Unmasking Narcissism Part 1: Navigating and Rising Above Toxic Relationships with Jennifer Passavant
December 13, 2024 • 63 mins
Enjoy a pickup of Shaman Isis's MOST STREAMED EPISODE with guest Jennifer Passavant
Have you ever found yourself caught in the destructive web of a narcissist? You're not alone, and this episode is for you. Join me and my special guest, intuitive spiritual life coach Jennifer Passavant, as we strip narcissism down to its bones, exploring superiority, entitlement, and the manipulative tactics narcissists use to control and drain you emotionally. Sharing insights from our own experiences, we offer an unfiltered view of the signs to watch out for and how an encounter with a narcissist can turn from charming to exhausting in a blink of an eye.
As we delve deeper, we examine the complex dynamics of narcissistic-impact relationships, showcasing the importance of setting healthy boundaries and escaping toxic situations. We have an in-depth discussion about the difficult journey of trying to heal or change a narcissist, emphasizing the need to break free and regain control. Jennifer and I also shed light on the dark corners of emotional manipulation, guiding you on how to be a resilient sovereign being amidst the chaos.
But, we don't stop there. We redirect the spotlight towards our current educational system, scrutinizing its role in nurturing self-love, self-care, and our ability to be sovereign beings. We discuss the jarring lack of empathy in relationships with narcissists, the difficulty in instilling empathy in them, and the importance of recognizing signs of narcissism in ourselves and others.
Spiritual guru, two-time #1 best-selling author, and higher consciousness advocate Shaman Isis (aka Cynthia L. Elliott) is on a mission to turn the tide of the mental and spiritual health crisis with mindfulness practices, incredible events, powerful content, and motivational storytelling that inspire your heroes journey! Learn more about her books, courses, speaking engagements, book signings, and appearances at ShamanIsis.com.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
Ready for a life transformation? Ready to bring your dreams to life? Then you will want Glowup With Shaman Isis: The Collection of inspiring books and courses filled with life lessons and practices that raise your vibration and consciousness.
GlowUp with Shaman Isis: An Edgy Podcast for Transformation and Higher Consciousness
Are you captivated by inspiring personal stories, hero’s journeys, and reflections on spirituality's place in modern life? Tune in to GlowUp with Shaman Isis, the bold and uplifting podcast by spiritual rockstar, 2x #1 best-selling author, and veteran podcaster Cynthia L. Elliott—aka Shaman Isis.
Discover more at ShamanIsis.com or SoulTechFoundation.org.
Follow her on social media at:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi and welcome to Intention with Shaman Isis.
I'm your host and today we aregoing to be talking about one of
my favorite topics how to spota narcissist.
And I have a special guest withme today, which makes me super
excited.
Jennifer, do you want tointroduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'd be happy to, and thank you so much for having me
on.
My name is Jennifer Passivant.
I am an intuitive spirituallife coach, energy healing
practitioner and channeler ofdivine beings, among other
litany of things.
That's kind of the meat andtaters of what I do.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I love it, I love your energy.
You just do absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Likewise, likewise.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'll give you guys a little backdrop.
Jennifer and I are both on theWisdom App and we had a talk
yesterday that so many peopleresponded to.
They really did.
I could really sense the energy.
People loved our collectiveenergy and we talked about this
very topic and the energy was sogreat.
I thought, my goodness, why nothave an episode just about
(01:01):
narcissists and have Jennifer onto talk about it?
So thank you very much.
Are you ready to talk about thesigns of narcissism and share
some of your experience andperspective?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, I love this topic.
Yes, go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Awesome.
Okay, so the number one, we'lltalk.
We'll get the number one out ofthe way.
I think it's the one that mostpeople are actually very aware
of if they suspect that theymight be with a narcissist, and
that is a sense of superiorityand entitlement.
Do you want to give me yourtake on how someone can sense
that and someone that they'rewith?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely the first way, or at least to me
, the most prominent way wherethat superiority comes in is
they try to invalidate you ortry to point out maybe your
flaws in order to come off asbeing to convince you that you
are inferior, so that they canfeel and also can convince you
(01:53):
of their superiority.
That's kind of the main one.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Do you think that's one of the reasons why and I've
found this with the narcissistthat I've seen in my practice,
in my business and in mypersonal life that's one of the
reasons why they like detail?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh yes, they want to really get to know you and
codependence, like we weretalking about yesterday.
They present similarly but theyhave differences but they can
feel and present very similarly.
They all like to know specificsabout you so that they can use
them against you and they'lltwist them around and try to
make things something thatthey're not.
(02:29):
They'll put words in your mouthand all kinds of stuff just to
try to start to emotionallymanipulate you.
And if you're sensitive to that, if you're how should I say
this?
If you are an easy victim forthem because you care a lot
about how others perceive you orwhat they think of you, or you
want that validation, that'swhat they use to hook you
because they then make you crave.
(02:50):
They want to try to say this.
They put you in an intentionalposition to try to make you
convince them otherwise.
Does that make?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
sense.
No, that makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Victims will find themselves arguing with them,
trying to convince them thatthey're not the person that the
narcissist or codependent isaccusing them of being.
So they get kind of those inthis like circular argument
thing.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That's fascinating, you know.
I know, in my experience withthis, I found that the reason
why they have this sort ofsuperiority and entitlement
complex and it really surprisedme when this came to me
intuitively one day.
I just was like, oh my God,this is because they have no
self-confidence.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's their wound and it allcomes from how they were treated
as a child.
Usually there was a narcissist,that was a parent that made
them feel awful about themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, that's so interesting.
Do you have any more examplesof that sort of entitlement or
superiority that you might sensefrom someone in your life?
That's a narcissist.
A good sign.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think that's kind of the general meat and taters
of it only because that samesign can present in various ways
.
Just so long as people can.
How should I say this?
Be aware of when someone istalking very highly of
themselves but then in turnfinding flaws in you?
(04:20):
Red flag, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yes.
Red flag, you know.
That brings me to the secondsign that I've seen.
This is one that really, reallystands out to me when I think
of memories of people that I'vehad to deal with from a work
situation or in a personal life,or with clients who are dealing
with someone in their life.
That's a narcissist.
Or as we were talking aboutyesterday if you're watching
(04:44):
this in work and business youmay have a client that's a
narcissist, which is a reallysticky situation.
If you work in any kind ofhealing practice and that is
intention-seeking and validationthat can be so exhausting.
If you're in a relationshipwith someone that exhausts you
all the time and they constantlyneed affirmation about their
(05:07):
specialness, that can be a realred flag that they're a
narcissist.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Absolutely, and codependents do exactly the same
thing.
And that's when you start toalso.
So not only so.
To back up a little bit, to me,the first sign you encounter
like if you're trying to figureout if someone new in your life
is a narcissist the first thingyou see is they start
hyper-complementing you to thepoint where it's sickeningly
sweet, right Like we weretalking about yesterday below
(05:33):
smoke, right up your rear endand to the end degree.
That is the first thing you'llsee, because that's how they
hook you, because they're hopingthat you are lacking that
validation as well and that howshould I say this that
validation, reinforcement to you.
Then you'll stick around formore.
(05:53):
And so once they've got youhooked and this person's
complimenting me where for meit's such a degree that it's
obviously fake and it makes mesick, but some people really
love that and they will use thatthen as a way to hook you.
That's the first sign.
Then later, after your hook,then you see the superiority and
(06:16):
the insults and stuff.
So to then catch up to where wejust were, we were talking
about.
Can you repeat the questionbecause I got a lot?
I just want to backtrack topoint out the smoke, because
that's an important one.
Oh, yes, the intention.
Yeah, thank you.
So, yeah, they will absolutelydo attention-sinking and
(06:39):
validation, and they put that inwith their superiority because
they want you to go.
How should I say this, asthey're talking about how
amazing they are?
They're looking for thevalidation oh, that's great, oh,
you're spectacular.
(07:00):
They're looking for you to tellwonderful things about what
they're already telling you,definitely seeking validation
and, at the same time, prove toyou which is really them, trying
to convince themselves thatthey are superior to you and you
are inferior.
(07:20):
So it's like a twofer.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I like to point that out.
If you're trying to figure outif you're with the narcissist,
that first sign is that somebodywho compliments you a lot.
Now I will say that I can alwaystell when someone has actually
escaped a narcissist, becausenot only am I from the South,
I'm an empath and I'm a flightperson and I've been taught,
when I meet people, to findsomething about them that I
(07:43):
genuinely find compliment,something that I can compliment
or tell them I think isinteresting or whatever.
And because I do that naturallywith people, I can see the
people who are still healingfrom a bad relationship, because
they're like why are youcomplimenting me?
And I'm like, oh breathe, Iactually genuinely meant that
(08:05):
because I won't tell somebodysomething.
First of all, they know, evenif they don't know it on the
surface, deep down they knowwhether somebody is genuine,
whether they're saying or not.
It really takes me backsometimes when I see that kind
of fear thing from people.
But that's because they've beenin that relationship with the
narcissist who puffs them up somuch in the beginning only to go
(08:25):
pop and get a little kick outof going pop Every time the
person starts to get just alittle too high.
I was in a really bad long-termrelationship with someone who
was a classic case of a very,very serious narcissist abusive
narcissist who loved everythingabout me, loved my career, loved
(08:46):
the fact that I could besuccessful in life, because they
wanted to use that for theirown storytelling purposes.
But the minute that theythought I might be getting too
high on myself or think that Imight actually be talented, the
more pain they were in in lifeor in a bad place, the more
vicious that behavior was.
(09:08):
Yes, and seeing it, I was likewhoa, how do you heal someone
with that?
And you know what you don't.
They heal themselves.
Exactly All the things they didis about narcissists.
There's a big trend going on,kind of like an understanding,
an reckoning in America inparticular, with the
narcissistic personality.
(09:28):
It's a top topic.
It's things people are talkingabout.
A lot of people are starting torecognize it.
They're seeing that it's acertain segment of the
population.
But I believe wholeheartedlythat narcissism is what's not
only not helped by our societyand our superficialness, but I
believe it is the duality of allhuman beings that we are all
capable of being an empath andof being a narcissist.
(09:51):
And people who are living inthe narcissistic personality are
living in the fear and the painand the impact is that opposite
end of the spectrum and to behealthy you really need to be
somewhere in between, in thelight and in self-love.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Agreed and I would.
I'm going to expand on what yousaid, because it's so perfect,
because they're in a weird sortof way they are both polar
opposites.
But the wounded empath isbecause there's a difference
between an like a healed empathand a wounded empath.
Right, yes, absolutely so.
Wounded empath is how shall Isay this?
(10:27):
They're almost shades of thesame thing because they both
have that same lack ofvalidation wound.
But where the narcissist isfeeling that wound by, how shall
I say?
Trying to coax it, trying tocoax that validation from others
while at the same time feelingpowerful by using emotional
(10:50):
manipulation and control to makesomeone feel less than that,
that, how shall I say this?
That degree of invalidation andpower and superiority is where
they get their jollies.
It's where they get that senseof validation and food.
Where the wounded empath, theirvictim, just wants to be loved
(11:12):
and seen and and wanted andwhatever, not to say the
narcissist doesn't.
But they go about it in atotally different way, in a
vampiric way.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Vampiric way, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And that's that's why they they always attract each
other, because they are shadesof the other.
It's just they provide howshould I say this a very
challenging opportunity forhealing and soul growth.
But it's probably one of themost challenging dynamics to be
in but off.
More often than not, thenarcissist is unable to see
(11:48):
themselves for what they are notfor what they are, but what
they're doing.
They're unwilling to admit thewound and how they're inflicting
it on others.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh, and I think a lot of them are having a ball.
Oh, yes, absolutely, they'reall doing it, because then they
get off on seeing their effecton other people.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yes, they're very heavily reinforced by their
behavior, which is why theythey're unwilling to look any
deeper.
They just keep doing it becauseit feels good.
Where is that wounded empath,the victim?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
It was a red flag line.
I read this history doesanybody ever send a sentence
that made you go before?
And it was, and this was in thelong-term relationship that I
had had.
That's what they said.
I don't want to go to atherapist because they're just
going to try to make everythingmy fault.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Someone doesn't want to take responsibility for his
or her, why?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I was like do you realize how obvious you just
made yourself?
I was like wow, really, really.
And that was the moment that Iknew there is no fix in this
situation.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
No, and that's why it's so common with narcissists,
and this is not as true withcodependence, but it's most
potential of narcissists.
They're always blaming otherpeople, their victims, anybody
else but them, and so that's areal sense of projection.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Oh, it really is.
