April 28, 2025 • 20 mins
Kendall Ware, keynote speaker and franchise growth coach, joins Zack to share strategies for building memorable guest experiences rooted in authenticity, consistency, and connection. With a deep background in franchise leadership and hospitality, Kendall offers insights on what really drives guest loyalty—and how small moments make a big difference.
Zack and Kendall discuss:
- Sharing authentic leadership lessons through LinkedIn
- Strengthening franchisee and franchisor relationships
- Turning convenience into long-term guest connection
- Using data to uncover and fix operational gaps
- Adapting brand standards to local market needs
Tune in to hear how Kendall’s people-first approach is shaping the future of hospitality.
Thanks, Kendall!
Learn more:
https://ovationup.com/
https://kendallware.com/
Kendall Ware - Linkedin
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests with all the
(00:20):
questions.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today we have a good friend, a trade show staple, kendall
Ware.
Keynote speaker, franchisegrowth coach.
He was the COO of Walk-On, thepresident of Cinnabon, the CEO
of Orange Leaf Just an unrealrap sheet of what you've done in
the hospitality industry.
Welcome to Give an Ovation,kendall.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you, Zach, Appreciate it man.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Glad we can make this happen.
I know I feel like this is liketwo, three years in the making
of trying to arrange everything,so I'm glad that you got here
Now.
One of the things that I seeyour LinkedIn content is just so
inspirational.
You care so much about people.
You're very authentic.
Talk to me about when youstarted posting more on LinkedIn
and you started doing that.
Are you glad you did it?
Do you wish that you would havelike posted less, now that
(01:09):
you're kind of a thought leaderin the industry now At first
right, it was really the idea ofall the things that I talk
about or do daily in a brand.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Obviously, it impacts that brand and the people
involved, but it's a muchsmaller scale in comparison to
what it could be.
So I can't remember where Iheard it, but I heard somebody
say several years ago that ifyou want to start creating
content, just start posting andtalking about what you're doing
on a day-to-day basis.
Look at your calendar, recapthe meeting in your head or some
key takeaways, and just startsharing that instead of trying
(01:40):
to struggle and think about whatshould I go talk about?
And so it really became a hey,here's what happened today.
I'm going to go ahead and sharethis and a couple of things got
some good traction.
A lot of good feedback wascoming back and forth, but
there's also days where it'svery low engagement.
You wonder if anybody sawanything right.
But it's more about what youknow.
The value can be for those thatdo see it so it could be one
(02:01):
person.
It for those that do see it soit could be one person.
It could be 200 people.
Whatever that may be, at leastI know it's adding value
somewhere.
And that's really what itbecame is how do I just share
things that I've gone throughpersonally currently
experiencing right in the moment, or that I know people may just
need to hear right now, giventhe current climate?
So that was really the drivebehind.
It was how do I spread what itis I'm passionate about and the
(02:22):
value that I'm adding to thepeople I work with to a broader
audience?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For the listeners.
If you don't follow Kendall, gofollow him.
I know we normally do that atthe end of the podcast, but he's
got great content, like I said,and it's a kind of content
where it's not just like oh,that's like really insightful,
but it's also content of like oh, I should do that and be a
better person.
So I appreciate that you putboth of those flavors in there.
Now, going into the restaurantworld, as you have been at the
(02:48):
helm of some of these justiconic brands and, by the way, I
don't understand how you're not400 pounds after working at
Cinnabon.
I know they call it the Focus15.
Wait, I guess now it'd becalled the whatever.
The Go-To 15.
Yeah, yeah right, not quite ascatchy as the focus 15, but
(03:08):
right, you get a fresh cinnabonand you get a middle that's like
of someone that's just beenfrosted.
It is hard to beat that, asyou've been at the helm of all
these iconic brands.
What are some of the commonmistakes that you see that if
you walk into any restaurant,you're like all right, here's
some things that you should takea look at in your brand.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
A lot of them have been franchise brands.
A lot of times it's about thefranchise relationship to some
degree, or a misconception,right, or a disconnect in terms
of what you are promising yourbrand as a franchisor versus
what you're actually deliveringon.
And a lot of this just comesfrom the churn that happens in
the industry and you have thingslike an FDD or a franchise
(03:48):
agreement where there's anindividual franchisee who has
read all this.
Hopefully and most likely right.
They've read all this, theysigned up for it, they paid the
check and they have anexpectation driven off of those
documents right.
But if you have leadership thatcomes and goes and they're not
consuming those same documentsand living by them, it creates
(04:08):
this natural disconnect.
So if I were to summarize thelast 10 franchise brands that
I've worked at or led, that'susually where I had to start was
strengthening the relationship,clarifying what we're supposed
to be doing as a franchisor,what we should not be doing as a
franchisor, and really justeducating around the legalities,
but also that expectation infranchising.
That's usually the go-to.
(04:29):
From there I feel like everybrand so far usually has some
sort of operational disconnectwhen it comes to just having
consistent KPIs cadences andwhen they visit and what they're
supposed to do during theirvisits.
