June 2, 2025 • 18 mins
Barry McGowan, CEO of Fogo de Chão, joins Zack to share his incredible rise from washing dishes to leading a global hospitality brand. With over 40 years in the industry, Barry dives into what real value means for guests, why customization and celebration matter, and how to scale culture while staying people first. He discusses the importance of consistency, how to use pricing as a tool for value not margin, and what every brand should do to stay competitive in today’s market.
- Why hospitality is undergoing a renaissance
- Barry’s long-term pricing and value strategy
- How Fogo trains for five-star service
- The impact of tech vs. human capital
- Who’s leading hospitality innovation today
Thanks to Barry for bringing the fire—literally and figuratively!
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrymcgowan/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/fogo-de-sh-aun/
https://fogodechao.com/
https://www.instagram.com/fogo/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Oates, andeach week I chat with industry
experts to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
Get the insights you need toimprove without an annoying
(00:21):
survey for your guests.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today we have a legend ofthe industry, Barry McGowan, the
CEO of Fogo de Chão for thelast 12 years and a 40-year
incredible career in restaurants, from the bottom to the top and
all around the globe.
This guy did not start off asCEO.
He started off as working therestaurants.
(00:42):
Isn't that right, Barry?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's correct.
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Dishroom to the CEO.
One of those stories,definitely my whole life.
So tell me about this story,man, how do you get from dishes
to CEO?
And, quite frankly, being theCEO myself now, I kind of feel
like it's like going back to thedishes.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Like it is.
It's full circle.
That's a great thing.
Look, I've been in industry mywhole life.
There's nothing else I'd ratherdo To me.
Hospitality and food transcendsculture, language.
Food brings us together.
It's my passion for it.
It's also, I would say it'sbeing around people who, I would
say all of us in our industry,are different, unique, very
(01:21):
diverse, most of us nobody elsewould hire.
So we settled in the restaurantbusiness and we get together.
I mean, we just seem to make itwork, this eclectic group of
people in hospitality, and it's,again, I would say, universal
across the globe.
That's why I think hospitalityis global in nature.
It's not regional or local.
You can be global but act verylocal.
(01:42):
But the industry itself is, aswe learned during COVID, without
it the world is soulless.
So I love this interest Nevergoing to retire someday, not be
a CEO, but when I leave hereI'll just keep investing in
great, great restaurants, greathospitality.
So, zach, I appreciate yourshow, sharing people inside of a
great industry.
That's never going to go away.
We are transforming continuallyand I'd say today you and I are
(02:05):
living in a time this industryis going through immense
transformation and I would sayrenaissance in a good way.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm really excited about what's going on in the
industry.
What are some of the movementsthat you feel like restaurants
should really be dialed into?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I think what I love it's going back to what the
consumer wants.
I mean, I think we went to astyle of we became so process
driven, that price, processearnings, that we forgot, well,
what does the customer want?
So I think competition helpsreinvigorate that.
I think new models have helpeddisrupt it with fast casual now
ellipsing fast food, actuallybringing quality back.
(02:42):
So all those things are goingback to the essence of the
consumer.
So I think that whole goingaround the loop, coming back to
what's most important consumer,your demographic, your location
and ultimately, how todifferentiate and give value for
what you're offering so I thinkthat those staples have never
gone away.
I love that our industry isright back where the consumer
(03:02):
wants us.
So I tell everybody that's whenour industry gets healthier and
stronger, not when a few arewinning or the customer, the
consumer's not winning, theyhave to settle for things.
So now, with so much morechoice, so much more convenience
, even your show, everythingyou're talking about is how to
drive a five-star experience.
I love that Every segment inour industry is thinking about
(03:22):
how to make it better.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And I think when the consumer wins again, I mean it
creates more opportunity for us.
So really excited about thetime.
So, as you look at, use theword value, which is a pretty
hot button topic right now.
A lot of people are talkingabout value.
What does that mean?
What are consumers looking for?
How do you look at value as abrand where you're not like a
four day a week type.
You don't stop in and spend $5a few times a week.
It's a celebration, it's abusiness lunch, it's a date
(03:52):
night.
You don't have a cheapexperience there at Fogo de Chão
.
I'm interested in how you lookat the word value in what you do
.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, it's all relative to the experience, zach
and I would say look, I dine atFogo seven days a week because
it's so good, it's so diverse.
