sNosferatu.
So I'm not going to gointo a long breakdown of the plot.
We're just going to jump intotalking about it.
Some of the differences.
Jonathan works for Renfield in this one,so Renfield is real estate agent.
(19:07):
We've had something similarto that in other ones, including Murnau's
version,where Knock was the stand in for Renfield.
He's married to Lucy.
So remember when we were talkingabout Langella's Dracula?
We were talking about this too.
Was it the Langella, or was that the BBCone I'm trying to remember?
Or was it both?
Where he was with Lucy instead of Mina?
(19:29):
Yeah,I think it came up with both of them.
So in 1979, for some reason,all of the Dracula films, well,
the ones we've talked aboutso far have Jonathan with Lucy,
and in this case he's actuallymarried to Lucy and her sister is Mina.
So again, they're sisters,which we saw in the BBC, Count Dracula
(19:49):
from two years earlier.
I feel like all these moviesare borrowing from each other
because there's this new ideaof what Dracula is forming,
where it's like Lucy and Mina are sisters
and etc., etc..
I want to call attentionto the authentic gypsies.
(20:10):
They speak Romani.
And this there's, you know,Romani is a really it's a dying language.
there have been only about a dozen films
ever made in the Romani language.
And this one has just sceneswith the Gypsies
and there's no subtitles,There's no translation.
Herzog himselfdid not know what they were saying. So
(20:34):
but because, you know, for all you know,Probably were.
But do know that supposedly theythey had fleas
from their lifestyle and the other castingcrew would complain about it.
And Herzog said it was the something like
the justice of the flea hook.
Somehow the fleas were helpingto imbalance this class
(20:55):
difference or something.
it's not my favorite Herzog film.
I think it's also
very melodramatic in the speaking parts.
But you know,if I were to channel my teenage,
you know, when I thought I was so culturedand refined and into European film
as art, what that teenager would say to metoday is that Herzog's
(21:18):
films are they're like, they're poetry.
They're like filmed poetry.
They're not meant to be red,literally or viewed literally.
like the most Herzog ian scene in
this is when Harker'swalking through the mountains
on his way to the castle, you know,it looks like a Herzog film or the films
(21:42):
we will get later as documentarieswhere there's this rising music as night
falls over the mountainsand there's just these long takes,
these shots that justhe holds the shot for a long time
and you see the beautyand the poetry in nature that
someone like him has to show us is there.
(22:02):
He captures it so well.
Why can't you see in any of his other
films, like The Volcano oneor I forget some of the titles.
Yeah. I mean, I,
I found myselfthinking about Fitzcarraldo a lot.
Some of it is the nature imagery
and some of it was just the use of musicin the second half of the film.
Reminded me a lot of that.
(22:23):
in Grizzly Man,he talks about how Tim Treadwell, like,
leaves the camera onand like, accidentally captures
this wonderful scene of the windin the grass and all of that.
And it's amazing.
And he talks about how Timothy Treadwellwas actually horrible naturalist and bear
aficionado or whatever he was,but a really good filmmaker accidentally,
(22:45):
you know, and the gypsy scenes
also he lingers with longerthan we would normally have them.
But marginalized peoples is something
that comes up in Herzog'swork again and again.
And it's those kinds of scenesthat really make this Dracula for me.
Anyway.
(23:05):
We get to the castle and,
Dracula is so creepy and over-the-topthat I'm like,
Why would you spend even a single nightthere?
in the other Dracula's?
Harker is not crazy about,you'll have to spend a month
here, you know, not crazy about that idea,but he'll do it
like Dracula is a good hoston the first night and stuff like that.
But this one is just so creepy.
(23:26):
And it.
Yeah, And especially the first nightwhen he shows up in his bedroom, like,
why would you even try to staythe first night?
That's kind of where it getsinto this sort of over the top.
And it'll happen again with Lucy later on.
It's like,
this guy's totally creepy.
Why are you tolerating this? Right?
Like when he showed up to the castle,why didn't he just turn tail?
(23:47):
And at that point, the dude was blue.
Okay, how much more creepycan you get than some guy that is blue
with weird teethanswering the door like that?
No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even go in.
I wouldn't even go in.
First glimpse, I'd be like, Yeah,I'm out. I'm going to find a way home.
This is another one where the
bat flies from Transylvania to Bismarck
(24:12):
and back in one night,like the bat appears in Lucy's room.
