Giants Huddle | Matt Miller

John Schmeelk sits down with Matt Miller, Draft Analyst at ESPN, to discuss what he has seen from workouts at the combine, who is elevating their draft stock, and who could be on the Giants radar in the draft. SUBSCRIBE NOW: Apple | Spotify | Google | Stitcher | iHeartRadio 00:00 - Takeaways from workouts 04:00 - Wide receivers 07:11 - Helping build the Giants offense 09:22 - Defensive standouts 13:53 - Interior offensive line

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants Hubtle on giants
dot Com. Here we go, Where we go on the
Giants Mobile. Let him in there, Let's go part of
the Giants Podcast Network. Welcome back to another edition of
the Giant Hubtle Podcast, brought to you by psc and
G Energy Efficiency for game time and anytime visit PSEG
dot com slash Giants for rebates, home energy assessments and more.

(00:21):
Joining us right now is Matt Miller from ESPN. You
see them on NFL Live for coverage of the draft
all weekend long on the mothership. Matt, what's going on? Man?
I worry I'm doing Woman, It's a tradition at this
point you and I to hang out talk of the combine.
So it's good to see you again, number one. But yeah,
things are going well. It's it's been a fun week.
You know, we're just getting started. But I've had a
blast so far just watching the workouts yesterday, seeing how

(00:43):
fast the defensive line and linebacker groups were. Is I'm
still like a kid in a candy store at the
combine where watching those guys work out, I still I
get excited like watching them run and you know, just
see to see Will Anderson and you know, so many
great players fee in front of you working out is
for me, it's still like a dream come true. So

(01:03):
I still appreciate these moments. Yeah, MAT's probably been joining
us for more than ten years now back I think,
here's my thirteenth combine. I'm old awesome, and of course
we'll try to get mad on again before the draft. Two. Um,
let's go here first. Who do you think really helped
themselves at the workouts yesterday? You know, Tommy had a
bare he worked out with the ends. He's a two

(01:24):
and jd pound tackle and I feel like his like
sub four or five is getting lost in the shuffle.
I agree which is and his overall workout, like his
change of direction combined with his thirty four inch arms
when he got red natural leverage. I mean, he's he's
rocked up. If you just see him, Like, tell me,
I haven't dug into his tape yet. You tell me
why shouldn't he be in the mix at the end

(01:45):
of the first round. I don't know that he's not.
I'll say that. So during the season I had him
labeled as you know, hey, this is a tweener. You
know he's probably gonna play five technique and out. But
he's twenty eighty six pounds and he's six foot two,
so he was a player or where you watch the
tape and you see how they use him and you
get some ideas. But then I saw him the Senior Bowl, thought, okay,

(02:06):
Senior Bowl, he's playing more true almost defensive end with
you know, some kicking inside a little bit. And then
this week it almost confirms you know what you saw
on tape, what we saw a mobile And so for me,
it's that you like each step of the process, you
see a player value and impress. So I think it
is a fair question why can't he be in the
mix at the end of the first round. If you're

(02:27):
the Philadelphia Eagles or the Kansas City Chiefs and you
don't have a lot of needs per se, why wouldn't
you draft a player like that? And like, you know what, Hey,
we'll find a use for someone who moves like that,
especially with the first step quickness and the explosiveness. Who
else do you think it really helped us yesterday? You
know this is gonna shock you, But Will Anderson I
know that it's like, oh, he's the first player in
the draft. Yes, so no, his stock didn't go up.

(02:49):
But to me, the statement that he made yesterday by
working out as the presumptive number one player in the draft,
I think it says a lot about his character of hey,
I'm a competitor, I'm a leader, I'm going to work out,
and you know, for him, it's probably like I was saying,
where like you've dreamed of this moment since you were
a little kid, and now you're here. So even though
I'm sure everyone and his team was like, you know,

(03:11):
well you don't have to work out, and he's like,
you know, no, I'm going to. I'm gonna work out.
So because he didn't have to, and he didn't have to,
but he worked out and looked good. I mean he
was taking it. It looked like it was the fourth
quarter of the Super Bowl those workouts, I mean he was.
To me, it was that confirmation of this is why
I have believed in this player for two years now.
So that was great to see. I thought Lucas van
Ness from Iowa had a great workout. He does, I mean,

