October 30, 2024 • 35 mins
You asked for it - our coverage of the HBO Max docu-series, Chimp Crazy. We'll post episode 2 next week, or it's available right now on our Patreon.
Related episodes:
Ep. 81: Marauding Chimps
Ep. 62: We're Not Monkey Sympathizers
Ep. 14: Travis the Pet Chimpanzee
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Tiktok, check out our website GetOutAlivePodcast.com and join us on Patreon where you can now follow us for free!
Support the show for free by leaving a 5-star review wherever you're listening, or on GoodPods or Podchaser (where we can respond to your comments).
You can find Ashley @TheAngryOlogist on Twitter.
Related episodes:
Ep. 81: Marauding Chimps
Ep. 62: We're Not Monkey Sympathizers
Ep. 14: Travis the Pet Chimpanzee
Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Tiktok, check out our website GetOutAlivePodcast.com and join us on Patreon where you can now follow us for free!
Support the show for free by leaving a 5-star review wherever you're listening, or on GoodPods or Podchaser (where we can respond to your comments).
You can find Ashley @TheAngryOlogist on Twitter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hi, everyone, Welcome back to Get Out Alive. Thank you
all for being so patient as I took a break
to get married, and thank you all so much for
sending congratulations and kind words. And I just wanted to
wait a bit to come back because I wanted to
refresh the podcast. So we've got some great guests coming up,
including a literal dream guest that I never thought I
(00:37):
would ever get a chance to talk to. All Right,
way to come in before, I was gonna give you
a cute fine Nick's here.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hi, I'm Nick. Those I'm the man, You're.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
The man of this operation. I'm the woman. So I
wanted to get back, like the first few episodes, back
into more like classic Get Out of Live episodes on
a T I guess this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Isn't very not super classic.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Traditional of ours, but also in a way, it's within
the lines, it's in the realm. We talked about people
getting messed up by something that we both mutually hate
the famously.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hate them, chimps chimpanzees.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So today we are beginning our coverage of the HBO
documentary chim Crazy. Per so many of your recommendations, I
had no idea what this was. So many of you
asked us to cover it, though I can't even cite
one person because so many of you have asked to
hear our opinions and we have.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
A lot of them, and I did not have any
requests coming to me, So I knew nothing about this before.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Don't give out any social media No.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, that's good. Yeah, I'm not complaining. No, I'm saying
like I went in like blind blind.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I tried to purposely not know anything about this before
we watch because I just knew it was chim crazy.
And then a picture of a lady with a lot
of plastic surgery and a chimp. But I was like,
this can't be good, and it's good so far, We're right.
It's not well, it's awesome, it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It's really good, but also not good horrible.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah. So before we start reviewing the documentary, as is
the Newish tradition, we're going to read a review as
a thank you to all of you who take a
moment to leave us a five star review on Apple
Podcasts or podchaser Nick.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
This episode's review is from Apple Podcasts from September twenty first,
twenty twenty four from Jersey Girl in Vermont. She wrote,
just found this podcast and I'm really enjoying it. Well,
thank you, Jersey Girl. I appreciate that. Thank you. I
know we have a lot of big fans out there.
I am kind of a big deal, you know. I
had to take some time off to Papa Roster's coming
after me. But I just know that the sports out
(02:32):
there is really nice. Didn't miss me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
A lot of people have been asking for you, so yeah, they're.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Going to get the full fill today. No, I'm on
that app all right, subscribed, not off the street. It's important.
It actually two been three months together. Was paying the ass.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Also, as I teased on our Instagram, we have new
merch with our new logos. We've got a unisex T
shirt and a unisex crew neck. I've got a small
in the crew neck which I'm currently wearing. If fits
me perfectly. I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, I have a double excel.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I bought I well because it was U and sex.
I wasn't sure if the T shirt was going to
be small or big. I've been losing weight, okay, well,
so the T shirt's good point are a little big.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
They run a little big, little bit, just a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So if you think that you're between two sizes, order
the smaller one probably yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I mean it's kind of hard to say, like
that double ex cell is big, so I can't even
recommend like I'm usually an excel Like I'm usually like
I need like a long large really, but I like
using an excel. I have no idea short as well. Yeah,
and I got a long to ourself. I got no
idea what kind of sizing it's it's gonna be for men,
no clue.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So recording this around my dogs is tough when one
of them starts chewing a phone as soon as we
start recording. So if you hear crunching, that's what that is.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, this is back to the classic geos, so we're.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Good, well classic geo.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
That's pretty smooth with it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Also, thank you to everyone on Patreon who gave their
input on what colors that we should make available for
the T shirts and crens.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What one? I mean there's a lot of colors. Oh,
I mean, I'm assuming that they voted on it, right.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Well kind of Yeah, people mostly wanted like orange and
also green. I'm gonna mess around with the green. So
by the time this comes out, they'll probably be Green.
So this docuseries is called Chimp Crazy. It's on HBO
Max and it's directed by Eric Good, who is the
same guy that directed Tiger King, and that comes through
for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah. Oh, big time, big time, good storyteller.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Honestly, the music is great, the colors are great. The
way that he like cuts obviously it's not just him,
it's like a whole team of producers and stuff. But
the way that they cut between things is also like
expertly done.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Has to be like, the editing team has to be
the exact same people because they're really good at making
you feel like you discovered stuff when really there's like
setting up for you.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Then they get it almost like an investigory, investigatory thing.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, so investigatory.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah yeah, but then they say like like like like
sneak stuff in where it's like, oh, you'll notice this
that I was telling you. It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah. We also watched it twice and it was really
nice watching it the second time.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh my god, the drama we've made connections. Oh god,
that drama.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Get into it. So we're going to cover this episode
by episode. This is episode one of the documentary and
we are going to release the other episodes on Patreon.
Hell yeah, so episode one is titled monkey Love, which
(05:12):
we already have a problem with considering that chimps are
the lnkeys. Oh yeah, no, oh well that too.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That's well, yeah, there's a lot of well not a lot,
but there's some beasts there.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
There's like some weird yeah, so I guess just a
warning for that.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
We start by seeing a woman who we later find
out is Tanya Haddocks, and she is describing how when
you adopt a monkey, the bond that you feel with
them is more deep than if you were to give
birth to a human child, continuing on to say, because quote,
chimps don't grow up and join a community like human children.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, so they're totally dependent on you and only you,
and you have to take care of them forever, which
is any pet. But also yeah, but if you know,
pets live for forty years, sixty.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Years, yeah, around forty years.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I was on an animal podcast like two years. I
have no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Well that shocks no one.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That has been so true, so true.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
But also if you know anything about chimps, you know
that they literally grow up to be in a community.
But yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh my god, she's an idiot.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, well that and many other reasons. But Tanya also
describes herself as the quote Dolly Parton of chimps.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
If you see one photo, you don't know why.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, a lot of classic surgery.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's like it's really interesting because like
they kind of show like snippets of her throughout the years,
and she changes a lot. Yeah she does. It's creepy.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So she's also seen at the beginning with a like,
as she's talking about this, with a small black baby
monkey that you cannot convince me is not Ai.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It looks really weird. Yeah, but I think it's the
same monkey is on her lap for a lot of
the interviews.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, it just it does not look real to me.
So she also says that chimps are better than owning
capuchin monkeys, So like the smaller monkeys that I would
say typically more people probably have because they're more easily manageable,
because you can quote shape chimps into you.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I know, no you cannot.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So we're gonna get back to Tanya in a bit,
but for now, let's move on to another character in
this documentary. So we then go on to meet Pam
rose Are, who said at seven years old, she decided
she wanted to be the world's most famous chimp trainer.
And she also came from a family of circus people,
so it like, I guess that was a reasonable goal
for her to have at all time.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It just like into it.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and as the recording of this series, she is
still training chimps and performing. She also said chimps have
ninety eight point four percent human DNA?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Which I of course had to look up. I mean,
the way that she worded it, it's like, well, it
came through the same common ancestors. I mean that they
have our DNA. But I found an article from twenty
twenty three that said that statistic of us sharing that
much DNA with chimps is from a two thousand and
five study. As you can imagine, science has progressed. Yeah,
and the study was a single protein to protein comparison
(07:50):
before the chimp genome was fully sequenced.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Oh no, shit, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So a twenty eighteen study performed by an evolutionary geneticist
did a one to one analysis of human chimp nucleotides
and said, quote, the percentage of nucleotides and the human
genome that had one to one exact matches and the
chimp genome was eighty four point three eight percent. Still
still a lot, but not as much. No, but other
studies have since claim that we share some percentage between
(08:16):
like the eighties and the nineties range of similarity. But
it all depends on what method of sequencing that you're using.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Also, the point of this is, although we may share
a lot of DNA with chimps, we also share roughly
sixty percent of DNA with bananas. Yeah, and it's not
that like we are sixty percent banana and bananas are
sixty percent people. It's the quantity of shared DNA isn't important.