No, that's really well said.
So that brings me to.
That's interesting that we'retalking about this, because it
brings me to the third time thatI see so often, in that we
touched on this yesterday, andthat is that one of the signs of
a narcissist is that they'reperfectionists and they're quite
proud of being perfectionistsbecause they don't actually
understand where perfectionismstems from.
(13:38):
My understanding from 35 yearsof dealing with narcissism is
that the perfectionism actuallystems from the fear of being
seen and is less than or notperfect, or the fear of being
seen as normal.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You bet, because one of their parents made them feel
less than and made them feelimperfect, and yet demanded
perfection, and so they got usedto striving for that, and that
just molded who they are, and sofor the listener, I want to
make it very clear that we'renot bashing narcissists here.
We recognize very completelythat these are very wounded
(14:19):
people.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
They're the most wounded today, willing to suck
the soul of another human being.
Actually, when you were sayingthat about the, where's the
vampiric attitude?
When you think about movies andbooks, about that whole
relationship, it is actuallyvery symbolic of a
narcissist-impact relationshipwhere the you know here, come,
(14:42):
take some you know, fulfill yoursoul and then go get another
victim.
It really is like that.
I completely lost my train ofthought, but that's OK, so let's
we'll touch on this reallyquick.
Yeah, what they were sayingnarcissists are victims, just
like anybody else that's wounded.
And I think the whole point inhaving a show where we talk
(15:03):
about the signs of a narcissistis, hey, if you're being abused
in this relationship and youneed to know why, why?
Because a lot of people can'tmake a decision to leave a
situation or change a situationor try to help that situation
unless they have a label tostick on it.
I get it we drink that way bythe medical community, by media.
So you know, those signs arevery helpful.
(15:27):
It's superiority andentitlement complex, like they
have, because they have no selfconfidence deep down, and you'll
know that if you've been withthem long enough.
They have attention seekingbehavior.
And three, they have aperfectionism which stems from
anybody finding out that they'renot actually perfect.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, absolutely, and I would add to that and this is
I'm speaking to those who arecurrently in relationships with
a narcissist I understand thethe very honorable intention to
try to heal them and to try toconvince them to see you in the
light that you would like to beseen, and to try to change them,
(16:11):
because you want to receive thelevel of validation that you
got at the beginning of therelationship.
And I'm here to tell you youcannot heal them and you cannot
convince them, and you cannotchange them, so if you are
unhappy in that relationship, ifyou were unhappy in that
situation, the best bet is toleave.
(16:31):
So, like I was saying earlier,we're not here bashing
narcissists.
We recognize that they arewounded.
We can have compassion for themas healers, especially, we can
acknowledge what their woundsand challenges are.
We don't have to hate them, wedon't have to see them as evil,
and we don't have to see them asthe enemy.
What we can do, though, is sethealthy boundaries, and that's
really what we're talking abouthere.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, that I think that's what we're saying is I
think we're giving people thesigns of really like how to have
a spot it, so that you can thenfigure out how to deal with it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's interesting because somebody a year ago,
when I first started down thisroad, started doing my podcast
and really tried to encourage meto talk about narcissism more
and I was really against it.
But I also didn't realize I wasstill settling in some aspects
of my new self.
They really wanted me to and Irealized recently it's because
(17:25):
I'm dealing with narcissists isgoing to be part of my practice
and it's something I would haveever.
I mean, if you'd asked me, evenfour months ago, I'd been like
no, no, no, no, I will not betaking on any narcissists.
No, but I will actually behelping narcissists.
I will be helping them helpthemselves.
Yeah, that's what we do.
(17:45):
But yes, so another one, andyou mentioned it in there.
Another sign about what aperson that you're with is a
narcissist is the control andmanipulation.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yes, this is.
I really like this part of thetopic, particularly the
manipulation and control,because it's all about not just
control of of behavior, becausethere is that in some
narcissistic relationships it'syou can't go out with your
friends, I'm going to controlyour finances, I'm going to
control who you see, I'm goingto control where you go.
So there is that.
But the meat and taters of itbegins with emotional
(18:20):
manipulation and control.
Where they want to control howyou feel, right?
Namely by they either blowsmoke up your butt to where
you're flying on high clouds offeeling like, oh my God, he
loves me and he thinks I'mbeautiful and he thinks I'm
amazing.
Well, the first thing you haveto look at is why aren't you
(18:41):
seeing yourself this way andfeeling that whole yourself?
Because that's the whole reasonyou're addicted, and it is
legitimately an emotional andpsychological addiction.
You're addicted to thatexternal validation and they
know it.
So that's your drug, their drugis controlling you emotionally,
(19:02):
right?
That's what they're addicted to.
Is that power and control overyou as the victim?
So that's the first thing youhave to ask yourself.
But then, when they startknocking you down, and then so
that you will crave thatvalidation and do whatever it is
they're telling you you need todo, just so you get that
(19:23):
validation back, because that'syour drug that you got to get
that.
That's how they're controllingyou.
So then you have to askyourself as the victim why in
the hell am I letting someoneelse control my behavior, my
thoughts, my feelings, myperceptions?
Be a sovereign being yes, youare and control.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's part of my whole.
I have a whole speech aboutAmerica and the fact that we're
really lost right now and thatwe have to restructure our
systems in this country.
And one of those things, youknow we have to create children
that have mind, body and soulharmony, that understand the
principles.
That's more important inphysics and math.
I don't care.
(20:08):
People who are attracted thatwill find a way to find it.
You know, let's turn outchildren that are whole, who
cares whether or not we cancompete with China about math
problems?
People are like what the youknow?
And people are like that's notwhat schools for.
Well, we're doing isn't working.
No, that's why.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I like the Waldorf school system.
I'm familiar with the schoolsystem from oh my God, look at,
look it up.
Rudolph Steiner started aschool called the Waldorf
schools and they teach all aboutthat.
So you get that, you get themath, you get the science, you
get the reading, but theyincorporate music and dance and
the learning.
They teach about spiritualityand cosmology.
(20:46):
They teach about bio by biodynamic farming, but it's all
done, love it Years.
And so at the same time,they're they're building whole,
whole emotional people, whereasin our schools it's very, it's
very rote learning very just.
Memorize these, these facts andthis air quotes history and
(21:09):
repeat it back and you're good,while at the same time go on
social media and either feellike utter crap because you're
being bullied or you're becomingnarcissistic with a super short
attention span because you'reflipping through frigging TikTok
.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Oh, yes, I have to tell you that's one of my
reasons.
The social media was botheringme because I was like our whole
society is not built.
You had said something earlierabout you, said something that
made me talk about the wholeschool system and the mind, body
, and so, oh, the self love.
We talk about self care a lot,but that whole ability to be a
(21:48):
sovereign being that's the wordyou use yes, see, a sovereign
being to have the self love andthe self esteem to be a self
fulfilling, self actualizedbeing that accepts that were not
perfect.
You know, I think I'm withinthe spiritual community.
There's this so like sort ofideal that people will get to
the place where they buy rightand disappear into a Himmary
(22:11):
rainbow.
But, but I mean we get close.
But in America we have torestructure the system so that
it helps produce people and thisis even within our health care
system for adults that have mind, body and mental, physical,
spiritual and emotional balance.
Yes, we do not address any ofthat.
(22:32):
It's one of the reasons why Iget a brilliant move.
The media gets on top of one ofthe school shootings because
that is all about this.
That is what is wrong with thiscountry.
Yeah, live in shallowness.
We live in immediategratification.
It started in the 80s.
It has progressively gottenworse.
When do you even start right?
All of this relates to the factthat we don't break the yoke
(22:54):
principles in this country.
And anyway, I could get on awhole.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Oh, I know I was going to say, oh, I could get on
transhumanism with this one,but I won't.
I know, yes, I'm thinking thatwill be a topic for another day.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I can see you and I are going to do more episodes
We've got.
I'm sorry, I'll just brag onthis for you.
We've got great chemistry girl.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
We're like sisters from as you can say we're
sisters from other misters.
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I like that.
So, while we're yeah, we'regiving the signs for narcissists
, well, I have three in a rowthat are lack of and I'll just
say them all together, becausethey're kind of need each other
lack of responsibility, lack ofboundaries and lack of empathy.
(23:40):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Lack, lack, lack and and the lack of empathy, I think
, is the most important one, andparticularly for those who are
in a relationship with anarcissist, because there is
that desire to make them beempathetic when they simply
can't.
And I think the victims in therelationship and again, I'm not
(24:03):
trying to paint narcissists asevil people.
They are wounded people and,like it was said yesterday, no
one chooses to be a narcissist.
They're just showing you whattheir wounds are, but that
doesn't mean that their woundingis not harmful to others.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So that's what we're talking about is how they're
wounding is harmful to others.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But anyway, yeah, exactly, I think you're on the
narcissist.
Everybody, thank you, everybodyto some degree is narcissistic.
There's a difference betweenbeing narcissistic and having
narcissistic personalitydisorder Different things so
that's a really good point.
But when you are a victim of anarcissist, you tend to find
(24:45):
yourself trying to, like I wassaying earlier, convince them of
who you are, but then alsotrying to change them, to be
empathetic.
You try to like you don'tunderstand why they don't
operate the way you do, and soyou try to get them to operate
the way you do.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You won't, because they're we're also kind of
industry enforced.
It's somehow our behavior makesus right, yeah, and we have to
get the other person to behavelike us because that means that
they're behaving right.
It's like, well, not quite likethat.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well and it's also like they're not behaving
normally.
How can I get you to behavenormally and be empathetic the
way normal humans are?
You won't, because they're inthe cluster B.
So if any of you studiedpsychology, they're in the
cluster B grouping, which is atype of personality disorder,
and it's under the range of likesociology psychopathy.
(25:40):
There's what's the other one,histrionic borderline
personality disorder?
There's a bunch of them, butthey all lack empathy and they
all have a difficult timefeeling even their own feelings.
So here's you deeply feelingyour feelings, and you can't
understand why this person isnot feeling your feelings, let
(26:02):
alone their own.
That's why.
So you can't change that, sodon't try, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I think that's a really good point.
If you found yourself inconversations where you're
saying any of these things thatwe're saying that you're in a
relationship with the narcissist.
If you have found yourselfsaying why can't they treat me
well?
Why can't they respond normallyyes, they're probably sick.
(26:31):
And unless you want to continueto be in a relationship with
someone who's sick and you'restrong enough to continue to
manage it, then it might be timeto exit.
A lack of empathy, boundariesand responsibility I think lack
of empathy is kind of like Ithink that's where I put them
all together because when youhave no empathy, you lack
boundaries and responsibilityfor anything you do.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
You bet.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yes, and they'll find a way to make it your fault.
Anyway, I've found that in myown situations with the
narcissist is that I would findmyself trying to explain what it
they just didn't understand.
If I actually explained itdifferently, maybe if I tried
this tactic or that tactic andI'll find the words that will
(27:17):
actually make them go oh no, no,it doesn't work.
Stop trying to explain tosomebody who doesn't have any
empathy.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
No, and they do understand.
They're just not.
You know what I mean.
You just don't think theyunderstand.
So that's why.
But yeah, absolutely, they justlack empathy.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
We can either tell ourselves that they don't
understand because the attributeis so frightening.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yes, well, and most people assume they're
communicating with someone whois typical, you know, who is
empathetic and sympathetic andall of those things, and with
someone with that type ofpersonality disorder it's a
whole different ball of wax.
And so you have to until yourecognize how should I say this?
(28:04):
Until you recognize how they'reoperating, you're still gonna
assume you're communicating withsomeone who's mentally typical
you know?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
You will keep saying toyourself that I just have to try
another method or I'll sit downand have a conversation with
them, and it's like it's nevergonna work, because guess what?
What you don't wanna tellyourself.
They are fully aware that theyare hurting you, bingo.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And they're okay with that.
And that's their food.
No, they are okay with it.
That's their whole point.
They get high off of it.
They get high off of it.
That's their drug.
And, like I said earlier,that's their drug where your
drug is the kindness and thevalidation because you didn't
get it and that's your childhoodwound right, you didn't get
that as a yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I, in my situation, I got really frustrated because I
didn't understand.
I think that we touched on thisyesterday.
I kept hearing my stories ofmyself and he didn't even know
half the truths, which, thankGod, I didn't actually tell him
because he just told everybodyand imploded my whole life.
Wow, yeah, and when they'resupposed to.
I was just trying to figure outwhy I was ready, but what he
(29:11):
did know, he was constantlytelling other people I would be
talking to somebody that Ididn't even know and they go oh,
I know.
