127 - Dustin Illgner - Amazon Expeditions and Stories of Surviving Mother Nature - Getting After It

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dustin (00:00):
That's a bear, I guess it could be a moose, but moose
moose are also crazy dangerous.
Yeah, I would rather run into ablack bear probably than a
moose.

Brett (00:08):
Yeah, dang, whatever works out, you can be aggressive
with that thing.

Dustin (00:12):
This feels official, dude, I like it.

Brett (00:14):
We're trying.
Man, you should have seen thefirst few episodes of this.
It was rough.
That was me in my basement andI was like, had no idea what I
was doing.
Nice, I always tell this story.
I had someone on from pattern,his name was stan and it was
episode eight and it's greatstory.
Like he talks about how helearned all these life lessons
from his dad and his dad passedaway from cancer and it was like

(00:36):
this really heartfelt thing.
And then, uh, I go back and Ilisten to the audio and it's all
auto-tuned because, like I had,like a sound mixer and so it
was like we sound like t-paintalking about like these cancer
yes, yeah, it's like not.
Yeah, he's like talking abouthis, his dad, you know, going
through chemo and all theseterrible things and it's just
we're auto-tuned the whole time.
But thanks, yeah so rough butdang gotten, gotten some lessons

(01:00):
learned, some hard ones.
But uh, yeah, man, it's uh,it's rolling now so we can, we
can go into it.
Do I look at the camera at all,or am I talking to you?
Yeah, just talk, talk to me.
It's, uh, as easy as you wantit to be.
But, yeah, dustin, thanks forthanks for coming on.
Yeah, excited to be here, it'sI.
Um, I'm also very excited thatyou're here.

(01:21):
Yeah, because I first heard um.
It's funny because there was aguy named dust who joined
Pattern not too long ago and Ithought it was him that did
these survival trips.
And I went up to him and Kateasked me to do some onboarding
with him.
And I was like, so you do theseonboarding trips or these
adventure trips like survival?
And he's like I have no ideawhat you're talking about.

(01:42):
He's like that's probablyanother Dustin and I'm like well
, I got to figure out who thisguy is because I want to talk to
him.
So, yeah, man, I got to ask howdid you get into this stuff?

Dustin (01:52):
Yeah, um.
So, starting out, uh, fromKansas and not a lot of people
were outdoorsy around me my dadtook me camping.
We did some like back countrycampingcountry camping.
Yeah, immediately had a lovefor it.
So, being from kansas, you'rekind of like, well, I gotta go
explore everywhere else becauseI mean kansas is a great place.
But like, what am I gonna go do?

Brett (02:11):
it's pretty flat right.
It's like planes, yeah, superflat.

Dustin (02:14):
Uh, there's some lakes, there's some some pretty woods,
but it's not utah, it's notcolorado, california, montana,
you know the, the highlights,yeah.
So I so I started going off and, and you know, convincing my
dad to take me on whatever tripwe could, uh, and then I started
planning my own, kind ofthrough that, I started going um
or discovering my love for theoutdoors, born more every trip.
So I started pushing it harderand harder.

(02:36):
My friends from Kansas werelike we're going to come.
Yeah, they were pretty cluelessas to how it works.
Uh, there's not as much likebackcountry culture there for
the outdoors.
People who are outdoors there,uh, are more into like hunting
and things like that.
So, yeah, yeah, started bringingmy friends um and I was like
man, I'm pretty responsible foreveryone here because I have
like learned kind of what I'mdoing through trial and error.

(02:58):
But I'm just backpacking,figuring it out as I go, and
should something go wrong,should we get lost?
Um, you know, I don't reallyknow what I'm doing.
So I was like I should learnsomething.
Yeah, I'd always had the itchto do like island survival.
That I always thought was cool,but started being like well, I
should like just go learn how todo this yeah, how'd you hear
about like island survival?

Brett (03:15):
because I think I told you I first learned about it
from that youtube channel,outdoor boys yeah, so I just
started researching it.

Dustin (03:22):
Well, I remember when I was young, my friend and I would
go to the creek we had a creekin our backyard, yeah, and I'd
be like man, I'm gonna surviveon an island one day.
I think I was like passed awayor something like that.
I was like oh, I'm like theisland, like you know you, you
romanticize it and you're likeI'd be catching crabs building
the cool shelter.
It's not like that.
I mean, once you're good it canbe, but anyway.
So I was really inspired to doit, sort of just googling it.
Yeah, got in touch with thecompany.

(03:43):
I was like you take people toislands and train them how to
survive.
And uh, they're like, yep, so Isigned up for a trip.
Um, just kind of like, screw it, I can do it.
Yeah, um, I'd done someinternational travel now by
myself and this is kind of likethat next adventure.
That was both wilderness andinternational travel, so booked
it.
We were going to go to panama ohman we're going to take a

(04:05):
helicopter, jump out of thehelicopter, swim to the island
and survive.
Oh my, but uh.
What a good start yeah yeah,but it fell through, so okay
there.
Uh, it was led by this guynamed ian craddock.
He has since passed away.
He is the most incredible humanI've ever met.
He was ex-british sas, which isa tier one military group yes,
yeah on our side we we have NavySEALs.

Brett (04:25):
Yeah, the Navy SEALs are those guys.

Dustin (04:27):
One above that is like 166.
He was the equivalent of thaton the British side, so we're
supposed to go with him.
One of the guys that was goingto go on this expedition from
the Netherlands.
He broke his leg and so him andhis three friends backed out.
We no longer had the minimumnumber to get the helicopter, so
we couldn't get to the islandgets canceled.
So he reaches out to me.

(04:47):
Um, in the meantime I was like,hey, this other trip that's
coming up, uh, but it's gonna bein the amazon rainforest.
I was like all right, and I'dbeen to the amazon two times
already at that one's doing likean eco lodge thing, and then
another time camping with thetribe, um, which we can get out
a little bit.
Yeah, the wadani tribe hadcamped with them and I was like
all right, like the amazon'spretty intense, I don't think

(05:09):
this sounds like fun at allduring survival.
But I'd also gotten far enoughalong that.
I was like, but I know it's not, it's going to be that goal.
That's like just beyond my, mycomfort zone.
So I was like let's do itthat's crazy, man.

Brett (05:21):
I mean I.
I think I talked to you aboutpaul rosalie, you know yeah,
I've followed his work.
His work is awesome it'samazing what he's doing and like
he'll post things of him justwaking up with spiders on his
face and he's like, yeah,another night in the amazon.
Yeah, so you gotta becomfortable I mean that's like
yeah, that's, that's a big leap,like okay let's go surviving
the amazon, so I'm excited tosee where this goes.
Yeah, yeah.

Dustin (05:41):
Yeah, so I did it and it's funny.
We'll get into this probablylater, but we did an exploration
trip about a year ago, a littleover a year First recorded
humans where we went and I'llkind of explain that a little
bit later.
Whoa, I had some friends whowanted to come and I made them
listen to Paul Rosalie because Iwas like you need to listen to
this, tell me how you feel afterthe podcast, because I think
painting the Amazon as both themost incredible majestic can't

(06:03):
miss place and the most brutal,terrible, avoid at all costs,
right.
So I'd have people listen to itand if they were like, yeah,
this still sounds good, I waslike, all right, you can come.
So as long as I had some other,you know, like experiences.

Brett (06:14):
Yeah, no, they have to have complete rookies, they have
to have their.

Dustin (06:20):
So, yeah, I went to the Amazon in Guyana.
It's on the north coast ofSouth Africa or South America,
between Suriname and Venezuela.

Brett (06:28):
Okay.

Dustin (06:29):
Went deep into the jungle there, learned how to
survive with this British SASguy plus a couple of tribal
people, and had a couple otherpeople that went and learned to
survive and did it, yeah.

Brett (06:40):
So what does that look like?
Like you guys all show up as agroup and first first day at
camp, like I've heard, shelters,the most important thing.
You got to get shelter firstand then it's water, then it's
food.

Dustin (06:50):
Yeah, and there's different.
Some people prioritize it indifferent ways.
There's always like differentacronyms and stuff.
But yeah, in the Amazon I wouldsay prioritize shelter.
So yeah, we flew into Guyana,then we flew in a little deeper
and then we took a bus.
Then we got to this littletribal village.
We then got our packs and wehiked in.
So for the first five days itwas training, so we had hammocks

(07:11):
, we had food, we had basicaccommodations for, let's just
call it, a rough camping trip.

Brett (07:19):
We're sleeping in hammocks, which has a net, and
all that Not ideal, but you'vegot a place ideal, but yeah, if
you're not outdoors, you'regonna hate it right, if you're
outdoors and you've camped, youcan deal with this like it's not
that tough, um, you are wakingup early and you're going on
hikes.

Dustin (07:32):
The jungle is pretty tough, um.
But so five days there we spentthe first one where he had like
a little structure.
He had built it's like a roofand we had like a, a picnic
table.
Um, he had a whiteboard and Ithink even like a power
generator, so at night we likeflick on a light.
We had that there.
That was, I think, three daysand then we all hopped in the
canoe, we went deeper into thejungle and then we trained a

(07:52):
little bit more, but furtheraway from stuff yeah and then
the last bit um, essentially wehopped into boats.
He took us all out separately.
I went with.
It was just me, this britishsas guy, ian, plus lionel, who's
the uh elder of the makushitribe.
Okay, go down the river.
They pull over.
They tell me to get out.
I have a couple basic supplies.

