June 10, 2024 • 30 mins
Curious about how artificial intelligence is reshaping the future of education? In our latest episode, we sit down with tech wonder Pauldy Otermans from the Otermans Institute to uncover how AI revolutionizes the classroom. From personalized learning experiences that cater to each student's unique needs to advanced content creation tools that support teachers, we explore how technology makes education more interactive and individualized. You'll gain insights into how AI can provide detailed student engagement and comprehension data, allowing educators to offer more targeted support and ultimately improve student outcomes.
We also delve into the ethical and legal considerations of AI in education, sparked by recent controversies involving the unauthorized use of voice likenesses, like Scarlett Johansson's case. This episode highlights the critical balance between technological advancements and human interaction in learning. We discuss the undervaluation of the teaching profession, its historical gender biases, and the alarming shortage of educators needed to achieve universal basic education. Tune in to understand the transformative power of AI in education and why the human element remains irreplaceable in shaping future generations.
About Pauldy Oterman, Co-Founder of OIAI by Otermans Institute
Dr. Pauldy Otermans is a female tech leader in the UK. She is a neuroscientist and psychologist with an academic background and a female leader in AI technology. She was awarded as the inspiration
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Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi and welcome to Citizen Journalist.
I'm your host, shalman Isis,also known as Cynthia to my
friends and family, and I'm veryexcited because we're having an
episode to talk about one of myfavorite topics, which is
artificial intelligence and, ofcourse, you know, learning,
which I think go hand in hand,and I have a special guest with
me today, paulie Ottermans fromthe Ottermans Institute.
(00:21):
Welcome and thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
I can't wait to get started anddiscuss with you all about AI
and education.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
You guys will laugh, but ifyou're a follower of the show,
you might have already heardthis story, but I recorded four
interviews in a row and, for thefirst time ever, they just
disappeared, and so Pauly and Ihave already had the chance to
have a test run, if you will.
So, pauly, can you please tellwhat are your thoughts on what
is going on in AI right now?
(00:51):
Let's just jump right into it.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's an interesting question to start with.
Actually.
I mean it's fascinating, it'sexciting.
Some people find it scary.
I don't find it scary at all.
I love it.
You know I can't get enough ofit, but it is rapidly evolving
and moving so fast that it'sdifficult to keep up with.
I must say, you know it's afull-time job almost to keep up
with what is coming out on analmost daily basis now and to
(01:15):
talk to mind-like people, andeverybody has an opinion on it,
which is great.
But there is so much unknownyet as well in terms of legal
stuff, in terms of data privacy.
You know there is a lot ofthings yet to be discussed and
figured out.
But I think the next few years,I would say, are going to be
really interesting and I sort ofcan't wait to continue this
(01:36):
journey.
It's a roller coaster reallythat doesn't seem to have an
ending yet, which is good.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, it really is the industrial
revolution of our generation.
It's an exciting time to bealive and I hope people will let
go of the fear that just comesfrom.
You know we love to.
The society is designed toutilize fear to sell things.
We know that media is reallyshameless that way, and
politicians are pretty shamelessthat way too, and they're using
(02:02):
the unknown in AI to scarepeople, and sure it does have
potential for that, but I thinkit will create great abundance.
What's the area of artificialintelligence that you think is
the most exciting right now?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I think.
Well, the area that I'm in inthe AI and education, because I
think education is such anindustry that has not really
been that much disrupted as suchand it's been very, I guess,
traditional for a long time.
You know, we still haveclassrooms, we still sit there,
we listen to someone who isexplaining something, we make
notes and then we get tested onit a few weeks later, and that
(02:36):
system hasn't really beenchanged a lot.
Yes, there is online resourcesnow and you have access to a lot
of content on the internet andwith everything becoming digital
and you have access to a lot ofcontent on the internet and
with everything becoming digitalbut I think there is so much
that AI can do that to enhancenot just the learning experience
for the students or thelearners, but also for those
that are delivering the content,you know, helping them better
support their students, bettergive that personalized touch to
(02:59):
when they're actually working.
Potentially, you know, also oneto one, because how difficult is
it to have 50 learners in theroom and give them all your
attention?
You can't, because you can'tsplit yourself in 50 things.
So the use of AI can help themas well and I think it helps
them in a variety of waysContent creation, assessment
creation, feedback,understanding each specific
(03:21):
learner's journey, becauseeverybody learns differently.
Right, you may want to learn atnight, I don't, I want to learn
in the morning.
You want visuals, I don't, Iwant audio.
So you know, everybody isdifferent and to meet
everybody's individual demandsis complex and very time
consuming.
So I think there's so muchscope there that it's almost
niche within the educationsector that one can tap into.
(03:42):
That can just support everybodyin a meaningful way.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, I love that.
You know you just painted areally beautiful vision for
education Teachers.
I think one of the things wehave to be careful of is that we
don't go so computer driventhat we remove the human element
, even though we know that thefuture of AI will involve very
human like behaviors.
But the energy, the energeticexchange between humans,
particularly a mentor over astudent, is so important and the
(04:09):
really best teachers throughouthistory were people that
managed to really they couldn'tdo what an AI can do.
It'll really be able to tailora learning program to a
particular type of personalityand behavior.
But that you know.
Can you imagine those greatteachers if they had had that
power to be able toindividualize the education and
simultaneously be able to go inand be that that very human
(04:31):
moment that helps people grow?
I think it's so exciting.
What are your thoughts?
I'm dying to ask you thisquestion.
Chatgpt had kind of aninteresting week last week or
recently, depending on whenyou're listening to this where
Scarlett Johansson had gottenupset because the voice that
they were using sounded an awfullot like her.
(04:53):
What are your thoughts on whatthat brings to the surface, the
issues with AI that that bringsto surface?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, there is lots of media out there and even
today, I think there was anotheryoutube thing that came out.
I haven't yet listened to itand I think this is exactly one
of the fears I think that a lotof people have that it
replicates someone or itduplicates, it uses their data
well, without them givingconsent or um, I think it's also
(05:25):
because of the unknown.
As we said before, a lot ofpeople have not yet fully
understood, firstly, what ai isthere's a lot of misconceptions
about that then what it can doand how you can actually use it
to your benefit.
And when it comes to using likevoices, like stuff, there is a
lot of gray areas, even withinlegal settings.
That it's not that it's this orthat.
(05:46):
There is very, very bigdecisions that need to be made,
probably on a very high level ornational levels, or even global
levels.
That that we're not there yet.
But the technology is there,but we are not there yet in
terms of what we think as asociety.
Is, you know, right or wrong?
Where does the, where is theframework?
Where are these boundaries?
These have not yet been created, so it's very difficult to
(06:08):
already give judgments if thetechnology has moved further
ahead than where we are with ourrules and regulations, and of
course, they can also be countryspecific.
But you can do so many thingswith AI nowadays, right Indeed
voices.
It's very you know you can clonea voice.
You can use that.
The same with videos.
You know you can ask any.
I create a video about X, y, z,and there you go, within a few
(06:29):
minutes you have a lovely videothat you may want to use for, I
know, your marketing promotionor something else.