In reality, we have a $10picanha burger that's half pound
fresh ground to an $18 markettable all you can experience, to
the highest indulgent, a Wagyufor $165.
So, depending on your occasion,we have a price point for
(04:21):
everyone at any time and we givethe same level of service.
Service and we usually offer alot more value for your money in
terms of optionality, theability to customize in the
moment and I would say, pricevalue always comes down to it
all together your environmentyou're in the restaurant service
, the quality of ingredient andI would say the differential we
have is the idea to accommodateevery diet tribe in the moment.
(04:43):
So the pure idea ofcustomization in the moment is
where consumers want to be.
Sometimes you just don't knowyou're hungry, you sit down and
then the idea comes to our menuis really a guide on how to dine
.
So while you're sitting thereyou can discover, try new things
and it's not going to changeyour price.
Not many restaurants you can goand say I'll try the lamb chops
(05:03):
hey, tell you what I love someribeye, hey, let me have a piece
of that.
Whatever center cut pork chop.
So those things, I think, arewhat are unique to us.
But I'd even say our strengthis the gathering, the
celebration.
So we know.
But what we love over the last10 years, with innovation, we
brought it up to a weekdaylaunch.
(05:24):
It's fast, immediate, totallycustomizable.
And I would say the reason whyI joined FOGO 12 years ago is
our menu is whole food, nutrientdense items.
So it's not manufactured.
You get to customize in themoment.
So all that variability hasbeen in the trends for 15 years.
But the model itself we've justtaken, and now we continue to
(05:47):
innovate around that to makesure that we create occasions
for you regardless of diet,tribe, all the health view on
whole food, non-processed.
Well, we've been there for 45years.
So good news is the consumer iscatching up with our model.
The demographics are driving it, which is fantastic.
So I would say value is all inthe equation of your occasion.
(06:08):
And how do I give you moreexperience, more quality In
price?
I would say our industry haslearned a valuable lesson.
We've taken two and a halfpercent price on average for the
last 10 years while maintainingmargin very hard to do, but our
model gives us the flexibilityto do that and the reason we say
that is we want to make sure tokeep price value strong
(06:29):
relative to peers and make surethat we continue to add more
value to the guests, to theexperience.
I'll give an example.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
By the way, just to be clear, you've taken price
2.5% a year for the last 18years.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
On average the last 10 years.
So we really created along-term pricing strategy.
Now we've had times where we'vegone up as high as three, three
and a half, but we've rolledoff on average per year.
We're averaging about two and ahalf.
Last five years probably 2.8.
All we're saying is we're very,very cautious on price.
Price is easy if you're doing.
Well, by the way, our traffic'spositive 10 years.
(07:02):
So we didn't say that was anexcuse to take more price.
Well, by the way, our traffic'spositive 10 years.
So we didn't say that was anexcuse to take more price.
We figured out how do we givemore value for the experience.
Because we took price, we addedcandy, bacon free, we had a
grilled cheese and Molly got thehoney in addition to what we do
.
So those little extra, somesums or we call them extra
special indulgent piece that'sincluded start to add further
(07:25):
value for no extra cost.
And that's the way we seepricing should be always in
favor of the guest.
Operationally we work harder oninputs, the way we can serve,
dine and execute, so the guestgets the value, not us.
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I love that.
I think always having thatguest-first mentality is just so
powerful.
And speaking of that, what doyou think are the most important
aspects of guest experiencenowadays?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
The most important aspect, regardless.
I think talk a lot abouttechnology.
It's really the human capital,the personal and emotional
engagement with your consumer.
If you're relying on drivingconsumer engagement just through
your phone and throughtechnology, I don't think our
industry goes there.
I think we talk too much aboutit.
I think we've got to pull itforward to say why am I doing it
(08:11):
?
How do I remove friction sothat I'm really connecting with
my guests?
So I think, ultimately, yourculture is the tip of the spear
with your people.
You're not scaling your cultureand every day and I love your
opening five-star experience.
Literally it's been ourinitiative for the last eight
years Five-star service.
By the way, we're on our fifthyear really programmed five-star
(08:34):
and we see our star ratinggoing up every year.
So I love that whole intro.
It's a pursuit.
Excellence is a pursuit.
You never arrive right.
So I think you've got to havetechnology no-transcript.
