March 31, 2025 • 18 mins
Chris Schultz, CEO of Voodoo Doughnut, joins Zack to share how the brand’s rebellious spirit and cult following stem from bold choices and intentional culture. With decades of experience in hospitality, Chris explores how staying weird can still mean staying operationally sharp.
- Creating a culture that celebrates personality and creativity
- Empowering team members to deliver standout guest experiences
- Turning failures into conversation starters and brand loyalty
- Why engagement and heart matter more than speed
- Building human connection in every guest interaction
- Tune in to hear how Voodoo Doughnut keeps the magic alive while scaling the brand.
Thanks, Chris!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests with all the
(00:20):
questions.
And today we have Chris Schultzon the podcast with us.
He is the CEO at Voodoo Donuts,but he is no noob to the
restaurant industry.
He's been at Starbucks 13 years, mod nine years.
I mean, he has got experienceand he's been CEO of Voodoo for
over seven years.
Now.
You hit your seven yearanniversary recently, right yeah
(00:42):
it kind of just flew by.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
But yeah, seven, almost eight years now coming up
on eight years here at Zoodoo,so it's been a kind of whirlwind
.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's awesome and you're doing some amazing things
.
You have such a you're at thehelm of such a cool brand, and
one of the things that I kind ofwant to unpack is a little bit
of the secret sauce.
Here and right before thepodcast, we were showing off our
respective hats and you showedme a hat.
Tell me the story of this,because I feel like this
(01:12):
encapsulates so much of whyVoodoo is doing so well and why
you're constantly trying newthings and how you celebrate
that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, so I'm a consumer, just like everybody
else.
You're a consumer, we're allconsumers, right?
And you go to brands and yousee what they do well, and then
you shamelessly steal as bestyou can, right?
You're like how do we make itour own?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
That's called R&D, which is Rob and Duplicate.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Exactly.
And I was at a concept there inSalt Lake and they had put up
all their one-star Yelp reviewson wallpaper in their bathroom
this place is horrible, thefood's terrible and I was like,
okay, they're accepting the factthat this is what it is.
And so I came back to my teamand challenged them like what
can we do?
That reminisces that.
So we at Voodoo try a lot ofdonuts.
(01:59):
Not all work.
We're kind of famously knownfor doing a NyQuil donut.
Back in the day we put NyQuil ona donut.
We put that Bismalt on a donut,like real NyQuil and
Pepto-Bismol.
Oh, do you not know this story?
So back in the day the foundersactually made a NyQuil donut.
So they put NyQuil in thefrosting and then you would get
a shot glass full of NyQuilalong with the donut.
(02:21):
And they sold it for a day.
And the FDA came in and said,hey, just a heads up, that
little thing on the side of thebottle is a warning.
You cannot put medicine in food.
You can't do that.
And the founders beingmarketers they were they went to
the local paper and said, hey,the FDA, the man's trying to
stop us, right, we're just thislittle donut shop in Portland
(02:44):
and they got a ton of pressurefrom it.
Just a ton of press and so theyneed to tap the Bismol Donuts.
There's an oyster house rightnext to our first store.
They would run over and get afresh oyster every time someone
ordered an oyster donut.
We've done a salmon donut.
We've just done it.
Most recently we did a srirachadonut.
It was maple glazed withsriracha on the top and fresh
(03:05):
ground ramen.
We put sriracha on it.
Historically it was around$4.20.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Surprise, but we do a lot of donuts.
I don't get it.
Why?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah I know Some work and some don't, but what we did
was we ended up making our ownwallpaper with all of our donut
failures, everything that youwould imagine just didn't work.
So now in most of our storesthere's a wall somewhere with
this wallpaper with all thesecrazy donuts that you're like
that can't be a donut.
Yeah, we tried those, and sowe're sure we have a hack that
(03:36):
actually has all the donuts onthem.
All the different donuts we'vedone.
We put slingin' on a donut, weput salmon on a donut.
We've tried everything.
You name it.
We've tried it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
One, why do you do that?
And two, I want to make a pointabout the failure which I think
is amazing.
The question is why not right,I think, when you put
limitations on yourself?
Wait, why not put NyQuil on adonut?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, chris, yeah, well listen, I think there are
extremes, there are curves andwe've jumped a few curves but
we're on a palliative ourselves.
We don't apologize for muchhere at Voodoo.
We're in the donut business.
Let's just be honest.
We feed people and we feed themreally good donuts and why not
have some fun with it?
And I think a lot of peoplehave kind of tracked in behind
(04:17):
us.