So it is a difficult situation.
I think we're only going tohear more of these types of
stories in the next few months.
I don't think this is the endof it yet.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, you know it's interesting.
You look at like a chat, gptand a Google and and you know,
or any of the generative modelsin particular, and and you, if
you understand how it, how itworked, it basically scraped
everything and and built a whatwill be one of the most valuable
companies in the world off ofthe off of the preexisting
creative and labor of of reallytalented people.
(07:04):
And it's there's kind of likethis really strange thing there
where it's like how can youbuild a company off the backs of
all these people but they don'tget anything for it and yet you
go on to be one of the mostvaluable companies in the world.
And should we?
Should it have happened anyother way?
Or was it even possible for usto have that kind of progress
without people just going?
Just do it and we'll apologizefor it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, true, no, I think that's a good point and
that's something that when we'relooking at our own organization
, so we built AI teachers thatteach humans, in both corporates
in terms of, you know, thelearning and development sphere
so often working with HR or L&Das well as education
institutions where the AIteacher teaches students, or
working for, for instance,universities or further
education colleges.
One of the things that wealways say, that a lot of our
(07:50):
customers you know, you seethere, you see a sigh of relief
when we say that we don't useany of these open, you know,
generative AI models that areout there, like ChatGPT or
Gemini or one of the other ones.
Right, there is no more thanthose two.
We have our own fine-tunedlanguage model that is trained
on our own proprietary data thatwe use to create the teaching
(08:11):
lessons, and they can uploadtheir own documents.
So, let's say, you have yourown document, you created it,
you wrote it, it's your IP.
Now I think you're a bit scaredrightfully so to put this in
ChatGPT and ask it to put thisin ChatGPT and ask it.
Well, can you just summarizethis for me, because you don't
have time to read it nowyourself?
It's 25 pages.
You just want a quick, concisesummary to send it to someone.
But you don't want to do thatbecause then ChatGPT has your
(08:32):
documents and it goes into thatether and it's always going to
be there.
You can't take it back.
Now.
What we do instead is yes, youteacher creates that lesson, but
then the document, the documentdoesn't stay with us it's with
you, so your ip is protected.
Yeah so that's one way, andthat's where all these, all the
people that we work with, arelike ah, okay, yeah yeah, ip is
(08:54):
protected and it's not gonna gointo you and you know it's still
mine and I don't have to givethis up yeah, you know it's
interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You just brought up a good point.
I love that.
That about the OttomansInstitute the fact that the
teachers are being honored fortheir knowledge is huge and that
safety and ethicalcircumstances are incredible Is
that there should be a switch onany of the programs, like a
chat, gpt or whatever you know.
(09:20):
There's so many now where youcan say I do not want this
information to be used to trainyour programs.
I'm, you know, as an author.
I've written a couple of booksand I've put things in there and
I'm like this is actually areally excellent idea that
doesn't already exist.
You know how do I stop thatexcellent idea from being taken
and needs?
You can't.
Exactly yeah exactly what iswhat do you think?
(09:47):
What the other?
So education, obviously for you, and I can't wait to.
I want to hear more about theottomans institute.
Um, before we get to that, uh,what is another area and
industry that you think isreally going to be dramatically
transformed by ai taking off?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think it's health care or medicine.
Health care, uh, you, theamount of data in AI can digest
and analyze and then look at andpatterns in such a short time.
No human will ever be able todo that.
So I think it can reallysupport again, not replace the
doctor, but support in diagnosisof diseases, predicting,
(10:20):
looking, putting lots of data init and see what is going to
happen, what could potentiallybe.
You know the areas that thispatient may go happen, what
could potentially be.
You know the areas that thispatient may go into.
What sort of treatment plansshould we do based on previous
data, what has worked, whathasn't worked, so that you can
really give a personalized,tailored support plan or
treatment plan for theparticular patients?
I think that's an area where itcan just really help not just
(10:42):
the patient but also the doctors, because they have to make
these decisions and they're verytough decisions to make Looking
at a scan or a photo of aparticular area of the body and
then having to make a decisionthat can mean life or death,
whilst with the support of theAI, they have all that data that
they can now look at in afraction of a second, and
beforehand it would have takenthem weeks to analyse that data,
(11:03):
so to speak, by themselves orconsult with colleagues in other
fields.
So I think that is an areawhere it can really support also
society sort of more in general.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, I love that it really democratizes home health
care and also, when it gets tomore serious levels, the
technology.
You know it's amazing.
It's amazing what's alreadygoing on and, as a futurist I
can, I'm seeing what's comingtwo, three years down the line
and I'm like, oh my God, thisworld's not going to look
anything the same in five years.
(11:31):
It's so exciting.
Um, tell me about theOtterman's Institute, because I
know that our listeners would befascinated to hear about how
you're utilizing it and what itmeans for education.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, so, as I mentioned, we build AI teachers
that teach humans in corporatesand higher education
institutions, and I think onething to already note here,
before I give a bit more details, is that we're not here to
replace the human teacher, sowe're not here to take anybody's
job away is that we're not hereto replace the human teacher,
so we're not here to takeanybody's job away.
I think that's really crucialto note, because sometimes
people think, oh my God, you'regoing to take my job away or the
teacher's job.
(12:05):
That's such an awful thing todo.
Not at all.
It's actually the contrary.
We're here to support, let'ssay, about education, if you're
thinking about the highereducation sector, we're here to
support the teachers, teacherswith the students learning
outside the classroom.
So, to give you like an example, so let's say, today you gave a
session of a particular topicand you had 30 students in your
(12:25):
classroom.
Great, now you tell them okay,I'll see you guys next week, but
please go and go over thisdocument.
So you give them document oneand two.
Now, next week, they're allcoming back and the first thing
you're gonna ask hey, tell me,raise your hand who has read
document one and two?
And there may be a few handssort of slowly going up, that's
it.
You know I've read it, but alot of students they are well,
(12:47):
they don't want to say theymight say I've read it but they
haven't, because they don't wantto admit they didn't do the
homework, or they are afraid toraise their hand because they
questions no way, because Idon't really know the answers.
So you actually are not reallysure.
And then when you go throughyour workshop or your seminar
with these 30 students on thosetwo documents only, then you
sort of find out hey, I don'tknow.
(13:08):
John seems to know everything.
Polly doesn't seem to know muchabout this concept.
Maria it's a bit here and there.
Cynthia great.
She actually needs a moredifficult paper because this was
too easy for her.
And whilst you're going throughthat let's say it's two hours
you only are then able tosupport them.
But how much can you do in twohours?
Right, you're only one of youand you're trying to help them
all at the same time.
(13:29):
So what you can do now insteadwith our AI teacher is you'd
still do your lecture.
You say see you next week.
But now you say go throughthese two documents with the AI
teacher.
So you would upload thosedocuments and, as I mentioned,
they stay with you.
It's your IP.
