Championing Change: Reflections on 3 Seasons of Genesis The Podcast

In this final episode of season 3, Maria MacMullin and Genesis CEO Jan Langbein take you on a reflective journey through the most impactful moments from the past three seasons of Genesis the Podcast. Special highlights include transformative insights from renowned expert Lundy Bancroft, whose work has been pivotal in reshaping how we view abuser accountability and support for survivors.

This episode doesn't shy away from the tough issues. We explore the devastating impact of non-physical forms of abuse and the lethal risks posed by firearms in abusive relationships. Hear compelling stories from survivors like Stephanie Bond, who bravely shares her struggles and triumphs in seeking legal protection. Learn why recent Supreme Court decisions offer hope but also underscore the ongoing need for vigilant advocacy and legal reforms. We also delve deeper into the psychological barriers victims face and why love and abuse can tragically coexist, drawing on Rachel Louise Snyder’s thoughtful perspectives.

Finally, we celebrate the milestones and memorable guests that have shaped our journey since launching the podcast in September 2021. Reflect on the wisdom of advocates like Leslie Morgan Steiner who remind us that survivors are their own best experts. With a look towards the future, we discuss the importance of continued education, community support, and effective safety planning. This episode is a powerful call to action, urging all of us to support and stand with survivors in the fight against domestic violence. Don't miss this poignant and empowering conversation as we wrap up season three and lay the groundwork for what's to come.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me today is Genesis CEO, jan Langbein, as we
wrap up season three of Genesisthe podcast and take a sneak
peek at what's coming this fall.
I'm Maria McMullin and this isGenesis, the podcast launched in

(00:37):
2021.
And since that time, we've hadnearly 100 conversations about
domestic violence with expertsfrom around the world.
Over the course of three years,we have discussed at least 10
books on the subject of domesticviolence, including the Body
Keeps the Score by Dr Bessel vander Kolk.
Crazy Love by Leslie MorganSteiner.

(00:59):
Think Like a Feminist by DrCarol Hay.
It's Grief by ED Nathan whydoes he Do that?
And when Dad Hurts Mom, both byLundy Bancroft Leaving by
Conchan Basker.
Children of Coercive Control byDr Evan Stark.
Women we Buried, women weBurned, by Rachel Louise Snyder.
Truth and Repair by Dr JudithHerman.

(01:22):
We've discussed films like theBarbie movie and the documentary
this Is when I Learned Not toSleep the story of Mark Wynn.
We've talked to numerousexperts in fields of clinical
counseling, the legal system,law enforcement and more, and to
academics who bring newresearch and data to the
conversation, revealing patternsof abusive behaviors and

(01:42):
statistical revelations aboutfemicide.
We've learned so much fromengaging with these
professionals and survivors andhopefully you have as well, and
we're not stopping there.
So, together with Jan Langbein,today, we take a look back at
the highlights of the past threeseasons and a look ahead at the
fall lineup for Genesis thepodcast.
Hey Jan, welcome to the show.

(02:03):
Thank you, I'm glad to be back,and here we are, the last
episode of season three, andwe're going to do some recap and
as well as some looking ahead.
But first I want to ask you aquestion, want to take a guess
at the most downloaded episodesof Genesis the Podcast.
Which episodes do you thinkmore people have listened to
than others?

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I have to tell you I don't know whether it's just me,
or I'm pretty sure I know thereal answer to this, and that's
when you spoke with LundyBancroft.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
That's absolutely right.
Lundy was on the show twiceover the past few years and
those conversations are, in fact, our most listened to episodes
and they are still available inthe library, so anybody
listening today who hasn't heardthem can go back and go back to

(02:52):
2023.
And then earlier this year tohear what we talked with Lundy
about in his episodes.
We did talk all about how abuseimpacts both mothers and their
children, as well as many myths,misconceptions and outright
lies that abusive men believeand try to convince others to
believe.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Both episodes can be found in our library on your
favorite streaming platform, buthere's a clip from our most
recent conversation Lies AbusiveMen Tell Me and Themselves,
with a message directly to womenfrom Lundy himself the message
I really want to get to women isyou will not be able to heal to
change his view of women bybeing good to him, and it

(03:27):
doesn't have anything to do withhow women have treated him and
it's going to as you're saying.
It's just going to suck youinto getting manipulated and
controlled by him.
If he's got an issue with women, stay away from him, don't try
to fix it.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Lundy's work is timeless, really, and he has
extensive experience with familycourts.
He has also presented at theConference on Crimes Against
Women several times, and you'veworked with Lundy for years, jan
right.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yes, no, I agree with you.
I think his work is timelessand he has written so many books
.
I think I can say withouthesitation in my three decades
at Genesis, the one questionthat I hear the most, the
biggest conundrum, the biggestenigma, the mystery that
confuses survivors, is the titleof his book.

(04:14):
Why Does he Do that?
Why does he do that?
Clients come in and usuallyfollow that question with well,
what did I do wrong?
What's wrong with me?
Maybe if I tried harder or Icried less that I could make
this better.
And so this book, why Does heDo that?
Is really a standard read forall our staff and most all of

(04:35):
our clients as well.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, so our clinical team for sure it's part of the
Bible series, right that?

Speaker 4 (04:42):
our clinical team uses even our residential team.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Why does he do that when dad hurts mom?
Right, books like the BodyKeeps the Score, which is
another book that we've talkedabout on this show, and, yeah,
so when you and I were talkingabout Lundy's work the other day
, we believe that he asks theright question, absolutely.
Why does he do that, as opposedto some of the other questions
we get?
You know the one that drives mecrazy for it.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think this book particularly why does he do that
?
I keep going back to that ithelps give the understanding
that the responsibility of abuseis on the abuser.
It's not about that dinner waslate or the house was dirty or
you were looking at other men.
His work really shows thatabuse will not stop and still
abuse or stop abusing.
So that particular book, alongwith a lot of his work, really

(05:32):
helps survivors and cliniciansand people in this work.
Look at it from another view.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Another view, yeah like, and the view that we are
typically hearing about is well,why doesn't she just?
Why didn't she just get out?
Why doesn't she just leave?
Why doesn't?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
she just get out, why doesn't she just leave?
And of course I could sit herefor the next hour and give you a
really long list of why shedoesn't leave and so, but that's
not the question that we shouldbe asking.
We should be asking why does hedo that?
And then I follow with thequestions like what kind of
coward beats his wife and whatkind of coward beats his wife

