March 1, 2023 • 23 mins
John Schmeelk sits down with Charlie Weis, former Giants coach and Co-host of the “Airing It Out” show on Sirius XM NFL Radio, to talk about the importance of the NFL combine, coaching young players, and Daniel Jones’ improvement in the 2022 season. Audio Chapters: :00 - Importance of the NFL Combine 4:45 - Offensive stand outs 8:29 - Wide receiver class 12:51 - Getting separation as a receiver 19:07 - Daniel Jones’ progression
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants Huttle on giants
dot Com. There we go on the Giants part of
the Giants podcast Network. Welcome to another episode of the
Giant Hubtle podcast, all brought to you by psc ANDNG
Energy Efficiency For game time and anytime, visit PSEG dot
com slash Giants for discounts, rebates and home energy assessments.
(00:20):
John Schmalk pulled Tatino with you live in Indianapolis for
the NFL Combine, and now we're joined by a man
that's been coaching in the NFL for a very long time,
former offensive coordinator and Super Bowl champion for the New
York Football Giants. He is Charlie Weiss, who's now host
on the Morning Drive on Sirius x D channel channel.
(00:42):
You can hear him with the voice of the Giants
Bob pop Up on Sirius XM, so make sure you
go check that out. And Charlie a lot to talk
about here at the combines. So let's kind of start
very broadly here. As a coach who understands offensive football
as well as anyone, what's the important stuff for you
when you came out of here to the combine looking
at players and the stuff that you really took out
(01:02):
of it as a coach that made it important to you. Well,
the interviews, you know, because I don't need to go
watch a kid work out in shorts to sit there
and tell me too much. I'd rather watch game tape
that as a as a coach, that's where you're going
to learn about the player. I'm not going to watch
a quarterback throw routes with some guys that they don't
play with and make a determination whoa why I really
(01:25):
like this guy or don't like this guy. But you
get to know them more and I think that's invaluable.
The one difference between all of us and the guys
that go interview the players is they know them. We
know of them, we don't know them. And I think
that there's a lot too that the inner workings of
a of a of a player as a person is
(01:49):
characters intelligence. Those are the type of things you can
get here at the Combine. Okay, you just made my
first question for me, Charlie, because I'm going to ask you,
maybe who were two of the three most interesting interviews
you've done at the Combine And if it's so interesting
that you don't want to tell us their name. That's okay,
but I've got to ask that now that you opened
(02:09):
up that can worm. Okay, I'll give you a pro
and a con. And with the pro, i'll give the name.
With a con, I won't give the name. So here's
a pro, Antoine randol ll remember the name an so
At RANDOLLL. So he walks into our meeting room at
the Combine at the old train station when they had
at the train station. He comes in for his fifteen minute,
(02:33):
fifteen minute interview and we hand him a hat, which
was a Super Bowl champion hat. So he gets the
hat and he goes, Now that's what I'm talking about.
That that's how the interview starts. Now here's a guy
who is a quarterback at IU that we were going
to convert to a wide receiver. But like right off
(02:54):
the bat, he won the room. He took over the room.
And how many these guys you think take over the
room in fifteen minutes. None of them. So he was
he was an exception to that rule on a negative one.
I was meeting with a tight end and I'll leave
the school out of this and I'll leave the player
(03:16):
out of this. But he had gotten thrown out of
school that year for setting off a multough cocktail in
his dorm. What seriously, So he's at he's at the time.
SU's that. Yeah, SU's at the combine. So I said something, So,
tell me, did you get thrown out of school? You know,
(03:38):
I asked him that question. He goes, yeah, I did.
And I said, how would you even know that? How
would you even know how to make one? And he goes,
what would you like to know? And I said I So,
I said yeah, sure. So then he starts to legitimately
answer that question, tell me how you make a bomb?
(04:00):
And I said, time out, time out. I don't really
want to know. I don't really want to know. So
I kind of wrapped up the interview. And you already
said he's off our board. You know. I don't know
about other teams, but we're certainly not taking And the
kid ended up getting drafted, drafted in the fifth round
and the draft and ended up playing in the league
for a little while. I would be like, why do
(04:22):
you think it was a good idea to light up him? Intelligence?
Amazing again, my new jersey and upbringing. I said, well,
tell me how you do this? Sarcastically figuring he wasn't
gonna tell me, and there he starts telling me how
you do it is a timeout. I really don't need
to know. I really don't want to know. Go ahead,
(04:42):
and you know we wrapped it up and we moved on.
So how deep have you, you know, done your dive
into some of these prospects, especially on you know, the
offensive side of the bull quarterbacks, receivers out. Yeah, I've
spent more time on the quarterbacks so far. I'm always
ahead on the quarterbacks and the receivers. I was just
having this conversation a couple of minutes ago before I
came over here, because I was going over you know,
(05:06):
a half dozen of them or so that you know
that everyone wants to talk about. I said, what people
don't factor in is not only how good the players
are and would they fit your system, but the other
thing they don't factor in is how ready are they
(05:30):
to play. So if you're going to take a guy
in the first round of the draft relatively high in
today's world, that means he's going to play as quickly
as you could play. He might not start right off
the bat, but he's going to play relatively quickly. So
which guys are playing in systems that prepare a guy
(05:54):
like an NFL player. So I take Bryce Young for example,
Billy O'Brien was as offensive coordinator. Nick Saban was his
head coach. Okay, so forget about everything else. We talked
about his size, we you know, we talked about injury concerns,
like how many guys in the draft have an NFL
(06:16):
offensive coordinator that was your coordinator and Nick Saban is
your head coach. One. So to me, when I'm looking
at all those quarterbacks, there's him and then there's the rest.