(09:08):
We've had operators you know wasthis for over 35 years or area
director level team had beenwith us over 22 and a half years
, and then our GMs have 10 yearsof tenure.
So that tenure passion and wecall it mentorship to scale
culture is really what's mostimportant to us.
Our talent pipeline is threeyears ahead of our growth
(09:30):
pipeline meaning site pipeline.
So we're always focusing onpeople and then we'll find a
great site and transform it, butwe want to put great people in
there and keep growing ourculture.
That's, I think, how youdeliver on the hospitality and,
I would say, your product side.
So that's where we continue tosay is our competitive advantage
.
We haven't cheated that and wehave great owners that have
(09:52):
always supported those efforts.
Bain Capital has beentremendous in the support of us
and working with us to continueto focus more on how we can do
it better, which is great.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I love that and having investors who believe in
that vision is so importantbecause you don't want to get
caught behind a group that isjust trying to gouge, gouge,
gouge and it's dangerous.
I mean you look at so manyrestaurants who were taken over
by the wrong PE groups and whathappened.
I mean you could look at thesetextbook cases of Red Lobster
(10:23):
and Friendly's and these placeswhere they lost the sight of the
vision because they werefocused more on the profits and
in the case, what they weredoing is, you know, you can't
take price and reduce qualityand service and culture and
expect it to work.
It doesn't work and we couldall sit here in the boardroom
and on a podcast and talk aboutthat and think about it.
(10:45):
But man, it's tough when yougot people that are got their
red hot pokers and they'reprodding you along.
It's a challenging environment.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, I would say, zach, you said something.
Look, I even say it's notprivate equity, it's management.
Somewhere in there.
I think private equity is theoil in engine.
They do a great job.
In fact, our industry wouldn'tbe this transformative without
private equity.
That's why I always tellfriends so you just got to make
sure.
The leadership team and this iswhy I go back to bringing
people from within developingleaders, always for the next
(11:16):
level I've been developed bysome of the best in industry
Doug Brooks, just great peopleat Brinker International.
I grew up in a great platformwith people that had my best
interests in mind, and that'sall I'm as a leader today.
Replicating is the idea ofpeople first.
How do you prepare people forthe next level?
How do you scale cultureappropriately so that somebody
in the boardroom says you can'tdo that Private equity?
(11:38):
Who doesn't know the difference?
Learning today is there's somuch evidence out there of how
to do it the wrong way, theplaybook, and this is why I'd
say we're going through arenaissance, meaning there is
tons of private equity in ourspace, more coming.
(11:59):
You see it at different levelsthat are breaking out with new
brands, new ideas.
So I think I would say.
I love your statement.
It really has to go down to,ultimately, the management has
to own it, the ownership.
If you've got a great team inthere, it will basically follow
the lead of the ownership.
I think we just got to keepdeveloping and maturing our next
(12:20):
generation of leadership or anindustry to make it better.
That's what I hope our industrykeeps doing and I see a lot of
it happening with my peer groups.
I see it in the new excitingconcepts coming along and to me
there's so much fun, so manygreat things.
By the way, not just in the US.
It's been a privilege.
We have restaurants all aroundthe world.
I mean the stuff that's goingon in Riyadh and food, the stuff
(12:43):
that's going to the East, southAmerica, asia really great
stuff happening that.
I think our industry is gettingmore exciting by the moment.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So yeah, that is really exciting.
Well, any tactics that youwould recommend to restaurants
to try to improve the guestexperience.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
You bet.
Well, I think tactically youtalk, we talk technology, but I
think tactically go back to thebeginning of your process of
it's going to sound reallyfundamental, but it is
fundamentals.
You know you're hiring,defining your culture and what
values work best and then hiringpeople for values, being really
clear about their path andreally investing heavily there.
(13:20):
That's ultimately what you wantin experience is going to all
determine.
There we say it, cliche it,there's no way around it.
If you're just hiring to fill arole and you're growing fast
and opening restaurants and youhaven't done that, then I'm
telling you it's not sustainable, it's harder and you can't keep
up with it.
By the way, it's not easy forany group that tries to do it.
(13:41):
Invest is just, it's almost afixed cost.
You just got to keep leaning inon that and you got to really
have a view of your talent hasto come from within, where
you're going to dilute yourculture.