(08:13):
Um, they said we'll see youhere in a few days.
They didn't tell me how manydays it was going to be.
Um, ended up being three.
So you know it wasn't likestill yeah, yeah, yeah but uh,
yeah, built shelter so what's itlike?

Brett (08:24):
what's going through your head when they're like, okay,
we're gonna take you on a canoe,go a little bit further in.
And then the final point, he'slike now get on this boat and
you know you're gonna getdropped off.
Like what are you thinking isthere?
Are you like I'm freaking out?
Are you kind of calm?
You you got you know kind of,you're good, you're confident.

Dustin (08:39):
Yeah, it's kind of both your, your mind's kind of racing
.

Brett (08:41):
You're like what did I?

Dustin (08:42):
forget.
You're thinking back to everyclass.
So on one hand you're panickingand you're like have.
I thought of everything.
On the flip side, another partof my brain is like you're going
to make it.
It's like all this anxiety youhave, you know you're going to
be fine, it's just to say, wouldyou be a little bit more
comfortable?
Um, yeah, I mean kind of causeyou could give up if you want.

(09:02):
So he would give us a radio Ifwe hit the button, then he'd
come pick us up so we have likean escape button, yeah, Um, so I
knew I could at least have anout and I'd be.
What was most at risk was sureI could get hurt, but really it
was just like my pride.
So yeah that's fair.
Yeah, so a lot of emotions, um,but then gone.
You have that moment where yousee the boat going off and then

(09:22):
you see them turn the corner andthen you see them no longer.
They're gone.
Oh yeah, that was prettyexhilarating, where I just
looked around and I was like itis me yeah, the freaking amazon
rainforest I have no idea howlong I'm gonna be here exactly.

Brett (09:34):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Dustin (09:35):
That was pretty exhilarating all right like this
is what you signed up for andthis is it, and you kind of look
up at the sky, you look down atthe dirt, you look at the water
and you're like it's just me innature and like yeah that was
one of the most probably presentmoments I've ever had.
That's got to be amazing.
Yeah, it's, it's, you have thatmoment.
We were like I really am righthere right now yeah like I
almost picture myself on a map,like and like a google earth and

(09:57):
like you know, zooming out.
It's like it's just me and likeyeah, nothing else picturing
you.
Yeah, the canopy above me,that's crazy man.
Yeah, it was pretty wild.

Brett (10:05):
So what was like first night?
Like Like, did you set up?
Like, did you build a shelter,or like what that looked like
Build a shelter, okay.

Dustin (10:11):
That was my first priority.

Brett (10:12):
Yeah.

Dustin (10:13):
That was tough.
Here's the thing is in survival.
You're like, oh, I could builda shelter, I could get this, I
could fish, I could build aspear I could.
But your energy resources andyour energy bank, essentially,
is going down.
So imagine like you have yourcell phone and you're sitting
there being like all right, likewhat are the most important
phone calls I got to make, andyou're just watching that
battery go down and down anddown and you're like okay, like

(10:35):
put it on airplane mode.

Brett (10:36):
Like you know, switch it back off, you know it's like
what do I?

Dustin (10:38):
really takes a ton of energy, okay, so built a shelter
, um, pretty basic structure,some y sticks.
So you know, stick that has a,you know, use that.
Okay, for the roof, I foundsome trees that I could go up
against.
You want to be lifted off theamazon floor because it's the
amazon and there's tons ofcreepy crawlies.

Brett (10:54):
Yeah, which we gotta, we gotta talk about that I want to
know a little bit about thatstuff.

Dustin (10:57):
Oh yeah, tarantulas grubs, uh, bullet ants.
We'll talk about bullet antsholy cow built a shelter um.
We had uh iodine, so thankfullyyeah, yeah, for water right.
He gives us that now we didhave like you could build a
little bamboo thing to to um,boil water and everything.
But in the amazon you losewater so fast.
He's like I know you have theskills, let's not risk it

(11:19):
because that could be a prettybig liability.
You know he has a company andhas a conscious you know, yeah,
absolutely dying on him, sodidn't have to worry about that
as much I had I.
Then there's water there, um, sothat's the one good thing about
that area.
Yeah, built a shelter, got afire going, had um a little
flint striker for that, so got afire going with that.
Um kept that going all night.
Yeah, that first night waspretty scary and terrible.

(11:41):
The jungle comes to life atnight, so it just there's stuff
yeah, that's what I've heard.

Brett (11:46):
Man monkeys like screaming right howler monkeys.

Dustin (11:49):
Second, loudest mammal in the world and there was one
right above my like shelter,like a few trees over, so that's
gotta be and you can't see ityeah, no, no, you can't, you
can't, and uh, yeah, so holylook up.
Look, I would freak out look upa howler monkey car.
I don't know if you're going toedit it in.

Brett (12:05):
I can toss it in here.
Yeah, I'll put it in.

Dustin (12:07):
And it sounds like some sort of demon.
So you just got that around andthen just bugs, you know,
flying in.
There's no.
When you're sleeping in a tentand you hear noises, you at
least have that barrier nobarrier, no headlamp.
So I had a little fire going.
Once that went out, it's likepitch black.

Brett (12:26):
Yeah, you got nothing.
I got to.
You know, so pretty scary.
You can't really see the starsbecause of all the jungle.

Dustin (12:31):
Yeah, exactly, so it's like no stars canopy, you know,
I could see a little bit past meto you, and if I had a bright
fire going up to yourimagination, that's crazy.

Brett (12:41):
So what tools did you have when they dropped you off?

Dustin (12:43):
Yes, we had, uh, some fish hooks and a little bit of
line.
Um iodine, a can, a canteen, uma bow and arrow with like three
shots, wow, um a knife, amachete, the Flint striker I
mentioned that that might be it,holy cow.

(13:03):
So no food.
We had some cotton balls.
Yeah, no food, no water.

Brett (13:06):
Cotton balls to start the fire.
Yeah, okay, man, so you'rehunting.

Dustin (13:11):
Yeah, hunting is the idea.
Uh, I didn't do so well Umfishing I did not so well, um,
foraging, that was big.
Here's the thing is there's acouple key things you need to
learn for survival how to make ashelter, how to just mentally
deal with it, yeah, you knowkind of how to prioritize, how
to get a fire going, but afterthat it's how do you know your

(13:31):
landscape around you?
Um, so there are some resourceshere that, like, you can use,
yeah, to then say, okay, I canat least get some calories this
way.
So foraging is big, that's abig one, I would learn and what
would you go and find in theamazon?
yeah, the the one is hard, soyou can get down from a palm
tree.
Okay, you can pull outsomething about like this big,
probably.
Yeah, um, it's a decent amountof calories.

(13:51):
Probably.
I don't know the exact count.
I'm gonna guess four or fivehundred.
Um, look it up, double check meon that.
But yeah, the only thing is ithas a no taste and it like it's
super, super fibrous and ittakes up like a lot of like
stomach space.
So imagine if you're likeeating kind of like celery
that's a little bit more fibrous.

Brett (14:07):
Yeah, just dense.

Dustin (14:08):
You can only have so much, so I got some of that.
Um, there's a tree called thecookery tree and it has these
little grubs that grow in the umWalnut, so you get that down
there.
They're virgin to the outsideworld.
Outside world they were likethey were in there as a larva.
They've never, seen the outsideworld to crack them open.
And they're small.

Brett (14:26):
They actually don't taste that bad really you can get
some of that.
It's staring at you in the face, that's like oh yeah, I've got
a youtube video where it showsus.

Dustin (14:34):
And we all had this last thing.
We had camp initiation everyonehad to eat one and oh, there we
go yeah, people were like oh,it's so bad.
Oh wait, actually it's not asbad as you think, yeah.
It's just the psychologicalthing, exactly, yeah, so we had
that, we could use it as fishbait.
In my case, I only caught a fewsmall fish, so then I just ate
some grubs.

Brett (14:50):
Yeah, eating some grubs.
It's like your bucket ofpopcorn.
Yeah, tossing it back.

Dustin (14:55):
Can't have too much, though.

Brett (15:05):
It's pretty, so you can only have a couple dang.

Dustin (15:06):
That's wild man.
So how'd the rest of the tripgo for the for that time?
Yeah, so let's see, I had somegrubs, uh, had some hard palm.
I think I had two of those, andthen after a while I got like
another one.
Yeah, I'd be chewing it.
I just like the stuff wasfalling on my mouth.
I don't want to swallow this,that's just.
It's once you've had enoughyeah, it's like eating like
celery cardboard.
Oh, so didn't have a ton morefood.
Um, caught a few small fish,ate a few grubs.

(15:28):
I don't think there's any fruitI had there's like one mango
you could find.
I couldn't find any.
Um, there was one kind of likenut and it has like this powder
in it, that kind of tastes likebanana.
You can't have much of it.
Yeah, I forget the name of it.
It's escaping me right now.
I had a little bit of that, notmuch, uh, so didn't eat much.
Had water, barely slept.
Yeah, to the point of like, uh,you know, felt very off, yeah

(15:53):
just like unbelievable fatigueexactly.

Brett (15:55):
Is that because of like the monkeys, like the loud
sounds, or like you're justworried, or, yeah, you're
worried?