You know. So now that doesn't mean those other guys
aren't good, But I mean most of those guys stood
at the line of scrimmage and the offensive coordinator called
(06:38):
to play everyone at the side. Everyone's looking at him.
So they got him line, they looked over, got helped
get everyone lined up. Then what do you want me
to play? Or what do you want me to do? Now?
Some of them had a check off plays, you know,
more than others. But a lot of these guys, when
you bring them in, you put them in a huddle,
it's the first time they were in the huddle, sure,
(06:59):
or the first time you put them under center. They
were never under center. So you know, I think that
if you're going to take a guy early in the draft,
you know you don't want to be spending a lot
of time just teach him how to call playing that
you want them to be able to run the whole operation.
So for you, we're a big red flag at Anthony Richardson,
then no, I'm just no, I'm saying for me, it's
(07:20):
not a red flag. It's just not a guy that
I would want to take. Understand, I got you. But
but Charlie, from a pro coach's perspective, because in Banks
by the way, La Carl Banks likes to call those
guys to just add water guys, by the way, you
who have that old pro system in style already ingrained
in him. But for a pro coach who's sitting down
in one of these interviews and he knows it's not
(07:41):
a just add water player, knowing that there's not a
lot of patience these days and coaches can get fired
very quickly, what is the pro coach's mentality when talking
to a player like that, knowing he's going to have
to be patient and have to give that guy a
lot of time. It depends on the head coach's job status.
I hate to be honest, but it does answer at
(08:03):
the head. You know, you take a team that the
head coach's job sadist is in question. You want to
take a risk on a guy like that because you
might not be there. You might you might be getting
you might be training them for somebody else. Okay, Now,
if you have good your job saddus is secure. So
he's you're taking somebody like that, sure, because now you
(08:25):
could groom him to be the guy rather than just
have to throw him in there. How about wide receivers? Um,
we see you talk about quarterbacks not coming from pro systems, right.
I look at two wide receivers in this draft. You know,
Jalen Hiltt comes from Tennessee where there's so much space
with the way they spread the field with the hashes
and just good. He's really good. But you know he
(08:46):
doesn't run the full route tree and he's kind of
a speA guy than you, Quentin Johnson. You know the
history of big toll wide receivers is not awesome, and
he's getting more of a goal route stock he's really
good at. Isn't why I'm asking a question, right, So
they're really good. So if you're a team, how much
do you trust your staff and your wide receivers coach
to turn these guys that are really good into NFL
(09:08):
wide receivers that can do everything you need them to do?
And do you have to consider that a process? So
maybe you only use them what they're good at early
and then you expand them as they go along. All right, well,
I'll give you two parts of that question. Number one,
those Ohio state wide receivers that played in the league
last year, those two rookie wide RESI pretty good. That's
the same thing for them, and how they do They're
(09:31):
only the best two wide receivers the rookie class in
the league, so you know, so that's that refutes that argument.
On the other hand, I remember going to a workout
from this guy by the name of Terrell Owens. There
was a University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, and I was
there for his workout, and who was about seventeen of
us there for this workout because it was only gonna
(09:52):
be one workout and you weren't going back there for
another workout. And I went there for the workout and
he couldn't run any routes. I mean, he was a big,
strong guy who's athletic. He could do everything. He couldn't
run around. How did that work out? I think pretty good.
So I mean, so I'm showing you both sides of defense.
You can't have preconceived notion. If it guy's got got
(10:14):
very good athletic skills. It goes back to trace you
can figure out, you can figure out how to move
forward with them. Okay, supplemental question to that, we all
know the Giants need help in the wide receiver room.
They were hurt a lot last year. They certainly need
some big play guys, Charlie. We were told by Joe Shane,
(10:34):
the general manager, and his media availability yesterday that separation
is the number one quality that he wants to see
in a wide receiver and basically the rest of it
isn't as important because Brian Dable will find out how
to use a guy who can get separation. From your
perspective as a guy who was an offensive coordinator, how
would you try to construct the rest of this Giant's
(10:56):
wide receiver room knowing that Wandale Robinson and Isaiah Hodgens
or at least going to be part of it. Well,
there's two different ways of getting separation. One way of
getting separation is just you're you're faster or you're more
athletic than the guy you're going against. The other way
is using your physicality. So there's two different styles that
(11:16):
you were talking about here. I remember when we went
to the Jets. You know, we went to the Jets
and Keishaan Johnson had just had his rookie year and
there was a lot of plays when I watched from
his first year where he was it's like glue. So
here's a big, physical, strong guy that we added a
few things to his repertoire to using his physicality to
(11:40):
help create separation. So creating separation is one issue, because
there's more than one way to get separation. So now
assuming that whether it's a big physical guy getting separation
or whether it's a really athletic guy, you know, getting separation,
either one of those guys, as long as you have
(12:01):
a guy that you know can can get off get
off the you know, can create some open space for
the quarterback. The quarterbacks in the NFL don't need as
big open spaces as those kids in college too, you know.