It's the quality of the DNA that is shared. So
(08:44):
there's a reason that we're talking on a podcast and
that chimps don't have their own podcast, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Do they not? I bet there's a chimp podcasts out there. Yeah,
but like well they said, I mean, it's all sign language,
so it's a little Yeah, it doesn't get all listeners.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
That's called the video. Well, so anyways, Pam somehow got
a hold of a prematurely born chimp. No idea if
she was breeding them or what. But she said that
chimp wasn't doing well and chimps can't process baby formula.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
No, they cannot.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And thankfully for this chimp, Pam had just given birth
to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So there's only one way this is gonna go.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, we paused it soon she said that, and I
was like, oh my god, yep, please tell me this
is not about to happen.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
The secrets of events that happened with us the first
time we watched that crazy well it was.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It was very funny on our Instagram if you follow
us and saw that story, it was us in real
time realizing what was about to happen. What happened was
Pam started breastfeeding this chimp while also breastfeeding her child.
So two boobs, a chimp on one, her human baby
on the other, and.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Her husband just standing there like wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That was the expertly cut moment where it cut to
her husband. He went, yeah, so said, I think you said
a quote like I walked in she had a chimp
on one booby and a baby on the other.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah. The word yes, go booby was a picture of boobs.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, it was shocking.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Also that's a really good point. I should have looked
this up before we recorded, but I thought there was
something out there about like chimps having fascination with like
human breasts. And there's a picture of Pam topless in
the documentary surrounded by like four or five chimps.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I mean, isn't it like, I don't I don't know this.
It isn't like a thing where they tear each those
gentles off, like when they're fighting for mates.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's what I mean. Yeah, like they're known to tear
also when they attack humans like that. Oh god, Yeah,
so that seems so insane. I mean obviously she's raising
and training them, so she thinks, yeah whatever. Yeah, she
didn't have her breast ripped off ever, so clearly she
was like it was fine. But I just that's a.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
That was a choice. It was absolutely wild start to
this documentary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Also, like baby bottles apparently don't need them.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That's kind of what I was thinking, to can pump
and feed with that, Like I feel like that'd be
a little safer and healthier. Yep, for the you know,
what is the like quality of human breast book compared
to like chimp breasts?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, so upon your request of asking this before we recorded,
I found a study from twenty sixteen titled Immunoglobin A
and Nutrients and Milk from Great Apes throughout lactation and
Long story, short quote, differences between human and ape milk
may lie more in bioactive slash immune molecules than nutrients,
which basically means, like nutrition wise, it's more or less
(11:30):
similar enough that it could pass between and like you
could still grow up healthily. Yeah, but the immune health
benefits that you get from your mother's milk is different
between a chimp and a human, Yes, because we are
fighting different diseases.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, okay, so that's the main.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Difference I think is that you're not getting the same
like immune.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Boost from it. Also seems weird to me. I imagine diet,
like the mother's diet is very important as to what
nutrients the baby's gonna get. Yeah, of course, Well, obviously
a human is not eating the same foods. Well this
show anyway, like they shouldn't be eating the same foods,
Like there's no way that she's giving the right nutrients
these Oh no, we never learn the chimp's name. We
(12:09):
never learn if the chimp is survives, it's yeah, Orginal,
I mean it was you know, born early, Like it's
not her fault, but like we never learned what happens
with this.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
This check so this chimp that was breatfed.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, I mean they could have gone poortably wrong and
they just didn't acknowledge it. Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
So moving on from that, that's kinda last we hear
from Pam in this episode.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I don't know if she's gonna which is okay, she
just kind of introduces us to.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
How insane this world is. But yeah, so she Like
the most important bit of information that Pam gives us,
other than the fact that she breastfettered chimp, is that
someone named Connie Casey was responsible for seventy five percent
of the captive population of chimps in America, which.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Is absolutely fucking insane.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, according to the people in this film.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yes, yeah, we did not fact check that at all.
I don't know how we would even be able to
do that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah. So I don't know, because we literally only watched
episode one so far. I'm not sure if they cover
it in future episodes. But if you're a longtime listener
of this podcast or you've just like listened to earlier episodes.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Travis.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Travis the Chimpanzee, one of our most listen to episodes,
famously ripped off the face of Charlie Nash and Connecticut,
was born and bred in this facility.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The very first chimpanzee that that woman had. What's his dad? Yeah,
that's wild.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
We'll get there in a second.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thing wild. I'm sorry, I jump ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Well, yeah, but it's okay. So, as of the filming
of this, Connie is the owner of Missouri Primate Foundation
in Festus, Missouri. However, Connie is a very closed off person.
You can probably imagine why.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So the director hired a fake proxy director who made
contact in July twenty twenty one with Tanya, the woman
I mentioned up.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Top, and this director of the documentary. You're not director
of Flake the Establishment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Correct, Yeah, the director hired a fake director because the
director tried to get in contact with Connie and she
was like absolutely not. So she's like, oh, I'll just
hire this new guy that she doesn't know the face
of and lie.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So let's just acknowledge that right away. Like, that's a
little fucked up. But I don't love that. That seems
like shady journalist.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, it does to me too. Also, this proxy director
is Dwayne Cunningham, who was a felon up. No, they
said in the documentary, Wow, I miss that he's a
fellon from smuggling wildlife.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Oh shit, did I miss that?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
How much wildlife you have to smuggle to become a felon?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
We watched this episode three times? Did I missed that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Well clearly don't.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Wow, I'm assume one wildlife. Wait I think.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
No, he smuggled like a ton of reptiles. So Tany
was originally a nurse and after her kids left her house,
she did a meet. She was like searching for I guess,
like connection, I don't know. And she did a meet
and great experience with a chimp at Connie's and said
it was the happiest she's ever been. So she moved
on to Connie's property as a volunteer to help her.
(14:54):
So Tanya said she loves working with them because quote,
they never break your heart and don't grow up to
get a mind of their which is barely even true
for a domesticated animal, let alone a chimp.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
No, just like even just to point that out as
a positive of having these things during life, it's so
crazy to me. Yeah, it's so crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, and I like, don't get me wrong, Like I
completely understand having passion for animals, but to say you've
literally never been happy otherwise is crazy and definitely warrants
like at least a therapy session.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Or but like I don't have any pets on my own,
but like I want a dog who's going to be
like an independent breed and like be able to have
their own life and have their own thoughts and like
have their own personality. I don't want them on my
favorite personally any animal. Yeah, I can deal with two
of me. That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And you know I understand, Like, you know, like my dogs,
for example, they're pretty chill and like when I want
to do stuff, they're like, yeah, sure we'll do stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
But they have their own personalities.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, exactly, they do their own thing. Yeah, all right.
So Connie got her first baby chimp quote wild caught
from Africa, which means plucked out of the wild. And
this first chimp was Coco, and from here she started
breeding them and selling them off. And also when people
(16:04):
would buy chimps from her or just I guess have
chimps from anyone else, And when the chimps grew up
to become too much to handle, as is expected with
a chimp, they would dump them back at Connie's place.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
What else are you gonna do with it? The first
of all, don't buy the fucking chimpanzee. Well what do
you do with a chimp once it's full grown? You
can't handle it?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, similar to us owning an alliator. There was not
a lot of foresight into what we were doing within
the future.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah. No.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Once again, if you've been along, I'm not gonna go
into that story. But uh, I've had some things.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So go check out the rivers in New Hampshire, Dad,
stop it.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So before opening the nonprofit now known as Missouri Primate Foundation,
Connie and her husband owned the company Chimp Party, where
you could pay to have a chimp come to your event.
And this is how they made a lot of their money,
aside from the chimps that were on greeting cards or
in movies or commercials. And they said this was a
venture so that they could raise more money for better
enclosures for their chimps. But at one time Connie's facility
(17:01):
they had over forty chimps oh my god. One of
their chimps named Tonka was in movies like George of
the Jungle and Babe two, but as of the filming
of this first episode, he's been stuck inside his cage
for over a year, like inside because he had a stroke.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
That's so nuts to me, Like you can't bring him
out for enrichment or anything. It tame for a walk exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So in two thousand and one, Angela Scott, a woman
who's like pretty prominent in this first episode, started as
a volunteer with Connie, but she quickly started to realize
things were not as they seemed. For example, Connie's husband
Mike is seen in the documentary explaining that a chimp
quote didn't know what he was doing when he grabbed
a toddler's foot at an event. But as Mike is
saying this, there's clearly been major trauma to his face
(17:45):
that Nick and I clocked immediately and we were like,
there's no way that this was not from a chimpanzee.