Our AI synthesizes thatinformation and, let's say,
(13:49):
breaks it down in, let's say,subsections, and also, after
each subsection, the AI teacherwill quiz the students using, I
don't know multiple choicequestions, open questions.
I mean you are in control,you're the teacher, you decide
what sort of activities you wantyour students to do and then
the students go on theirindividual devices through these
lessons at their own pace, intheir own time.
So you know, you might want todo it Friday afternoon, I may
(14:09):
want to do it Sunday evening.
It's up to me because you knowthat's 24-7 accessible.
But whilst the teacher is goingthrough the content and
explaining these subsections tome, I may not understand
something.
So I can raise my hand, as wenowadays all have been
accustomed to on Teams and Zoomor other platforms, and I can
ask a question as a student.
So I might say, hey, I didn'tget that, can you explain this
(14:30):
again or can you clarify this?
Or, you know, I can clarify anydoubts I may have.
So the student has a verypersonalized, tailored
experience to go through thesedocuments before they come to
the physical classroom with theteacher where they go, do
activities or go further withthe content.
But you, as the teacher, alsoget lots of data, so you get to
find out who did it, how longdid it take?
(14:54):
Did they answer these questionsof the AI well, how well did
they take part in theseactivities?
But also, ah, john asked thesequestions to the AI, paldi asked
these questions, maria askedthose.
There seemed to be a clearmisunderstanding of this concept
.
I need to go and discuss thisin class with them so, again,
you also learn.
You almost see what they'rethinking, right.
What is it that they are notunderstanding?
(15:15):
Is there maybe a fundamentalgap in the type of content you
may be given that lecture thatactually no one really
understood and that only becomesclear now?
So you can then also use thatdata to you know, give further
personalized support, either inthe classroom or with more
sessions afterwards.
So it's a win-win for both thestudents and the teachers.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Very much so that's so exciting.
You know, I'm a collegeprofessor, so I'm loving, loving
, I'm eating it up, I'm like, oh, I love that.
Does it measure?
Is it is it?
Does it measure behavior Ithink it's probably the word I'm
looking for or intent, so like,um, when somebody gets
struggles or pauses, that kindof thing, is there going to be
(15:54):
that kind of data, so that, like, where somebody got frustrated,
if you will, is that where it'sheaded?
Like, imagine biofeedback,being able to tell the teacher,
if that would even be allowed Isthat kind of the direction that
that's headed in, you think?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I would say, yeah, it could do, indeed, if it's
allowed, I think that would bethe first thing one would have
to look at.
Yeah, yeah, but at the momentthe student can either type or
they can use the mic.
So a lot of it for us is voicefirst, because a lot of us tend
to type in.
You know, we use voice a lot,even when we're sending messages
to one another, we often drop avoice note.
So a lot of people, especiallythe younger generations, really
(16:30):
have a custom to that.
So we really drive the voicefirst element.
At the moment, we're justshowing that later on to the
teacher as a transcript.
This is what the students wereasking, not necessarily to the
teacher as a transcript.
Right, this was the things thestudents was asking, not
necessarily.
Yet analyzing how they weresaying that, you know, was there
any particular emotion behindthat?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
That is a bit tricky as well in terms of the analysis
.
I was just curious because Iknow I've had that experience
with some things that I'mescaping me right now, that
experience where I was like howdid you know that?
So interesting.
I love this topic.
I think that the world has hada lot of issues come up and this
is the book I'm finishing rightnow.
(17:09):
A New American Dream talks aboutthat.
You know, kind of like thecorporate greed is sort of
backed us against the wall and alot of countries are struggling
.
You know births are down likewe're going through a real
transformation and I think thisis such an incredible time to be
alive, to leverage technologyto deal with so many issues.
And in our students, you know,there's so much smarter and I
(17:32):
love that you brought that up inthe beginning.
You're talking about howeducation has remained, you know
, very dated, if you will, andand it hasn't evolved um at near
the space, the pace that thechildren's experience, life
experience, has evolved.
You know they're, they're like,like somebody said to me, I
don't understand why they're sostressed.
I'm like, do you realize thatfrom the time they were born
(17:53):
they were had a phone in theirhand.
So they've been like almostgodlike in some ways, and and
children at the same time, andwe've never looked at that or
addressed the, the real impactof that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
So, um, that's an interesting topic as well.
Yeah, yeah, like the fact thatyou know when, when people are
born nowadays, they tend to havea phone at a very young age, or
at least use their parentsphone or devices if they, you
know, don't get their own yet.
And that's quite an interestingdebate as such as to how much
should we allow children.
And there has just been arecent new paper came out last
(18:27):
week in the UK whatgovernment-wise they want to
push schools to really reducethe amount of phone usage or
smart device uses in schools.
This is obviously thinking moreabout primary, secondary
education, higher education.
They're adults so they can maketheir own decisions.
But I think that is a veryinteresting debate because one
(18:49):
says, you know, the one hand isoh too much screen time cannot
be good for well-being.
You know, especially when youpeople are on social media and
scrolling through that andseeing lots of all sorts of
things, they can get overwhelmed.
As you said, there's lots of,there's so much information
flying at us every other minute.
Especially when you scrollthrough social media, there
could be things that make themanxious or upset, depressed.
There is just so much, there'sa lot of overload, so their
(19:11):
well-being may be affected.
On the other hand, they willneed to use technology, whether
we're talking about AI or not,but technology is so much part
of our lives nowadays, right, Ithink a lot of people.
We don't even use the bank cardsanymore.
No.
How do you pay in a supermarket?
You swipe your phone in thatreader, right.
How do you go on the bus?
You swipe the phone.
How do you get a taxi?
(19:31):
You order it online.
You don't call someone anymore.
Everything is online.
Everything is digital.
The way we communicate, the waywe talk to people, everything
is digital.
The way we communicate, the waywe talk to people, everything
is digital and everything usestechnology.
So, young children.
I think it's important that, orat least children in general
there needs to be the balance ofusing the technology and
teaching them from a very youngage.
What are the boundaries ofusing technology?
(19:53):
What should you use it for,what you should not, where you
should keep an eye Cybersecurity things, websites and
things.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Young people, students and at all you know
certain topics, trauma inducingcontent, of course, yeah, but
just saying, no, let's not useit at all.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It imagine how that looks like if they then go to
school yeah, and if never usethe technology, that's not
helping them.
It's the same as we, if youknow, when I went to university,
to school, said, okay, you needto keep using only the
calculator, you're not allowedto use microsoft excel.
And then I would go and try andget a job.
You know they would say, okay,show me your data analysis
skills in excel.
I'm like, oh, what is excel?
(20:30):
I have no idea what you'retalking about.
You know that would not be goodfor my job prospect prospects
later on.
So I think it's the same withtechnology as well as with AI
tools.
We need to teach the youngergenerations well, also the
current generations, but ifwe're thinking about the future,
you know we need to teach them.
What are these AI tools, howshould you use them, what can
you use them for, what youshould not use them for, and
(20:51):
teach them to be responsiblewith these things, because AI is
here to stay, whether you likeit or not.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, I agree, and I think I think this, that sort of
attitude of no none, it's likewell, I hate to tell you this,
but we need to look at ourchildren as cyborgs, which
sounds extreme, but but it istrue.