It's not rocket science, it'sjust really hard and it's hard
and it takes a long time.
But we really hard and it'shard and it takes a long time,
but we're a 45 year old brandand proves it can happen.
By the way, texas Roadhouse hasdone it beautifully and shown
(14:03):
the way.
The roadies, that culture ispowerful.
Good example Look at Chili's 50year anniversary.
I'm an old Chili head, by theway, ran into Doug Brooks and he
said 50 years and around thebest year spent some time with
Kevin.
I'm so proud of that teambecause that tells me and it
proves to everybody the industryis not broken.
You just got to choose to do itright.
(14:24):
And the consumer, your team,has to win.
But Chili's Texas Roadhouse,great culture, and then there's
so many independents coming updoing the same thing that are
brightening up.
We're a small brand.
We own 83 restaurants inAmerica, 106 global but we're
excited about those biggerbrands that have proven the way
and shown us the way to do it,and that's what we're excited
(14:45):
about.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And people in hospitality.
It's like a lot of people sayyou can't scale hospitality and
we always say there's no otheroption.
Right, there's two.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Darden has done it.
I'll give another.
Give another example dardenmulti-platform doing it really
well.
Gosh brinker, eat brinkercheesecake.
So we have plenty of examplesof everybody doing it right and
scaling it.
Well, yeah, when you don't.
What I love is that we justconvert those sites into fogo
and other new brands.
So that's the idea, so that'sthe beautiful part of industry.
(15:16):
We're not going away, we'rejust getting better.
And if you don't show up andyou don't do those things, then
somebody and I share with ourteam look, if we don't do it
right, somebody is going toconvert our boxes.
So let's keep long, let's focuson doing it right and thinking
long term.
Credit, for we always talkabout the old class or the next
generation.
(15:37):
I go boy, look at the stars,look at the big guy.
Chili's is something thatscream about to say look, when
you do it right, what, how, the,where the consumer wants to be.
Look at what Texas Roadhousekeeps doing.
So those there's a lot ofbright line.
Again, I'm pointing to Darden.
Okay, there's so many greatlegacy brands that are
reinvigorating their brand,reinvesting on the things that
(15:58):
matter most and driving greatguest experience.
Love that Segmentation of theconsumer is what keeps changing,
and that's the exciting part.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Now, Barry, obviously you've had an incredible career
.
You know a lot of people.
Who are some people thatdeserve some shout outs.
Who deserves an ovation?
Who's someone that we should befollowing?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh gosh, there's too many, but here's three.
Because you asked me thisquestion, three come to mind and
probably because maybe it's onthe private equity investment
side, because investing in ourindustry is crucial to scaling
it and transforming it.
But who comes to mind is SavoryAndrew and Shauna Smith.
They're taking new concepts onfounder-operated led and helping
, I would say, partnering withfounders to scale cool ideas.
There's really exciting stuffon their platform.
(16:41):
Emerging Fund technology meetshospitality.
That's next generation.
These guys are everything.
These guys are investing, arefun hospitality and, I would say
, long investing.
And one of my favorite people inthe world is Jack Gibbons from
F&B Society.
So Jack is just an adamantcreator, great hospitality and
(17:03):
he's unafraid.
So you think about those threefolks, those three platforms,
those three groups.
They're just doing great stuffand, by the way, this, as you
know, nothing's new.
So ovation to them, becauseeverything they're trying and
doing with we're all learningfrom and, by the way, it just
makes it better.
It's pretty exciting.
That's where I go back toRenaissance, that's where the
tip of the spear, where allthat's happening and all those
(17:25):
are scalable ideas if doneproperly.
And those three groups, I think, focus on the scalable piece
really well.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and especially it's been amazing
those brands that you mentioned.
It's been amazing those brandsthat you mentioned.
It's been amazing working withthem and seeing them from side
to side and seeing what theirguests are saying about them.
It's not just on the outside,they're doing cool stuff.
I can tell you from looking attheir data on the back end,
using Ovation.
They're doing some amazingthings.
So love those three shout outsthere.
(17:52):
Now, barry, where can people goto find and follow you?
And Fogo to Chow.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, fogocom, pretty simple.
Fogocom, Remember, fogo is fire, so our fire campaign you can
look up.
So Fogo's fire, it's not justyou know the fire emoji whenever
you see it, that's justremember Fogo, that's it.