Think of some of these icecream shops that have turkey
gravy ice cream and all thosethings that think about it.
10 years ago you would havebeen like what Ben and Jerry's
kind of started it, but allthese unique donut shops or ice
cream shops are now doing it.
I like to think we're in theforefront of that.
Nike will probably be a littlebit far, but pushing the
envelope a little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, you got to push the envelope to know when it's
going to open.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, and someone will tell us it's too far, as
the FDA did for us, but it'sjust part of having fun and part
of innovation and part of nottaking yourself too seriously
and really kind of enjoying thejourney.
It's fun for our team, it's funfor our customers, it gives
them something to talk about and, again, if you're not failing,
you're not trying, and it's sucha powerful tool to encourage
(05:04):
your team to fail and you knowto fail within boundaries and,
in the case of NyQuil, to failreally quickly and then stop it.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
But those are things that I think are so powerful
when you're able to teach themthat, hey, failure is okay.
What's not okay is not tryingnew things.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
One of the messages I tell my team every once in a
while, I'm not saying what wereyou thinking?
You're not thinking enough,you're just not thinking enough.
And so we challenge our storemanagers, we challenge everybody
in the building that if, everyonce in a while, chris isn't
saying what are you thinking,what were you thinking?
You're not thinking enough.
You're not.
We're people serving people,right, we're in the restaurant
(05:46):
business and everyone has theirown ideas.
And again, bring them to life,let them breathe.
We have some great donuts thatare marketing team and then our
HR team, and they come up withreally good ideas Like, well,
let's try it, let's taste it,let's see what happens.
So innovation doesn't just comefrom one person or from one
idea, right, I think in therestaurant business, you have to
be willing to listen toeverybody, including our
customers.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, there we go.
Powerful lesson, so let's talkabout those customers.
What do you think is the mostimportant aspect of guest
experience nowadays, chris?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I think that today, in today's world, right, the
guest experience is becomingmore and more important, right?
I mean, we talked about, wewent through COVID.
I think a lot of people thought, boy, you know, ghost kitchens
and walk-up windows anddrive-thrus and all those things
were going to be.
That was going to be our new,the way we're going to live our
lives in the restaurant business.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
By the way, thank you for not saying the new N.
It's like what is like?
Oh my gosh, if I hear that wordone more time.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and I think we all thought that was going to be
the world, and I think, withthe reality, as we all learned,
it's not the end of the world,right, that's not the way it's
going.
It's back about engagement, andengagement can also happen in a
drive-thru, it can happen in awalk-up window, it can happen in
a pickup.
All that can happen in thoseexperiences as well, and we
(06:59):
forgot, I think, at some pointin time, that we're still humans
and we like the humanconnection.
We like the human experience.
I was just reading aninteresting quote that came out
of Brett Ecava and he said 64%of his customers want human
engagement.
They require human engagement.
It just came out yesterday andI was like, well, that's really
interesting, right, where he'sdone a study where a big portion
(07:20):
of his customers still want theengagement.
They don't want to talk to akiosk, they want to engage.
And so for us, I think theimportant part of Voodoo,
especially for us, it's aboutthe experience.
Many times you go to Voodoo andwe're long lines.
There's no doubt about it.
We drive long lines and ifyou're going to stay in line for
30 minutes, you better getengagement when you walk in the
(07:40):
door.
And engagement comes fromeverything from, not just the
counter person, right the music,the lighting, everything it
feels that's going on insidethat store.
So for us, it's all about thatengagement right now.
Right, if you want to take anhour ordering a dozen donuts,
take an hour, take an hour, youdeserve it.
Take as long as you want.
We don't have timers, I don'ttrack ticket times.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, and maybe I should right.
Maybe I'm crazy, but remember Icame from a world of ticket
times Starbucks ticket times,right, mod pizza ticket times.
How fast could you move peoplethrough and not make it just a
transaction?
Well, that's a happy balance.
Right At Voodoo, I never wantedto be a transaction, I wanted
to be as fast or slow as youwant it to be, and so that's
where I think the new consumeris going and I think we're all
(08:26):
starting to recognize that.
You know more and more and more.
And it's not just about I wantto order my phone, I want it
really quick.
Some customers do, we have to,we have to gap to those
customers, but there's a wholepart of those customers who
still want someone to say helloand goodbye.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I can't agree with you more, chris, and longtime
listeners will be able to recitethis with me, but I really do
believe that there's three conswhen it comes to loyalty.
There's the convenience, whichis gonna get them in, there's
the consistency, which is gonnaget them back, and there's the
connection, which is reallygonna keep them for a lifetime.
