October 30, 2025 • 17 mins
Eric Knott, CEO of Tiki Taco and former PDQ leader, joins Zack Oates to talk about scaling hospitality, refining menu strategy, and building genuine guest connections. With experience ranging from Outback to Tiki Taco, Eric shares how structure and community drive lasting success. He explains how to use guest feedback as a growth tool, why operators must be the “mayor” of their market, and what’s changed most about the modern guest.
Zack and Eric discuss:
- Lessons learned from Outback, PDQ, and Tiki Taco
- The power of guest feedback loops
- Knowing when to remove or refine a menu item
- Shifting guest expectations after COVID
- Building connection through kindness
Thanks, Eric!
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-knott-96504973/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/tikitaco/
https://www.tikitaco.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the
Restaurant Guest ExperiencePodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Ot, and eachweek I get to chat with an
industry expert to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
Learn what's actually happeningin your restaurants and how to
(00:22):
improve without just a longsurvey.
Learn more at ovationup.com.
And today we have someone who isnot just a partner of ours, but
someone who's we've worked withthem for a few years now across
two different brands.
He was COO of PDQ.
You could check out his previouspodcast on that now.
For almost a year and a half,he's been the CEO of Tiki Taco,
(00:45):
which is a super cool brand withsuper cool oh, look at that
swag.
And I just took a sip from myTiki Taco koozie.
Anyway, and he's just an awesomeguy, Eric Nod.
Welcome to the podcast again.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Thanks for having me.
I'm surprised you actually askedme to come back.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
I mean, it took a hundred episodes to convince
you, but we finally got youback.
Thanks for having me.
Excited to be here.
So, Eric, I want to talk aboutthis because you've had such an
interesting journey.
And like the last three brandsyou've worked with, out back.
And we're grateful to be able towork with them and have them as
a partner as well.
And PDQ, grateful to have them.
(01:25):
And now Tiki Taco, you've gonefrom a just giant brand to a
medium-sized brand to a smallbrand.
Talk to me about that journey.
What are some common threadsthat you've seen across those
brands and what are somedifferences?
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Yeah.
So I mean, the Outback days iskind of where I cut my teeth in
the restaurant business.
So I worked my way through thatsystem over 12 years.
And a lot of really good thingshappen at Outback.
Community, they're huge oncommunity, huge on guest focus,
huge on quality food.
And what I say is they were thebohemoth that had structure,
(02:02):
they had organization, they hadsystems.
And so I think those five thingsis what I pulled from Outback
going into PDQ.
And I was at PDQ at store one.
So we grew that from one to 70in about eight years or so.
And those same principles webrought with us.
Now, some big corporation, uhcorporate office didn't put
(02:23):
those together.
We had to do that in the earlydays with training outlines and
how we're going to take care ofthe guest experience, how we're
going to maintain the qualityfood, how we're going to be
really deep rooted in thecommunities that we serve.
And so it was a basic principleat PDQ.
And when I joined Tiki, we hadthree restaurants already open.
(02:45):
And they had a lot of the sameDNA already built, just didn't
have it formalized.
So we started with standardoperating procedures, putting
together recipe management deal,and then checklists here and
there.
And then we brought on a bunchof technology.
Ovation was my first call,actually, when I came over to
Tiki.
(03:05):
Because I think it's the mostimportant thing outside of your
team members to understand whatyour guest is saying, whether
that be good, bad, ugly, you maynot want to hear it sometimes.
You may not agree with itsometimes, but it's still from
their perspective is how theyinteract with your brand.
So a year and a half later, webrought on a lot of technology,
mostly so we can automate, getanswers quickly, and then react
(03:27):
even faster.
But we've built the same type ofstructure.
Quality food is very importantto us.
The guest experience is veryimportant to us.
We have systems and afoundation.
And each restaurant, I like tosay to the operators, they need
to be the mayor of thatrestaurant.
So draw a big circle around fivemiles around the store, and they
(03:48):
should own every business, everychurch, every little league,
school.
Everybody should know theirname.
Of course, they're going toassociate it with Tiki Taco, but
I want them to come to therestaurant more to see Zach or
to see Eric rather than I mean,of course, the food has to be
great too, but that personalizedlevel.