And how many times do we watch games where you
say that's a small window. That's a small window. Well,
those quarter gap backs are getting paid a lot of
(12:22):
money to throw the ball into those small windows. So
I think you'll have plenty opportunity. And the great thing
about the draft is you can take really good ones
early in the draft, but you could still find really
good ones as the draft matriculates. You still can find
guys to can that fit that bill. And I think
if you go into the draft knowing that that's one
(12:43):
area you want to help yourself, you'll be able to
help yourself because there's plenty of options. Sometimes you run
out of candidates, receivers usually not one of them. Okay,
let me ask you this because you just mentioned about
the kinds of separation or the styles that you can
used to get it. Speed. Guys, they got the speed.
But in terms of how easy is it to coach
separation to a physical guy like you just mentioned Keyshawn Johnson,
(13:06):
how hard is that to do? Well, it's really not
that hard to do. No, not that hard to how
to teach them how to get how to get open
if that's what you're asking, I mean, I'm not talking
about getting open by five yards now, but you don't
need five yards. But you you have to teach them
(13:27):
how to use their body and their hands and they're arms.
I mean, have you ever heard of a block release?
Probably not, I could tell by look on your face. Okay,
so here's a block release. You got a guy up
in your face. He's jamming you, so I know. Okay,
So instead of trying to go to the inside or
give them a little juke, what happens when you run
right off and hit them right in the face. You
(13:48):
just go through them and create Okay, Well, now they're
backing up because normally they're stepping forward. Now all of
a sudden, you got them on the defensive right instead
of them attacking you, you were acronym. So now you've
already gained control. Now your next move whatever happens now,
whether you throw them okay, whether you slap them, whether
you rip them, or whether you just take them and
(14:11):
just manhandle them, you're already open. Okay, there you go.
I want to continue keating this on the giants. Then, Charlie,
A lot of people will talk about them trying to
get more weapons for Daniel Jones makes sense. Wide receiver
end of the first round. Great, would you consider looking
at the tight ends in the straft at that spot too.
I know Brian Davel and Mike Halfca come from systems
that were primarily eleven personnel. They had Daniel Bellinger last year,
(14:32):
but the way the NFL's trending now, with these tight
ends being such big weapons in the passing game, would
that be a consideration for you to help Daniel adding
a more receiving leaning tight end instead of a wide receiver. Well, Brian,
remember had multiple years coaching tight ends with the Patriot right.
I mean, so if you don't think he has an
affinity towards you're wrong. And we use plenty of twelve people,
(14:55):
which we used to call Detroit, which I don't know
whether they call Detroit or not, but we used to
use plenty of twelve people in the past. So it
wouldn't shock me at all if if the right tight
end came along, if they went ahead and jumped on them.
All right, let me ask you about Daniel Jones and
say Quon Barkley in a combo question. Giants are trying
to retain both players. They've made that very clear from
(15:17):
your offensive coordinator's perspective. How important is it for those
two guys to stay together because they seemed to feed
off each other. They made each other better over the
course of this last season. I think that I hate
to say this, but the quarterback is always way more
important than the running back, no doubt. It's not close
for a second. So the first thing you have to
(15:37):
do is you have to secure the quarterback. So they're
going to secure the quarterback. So one or two things
is going to happen. Either's going to sign a multi
year contract or as they're going to tag him. That's
just the way it's gonna be. And then so there'll
be a trickle down effect with say Quad, there'll be
a trickle down effect. Now they're trying to do contracts
with both of them right now, right, they'd rather not
(15:58):
use a tag on either one of them, but they
much rather if they had their druthers, they much rather
tag sae Quon because the only cost ten million dollars.
Sure you know, then cost thirty two thirty two million dollars.
Now Daniel is going to make more than thirty two
million dollars a year over the next five years, but
(16:19):
he might not this year. This year that might be.
He might say, well, look at I want, Oh, look
at I don't know what he wants. We've all we've
all read the stories. You know he wants forty five million.
We've we don't we don't know, you know, unless unless
you're his agent, his new agent by the way, So
(16:40):
unless you're the agent, or unless you're Joe and meaning
Joe Shing, we don't know what they really want. But
at the end of the day, the Giants would like
both those players to be on the team. But if
neither one of them will do a contract and you
only can tag one, you have to tag the quarterback.