And come to find out, it's because one day Mike
went into a chimp named Bo's cage, which you see
a picture of Bo very young at the beginning of
the episode, and Bow ran up to him and bit
his nose off, and Connie had to go in and
retrieve his nose to be reattached.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What a wild they have to go do? Yeah, take
up your husband's nose. Ye, and like he had a
scarf from like above one of his eyebrows diagonally across
his face down to the other cheek, and his nose
was just like.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You could tell gone.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
A few years later, Angela noted that Bow quote died
of natural causes, even though he was a young chimp
at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's what kind of that's what causes.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Those Yeah, Well similar to Tiger King where.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
They're like, oh they just died, got it? Yeah, I
gotta get a troublesome animal. Well, I just you know,
went to the farm.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
So.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Angela also reported that chimps not being used in these
parties would just sit inside and do nothing all day,
and one journalist likened Connie's operation to a puppy mill
for chimpanzees.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That sucks, I mean, that's just insane. I mean, how
how is that legal? I don't I don't think it
is anymore, but like, how the fuck was.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I mean, there's not as well, especially like when she
first started. There's not new as many laws as there
should be even nowadays, like there's not great laws to
stop this from happening.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think we're getting better.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
We're going to get into that towards the end. But
another one of the chimps that they have is named Carrie,
and Tanya even said that this was one chimp she
wouldn't want to quote encounter. And this is also the
same chimp that managed to escape into town once and
was going up to people's cars trying to get in
and break into cars. Also on this podcast, I'm not
(19:28):
sure if you remember a few years back, we covered
a story about chimps escaping a facility in Missouri. Hi, Hello,
we're back.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
We have literally covered two stories lay to this already,
which I realized.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
And we had no idea that this was like the
same facility. So Travis, the chimpanzee, as we mentioned, ripped
off Charlie Nash's face very famously. His parents, Susie and Coco.
So Coco was Connie's first chimp, escaped her facility in
two thousand and one and were running at vehicles and
Connie's neighbors. Connie and another employee pulled up and tried
(19:58):
to tranquilize the chimps, but the female chimp, Travis's mom, Susie,
was charging at a neighbor named Jason Coates, and he
actually shot at Susie three times and ultimately killed her,
which we covered in that story.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Connie said that the chimps had escaped through an unlocked
door and that the chimp was tranquilized before it was shot,
claiming that like the situation was kind of under control
because she tranquilized it.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
How long does it take for chanklives take effect? A while?
Does it?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So that will We've talked about this before too, because
you remember Harambe Haramee was shot. When the child turn
in his closure, it's because tranquiss take a while to.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Kick in, and you shoot it with the dart, it's
gonna freak the fun out, exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's gonna freak out, so you don't know if it's
going to cause more damage. That's why he had to
be euthanized. Not his fault, so Jason said he saw Corney.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh no, I am I'm pro shooting Rambay in the head.
I've said this before, well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So Jason said that he just saw Connie stab the
chimp with a syringe, but like, obviously he had no
idea what was happening, and the chimp was charging at him,
so he felt that he had no other choice but
to protect himself and his He had a dog with him.
Oh wow, Yeah, that was trying to run towards the
chimps to be like what the hell is that?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Now there are things about this that are like kind
of like, why are you outside of your car with
your dog in a shotgun around? Well he was a neighbor, Yeah,
but why do you why are you outside of the shotgun?
Go inside your house? Because he had to go retrieve
the shotgun from somewhere, so like it's true, Yeah, but
I'm sure we covered that that story.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Well, so he did say like he was trying to
get to safety and when he went to a close
on the doors, the chimp, oh just missed grabbing it.
But his dog wouldn't listen to him. Oh so that's
why he was like I felt to yeah, yep, okay, however,
this is gonna make you incensed.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Jason was actually charged with felony destruction of property and
served thirty days in jail for killing Susie and missed
the birth of his first child serving his sentence.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Fucking way, yeah, pieces of shit. Yeah, she put she
pressed charges, Hang on to it, hang on Okay. So
what charges to Connie get for allowing her wild fucking
animal to escape. That's a great question. You know that
animal that was captured. Both of these, both of these
animals captured from the wild. Zero zero zero flug reperussions. Well,
just lend the walker. Let's get into the repercussions. Absolutely
(22:05):
fucking insane.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Although I do want to say in twenty twenty, there
were two more escapes, one where a neighbor found a
chimp in her living room. She just walked out her
living room, there's a chimp in there, and she managed
to scare it off. And then another instance, two chimps
escaped from an unlocked door on August ninth of twenty twenty.
Both chimps, a male and female, were tranquilized and brought back,
but it was reported as staff member quote suffered minor
(22:27):
injuries but refused medical treatment, which I think was Tanya.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Oh no shit.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah. So Angela, going back to the volunteer decided to
report Conye to PETA when Connie changed Chimp Party to
her nonprofit. But nothing about the facility changed, it's just
the name changed and the like quote unquote mission behind it.
So PETE sued Missouri Primate Foundation for being in violation
of the Endangered Species Act. So there's one piece of
(22:53):
legislation that might come in handy here. But it's worth
noting here though, that Tanya joined Connie after the lawsuit,
so like she knew things were going poorly and decided
to stay. Not only stay, but she wanted to make
the changes that PETA wanted. And she also asked Connie
to like sign the chimps to her so that the
(23:14):
lawsuit would go away if the chimps were no longer
quote unquote and Connie's possession. But PETA just added her
to the lawsuit in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, that's such a stupid idea, Like why the fuck
would they not consider the lawsuits their conditions are the same,
Like they're just going to change the name on the
fucking top of the paper.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, like clearly has no experience. Yeah, also has no Tanya,
no chimp experience, no z. Yeah, she was a nurse
before coming to Connie's. So she had never worked with
chimps or other animals in any sort of.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
She had been professional. At the time of filming, she
had been working with chimps for five years. Yeah, that's it. Yep,
that's fucking it. That's it.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So Tanya said to Connie around this time, quote, this
is America. These are your kids. The judicial system will
protect us, which are the famous last words.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Makes no sense, like kids screwed up in the head.
Do you have to be to think that you actually
have like illegal rights to these animals as a parent,
Like that is fucking insane. Yeah, and she meant it
like she means.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's also like saying like, oh, you can do whatever
you want to your kids. They're your kids.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
The system kit ticking way. It's like, well, yeah, they're
still fucking you could see exists.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, So Tanya claimed she put half a million dollars
into updating the facility. Pet says that she just like
put up some new hammocks and painted the walls and
floors like Neon colors.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So I'm not like totally hardcore against every single thing
about the sobject. They every really cool, like caged an
area that.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
The outdoor part looks pretty, but the.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Cages that they live in are just sad. Yeah, just sad.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well, they'll never be what they should be.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh no, exactly. Yeah that one place, oh my god. Yeah,
So did you ever look up where that was or
really want to know? I didn't. Well through that out.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, I'm sure it'll come up again. But so basically,
Tanya said that Peta never came back to the facility
to see their updates. But I honestly doubt that they
would ever allow Peter to even come back. I doubt
that they would invite Pete in correct.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Also, why would Peter be the ones checking up? But
it would be like fucking government or being a government ideal. Yeah. Yeah,
Like I don't like everything they say is like, oh
like Peter, this Peter. That's like, okay, I'm not a
pro pea guy, but like they're not really he made
some points. Yeah, I mean they're just suing you and
then the government's taking over the rest of this, aren't they.
Like from my understanding, I'm not a long guy. Yeah.