(03:35):
the arm ling, the you know, the stature to build,
everything's there. But for a player who was never a
starter at Iowa. I mean he and he looked so good,
and he looked good, and you know, he did some
pass drops and looked good. He looked natural catching the ball.
It's just I think you see the overall ability of
someone like van Ness where you understand how you can
go from being a rotational guy at Iowa. Albeit he

(03:57):
did play a lot, but that's why he's been talked
about as a potential top fifteen pick. Yeah, no question
about it. All right, let's jump to the wide receivers.
We're recording this on Friday, mooring the receivers and everybody
you're talking to the media, your take on the crop
and when we do have the workouts with receivers on Saturday,
who do you think will eventually help themselves. I think
a lot of people have said this, it's not the
greatest wide receiver class ever. We were also spoiled with

(04:20):
wide receiver talent goodness, especially last year, you know, the
year before that. So you know, there's not a Jamar
Chase in this class. There's not a Drake London's probably
not a Garrett Wilson or Chris Lava. But there are
still good wide receivers in this class. I'm a fan
of Jackson Smith and Jigba, and I understand the argument
that he got hurt, only got five passes this past year,
only had forty three yards receiving. But you know, in

(04:42):
that last game he played before that, the rose Ball
gaming get Jutah, he had like a half a season's
worth of catches in that one game. So his production
I'm okay with. To me, it's just he does everything well.
You know, he's just all around polished. I'm a big
fan of Jordan Addison from USC as well. I mean
he's smaller, shifty, great verticals. I'm probably not get into
the Giants at twenty five. Probably not, I'm sorry, probably not. No,

(05:03):
I think you guys, I mean at twenty five, even
though this is not a great wide receiver class, you're
realistically looking at probably the third or fourth wide receiver.
So who is that guy? Maybe Quentin Johnston, you know
from TCU, Maybe as Jalen Hiatt from Tennessee. Could it
be Smith and jig But depending on what he runs
it his pro day. I think what he runs his proday,
since he's not doing the forty here, he's gonna do
all the other workouts here but I also think with

(05:25):
Jay say, a lot of it's gonna be why did
you not play this year? It was the hamstring that
much of a problem. If the hamstring is not much
of a problem, how much of a problem is it
going to be going forward? Or And we've seen this
happen in the past where guys get hurt who are
presumptive very high draft picks and you say like, hey,
you know what, like I'm gonna I'm gonna slow it
down a little bit, I'm not. I don't know, you know,
maybe it wasn't legit injury all year, But I think

(05:46):
that's really the biggest question I have about him right
now is if the hammy was bad enough to keep
you up for that long, how is it going to
be moving forward? Is he a slot only guy? Because
I'm trying to find a guy that fits into what
the Giants needs you. They have that big possession guy
in Isaiah Hodgensay, inside shifty guy in Wanda Robinson, then
they kind of that do everything outside right, couldn't Jig
would be that guy? And if not, maybe not first

(06:07):
round Day two? Who were some of the guys you
like that could fit that receiver type? That Brian Dable
likes that separator that can just get open at all.
So I think he is that, you know, that outside
guy you know that can be your separator. To me,
Jason is just such a clean route runner, you know,
it's that's his processes. He's not the biggest guy, he's
not the fastest guy, but he's always open and that's
what I love about his game to where I think

(06:28):
my comparison for him with Ceedee Lamb. You know, he's
not gonna run by you in terms of straight line speed,
but he's shifty, he's crafty, he's just you know, he's
a quarterback's best friend. I kind of almost like a
Michael Thomas type too. I know it's not as big
besides Michael Thomas, but he gets opened the same way absolutely,
you know. And he's not as fast as Justin Jefferson,
but kind of like that as well, which is a
lofty comparison to make, right, but I do think he

(06:50):
could be that player. I will say I think there's
a falloff this year especially there are a lot of
small guys, a lot of those you know, you know,
there's Zay Flowers, there's Josh Downs, there's Jalen Hyatt, who
we mentioned. There's a lot of players who don't fit
necessarily what you would expect, at least for Dabele and
Shane to look at us, Hey, who's that third receiver