(06:09):
and what kind of monster beatsthe mother of his children, and
what's wrong with people and whodoes he think he is?
Those are great titles forbooks.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
I'm going to write it as soon as I get a minute or
two extra.
So speaking of books, did youknow that Lundy is also a
novelist?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I didn't know that until I was prepping, and thank
you for all your prep work.
I didn't know until I wasprepping for this podcast, but I
have to tell you.
I immediately went on to Amazon.
The book that's called, that'sentitled in custody, and it has
like a subtitle, a Cary Greenmystery right, which I hope
there are a lot more of them.
But I immediately went onAmazon and ordered in custody

(06:41):
and plan to be binge readingthis weekend.
And the way he's written allhis other books this one is
planned to be binge reading thisweekend.
And the way he's written allhis other books this one has got
to be a winner as well.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
So it's a good book.
You've read it.
I did read it, and it's afictional work that explores the
corruption in the family courtsystem.
It was released in 2023.
And he even read an excerptfrom that book on the show in
his January 2023 episode.
So if you want to hear thatfrom the author himself, just go
back to his episode.
No More Excuses.
I believe it's called in theJanuary 2023 portion of our

(07:14):
library.
We've covered a lot of othertopics.
Lundy, if you're listening,you're probably happy.
We're going to stop gushing onyou right this minute, because
the other topics that we havecovered extensively on the show
are gaslighting and coercivecontrol.
So in a way, these two topicsare part of every conversation
we have on this show.
But there are some very focusedconversations about gaslighting

(07:36):
and coercive control withexperts, including the late Dr
Evan Stark and Dr ChristineKociola.
So, side note, dr Kociola iscoming back to the show in the
fall.
She has co-authored a new bookand she and her co-author, amy
Palacca, will be here on thepodcast in just a few weeks.
But on this topic, dr Evan Starkleft us a legacy that demands

(07:59):
we take up the charge aboutcoercive control and domestic
violence and keep moving forward.
The charge about coercivecontrol and domestic violence
and keep moving forward.
When he released what would behis final book in 2023, I had
the honor to talk with him abouthis work.
Here is a clip from thatconversation where Dr Stark
gives a very poignant example ofcoercive control and how
domestic abuse is tangential tochild abuse.

(08:20):
And, just a heads up, this clipdoes discuss physical violence.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
I had one case in New York where the mother was a
prominent Wall Street broker andthe father didn't want to leave
any bruises so he would justbeat the child.
He would beat the son, theteenage son, when he wanted to
get the wife to hold.
The son was seeing apsychiatrist.
The psychiatrist thought theboy had some kind of delusion.
The husband was also seeing apsychiatrist because he didn't
get along with his son and hewas being medicated for manic

(08:53):
depressive disorder.
But the husband didn't lay ahand on the wife until she filed
for a divorce and she hadenough money to leave the thing
and he tried to kill her with abarbell.
Up to that point the son was aproxy.
You see what I mean had enoughmoney to leave the thing.
Then he got a killer with abarbell.
Up to that point, the son was aproxy.
He lived.
You see what I mean.
Again, I know these arehorrible stories, but this is

(09:14):
what coercive control is.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
These are topics we cannot talk about enough and, at
a minimum, coercive control isfinally getting some momentum
and being included in somelegislation in a few states as a
form of domestic violence, andthis is something, jan, you know
quite a bit about.
This topic of coercive controland the legislation Right, right
, right.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well, so Maria, you know the control is at the very
center of abuse.
Coercive control creates fearand bruises that the rest of us
cannot see.
It is isolation, it is damagingproperty, it's degradation,
it's threats to harm or kill theindividual or their friends or
their families or relatives.
It's compensatory control.
It's monitoring and restrictingthe victim's movements and

(09:55):
communication.
And we have had discussionsabout can we codify that?
Can we make that against thelaw?
And I know New Jersey hasstepped up and basically has now
recognized coercive control asa form of domestic violence.
The governor there, governorMurphy, signed into law that
would require courts to considera pattern of coercive control

(10:18):
when deciding whether or not toissue a restraining order.
This is pretty amazing to issuea restraining order.
This is pretty amazing becauseas people are getting
restraining orders or protectiveorders, they were just looking
at the incident that had justhappened or a history of the
physical violence.
Now they're saying we can getinto this court record, when

(10:40):
trying to get a protective order, incidents of coercive control
or the stalking, the fear, theother things that are a pattern
of behavior that go along withthe physical.
We have talked about that inAustin.
We have had discussionsregarding similar legislation
for here in Texas, it was notpicked up this session's agenda

(11:02):
this one coming up or lastsession's agenda.
Not picked up this session'sagenda, this one coming up, or
last session's agenda because itreally we looked at it through
the lens of the fact that itputs the responsibility for the
victims to prove somethingthat's extremely hard to prove.
How do I prove that he isolatedme?
Well, you're a stay-at-home mom.
Well, that is counterintuitiveto what I would think is

(11:22):
coercive control.
You get to stay home and youhave coffee with your friends
and you play pickleball and reada book or whatever.
How do you prove that hedegrades you or that he
threatens you?
Usually it's behind closeddoors, anyway.
So, having to put one morething on the victim to prove
something that's, as I said,extremely hard to prove, we took

(11:44):
that into consideration.
Many of these types of actionsand behaviors are easily
misconstrued.
He must really love her, hewants to be with her every
minute of the day.
Well, how that sounds to me isone thing, but how it sounds to
a survivor of domestic violenceis completely, completely
different.
And the bottom line we canhardly get our cases to court

(12:07):
for the physical abuse whenthere is physical evidence and
police reports and the brillianttestimony from the local CEO of
your domestic violence agency.
So we can hardly get that inthere, much less the coercive
control.
Would it be a bonus?
Absolutely, I think that themore we can recognize that

(12:27):
coercive control is part of apattern of behavior, of domestic
violence, gender-based violence, the better.
But I know that here in Texaswe've sort of stepped over that
to see how it's working in otherstates and how they're going to
prove it and how many peoplethat will impact.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, it's definitely something to watch and see how
it unfolds there in New Jerseyand in other places.
One of our recent guests onGenesis the Podcast was
instrumental in bringing thisparticular piece of legislation
in New Jersey to fruition.
Courtney Gilmartin was on theshow this spring to talk about
both her personal experiencewith DV and her work to reform

(13:05):
the understanding of domesticviolence.
She was quoted in an article byBrianna Kudisch for
NewJerseycom as saying for manyvictims, coercive control can be
defined as the torment thathappens in between reportable
events, whether that's violenceor something else.
You can find that article onNJcom.