(25:26):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Tanya also is seen in this first episode many times
giving the chimps McDonald's and power raids is that.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
What they eat in the wild.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, they go foraging for McNuggets that are up in
the trees in Africa.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, for sure would they get over there.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So as a result of this lawsuit, Peta wanted the
chimps transferred to this awesome accredited facility that was like
literally just a few clusters of islands, so the chimps
were not in cages. They're just on islands with other
chimps with like natural enrichment for them.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah. I think this was somewhere in Georgia. But it
looked like amazing the fucking savannah.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Fear in your eyes, you said.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Hit that?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Sure, yeah, yeah Africa. They live in forest in Africa.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like the congo and shit. Yeah
yeah that was actually yeah yeah oh yeah it looked
like that.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I mean it didn't look exactly like that, but it
was close closer than her cages.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
In Missouri if you mix like Georgia in that.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah. So originally Peter didn't even want the chimps necessarily
taken away from Connie if Kanye and Tanya could make
the appropriate changes, but they never did.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Which, first of all, like Peter, that's unheard of, Like
usually their full bore, like fuck you, gimme all everything.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Also, I mean they're saying that to this documentary, it's
entirely possible.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm assuming absolutely push to get all the chimps out
of there and just lost the case and settled on
like improve or lose them.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Like well, I mean, okay, so let's get into it,
because they never made these changes in this episode. As
the lawsuit is resolved, Tanya was found in civil contempt
and all seven chimps were set to be transferred to
that facility we were just talking about, and Tanya was
supposed to be miles away from the property as the
chimps were seized. Afterwards, like after the court was resolved
(27:10):
and she went outside, she told a news crew that
she loved the chimps more than she loves her own children.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
How do you feel about that if you're one of
her kids?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Obviously awful?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, but like you know, your mom's crazy already, right,
Like you're probably like, yeah, she doesn't make it, she's gone.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
That doesn't make it any better.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And the fact that she's telling like a news.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Crew, oh yeah, no, that's fine. Now that's she's crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And now it's a documentary on HBO that your mom's
actively saying she doesn't love you as much as she
loves these animals. Yeah. Anyways, classically, Tanya blames PETA for
taking the chimps and says it's quote PETA's orders and
made Snyde comments that they wanted the chimps sent to
a professional facility. Once again, Tanya has zero experience and
fed them McDonald's and powered.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And they were lawyers or judge's orders.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, I know she's blaming PETO, but it's like Peta
is not the law. And she also said that all
of these PEDA lawsuits are quote cookie cutter cases, which
typically is how the law works.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah. Yeah, usually the laws set out, you hope, pretty
straight and easy to follow. That way, when you don't
follow it, they can say, hey, fuck you give us
the chimps.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Well yeah, like so she's saying, oh, Petera just keeps
doing the same thing over and over. It's like, well,
it seems like people keep abusing and neglecting animals and
they're using the same laws that they have to use
to prosecute those people.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah. Crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah. She also tried to blame some of the chimp
escapes on Pita and said that, like people from PETA
came and release the.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Chimps, which has happened before.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Of course, you also noted as we're watching the documentary,
they like there was one point where they showed clips
of PEDA protesters dumping manure in front of like I
think a circus.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right, it was like in front of town hall or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, and you were like, where'd they get the manure? Yeah,
that's a great point. I mean they could spin, you know,
on the ground somewhere hanging out. Had to go a
farm for that, insane dude, Yeah, I did, I don't.
This is the this is not appropriate.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And you know what, both Peta and Tanya and Connie
are clearly like want what's best for animals, but they
go about it and completely different. Correct, they are both
extremists on opposite sides. Correct kind of Well, I guess
opposite of Pete would be like hunting, but you yeah, yeah,
in this case.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
So the seizure and move of the chimps was facilitated
by the US Marshals and local law enforcement, and the
film crew before the move set up secret cameras in
the property to watch the removal of the chimps, which
begs the question like why were there no you had
this many chimp escapes? Why were there no cameras in
the facility before?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Now you point that out. The first time we watched,
I was like Jesus Christ, right, like, yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Why there are no cameras?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We know why because there's probably wasn't anything you want recorded.
Oh that's true.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, even only on the answer. You think it'd be
like a blink camera or something to even like notify
you that there's a chimp run around.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So do you know, like how this business making money
to support these chimps, like just donations.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Or it must be yeah, because they were nonprofit.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, I mean they're not. She's not like taking pimping
out the chimps anymore. So yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh she only had seven left.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
She only had seven left. And they're eating like in
the episode, they're eating good food, like they're eating qualt
while McDonald's not fat, but the stuff that they would
actually give them, the fruit and like the meats, like
it looks like it's all fresh, looks good, Like that
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Part of the PA lawsuit is that they were being
given like donation slash like scraps of expired food from
like Walmart, which.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I personally don't think give a shit about it, Like
they're the live like they're fucking chimpanzees. Yeah, you're giving
them McDonald's still, like they can live off of a
fucking expired tomato.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, like I guess, but I think that's also
kind of like harkens back to Tiger King where Joe
Exotic was just taking like expired like hamburg from Walmart
and giving that to like wolves and stuff. Well that's
not you know what I mean, right, And of course,
like towards the end, as the chymps are being taken
away and they're like having the last night with the chimps, like,
of course we feel empathy for Connie and Tanya for
(31:07):
having animals that they love taken away from them, that
they raised for like thirty plus years.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah. I will never deny that, Like these women really
loved their animals. Yeah, I just don't think they were
necessarily doing the things they needed to to give them
the best life they could. Yeah, And which, first of all,
if you own a chimp, you're not giving it the
best life you can.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So plucking it from the wild probably not the best
correct And like also, to be fair, saying that you
love something or someone like doesn't mean you could do
whatever you want to them and that whatever you're doing
is right.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Plenty of people love something you let it go.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, Well, plenty of people claim to love other people
and then treat them like shit. So if you love something,
you still need to back it up by treating them
correctly and treating the thing correctly. So these gymps were
not treated the way that they should be or kept
in good conditions. I personally don't think that you could
say that you love something like that and keep it
in a cage for a year and a half, correct,
and not let it see the sun.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So even once the chimps were gone, we like through
those hidden cameras can see Connie sit down and just sigh.
And to me, it looked like she was like a
little relieved that this was over.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
It seemed like a weight was off her shoulders. Like,
for sure, she didn't look happy about it, but it
was just kind of like it's done. It just seemed
like a finale for it. She's like, yeah, this part
of my life is over. Yeah, and it's kind of
a weird moment because if you can it is like
real for her, Like, yeah, what does she do next?
You guys, like you can feel that in it? Well,
it's I don't know, it's it's it's an odd feeling.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Well, what happens next? Is that not all the chimps
were taken because when officials came, Tanka was missing. No way,
all right, well that is our coverage of the first episode.
(32:52):
I'm assuming guys it's probably Tanya. We haven't watched episode two,
but like, there's no way it wasn't Tanya that took Tanka.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
If you have Max, I suggest you watch it. But
it is wild. It is not a good watch. It
is a hate watch.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Like, yeah, you watch it to be angry. Yeah, Like
the quality of the documentary great, yeah, but like the
content makes you mad.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, I feel like really shitty reality TV. You'll love it, oh,
yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And I love the people who have sent me messages
like thank you for watching this so I don't have
to You're welcome, and also all of you who recommended
we watch this. We're mad.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I'm looking forward to the fourth episode of this that
we do so we like recap all of it all together. Yeah,
I think we're really going to come around and there's
gonna be some some connections made you.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Think we're gonna come around to like like how well,
I think that we'll get into the Travis stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think it'll get into like a lot of the
other I think it's going to get into a lot
of it.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
If they don't cover Travis, that'd be crazy.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I mean there's still three more episodes. They've already taken
the chimps and there's three more episodes, so it is yeah, well,
I mean, what the fuck is going to happen?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
One the chimps is missing, which begs the question was
that for the sake of this documentary or would that
have happened whether or not the film crew is there,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So I don't I don't know. Yeah, it's it's hard
to say because they put the fucking cameras up there.
Like it's the people who did Tiger King, which was
they kind of went off the original and.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Way from the Tigers and towards the.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Murder correct, So like now it's what kind of case
can we make for this show. It's a little bit weird.
It's a little bit odd.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
So we'll see where it goes from here. But like
we said, so, we don't want to clog our feed
with just covering this documentary, so the other episodes will
be available on Ptreon if you're still interested and want
to listen along as we watch this. If you don't
want to watch it and want us to do it
and tell you about how terrible it is, we'll do that.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
When are we gonna do it, We don't quite know,
but we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
We'll get to it, i'd say, like we've been doing
like every week.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
We helly, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah cool, yep, you'll see it on there nice all right,
and we'll be back in two weeks with like another
more regular episode. But for now you can find all
of our social medias in the episode description. Thank you
again so much Josh Walls for making our intro music
and Jesse his brother, for editing everything. This one was
a little bit of a doozy because our recorder cut
just died in the middle.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
It was very funny. I always made like a second
recording just for that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, anyways, and then yeah, check out our website. Get
ali podcast dot com for merch and other things. I
don't know what else I usually say at the end
of these. It's been a hot minute, but I appreciate
you all for hanging in there and being patient and
saying nice things.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah for me again. Oh hey, keep thanks to a
minimum please.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Well, it's nicer to do it with a friend.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I didn't mean your hate mail.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Meant the people saying oh yeah, okay, I'll stop emailing
you mean things.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You just texted them, you'd say something. It's fine, We're
used to this. You can't hurt my feelings anymore. Don't try.