When you realize thateverything they're going to do
is going to involve theirengagement, whether it's in
their body or or in their hand,it's not a not a whole lot of
(21:21):
difference.
Um, and the things that nobodytalks about is?
They talk about screen time,but it's not just about screen
time.
It's about the maturity to beable to handle the burden of the
world's knowledge at such ayoung age and having access to
that and what that does to theirminds.
People are like I don'tunderstand why mental health
issues have increased sodramatically with younger
generations, and it's like whatdo you understand what they're
(21:43):
exposed to from infancy and theburden of all of that knowledge
at too young of an age, withoutthe emotional and mental
maturity nor the practices thatallow people to stay in a
healthy emotional and mentalspace?
It's like we're handing themthe technology, but not the
technology, the innerengineering, if you will, to
quote Sadhguru, to keep thebalance that's required to see
(22:07):
things for what they are and toexist in a life that's actually
present in the now and not allonline.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
important thing that we're not addressing is like is
teaching the kids what real lifeis, while simultaneously
teaching them how to handletechnology and how to leverage
it, but also put it where itbelongs, when they need to
definitely, and I think, as yousaid, there is so much content
out there, yet we still have aglobal skills and literacy gap
(22:35):
which is very big, and it's notreally strong recently, so that
that gap is still really muchthere.
So, if content would solve thisproblem because everybody say,
well, all the content is outthere, they can access it well,
clearly, you know the access tocontent is not going to solve
the problem, so hence, that'sone of the reasons why we
believe that, when you'rethinking about learning, there's
content definitely, thatdefinitely plays but there is
(22:58):
also the teacher, and thatteacher element is what you make
understand what content to lookat and what content to use,
what not to use, becauseotherwise, youtube, free
distribution of books, all ofthose things would have solved
all these problems.
Well, they're clearly notsolved.
So what is the missing piecethen?
Well, it's the teacher.
There is a shortage of we needanother teacher 44 million new
(23:20):
teachers by 2030, a recentreport from UNESCO to just get
or to just meet universal basiceducation.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Wow, you just gave me chill bumps because that's.
That's one job where people arerunning from it because we
won't take care of them.
Yep, the way they deserve to betaken care of we're not seeing.
The role of a teacher isimportant, primarily because it
was.
It was an inhabited role,inhabited by females, you know.
That's the origin of that,because we devalue the feminine
(23:50):
to keep her in her place.
That's just what thepatriarchal society built.
That in the same thing, like inamerica.
Child care and I hate to getoff topic here, but it does
relate back to why teachers areleaving because they looked at
the job as almost a feminine job, so it's of less value.
Without understanding that,it's like we're creating the
future of our world anddevaluing the very people who
(24:10):
have one of the most essentialroles in that.
And since the parents are gonemost of the time, the teacher
really is important and beingable to provide them with tools
like otterman's institute, umhuge deal.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I think that starts also from that younger age.
It's not just oh, now you go touniversity, so you need that
other support, or you go to afurther college, it doesn't
really matter.
It starts from that young agebecause, you rightfully said,
parents cannot always be there.
They may have to have the jobright.
They need to make sure there isenough they meet their primary
needs.
There is a house, there is ahouse, there is everything.
(24:45):
They might also not have theknowledge to support their child
when they come from school withparticular questions.
You know they might not know,that might not be their area,
they might not know anythingabout it, so they don't know how
to support.
So, again using.
So one of the use cases of alsohaving our own language model
is that it can be plugged intoother edtech tools.
It can be plugged into otheredtech tools.
So one of the things we did iswe used our AI model and plugged
(25:07):
it into a Unity game calledTeddy AI, which is a teddy bear
that is talking to the children,primarily focused for four to
seven years old, but it's alsothere to give, almost like that
buddy right, A study buddy tothe children.
They can play games, of course,and have fun, but it's an
educational app but it's AIdriven.
But now, as the parent, youmight think, okay, my kid is
(25:28):
again playing a game or watchingcartoons.
I really want to know whatthey're doing when they're on
these devices.
And one of the things the parentcan do with Teddy and still be
involved in that learningjourney, even if they have no
clue about what they're learningin school in history or
geography or science, they canask Teddy.
(25:49):
Teddy, next time you talk to mychild you know, please I don't
know talk about the capitals ofthe world or multiplication of
two, or I know you may know whatyour child is not that good at.
You've got a report from theschool so you can ask or prompt
right technically, you're promptengineering, but you're
prompting Teddy.
You know to do that with yourchild and you then get feedback
as the parent.
Well, actually, you know yourchild did this right, did this
wrong, and you can thenobviously use that maybe in your
vocabulary with the child ornext time you talk to the
(26:11):
teacher.
So, again, as a parent, you canget involved with the use of
technology and how your child,especially those on a young age,
are using these technologiesand what they're learning from
it.
So you know it doesn't alwayshave to be a bad thing and you
still can be part of thatjourney.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I love that you gamified it with the teddy and
also, I love the idea thatparents get almost like a it's
almost like a report card, yeahon where they're at, which
allows them to have conversationwith their child.
That sounds like it isn't justdoesn't just sound, it puts them
in in their educationalprogress in a way that the child
feels like their parents areinvolved in it, where, I think,
(26:48):
a lot of kids, because theirparents are either busy or they
don't know how to relate to thecontent.
It's helping translate it.
Yeah, that's incredible.
I love that.
Oh, it's an exciting time to bealive, um, so, so before, if
our, if our, uh listeners wantedto learn more about, um, the
work that you do, where wouldthey go?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
they can follow us on almost all the social media
channels where, if you lookottomans institute on linkedin,
that's your preferred platform.
We are on x?
Um oiedu.
We are on instagram.
We are on our website if youjust oiedIEDUcouk or, I'm sure
you will post all the thingsunderneath the post with the
relevant hyperlinks.
That makes it even easier.
(27:31):
Just click on it.
Or you can send me an email oninfo at OIEDUcouk.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I love that.
Well, polly, thank you so muchand congratulations on all the
work for the Otterman'sInstitute.
Well, polly, thank you so muchand congratulations on all the
work for the Otterman'sInstitute.
It's incredible.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's so important and Ithink when people hear about AI
these days, they so often getbought into the fear and what
it's going to do.
That's wrong and I think we'resmart enough to handle that, and
(27:59):
it's nice to have an episodewhere we're focusing and talking
so much about the beautifulthings that are coming with AI.
So congratulations to you.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Thank you so much and thank you so much for having me
.
I hope this will lead to aseries of positive talks about
AI and not only the scary partsthat people may be facing, but
they can see another side of AIthat they may have not seen yet.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh well, gosh, thank you somuch, you guys, for listening
today.
I hope you enjoyed that episodeon artificial intelligence.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, what are you
thinking?
You know intelligent listening,so please subscribe to Citizen
Journalist.
If you're not familiar with mywork, oh gosh, I've got good
(28:42):
news.