(13:26):
You know, maria.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
I really agree with that.
I remember a woman that was inthe shelter and she was talking
to a reporter there.
They had asked her permissionand she was willing to talk
about it.
She had a really, really badlybruised eye.
He had punched her in the faceand she said that this is the
first time it's ever happened.
And the truth of the matter isI didn't say anything then, but

(13:51):
I knew her history and this guywas incredibly controlling,
incredibly abusive emotionally,and for her, though, it was the
first time he ever did it.
She could point to somethingand say look what he does to me,
but he would stand on her toes,get up near her and stand on
her toes and scream in her facefor hours, and that was the

(14:14):
first time she recognized thatit was abusive is when he
finally had punched her in theface.
So I believe that people don'tand sometimes even the victims
don't recognize the control thatgoes on in between the episodes
of physical abuse, as you justmentioned.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, and that brings me back to the points you were
making about getting protectiveorders and recognizing patterns
of abuse.
Can you get a protective orderif there has not been physical
violence but there has been apattern of abuse?
Let's say it's like stalking orsomething else?

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right.
Well, to prove, stalking thatis a pattern of abuse that is
intended to cause fear.
So, yes, you can do that forstalking.
But as far as domestic violence, a protective order is that
there has been a history ofabuse, physical abuse, and there
is potential of more.
So to my knowledge, it would bevery difficult without the

(15:14):
stalking piece, which is writtenin differently in the code, to
get a protective order withregards to and when I say merely
coercive control, I don't meanthat the way that sounds Right
If there hasn't been physicalabuse Without the physical abuse
Right In the state of Texas, itwould be difficult to get the
protective order.
That's my understanding.
That's my understanding, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
That's so interesting and we have so many survivors
here on the podcast.
You just mentioned a survivorthat was actually one of our
survivors from the shelter atGenesis, but here on the show we
highlight survivor stories veryregularly.
Over the years we've heard fromsurvivors in their own voices

(15:55):
and in their own words whathappened to them and the impact
that domestic violence has hadon their lives and the lives of
their children.
One of those stories includedin Genesis the podcast was
survivor Stephanie Bond and likea lot of these cases, her story
has many layers, because therewas not only the domestic
violence involved, but alsomental illness, financial abuse

(16:18):
and firearms.
I want you to take a listen toStephanie in her own words about
just one of the many wayspeople responded to the violence
that she experienced.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
People would say to me well, he didn't mean to kill
you and you know if he would, ifhe, or else he was a really bad
aim, because if he meant tokill you, he would have shot you
or killed you.
And I take issue with commentslike that because, again, a .45
caliber bullet, you cannot aimthat at such close proximity and

(16:51):
I think he had every intentionof killing me.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Stephanie's story also reminds us of another
recurring topic on this show theimpact that firearms can have
within abusive relationships.
Jan, you and I both knowStephanie well and we also
understand the dangers offirearms when abuse is present,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
You know, as extreme as Stephanie's story is, it's
not unusual.
We talked a minute ago aboutthe entire foundation of an
abuser's.
Abuse is power and control andthe victim is in the most danger
when the perpetrator feels outof control.
But a perpetrator can also feelhis life is out of control with

(17:48):
a loss of job, financial issues, bankruptcy, shame over
something else.
The fact that Stephanie'shusband had so many firearms
huge red flag.
We know that in domesticviolence relationships where
there are firearms, victims arein 500 times more danger of
dying.
We have been working very hardhere in Texas to increase
awareness surrounding thisdanger.
But I got to tell you, maria,it's an uphill battle.
For many years it was illegal,both the state and federal level
, for someone who has beenconvicted of domestic violence

(18:08):
or subject to a protective orderto possess firearms.
However, it is almost, if notcompletely, impossible to get
judges to order perpetrators torelinquish those firearms.
This actually took a terribleturn when the Fifth Circuit
Court of Appeals, which is thecourt over Texas, louisiana and
Mississippi the Fifth CircuitCourt reversed a ruling and

(18:32):
declared that perpetrators couldkeep their firearms.
Now let's think about that.
You want to give a dangerouscriminal we already know he's a
dangerous criminal.
Because he's been convicted,you want to give him a firearm,
and the case was actuallyreviewed.
It was a case out of TarrantCounty.
A man named Rahimi was orderedas he should have been in
Tarrant County to relinquish hisfirearms, but the Fifth Circuit

(18:53):
said he didn't have to.
So for over two years we sataround writing amicus briefs and
held our breath as the SupremeCourt reviewed the case and just
this last June, june 21st, theSupreme Court issued the
life-saving decision to reversethe Fifth Circuit's ruling the
most dangerous ruling to allowdomestic violence abusers to be

(19:17):
armed, stating that abusers donot have the constitutional
right.
Convicted abusers do not have aconstitutional right to own
guns.
Now, while we celebrated that,unfortunately that just got us
back to ground zero.
I mean we're still strugglingwith judges on how to order
perpetrators to relinquish theirfirearms or destroy those

(19:38):
firearms or collect them, oreven to get them to admit that
they have firearms even to getthem to admit that they have
firearms.
And when we go to differentelected representatives around
the state, I get many doors justshut in my face.
We're not going to talk aboutthat.
The good voters of my countydon't want me talking about guns
, bottom line.
When somebody says what do yousay about trying to take

(20:00):
people's guns away?
And I basically say I'm nottrying to take them away.
They have a right to a firearm.
Just don't beat your wife.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
It's as simple as that.
Don't be an abuser Right,because I mean, basically,
you've surrendered your right toa lot of things, including
owning firearms when you areinvolved in a domestic violence
situation.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Well, that was right, except for Texas, mississippi
and Louisiana during that period.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
We're back to ground zero as far as I'm concerned and
to your point, this is exactlywhat happened in Stephanie
Bond's case as well is that thejudge did say those firearms
need to be removed and she couldnot find anyone to help her get
them removed.
To remove them, yes.
And then, on top of all that,her husband's name was on the I

(20:46):
guess the deed to the house orthe mortgage, and therefore,
because he was still technicallyon that document and living
technically in that house, theguns could only be removed if he
said so and he wasincapacitated in a mental health
hospital at the time.
It was very, very complexsituation, but it had all of

(21:10):
these issues tied into one andit could have cost her her life.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Well, almost did, and I really encourage your
listeners to go back and listento that episode, because this
woman almost died.
It was just by the grace of Godthat she didn't the grace of
God and the child that broughther a cell phone in the floor of
that closet.
It took her years to learn, towalk again, to heal and become

(21:37):
what she is today, which is atremendous advocate fighting the
fight against domestic violence.
So I'm so proud of Stephanie.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
I am too.
She's really done so much forother survivors and for her
children and her family,bringing everyone together.
It's a remarkable story and Ihope that you will all go back
and listen to it.
There are so many conversationson this podcast that I
absolutely walk away from justfeeling like I learned so much.