And I'm like,So maybe that's not that far.
A flight for a bat, I don't know.
But at least it's closer than London or.
Whitby.But I was kind of like, here we go.
And by the way, another cute fruit bat.
a slightly larger group bat, though.
I mean, they're getting bigger.
(24:33):
Yeah, but they're so cute.
I'm like, Why would you?
Yeah, you guys, if you're making a vampirefilm, don't use cute bats.
Yeah,
speaking of bats, the flight of the bat
it's this bat on this blue background,which I swear we've seen.
It looks exactly like the footage
of the bat in Dracula with Langella.
(24:57):
in the opening titles.
And it also looks exactly like thatin the Count Dracula.
The British film, like, justthey amped up the color in those.
And so I looked it up and This is the onlystuff that Herzog's crew didn't shoot.
This is like stock footagethat came from a nature documentary.
(25:17):
So you hear it here first.
I couldn't find confirmation of this,but I am saying I think
all three of these filmsuse the same stock footage.
Okay.
Same bat.
Dracula never dies,
same time, same that channel.
(25:43):
having
just talked about the 1922version, the scene
where in that version Count, Orlok
insists on sucking the bloodfrom the cut on
In that film, Cutter's hand.
That that scene, the way this plays outwith him, you know, really not taking
(26:03):
no for an answer was yeah, legitimately
scary and uncomfortable
with with Dracula here
going after Harker
which you don't seein other versions of Dracula.
And I don't think it's true to the novel.
that Dracula is more like tryingto resist the temptation of the blood.
(26:27):
And this was really chilling. So
well done.
The ship,
when it pulls into fort,it's supposed to be Bismarck,
but it's actually think it'sin the Netherlands that they filmed this.
I don't know the actual city.
(26:47):
Anyway, Did you see the nameon the side of the ship?
No, I missed it. Well.
The contaminant CO2
and a and that contaminant.
Perfect gas almost. All right.
And on that note, I think it's time to.
Well, I would.
Say to ourselves with with some beverages.
I think. it is.
(27:09):
I never drink. Why
However,
this time we are going to drink wine.
All right.
as I said before,I know nothing about wine.
So part of the reason I'm doingthis is to learn a little bit about wine.
As mentioned before,
Germany isn't what you'd exactlycall a top ten wine country.
(27:31):
Nevertheless, yes,it does produce one variety of white wine.
Riesling, Yeah, it's my favorite.
It's the sweetest of the white lines.
It is sweet.
The people are seen frequentlyeating green grapes
and drinking white wine in this film.
So I'm going to assume it was recently.
I also didn't go period on thisbecause I hate to think of
(27:53):
white 1979 East German wine fromthis maas would taste like.
Yeah, like like bad grape juice.
Not like wine.
So in our settingthis Maas it's the northeast of Germany.
why Herzog had to film in the Netherlandsis because this was behind
the Iron Curtain.this was in East Germany.
And you know as a West German,he could not go there.
(28:15):
this Mars in the northeast of Germany,
but the region most known for producingis actually the complete opposite
end of the country in the southwest,
basically the high Rhine areaslike the Mosel Valley.
We know this from historical recordsthat's been produced there since at least
the early 15th century.
Riesling isn't even
(28:36):
one of the topten most consumed white wine varieties.
but among experts, it'sconsidered to be one of the big three,
along with Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc.
high sugar and high acid
concentration makes it suitable for cellaraging for decades,
possibly centuries,without a loss of quality.
(28:57):
as I mentioned when I talked about Tokaiin a previous episode,
The grapes infected with the noblerot fungus are particularly valued
for Rieslings because of notonly the flavor but extending the cellar.
Aging times.
I generally consider winetasting as bullshit.
Like that whole like small like,
(29:19):
it has hints of apricot, etc.
Like no, it tastes like wine.
But it should be notedthat some of these wines are said to have,
quote, striking Pétrole notes
and I'm quoting here from Wikipediathat is sometimes described
with comparisonsto kerosene, lubricants or rubber
(29:40):
translation.
It tastes like gasoline.
white swinging gasoline.
There's widespread debate among wineaficionados as to whether or not
this is a good thing, because, of course,there is debate about whether or not
beverage tasting like gasolineis a good thing among Somalis.
(30:00):
We just used to call that Boone's wine.