I should say my new book, a NewAmerican Dream, hit number one,
which I'm really excited about,and so that makes two number
ones, which makes me very proud.
My mother must be thrilled.
So please go check out my booksat shamanicistcom.
And if you want to learn aboutSoulTech, please visit
soultechfoundationorg to learnabout the work that we're doing
(29:06):
there.
And thank you so much forhonoring us with your time and
energy.
And, pauldi, you go be a badass.
Honestly, I'm so impressed.
Thanks again for coming on theshow.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Bye-bye, bye, you guys.
Hi and welcome to Citizen Journalist.
I'm your host, shalman Isis,also known as Cynthia to my
friends and family, and I'm veryexcited because we're having an
episode to talk about one of myfavorite topics, which is
artificial intelligence and, ofcourse, you know, learning,
which I think go hand in hand,and I have a special guest with
me today, paulie Ottermans fromthe Ottermans Institute.
(00:21):
Welcome and thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
I can't wait to get started anddiscuss with you all about AI
and education.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
You guys will laugh, but ifyou're a follower of the show,
you might have already heardthis story, but I recorded four
interviews in a row and, for thefirst time ever, they just
disappeared, and so Pauly and Ihave already had the chance to
have a test run, if you will.
So, pauly, can you please tellwhat are your thoughts on what
is going on in AI right now?
(00:51):
Let's just jump right into it.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
That's an interesting question to start with.
Actually.
I mean it's fascinating, it'sexciting.
Some people find it scary.
I don't find it scary at all.
I love it.
You know I can't get enough ofit, but it is rapidly evolving
and moving so fast that it'sdifficult to keep up with.
I must say, you know it's afull-time job almost to keep up
with what is coming out on analmost daily basis now and to
(01:15):
talk to mind-like people, andeverybody has an opinion on it,
which is great.
But there is so much unknownyet as well in terms of legal
stuff, in terms of data privacy.
You know there is a lot ofthings yet to be discussed and
figured out.
But I think the next few years,I would say, are going to be
really interesting and I sort ofcan't wait to continue this
(01:36):
journey.
It's a roller coaster reallythat doesn't seem to have an
ending yet, which is good.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, you know, it really is the industrial
revolution of our generation.
It's an exciting time to bealive and I hope people will let
go of the fear that just comesfrom.
You know we love to.
The society is designed toutilize fear to sell things.
We know that media is reallyshameless that way, and
politicians are pretty shamelessthat way too, and they're using
(02:02):
the unknown in AI to scarepeople, and sure it does have
potential for that, but I thinkit will create great abundance.
What's the area of artificialintelligence that you think is
the most exciting right now?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I think.
Well, the area that I'm in inthe AI and education, because I
think education is such anindustry that has not really
been that much disrupted as suchand it's been very, I guess,
traditional for a long time.
You know, we still haveclassrooms, we still sit there,
we listen to someone who isexplaining something, we make
notes and then we get tested onit a few weeks later, and that
(02:36):
system hasn't really beenchanged a lot.
Yes, there is online resourcesnow and you have access to a lot
of content on the internet andwith everything becoming digital
and you have access to a lot ofcontent on the internet and
with everything becoming digitalbut I think there is so much
that AI can do that to enhancenot just the learning experience
for the students or thelearners, but also for those
that are delivering the content,you know, helping them better
support their students, bettergive that personalized touch to
(02:59):
when they're actually working.
Potentially, you know, also oneto one, because how difficult is
it to have 50 learners in theroom and give them all your
attention?
You can't, because you can'tsplit yourself in 50 things.
So the use of AI can help themas well and I think it helps
them in a variety of waysContent creation, assessment
creation, feedback,understanding each specific
(03:21):
learner's journey, becauseeverybody learns differently.
Right, you may want to learn atnight, I don't, I want to learn
in the morning.
You want visuals, I don't, Iwant audio.
So you know, everybody isdifferent and to meet
everybody's individual demandsis complex and very time
consuming.
So I think there's so muchscope there that it's almost
niche within the educationsector that one can tap into.
(03:42):
That can just support everybodyin a meaningful way.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, I love that.
You know you just painted areally beautiful vision for
education Teachers.
I think one of the things wehave to be careful of is that we
don't go so computer driventhat we remove the human element
, even though we know that thefuture of AI will involve very
human like behaviors.
But the energy, the energeticexchange between humans,
particularly a mentor over astudent, is so important and the
(04:09):
really best teachers throughouthistory were people that
managed to really they couldn'tdo what an AI can do.
It'll really be able to tailora learning program to a
particular type of personalityand behavior.
But that you know.
Can you imagine those greatteachers if they had had that
power to be able toindividualize the education and
simultaneously be able to go inand be that that very human
(04:31):
moment that helps people grow?
I think it's so exciting.
What are your thoughts?
I'm dying to ask you thisquestion.
Chatgpt had kind of aninteresting week last week or
recently, depending on whenyou're listening to this where
Scarlett Johansson had gottenupset because the voice that
they were using sounded an awfullot like her.
(04:53):
What are your thoughts on whatthat brings to the surface, the
issues with AI that that bringsto surface?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, there is lots of media out there and even
today, I think there was anotheryoutube thing that came out.
I haven't yet listened to itand I think this is exactly one
of the fears I think that a lotof people have that it
replicates someone or itduplicates, it uses their data
well, without them givingconsent or um, I think it's also
(05:25):
because of the unknown.
As we said before, a lot ofpeople have not yet fully
understood, firstly, what ai isthere's a lot of misconceptions
about that then what it can doand how you can actually use it
to your benefit.
And when it comes to using likevoices, like stuff, there is a
lot of gray areas, even withinlegal settings.
That it's not that it's this orthat.
(05:46):
There is very, very bigdecisions that need to be made,
probably on a very high level ornational levels, or even global
levels.
That that we're not there yet.
But the technology is there,but we are not there yet in
terms of what we think as asociety.
Is, you know, right or wrong?
Where does the, where is theframework?
Where are these boundaries?
These have not yet been created, so it's very difficult to
(06:08):
already give judgments if thetechnology has moved further
ahead than where we are with ourrules and regulations, and of
course, they can also be countryspecific.
But you can do so many thingswith AI nowadays, right Indeed
voices.
It's very you know you can clonea voice.
You can use that.
The same with videos.
You know you can ask any.
I create a video about X, y, z,and there you go, within a few
(06:29):
minutes you have a lovely videothat you may want to use for, I
know, your marketing promotionor something else.
So it is a difficult situation.
I think we're only going tohear more of these types of
stories in the next few months.
I don't think this is the endof it yet.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, you know it's interesting.
You look at like a chat, gptand a Google and and you know,
or any of the generative modelsin particular, and and you, if
you understand how it, how itworked, it basically scraped
everything and and built a whatwill be one of the most valuable
companies in the world off ofthe off of the preexisting
creative and labor of of reallytalented people.
(07:04):
And it's there's kind of likethis really strange thing there
where it's like how can youbuild a company off the backs of
all these people but they don'tget anything for it and yet you
go on to be one of the mostvaluable companies in the world.