It's usually these common areasthat I see to, where you can
literally apply a playbook.
And going back to my commentearlier, this playbook I've had
(04:50):
to apply and refine at everysingle brand.
And now it's more about hey,how do I just take that playbook
and share it with a largerscaled audience?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, and that franchisee-franchisor
relationship is something thatis constant strain there.
It's tough to manage that, andyou really need a lot of
politicking, right, and it'spoliticking, but it's also just
delivery.
It's just like straight here'swhat I'm going to do, and then
doing it and earning that trust,and I think that goes both ways
.
But, yeah, that definitely istough.
(05:20):
So, as you're looking about allthis, though, I mean one thing
that the franchisees and thefranchisors could be on the same
side.
Of everything that we're doingthe technology, the food, all of
the ingredients, the locationsit's all about the guest
experience, and so what do youthink is the most important
aspect of guest experiencenowadays?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's how are you going to make it a memorable
experience for the guest, so theperson who's actually coming
into the four walls?
What are you going to do tomake it memorable in a positive
way?
You don't want it to bememorable in a negative way,
which does happen, as we allknow.
But how do you make it positiveand to your point?
That is usually the commonground that you share between
franchise or franchisee.
(05:59):
So it's so easy to tie back theconversation or the new launch
that you're working on orwhatever the change is happening
in the brand.
If you can tie it back to theguest experience, usually you
can gain the buy-in.
If you can't tie it back to theguest experience, then you got
to ask yourself should we evenbe working on this or not?
Because if it's not going toimpact the guest, then what's
really the purpose behind it?
(06:19):
Don't get me wrong.
There's some things you got todo every once in a while that
may not ever reach the guest,but for the most part, that
should be the common ground thatyou're aligned on.
So, between the two parties,it's really how do you have a
brand that stands for somethingbigger, that is capable of
making something memorable and Ialways think about personally.
There's a diner down the street.
(06:39):
Nothing special about it, it'sjust close.
It's very convenient and whenmy son was six months old, my
daughter was one.
It was a crazy Saturday morning.
Need to get them out of thehouse.
I just walked to the nearestplace.
Okay, it's convenient.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
By the way, I know nothing about that, kendall,
that is complete foreignterritory to me.
Yeah, okay, you have it worsethan I do.
I'm totally empathizing.
I am right there with you.
I'm feeling the pain, I'mfeeling the thinking about the
whole day with nothing planned,and it's like we just got to get
out of the house, just got togo.
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Put them in the stroller, make my way out.
I go to this diner.
Okay, we sit down.
Binkies are flying, people arecrying, it's all kinds of drama.
Right Wagers comes over to askme my order.
I haven't really looked at themenu yet.
I saw something about biscuitsand gravy.
I saw something about havinggreen chilies on it.
I don't really know what it was.
I just said, yeah, give me that.
And I pointed at something.
Okay, long story short, theitem that I ended up getting was
(07:35):
not something I had asked for,but I've now had it for almost
five years because I go to thatdiner every single Saturday with
my two kids.
And what happened is I orderedsomething very random and they
thought I ordered biscuits andgravy with green chilies on top
of it.
Okay, it's actually verydelicious, but it wasn't my
intent.
Every time I came back eachSaturday morning, they just kept
saying you want the same thingas last time?
(07:56):
I just said yes.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Then it turned into never asking me anything.
I would just sit down and theywould bring me the meal my kids
and I would all share, and overtime I didn't really care what
that was.
It was just a matter of how theexperience was memorable.
It was contained, my kids werehappy, they were fast about it.
We didn't waste any time.
They'd bring me my latte andit's a go cup because they know
I didn't want to spill it.
I wanted to walk home.
(08:19):
They knew all these details.
Okay, so the convenience factorof it being close to my house
got me in the door.
The memorable experiences iswhat kept us coming back.
Until one day we showed up,staff had changed and nobody
knew who we were.
I was handed menus, I was askeda bunch of questions, my kids
were getting antsy, they wereupset, they were crying.
I did not want to go back.
(08:39):
After that, gave him a few moretries and luckily the owner
noticed what was happening andmade a change.
And the owner noticed what washappening and made a change.
And the owner started actuallydocumenting certain things that
he could share about some of hisregulars.
So that way, if the team didchange, they knew how to handle
and what those expectations were.
And ever since then, right forfive years now, it has been the
most consistent and fun andmemorable experience that I have
with my kids and in myhousehold there is no Saturday.
(09:03):
You got Monday, tuesday,wednesday, thursday, friday
breakfast day, and then Sundaythat's what my kids call it they
go it's breakfast day, dad,let's go to breakfast spot, and
that's just what it's becomebecause of that experience.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
See and that is amazing because we talk about
this all the time on the podcastConvenience will get someone in
the door, Consistency willbring them back, but connection
will keep them for a lifetime,right.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And bring them back, but connection will keep them
for a lifetime Right and thatconnection is all about trust.
It's all about where everybodyknows you.
I have never sung into thismicrophone.