And I'm like why do you knowsuch personal information about
me?
And I thought it was because hewas admired me so much.
I was just so, I was so cute, Iwas so young, I was like, oh
(29:32):
gosh, he really thinks I'mamazing.
All that and a bag of chips.
He wants to tell everybody.
He was just and, intuitively,something in me was going.
Why does he keep sharing mystories with everybody?
Something off here and I.
But you want to believe whatyou want to believe.
You think people will evolve orchange and this isn't about
(29:54):
maturity.
It goes way beyond that.
It's about self-love and that'sthe thing you have to
understand and if you can havesympathy for somebody that you
almost want to hate which Ithink for a lot of people who
are listening to this if you'rein a relationship with a
narcissist, you either hate them, or you almost want to hate
them, or you love them too much,whatever the type of love that
is, and it's because you don'twant to accept that they
(30:18):
actually get off hurting you.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yes, and I think some of that denial comes also from.
There's a fear, then, of leavingthe relationship, because they
often are afraid and this is.
I work with a lot of victims ofnarcissists and co-dependents,
and many of them are afraid toleave the relationship, even
though they're miserable in it.
(30:41):
So they will make up everyexcuse under the sun to stay,
mostly because not only are theyafraid that they will lose the
tiny little nuggets ofvalidation that they've got into
the relationship for in thefirst place, they're just
waiting to get one of thoselittle nuggets of reinforcement
(31:02):
because they're afraid theywon't get it anywhere else.
They feel so badly aboutthemselves that they fear that
they won't be able to enter intoanother relationship, that they
won't find anybody else.
So it's easier for them to stayin that abusive misery than
face the fear of, in their minds, never finding anyone else who
(31:25):
will ever validate them.
But where they're not, whatthey're failing to see and this
is one of the things, and wejust touched on that a little
bit earlier what they're failingto see is that only they can
fill that hole.
If you keep looking to get thatvalidation hole filled outside
of you, you will always onlyever be disappointed because
(31:46):
you're placing thatresponsibility and that
expectation to heal you outsideof yourself and you just can't
do that.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Which brings us back to that whole.
If you're making excuses at allfor the person that you're with
, regardless of whether they'rea narcissist or not, then you
probably have a self-love issue,self-care issue, and until
you're capable of telling peopleand I was always very good at
saying, stop, get back.
But even I can be tricked by aworld-class narcissist.
(32:15):
For me.
I kept thinking that, and thiswas me thinking this, is that
what was wrong with me?
I kept thinking that I wassmart enough to fix it.
Yes, I can fix this.
I have fixed so many people onthe healer.
I can fix this.
I fix people all the time.
I fix them within minutes,sometimes by reading them,
(32:37):
feeling them and then givingthem what they need.
Do I need to put my hands on?
Do I need to?
What is it?
What magic can I work and youcan't fix that bottomless pit?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Nope it is.
It'll end up sucking you dry.
So if you're finding yourself,if you're exhausted in your
relationship, I think that'sthat you want to need to add to
the list Number 12,.
If you're exhausted in yourrelationship, you're most likely
to be dead If you have.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
if you find yourself having circular conversations
with them, you might be with anarcissist.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh, that's a good one .
I like that.
I gotta add that to the list.
You know what you're not gonnabe like writing a book, oh my.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
God, I know.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So, oh, this is an interesting one that I've added
to my list.
Over time, they see threatseverywhere, yep, which I did not
understand for the longest time.
You know that one really threwme off.
It was like I thought you werea badass you know, and I'm
talking about, I've been aroundenough narcissists in my career,
in my personal life, that Ifeel like a professional.
(33:41):
That's why I know that I'mgonna be helping people either
who are victims of narcissistsor who want to stop being a
narcissist.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yes, which is rare.
So when you do find them, it'slike wow, okay, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
One must be a magnet.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
a magnet Well for you , though, because most
narcissists don't even wannaadmit that they have a problem
or that they are wounded becausethey think so highly of
themselves, or at leastconsciously.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
they think highly of themselves because,
subconsciously, they hatethemselves, they hate themselves
yeah, exactly, they're insecureand they don't want to admit it
that there's a fear there ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yes, so it's amazing that you get narcissists that
want to change.
That's a freaking miracle asfar as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I mean I say I'm going to oh, I thought you were
trying to figure out.
I'm like, hey, that's amazing.
Every night I have alwaysattracted narcissists, do not I?
I mean, I can go to a room with5,000 people and within an hour
I will find myself going.
Oh God, hi, one of you again.
How are you?
Is it blinking?
Yes, I'm a little bit nervousbecause the healer, that healer
(34:47):
vibe that I give off, that makesthem go.
Oh, you know, and I think thathappens with people who are
super impasse or psychic.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yes, I agree because I tend to get them, though I've
had a couple of a few clientsthat were narcissistic.
The majority of the time I getthe victims of narcissism or
codependency, but it's in mysocial media DMs that I get the
narcissists.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
That's interesting.
That makes a lot of senseactually that they just ignore
you.
I think it has a lot to do withthe fact that I've worked in
entertainment fashion most of mycareer and I've worked with a
lot of powerful people, so I'vebeen in rooms with people.
It's a matter of proximity.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Oh sure, sure.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
We like to light bulb .
Hi, Miss Keegan, you're rightover here.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And what's funny too, is how should I say this?
Narcissists tend to think thatthey can manipulate anyone, that
they can find theirnarcissistic food and that's
what it's called as narcissisticfood that they can get their
addiction filled with just aboutanyone.
They usually try to use theopposite sex, though it's easier
(36:01):
for them to manipulate theopposite sex.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I think that life's a bit more.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
It agreed?
Absolutely they do.
And how should I say this?
I think because of thatassumption, they approach us
both, whether it's like you weresaying you walk into a room, or
for me it's in my social mediaDMs, because I don't really go
anywhere or do anythinginteresting, so I don't meet
(36:28):
these types of media.
But then I can tell within thefirst.
I mean it doesn't take long totell it's a narcissist.
At this point we're sowell-schooled when you've been
with narcissists as long as wehave, because my relationship
was six and a half years I don'tknow how long years was, but it
was.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
We've got this.
We've got this long time.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, we got this boo boo.
And so once you and this iswhere I want to also speak to
the victim once you learn towreck, see a narcissist for what
they are, you then start to andyou understand the different
types of manipulation tacticsthat they utilize, you can see
(37:11):
it for what they are.
And then that means that youthen know what they're trying to
get you to think, feel, believeabout either them or yourself,
yes, or if they want you to feelbadly about yourself but good
about them, whatever it is,you'll see what they're trying
to get you to feel, cause it'sall about controlling how you
(37:33):
feel and how you think, and allthat from the get go.
But then you can go ah, okay,he or she is trying to get me to
think or feel this way, allright, so then I can respond
this way, which will deflectthat or negate it.
So once you can recognize it,it'll.
It gives you a lot of controlover the situation, which they
(37:54):
don't like.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
The reality is something that I had to come to
the understanding of is thatonce you understand or realize
that someone is a narcissist,whether a client, a family
member, which is very difficultto deal with, you know, because
you have the right to cut familymembers out.
Yes, you do.
Yep, you have the right to cutanyone out of your life that is
(38:16):
sucking you dry.
Yes, oh, I completely lost mystrength.
I thought with that, oh, I hateit when I do that.
You know, when you're like oh,I see something, good, it's
juicy.
And then I was like bam, justlet me.
Oh, yeah, everything that comesout of their mouth is most
likely manipulated, correct.
That's what I found.
(38:37):
I found myself likeeverything's like okay, okay,
I'm dodging the bullets.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right, bob and weave.
Bob and weave, absolutely Boband weave.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Bob and weave, bob and weave.
So the next one is how theyfeel is all that matters?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Correct and we use the term feeling loosely.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's more about their ego.
You know how much something'saffecting their ego.
That's what they say they'refeeling.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
They're feeling ego.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yes, yeah, so I would encourage anybody.
If you're on the list of signsthey like to split, which is,
they are the good and you arethe bad, do you have any
examples of that kind of thingspotting?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
that kind of thing?
Oh, absolutely Particularlywhen you are how should I say
this?
When you're dating with anarcissist, then they have to
make you the bad guy and you'reat fault for whatever it is
they're experiencing that theydon't like.
Usually, it's because they'renot getting what they want from
(39:51):
you, and that pisses them off.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yes, so then you have to get real stupid shallow
things where.
I'm like are you reallybitching because the grocery
store was out of something?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I think your wife, because the grocery store was
out of something and you'retelling it her for not taking
all eight kids in the car thatwas running out of gas to three
more stores to get you thatthing that you absolutely have
decided is so important.
You're gonna ruin your day andyour whole family's experience
over it.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, and it can't be their fault, and it can't even
be nobody's fault.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, that is really hard, I think, for a lot of
people who are.
If you're in, if you suspectyou're in a narcissist, your
relationship and you're sittingthere going, yeah, if it makes
no sense, because they're upsetabout something that makes no
sense and they wanna blamesomeone, even though it's a
blameless situation and there'sno one you can blame, which I
think is good at.
And we talk about the UnitedStates, but one of my big
(40:52):
problems is that our country isa narcissist.
We need a whole country andeverything is structured.
It's like a one-way narcissist.
Yeah, everybody in this countryis in a sick relationship and
the narcissist is in America.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Our shores.
Most other people are like.
You guys are a hot mess, yep asa country.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Ask any other country .
I can I add to that, though?
Or let me just or I guess Ijust wanna finish what I was
saying about.
You know, usually it's whenthey're in my DMs and they're
expecting me to either fall inover them and that agree to
enter into some sort ofemotional dependency on them,
because that's what they'relooking for.
They want someone who will beemotionally dependent on them
(41:36):
for validation.
And when they're not gettingthe control over me that they
want, that's when they turn uglyand that's when you're the bad
guy, you're the problem and youneed to feel guilty for it,
which also doesn't work, butthey try.
That's where they go next.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, and I think that's something that's worth
mentioning.
You brought something up.
I was just talking about thiswith a friend last night, trying
to explain it's hard for peopleto understand why people do
things in relationships.
But sometimes, if you do notunderstand that somebody's in a
relationship with a narcissist,you will not understand why they
chose certain things, becausethey had to choose them, so
oftentimes they go their ownneck.
(42:16):
So if you're looking to enter arelationship with a narcissist,
I'm not providing you with anexcuse here, because I know that
we'll all find lots of excusesto say an unhealthy relationship
, but you have to be wise.
I made the really stupidmistake of giving someone a
year's notice.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, but I was trying to be fair in a very
unusual situation and I thoughtby doing that, I was giving them
the excuse to go out and getvalidation elsewhere.
Yes, and then let us handlethings like adults.
I was trying to be reasonable.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
That's you being a normal person.
Is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, I was being what I thought was normal and
instead that was an invitationto incinerate my whole life.
Yeah, I mean, just came afterme to the nail what got to
everyone who had ever known meand why do I have this
experience for my lifetime ofpeople wanting to be in my life,
(43:19):
who want to make shit up about?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
me why.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Why?
Why does that happen?
So if you're ever curious aboutme, please ask me.
Because I have a history ofpeople making shit up about me
because they're mad at me fornot wanting to be in a
relationship with them and I'mtalking about everything from
family to well, I think a lot ofus have that and we don't
understand, like why is someonetrying?
to unplug my whole world, but Igave that opportunity by being
(43:44):
honest and thinking that theywere a normal person.
So my advice to people is, ifyou're realizing this and if
this is just confirming what youalready know you want, to make
sure that you do that.
You speak your truth, you standstrong and you do this.
If you're exiting or decidingto exit, do it in a really smart
way that protects your finances, that protects your reputation
as best you can.
(44:05):
But I'll just say for my ownpersonal advice decades of
experience seeing nurses justhelping people get over it and
so on, it's not worth your heartand soul being sucked dry.
No, it's not Even if theyimplode your.
You know it's not worth itbecause the people in your world
are going to judge you overthings they don't know and
(44:25):
believe someone, not the personthemselves.
They're not worth having inyour life anyway.
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Can I add to that?
Wait, can I add to that just alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
And with regard to and this is speaking to the
victim not only prepare yourfinances, because absa
frequently, you have to be ableto find a way to be in all ways
independent and uncontrollable,but then that also includes
emotionally, because you thenhave to really look at your
addiction to their validation.
(45:00):
Because until you are how shouldI say this emotionally
sovereign enough to where youcan give that validation to
yourself, where you understandthat you determine your own
worth and your own value, you dothat.