And if you're in thatconsistency which is, by the way
(09:01):
, darn hard to be fullyconsistent If you're there,
you're still replaceable.
You're still just one mistakeaway from getting out of the
rotation for a year, but if youhave that connection, that
mistake is forgiven so muchfaster because they know that
(09:22):
that brand cares about them, andif they know that you care
about them, they're going tocare so much more about you.
If you don't care about them,they'll care a lot less about
them, and if they know that youcare about them, they're going
to care so much more about youIf you don't care about them,
they'll care a lot less aboutyou.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, I think the reality of it is we're all not
watching our dollars when wespend them, and so that
connection becomes even moreimportant now than it ever was.
And the best message I've heardis they said I went to, we had
a great time.
I said what'd you get?
And they're like I don't evenknow the donuts I got.
I don't remember, but Iremember I had a lot of fun and
to me that's a win.
Right, that's a win.
(09:52):
I mean, everyone can tell meabout the great bacon maple bar
we made, but tell me about theexperience you had.
I'm much more excited when youtell me I went, I had a great
time.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Think about this right.
How many places sell donuts?
Can someone go into a VoodooDonut and make a bootleg copy of
your maple bacon bar?
Yeah, sure they can.
Yes, there's maple bacon bars.
The question is, why do peoplewait when there's 20 donut shops
within a 15-minute drive that Ican get my donuts?
(10:24):
Come back to Voodoo Donutsbecause convenience is
superseded by consistency andconnection.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I agree.
I mean we're blessed and wehave many stores where there's
long lines to get in.
It'll be 30 minutes, 40 minutesto get in to get a donut.
When I first started visitingVoodoo I was with Maude.
I was like why am I standing inthis line for 30 minutes to get
a donut?
I'm in the restaurant business.
It better be good.
And then I went in and again, Ithink it's all encompassing.
It's not only the experience ofthe person on the counter, but
(10:55):
is the music right?
Is there something for me tolook at?
Do I feel it right?
There's an element that I stolefrom Howard Beard I worked for
at Starbucks, where the wallstalk.
Right.
What do the walls tell you whenyou walk in a place and you go
to someone's house and it couldbe an old friend you walk in.
You're like, oh, there'ssomething going on here.
I don't know what it is, butthere's something going on.
(11:15):
Or you walk in someone's homeor a car and there's something
good going on.
You're like, oh man, I feel it.
And so we talked a lot aboutthat.
Routines is what do the wallstell you when you walk in a
store?
And then what would consumerssay when they walk?
Do they feel like good thingsare happening?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
It's just a vibe I think you get and it's hard to
do, but when it happens it'sjust magic.
I love that and I think aboutit too A lot of times if there's
places where there's going tobe weights.
Right, because consumers by theway, just to be very clear,
consumers do complain aboutweight, but a lot less often
(11:51):
than you think.
If you look at the data of waittimes, where the biggest
frustration is is with pickup orwith delivery.
And when they say I waited toolong for my food, what their
meaning is?
I ordered my food.
You said it would be to my doorin 30 minutes and it didn't get
here until 50 minutes.
(12:11):
Or you said my order be readyat one o'clock and I showed up
at one o'clock and it wasn'tready until 1.15.
That 15 minutes of unexpectedis so much worse than 30 minutes
of waiting in line expecting it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
That's interesting and, as you said, that I'm kind
of nodding my head because muchworse than 30 minutes of waiting
in line expecting it.
That's interesting and, as yousaid, that I'm kind of nodding
my head because it's exactlywhat we find is that exact
message, which is you know, we'dall love for people to come in
our stores so we can controlfrom start to finish.
We all would love that.
The reality is, that's not theworld we're in.
We're just not in that world.
All of us, I think cumulativelyin the restaurant business,
(12:49):
have to accept that.
And how do we do a better jobof that?
And then, how do we recoverthat guest when things aren't
great, right?
I mean, I think you guys do agreat job of helping companies
like ours do that.
How do you recover thatcustomer when they're waiting 30
minutes for their donuts and ittakes an hour, and now they're
angry and they're not sure to beangry.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Exactly?
Who takes the blame?
The logo on the box of course.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Of course, because I'm a consumer and what happens
to me.
I feel that same thing and Iknow how it works.
So it's like going to a movieand watching, knowing how the
movie the magic of the movie'smade and being disappointed like
I know all the magic's made.
I know what to expect.