Dustin (16:01):
monkeys are going, bugs are, bats are flying around.
Your mind is just kind of goingcrazy, you know.
Again it's think about whenyou're in the basement by
yourself and the lights are off.
It's a little creepy.
And then you're like, ifsomething scares you, I'm going
to turn on my phone andeverything.
You get creeped out.
You can't do that, so you getthe phone going and then it goes
down.
So sometimes I'd finally kindof relax in the fire.

(16:21):
The wind would change direction.
Next thing, you know, smoke'sin my face.
It's like, ah, coughing and allthat it's like, okay, now I'm up
, then you hear something else.
That was not good.
Then my shelter was built up onthe tree I was mentioning
earlier, the coca tree.
It has some branches that arekind of like bamboo, where
they're all pretty straight.
They're pretty flexible.
You've made that for my bed,wrap some palms around it, but

(16:43):
it's not comfortable.
It's still kind of like movingaround, you're kind of falling
through it, um.
So yeah, you're prettyuncomfortable, your bed sucks uh
, there's stuff everywherethat's like alive uh, and you're
kind of scared.
So I probably slept an hourbetween two nights that's nuts,
you know.

Brett (16:59):
Yeah, that is crazy.
So, like, what are you doingduring the day?
Just hanging out or what's thatlook like?

Dustin (17:04):
Yeah, Um well getting resources important.

Brett (17:08):
Yeah.

Dustin (17:08):
Building a shelter is important If you're not actively
doing something.
One of the best survivalsayings is you don't have to run
, walk you don't have to walk,stand you don't have to stand,
sit you don't have to sit lay,yeah, if you have to be awake,
go to bed, um, so a lot ofdowntime, yeah, if you're not
doing something.
But yeah, building the shelter,trying to find food, trying to

(17:30):
forage, uh, keeping an eye outfor any game.
I saw a?
Um little agouti.
It's like a little possum.
It's probably like this big.
Oh, I saw one shot at it.
I missed by like an inch, butthen I got stuck in the log that
it was under so I had to topull that out.
Lost an arrow that way.
I then saw a little, um, it'slike a jungle Turkey, I don't
know the exact name, a littlebit smaller.
I had left my bow strong for toolong and it lost some of its

(17:51):
tension, so it had gotten wet.
I shot it.
My arrow just barely went, somissed that.
But trying to find food umshelter, the fact that I knew
there was an end date, you knowhe didn't tell me exactly how
long it was like it's not goingto be more than like four or
five five at the absolute max.
Um, and I was like I was prettysure three or four, you can kind

(18:13):
of take your foot off the gaspedal a little bit, but usually
what you're trying to do isreally make your shelter way
better, always gatheringfirewood.
If you're going to go forfirewood, keep an eye out for
food.
If you're gonna go for food,keep an eye out for firewood.
Um, it's really just gettingyour resources, um replenished
and stocked up.
That's awesome.

Brett (18:28):
That's what you always kind of have to be doing man
that's like uh, every kid'sdream is like just go out and
live in the forest yeah, that'scrazy man.
Yeah, did you have anythingcrazy happen to you during those
two nights or that whole timethere?
Like, did you run into anyanimals, anything that was
either dangerous Animals orinsects?
I want to learn about thatstuff.

Dustin (18:47):
Yeah, you're constantly seeing stuff.
I didn't see too many.
I saw one snake I don't thinkit was a venomous one, I forget.
It was like this red snakewhich can, I guess, be
territorial and aggressive, butit was down the bank, it wasn't
too close to me, so thankfully,no snakes.
I saw a tarantula in my um, inmy actual shelter, not quite the
size like my outstretched hand,but pretty big.

(19:08):
Yeah, probably like this, and Iwas in my shelter so I just got
him out, moved him, relocatedhim, yeah, um, one night, on the
second night, I heard thisreally crazy noise around my
shelter and I was like, yeah,like this weird whistling noise,
like that's not a monkey,that's not.
Yeah, I thought my mind starts,you know going places.
Then I was like is it one ofthe tribal guys?

(19:28):
Like playing a joke on me,because I can't, it's not a bird
.
It starts circling my shelter.
Oh my, I can't tell what it is.
So I'm keeping the fire betweenme and it and I'm like banging
my machete and I'm like what ishappening?
You know, if it's over here,I'm kind of playing this game of
try to keep the light sourceand I'm freaking out.
Later on I find out.
It was a kinkachu, which islike the cutest little, like

(19:48):
ferret monkey looking thing.

Brett (19:50):
And.

Dustin (19:50):
I was like okay, that was nothing.

Brett (19:51):
But that was like my scariest.
It's the mind games man.
It is, it is.

Dustin (19:55):
I had a couple cool moments where one of the days I
was sitting in my little jungleshelter and think of that
classic picture of the days Iwas sitting in my little jungle
shelter and think of thatclassic picture of the canopy,
the lights coming through andyou can kind of see the rays of
light yeah yeah, I had my firegoing.
So I'm looking up and that'scoming through and I'm sitting
there and I have a roof on myshelter.
It's with palms and it's kindof making this really cool.
Uh, volumetric light is comingthrough and two just gorgeous,

(20:20):
um jungle hummingbirds come intomy shelter and I mean mean, I'm
just laying there, super still.
They probably had no idea I wasthere because I was being so
quiet and at this point I'mcovered in Amazon dirt and grime
so I don't smell like a humanwearing sunscreen and stuff
anymore.
So anyways, they flew in and formaybe just 30 seconds they were
just zooming around and I wasjust watching.
I was like you don't get thisif you're hiking, you don't get

(20:40):
this.
If you're hiking, you don't getthis.
If you're with tourists, youdon't get this.
If you're taking pictures, youdon't get this.
If you're talking, you get this.
If you've been sitting in thesame spot, totally, still
totally silent, for an hour ormore, that's awesome.
So these two beautiful birdswere flying around my shelter
and then that was the day one ortwo.
One of the mornings I went out.

(21:05):
There was a little log thatwent into the river and I just
sat there and I was like huh,just sat by the water and all of
a sudden a, a giant river otterswam up.
I mean within like 15 feet to meReally, and it swims up and
it's like making eye contactwith me, and me and I are just
we're just looking at this, uh,looking at each other and just
kind of swimming around, andyeah, I'm checking it and it's
checking me out and I justwatched it and you kind of
almost had this moment where itdidn't physically shrug but kind

(21:26):
of like the same thing.
It's kind of like and then justkind of zoomed off and I just
watched it do its thing, kind ofgo in and out, and that's so
cool yeah it was a really coolmoment.
It made these like, like throatnoises.
Um, that was a really coolmoment.
I was like I'm, oh man, face toface this wildlife and we're
looking at each other it's notme observing it.
So a lot of really cool likelow key, um calm moments too.

Brett (21:48):
Yeah, I feel like that would be something like that's
worth taking the trip alone.
It's like even when I I I toldyou before we started recording,
like my wife and I just gotback from Montana and we went
out to Glacier National Park andwe just went on some hikes, and
even that is just like you havethat opportunity to be one with
nature, and it's like you feelso connected and we were talking

(22:10):
the whole time.
It's like we just feel so calmand it's like I think it's
because this is what we're meantto be doing.
Yeah, so it's interesting, butthat's so cool, like having
moments like that, and yeah,that's rad.

Dustin (22:21):
They're totally worthwhile.
And I think it's like you'resaying one with nature.
There's at some point, kind oflike a tipping point where at
first you're like a naturetourist yeah, You're the fish
out of water taking pictures andyou know.
And then, after enough amountof time, enough amount of you
know, you've sweat and you've,you know, been out there, you've
woken up in nature you kind ofstart to stop being a tourist
and actually are one with nature, especially when you're using

(22:44):
nature as a resource and you'revery aware of what it can
provide for you and what canalso take from you.
As far as the heat and theexposure and dangerous animals.
That's when I really do feelone with nature.
I'm both appreciating it in amore full way, um, and also
fearing it in a much more way aswell, I mean mother nature is a
beast.
Yeah, you don't, you don't, butyou do want to appreciate it.

Brett (23:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and like I don't know.
That's why I love living inUtah, because we have the
mountains so close by, and it'slike every time I go to Arizona
that's where I'm from.

Dustin (23:24):
You know, mother nature's in charge yep, you got
the mountains there and you gotdesert down south.
Yeah, but, and yeah there'sthere's a good mix up here, so
it's it's fun to be able toescape into it.
That's why I love it here too.

Brett (23:34):
That's awesome, man.
So the amazon, you get pickedup and, um, I assume they just
like take you back to the groupand everything and everyone's
sharing stories.

Dustin (23:43):
Yep, I mean it was an awesome like party essentially,
I mean once we got back to thetribal thing.
So Ian, again the British SASguy he kind of believes in like
push you to your absolute limits, so picks us up.
I was the last one to getpicked up.
Everyone else was downstream, Iwas upstream.

Brett (23:59):
They're like.

Dustin (23:59):
I'm really going to push Justin here, yeah, exactly, I'm
really gonna push you out.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I'm gonnasuffer.
I mean, it's probably an extrahour or two, nothing crazy, but
it was like you know.
So that was great, um, pick upand I'm like all right, great,
like, give me some of that food.
I know you got some.
He's like no, no, in a survivalsituation, your rescuer is
probably not gonna have extrameals on them, oh man.

Brett (24:17):
So like three hour boat ride.
Oh no food.
So I'm like ah, let's go.