(22:06):
And every time I do, you knowit comes back and it comes back
in our work and moving forwardwith the work we do at Genesis.
One of my absolute favoriteconversations on the show was
with Dr Judith Herman.
Dr Herman and what was probablyher most groundbreaking work.
Trauma and recovery likely needno introduction, but take a

(22:29):
listen to what she had to sayabout her latest work, truth and
Repair, and exactly what thattitle means in the context of
survivors of violence.
So when you say truth, do youmean they want people to know
the truth about what happened tothem?

Speaker 6 (22:47):
Exactly.
They want the truth to be outthere and they want the truth to
be recognized.
And they cared much more aboutthe communities, the recognition
and validation from thecommunity, than necessarily a
confession from the perpetratorfrom the community, than
necessarily a confession fromthe perpetrator.
Now, whether he confessed ornot was not nearly as important

(23:08):
to them as whether theirfamilies or their communities or
the people that mattered tothem recognized that, yes, this
happened and it was wrong and itwas harmful.
So it wasn't just the facts ofthe case, but it was the fact
that it was harmful and that itwas wrong.
They wanted the community totake the bystanders, basically

(23:31):
to take sides, and say thisnever should have happened to
you, you're not to blame, thiswas wrong and we will do what we
need, what needs to be done tohelp you recover, what we need,
what needs to be done to helpyou recover.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
This is such an important episode.
So, again, I hope people willgo back and listen to this too.
But survivors want to bebelieved, maria, and they want
to be believed by their family.
They want to be believed bypolice, by juries.
I think that they equate beingbelieved with justice and so

(24:03):
many women just say I wantjustice and I don't know that
they can always define that,that he goes to jail or she gets
a divorce or whatever.
But being believed is what allsurvivors that I've talked to
want.
And there are only two crimesthat I know of where victims
struggle to be believed.
One is domestic violence andthe other is sexual assault.
And I think there are a coupleof reasons for that.

(24:25):
One is there's this sort ofcloud of accusation of false
reporting.
The statistics say that onlybetween 2% and 5% of reports
represent false reporting.
Now, if you ask a group ofpolice officers or out in the
community and you ask them, howmany people do you think falsely

(24:48):
report a sexual assault, thenumbers are like 50 to 60%, and
the truth of the matter is thatit's only about three to 5%, and
of that three to 5%, some isjust recantation.
They just don't want to gothrough with it.
They take the story back againand so those numbers are, and
that doesn't necessarily meanthat it was false reporting,

(25:09):
that it didn't happen.
It just means they don't wantto go through it.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Part of that Exactly, and so it just begs the
question for me of what does anyperson have to gain by falsely
reporting a sexual assault ordomestic violence?
Besides the humiliation of thefact that these things happened
to you?
Why would you want to claimthat?
Well, I think you wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
You wouldn't.
You wouldn't want to why wouldyou bare your soul, bare your
body, bare choices that you hadmade and still walk away and be
called a whore, or you drunk, orwhy did you wear that?
And again the onus becomes onthe victim to prove that there
was a crime perpetrated againsther.

(25:51):
So the accusations of falsereporting.
That's one thing.
Another thing is that there arepreconceived ideas of what a
victim would be thinking or whata victim would act like, and
that's usually not the case.
It's hardly ever the case,right?
I think if she didn't want tobe raped, she would be screaming
and fighting and crying, right?
But the truth of the matter is,anybody who has worked with

(26:13):
victims of trauma know that yourprefrontal cortex disengages
and you are in fight, flight,freeze or appease, and so you
can't imagine what you would doin a case like that, although
people who haven't been in thatsituation think well, if it were
me, I would.
But often her counterintuitivebehavior lends others to think

(26:36):
that she's lying.
She's just lying, otherwise shewould be screaming and you know
yelling rape or that kind ofthing.
So that's another reason Ithink that you know it rape or
that kind of thing.
So that's another reason Ithink that you know so important
to believe survivors.
There's no one way that avictim will process the trauma,
whether it's a flat affect orscreaming or yelling, or has no
memory.
Often we, they just absolutelyhave no memory of the incident.

(26:59):
She may not remember parts ofthe incident, like what he
actually did or how he undressedher or how he attacked her, but
she may remember the color ofhis phone case that he used to
tape it.
So we've heard that storybefore.
But I do think, as Judith Hermansays, you know, survivors want

(27:19):
to be believed and so, even incasual conversation, if you and
I were having a conversation andyou said my husband beat me, if
I come up and say to you, oh mygosh, I can't even believe that
he's such a nice guy, and Idon't mean, I think you're a
liar, but that's how it soundsto you, right, you know, and

(27:40):
he's not a nice guy.
He beat you last night.
You know that kind of thing andyou know he's not a nice guy.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
He beat you last night.
You know that kind of thing.
And to your point, and to DrHerman's point as well, it's all
good and well for there to be alegal system that prosecutes
and gives the perpetratorconsequences in the form of, you
know, punishment, prisonsentence, fines, protective
orders and so on, fines,protective orders and so on.
But in the end, if my familydoesn't believe me and my

(28:08):
friends don't believe me or theyjust tell me I need to get on
with my life, that isdevastating.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
It's devastating and it's re-victimizing the victim.
To be real honest and I'veheard that before where
survivors or family might sayyou're still not over that, or
just the way we casually askquestions or make comments, the
way I would hear it is verydifferent from the way someone
trying to survive would hearthat.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Exactly exactly.
So there's all the survivorstories that we've had on the
show have included some elementof wanting to be believed or
maybe not being believed, andit's important to listen to the
stories of survivors in theirown voices, because that's where
we really find out what peopleneed and what's going to make

(29:00):
them feel healed, you know, toget through their trauma from
these situations.
Speaking of authors, so we'vehad quite a few authors on the
show.
I don't know if that's acoincidence or not, but another
author who visited the show lastyear was Rachel Louise Snyder.
Her latest work Women we Buried, women we Burned released in
2023, and details of her owntrauma with child abuse and

(29:23):
addiction and her own recovery.
The author also offered somethoughts to those who ask why
doesn't she just leave?
There's that question again.
I know it did come up.
It did come up in ourconversation, which is a
wonderful episode.
Here's a clip from RachelLouise Snyder talking about, or
talking in response to whydoesn't she just leave?

(29:43):
It's embedded in the responseto why doesn't she just leave.