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
So I love that because that connection is so
critical.
And I and I tell restaurateursall the time when you and I
speak at a lot of conferencestogether.
But one of the things I alwaystalk about is it's not about
perfection.
It's about connection.
It's about making sure that theyknow that they've got someone
that they can turn to whensomething goes wrong.
(04:26):
And that they can have thattrust that it will be made
right.
And they can have that trustthat it's going to be a
consistent experience.
But if not, someone's going tocome in and save the day.
And if it's a consistentproblem, they're going to fix
the issue, right?
Because, like you said, youdon't always agree with them.
And sometimes you have thoseguests that you just need to
hear and you just need to helpthem feel heard.
(04:48):
And then you have those gueststhat you're like, you know what?
I've been hearing this a fewtimes.
And so we need to changesomething operationally.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I think the differencebetween what we're trying to
create is an emotionalconnection with the guests that
they feel good about tradingservice for the money out of
their pocket or their creditcard or however they pay.
But at the end of the day, Ithink you're spot on.
I think that's a good idea.
Oh, actually, I'm ovation.
Spot on uh is a great, alsogreat company.
I'm kidding.
(05:17):
I think that what you weretrying to say you had it right,
and people want to know thatthey're acknowledged.
They want to know that they'vebeen heard, and that could be a
good, bad, or ugly situation.
Most of the time you hope thatit's a good situation, but we
are humans and we try and set upstructure to follow this, this,
and this to make sure that theground beef gets tasted or the
(05:39):
pastor gets tasted or carnitasor whatever the case may be.
But sometimes the reality ofbeing imperfect is that you miss
something or you make a mistake,and then if you catch a piece of
the recipe incorrect from apiece of guest feedback they hit
you with, you can go correctthat issue on site.
And we rely on, with ovation, werely on our GMs to handle all of
(06:02):
the comment, two-way commentfrom the survey.
And we do that againintentionally because we want
that guest to know who Zach is,that there's a voice behind it.
And listen, I mean, the realityis like the AI feature is
awesome, but my GMs have funwith it.
They let the AI create it andthen they'll put stuff in there.
Like I just saw one yesterday.
(06:23):
It was so funny.
It was a good experience, and heused the AI to write it, but at
the end, he put somethingpersonalized and said, by the
way, this is not a bot.
Like making it fun, like havingfun with it.
But essentially it's very easyfor them, especially you know,
especially it's text messagebased through the app.
They enjoy it, and I enjoy beingable to see how the restaurants
(06:44):
are performing, what the guestsare saying, and try and use
that, put that into my arsenal,would you say, of making
decisions on whatever it mightbe, whether it's a food item,
could be a beverage, anexperience, whatever the case
may be.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
And are there any changes that you've made at at
Tiki Taco because of thefeedback that you received
through ovation?
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Yeah, there's plenty.
The big ones, though, we had inmy, I guess my first couple
months, we had a bunch ofcomments about our grilled fish
taco.
And they weren't nice.
They weren't nasty, but it wasjust like, oh, we we've had the
carnitas, we've had the chicken,we've had the chicken tingo,
we've had the pastor.
They're so awesome, but thisgrilled fish is just like it's
(07:24):
not great, you know.
So we actually ended up removingthe grilled fish from the menu
completely.
Oh, wow.
Because we didn't want to sell asubstandard product.
Now we're we're back on thegrind of RDing and getting that
right because I think havingthat for the guest, especially
those trying to be healthy, is agood avenue.
But you know, from us, if it'snot right, we don't we don't
want to serve it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
Well, and then by the way, as you're testing that
out, you should use the longform server that you can get
specific feedback about thatmenu item.
Because I think it's criticalthat as you're doing LTOs, as
you're doing like testing newmenu items, you're not always
going to get feedback about thatspecific thing.
Because if a guest has feedback,they're gonna tell you what it
is and it's pretty open-ended.
But then you could double-clickinto that to understand all
(08:06):
right, what do you think aboutthis?
Do you like it?
Do you not?
Should we keep it on the menu?
And so you can get a good flavorfor what the guests are thinking
about it too.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
Yeah, it's a great idea.
I mean, we we probably are abouta month away.