And if that means you end up losing the sea que,
(17:02):
which no one wants to do, right, But if it
means you have losing seque, you'll lose sque. How much
of an impediment do you think that would be? Though
d Daniel Jones has continued growth, if he had to
start with a new running back, potentially even a draft
choice running back, Yeah, but that's true with everybody. I mean,
it's just you know, there's a state of flux in
the league. I mean, with as much money as quarterbacks
(17:24):
are getting paid and as much of the salary cap
quarterbacks take from right now. I mean, there's got to
be priorities. And I mean that's a rhetorical question you
just asked me, because everyone knows that you'd rather have
him than not he doubt. But if you don't have him,
you don't have him. You know what it would be
(17:45):
like Belichick coming into me and saying, well, you have
this guy, but you don't have that guy. Okay, if
you're waiting for a reaction, you're not going to get one,
because whatever it is, it is. I mean, what are
you gonna sit there and say, no, that's not the
way I want it. Whoever, whatever cards you got, that's
the card you got, you know, So it's you know,
it's just it's not as hard as you guys make
(18:06):
it sound. You know, once to once you you got
to set a card, you go ahead and play them. Now,
all of a sudden, if somebody hands you a joker
over there, you know that, you know, all of a sudden,
the joker comes walking through the door. You change, You
change what you got in your in your deck right there,
you make, you make a couple of tweaks, and you
(18:27):
keep that poker face because you can keep it that's
a little wrinkled to what we have right there, and
you go ahead and change accordingly. It's you know, hey,
it depends on the style of play. You know, the
Giants this year one playing complimentary football. That's the game
that I'm very familiar with, no doubt, complimentary football. But
(18:48):
in today's game, not very many teens play complimentary found
It's offense tries to score as many points as they
can and the defense tries to survive. Yeah, they hold on. Yeah,
that's that's that's the game we're playing in now. Yeah,
I think we saw that in the Super Bowl right
between the Eagles and the Chiefs. Well, neither one want
to influence, want to influence exactly. So as someone that
(19:09):
evaluates quarterbacks, you know, for for a living, just getting
the year overall evaluation of Daniel, where you think he improved,
what do you think he's really good at, and where
you think maybe the next step would come for him? Well,
I just thought he too made such a huge step
from last year that this year of taking care of
the football. I mean that was I watched him and said,
(19:30):
how can you have this guy? I mean, every time
you're turning around, he's fumble one and if he's not
fun when he's throwing an interception, it was tough, you know. So, uh,
you'd like to have bigger numbers as far as touchdowns.
You like the ratio with three to one, fifteen to five.
You like that ratio, But you'd like to have more touchdowns.
(19:51):
But it would help when you have better guys to
throw too, too, and better guys blocking, and all that
other stuff comes into play, but they all kind of
grow together. So if you're asking me, you know, what
I liked the most about him was his improve of
ball security. I thought that that was the most significant
step that he took. Now, the question, the question is
(20:13):
you know, and I listen. I followed the giants as
you guys know, I follow the giants. And there is
a walk away number. There is a number where you say, look,
we're not pay we're not paying you that. But it
doesn't have to be this year, right, because that's what
the tag number. This year is a very reasonable number
to be dealing with. It's a very you know, it's
(20:35):
it's not a through the roof number. It's a very
reasonable number. Really, that decision might be more for next
year than it is for this year by one more. Yeah,
you know, Charlie about the defense. You guys are reaching
here now you're just you're just looking to come up
with more questions. J We could talk about the old
(20:57):
days for five hours, trust me, I want really, I
did want to ask you. I did want to ask
you about Wink Martin. Yeah, I'm shocked down again an
eighties questions out of That's all right, that's all right,
because I know our audience wants to you about this
current Giants team. I want to ask you about Wink Martindale.
I think it was a bit much bigger loss, as
much as a nice job KLFT has done with Brian
(21:17):
being an offensive guy. If Kafka would have got a
head coaching job and left, it wouldn't have been nearly
a big as big a blow as Wink leaving. Yeah,
if Wink would have gotten a job, because you know,
now you totally the mentality from you know, from Patrick Graham,
who I love, by the way, But Patrick Gamm leaves,
(21:39):
Wink comes in. They change the style of how they play.
They made a lot of progress. They're far from a
polished machine, but they made a lot of progress. I
think that if you lost your defensive coordinator and had
to start over again with another defensive coordinator. That would
have been a bigger blow to the Giant organization to
have a polished, veteran guy. I when you're when you're
(22:02):
a head coach that wants to run run the team,
but you're expertise's offense, and you could hire a polished
guy on the other side of the ball that's a veteran.
It just it just works very well. Wacky to have him. Absolutely,
I just realized that we're like in trolley Weiss landing.
He got the Jets in front of us. We have
(22:22):
the Patriots behind us. Here. This is like the trolley
Weiss circle area of the last time I checked, there
was no going away party for Weiss with the Giants.
They couldn't get rid of me fast enough. The Jets
it was faster than that and the Patriots. I worked
here for nine years. I'm still waiting for my going
away party. And by the way, you're welcome frond of
(22:44):
having Lance on the show today. Happy to help you
on that front. I think he would measure well at
the combine. By the way, he would fail that the
high test. I'm not saying anything derogatory. You guys. The
bait is there. The bait is there. You're just you're
just begging for me to say something. And I've learned,
as I've mellowed and got older, to take the high road,
(23:07):
So I'll take the high road. Well, Lance is never
on the high road, so it makes sense that that
that's the road you would take. Charlie, weis you. Thank
you for joining us at the Giants on the podcast. Charlie,
great stuff. We really appreciate it. Checking out on airing
it out on Sirius XM for Paul Datino. I'm John
smulcol for Charlie. We'll see you next time.