(07:10):
for us? Who's going to fit that role? Well? You
love Brian Dable, Yeah, love Brian. He's one of your guys.
So what do you think he'll be looking for here
to help either the team or the offense specifically, kind
of take that next up and help build around Daniel
Jones a little bit. I mean, I think it's easy
to say they want, you know, hey, we need a
Stefen Diggs kind of guy, but you really kind of
need a Stefend Diggs kind of guy. I think everyone right,

(07:31):
But I think you need the player that win everything's
going wrong. You know, that's where you're going. You know,
Kansas City has it with Travis Kelsey, Philly has it
with a J. Brown, Buffalo has it with Stefan Diggs.
You know, the great offenses have that guy. And so
I think, again that's simplifying things. That player might not
even exist in this draft class. It's a hard part.
So I think, you know, I would bet on traits.

(07:52):
I think someone like Rashi Rice from SMU has definitely
flashed at times to where we see how he runs.
That's the big thing. So that's why you know he
might be available at the end of the second round
because he might not run well, but his tape is
really good and he has a ton of production, So
I think, I mean, that's a name that I would
I would kind of put in that mold of someone
that fits at least the prototypes of what you want
at that position. Could that player be a tight end?

(08:15):
You know you mentioned Travis Kelsey, Yes, it can be.
I just listened to Kincaid in there, who you know,
you watch him on tape. He's a heck of a
route runner. Could the Giants do you think go tight
end in that first round? Do you think it's better, Oh,
maybe Laport is sitting there than the round too. How
would you kind of put that into the mixed strategy? Was?
I do feel like that the game, because of guys

(08:35):
like Travis Kelsey and George Kittle and Mark Andrews, has
changed enough to where your tight end can be your
number one receiver. You know, I mean we're seeing it.
We're seeing teams be really good with it as well,
So I yes, it could be Dalton Kincaide is a
fantastic run after catch tight end. You know I mentioned Kittle.
There's some kittle to what Kinkaid does as a receiver,
not as a blocker, but as a receiver. So I
think that could definitely be intriguing. Same from Michael Mayer.

(08:57):
You know, if you want a middle of the field target,
he's not gonna be that explosive, yak guy like a
Kincaide or Luke Musgrave from Oregon State, but someone that's
just gonna be your your safety event to him a
little bit. I went Tojinson. You know, I didn't want
to go Hall of Famer. Yeah, but I think it's
a pro, you know, a classic in line tight end

(09:18):
who's probably gonna run like a mid four six or
low four seven, but is always open. Yeah, no question
about it. And I think when you look at Joe
Shane's history and Buffalo too right and what they did
up there, they were constantly ticking defensive lineman up front
Realy in the draft. So we started talking about the
Northwestern kid, what other defensive lineman and Joe Shane talked

(09:38):
a lot about the other day, trying to get another
player beside Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams, and Williams on
the last year of his contract to see if they
extend them or not. Who are some of the guys
that could fit into that scheme and system that Wink
runs that could be available at the end of the
first round. Now, yeah, again it's it's a weird year
where the talent doesn't necessarily match your guy's needs. You know,
there's a huge drop off from Jalen Carter to Brian

(10:01):
Brazzi from Clemson, who would probably actually fit that spot.
I think there's those questions there too. This past year,
you know, he dealt with some personal tragedy with the
passing away of his sister, didn't brand answer to the
kidney infection, and then the year before that he tours
ACL So we really haven't seen a healthy Brian Brazi
since it really his freshman season. So if you believe
you can, you know, get him back to where he was,

(10:23):
you know, post injury, post kidney infection, then he certainly
would fit that. And I think his you know, he
looked very good in the workouts on Thursday night, so
I think he's a player that. Yeah, it probably starts
to fit into that late first, early second round. Do
you see him as a three technique? Do you see
him as a five? You know, wing Warndale likes to
play the position was defense. How do you think he fits.