And should we?
Should it have happened anyother way?
Or was it even possible for usto have that kind of progress
without people just going?
Just do it and we'll apologizefor it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, true, no, I think that's a good point and
that's something that when we'relooking at our own organization
, so we built AI teachers thatteach humans, in both corporates
in terms of, you know, thelearning and development sphere
so often working with HR or L&Das well as education
institutions where the AIteacher teaches students, or
working for, for instance,universities or further
education colleges.
One of the things that wealways say, that a lot of our
(07:50):
customers you know, you seethere, you see a sigh of relief
when we say that we don't useany of these open, you know,
generative AI models that areout there, like ChatGPT or
Gemini or one of the other ones.
Right, there is no more thanthose two.
We have our own fine-tunedlanguage model that is trained
on our own proprietary data thatwe use to create the teaching
(08:11):
lessons, and they can uploadtheir own documents.
So, let's say, you have yourown document, you created it,
you wrote it, it's your IP.
Now I think you're a bit scaredrightfully so to put this in
ChatGPT and ask it to put thisin ChatGPT and ask it.
Well, can you just summarizethis for me, because you don't
have time to read it nowyourself?
It's 25 pages.
You just want a quick, concisesummary to send it to someone.
But you don't want to do thatbecause then ChatGPT has your
(08:32):
documents and it goes into thatether and it's always going to
be there.
You can't take it back.
Now.
What we do instead is yes, youteacher creates that lesson, but
then the document, the documentdoesn't stay with us it's with
you, so your ip is protected.
Yeah so that's one way, andthat's where all these, all the
people that we work with, arelike ah, okay, yeah yeah, ip is
(08:54):
protected and it's not gonna gointo you and you know it's still
mine and I don't have to givethis up yeah, you know it's
interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You just brought up a good point.
I love that.
That about the OttomansInstitute the fact that the
teachers are being honored fortheir knowledge is huge and that
safety and ethicalcircumstances are incredible Is
that there should be a switch onany of the programs, like a
chat, gpt or whatever you know.
(09:20):
There's so many now where youcan say I do not want this
information to be used to trainyour programs.
I'm, you know, as an author.
I've written a couple of booksand I've put things in there and
I'm like this is actually areally excellent idea that
doesn't already exist.
You know how do I stop thatexcellent idea from being taken
and needs?
You can't.
Exactly yeah exactly what iswhat do you think?
(09:47):
What the other?
So education, obviously for you, and I can't wait to.
I want to hear more about theottomans institute.
Um, before we get to that, uh,what is another area and
industry that you think isreally going to be dramatically
transformed by ai taking off?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think it's health care or medicine.
Health care, uh, you, theamount of data in AI can digest
and analyze and then look at andpatterns in such a short time.
No human will ever be able todo that.
So I think it can reallysupport again, not replace the
doctor, but support in diagnosisof diseases, predicting,
(10:20):
looking, putting lots of data init and see what is going to
happen, what could potentiallybe.
You know the areas that thispatient may go happen, what
could potentially be.
You know the areas that thispatient may go into.
What sort of treatment plansshould we do based on previous
data, what has worked, whathasn't worked, so that you can
really give a personalized,tailored support plan or
treatment plan for theparticular patients?
I think that's an area where itcan just really help not just
(10:42):
the patient but also the doctors, because they have to make
these decisions and they're verytough decisions to make Looking
at a scan or a photo of aparticular area of the body and
then having to make a decisionthat can mean life or death,
whilst with the support of theAI, they have all that data that
they can now look at in afraction of a second, and
beforehand it would have takenthem weeks to analyse that data,
(11:03):
so to speak, by themselves orconsult with colleagues in other
fields.
So I think that is an areawhere it can really support also
society sort of more in general.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, I love that it really democratizes home health
care and also, when it gets tomore serious levels, the
technology.
You know it's amazing.
It's amazing what's alreadygoing on and, as a futurist I
can, I'm seeing what's comingtwo, three years down the line
and I'm like, oh my God, thisworld's not going to look
anything the same in five years.
(11:31):
It's so exciting.
Um, tell me about theOtterman's Institute, because I
know that our listeners would befascinated to hear about how
you're utilizing it and what itmeans for education.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, so, as I mentioned, we build AI teachers
that teach humans in corporatesand higher education
institutions, and I think onething to already note here,
before I give a bit more details, is that we're not here to
replace the human teacher, sowe're not here to take anybody's
job away is that we're not hereto replace the human teacher,
so we're not here to takeanybody's job away.
I think that's really crucialto note, because sometimes
people think, oh my God, you'regoing to take my job away or the
teacher's job.
(12:05):
That's such an awful thing todo.
Not at all.
It's actually the contrary.
We're here to support, let'ssay, about education, if you're
thinking about the highereducation sector, we're here to
support the teachers, teacherswith the students learning
outside the classroom.
So, to give you like an example, so let's say, today you gave a
session of a particular topicand you had 30 students in your
(12:25):
classroom.
Great, now you tell them okay,I'll see you guys next week, but
please go and go over thisdocument.
So you give them document oneand two.
Now, next week, they're allcoming back and the first thing
you're gonna ask hey, tell me,raise your hand who has read
document one and two?
And there may be a few handssort of slowly going up, that's
it.
You know I've read it, but alot of students they are well,
(12:47):
they don't want to say theymight say I've read it but they
haven't, because they don't wantto admit they didn't do the
homework, or they are afraid toraise their hand because they
questions no way, because Idon't really know the answers.
So you actually are not reallysure.
And then when you go throughyour workshop or your seminar
with these 30 students on thosetwo documents only, then you
sort of find out hey, I don'tknow.
(13:08):
John seems to know everything.
Polly doesn't seem to know muchabout this concept.
Maria it's a bit here and there.
Cynthia great.
She actually needs a moredifficult paper because this was
too easy for her.
And whilst you're going throughthat let's say it's two hours
you only are then able tosupport them.
But how much can you do in twohours?
Right, you're only one of youand you're trying to help them
all at the same time.
(13:29):
So what you can do now insteadwith our AI teacher is you'd
still do your lecture.
You say see you next week.
But now you say go throughthese two documents with the AI
teacher.
So you would upload thosedocuments and, as I mentioned,
they stay with you.
It's your IP.
Our AI synthesizes thatinformation and, let's say,
(13:49):
breaks it down in, let's say,subsections, and also, after
each subsection, the AI teacherwill quiz the students using, I
don't know multiple choicequestions, open questions.
I mean you are in control,you're the teacher, you decide
what sort of activities you wantyour students to do and then
the students go on theirindividual devices through these
lessons at their own pace, intheir own time.
So you know, you might want todo it Friday afternoon, I may
(14:09):
want to do it Sunday evening.
It's up to me because you knowthat's 24-7 accessible.
But whilst the teacher is goingthrough the content and
explaining these subsections tome, I may not understand
something.