It's time to get inside the Giants Huttle on giants
dot Com. There we go on the Giants part of
the Giants podcast Network. Welcome to another episode of the
Giant Hubtle podcast, all brought to you by psc ANDNG
Energy Efficiency For game time and anytime, visit PSEG dot
com slash Giants for discounts, rebates and home energy assessments.
(00:20):
John Schmalk pulled Tatino with you live in Indianapolis for
the NFL Combine, and now we're joined by a man
that's been coaching in the NFL for a very long time,
former offensive coordinator and Super Bowl champion for the New
York Football Giants. He is Charlie Weiss, who's now host
on the Morning Drive on Sirius x D channel channel.
(00:42):
You can hear him with the voice of the Giants
Bob pop Up on Sirius XM, so make sure you
go check that out. And Charlie a lot to talk
about here at the combines. So let's kind of start
very broadly here. As a coach who understands offensive football
as well as anyone, what's the important stuff for you
when you came out of here to the combine looking
at players and the stuff that you really took out
(01:02):
of it as a coach that made it important to you. Well,
the interviews, you know, because I don't need to go
watch a kid work out in shorts to sit there
and tell me too much. I'd rather watch game tape
that as a as a coach, that's where you're going
to learn about the player. I'm not going to watch
a quarterback throw routes with some guys that they don't
play with and make a determination whoa why I really
(01:25):
like this guy or don't like this guy. But you
get to know them more and I think that's invaluable.
The one difference between all of us and the guys
that go interview the players is they know them. We
know of them, we don't know them. And I think
that there's a lot too that the inner workings of
a of a of a player as a person is
(01:49):
characters intelligence. Those are the type of things you can
get here at the Combine. Okay, you just made my
first question for me, Charlie, because I'm going to ask you,
maybe who were two of the three most interesting interviews
you've done at the Combine And if it's so interesting
that you don't want to tell us their name. That's okay,
but I've got to ask that now that you opened
(02:09):
up that can worm. Okay, I'll give you a pro
and a con. And with the pro, i'll give the name.
With a con, I won't give the name. So here's
a pro, Antoine randol ll remember the name an so
At RANDOLLL. So he walks into our meeting room at
the Combine at the old train station when they had
at the train station. He comes in for his fifteen minute,
(02:33):
fifteen minute interview and we hand him a hat, which
was a Super Bowl champion hat. So he gets the
hat and he goes, Now that's what I'm talking about.
That that's how the interview starts. Now here's a guy
who is a quarterback at IU that we were going
to convert to a wide receiver. But like right off
(02:54):
the bat, he won the room. He took over the room.
And how many these guys you think take over the
room in fifteen minutes. None of them. So he was
he was an exception to that rule on a negative one.
I was meeting with a tight end and I'll leave
the school out of this and I'll leave the player
(03:16):
out of this. But he had gotten thrown out of
school that year for setting off a multough cocktail in
his dorm. What seriously, So he's at he's at the time.
SU's that. Yeah, SU's at the combine. So I said something, So,
tell me, did you get thrown out of school? You know,
(03:38):
I asked him that question. He goes, yeah, I did.
And I said, how would you even know that? How
would you even know how to make one? And he goes,
what would you like to know? And I said I So,
I said yeah, sure. So then he starts to legitimately
answer that question, tell me how you make a bomb?
(04:00):
And I said, time out, time out. I don't really
want to know. I don't really want to know. So
I kind of wrapped up the interview. And you already
said he's off our board. You know. I don't know
about other teams, but we're certainly not taking And the
kid ended up getting drafted, drafted in the fifth round
and the draft and ended up playing in the league
for a little while. I would be like, why do
(04:22):
you think it was a good idea to light up him? Intelligence?
Amazing again, my new jersey and upbringing. I said, well,
tell me how you do this? Sarcastically figuring he wasn't
gonna tell me, and there he starts telling me how
you do it is a timeout. I really don't need
to know. I really don't want to know. Go ahead,
(04:42):
and you know we wrapped it up and we moved on.
So how deep have you, you know, done your dive
into some of these prospects, especially on you know, the
offensive side of the bull quarterbacks, receivers out. Yeah, I've
spent more time on the quarterbacks so far. I'm always
ahead on the quarterbacks and the receivers. I was just
having this conversation a couple of minutes ago before I
came over here, because I was going over you know,
(05:06):
a half dozen of them or so that you know
that everyone wants to talk about. I said, what people
don't factor in is not only how good the players
are and would they fit your system, but the other
thing they don't factor in is how ready are they
(05:30):
to play. So if you're going to take a guy
in the first round of the draft relatively high in
today's world, that means he's going to play as quickly
as you could play. He might not start right off
the bat, but he's going to play relatively quickly. So
which guys are playing in systems that prepare a guy
(05:54):
like an NFL player. So I take Bryce Young for example,
Billy O'Brien was as offensive coordinator. Nick Saban was his
head coach. Okay, so forget about everything else. We talked
about his size, we you know, we talked about injury concerns,
like how many guys in the draft have an NFL
(06:16):
offensive coordinator that was your coordinator and Nick Saban is
your head coach. One. So to me, when I'm looking
at all those quarterbacks, there's him and then there's the rest.