But you're absolutely right andyou know, I think you know
organizations like what you'redoing today with Ovation are
(13:36):
allowing us to be able tocapture those customers that
have a bad experience andcapture them quickly, right
Before they can go off and tellyou know, the neighbors at the
soccer tournament.
Hey.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I just ordered from here and it was not very good.
Well, because a human who feelslike they have not, that they
didn't get what they paid for,especially in the current
environment people are OK payingmore.
They're not OK paying more andnot getting what they paid for.
That's the danger.
And so if you can capture thatguest and make sure that they
feel heard, you can eithercontrol that narrative with them
(14:14):
and that conversation, or theywill go feel heard someplace
else.
And if they want to feel heardon Yelp, it's their prerogative.
If they want to feel heard at asoccer tournament, that's their
choice.
But if you could get in frontof that, you can have a much
more productive conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But if you could get in front of that, you could have
a much more productiveconversation.
Absolutely, it's the key.
It's the absolute key.
And listen, I'd love to be ableto capture every customer that
has a bad experience and mepersonally speak to them.
It's not the reality of theworld we're living in and again,
you guys, innovation help us dojust that Is how do we know
when everyone's had a badexperience and now we can get
ahead of it?
The how do we know wheneveryone's had a bad experience
(14:51):
and now we can get ahead of it?
The customer that I lay awakeat night and think about are the
ones that don't say anything,just have a bad experience and
walk away and don't come back.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And Chris, do you want to know why they don't say
anything?
You, as a customer, why don'tyou say things every time?
You have a bad experience.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
If you ask my wife she'll tell you, because I
always have a bad experience,because there's always something
I think you're better, right,and she's tired of hearing me
complain, but there's not anoutlet for it, right, and I
think it's just going to fall ondeaf ears.
I've already spent my timewaiting for the product.
I've already paid for it.
Now you want it to go above andbeyond.
It has to be convenient for meto do, otherwise I'm not doing
(15:23):
it.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And again, that's where every business decision
starts with that first con ofconvenience.
It's a transaction.
Me giving Voodoo Donutsfeedback is a transaction.
You are asking me for somethingand I don't know what I'm going
to get for it.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, no, 100%.
I know we're coming up on timehere, Chris.
(15:44):
We didn't even get to talkabout some tactics, but I know
we got to have you back on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You's nice, that's very kind.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And you've got too much good experience to share it
all in one podcast, so let'shave you back on for part two,
chris, all right, you got it,but I do have a couple more
questions.
Who deserves an ovation in therestaurant industry?
Who is someone that we shouldbe following?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, listen, I think Shana and Andrew Smith are
doing an amazing job with theSavory Group.
I mean just an amazing job,right?
Every brand's important andevery brand feels uniquely
different, and that's hard whenyou have a stable of brands.
Yeah, right, because you startto feel the same experience in a
stable of brands and not tobeat down some of our big boys
and co-branding their big boysright, I don't want ice cream
and chicken at the same stop.
(16:31):
Or taco and chicken.
I'm sorry, but just dosomething well and do it really
good.
And I think the folks over atSavory and again Andrew and
Shauna being the lead of thathave done an amazing job with
helping bringing brands to life,helping them grow.
So they deserve an ovation frommy seat.
They're just doing an amazingjob.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Love it.
I grow, so they deserve anovation from my seat.
They're just doing an amazingjob.
Love it.
I was hanging out with Shaunalast week.
I mean they're such a coolgroup and I learn from them
every time I talk to them.
In fact, when I used to havelong hair, Andrew actually
taught me how to do my hair.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I don't have that problem.
But yeah, I don't need to talkto Andrew about that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But yeah, I know they're doing it.
If those that don't know thebrands and the saving group is
just doing a great job.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, amen, chris.
Where can people go to followand find Voodoo Donuts and you?
Yeah, so VoodooDonutcom onInstagram.
We have about 260,000 followers, believe it or not, for a
little donut shop out ofPortland.
Those are the two placesthey'll find us.
And for me, I don't have a bigsocial following.
I know everyone tells me I'mcrazy, but I, very simply, if I
tell everybody I'm just Chris atVoodooDonutcom and people can
email me anytime, anywhere, Ialways respond.
(17:40):
But yeah, I don't have a bigsocial following.
They tell me I have a facialradio.
So I'm just kind of you know.
I think it should fall in linewith social media as well oh,
and for those who aren'tfamiliar with the brand, voodoo
Donuts.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
They spell donuts, the original way, which is dog
like a real dough.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
You have to have dough to make a donut.
Yes, you don't need the nuts,you need the dough, yeah, so so,
just so everyone's aware of howto do that.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
But go check them out .