We've got a lot of roadshappening at the moment.
We we're spread it, but we dohave it on probably at the end
of Q4.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
But yeah, we'll definitely look into it.
Yeah, let's keep in touch onthat.
I'd love to see that journey.
Because I think that's that andthen that's one of the things
that I've always respected aboutyou, Eric, because you're not
someone who, all right, let'stake it off the menu.
That failed.
But it's like, no, let's let'stake it off the menu and circle
back to that and let's try thatin a different way.
And because you have thisoperational mindset where you're
like, we want this on the menu,let's figure out a way to make
(08:47):
it work, but you also know howto prioritize and to say, this
is something we have to punt onfor the next couple quarters
because we got bigger fish tofry, so to speak, or to grill.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
Yeah.
Well, I think it's important,especially as like we're an
emerging brand, right?
So we're a very small team andprioritizing what everyone's
workflow looks like is importantso we can do it the right way.
But the other thing too issomeone taught me, I don't
remember, I probably should, buta long time ago about product
mix and what what sells on yourmenu and what the guest be, you
know, how the guest behaviorworks.
(09:19):
And basically, if something'sselling less than three or four
percent on your menu, it eithersucks or people don't want it.
So either fix it and sell moreor just take it off.
So I try to state we have aquarterly Wheeze Bicky and it's
very easy, not as a name drop,but it's very easy to look at
(09:39):
product mix and what's selling,what's not.
So if something starts to sellmore or starts to sell less, so
we do that every quarter, and wego down the entire menu
basically, okay.
Does something need to be lookedat?
Do we need to work on something?
What's the guest transitioningfrom this to that?
And it's more, you know, I thinkfrom a pride aspect, we all
probably want to do things ourway or our flavors or or what we
(10:04):
think.
But at the end of the day, it'slike, well, I'm not serving,
well, I do eat in therestaurants pretty much every
day, but I'm not paying, right?
Every single day.
So let's listen to the peoplethat are paying to eat at your
restaurants and see what theywant and then try and meet them
in between somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
And as you're kind of looking at this guest
journey, what do you think haschanged over the last few years?
Is is there anything that hassignificantly changed, or do you
feel like the guest is still theguest and stays the guest?
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
No, this is something I've been thinking
about for probably at least ayear or two.
I think that before COVID, thevalue prop perception, however
you want to phrase it, was thateveryone felt good about
exchanging whatever dollaramount, eight, nine, ten,
twelve, thirteen dollars, for ahigh quality meal that was
somewhat made at that location.
(10:56):
COVID hits, everybody felt thepressure.
As a restaurant business, westart making what I would say
bad decisions, bringing inpre-made or frozen items or
whatever the case may be.
And we get out of COVID, we getlabor shortages, everybody keeps
understanding that they're gonnahave to pay more for this food,
even though it might not be thebest for them.
(11:17):
And now that's over.
We're five years past, and whatpeople now are saying is
everyone's had inflation andraised their menu price so much
that it's all basically thesame.
QSR, fast casual.
I'm gonna go to five guys andspend$30 for lunch for two of
us.
I'm gonna go to McDonald's, andyou're probably gonna still
spend$20 to$25.
(11:37):
So there's not much of adifference in price, but my
expectation now is that if I'mgonna go out, I want to feel
good about what I'm eating.
I want to know that majority ofthat is real food that's made in
the restaurants.
And they want to feel good aboutexchanging that price point with
somebody for something that'snot frozen or pre-packaged or
pre-made somewhere else.
(11:59):
And I think it's gonna continueto shift because the expectation
now is that I have to come outof my pocket probably with no
less than$10 to$12 for a meal,whether that be lunch or dinner.
Now, not talking casual diningand fine dining.
SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
That's just although I will say, like, I just not to
name drop on the other side, butlike I went to Chili's recently
and I spent less money there.
Well, in terms of likeMcDonald's five guys chilies,
they really were all within likea seven dollar spread of what it
costs to eat for two people toeat, even with a tip at Chili's.
(12:33):
And so, like, I was reallysurprised that I was able to do
that because I've again I'vealways thought of like that
casual dining as just okay,that's where we go for dinner
when we want to spend moremoney.