So I can raise my hand, as wenowadays all have been
accustomed to on Teams and Zoomor other platforms, and I can
ask a question as a student.
So I might say, hey, I didn'tget that, can you explain this
(14:30):
again or can you clarify this?
Or, you know, I can clarify anydoubts I may have.
So the student has a verypersonalized, tailored
experience to go through thesedocuments before they come to
the physical classroom with theteacher where they go, do
activities or go further withthe content.
But you, as the teacher, alsoget lots of data, so you get to
find out who did it, how longdid it take?
(14:54):
Did they answer these questionsof the AI well, how well did
they take part in theseactivities?
But also, ah, john asked thesequestions to the AI, paldi asked
these questions, maria askedthose.
There seemed to be a clearmisunderstanding of this concept
.
I need to go and discuss thisin class with them so, again,
you also learn.
You almost see what they'rethinking, right.
What is it that they are notunderstanding?
(15:15):
Is there maybe a fundamentalgap in the type of content you
may be given that lecture thatactually no one really
understood and that only becomesclear now?
So you can then also use thatdata to you know, give further
personalized support, either inthe classroom or with more
sessions afterwards.
So it's a win-win for both thestudents and the teachers.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Very much so that's so exciting.
You know, I'm a collegeprofessor, so I'm loving, loving
, I'm eating it up, I'm like, oh, I love that.
Does it measure?
Is it is it?
Does it measure behavior Ithink it's probably the word I'm
looking for or intent, so like,um, when somebody gets
struggles or pauses, that kindof thing, is there going to be
(15:54):
that kind of data, so that, like, where somebody got frustrated,
if you will, is that where it'sheaded?
Like, imagine biofeedback,being able to tell the teacher,
if that would even be allowed Isthat kind of the direction that
that's headed in, you think?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I would say, yeah, it could do, indeed, if it's
allowed, I think that would bethe first thing one would have
to look at.
Yeah, yeah, but at the momentthe student can either type or
they can use the mic.
So a lot of it for us is voicefirst, because a lot of us tend
to type in.
You know, we use voice a lot,even when we're sending messages
to one another, we often drop avoice note.
So a lot of people, especiallythe younger generations, really
(16:30):
have a custom to that.
So we really drive the voicefirst element.
At the moment, we're justshowing that later on to the
teacher as a transcript.
This is what the students wereasking, not necessarily to the
teacher as a transcript.
Right, this was the things thestudents was asking, not
necessarily.
Yet analyzing how they weresaying that, you know, was there
any particular emotion behindthat?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
That is a bit tricky as well in terms of the analysis
.
I was just curious because Iknow I've had that experience
with some things that I'mescaping me right now, that
experience where I was like howdid you know that?
So interesting.
I love this topic.
I think that the world has hada lot of issues come up and this
is the book I'm finishing rightnow.
(17:09):
A New American Dream talks aboutthat.
You know, kind of like thecorporate greed is sort of
backed us against the wall and alot of countries are struggling
.
You know births are down likewe're going through a real
transformation and I think thisis such an incredible time to be
alive, to leverage technologyto deal with so many issues.
And in our students, you know,there's so much smarter and I
(17:32):
love that you brought that up inthe beginning.
You're talking about howeducation has remained, you know
, very dated, if you will, andand it hasn't evolved um at near
the space, the pace that thechildren's experience, life
experience, has evolved.
You know they're, they're like,like somebody said to me, I
don't understand why they're sostressed.
I'm like, do you realize thatfrom the time they were born
(17:53):
they were had a phone in theirhand.
So they've been like almostgodlike in some ways, and and
children at the same time, andwe've never looked at that or
addressed the, the real impactof that.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
So, um, that's an interesting topic as well.
Yeah, yeah, like the fact thatyou know when, when people are
born nowadays, they tend to havea phone at a very young age, or
at least use their parentsphone or devices if they, you
know, don't get their own yet.
And that's quite an interestingdebate as such as to how much
should we allow children.
And there has just been arecent new paper came out last
(18:27):
week in the UK whatgovernment-wise they want to
push schools to really reducethe amount of phone usage or
smart device uses in schools.
This is obviously thinking moreabout primary, secondary
education, higher education.
They're adults so they can maketheir own decisions.
But I think that is a veryinteresting debate because one
(18:49):
says, you know, the one hand isoh too much screen time cannot
be good for well-being.
You know, especially when youpeople are on social media and
scrolling through that andseeing lots of all sorts of
things, they can get overwhelmed.
As you said, there's lots of,there's so much information
flying at us every other minute.
Especially when you scrollthrough social media, there
could be things that make themanxious or upset, depressed.
There is just so much, there'sa lot of overload, so their
(19:11):
well-being may be affected.
On the other hand, they willneed to use technology, whether
we're talking about AI or not,but technology is so much part
of our lives nowadays, right, Ithink a lot of people.
We don't even use the bank cardsanymore.
No.
How do you pay in a supermarket?
You swipe your phone in thatreader, right.
How do you go on the bus?
You swipe the phone.
How do you get a taxi?
(19:31):
You order it online.
You don't call someone anymore.
Everything is online.
Everything is digital.
The way we communicate, the waywe talk to people, everything
is digital.
The way we communicate, the waywe talk to people, everything
is digital and everything usestechnology.
So, young children.
I think it's important that, orat least children in general
there needs to be the balance ofusing the technology and
teaching them from a very youngage.
What are the boundaries ofusing technology?
(19:53):
What should you use it for,what you should not, where you
should keep an eye Cybersecurity things, websites and
things.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Young people, students and at all you know
certain topics, trauma inducingcontent, of course, yeah, but
just saying, no, let's not useit at all.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It imagine how that looks like if they then go to
school yeah, and if never usethe technology, that's not
helping them.
It's the same as we, if youknow, when I went to university,
to school, said, okay, you needto keep using only the
calculator, you're not allowedto use microsoft excel.
And then I would go and try andget a job.
You know they would say, okay,show me your data analysis
skills in excel.
I'm like, oh, what is excel?
(20:30):
I have no idea what you'retalking about.
You know that would not be goodfor my job prospect prospects
later on.
So I think it's the same withtechnology as well as with AI
tools.
We need to teach the youngergenerations well, also the
current generations, but ifwe're thinking about the future,
you know we need to teach them.
What are these AI tools, howshould you use them, what can
you use them for, what youshould not use them for, and
(20:51):
teach them to be responsiblewith these things, because AI is
here to stay, whether you likeit or not.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, I agree, and I think I think this, that sort of
attitude of no none, it's likewell, I hate to tell you this,
but we need to look at ourchildren as cyborgs, which
sounds extreme, but but it istrue.
When you realize thateverything they're going to do
is going to involve theirengagement, whether it's in
their body or or in their hand,it's not a not a whole lot of
(21:21):
difference.
Um, and the things that nobodytalks about is?
They talk about screen time,but it's not just about screen
time.
It's about the maturity to beable to handle the burden of the
world's knowledge at such ayoung age and having access to
that and what that does to theirminds.