So that's where we're fire.
I'm just on LinkedIn, butFogocom is how you can reach us.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Awesome.
Well, barry, for reminding ushow to take a great local
experience global.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you so much for joiningus and giving an ovation.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
We appreciate all you do for our industry.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Thanks for joining us today.
If you liked this episode,leave us a review on Apple
Podcasts or your favorite placeto listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Oates, andeach week I chat with industry
experts to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
Get the insights you need toimprove without an annoying
(00:21):
survey for your guests.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today we have a legend ofthe industry, Barry McGowan, the
CEO of Fogo de Chão for thelast 12 years and a 40-year
incredible career in restaurants, from the bottom to the top and
all around the globe.
This guy did not start off asCEO.
He started off as working therestaurants.
(00:42):
Isn't that right, Barry?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's correct.
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Dishroom to the CEO.
One of those stories,definitely my whole life.
So tell me about this story,man, how do you get from dishes
to CEO?
And, quite frankly, being theCEO myself now, I kind of feel
like it's like going back to thedishes.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Like it is.
It's full circle.
That's a great thing.
Look, I've been in industry mywhole life.
There's nothing else I'd ratherdo To me.
Hospitality and food transcendsculture, language.
Food brings us together.
It's my passion for it.
It's also, I would say it'sbeing around people who, I would
say all of us in our industry,are different, unique, very
(01:21):
diverse, most of us nobody elsewould hire.
So we settled in the restaurantbusiness and we get together.
I mean, we just seem to make itwork, this eclectic group of
people in hospitality, and it's,again, I would say, universal
across the globe.
That's why I think hospitalityis global in nature.
It's not regional or local.
You can be global but act verylocal.
(01:42):
But the industry itself is, aswe learned during COVID, without
it the world is soulless.
So I love this interest Nevergoing to retire someday, not be
a CEO, but when I leave hereI'll just keep investing in
great, great restaurants, greathospitality.
So, zach, I appreciate yourshow, sharing people inside of a
great industry.
That's never going to go away.
We are transforming continuallyand I'd say today you and I are
(02:05):
living in a time this industryis going through immense
transformation and I would sayrenaissance in a good way.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm really excited about what's going on in the
industry.
What are some of the movementsthat you feel like restaurants
should really be dialed into?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I think what I love it's going back to what the
consumer wants.
I mean, I think we went to astyle of we became so process
driven, that price, processearnings, that we forgot, well,
what does the customer want?
So I think competition helpsreinvigorate that.
I think new models have helpeddisrupt it with fast casual now
ellipsing fast food, actuallybringing quality back.
(02:42):
So all those things are goingback to the essence of the
consumer.
So I think that whole goingaround the loop, coming back to
what's most important consumer,your demographic, your location
and ultimately, how todifferentiate and give value for
what you're offering so I thinkthat those staples have never
gone away.
I love that our industry isright back where the consumer
(03:02):
wants us.
So I tell everybody that's whenour industry gets healthier and
stronger, not when a few arewinning or the customer, the
consumer's not winning, theyhave to settle for things.
So now, with so much morechoice, so much more convenience
, even your show, everythingyou're talking about is how to
drive a five-star experience.
I love that Every segment inour industry is thinking about
(03:22):
how to make it better.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And I think when the consumer wins again, I mean it
creates more opportunity for us.
So really excited about thetime.
So, as you look at, use theword value, which is a pretty
hot button topic right now.
A lot of people are talkingabout value.
What does that mean?
What are consumers looking for?
How do you look at value as abrand where you're not like a
four day a week type.
You don't stop in and spend $5a few times a week.
It's a celebration, it's abusiness lunch, it's a date
(03:52):
night.
You don't have a cheapexperience there at Fogo de Chão
.
I'm interested in how you lookat the word value in what you do
.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, it's all relative to the experience, zach
and I would say look, I dine atFogo seven days a week because
it's so good, it's so diverse.
In reality, we have a $10picanha burger that's half pound
fresh ground to an $18 markettable all you can experience, to
the highest indulgent, a Wagyufor $165.
So, depending on your occasion,we have a price point for
(04:21):
everyone at any time and we givethe same level of service.