Dustin (24:22):
I know he had it and he was like he gave me a few
crackers because like an averagehiker might have, yeah, like
some trail makes or somethingyeah so, uh, anyways, had a few
crackers.
Then, three hours upstream, it'sthe time where I got stuck on a
log.
We're like hauling this out.
I haven't eaten, I haven'tslept.
Um, then we go, we get to theedge.
Uh, the forest is like well, wegot to bring our stuff back.
So then we have to put on60-pound packs.

(24:42):
These are military packs, notlike nice backpacking.
Right right, I'm sitting therewith this thing, I'm like okay.
And then we had to hikeprobably a mile through the
jungle and there was a reallywell-defined trail, but you're
still humidity and all that.

Brett (24:53):
And you're depleted, Like you're just drained Yep.

Dustin (25:07):
That's insane.
Um, you're feeling beat up.
I remember at one point I wasgetting like a little light head
like that, yeah you know.
So it's like a march.
After that, get back to thetribal thing.
First thing.
He's like have a beer.
I'm like all right, like Ihaven't, like I have no food.
Me had one beer and I was likeoh, you're falling, you're
falling around, and then afterthat buffet.
Yeah, it was like they'rebringing out this fish they had
caught and it was awesome they'dmade these like little, uh,
cinnamon cake things.
I don't know, it probably wasn'tactually, so it's something
like that.
Um, then now we just ate eight,eight, eight, eight.
Showered, passed out, woke upeight, eight, eight, eight.

Brett (25:27):
Yeah, that's gotta be the best feeling yeah like anytime
I I'd go on like a huge long runor something like that.
I take a nap, that's the bestfeeling, but I can't even
imagine what it would be likethree days oh yeah, no sleep, no
food or like little food, andthen it's just like party time.
That's gotta be so cool it's.

Dustin (25:44):
It's not only the rest and recovery, which is the best
thing ever.
I mean showering and gettinginto like dry clothes.
When you're in the amazon,you're somewhat wet for the
entire time, because yourhumidity and everything doesn't
yeah, it doesn't um go away, sothat's awesome.
but then the second piece, justthat feeling you're like I just
did.
You're thinking this is thatthing that I didn't know if I

(26:07):
could do and I was just hoping Iwould not give up.
And you're like, just did it.
This is now this life thing.
It's not even a box you check.
It's like I have this new skill, this new appreciation, this
new confidence.
I mean, I walked out of therefeeling like I was 10 feet tall
and bulletproof.
That's awesome, man.

Brett (26:23):
That's so cool and to your point like probably gives
you such an appreciation forthings like running water and
dry clothes.
And all the little things wetake advantage of for every
single day.
Yep, it's like man just givesyou a different appreciation for
it.

Dustin (26:36):
You're not taking your boots off in the Amazon, really.
So, you can't right, I was likewiggling my toes, you know, and
I was like ah.

Brett (26:42):
I was like they're dry and I'm wiggling.

Dustin (26:43):
This is great, you know.
So just little stuff like that.
It was a wood floor with alittle like tribal eco lodge, so
I was just walking barefoot inthere and I was like man, the
ground's flat.
This is great, my feet are yeah.

Brett (26:53):
No bullet ants.

Dustin (26:54):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, Okay.
Well, he knew where a nest was,so he showed us Again.
This guy is about as hardcoreas they've come.
Yeah, just any story that youcould possibly imagine.
He's got it.
Yeah, and he's telling me astory where he had a grenade
that blew up and he had hotshrapnel in his back.

(27:16):
Oh jeez.
And then when he got taken tothe medic, he wanted to be kept
awake so he could advise themedic on how he was like
watching with a mirror, like howto stitch it and remove it,
because a, he is one of thoseguys he's so smart he doesn't
trust other people yeah, andthen he's like, if I can get him
to stitch deeper, I get paidmore because you know it's it's,
you get paid per stitch on yourinjury.
Yeah, um, so he's a guy likethat.
Okay, he wanted to show us thebullet ant because he said he

(27:38):
got bit by a bullet ant twice inhis life and both times he
spent 24 hours in his hammockwhimpering really how painful it
is.
It's the number one most painfulinsect bite or sting yeah, in
the world.
Um.
So, as he showed us there, hewas like hey, come over here.
Here's what the nest looks like, here's how you can identify it
, here's how you tap the tree tosee if blah, blah, blah.
So he showed us um my recentamazon excursion, we were nine

(28:01):
days in the jungle.
On our last 15 minutes, uh, mybuddy and my, our guide, anders,
uh, he has a company called thewild tails.
I'll come up.
Um, he had one on his neck andso I was like, and then, instead
of smashing it, he flicked it,which is the right thing to do,
cause you smash it, you'regetting stung.
Yeah, um, ever seen anyoneactually be to get in bit?

(28:21):
And I mean, if that would havehappened, he would have just
gone down and yeah yeah,thankfully we were close, but
we're like, oh man, like thejungle dude.

Brett (28:27):
Yeah, that's, that's insane and they're, they're
pretty big aren't they?

Dustin (28:30):
they're like the size of a.
Essentially they're notactually ants.
Imagine, oh really imagine likea pretty sizable wasp, but what
they are are wasps that havelost their wings through
evolution.
Interesting, um, so they looklike an ant, but about like,
yeah, this big.
So imagine a wasp that'stotally black, um, no wings and
a stinger.
That's and it doesn't kill you,it's just incredibly painful it
doesn't kill you, it's uh, it'ssome sort of neuro thing where

(28:52):
it spasms your like nervoussystem there.
So for like 24 hours it justhas this.
Your, your nervous system islike.
I don't know how to explain it,but yeah, not good.

Brett (29:02):
Yeah, the only experience I've had with bull ants.
I don't know if you've everseen Jackass.
Yeah, yeah, there's this onescene, yeah, where they put
their hands in, like these mitts.

Dustin (29:11):
Oh, they did that.

Brett (29:12):
Yeah, they put their hands in like these mitts and
like it's Steve-O, of course.

Dustin (29:16):
Yeah.

Brett (29:28):
And Steve-O's like throws him off and he like runs into
the water and stuff and but justlike it's, I can't believe
people.

Dustin (29:32):
Guys are crazy.

Brett (29:32):
Oh yeah, they're nuts, but they're, they're broken in
the head.
Yeah, so, but man, that'sawesome.
Yeah, great show, great show,yeah, um, so what were you doing
out there last time?

Dustin (29:37):
just another survival trip or yeah, so last time was
an expedition, okay, uh.
So ian craddock, the guy whopassed away, we wanted to honor
him.
Anyone who had come in contactor got to know Ian, he was just
hands down, one of the mostinfluential people you had ever
met.
Yeah, when I was in the junglewith him for two weeks I was
like the only thing that'scooler than the jungle is this
guy.
Really, I was like any piece oranything of wildlife that I'm

(29:57):
going to see, any cool plantan'scooler and what was his like
interest in the, the jungle andsurvival, specifically like how
to get into that he just lovedit.
He was a, he was a nature boy,he was a wild I think he is one
of those guys who's super, superextreme and he's not enjoying
life to its fullest unless he'spushed himself, so he's like,
well, that means the amazon.

(30:18):
So I think that's where he wentand he set up a company and, uh
, he got some business throughit.
I mean to where he would bringsurvival people like us, but he
would also work with like a-listcelebrities, really bringing
them down.
Yeah, it's really funny, thistribe um, they, like you know,
haven't seen the outside worldtoo much.
Some of them have now been totown and everything like that.
Um, but like oh yeah channingtatum.

Brett (30:37):
Yeah, we know chan you know it's like they're just like
name jobs.

Dustin (30:39):
Some people they were like yeah, we like drank a bunch
of rum and he shows his dancemoves.

Brett (30:43):
Oh yeah, he's our great friend too.
Yeah, exactly yeah, so likeit's.
It's so funny.

Dustin (30:47):
And then, um, one of the tribal guys.
He actually got onto a TV showin London.
So this guy actually flew toLondon to be on a show called
family life swap.
Oh wow, they put him in Londonand, yes, they did that's
hilarious.

Brett (30:59):
That's probably a big culture shock.

Dustin (31:02):
Yeah.
So I think he wanted to gosomewhere.
That was extreme, yeah, andthen somewhere he could start up
a business and if you'refilming movies there's a need
for the Amazon.
Some of the most beautifulregions If you go in the
basements a little more flat.
We are by the Paco RamoMountains, so there's like a

(31:24):
mountain bit richer because ofoil, but at least at that time
second poorest country in theWestern Hemisphere.

Brett (31:31):
Really, I didn't know that.

Dustin (31:32):
Yeah, per capita after Haiti, which is not great.
But what is cool iseverything's super untouched and
super remote.
So, this is where you canactually go to um places.
The amazon I haven't beenexplored before, so he really
liked that aspect.
He felt like he had this placethat he could find, that he'd be
like let's go find a newwaterfall, let's go find a new
species.

Brett (31:52):
So he, it was, just, it was a playground for him yeah um
, so yeah, that was, that washim.

Dustin (31:58):
That's why he set it up there.
He passed away, uh, my friendanders, who I I mentioned again
the Wild Tales.
He runs that company.
He was kind of his right-handman.
He wanted to set up, operate orkind of rebrand it and after
COVID he's like, let's get atrip going.
So him and I talked we're like,hey, let's get an expedition
going and see if we can kind ofkick off your company.

(32:20):
So we did a memorial for Ianand then plan this awesome
expedition in the jungle.