People are like I don'tunderstand why mental health
issues have increased sodramatically with younger
generations, and it's like whatdo you understand what they're
(21:43):
exposed to from infancy and theburden of all of that knowledge
at too young of an age, withoutthe emotional and mental
maturity nor the practices thatallow people to stay in a
healthy emotional and mentalspace?
It's like we're handing themthe technology, but not the
technology, the innerengineering, if you will, to
quote Sadhguru, to keep thebalance that's required to see
(22:07):
things for what they are and toexist in a life that's actually
present in the now and not allonline.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
important thing that we're not addressing is like is
teaching the kids what real lifeis, while simultaneously
teaching them how to handletechnology and how to leverage
it, but also put it where itbelongs, when they need to
definitely, and I think, as yousaid, there is so much content
out there, yet we still have aglobal skills and literacy gap
(22:35):
which is very big, and it's notreally strong recently, so that
that gap is still really muchthere.
So, if content would solve thisproblem because everybody say,
well, all the content is outthere, they can access it well,
clearly, you know the access tocontent is not going to solve
the problem, so hence, that'sone of the reasons why we
believe that, when you'rethinking about learning, there's
content definitely, thatdefinitely plays but there is
(22:58):
also the teacher, and thatteacher element is what you make
understand what content to lookat and what content to use,
what not to use, becauseotherwise, youtube, free
distribution of books, all ofthose things would have solved
all these problems.
Well, they're clearly notsolved.
So what is the missing piecethen?
Well, it's the teacher.
There is a shortage of we needanother teacher 44 million new
(23:20):
teachers by 2030, a recentreport from UNESCO to just get
or to just meet universal basiceducation.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Wow, you just gave me chill bumps because that's.
That's one job where people arerunning from it because we
won't take care of them.
Yep, the way they deserve to betaken care of we're not seeing.
The role of a teacher isimportant, primarily because it
was.
It was an inhabited role,inhabited by females, you know.
That's the origin of that,because we devalue the feminine
(23:50):
to keep her in her place.
That's just what thepatriarchal society built.
That in the same thing, like inamerica.
Child care and I hate to getoff topic here, but it does
relate back to why teachers areleaving because they looked at
the job as almost a feminine job, so it's of less value.
Without understanding that,it's like we're creating the
future of our world anddevaluing the very people who
(24:10):
have one of the most essentialroles in that.
And since the parents are gonemost of the time, the teacher
really is important and beingable to provide them with tools
like otterman's institute, umhuge deal.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I think that starts also from that younger age.
It's not just oh, now you go touniversity, so you need that
other support, or you go to afurther college, it doesn't
really matter.
It starts from that young agebecause, you rightfully said,
parents cannot always be there.
They may have to have the jobright.
They need to make sure there isenough they meet their primary
needs.
There is a house, there is ahouse, there is everything.
(24:45):
They might also not have theknowledge to support their child
when they come from school withparticular questions.
You know they might not know,that might not be their area,
they might not know anythingabout it, so they don't know how
to support.
So, again using.
So one of the use cases of alsohaving our own language model
is that it can be plugged intoother edtech tools.
It can be plugged into otheredtech tools.
So one of the things we did iswe used our AI model and plugged
(25:07):
it into a Unity game calledTeddy AI, which is a teddy bear
that is talking to the children,primarily focused for four to
seven years old, but it's alsothere to give, almost like that
buddy right, A study buddy tothe children.
They can play games, of course,and have fun, but it's an
educational app but it's AIdriven.
But now, as the parent, youmight think, okay, my kid is
(25:28):
again playing a game or watchingcartoons.
I really want to know whatthey're doing when they're on
these devices.
And one of the things the parentcan do with Teddy and still be
involved in that learningjourney, even if they have no
clue about what they're learningin school in history or
geography or science, they canask Teddy.
(25:49):
Teddy, next time you talk to mychild you know, please I don't
know talk about the capitals ofthe world or multiplication of
two, or I know you may know whatyour child is not that good at.
You've got a report from theschool so you can ask or prompt
right technically, you're promptengineering, but you're
prompting Teddy.
You know to do that with yourchild and you then get feedback
as the parent.
Well, actually, you know yourchild did this right, did this
wrong, and you can thenobviously use that maybe in your
vocabulary with the child ornext time you talk to the
(26:11):
teacher.
So, again, as a parent, you canget involved with the use of
technology and how your child,especially those on a young age,
are using these technologiesand what they're learning from
it.
So you know it doesn't alwayshave to be a bad thing and you
still can be part of thatjourney.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I love that you gamified it with the teddy and
also, I love the idea thatparents get almost like a it's
almost like a report card, yeahon where they're at, which
allows them to have conversationwith their child.
That sounds like it isn't justdoesn't just sound, it puts them
in in their educationalprogress in a way that the child
feels like their parents areinvolved in it, where, I think,
(26:48):
a lot of kids, because theirparents are either busy or they
don't know how to relate to thecontent.
It's helping translate it.
Yeah, that's incredible.
I love that.
Oh, it's an exciting time to bealive, um, so, so before, if
our, if our, uh listeners wantedto learn more about, um, the
work that you do, where wouldthey go?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
they can follow us on almost all the social media
channels where, if you lookottomans institute on linkedin,
that's your preferred platform.
We are on x?
Um oiedu.
We are on instagram.
We are on our website if youjust oiedIEDUcouk or, I'm sure
you will post all the thingsunderneath the post with the
relevant hyperlinks.
That makes it even easier.
(27:31):
Just click on it.
Or you can send me an email oninfo at OIEDUcouk.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I love that.
Well, polly, thank you so muchand congratulations on all the
work for the Otterman'sInstitute.
Well, polly, thank you so muchand congratulations on all the
work for the Otterman'sInstitute.
It's incredible.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's so important and Ithink when people hear about AI
these days, they so often getbought into the fear and what
it's going to do.
That's wrong and I think we'resmart enough to handle that, and
(27:59):
it's nice to have an episodewhere we're focusing and talking
so much about the beautifulthings that are coming with AI.
So congratulations to you.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Thank you so much and thank you so much for having me
.
I hope this will lead to aseries of positive talks about
AI and not only the scary partsthat people may be facing, but
they can see another side of AIthat they may have not seen yet.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh well, gosh, thank you somuch, you guys, for listening
today.
I hope you enjoyed that episodeon artificial intelligence.
If you're not alreadysubscribed, what are you
thinking?
You know intelligent listening,so please subscribe to Citizen
Journalist.
If you're not familiar with mywork, oh gosh, I've got good
(28:42):
news.
I should say my new book, a NewAmerican Dream, hit number one,
which I'm really excited about,and so that makes two number
ones, which makes me very proud.
My mother must be thrilled.
So please go check out my booksat shamanicistcom.
And if you want to learn aboutSoulTech, please visit
soultechfoundationorg to learnabout the work that we're doing
(29:06):
there.
And thank you so much forhonoring us with your time and
energy.
And, pauldi, you go be a badass.
Honestly, I'm so impressed.
Thanks again for coming on theshow.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Bye-bye, bye, you guys.
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