Service and we usually offer alot more value for your money in
terms of optionality, theability to customize in the
moment and I would say, pricevalue always comes down to it
all together your environmentyou're in the restaurant service
, the quality of ingredient andI would say the differential we
have is the idea to accommodateevery diet tribe in the moment.
(04:43):
So the pure idea ofcustomization in the moment is
where consumers want to be.
Sometimes you just don't knowyou're hungry, you sit down and
then the idea comes to our menuis really a guide on how to dine
.
So while you're sitting thereyou can discover, try new things
and it's not going to changeyour price.
Not many restaurants you can goand say I'll try the lamb chops
(05:03):
hey, tell you what I love someribeye, hey, let me have a piece
of that.
Whatever center cut pork chop.
So those things, I think, arewhat are unique to us.
But I'd even say our strengthis the gathering, the
celebration.
So we know.
But what we love over the last10 years, with innovation, we
brought it up to a weekdaylaunch.
(05:24):
It's fast, immediate, totallycustomizable.
And I would say the reason whyI joined FOGO 12 years ago is
our menu is whole food, nutrientdense items.
So it's not manufactured.
You get to customize in themoment.
So all that variability hasbeen in the trends for 15 years.
But the model itself we've justtaken, and now we continue to
(05:47):
innovate around that to makesure that we create occasions
for you regardless of diet,tribe, all the health view on
whole food, non-processed.
Well, we've been there for 45years.
So good news is the consumer iscatching up with our model.
The demographics are driving it, which is fantastic.
So I would say value is all inthe equation of your occasion.
(06:08):
And how do I give you moreexperience, more quality In
price?
I would say our industry haslearned a valuable lesson.
We've taken two and a halfpercent price on average for the
last 10 years while maintainingmargin very hard to do, but our
model gives us the flexibilityto do that and the reason we say
that is we want to make sure tokeep price value strong
(06:29):
relative to peers and make surethat we continue to add more
value to the guests, to theexperience.
I'll give an example.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
By the way, just to be clear, you've taken price
2.5% a year for the last 18years.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
On average the last 10 years.
So we really created along-term pricing strategy.
Now we've had times where we'vegone up as high as three, three
and a half, but we've rolledoff on average per year.
We're averaging about two and ahalf.
Last five years probably 2.8.
All we're saying is we're very,very cautious on price.
Price is easy if you're doing.
Well, by the way, our traffic'spositive 10 years.
(07:02):
So we didn't say that was anexcuse to take more price.
Well, by the way, our traffic'spositive 10 years.
So we didn't say that was anexcuse to take more price.
We figured out how do we givemore value for the experience.
Because we took price, we addedcandy, bacon free, we had a
grilled cheese and Molly got thehoney in addition to what we do
.
So those little extra, somesums or we call them extra
special indulgent piece that'sincluded start to add further
(07:25):
value for no extra cost.
And that's the way we seepricing should be always in
favor of the guest.
Operationally we work harder oninputs, the way we can serve,
dine and execute, so the guestgets the value, not us.
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I love that.
I think always having thatguest-first mentality is just so
powerful.
And speaking of that, what doyou think are the most important
aspects of guest experiencenowadays?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
The most important aspect, regardless.
I think talk a lot abouttechnology.
It's really the human capital,the personal and emotional
engagement with your consumer.
If you're relying on drivingconsumer engagement just through
your phone and throughtechnology, I don't think our
industry goes there.
I think we talk too much aboutit.
I think we've got to pull itforward to say why am I doing it
(08:11):
?
How do I remove friction sothat I'm really connecting with
my guests?
So I think, ultimately, yourculture is the tip of the spear
with your people.
You're not scaling your cultureand every day and I love your
opening five-star experience.
Literally it's been ourinitiative for the last eight
years Five-star service.
By the way, we're on our fifthyear really programmed five-star
(08:34):
and we see our star ratinggoing up every year.
So I love that whole intro.
It's a pursuit.
Excellence is a pursuit.
You never arrive right.
So I think you've got to havetechnology no-transcript.
(09:08):
We've had operators you know wasthis for over 35 years or area
director level team had beenwith us over 22 and a half years
, and then our GMs have 10 yearsof tenure.
So that tenure passion and wecall it mentorship to scale
culture is really what's mostimportant to us.
Our talent pipeline is threeyears ahead of our growth
(09:30):
pipeline meaning site pipeline.