Not the case anymore, whichmeans there's a lot more
competition for restaurateurs.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
The water is getting very muddy on how to separate
from QSR, fast casual, evencasual dining.
And it's because everyone'sstarting to shift.
The casual dining consumers aregetting higher price point,
people want to shift down,people are now paying more on
the QSR side, so they wantbetter experiences.
(13:13):
So it's getting very muddybetween I would say the lower
end of casual dining and thehigher end of QSR.
It's very muddy.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Which means the name of the game is once you kind of
I love that concept, thatphilosophy of you need to be the
mayor of your five miles.
And once people know about you,the name of the game is
retention.
Because if you are only bringingback 30% of your customers, you
cannot win in this environment.
It's too hard.
The margins are too thin, it'stoo expensive to get someone to
(13:45):
switch and to try you over theother restaurant that's somewhat
similar to you down the street,but they haven't put in the work
to do the hand-to-hand combat towin you as an individual.
And maybe last things I knowwe're running out of time here,
but that concept of theindividual, we were just talking
about that before we startedabout how somebody walked into
(14:05):
the store, you took the time totalk to them, and that resulted
in some incredible cateringorders for you, and how it's
critical that you treat everyoneas if they had that kind of a
number above their head.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah, it's I mean, the most important part is you
never know, and I continue toget humbled on a daily basis.
I was talking to a guy aboutthree weeks ago, and between you
and I, it looked like he didn'thave a home to live in.
I won't tell anyone.
Yeah, I I start talking to aguy, and he owns like half of
the city's property here inKansas City.
(14:40):
So talk about like an humblingexperience.
And thank God I just see peopleas people.
I mean, so I was chatting thisguy up, and 30 minutes later he
comes inside the restaurant, haslunch, and we get to know each
other and come to find out.
Like I said, he owns half of thepart of the it's called the
crossroads here in Kansas City.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
And that's the thing is like you you never know, it
never hurts to be kind, andsometimes it'll be life-changing
and incredibly helpful.
I met someone, I was at a tradeshow walking around, and I'm
just like, okay, I'm gonna doone more loop at this after
party.
It was like 11:30, and I waslike, going to bed, and I'm
(15:19):
like, see these two guystalking, walk up to them, start
talking to them, and uh turnsout they have a pretty big
restaurant brand.
They signed up and they'veactually invested more than two
million dollars into ovation,right?
So it's just one of those thingswhere it was like really amazing
that one of our great customersturned into a great investor,
(15:39):
and those are the types ofthings like you never know.
And so be kind.
Yeah, that's the moral of thestory, right?
Is just be kind.
Anyway, Eric, I know we're outof time here.
Who's someone that deserves anovation in the restaurant
industry?
SPEAKER_01 (15:52):
Okay, this is gonna sound crazy because of my past
life, but I recently had anexperience that I have to tell
you about.
I promise I'll be fast, and it'sChick-fil-A.
Oh, uh-huh.
I went and met the franchisee ofthe Chick-fil-A near the new
restaurant that we're openingjust to hey, welcome to the
neighborhood.
Let's chat it up.
We had about a 30-minuteconversation over coffee.
(16:12):
Fast forward six months later, Iget a handwritten card in the
mail congratulating me on myone-year anniversary in Kansas
City.
He took the time from thatconversation over coffee to
remember when I started withTiki, and he hand wrote a
letter, or not letter, but likea note card about how successful
we're gonna be.
(16:33):
So nice to meet you.
Hope to see you soon.
Congratulations on one year.
Wow.
Dude, that is so cool.
I mean, just unbelievable.
And it just challenges me,really.
That's all that did was like,this guy's incredible, but it
challenges me to continue tothink like that.
Think like that about everyinteraction.
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
And you know what?
That was probably his pleasureto do it.
So good one.
Good one.
Well, Eric, before we get to thefinal part of the podcast, how
do people find and follow you inTiki Taco?
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
So tikitaco.com, tiki tacos our hashtag pretty
much everywhere except TikToks,tiki taco kc.
And then if you want mine, it'sEric Knott and LinkedIn.
You can find me on PrettyActive.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
All right, Eric.
Well, Eric, for bringing us asecond spoonful of wisdom from
your ocean of experience.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you so much for joining uson GivenOvation.