You have a choice to give thatpower away to others, but that's
(45:20):
not an obligation.
You can fill that hole and thatwound yourself.
You decide that you have valuebecause you're gonna exist,
right.
That's all it takes to havevalue, right.
So when you can learn to let goof the addiction to the
validation because that's reallythe hardest thing to let go of,
is that addiction to thevalidation you have to then be
(45:46):
ready to cut them out entirely.
You have to pick a time, pick aday and get out and block them
in every way you can, becausethey will come after you.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Oh yes, and be prepared, they will most likely
turn to.
They'll either already havesomething lined up, which is
very typical of a narcissist, orthey will turn to someone very
quickly to hurt you, becausethat's how they get off then,
how they make themselves feelbetter.
You wanna leave as safely aspossible and know that you have
(46:20):
to be independent andself-functioning.
I love that.
That's wonderful advice and sowell said.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
So let's run through the list really quick and let me
know if you have any morethoughts on any of these,
because, honestly, I think thisis such a fantastic effort,
though we're gonna need to breakthis up into a couple of
segments.
I think we're gonna get somegood feedback on this.
So the list of signs that youcan look for if you're in a
relationship or if you'reactually.
You know what I'm gonna tellyou not just the people who
(46:48):
might be in a relationship witha narcissist, but if you suspect
that there's something wrongwith you and deep down you're
unhappy, but you may be on thesurface look like everything's
all a bag of chips, but you knowyou might need change in your
life and you're suspect thatyou're a narcissist.
This is a list for you becauseyou know what.
We're all human.
We all have psychologicalissues.
We all have growth that needsto happen.
(47:11):
Self-love is important, nomatter what whether you're on
which end of the relationshipyou are.
So if any of these soundfamiliar, you might wanna seek a
life coach or someone to helpyou deal with the fact that you
might be a narcissist or thefact that you're in a
relationship with a narcissistand that you can live a happy
life and being self-fulfilledand independent, sovereign being
(47:34):
is everything.
You can handle anything in lifeif you love yourself.
So the signs that we'vereviewed today are and, jennifer
, please hop in here if you haveany new thoughts on this
superiority and entitlement,which stems from not having any
confidence deep down, which isvery hard to spot in the
beginning.
Number two is attention-seekingbehavior, validation-seeking,
(47:59):
which is one of the reasons whyyour partner this is what I see
consistently with narcissists isthey happen to have, they need
to have a lot of men or women orI hate to make it about sex, it
doesn't really matter, which issomething I had to realize
growing up.
I'm like why doesn't it matterif it's a man or a woman, it's
just attention.
No matter what Absolutelyattention-seeking behavior,
(48:23):
they'll seek it from anybody.
Number three on the list is thatperfectionism that stems from,
not from being so afraid.
It's being seen as being flawed, because deep down, they
believe they're truly flawed,that they have to do everything
perfectly and they have tomanage you and your life because
you're an extension andreflection of their life.
(48:43):
Yeah, so that perfectionismrolls over to your children, to
you as the partner, to their jobto everything.
They try to control thelanguage, the description of
your life and what everybodythinks around them.
Absolutely Number four control,manipulation.
Like I was just saying, theytry to control and manipulate
everything around them tobecause what other people think
(49:06):
is very, very important.
It's important to all of us,but it's really really overly
important to a narcissist or toyou.
If you're a narcissist, lacks.
They have a lack ofresponsibility, a lack of
boundaries.
So if you're in a relationshipwith somebody and you're like
why do?
they not keep trying to explainthis to them?
Why do they not understand whyI don't want them calling my
(49:26):
friends and trying to getpersonal information about me?
They keep saying and trying tohelp me they have no boundaries.
Because they don't want to haveboundaries, because finding out
about you is how theymanipulate you.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
And a lack of empathy , which I think is what we're
talking about narcissism,empathy or the two sides of the
human psyche, I think inextremes, our ego, and extremes
are-.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
And our wounds and extremes.
They're like the opposite ofthe exact same wound.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I love that, I do, I love that, yeah, they see
threats everywhere.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
There's constantly a potential threat to their,
whatever it is.
How they feel is everything andthat's just wording, because
most people who are narcissisticdon't have necessarily real
feelings like you would actuallysee them.
And if you suspect that yourfeelings aren't actually really
feelings because they're toosuperficial, then you might
(50:25):
actually be a narcissist andmight need to seek help.
Splitting they're good andother people are bad.
Every story they tell they'rethe hero of which is actually
true, and then a fear ofrejection or ridicule, which
actually we didn't live with.
That one was left off the list.
(50:46):
Fear of rejection or ridicule.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Oh, absolutely, yes, and I would also add a fear of
well, this is more with thecodependent, but a fear of
abandonment and a fear of younot needing them.
But, yes, absolutely a fear ofrejection or ridicule and it's
oh God, it's so deeply rootedand that's why they again, they
(51:11):
have to look and feel and makeyou look and feel well.
Publicly you have to look andpresent as perfection, but
behind closed doors they'retearing you down every which way
because of your imperfections.
They use your wounds and yourflaws, which everybody has, but
(51:33):
they use that to emotionallymanipulate you.
But then, when you're out inpublic, y'all better be in a
happy, fricking family, orwhatever the situation is.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yeah, and they're very concerned with what other
people think in that regard.
That's why they have everyonelook a certain way, talk a
certain way, like they'remanaging everything.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yes, exactly, it's very much about how they present
and how other people perceivethem, including their partners
and their children.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
That's actually, yeah , that's so true.
So that is.
I love this information, ifyour assistance suggestions,
before we go and close out ouramazing episode on signs of a
narcissist, what are somerecommendations that you would
make for somebody who and we'llappeal to both, because I think
(52:26):
you pointed out something that'svery important it's very easy
to bash and that's going oneverywhere, right Like bashing
narcissists, and I don't thinkthat's going to help anybody.
So you know, if you're anarcissist or if you're in a
relationship with a narcissistand you're realizing it having
listened to this episode, hereare some options for you and how
(52:47):
to move forward.
Yep, do you have anysuggestions for that?
Speaker 2 (52:52):
I do, and I appreciate you reiterating that.
This is not about bashingpeople who have either severe
narcissistic tendencies or havenarcissistic personhood disorder
, many of whom go undiagnosed,but it's definitely about
recognizing them so that you canput up healthy boundaries.
(53:14):
So that's really why we'rehaving this conversation.
So I know we discussed earlierhaving financial control and
making sure that you're notallowing them to have control
over aspects of your life thatwere something to go south, you
can't get out.
So be very mindful of that andfind ways to regain that if
(53:35):
you've lost it, even if thatmeans like you have to open a
joint account with anotherfamily member and start
scrolling money away withanother family member that's in
their account or whatever it is.
But just definitely find waysto be in control of your
finances and your livingsituation, and I would also then
(53:57):
recommend learning ways to howshould I say this?
Learn all the differentmanipulation techniques so that
you can see it when it happens.
You can go ah, that'sgaslighting, Ah, that's, you
know whatever it is, and thenlearn how to deflect it or
negate it, because then theydon't have power over you,
because most of the time you getthe victim gets so into their
(54:21):
emotional triggers becausethey're now invalidated and they
feel hurt and they're trying tothen, yeah, but blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah and theytry to convince the narcissist
that they're not who they'rebeing told that they are.
They get so into their triggerthat then they're just digging
themselves in the hole becausethey're you're doing exactly
what the narcissist wants you todo.
(54:42):
They want you to feel like shitand they want you to try to
convince them otherwise, so thatthey can then turn around and
convince you how wrong you are.
So when you can see it for whatit is and you know how to
negate it, you don't get intothat cyclical conversation of
trying to get them to changetheir minds.
You just deflect it and negateit, and half the time it's about
(55:04):
calling it for what it is like.
Oh, you're trying to gaslight me.
I get it.
Go ahead, give it a shot.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
You know what I'm going to add to the list.
Do they like to gaslight?
Because they are narcissistsare world class.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
They're pro gaslighters and not to say
that's.
That's probably their topmanipulation tactic, but it's by
no means the only.
So I really recommend peoplelearn the different types of
manipulation tactics and you'llread through the descriptions
and go, oh, holy cow, wow, I'veseen all of these.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Oh, I think you just hit on the next episode that you
and I are going to do together,the manipulation tactics.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yes, okay, I think that's okay.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
I love that idea.
I think it works.
This was I just feel this isgoing to be helpful.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I can, I hope so, I really hope so.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
But, yes, more of your amazing suggestions for
what to do.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I'm aside, honestly aside from.
I mean, I think we touched on alot of the learning learning
the manipulation techniques andthen how to negate them, to
disempower them, but also tohave the financial control, but
then also the emotional control,because they keep you around by
controlling how you feel.
So you have to really learn torecognize that, as you said,
(56:20):
everything they say essentiallyis a way to control how you
think, feel and perceive andbelieve about either you or them
.
So when you recognize that itallows you to keep yourself in
check and become very self-awareof when you are allowing them
to control how you feel aboutyourself and when you can go ooh
, he just said that and I tookit immediately.
(56:43):
Personally, I felt awful aboutit, but that's me giving my
power away.
I just gave him that control.
So I'm going to take that.
I'm not going to let thathappen.
I recognize that that's anintentional behavior on his part
or her part, of whoever it is.
You're dealing with myexperience as a female.
I'm thinking back to my ownexperience.
But once you're very self-awareof that, then you can regain
(57:07):
control and make your own choice, because we all believe it or
not.
We all choose how we think,feel, believe, perceive all of
that.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
Yes, we create our own reality Exactly, and every
thought you have, every word yousay, everything you allow to
pass, everything you put up with, speaks to how you believe
about yourself, which speaks toyour reality.
You create your reality Really,do you?
Guys are so powerful, and Ithink that's one of my and I
know they beat up America a bit,but one of my frustrations for
(57:41):
the powers that they've takenaway by the way we've structured
all of our systems is we'vebeen giving everybody into
standing in line because we wanteveryone to behave the same,
because that's how we controleverybody.
In fact, we're incrediblypowerful beings and we are
capable of creating our ownreality on levels that would
(58:01):
blow our minds 20 years ago, andpeople are finally coming awake
to that, and I think that's anamazing thing.
I think a lot of people arecoming awake to this kind of
thing and about being unhappyand choosing to take control of
their life, so I think a lot ofpeople who are choosing to
listen to this episode are up tobe congratulated, because this
(58:22):
is their assignment You'retrying to take control and
change your life so that you canbe happier.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Absolutely, because you either and for those of you
going, I don't control whensomeone hurts my feelings.
I don't control how I feelabout that.
You do.
But let me be clear there's adifference between a conscious
choice and an unconscious choice.
So you can either be veryself-aware and consciously
choose your response, or you canoperate from your triggered,
(58:54):
subconscious, wounded mind andreact, which means you're
operating out of an old woundthat you've had forever.
It's still a choice, though itmay be an unconscious one.
So the thing is to learn tothen, even if you've already
operated from the unconsciousone, if, once you become
(59:15):
self-aware of it, you can make anew choice.
Speaker 1 (59:18):
Yeah, you can stop something midstream, you don't
have to finish off theconversation from that old Stop
and go.
No, wait, wait, you know what.
We're not going to do this.
I'm not going to behave thisway because no one has the power
to make you feel the way thatyou feel.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
Exactly, unless you allow it, and this is so slight
tangent, but not really so.
When I help people who workwith negative and lower energies
and entities as an energyhealer, one of the prayers that
I teach them is I'm an allpowerful being of divine white
(59:54):
light.
No one and nothing has powerover me, save that which I allow
.
You have no power over me.
I'm a sovereign being of God,and so it's acknowledging that
if you're allowing someone tocontrol you emotionally, it's a
choice you've made.
Consciously or unconsciouslyit's a choice you've made.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
So you can make a new choice.
Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
So so, wow, this has been such a juicy, juicy episode
.
I'm going to have to break it.
It's going to be you guys.
It's going to be like two parts.
So if you didn't hear the firstpart or what up, check, check
my listings and you'll see howmany parts this is.
We've been talking about thesigns of a narcissist and have
had such a blast to never.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
thank you, no, thank you, I love talking with you.
I think we could come up with awhole litany of topics.
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I can never see this is going to take down a life of
its own.
Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
The energy is just incredible in.
You know, life is so short andI really believe that when you
something feels right, you justdo it, you just go.
We're going to have a ball andyou guys are going to totally
benefit.
So you'll hear more about thatlater.