That felt very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Sounding good, sounding good.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But I think you're exactly right, and it's like
noticing those small things.
For example, I took my son toDisneyland a couple of weeks ago
and he got a little motionsickness from some of the rides.
So we went in and I asked oneof the staff members in a gift
shop.
I said, hey, do you have anyDramamine for kids?
And they were like, oh yeah,it's behind the counter though.
So they got it, they charged mefor it, and then we walk out of
(10:00):
the store and we kind of walkdown the sidewalk and we sit on
the bench right.
So we're probably like a good,I don't know 30, 40 yards away
from the store.
And as we're sitting there,guess what happens?
A woman that I asked if they hadgermamine came out and she had
apple juice and chocolate milkand she said, hey, can I give
(10:24):
one of these to him to drinkwith a pill, Because she knew it
wasn't a chewable pill.
And so I was like, oh yeah,let's get the apple juice.
And then she goes would youalso like a bag in case he does
throw up?
And I said, oh sure, so shegoes back, she comes back and
she doesn't just hand me a bag.
She had double bagged it,opened it up, gave it to me and
then told my son hey, here's abag in case you need to throw up
(10:48):
, but if you don't make the bag,that's okay, we have people
that'll help clean it up, right?
It happens all the time and Ijust thought about that, about
that little moment of she couldhave just said yeah, here's the
Dramamine.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But instead here you go.
Goodbye here you go goodbye.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
But that's not the Disney way, that's not
hospitality, right?
Right, it's all about how youmake people feel and that
thought of oh, they needsomething to drink it with, and
maybe they have something, maybethey don't, but let me take
these drinks from the cooler,walk out, look for them, bring
it to them.
Stuff like that, I mean, thatis the magic of Disney, that is
(11:29):
the magic of hospitality, it'sjust helping people know that
you care.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Right, right, right, it's special.
I always say that to restaurantowners you have to set the
expectation.
Whatever that expectation is,maybe it can't be like Disney,
maybe it can't be like the localdiner that I referred to, but
whatever your expectation isthat you want to deliver on, you
have to be consistent atwhatever that is.
That's up to you, that's yourchoice.
People may not perceive it thesame across the board but, like
(11:51):
my kids have an expectation.
Now, when they go in therestaurant, when we go somewhere
else, right, they're like hey,how come they're asking us all
these questions?
I'll come in and bring me myspecial meal, but it's just
different, right, because notall brands are the same.
So, to your point, right,disney has their expectation,
they live up to it.
It's the details of opening upthe bag, handing something they
didn't have to hand over, butall that adds up and you now
(12:14):
have that expectation right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So it's just about the consistency factor.
Absolutely, and I think that'sthe magic of those three cons
right, convenience, consistency,connection, because you really
do need to ladder up to them.
I mean, had you gone back thesecond time and the biscuits and
gravy were bad, maybe becausethey're so conveniently close,
you may have come back one moretime, but if they were again
inconsistent, it doesn't matterhow convenient they are.
(12:37):
You're not going to waste yourtime on a Saturday with your
family just to have a meal thatyou're not sure is it going to
be good or not.
So, that being said, with theserestaurants, with these brands
that you've been at and with theconsulting that you do, now,
what are some tactics thatyou've seen to improve the guest
experience?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Actually leveraging the data you have access to.
I know data is a bigconversation.
There's obviously things likeCDPs and a lot more granular
data you can get your hands onnow.
However, there's also justbasic insights that sometimes
get overlooked right or aren'tbeing checked when there's a
change or a problem happening.
It makes me think aboutsomething that happened most
recently at Walk-Ons right.
(13:14):
So we were going through a menurevitalization and you know,
looking at things and percentageof sales and all the basics you
would do, queso came up as oneof those items that was a low
percentage of sales.
But also Queso kind of worksfor the sports bar makes sense.
So why would you want to getrid of it?
But sometimes you know this ishow decisions are made.
Well, someone said somethingabout it's just a hard product.
It's never really coming outright.
(13:35):
Nobody really likes it Allright.
Well, let's go into the data.
Let's understand why becauseit's queso when I've wouldn't
like queso.
We dive into the data, right,and we go and find out what the
real root cause is.
And you have to go throughfirst all the guests data you
have access to right.
Sales is one factor, but whatare the guests and consumers
(13:55):
saying about the product.
What's the highlights there?
And sure enough, you startdigging and yes, there's a lot
of comments about queso andthree other items.
So there's really four hotbuttons that were being talked
about a lot in relation to poorquality or not meeting
expectations to some degree.
So you keep digging and you dig, and you dig and, sure enough,
there was no problem at all, butit was something so simple that
(14:17):
literally changed overnight,not to be dramatic.
But what happens?
You realize that consumers aresaying all this, and so you go
back and you start looking atyour systems, your operational
procedures.
What's missing?
Why would something behappening like this?
Well, sure enough, out of thehundreds of items that that
brand has to prep every singleday, there's four items that are
not on that list.
And those four items happen tobe the four items that have to
(14:40):
be held in a heating containerand have a shelf life of only
four hours.