And, chris, for teaching us themagic of Voodoo Donuts.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you for joining us onGive an Ovation.
Thanks, zach.
Thanks for joining us today.
If you liked this episode,leave us a review on Apple
Podcasts or your favorite placeto listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
(18:30):
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests with all the
(00:20):
questions.
And today we have Chris Schultzon the podcast with us.
He is the CEO at Voodoo Donuts,but he is no noob to the
restaurant industry.
He's been at Starbucks 13 years, mod nine years.
I mean, he has got experienceand he's been CEO of Voodoo for
over seven years.
Now.
You hit your seven yearanniversary recently, right yeah
(00:42):
it kind of just flew by.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
But yeah, seven, almost eight years now coming up
on eight years here at Zoodoo,so it's been a kind of whirlwind
.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's awesome and you're doing some amazing things
.
You have such a you're at thehelm of such a cool brand, and
one of the things that I kind ofwant to unpack is a little bit
of the secret sauce.
Here and right before thepodcast, we were showing off our
respective hats and you showedme a hat.
Tell me the story of this,because I feel like this
(01:12):
encapsulates so much of whyVoodoo is doing so well and why
you're constantly trying newthings and how you celebrate
that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, so I'm a consumer, just like everybody
else.
You're a consumer, we're allconsumers, right?
And you go to brands and yousee what they do well, and then
you shamelessly steal as bestyou can, right?
You're like how do we make itour own?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
That's called R&D, which is Rob and Duplicate.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Exactly.
And I was at a concept there inSalt Lake and they had put up
all their one-star Yelp reviewson wallpaper in their bathroom
this place is horrible, thefood's terrible and I was like,
okay, they're accepting the factthat this is what it is.
And so I came back to my teamand challenged them like what
can we do?
That reminisces that.
So we at Voodoo try a lot ofdonuts.
(01:59):
Not all work.
We're kind of famously knownfor doing a NyQuil donut.
Back in the day we put NyQuil ona donut.
We put that Bismalt on a donut,like real NyQuil and
Pepto-Bismol.
Oh, do you not know this story?
So back in the day the foundersactually made a NyQuil donut.
So they put NyQuil in thefrosting and then you would get
a shot glass full of NyQuilalong with the donut.
(02:21):
And they sold it for a day.
And the FDA came in and said,hey, just a heads up, that
little thing on the side of thebottle is a warning.
You cannot put medicine in food.
You can't do that.
And the founders beingmarketers they were they went to
the local paper and said, hey,the FDA, the man's trying to
stop us, right, we're just thislittle donut shop in Portland
(02:44):
and they got a ton of pressurefrom it.
Just a ton of press and so theyneed to tap the Bismol Donuts.
There's an oyster house rightnext to our first store.
They would run over and get afresh oyster every time someone
ordered an oyster donut.
We've done a salmon donut.
We've just done it.
Most recently we did a srirachadonut.
It was maple glazed withsriracha on the top and fresh
(03:05):
ground ramen.
We put sriracha on it.
Historically it was around$4.20.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Surprise, but we do a lot of donuts.
I don't get it.
Why?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah I know Some work and some don't, but what we did
was we ended up making our ownwallpaper with all of our donut
failures, everything that youwould imagine just didn't work.
So now in most of our storesthere's a wall somewhere with
this wallpaper with all thesecrazy donuts that you're like
that can't be a donut.
Yeah, we tried those, and sowe're sure we have a hack that
(03:36):
actually has all the donuts onthem.
All the different donuts we'vedone.
We put slingin' on a donut, weput salmon on a donut.
We've tried everything.
You name it.
We've tried it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
One, why do you do that?
And two, I want to make a pointabout the failure which I think
is amazing.
The question is why not right,I think, when you put
limitations on yourself?
Wait, why not put NyQuil on adonut?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, chris, yeah, well listen, I think there are
extremes, there are curves andwe've jumped a few curves but
we're on a palliative ourselves.
We don't apologize for muchhere at Voodoo.
We're in the donut business.
Let's just be honest.
We feed people and we feed themreally good donuts and why not
have some fun with it?
And I think a lot of peoplehave kind of tracked in behind
(04:17):
us.
Think of some of these icecream shops that have turkey
gravy ice cream and all thosethings that think about it.
10 years ago you would havebeen like what Ben and Jerry's
kind of started it, but allthese unique donut shops or ice
cream shops are now doing it.
I like to think we're in theforefront of that.