Brett (32:24):
So what's, what's?
Uh, I mean, I think that's agreat way to honor him, by the
way.

Dustin (32:28):
I think that's so cool.

Brett (32:30):
Um, yeah, um.
What's an expedition Like?
What are you guys looking for?
Something you're trying toexplore right?

Dustin (32:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we were looking forsomething.
Um, we wanted to be tailoredand, like, do something that
would make him proud.
So he worked with the Makushitribe they're the ones in Guyana
when he met them I'm going tosay 21 years ago I think is the
last number I heard.
I don't know if that's exactlycorrect, but around 20 years ago
we'll say they were still very,very primitive.
I mean, a lot of them werestill like naked in the jungle

(32:59):
and he took them into modernityto a certain degree, as and they
wanted that.
They were very like hey, we knowthe outside world, like we've
been there a little bit, how dowe start to?
So he really formed a reallygreat relationship with them.
I mean, they respect him somuch, he respects them so much.
So we were like, how do we doan expedition that's in this
area that would also honor them?
So it's the Makushi tribe.
About 200 years ago there wascannibalistic war, um, where the

(33:27):
caribs yeah, uh, the caribscame and invaded and essentially
killed the men, enslaved thewomen and then children killed
and ate the children.

Brett (33:31):
Oh my, so this?

Dustin (33:31):
crazy holy broke out, yeah uh, just 200 years ago,
yeah, 200 years ago, the tribe.
Uh, they had sarama, which isthe uh village that we now go
through.
Sarama, in their language meanshuman barbecue.
Oh my, because that's wherethey all got captured and they
burned all the men and all that.
I have a YouTube video out ofthis, if you ever want to check

(33:52):
it out and Lionel explains it.

Brett (33:55):
Yeah, what's your YouTube channel called.
I'll put it in the show notes.

Dustin (33:57):
It's called One Wild Path and I have one video up,
and it is of this trip.

Brett (34:01):
Right on.
So there we go 200 years ago.

Dustin (34:04):
This tribe breaks off into two groups, maybe more, but
kind of two main groups.
One stays in Sarama Uh, youheard their fate.
And then the other went andkind of hit in the mountains and
we're like we're not going tofight this, let's get away.
How do we go hide?
Like the caribs are too strongabout 20.

(34:25):
The reason I said ian met them21 years ago is 21 years ago was
the last time someone foundthis waterfall.
Um.
So they went to this waterfalland they found a petroglyph and
like, oh, this is the chief, oh,that's cool and through kind of
oral tradition, like, oh, thisis like, yep, this is the place
where, uh, their chief wasslaughtered years ago.
Um, it's like, okay, we knowthis, and if you look at the
area in the topography, we thinkthere's probably a second
waterfall further up.
So, like, let's go see if wecan.

(34:45):
We know where the firstwaterfall is.
Let's see if we can push alittle further um and see if we
can find the old village thatthen kind of broke off and then
essentially died out.
Oh man, so that was theintention of the trip.
Um, we were gonna go um see ifwe could find it.
It was taking a little bit toolong, so we were like, just
looking at our days, like wecould maybe make it to where we
think it is, but we're going tobe pushing it and at this point

(35:06):
if now we don't have enoughreserves where someone does
brandon inc.

Brett (35:09):
When we slow down, it's gonna be pushing it right too
close so and you can't reallyplan it out on google maps
because it's just no covered.

Dustin (35:15):
No, no and and this area where we went.
There are no records of anyonegoing there wow the reason we
kind of say they're the firstrecorded humans where we went is
we do want to respect the tribe.
Yeah, they might have beenthere at some point, but they do
have records up to 21 years agoof who's gone where and
everything.
This one ian started leadingexpeditions yeah and no one had

(35:35):
been to this region and no trueoutside influence had really
gone in this area prior to him.
So first recorded humans wherewe went, there was a mountain.
They were like if we can't makeit to the village, there's this
other cool mountain fromoverlook.
Let's just go climb that.
So ended up doing a mountainhike.
It's like a three to 4,000 footmountain Nothing crazy, Um, but
through the jungle it's tough.
Yeah, that's gotta be yourhuman and all that stuff.

(35:57):
Oh, I can't breathe and no trailand you know you're walking
like oh this is a cliff, let'sturn back there, you know so it
gets tough.
So yeah, went up there instead.
Uh didn't find the village, butwe're the first recorded humans
where we went there.
That is awesome.
We took the tribe.
We had three tribal guides withus damien, lionel and paul so
we decided to name the mountainthe lipa, for d-a-l-i and then

(36:21):
p-a all right, they're calledthe lipa the lipa, not to be
confused, a dual lipa um yeah,so we ended up doing that
instead.
That was kind of the wholepremise.
The expedition yeah, um, andwent up and that is awesome man
unofficially named them out.
It's not going to be in anymaps and we'll even see if the
tribe they don't really carethat much they're like yeah sure
it's called the lipa so yeah,that was the expedition.

Brett (36:39):
That is awesome.
Do you feel like indiana joneswhen you're doing this?

Dustin (36:42):
because I for sure would there's a few moments where
you're like, uh, like we sawlike a 15 foot anaconda what
there was a yeah uh in the water.
There was a moment where, um,some spider monkeys probably
like six of them like surroundedus from like 60 feet up and
they were just like breaking offhuge sticks and throwing it at
us and then trying to pee on usand then throwing really huge
chunks of poop at us andactually hit my friend's pack.
I mean he got splattered thatwas monkeys man yep, uh and

(37:05):
ocelot came through our camp, uh, which is oh, that's cool.
Yeah, jaguar yeah, um, so thatcame through.
Uh, let's see monkeys, anaconda.
Oh, we caught a caiman.
There was one that was we can'tput this other really beautiful
waterfall, yeah and uh, thiscaiman's like kind of coming up
like we don't want this thing.
So, like anders, just likecaught it and, yeah, you know,
probably like a five foot longthing.
So and what?

Brett (37:26):
are they?

Dustin (37:26):
they're not crocodiles, they're not alligators, they're
like a mix, just a yeah, smallerversion yeah, it's kind of like
an ocelot, it's a small jaguar,it's like a small crocodile.
So in those moments you do feellike indiana jones.
We sent up the drone nothingfor miles, uh, and then our
drone got attacked by killerbees at one point.
So really make sure we don'tbring that back.
Um, yeah, I mean, nine days, nohumans, no trails, wow, no

(37:50):
pieces of trash.
We didn't see a satellite, wedidn't hear an airplane or a
helicopter or any traffic or anyanything.
The only thing we saw is at onepoint on the trail we saw some
slashes in the tree.
Yeah, and that was from, uh,back in the day the tribe would
go harvest rubber.
Um, oh, wow, okay, that waslike the only sign of humans we
saw.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofpoints where you're like I do
feel like ananda jones right nowyeah, that is so cool, man it's

(38:13):
pretty wild so did you?

Brett (38:14):
um, like during that time you said nine days with just no
contact with anyone, and likeit feels like you're in a
different.
Yeah, what's that like?
Because I mean you hear it allthe time like everyone's like,
man, if I could get rid of myphone for just a day, yeah, like
I would love it.
Or like you know, I just needto go take a trip by myself, or
whatever it is like peoplealways say, you know they just
need to get away for a second,but you're immersed in that for

(38:34):
nine days and you have no option.
Like you can't pick up yourphone, even if you wanted to.
So like, what's that like?

Dustin (38:40):
It's, it's the most refreshing experience you could
possibly have.
Um your mind, I feel like yourbrain goes to a place where,
like, oh, this is how my brainis supposed to operate where I
wake up and I just look aroundat the physical things around me
yeah, I'm thinking about water,I'm thinking about food, I'm
thinking about how my feet feeland you're just, you're very
like tuned into being a human,and then it's really good for

(39:05):
your mind and then your bodystarts to feel better too, like
you're definitely pushing.
I had, like you, I had a rashon my arm from like a heat rash,
and you know you're sweaty, butyou're uncomfortable, but you
can just tell you're moving yourbody in a way that's meant to
like.
I actually went into the trip.

Brett (39:17):
I was pretty nervous with plantar fasciitis oh, okay and
yeah, which is you know, verybad on your feet, yeah, which is
, you know, very bad on yourfeet, yeah Kills.

Dustin (39:24):
Which is you know.
You're hiking every day withthese packs, but and how long?

Brett (39:27):
How long are like typical day hikes, probably four to
eight hours.

Dustin (39:32):
Okay, usually I'd say five, but I mean, you are
hoofing it.

Brett (39:36):
That's a long time, it's like walking through a sauna.

Dustin (39:38):
Yeah, you know, if you done a hot yoga class, imagine a
60 pound pack with long pants,long shirt.
Yeah, uh, going, but uh, brutal, yeah.
But what I recognize is everystep wasn't flat and I was
having to grip with my toes andI was stepping on all these
rocks and, like you know, theweight that I was supporting was
in a weird way and my plantarfasciitis completely went away
rather than getting worse reallyyeah, I think I was

(40:00):
strengthening all the rightmuscles through my hips, through
through my knees, through myankles, through my feet.
That's crazy.
And actually my plantar fasciajust like got better, which is,
you know, insane.

Brett (40:08):
Yeah, that is pretty cool .

Dustin (40:09):
So super refreshing both for your mind, super refreshing
for your body.
You feel like you're doing adetox because you're sweating
out a gallon a day.
I don't know the actual verypresent and you're kind of like,
whatever's happening in theworld, I just have to be here.
Yeah, you know it's, therecould be things happening.
I can't worry about it.