Well, because they were not onthe prep list, they were out of
sight, out of mind, and eitherpeople were putting way too much
in at a time and it's obviouslyjust drying out, going bad
you're wasting a whole bunch orthey weren't having enough and
the product wasn't readilyavailable Either way.
We also noticed that of thatitem, it was the highest gap we
(15:04):
had in food waste If you lookedat theoretical versus actual.
So all these factors pointedback and it was just that simple
prep sheet that needed fouritems added to it so that way
people knew how much to put outat a time and to actually manage
it, to make sure you're notwasting it and you're still
delivering high quality.
We would have never figuredthat out without the data.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And I love that.
One of our big things is likeactionable guest feedback,
because if you're not takingaction on the guest feedback,
there's no point in youcollecting it.
It's like take action now.
And I think that's one of thepowerful things about taking
action on your data is that it'snot only about finding that
one-to-one hospitality how doyou help that guest feel like
(15:45):
they're known and cared aboutbut also it's about using the
data to find the consistenttrends and differentiating
between the one-offs and thethings that need to be fixed
fundamentally with theoperational piece, as opposed to
just like someone happened tonot like the queso, that's okay,
right.
Not everyone's to not like thequeso that's okay, right.
Not everyone's going to likethe queso, but if you're having
(16:08):
operational issues, tweakingthat.
I think I love that concept.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And I think another tactic, and maybe more of a
strategy I think brands shouldbe more open to, is the idea of
regionalizing whatever is goingon in the brand.
It's meaning that sometimes-.
So you maybe need to regionalize, meaning you're going to take
something away in a certainregion, maybe it's adding
something different.
But you hear a lot of brandswho are focused on this idea of
(16:31):
control.
When it comes to operationalconsistency which by all means
we all know you have to beconsistent.
It's almost like table stakes.
But there's a difference frombeing consistent to adapting to
your local regions.
Right, just because you have todo something slightly different
in a region doesn't mean you'reinconsistent as a brand.
Your experience can still bethe same, but sometimes you have
(16:52):
to offer something different ordo something different for that
clientele or that area thatyou're having presence in,
presence in, and so I think justhaving that open-mindedness to
understand that, yeah, you knowwhat?
Maybe in this area we do needto entertain the idea of showing
fights on television after 9 pmbecause we're a sports bar,
versus over here in a certainregion we should not because
(17:13):
it's very kid-friendly.
A lot of volume is kids doesn'tmake sense for that area.
But this idea that one sizefits all, I just don't think
works as well anymore, and sothere's got to be some
adaptation that occurs to makesure that you can meet your
consumers where they're at andbe that place that they want to
call home.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I love that.
I think that that's so powerfulbecause, yeah, you want to make
it feel like the neighborhood,the neighborhood area, and I
think that, regardless of whatit is, I think there's some
brave things like Chick-fil-A.
Putting pimento cheese on allof this stuff.
It's like, oh my gosh, I mean,do that many people actually
like pimento cheese?
(17:51):
Hey, you know what.
Good for them for doing it.
I love the boldness.
Okay Now, last questions here.
Kendall, who deserves anovation?
Who is someone that we shouldbe following in the restaurant
industry?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I would take a look at Todd Broderick and the whole
team at Nucky's Hoagies.
So Nucky's Hoagies is basicallyan emerging franchise concept
out of Atlanta.
I've been to Philly and I'vehad the debate between Pat and
Gino's and I don't want to getyour podcast canceled by talking
about this, but I'm telling youthey have an incredible
cheesesteak right.
It's one of the best I've everhad.
(18:26):
But, long story short, they hadthis proprietary recipe that
was known for a pizza conceptbased out of Boston.
It was around for 20 plus years.
They had 10, 11 units.
It was iconic.
Well, they won a ton of awardsfor this pizza dough.
Well, they were able to takethis pizza dough and convert it
into a hoagie recipe, and soit's something truly special.
It's very, very, I would say,intriguing and interesting, and
it just has this higher qualitytaste compared to most
(18:47):
sandwiches out there when itcomes to the bread itself.
But long story short, they arescaling.
They're in growth mode.
They're doing things the rightway slow and steady, but they
keep people at the forefront ofeverything they do.
They're all about how theydrive a purpose and try to
create some sort of positiveimpact in their communities.
So awesome brand.
I would definitely check themout and give them a follow and
see what they're up to.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I mean their website and the menu just look awesome.
Oh, yeah, love it.
Yeah, it'll get you.
And, kendall, where can peoplego to find and follow you?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Sure, so my website's the best place to go
Kendallwarecom, nice and simple.
That's where I have a lot of mycontent and offerings and
services and all that.
Then, of course, linkedin, asyou mentioned, but also
Instagram.
I try to stay pretty strong andfrequent on Instagram as well,
but, yeah, any one of thoseplatforms would be great.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Awesome.
Well, kendall, for putting outideas that inspire institutions
and individuals to be better.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation.
Awesome man.
Thank you for having meAppreciate it.
Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
If you liked this episode, leave us a review on
Apple Podcasts or your favoriteplace to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question SMS-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation, the
restaurant guest experiencepodcast, where I talk to
industry experts to get theirstrategies and tactics you can
use to create a five-star guestexperience.
This podcast is sponsored byOvation, an operations and guest
recovery platform formulti-unit restaurants that
gives all the answers withoutannoying guests with all the
(00:20):
questions.
Learn more at OvationUpcom.
And today we have a good friend, a trade show staple, kendall
Ware.
Keynote speaker, franchisegrowth coach.
He was the COO of Walk-On, thepresident of Cinnabon, the CEO
of Orange Leaf Just an unrealrap sheet of what you've done in
the hospitality industry.
Welcome to Give an Ovation,kendall.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you, Zach, Appreciate it man.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Glad we can make this happen.
I know I feel like this is liketwo, three years in the making
of trying to arrange everything,so I'm glad that you got here
Now.
One of the things that I seeyour LinkedIn content is just so
inspirational.
You care so much about people.
You're very authentic.
Talk to me about when youstarted posting more on LinkedIn
and you started doing that.
Are you glad you did it?
Do you wish that you would havelike posted less, now that
(01:09):
you're kind of a thought leaderin the industry now At first
right, it was really the idea ofall the things that I talk
about or do daily in a brand.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Obviously, it impacts that brand and the people
involved, but it's a muchsmaller scale in comparison to
what it could be.
So I can't remember where Iheard it, but I heard somebody
say several years ago that ifyou want to start creating
content, just start posting andtalking about what you're doing
on a day-to-day basis.
Look at your calendar, recapthe meeting in your head or some
key takeaways, and just startsharing that instead of trying
(01:40):
to struggle and think about whatshould I go talk about?
And so it really became a hey,here's what happened today.
I'm going to go ahead and sharethis and a couple of things got
some good traction.
A lot of good feedback wascoming back and forth, but
there's also days where it'svery low engagement.
You wonder if anybody sawanything right.
But it's more about what youknow.
The value can be for those thatdo see it so it could be one
(02:01):
person.
It for those that do see it soit could be one person.
It could be 200 people.
Whatever that may be, at leastI know it's adding value
somewhere.
And that's really what itbecame is how do I just share
things that I've gone throughpersonally currently
experiencing right in the moment, or that I know people may just
need to hear right now, giventhe current climate?
So that was really the drivebehind.
It was how do I spread what itis I'm passionate about and the
(02:22):
value that I'm adding to thepeople I work with to a broader
audience?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
For the listeners.
If you don't follow Kendall, gofollow him.
I know we normally do that atthe end of the podcast, but he's
got great content, like I said,and it's a kind of content
where it's not just like oh,that's like really insightful,
but it's also content of like oh, I should do that and be a
better person.
So I appreciate that you putboth of those flavors in there.
Now, going into the restaurantworld, as you have been at the
(02:48):
helm of some of these justiconic brands and, by the way, I
don't understand how you're not400 pounds after working at
Cinnabon.
I know they call it the Focus15.
Wait, I guess now it'd becalled the whatever.
The Go-To 15.
Yeah, yeah right, not quite ascatchy as the focus 15, but
(03:08):
right, you get a fresh cinnabonand you get a middle that's like
of someone that's just beenfrosted.
It is hard to beat that, asyou've been at the helm of all
these iconic brands.
What are some of the commonmistakes that you see that if
you walk into any restaurant,you're like all right, here's
some things that you should takea look at in your brand.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
A lot of them have been franchise brands.
A lot of times it's about thefranchise relationship to some
degree, or a misconception,right, or a disconnect in terms
of what you are promising yourbrand as a franchisor versus
what you're actually deliveringon.
And a lot of this just comesfrom the churn that happens in
the industry and you have thingslike an FDD or a franchise
(03:48):
agreement where there's anindividual franchisee who has
read all this.
Hopefully and most likely right.
They've read all this, theysigned up for it, they paid the
check and they have anexpectation driven off of those
documents right.
But if you have leadership thatcomes and goes and they're not
consuming those same documentsand living by them, it creates
(04:08):
this natural disconnect.
So if I were to summarize thelast 10 franchise brands that
I've worked at or led, that'susually where I had to start was
strengthening the relationship,clarifying what we're supposed
to be doing as a franchisor,what we should not be doing as a
franchisor, and really justeducating around the legalities,
but also that expectation infranchising.
That's usually the go-to.
(04:29):
From there I feel like everybrand so far usually has some
sort of operational disconnectwhen it comes to just having
consistent KPIs cadences andwhen they visit and what they're
supposed to do during theirvisits.
It's usually these common areasthat I see to, where you can
literally apply a playbook.
And going back to my commentearlier, this playbook I've had
(04:50):
to apply and refine at everysingle brand.
And now it's more about hey,how do I just take that playbook
and share it with a largerscaled audience?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, and that franchisee-franchisor
relationship is something thatis constant strain there.