So we're always focusing onpeople and then we'll find a
great site and transform it, butwe want to put great people in
there and keep growing ourculture.
That's, I think, how youdeliver on the hospitality and,
I would say, your product side.
So that's where we continue tosay is our competitive advantage
.
We haven't cheated that and wehave great owners that have
(09:52):
always supported those efforts.
Bain Capital has beentremendous in the support of us
and working with us to continueto focus more on how we can do
it better, which is great.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I love that and having investors who believe in
that vision is so importantbecause you don't want to get
caught behind a group that isjust trying to gouge, gouge,
gouge and it's dangerous.
I mean you look at so manyrestaurants who were taken over
by the wrong PE groups and whathappened.
I mean you could look at thesetextbook cases of Red Lobster
(10:23):
and Friendly's and these placeswhere they lost the sight of the
vision because they werefocused more on the profits and
in the case, what they weredoing is, you know, you can't
take price and reduce qualityand service and culture and
expect it to work.
It doesn't work and we couldall sit here in the boardroom
and on a podcast and talk aboutthat and think about it.
(10:45):
But man, it's tough when yougot people that are got their
red hot pokers and they'reprodding you along.
It's a challenging environment.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Well, I would say, zach, you said something.
Look, I even say it's notprivate equity, it's management.
Somewhere in there.
I think private equity is theoil in engine.
They do a great job.
In fact, our industry wouldn'tbe this transformative without
private equity.
That's why I always tellfriends so you just got to make
sure.
The leadership team and this iswhy I go back to bringing
people from within developingleaders, always for the next
(11:16):
level I've been developed bysome of the best in industry
Doug Brooks, just great peopleat Brinker International.
I grew up in a great platformwith people that had my best
interests in mind, and that'sall I'm as a leader today.
Replicating is the idea ofpeople first.
How do you prepare people forthe next level?
How do you scale cultureappropriately so that somebody
in the boardroom says you can'tdo that Private equity?
(11:38):
Who doesn't know the difference?
Learning today is there's somuch evidence out there of how
to do it the wrong way, theplaybook, and this is why I'd
say we're going through arenaissance, meaning there is
tons of private equity in ourspace, more coming.
(11:59):
You see it at different levelsthat are breaking out with new
brands, new ideas.
So I think I would say.
I love your statement.
It really has to go down to,ultimately, the management has
to own it, the ownership.
If you've got a great team inthere, it will basically follow
the lead of the ownership.
I think we just got to keepdeveloping and maturing our next
(12:20):
generation of leadership or anindustry to make it better.
That's what I hope our industrykeeps doing and I see a lot of
it happening with my peer groups.
I see it in the new excitingconcepts coming along and to me
there's so much fun, so manygreat things.
By the way, not just in the US.
It's been a privilege.
We have restaurants all aroundthe world.
I mean the stuff that's goingon in Riyadh and food, the stuff
(12:43):
that's going to the East, southAmerica, asia really great
stuff happening that.
I think our industry is gettingmore exciting by the moment.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
So yeah, that is really exciting.
Well, any tactics that youwould recommend to restaurants
to try to improve the guestexperience.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
You bet.
Well, I think tactically youtalk, we talk technology, but I
think tactically go back to thebeginning of your process of
it's going to sound reallyfundamental, but it is
fundamentals.
You know you're hiring,defining your culture and what
values work best and then hiringpeople for values, being really
clear about their path andreally investing heavily there.
(13:20):
That's ultimately what you wantin experience is going to all
determine.
There we say it, cliche it,there's no way around it.
If you're just hiring to fill arole and you're growing fast
and opening restaurants and youhaven't done that, then I'm
telling you it's not sustainable, it's harder and you can't keep
up with it.
By the way, it's not easy forany group that tries to do it.
(13:41):
Invest is just, it's almost afixed cost.
You just got to keep leaning inon that and you got to really
have a view of your talent hasto come from within, where
you're going to dilute yourculture.
It's not rocket science, it'sjust really hard and it's hard
and it takes a long time.
But we really hard and it'shard and it takes a long time,
but we're a 45 year old brandand proves it can happen.
By the way, texas Roadhouse hasdone it beautifully and shown
(14:03):
the way.
The roadies, that culture ispowerful.
Good example Look at Chili's 50year anniversary.