Please check the listings forpart one or part two or part
three I'm not sure how manyparts it's going to be, but
(01:01:14):
you'll see it in the listings.
And, jennifer, thank you somuch.
Have a gorgeous, gorgeous week.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, and justonce again, if anybody wants to
learn more about me, they can goto my website, which is
wwwangelenergyhealingnet, andfrom there they can also access
my social media accounts ifthey're interested in following
me there.
But it's a littleself-promotion.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yeah, no, I'm definitely going to include your
social media here as well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
And you guys, please, please, like, share and comment
on this episode.
We're growing the show.
Our goal is to teachconsciousness and spirituality
healing to as many people aspossible, so please support our
efforts with your own socialmedia platforms.
And check out other episodes ofintention with Shaman Isis by
(01:02:04):
visiting YouTube, spotify,buzzsprout and Apple podcasts.
You'll find it listed in all ofthe major podcast places and
you can please visit my website,shamanisiscom.
I help people heal upon theirlife purpose and get into mind
body and soul harmony, and youcan learn more about that at
shamanisiscom.
Anyway, have a beautiful dayand, jennifer, I'll speak to you
(01:02:26):
soon, absolutely.
Thank you again so much, you'reso welcome.
Thank you, bye, bye.
Hi and welcome to Intention with Shaman Isis.
I'm your host and today we aregoing to be talking about one of
my favorite topics how to spota narcissist.
And I have a special guest withme today, which makes me super
excited.
Jennifer, do you want tointroduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'd be happy to, and thank you so much for having me
on.
My name is Jennifer Passivant.
I am an intuitive spirituallife coach, energy healing
practitioner and channeler ofdivine beings, among other
litany of things.
That's kind of the meat andtaters of what I do.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I love it, I love your energy.
You just do absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Likewise, likewise.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I'll give you guys a little backdrop.
Jennifer and I are both on theWisdom App and we had a talk
yesterday that so many peopleresponded to.
They really did.
I could really sense the energy.
People loved our collectiveenergy and we talked about this
very topic and the energy was sogreat.
I thought, my goodness, why nothave an episode just about
(01:01):
narcissists and have Jennifer onto talk about it?
So thank you very much.
Are you ready to talk about thesigns of narcissism and share
some of your experience andperspective?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, I love this topic.
Yes, go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Awesome.
Okay, so the number one, we'lltalk.
We'll get the number one out ofthe way.
I think it's the one that mostpeople are actually very aware
of if they suspect that theymight be with a narcissist, and
that is a sense of superiorityand entitlement.
Do you want to give me yourtake on how someone can sense
that and someone that they'rewith?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely the first way, or at least to me
, the most prominent way wherethat superiority comes in is
they try to invalidate you ortry to point out maybe your
flaws in order to come off asbeing to convince you that you
are inferior, so that they canfeel and also can convince you
(01:53):
of their superiority.
That's kind of the main one.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Do you think that's one of the reasons why and I've
found this with the narcissistthat I've seen in my practice,
in my business and in mypersonal life that's one of the
reasons why they like detail?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh yes, they want to really get to know you and
codependence, like we weretalking about yesterday.
They present similarly but theyhave differences but they can
feel and present very similarly.
They all like to know specificsabout you so that they can use
them against you and they'lltwist them around and try to
make things something thatthey're not.
(02:29):
They'll put words in your mouthand all kinds of stuff just to
try to start to emotionallymanipulate you.
And if you're sensitive to that, if you're how should I say
this?
If you are an easy victim forthem because you care a lot
about how others perceive you orwhat they think of you, or you
want that validation, that'swhat they use to hook you
because they then make you crave.
(02:50):
They want to try to say this.
They put you in an intentionalposition to try to make you
convince them otherwise.
Does that make?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
sense.
No, that makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Victims will find themselves arguing with them,
trying to convince them thatthey're not the person that the
narcissist or codependent isaccusing them of being.
So they get kind of those inthis like circular argument
thing.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That's fascinating, you know.
I know, in my experience withthis, I found that the reason
why they have this sort ofsuperiority and entitlement
complex and it really surprisedme when this came to me
intuitively one day.
I just was like, oh my God,this is because they have no
self-confidence.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's their wound and it allcomes from how they were treated
as a child.
Usually there was a narcissist,that was a parent that made
them feel awful about themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, that's so interesting.
Do you have any more examplesof that sort of entitlement or
superiority that you might sensefrom someone in your life?
That's a narcissist.
A good sign.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think that's kind of the general meat and taters
of it only because that samesign can present in various ways
.
Just so long as people can.
How should I say this?
Be aware of when someone istalking very highly of
themselves but then in turnfinding flaws in you?
(04:20):
Red flag, yes.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yes.
Red flag, you know.
That brings me to the secondsign that I've seen.
This is one that really, reallystands out to me when I think
of memories of people that I'vehad to deal with from a work
situation or in a personal life,or with clients who are dealing
with someone in their life.
That's a narcissist.
Or as we were talking aboutyesterday if you're watching
(04:44):
this in work and business youmay have a client that's a
narcissist, which is a reallysticky situation.
If you work in any kind ofhealing practice and that is
intention-seeking and validationthat can be so exhausting.
If you're in a relationshipwith someone that exhausts you
all the time and they constantlyneed affirmation about their
(05:07):
specialness, that can be a realred flag that they're a
narcissist.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Absolutely, and codependents do exactly the same
thing.
And that's when you start toalso.
So not only so.
To back up a little bit, to me,the first sign you encounter
like if you're trying to figureout if someone new in your life
is a narcissist the first thingyou see is they start
hyper-complementing you to thepoint where it's sickeningly
sweet, right Like we weretalking about yesterday below
(05:33):
smoke, right up your rear endand to the end degree.
That is the first thing you'llsee, because that's how they
hook you, because they're hopingthat you are lacking that
validation as well and that howshould I say this that
validation, reinforcement to you.
Then you'll stick around formore.
(05:53):
And so once they've got youhooked and this person's
complimenting me where for meit's such a degree that it's
obviously fake and it makes mesick, but some people really
love that and they will use thatthen as a way to hook you.
That's the first sign.
Then later, after your hook,then you see the superiority and
(06:16):
the insults and stuff.
So to then catch up to where wejust were, we were talking
about.
Can you repeat the questionbecause I got a lot?
I just want to backtrack topoint out the smoke, because
that's an important one.
Oh, yes, the intention.
Yeah, thank you.
So, yeah, they will absolutelydo attention-sinking and
(06:39):
validation, and they put that inwith their superiority because
they want you to go.
How should I say this, asthey're talking about how
amazing they are?
They're looking for thevalidation oh, that's great, oh,
you're spectacular.
(07:00):
They're looking for you to tellwonderful things about what
they're already telling you,definitely seeking validation
and, at the same time, prove toyou which is really them, trying
to convince themselves thatthey are superior to you and you
are inferior.
(07:20):
So it's like a twofer.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I like to point that out.
If you're trying to figure outif you're with the narcissist,
that first sign is that somebodywho compliments you a lot.
Now I will say that I can alwaystell when someone has actually
escaped a narcissist, becausenot only am I from the South,
I'm an empath and I'm a flightperson and I've been taught,
when I meet people, to findsomething about them that I
(07:43):
genuinely find compliment,something that I can compliment
or tell them I think isinteresting or whatever.
And because I do that naturallywith people, I can see the
people who are still healingfrom a bad relationship, because
they're like why are youcomplimenting me?
And I'm like, oh breathe, Iactually genuinely meant that
(08:05):
because I won't tell somebodysomething.
First of all, they know, evenif they don't know it on the
surface, deep down they knowwhether somebody is genuine,
whether they're saying or not.
It really takes me backsometimes when I see that kind
of fear thing from people.
But that's because they've beenin that relationship with the
narcissist who puffs them up somuch in the beginning only to go
(08:25):
pop and get a little kick outof going pop Every time the
person starts to get just alittle too high.
I was in a really bad long-termrelationship with someone who
was a classic case of a very,very serious narcissist abusive
narcissist who loved everythingabout me, loved my career, loved
(08:46):
the fact that I could besuccessful in life, because they
wanted to use that for theirown storytelling purposes.
But the minute that theythought I might be getting too
high on myself or think that Imight actually be talented, the
more pain they were in in lifeor in a bad place, the more
vicious that behavior was.
(09:08):
Yes, and seeing it, I was likewhoa, how do you heal someone
with that?
And you know what you don't.
They heal themselves.
Exactly All the things they didis about narcissists.
There's a big trend going on,kind of like an understanding,
an reckoning in America inparticular, with the
narcissistic personality.
(09:28):
It's a top topic.
It's things people are talkingabout.
A lot of people are starting torecognize it.
They're seeing that it's acertain segment of the
population.
But I believe wholeheartedlythat narcissism is what's not
only not helped by our societyand our superficialness, but I
believe it is the duality of allhuman beings that we are all
capable of being an empath andof being a narcissist.
(09:51):
And people who are living inthe narcissistic personality are
living in the fear and the painand the impact is that opposite
end of the spectrum and to behealthy you really need to be
somewhere in between, in thelight and in self-love.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Agreed and I would.
I'm going to expand on what yousaid, because it's so perfect,
because they're in a weird sortof way they are both polar
opposites.
But the wounded empath isbecause there's a difference
between an like a healed empathand a wounded empath.
Right, yes, absolutely so.
Wounded empath is how shall Isay this?
(10:27):
They're almost shades of thesame thing because they both
have that same lack ofvalidation wound.
But where the narcissist isfeeling that wound by, how shall
I say?
Trying to coax it, trying tocoax that validation from others
while at the same time feelingpowerful by using emotional
(10:50):
manipulation and control to makesomeone feel less than that,
that, how shall I say this?
That degree of invalidation andpower and superiority is where
they get their jollies.
It's where they get that senseof validation and food.
Where the wounded empath, theirvictim, just wants to be loved
(11:12):
and seen and and wanted andwhatever, not to say the
narcissist doesn't.
But they go about it in atotally different way, in a
vampiric way.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Vampiric way, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And that's that's why they they always attract each
other, because they are shadesof the other.
It's just they provide howshould I say this a very
challenging opportunity forhealing and soul growth.
But it's probably one of themost challenging dynamics to be
in but off.
More often than not, thenarcissist is unable to see
(11:48):
themselves for what they are notfor what they are, but what
they're doing.
They're unwilling to admit thewound and how they're inflicting
it on others.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Oh, and I think a lot of them are having a ball.
Oh, yes, absolutely, they'reall doing it, because then they
get off on seeing their effecton other people.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yes, they're very heavily reinforced by their
behavior, which is why theythey're unwilling to look any
deeper.
They just keep doing it becauseit feels good.
Where is that wounded empath,the victim?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
It was a red flag line.
I read this history doesanybody ever send a sentence
that made you go before?
And it was, and this was in thelong-term relationship that I
had had.
That's what they said.
I don't want to go to atherapist because they're just
going to try to make everythingmy fault.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Someone doesn't want to take responsibility for his
or her, why?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I was like do you realize how obvious you just
made yourself?
I was like wow, really, really.
And that was the moment that Iknew there is no fix in this
situation.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
No, and that's why it's so common with narcissists,
and this is not as true withcodependence, but it's most
potential of narcissists.
They're always blaming otherpeople, their victims, anybody
else but them, and so that's areal sense of projection.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Oh, it really is.
No, that's really well said.
So that brings me to.
That's interesting that we'retalking about this, because it
brings me to the third time thatI see so often, in that we
touched on this yesterday, andthat is that one of the signs of
a narcissist is that they'reperfectionists and they're quite
proud of being perfectionistsbecause they don't actually
understand where perfectionismstems from.
(13:38):
My understanding from 35 yearsof dealing with narcissism is
that the perfectionism actuallystems from the fear of being
seen and is less than or notperfect, or the fear of being
seen as normal.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You bet, because one of their parents made them feel
less than and made them feelimperfect, and yet demanded
perfection, and so they got usedto striving for that, and that
just molded who they are, and sofor the listener, I want to
make it very clear that we'renot bashing narcissists here.
We recognize very completelythat these are very wounded
(14:19):
people.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
They're the most wounded today, willing to suck
the soul of another human being.
Actually, when you were sayingthat about the, where's the
vampiric attitude?
When you think about movies andbooks, about that whole
relationship, it is actuallyvery symbolic of a
narcissist-impact relationshipwhere the you know here, come,
(14:42):
take some you know, fulfill yoursoul and then go get another
victim.
It really is like that.
I completely lost my train ofthought, but that's OK, so let's
we'll touch on this reallyquick.