You know. So now that doesn't mean those other guys
aren't good, But I mean most of those guys stood
at the line of scrimmage and the offensive coordinator called
(06:38):
to play everyone at the side. Everyone's looking at him.
So they got him line, they looked over, got helped
get everyone lined up. Then what do you want me
to play? Or what do you want me to do? Now?
Some of them had a check off plays, you know,
more than others. But a lot of these guys, when
you bring them in, you put them in a huddle,
it's the first time they were in the huddle, sure,
(06:59):
or the first time you put them under center. They
were never under center. So you know, I think that
if you're going to take a guy early in the draft,
you know you don't want to be spending a lot
of time just teach him how to call playing that
you want them to be able to run the whole operation.
So for you, we're a big red flag at Anthony Richardson,
then no, I'm just no, I'm saying for me, it's
(07:20):
not a red flag. It's just not a guy that
I would want to take. Understand, I got you. But
but Charlie, from a pro coach's perspective, because in Banks
by the way, La Carl Banks likes to call those
guys to just add water guys, by the way, you
who have that old pro system in style already ingrained
in him. But for a pro coach who's sitting down
in one of these interviews and he knows it's not
(07:41):
a just add water player, knowing that there's not a
lot of patience these days and coaches can get fired
very quickly, what is the pro coach's mentality when talking
to a player like that, knowing he's going to have
to be patient and have to give that guy a
lot of time. It depends on the head coach's job status.
I hate to be honest, but it does answer at
(08:03):
the head. You know, you take a team that the
head coach's job sadist is in question. You want to
take a risk on a guy like that because you
might not be there. You might you might be getting
you might be training them for somebody else. Okay, Now,
if you have good your job saddus is secure. So
he's you're taking somebody like that, sure, because now you
(08:25):
could groom him to be the guy rather than just
have to throw him in there. How about wide receivers? Um,
we see you talk about quarterbacks not coming from pro systems, right.
I look at two wide receivers in this draft. You know,
Jalen Hiltt comes from Tennessee where there's so much space
with the way they spread the field with the hashes
and just good. He's really good. But you know he
(08:46):
doesn't run the full route tree and he's kind of
a speA guy than you, Quentin Johnson. You know the
history of big toll wide receivers is not awesome, and
he's getting more of a goal route stock he's really
good at. Isn't why I'm asking a question, right, So
they're really good. So if you're a team, how much
do you trust your staff and your wide receivers coach
to turn these guys that are really good into NFL
(09:08):
wide receivers that can do everything you need them to do?
And do you have to consider that a process? So
maybe you only use them what they're good at early
and then you expand them as they go along. All right, well,
I'll give you two parts of that question. Number one,
those Ohio state wide receivers that played in the league
last year, those two rookie wide RESI pretty good. That's
the same thing for them, and how they do They're
(09:31):
only the best two wide receivers the rookie class in
the league, so you know, so that's that refutes that argument.
On the other hand, I remember going to a workout
from this guy by the name of Terrell Owens. There
was a University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, and I was
there for his workout, and who was about seventeen of
us there for this workout because it was only gonna
(09:52):
be one workout and you weren't going back there for
another workout. And I went there for the workout and
he couldn't run any routes. I mean, he was a big,
strong guy who's athletic. He could do everything. He couldn't
run around. How did that work out? I think pretty good.
So I mean, so I'm showing you both sides of defense.
You can't have preconceived notion. If it guy's got got
(10:14):
very good athletic skills. It goes back to trace you
can figure out, you can figure out how to move
forward with them. Okay, supplemental question to that, we all
know the Giants need help in the wide receiver room.
They were hurt a lot last year. They certainly need
some big play guys, Charlie. We were told by Joe Shane,
(10:34):
the general manager, and his media availability yesterday that separation
is the number one quality that he wants to see
in a wide receiver and basically the rest of it
isn't as important because Brian Dable will find out how
to use a guy who can get separation. From your
perspective as a guy who was an offensive coordinator, how
would you try to construct the rest of this Giant's
(10:56):
wide receiver room knowing that Wandale Robinson and Isaiah Hodgens
or at least going to be part of it. Well,
there's two different ways of getting separation. One way of
getting separation is just you're you're faster or you're more
athletic than the guy you're going against. The other way
is using your physicality. So there's two different styles that
(11:16):
you were talking about here. I remember when we went
to the Jets. You know, we went to the Jets
and Keishaan Johnson had just had his rookie year and
there was a lot of plays when I watched from
his first year where he was it's like glue. So
here's a big, physical, strong guy that we added a
few things to his repertoire to using his physicality to
(11:40):
help create separation. So creating separation is one issue, because
there's more than one way to get separation. So now
assuming that whether it's a big physical guy getting separation
or whether it's a really athletic guy, you know, getting separation,
either one of those guys, as long as you have
(12:01):
a guy that you know can can get off get
off the you know, can create some open space for
the quarterback. The quarterbacks in the NFL don't need as
big open spaces as those kids in college too, you know.