It's tough to manage that, andyou really need a lot of
politicking, right, and it'spoliticking, but it's also just
delivery.
It's just like straight here'swhat I'm going to do, and then
doing it and earning that trust,and I think that goes both ways
.
But, yeah, that definitely istough.
(05:20):
So, as you're looking about allthis, though, I mean one thing
that the franchisees and thefranchisors could be on the same
side.
Of everything that we're doingthe technology, the food, all of
the ingredients, the locationsit's all about the guest
experience, and so what do youthink is the most important
aspect of guest experiencenowadays?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's how are you going to make it a memorable
experience for the guest, so theperson who's actually coming
into the four walls?
What are you going to do tomake it memorable in a positive
way?
You don't want it to bememorable in a negative way,
which does happen, as we allknow.
But how do you make it positiveand to your point?
That is usually the commonground that you share between
franchise or franchisee.
(05:59):
So it's so easy to tie back theconversation or the new launch
that you're working on orwhatever the change is happening
in the brand.
If you can tie it back to theguest experience, usually you
can gain the buy-in.
If you can't tie it back to theguest experience, then you got
to ask yourself should we evenbe working on this or not?
Because if it's not going toimpact the guest, then what's
really the purpose behind it?
(06:19):
Don't get me wrong.
There's some things you got todo every once in a while that
may not ever reach the guest,but for the most part, that
should be the common ground thatyou're aligned on.
So, between the two parties,it's really how do you have a
brand that stands for somethingbigger, that is capable of
making something memorable and Ialways think about personally.
There's a diner down the street.
(06:39):
Nothing special about it, it'sjust close.
It's very convenient and whenmy son was six months old, my
daughter was one.
It was a crazy Saturday morning.
Need to get them out of thehouse.
I just walked to the nearestplace.
Okay, it's convenient.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
By the way, I know nothing about that, kendall,
that is complete foreignterritory to me.
Yeah, okay, you have it worsethan I do.
I'm totally empathizing.
I am right there with you.
I'm feeling the pain, I'mfeeling the thinking about the
whole day with nothing planned,and it's like we just got to get
out of the house, just got togo.
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Put them in the stroller, make my way out.
I go to this diner.
Okay, we sit down.
Binkies are flying, people arecrying, it's all kinds of drama.
Right Wagers comes over to askme my order.
I haven't really looked at themenu yet.
I saw something about biscuitsand gravy.
I saw something about havinggreen chilies on it.
I don't really know what it was.
I just said, yeah, give me that.
And I pointed at something.
Okay, long story short, theitem that I ended up getting was
(07:35):
not something I had asked for,but I've now had it for almost
five years because I go to thatdiner every single Saturday with
my two kids.
And what happened is I orderedsomething very random and they
thought I ordered biscuits andgravy with green chilies on top
of it.
Okay, it's actually verydelicious, but it wasn't my
intent.
Every time I came back eachSaturday morning, they just kept
saying you want the same thingas last time?
(07:56):
I just said yes.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Then it turned into never asking me anything.
I would just sit down and theywould bring me the meal my kids
and I would all share, and overtime I didn't really care what
that was.
It was just a matter of how theexperience was memorable.
It was contained, my kids werehappy, they were fast about it.
We didn't waste any time.
They'd bring me my latte andit's a go cup because they know
I didn't want to spill it.
I wanted to walk home.
(08:19):
They knew all these details.
Okay, so the convenience factorof it being close to my house
got me in the door.
The memorable experiences iswhat kept us coming back.
Until one day we showed up,staff had changed and nobody
knew who we were.
I was handed menus, I was askeda bunch of questions, my kids
were getting antsy, they wereupset, they were crying.
I did not want to go back.
(08:39):
After that, gave him a few moretries and luckily the owner
noticed what was happening andmade a change.
And the owner noticed what washappening and made a change.
And the owner started actuallydocumenting certain things that
he could share about some of hisregulars.
So that way, if the team didchange, they knew how to handle
and what those expectations were.
And ever since then, right forfive years now, it has been the
most consistent and fun andmemorable experience that I have
with my kids and in myhousehold there is no Saturday.
(09:03):
You got Monday, tuesday,wednesday, thursday, friday
breakfast day, and then Sundaythat's what my kids call it they
go it's breakfast day, dad,let's go to breakfast spot, and
that's just what it's becomebecause of that experience.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
See and that is amazing because we talk about
this all the time on the podcastConvenience will get someone in
the door, Consistency willbring them back, but connection
will keep them for a lifetime,right.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And bring them back, but connection will keep them
for a lifetime Right and thatconnection is all about trust.
It's all about where everybodyknows you.
I have never sung into thismicrophone.
That felt very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Sounding good, sounding good.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But I think you're exactly right, and it's like
noticing those small things.
For example, I took my son toDisneyland a couple of weeks ago
and he got a little motionsickness from some of the rides.
So we went in and I asked oneof the staff members in a gift
shop.
I said, hey, do you have anyDramamine for kids?
And they were like, oh yeah,it's behind the counter though.