Yeah, what they were sayingnarcissists are victims, just
like anybody else that's wounded.
And I think the whole point inhaving a show where we talk
(15:03):
about the signs of a narcissistis, hey, if you're being abused
in this relationship and youneed to know why, why?
Because a lot of people can'tmake a decision to leave a
situation or change a situationor try to help that situation
unless they have a label tostick on it.
I get it we drink that way bythe medical community, by media.
So you know, those signs arevery helpful.
(15:27):
It's superiority andentitlement complex, like they
have, because they have no selfconfidence deep down, and you'll
know that if you've been withthem long enough.
They have attention seekingbehavior.
And three, they have aperfectionism which stems from
anybody finding out that they'renot actually perfect.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yes, absolutely, and I would add to that and this is
I'm speaking to those who arecurrently in relationships with
a narcissist I understand thethe very honorable intention to
try to heal them and to try toconvince them to see you in the
light that you would like to beseen, and to try to change them,
(16:11):
because you want to receive thelevel of validation that you
got at the beginning of therelationship.
And I'm here to tell you youcannot heal them and you cannot
convince them, and you cannotchange them, so if you are
unhappy in that relationship, ifyou were unhappy in that
situation, the best bet is toleave.
(16:31):
So, like I was saying earlier,we're not here bashing
narcissists.
We recognize that they arewounded.
We can have compassion for themas healers, especially, we can
acknowledge what their woundsand challenges are.
We don't have to hate them, wedon't have to see them as evil,
and we don't have to see them asthe enemy.
What we can do, though, is sethealthy boundaries, and that's
really what we're talking abouthere.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, that I think that's what we're saying is I
think we're giving people thesigns of really like how to have
a spot it, so that you can thenfigure out how to deal with it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's interesting because somebody a year ago,
when I first started down thisroad, started doing my podcast
and really tried to encourage meto talk about narcissism more
and I was really against it.
But I also didn't realize I wasstill settling in some aspects
of my new self.
They really wanted me to and Irealized recently it's because
(17:25):
I'm dealing with narcissists isgoing to be part of my practice
and it's something I would haveever.
I mean, if you'd asked me, evenfour months ago, I'd been like
no, no, no, no, I will not betaking on any narcissists.
No, but I will actually behelping narcissists.
I will be helping them helpthemselves.
Yeah, that's what we do.
(17:45):
But yes, so another one, andyou mentioned it in there.
Another sign about what aperson that you're with is a
narcissist is the control andmanipulation.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yes, this is.
I really like this part of thetopic, particularly the
manipulation and control,because it's all about not just
control of of behavior, becausethere is that in some
narcissistic relationships it'syou can't go out with your
friends, I'm going to controlyour finances, I'm going to
control who you see, I'm goingto control where you go.
So there is that.
But the meat and taters of itbegins with emotional
(18:20):
manipulation and control.
Where they want to control howyou feel, right?
Namely by they either blowsmoke up your butt to where
you're flying on high clouds offeeling like, oh my God, he
loves me and he thinks I'mbeautiful and he thinks I'm
amazing.
Well, the first thing you haveto look at is why aren't you
(18:41):
seeing yourself this way andfeeling that whole yourself?
Because that's the whole reasonyou're addicted, and it is
legitimately an emotional andpsychological addiction.
You're addicted to thatexternal validation and they
know it.
So that's your drug, their drugis controlling you emotionally,
(19:02):
right?
That's what they're addicted to.
Is that power and control overyou as the victim?
So that's the first thing youhave to ask yourself.
But then, when they startknocking you down, and then so
that you will crave thatvalidation and do whatever it is
they're telling you you need todo, just so you get that
(19:23):
validation back, because that'syour drug that you got to get
that.
That's how they're controllingyou.
So then you have to askyourself as the victim why in
the hell am I letting someoneelse control my behavior, my
thoughts, my feelings, myperceptions?
Be a sovereign being yes, youare and control.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's part of my whole.
I have a whole speech aboutAmerica and the fact that we're
really lost right now and thatwe have to restructure our
systems in this country.
And one of those things, youknow we have to create children
that have mind, body and soulharmony, that understand the
principles.
That's more important inphysics and math.
I don't care.
(20:08):
People who are attracted thatwill find a way to find it.
You know, let's turn outchildren that are whole, who
cares whether or not we cancompete with China about math
problems?
People are like what the youknow?
And people are like that's notwhat schools for.
Well, we're doing isn't working.
No, that's why.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I like the Waldorf school system.
I'm familiar with the schoolsystem from oh my God, look at,
look it up.
Rudolph Steiner started aschool called the Waldorf
schools and they teach all aboutthat.
So you get that, you get themath, you get the science, you
get the reading, but theyincorporate music and dance and
the learning.
They teach about spiritualityand cosmology.
(20:46):
They teach about bio by biodynamic farming, but it's all
done, love it Years.
And so at the same time,they're they're building whole,
whole emotional people, whereasin our schools it's very, it's
very rote learning very just.
Memorize these, these facts andthis air quotes history and
(21:09):
repeat it back and you're good,while at the same time go on
social media and either feellike utter crap because you're
being bullied or you're becomingnarcissistic with a super short
attention span because you'reflipping through frigging TikTok
.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Oh, yes, I have to tell you that's one of my
reasons.
The social media was botheringme because I was like our whole
society is not built.
You had said something earlierabout you, said something that
made me talk about the wholeschool system and the mind, body
, and so, oh, the self love.
We talk about self care a lot,but that whole ability to be a
(21:48):
sovereign being that's the wordyou use yes, see, a sovereign
being to have the self love andthe self esteem to be a self
fulfilling, self actualizedbeing that accepts that were not
perfect.
You know, I think I'm withinthe spiritual community.
There's this so like sort ofideal that people will get to
the place where they buy rightand disappear into a Himmary
(22:11):
rainbow.
But, but I mean we get close.
But in America we have torestructure the system so that
it helps produce people and thisis even within our health care
system for adults that have mind, body and mental, physical,
spiritual and emotional balance.
Yes, we do not address any ofthat.
(22:32):
It's one of the reasons why Iget a brilliant move.
The media gets on top of one ofthe school shootings because
that is all about this.
That is what is wrong with thiscountry.
Yeah, live in shallowness.
We live in immediategratification.
It started in the 80s.
It has progressively gottenworse.
When do you even start right?
All of this relates to the factthat we don't break the yoke
(22:54):
principles in this country.
And anyway, I could get on awhole.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Oh, I know I was going to say, oh, I could get on
transhumanism with this one,but I won't.
I know, yes, I'm thinking thatwill be a topic for another day.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I can see you and I are going to do more episodes
We've got.
I'm sorry, I'll just brag onthis for you.
We've got great chemistry girl.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
We're like sisters from as you can say we're
sisters from other misters.
I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I like that.
So, while we're yeah, we'regiving the signs for narcissists
, well, I have three in a rowthat are lack of and I'll just
say them all together, becausethey're kind of need each other
lack of responsibility, lack ofboundaries and lack of empathy.
(23:40):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Lack, lack, lack and and the lack of empathy, I think
, is the most important one, andparticularly for those who are
in a relationship with anarcissist, because there is
that desire to make them beempathetic when they simply
can't.
And I think the victims in therelationship and again, I'm not
(24:03):
trying to paint narcissists asevil people.
They are wounded people and,like it was said yesterday, no
one chooses to be a narcissist.
They're just showing you whattheir wounds are, but that
doesn't mean that their woundingis not harmful to others.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So that's what we're talking about is how they're
wounding is harmful to others.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But anyway, yeah, exactly, I think you're on the
narcissist.
Everybody, thank you, everybodyto some degree is narcissistic.
There's a difference betweenbeing narcissistic and having
narcissistic personalitydisorder Different things so
that's a really good point.
But when you are a victim of anarcissist, you tend to find
(24:45):
yourself trying to, like I wassaying earlier, convince them of
who you are, but then alsotrying to change them, to be
empathetic.
You try to like you don'tunderstand why they don't
operate the way you do, and soyou try to get them to operate
the way you do.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You won't, because they're we're also kind of
industry enforced.
It's somehow our behavior makesus right, yeah, and we have to
get the other person to behavelike us because that means that
they're behaving right.
It's like, well, not quite likethat.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well and it's also like they're not behaving
normally.
How can I get you to behavenormally and be empathetic the
way normal humans are?
You won't, because they're inthe cluster B.
So if any of you studiedpsychology, they're in the
cluster B grouping, which is atype of personality disorder,
and it's under the range of likesociology psychopathy.
(25:40):
There's what's the other one,histrionic borderline
personality disorder?
There's a bunch of them, butthey all lack empathy and they
all have a difficult timefeeling even their own feelings.
So here's you deeply feelingyour feelings, and you can't
understand why this person isnot feeling your feelings, let
(26:02):
alone their own.
That's why.
So you can't change that, sodon't try, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I think that's a really good point.
If you found yourself inconversations where you're
saying any of these things thatwe're saying that you're in a
relationship with the narcissist.
If you have found yourselfsaying why can't they treat me
well?
Why can't they respond normallyyes, they're probably sick.
(26:31):
And unless you want to continueto be in a relationship with
someone who's sick and you'restrong enough to continue to
manage it, then it might be timeto exit.
A lack of empathy, boundariesand responsibility I think lack
of empathy is kind of like Ithink that's where I put them
all together because when youhave no empathy, you lack
boundaries and responsibilityfor anything you do.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
You bet.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yes, and they'll find a way to make it your fault.
Anyway, I've found that in myown situations with the
narcissist is that I would findmyself trying to explain what it
they just didn't understand.
If I actually explained itdifferently, maybe if I tried
this tactic or that tactic andI'll find the words that will
(27:17):
actually make them go oh no, no,it doesn't work.
Stop trying to explain tosomebody who doesn't have any
empathy.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
No, and they do understand.
They're just not.
You know what I mean.
You just don't think theyunderstand.
So that's why.
But yeah, absolutely, they justlack empathy.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
We can either tell ourselves that they don't
understand because the attributeis so frightening.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yes, well, and most people assume they're
communicating with someone whois typical, you know, who is
empathetic and sympathetic andall of those things, and with
someone with that type ofpersonality disorder it's a
whole different ball of wax.
And so you have to until yourecognize how should I say this?
(28:04):
Until you recognize how they'reoperating, you're still gonna
assume you're communicating withsomeone who's mentally typical
you know?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
You will keep saying toyourself that I just have to try
another method or I'll sit downand have a conversation with
them, and it's like it's nevergonna work, because guess what?
What you don't wanna tellyourself.
They are fully aware that theyare hurting you, bingo.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And they're okay with that.
And that's their food.
No, they are okay with it.
That's their whole point.
They get high off of it.
They get high off of it.
That's their drug.
And, like I said earlier,that's their drug where your
drug is the kindness and thevalidation because you didn't
get it and that's your childhoodwound right, you didn't get
that as a yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I, in my situation, I got really frustrated because I
didn't understand.
I think that we touched on thisyesterday.
I kept hearing my stories ofmyself and he didn't even know
half the truths, which, thankGod, I didn't actually tell him
because he just told everybodyand imploded my whole life.
Wow, yeah, and when they'resupposed to.
I was just trying to figure outwhy I was ready, but what he
(29:11):
did know, he was constantlytelling other people I would be
talking to somebody that Ididn't even know and they go oh,
I know.
And I'm like why do you knowsuch personal information about
me?
And I thought it was because hewas admired me so much.
I was just so, I was so cute, Iwas so young, I was like, oh
(29:32):
gosh, he really thinks I'mamazing.
All that and a bag of chips.
He wants to tell everybody.
He was just and, intuitively,something in me was going.
Why does he keep sharing mystories with everybody?
Something off here and I.
But you want to believe whatyou want to believe.
You think people will evolve orchange and this isn't about
(29:54):
maturity.
It goes way beyond that.
It's about self-love and that'sthe thing you have to
understand and if you can havesympathy for somebody that you
almost want to hate which Ithink for a lot of people who
are listening to this if you'rein a relationship with a
narcissist, you either hate them, or you almost want to hate
them, or you love them too much,whatever the type of love that
is, and it's because you don'twant to accept that they
(30:18):
actually get off hurting you.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yes, and I think some of that denial comes also from.
There's a fear, then, of leavingthe relationship, because they
often are afraid and this is.
I work with a lot of victims ofnarcissists and co-dependents,
and many of them are afraid toleave the relationship, even
though they're miserable in it.