It tasted like gasoline.
man, that stuff gave me alcohol
poisoning back in the day. Wow.
I want to go into what exactlythese petrol notes are supposed to be.
Again, Drew this from Wikipedia.
The petrol note is consideredto be caused by the compound
(30:21):
116 tri methyl and one to die.
Hydro naphthalene, TDI,
and which during the aging processis created
from carotenoid precursorsby acid hydrolysis.
The initial concentration of precursorsin the wine determines
(30:41):
the wine's potential to developTTN and petrol notes over time
from what is known of the productionof carotenoids in grapes
factors that are likely to increase
the TTN potential are ripe grapes
that is low yield, late harvest,
high sun exposure, water stress,
(31:03):
which is most likely in regionswhich do not practice irrigation.
And there are primarily in certaindry vineyard sites in hot and dry years
and high acid content,which we've already said Riesling has.
These factors are usually considered tocontribute to high quality Riesling wines.
So the petrol note is more likelyto develop in top wines
(31:28):
than simpler wines.
Like high end wines.
Is that what they meanwhen they say top wines? Yeah.
And also in high yielding vineyards,especially those
from the new worldwhere irrigation is common.
So I can't remember what brand I had
when I was watching this movie,but it was probably U.S.
brand because I wasn't willingto spend a whole lot on Riesling,
which I'm not a wine guy.
(31:49):
So also toast and show me. Yeah,
it's produced in the
U.S., most notably in California,Michigan, New York and Ohio.
Riesling serving temperatureis best between 45 to 50 degrees
Fahrenheit,which is 7 to 9 degrees Celsius.
If you place it in the refrigerator,basically get down to 37 degrees.
(32:11):
So ideally, you're supposedto let it warm up a little bit.
I don't let it warm up a little bit.
I like it cold,but that's my own personal preference.
let it warm up to that temperature,but it tastes like wine to me.
I'm not a similarly.
Yeah, but I can tell you thatit was highly acidic
and very sweet to thingsthat like Riesling is supposed to be.
(32:35):
So my wine pairing recommendation
for the 1979 Nosferatu is
when I had a glass of Riesling,
which is what I believethey're probably drinking in this film.
If I had to guess.
Have you ever seen the movie Sideways?
(32:55):
I have. freaking love that movie.
And you having that that whole segmentjust made me think of that movie.
And to this day, I still. it.
I'm like, I'm not drinking.
Marlowe If anybody drinks Rouleau,I believe in.
See, the thing is.
This is I can't stand PaulGiamatti's character either because
not only is a wine snob,not a snobby is the other wine snobs,
(33:18):
but he doesn't like merlot, which is like
that's like my most favoritekind of wine is Merlot.
But anyway.
It was such
an ass in that movie,but it was a great film.
It was a great film.
It was a very good film.
I got to see that in the theater,at a little theater in Yellow Springs
ages ago, when I was on a weekend trip
(33:39):
away with my ex-husbandto celebrate our anniversary.
well, we can give a shout outto the little art theater.
It's known worldwide.
The little Park Theater in YellowSprings via.
This little theater.
actually very well known among cinephiles.
all right, back to this.
you know, I'm jumping ahead here,but Lucy basically tries to tell Van
(33:59):
Helsing about this.
And in this, VanHelsing is more like Doctor Seward.
He doesn't believe in vampires
things pretty much go off the railspretty fast
as thousands of rats take over the townand spread the plague.
I was never sure what Dracula's goal isby spreading the plague.
(34:21):
Unless it's to cover his tracks.
Like, they won't noticethat I'm feeding upon all these victims
because so many other people are dyingof the plague.
I don't know.
I don't think
this version of Dracula is the,
like,criminal mastermind and version of Dracula
that we get in other areaswhere he's, like,
(34:43):
figured out his whole plan of, like, I'mgoing to get an abbey in downtown London,
and then I'm going to make more vampiresand slowly infect and take over.
I get more the sense that the ratsare like an accident, like he's
like king of the rats.The rats are with him.
They spread disease.
And it's not part of a plan.
It's just like it happensbecause the rats, like,
are just part of his whole deal.
(35:05):
I don't know. I don't think so.
because at one pointRenfield asked him what you should do
and he sends Renfieldthe head to the next town, and he's like,
Take the rats with you.
You know, like the rats will follow.