(40:30):
My worry does nothing.
So I'm going to worry aboutsetting up my, my hammock.

Brett (40:35):
I'm going to worry about getting firewood.
Yeah, that is awesome, likeknow um.
I bet it also like helps youget closer to the people that
you're with too oh, it's such abonding experience like um, I'm
not sure if you've ever heard ofthe band of brothers yeah, I
just watched that show.

Dustin (40:50):
I just watched it like three weeks ago, actually so
good, it's like one of myfavorites.

Brett (40:54):
But, like, I think obviously this is a different
example than war.
But like you know this group ofmen, they hate each other and
then eventually they becomebrothers.
Um, and it's because they gothrough hard things together and
they're like relying on oneanother.
I feel like that would be thesame exact thing.
Yeah, in a situation like this,where it's like, hey, you're
struggling over there, hey, I'mgonna go get you some food or
whatever, it is like you guysjust take care of each other

(41:17):
yeah, you do.

Dustin (41:18):
Um, obviously, like you said, not nearly as severe, but
the concept still applies andright you're up through the
highs and the lows, like there'sdefinitely a few times where,
um, one of the girls she kind ofhad like it was a low level,
kind of like asthma attack orwhatever, nothing crazy.
She had her inhaler, but youknow it's like, hey, like I'll
get you water, you know, or liketake a break.
Um.
And then I remember there's onehike where I got to the end of

(41:38):
the day and I was like I'mactually done, like've I've been
an ultra marathon runner andstuff and it's tough.
But when you get to the endit's like, oh, I need a breather
.
I could go more if I wanted to.

Brett (41:47):
Yeah.

Dustin (41:48):
On this day I was like I , I'm literally, I'm just done.
Yeah, so you're.
you're with each other for thelows, but then you're also there
for the highs Um's like itsucks for him in the moment, um,
but then you're just laughingabout it so hard and you end the

(42:09):
trip with just these, likememories that are so unique, so
real that, yeah, whenever we seeeach other, like remember that
time that anders tackled, thatuh came in.
Remember when we did see the uh, we caught an electric eel, or
when we saw the piranha we sawstingrays.
I remember we were like takinga bath and we realized next to

(42:30):
you was a stingray, like we havethat.
Um, it's crazy, yeah, and it'sjust you're like, you just belly
laugh yeah, that is awesomeyeah, it's something that can't
be replicated other than throughthrough, going through it
together and through it.

Brett (42:42):
Yeah, getting after it together.
That's so cool, man, but um,you just brushed over that
you're an ultra marathoner, bythe way.

Dustin (42:50):
Kind of Um, it wasn't a sanctioned run, I've only done
one is a 50 K, which is like theminimum threshold I'd done.
I just started running and thenI was like, okay, I'm gonna do
a half marathon just by myself.
And then next week I was I'mgonna do it again.
And then I took a weekend off,did it, and then the weekend
after that I was like I'm goingto train it actually for a
marathon.
And then the night before Istayed out a little bit too late

(43:12):
and didn't get a good night'ssleep have a drink or two.
And I was like I woke up thenext morning feeling kind of
like I'm get away from me, soI'm gonna go for a long run.
And then I just kept going andthen I just like, all right, I'm
gonna not stop till I hit 31miles really dang man terrible
decision I like.
Just I couldn't walk right thenext day like I work up to that,
don't just be like I'm gonna doit today, so did it brutal.

Brett (43:34):
Uh, yeah, happy I did it, but um my joints are still
feeling it yeah, I mean that'sawesome, though I I do that, so
that's why I so that's why Iasked but what's like your ultra
marathon?
I mean my first one was lastyear in Arizona in the desert,
in July.

Dustin (43:51):
Oh, geez yeah, so that was rough but it was a.

Brett (43:53):
It was a 50 K cause I just wanted to do it.
And, um, that one was coolbecause I ran it for my friend
who was going through stage fourcolon cancer at the time um,
and I wanted to quit.
So many times I was like Ican't yeah I'm running it for
him.
I can't quit yep um, and then,like the first 15 miles, I would
throw up every like half mileor so yikes, so half mile.

(44:16):
It was rough like oh geez um,and it was a seven mile loop,
and so the first time I getthrough I was like, yeah, I'm
doing okay.
And then I like ran back to myaid station.
I was like I need some stuff,yeah, um, and they were all
worried about me and so I wouldbe like stop, yeah, but anyways
it got through it, but um, yeah,I'm running in the canyon lands
this year cool, um, and then,50k nice and then we're doing my

(44:38):
brother and I are doing a 50miler in sedona next year, but,
um, yeah, just trying to do it.
And then, duluth, minnesota,have a marathon next month, um,
you're hooked, I'm hooked, yeah,I'm hooked.
But that's like and when you'retalking about um, you know
being so present, like you'refocused on water, you're focused
on food and you're focused on,like, the next step and, yeah,

(44:59):
how your feet feel, it's likeit's interesting because I have
a lot of those same thoughts,like when I am running.
It's like you have to be in themoment, you have to be right
there, yep, um, and it is kindof nice because it's like
there's nothing else goingthrough your head right and so,
um, that's kind of my escape islike running, in a sense.
But, um, yeah, I, I want to goback to you.

(45:21):
This isn't about ultra marathonstuff.
We can talk about this, this atwork.
That mentality does apply tosurvival too.

Dustin (45:26):
I mean having the right gear, having the right
techniques, everything like thatthat's so important to survival
.
If you don't have a machete inthe jungle, it's not going to
work.
But the next, or maybe even themost important thing is the
psychology of it.
When we had our meetings withIan, we stacked up some cans.
He's like here's the base.

(45:47):
I made a little pyramid.
He's like the base is yourpsychology.
It is like how do you deal withevery day, how do you want to
survive?
That's the number one thing.

Brett (45:50):
Did he give you any tips for that?
Like, when you're struggling,here's what you do.

Dustin (45:54):
No, not really, because he's just a human that operates
on a different level.
I've met some very insanepeople in my day and I still
feel like I'm.
I relate to them more than Idon't.
Ian was the one person where Iwas like nope, I'm not, I'm not
cuffing the same cloth.
I was like and this includes,you know, people who have been
on a loan, this includes, youknow, ian is the one person

(46:15):
where I was like I could spendan entire lifetime training and
like hardening my mental state.
I just he's just a differentbeast, so smart, so tuned in, so
tough, just so like yeah,anyways, uh, so he would give
you some advice, but like Idon't know, he was talking about
how one of the soldiers in hisplatoon or you know unit, got

(46:36):
shot in the neck and was likespewing blood.
He's like I put my knee intohis, uh, bleeding neck and saved
his life, and it was a greatday you can just tell it doesn't
phase him that much.
There was a problem I fixed.
The problem Day is good.
I had to do it.

Brett (46:51):
That's insane.

Dustin (46:52):
He gave some tips, but it was also a different level.

Brett (46:56):
What about you when it's tough and it probably rains a
bunch in the Amazon and you'rewet and you're tired and you
have no food?
What do you tell yourself tokeep going?

Dustin (47:06):
I think, um, I think of that quote.
I forget where I heard it, butit was like there is no wall,
just this brick.
It's like if you're laying downbricks to build a wall, it's
like, don't worry about, oh, no,I'm cold.
Then what's going to happen inthis many days of all?
Just be like I am cold, but I'mcold.

(47:26):
Yeah, that's a feeling.
I'm alive.
Yeah, you kind of just focus onthe moment that you're in, like
you're saying, when you'rerunning, just being present.
I think that's a big one.
Um, and sometimes too, justtrying to like phrase it as a
challenge where I didn't think Icould survive on the amazon and
then I did so.
Then the next time I'm in asituation where I don't think I
can do it, I I'm like, well,last time I thought I couldn't
do something, I did it and I hadstill a lot left in the tank.

(47:47):
You know as as tough as itcould be and I was as depleted
as I'd ever been, but I stillhiked that last bit to the
jungle with a pack on and thisand that that didn't kill me.
So kind of having thoseexperiences to draw upon and say
, yeah, I'll get through thisand now the next thing's not
going to be as tough.

Brett (48:03):
Yeah, that's such a good mindset.
Yeah, I love that.
And it's like, yeah, I meanI've coached a few people and
like, walking them through that,like I always remember this
Seven miles for some reason, isalways like oof, like it turns
people off from like whenthey're trying to start running,
they're like I don't know, thatdistance seems like a lot, I

(48:24):
don't know.

Dustin (48:24):
More than double the 5K yeah.

Brett (48:27):
But every time they always finish it and they're
like that was crazy, I did it, Ididn't think I could.
And I'm like, yeah, so justwait until you hit 13 and then
keep going up and it just, andlike it just shows that you just
don't know your limits.
No, and I always tell my wifethis because she's like what
distance are you going to stoprunning?

(48:48):
I'm like I don't know, Like Ijust want to find what my limit
is and see if I can reach itRight.
And luckily that day hasn'tcome.
But it's like I want to.
I'm just curious, like I wantto see what I can do.

Dustin (49:00):
Yeah.

Brett (49:08):
And it's for you, you know like what is the distance?

Dustin (49:09):
it's probably for you it's like it's less about some
numerical goal and more aboutlike, how do I get into that?