I'm an old Chili head, by theway, ran into Doug Brooks and he
said 50 years and around thebest year spent some time with
Kevin.
I'm so proud of that teambecause that tells me and it
proves to everybody the industryis not broken.
You just got to choose to do itright.
(14:24):
And the consumer, your team,has to win.
But Chili's Texas Roadhouse,great culture, and then there's
so many independents coming updoing the same thing that are
brightening up.
We're a small brand.
We own 83 restaurants inAmerica, 106 global but we're
excited about those biggerbrands that have proven the way
and shown us the way to do it,and that's what we're excited
(14:45):
about.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And people in hospitality.
It's like a lot of people sayyou can't scale hospitality and
we always say there's no otheroption.
Right, there's two.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Darden has done it.
I'll give another.
Give another example dardenmulti-platform doing it really
well.
Gosh brinker, eat brinkercheesecake.
So we have plenty of examplesof everybody doing it right and
scaling it.
Well, yeah, when you don't.
What I love is that we justconvert those sites into fogo
and other new brands.
So that's the idea, so that'sthe beautiful part of industry.
(15:16):
We're not going away, we'rejust getting better.
And if you don't show up andyou don't do those things, then
somebody and I share with ourteam look, if we don't do it
right, somebody is going toconvert our boxes.
So let's keep long, let's focuson doing it right and thinking
long term.
Credit, for we always talkabout the old class or the next
generation.
(15:37):
I go boy, look at the stars,look at the big guy.
Chili's is something thatscream about to say look, when
you do it right, what, how, the,where the consumer wants to be.
Look at what Texas Roadhousekeeps doing.
So those there's a lot ofbright line.
Again, I'm pointing to Darden.
Okay, there's so many greatlegacy brands that are
reinvigorating their brand,reinvesting on the things that
(15:58):
matter most and driving greatguest experience.
Love that Segmentation of theconsumer is what keeps changing,
and that's the exciting part.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Now, Barry, obviously you've had an incredible career
.
You know a lot of people.
Who are some people thatdeserve some shout outs.
Who deserves an ovation?
Who's someone that we should befollowing?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh gosh, there's too many, but here's three.
Because you asked me thisquestion, three come to mind and
probably because maybe it's onthe private equity investment
side, because investing in ourindustry is crucial to scaling
it and transforming it.
But who comes to mind is SavoryAndrew and Shauna Smith.
They're taking new concepts onfounder-operated led and helping
, I would say, partnering withfounders to scale cool ideas.
There's really exciting stuffon their platform.
(16:41):
Emerging Fund technology meetshospitality.
That's next generation.
These guys are everything.
These guys are investing, arefun hospitality and, I would say
, long investing.
And one of my favorite people inthe world is Jack Gibbons from
F&B Society.
So Jack is just an adamantcreator, great hospitality and
(17:03):
he's unafraid.
So you think about those threefolks, those three platforms,
those three groups.
They're just doing great stuffand, by the way, this, as you
know, nothing's new.
So ovation to them, becauseeverything they're trying and
doing with we're all learningfrom and, by the way, it just
makes it better.
It's pretty exciting.
That's where I go back toRenaissance, that's where the
tip of the spear, where allthat's happening and all those
(17:25):
are scalable ideas if doneproperly.
And those three groups, I think, focus on the scalable piece
really well.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and especially it's been amazing
those brands that you mentioned.
It's been amazing those brandsthat you mentioned.
It's been amazing working withthem and seeing them from side
to side and seeing what theirguests are saying about them.
It's not just on the outside,they're doing cool stuff.
I can tell you from looking attheir data on the back end,
using Ovation.
They're doing some amazingthings.
So love those three shout outsthere.
(17:52):
Now, barry, where can people goto find and follow you?
And Fogo to Chow.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, fogocom, pretty simple.
Fogocom, Remember, fogo is fire, so our fire campaign you can
look up.
So Fogo's fire, it's not justyou know the fire emoji whenever
you see it, that's justremember Fogo, that's it.
So that's where we're fire.
I'm just on LinkedIn, butFogocom is how you can reach us.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Awesome.
Well, barry, for reminding ushow to take a great local
experience global.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you so much for joiningus and giving an ovation.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
We appreciate all you do for our industry.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Thanks for joining us today.
If you liked this episode,leave us a review on Apple
Podcasts or your favorite placeto listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
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