(10:44):
I think he's probably more of a one gap pen.
I think he's more one gap, Yeah, absolutely to me. Yeah,
I think I don't know that he has the quicks
for three technique, not off what we saw last year.
He doesn't have the quicks. So again, you like, who
is this guy right now? I would say body type
and quickness is more five technique, all right, John's also
name in a linebacker here. Yeah, I don't know if
one's gonna go in the first round. You tell me

(11:05):
if you think that's different. I think Sanders looked pretty
good yesterday and the drills he did. I thought Campbell,
even though his you know, his initial forty time didn't
look great when they put out the official, looked better, right,
especially for a guy that size. Could he get to
the Giants second round picture? I think? So, you're right.
The linebackers this year, if one goes in the first,
it'll probably be the late first. Trent and Simpson from

(11:26):
Clemson is tearing it up right now. He's just he
turned to twenty five reps on a bench right before
we sat down, so he's had a great, great workout
for him. I love Drew Sanders. He would be great
for what you guys need, especially someone who can be
had versatile defensive chess piece man. He had like four sacks,
three force fumbles, an interception while leading the team and
tackles last year at Arkansas former Alabama players, so you

(11:48):
know there's a high pedigree there right to be on
Nick Sabment's defense. So I think Sanders would fit. He's
probably not gonna make it all the way back around,
but I do that. Jack Campbell's certainly interesting. Dan Henley
from Washington State little bit on the shorter side compared
to Bruce's six foot five, but he can absolutely move.
Any's versatile. We've seen him rush, We've seen him cover.

(12:08):
He also looks really really really good. Excuse me and drills.
I know as many as six, maybe more corners can
go in the first round, Yet how many gonna be
left when the Giants get the twenty five first of all?
And who fits that? Wink Bartondale? You know, Press Man scheme. Yeah,
I think there will be a couple left. Press Man
this year is a little bit different because the guys
like Emmanuel Forbes, he wait one hundred and seventy three pounds,

(12:30):
he had six picks last year. He's a really good player.
But do you really want him out there, you know,
pressing a J. Brown? I don't, And the Giants already
drafted Cordal flat last year. That so I look at
guys like Deontay Banks at Maryland who is six two,
two hundred plus. He's gonna run and the probably the
four two s low for threes to me like that,
the tape, the body style, that metrics say press man,

(12:52):
my sleeper. I think he's gonna do really well. Here
is DJ Turner from Michigan. The tape's not always great,
but everything I've heard is he's going to fly here.
And he has played that press Man at Michigan, so
it's he's used to doing that. Where are you on
the Kaylee ringo training? Because that training is I don't
want him playing press man. I know that I don't
want him playing press man. I I'm a fan of his.

(13:15):
I can't get the Ohio State game out of my
head though. I mean, and you know what, Marvin Harrison
beats up a lot of people, but he had a
rough game. And I think that game, really, you know,
kind of brought to light some struggles that are just
on his tape as a as a man coverage player. Now,
if you wanted to run cover three, yeah, let's put
Keyley Ringo out there, you know, running a four two
at two hundred and fifteen pounds six foot two. Let

(13:36):
him react and drive on the right. Absolutely, that's where
he's at his best. When he has to put his
back to the ball, bad things are going to happen.
So maybe you put him at free safety. You know,
maybe that's the answer. But it's it's easy to fall
in love with those traits and say, gosh, can we
coach that up, Just like we talked about with the
quarterbacks falling over those traits? Can we coach it up
inter your offensive line? Not that the need for the
Giants here, Yeah, I don't do you think at twenty

(13:59):
five it doesn't feel like feels early and it doesn't
feel like a Joe Shane pick either. He's a guy
that really ye positional value. So if you're looking at
you know, round two, three, maybe even round four. Who
are somebody interior offensive lineman that you think could be
plug and play type guys? I think John Michael Schmidt's
the center from Minnesota. We saw him bump around a
little bit at the Senior Bowl. He's absolutely plug and
play to me. Not sure he gets to the fifties.