Brett (49:11):
moment.
Yeah, okay, if like wheneverthat moment stops being there.
Yeah, and I mean running for mehas become a mental game more
than it has like oh yeah, whatian was saying like it very much
is the psychology.
Yeah, it needs to be the base.
Take that next step so I lovethat.

Dustin (49:22):
That's huge.
That's huge.
Don't worry about the marathon,worry about the next step,
don't worry about the wall,worry about the next brick.

Brett (49:27):
I love that.
That's so good.
Yeah, I'm going to put that asa quote on this one.
Cool the description.
But um, you went to thePhilippines recently.
Right, I did.
How?

Dustin (49:36):
was that.
It was great.
It was another survival esqueuh thing.
So, uh, yeah, it was cool.
We went to an uninhabiteddesert Island, just our group,
some people did survival, somedidn't.
Um, but we learned a bunch andit was a beautiful jungle Island
that you have beautiful junglethat spills onto the white sand
beach, that then spills into theclear water, which then becomes

(49:58):
a beautiful reef, and we had itall to ourselves.
That's crazy, fantastic all toourselves.

Brett (50:03):
That's crazy, fantastic.
Holy cow, what's on?
Is there like coconuts on theisland and things like that?
Yeah there's coconuts, you guysare chopping coconuts and
drinking them on the sand.

Dustin (50:09):
There's coconuts um, yeah, that's like that we call
the tree of life.
There you can, you can open itup.
There's, um, if you have agreen coconut, you can drink
that water pretty much as muchas you want.
Yeah, there's brown.
There's a little more oil inthat, so you can't do it as much
.
The the next phase is when itkind of starts to grow and if
you bring that up, there's likea little cake in there, so it's
like a little carbohydrate cake.
But there's coconuts.
There's fish, there's a I thinkit's sea parsley.

(50:32):
I might be mispronouncing that,but kind, of like a little
edamame shell that's got somebeans in it.
Can't have a ton of those, butyou can have some not much kind
of depends on the season, butthat's so cool, man.
Yeah, there's some stuff outthere we.
We brought though our own foodfor this yeah, unless you're
doing a survival challengesimilar to the last one camping
and then survival yeah, man,that's cool.

Brett (50:52):
Do you have any trips coming up like any planned?

Dustin (50:55):
chilling for now.

Brett (50:56):
I'm getting married okay, from now so uh, yeah, uh.

Dustin (50:59):
Melanie, my fiancee is also a hardcore badass and she
uh came with me to the lastAmazon expedition.

Brett (51:06):
She goes with you.

Dustin (51:06):
Oh, yeah, yeah she she didn't want to do the survival
phase this time, which I cantotally get.
Yeah, but yeah, hiking.
She was right there every stepof the way when I was done
hiking and like huh she was like, all right, I'll set up camp.
She was still having energy in.
Her is looking at doing um uhlike wedding and then honeymoon
plan which will probablyactually take a little bit easy
on the go survival.

Brett (51:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Dustin (51:28):
So, um, yeah, nothing too crazy we.
We've kicked around the idea ofMongolia or like um after that
and like doing some horsebackriding and stuff it'd be camping
and like living with the, thetribes out there and yurts, but
it's much more um comfortable.
Yeah, true survival would belike a in between a hard camping

(51:50):
trip and not quite survival.

Brett (51:50):
Yeah, that's, yeah.
Would you ever go up to like?

Dustin (51:51):
alaska.
Oh, I'd love to yeah really Iwant to do arctic survival um at
some point, if I can.
Some crazy stuff up there yeah,that's why you got to do it.

Brett (52:00):
That's why you got to do it, man you got to brace the
elements, um, but yeah, likethat, like I was telling you
about the outdoor boys, he'sposted videos where he's in
negative 20 degrees in a hottent and there's just nothing
around him.
Yeah, so he has to, like, packin his food and everything for
that, but he's melting snow toget the water, and just so

(52:20):
interesting, and I don't know.
I've always been fascinatedwith the outdoors.
Like, yeah, um, should do oneof these trips.
I'd, I'd love it honestly.

Dustin (52:29):
I would love it.
I think you like it.

Brett (52:30):
I'll let you know what the next one is yeah and um, are
they always out of the country?
Uh?

Dustin (52:35):
no, actually.
So, uh, desert island survivalthat's what I did this survival
trip with, uh in the philippines, um, we are actually trying to
find a good island, um, that is,that is in the U?
S, to do like a survival whiteoh, wow, um.
So we're, we're looking around.
It's a little bit moredifficult because we we have
what we call, like theGoldilocks zone not too hot, not
too cold, um, for these islandsthat are, uh, the main islands,

(52:57):
we have one, yeah, uh.
The ones I've not done isIndonesia, um, and the Maldives,
and then also French Polynesiahere and there.
That sure doesn't run, but hasto be an Island that is
beautiful and feels remote, butalso close enough that if you do
need a to evacuate, you can.
It has enough resources on it,like coconuts and things like

(53:20):
that Um, but like that um, butthen also doesn't have like pit
vipers or anything too dangerous.
So you have to find the rightisland.
It wouldn't be exactly that inthe states, but there's just so
many uh islands that are eithersuper, super, super expensive or
, you know, like pretty muchlike a jet ski dock and yeah,
it's like, okay, you're notreally camping, so we are
looking at that, it'd probablybe a short like a four-day trip
or something.

(53:40):
If we could get it up andrunning and it'd be more of like
an intro.
Let's learn bushcraft.
Uh, you can sleep under thestars if you want, but um, yeah,
hopefully in the us at somepoint here soon.
Yeah, I would love it yeah,I'll let you know.

Brett (53:51):
But I mean, I grew up going to the sierras.
Like my family loves the highsierras and those are great.
My uncle he like loves it somuch, him and his uncle.
So my great uncle, they boughta decommissioned tungsten mine
in bishop california, whoa um,just because like it's right in
in the mountains, cool, um, andI think they got it for like a

(54:11):
killer price and are they gonnastill do mining stuff or just
like oh, I don't think they'remine, I think they're trying to?
turn into a hydro plant actually, um, because there's so much
water coming out of the mountainlike that they want to sell it
to la.
But, um, I don't know, man,just going up there and being
like connected to nature andjust it's just something else.
So, like, what you do isamazing, it's been amazing.

Dustin (54:32):
It's been awesome.
If you're on the cusp like,should I, should I not do it?

Brett (54:36):
Yeah.

Dustin (54:36):
Push yourself a little over the edge and, worst case,
you go.
Yeah, that sucks, not for meyou know, but you're not gonna
regret it.
You're gonna come back with somany stories yeah yeah, it's,
it's fantastic.

Brett (54:46):
I mean um, like a motto that my wife and I embody from
her dad actually is you can dohard things yeah and um, like we
run a marathon or a halfmarathon every year in his honor
and like get as many people aswe can to come and join this
thing.
Um, and that's the theme islike you can can always do hard
things Right, and um, somethinglike that.
It's like, yeah, I mean,everything is in in life is hard

(55:08):
, like choose your heart Right,and it's much better to to
choose the adversity yourselfthan to have life do it for you.
And so I don't know.
I think there's so many lessonsto be learned in that, and so
I'm serious, you got to keep mein in.
I will check.

Dustin (55:22):
I would love it I think, uh, we were saying like
choosing the hard stuff.
There's another quote that Ilove big quote guy, yeah hey, me
too yeah, it says, uh, forthose who do difficult things,
life will be easy, for those whodo easy things, life will be
difficult.
I'm like that's like a nicelittle paradox there and I think
it makes a lot of sense I dotoo you do the survival, you do
the ultra marathon and then,when you're in a pinch in life,

(55:43):
you know, or something like that, or you yeah the hike is going
longer than you thought.
You're like, yeah, it sucks, butit's not.
It's easy because I've done somany hard things.

Brett (55:51):
Right, it's such an important mindset to have, yeah,
like it bleeds into every partof your life, like it does, I'm
sure, same for me with running.
Like I take the lessons that Ilearn, and like you have good
runs, you have bad runs, and youhave good days at work and you
have bad days at work, and likeyou just got to push through and
keep your eyes focused on thenext thing.

Dustin (56:11):
Like you said, the next step, yep like if I got a bad
night's sleep.
I'm like I can't go to schooltomorrow.
I'll be so tired now I'm likedude, I didn't sleep for two
days on the amazon survivalright I'll get through the day
like whatever.

Brett (56:21):
Yeah, like yesterday.
I don't want to stare at excelright now, but but yeah,
whatever it gets, it get get youthrough, yeah, but man, yeah
any other stories you want toshare or anything else um, I
mean, I guess, some otherhighlights.

Dustin (56:33):
I did the the panama survival that was.

Brett (56:36):
Oh yeah, we didn't even talk about panama yeah, panama,
and then tonga.

Dustin (56:39):
Um, the amazon's the true highlights.
That's like where you're reallypushing yourself.
Panama did uh, island survivalthrough desert island survival.
Go look them up, they'refantastic.
Uh, it's a true highlight.
So that's where you're reallypushing yourself.
Panama did Island Survivalthrough Desert Island Survival.
Go look them up, they'refantastic.
It's a company founded by myfriend, tom Williams.
He was on the show alone in theUK.

Brett (56:53):
Really yeah, he won, no way yeah the UK.