Don't try to shut up. Only back in.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Two weeks with more animal attack stories.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Bye.
Hi, everyone, Welcome back to Get Out Alive. Thank you
all for being so patient as I took a break
to get married, and thank you all so much for
sending congratulations and kind words. And I just wanted to
wait a bit to come back because I wanted to
refresh the podcast. So we've got some great guests coming up,
including a literal dream guest that I never thought I
(00:37):
would ever get a chance to talk to. All Right,
way to come in before, I was gonna give you
a cute fine Nick's here.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hi, I'm Nick. Those I'm the man, You're.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
The man of this operation. I'm the woman. So I
wanted to get back, like the first few episodes, back
into more like classic Get Out of Live episodes on
a T I guess this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Isn't very not super classic.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Traditional of ours, but also in a way, it's within
the lines, it's in the realm. We talked about people
getting messed up by something that we both mutually hate
the famously.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hate them, chimps chimpanzees.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
So today we are beginning our coverage of the HBO
documentary chim Crazy. Per so many of your recommendations, I
had no idea what this was. So many of you
asked us to cover it, though I can't even cite
one person because so many of you have asked to
hear our opinions and we have.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
A lot of them, and I did not have any
requests coming to me, So I knew nothing about this before.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Don't give out any social media No.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, that's good. Yeah, I'm not complaining. No, I'm saying
like I went in like blind blind.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I tried to purposely not know anything about this before
we watch because I just knew it was chim crazy.
And then a picture of a lady with a lot
of plastic surgery and a chimp. But I was like,
this can't be good, and it's good so far, We're right.
It's not well, it's awesome, it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It's really good, but also not good horrible.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah. So before we start reviewing the documentary, as is
the Newish tradition, we're going to read a review as
a thank you to all of you who take a
moment to leave us a five star review on Apple
Podcasts or podchaser Nick.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
This episode's review is from Apple Podcasts from September twenty first,
twenty twenty four from Jersey Girl in Vermont. She wrote,
just found this podcast and I'm really enjoying it. Well,
thank you, Jersey Girl. I appreciate that. Thank you. I
know we have a lot of big fans out there.
I am kind of a big deal, you know. I
had to take some time off to Papa Roster's coming
after me. But I just know that the sports out
(02:32):
there is really nice. Didn't miss me.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
A lot of people have been asking for you, so yeah, they're.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Going to get the full fill today. No, I'm on
that app all right, subscribed, not off the street. It's important.
It actually two been three months together. Was paying the ass.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Also, as I teased on our Instagram, we have new
merch with our new logos. We've got a unisex T
shirt and a unisex crew neck. I've got a small
in the crew neck which I'm currently wearing. If fits
me perfectly. I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, I have a double excel.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I bought I well because it was U and sex.
I wasn't sure if the T shirt was going to
be small or big. I've been losing weight, okay, well,
so the T shirt's good point are a little big.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
They run a little big, little bit, just a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So if you think that you're between two sizes, order
the smaller one probably yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I mean it's kind of hard to say, like
that double ex cell is big, so I can't even
recommend like I'm usually an excel Like I'm usually like
I need like a long large really, but I like
using an excel. I have no idea short as well. Yeah,
and I got a long to ourself. I got no
idea what kind of sizing it's it's gonna be for men,
no clue.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So recording this around my dogs is tough when one
of them starts chewing a phone as soon as we
start recording. So if you hear crunching, that's what that is.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, this is back to the classic geos, so we're.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Good, well classic geo.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
That's pretty smooth with it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Also, thank you to everyone on Patreon who gave their
input on what colors that we should make available for
the T shirts and crens.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What one? I mean there's a lot of colors. Oh,
I mean, I'm assuming that they voted on it, right.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Well kind of Yeah, people mostly wanted like orange and
also green. I'm gonna mess around with the green. So
by the time this comes out, they'll probably be Green.
So this docuseries is called Chimp Crazy. It's on HBO
Max and it's directed by Eric Good, who is the
same guy that directed Tiger King, and that comes through
for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah. Oh, big time, big time, good storyteller.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Honestly, the music is great, the colors are great. The
way that he like cuts obviously it's not just him,
it's like a whole team of producers and stuff. But
the way that they cut between things is also like
expertly done.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Has to be like, the editing team has to be
the exact same people because they're really good at making
you feel like you discovered stuff when really there's like
setting up for you.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Then they get it almost like an investigory, investigatory thing.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, so investigatory.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah yeah, but then they say like like like like
sneak stuff in where it's like, oh, you'll notice this
that I was telling you. It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah. We also watched it twice and it was really
nice watching it the second time.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh my god, the drama we've made connections. Oh god,
that drama.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Get into it. So we're going to cover this episode
by episode. This is episode one of the documentary and
we are going to release the other episodes on Patreon.
Hell yeah, so episode one is titled monkey Love, which
(05:12):
we already have a problem with considering that chimps are
the lnkeys. Oh yeah, no, oh well that too.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That's well, yeah, there's a lot of well not a lot,
but there's some beasts there.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
There's like some weird yeah, so I guess just a
warning for that.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
We start by seeing a woman who we later find
out is Tanya Haddocks, and she is describing how when
you adopt a monkey, the bond that you feel with
them is more deep than if you were to give
birth to a human child, continuing on to say, because quote,
chimps don't grow up and join a community like human children.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, so they're totally dependent on you and only you,
and you have to take care of them forever, which
is any pet. But also yeah, but if you know,
pets live for forty years, sixty.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Years, yeah, around forty years.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I was on an animal podcast like two years. I
have no idea.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Well that shocks no one.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That has been so true, so true.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
But also if you know anything about chimps, you know
that they literally grow up to be in a community.
But yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh my god, she's an idiot.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, well that and many other reasons. But Tanya also
describes herself as the quote Dolly Parton of chimps.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
If you see one photo, you don't know why.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, a lot of classic surgery.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's like it's really interesting because like
they kind of show like snippets of her throughout the years,
and she changes a lot. Yeah she does. It's creepy.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So she's also seen at the beginning with a like,
as she's talking about this, with a small black baby
monkey that you cannot convince me is not Ai.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It looks really weird. Yeah, but I think it's the
same monkey is on her lap for a lot of
the interviews.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, it just it does not look real to me.
So she also says that chimps are better than owning
capuchin monkeys, So like the smaller monkeys that I would
say typically more people probably have because they're more easily manageable,
because you can quote shape chimps into you.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I know, no you cannot.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So we're gonna get back to Tanya in a bit,
but for now, let's move on to another character in
this documentary. So we then go on to meet Pam
rose Are, who said at seven years old, she decided
she wanted to be the world's most famous chimp trainer.
And she also came from a family of circus people,
so it like, I guess that was a reasonable goal
for her to have at all time.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It just like into it.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, and as the recording of this series, she is
still training chimps and performing. She also said chimps have
ninety eight point four percent human DNA?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Which I of course had to look up. I mean,
the way that she worded it, it's like, well, it
came through the same common ancestors. I mean that they
have our DNA. But I found an article from twenty
twenty three that said that statistic of us sharing that
much DNA with chimps is from a two thousand and
five study. As you can imagine, science has progressed. Yeah,
and the study was a single protein to protein comparison
(07:50):
before the chimp genome was fully sequenced.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Oh no, shit, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So a twenty eighteen study performed by an evolutionary geneticist
did a one to one analysis of human chimp nucleotides
and said, quote, the percentage of nucleotides and the human
genome that had one to one exact matches and the
chimp genome was eighty four point three eight percent. Still
still a lot, but not as much. No, but other
studies have since claim that we share some percentage between
(08:16):
like the eighties and the nineties range of similarity. But
it all depends on what method of sequencing that you're using.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Also, the point of this is, although we may share
a lot of DNA with chimps, we also share roughly
sixty percent of DNA with bananas. Yeah, and it's not
that like we are sixty percent banana and bananas are
sixty percent people. It's the quantity of shared DNA isn't important.