Nike will probably be a littlebit far, but pushing the
envelope a little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, you got to push the envelope to know when it's
going to open.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, and someone will tell us it's too far, as
the FDA did for us, but it'sjust part of having fun and part
of innovation and part of nottaking yourself too seriously
and really kind of enjoying thejourney.
It's fun for our team, it's funfor our customers, it gives
them something to talk about and, again, if you're not failing,
you're not trying, and it's sucha powerful tool to encourage
(05:04):
your team to fail and you knowto fail within boundaries and,
in the case of NyQuil, to failreally quickly and then stop it.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
But those are things that I think are so powerful
when you're able to teach themthat, hey, failure is okay.
What's not okay is not tryingnew things.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
One of the messages I tell my team every once in a
while, I'm not saying what wereyou thinking?
You're not thinking enough,you're just not thinking enough.
And so we challenge our storemanagers, we challenge everybody
in the building that if, everyonce in a while, chris isn't
saying what are you thinking,what were you thinking?
You're not thinking enough.
You're not.
We're people serving people,right, we're in the restaurant
(05:46):
business and everyone has theirown ideas.
And again, bring them to life,let them breathe.
We have some great donuts thatare marketing team and then our
HR team, and they come up withreally good ideas Like, well,
let's try it, let's taste it,let's see what happens.
So innovation doesn't just comefrom one person or from one
idea, right, I think in therestaurant business, you have to
be willing to listen toeverybody, including our
customers.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, there we go.
Powerful lesson, so let's talkabout those customers.
What do you think is the mostimportant aspect of guest
experience nowadays, chris?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I think that today, in today's world, right, the
guest experience is becomingmore and more important, right?
I mean, we talked about, wewent through COVID.
I think a lot of people thought, boy, you know, ghost kitchens
and walk-up windows anddrive-thrus and all those things
were going to be.
That was going to be our new,the way we're going to live our
lives in the restaurant business.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
By the way, thank you for not saying the new N.
It's like what is like?
Oh my gosh, if I hear that wordone more time.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and I think we all thought that was going to be
the world, and I think, withthe reality, as we all learned,
it's not the end of the world,right, that's not the way it's
going.
It's back about engagement, andengagement can also happen in a
drive-thru, it can happen in awalk-up window, it can happen in
a pickup.
All that can happen in thoseexperiences as well, and we
(06:59):
forgot, I think, at some pointin time, that we're still humans
and we like the humanconnection.
We like the human experience.
I was just reading aninteresting quote that came out
of Brett Ecava and he said 64%of his customers want human
engagement.
They require human engagement.
It just came out yesterday andI was like, well, that's really
interesting, right, where he'sdone a study where a big portion
(07:20):
of his customers still want theengagement.
They don't want to talk to akiosk, they want to engage.
And so for us, I think theimportant part of Voodoo,
especially for us, it's aboutthe experience.
Many times you go to Voodoo andwe're long lines.
There's no doubt about it.
We drive long lines and ifyou're going to stay in line for
30 minutes, you better getengagement when you walk in the
(07:40):
door.
And engagement comes fromeverything from, not just the
counter person, right the music,the lighting, everything it
feels that's going on insidethat store.
So for us, it's all about thatengagement right now.
Right, if you want to take anhour ordering a dozen donuts,
take an hour, take an hour, youdeserve it.
Take as long as you want.
We don't have timers, I don'ttrack ticket times.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, and maybe I should right.
Maybe I'm crazy, but remember Icame from a world of ticket
times Starbucks ticket times,right, mod pizza ticket times.
How fast could you move peoplethrough and not make it just a
transaction?
Well, that's a happy balance.
Right At Voodoo, I never wantedto be a transaction, I wanted
to be as fast or slow as youwant it to be, and so that's
where I think the new consumeris going and I think we're all
(08:26):
starting to recognize that.
You know more and more and more.
And it's not just about I wantto order my phone, I want it
really quick.
Some customers do, we have to,we have to gap to those
customers, but there's a wholepart of those customers who
still want someone to say helloand goodbye.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I can't agree with you more, chris, and longtime
listeners will be able to recitethis with me, but I really do
believe that there's three conswhen it comes to loyalty.
There's the convenience, whichis gonna get them in, there's
the consistency, which is gonnaget them back, and there's the
connection, which is reallygonna keep them for a lifetime.
And if you're in thatconsistency which is, by the way
(09:01):
, darn hard to be fullyconsistent If you're there,
you're still replaceable.
You're still just one mistakeaway from getting out of the
rotation for a year, but if youhave that connection, that
mistake is forgiven so muchfaster because they know that
(09:22):
that brand cares about them, andif they know that you care
about them, they're going tocare so much more about you.
