Giants Huddle | Giants Assistant Director of Player Personnel Dennis Hickey

John Schmeelk sits down with the Giants’ Assistant Director of Player Personnel to talk about reuniting with Joe Schoen, the importance of the Senior Bowl, and how the personnel staff judges each player’s skillset. SUBSCRIBE NOW: Apple | Spotify | Google | Stitcher | iHeartRadio 00:00 - Working with Joe Schoen 04:05 - Evaluating talent at the Senior Bowl 05:34 - Working with Giants scouting staff 07:23 - What to look for in a player 11:00 - Importance of Senior Bowl

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hutte on giants
dot com, part of the Giants Podcast Network. Welcome to
another edition of the Giant Subtle Podcast, Front Office edition,
brought to you by City College of New York Doing
Remarkable Things. Learn more at c c n Y dot
q NE dot e d U. I'm John Schmelck. Had
a chance to talk to the Giants Assistant director of

(00:22):
player Personnel Dennis Hickey when we were at the Senior Bowl.
We talked a little bit about the Senior Bowl itself.
We also talked about his relationship to Giants General manager
Joe Shane, going back to his days when Dennis was
the general manager for the Dolphins and Joe worked for him.
We talked about a couple of specific positions, the wide
receiver in cornerback spots, not only watching the one on
ones at the Senior Bowl, but also what they really

(00:44):
think are the most important parts of that position, and
just um some general scott In questions in terms of
how you evaluate these guys and decide um what players
you want to make New York Football Giants. Was a
fun conversation. But first, if you're into the draft, folks,
make sure you go check out Draft Season our draft podcast,
Tony Aline and I breaked everything down in terms of
the draft, top players, mock drafts, rankings, lists, the combine,

(01:06):
you name it. We're at the Senior Bowl. We've good
episodes on that. Make sure you go check it out
as on the Giants Mobleblap, jihnants dot com, Slash podcast,
and of course subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms. Just
search for Draft season. All right, and now we're joined
by the Giants Assistant director of Player Personnel, Dennis Hicky. Dennis,
how are you, man? It's good to see IM doing great.
It's a beautiful day here and mobile and watching some football.

(01:27):
It's great. It's a great time. Absolutely. All right, let's
start here, Assistant director of player Personnel. What's your job?
A little bit of everything? You know. Over my career,
I've pretty much filled out the personnel BINGO card, just
done about everything. But it's a it's a great opportunity
for all of our staff, personnel staff. We're you know,
we believe we're gonna build through the draft, so this

(01:48):
is a great exposure. Last year, there's about a hundred
and six guys that were drafted out of this game,
so you do the math. That's close of the draft.
So it's a great time and our coaches are here,
our scouts are here to just to get more insight
into these players and kind of put the pieces of
the puzzle together. You mentioned your general manager, you're a
director of college scouting, director of player person you've done

(02:09):
at all. When you were the general manager in Miami,
you would Joe Shane working underneath you. So what was
your experience when you were Joe's boss in Miami? Had
that he was great? Um, and he knew back then
that he was he was going to be destined to,
you know, keep rising. You know, smart, talented, extremely hard working,
you know, great with people, and uh, you just knew
he was a rising star and he did a great

(02:31):
job for us, and um, you know, he just kept
It's it's been great watching him throughout and getting opportunities
and having success and then then following him here. You know,
that was a big part of coming here. Um, just
excited to work with him and just amazing job he's
done his first year and just it's fun to watch,
you know, his relationship with coach day Ball and just
the alignment we have at the top which it's you know,

(02:53):
that's that's great for the whole organization, and I think
you see that in the results. What were some of
the things about Joe when he worked for you that
you identified that you did think he was heading for
bigger and better things. Well, really talented evaluator, and I've
been on the road when and before you know, he
came up through the ranks. You know, he's a combined
scout and then just kept and you always saw Joe

(03:15):
at schools. You knew he's working hard, he's working sources,
and he had he had a keen eye for evaluations.
Then I got in the building and and saw the capacity,
the workload. It was, you know, really impressive. I was like, Wow,
this guy is really out there grinding and working and
with the quality as well. So you knew he knew
he was going to do great things, and I just

(03:35):
excited to be on on the same team with him again.
Now you were the general manager, had obviously, so you
know it's not just watching, taping guys and evaluating players.
A lot more that goes into it, right, So what
advice we're able to give Joe about stepping into the
job and all the stuff that goes along with it.
That's just not being a scout. Yeah, just stick the
fundamentals of who you are, you know, and uh, you know,
it's still all about people and those relationships. And you