(30:41):
So they will make up everyexcuse under the sun to stay,
mostly because not only are theyafraid that they will lose the
tiny little nuggets ofvalidation that they've got into
the relationship for in thefirst place, they're just
waiting to get one of thoselittle nuggets of reinforcement
(31:02):
because they're afraid theywon't get it anywhere else.
They feel so badly aboutthemselves that they fear that
they won't be able to enter intoanother relationship, that they
won't find anybody else.
So it's easier for them to stayin that abusive misery than
face the fear of, in their minds, never finding anyone else who
(31:25):
will ever validate them.
But where they're not, whatthey're failing to see and this
is one of the things, and wejust touched on that a little
bit earlier what they're failingto see is that only they can
fill that hole.
If you keep looking to get thatvalidation hole filled outside
of you, you will always onlyever be disappointed because
(31:46):
you're placing thatresponsibility and that
expectation to heal you outsideof yourself and you just can't
do that.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Which brings us back to that whole.
If you're making excuses at allfor the person that you're with
, regardless of whether they'rea narcissist or not, then you
probably have a self-love issue,self-care issue, and until
you're capable of telling peopleand I was always very good at
saying, stop, get back.
But even I can be tricked by aworld-class narcissist.
(32:15):
For me.
I kept thinking that, and thiswas me thinking this, is that
what was wrong with me?
I kept thinking that I wassmart enough to fix it.
Yes, I can fix this.
I have fixed so many people onthe healer.
I can fix this.
I fix people all the time.
I fix them within minutes,sometimes by reading them,
(32:37):
feeling them and then givingthem what they need.
Do I need to put my hands on?
Do I need to?
What is it?
What magic can I work and youcan't fix that bottomless pit?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Nope it is.
It'll end up sucking you dry.
So if you're finding yourself,if you're exhausted in your
relationship, I think that'sthat you want to need to add to
the list Number 12,.
If you're exhausted in yourrelationship, you're most likely
to be dead If you have.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
if you find yourself having circular conversations
with them, you might be with anarcissist.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Oh, that's a good one .
I like that.
I gotta add that to the list.
You know what you're not gonnabe like writing a book, oh my.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
God, I know.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So, oh, this is an interesting one that I've added
to my list.
Over time, they see threatseverywhere, yep, which I did not
understand for the longest time.
You know that one really threwme off.
It was like I thought you werea badass you know, and I'm
talking about, I've been aroundenough narcissists in my career,
in my personal life, that Ifeel like a professional.
(33:41):
That's why I know that I'mgonna be helping people either
who are victims of narcissistsor who want to stop being a
narcissist.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yes, which is rare.
So when you do find them, it'slike wow, okay, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
One must be a magnet.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
a magnet Well for you , though, because most
narcissists don't even wannaadmit that they have a problem
or that they are wounded becausethey think so highly of
themselves, or at leastconsciously.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
they think highly of themselves because,
subconsciously, they hatethemselves, they hate themselves
yeah, exactly, they're insecureand they don't want to admit it
that there's a fear there ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yes, so it's amazing that you get narcissists that
want to change.
That's a freaking miracle asfar as I'm concerned.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I mean I say I'm going to oh, I thought you were
trying to figure out.
I'm like, hey, that's amazing.
Every night I have alwaysattracted narcissists, do not I?
I mean, I can go to a room with5,000 people and within an hour
I will find myself going.
Oh God, hi, one of you again.
How are you?
Is it blinking?
Yes, I'm a little bit nervousbecause the healer, that healer
(34:47):
vibe that I give off, that makesthem go.
Oh, you know, and I think thathappens with people who are
super impasse or psychic.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yes, I agree because I tend to get them, though I've
had a couple of a few clientsthat were narcissistic.
The majority of the time I getthe victims of narcissism or
codependency, but it's in mysocial media DMs that I get the
narcissists.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
That's interesting.
That makes a lot of senseactually that they just ignore
you.
I think it has a lot to do withthe fact that I've worked in
entertainment fashion most of mycareer and I've worked with a
lot of powerful people, so I'vebeen in rooms with people.
It's a matter of proximity.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Oh sure, sure.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
We like to light bulb .
Hi, Miss Keegan, you're rightover here.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
And what's funny too, is how should I say this?
Narcissists tend to think thatthey can manipulate anyone, that
they can find theirnarcissistic food and that's
what it's called as narcissisticfood that they can get their
addiction filled with just aboutanyone.
They usually try to use theopposite sex, though it's easier
(36:01):
for them to manipulate theopposite sex.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I think that life's a bit more.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
It agreed?
Absolutely they do.
And how should I say this?
I think because of thatassumption, they approach us
both, whether it's like you weresaying you walk into a room, or
for me it's in my social mediaDMs, because I don't really go
anywhere or do anythinginteresting, so I don't meet
(36:28):
these types of media.
But then I can tell within thefirst.
I mean it doesn't take long totell it's a narcissist.
At this point we're sowell-schooled when you've been
with narcissists as long as wehave, because my relationship
was six and a half years I don'tknow how long years was, but it
was.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
We've got this.
We've got this long time.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, we got this boo boo.
And so once you and this iswhere I want to also speak to
the victim once you learn towreck, see a narcissist for what
they are, you then start to andyou understand the different
types of manipulation tacticsthat they utilize, you can see
(37:11):
it for what they are.
And then that means that youthen know what they're trying to
get you to think, feel, believeabout either them or yourself,
yes, or if they want you to feelbadly about yourself but good
about them, whatever it is,you'll see what they're trying
to get you to feel, cause it'sall about controlling how you
(37:33):
feel and how you think, and allthat from the get go.
But then you can go ah, okay,he or she is trying to get me to
think or feel this way, allright, so then I can respond
this way, which will deflectthat or negate it.
So once you can recognize it,it'll.
It gives you a lot of controlover the situation, which they
(37:54):
don't like.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
The reality is something that I had to come to
the understanding of is thatonce you understand or realize
that someone is a narcissist,whether a client, a family
member, which is very difficultto deal with, you know, because
you have the right to cut familymembers out.
Yes, you do.
Yep, you have the right to cutanyone out of your life that is
(38:16):
sucking you dry.
Yes, oh, I completely lost mystrength.
I thought with that, oh, I hateit when I do that.
You know, when you're like oh,I see something, good, it's
juicy.
And then I was like bam, justlet me.
Oh, yeah, everything that comesout of their mouth is most
likely manipulated, correct.
That's what I found.
(38:37):
I found myself likeeverything's like okay, okay,
I'm dodging the bullets.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right, bob and weave.
Bob and weave, absolutely Boband weave.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Bob and weave, bob and weave.
So the next one is how theyfeel is all that matters?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Correct and we use the term feeling loosely.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's more about their ego.
You know how much something'saffecting their ego.
That's what they say they'refeeling.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
They're feeling ego.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yes, yeah, so I would encourage anybody.
If you're on the list of signsthey like to split, which is,
they are the good and you arethe bad, do you have any
examples of that kind of thingspotting?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
that kind of thing?
Oh, absolutely Particularlywhen you are how should I say
this?
When you're dating with anarcissist, then they have to
make you the bad guy and you'reat fault for whatever it is
they're experiencing that theydon't like.
Usually, it's because they'renot getting what they want from
(39:51):
you, and that pisses them off.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yes, so then you have to get real stupid shallow
things where.
I'm like are you reallybitching because the grocery
store was out of something?
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I think your wife, because the grocery store was
out of something and you'retelling it her for not taking
all eight kids in the car thatwas running out of gas to three
more stores to get you thatthing that you absolutely have
decided is so important.
You're gonna ruin your day andyour whole family's experience
over it.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, and it can't be their fault, and it can't even
be nobody's fault.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, that is really hard, I think, for a lot of
people who are.
If you're in, if you suspectyou're in a narcissist, your
relationship and you're sittingthere going, yeah, if it makes
no sense, because they're upsetabout something that makes no
sense and they wanna blamesomeone, even though it's a
blameless situation and there'sno one you can blame, which I
think is good at.
And we talk about the UnitedStates, but one of my big
(40:52):
problems is that our country isa narcissist.
We need a whole country andeverything is structured.
It's like a one-way narcissist.
Yeah, everybody in this countryis in a sick relationship and
the narcissist is in America.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Our shores.
Most other people are like.
You guys are a hot mess, yep asa country.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Ask any other country .
I can I add to that, though?
Or let me just or I guess Ijust wanna finish what I was
saying about.
You know, usually it's whenthey're in my DMs and they're
expecting me to either fall inover them and that agree to
enter into some sort ofemotional dependency on them,
because that's what they'relooking for.
They want someone who will beemotionally dependent on them
(41:36):
for validation.
And when they're not gettingthe control over me that they
want, that's when they turn uglyand that's when you're the bad
guy, you're the problem and youneed to feel guilty for it,
which also doesn't work, butthey try.
That's where they go next.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Yeah, and I think that's something that's worth
mentioning.
You brought something up.
I was just talking about thiswith a friend last night, trying
to explain it's hard for peopleto understand why people do
things in relationships.
But sometimes, if you do notunderstand that somebody's in a
relationship with a narcissist,you will not understand why they
chose certain things, becausethey had to choose them, so
oftentimes they go their ownneck.
(42:16):
So if you're looking to enter arelationship with a narcissist,
I'm not providing you with anexcuse here, because I know that
we'll all find lots of excusesto say an unhealthy relationship
, but you have to be wise.
I made the really stupidmistake of giving someone a
year's notice.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, but I was trying to be fair in a very
unusual situation and I thoughtby doing that, I was giving them
the excuse to go out and getvalidation elsewhere.
Yes, and then let us handlethings like adults.
I was trying to be reasonable.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
That's you being a normal person.
Is what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, I was being what I thought was normal and
instead that was an invitationto incinerate my whole life.
Yeah, I mean, just came afterme to the nail what got to
everyone who had ever known meand why do I have this
experience for my lifetime ofpeople wanting to be in my life,
(43:19):
who want to make shit up about?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
me why.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Why?
Why does that happen?
So if you're ever curious aboutme, please ask me.
Because I have a history ofpeople making shit up about me
because they're mad at me fornot wanting to be in a
relationship with them and I'mtalking about everything from
family to well, I think a lot ofus have that and we don't
understand, like why is someonetrying?
to unplug my whole world, but Igave that opportunity by being
(43:44):
honest and thinking that theywere a normal person.
So my advice to people is, ifyou're realizing this and if
this is just confirming what youalready know you want, to make
sure that you do that.
You speak your truth, you standstrong and you do this.
If you're exiting or decidingto exit, do it in a really smart
way that protects your finances, that protects your reputation
as best you can.
(44:05):
But I'll just say for my ownpersonal advice decades of
experience seeing nurses justhelping people get over it and
so on, it's not worth your heartand soul being sucked dry.
No, it's not Even if theyimplode your.
You know it's not worth itbecause the people in your world
are going to judge you overthings they don't know and
(44:25):
believe someone, not the personthemselves.
They're not worth having inyour life anyway.
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Can I add to that?
Wait, can I add to that just alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
And with regard to and this is speaking to the
victim not only prepare yourfinances, because absa
frequently, you have to be ableto find a way to be in all ways
independent and uncontrollable,but then that also includes
emotionally, because you thenhave to really look at your
addiction to their validation.
(45:00):
Because until you are how shouldI say this emotionally
sovereign enough to where youcan give that validation to
yourself, where you understandthat you determine your own
worth and your own value, you dothat.
You have a choice to give thatpower away to others, but that's
(45:20):
not an obligation.
You can fill that hole and thatwound yourself.
You decide that you have valuebecause you're gonna exist,
right.
That's all it takes to havevalue, right.
So when you can learn to let goof the addiction to the
validation because that's reallythe hardest thing to let go of,
is that addiction to thevalidation you have to then be
(45:46):
ready to cut them out entirely.
You have to pick a time, pick aday and get out and block them
in every way you can, becausethey will come after you.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Oh yes, and be prepared, they will most likely
turn to.
They'll either already havesomething lined up, which is
very typical of a narcissist, orthey will turn to someone very
quickly to hurt you, becausethat's how they get off then,
how they make themselves feelbetter.
You wanna leave as safely aspossible and know that you have
(46:20):
to be independent andself-functioning.
I love that.
That's wonderful advice and sowell said.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
So let's run through the list really quick and let me
know if you have any morethoughts on any of these,
because, honestly, I think thisis such a fantastic effort,
though we're gonna need to breakthis up into a couple of
segments.
I think we're gonna get somegood feedback on this.
So the list of signs that youcan look for if you're in a
relationship or if you'reactually.