If you don't care about them,they'll care a lot less about
them, and if they know that youcare about them, they're going
to care so much more about youIf you don't care about them,
they'll care a lot less aboutyou.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, I think the reality of it is we're all not
watching our dollars when wespend them, and so that
connection becomes even moreimportant now than it ever was.
And the best message I've heardis they said I went to, we had
a great time.
I said what'd you get?
And they're like I don't evenknow the donuts I got.
I don't remember, but Iremember I had a lot of fun and
to me that's a win.
Right, that's a win.
(09:52):
I mean, everyone can tell meabout the great bacon maple bar
we made, but tell me about theexperience you had.
I'm much more excited when youtell me I went, I had a great
time.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Think about this right.
How many places sell donuts?
Can someone go into a VoodooDonut and make a bootleg copy of
your maple bacon bar?
Yeah, sure they can.
Yes, there's maple bacon bars.
The question is, why do peoplewait when there's 20 donut shops
within a 15-minute drive that Ican get my donuts?
(10:24):
Come back to Voodoo Donutsbecause convenience is
superseded by consistency andconnection.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I agree.
I mean we're blessed and wehave many stores where there's
long lines to get in.
It'll be 30 minutes, 40 minutesto get in to get a donut.
When I first started visitingVoodoo I was with Maude.
I was like why am I standing inthis line for 30 minutes to get
a donut?
I'm in the restaurant business.
It better be good.
And then I went in and again, Ithink it's all encompassing.
It's not only the experience ofthe person on the counter, but
(10:55):
is the music right?
Is there something for me tolook at?
Do I feel it right?
There's an element that I stolefrom Howard Beard I worked for
at Starbucks, where the wallstalk.
Right.
What do the walls tell you whenyou walk in a place and you go
to someone's house and it couldbe an old friend you walk in.
You're like, oh, there'ssomething going on here.
I don't know what it is, butthere's something going on.
(11:15):
Or you walk in someone's homeor a car and there's something
good going on.
You're like, oh man, I feel it.
And so we talked a lot aboutthat.
Routines is what do the wallstell you when you walk in a
store?
And then what would consumerssay when they walk?
Do they feel like good thingsare happening?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
It's just a vibe I think you get and it's hard to
do, but when it happens it'sjust magic.
I love that and I think aboutit too A lot of times if there's
places where there's going tobe weights.
Right, because consumers by theway, just to be very clear,
consumers do complain aboutweight, but a lot less often
(11:51):
than you think.
If you look at the data of waittimes, where the biggest
frustration is is with pickup orwith delivery.
And when they say I waited toolong for my food, what their
meaning is?
I ordered my food.
You said it would be to my doorin 30 minutes and it didn't get
here until 50 minutes.
(12:11):
Or you said my order be readyat one o'clock and I showed up
at one o'clock and it wasn'tready until 1.15.
That 15 minutes of unexpectedis so much worse than 30 minutes
of waiting in line expecting it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
That's interesting and, as you said, that I'm kind
of nodding my head because muchworse than 30 minutes of waiting
in line expecting it.
That's interesting and, as yousaid, that I'm kind of nodding
my head because it's exactlywhat we find is that exact
message, which is you know, we'dall love for people to come in
our stores so we can controlfrom start to finish.
We all would love that.
The reality is, that's not theworld we're in.
We're just not in that world.
All of us, I think cumulativelyin the restaurant business,
(12:49):
have to accept that.
And how do we do a better jobof that?
And then, how do we recoverthat guest when things aren't
great, right?
I mean, I think you guys do agreat job of helping companies
like ours do that.
How do you recover thatcustomer when they're waiting 30
minutes for their donuts and ittakes an hour, and now they're
angry and they're not sure to beangry.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Exactly?
Who takes the blame?
The logo on the box of course.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Of course, because I'm a consumer and what happens
to me.
I feel that same thing and Iknow how it works.
So it's like going to a movieand watching, knowing how the
movie the magic of the movie'smade and being disappointed like
I know all the magic's made.
I know what to expect.
But you're absolutely right andyou know, I think you know
organizations like what you'redoing today with Ovation are
(13:36):
allowing us to be able tocapture those customers that
have a bad experience andcapture them quickly, right
Before they can go off and tellyou know, the neighbors at the
soccer tournament.
Hey.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I just ordered from here and it was not very good.
Well, because a human who feelslike they have not, that they
didn't get what they paid for,especially in the current
environment people are OK payingmore.