(03:57):
knew that the talent the evaluation would come, but just uh,
you know, just keep working, just surround yourself with with
people that you trust. Let's talk about the Senior Bowl.
What as a town evaluator can you get out of
an event like this being here for three or four days. Well,
it's great because because you're in it's a controlled environment
and you get to see there's a lot of small
school players. There's players that are playing different positions, Guys

(04:20):
that you haven't seen returning punts, they're fielding punts. And
it's in an NFL environment. So you get so much
out there, good versus good, that competitive nature and just
see how guys rise to the level of the competition.
Um and plus you for our coaches, this is gonna
be this is they're entering the evaluation phase and so
for them to get their eyes and get to meet

(04:41):
and interview these guys. You get to see the makeup
and how what makes these guys take their story, all
the context that leads into a player, which is so
important for us. How much, in what ways can your
opinion of a player change based on what happens here,
Because obviously you guys, I'm not going about the final report,
but you've seen them play all their games already. You
kind of have a pretty good scouting report all these guys.

(05:03):
So how can in what ways can this event change
your opinion on guys? Well, you just see different elements
of them. Again, there's some utilization. Maybe a guy play tackle,
now you see him a guard or center, or maybe
a guy played on the outside corner you see him
playing nickel or different positions that that's a key element.
And then just seeing them against quality competition one on

(05:24):
ones again, some of those sometimes you don't see that element.
It's about maximizing the exposure for these guys, and it's
a it's a great and valuable resource for us. And
we'll get to the one on ones at the second,
I promise. How about having the whole group here together.
What's the value of having your whole scouting staff here
as a group meeting and just interacting with each other,
given most of the year they're spread all across the country. Yeah,

(05:46):
that's a great question. We see ourselves as a collective.
You know, there's a lot of different experiences. You know,
guys come from different teams, in different roles, all those things,
and we just want to put our heads together. Joe's
very Joan Dave's are very include. They believe in diversity
of flought, and so get all the educated opinions together
and we're working through and trying to get it right

(06:07):
for the New York Giants when it comes drafted and
and our again, our guys, you know, from Marcus Cooper
to Scott Hamill who he added, you know, Mike Derees,
who's over the top, Jeremy Bright, who's been who's been
here for a long time. Dj boyster Um, we got
Hannah Burnett on the Northwest, Brendan Prophets, Patrick Hanscom, you know,

(06:28):
Marquis Pendleton, Blaze Belt. You know, there's so many of
these guys are here, and they do such a great
job there on the road, you know, working behind the
scenes and doing all the detailed work that's gonna really
equip us to make good decisions as it goes. All right,
let's talk about what's going on the field, and you
mentioned the one on ones wide receivers and defensive backs.
It's the glitz position. That's what everybody's watching. We're trying

(06:48):
to watch wide receivers. What kind of skills or traits
are you looking for when you're watching those wide receivers
defensive back one on ones. Yeah, you hit on the
key word as traits, right, and you want to see
number one there ease of movement, their athleticism, their quickness,
the speed, you know how that relates. You know what
type of route craft, route detail, do they have, what foundation?
And again some guys are further long because they come

(07:09):
from different programs other guys, But you also want to
see how they improve from day one in a new environment,
you know, day three and then the game. You want
to just see their progression because you want to see
guys on our trajectory. In that way, it's one position,
but they all come in different size of shapes and skills, right,
So what does your group favor or do you like

(07:30):
the big catch radius, the bigger guy? Do you want
the separators? What are some of the things that are
the most important to you guys as you judge these
guys that play the same position but are very different
and how they go about it. Yeah, what great thing
about our offensive staff is they're gonna utilize the skill
set you know that they have. So whatever they do well,
they're gonna maximize that. So guys come and get it
done in a lot of different ways, you know, some

(07:50):
through quickness and separation, others through catch radius, others through
you know, finding holes in zone and just beating beating,
running good routes. They're doing a lot of different ways,
and so you just want to make sure you identify
that and make sure it fits where we're gonna play
him at our place. All right, let's jump over to
the cornerbacks. What are the important traits as looking for
them as they're trying to shut down those very talented

(08:11):
wide receivers. You're watching well, the athleticism reactionary athletes and
being able to match and mirror, uh finish on the ball,
the ball skills, being able to locate downfield, um, being
able to vision on the ball, you know, playing multiple
coverages vision, you know, whether you have vision on the
ball or whether you're playing press man or just doing
all different things. They have different skill sets, but just

(08:33):
watching them within that and seeing how they can help
us and add value to the giants. And I have
to imagine working with a guy like Wynk who's pretty
clear about what he wants out of that position. I
imagine having him and understanding what he wants makes your
job finding the guys that will fit what he likes
to do a lot easier, right right? That that that's
what's so you know great about our organizations. We have

(08:54):
a clear vision of what we're looking for. It's a
it's a big competitive edge for us because we know
what we're looking for and there's a consistency and that's
some of the things we do in training camp. Coaches
come in and they just lay out, Okay, these are
the kind of guys we're looking for and what fits us.
And so it makes it easier. You know, want guys
who can play man coverage, get the ball, back, um tackle.