Thanks, Doc.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for joining us today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts or
your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a two
(17:37):
question estimates-based,actionable guest feedback
platform built for multi unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at ovationup.com.
Welcome to another edition of Give and Ovation, the
Restaurant Guest ExperiencePodcast.
I'm your host, Zach Ot, and eachweek I get to chat with an
industry expert to uncover theirstrategies and tactics to help
you create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is powered byOvation, the feedback and
operations platform built formulti-unit restaurants.
Learn what's actually happeningin your restaurants and how to
(00:22):
improve without just a longsurvey.
Learn more at ovationup.com.
And today we have someone who isnot just a partner of ours, but
someone who's we've worked withthem for a few years now across
two different brands.
He was COO of PDQ.
You could check out his previouspodcast on that now.
For almost a year and a half,he's been the CEO of Tiki Taco,
(00:45):
which is a super cool brand withsuper cool oh, look at that
swag.
And I just took a sip from myTiki Taco koozie.
Anyway, and he's just an awesomeguy, Eric Nod.
Welcome to the podcast again.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Thanks for having me.
I'm surprised you actually askedme to come back.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
I mean, it took a hundred episodes to convince
you, but we finally got youback.
Thanks for having me.
Excited to be here.
So, Eric, I want to talk aboutthis because you've had such an
interesting journey.
And like the last three brandsyou've worked with, out back.
And we're grateful to be able towork with them and have them as
a partner as well.
And PDQ, grateful to have them.
(01:25):
And now Tiki Taco, you've gonefrom a just giant brand to a
medium-sized brand to a smallbrand.
Talk to me about that journey.
What are some common threadsthat you've seen across those
brands and what are somedifferences?
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Yeah.
So I mean, the Outback days iskind of where I cut my teeth in
the restaurant business.
So I worked my way through thatsystem over 12 years.
And a lot of really good thingshappen at Outback.
Community, they're huge oncommunity, huge on guest focus,
huge on quality food.
And what I say is they were thebohemoth that had structure,
(02:02):
they had organization, they hadsystems.
And so I think those five thingsis what I pulled from Outback
going into PDQ.
And I was at PDQ at store one.
So we grew that from one to 70in about eight years or so.
And those same principles webrought with us.
Now, some big corporation, uhcorporate office didn't put
(02:23):
those together.
We had to do that in the earlydays with training outlines and
how we're going to take care ofthe guest experience, how we're
going to maintain the qualityfood, how we're going to be
really deep rooted in thecommunities that we serve.
And so it was a basic principleat PDQ.
And when I joined Tiki, we hadthree restaurants already open.
(02:45):
And they had a lot of the sameDNA already built, just didn't
have it formalized.
So we started with standardoperating procedures, putting
together recipe management deal,and then checklists here and
there.
And then we brought on a bunchof technology.
Ovation was my first call,actually, when I came over to
Tiki.
(03:05):
Because I think it's the mostimportant thing outside of your
team members to understand whatyour guest is saying, whether
that be good, bad, ugly, you maynot want to hear it sometimes.
You may not agree with itsometimes, but it's still from
their perspective is how theyinteract with your brand.
So a year and a half later, webrought on a lot of technology,
mostly so we can automate, getanswers quickly, and then react
(03:27):
even faster.
But we've built the same type ofstructure.
Quality food is very importantto us.
The guest experience is veryimportant to us.
We have systems and afoundation.
And each restaurant, I like tosay to the operators, they need
to be the mayor of thatrestaurant.
So draw a big circle around fivemiles around the store, and they
(03:48):
should own every business, everychurch, every little league,
school.
Everybody should know theirname.
Of course, they're going toassociate it with Tiki Taco, but
I want them to come to therestaurant more to see Zach or
to see Eric rather than I mean,of course, the food has to be
great too, but that personalizedlevel.
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
So I love that because that connection is so
critical.
And I and I tell restaurateursall the time when you and I
speak at a lot of conferencestogether.
But one of the things I alwaystalk about is it's not about
perfection.
It's about connection.
It's about making sure that theyknow that they've got someone
that they can turn to whensomething goes wrong.