They're not OK paying more andnot getting what they paid for.
That's the danger.
And so if you can capture thatguest and make sure that they
feel heard, you can eithercontrol that narrative with them
(14:14):
and that conversation, or theywill go feel heard someplace
else.
And if they want to feel heardon Yelp, it's their prerogative.
If they want to feel heard at asoccer tournament, that's their
choice.
But if you could get in frontof that, you can have a much
more productive conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But if you could get in front of that, you could have
a much more productiveconversation.
Absolutely, it's the key.
It's the absolute key.
And listen, I'd love to be ableto capture every customer that
has a bad experience and mepersonally speak to them.
It's not the reality of theworld we're living in and again,
you guys, innovation help us dojust that Is how do we know
when everyone's had a badexperience and now we can get
ahead of it?
The how do we know wheneveryone's had a bad experience
(14:51):
and now we can get ahead of it?
The customer that I lay awakeat night and think about are the
ones that don't say anything,just have a bad experience and
walk away and don't come back.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And Chris, do you want to know why they don't say
anything?
You, as a customer, why don'tyou say things every time?
You have a bad experience.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
If you ask my wife she'll tell you, because I
always have a bad experience,because there's always something
I think you're better, right,and she's tired of hearing me
complain, but there's not anoutlet for it, right, and I
think it's just going to fall ondeaf ears.
I've already spent my timewaiting for the product.
I've already paid for it.
Now you want it to go above andbeyond.
It has to be convenient for meto do, otherwise I'm not doing
(15:23):
it.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And again, that's where every business decision
starts with that first con ofconvenience.
It's a transaction.
Me giving Voodoo Donutsfeedback is a transaction.
You are asking me for somethingand I don't know what I'm going
to get for it.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, no, 100%.
I know we're coming up on timehere, Chris.
(15:44):
We didn't even get to talkabout some tactics, but I know
we got to have you back on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
You's nice, that's very kind.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And you've got too much good experience to share it
all in one podcast, so let'shave you back on for part two,
chris, all right, you got it,but I do have a couple more
questions.
Who deserves an ovation in therestaurant industry?
Who is someone that we shouldbe following?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, listen, I think Shana and Andrew Smith are
doing an amazing job with theSavory Group.
I mean just an amazing job,right?
Every brand's important andevery brand feels uniquely
different, and that's hard whenyou have a stable of brands.
Yeah, right, because you startto feel the same experience in a
stable of brands and not tobeat down some of our big boys
and co-branding their big boysright, I don't want ice cream
and chicken at the same stop.
(16:31):
Or taco and chicken.
I'm sorry, but just dosomething well and do it really
good.
And I think the folks over atSavory and again Andrew and
Shauna being the lead of thathave done an amazing job with
helping bringing brands to life,helping them grow.
So they deserve an ovation frommy seat.
They're just doing an amazingjob.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Love it.
I grow, so they deserve anovation from my seat.
They're just doing an amazingjob.
Love it.
I was hanging out with Shaunalast week.
I mean they're such a coolgroup and I learn from them
every time I talk to them.
In fact, when I used to havelong hair, Andrew actually
taught me how to do my hair.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I don't have that problem.
But yeah, I don't need to talkto Andrew about that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But yeah, I know they're doing it.
If those that don't know thebrands and the saving group is
just doing a great job.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, amen, chris.
Where can people go to followand find Voodoo Donuts and you?
Yeah, so VoodooDonutcom onInstagram.
We have about 260,000 followers, believe it or not, for a
little donut shop out ofPortland.
Those are the two placesthey'll find us.
And for me, I don't have a bigsocial following.
I know everyone tells me I'mcrazy, but I, very simply, if I
tell everybody I'm just Chris atVoodooDonutcom and people can
email me anytime, anywhere, Ialways respond.
(17:40):
But yeah, I don't have a bigsocial following.
They tell me I have a facialradio.
So I'm just kind of you know.
I think it should fall in linewith social media as well oh,
and for those who aren'tfamiliar with the brand, voodoo
Donuts.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
They spell donuts, the original way, which is dog
like a real dough.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
You have to have dough to make a donut.
Yes, you don't need the nuts,you need the dough, yeah, so so,
just so everyone's aware of howto do that.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
But go check them out .
And, chris, for teaching us themagic of Voodoo Donuts.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you for joining us onGive an Ovation.
Thanks, zach.
Thanks for joining us today.
If you liked this episode,leave us a review on Apple
Podcasts or your favorite placeto listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
(18:30):
two-question, sms-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
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