(09:14):
There's a lot of different skills sets that they have
to bring to add value to us. But the great
thing is there's clarity and offensive side ball, defensive side
of the ball, and that that makes our job a
lot easier. Just a couple more traits. You mentioned traits
and how important they are. How do you balance that
worth a guy that's toolsy, but maybe he does not
the production in college. But any of the guy that
all right, you know, it doesn't run the best forty,

(09:35):
you know, but he gets open and he gets it done,
he gets production. How do you balance those two things
when you're trying to evaluate these guys? Yeah, that's the
hard part about scudden, right, How how do you weigh
those things? And that's that's what as a scout doing
this over a lot of years, you just keep working
to conviction, you know, and some guys get it done
in a a different way. But if you watch enough tape

(09:55):
and you believe in the makeup of the guy, that
he'll be able to reach his potential to be able
to impact us in those ways. And it's funny I'm
gonna follow up on that because that was my next question.
How can you figure out which guys are going to
meet that promise? Right? I mean, I imagine that's the
hardest part of scouting. It's easy to tell you what
the guy could do now, but knowing what he's gonna
be in five years? Is that what the interview processes for.
How do you figure out whether or not these guys

(10:17):
will in fact do the work necessary and whether or
not your coaches can get the most out of them
too for those traits to turn into production. Yeah, I mean,
you nailed it. It's the character in the makeup that
determines whether they can reach their ceiling or not and
maximize what they have from the physical skill set wise.
So that's that's why we do a lot of research,
talk to a lot of sources, spend a lot of

(10:38):
time investing into what makes these players tick, what motivates them,
because we want typically makeup and again we're we believe
in that. That's a core belief of our organization of
getting quality people as TV you hear that right, being
a pro, you know, those are the guys that we
want because we know under our coaching staff they'll be
developed and reach their potential. It's on the shirt. I
know about it. Don't worry ya. How have you evolved

(11:01):
in and how you look at this event over the years?
You know football has changed a lot, right, the way
it's played, what your favorite how is your um just
ability to evaluate change and evolved throughout the years at
this event and in general, the way the way the
NFL has changed over the last five ten years. You're
constantly looking back really and it's what our team. You know,
you have difference on schemes. Obviously, I've worked under a

(11:23):
four man front for my entire career until coming here,
and so you know, that's a lot of learning process.
So you're we believe in reflection and so like we're
always gonna be looking at last year's draft class, three
years ago the success and we try to learn from
those guys of what's the common denominators that are making
these players. However, however we felt about them successful, and

(11:45):
then we constantly kind of like machine learning, We'll keep
getting better and better. That's the hope. All right. Final
question n I l S is a big topic in
the end, is that going to help you guys? Because
it seems like guys aren't rushing to come out of
school now because they can go back to college, get
a little money, right, and then they maybe come out
a little bit more season than they would before. So
in the end, is this actually gonna help you get
guys more ready for the NFL to come out because

(12:07):
some guys will be more willing to go back to
school instead of coming on maybe before they're ready. Yeah,
that's an interesting concept just because We're still waiting to
see the results and how that plays out. Yes, sir,
they're coming back. I mean this year, how many six
years seniors and several of them here. You know, they
have that much more experience where you're not getting as
much as the undeveloped, you know, three years and out

(12:27):
type guys. So still kind of waiting to see that
how that plays out. Dennis taking the Giants assistant director
of personnel. We appreciate it, Dennis. Thank you. That's Dennis Hickey,
the Giants assistant director of player personnel. We thank him
for joining us. And as Joe Shane is said, he's
basically right now, uh, the team's quasi director of college scouting,
so he's kind of managing the scouting process for the draft.

(12:49):
So um, really good talking to Dennis and getting a
feel for how he and his staff and obviously working
with Joe Shane and the coaches are looking at these
players and what helps them determine what players they want
to become New York Giants. Really fun conversation. We thank
you for joining us out there and mobile in between
practices at the Senior Bowls. A good time, alright, everybody,
thank you for joining us on this edition of the
Giant Subtle Podcast from an office edition, brought to you

(13:10):
by the City College of New York Doing remarkable Things.
Learn more at c c n Y dot q NE
dot e d U. For Dennis Siti, I'm John Schmulk.
We'll see you next time.