It's the quality of the DNA that is shared. So
(08:44):
there's a reason that we're talking on a podcast and
that chimps don't have their own podcast, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Do they not? I bet there's a chimp podcasts out there. Yeah,
but like well they said, I mean, it's all sign language,
so it's a little Yeah, it doesn't get all listeners.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
That's called the video. Well, so anyways, Pam somehow got
a hold of a prematurely born chimp. No idea if
she was breeding them or what. But she said that
chimp wasn't doing well and chimps can't process baby formula.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
No, they cannot.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And thankfully for this chimp, Pam had just given birth
to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So there's only one way this is gonna go.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, we paused it soon she said that, and I
was like, oh my god, yep, please tell me this
is not about to happen.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
The secrets of events that happened with us the first
time we watched that crazy well it was.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It was very funny on our Instagram if you follow
us and saw that story, it was us in real
time realizing what was about to happen. What happened was
Pam started breastfeeding this chimp while also breastfeeding her child.
So two boobs, a chimp on one, her human baby
on the other, and.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Her husband just standing there like wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That was the expertly cut moment where it cut to
her husband. He went, yeah, so said, I think you said
a quote like I walked in she had a chimp
on one booby and a baby on the other.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah. The word yes, go booby was a picture of boobs.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, it was shocking.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Also that's a really good point. I should have looked
this up before we recorded, but I thought there was
something out there about like chimps having fascination with like
human breasts. And there's a picture of Pam topless in
the documentary surrounded by like four or five chimps.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I mean, isn't it like, I don't I don't know this.
It isn't like a thing where they tear each those
gentles off, like when they're fighting for mates.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's what I mean. Yeah, like they're known to tear
also when they attack humans like that. Oh god, Yeah,
so that seems so insane. I mean obviously she's raising
and training them, so she thinks, yeah whatever. Yeah, she
didn't have her breast ripped off ever, so clearly she
was like it was fine. But I just that's a.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
That was a choice. It was absolutely wild start to
this documentary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Also, like baby bottles apparently don't need them.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That's kind of what I was thinking, to can pump
and feed with that, Like I feel like that'd be
a little safer and healthier. Yep, for the you know,
what is the like quality of human breast book compared
to like chimp breasts?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, so upon your request of asking this before we recorded,
I found a study from twenty sixteen titled Immunoglobin A
and Nutrients and Milk from Great Apes throughout lactation and
Long story, short quote, differences between human and ape milk
may lie more in bioactive slash immune molecules than nutrients,
which basically means, like nutrition wise, it's more or less
(11:30):
similar enough that it could pass between and like you
could still grow up healthily. Yeah, but the immune health
benefits that you get from your mother's milk is different
between a chimp and a human, Yes, because we are
fighting different diseases.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, okay, so that's the main.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Difference I think is that you're not getting the same
like immune.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Boost from it. Also seems weird to me. I imagine diet,
like the mother's diet is very important as to what
nutrients the baby's gonna get. Yeah, of course, Well, obviously
a human is not eating the same foods. Well this
show anyway, like they shouldn't be eating the same foods,
Like there's no way that she's giving the right nutrients
these Oh no, we never learn the chimp's name. We
(12:09):
never learn if the chimp is survives, it's yeah, Orginal,
I mean it was you know, born early, Like it's
not her fault, but like we never learned what happens
with this.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
This check so this chimp that was breatfed.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, I mean they could have gone poortably wrong and
they just didn't acknowledge it. Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
So moving on from that, that's kinda last we hear
from Pam in this episode.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I don't know if she's gonna which is okay, she
just kind of introduces us to.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
How insane this world is. But yeah, so she Like
the most important bit of information that Pam gives us,
other than the fact that she breastfettered chimp, is that
someone named Connie Casey was responsible for seventy five percent
of the captive population of chimps in America, which.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Is absolutely fucking insane.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, according to the people in this film.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yes, yeah, we did not fact check that at all.
I don't know how we would even be able to
do that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah. So I don't know, because we literally only watched
episode one so far. I'm not sure if they cover
it in future episodes. But if you're a longtime listener
of this podcast or you've just like listened to earlier episodes.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Travis.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Travis the Chimpanzee, one of our most listen to episodes,
famously ripped off the face of Charlie Nash and Connecticut,
was born and bred in this facility.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The very first chimpanzee that that woman had. What's his dad? Yeah,
that's wild.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
We'll get there in a second.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thing wild. I'm sorry, I jump ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Well, yeah, but it's okay. So, as of the filming
of this, Connie is the owner of Missouri Primate Foundation
in Festus, Missouri. However, Connie is a very closed off person.
You can probably imagine why.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So the director hired a fake proxy director who made
contact in July twenty twenty one with Tanya, the woman
I mentioned up.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Top, and this director of the documentary. You're not director
of Flake the Establishment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Correct, Yeah, the director hired a fake director because the
director tried to get in contact with Connie and she
was like absolutely not. So she's like, oh, I'll just
hire this new guy that she doesn't know the face
of and lie.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So let's just acknowledge that right away. Like, that's a
little fucked up. But I don't love that. That seems
like shady journalist.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, it does to me too. Also, this proxy director
is Dwayne Cunningham, who was a felon up. No, they
said in the documentary, Wow, I miss that he's a
fellon from smuggling wildlife.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Oh shit, did I miss that?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
How much wildlife you have to smuggle to become a felon?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
We watched this episode three times? Did I missed that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Well clearly don't.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Wow, I'm assume one wildlife. Wait I think.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
No, he smuggled like a ton of reptiles. So Tany
was originally a nurse and after her kids left her house,
she did a meet. She was like searching for I guess,
like connection, I don't know. And she did a meet
and great experience with a chimp at Connie's and said
it was the happiest she's ever been. So she moved
on to Connie's property as a volunteer to help her.
(14:54):
So Tanya said she loves working with them because quote,
they never break your heart and don't grow up to
get a mind of their which is barely even true
for a domesticated animal, let alone a chimp.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
No, just like even just to point that out as
a positive of having these things during life, it's so
crazy to me. Yeah, it's so crazy to me.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, and I like, don't get me wrong, Like I
completely understand having passion for animals, but to say you've
literally never been happy otherwise is crazy and definitely warrants
like at least a therapy session.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Or but like I don't have any pets on my own,
but like I want a dog who's going to be
like an independent breed and like be able to have
their own life and have their own thoughts and like
have their own personality. I don't want them on my
favorite personally any animal. Yeah, I can deal with two
of me. That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And you know I understand, Like, you know, like my dogs,
for example, they're pretty chill and like when I want
to do stuff, they're like, yeah, sure we'll do stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
But they have their own personalities.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, exactly, they do their own thing. Yeah, all right.
So Connie got her first baby chimp quote wild caught
from Africa, which means plucked out of the wild. And
this first chimp was Coco, and from here she started
breeding them and selling them off. And also when people
(16:04):
would buy chimps from her or just I guess have
chimps from anyone else, And when the chimps grew up
to become too much to handle, as is expected with
a chimp, they would dump them back at Connie's place.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
What else are you gonna do with it? The first
of all, don't buy the fucking chimpanzee. Well what do
you do with a chimp once it's full grown? You
can't handle it?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, similar to us owning an alliator. There was not
a lot of foresight into what we were doing within
the future.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah. No.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Once again, if you've been along, I'm not gonna go
into that story. But uh, I've had some things.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So go check out the rivers in New Hampshire, Dad,
stop it.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So before opening the nonprofit now known as Missouri Primate Foundation,
Connie and her husband owned the company Chimp Party, where
you could pay to have a chimp come to your event.
And this is how they made a lot of their money,
aside from the chimps that were on greeting cards or
in movies or commercials. And they said this was a
venture so that they could raise more money for better
enclosures for their chimps. But at one time Connie's facility
(17:01):
they had over forty chimps oh my god. One of
their chimps named Tonka was in movies like George of
the Jungle and Babe two, but as of the filming
of this first episode, he's been stuck inside his cage
for over a year, like inside because he had a stroke.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
That's so nuts to me, Like you can't bring him
out for enrichment or anything. It tame for a walk exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So in two thousand and one, Angela Scott, a woman
who's like pretty prominent in this first episode, started as
a volunteer with Connie, but she quickly started to realize
things were not as they seemed. For example, Connie's husband
Mike is seen in the documentary explaining that a chimp
quote didn't know what he was doing when he grabbed
a toddler's foot at an event. But as Mike is
saying this, there's clearly been major trauma to his face
(17:45):
that Nick and I clocked immediately and we were like,
there's no way that this was not from a chimpanzee.