Speaker 7 (29:45):
It's embedded in the question why doesn't she just
leave?
The expectation is that loveshouldn't or doesn't play a part
in that relationship, andthat's what makes domestic abuse
so intractable, in fact, isbecause often you do love this
person who is abusing you.
You just want the abuse to stop.
Right, there is a movementaround the acknowledgement of

(30:09):
that, I think today in thedomestic violence community Like
, okay, how do we support thisvictim?
How can we make the abuse stop?
They don't want therelationship to end, and the
problem with seeing it as abuseseparate from love is that it
has this knock on effect withall of our systems.
The police then think thevictim is crazy.

(30:30):
The judiciary then says oh well, you know, they dropped the
charges because you know theywant to stay together or
whatever.
You know it has this, ourinability to kind of see a
relationship more fully and seewhy somebody might want to stay
beyond.
Just, I don't know thefinancial aspects or the
coercion, right, maybe they doactually love this person.

(30:52):
They just want the abuse tostop.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
So you're right, we've been talking about that,
that that's not the questionthat society should be asking.
Certainly we understand that hedoes it because it works asking
certainly we understand that hedoes it because it works, he
does it because he can and hedoes it because we as a society
have not found the impetus forhim to change his behavior.
So if you think about it, amisdemeanor c, the penalty is

(31:14):
the equivalent of a trafficticket and the fine is usually
less than f if he had beencharged with urinating in public
.
So basically, if I can affordthe fine, okay, if I can go and
pay my traffic ticket, then it'sgreen light to do it again.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
And in this case the traffic ticket is beating his
wife.
Yes, it is.
Or whatever the crime is, thatcould be a misdemeanor,
absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
And so we haven't landed on what is worse than
beating your wife.
So a fine's not it.
Maybe a couple of days in jailmaybe Maybe you get fired from
your job, maybe, but it doesn'talways change that behavior.
But I really think that we needto have the answers as to why
she stays, because again, peoplewill ask me, just in my book

(32:04):
club or going for a glass ofwine or something they'll say
you know, I really just don'tget it.
I just don't get it, and it isnot just one reason.
I mean, this gives me anopportunity for the next 30
minutes to say well, she staysbecause she hasn't got any place
to go.
And she stays because shedoesn't have the money for a
hotel and she's not allowed tohave a credit card.
She stays because the childrenshe's afraid for them or he'll

(32:29):
try to get custody of thosekiddos.
She'll stay because of herculture or her faith, or her
safety.
You know there's a phrase, maria, and I don't know that you and
I have talked about that on thispodcast, but there's a phrase
called the shark fin theory, andwe find that women may feel
safer as long as they can seethat shark's fin in the water.

(32:50):
They know where he is, but whenyou can no longer see that fin,
you don't know where he'sswimming around.
So if I do leave, I doeverything right.
I get a protective order.
I know he's going to come afterme I do but I can't see him
coming.
So sometimes I've heard womenand it is counterintuitive.

(33:11):
That may sound, she may feelsafer staying in it, but of
course the number one reason isthat leaving doesn't stop the
violence.
75% of those women who arekilled are killed after they've
left or in the process ofleaving.
So you know there's no easyanswer to this, but I think we
definitely, as a society, needto start asking the right

(33:31):
questions.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
So two things just in response to things that you
said.
Number one safety planning,which is something we talk about
all the time on this show anddaily at Genesis Women's Shelter
and Support.
Safety planning is critical toleaving in a safe way, in a way
that serves your best interestas a survivor, and you can learn
about that on genesisshelterorg, our website.

(33:55):
And the second thing isaccountability.
That's the other word of theday.
So throughout this episode, Ikeep thinking about abusers need
to be accountable for theiractions, and we've talked about
that very frequently on the showand I think you've said it
multiple times on episodes whereyou've been on Genesis, the
podcast.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
We have to reach a point of accountability with
these abusive partners and wejust aren't there yet I think
we're not there yet we do notprovide services to men, men who
batter or men who are battered.
But the other agency in town,the family place, provides
batters intervention andprevention and it's a counseling
program that really you knowthey're, they are made to go,

(34:38):
they're ordered to go and theysit for 12 or 24 weeks and talk
about you know how it felt whenhe hit her, or you know how it
felt when he hit her, or youknow, maybe is there another way
around it.
There's peer counseling.
There's a lot to it, but Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I think the jury's still out on how effective that
really is Well, I know LundyBancroft, who we started off
this show talking about.
He doesn't think that it works.
See, I've talked to ScottHampton in the past on the
podcast on crimes against womenand he has done that work for
years and he'll tell you it justdoesn't work.
Countless other professionalswho do the work can see that the

(35:17):
outcomes really are not great.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
So what is the accountability?
What do you have to do to wantto change your behavior?
Jordan Lawson, who's justbrilliant.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I know Jordan.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yes, you do.
Jordan Lawson for yourlisteners is the chief
residential officer, but asupervisor therapist by
profession, right, and she talksabout core beliefs of an abuser
.
She says that abusers havethree core beliefs.
A core belief is something youcan't change my mind, Right,
it's foundational.

(35:49):
It's foundational.
You could not change my mindabout my love for my
grandchildren.
There's nothing you could say.
You know, we could talkpolitics and we could have
conversations and oh, maybe Inever thought about it that way.
But there are core beliefs thatI have.
I believe in baby Jesus and youcouldn't talk me out of it.
It's just a core belief.
So, anyway, that defines thecore belief.

(36:09):
But for an abuser, he has three.
Number one an abuser's corebelief is that he has the right
to whatever he wants when hewants it.
Entitlement, absolutelyentitlement.
Number two is it is her job tomake it happen.
If I want dinner on time at six, it is her responsibility to
make that happen.
If I want sex every night, orin this way or in this place,

(36:34):
it's her responsibility to makethat happen.
And the third core belief, now,core belief is that he feels
like he has the right to punishher if it doesn't happen.
Is that he feels like he hasthe right to punish her if it
doesn't happen.
So I don't know how you sitaround in 12 weeks and change
those core beliefs, change apattern of behavior that may
have been going on his entirelife.
That sounds like years oftherapy to me.

(36:57):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
therapy, and you'd have to be very committed to
wanting to change it that's ittoo To acknowledging the issues
in yourself.
So you'd be very reflective,right and then committed to
changing them.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
And if it's possible In your opinion?
Do you think abusers, who andof course they're way down the
line by the time we interact,but do you feel like abusers
have that self-awareness thatthey could just sit up and say
you know what?
I've been screwing this up thewhole time?
I would find that very unlikely.
I would find it unlikely.
I mean, I'm full of hope and Iwould hope they could.