(04:26):
And that they can have thattrust that it will be made
right.
And they can have that trustthat it's going to be a
consistent experience.
But if not, someone's going tocome in and save the day.
And if it's a consistentproblem, they're going to fix
the issue, right?
Because, like you said, youdon't always agree with them.
And sometimes you have thoseguests that you just need to
hear and you just need to helpthem feel heard.
(04:48):
And then you have those gueststhat you're like, you know what?
I've been hearing this a fewtimes.
And so we need to changesomething operationally.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I think the differencebetween what we're trying to
create is an emotionalconnection with the guests that
they feel good about tradingservice for the money out of
their pocket or their creditcard or however they pay.
But at the end of the day, Ithink you're spot on.
I think that's a good idea.
Oh, actually, I'm ovation.
Spot on uh is a great, alsogreat company.
I'm kidding.
(05:17):
I think that what you weretrying to say you had it right,
and people want to know thatthey're acknowledged.
They want to know that they'vebeen heard, and that could be a
good, bad, or ugly situation.
Most of the time you hope thatit's a good situation, but we
are humans and we try and set upstructure to follow this, this,
and this to make sure that theground beef gets tasted or the
(05:39):
pastor gets tasted or carnitasor whatever the case may be.
But sometimes the reality ofbeing imperfect is that you miss
something or you make a mistake,and then if you catch a piece of
the recipe incorrect from apiece of guest feedback they hit
you with, you can go correctthat issue on site.
And we rely on, with ovation, werely on our GMs to handle all of
(06:02):
the comment, two-way commentfrom the survey.
And we do that againintentionally because we want
that guest to know who Zach is,that there's a voice behind it.
And listen, I mean, the realityis like the AI feature is
awesome, but my GMs have funwith it.
They let the AI create it andthen they'll put stuff in there.
Like I just saw one yesterday.
(06:23):
It was so funny.
It was a good experience, and heused the AI to write it, but at
the end, he put somethingpersonalized and said, by the
way, this is not a bot.
Like making it fun, like havingfun with it.
But essentially it's very easyfor them, especially you know,
especially it's text messagebased through the app.
They enjoy it, and I enjoy beingable to see how the restaurants
(06:44):
are performing, what the guestsare saying, and try and use
that, put that into my arsenal,would you say, of making
decisions on whatever it mightbe, whether it's a food item,
could be a beverage, anexperience, whatever the case
may be.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
And are there any changes that you've made at at
Tiki Taco because of thefeedback that you received
through ovation?
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Yeah, there's plenty.
The big ones, though, we had inmy, I guess my first couple
months, we had a bunch ofcomments about our grilled fish
taco.
And they weren't nice.
They weren't nasty, but it wasjust like, oh, we we've had the
carnitas, we've had the chicken,we've had the chicken tingo,
we've had the pastor.
They're so awesome, but thisgrilled fish is just like it's
(07:24):
not great, you know.
So we actually ended up removingthe grilled fish from the menu
completely.
Oh, wow.
Because we didn't want to sell asubstandard product.
Now we're we're back on thegrind of RDing and getting that
right because I think havingthat for the guest, especially
those trying to be healthy, is agood avenue.
But you know, from us, if it'snot right, we don't we don't
want to serve it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
Well, and then by the way, as you're testing that
out, you should use the longform server that you can get
specific feedback about thatmenu item.
Because I think it's criticalthat as you're doing LTOs, as
you're doing like testing newmenu items, you're not always
going to get feedback about thatspecific thing.
Because if a guest has feedback,they're gonna tell you what it
is and it's pretty open-ended.
But then you could double-clickinto that to understand all
(08:06):
right, what do you think aboutthis?
Do you like it?
Do you not?
Should we keep it on the menu?
And so you can get a good flavorfor what the guests are thinking
about it too.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
Yeah, it's a great idea.
I mean, we we probably are abouta month away.
We've got a lot of roadshappening at the moment.
We we're spread it, but we dohave it on probably at the end
of Q4.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
But yeah, we'll definitely look into it.
Yeah, let's keep in touch onthat.
I'd love to see that journey.
Because I think that's that andthen that's one of the things
that I've always respected aboutyou, Eric, because you're not
someone who, all right, let'stake it off the menu.