And how many times do we watch games where you
say that's a small window. That's a small window. Well,
those quarter gap backs are getting paid a lot of
(12:22):
money to throw the ball into those small windows. So
I think you'll have plenty opportunity. And the great thing
about the draft is you can take really good ones
early in the draft, but you could still find really
good ones as the draft matriculates. You still can find
guys to can that fit that bill. And I think
if you go into the draft knowing that that's one
(12:43):
area you want to help yourself, you'll be able to
help yourself because there's plenty of options. Sometimes you run
out of candidates, receivers usually not one of them. Okay,
let me ask you this because you just mentioned about
the kinds of separation or the styles that you can
used to get it. Speed. Guys, they got the speed.
But in terms of how easy is it to coach
separation to a physical guy like you just mentioned Keyshawn Johnson,
(13:06):
how hard is that to do? Well, it's really not
that hard to do. No, not that hard to how
to teach them how to get how to get open
if that's what you're asking, I mean, I'm not talking
about getting open by five yards now, but you don't
need five yards. But you you have to teach them
(13:27):
how to use their body and their hands and they're arms.
I mean, have you ever heard of a block release?
Probably not, I could tell by look on your face. Okay,
so here's a block release. You got a guy up
in your face. He's jamming you, so I know. Okay,
So instead of trying to go to the inside or
give them a little juke, what happens when you run
right off and hit them right in the face. You
(13:48):
just go through them and create Okay, Well, now they're
backing up because normally they're stepping forward. Now all of
a sudden, you got them on the defensive right instead
of them attacking you, you were acronym. So now you've
already gained control. Now your next move whatever happens now,
whether you throw them okay, whether you slap them, whether
you rip them, or whether you just take them and
(14:11):
just manhandle them, you're already open. Okay, there you go.
I want to continue keating this on the giants. Then, Charlie,
A lot of people will talk about them trying to
get more weapons for Daniel Jones makes sense. Wide receiver
end of the first round. Great, would you consider looking
at the tight ends in the straft at that spot too.
I know Brian Davel and Mike Halfca come from systems
that were primarily eleven personnel. They had Daniel Bellinger last year,
(14:32):
but the way the NFL's trending now, with these tight
ends being such big weapons in the passing game, would
that be a consideration for you to help Daniel adding
a more receiving leaning tight end instead of a wide receiver. Well, Brian,
remember had multiple years coaching tight ends with the Patriot right.
I mean, so if you don't think he has an
affinity towards you're wrong. And we use plenty of twelve people,
(14:55):
which we used to call Detroit, which I don't know
whether they call Detroit or not, but we used to
use plenty of twelve people in the past. So it
wouldn't shock me at all if if the right tight
end came along, if they went ahead and jumped on them.
All right, let me ask you about Daniel Jones and
say Quon Barkley in a combo question. Giants are trying
to retain both players. They've made that very clear from
(15:17):
your offensive coordinator's perspective. How important is it for those
two guys to stay together because they seemed to feed
off each other. They made each other better over the
course of this last season. I think that I hate
to say this, but the quarterback is always way more
important than the running back, no doubt. It's not close
for a second. So the first thing you have to
(15:37):
do is you have to secure the quarterback. So they're
going to secure the quarterback. So one or two things
is going to happen. Either's going to sign a multi
year contract or as they're going to tag him. That's
just the way it's gonna be. And then so there'll
be a trickle down effect with say Quad, there'll be
a trickle down effect. Now they're trying to do contracts
with both of them right now, right, they'd rather not
(15:58):
use a tag on either one of them, but they
much rather if they had their druthers, they much rather
tag sae Quon because the only cost ten million dollars.
Sure you know, then cost thirty two thirty two million dollars.
Now Daniel is going to make more than thirty two
million dollars a year over the next five years, but
(16:19):
he might not this year. This year that might be.
He might say, well, look at I want, Oh, look
at I don't know what he wants. We've all we've
all read the stories. You know he wants forty five million.
We've we don't we don't know, you know, unless unless
you're his agent, his new agent by the way, So
(16:40):
unless you're the agent, or unless you're Joe and meaning
Joe Shing, we don't know what they really want. But
at the end of the day, the Giants would like
both those players to be on the team. But if
neither one of them will do a contract and you
only can tag one, you have to tag the quarterback.