(37:35):
I would hope there are peoplewho could see you know I'm
hurting my wife and I'm ruiningmy life.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I think that there's a reinforcement of those three
core beliefs oh, no doubt aboutit Throughout our society, no
doubt about it.
That then makes it verychallenging, number one, to
confront them in yourself andidentify that, hey, this might
be a problem because, like, look, there's no one else around me,
my wife left me, my kids hateme and, you know, nobody wants

(38:02):
to talk to me anymore.
But the way that societyfunctions here in the United
States a lot of times it makesit seem like those are the norm,
absolutely, absolutely.
I can't say every man that Iknow behaves that way, because
that wouldn't be true.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Right, Right.
No, of course it's reinforcedby society.
It's reinforced byentertainment.
You know, you look at truecrime shows or just shows in the
evening on the television.
They are objectifying women.
You could watch the news.

(38:42):
We are in a place in ourcountry, in our lives, that is
such a misogynistic climate andI do want to talk about that,
how that reinforces political orit's again entertainment, or it
is the church you go to orwhatever it is.
This behavior is reinforced anduntil we as a society find the

(39:05):
impetus for him to change hisbehavior, there's no reason for
him to.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Absolutely, and those topics, you know that is part
of our conversation every weekon the show in some way shape or
form, so it's all woven intoconversations on Genesis, the
podcast, and we go way back toSeptember 2021.
It doesn't sound like that longago, but, man, that was three

(39:29):
years ago.
A lot has happened since then.
So much has happened.
We've taken a lot of stepsforward as a country and we've
taken some steps back, so weneed to just keep our eye on the
ball.
We launched this show rightafter an already highly
successful run of our sistershow, the podcast on crimes
against women, now entering itssixth season, which that show

(39:52):
started in 2020.
But if we go way back toSeptember 2021, jan, do you
remember who our very firstguest was on Genesis?
I?

Speaker 2 (40:01):
do?
I do because I was so excited.
Leslie Morgan Steiner, yes, isan amazing person Before we talk
about Leslie.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Let's listen to Leslie in a quick sound bite,
because Leslie has something tosay about every survivor being
the expert in her own case.

Speaker 8 (40:19):
We are the experts about the dangers that we face
and we know our abusers reallywell.
And if we can be empowered toleave, and to leave safely, I
think that we know how to leaveand there were several things
that I did when I was leavingthat, when I look back, it shows
how I knew I was in so muchdanger, but also how I wanted to
protect myself.
The fact that I went to thepolice, that I got a restraining

(40:42):
order immediately, that Iserved the restraining order,
that I had it made public that Ihired a lawyer, that I refused
to be alone with them.
I took a lot of actions to takecare of myself.
That, I think, sent a veryclear message to my ex-husband
that this was really serious.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Leslie and I have had conversations about her
theories that survivors areexperts in their own care and
yes, to some extent I absolutelyagree with that.
I think a survivor is best toknow how to stay safe living
with this perpetrator, when toduck, so to speak.
But so many victims do notrecognize what their partner is

(41:23):
doing is abuse, might say, weargue, we might say he drinks, I
might say I push his buttons,and so on and so forth, but not
able to step back and see thatpattern, that cycle of abuse.
That's why I think this podcastis so important.
We need to spread awareness onwhat is domestic abuse.
What are the resources?
Where is the help?

(41:44):
It is a crime.
It is against the law.
What bystanders and upstanderscan do about it?
So, yes, I want to empower everysingle survivor and really
applaud her courage for livingin what she lives in and
hopefully getting out, which mayeven be harder, and hopefully
getting out, which may even beharder.
But I also feel that many donot know that there is help and

(42:09):
there is hope, and that's whatthe Genesis message is all the
time there is help and there ishope, and that is one call away.
We don't tell somebody she hasto leave.
When she calls in on ourhelpline or texts in, we don't
say you've got to get out ofthere.
Helpline or texts in, we don'tsay you've got to get out of
there.
We can, you know, help herhopefully, be safe, help her
understand what's the impact onher children.
But until we can fill herpockets full of that information

(42:34):
, I don't feel she can make aneducated choice on what to do
next, what those next steps are.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, and Leslie's story in a lot of ways is it's
like a lot of women's stories.
She was in it for years, didn'treally fully accept the fact
that this, like what this was.
This was domestic violence, andit had a lot of the elements
that we talk about prettyregularly the isolation, the

(43:02):
firearms, so on and so forth.
If you missed that episode,it's still available in our
library.
Go back to September 2021 andlook for Leslie Morgensteiner's
Survivors Are the Experts.
Her book Crazy Love is alsoavailable for purchase wherever
you are in the world.
I believe it's in severallanguages.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I think you're right.
I think you're right, but youknow, the first time I ever
heard her was when I watched herTED Talk that is entitled Crazy
Love, and I recommend it toeveryone listening.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, If you don't have an hour to listen to the
show, if you don't have a coupleof hours to listen to the audio
book, google Leslie MorganSteiner and watch the TED Talk,
because you will learn a lot.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
It is so clear to me the insidious nature of that
relationship, as you mentioned,the isolation, the course of
control that we were talkingabout earlier, the escalation to
violence, and she reallyvalidates the idea that domestic
violence does not discriminate.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
It could happen to anyone.
Yes, yes, you know it canhappen to any woman from any
walk of life.
And you know, in her case,she's a highly educated,
professional woman who got inthis relationship and couldn't
get out.
She did wind up finallyescaping with her life and she

(44:23):
did all the steps that peoplewould, you know, think you would
do in safety planning.
Um, and I'm really pleased totell you that Leslie Morgan
Steiner is coming back to theshow for season four, so you
will hear her in September.
I can't wait to bring her backto this audience and to this
conversation.
Wait to bring her back to thisaudience and to this

(44:45):
conversation.
We have made so much progresssince we launched Genesis, the
podcast, jan.
There are other things we'vemade progress on as well.
It's not just the show right.
So many other things havehappened at Genesis.
What are your favorite momentsfrom the past few years?

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Oh, wow, that's a hard question about my favorite
moments, because every day I getup and I find joy in something
that an employee says or anaccomplishment of a survivor or
a program at Genesis.
One of the things that wedefinitely you and I worked
really hard to accomplish is thefact that Genesis

(45:19):
non-residential was in aleasehold space that we had
outgrown.
It was kind of seedy.
I remember Not enough parking.
Yeah, you know what I'm talkingabout.
There weren't enough offices theformer insurance office yoga
studio, yeah, and there was norhyme or reason to it.
There'd be a lawyer next to achild therapist next to an
accountant.