That failed.
But it's like, no, let's let'stake it off the menu and circle
back to that and let's try thatin a different way.
And because you have thisoperational mindset where you're
like, we want this on the menu,let's figure out a way to make
(08:47):
it work, but you also know howto prioritize and to say, this
is something we have to punt onfor the next couple quarters
because we got bigger fish tofry, so to speak, or to grill.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
Yeah.
Well, I think it's important,especially as like we're an
emerging brand, right?
So we're a very small team andprioritizing what everyone's
workflow looks like is importantso we can do it the right way.
But the other thing too issomeone taught me, I don't
remember, I probably should, buta long time ago about product
mix and what what sells on yourmenu and what the guest be, you
know, how the guest behaviorworks.
(09:19):
And basically, if something'sselling less than three or four
percent on your menu, it eithersucks or people don't want it.
So either fix it and sell moreor just take it off.
So I try to state we have aquarterly Wheeze Bicky and it's
very easy, not as a name drop,but it's very easy to look at
(09:39):
product mix and what's selling,what's not.
So if something starts to sellmore or starts to sell less, so
we do that every quarter, and wego down the entire menu
basically, okay.
Does something need to be lookedat?
Do we need to work on something?
What's the guest transitioningfrom this to that?
And it's more, you know, I thinkfrom a pride aspect, we all
probably want to do things ourway or our flavors or or what we
(10:04):
think.
But at the end of the day, it'slike, well, I'm not serving,
well, I do eat in therestaurants pretty much every
day, but I'm not paying, right?
Every single day.
So let's listen to the peoplethat are paying to eat at your
restaurants and see what theywant and then try and meet them
in between somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
And as you're kind of looking at this guest
journey, what do you think haschanged over the last few years?
Is is there anything that hassignificantly changed, or do you
feel like the guest is still theguest and stays the guest?
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
No, this is something I've been thinking
about for probably at least ayear or two.
I think that before COVID, thevalue prop perception, however
you want to phrase it, was thateveryone felt good about
exchanging whatever dollaramount, eight, nine, ten,
twelve, thirteen dollars, for ahigh quality meal that was
somewhat made at that location.
(10:56):
COVID hits, everybody felt thepressure.
As a restaurant business, westart making what I would say
bad decisions, bringing inpre-made or frozen items or
whatever the case may be.
And we get out of COVID, we getlabor shortages, everybody keeps
understanding that they're gonnahave to pay more for this food,
even though it might not be thebest for them.
(11:17):
And now that's over.
We're five years past, and whatpeople now are saying is
everyone's had inflation andraised their menu price so much
that it's all basically thesame.
QSR, fast casual.
I'm gonna go to five guys andspend$30 for lunch for two of
us.
I'm gonna go to McDonald's, andyou're probably gonna still
spend$20 to$25.
(11:37):
So there's not much of adifference in price, but my
expectation now is that if I'mgonna go out, I want to feel
good about what I'm eating.
I want to know that majority ofthat is real food that's made in
the restaurants.
And they want to feel good aboutexchanging that price point with
somebody for something that'snot frozen or pre-packaged or
pre-made somewhere else.
(11:59):
And I think it's gonna continueto shift because the expectation
now is that I have to come outof my pocket probably with no
less than$10 to$12 for a meal,whether that be lunch or dinner.
Now, not talking casual diningand fine dining.
SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
That's just although I will say, like, I just not to
name drop on the other side, butlike I went to Chili's recently
and I spent less money there.
Well, in terms of likeMcDonald's five guys chilies,
they really were all within likea seven dollar spread of what it
costs to eat for two people toeat, even with a tip at Chili's.
(12:33):
And so, like, I was reallysurprised that I was able to do
that because I've again I'vealways thought of like that
casual dining as just okay,that's where we go for dinner
when we want to spend moremoney.
Not the case anymore, whichmeans there's a lot more
competition for restaurateurs.
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
The water is getting very muddy on how to separate
from QSR, fast casual, evencasual dining.
And it's because everyone'sstarting to shift.
The casual dining consumers aregetting higher price point,
people want to shift down,people are now paying more on
the QSR side, so they wantbetter experiences.