The rats with you.
It seems like he has a plan.
He wants to move on to the next town,
and he's going to advanceRenfield ahead of him.
(35:26):
Can I just add an asideabout Renfield in this film?
The first time I saw him,
I did a double takebecause I thought it was Rowan Atkinson.
I like.
I knew intellectually it couldn't defend,but then all I had in my head was like,
All right, I'm going to recastlike a new version of Dracula
with Rowan Atkinson as Renfield,and it's going to be amazing.
(35:46):
my God. We should.
Yeah.
We'll talk comedic takes on Draculahere in the future.
We should definitely talk about that.
as chaos ensues,
which is, I'm sure the way that Herzogwould describe it,
people are seeing like dancingand celebrating and stuff like that.
And later in the in the story,they tell us like
some people have already been infected
(36:07):
with the plague and they, you know,may as well celebrate while we can,
you know,and they there's a big banquet with,
of course,white wine and grapes and stuff like that.
but before we even get to that,they're seeing playing horns and dancing
in the streetand stuff like that. And that reminded me
of paintings and
depictions not only of not only this,but of the saint.
(36:28):
Like the.
Plague.
The plague? Yeah, but not.
Not the bubonic plague.
Saint Vitus dance, which was a differentplague where people had, motor ticks.
It causeswhat's known as Saint Vitus Dance,
which was another medieval plague,but it was possibly infused with them.
And I even saw people doingring around the rosy and in this rich,
another classic plague thing to do.
(36:51):
Herzog's subtlety about the connectionbetween Dracula
and the plague is about as subtle
as Toto's, Godzilla and the bomb, like,it's not subtle at all.
It's like in your face,I just kept all the way to the end.
essentially a directremake of the 22 Nosferatu,
you know, Isabelle Adjani,who is almost preternaturally beautiful,
(37:15):
has to sacrifice herself to Draculato save everybody by keeping him
past dawn in what is definitelya creepy sexual situation.
All right.
I have to say, this film did that better.
I found the 22 version like a little vague
and unconvincing about, like,how how is this going to work?
(37:37):
Like it was 1922.
I know. And there are real some to.
We know that.
But I'm just talking about what they canand can't show, you know?
Okay.
Well, also that butwhat I liked about this version, what they
they repeated it enough times where youyou kind of understood what was going on
and then also the fact that Van Helsingis so totally useless in this movie
(38:00):
made it seem more like
in this version,I guess it's Lucy had a plan and like,
was, you know, figuring out like,no one is going to stop this except me.
I have to figure out the solution to this.
And I think in all of the other versions
of Dracula,where the main character at some point
(38:22):
is called on to stand up to Draculain order to bring about his end,
that it's
never quite as convincing as it is
in this version, which I really liked.
What I saw in this filmthat I haven't seen before
was when she took the crushedcommunion wafers and sprinkled them
(38:43):
around as a barrier,kind of like a salt barrier.
So protection barrier,except this time it was communion wafers.
And so he was just kind of likestuck in that chair and.
Yeah. Jonathan Stuck. Yeah, Yeah.
What's really weird about thatis that this is one of the lesser faithful
adaptations to Stoker's novel, butthat actually happens in Stoker's novel
(39:06):
except for with Minainstead of with Jonathan Van Helsing.
Does that at one point,both to keep her in
and to keep the bride's mouth out.
there are so many things that this filmI think does better than other versions.
And one of the main onesis the use of the reflection
(39:26):
it kind of builds you towards the moment
where you realize thatNosferatu doesn't cast a reflection.
There's a moment early in the filmwhere we see Lucy sleepwalking
and we see her reflected in the waterupside down
before realizingwe're seeing a reflection of her.
And then there's this beautiful sceneof the carriage traveling along the water
(39:48):
and the reflection of the carriageupside down and in the water there.
And then when we see Nosferatu
have this confrontationwith Lucy in her bedroom
and we see the shadowcreeping up behind her
and there's no reflection,but she can sense or see in some way
that he's coming for her,they build towards that moment in such,
(40:10):
such a beautiful wayand don't draw too much attention to it.
So I want to applaud Herzog's version for,
playing on thethe lack of a reflection for the vampire,
but not in a corny, stupid way,as some of the other films have done.
And that scene
where they're basically negotiatingNosferatu is saying like,
(40:33):
I will give your husband his mind backif you sleep with me.