So they got it, they charged mefor it, and then we walk out of
(10:00):
the store and we kind of walkdown the sidewalk and we sit on
the bench right.
So we're probably like a good,I don't know 30, 40 yards away
from the store.
And as we're sitting there,guess what happens?
A woman that I asked if they hadgermamine came out and she had
apple juice and chocolate milkand she said, hey, can I give
(10:24):
one of these to him to drinkwith a pill, Because she knew it
wasn't a chewable pill.
And so I was like, oh yeah,let's get the apple juice.
And then she goes would youalso like a bag in case he does
throw up?
And I said, oh sure, so shegoes back, she comes back and
she doesn't just hand me a bag.
She had double bagged it,opened it up, gave it to me and
then told my son hey, here's abag in case you need to throw up
(10:48):
, but if you don't make the bag,that's okay, we have people
that'll help clean it up, right?
It happens all the time and Ijust thought about that, about
that little moment of she couldhave just said yeah, here's the
Dramamine.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But instead here you go.
Goodbye here you go goodbye.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
But that's not the Disney way, that's not
hospitality, right?
Right, it's all about how youmake people feel and that
thought of oh, they needsomething to drink it with, and
maybe they have something, maybethey don't, but let me take
these drinks from the cooler,walk out, look for them, bring
it to them.
Stuff like that, I mean, thatis the magic of Disney, that is
(11:29):
the magic of hospitality, it'sjust helping people know that
you care.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Right, right, right, it's special.
I always say that to restaurantowners you have to set the
expectation.
Whatever that expectation is,maybe it can't be like Disney,
maybe it can't be like the localdiner that I referred to, but
whatever your expectation isthat you want to deliver on, you
have to be consistent atwhatever that is.
That's up to you, that's yourchoice.
People may not perceive it thesame across the board but, like
(11:51):
my kids have an expectation.
Now, when they go in therestaurant, when we go somewhere
else, right, they're like hey,how come they're asking us all
these questions?
I'll come in and bring me myspecial meal, but it's just
different, right, because notall brands are the same.
So, to your point, right,disney has their expectation,
they live up to it.
It's the details of opening upthe bag, handing something they
didn't have to hand over, butall that adds up and you now
(12:14):
have that expectation right.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So it's just about the consistency factor.
Absolutely, and I think that'sthe magic of those three cons
right, convenience, consistency,connection, because you really
do need to ladder up to them.
I mean, had you gone back thesecond time and the biscuits and
gravy were bad, maybe becausethey're so conveniently close,
you may have come back one moretime, but if they were again
inconsistent, it doesn't matterhow convenient they are.
(12:37):
You're not going to waste yourtime on a Saturday with your
family just to have a meal thatyou're not sure is it going to
be good or not.
So, that being said, with theserestaurants, with these brands
that you've been at and with theconsulting that you do, now,
what are some tactics thatyou've seen to improve the guest
experience?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Actually leveraging the data you have access to.
I know data is a bigconversation.
There's obviously things likeCDPs and a lot more granular
data you can get your hands onnow.
However, there's also justbasic insights that sometimes
get overlooked right or aren'tbeing checked when there's a
change or a problem happening.
It makes me think aboutsomething that happened most
recently at Walk-Ons right.
(13:14):
So we were going through a menurevitalization and you know,
looking at things and percentageof sales and all the basics you
would do, queso came up as oneof those items that was a low
percentage of sales.
But also Queso kind of worksfor the sports bar makes sense.
So why would you want to getrid of it?
But sometimes you know this ishow decisions are made.
Well, someone said somethingabout it's just a hard product.
It's never really coming outright.
(13:35):
Nobody really likes it Allright.
Well, let's go into the data.
Let's understand why becauseit's queso when I've wouldn't
like queso.
We dive into the data, right,and we go and find out what the
real root cause is.
And you have to go throughfirst all the guests data you
have access to right.
Sales is one factor, but whatare the guests and consumers
(13:55):
saying about the product.
What's the highlights there?
And sure enough, you startdigging and yes, there's a lot
of comments about queso andthree other items.
So there's really four hotbuttons that were being talked
about a lot in relation to poorquality or not meeting
expectations to some degree.
So you keep digging and you dig, and you dig and, sure enough,
there was no problem at all, butit was something so simple that
(14:17):
literally changed overnight,not to be dramatic.
But what happens?
You realize that consumers aresaying all this, and so you go
back and you start looking atyour systems, your operational
procedures.
What's missing?
Why would something behappening like this?
Well, sure enough, out of thehundreds of items that that
brand has to prep every singleday, there's four items that are
not on that list.
And those four items happen tobe the four items that have to
(14:40):
be held in a heating containerand have a shelf life of only
four hours.
Well, because they were not onthe prep list, they were out of
sight, out of mind, and eitherpeople were putting way too much
in at a time and it's obviouslyjust drying out, going bad
you're wasting a whole bunch orthey weren't having enough and
the product wasn't readilyavailable Either way.
We also noticed that of thatitem, it was the highest gap we
(15:04):
had in food waste If you lookedat theoretical versus actual.