(13:13):
So it's getting very muddybetween I would say the lower
end of casual dining and thehigher end of QSR.
It's very muddy.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
Which means the name of the game is once you kind of
I love that concept, thatphilosophy of you need to be the
mayor of your five miles.
And once people know about you,the name of the game is
retention.
Because if you are only bringingback 30% of your customers, you
cannot win in this environment.
It's too hard.
The margins are too thin, it'stoo expensive to get someone to
(13:45):
switch and to try you over theother restaurant that's somewhat
similar to you down the street,but they haven't put in the work
to do the hand-to-hand combat towin you as an individual.
And maybe last things I knowwe're running out of time here,
but that concept of theindividual, we were just talking
about that before we startedabout how somebody walked into
(14:05):
the store, you took the time totalk to them, and that resulted
in some incredible cateringorders for you, and how it's
critical that you treat everyoneas if they had that kind of a
number above their head.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah, it's I mean, the most important part is you
never know, and I continue toget humbled on a daily basis.
I was talking to a guy aboutthree weeks ago, and between you
and I, it looked like he didn'thave a home to live in.
I won't tell anyone.
Yeah, I I start talking to aguy, and he owns like half of
the city's property here inKansas City.
(14:40):
So talk about like an humblingexperience.
And thank God I just see peopleas people.
I mean, so I was chatting thisguy up, and 30 minutes later he
comes inside the restaurant, haslunch, and we get to know each
other and come to find out.
Like I said, he owns half of thepart of the it's called the
crossroads here in Kansas City.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
And that's the thing is like you you never know, it
never hurts to be kind, andsometimes it'll be life-changing
and incredibly helpful.
I met someone, I was at a tradeshow walking around, and I'm
just like, okay, I'm gonna doone more loop at this after
party.
It was like 11:30, and I waslike, going to bed, and I'm
(15:19):
like, see these two guystalking, walk up to them, start
talking to them, and uh turnsout they have a pretty big
restaurant brand.
They signed up and they'veactually invested more than two
million dollars into ovation,right?
So it's just one of those thingswhere it was like really amazing
that one of our great customersturned into a great investor,
(15:39):
and those are the types ofthings like you never know.
And so be kind.
Yeah, that's the moral of thestory, right?
Is just be kind.
Anyway, Eric, I know we're outof time here.
Who's someone that deserves anovation in the restaurant
industry?
SPEAKER_01 (15:52):
Okay, this is gonna sound crazy because of my past
life, but I recently had anexperience that I have to tell
you about.
I promise I'll be fast, and it'sChick-fil-A.
Oh, uh-huh.
I went and met the franchisee ofthe Chick-fil-A near the new
restaurant that we're openingjust to hey, welcome to the
neighborhood.
Let's chat it up.
We had about a 30-minuteconversation over coffee.
(16:12):
Fast forward six months later, Iget a handwritten card in the
mail congratulating me on myone-year anniversary in Kansas
City.
He took the time from thatconversation over coffee to
remember when I started withTiki, and he hand wrote a
letter, or not letter, but likea note card about how successful
we're gonna be.
(16:33):
So nice to meet you.
Hope to see you soon.
Congratulations on one year.
Wow.
Dude, that is so cool.
I mean, just unbelievable.
And it just challenges me,really.
That's all that did was like,this guy's incredible, but it
challenges me to continue tothink like that.
Think like that about everyinteraction.
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
And you know what?
That was probably his pleasureto do it.
So good one.
Good one.
Well, Eric, before we get to thefinal part of the podcast, how
do people find and follow you inTiki Taco?
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
So tikitaco.com, tiki tacos our hashtag pretty
much everywhere except TikToks,tiki taco kc.
And then if you want mine, it'sEric Knott and LinkedIn.
You can find me on PrettyActive.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
All right, Eric.
Well, Eric, for bringing us asecond spoonful of wisdom from
your ocean of experience.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Thank you so much for joining uson GivenOvation.
Thanks, Doc.
Appreciate it.
Thanks for joining us today.
If you like this episode, leaveus a review on Apple Podcasts or
your favorite place to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a two
(17:37):
question estimates-based,actionable guest feedback
platform built for multi unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at ovationup.com.
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