(45:39):
So it was time and we were ableto buy a piece of property not
far from that location.
We raised you and I togetherraised, you know, over $20
million to and I look at that,maria, as 20 million promises to
women that say we will be there, you don't have to have left,

(46:00):
you may have other residentialresources, you may not need our
shelter, but we are going to bethere with that same counseling
and advocacy and access to civillegal representation.
So not only were we able todouble the capacity since this
podcast started, but we built itaround a trauma-informed
approach and we built it aroundan occupational therapeutic

(46:27):
approach.
We've recognized, since thispodcast started, the
intersectionality betweenneurodiversity and domestic
violence and we were seeing moreand more particularly children
coming into our shelter thatwere on the autism spectrum.
So again, you layer that withthe trauma of the abuse and
mom's inability to take care ofthat child, and we and I talked

(46:52):
to other agencies who said theyalso had seen an increase.
Our answer to that was you knowwhat?
Let's put occupational therapyon site, let's teach that child
you know how to deescalate, orthat mom to how to deescalate,
how to increase your corestrength or how to communicate
when you are nonverbal.
So it has made a tremendousdifference.

(47:14):
We have it at shelter, we havea residential occupational
therapist along with a sensoryroom, and at our non residential
we have a sensory room and atour non-residential we have a
sensory room and an occupationaltherapist on site there as well
.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
And way back over the past couple of years I believe
in 2021 and 2022, we talkedabout occupational therapy on
the podcast because we were soexcited about the program and
the pilot program that we did atGenesis back a couple of years
ago that really started thiswhole thing and we were seeing

(47:47):
such a positive outcomes Exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
We are so pleased at where it is right now and we
still want to keep going andgrowing with that.
Sure, we have recently hired abilingual occupational therapist
and she goes wherever the needis, but that was a rare find for
us and that's the thing about.
I've been at Genesis for overthree decades and I didn't come

(48:10):
in with some strategic masterplan.
We just look and we see okay,what are the needs, what are the
gaps, who's not being servedand how can we make a difference
?
The second thing that we'vedone since this podcast is
started is in recognition thatwomen of color are assaulted
more often than white women.
We actually have gone intoSouthern Dallas, 75216 zip code,

(48:36):
which has the largest number ofincidents and the fewest
resources, and this is an areawhere the demographics 52% are
African American and 48% areLatin, and so we decided to go
large and in charge right wherethe need is, and we have a
non-residential center there.
The work is needed and a lot ofit is walk-in.

(48:59):
I need help.
Right now it's a little moreemergent than our office over on
Lucas, the new building, butthe point being is between the
new building and the newprogramming, and we just
continue to look and say, okay,what's the next gap?
What isn't happening?
Who isn't being served?

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah.
So to your point.
I mean, you actually do have amaster strategic plan.
I do now, you do now.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
But I didn't come with one Right.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
You didn't come with one, but we do have one now and
included the founding of theNational Training Center on
Crimes Against Women, which welaunched in 2023 when we opened
the building, the $20 millionbuilding on Lucas Drive in
Dallas.
We talked about the NationalTraining Center on the show last

(49:44):
year because we were reallyexcited about when we were
getting ready to launch it, andI want to give people a sound
bite that really sums up thepurpose and programs of the
center.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
How can other people get involved?
How can your listeners be apart of this?
Well, what is the system withinwhich you work?
Is it faith community?
Is it a hospital?
Is it a lawyer's office?
Is it?
Do you know, your police chief?
You ought to.
If you don't, you need to gointroduce yourselves and say
that this issue is important andit's impacting one out of every

(50:12):
three women we pass, and thisis a pandemic, actually an equal
opportunity epidemic, as amatter of fact.
So I think all listeners couldstop and think and say oh, you
know what?
I'm the HR person for XYZcompany.
We don't have a domesticviolence policy in place.
I wonder if I could go andlearn that at this training

(50:33):
center.
And, of course, the answer isyes.
We will be listing out thethings that we will be doing,
but we absolutely are like sendus your suggestions.
What do you want to hear about?
What do you want to learn moreabout?
Is that a trauma-informedapproach?
Is that occupational therapy?
We will help design trainingprograms around what people let

(50:54):
us know are the needs.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
And Genesis is entering its own milestone in
2025, which I can't believe.
We're more than halfway throughthis year to begin with.
But here we come, 2025, for our40th anniversary.
Janice, you look back and ahead.
What's on your mind as a leaderin this space?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Well, I'm glad you asked that.
I think we have come so far,but we have so much left to do.
The Texas Council on FamilyViolence has statistics that
show how many women are turnedaway from shelters because there
are no available beds.
Genesis has a 14-room shelter.
We can house 40 people eachevening, but that's not enough.

(51:36):
We need more beds for survivorseverywhere.
I think we're going to have toaddress that.
I think we need to address andhave stronger gun laws and
legislators.
Vote for people who willrecognize that most violence
doesn't start in the street.
It starts in the home andspills out into the streets.
But I have to tell you, Mariaand you've known me for several
years we're not going to standdown.

(51:57):
We are not going to take a stepback.
We're not going to go into atime when women had no rights.
I was going down a TikTok holethe other day and there was an
interview of somebody who feltvery strongly about Make America
Great Again and he had a hat onand a shirt on and the person,
the interviewer, said when doyou think that is?

(52:19):
What was that time whereAmerica was great again?
And he said the 1950s and Ithought we barely had the right
to vote.
In the 50s.
As a woman, I was not able totry in my marriage and I wasn't
married in the 50s, but I wasmarried in the 70s and at that
time, as a woman, I could nottravel abroad without my

(52:40):
husband's permission.
In my married lifetime, Icouldn't have my own checking
account or my own credit cardwithout my husband's permission.
In my married lifetime, Icouldn't have my own checking
account or my own credit cardwithout my husband's permission.
You know, we've only, out ofthe 250 years of America, we've
only had the right to vote for100 years, and so I don't think
we can ever, ever stop thinkingabout that or take it for
granted.

(53:00):
You know, in 73, 1973, Roe vWade was passed, guaranteeing a
woman's right to choose until2022, when it was overturned,
turning those protections backto the states.
Now, whether you think it's afederal issue or a state issue,
that's not the issue that wehave so much hateful political

(53:22):
dialogue going right now that isintended to reduce women's
rights that we've worked so hardto accomplish.
If they can reverse Roe v Wade,after what is that?
50 years, what's next?
No IVF, no contraception, whatelse?
I saw a clip of Vice PresidentKamala Harris, when she was

(53:44):
interviewing Brett Kavanaugh foras a senator, interviewing
Brett Kavanaugh for the SupremeCourt, and she just said will
you please tell me a law, afederal law, that governs what a
man can do with his body?
And you know, Kavanaugh hemmedand hawed and talked about
medical procedures and she goesno, tell me about a law that

(54:05):
governs a man's body.
And of course there is none.
There is not one Right.
So why would we, as over halfthe voting population, dare to
stand up against that?