And come to find out, it's because one day Mike
went into a chimp named Bo's cage, which you see
a picture of Bo very young at the beginning of
the episode, and Bow ran up to him and bit
his nose off, and Connie had to go in and
retrieve his nose to be reattached.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What a wild they have to go do? Yeah, take
up your husband's nose. Ye, and like he had a
scarf from like above one of his eyebrows diagonally across
his face down to the other cheek, and his nose
was just like.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You could tell gone.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
A few years later, Angela noted that Bow quote died
of natural causes, even though he was a young chimp
at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's what kind of that's what causes.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Those Yeah, Well similar to Tiger King where.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
They're like, oh they just died, got it? Yeah, I
gotta get a troublesome animal. Well, I just you know,
went to the farm.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
So.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Angela also reported that chimps not being used in these
parties would just sit inside and do nothing all day,
and one journalist likened Connie's operation to a puppy mill
for chimpanzees.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That sucks, I mean, that's just insane. I mean, how
how is that legal? I don't I don't think it
is anymore, but like, how the fuck was.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I mean, there's not as well, especially like when she
first started. There's not new as many laws as there
should be even nowadays, like there's not great laws to
stop this from happening.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think we're getting better.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
We're going to get into that towards the end. But
another one of the chimps that they have is named Carrie,
and Tanya even said that this was one chimp she
wouldn't want to quote encounter. And this is also the
same chimp that managed to escape into town once and
was going up to people's cars trying to get in
and break into cars. Also on this podcast, I'm not
(19:28):
sure if you remember a few years back, we covered
a story about chimps escaping a facility in Missouri. Hi, Hello,
we're back.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
We have literally covered two stories lay to this already,
which I realized.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
And we had no idea that this was like the
same facility. So Travis, the chimpanzee, as we mentioned, ripped
off Charlie Nash's face very famously. His parents, Susie and Coco.
So Coco was Connie's first chimp, escaped her facility in
two thousand and one and were running at vehicles and
Connie's neighbors. Connie and another employee pulled up and tried
(19:58):
to tranquilize the chimps, but the female chimp, Travis's mom, Susie,
was charging at a neighbor named Jason Coates, and he
actually shot at Susie three times and ultimately killed her,
which we covered in that story.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Connie said that the chimps had escaped through an unlocked
door and that the chimp was tranquilized before it was shot,
claiming that like the situation was kind of under control
because she tranquilized it.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
How long does it take for chanklives take effect? A while?
Does it?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So that will We've talked about this before too, because
you remember Harambe Haramee was shot. When the child turn
in his closure, it's because tranquiss take a while to.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Kick in, and you shoot it with the dart, it's
gonna freak the fun out, exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's gonna freak out, so you don't know if it's
going to cause more damage. That's why he had to
be euthanized. Not his fault, so Jason said he saw Corney.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh no, I am I'm pro shooting Rambay in the head.
I've said this before, well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So Jason said that he just saw Connie stab the
chimp with a syringe, but like, obviously he had no
idea what was happening, and the chimp was charging at him,
so he felt that he had no other choice but
to protect himself and his He had a dog with him.
Oh wow, Yeah, that was trying to run towards the
chimps to be like what the hell is that?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Now there are things about this that are like kind
of like, why are you outside of your car with
your dog in a shotgun around? Well he was a neighbor, Yeah,
but why do you why are you outside of the shotgun?
Go inside your house? Because he had to go retrieve
the shotgun from somewhere, so like it's true, Yeah, but
I'm sure we covered that that story.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Well, so he did say like he was trying to
get to safety and when he went to a close
on the doors, the chimp, oh just missed grabbing it.
But his dog wouldn't listen to him. Oh so that's
why he was like I felt to yeah, yep, okay, however,
this is gonna make you incensed.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Jason was actually charged with felony destruction of property and
served thirty days in jail for killing Susie and missed
the birth of his first child serving his sentence.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Fucking way, yeah, pieces of shit. Yeah, she put she
pressed charges, Hang on to it, hang on Okay. So
what charges to Connie get for allowing her wild fucking
animal to escape. That's a great question. You know that
animal that was captured. Both of these, both of these
animals captured from the wild. Zero zero zero flug reperussions. Well,
just lend the walker. Let's get into the repercussions. Absolutely
(22:05):
fucking insane.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Although I do want to say in twenty twenty, there
were two more escapes, one where a neighbor found a
chimp in her living room. She just walked out her
living room, there's a chimp in there, and she managed
to scare it off. And then another instance, two chimps
escaped from an unlocked door on August ninth of twenty twenty.
Both chimps, a male and female, were tranquilized and brought back,
but it was reported as staff member quote suffered minor
(22:27):
injuries but refused medical treatment, which I think was Tanya.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Oh no shit.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah. So Angela, going back to the volunteer decided to
report Conye to PETA when Connie changed Chimp Party to
her nonprofit. But nothing about the facility changed, it's just
the name changed and the like quote unquote mission behind it.
So PETE sued Missouri Primate Foundation for being in violation
of the Endangered Species Act. So there's one piece of
(22:53):
legislation that might come in handy here. But it's worth
noting here though, that Tanya joined Connie after the lawsuit,
so like she knew things were going poorly and decided
to stay. Not only stay, but she wanted to make
the changes that PETA wanted. And she also asked Connie
to like sign the chimps to her so that the
(23:14):
lawsuit would go away if the chimps were no longer
quote unquote and Connie's possession. But PETA just added her
to the lawsuit in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, that's such a stupid idea, Like why the fuck
would they not consider the lawsuits their conditions are the same,
Like they're just going to change the name on the
fucking top of the paper.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, like clearly has no experience. Yeah, also has no Tanya,
no chimp experience, no z. Yeah, she was a nurse
before coming to Connie's. So she had never worked with
chimps or other animals in any sort of.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
She had been professional. At the time of filming, she
had been working with chimps for five years. Yeah, that's it. Yep,
that's fucking it. That's it.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So Tanya said to Connie around this time, quote, this
is America. These are your kids. The judicial system will
protect us, which are the famous last words.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Makes no sense, like kids screwed up in the head.
Do you have to be to think that you actually
have like illegal rights to these animals as a parent,
Like that is fucking insane. Yeah, and she meant it
like she means.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's also like saying like, oh, you can do whatever
you want to your kids. They're your kids.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
The system kit ticking way. It's like, well, yeah, they're
still fucking you could see exists.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, So Tanya claimed she put half a million dollars
into updating the facility. Pet says that she just like
put up some new hammocks and painted the walls and
floors like Neon colors.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So I'm not like totally hardcore against every single thing
about the sobject. They every really cool, like caged an
area that.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
The outdoor part looks pretty, but the.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Cages that they live in are just sad. Yeah, just sad.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well, they'll never be what they should be.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh no, exactly. Yeah that one place, oh my god. Yeah,
So did you ever look up where that was or
really want to know? I didn't. Well through that out.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, I'm sure it'll come up again. But so basically,
Tanya said that Peta never came back to the facility
to see their updates. But I honestly doubt that they
would ever allow Peter to even come back. I doubt
that they would invite Pete in correct.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Also, why would Peter be the ones checking up? But
it would be like fucking government or being a government ideal. Yeah. Yeah,
Like I don't like everything they say is like, oh
like Peter, this Peter. That's like, okay, I'm not a
pro pea guy, but like they're not really he made
some points. Yeah, I mean they're just suing you and
then the government's taking over the rest of this, aren't they.
Like from my understanding, I'm not a long guy. Yeah.