Dustin (56:55):
He didn't have to last quite as long, just people gave
up quicker there.
It's the first season there theBrits People gave up quicker
there.
It's the first season there,but he won it pretty handedly.
He's a great guy, awesomecompany he set up.
He really is like here's how tohave a crazy adventure while

(57:15):
also keeping it beautiful andfun, anyway.
So he founded this company andI went with him to Panama.
He reached out to me.
My name was in the group ofsurvivors.
It's a very small, uh, group ofpeople.

Brett (57:28):
Um so, uh, you know it's, it's not many people out there
trying to just survive,willingly getting rid of
everything and you knowembracing uh uncomfortable
things, but anyway.

Dustin (57:37):
So he got my information reached out, so he's doing a
trip, so I went with him.
It was 10 people on the islandplus two survival instructors,
him plus lucas miller.
Lucas miller was on season oneof the us um alone.
He's the guy really.
He built the boat.
He made likea little guitar.
So if you've ever seen seasonone, he was on there I'll have
to watch it after this.
Yeah, yeah, he's, he's awesome,he knows his bushcraft so well.

(57:57):
But, um, yeah, we went to thatisland six days of training and
four days of survival.
I did it with my two friendswho I did jungle survival with,
who I met out there, yeah, um.
So then we did it as a group ofthree for four days.
We were his first ever group tonot use any of the resources.

Brett (58:11):
He gives you a little bit of calories.
He gives you a little bit ofwater yeah nope um that's gotta
make you feel good yeah, I did.

Dustin (58:17):
That's another thing where you're like I want some
water.
It's not coconuts.
I've been slightly dehydratedfor four days, but then when you
go back, you hop on that boatand he's like here's water,
here's chocolate, let's go get aburger.
You know, tonight we're havingpizza.

Brett (58:29):
You're just like hell yes , yeah, I mean, it's the hunger
is the best sauce.

Dustin (58:33):
So like that pizza you're eating is like the best
thing ever and he was, so it'sgotta be the best.
Yeah, did that trip.
That was awesome, and then Iwent out to um, probably like a
year and a half after that, uhwent with two youtubers with
desert on survival.
Um, really, yeah, they're namedkara and nate.
Um, care, with a k, they're allone word.
Look them up, they're huge.
They have like four millionsubscribers.
Dang, they're awesome.

(58:54):
You get on the island.
They're working harder thananyone.
Everything you see in theirvideos they are truly doing
that's awesome.
I mean, there is a time wherewe're setting up the group
shelter right, let's go for likea sunset hike and nate was like
no, I'm gonna hang back andfinish up the shelter.
I've seen so many.
You guys go, have fun.
I was like dang, like he's likehe's legit, yeah, so it's
awesome going with them.
They, uh, I did the panama trip.

(59:15):
They came like a week after us,oh, wow they did the panama trip
, and then I was like, oh,that's cool, we got the
youtubers.
And then the next time he waslike, hey, like you want to come
do some photography andvideography and just help out.
So went out to tonga, um, andthen was with them when they did
their video.
Yeah, I'm in the, I'm not inthe video, I'm just in the
background.
But uh, then I did two nightssolo, oh, wow, yeah, doing uh on

(59:35):
tonga, which, if you're goingto survive anywhere, surviving
tonga, really it's.
We called it the garden of eden, it was like coconut like.
Like when you're in Panamagetting the coconuts down.
The trees are tall, it's toughto get them down.
There were so many coconuts.
This place was so unfished thatI was just like this has got to
fish.

Brett (59:54):
Really, you're just having a great time.
This is amazing.
It's a fishing trip now.

Dustin (59:58):
The highs were like 72 and the lows were 68.
So I was like great.
It like 72 and the lows were 68, so I was like great it's
temperature.
Yeah, you're perfect, yeah, so,uh, it was.
It was awesome and it was sobeautiful.
We watched humpback whalesjumping in the distance no way
the most highest concentrationof humpback whales.
You can also legally swim withthem if you're going to like a
licensed guide.
So the guy who rescued us fromour island on the way back he

(01:00:19):
was like let's go find somehumpback whales.
We swam with humpback whales.
What's that like?
Is it scary?
It's, it's humbling.
I mean I was looking at there'sa mother and a calf.
Yeah, the calf is swimmingaround being like look at me,
look at my flippers, like justyou know, kind of swimming at
you and swerving and then doingbarrel rolls and the calf is
probably bigger than you oh,like the size of like a school
bus.

(01:00:39):
And then, uh, the mother is justhuge.
And you're in the most pristine, crystal clear water you could
possibly imagine and you'relooking at this humpback whale
and you're like I can't reallysee the tail because it's that
deep down.
So that wasn't, that's insane.
Yeah, so tonga, survival waspretty easy.
I mean, it's still very tough,but pretty easy, yeah any
survival would be hard, yeah,yeah and then, um, the humpback

(01:01:01):
whales, and then they had these.
They call them foxes, like thesefruit bats that fly around.
They use their eyesight, notecholocation oh really, yes,
they're flying in the day,interesting, and they're like
the biggest one they can get to,like five feet wingspan Now
that's a big one, but I wouldsay plenty of three to four and
a half foot, and they have theseorange heads.
So I just remember there was aday where I was watching the
sunset by myself and I'm on thisbeautiful pristine beach by

(01:01:25):
myself, no boats, no, nothing inthe distance, and I can see
humpback whales jumping, andthen behind me are these giant
foxes flying around oh my andthat was one of the most magical
moments you could possiblythat's amazing

Brett (01:01:37):
yeah, that was really incredible how could you not
like remember that for the restof your life?
Like seriously like thehummingbirds and the amazon, and
yeah, it's moments like thatlike that is amazing it's, it's
um.
Yeah, I feel very normal peopledon't get that stuff.

Dustin (01:01:52):
They don't but they can.
They can.
It's just a simple choice ofsaying I'm gonna do it.
Yeah, that's true.
Who are like how do you do this?
I'm like I don't have anysecrets, I'm not special I'm
actually trying to get you tocome out.

Brett (01:02:02):
Yeah, exactly, yeah exactly Then.

Dustin (01:02:04):
a lot of my friends came to Philippines one.
I made that trip a little biteasier, but it's like you just
have to make the decision to go.
It's going to hurt your bankaccount a little bit, you're
going to have to stop eating outfor a little bit, you're going
to have to train a little bit.
But there's these tiny littlesacrifices add up to these
incredible life experiences.
Life experiences, and not onlyis that experience awesome now,

(01:02:25):
it unlocks your perspective forgreater experiences.
If I hadn't done that amazontrip, I'm probably not doing
these island trips.
I'm not doing that first islandtrip.
I'm not hanging out with thesereally awesome youtubers on the
second one I'm not hanging outwith them on that.
I'm not bringing my friends tothe philippines, so it's like
right, just allow yourself tounlock your potential.

Brett (01:02:37):
That's so cool, man.
I love that.
Yeah, and it really is likethere's so much out there for
everyone, and it doesn't have tobe like survival or running or
anything.

Dustin (01:02:45):
It's just like if you have a desire to do something,
follow your passion in that theyoutube video so I'm making the
next one for the philippinesyeah um, and yeah, I've actually
found that I really enjoyed theart of storytelling.
Like you look at a scene likehow do I film it, how do I
capture it then, how do I likecondense it down so an audience
can get it?
Um, so I'm actually prettyproud of my first one.
It's a 47 minute video, but Ithink, it came out pretty well.

(01:03:05):
I spent hours doing that.
Editing is a beast on its ownit's a beast so and I was like,
if I'm trying to do thisexpedition to make ian proud, I
need to make a video to make himproud.
Yeah, now, that being said,he'd be like you're making a
youtube video, dude, really, butbecause he's like one of those
guys yeah but, uh no, I I had alot of fun.
So I'm making a philippines one,um, and hopefully that'll be

(01:03:28):
out in the next month or two.
We'll kind of see how it goes.
Um, that's what I'm gonnaremind me.
Your youtube channel name it'sone wild path.
Or if you just look up my namefun fact I'm the only dustin
illner in the world.
Are you serious?
There's only like three to fourhundred illness in the world
with ill gner.
So there's only like three to400 illness in the world with
ILL GNER.
So if you look up my name,you'll find me.
All right, there we go.
But yeah, the video's up.

(01:03:49):
Um, I've got like 15subscribers.
So, hey, there we go.
Yeah, but it's, it's cool, it'sfun.
Um, and another one will becoming out soon.

Brett (01:03:57):
Well, I'll definitely put the link in this video
description so people will watchit, because what you're talking
about just sounds amazing.
I want to learn about it moreso and, yeah, keep me posted on
any future ones.
But um, it's been great havingyou, man it's been awesome and
it's crazy because, like you,have all these stories and you
sit right behind me at work soit's like, yeah, I would never
know.

Dustin (01:04:17):
That's just the guy who's staring at excel, or you
know, talking to a brand abouttheir product margin and I'm
over there looking at randomdata points, so same thing.

Brett (01:04:25):
But, um, yeah, man, it's been so fun talking to you and
hearing your experiences andeverything.
So genuinely appreciate youcoming on.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me, of course, man, and, um, yeah, everyone
else out there appreciate youguys tuning in and listening and
, as always, keep getting afterit.
Keep getting after it.
Dude, that was awesome.
Cool man, that was fun.
That was fun.

(01:04:45):
That was fun.

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127 - Dustin Illgner - Amazon Expeditions and Stories of Surviving Mother Nature

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}127 - Dustin Illgner - Amazon Expeditions and Stories of Surviving Mother Nature