You know what I'm gonna tellyou not just the people who
(46:48):
might be in a relationship witha narcissist, but if you suspect
that there's something wrongwith you and deep down you're
unhappy, but you may be on thesurface look like everything's
all a bag of chips, but you knowyou might need change in your
life and you're suspect thatyou're a narcissist.
This is a list for you becauseyou know what.
We're all human.
We all have psychologicalissues.
We all have growth that needsto happen.
(47:11):
Self-love is important, nomatter what whether you're on
which end of the relationshipyou are.
So if any of these soundfamiliar, you might wanna seek a
life coach or someone to helpyou deal with the fact that you
might be a narcissist or thefact that you're in a
relationship with a narcissistand that you can live a happy
life and being self-fulfilledand independent, sovereign being
(47:34):
is everything.
You can handle anything in lifeif you love yourself.
So the signs that we'vereviewed today are and, jennifer
, please hop in here if you haveany new thoughts on this
superiority and entitlement,which stems from not having any
confidence deep down, which isvery hard to spot in the
beginning.
Number two is attention-seekingbehavior, validation-seeking,
(47:59):
which is one of the reasons whyyour partner this is what I see
consistently with narcissists isthey happen to have, they need
to have a lot of men or women orI hate to make it about sex, it
doesn't really matter, which issomething I had to realize
growing up.
I'm like why doesn't it matterif it's a man or a woman, it's
just attention.
No matter what Absolutelyattention-seeking behavior,
(48:23):
they'll seek it from anybody.
Number three on the list is thatperfectionism that stems from,
not from being so afraid.
It's being seen as being flawed, because deep down, they
believe they're truly flawed,that they have to do everything
perfectly and they have tomanage you and your life because
you're an extension andreflection of their life.
(48:43):
Yeah, so that perfectionismrolls over to your children, to
you as the partner, to their jobto everything.
They try to control thelanguage, the description of
your life and what everybodythinks around them.
Absolutely Number four control,manipulation.
Like I was just saying, theytry to control and manipulate
everything around them tobecause what other people think
(49:06):
is very, very important.
It's important to all of us,but it's really really overly
important to a narcissist or toyou.
If you're a narcissist, lacks.
They have a lack ofresponsibility, a lack of
boundaries.
So if you're in a relationshipwith somebody and you're like
why do?
they not keep trying to explainthis to them?
Why do they not understand whyI don't want them calling my
(49:26):
friends and trying to getpersonal information about me?
They keep saying and trying tohelp me they have no boundaries.
Because they don't want to haveboundaries, because finding out
about you is how theymanipulate you.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
And a lack of empathy , which I think is what we're
talking about narcissism,empathy or the two sides of the
human psyche, I think inextremes, our ego, and extremes
are-.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
And our wounds and extremes.
They're like the opposite ofthe exact same wound.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I love that, I do, I love that, yeah, they see
threats everywhere.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
There's constantly a potential threat to their,
whatever it is.
How they feel is everything andthat's just wording, because
most people who are narcissisticdon't have necessarily real
feelings like you would actuallysee them.
And if you suspect that yourfeelings aren't actually really
feelings because they're toosuperficial, then you might
(50:25):
actually be a narcissist andmight need to seek help.
Splitting they're good andother people are bad.
Every story they tell they'rethe hero of which is actually
true, and then a fear ofrejection or ridicule, which
actually we didn't live with.
That one was left off the list.
(50:46):
Fear of rejection or ridicule.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Oh, absolutely, yes, and I would also add a fear of
well, this is more with thecodependent, but a fear of
abandonment and a fear of younot needing them.
But, yes, absolutely a fear ofrejection or ridicule and it's
oh God, it's so deeply rootedand that's why they again, they
(51:11):
have to look and feel and makeyou look and feel well.
Publicly you have to look andpresent as perfection, but
behind closed doors they'retearing you down every which way
because of your imperfections.
They use your wounds and yourflaws, which everybody has, but
(51:33):
they use that to emotionallymanipulate you.
But then, when you're out inpublic, y'all better be in a
happy, fricking family, orwhatever the situation is.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yeah, and they're very concerned with what other
people think in that regard.
That's why they have everyonelook a certain way, talk a
certain way, like they'remanaging everything.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yes, exactly, it's very much about how they present
and how other people perceivethem, including their partners
and their children.
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
That's actually, yeah , that's so true.
So that is.
I love this information, ifyour assistance suggestions,
before we go and close out ouramazing episode on signs of a
narcissist, what are somerecommendations that you would
make for somebody who and we'llappeal to both, because I think
(52:26):
you pointed out something that'svery important it's very easy
to bash and that's going oneverywhere, right Like bashing
narcissists, and I don't thinkthat's going to help anybody.
So you know, if you're anarcissist or if you're in a
relationship with a narcissistand you're realizing it having
listened to this episode, hereare some options for you and how
(52:47):
to move forward.
Yep, do you have anysuggestions for that?
Speaker 2 (52:52):
I do, and I appreciate you reiterating that.
This is not about bashingpeople who have either severe
narcissistic tendencies or havenarcissistic personhood disorder
, many of whom go undiagnosed,but it's definitely about
recognizing them so that you canput up healthy boundaries.
(53:14):
So that's really why we'rehaving this conversation.
So I know we discussed earlierhaving financial control and
making sure that you're notallowing them to have control
over aspects of your life thatwere something to go south, you
can't get out.
So be very mindful of that andfind ways to regain that if
(53:35):
you've lost it, even if thatmeans like you have to open a
joint account with anotherfamily member and start
scrolling money away withanother family member that's in
their account or whatever it is.
But just definitely find waysto be in control of your
finances and your livingsituation, and I would also then
(53:57):
recommend learning ways to howshould I say this?
Learn all the differentmanipulation techniques so that
you can see it when it happens.
You can go ah, that'sgaslighting, Ah, that's, you
know whatever it is, and thenlearn how to deflect it or
negate it, because then theydon't have power over you,
because most of the time you getthe victim gets so into their
(54:21):
emotional triggers becausethey're now invalidated and they
feel hurt and they're trying tothen, yeah, but blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah and theytry to convince the narcissist
that they're not who they'rebeing told that they are.
They get so into their triggerthat then they're just digging
themselves in the hole becausethey're you're doing exactly
what the narcissist wants you todo.
(54:42):
They want you to feel like shitand they want you to try to
convince them otherwise, so thatthey can then turn around and
convince you how wrong you are.
So when you can see it for whatit is and you know how to
negate it, you don't get intothat cyclical conversation of
trying to get them to changetheir minds.
You just deflect it and negateit, and half the time it's about
(55:04):
calling it for what it is like.
Oh, you're trying to gaslight me.
I get it.
Go ahead, give it a shot.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
You know what I'm going to add to the list.
Do they like to gaslight?
Because they are narcissistsare world class.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
They're pro gaslighters and not to say
that's.
That's probably their topmanipulation tactic, but it's by
no means the only.
So I really recommend peoplelearn the different types of
manipulation tactics and you'llread through the descriptions
and go, oh, holy cow, wow, I'veseen all of these.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Oh, I think you just hit on the next episode that you
and I are going to do together,the manipulation tactics.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yes, okay, I think that's okay.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
I love that idea.
I think it works.
This was I just feel this isgoing to be helpful.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I can, I hope so, I really hope so.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
But, yes, more of your amazing suggestions for
what to do.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I'm aside, honestly aside from.
I mean, I think we touched on alot of the learning learning
the manipulation techniques andthen how to negate them, to
disempower them, but also tohave the financial control, but
then also the emotional control,because they keep you around by
controlling how you feel.
So you have to really learn torecognize that, as you said,
(56:20):
everything they say essentiallyis a way to control how you
think, feel and perceive andbelieve about either you or them
.
So when you recognize that itallows you to keep yourself in
check and become very self-awareof when you are allowing them
to control how you feel aboutyourself and when you can go ooh
, he just said that and I tookit immediately.
(56:43):
Personally, I felt awful aboutit, but that's me giving my
power away.
I just gave him that control.
So I'm going to take that.
I'm not going to let thathappen.
I recognize that that's anintentional behavior on his part
or her part, of whoever it is.
You're dealing with myexperience as a female.
I'm thinking back to my ownexperience.
But once you're very self-awareof that, then you can regain
(57:07):
control and make your own choice, because we all believe it or
not.
We all choose how we think,feel, believe, perceive all of
that.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
Yes, we create our own reality Exactly, and every
thought you have, every word yousay, everything you allow to
pass, everything you put up with, speaks to how you believe
about yourself, which speaks toyour reality.
You create your reality Really,do you?
Guys are so powerful, and Ithink that's one of my and I
know they beat up America a bit,but one of my frustrations for
(57:41):
the powers that they've takenaway by the way we've structured
all of our systems is we'vebeen giving everybody into
standing in line because we wanteveryone to behave the same,
because that's how we controleverybody.
In fact, we're incrediblypowerful beings and we are
capable of creating our ownreality on levels that would
(58:01):
blow our minds 20 years ago, andpeople are finally coming awake
to that, and I think that's anamazing thing.
I think a lot of people arecoming awake to this kind of
thing and about being unhappyand choosing to take control of
their life, so I think a lot ofpeople who are choosing to
listen to this episode are up tobe congratulated, because this
(58:22):
is their assignment You'retrying to take control and
change your life so that you canbe happier.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Absolutely, because you either and for those of you
going, I don't control whensomeone hurts my feelings.
I don't control how I feelabout that.
You do.
But let me be clear there's adifference between a conscious
choice and an unconscious choice.
So you can either be veryself-aware and consciously
choose your response, or you canoperate from your triggered,
(58:54):
subconscious, wounded mind andreact, which means you're
operating out of an old woundthat you've had forever.
It's still a choice, though itmay be an unconscious one.
So the thing is to learn tothen, even if you've already
operated from the unconsciousone, if, once you become
(59:15):
self-aware of it, you can make anew choice.
Speaker 1 (59:18):
Yeah, you can stop something midstream, you don't
have to finish off theconversation from that old Stop
and go.
No, wait, wait, you know what.
We're not going to do this.
I'm not going to behave thisway because no one has the power
to make you feel the way thatyou feel.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
Exactly, unless you allow it, and this is so slight
tangent, but not really so.
When I help people who workwith negative and lower energies
and entities as an energyhealer, one of the prayers that
I teach them is I'm an allpowerful being of divine white
(59:54):
light.
No one and nothing has powerover me, save that which I allow
.
You have no power over me.
I'm a sovereign being of God,and so it's acknowledging that
if you're allowing someone tocontrol you emotionally, it's a
choice you've made.
Consciously or unconsciouslyit's a choice you've made.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
So you can make a new choice.
Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
So so, wow, this has been such a juicy, juicy episode
.
I'm going to have to break it.
It's going to be you guys.
It's going to be like two parts.
So if you didn't hear the firstpart or what up, check, check
my listings and you'll see howmany parts this is.
We've been talking about thesigns of a narcissist and have
had such a blast to never.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
thank you, no, thank you, I love talking with you.
I think we could come up with awhole litany of topics.
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I can never see this is going to take down a life of
its own.
Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
The energy is just incredible in.
You know, life is so short andI really believe that when you
something feels right, you justdo it, you just go.
We're going to have a ball andyou guys are going to totally
benefit.
So you'll hear more about thatlater.
Please check the listings forpart one or part two or part
three I'm not sure how manyparts it's going to be, but
(01:01:14):
you'll see it in the listings.
And, jennifer, thank you somuch.
Have a gorgeous, gorgeous week.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, and justonce again, if anybody wants to
learn more about me, they can goto my website, which is
wwwangelenergyhealingnet, andfrom there they can also access
my social media accounts ifthey're interested in following
me there.
But it's a littleself-promotion.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yeah, no, I'm definitely going to include your
social media here as well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
And you guys, please, please, like, share and comment
on this episode.
We're growing the show.
Our goal is to teachconsciousness and spirituality
healing to as many people aspossible, so please support our
efforts with your own socialmedia platforms.
And check out other episodes ofintention with Shaman Isis by
(01:02:04):
visiting YouTube, spotify,buzzsprout and Apple podcasts.
You'll find it listed in all ofthe major podcast places and
you can please visit my website,shamanisiscom.
I help people heal upon theirlife purpose and get into mind
body and soul harmony, and youcan learn more about that at
shamanisiscom.
Anyway, have a beautiful dayand, jennifer, I'll speak to you
(01:02:26):
soon, absolutely.
Thank you again so much, you'reso welcome.
Thank you, bye, bye.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.