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, there's so much chatter about having babies or
not having babies, and if womendon't have babies, then that
means one thing, if they havebabies.
That means they have to stayhome and then we're in this
other power cycle of babies.
But I saw speaking of TikTokholes.
I did see one the other day.
That really made me think, andit might make you think or laugh

(54:40):
too.
It said people keep talkingabout how kamala harris has not
herself given birth to a baby.
She's a stepmom, right, whichis which is a mom as far as I'm
concerned, really it's none ofmy business.
But um well, there's nopresident in the history of the

(55:00):
united states of america who hasgiven birth to a baby.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
So what is the big freaking?

Speaker 2 (55:06):
deal here?
I don't know, I don't know.
One in particular, a senatorwho is on a ticket right now is
saying that you know you oughtto let.
If you have the more childrenyou have, you ought to have more
voting power, although theparents would be in charge of
how that child voted.
So if you had your two sons youwould get four votes in your

(55:27):
house.
But really, but I get three, Ibet you'd still get one.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Do I even get?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
one.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
If you're lucky if you're lucky.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
But if you look at it , men haven't had babies.
Why should they get a vote?
So if that's going to be therule of the land, maybe just
women with children vote.
It works until it doesn't workanymore.
It works until it doesn't workanymore.
Now get me started.
I mean we need to have thiselection quickly, because it is
it's only July.
We have several months to go.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
It's hard, it's hard, it is hard.
It's a tough environment, itreally is, and especially for

(56:18):
women.
And if you don't think thatdoesn't trickle down to in my
home, behind closed doors, thathe can do whatever into the
cafeteria, onto the sports fieldand so on and so forth.
And so if you think it's notaffecting the next generation,
this horrible rhetoric that wehear and talk about each other,
the way we slam women the minutethey get the Democratic

(56:42):
nomination, for the presidencyof the United States.

Speaker 6 (56:44):
She laughs too much.
What's the matter with her?
Yeah, she laughs too much.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
She laughs too much she didn't give birth to a baby,
Then, yeah, it affects everyone.
Kids hear everything and theysoak it all in Well.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
I hate for the listeners to think that all I do
is go down TikTok hauls.
But there was another one thatsaid, if you're going to
criticize a woman running foroffice, that said, if you're
going to criticize a womanrunning for office, she's not
going to hear you, but yourdaughter will and your
granddaughters will and yoursister will, and that's the
point, and that's the point.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
That is the point, and it is internalized and I
think that it's projected ontooneself either as the reason for
it.
So there's guilt and there'sshame and embarrassment and, oh
my God, I'm going to be next.
This is the way men treat women.
That's just the way that it is.
I can expect to get married,have babies and then still get
strangled or worse.

(57:31):
They're listening and they'rewatching, yes, and so your point
is well taken.
We have covered all of this andso many other issues related to
domestic violence on the show,from grief to strangulation,
traumatic brain injury, massshootings and so much more, and
I don't mean to gloss over thesevery important issues because

(57:52):
they are all critical tounderstanding the experience of
abuse.
I encourage everyone to catchup on past episodes and if you
have an idea for a topic, youcan let us know by sending an
email to podcast atgenesisshelterorg.
I want to leave our audiencewith what I think is a really
compelling call to action fromyou, jan, as heard on Genesis

(58:12):
the Podcast.
Take a quick listen to a verybrief portion of episode 21 from
season two.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Genesis can't do it all on our own.
We can't take care of enoughpeople, we can't take enough
phone calls.
It's going to have to becommunities looking each to the
other and saying I'm scared foryou and, by the way, there is
help and there is hope.
And if we have to codify all ofthat, well then, so be it.
Watch out, we're on our wayback to.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Austin.
Jan, thanks for being here andfor making Genesis the podcast
possible.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
No, this is my pleasure.
This is so important, and thankyou for hosting it.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Week after week, month after month, it is so
important to me to keep thisshow going.
We'll be back in a few weekswith a whole new season.
You can always reach out toGenesis 24-7, by call or text
214-946-HELP 214-946-4357,.
Or visit our website atgenesisshelterorg.
2 1, 4, 9, 4, 6.
Help 2, 1, 4, 9, 4, 6, 4, 3, 5,7,.
Or visit our website at Genesisshelterorg.

(59:08):
Genesis, the podcast seasonfour will launch September 9th.
While we're away, catch up onpast episodes and with our
sister show, the podcast oncrimes against women, and follow
Genesis on social media forupdates on everything happening
in our community of support.
Find us on Facebook andInstagram at Genesis Women's
Shelter and on X at GenesisShelter.

(59:29):
Attention, spanish-speakinglisteners Listen to the end of
this podcast for information onhow to reach a Spanish-speaking
representative of Genesis.

Speaker 9 (59:39):
Atención hispanohablantes Escucha este
podcast hasta el final pararecibir información de cómo
comunicarse con el personal deGenesis en español.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
If you or someone you know is in an abusive
relationship.
You can get help or give helpat genesisshelterorg or by
calling or texting our 24-7Crisis Hotline Team at
214-946-HELP 214-946-4357.

(01:00:18):
Thank you.
Women and children escapingdomestic violence are always
needed.
Learn more at genesisshelterorgslash donate.
Thanks for joining us.
I'm reminding you always thatending domestic violence begins
when we believe her Genesis.

Speaker 9 (01:00:32):
El podcast anuncia servicios bilingües disponibles
en Genesis Women's Shelter,esupport.
Si usted o una conocida está enuna relación abusiva, puede
recibir ayuda o dar ayuda agenesisshelterorg o por llamar o
mandar mensaje de texto anuestra línea de crisis de 24
horas al 214-946-4357.

(01:00:58):
Servicios bilingües de Genesisincluyen mensajes de texto, text
messages, calls, counseling,legal services, advice and more.
Call us or send us a text formore information.
Donations are always needed tosupport women or children
escaping domestic violence.
Learn more at our website,atesisshelterorg.

(01:01:23):
Barra inclinada donate.
Gracias por unirse con nosotros.
Recuerden que el terminar laviolencia doméstica empieza
cuando creemos a la víctima.
Thank you,