(14:19):
Maybe not. Joe Tipman from Wisconsin would probably be the
next option of somebody who you know can can execute
that scheme. You know, he's athletic enough to pull, he's
athletic enough to trap handles himself really well. At the
second level. It's a weak interior offensive line class. I know.
I keep saying that about it all your guys needs.
It hadn't dawned on me until we got here that
the giants needs do not match the talent in this
class necessarily, So interior O line is rough. I think

(14:42):
that's where you're You're digging to find guys that you
think could be year one starters. Now there are certainly
guys that could be year two, year three starters, but
it is a week group of guard. We'll price see
o Cyrus Torrents going the late first, early second. We
might not see another guard until day three. How many
first round grades do you have on player overall? Yeah,
like fifteen sixteen right now? Is that low for you?

(15:03):
Usually average? But I feel like, just to be transparent,
I think there's some reaches this year where you you're
bringing guys up you know traditionally will love us. Anthony Richardson,
I probably wouldn't give a first round grade too, but
you're pulling them up because of Josh Allen, because of
even Daniel Jones the turnaround he made last year. You know,
you're you're looking at traits and football character and football

(15:24):
i Q and saying, Okay, that guy can become the
next Jalen Hurts, Josh Allen, Daniel Jones, and two that's
twenty two. So I do think, yeah, we're probably creating
some first round grades this year. We're the drop off.
So like, if when you get out of that first
tier and then how big is that second group where
at twenty five, does it makes sense for the Chians
to trade back If that next group is really that big?

(15:45):
It honestly might, This might be the year to trade back,
and we'll see what's on the board if anybody wants
to trade up, even at that point. So I think
the drop off this year. There's there are players that
I know I've talked to A Scott about this that
I have a second round grade on this one player
that I really like, and the team has a fourth
round grade man, And it's so like, I feel like
second to fourth round is at this like a hundred

(16:07):
players in that group, you know that everybody's just like yeah,
you know, like they're good, but are they Are they
that good? So that's kind of where we're at this
year where I think, you know, a lot of guys
went back to school because of NIL money, A lot
of people came out last year. We're getting a lot
of the you know, some of the guys who were
COVID years of it made more sense for them to
go back to college for another year. Develop we're getting
those guys this year. And so I think that's why

(16:28):
we see a big draft class that's kind of watered
down on talent. Yeah, finally, I don't want to kill
the class because you can always find good players, right
and absolutely great players, but it does seem like this
probably compared to the last few years, is probably one
of the weaker overall class that you've said, no matter
how you feel about the class, you still have to
draft the players. You know, you're not gonna you're not
gonna punt all your picks because you don't love the class. Right.
So that's where the job of your area scouts is

(16:50):
so important is to find those guys. Hey, find me
the talent, the guys that can fit in our scheme,
or the players who have traits that we can develop.
So you're absolutely right, you know, and I've covered the
twenty thirteen draft that people hated on, the twenty nineteen
draft that people hated on. There are a lot of
really good starters in the NFL from those classes. Yeah,
and they might not be the first twenty picks, right, Absolutely,

(17:10):
go back to the twenty thirteen draft. The second round
picks on much better for success in the first round. Yes,
absolutely so Again, that's the fun part of the job
is finding those guys who are not first rounders. They're
not the stars we're talking about in an NFL Live,
but they're the guys who comes Super Bowl Sunday. You're
talking about a Trey Smith who was a Day three pick,
or a Creed Humphrey who was the second round pick.
And you're realizing or Andrew Wiley, who was a UDFA

(17:33):
and you're talking about how valuable they are to a
super Bowl winning team. Matt, what do you up to
do this week? What should be keeping on running running?
That's all I'm doing this week. So a lot of
NFL Live, We're doing two hour shows. You are in
the forty? Is that what you're saying? No, no, no,
those days are long gone. I would I would be
like JSM with a bad hamstring if that, if I
tried to do that, We'll let Rich eyes and run
the forty. No one else needs to. But no, it's

(17:55):
gonna be a big week, productive week. We're doing combined
primers on ESPN dot com every night, Like last night.
They came out like right when the workout ended. It
was available. So if you are starting to like, you know,
heat up talking about the draft thing and rout the draft,
we definitely have a ton of content out there now.
We'll talk later in the process. Sounds good, buddy. Thank
you Matt Miller, ESPN. Thank you for joining us in
the John's Little Podcast brought by PSC and G. We'll
see you next time.