And just like,that scene doesn't show up anywhere
in in the novelin any of the other adaptations.
But it made the stakes very, very clear.
And I like this interpretation of that,
that encounter between the two of them.
(40:56):
that carriage reflection in the water
is another example of what I think
is good at, which is not the actual actorsand the dramatic part.
I think Herzog's real strengthis these amazing images
it's no accident that he's become famousfor voiceover narration,
(41:17):
because he's got that great accentand voice voiceover narration
of scenes of,
remarkable power and beauty, that's reallywhere he's at his best, in my opinion.
The stuff with Dracula,like menacing people with long fingers
and like, posing and stalking themlike, and, then the sort of dialog
(41:37):
which is kind of weird, I'mguessing it was improved, I don't know,
that doesn't play to his strengths,Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, it's sort of an example of that.
This might be myfavorite version of the boat
and, and
it's adirect reference to the 1922 version.
But I like the way Herzog did it more.
(42:00):
We get a little bitmore of the boat on the water.
The whole sequence of the contamination,as you
said, coming into townis just gorgeously shot.
when you said the boat, I thought you weregoing to refer to the raft.
that also.
Yeah, the raft is great.
the gypsies taking the coffins down
the river on the raft,which happens in a bunch of these.
(42:22):
It happens in the novel anyway.
And it happened in the graphic novel,and it happens in some of the film
versions, but that is reminiscent of otherHerzog films like, Hearing?
Well, Aguirre Yeah, that one.
And Fitzcarraldo and. Fitzcarraldo.
That's what I was trying.
Yeah, Fitzcarraldo and Aguirre.
So, you know,I think you put humans in nature
(42:45):
And that's where Werner Herzogreally shines.
You put humans indoors on sets, talkingand that's not his strength,
in my opinion.
And this is coming from a big Herzogfan, still better than a ton
of other directors, final thoughtsit was beautifully shot.
I love the choice of actress for Lucy.
I thought she was absolutely beautiful.
(43:07):
she still is.
By the way, Isabelle Adjani,She's getting up there in years,
Yeah, she's been in the public eye
a lot recently due to legal troubles,but still stunningly beautiful.
Yeah.
I just pulled up the cast Of this film,
and it looks like they had a more modernversion.
Yeah, and it's still stunning,yeah, I feel like cast was well chosen.
(43:30):
It was beautifully filmed.
I'll even make a comment hereabout the makeup to the way
they didIsabelle's makeup for her character.
Gorgeous, gorgeous, perfect, smoky eye.
too beautiful.
Like, I mean, it works.
It kind of works,but she's supposed to be, like, super pure
(43:51):
and stuff like thatto a woman of pure blood or something.
I forget what it was, but,I don't know that I would have cast her,
but she is incredibly beautiful.
I don't think I tapped into the realm
of seeing Nosferatu as an erotic characterthe way
Johnny and humor look like.
(44:12):
And Herzog and Kinskiseemed to think this character could go.
I did not see that.
But I also saw how much influencethis film had on later
Dracula titlesand in the construction of shots
and the feelings
of longing for a life that is less lonely.
(44:33):
And I really like the use of the plaguein this taking
what's in the 22 versionand just taking it one step further.
yeah, it added to the terror for sure.
So as I'vesaid, it's not my favorite Herzog film,
but it's still well, we're seeingit is not my favorite Dracula.
(44:55):
It's not even my favorite.
I prefer Murnau's original,
but I think it is well worth seeing.
is an excellent choiceIf you're looking for a vampire film,
if you haven't seen it,you definitely should.
we have now watchedtwo Dracula is from 1979.
(45:15):
We've watched the Draculawith Frank Langella
and we have watchedthis version of Dracula with Klaus Kinski.
We have still not watched the highest
grossing Dracula adaptation from 1979.
So we will watch that next week.
If you want to tell usyour thoughts on this film,
(45:37):
just give us a email at eight podcast.
That's letter G, letterC, number eight podcast at gmail.com.
Check out our back episodes.
If you're just joining us, we've covered
a number of versions of Draculaalready with more to come.
Until next time, this is Eric.
This is Rosie.
(45:57):
This is Johanna signing off.
My relationship to Bram
Stoker has been very easy to decipher.
(46:18):
I don't like his bookit's very mediocre literature.
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