(25:26):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Tanya also is seen in this first episode many times
giving the chimps McDonald's and power raids is that.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
What they eat in the wild.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, they go foraging for McNuggets that are up in
the trees in Africa.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, for sure would they get over there.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So as a result of this lawsuit, Peta wanted the
chimps transferred to this awesome accredited facility that was like
literally just a few clusters of islands, so the chimps
were not in cages. They're just on islands with other
chimps with like natural enrichment for them.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah. I think this was somewhere in Georgia. But it
looked like amazing the fucking savannah.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Fear in your eyes, you said.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Hit that?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Sure, yeah, yeah Africa. They live in forest in Africa.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like the congo and shit. Yeah
yeah that was actually yeah yeah oh yeah it looked
like that.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I mean it didn't look exactly like that, but it
was close closer than her cages.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
In Missouri if you mix like Georgia in that.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah. So originally Peter didn't even want the chimps necessarily
taken away from Connie if Kanye and Tanya could make
the appropriate changes, but they never did.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Which, first of all, like Peter, that's unheard of, Like
usually their full bore, like fuck you, gimme all everything.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Also, I mean they're saying that to this documentary, it's
entirely possible.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm assuming absolutely push to get all the chimps out
of there and just lost the case and settled on
like improve or lose them.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Like well, I mean, okay, so let's get into it,
because they never made these changes in this episode. As
the lawsuit is resolved, Tanya was found in civil contempt
and all seven chimps were set to be transferred to
that facility we were just talking about, and Tanya was
supposed to be miles away from the property as the
chimps were seized. Afterwards, like after the court was resolved
(27:10):
and she went outside, she told a news crew that
she loved the chimps more than she loves her own children.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
How do you feel about that if you're one of
her kids?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Obviously awful?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, but like you know, your mom's crazy already, right,
Like you're probably like, yeah, she doesn't make it, she's gone.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
That doesn't make it any better.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And the fact that she's telling like a news.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Crew, oh yeah, no, that's fine. Now that's she's crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And now it's a documentary on HBO that your mom's
actively saying she doesn't love you as much as she
loves these animals. Yeah. Anyways, classically, Tanya blames PETA for
taking the chimps and says it's quote PETA's orders and
made Snyde comments that they wanted the chimps sent to
a professional facility. Once again, Tanya has zero experience and
fed them McDonald's and powered.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And they were lawyers or judge's orders.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, I know she's blaming PETO, but it's like Peta
is not the law. And she also said that all
of these PEDA lawsuits are quote cookie cutter cases, which
typically is how the law works.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah. Yeah, usually the laws set out, you hope, pretty
straight and easy to follow. That way, when you don't
follow it, they can say, hey, fuck you give us
the chimps.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Well yeah, like so she's saying, oh, Petera just keeps
doing the same thing over and over. It's like, well,
it seems like people keep abusing and neglecting animals and
they're using the same laws that they have to use
to prosecute those people.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah. Crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah. She also tried to blame some of the chimp
escapes on Pita and said that, like people from PETA
came and release the.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Chimps, which has happened before.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Of course, you also noted as we're watching the documentary,
they like there was one point where they showed clips
of PEDA protesters dumping manure in front of like I
think a circus.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Right, it was like in front of town hall or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, and you were like, where'd they get the manure? Yeah,
that's a great point. I mean they could spin, you know,
on the ground somewhere hanging out. Had to go a
farm for that, insane dude, Yeah, I did, I don't.
This is the this is not appropriate.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And you know what, both Peta and Tanya and Connie
are clearly like want what's best for animals, but they
go about it and completely different. Correct, they are both
extremists on opposite sides. Correct kind of Well, I guess
opposite of Pete would be like hunting, but you yeah, yeah,
in this case.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
So the seizure and move of the chimps was facilitated
by the US Marshals and local law enforcement, and the
film crew before the move set up secret cameras in
the property to watch the removal of the chimps, which
begs the question like why were there no you had
this many chimp escapes? Why were there no cameras in
the facility before?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Now you point that out. The first time we watched,
I was like Jesus Christ, right, like, yeah, what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Why there are no cameras?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We know why because there's probably wasn't anything you want recorded.
Oh that's true.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, even only on the answer. You think it'd be
like a blink camera or something to even like notify
you that there's a chimp run around.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So do you know, like how this business making money
to support these chimps, like just donations.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Or it must be yeah, because they were nonprofit.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, I mean they're not. She's not like taking pimping
out the chimps anymore. So yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh she only had seven left.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
She only had seven left. And they're eating like in
the episode, they're eating good food, like they're eating qualt
while McDonald's not fat, but the stuff that they would
actually give them, the fruit and like the meats, like
it looks like it's all fresh, looks good, Like that
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Part of the PA lawsuit is that they were being
given like donation slash like scraps of expired food from
like Walmart, which.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I personally don't think give a shit about it, Like
they're the live like they're fucking chimpanzees. Yeah, you're giving
them McDonald's still, like they can live off of a
fucking expired tomato.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, like I guess, but I think that's also
kind of like harkens back to Tiger King where Joe
Exotic was just taking like expired like hamburg from Walmart
and giving that to like wolves and stuff. Well that's
not you know what I mean, right, And of course,
like towards the end, as the chymps are being taken
away and they're like having the last night with the chimps, like,
of course we feel empathy for Connie and Tanya for
(31:07):
having animals that they love taken away from them, that
they raised for like thirty plus years.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah. I will never deny that, Like these women really
loved their animals. Yeah, I just don't think they were
necessarily doing the things they needed to to give them
the best life they could. Yeah, And which, first of all,
if you own a chimp, you're not giving it the
best life you can.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
So plucking it from the wild probably not the best
correct And like also, to be fair, saying that you
love something or someone like doesn't mean you could do
whatever you want to them and that whatever you're doing
is right.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Plenty of people love something you let it go.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, Well, plenty of people claim to love other people
and then treat them like shit. So if you love something,
you still need to back it up by treating them
correctly and treating the thing correctly. So these gymps were
not treated the way that they should be or kept
in good conditions. I personally don't think that you could
say that you love something like that and keep it
in a cage for a year and a half, correct,
and not let it see the sun.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
So even once the chimps were gone, we like through
those hidden cameras can see Connie sit down and just sigh.
And to me, it looked like she was like a
little relieved that this was over.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
It seemed like a weight was off her shoulders. Like,
for sure, she didn't look happy about it, but it
was just kind of like it's done. It just seemed
like a finale for it. She's like, yeah, this part
of my life is over. Yeah, and it's kind of
a weird moment because if you can it is like
real for her, Like, yeah, what does she do next?
You guys, like you can feel that in it? Well,
it's I don't know, it's it's it's an odd feeling.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Well, what happens next? Is that not all the chimps
were taken because when officials came, Tanka was missing. No way,
all right, well that is our coverage of the first episode.
(32:52):
I'm assuming guys it's probably Tanya. We haven't watched episode two,
but like, there's no way it wasn't Tanya that took Tanka.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
If you have Max, I suggest you watch it. But
it is wild. It is not a good watch. It
is a hate watch.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Like, yeah, you watch it to be angry. Yeah, Like
the quality of the documentary great, yeah, but like the
content makes you mad.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, I feel like really shitty reality TV. You'll love it, oh,
yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And I love the people who have sent me messages
like thank you for watching this so I don't have
to You're welcome, and also all of you who recommended
we watch this. We're mad.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I'm looking forward to the fourth episode of this that
we do so we like recap all of it all together. Yeah,
I think we're really going to come around and there's
gonna be some some connections made you.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Think we're gonna come around to like like how well,
I think that we'll get into the Travis stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think it'll get into like a lot of the
other I think it's going to get into a lot
of it.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
If they don't cover Travis, that'd be crazy.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I mean there's still three more episodes. They've already taken
the chimps and there's three more episodes, so it is yeah, well,
I mean, what the fuck is going to happen?
Speaker 1 (33:48):
One the chimps is missing, which begs the question was
that for the sake of this documentary or would that
have happened whether or not the film crew is there,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:58):
So I don't I don't know. Yeah, it's it's hard
to say because they put the fucking cameras up there.
Like it's the people who did Tiger King, which was
they kind of went off the original and.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Way from the Tigers and towards the.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Murder correct, So like now it's what kind of case
can we make for this show. It's a little bit weird.
It's a little bit odd.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
So we'll see where it goes from here. But like
we said, so, we don't want to clog our feed
with just covering this documentary, so the other episodes will
be available on Ptreon if you're still interested and want
to listen along as we watch this. If you don't
want to watch it and want us to do it
and tell you about how terrible it is, we'll do that.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
When are we gonna do it, We don't quite know,
but we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
We'll get to it, i'd say, like we've been doing
like every week.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
We helly, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah cool, yep, you'll see it on there nice all right,
and we'll be back in two weeks with like another
more regular episode. But for now you can find all
of our social medias in the episode description. Thank you
again so much Josh Walls for making our intro music
and Jesse his brother, for editing everything. This one was
a little bit of a doozy because our recorder cut
just died in the middle.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
It was very funny. I always made like a second
recording just for that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, anyways, and then yeah, check out our website. Get
ali podcast dot com for merch and other things. I
don't know what else I usually say at the end
of these. It's been a hot minute, but I appreciate
you all for hanging in there and being patient and
saying nice things.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah for me again. Oh hey, keep thanks to a
minimum please.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Well, it's nicer to do it with a friend.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I didn't mean your hate mail.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Meant the people saying oh yeah, okay, I'll stop emailing
you mean things.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
You just texted them, you'd say something. It's fine, We're
used to this. You can't hurt my feelings anymore. Don't try.
Don't try to shut up. Only back in.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Two weeks with more animal attack stories.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Bye.
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