So all these factors pointedback and it was just that simple
prep sheet that needed fouritems added to it so that way
people knew how much to put outat a time and to actually manage
it, to make sure you're notwasting it and you're still
delivering high quality.
We would have never figuredthat out without the data.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And I love that.
One of our big things is likeactionable guest feedback,
because if you're not takingaction on the guest feedback,
there's no point in youcollecting it.
It's like take action now.
And I think that's one of thepowerful things about taking
action on your data is that it'snot only about finding that
one-to-one hospitality how doyou help that guest feel like
(15:45):
they're known and cared aboutbut also it's about using the
data to find the consistenttrends and differentiating
between the one-offs and thethings that need to be fixed
fundamentally with theoperational piece, as opposed to
just like someone happened tonot like the queso, that's okay,
right.
Not everyone's to not like thequeso that's okay, right.
Not everyone's going to likethe queso, but if you're having
(16:08):
operational issues, tweakingthat.
I think I love that concept.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
And I think another tactic, and maybe more of a
strategy I think brands shouldbe more open to, is the idea of
regionalizing whatever is goingon in the brand.
It's meaning that sometimes-.
So you maybe need to regionalize, meaning you're going to take
something away in a certainregion, maybe it's adding
something different.
But you hear a lot of brandswho are focused on this idea of
(16:31):
control.
When it comes to operationalconsistency which by all means
we all know you have to beconsistent.
It's almost like table stakes.
But there's a difference frombeing consistent to adapting to
your local regions.
Right, just because you have todo something slightly different
in a region doesn't mean you'reinconsistent as a brand.
Your experience can still bethe same, but sometimes you have
(16:52):
to offer something different ordo something different for that
clientele or that area thatyou're having presence in,
presence in, and so I think justhaving that open-mindedness to
understand that, yeah, you knowwhat?
Maybe in this area we do needto entertain the idea of showing
fights on television after 9 pmbecause we're a sports bar,
versus over here in a certainregion we should not because
(17:13):
it's very kid-friendly.
A lot of volume is kids doesn'tmake sense for that area.
But this idea that one sizefits all, I just don't think
works as well anymore, and sothere's got to be some
adaptation that occurs to makesure that you can meet your
consumers where they're at andbe that place that they want to
call home.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I love that.
I think that that's so powerfulbecause, yeah, you want to make
it feel like the neighborhood,the neighborhood area, and I
think that, regardless of whatit is, I think there's some
brave things like Chick-fil-A.
Putting pimento cheese on allof this stuff.
It's like, oh my gosh, I mean,do that many people actually
like pimento cheese?
(17:51):
Hey, you know what.
Good for them for doing it.
I love the boldness.
Okay Now, last questions here.
Kendall, who deserves anovation?
Who is someone that we shouldbe following in the restaurant
industry?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
I would take a look at Todd Broderick and the whole
team at Nucky's Hoagies.
So Nucky's Hoagies is basicallyan emerging franchise concept
out of Atlanta.
I've been to Philly and I'vehad the debate between Pat and
Gino's and I don't want to getyour podcast canceled by talking
about this, but I'm telling youthey have an incredible
cheesesteak right.
It's one of the best I've everhad.
(18:26):
But, long story short, they hadthis proprietary recipe that
was known for a pizza conceptbased out of Boston.
It was around for 20 plus years.
They had 10, 11 units.
It was iconic.
Well, they won a ton of awardsfor this pizza dough.
Well, they were able to takethis pizza dough and convert it
into a hoagie recipe, and soit's something truly special.
It's very, very, I would say,intriguing and interesting, and
it just has this higher qualitytaste compared to most
(18:47):
sandwiches out there when itcomes to the bread itself.
But long story short, they arescaling.
They're in growth mode.
They're doing things the rightway slow and steady, but they
keep people at the forefront ofeverything they do.
They're all about how theydrive a purpose and try to
create some sort of positiveimpact in their communities.
So awesome brand.
I would definitely check themout and give them a follow and
see what they're up to.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I mean their website and the menu just look awesome.
Oh, yeah, love it.
Yeah, it'll get you.
And, kendall, where can peoplego to find and follow you?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Sure, so my website's the best place to go
Kendallwarecom, nice and simple.
That's where I have a lot of mycontent and offerings and
services and all that.
Then, of course, linkedin, asyou mentioned, but also
Instagram.
I try to stay pretty strong andfrequent on Instagram as well,
but, yeah, any one of thoseplatforms would be great.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Awesome.
Well, kendall, for putting outideas that inspire institutions
and individuals to be better.
Today's ovation goes to you.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation.
Awesome man.
Thank you for having meAppreciate it.
Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
If you liked this episode, leave us a review on
Apple Podcasts or your favoriteplace to listen.
We're all about feedback here.
Again, this episode wassponsored by Ovation, a
two-question SMS-basedactionable guest feedback
platform built for multi-unitrestaurants.
If you'd like to learn how wecan help you measure and create
a better guest experience, visitus at OvationUpcom.
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