And if that means you end up losing the sea que,
(17:02):
which no one wants to do, right, But if it
means you have losing seque, you'll lose sque. How much
of an impediment do you think that would be? Though
d Daniel Jones has continued growth, if he had to
start with a new running back, potentially even a draft
choice running back, Yeah, but that's true with everybody. I mean,
it's just you know, there's a state of flux in
the league. I mean, with as much money as quarterbacks
(17:24):
are getting paid and as much of the salary cap
quarterbacks take from right now. I mean, there's got to
be priorities. And I mean that's a rhetorical question you
just asked me, because everyone knows that you'd rather have
him than not he doubt. But if you don't have him,
you don't have him. You know what it would be
(17:45):
like Belichick coming into me and saying, well, you have
this guy, but you don't have that guy. Okay, if
you're waiting for a reaction, you're not going to get one,
because whatever it is, it is. I mean, what are
you gonna sit there and say, no, that's not the
way I want it. Whoever, whatever cards you got, that's
the card you got, you know, So it's you know,
it's just it's not as hard as you guys make
(18:06):
it sound. You know, once to once you you got
to set a card, you go ahead and play them. Now,
all of a sudden, if somebody hands you a joker
over there, you know that, you know, all of a sudden,
the joker comes walking through the door. You change, You
change what you got in your in your deck right there,
you make, you make a couple of tweaks, and you
(18:27):
keep that poker face because you can keep it that's
a little wrinkled to what we have right there, and
you go ahead and change accordingly. It's you know, hey,
it depends on the style of play. You know, the
Giants this year one playing complimentary football. That's the game
that I'm very familiar with, no doubt, complimentary football. But
(18:48):
in today's game, not very many teens play complimentary found
It's offense tries to score as many points as they
can and the defense tries to survive. Yeah, they hold on. Yeah,
that's that's that's the game we're playing in now. Yeah,
I think we saw that in the Super Bowl right
between the Eagles and the Chiefs. Well, neither one want
to influence, want to influence exactly. So as someone that
(19:09):
evaluates quarterbacks, you know, for for a living, just getting
the year overall evaluation of Daniel, where you think he improved,
what do you think he's really good at, and where
you think maybe the next step would come for him? Well,
I just thought he too made such a huge step
from last year that this year of taking care of
the football. I mean that was I watched him and said,
(19:30):
how can you have this guy? I mean, every time
you're turning around, he's fumble one and if he's not
fun when he's throwing an interception, it was tough, you know. So, uh,
you'd like to have bigger numbers as far as touchdowns.
You like the ratio with three to one, fifteen to five.
You like that ratio, But you'd like to have more touchdowns.
(19:51):
But it would help when you have better guys to
throw too, too, and better guys blocking, and all that
other stuff comes into play, but they all kind of
grow together. So if you're asking me, you know, what
I liked the most about him was his improve of
ball security. I thought that that was the most significant
step that he took. Now, the question, the question is
(20:13):
you know, and I listen. I followed the giants as
you guys know, I follow the giants. And there is
a walk away number. There is a number where you say, look,
we're not pay we're not paying you that. But it
doesn't have to be this year, right, because that's what
the tag number. This year is a very reasonable number
to be dealing with. It's a very you know, it's
(20:35):
it's not a through the roof number. It's a very
reasonable number. Really, that decision might be more for next
year than it is for this year by one more. Yeah,
you know, Charlie about the defense. You guys are reaching
here now you're just you're just looking to come up
with more questions. J We could talk about the old
(20:57):
days for five hours, trust me, I want really, I
did want to ask you. I did want to ask
you about Wink Martin. Yeah, I'm shocked down again an
eighties questions out of That's all right, that's all right,
because I know our audience wants to you about this
current Giants team. I want to ask you about Wink Martindale.
I think it was a bit much bigger loss, as
much as a nice job KLFT has done with Brian
(21:17):
being an offensive guy. If Kafka would have got a
head coaching job and left, it wouldn't have been nearly
a big as big a blow as Wink leaving. Yeah,
if Wink would have gotten a job, because you know,
now you totally the mentality from you know, from Patrick Graham,
who I love, by the way, But Patrick Gamm leaves,
(21:39):
Wink comes in. They change the style of how they play.
They made a lot of progress. They're far from a
polished machine, but they made a lot of progress. I
think that if you lost your defensive coordinator and had
to start over again with another defensive coordinator. That would
have been a bigger blow to the Giant organization to
have a polished, veteran guy. I when you're when you're
(22:02):
a head coach that wants to run run the team,
but you're expertise's offense, and you could hire a polished
guy on the other side of the ball that's a veteran.
It just it just works very well. Wacky to have him. Absolutely,
I just realized that we're like in trolley Weiss landing.
He got the Jets in front of us. We have
(22:22):
the Patriots behind us. Here. This is like the trolley
Weiss circle area of the last time I checked, there
was no going away party for Weiss with the Giants.
They couldn't get rid of me fast enough. The Jets
it was faster than that and the Patriots. I worked
here for nine years. I'm still waiting for my going
away party. And by the way, you're welcome frond of
(22:44):
having Lance on the show today. Happy to help you
on that front. I think he would measure well at
the combine. By the way, he would fail that the
high test. I'm not saying anything derogatory. You guys. The
bait is there. The bait is there. You're just you're
just begging for me to say something. And I've learned,
as I've mellowed and got older, to take the high road,
(23:07):
So I'll take the high road. Well, Lance is never
on the high road, so it makes sense that that
that's the road you would take. Charlie, weis you. Thank
you for joining us at the Giants on the podcast. Charlie,
great stuff. We really appreciate it. Checking out on airing
it out on Sirius XM for Paul Datino. I'm John
smulcol for Charlie. We'll see you next time.
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